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View Full Version : Is ESPN overrating Roy Halladay



kswissdaf
07-17-2009, 10:55 AM
They are saying whoever acquires this guy is immediately the favorite of their division/league. How can 1 pitcher completely change a team???

Sportfan
07-17-2009, 10:57 AM
It's funny how Halladay used to be underrated by ESPN

Slaps
07-17-2009, 10:58 AM
If it's a team that already has a few good pitchers adding him would be the difference between 2nd place and 1st place. But they have said this before and it did not turn out that way.

brandonwarne52
07-17-2009, 10:58 AM
Grit, toughness, the fact that he pitched in Canada for so long.

Raidaz4Life
07-17-2009, 10:58 AM
I actually agree and disagree.... I agree Halladay is slightly overrated but at the same time divisions are so close at this point that all it takes is one dominant pitcher to turn the tables.

Rattlehead2006
07-17-2009, 11:06 AM
They're short on stories and he's the biggest name on the block right now. Just like Sabathia and Teixeira in the offseason, Halladay is being blown up to something bigger than he actually is worth (although I definitely think he is better than Sabathia). In the case of Sabathia and Teixeira, they were the products of being the biggest names available at the time, thus overrating their actual value.

Mase37
07-17-2009, 11:07 AM
Look at what CC did. Its possible for teams who can hit

papirico52
07-17-2009, 11:11 AM
its true men look at the possible trading teams they are all contenders in tight divisions a pitcher like him would make the difference

torontosports10
07-17-2009, 11:12 AM
Well lets see.

If the Cards get him they are the favs in the NL Central. If the Phillies get him he becomes the Ace they need id say make them the fav. If the Dodgers get him its game over. Giants would have an unbeatable 3 in him tim and cain.

In the AL, The sox or Yanks getting him would push either into the favorite. The Angels or Rangers same thing. And noteam in the central is rreally going for him.

So to be honest what they said is right. Whatever team that is interested in him and gets him would be the favorite in their division.

MarkieMark48
07-17-2009, 11:14 AM
He's easily one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball. What ESPN is true if he gets traded to a team thats in contention

Put him at the front of the rotation of all the teams that seem to be interested in him, then ask yourself how good their 5 man rotation looks, and their playoff rotation looks

misterd
07-17-2009, 11:16 AM
Grit, toughness, the fact that he pitched in Canada for so long.

But he won't be able to pitch metric anymore. Expect his velocity to plumment. ;)

We have what? 70 games left? That means he'll toss about 14 if he stays healthy. Odds are good a couple of those games will be won or lost no matter who is on the mound. But if he knocks a weak starter off a team, he could maybe add 5-7 wins to the total (more if he goes on a tear, less if he craps out or gets hurt, but I'm just going with the probable result). This year, that is almost certainly enough to keep most 1st place teams in 1st, and move many 2nd place teams into first or WC contention.

BALLER71
07-17-2009, 11:18 AM
He's good but ESPN keeps saying that whatever team acquires him, they will win their division.

MarkieMark48
07-17-2009, 11:20 AM
He's good but ESPN keeps saying that whatever team acquires him, they will win their division.

I think they would be the favorite

Dark Donnie
07-17-2009, 11:21 AM
He's good but ESPN keeps saying that whatever team acquires him, they will win their division.

You don't think so?

If a team like The Phils or Cards got him they would probably take their divisions with ease

Zaunnie
07-17-2009, 11:22 AM
You can't overrate the best pitcher in baseball

Pinstripe pride
07-17-2009, 11:28 AM
I think off the teams talking about trading for him, who ever gets him could become the world series favorite. He make sshort post season series more easy to manage, and is the best pitcher in baseball. He can instantly turn a team into a contender for the WS, so no he is not overrated.

DodgersFanFor23
07-17-2009, 11:28 AM
Halladay is not overrated if anything he is underrated. If he were to be acquired by any team, he will most likely win you at least 10 games. Not a lot of pitchers can be counted on like that. For some teams that's enough to make the playoffs.

miller74
07-17-2009, 11:37 AM
Look at what CC did. Its possible for teams who can hit

Ya espeically since Roy better then CC. Its a great feeling for a team to have a guy that will give u a great chance to win every fifth day. and a mental strain on other teams facing doc that they better not give up more then 2 runs or they will probably lose

miller74
07-17-2009, 11:38 AM
If halladay was playing for a big market team in the US for the last few years people would have been calling him the best pitcher in baseball for the last 5 years and not just this year.

DodgersFanFor23
07-17-2009, 11:43 AM
If halladay was playing for a big market team in the US for the last few years people would have been calling him the best pitcher in baseball for the last 5 years and not just this year.

Exactly this guy is so dominant and almost every start he gives you 7 innings with less than 3 earned runs.

scottythegreat1
07-17-2009, 11:43 AM
As Blue Jays fan, knowing that Halladay is pitching is almost a guaranteed win in my eyes. Of course he isnt perfect, but he is the next best thing.

I have watched Roy Halladay pitch for years, I dont want him to leave Toronto, and I doubt that he will leave Toronto. The Blue Jays arent going to be giving him away, and he also has a full no trade clause, so he will want to be with a contender. We would want the entire farm system of another team just to get Halladay away from us, either that or we dump Vernon Wells and his monster salary off on you (4 years and 105 million remaining).

