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View Full Version : Orlando now the deepest team in the NBA? Favs to win it all?



Raph12
07-21-2009, 12:42 AM
With the soon-to-be signing of Jeremy Richardson, Matt Barnes and CJ Watson, while still searching for another big, is Orlando the deepest team in the NBA?

PG - Jameer Nelson, CJ Watson, Anthony Johnson
SG - Vince Carter, Mikhael Pietrus, JJ Redick
SF - Rashard Lewis, Matt Barnes, Jeremy Richardson
PF - Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson, ?
C - Dwight Howard, Marcin Gortat

With 4 of the 5 starters current/former allstars and solid role players off the bench, is Orlando also the favorites to win next season?

userfoundnot
07-21-2009, 12:45 AM
I would say so if they have strong chemistry, don't get any injury problems.
They are stacked at nearly every position, especially SG and C.

*Superman*
07-21-2009, 12:51 AM
I hope so, lets just officially sign Barnes and Watson and we will see. A S&T may be in place to get Watson, hoping JJ leaves!

LeonPoweIsBeast
07-21-2009, 12:53 AM
No, Not even close. Celtics or Lakers.

zambo4president
07-21-2009, 12:53 AM
I hope so, lets just officially sign Barnes and Watson and we will see. A S&T may be in place to get Watson, hoping JJ leaves!

You dont like JJ?

zadora5
07-21-2009, 12:55 AM
^ im a heat fan but a hater indeed good improvements orlando

fairandbalanced
07-21-2009, 12:55 AM
I don't see how Vice Carter puts them over the hump.

Raph12
07-21-2009, 12:57 AM
I hope so, lets just officially sign Barnes and Watson and we will see. A S&T may be in place to get Watson, hoping JJ leaves!

Want to get rid of JJ quick huh Superman? lol I agree on the idea of a s&t but as soon as CJ signs the offer sheet it won't happen, Magic or Warriors will have to wait until Dec 15th to trade CJ. Just like the Gortat sitch, had he not signed the Mavs offer sheet we could have done a s&t with Houston or Dallas and got someone back in return, but as soon as CJ inks that offer sheet either Orlando will get him or GS will, plain and simple

SB75
07-21-2009, 01:00 AM
I wouldn't go that far with it. The top four teams in the East have all improved this off-season. I liked the matching of Gortrat and the signing of Bass, But be were of Vince Carter. He doesn't fit the offense as well as Turk. He's a better player he just doesn't fit as well. Your Magic have also become a more traditional team moving Lewis to small forward, They won't have some of the miss matches they had last season. I'll be interested to see how that works out.

*Superman*
07-21-2009, 01:02 AM
You dont like JJ?


Want to get rid of JJ quick huh Superman? lol I agree on the idea of a s&t but as soon as CJ signs the offer sheet it won't happen, Magic or Warriors will have to wait until Dec 15th to trade CJ. Just like the Gortat sitch, had he not signed the Mavs offer sheet we could have done a s&t with Houston or Dallas and got someone back in return, but as soon as CJ inks that offer sheet either Orlando will get him or GS will, plain and simple

Hell yeah, no need for him anymore if we sign Barnes, JJ can't play NBA basketball. Everytime he is on the court he always looks like he is nervous. This season he has looked better though, he gets some nice passes. I rather have Watson then him though...anyday.

Raph12
07-21-2009, 01:03 AM
No, Not even close. Celtics or Lakers.

Funny how your name is Leon Powe is Beast and your Celtics left him out there for the vultures to end his pathetic NBA career. Leon Powe being a beast is "not even close", the mid-30s core of the Celtics team will bring that squad down, whether it happens by injury or just wear-and-tear, that team wont make it past the ECFs. Btw that's a Dwight Howard guarantee not a Mo William's guarantee.

After a Game 5 loss:
Dwight - I guarentee we'll win this series
Reporter - Did you know the Celts are 32-0 after being up 3-2
Dwight - Well I guess we'll just have to make them 32-1

Final Result? 32 and 1 BABY! 32-1

*Superman*
07-21-2009, 01:04 AM
I don't get why people don't think VC is an upgrade over Turk.

You all will see, VC gets the chance to play for a REAL contender, he is gonna show up.

ko8e24
07-21-2009, 01:07 AM
they are the deepest team, but the best team is still that one on the West coast with a deadly snake slithering over and protecting that Larry O'Brien Trophy (with candyman or no candyman). u try to even look at that trophy, and he'll strike! :D

Raph12
07-21-2009, 01:07 AM
Hell yeah, no need for him anymore if we sign Barnes, JJ can't play NBA basketball. Everytime he is on the court he always looks like he is nervous. This season he has looked better though, he gets some nice passes. I rather have Watson then him though...anyday.

Lmao, your right he just isn't an NBA player, best college shooter of all-time probably but not in the top 5000 players of all-time in the NBA. But he'll be pushed to 3rd string if he stays anyway, so why not hold him if you can. I agree a s&t with JJ would be nice, but does GS want him? and more importantly has CJ signed the offer sheet yet?

bogdanrom
07-21-2009, 01:08 AM
That's a prety sick team. But I wonder how will the new players adjust to the new team, new coach and new system. They have only two returning starters from the playoffs, Dwight and Lewis. How will Nelson bounce back after the injury. How hard will Vince try? They're some questions about this team, but I think they can easily be the top team in the East.

ko8e24
07-21-2009, 01:09 AM
I don't get why people don't think VC is an upgrade over Turk.

You all will see, VC gets the chance to play for a REAL contender, he is gonna show up.


tho vince is a all around better scorer, hedo was a more efficient scorer, better passer, better playmaker, and better shooter. vince has a tendency to jack up 20 ft jumpers like no other, and has lost a lot of his slashing ability, altho he still has that occasional out of the world dunks

Raph12
07-21-2009, 01:10 AM
they are the deepest team, but the best team is still that one on the West coast with a deadly snake slithering over and protecting that Larry O'Brien Trophy (with candyman or no candyman). u try to even look at that trophy, and he'll strike! :D

I'm a Magic fan through-and-through but I have mad respect for Kobe, he is still the best player in the league in my book. But the question is if they're the favs to win, not who do you think will win. But in regards to Kobe's individual ability, beware of the future for after the poisonous snake retires, DURANTULA may be guarding the scoring titles from there on out lol

Raph12
07-21-2009, 01:15 AM
tho vince is a all around better scorer, hedo was a more efficient scorer, better passer, better playmaker, and better shooter. vince has a tendency to jack up 20 ft jumpers like no other, and has lost a lot of his slashing ability, altho he still has that occasional out of the world dunks

No way is Hedo a more efficient scorer, he is worse in every aspect of scoring, lower fieldgoal, 3pt and freethrow shooting. Not to mention he has a lower assist-to-turnover ratio, near the same amount of assists (VC 4.7 to Turk 4.9) while handling the ball WAY more than Vince does. Better playmaker yeah, I'll give him that, Carter's assists usually come from a drive-and-dish, Turk's mostly come from pick-and-rolls. But the tendency to jack up 20 ft jumpers are on both guys, Carter just makes more. Yeah he lost some of his slashing ability, but who over 32 hasn't? and btw Turk has NO slashing ability lol so it's still a plus in that category

*Superman*
07-21-2009, 01:19 AM
tho vince is a all around better scorer, hedo was a more efficient scorer, better passer, better playmaker, and better shooter. vince has a tendency to jack up 20 ft jumpers like no other, and has lost a lot of his slashing ability, altho he still has that occasional out of the world dunks

Hedo was tooo inconsistent. 20pts one game, 8pts the next. VC averages about the same assits, VC is a better ball handler, and VC shot better % last season then Hedo, so i don't see what your trying to say. And Hedo doesn't jack up jumpers all day either? At least VC can attack strong to the rim.

ko8e24
07-21-2009, 01:20 AM
I'm a Magic fan through-and-through but I have mad respect for Kobe, he is still the best player in the league in my book. But the question is if they're the favs to win, not who do you think will win. But in regards to Kobe's individual ability, beware of the future for after the poisonous snake retires, DURANTULA may be guarding the scoring titles from there on out lol

DUDE, THAT IS AWESOME!, could I refer to him by that nickname in the future on PSD?? Of course, that credit will go to u

It makes total sense, his last name, and he has long freakish arms (like tarantulas have 8 legs). Creative mind bro :clap:

*Superman*
07-21-2009, 01:20 AM
No way is Hedo a more efficient scorer, he is worse in every aspect of scoring, lower fieldgoal, 3pt and freethrow shooting. Not to mention he has a lower assist-to-turnover ratio, near the same amount of assists (VC 4.7 to Turk 4.9) while handling the ball WAY more than Vince does. Better playmaker yeah, I'll give him that, Carter's assists usually come from a drive-and-dish, Turk's mostly come from pick-and-rolls. But the tendency to jack up 20 ft jumpers are on both guys, Carter just makes more. Yeah he lost some of his slashing ability, but who over 32 hasn't? and btw Turk has NO slashing ability lol so it's still a plus in that category

Didn't see your post, lol, we basically have the same thing.

*Superman*
07-21-2009, 01:21 AM
DUDE, THAT IS AWESOME!, could I refer to him by that nickname in the future on PSD??

It makes total sense, his last name, and he has long freakish arms (like tarantulas have 8 legs). Creative mind bro :clap:

Wow, he didn't make up that nickname lol.

ko8e24
07-21-2009, 01:23 AM
Hedo was tooo inconsistent. 20pts one game, 8pts the next. VC averages about the same assits, VC is a better ball handler, and VC shot better % last season then Hedo, so i don't see what your trying to say. And Hedo doesn't jack up jumpers all day either? At least VC can attack strong to the rim.


well, i guezz u magic fans kno better. i only saw a few regular season games of the magic, the ECF and the NBA finals against the Lakers. So i trust ur guyz' judgment

ko8e24
07-21-2009, 01:23 AM
Wow, he didn't make up that nickname lol.

wow, im lame then, lol, i didn't durant already had that nickname, my bad :o

*Superman*
07-21-2009, 01:26 AM
wow, im lame then, lol, i didn't durant already had that nickname, my bad :o

LOL your just late, its all good.:)

static_inferno
07-21-2009, 01:27 AM
they are better but so are the Cavs and Celts. then if they get passed one or both of those teams in the playoffs i don't think they can win a 7 game series with the Lakers or the Spurs.

Raph12
07-21-2009, 01:27 AM
Wow, he didn't make up that nickname lol.

Shhhhh quiet Superman I`m getting credit for this lol, no I`m kidding ko8e24 I wish I thought of the name, KD said that`s what people are calling him nowadays. IMO it fits him perfectly, not to mention this guy has TREMENDOUS potential, I mean 25+ ppg shooting over 40% from 3 and 87% from the charity stripe in his second year, I mean cmon is this guy on pace for like 3 or 4 scoring titles or what

ko8e24
07-21-2009, 01:31 AM
Shhhhh quiet Superman I`m getting credit for this lol, no I`m kidding ko8e24 I wish I thought of the name, KD said that`s what people are calling him nowadays. IMO it fits him perfectly, not to mention this guy has TREMENDOUS potential, I mean 25+ ppg shooting over 40% from 3 and 87% from the charity stripe in his second year, I mean cmon is this guy on pace for like 3 or 4 scoring titles or what


lol, hahaah :clap:

*Superman*
07-21-2009, 01:32 AM
Shhhhh quiet Superman I`m getting credit for this lol, no I`m kidding ko8e24 I wish I thought of the name, KD said that`s what people are calling him nowadays. IMO it fits him perfectly, not to mention this guy has TREMENDOUS potential, I mean 25+ ppg shooting over 40% from 3 and 87% from the charity stripe in his second year, I mean cmon is this guy on pace for like 3 or 4 scoring titles or what

How did i know you were going to say that lol.

But i agree, the nickname is really creative, and Durant is a beast.

Corey
07-21-2009, 01:56 AM
They have potential to be great, with all the star power. To me though, it comes down to this.

Vince Carter for Hedo Turkoglu
Matt Barnes for Courtney Lee
Brandon Bass for Tony Battie
Watson for Rafer Alston

And added Anderson.

It's definitely an upgraded team, but is it really as upgraded as some people are saying? It will come down to chemistry, and Dwight's offensive development, in my opinion.

Raph12
07-21-2009, 02:03 AM
They have potential to be great, with all the star power. To me though, it comes down to this.

Vince Carter for Hedo Turkoglu
Matt Barnes for Courtney Lee
Brandon Bass for Tony Battie
Watson for Rafer Alston

And added Anderson.

It's definitely an upgraded team, but is it really as upgraded as some people are saying? It will come down to chemistry, and Dwight's offensive development, in my opinion.

Exactly, they got the potential, now it's up to them and their coach to "write their own destiny" btw Dwight is 23 if he gets better and better offensively there is no stopping this guy

evadatam5150
07-21-2009, 02:08 AM
With the soon-to-be signing of Jeremy Richardson, Matt Barnes and CJ Watson, while still searching for another big, is Orlando the deepest team in the NBA?

PG - Jameer Nelson, CJ Watson, Anthony Johnson
SG - Vince Carter, Mikhael Pietrus, JJ Redick
SF - Rashard Lewis, Matt Barnes, Jeremy Richardson
PF - Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson, ?
C - Dwight Howard, Marcin Gortat

With 4 of the 5 starters current/former allstars and solid role players off the bench, is Orlando also the favorites to win next season?

Nope.. I don't know that they're a better team.. Barnes certainly helps but I'm still not convinced on Carter, does he still have enough left in the tank..?? i think they're the deepest team in the East, but not in the league..

Raph12
07-21-2009, 02:13 AM
Nope.. I don't know that they're a better team.. Barnes certainly helps but I'm still not convinced on Carter, does he still have enough left in the tank..?? i think they're the deepest team in the East, but not in the league..