JOSKOMANG4
07-17-2009, 11:51 AM
1. Dodgers- already best team in baseball. If they acquire Halladay.. their the Legitimate winner of the National League.

2. Brewers and Cardinals- All they need is a solid 1 or 2 pitching in the rotation. You put Halladay in that rotation.. they win the NL Central.

3. NL East- Phillies... If they acquire Halladay.. they'll be back in the World Series.

4. Angels- A team full of injuries.. especially in teh rotation.. if they acquire Halladay.. they win the Al West.

4. Rangers- A plethora of young talent on the field and a rotation that is need a solid pitcher to go along with Millwood. YOu add Halladay to that rotation.. they win the AL West against the angels(I'd say Wild card but the any1 in the AL east-- either boston, NY and TB will get that).

5. Twins/White Sox/Tigers- You add Halladay to any of those rotations.. that will decide the AL Central.

6. Rays/Yankees/Red Sox-All three will be in contention for either the AL East or Wild Card. If any of these teams acquire Roy Halladay, you can count that team as a playoff team.

So yeah thats 12 teams....... and Yes Roy Halladay can create this appeal and he can back it up.

* Barrett Belief- The deal breaker for any of these teams acquiring Roy Halladay will be some1 taking Vernon Wells Contract..

Teams that may deal for Wells along with Halladay...

1) Yankees. have the talent to make this deal... and the money especially.

Projected Trade: Wells & Halladay to Toronto in exchange for pitchers: Kennedy, Mcallister, and E. Ramirez; Austin Jackson(OF), AUstin Romine (C), and possibly one the yankees big contracts(possibly Matsui is the odd-one out).

Yankee Lineup: Not in any sig order*

C- Posada
1b- Tex
2b- cano
ss- jeter
3b- arod
LF- Damon
CF- Melky/Gardner
RF- Wells
DH- Swisher

Rotation: CC, Halladay, Burnett, Hughes(push joba back to bullpen), pettitte

Blue Jay Lineup:

C- Barajas/Romine
1b- Overbay/Millar
2b- Hill
SS- Scutaro
3b- Rolen
LF-Lind
CF- A.Jackson
RF- Rios
DH- Matsui

Rotation: Richmond, Cecil, Romero, Kennedy, Mcgowan

2) Rangers might push for Halladay and might even take a big contract of their's- Scott Rolen

Rangers acquire 3b Rolen and Roy Halladay from Blue Jays in exchange for

1B) Chris Davis, OF) Murphy SP's) Holland and Jefferies, C) Max Ramirez.

misterd
07-17-2009, 11:54 AM
The Yankees are more interested in shedding payroll than adding to it (and yes, despite their offseason expenses, they have a lower payroll this year than last, and may knock another 10% off for next year). They could arguably take Halladay, but they will not take another team's dead wood (ie Wells).

Remember, thanks to the luxury tax, the Yanks wouldn't just be paying Well's contact, but his contract + another 40%.

bosox3431
07-17-2009, 12:36 PM
I think saying players are overarted has become pretty overrated. What is there now three threads about some player being overrated?

bosox3431
07-17-2009, 12:41 PM
1. Dodgers- already best team in baseball. If they acquire Halladay.. their the Legitimate winner of the National League.

2. Brewers and Cardinals- All they need is a solid 1 or 2 pitching in the rotation. You put Halladay in that rotation.. they win the NL Central.

3. NL East- Phillies... If they acquire Halladay.. they'll be back in the World Series.

4. Angels- A team full of injuries.. especially in teh rotation.. if they acquire Halladay.. they win the Al West.

4. Rangers- A plethora of young talent on the field and a rotation that is need a solid pitcher to go along with Millwood. YOu add Halladay to that rotation.. they win the AL West against the angels(I'd say Wild card but the any1 in the AL east-- either boston, NY and TB will get that).

5. Twins/White Sox/Tigers- You add Halladay to any of those rotations.. that will decide the AL Central.

6. Rays/Yankees/Red Sox-All three will be in contention for either the AL East or Wild Card. If any of these teams acquire Roy Halladay, you can count that team as a playoff team.

So yeah thats 12 teams....... and Yes Roy Halladay can create this appeal and he can back it up.

* Barrett Belief- The deal breaker for any of these teams acquiring Roy Halladay will be some1 taking Vernon Wells Contract..

Teams that may deal for Wells along with Halladay...

1) Yankees. have the talent to make this deal... and the money especially.

Projected Trade: Wells & Halladay to Toronto in exchange for pitchers: Kennedy, Mcallister, and E. Ramirez; Austin Jackson(OF), AUstin Romine (C), and possibly one the yankees big contracts(possibly Matsui is the odd-one out).