If you don't mind me asking which team is deeper than theirs, keep in mind Odom is not on the LA roster atm

Chronz
07-21-2009, 02:41 AM
I don't see how Vice Carter puts them over the hump.

Why not?

Chronz
07-21-2009, 02:42 AM
tho vince is a all around better scorer, hedo was a more efficient scorer, better passer, better playmaker, and better shooter. vince has a tendency to jack up 20 ft jumpers like no other, and has lost a lot of his slashing ability, altho he still has that occasional out of the world dunks

Hedo was not more efficient, with either his passing or his scoring, so hes not a better playmaker, and the shots VC takes from the perimeter are more likely to go in than Hedo.

BUCSFORLIFE123
07-21-2009, 02:58 AM
when i started seeing them signing key role players , maan they have a REALLY solid team with depth. hopefully they have the chemistry and minutes to play them all

#1Mavericksfan
07-21-2009, 03:12 AM
Just the other day people where ready to crown the Spurs as champs now all of a sudden the Magic get Matt "Journey Men" Barnes and now there the champs?....

bosh_dwill
07-21-2009, 03:14 AM
I wouldn't go that far with it. The top four teams in the East have all improved this off-season. I liked the matching of Gortrat and the signing of Bass, But be were of Vince Carter. He doesn't fit the offense as well as Turk. He's a better player he just doesn't fit as well. Your Magic have also become a more traditional team moving Lewis to small forward, They won't have some of the miss matches they had last season. I'll be interested to see how that works out.

rashard lewis is 6'10 so i think hes still a match up problem at the 3 so i dk what your talkign about

Joshtd1
07-21-2009, 03:18 AM
Watson and Barnes make them the deepest team in the NBA? Not sure about that

Giants-49ers-Ws
07-21-2009, 03:19 AM
no way..hedo was a HUGE loss

Derick713
07-21-2009, 03:25 AM
The Magic were lucky to get out of the East last year. They would've have lost to the Pistons in the first round if they had faced them. They would have lost to the Celtics if they had Garnett. The Sixers gave the Magic a run for their money.

The Magic made moves to ensure themselves a better chance at a title. Vince Carter is more of a threat than Lee while Bass allows Lewis to move back to SF. Barnes, Pietrus, Anderson, and Gortat give the Magic greater depth.

We'll see how important Turkoglu was to the Magic soon enough. They are deeper than they were when they had Turkoglu.

Jameer Lelson/Anthony Johnson/CJ Watson
Vince Carter/Mickael Pietrus/JJ Reddick
Rashard Lewis/Matt Barnes/
Brandon Bass/Ryan Anderson/
Dwight Howard/Marcin Gortat/

x_notorious
07-21-2009, 03:27 AM
Watson and Barnes make them the deepest team in the NBA? Not sure about that

Well, it's not only that. Watson and Barnes add depth but it's also the addition of Anderson, Bass and retaining Gortat as well. It's a deep bench for sure but I don't think that qualifies them as "favs to win it all". Celtics and Cavs have also made improvements to their squads and their knocking on the reigning Eastern Conference champs' door. We'll have to see how chemistry plays out with the addition of VC.

Derick713
07-21-2009, 03:28 AM
It's on Vince Carter now. He's got no excuse unless you take his age into consideration. He's got an elite big man and great wing talent around him.

yoloboy87
07-21-2009, 03:40 AM
yes sir. the cavs better make some moves cuz shaq wont be enough,.

Zefflin
07-21-2009, 03:52 AM
They did get more than Shaq...AP and Moon. Two players I used to enjoy watching...damn you Cavs stealing the few players I like in this league...

robruss614
07-21-2009, 04:25 AM
Im sorry magic fans but i fail to see how this is a better team from last year. Your biggest assest was the matchup problems you gave teams with the big lineup with alsto/nelson, turk,pietrus, lewis,howard you dont have that now, i know vc is 6'7'' but he is a scorer not a facilitator like turk im sure your team is still going to be very good but i dont think it is no where near as dangerous as last year!!!

jdricks
07-21-2009, 07:22 AM
I don't get why people don't think VC is an upgrade over Turk.

You all will see, VC gets the chance to play for a REAL contender, he is gonna show up.

The '01 Nets weren't contenders? Turk fits the offense better and since they are playing with a traditional lineup goodbye mismatches at the 4 and there outside-inside offense.

Tommyh1331
07-21-2009, 07:42 AM
Seems the Magic Haters are showing up early this year...last year they didn't come out til the Boston Series...It doesn't matter what they think though this team is deep Barnes is finally official at 1.6 mill for 2 years..And the Magic working a trade with Golden State for Watson.

Sickening make your jump like Rod Strickland

Tommyh1331
07-21-2009, 07:43 AM
Who is going to be the first to Dawn a sig of Matt Barnes in a Magic Uniform??

JayW_1023
07-21-2009, 07:54 AM
I think this team will underachieve in the regular season...but be much better in the postseason. They finally have some toughness and rebounding help up front in Brandon Bass and Gortat.

I do think Vince Carters addition will force Van Gundy to shake things up offensively. It might take awhile in the regular season to integrate him...so I expect Orlando to struggle a bit out of the gate.

But once the postseason comes and they stay healthy...they will be a contender.

BkOriginalOne
07-21-2009, 07:54 AM
They certainly got better, but most likely only a few games winning difference.
Assuming everyone stays healthy their a top 5 team. But that's it.

They've made a lot of signings but who knows how it will all gel. Stan Van Gundy is BRILLIANT like some other coaches to get this all working in 1 year.

Sure their deep, but the Lakers, Spurs, Cavs, and Celtics still are favored over them.

JayW_1023
07-21-2009, 07:58 AM
^^^^

I actually think they will not win as many games as last season...but still be a more versatile team and better equipped for the postseason.

Dwight_is_King
07-21-2009, 08:06 AM
i look at it like this:

Carter>Lee
Rashard>Hedo at the 3
Bass>Rashard at the 4
Nelson>Alston (consistency!!)
Anderson>Battie
Matt Barnes + MP>Just MP
CJ Watson + Johnson>Just Johnson
Another year of maturity(especially Dwight and Gortat)=Priceless

There are things money can't buy; for everything else there's Otis

Mile High Champ
07-21-2009, 08:26 AM
I still believe the team is right around where it was at the end of this past season. Yes they have gotten better on paper but I am not sold on the fact that they improved with the addition of carter over turk. Until the lakers lose Odom, they are still the best team in the nba. I would even have to consider teams like the Celtics, Spurs and Cavs being better than the magic. All have improved their teams greatly.

JayW_1023
07-21-2009, 08:28 AM
i look at it like this:

Carter>Lee
Rashard>Hedo at the 3
Bass>Rashard at the 4
Nelson>Alston (consistency!!)
Anderson>Battie
Matt Barnes + MP>Just MP
CJ Watson + Johnson>Just Johnson
Another year of maturity(especially Dwight and Gortat)=Priceless

There are things money can't buy; for everything else there's Otis

It's more complicated than measuring things like that. Because the different aquisitions all put different things to the table. Sure they are deeper, but there is also the issue with how well the players play together. This team is in essence completely different than last seasons.

I still think Hedo is significantly overall better than Shard. Rashard is a slightly better scorer...but Hedo is much better seeing the floor and handling the ball. I don't think Shard, despite his height can bring to the table what Hedo did...especially facilitating and help space the floor. The Turks game has more dimensions.

Hedo is out and Carter is in. I don't think Carter can take over Hedo's role just like that. However, he is one of the best at creating his own shot...so I expect the Magic to slow things down more and give Carter more ISOlation plays in the half court, like he is accustomed to.

If SVG starts Bass and Carter forms a backcourt tandem with Nelson, this has become more of a half court oriented basketball club. The tempo will slow down. The main concern is if Jameer Nelson, who is more or less a shoot first PG, can generate enough ball movement to keep all the scorers happy. Which is essentially what made Hedo so important, because he kept the ball moving.

Carter is a great scorer but he is a ball stopper...it'll be interesting to see if he can adjust his game a bit playing alongside more talent that he ever has.

Mile High Champ
07-21-2009, 08:28 AM
i look at it like this:

Carter>Lee
Rashard>Hedo at the 3
Bass>Rashard at the 4
Nelson>Alston (consistency!!)
Anderson>Battie
Matt Barnes + MP>Just MP
CJ Watson + Johnson>Just Johnson
Another year of maturity(especially Dwight and Gortat)=Priceless

There are things money can't buy; for everything else there's Otis

Come on, thats not even a realistic way to even comapre the teams from last season and this year. Especially when you arguing that Rashard Lewis will be better than Hedo when he moves back to 3. Plus how can you even argue with Bass over Rashard? I don't see how that is possible considering many people respect what Lewis has done at the PF position, he really has become a grerat hybrid 4 in the nba..

#1Mavericksfan
07-21-2009, 08:28 AM
The Magic are gonna miss Hedo more than they know.....Vince Carter has no heart and when the pressure in on in the playoffs where gonna see it, Howard got exposed by Pau, Bynum and Odom by being predictable, Bass don't play defense and Matt Barnes hasn't done anything good in the NBA since the spring of 2007, I'm not hating on the Magic but it kills me when people put them in the ECF because they look good on paper.

mikantsass
07-21-2009, 09:08 AM
How much $$$ in luxury tax are they going to pay this year??

Diehardheatfan
07-21-2009, 09:18 AM
Sorry. Orlando overachieved last year. No way the beat boston with a healthyKG last year. They have made nice changes but at the same time lost most of your shooters which was your whole identity along with the matchup problems you caused. Personally, i think the Lakers, Cavs and Celtics will do far better this year.

jnb58
07-21-2009, 09:19 AM
With the soon-to-be signing of Jeremy Richardson, Matt Barnes and CJ Watson, while still searching for another big, is Orlando the deepest team in the NBA?

PG - Jameer Nelson, CJ Watson, Anthony Johnson
SG - Vince Carter, Mikhael Pietrus, JJ Redick
SF - Rashard Lewis, Matt Barnes, Jeremy Richardson
PF - Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson, ?
C - Dwight Howard, Marcin Gortat

With 4 of the 5 starters current/former allstars and solid role players off the bench, is Orlando also the favorites to win next season?

Backups vs backups. Blazers beat the crap out of them.

CraigtheSoxFan
07-21-2009, 09:20 AM
Funny how your name is Leon Powe is Beast and your Celtics left him out there for the vultures to end his pathetic NBA career. Leon Powe being a beast is "not even close", the mid-30s core of the Celtics team will bring that squad down, whether it happens by injury or just wear-and-tear, that team wont make it past the ECFs. Btw that's a Dwight Howard guarantee not a Mo William's guarantee.

After a Game 5 loss:
Dwight - I guarentee we'll win this series
Reporter - Did you know the Celts are 32-0 after being up 3-2
Dwight - Well I guess we'll just have to make them 32-1

Final Result? 32 and 1 BABY! 32-1

wow thats a lot of trash from a guy who his magic lost to the finals by a team that boston beat last year
and 32 an 1 theory wow im hurt now? hahahahahahahahah give mr a break
news flash c's added rasheed wallace and marquis daniels to their bench 2 guys that you wanted on your team insted of cj watson and matt barens come on addmit it! and dont give me the leon powe theory the reason we lost is KG was hurt and you guys were lucky! but next year boston will get it's revenge on your magic with a healthy KG and new comers rasheed and Marquis along side him and not to forget the cavs are also looking for there revenge to if you what i mean!

GAWDtv
07-21-2009, 10:02 AM
I think they should have Sat Nelson in the finals. They had good chem. and balance going with Alston and Anthony and getting your legs back is not something you can do in the finals.

I remember the Buffalo Bills with Flutie at the helm because Johnson got hurt. He came back the last game of the season that Flutie led them to a playoff birth. Bills started Johnson and lost the wildcard game. Even if that's your #1 guy, chemistry is more important than anything come winning time. They just beat the defending champs, the League MVP and top team in the season without Nelson, that is why you never fix what ain't broke or you just might break it.

Optimus Prime15
07-21-2009, 10:07 AM
For all you Carter haters and Lee Lovers! We actually got better defensively! and creatively we got better! Vince is a better passer than Hedo! Hedo looks for his own shot too much rather than hit the right teammate at the right time! and Hedo could only go left! Letís see how he does in a different system in Toronto where Bosh isnít really a pnr player! Donít forget in Jersey Carter was in the PNR set alot also but can create for himself and others better! and let's not forget that the only reason Lee started during the season was because Pietrus got hurt! When Pietrus came back! hit the bench kid! Lee is good though but still young and not his time yet!

Optimus Prime15
07-21-2009, 10:12 AM
Sorry. Orlando overachieved last year. No way the beat boston with a healthyKG last year. They have made nice changes but at the same time lost most of your shooters which was your whole identity along with the matchup problems you caused. Personally, i think the Lakers, Cavs and Celtics will do far better this year.

How did we lose most of our shooters? Hedo and Lee? That's most? talk what you know, not what you think! Your opinion doesn't matter! Facts do! So let's see Bass doesn't present a mismatch? Carter doesn't present mismatches? Lewis at the 3 and still the 4 isn't a mismatch? Ryan Anderson's shooting ability doesn't create mismatches? MAtt Barnes with the right line up doesn't create mismatches? wow you people need to watch more ball and pay attention! If anything our shooting has gotten much better!

Raph12
07-21-2009, 10:39 AM
I don't know how many different people to quote when they say Hedo is a better playmaker than VC, VC handles the ball less gets as many assists with lower turnovers on a less offensively potent team. Hedo turns the ball over alot, takes alot of bad shots and did the Magic a favour by going to Toronto. He was nothing before Orlando and he`ll be nothing after. One Finals appearance and everyone is ready to suck his nut

bostncelts34
07-21-2009, 10:51 AM
they are good but i honestly think boston is deeper.

Rondo-Hudson-Pruitt
Allen-House-Giddens
Pierce-Daniels-Walker
KG-(davis soon)
Perkins-Sheed


But wow, Cleveland, Orlando and Boston are definitly super scary with key bench additions such as Barnes,Pietrus,Watson,Daniels,Sheed,Moon,Shaq

Penetra8r
07-21-2009, 10:53 AM
Not bad of a roster.

ManRam
07-21-2009, 10:53 AM
There isn't one clear-cut favorite. But Orlando, Boston, Cleveland, SA and LA are definitely, definitely, definitely the teams to beat. If Odom doesn't go back to LA, I like our chances a lot more. But a healthy KG+Sheed, Shaq, and RJ will make things a lot tougher than last year. The road to the Finals, for both conferences, is gonna be a lot tougher.

Optimus Prime15
07-21-2009, 10:54 AM
they are good but i honestly think boston is deeper.

Rondo-Hudson-Pruitt
Allen-House-Giddens
Pierce-Daniels-Walker
KG-(davis soon)
Perkins-Sheed


But wow, Cleveland, Orlando and Boston are definitly super scary with key bench additions such as Barnes,Pietrus,Watson,Daniels,Sheed,Moon,Shaq

Lol did you really just say Lester Hudson? Pruitt maybe on his way out! and Walker or J.R. just for Daniels! We have to many bigs for them! and Allen can't guard Carter and neither can P Double! Not too mention what Lewis did to them in the playoffs! and then on top of that they will have to worry about Bass and Howard down low! SHHIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!

Optimus Prime15
07-21-2009, 10:56 AM
Not bad of a roster.

He included like 4 or 5 unproven players that might not even play anything next to mediocre minutes! JR no, Walker no, Hudson no, Pruitt maybe!

Optimus Prime15
07-21-2009, 10:59 AM
they are good but i honestly think boston is deeper.

Rondo-Hudson-Pruitt
Allen-House-Giddens
Pierce-Daniels-Walker
KG-(davis soon)
Perkins-Sheed


But wow, Cleveland, Orlando and Boston are definitly super scary with key bench additions such as Barnes,Pietrus,Watson,Daniels,Sheed,Moon,Shaq

Do you realize Ray Allen, P Double and KG play 36-40 minutes a night! and that rate increases tremendously in the playoffs? They will be too drained when the Fantasic 4 (Orlando Magic) comes to town!

1WorthyLakerFan
07-21-2009, 11:00 AM
Celtics still better in my mind, but they are getting close.

prodigy
07-21-2009, 11:00 AM
lets wait until most players sign. because matt barnes really wants to play in cleveland not orlando. If the cavs make a offer he's there.

masalex1205
07-21-2009, 11:01 AM
I don't get why people don't think VC is an upgrade over Turk.

You all will see, VC gets the chance to play for a REAL contender, he is gonna show up.

Im not sold on this idea. I really liked Courtney Lee and thought that Lee/Turk>>>>Carter.

nelson
lee
turk
lewis
howard

Optimus Prime15
07-21-2009, 11:02 AM
lets wait until most players sign. because matt barnes really wants to play in cleveland not orlando. If the cavs make a offer he's there.

Prodigy go read! http://thepunsarestartingtoboreme.com/

torontomania
07-21-2009, 11:03 AM
how did they get all this money

Optimus Prime15
07-21-2009, 11:03 AM
Im not sold on this idea. I really liked Courtney Lee and thought that Lee/Turk>>>>Carter.

nelson
lee
turk
lewis
howard

Same lineup that didn't get it done! Time for Change! Change we believe in! LOL!

CraigtheSoxFan
07-21-2009, 11:11 AM
lol did you really just say lester hudson? Pruitt maybe on his way out! And walker or j.r. Just for daniels! We have to many bigs for them! And allen can't guard carter and neither can p double! Not too mention what lewis did to them in the playoffs! And then on top of that they will have to worry about bass and howard down low! Shhiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol!
3 words rasheed and marquis

CraigtheSoxFan
07-21-2009, 11:16 AM
Same lineup that didn't get it done! Time for Change! Change we believe in! LOL!
I have feeling that orlando will be a bust this season like your devil rays did in baseball this season

tbomlad
07-21-2009, 11:22 AM
tho vince is a all around better scorer, hedo was a more efficient scorer, better passer, better playmaker, and better shooter. vince has a tendency to jack up 20 ft jumpers like no other, and has lost a lot of his slashing ability, altho he still has that occasional out of the world dunks

How is a guy who averaged 13 pts a game a more efficient scorer than a guy who averaged over 20 pts? Turk has a low basketball IQ and can be extremely sloppy with the ball offensively. Turk is not and never will be an NBA elite like VC. You will notice that it's fans of other teams who talk such nonsense. They'll be hating us all the way to our parade in June.

tbomlad
07-21-2009, 11:23 AM
I have feeling that orlando will be a bust this season like your devil rays did in baseball this season

One word for you- PRAY!!!!!

tbomlad
07-21-2009, 11:33 AM
wow thats a lot of trash from a guy who his magic lost to the finals by a team that boston beat last year
and 32 an 1 theory wow im hurt now? hahahahahahahahah give mr a break
news flash c's added rasheed wallace and marquis daniels to their bench 2 guys that you wanted on your team insted of cj watson and matt barens come on addmit it! and dont give me the leon powe theory the reason we lost is KG was hurt and you guys were lucky! but next year boston will get it's revenge on your magic with a healthy KG and new comers rasheed and Marquis along side him and not to forget the cavs are also looking for there revenge to if you what i mean!

Lucky?! I love how losers always use this word. FYI, why do you think Wallace would not give the Celtics an answer until more than a week after they went crying for their life to him? Because he wanted to be with Orlando. He met with Orlando but Otis did not offer a contract because we preferred the 25 yr old Bass instead of the 36 yr old Wallace. You got older and slower, congrats Celtics. And again, we prefer to try and sign Barnes over Daniels because Barnes possesses a physical aspect that Daniels does not. So yes, you got the two guys we didn't want.

Iron24th
07-21-2009, 11:37 AM
They're very deep now for sure,and the favorite...to win the east,but not it all,cause in Finals they'll meet us.

PBG
07-21-2009, 11:42 AM
how did they get all this money

this is how (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/10/billionaires-2009-richest-people_Richard-DeVos_GLPH.html)

CraigtheSoxFan
07-21-2009, 11:45 AM
One word for you- PRAY!!!!!


Lucky?! I love how losers always use this word. FYI, why do you think Wallace would not give the Celtics an answer until more than a week after they went crying for their life to him? Because he wanted to be with Orlando. He met with Orlando but Otis did not offer a contract because we preferred the 25 yr old Bass instead of the 36 yr old Wallace. You got older and slower, congrats Celtics. And again, we prefer to try and sign Barnes over Daniels because Barnes possesses a physical aspect that Daniels does not. So yes, you got the two guys we didn't want.

your wronng magic wanted wallce and daniels there was a report that orland was going to make a big offer but boston blew you guys out of the water and another thing im the one to pary speak for your self yess you guys got better but look around you the cavs gott better the heat got better the pistons got better and boston got better you should be praying mot me and thats the truth

ManRam
07-21-2009, 11:51 AM
LOL at Craig's sig.

You're right. It's the truth. It's a fact. Why play the season...or the post-season? Why not let Craig tell us who will win???

Craig is the TRUTH.

CraigtheSoxFan
07-21-2009, 11:55 AM
LOL at Craig's sig.

You're right. It's the truth. It's a fact. Why play the season...or the post-season? Why not let Craig tell us who will win???

Craig is the TRUTH.
you guys walk all over us when KG was injurd so when next season comes boston will be bigger and stronger

RLundi
07-21-2009, 11:57 AM
I don't know about the deepest team in the league but I think it sets them up to be a more complete team than last year no doubt about it. I still think the Blazers have a better bench and the Spurs and Lakers (if they re-sign Odom) are right there as well. But I do think the Magic are in a better position to win a championship than they were last year.

RLundi
07-21-2009, 11:59 AM
you guys walk all over us when KG was injurd so when next season comes boston will be bigger and stronger

Don't forget older.

CraigtheSoxFan
07-21-2009, 12:02 PM
Don't forget older.
older is 38 or 40 kg ray ray and sheed are not 38 or 40 so dont give me that

pebloemer
07-21-2009, 12:02 PM
How is a guy who averaged 13 pts a game a more efficient scorer than a guy who averaged over 20 pts?

How does PPG measure efficiency?

Efficiency:
The production of the desired effects or results with minimum waste of time, effort, or skill.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/efficiency

I would think FG% or points per possession, or PER would be better parameters for arguing efficiency.

That being said, Vince shot better percentages last year and had a far better PER. If you want to argue with stats, thats the argument I'd make.

PBG
07-21-2009, 12:04 PM
I don't know about the deepest team in the league but I think it sets them up to be a more complete team than last year no doubt about it. I still think the Blazers have a better bench and the Spurs and Lakers (if they re-sign Odom) are right there as well. But I do think the Magic are in a better position to win a championship than they were last year.

Carter , Bass and Barnes = not better than Turkey Glue and Lee.

Turkey Glue was your most clutch/versatile player and Lee is soon to be a boss in the league.

CraigtheSoxFan
07-21-2009, 12:05 PM
Carter , Bass and Barnes = not better than Turkey Glue and Lee.

Turkey Glue was your most clutch/versatile player and Lee is soon to be a boss in the league.

i agree with you

RLundi
07-21-2009, 12:07 PM
older is 38 or 40 kg ray ray and sheed are not 38 or 40 so dont give me that

Ray Allen is 34, Garnett is 33 and Pierce is 32. They're starting to get old. You saw it last year in the post season. The young Bulls almost ran them to death. They couldn't keep up. They got worn out by Orlando because of the wear and tear that comes with advancement of age. Plus, the older you get, the more risk of injury you have. Point in case- Kevin Garnett. I won't even mention Rasheed Wallace.

So, yes, I will give you that: they are older.

MSG34
07-21-2009, 12:07 PM
The Lakers are still the favorites to win it all. They did win the championship and they did have a good offseason.

CraigtheSoxFan
07-21-2009, 12:09 PM
Ray Allen is 34, Garnett is 33 and Pierce is 32. They're starting to get old. You saw it last year in the post season. The young Bulls almost ran them to death. They couldn't keep up. They got worn out by Orlando because of the wear and tear that comes with advancement of age. Plus, the older you get, the more risk of injury you have. Point in case- Kevin Garnett. I won't even mention Rasheed Wallace.

So, yes, I will give you that: they are older.

for get the old all ready p.s we still; beaten chicago

RLundi
07-21-2009, 12:11 PM
Carter , Bass and Barnes = not better than Turkey Glue and Lee.

Turkey Glue was your most clutch/versatile player and Lee is soon to be a boss in the league.

Turkoglu was the most inconsistent player on the Magic. Carter is LEVELS better than him. Losing Lee was hard, I'll admit. But the addition of Carter will soothe that tremendously. Lee is just one guy. Barnes and Bass will complement the Magic better than one guy will. Barnes is a better defender and scorer than Lee is right now. How is that not an upgrade?

PBG
07-21-2009, 12:11 PM
older is 38 or 40 kg ray ray and sheed are not 38 or 40 so dont give me that

kg and sheed = old

allen = younger old

i only say that because kg and sheed have taking more abuse to the body than allen. so i would imagine that the more abuse you take throughout the years , the older you will feel.

just my 2 cents that wasnt needed.......

RLundi
07-21-2009, 12:13 PM
for get the old all ready p.s we still; beaten chicago

You're right. I hate playing the 'what if' game. So, in that same respect, the Magic beat the Celtics. Forget 'what if they had Garnett.' As much as we want to speculate, we'll never know. So as far as it stands right now, the Magic are the best team in the East and it appears that they have gotten better with the recent additions. So until further notice, they are the team to beat in the East.

CraigtheSoxFan
07-21-2009, 12:14 PM
kg and sheed = old

allen = younger old

i only say that because kg and sheed have taking more abuse to the body than allen. so i would imagine that the more abuse you take throughout the years , the older you will feel.

just my 2 cents that wasnt needed.......

but old is good tho they were old when they got the rings

CraigtheSoxFan
07-21-2009, 12:15 PM
You're right. I hate playing the 'what if' game. So, in that same respect, the Magic beat the Celtics. Forget 'what if they had Garnett.' As much as we want to speculate, we'll never know. So as far as it stands right now, the Magic are the best team in the East and it appears that they have gotten better with the recent additions. So until further notice, they are the team to beat in the East.

i hate this but i have to say it you do have a point

PBG
07-21-2009, 12:24 PM
but old is good tho they were old when they got the rings

sheed was different when we won in 04. after that his defense started slacking , granted he got more crafty with his defense it just wasnt the same. i hope you guys get the real sheed tho unlike the past 2 years here where he was basically bum status for lack of effort.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2009, 12:27 PM
well, the Lakers, Celtics, and Cavs aren't done adding. Its always funny how some vets just wait it out, and then in October, sign with a contender. I still think LA's depth is gonna be tough to match. But yes, Orlando's does look great.

jim51990
07-21-2009, 12:32 PM
celtics and lakers are both clearly better teams and id say cleveland is just as good

69centers
07-21-2009, 12:34 PM
Old or not, I'll still take a team full of ringbearers over a deep team without a championship. Until someone on the Magic (umm, VC) can prove they can win it all, they're not the best in the NBA.

driz
07-21-2009, 12:40 PM
Not after VC goes down with a hurt knee and they realize the mistake they made in letting Hedo get away.