Yankee Lineup: Not in any sig order*

C- Posada
1b- Tex
2b- cano
ss- jeter
3b- arod
LF- Damon
CF- Melky/Gardner
RF- Wells
DH- Swisher

Rotation: CC, Halladay, Burnett, Hughes(push joba back to bullpen), pettitte

Blue Jay Lineup:

C- Barajas/Romine
1b- Overbay/Millar
2b- Hill
SS- Scutaro
3b- Rolen
LF-Lind
CF- A.Jackson
RF- Rios
DH- Matsui

Rotation: Richmond, Cecil, Romero, Kennedy, Mcgowan

2) Rangers might push for Halladay and might even take a big contract of their's- Scott Rolen

Rangers acquire 3b Rolen and Roy Halladay from Blue Jays in exchange for

1B) Chris Davis, OF) Murphy SP's) Holland and Jefferies, C) Max Ramirez.

Yankees likely wont get Halladay without trading one of Joba/Hughes. Toronto def dont want Kennedy

scottythegreat1
07-17-2009, 01:11 PM
1. Dodgers- already best team in baseball. If they acquire Halladay.. their the Legitimate winner of the National League.


The Dodgers are certainly a good fit for Halladay, and they certainly have the young pitching to trade


2. Brewers and Cardinals- All they need is a solid 1 or 2 pitching in the rotation. You put Halladay in that rotation.. they win the NL Central.


Agreed, the Brewers have been good trading partners for the Blue Jays for years, look for them to try


3. NL East- Phillies... If they acquire Halladay.. they'll be back in the World Series.

Another regular trading partner for the Jays, but they just signed Pedro Martinez, so Halladay might be out of the picture.


4. Angels- A team full of injuries.. especially in teh rotation.. if they acquire Halladay.. they win the Al West.

I would want Joe Saunders plus pitching prospects for this deal to go on. I would have no objection to taking back Kelvim Escobar (with Saunders) with one prospect.


4. Rangers- A plethora of young talent on the field and a rotation that is need a solid pitcher to go along with Millwood. YOu add Halladay to that rotation.. they win the AL West against the angels(I'd say Wild card but the any1 in the AL east-- either boston, NY and TB will get that).

Would Halladay waive his no trade clause to pitching in the hot Texas heat, and a hitters paradise in Arlington?? I wouldnt want to pitch there, I know he idolizes Nolan Ryan, but is that enough???


5. Twins/White Sox/Tigers- You add Halladay to any of those rotations.. that will decide the AL Central.

Agreed, however, the Twins wont take on his salary, and the Jays have had a long history of having a hard time with trading with the White Sox, they dont deal with each other.

The Tigers wouldnt be bad trading partners, I would want Edwin Jackson and pitching prospects....or a blockbuster trade, such as Halladay and Wells for Magglio, Edwin Jackson and two pitching prospects.

6. Rays/Yankees/Red Sox-All three will be in contention for either the AL East or Wild Card. If any of these teams acquire Roy Halladay, you can count that team as a playoff team. [/QUOTE]

JP WILL NOT trade to another AL East team, so thats out.



Rangers might push for Halladay and might even take a big contract of their's- Scott Rolen

Rangers acquire 3b Rolen and Roy Halladay from Blue Jays in exchange for

1B) Chris Davis, OF) Murphy SP's) Holland and Jefferies, C) Max Ramirez.

Not a bad idea, but Michael Young would be a better fit over Chris Davis, but will Young waive his no-trade clause after all the bitterness he has towards Toronto for trading him to the Rangers when he was a minor leaguer just to play with his old friend, Vernon Wells??

Trading Vernon with Halladay to Texas wouldnt be bad, Vernon probably wouldnt object to going to Texas, but how much will Texas want for compensation for his monster salary (4 years and 105 million remaining)??

agoody117
07-17-2009, 01:15 PM
RH is an unbelievable pitcher. There is nothing overrated about him.

bagwell368
07-17-2009, 01:31 PM
You can't overrate the best pitcher in baseball

It's true you can't overrate Johan Santana.... oh you meant Halladay... so sorry, Santana blows him up ever since he became a starter.

REGular
07-17-2009, 01:33 PM
If the Marlins acquired him would they be favorites over the Phillies:

Roy, Halladay, Josh Johnson, Ricky Nolasco, Chris Volstad (if he wasn't included in deal).

The Marlins have popular stud prospects in Morrison & Stanton and still have pitching depth in the minors.

If the Jays would take a deal that starts with Maybin & Volstad (and leaving Stanton & Morrison with the Fish) I could see them making a deal.

This is one team though that doesn't become immediate contenders.

GimmeAD
07-17-2009, 01:34 PM
It's true you can't overrate Johan Santana.... oh you meant Halladay... so sorry, Santana blows him up ever since he became a starter.

No.

T.O. Fan
07-17-2009, 01:44 PM
If Halladay pitched for either New York team, the Dodgers or Red Sox this wouldn't even be a thread....

faridk89
07-17-2009, 01:46 PM
i mean this guy is amazing, 9/10 times he'll win the game for you single handedly, when pitchers pitch a full game normally its a big deal, this guy does it like its nothing, he's not cocky and not a dick....he's awesome

CQSox305
07-17-2009, 01:46 PM
If having him on your team means an additional 5-8 wins in the second half of the season, than he is well worth it. Only knock on Doc is he is 33 probably doesnt have more than 4 solid seasons left in him.

Yanks All Day
07-17-2009, 01:47 PM
It's true you can't overrate Johan Santana.... oh you meant Halladay... so sorry, Santana blows him up ever since he became a starter.