Can't deny LA stepped their game up in adding Artest - even with losing Odom and Ariza. Cleveland I'm really feeling though. Shaq and Jamario are solid adds.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2009, 12:42 PM
Not after VC goes down with a hurt knee and they realize the mistake they made in letting Hedo get away.

Can't deny LA stepped their game up in adding Artest - even with losing Odom and Ariza. Cleveland I'm really feeling though. Shaq and Jamario are solid adds.

Artest does not replace both Odom and Ariza. Not even close. But like I said, I would be surprised if LA doesn't add another vet. Boston as well.
Cleveland is looking better. In fact, its really 5-6 teams, then a steep dropoff

Raph12
07-21-2009, 01:08 PM
but old is good tho they were old when they got the rings

Dude cmon if your gonna put my name in your sig then atleast get it right. It's Raph12 not "Rahp12" and if the Celts get that far again the big 3 will be 3 years older since they won the championship and adding Sheed who btw gave up in the playoffs when playing the Cavs just makes this team older and slower, the young teams will give the Celts a run for their money again next year in the 1st round. Btw Orlando wanted Sheed but Otis said he was still thinking about him because of his attitude and the amount he'll want. Plus Boston sent Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Doc Rivers (Coach), Danny Ainge (GM), Rich Gotham (Team President) and Wycliffe Grousbeck (Team Owner) to court Sheed, talk about desperate, but Sheed still said he'd think about it. After talking to Otis and Otis telling him that he will NOT offer him the full MLE (After acquiring VC, Otis said he wants to use the MLE on a couple of guys) Sheed said yes to Boston. Don't even talk about Marquis Daniels, he himself said he'd love to be back in Orlando, but Orlando had already told Matt Barnes that after they got Brandon Bass they would give Barnes their full attention, Barnes turned down the Cavs 3+m offer (which they gave to Moon instead) because he wanted to play for Orlando. If Orlando gave Sheed the full MLE he'd be in blue right now instead of green, but that's a choice Otis decided not to make. Btw with the loss of Leon Powe, Stephon Marbury and possibly Glen Davis Boston will not be a deep team next year, expect those 6 players (starting line and Sheed) to play the bulk of the minutes in the playoffs and be eliminated by Cleveland or Orlando in the second round, that's if they can survive the young teams in the first round

Raps18-19 Champ
07-21-2009, 01:09 PM
No.

I still have 2 teams ahead of them but even then, guys like Boston, Spurs and Mavs could come from behind.

FairWeatherFan?
07-21-2009, 01:11 PM
1. Lakers
2.Celtics/Cavs
4. Magic

The real reason Orlando beat Cleveland was that Cleveland was constantly having to double down on D12 and Orlando would swing the ball to the open corner. If Shaq is half of what he was last season, that problem is completely gone. D12 can still go for 50% from the field with just Shaq guarding him, but Cleveland will be able to protect the perimeter. Last year, if they were to leave just Z on D12, he would have gone for 75%-99% from the field so they doubled down and decided to let Orlando live and die by the three. Orlando lived, LeBron didn't shake and the rest is history.

iluvsports2much
07-21-2009, 01:19 PM
how does losing hedo turkoglu, courtney lee,and rafer alston and gain an aging vince carter put them over the top as deepest team in the nba....:confused:

no i think its cleveland, boston, and lakers in that order...resigning lamar mite shake that up a lil tho...

Hawkeye15
07-21-2009, 01:26 PM
Dude cmon if your gonna put my name in your sig then atleast get it right. It's Raph12 not "Rahp12" and if the Celts get that far again the big 3 will be 3 years older since they won the championship and adding Sheed who btw gave up in the playoffs when playing the Cavs just makes this team older and slower, the young teams will give the Celts a run for their money again next year in the 1st round. Btw Orlando wanted Sheed but Otis said he was still thinking about him because of his attitude and the amount he'll want. Plus Boston sent Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Doc Rivers (Coach), Danny Ainge (GM), Rich Gotham (Team President) and Wycliffe Grousbeck (Team Owner) to court Sheed, talk about desperate, but Sheed still said he'd think about it. After talking to Otis and Otis telling him that he will NOT offer him the full MLE (After acquiring VC, Otis said he wants to use the MLE on a couple of guys) Sheed said yes to Boston. Don't even talk about Marquis Daniels, he himself said he'd love to be back in Orlando, but Orlando had already told Matt Barnes that after they got Brandon Bass they would give Barnes their full attention, Barnes turned down the Cavs 3+m offer (which they gave to Moon instead) because he wanted to play for Orlando. If Orlando gave Sheed the full MLE he'd be in blue right now instead of green, but that's a choice Otis decided not to make. Btw with the loss of Leon Powe, Stephon Marbury and possibly Glen Davis Boston will not be a deep team next year, expect those 6 players (starting line and Sheed) to play the bulk of the minutes in the playoffs and be eliminated by Cleveland or Orlando in the second round, that's if they can survive the young teams in the first round


Rondo is a far better player now. Don't underestimate a motivated Sheed. And as I have continued to mention, there are still vets out there, or ones that will be waived before the season starts, that will come flocking to the contenders. Boston will be just fine if they stay healthy

tonyd3b54
07-21-2009, 01:26 PM
if the celtics resign big baby id consider them better...

rondo, bi annual exemption
allen , house
pierce, daniels
garnett, davis
perkins, sheed

theuuord
07-21-2009, 01:29 PM
The '01 Nets weren't contenders? Turk fits the offense better and since they are playing with a traditional lineup goodbye mismatches at the 4 and there outside-inside offense.

The '01 Nets were contenders, yes. But that kind of hurts your argument, because Vince Carter wasn't on the '01 Nets.

I still can't believe people think Turkoglu is an upgrade over Carter. This is madness. this is insane. I might have to actually make a whole thread dedicated to how incorrect of an idea this is.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2009, 01:30 PM
The '01 Nets were contenders, yes. But that kind of hurts your argument, because Vince Carter wasn't on the '01 Nets.

I still can't believe people think Turkoglu is an upgrade over Carter. This is madness. this is insane. I might have to actually make a whole thread dedicated to how incorrect of an idea this is.

go for it. May be a decent thread.

theuuord
07-21-2009, 01:31 PM
go for it. May be a decent thread.

i gotta run out to the bank and for a job interview, so i can't get it up now. but i'll start the comparison on my computer.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2009, 01:32 PM
i gotta run out to the bank and for a job interview, so i can't get it up now. but i'll start the comparison on my computer.

good luck

iluvsports2much
07-21-2009, 01:33 PM
The '01 Nets were contenders, yes. But that kind of hurts your argument, because Vince Carter wasn't on the '01 Nets.

I still can't believe people think Turkoglu is an upgrade over Carter. This is madness. this is insane. I might have to actually make a whole thread dedicated to how incorrect of an idea this is.

and i mite have to make a thread on how vince carter isnt an upgrade over turkaglu lee and rafer alston...

that was a bad move IMO,ppl dont know it yet,but i think that orlando team isnt a title contender anymore...i still think they will make a run at it,but i doubt they get past boston AND cleveland with their roster like it is now..

Grim Reaper
07-21-2009, 01:49 PM
No way. Celtics, Lakers, Cavs, and even the Nuggets are better than Orlando. The Magic are going to suffer with no Hedo Turkoglu guaranteed.

mgsports
07-21-2009, 02:02 PM
Ben Wallace?
Glenn Davis?
Nate Robinson?
Joe Smith?

J_M_B
07-21-2009, 02:02 PM
They are the deepest team in the league, but not the favorites to win it all. That team is still on the west coast.

Chronz
07-21-2009, 02:05 PM
and i mite have to make a thread on how vince carter isnt an upgrade over turkaglu lee and rafer alston...

that was a bad move IMO,ppl dont know it yet,but i think that orlando team isnt a title contender anymore...i still think they will make a run at it,but i doubt they get past boston AND cleveland with their roster like it is now..

VC+Anderson+Barnes+Watson > Rafer, Lee, and Turk

People will find that out soon enough, god I cant wait for the season to start. Turk, lol, guy has nothing on Vince.

tbomlad
07-21-2009, 02:06 PM
your wronng magic wanted wallce and daniels there was a report that orland was going to make a big offer but boston blew you guys out of the water and another thing im the one to pary speak for your self yess you guys got better but look around you the cavs gott better the heat got better the pistons got better and boston got better you should be praying mot me and thats the truth

I just gave you the facts. Where is your source that there was a big offer for Wallace? If we sign Barnes then we've gotten exactly who we wanted. Do you really believe the Old Celts whose window is about closed can compete with a team that will be a Finals mainstay for the next decade?

tbomlad
07-21-2009, 02:15 PM
How does PPG measure efficiency?

Efficiency:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/efficiency

I would think FG% or points per possession, or PER would be better parameters for arguing efficiency.

That being said, Vince shot better percentages last year and had a far better PER. If you want to argue with stats, thats the argument I'd make.

Obviously when your point differential is that great, as it is between VC and Turk, then the other stats you mentioned are going to be there. That was the point! As a matter of fact, VC statistically was better than Turk in 4th qtr scoring which is considered Turk's strength. So whoever said Turk is more efficient than VC needs to watch more basketball.

JordansBulls
07-21-2009, 02:15 PM
That #1 seed in the east and west will be a battle. No one wants to play that #3 seed as the #2 seed.

If you are the #1 seed let's say it is Orlando then that means the #2 and #3 are more likely to be Boston and Cleveland.

In the west if the #1 seed is the Spurs than that means the #2 is the Lakers and Mavs.

tbomlad
07-21-2009, 02:16 PM
i agree with you

of course you do

THE MTL
07-21-2009, 02:17 PM
They have to get CJ Watson first....and its still a battle with the Celtics.

Optimus Prime15
07-21-2009, 02:19 PM
Dude cmon if your gonna put my name in your sig then atleast get it right. It's Raph12 not "Rahp12" and if the Celts get that far again the big 3 will be 3 years older since they won the championship and adding Sheed who btw gave up in the playoffs when playing the Cavs just makes this team older and slower, the young teams will give the Celts a run for their money again next year in the 1st round. Btw Orlando wanted Sheed but Otis said he was still thinking about him because of his attitude and the amount he'll want. Plus Boston sent Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Doc Rivers (Coach), Danny Ainge (GM), Rich Gotham (Team President) and Wycliffe Grousbeck (Team Owner) to court Sheed, talk about desperate, but Sheed still said he'd think about it. After talking to Otis and Otis telling him that he will NOT offer him the full MLE (After acquiring VC, Otis said he wants to use the MLE on a couple of guys) Sheed said yes to Boston. Don't even talk about Marquis Daniels, he himself said he'd love to be back in Orlando, but Orlando had already told Matt Barnes that after they got Brandon Bass they would give Barnes their full attention, Barnes turned down the Cavs 3+m offer (which they gave to Moon instead) because he wanted to play for Orlando. If Orlando gave Sheed the full MLE he'd be in blue right now instead of green, but that's a choice Otis decided not to make. Btw with the loss of Leon Powe, Stephon Marbury and possibly Glen Davis Boston will not be a deep team next year, expect those 6 players (starting line and Sheed) to play the bulk of the minutes in the playoffs and be eliminated by Cleveland or Orlando in the second round, that's if they can survive the young teams in the first round

Raph12 that's if they get past Atlanta! Because Jamaal Crawford is going to go off on they old ***** in Beantown! LOL! Bass is stronger than Beantowns whole frontline! LMAO! Not too mention D12, Gortat and Ryan! and we might still get Ratliff! Damn sorry Cle and Beans!

Frezhnitz
07-21-2009, 02:20 PM
funny thread. No, they wont win.

Optimus Prime15
07-21-2009, 02:22 PM
Obviously when your point differential is that great, as it is between VC and Turk, then the other stats you mentioned are going to be there. That was the point! As a matter of fact, VC statistically was better than Turk in 4th qtr scoring which is considered Turk's strength. So whoever said Turk is more efficient than VC needs to watch more basketball.

Your the man tbomlad! Nicely said! Hats off to you!

Kakaroach
07-21-2009, 02:24 PM
I have them down as the favorites until the Lakers decide to re-sign Lamar Odom...But yeah they have improved themselves greatly.

Kidd>>>K-Mart
07-21-2009, 02:34 PM
They definately will have the best depth team in the league but will not be the best team.

st3voness
07-21-2009, 02:38 PM
Best team on paper, but will have a disappointing season.

nsadoru2
07-21-2009, 02:40 PM
No, Not even close. Celtics or Lakers. I like the C's to win it. Magic had a magical season where everything went right jumpshooting teams like that don't fair well for Championships. C's will be downright mean on D.:mad:

magic4life
07-21-2009, 02:41 PM
Kidd>>>K-Mart--> Enjoy C. Lee! He's gonna be a stud, and he's already a great character guy..

This Craig Fellow is just tripping.. for real.. Im sorry that your boston franchise's have been struggling for the past few years but dont take it out on the magic, or the "rays"(not devil rays)

- Magic beating boston in East semi-finals
- Rays beating red sox in ALCS
- Pats losing the perfect season to the Giants in the superbowl

priceless

not gonna lie tho.. boston has some damn good teams

magic will own the celtics

Giantwarrior
07-21-2009, 02:41 PM
they should have let Gortat go and then they should have signed big baby davis. its like killing 2 birds with one stone. they add a solid player and celtics lose one.

Raph12
07-21-2009, 03:03 PM
how does losing hedo turkoglu, courtney lee,and rafer alston and gain an aging vince carter put them over the top as deepest team in the nba....:confused:

no i think its cleveland, boston, and lakers in that order...resigning lamar mite shake that up a lil tho...

Lmao how does losing a guy who plays 0.7mpg at 33 years old (Tony Battie), an inconsistent all-around 30 year old (Turk), an even more inconsistent shooter 34 year old (Rafer) and okay a potentially good 24 year old (C Lee) while gaining a more skilled 32 year old (VC), defensive-minded 29 year old (Barnes), a raw but skilled 24 year old (Bass), a young raw shooting big 21 year old (Ryan Anderson) and soon-to-be-signed young 25 year old (CJ Watson) who can score in bunches not make the Magic a deeper team.

Last years lineup:
PG - Rafer Alston, Anthony Johnson (34), (Jameer Nelson was injured in the playoffs)
SG - Courtney Lee, JJ Redick
SF - Hedo Turkoglu, Mikhael Pietrus
PF - Rashard Lewis, Tony Battie
C - Dwight Howard, Marcin Gortat

Now how is that deeper than this?
PG - Jameer Nelson, CJ Watson, Anthony Johnson
SG - Vince Carter, Mikhael Pietrus, JJ Redick
SF - Rashard Lewis, Matt Barnes
PF - Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson
C - Dwight Howard, Marcin Gortat

Now if you feel the first lineup is better/deeper than god help you

Btw Cleveland win not win 65+ games next year Shaq will drag them down, Boston is too old and slow for their own good Sheed will give up in the playoffs and if LA doesn't get Odom back they will have the worst bench of any contending team. IMO it is in this order in the East: Orlando, Cleveland, Boston and in the West: San Antonio, LAL (Should Odom not return), Dallas

macc
07-21-2009, 03:12 PM
I have feeling that orlando will be a bust this season like your devil rays did in baseball this season



Haha your signature. You know your team is a THREAT when you have Boston fans going out of their way telling Magic fans their team isn't better.

Honestly who knows who is the better team right now. Could be Boston, could be Orlando. I think it's to close to call. Just have to wait and see how each team plays.

I think Bostons age will catch up to them. I mean JJ Reddick was holding down Ray Allen in the playoffs last year. What does that tell you? Garnett was injured as well, same as Nelson but I think that's not a suprise for Boston. When you have older players averaging 36-40 min a game its bound to catch up with you at some point in the season.

In any case I think saying one team is better than the other is simply ignorant because once again it's to close to call. Either way there is one thing that noone can deny and that the Magic are the Eastern Conf Champions, until somone takes that from them the Magic should get the benefit of the doubt. Same as the Lakers, they are the Champions, until somone strips them of that they are at the top. Simple as that.

Raph12
07-21-2009, 03:16 PM
Haha your signature. You know your team is a THREAT when you have Boston fans going out of their way telling Magic fans their team isn't better.

Honestly who knows who is the better team right now. Could be Boston, could be Orlando. I think it's to close to call. Just have to wait and see how each team plays.

I think Bostons age will catch up to them. I mean JJ Reddick was holding down Ray Allen in the playoffs last year. What does that tell you? Garnett was injured as well, same as Nelson but I think that's not a suprise for Boston. When you have older players averaging 36-40 min a game its bound to catch up with you at some point in the season.

In any case I think saying one team is better than the other is simply ignorant because once again it's to close to call. Either way there is one thing that noone can deny and that the Magic are the Eastern Conf Champions, until somone takes that from them the Magic should get the benefit of the doubt. Same as the Lakers, they are the Champions, until somone strips them of that they are at the top. Simple as that.

Good point I totally agree, I'm just saying on paper, the Magic is the deepest team in the NBA and maybe the favs ON PAPER but Orlando is the team to beat in the East and LA is still the team to beat in the league, until another team dethrones either or

macc
07-21-2009, 03:20 PM
Old or not, I'll still take a team full of ringbearers over a deep team without a championship. Until someone on the Magic (umm, VC) can prove they can win it all, they're not the best in the NBA.



So what you're saying is you would never bet on the Cavs because Lebron doesn't have a ring? Think about your argument for a min............nope, keep thinking........

macc
07-21-2009, 03:24 PM
Not after VC goes down with a hurt knee and they realize the mistake they made in letting Hedo get away.

Can't deny LA stepped their game up in adding Artest - even with losing Odom and Ariza. Cleveland I'm really feeling though. Shaq and Jamario are solid adds.


Ok why do people keep thinking we picked Carter over Hedo? HEDO WAS GONE. He was not planning on signing with Orlando and Orlando wasn't planning on paying him 10+ million per when he's already 32 and will start declining with age. The Magic picked up Carter to fill and upgrade the hole that Hedo left.

So please stop with the whole "I can't believe you guys let Hedo go for Carter" that's NOT what happened. Understand the situation BEFORE you make a comment on it. Savy

magichatnumber9
07-21-2009, 03:29 PM
As a Celtics fan I agree that you guys are stacked and have done well this off season. I agree that you are the team to beat. I wouldn't count out the Celts yet.

Raph12
07-21-2009, 03:39 PM
Ok why do people keep thinking we picked Carter over Hedo? HEDO WAS GONE. He was not planning on signing with Orlando and Orlando wasn't planning on paying him 10+ million per when he's already 32 and will start declining with age. The Magic picked up Carter to fill and upgrade the hole that Hedo left.

So please stop with the whole "I can't believe you guys let Hedo go for Carter" that's NOT what happened. Understand the situation BEFORE you make a comment on it. Savy

Hedo is 30, but yeah your right, we made him a 5 yr 45m offer which he turned down so why go over 10m a year, 5 yr commitment for a player who's been inconsistant his whole career. Turk wanted to leave Orlando to go to a more ethnic friendly area, courtesy of his wife. Btw when Turk chucks up missed fadeaway 3s in the last 5 mins of the game while Toronto is down 5pts, then Toronto will regret overpaying/commiting to him

Btw Carter has missed 11 games in his past 5 seasons, Hidiyat (HIH-DEE-YACHT) "Hedo" Turkoglu has missed 33 games in his last 5 seasons, so get off Carter's back about injuries, that was in Toronto so they'd get him outta there. Now that he's motivated in his hometown and on a TRUE contender team, expect only greatness from him, then if he disapoints we can have this convo about age/injuries again

theuuord
07-21-2009, 03:42 PM
good luck

thanks- think I got it, but I'll find out later.

And I'm writing this up now. You'll see it within the half hour probably.

vash9
07-21-2009, 03:51 PM
If you don't think that's a devastating lineup, then wow. Honestly, that team can do hardcore damage.

IversonIsKrazy
07-21-2009, 04:01 PM
There possibly the deepest team, also i dont think Bass will start. I still c them losing to teams that have legendary bigs like Cleveland (Shaq), Boston (Garnett), Spurs (Duncan). I still think Kobe and Pau along with Artest can overpower the Magic still. They are contenders, but i still like Spurs winning it all.

pebloemer
07-21-2009, 04:01 PM
Obviously when your point differential is that great, as it is between VC and Turk, then the other stats you mentioned are going to be there. That was the point! As a matter of fact, VC statistically was better than Turk in 4th qtr scoring which is considered Turk's strength. So whoever said Turk is more efficient than VC needs to watch more basketball.

I'm not sure how that is obvious. A player who scores 20 ppg on 40 shots is definitely not as efficient as one who scores 10 ppg on 10 shots.

Also the difference is not near what you stated, Turkoglu scored much more than 13 ppg. Close to 17 ppg actually.

Bruno
07-21-2009, 04:02 PM
Maybe they're the deepest, 1-9, but I don't think that makes them favorites.

*Superman*
07-21-2009, 04:08 PM
Some of the responses ive read are sickening in this thread. Magic will be a "bust" this season, really, is that your opinion, or is that coming out of hate.

Keep hating, your gonna get proved wrong.

And Hedo leaving isn't the end of the world for us people. Carter is BETTER at everything Hedo does, so wtf. I don't understand you guys. And for the mismatches being gone, not really because Shard may still play the 4 this season.

theuuord
07-21-2009, 04:13 PM
Some of the responses ive read are sickening in this thread. Magic will be a "bust" this season, really, is that your opinion, or is that coming out of hate.

Keep hating, your gonna get proved wrong.

And Hedo leaving isn't the end of the world for us people. Carter is BETTER at everything Hedo does, so wtf. I don't understand you guys. And for the mismatches being gone, not really because Shard may still play the 4 this season.

I've just finished my thread on why Hedo is nowhere near Vince Carter.
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10222913

FUKudomeYOMOMMA
07-21-2009, 04:20 PM
with mad dog, smith, and telfair the clips got pretty deep.. or more like 6 feet under...

orlando has to be the favorite (or second favorite at least), theyve adding a lot of talent while minimizing their losses (even though courtney lee will probably come back to haunt them).. this probably wont be the end of it, sometime during the season gortat will probably be traded for a hefty return

*Superman*
07-21-2009, 04:21 PM
I've just finished my thread on why Hedo is nowhere near Vince Carter.
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10222913

:clap:X100. All the people that think Hedo is better than Vince need to read that. And then tell us what you think, and if you can still hold an argument.

:clap: again.

*Superman*
07-21-2009, 04:24 PM
with mad dog, smith, and telfair the clips got pretty deep.. or more like 6 feet under...

orlando has to be the favorite (or second favorite at least), theyve adding a lot of talent while minimizing their losses (even though courtney lee will probably come back to haunt them).. this probably wont be the end of it, sometime during the season gortat will probably be traded for a hefty return

Yes sir, and we hold a 8mill trade exception, so any team trying to clear money for 2010 can trade away a high caliber player to us.

ARMIN12NBA
07-21-2009, 04:27 PM
I don't get why people don't think VC is an upgrade over Turk.

You all will see, VC gets the chance to play for a REAL contender, he is gonna show up.

That is what everyone said when he got traded to the Nets who had recently gone to the Finals twice in a row...

theuuord
07-21-2009, 04:30 PM
That is what everyone said when he got traded to the Nets who had recently gone to the Finals twice in a row...

In a weak Eastern Conference with Jason Collins starting at center.
That had a lot less to do with Vince Carter and a lot more to do with LeBron James coming into his own, Dwyane Wade doing the same (and getting Shaq in the process), and the Pistons having one of the most well balanced teams in the NBA.

Context is everything.

Grim Reaper
07-21-2009, 04:31 PM
I like the C's to win it. Magic had a magical season where everything went right jumpshooting teams like that don't fair well for Championships. C's will be downright mean on D.:mad:

Exactly! Teams like that never go far in the playoffs. The celtics had them down by 10 in 6 games and choked with no KG. The Magic won't make it to the Eastern Conference Finals guaranteed.

Tony_Starks
07-21-2009, 04:45 PM
In a weak Eastern Conference with Jason Collins starting at center.
That had a lot less to do with Vince Carter and a lot more to do with LeBron James coming into his own, Dwyane Wade doing the same (and getting Shaq in the process), and the Pistons having one of the most well balanced teams in the NBA.

Context is everything.


Vince has always been a volume scorer. Turk can go 2-11 and still hit the game winner. I'll take Turk's 15 points and the win vs Vince's 35pts in a loss.

theuuord
07-21-2009, 04:51 PM
Vince has always been a volume scorer. Turk can go 2-11 and still hit the game winner. I'll take Turk's 15 points and the win vs Vince's 35pts in a loss.

Vince scores more points per game while using more possessions more efficiently.
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10222913

ARMIN12NBA
07-21-2009, 04:57 PM
In a weak Eastern Conference with Jason Collins starting at center.
That had a lot less to do with Vince Carter and a lot more to do with LeBron James coming into his own, Dwyane Wade doing the same (and getting Shaq in the process), and the Pistons having one of the most well balanced teams in the NBA.

Context is everything.

They were, without a doubt, still a talented bunch. A team with Kidd, Jefferson, and what Carter supposedly brought to the table should have accomplished more. Do you not agree?

Pierzynski4Prez
07-21-2009, 05:01 PM
Celtics (Full Health, especially now with Sheed) and the Lakers would dominate the Magic.

theuuord
07-21-2009, 05:02 PM
They were, without a doubt, still a talented bunch. A team with Kidd, Jefferson, and what Carter supposedly brought to the table should have accomplished more. Do you not agree?

I don't.
They lost to better teams in the playoffs every year, and had no real big man to compete with the star bigs of the NBA.

In 2005 they lost to the Heat, who lost in a 7-game series to the eventual champions. The Heat were definitely a superior team.
In 2006 they lost to the Heat again - the eventual champions.
and in 2007 they lost to the Cavs, when LeBron completely took over the series. I went to every home playoff game in that series. The Cavs were a far better team.
And in 2008 Kidd was gone.

Chronz
07-21-2009, 05:03 PM
They were, without a doubt, still a talented bunch. A team with Kidd, Jefferson, and what Carter supposedly brought to the table should have accomplished more. Do you not agree?

What were your expectations for that team?

ARMIN12NBA
07-21-2009, 05:11 PM
What were your expectations for that team?

That they would consistently win 50 games and make at least the 2nd round...That is not the point though. It is more or less the idea that there was high expectations for Vince Carter to come through, which never came to fruition in New Jersey. Let me put it this way: Do not rely or put your hopes on his shoulders.

BTW--Reply to my PM. :cheers:

8kobe24
07-21-2009, 06:47 PM
We'll see. IF VC still has something left int the tank, then I would say he gives the Magic the go to scorer in crucial situations, but that's a big IF. Even then, I still would not pick them to come out of the east.

mrblisterdundee
07-21-2009, 06:58 PM
They are favorites to win it all because Los Angeles might not re-sign Lamar Odom. If they do, then Orlando's depth is not going to stop the Lakers.

Utahjazzfan18
07-21-2009, 07:13 PM
I think the Celtic's are my favorite to win it all as long as they stay healthy.

Missing56&33
07-21-2009, 08:06 PM
Yes i think they are the favorites to win it all. I do like LA signing Artest too. But I still think VC is one of the best in the game, if he gets to a final hes not losing it. Im think Kobe and Artest gonna have some problems....especially if Phil dont come back.