Wrong. Santana may have youth on his side, but Halladay has literally everything else working for him. Halladay is better than Johan.

FLeays
07-17-2009, 02:15 PM
A lot of people forget that bullpens tend to wear down towards the end of the season. Halladay is usually good for at least 7 innings each start and will give the bullpen some rest down the stretch.

a-rod 4 prez
07-17-2009, 02:38 PM
ya, if the nationals get him they will make the playoffs

zambo4president
07-17-2009, 02:40 PM
Its pretty funny actually. Halladay was extremely underrated by ESPN not to long ago and now he is their main talk.

bosox3431
07-17-2009, 02:41 PM
If Halladay pitched for either New York team, the Dodgers or Red Sox this wouldn't even be a thread....

let me direct you to this thread, he's happened to play in NY for 15 years

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386120

Twinke Masta
07-17-2009, 02:48 PM
Take any team that has less than a 5 game lead in their division, put in Roy Halladay and they would probably run away with the division, is what ESPN means I think. but it's ESPN so they suck **** anyday of the week

DJYankee
07-17-2009, 02:53 PM
They are saying whoever acquires this guy is immediately the favorite of their division/league. How can 1 pitcher completely change a team???

Example look at what CC did last year for the Brewers.

Imagine what Doc Halladay can do for your team down the stretch and he is the best pitcher in baseball.

Zmaster52
07-17-2009, 02:54 PM
They are saying whoever acquires this guy is immediately the favorite of their division/league. How can 1 pitcher completely change a team???

I agree, The mets got santana and they were the favorites to win the world series, did they win it? NO! No they did not. this isnt basketball or football, 1 player wont make much of a difference on a team (Unless the player is Pujols:p)

More-Than-Most
07-17-2009, 02:59 PM
If the Phillies get him they become favorites to repeat and maybe even 3peat.

Halladay-Best in baseball
Hamels-Will turn it around and just lights out in playoffs.
Happ-Rookie of the year
Blanton- Really having a good year after a few really bad starts to start the season.
Padro/Moyer.

Put that with the best offense in baseball and a really good pen and its game over.:D

ugafan
07-17-2009, 03:03 PM
It's true you can't overrate Johan Santana.... oh you meant Halladay... so sorry, Santana blows him up ever since he became a starter.

Roy Halladay ***** on Johan Santana.

GHOSTSNIPER
07-17-2009, 03:16 PM
They overrated Michael,Jeter,and Lebron.What's one more gonna hurt?

GHOSTSNIPER
07-17-2009, 03:21 PM
...its "More than most"not "More then most"...get it together.Dodgers offense<Phillies offense.

More-Than-Most
07-17-2009, 03:34 PM
...its "More than most"not "More then most"...get it together.Dodgers offense<Phillies offense.

Yes because your the first one that told me that. Listen genius here are the stats. Statistically Philly is better. Also will take Rollins,Vic,Utley,Howard,Werth,Ibanez,Feliz as a team over your front 7 any day.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team?statType=batting&group=9

yojoe792
07-17-2009, 03:38 PM
They rate him where he should be rated. Youve miss interpreted them. If the pirates land halladay, they are by no means nl contenders. In terms of the teams who COULD land him ( philly, boston, ny) that team is instantly championship favorites. Hes the best.

detroitsports22
07-17-2009, 03:42 PM
Why is it all the sudden a factor that the Jays are not in contention with Halladay as their ace? He has been their "ace" for a while, and they have never really been in contention, it's always Boston and New York, what makes this season different?

JOSKOMANG4
07-17-2009, 03:50 PM
If the Phillies get him they become favorites to repeat and maybe even 3peat.

Halladay-Best in baseball
Hamels-Will turn it around and just lights out in playoffs.
Happ-Rookie of the year
Blanton- Really having a good year after a few really bad starts to start the season.
Padro/Moyer.

Put that with the best offense in baseball and a really good pen and its game over.:D


Phillies won't get Halladay unless they include J.A Happ in the deal.

Talick
07-17-2009, 03:53 PM
They overrated Michael,Jeter,and Lebron.What's one more gonna hurt?

I hope you're not talking about Jordan cuz if so, you lost all your credibility right there.

JOSKOMANG4
07-17-2009, 03:55 PM
Phillies acquire 3b Scott Rolen and Sp Roy Halladay

Blue Jays acquire IF Jason Donald, OF Mike Taylor, SP JA Happ, SP Carrasco, and C Lou Marson

Phillies Lineup:

SS- Rollins
CF- Victorino
2b- Utley
1b- Howard
LF- Ibanez
RF- Worth
3b- Rolen
C- Coste/Ruiz

Rotation: Hamels, Halladay, Moyer, Blanton, Pedro

Blue Jays:

SS- Scutaro
2b- Hill
RF- Rios
CF- Wells/M. Taylor
1b- Overbay
LF- Lind
DH- Millar
C- Barajas/Marson
3b- Jason Donald

Rotation: Cecil, Romero, Richmond, Mcgowan, Happ, Carrasco

beermugs
07-17-2009, 04:02 PM
roy is 1a and johan is 1b ny mets need 2 get him

McJoe
07-17-2009, 04:10 PM
You cant overrated one of the top 2 pitchers in baseball. But obviously it doesnt make anyone a contender. If the Pirates or Nationals acquire him they arent gonna contend lol.