Drunk Kosar 19
07-21-2009, 08:35 PM
Dwight goes down so do the magic

twoearl
07-21-2009, 08:44 PM
They are the deepest, but not the favorite. They remind me of the Rasheed Trailblazers. IN that they have a lot of good players but no one on this team is great. And that includes Dwight.

good players do not win rings, great players do.

JJ_JKidd
07-21-2009, 08:51 PM
I think its time for people to stop making predictions. I mean, training camp hasnt even started and everyone already has their NBA champions for next season!!!! Sure Orlando has improved (on paper) with their current line-up but does it guarantee anything? A big NONE.

Everyone has the Lakers being champs again, the Magic, Cavs, Spurs etc. But any injuries to those team's star players means bye-bye along with those god d@mn predictions!

Raph12
07-21-2009, 09:12 PM
They are the deepest, but not the favorite. They remind me of the Rasheed Trailblazers. IN that they have a lot of good players but no one on this team is great. And that includes Dwight.

good players do not win rings, great players do.

Lmao, first of all what is your definition of a great player? second, who is that great player on the Pistons of '04 and if you say Billups then leave PSD forever, for Billups is just a standard good pg. Dwight is the best defensive player in the league and only 23 yrs old and already commanding double teams on offense. He's already the best center with Yao out and if his offensive game improves year-in year-out then he'll be the best big man in the NBA for years to come

RLundi
07-21-2009, 09:25 PM
Exactly! Teams like that never go far in the playoffs. The celtics had them down by 10 in 6 games and choked with no KG. The Magic won't make it to the Eastern Conference Finals guaranteed.

Stuart Scott voice: "hater in the house!"

ElMarroAfamado
07-21-2009, 09:41 PM
ill tell you who wont be in the finals hence WONT WIN IT ALL

Celtics
Cavs
Spurs

so please stop talking about them like if any of them are going to make any noise come playoff time

ewing
07-21-2009, 09:47 PM
With the soon-to-be signing of Jeremy Richardson, Matt Barnes and CJ Watson, while still searching for another big, is Orlando the deepest team in the NBA?

PG - Jameer Nelson, CJ Watson, Anthony Johnson
SG - Vince Carter, Mikhael Pietrus, JJ Redick
SF - Rashard Lewis, Matt Barnes, Jeremy Richardson
PF - Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson, ?
C - Dwight Howard, Marcin Gortat

With 4 of the 5 starters current/former allstars and solid role players off the bench, is Orlando also the favorites to win next season?


Is Tony Battier finally retired? A free agent? He maybe 100 but he a fine vet who'll give you some mistake free mins on both sides

bagwell368
07-21-2009, 09:48 PM
It's way to early to vote on this. A couple of days before the season, great. They appear to be top 5-6, but not #1 pending other developments

bagwell368
07-21-2009, 09:51 PM
ill tell you who wont be in the finals hence WONT WIN IT ALL

Celtics
Cavs
Spurs

so please stop talking about them like if any of them are going to make any noise come playoff time

I agree on the Spurs, but the Celts and Cavs are still working out what they have and can do. Short sell them at peril to your own ego.

bostncelts34
07-21-2009, 09:53 PM
Do you realize Ray Allen, P Double and KG play 36-40 minutes a night! and that rate increases tremendously in the playoffs? They will be too drained when the Fantasic 4 (Orlando Magic) comes to town!

Wow, the point of getting sheed and daniels was to give rest to the big 3 players. They will not be playing the minutes they did last year.

Dwight_is_King
07-21-2009, 09:58 PM
who cares? no one was saying they were gonna make it to the finals last offseason. why would you expect it to be any different this year? the magic are probably the most underrated franchise in NBA history! even if they win multiple titles in the Howard/Nelson era.. they wont ever be favorites. never have never will. and it sucks to feel disrespected as a fan, but this group of guys actually feeds off of all the doubters out there. and guys like Bass and Barnes have always been under-the-rader players. lets just all sit back and relax, go on with your lives, wait til the season starts. then you can be a critic.

Raph12
07-21-2009, 09:59 PM
Exactly! Teams like that never go far in the playoffs. 1. The celtics had them down by 10 in 6 games and choked with no KG. 2. The Magic won't make it to the Eastern Conference Finals guaranteed.

Just thinking out loud here, what's it like to make up your own facts?
Game 1 - Boston's largest lead was 2, they were fighting back all game long, Orlando's largest lead was 28
Game 3 - Boston never led all game, not once. Complete and udder domination, Orlando's largest lead was 25
Game 4 - Boston's largest lead was 8, despite only 40% shooting from Orlando they led by 4 at one point and the Magic were up by 1 before Davis' jumper to win the game
Game 5 - Boston's largest lead was 4, which they got as the game ended only because of an intentional foul, Orlando's largest lead was 14
Game 7 - Boston's largest lead was 2 in the opening seconds of the game, Orlando's largest lead was 23

1. Boston had Orlando down by 10 only twice in the series, in game 2 and game 6, I still have no idea where you got six games from. Orlando had dominated the series against Boston basketball-wise but didn't have a real closer to put it away (sorry Turk) When they were up big and couldn't find ways to score, Turk would just chuck up 3s and pray they go in. Now with VC in the lineup, there is a legitimate slasher who could create for himself and others.

2. Isn't that what you guys said last year before old man Garnett went out for the second time with injury. When Pierce, Garnett, Allen or Wallace gets injured this year don't say "Oh but Insert washed up Allstar's name here was injured if we had Insert washed up Allstar's name here you guys were done" Just accept the fact that you guys are old and beyond your time. Now good day sir... I SAID GOOD DAY!

dtmagnet
07-21-2009, 10:08 PM
I do think on paper the Magic are the best team right now, but who knows what can happen in a season. The 8th seed can make it to the finals that's the beauty of sport.

BeantownBill
07-21-2009, 10:21 PM
Funny how your name is Leon Powe is Beast and your Celtics left him out there for the vultures to end his pathetic NBA career. Leon Powe being a beast is "not even close", the mid-30s core of the Celtics team will bring that squad down, whether it happens by injury or just wear-and-tear, that team wont make it past the ECFs. Btw that's a Dwight Howard guarantee not a Mo William's guarantee.

After a Game 5 loss:
Dwight - I guarentee we'll win this series
Reporter - Did you know the Celts are 32-0 after being up 3-2
Dwight - Well I guess we'll just have to make them 32-1

Final Result? 32 and 1 BABY! 32-1

.. and a big fat ***-kicking in the finals against a superior Lakers team. Congrats on being second best. :cool:

dtmagnet
07-21-2009, 10:24 PM
.. and a big fat ***-kicking in the finals against a superior Lakers team. Congrats on being second best. :cool:

Congrats for being tied for 5th best then?

Raph12
07-21-2009, 10:31 PM
.. and a big fat ***-kicking in the finals against a superior Lakers team. Congrats on being second best. :cool:

Thnx bro, feels good to be second best, speaking of second, wasn't your team eliminated in the SECOND round? And weren't you having your a$s handed to you by Chicago, before the refs started making calls in your favor? Conspiracy theory aside - who was it that eliminated your pathetic excuse of a contender team in the SECOND round? oh that's right it was the SECOND best team Orlando. And we got beat in the Finals making us second best, but you got beat in the second round which makes you what? tied for FIFTH I believe and last time I checked second is better than fifth/sixth. :cool:

BeantownBill
07-21-2009, 10:33 PM
Just thinking out loud here, what's it like to make up your own facts?
Game 1 - Boston's largest lead was 2, they were fighting back all game long, Orlando's largest lead was 28
Game 3 - Boston never led all game, not once. Complete and udder domination, Orlando's largest lead was 25
Game 4 - Boston's largest lead was 8, despite only 40% shooting from Orlando they led by 4 at one point and the Magic were up by 1 before Davis' jumper to win the game
Game 5 - Boston's largest lead was 4, which they got as the game ended only because of an intentional foul, Orlando's largest lead was 14
Game 7 - Boston's largest lead was 2 in the opening seconds of the game, Orlando's largest lead was 23

1. Boston had Orlando down by 10 only twice in the series, in game 2 and game 6, I still have no idea where you got six games from. Orlando had dominated the series against Boston basketball-wise but didn't have a real closer to put it away (sorry Turk) When they were up big and couldn't find ways to score, Turk would just chuck up 3s and pray they go in. Now with VC in the lineup, there is a legitimate slasher who could create for himself and others.

2. Isn't that what you guys said last year before old man Garnett went out for the second time with injury. When Pierce, Garnett, Allen or Wallace gets injured this year don't say "Oh but Insert washed up Allstar's name here was injured if we had Insert washed up Allstar's name here you guys were done" Just accept the fact that you guys are old and beyond your time. Now good day sir... I SAID GOOD DAY!

Hahaha .. oh, thank you for this. Complete domination of a cow's nipples. Are you saying the Magic suck in a way NO OTHER TEAM could? :p

BeantownBill
07-21-2009, 10:34 PM
Thnx bro, feels good to be second best, speaking of second, wasn't your team eliminated in the SECOND round? And weren't you having your a$s handed to you by Chicago, before the refs started making calls in your favor? Conspiracy theory aside - who was it that eliminated your pathetic excuse of a contender team in the SECOND round? oh that's right it was the SECOND best team Orlando. And we got beat in the Finals making us second best, but you got beat in the second round which makes you what? tied for FIFTH I believe and last time I checked second is better than fifth/sixth. :cool:

If that's what matters to you, being the best of the rest, it's no wonder you follow a losing squad. Cheers :clap:

Raph12
07-21-2009, 10:40 PM
Hahaha .. oh, thank you for this. Complete domination of a cow's nipples. Are you saying the Magic suck in a way NO OTHER TEAM could? :p

Seriously dude, what are you on, because you need to hook that sh1t up, I want in man


If that's what matters to you, being the best of the rest, it's no wonder you follow a losing squad. Cheers :clap:

Better to be the best of the rest than the best of absolutely nothing at all. Cheers :clap:

BeantownBill
07-21-2009, 10:48 PM
Seriously dude, what are you on, because you need to hook that sh1t up, I want in man



Better to be the best of the rest than the best of absolutely nothing at all. Cheers :clap:

First your grammar sucks, now you make zero sense. What am I on? I think you've already raided my stash. :p

Raph12
07-22-2009, 12:40 AM
First your grammar sucks, now you make zero sense. What am I on? I think you've already raided my stash. :p

Lmao I'm sorry teacher, didn't know my answers were being checked for grammar. Funny you ran out of things to say so now your no longer arguing and just talking about my grammar and as far as grammar goes "make zero sense" is a sentence fragment, maybe you should go back to grade school before editting other people's work

Diehardheatfan
07-22-2009, 01:16 AM
How did we lose most of our shooters? Hedo and Lee? That's most? talk what you know, not what you think! Your opinion doesn't matter! Facts do! So let's see Bass doesn't present a mismatch? Carter doesn't present mismatches? Lewis at the 3 and still the 4 isn't a mismatch? Ryan Anderson's shooting ability doesn't create mismatches? MAtt Barnes with the right line up doesn't create mismatches? wow you people need to watch more ball and pay attention! If anything our shooting has gotten much better!

you sound like a joke. You arent objective. You dont know anything. This is a completely new squad. They wont be as good. Watch. Guaranteed you wont get to the finals again.

Diehardheatfan
07-22-2009, 01:19 AM
1. Lakers
2.Celtics/Cavs
4. Magic

The real reason Orlando beat Cleveland was that Cleveland was constantly having to double down on D12 and Orlando would swing the ball to the open corner. If Shaq is half of what he was last season, that problem is completely gone. D12 can still go for 50% from the field with just Shaq guarding him, but Cleveland will be able to protect the perimeter. Last year, if they were to leave just Z on D12, he would have gone for 75%-99% from the field so they doubled down and decided to let Orlando live and die by the three. Orlando lived, LeBron didn't shake and the rest is history.

Exactly. Actually the spurs will be better than the magic as well. They are not done making moves

Raph12
07-22-2009, 01:32 AM
you sound like a joke. You arent objective. You dont know anything. This is a completely new squad. They wont be as good. Watch. Guaranteed you wont get to the finals again.

Your right this is a COMPLETELY new squad, but who are you to say they won't be as good. On paper their better, on the court who knows, but for you to say "they won't be as good" proves that "you don't know anything" and making guarantees before the season has begun is strong words, let's just hope you don't recreate some "Mo Williams" magic. No one is saying they'll repeat as EC Champs, we are just saying that the way the team is looking on paper are they the favs, you don't have to insult others opinions. Why don't you focus on your team getting past the 1st round and trying to beg Wade to stay, then come critisize teams that are actually contending.

Puerto_Rican
07-22-2009, 04:49 AM
The Orlando Magic team right now is sick, they got like the perfect team, with the addition of Vince Carter they're gonna be so dominant. I have read so many things in here about Hedo being more efficient than VINCE??? man u gotta be kidding me, Vince has all the package you want on a star but he has been with mediocre players his entire carreer, now he has the opportunity to win a ring with this awesome team and i say right now the Orlando Magic are going to the nba finals again if healthy, they are better than Boston but watch out for the celts too and Cleveland will be so weak this year so Cavs fans don't get ur hopes high......

theuuord
07-22-2009, 12:09 PM
Hahaha .. oh, thank you for this. Complete domination of a cow's nipples. Are you saying the Magic suck in a way NO OTHER TEAM could? :p

you have the intellectual capacity of the person in your avatar.

let's talk about the games.

Just thinking out loud here, what's it like to make up your own facts?
Game 1 - Boston's largest lead was 2, they were fighting back all game long, Orlando's largest lead was 28
Game 3 - Boston never led all game, not once. Complete and utter domination, Orlando's largest lead was 25
Game 4 - Boston's largest lead was 8, despite only 40% shooting from Orlando they led by 4 at one point and the Magic were up by 1 before Davis' jumper to win the game
Game 5 - Boston's largest lead was 4, which they got as the game ended only because of an intentional foul, Orlando's largest lead was 14
Game 7 - Boston's largest lead was 2 in the opening seconds of the game, Orlando's largest lead was 23

twoearl
07-22-2009, 01:24 PM
Lmao, first of all what is your definition of a great player? second, who is that great player on the Pistons of '04 and if you say Billups then leave PSD forever, for Billups is just a standard good pg. Dwight is the best defensive player in the league and only 23 yrs old and already commanding double teams on offense. He's already the best center with Yao out and if his offensive game improves year-in year-out then he'll be the best big man in the NBA for years to come

Great player is someone who will be in the Hall of Fame one day. And i knew someone would bring up that 04 pistons team. Yes they won, but that will NEVER EVER happen again. That year they caught the Lakers at great time. This was the year shaq and kobe were darn near fist fighting in the locker room, karl malone was hurt and gary payton was 55 years old. And Rasheed Wallace actually got in the post for a change.

Orlando can add all the past their prime stars, great role players, athletic wing players they want but if Dwight doesnt come back with some offensive game where teams have to double him every time then they will not win a thing.

if you watched the finals, the reason the Lakers won was because Pau and Bynum needed little to no help defending him in the post.

rapjuicer06
07-22-2009, 02:07 PM
Great player is someone who will be in the Hall of Fame one day. And i knew someone would bring up that 04 pistons team. Yes they won, but that will NEVER EVER happen again. That year they caught the Lakers at great time. This was the year shaq and kobe were darn near fist fighting in the locker room, karl malone was hurt and gary payton was 55 years old. And Rasheed Wallace actually got in the post for a change.

Orlando can add all the past their prime stars, great role players, athletic wing players they want but if Dwight doesnt come back with some offensive game where teams have to double him every time then they will not win a thing.

if you watched the finals, the reason the Lakers won was because Pau and Bynum needed little to no help defending him in the post.

i agree with you, and disagree at the same time. i agree that dwight needs to learn some more offense or else the magic are going to have a repeat of last year. but bynum couldn't guard dwight, he was always in foul trouble. and for some reason gasol got away with every flop imiginable. and the lakers doubled/tripled down on dwight quite often. but whatever they did worked perfectly, they played great all around game on defense and offense

KnicksDynasty11
07-22-2009, 02:13 PM
Hmmm I can't remember what year but didn't have like 6 or 7 allstars on their time at one point in the past, I think they were competitive but alot looks good on paper. Every team can't be the boston celtics and make drastic moves with big names and have it pay off that same year. Just my opinion, it rarely happens, but I'm not saying I wouldn't pick em in NBA 2k9 or live lol

rhymeratic
07-22-2009, 02:23 PM
I'm not reading all the pages but they have a nice squad. They're not "deep" like some other teams but in the eastern conference it's a good look. They need a better PG and PF. Honestly, they are that one team that SHOULD have went for A.I.

rapjuicer06
07-22-2009, 03:04 PM
I'm not reading all the pages but they have a nice squad. They're not "deep" like some other teams but in the eastern conference it's a good look. They need a better PG and PF. Honestly, they are that one team that SHOULD have went for A.I.

hahaha seriously?? not deep??

howard-gortat
bass-anderson
lewis-barnes
carter-pietrus-jj???
nelson-watson???-johnson

the second string could be a starting team for some people....yea, there pretty deep

Raph12
07-22-2009, 04:15 PM
Great player is someone who will be in the Hall of Fame one day. And i knew someone would bring up that 04 pistons team. Yes they won, but that will NEVER EVER happen again. That year they caught the Lakers at great time. This was the year shaq and kobe were darn near fist fighting in the locker room, karl malone was hurt and gary payton was 55 years old. And Rasheed Wallace actually got in the post for a change.

Orlando can add all the past their prime stars, great role players, athletic wing players they want but if Dwight doesnt come back with some offensive game where teams have to double him every time then they will not win a thing.

if you watched the finals, the reason the Lakers won was because Pau and Bynum needed little to no help defending him in the post.

Dwight Howard will without a doubt be in the Hall of Fame at the end of his career, even if he never gets better offensively, a 21pts, 14rebs and 3blks player who led his team to the finals and will win DPY over and over will be in the HOF. So there goes your arguement, Orlando has a great player even by your definition.

Didn't know you could tell the future, what's tomorrow's lotto 64/9 numbers?

Btw doesn't matter Sheed still isn't a HOF player and never will be.

Yeah he needs to work on his offensive game, but even more so he needs to work on his ball handling and passing out of double/triple teams.

Dwight is doubled more than any center in the game including Yao and Shaq and if you watched the Finals you'd know that Bynum spent most of the Finals on the bench with foul trouble and Gasol got every charging call possible, Lebron drives with his shoulder down all day, all night but when is he called for an offensive foul? but even with the calls in their favor, LA still continued to double and triple team Dwight all Finals long.

Dwight is 23 and only getting better, the only significant player on the Magic lineup over 30 is Carter, 32. So this team is young and talented and they have years to win a championship so do everyone a favor and stop selling them short

Optimus Prime15
07-23-2009, 09:01 PM
you sound like a joke. You arent objective. You dont know anything. This is a completely new squad. They wont be as good. Watch. Guaranteed you wont get to the finals again.

I guarantee your heat/cool won't make the Finals again! Fall back!

Optimus Prime15
07-23-2009, 09:09 PM
1. Lakers
2.Celtics/Cavs
4. Magic

The real reason Orlando beat Cleveland was that Cleveland was constantly having to double down on D12 and Orlando would swing the ball to the open corner. If Shaq is half of what he was last season, that problem is completely gone. D12 can still go for 50% from the field with just Shaq guarding him, but Cleveland will be able to protect the perimeter. Last year, if they were to leave just Z on D12, he would have gone for 75%-99% from the field so they doubled down and decided to let Orlando live and die by the three. Orlando lived, LeBron didn't shake and the rest is history.

How do you sound you corn muffin! Isn't that what the game is about! Exploit your opponents weakness and do what it takes to win! It's not our fault D12 was too much for your soft *** wanna be tough front court! and if Shaq is half of what he was last season ya'll are in for a long road to the 5 or 6 spot! LOL! Did you see how Shaq was trying to flop on D12? Lol come on you can't be serious! If Shaq is half your cavs is history! and so is Lebron because he's outta there! Go on, go on! (Jim Carrey voice)

elpirata224
07-23-2009, 09:28 PM
Dwight goes down so do the magic

I don't think so have you heard of a man by the name Marcin Gortat the Polish Hammer?? :cool: well if you haven't let me tell you this he got 14 boards and 12 points while clinching the series Vs. The 76er's a defensive force with talent everywhere to help him out

elpirata224
07-23-2009, 09:38 PM
you sound like a joke. You arent objective. You dont know anything. This is a completely new squad. They wont be as good. Watch. Guaranteed you wont get to the finals again.

your team lost in the first round
i Guarantee the heat won't make it anywhere even with Boozer

Tommyh1331
07-23-2009, 09:49 PM
Hell yeah, no need for him anymore if we sign Barnes, JJ can't play NBA basketball. Everytime he is on the court he always looks like he is nervous. This season he has looked better though, he gets some nice passes. I rather have Watson then him though...anyday.

Sick Sig man!:clap:

Tommyh1331
07-23-2009, 10:00 PM
you sound like a joke. You arent objective. You dont know anything. This is a completely new squad. They wont be as good. Watch. Guaranteed you wont get to the finals again.

A Joke is someone who guarentees the future^^^^If the guy really knew nothing, well then he couldn't argue with a guy who claims to know everything like...you! You sound a little angry, bitter even...Has it been the Magic str8 owning the Heat the past 3 years?? Get Boozer, Magic still own that *****

FairWeatherFan?
07-24-2009, 01:22 PM
How do you sound you corn muffin! Isn't that what the game is about! Exploit your opponents weakness and do what it takes to win! It's not our fault D12 was too much for your soft *** wanna be tough front court! and if Shaq is half of what he was last season ya'll are in for a long road to the 5 or 6 spot! LOL! Did you see how Shaq was trying to flop on D12? Lol come on you can't be serious! If Shaq is half your cavs is history! and so is Lebron because he's outta there! Go on, go on! (Jim Carrey voice)


The maturity of Magic fans is astounding. Wait til this time next year and ask Dwight how Shaq's *** taste. :cool:

FairWeatherFan?
07-24-2009, 01:29 PM
The Orlando Magic team right now is sick, they got like the perfect team, with the addition of Vince Carter they're gonna be so dominant. I have read so many things in here about Hedo being more efficient than VINCE??? man u gotta be kidding me, Vince has all the package you want on a star but he has been with mediocre players his entire carreer, now he has the opportunity to win a ring with this awesome team and i say right now the Orlando Magic are going to the nba finals again if healthy, they are better than Boston but watch out for the celts too and Cleveland will be so weak this year so Cavs fans don't get ur hopes high......

How do you figure? Cleveland will be returning the same starting 5 + Shaq and a deeper bench than last year. Orlando will be adjusting too two new starters and a completely different style of play.

Raph12
07-24-2009, 01:33 PM
The maturity of Magic fans is astounding. Wait til this time next year and ask Dwight how Shaq's *** taste. :cool:

Dude the fact that you think Shaq can get the better of Dwight is just silly, yes he will make it a little bit more difficult but Dwight is still took quick and will oust Shaq easily.

And with regards to your lame comment; maybe you should ask Shaq right now on twitter how Dwight's *** looks from the floor after the real Superman jammed all over Shaq's fat ***

theuuord
07-24-2009, 01:35 PM
How do you figure? Cleveland will be returning the same starting 5 + Shaq and a deeper bench than last year. Orlando will be adjusting too two new starters and a completely different style of play.

Adjusting to two new starters? You mean like the Celtics did when they acquired Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett a couple years ago?

How'd that work out for them?

Raph12
07-24-2009, 01:40 PM
How do you figure? Cleveland will be returning the same starting 5 + Shaq and a deeper bench than last year. Orlando will be adjusting too two new starters and a completely different style of play.

Now this is a more mature arguement, Shaq meshing with the Cavs is going to take alot more time than Carter meshing with the Magic. Shaq only knows how to play one way, his whole life he's played one style and in the recent few years that's cost each team he's played for because he's too old, too slow and stubborn. Carter played amazingly last year, taking a secondary seat to Devin Harris, just so Harris can grow as a player. Carter is a proven unselfish player, I can't say the same for Shaq. Yes I like the Cavs bench more this season, but Orlando's bench easily trumps that bench. Btw the Magic can still play the same style they did last year, they have better 3pt shooters this year, so they can go back to the inside-outside game with Dwight and be even more successful

JordansBulls
07-26-2009, 10:49 PM
hahaha seriously?? not deep??

howard-gortat
bass-anderson
lewis-barnes
carter-pietrus-jj???
nelson-watson???-johnson

the second string could be a starting team for some people....yea, there pretty deep

That 2nd string is not that good.

rifleman
07-26-2009, 11:03 PM
vince is definitely an upgrade for this team. vince is a superstar he's gonna play with an extra chip on his shoulders.look out for vc to play his best basketball as a magic.

aman_13
07-26-2009, 11:09 PM
They will be tough to beat.

Iceberg_Slim
08-02-2009, 10:36 PM
I think the magic are deeper this year, their bench is looking great I mean anyone on the bench can do something. JJ redick has only been in the NBA 2-3 years he will get better in the long run he just needs to get some extra confidence, I believe we need to hold him for sure. Most likely we'll trade for Mcgrady whenever he's eligible to get traded, We will use the trade exception we got from the turkoglu deal and ship off gortat and get Mcgrady in return so we'll be even more stacked and dangerous, Well that's how I see all this playing out,, Only time will tell.

RLundi
08-02-2009, 10:51 PM
I think the magic are deeper this year, their bench is looking great I mean anyone on the bench can do something. JJ redick has only been in the NBA 2-3 years he will get better in the long run he just needs to get some extra confidence, I believe we need to hold him for sure. Most likely we'll trade for Mcgrady whenever he's eligible to get traded, We will use the trade exception we got from the turkoglu deal and ship off gortat and get Mcgrady in return so we'll be even more stacked and dangerous, Well that's how I see all this playing out,, Only time will tell.

With all due respect...are you on Coke?? This will NEVER happen.

Byronicle
08-02-2009, 10:58 PM
i feel they are more balanced now that Rashard Lewis is playing his natural position at the 3 and they got a good SG named VC who can drive, shoot, handle the ball and dish out assist to address the lost of Hedo Turkoglu, a real PF who can play the post and take mid-range jumpshots and defend, and if Jameer stays healthy i dont see why they could not make it real deep in the playoffs, are they the favourites to win? Well Lakers got pretty stacked with the addition of Ron Artest and keeping Odom...so no they still won't be but they definitely do have a better chance of winning it than Boston, Cleveland however has Shaq and if he can play the way he did in Phoenix, Cleveland could really avenge their lost to the Magic

JJ81
08-02-2009, 11:01 PM
They're worse than they were last season.

Byronicle
08-02-2009, 11:03 PM
That 2nd string is not that good.

C.J. was pretty good for the Thunder being a good natural PG and Anderson was a big man coveted by NJ for his long range shooting, Pietrus is a excellent defender, look what he did to Lebron and Matt Barnes is a good all around player who even played the 4 in the playoffs for GS. They still have a decent veteran Battie backup the PF/C position

magichatnumber9
08-02-2009, 11:08 PM
Remember Marbury and Isaiah . Well now its Vince and Coach pornstar. Yeah its gonna get bad because Vince is Home. hahahaha. And Howard will get a blood clot in the head from impersonating coach ron jeremy

GeorgeMcCloud21
08-02-2009, 11:13 PM
Definately the deepest backcourt

tp13baby
08-02-2009, 11:14 PM
I don't get why people don't think VC is an upgrade over Turk.