T.O. Fan
07-17-2009, 04:22 PM
let me direct you to this thread, he's happened to play in NY for 15 years

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386120

I didn't read the entire thread, but I assume you're saying Jeter is overrated and I guess you're also saying Halladay is????

Sorry, I'm confused and don't want to read that entire thread.

T.O. Fan
07-17-2009, 04:22 PM
Phillies acquire 3b Scott Rolen and Sp Roy Halladay

Blue Jays acquire IF Jason Donald, OF Mike Taylor, SP JA Happ, SP Carrasco, and C Lou Marson

Phillies Lineup:

SS- Rollins
CF- Victorino
2b- Utley
1b- Howard
LF- Ibanez
RF- Worth
3b- Rolen
C- Coste/Ruiz

Rotation: Hamels, Halladay, Moyer, Blanton, Pedro

Blue Jays:

SS- Scutaro
2b- Hill
RF- Rios
CF- Wells/M. Taylor
1b- Overbay
LF- Lind
DH- Millar
C- Barajas/Marson
3b- Jason Donald

Rotation: Cecil, Romero, Richmond, Mcgowan, Happ, Carrasco

No thanks, from the Jays point of view....

B2theRY
07-17-2009, 04:39 PM
saying roy halladay is overrated is like saying Greg maddux was overrated throughout his career.

give me a break.

Roy Halladay IS the best pitcher in baseball
he plays for a **** team.

it tells you when every team in baseball has called the blue jays to ask what it would take for halladay how good this guy is.
it just shows you that you SHOULDNT trade him.

but his value is so damn high that sometimes you just have to roll the dice.

Fred
07-17-2009, 09:26 PM
I didn't read the entire thread, but anyone that gets Doc is getting a #1 who replaces a #5....that is a HUGE difference...it pushes everyone down...Cole Hamels is the Phillies #1, but he becomes a #2 on the Phils while Blanton goes to #3, Happ is #4 and Moyer is #5 (btw, Moyer is 9-6 on the year)...right now, it is #5 by committee for the Phils...they have tried a few different guys so far (two of whom are on the DL now)...yeah, Halladay makes a BIG difference to a contender....

Nighthawk
07-17-2009, 09:27 PM
all the teams interested are already teams that will most likely be contending for the title. So adding a top 3 pitcher in all of baseball to your already championship caliber team imo would push you into that "favorite" category

hawks1723
07-17-2009, 09:30 PM
I didn't read the entire thread, but anyone that gets Doc is getting a #1 who replaces a #5....that is a HUGE difference...it pushes everyone down...Cole Hamels is the Phillies #1, but he becomes a #2 on the Phils while Blanton goes to #3, Happ is #4 and Moyer is #5 (btw, Moyer is 9-6 on the year)...right now, it is #5 by committee for the Phils...they have tried a few different guys so far (two of whom are on the DL now)...yeah, Halladay makes a BIG difference to a contender....

I don't see Pedro's name in there. I highly doubt they just signed him and won't even get him a couple starts. To get Halladay, it's looking like Happ will have to go along with the deal.

B2theRY
07-17-2009, 09:52 PM
Halladay to me is the best pitcher in baseball.. if a guy like Johan Santana who has won nothing (and people say halladay has won nothing) can make $20 + million a season

and people think he is just so dominate.
if halladay was on a winning team in basball the guy can win 22-23 games a season... yes i said it!

The guy when he plays a full season puts up close to 20 every year and if you look back they blow atleast 5-6 games for him.


wish he would retire as a jay but we got JP he'll **** it up

rock_70ca
07-17-2009, 11:06 PM
he's underrated if anything...

Wiz kids
07-17-2009, 11:27 PM
I said it before and I'll say it again, no team should give up big time prospects for a guy whose best years are behind him, not to mention he's 32.

Yanks All Day
07-17-2009, 11:30 PM
They are not overrating Doc. They simply mean that if he goes to a contender, he could, and most likely would, put them over the top. Most likely any team that wants to acquire him will have to give away major prospects and major-league ready players, but still teams, particularly New York and Boston could afford it. Imagine facing rotations like this in a playoff series:

Yankees:
Halladay, Sabathia, Burnett (5 game series)
Halladay, Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte/Joba (7 game series)

Red Sox:
Halladay, Beckett, Lester (5 game series)
Halladay, Beckett, Lester, Wakefield/Smoltz/Penny (7 game series)

I'm not sure anyone could out-pitch either of those rotations. With lineups like NYY and BOS have and a rotation like that, a WS Title is almost guaranteed.

By the way, in no way am I saying that the Yanks or Sox are the only possible destinations for Doc, because I don't think he will go to either. I simply used them as examples because, well, I see them play all the time and know their teams better than I know other lineups/rotations.

kmoneyjuice
07-18-2009, 01:04 AM
They are not overrating Doc. They simply mean that if he goes to a contender, he could, and most likely would, put them over the top. Most likely any team that wants to acquire him will have to give away major prospects and major-league ready players, but still teams, particularly New York and Boston could afford it. Imagine facing rotations like this in a playoff series:

Yankees:
Halladay, Sabathia, Burnett (5 game series)
Halladay, Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte/Joba (7 game series)

Red Sox:
Halladay, Beckett, Lester (5 game series)
Halladay, Beckett, Lester, Wakefield/Smoltz/Penny (7 game series)

I'm not sure anyone could out-pitch either of those rotations. With lineups like NYY and BOS have and a rotation like that, a WS Title is almost guaranteed.