You all will see, VC gets the chance to play for a REAL contender, he is gonna show up.

turk rebounds scores and can handle the ball

1WorthyLakerFan
08-03-2009, 12:17 AM
turk rebounds scores and can handle the ball

Plus Turk shoots a better percentage, is a better passer, and is more of a team player. Vince has been on some pretty good teams and has never won. It is not a coincidence. He honestly makes those around him worse not better...where as Turk makes those around him better.

I think getting Barnes is a nice addition, and with getting Jameer back and sliding Rashard over to the 3 they are going to be a better team (and a tougher matchup for most teams), but it will not be because of Vince.

Matter of fact I think the Lakers will have an even easier time beating this time now, because it was Turk that gave them the toughest time.

leftymo
08-03-2009, 12:23 AM
Orlando is a title contender, but the favorites as of right now are the Los Angeles Lakers.

Boston is 2nd.

I run NY
08-03-2009, 12:25 AM
Portland has a better 2nd string then orlando

Bayless
Fernandez
Outlaw/Batum
Claver [Rookie out of Spain]
Oden/Przybilla

1WorthyLakerFan
08-03-2009, 12:28 AM
Portland has a better 2nd string then orlando

Bayless
Fernandez
Outlaw/Batum
Claver [Rookie out of Spain]
Oden/Przybilla

Too True...it is not even close really. Orlando's second unit is average in my mind. Portland's second unit is one that you have to game plan for. Maybe the best in the league.

1WorthyLakerFan
08-03-2009, 12:32 AM
vince is definitely an upgrade for this team. vince is a superstar he's gonna play with an extra chip on his shoulders.look out for vc to play his best basketball as a magic.

:confused: With two bad knees, and a shot that is as inconsistent as ever. If you are banking on Vince having his best year as a pro this next year, you are going to be sorely dissapointed. Just remember that it is not Vince's fault that you put unrealistic expectations on him.

theuuord
08-03-2009, 12:34 AM
:confused: With two bad knees, and a shot that is as inconsistent as ever. If you are banking on Vince having his best year as a pro this next year, you are going to be sorely dissapointed. Just remember that it is not Vince's fault that you put unrealistic expectations on him.

two bad knees? a shot that's as inconsistent as ever? did you watch Vince Carter at all this year?

1WorthyLakerFan
08-03-2009, 12:54 AM
two bad knees? a shot that's as inconsistent as ever? did you watch Vince Carter at all this year?

Yes I did...but I don't only need my personal opinions to prove my point. In the last 5 years:
[LIST=1] Only 1 year did he shoot a worse percentage (2005), but it was not a lot worse 43.7 compared to 43.0.
[LIST=2] He had the worst rebounding numbers
[LIST=3] He had the worst year for free throw attempts
[LIST=4] He had the lowest point total
[LIST=5] He had the lowest number of steals

Certainly seems like a guy primed to have the best year of his career, especially after 12 years in the league.

"During the pregame show for TNT's broadcast of the Nets-Warriors game on Thursday, studio analyst Magic Johnson said Carter's "knees are gone" and that he's no longer one of the top players in the league. Charles Barkley, also in the studio, agreed.

Given a chance to clarify his remarks at halftime, Johnson swung even harder.

"He's not the superstar he used to be," said Johnson. "Vince Carter used to be a player who gave you three or four highlight plays every night."



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nets/2008/01/26/2008-01-26_nets_fall_to_nuggets_lose_8th_straight.html#ixz z0N5mwU0RF

Again, don't blame VC for unrealistic expectations. He is what he is. A good player (former great player) who is on the decline and is going to try and give it everything he's got for Orlando. Just what he's got isn'g what it used to be.

I'm not hatin...I am just livin in reality.

theuuord
08-03-2009, 01:20 AM
Yes I did...but I don't only need my personal opinions to prove my point. In the last 5 years:

Only 1 year did he shoot a worse percentage (2005), but it was not a lot worse 43.7 compared to 43.0.

His overall field goal percentage was down because he took more three point attempts. His overall offensive efficiency (112 points produced per 100 possessions) was his highest ever as a Net.


[LIST=2] He had the worst rebounding numbers

Barely, because he was playing with a decent enough big man for the first time in his career, who took a significant amount of rebounds away from the rest of the team.
But his numbers were essentially the same.


[LIST=3] He had the worst year for free throw attempts

Again, because he's taking more threes. It's also nice that you neglect the fact that it was his best year for free throw percentage as a Net - and, while we're at it, in his career.
Not really something I'd forget if I was living in reality.


[LIST=4] He had the lowest point total

With his highest efficiency.


[LIST=5] He had the lowest number of steals

He had the same amount two years ago, when he played just as many games.

Seriously, that's a really weak list. You can cherry-pick five stats for pretty much any player, and even the ones you use don't tell any story whatsoever.

Also, that article you listed? Wasn't even from this past season. It was from 2008.

So much for living in reality.

Kobe4Life
08-03-2009, 01:38 AM
This thread is in the wrong place should be in comedy.

SeoulBeatz
08-03-2009, 01:49 AM
:confused: With two bad knees, and a shot that is as inconsistent as ever. If you are banking on Vince having his best year as a pro this next year, you are going to be sorely dissapointed. Just remember that it is not Vince's fault that you put unrealistic expectations on him.

what the **** are u talking about?

i saw a lot of net games last year (living in queens) and vince looked as good as ever.

he just flew under the radar because the nets were mediocre.

hater much?

Raps18-19 Champ
08-03-2009, 01:51 AM
No.

I think Gortat and Bass are over rated so that takes away their front court but whatever.

agnine
08-03-2009, 02:38 AM
Carter , Bass and Barnes = not better than Turkey Glue and Lee.

Turkey Glue was your most clutch/versatile player and Lee is soon to be a boss in the league.

he hit a couple game winners that were nice. but VC has been in the top 5 in game winners since he got in the league and remains there. Lee is good and MIGHT be a battier type, but don't pin him as a superstar until he shows.

agnine
08-03-2009, 03:02 AM
They are the deepest, but not the favorite. They remind me of the Rasheed Trailblazers. IN that they have a lot of good players but no one on this team is great. And that includes Dwight.

good players do not win rings, great players do.

tell that to the 04 Pistons

1WorthyLakerFan
08-06-2009, 10:49 AM
His overall field goal percentage was down because he took more three point attempts. His overall offensive efficiency (112 points produced per 100 possessions) was his highest ever as a Net.

Who cares about possessions? When looking at a players offensive efficiencies you look at home many points they score per shot attempt. Last Year VC was at 1.238 points per attempt. 08 He was at 1.26, then 1.29, 1.26, 1.27, and 1.04 for 07, 06, 05, and 04 respectively. So his offensive efficiency was the worst since 2004.

Barely, because he was playing with a decent enough big man for the first time in his career, who took a significant amount of rebounds away from the rest of the team.
But his numbers were essentially the same.

So are you saying that last year he was playing with the best big man that he has ever played with. I am not sure that Brook Lopez is better than Charles Oakley, but whatever.
Again, because he's taking more threes. It's also nice that you neglect the fact that it was his best year for free throw percentage as a Net - and, while we're at it, in his career.
Not really something I'd forget if I was living in reality.

:confused: OK so you are going to judge a person's ability to have their best year as a pro based on their free throw percentage? He did take more three's in 2009 than 2008, but not more than 2007, and not the most that he has ever taken in his career. I do agree though that when a player's skills deminish they do take more three's because it is more difficult to score in other ways. To his credit though, he did shoot a decent percentage (not the highest percentage in his career, but pretty good by NBA standards).

With his highest efficiency.

Not with his highest efficeincy!!!

He had the same amount two years ago, when he played just as many games.

Seriously, that's a really weak list. You can cherry-pick five stats for pretty much any player, and even the ones you use don't tell any story whatsoever.
I didn't cherry pick, I am thinking scoring, rebounding, steals, FG %, and free throw attempts is a pretty good indicator of where a player is at. Rather than criticize my list, how about you come up with your own list. Go ahead pick 5 key areas that you think are an indicator of whether a player is on the decline, or incline, and try and prove your point with stats. I imagine that you will find it pretty difficult to do (I summize that you won't)
Also, that article you listed? Wasn't even from this past season. It was from 2008. The article was from 2008 when VC's numbers were even better then. So I am assuming that you are implying that a players knees can be shot in 2008 and miracuously get better in 2009, while his numbers are still getting worse. I guess that could happen.

So much for living in reality.

I am not hatin on VC or Orlando. I am a big fan of both. I used to own land in Deland, FL and have always loved the Orlando area and the team. So I don't have any personal vendettas or anything. I am just thinking that the likelihood of VC having his best season ever next year is a break from reality. I am not sure that there are too many (reasonable) people looking at it from the outside who would disagree. You are welcome to your opinions, and if you want to put a wager on it I am more than happy to oblige.

Thanks for the response and for at least taking the time to support what you believe.

IndiansFan337
08-06-2009, 10:56 AM
Orlando & LAL are the two deepest teams in the NBA.

ko8e24
08-06-2009, 11:32 AM
tell that to the 04 Pistons

i guess u can put chauncey billups into the future HOF group????

theuuord
08-06-2009, 12:32 PM
Who cares about possessions? When looking at a players offensive efficiencies you look at home many points they score per shot attempt. Last Year VC was at 1.238 points per attempt. 08 He was at 1.26, then 1.29, 1.26, 1.27, and 1.04 for 07, 06, 05, and 04 respectively. So his offensive efficiency was the worst since 2004.

That's one of the most basic ways to look at efficiency I've ever heard, because it ONLY takes scoring into account, and doesn't even take the entirety of scoring into account (free throw attempts).

What you'd want to use here (if you're solely valuing scoring) is true shooting percentage, which has remained essentially identical the last four years.

But then again, asking "who cares about possessions" is kind of indicative of the kind of person I'm talking to here. The entire game of basketball is a game of possessions.




So are you saying that last year he was playing with the best big man that he has ever played with. I am not sure that Brook Lopez is better than Charles Oakley, but whatever.

Brook Lopez last year was better than a 37 year old Charles Oakley, but that's not even the comparison. I said that last year was his first year as a Net that he was playing with a competent rebounding big man. He got less rebounds because Brook Lopez took some of the ones that the big men of the past should have had.

You essentially replace Jason Collins and a mish mash of big men with Brook Lopez, and the rest of the individuals on the team are going to see a dip in rebound rate across the board.



OK so you are going to judge a person's ability to have their best year as a pro based on their free throw percentage? He did take more three's in 2009 than 2008, but not more than 2007, and not the most that he has ever taken in his career. I do agree though that when a player's skills deminish they do take more three's because it is more difficult to score in other ways. To his credit though, he did shoot a decent percentage (not the highest percentage in his career, but pretty good by NBA standards).

And how are you judging that he had his worst year and saying he's finished because he took a few less free throw attempts? A whole fifteen less from the year before?

He's adjusting his game as his body adjusts, and it's working out very well for him.


Not with his highest efficeincy!!!

Research offensive rating. It'll do you some good.


I didn't cherry pick, I am thinking scoring, rebounding, steals, FG %, and free throw attempts is a pretty good indicator of where a player is at. Rather than criticize my list, how about you come up with your own list. Go ahead pick 5 key areas that you think are an indicator of whether a player is on the decline, or incline, and try and prove your point with stats. I imagine that you will find it pretty difficult to do (I summize that you won't)

There are no benchmark statistics because everyone is trying to value different things.
That being said, using ANY of the statistics you used without putting them in any sort of context is ludicrous. Using points per game without considering efficiency or team context is ludicrous. Using rebounds without considering team rebounding is ludicrous. Using steals without considering steal rate (in which the difference from this year and his best years is as minimal as minimal gets) is ludicrous. Using FG% without translating it for threes (and free throws) is ludicrous. Using free throw attempts to judge a player's entire worth when he's making them at a career-high mark is ludicrous.



So I am assuming that you are implying that a players knees can be shot in 2008 and miracuously get better in 2009, while his numbers are still getting worse. I guess that could happen.

His numbers are not getting worse, and if you were actually paying attention to his numbers you'd understand that.
Who cares what Magic Johnson thinks about a player's knees? Is he a doctor? Does he work under James Andrews?

Vince Carter has played more regular season games in the past four years than Kevin Garnett, even if Garnett had played all 82 games this season.
Think about that for a second, then talk to me about durability.



I am not hatin on VC or Orlando. I am a big fan of both. I used to own land in Deland, FL and have always loved the Orlando area and the team. So I don't have any personal vendettas or anything. I am just thinking that the likelihood of VC having his best season ever next year is a break from reality. I am not sure that there are too many (reasonable) people looking at it from the outside who would disagree. You are welcome to your opinions, and if you want to put a wager on it I am more than happy to oblige.

Thanks for the response and for at least taking the time to support what you believe.

No one thinks he's going to have the best season ever next year. (Seriously, what's with all the straw man arguments in the last couple of weeks? Are people realizing their arguments don't work and then inventing random counter-arguments to look smarter?) But to assert that Carter is "shot" - or that last year was the worst season of his career - makes absolutely no sense when you pay attention either subjectively or objectively to the games or the data.

You're not going to get Vince Carter of 2001. Nobody thinks that, either. What you are going to get is a legitimately great shooting guard. And Magic fans should be ecstatic about it.

TheMicrowave
08-06-2009, 12:46 PM
Magic are one of the favorites to win it all.

Lakers, Cavs, and Celtics are favorites too. Some also believe the Spurs, Mavs, and Portland are too.

I think by 1/4 of the way through the season or maybe half way... the world will have it down to 3-4 teams instead of 6-7.