By the way, in no way am I saying that the Yanks or Sox are the only possible destinations for Doc, because I don't think he will go to either. I simply used them as examples because, well, I see them play all the time and know their teams better than I know other lineups/rotations.

Giants:
Linci, Halladay, Cain (5 game)
Linci, Halladay, Cain, Johnson (7 game)

kmoneyjuice
07-18-2009, 01:06 AM
he's underrated if anything...

no

Trldar
07-18-2009, 01:33 AM
I think the NYY's could take maybe Rios on in the Halladay deal sending A JACKS ROMINE Kennedy McClaister Melancon Brackman this is alot of upper prospects throw in Swisher for Rios and we take on some money yet you get a RF/CF back

Trldar
07-18-2009, 01:36 AM
AS far as NYY


Halladay Sabathia Burnett Pettitte Hughes would be my rotation or Wang in for Hughes if he ever gets it right this year he looked to be coming around and WHAM



Joba I still like better in the pen as our 8 inning guy

I think Hughes is better than Joba he thinks more like a SP than Joba(too many fastballs)

but Hughes and Joba in the pen in the playoffs would be great

torontosports10
07-18-2009, 10:10 AM
I think the NYY's could take maybe Rios on in the Halladay deal sending A JACKS ROMINE Kennedy McClaister Melancon Brackman this is alot of upper prospects throw in Swisher for Rios and we take on some money yet you get a RF/CF back


No. I dont get how so many Yanks fans are doing 2 things.

1.Making deals in which we get Joba cause Hughes is better. Dont you think that TO would hold out for Hughes knowing that? Same with Montero. Well Montero is better then our other catching prospect so we will keep Montero and they can have the other guy. Not happening espically in division.

2. Some are making deals like the one above in which we don get Hughes,Joba,Montero,Jackson.... Like jesus christ wake up. Were not trading him to you, in divison, for anything less then your top 4 young talent. Hughes,Montero,Jackson and someone else. So get over it with these stupid other offers and saying Rios is a throw in as well, cause he does have value to us. Wells it the one who doesnt

Zaunnie
07-18-2009, 01:20 PM
No. I dont get how so many Yanks fans are doing 2 things.

1.Making deals in which we get Joba cause Hughes is better. Dont you think that TO would hold out for Hughes knowing that? Same with Montero. Well Montero is better then our other catching prospect so we will keep Montero and they can have the other guy. Not happening espically in division.

2. Some are making deals like the one above in which we don get Hughes,Joba,Montero,Jackson.... Like jesus christ wake up. Were not trading him to you, in divison, for anything less then your top 4 young talent. Hughes,Montero,Jackson and someone else. So get over it with these stupid other offers and saying Rios is a throw in as well, cause he does have value to us. Wells it the one who doesnt

:clap:

500 Level
07-18-2009, 01:54 PM
I said it before and I'll say it again, no team should give up big time prospects for a guy whose best years are behind him, not to mention he's 32.

What is with this best years are behind him crap. He just started the All Star game. what an idiot.

GHOSTSNIPER
07-18-2009, 02:10 PM
Yes because your the first one that told me that. Listen genius here are the stats. Statistically Philly is better. Also will take Rollins,Vic,Utley,Howard,Werth,Ibanez,Feliz as a team over your front 7 any day.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team?statType=batting&group=9

Stats are like women...nice to look at,but they don't tell the whole story.My team is in Iraq and Afghanistan.

brandonwarne52
07-18-2009, 02:46 PM
Old stats are like old women. I don't want to see them.

500 Level
07-18-2009, 02:48 PM
I think the NYY's could take maybe Rios on in the Halladay deal sending A JACKS ROMINE Kennedy McClaister Melancon Brackman this is alot of upper prospects throw in Swisher for Rios and we take on some money yet you get a RF/CF back

This is so delusional it hurts.

RIOS IS NOT A SALARY DUMP. That is why every thread in the MLB has there team getting him, because he is a desirable player.

And there is no way that package even sniffs Roy Halladay. You take back wells not Rios, keep swisher, Throw away whoever those last three scrubs are and add Joba/Hughes and then you might have a competitive package. Yanks fans are absurd. We don't NEED to trade Halladay lol. Two draft picks are way better than that deal.

Yanks you over value your prospect. Jackson is hitting OK in AAA. Joba is a backend starter. And Romine is your second best catching prospect lol.

Remember when Melky was super untradeable awesome superstar of the future. He wouldn't start for 75% of the league. Get real yankees.

Jamiecballer
07-18-2009, 03:31 PM
I agree, The mets got santana and they were the favorites to win the world series, did they win it? NO! No they did not. this isnt basketball or football, 1 player wont make much of a difference on a team (Unless the player is Pujols:p)

Didn't the Mets acquire Santana in the offseason??? That's not the same. People thought adding Santana to what the Mets had ON PAPER would make them favorites. Plenty of talented teams have sucked once the team started playing and their weaknesses were exposed.

Now we are talking about adding a stud to teams that are in good position to make the postseason.

Jamiecballer
07-18-2009, 03:36 PM
I said it before and I'll say it again, no team should give up big time prospects for a guy whose best years are behind him, not to mention he's 32.

I've had the pleasure of watching this guy pitch every 5th day for the last 10 years. He's better now than he's ever been. He transformed from a power pitcher into a "Greg Maddux with better stuff" pitcher.

SplenidSplinter
07-18-2009, 04:54 PM
I've had the pleasure of watching this guy pitch every 5th day for the last 10 years. He's better now than he's ever been. He transformed from a power pitcher into a "Greg Maddux with better stuff" pitcher.

Could not agree more! The only thing is he probably only has 2-3 years of dominance ahead of him. He is totally a different pitcher than Maddux. More power. However, if it would lead your team to a ring, why the heck wouldnt you do it? Prospects are called "prospects" for a reason. Who know what they will turn out to be. They could be Miguel Cabrera, or they could be Brian Rose.

Wiz kids
07-20-2009, 05:39 AM
What is with this best years are behind him crap. He just started the All Star game. what an idiot.

Yeah, Joe Madden said Halladay was starting due to his "body of work" not necessarily for his current season, there's no way Greinke shouldn't have started and he proved it at the ASG.

Shifty1 69
07-20-2009, 08:41 AM
I think the NYY's could take maybe Rios on in the Halladay deal sending A JACKS ROMINE Kennedy McClaister Melancon Brackman this is alot of upper prospects throw in Swisher for Rios and we take on some money yet you get a RF/CF back

"throw in Rios" thats nice that you'd be willing to allow the Jays to do that.:rolleyes::D
Oooo, and give them Swisher in return.

NO WAY that anything happens with Kennedy:speechless: as the pitching that comes back... Things start with Hughes/Joba, and then move onto Montero/Jackson +++. I am thinking Jonny Mac for Kennedy??:p

Contrary to popular opinion Rios is not a "dump" kinda player. He is around $12mil. per, but even in a brutal year is putting up some decent #'s, plays a top notch OF (could play a great CF if VW wasnt blocking it and then his offense becomes that much better being from a CF)....

no thanks.....

Shifty1 69
07-20-2009, 08:49 AM
Yeah, Joe Madden said Halladay was starting due to his "body of work" not necessarily for his current season, there's no way Greinke shouldn't have started and he proved it at the ASG.

Great post!! To further the thought, there is no way that Pujols should have started either... I mean he went 0-3. They should have known that would happen and benched him!!

Greinke has has a whole half of a season of dominance, not to mention he pitches in the wildly tough AL Central. How could they consider letting Halladay start? Crazy professional baseball people making decisions that are best left to forum posters.:mad::smoking:

North Yorker
07-20-2009, 09:01 AM
Great post!! To further the thought, there is no way that Pujols should have started either... I mean he went 0-3. They should have known that would happen and benched him!!

Greinke has has a whole half of a season of dominance, not to mention he pitches in the wildly tough AL Central. How could they consider letting Halladay start? Crazy professional baseball people making decisions that are best left to forum posters.:mad::smoking:

Yea, I know.

WizKid still doesnt understand the fact why a team is gonna offer their best prospects for Doc:laugh:

misterd
07-20-2009, 09:01 AM
I've had the pleasure of watching this guy pitch every 5th day for the last 10 years. He's better now than he's ever been. He transformed from a power pitcher into a "Greg Maddux with better stuff" pitcher.

Odds are though his best days ARE behind him, or soon will be. Look at Maddux - his peak years according to ERA+ were 1992-1998. 1999 he was still a good pitcher, but he was also 33, and not quite as good as he had been. From 1999-2008, he had only 3 years that were above his average season.

If we were talking about a 1 or 2 player swap for Halliday I could see it. If teams were allowed a chance to extend his contract for an extra couple of years, maybe I can see more. But to ask for 2 blue chip prospects + more prospects + risk that he walks away in FA come January? Sorry, that's just asking too damn much.

Living Legend
07-20-2009, 09:42 AM
Odds are though his best days ARE behind him, or soon will be. Look at Maddux - his peak years according to ERA+ were 1992-1998. 1999 he was still a good pitcher, but he was also 33, and not quite as good as he had been. From 1999-2008, he had only 3 years that were above his average season.

If we were talking about a 1 or 2 player swap for Halliday I could see it. If teams were allowed a chance to extend his contract for an extra couple of years, maybe I can see more. But to ask for 2 blue chip prospects + more prospects + risk that he walks away in FA come January? Sorry, that's just asking too damn much.

Very nice post.

I think you also realize that the Blue Jays are just trying to rip somebody off and get a whole farm system for a player that is going to hit the free agent market.

I think Halladay merits 1 or 2 good prospects in a trade, thats it.

Not 3 or 4 top level ones.

That is just laughable.

MarkieMark48
07-20-2009, 10:52 AM
Very nice post.

I think you also realize that the Blue Jays are just trying to rip somebody off and get a whole farm system for a player that is going to hit the free agent market.

I think Halladay merits 1 or 2 good prospects in a trade, thats it.

Not 3 or 4 top level ones.

That is just laughable.

If the jays keep him through the end of his contract (which is at the end of the 2010 season, not the 2009 season), and dont resign him, they will get 2 first round draft picks. If a team is going to trade for him(esp within the same division), dont you think the jays would want more than what is equivalent to two first round draft picks?

jacquewho?
07-20-2009, 12:22 PM
Not at all. He is the one of, if not THE best pitcher in the league right now with his performances.

misterd
07-20-2009, 12:36 PM
Very nice post.

I think you also realize that the Blue Jays are just trying to rip somebody off and get a whole farm system for a player that is going to hit the free agent market.

I think Halladay merits 1 or 2 good prospects in a trade, thats it.

Not 3 or 4 top level ones.

That is just laughable.

I accept the GM at his word. He's only desiring to trade him if someone blows him away. I, for one, will not blow him. I hope the Yankees don't blow him. But if someone else wants to blow him for Halliday, I won't fault him for taking the offer.

misterd
07-20-2009, 12:37 PM
If the jays keep him through the end of his contract (which is at the end of the 2010 season, not the 2009 season), and dont resign him, they will get 2 first round draft picks. If a team is going to trade for him(esp within the same division), dont you think the jays would want more than what is equivalent to two first round draft picks?

If the Jays don't trade him, they also have to pay his salary. So, no. They should be taking at most the 2 top prospects, more likely less.

REGular
07-20-2009, 12:41 PM
Miguel Cabrera was traded for 4 good prospects from the Detroit organization including like 3 of their top 10. Meanwhile, only 2 of them remain with the Marlins, both are yet to contribute at the major league level (Miller is in the rotation but pretty average and Maybin was sent back to the minors).

Of course the age is what separates Halladay from Miggy, but considering the impact Halladay can have on your club, I don't think 4 prospects is out of the question.

Rogi10
07-20-2009, 01:07 PM
If the Jays don't trade him, they also have to pay his salary. So, no. They should be taking at most the 2 top prospects, more likely less.

wow, I hope you're kidding because that would be the most onesided deal for Roy Halladay.

MarkieMark48
07-20-2009, 10:01 PM
If the Jays don't trade him, they also have to pay his salary. So, no. They should be taking at most the 2 top prospects, more likely less.

The jays dont mind paying his salary, you must not know what he gets paid. If you did, you would realize why a team should be willing to throw in another prospect if they were to trade for him.

Dark Donnie
07-20-2009, 10:06 PM
Teams aren't allowed a negotiating window....plus Halladay can opt out at the end of the year. That scares alot of teams off. In the end no team will give JP what he thinks Doc is worth.

MarkieMark48
07-20-2009, 10:18 PM
Teams aren't allowed a negotiating window....plus Halladay can opt out at the end of the year. That scares alot of teams off. In the end no team will give JP what he thinks Doc is worth.


Ive never once read where he has a opt-out clause in his contract...

in 2006 he signed an extension of his contract through the 2010 season. Ive never seen anything about an opt-out

Ripper Gein
07-20-2009, 10:19 PM
I accept the GM at his word. He's only desiring to trade him if someone blows him away. I, for one, will not blow him. I hope the Yankees don't blow him. But if someone else wants to blow him for Halliday, I won't fault him for taking the offer.


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:This made me laugh

Dark Donnie
07-20-2009, 10:27 PM
Ive never once read where he has a opt-out clause in his contract...

in 2006 he signed an extension of his contract through the 2010 season. Ive never seen anything about an opt-out

I've seen it mentioned multiple times.

MarkieMark48
07-20-2009, 11:38 PM
send me a link... im pretty sure the jays have him signed through 2010 which is why they dont need to, nor are in any rush to trade him

Zaunnie
07-20-2009, 11:56 PM
Teams aren't allowed a negotiating window....plus Halladay can opt out at the end of the year. That scares alot of teams off. In the end no team will give JP what he thinks Doc is worth.

no he can't

Dark Donnie
07-21-2009, 12:49 AM
no he can't

Yes he can:



Players who signed multiyear contracts before Oct. 2006 can demand a trade, if they are traded in the middle of their deals. Halladay signed a three-year, $40 million contract extension with the Blue Jays in March 2006, which means if Toronto trades him, he can demand a trade in the off-season.
http://zozone.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/07/another_thing_to_consider_abou.html

Javier Vazquez did it when he was moved to the D Backs. It's in the CBA apparently.

2009mvp
07-21-2009, 01:20 AM
^^Sure, but considering he has an NTC in his deal right now, it'd be pretty ridiculous to assume that he'd waive that to move to a new city, then invoke that clause come winter. It says demand a trade, as in play in another city with the same contract, not opt out for more money ala AJ Burnett. Not a factor IMO.

MarkieMark48
07-21-2009, 01:22 AM
thats not what I consider an opt-out, plus why would he waive his NTC now to move to a contender just to demand another trade in 4 months to play for another team and get paid the same money? I dont see that happening

nithanyo
07-21-2009, 07:17 AM
i thought players can ask for a trade if they are traded in the first year of a multi-year deal. But this isnt his first year