PDA

View Full Version : Toronto Raptors - Are they: BETTER, WORSE, or THE SAME as Last Year?



Chronz
07-15-2009, 12:16 PM
Everyone seems to be making a big deal about Vince replacing Hedo, so why not flip the argument.

Hedo is essentially replacing Marion and while the team has made slight upgrades all around, and Bosh/Bargs should continue to improve, Hedo outplaying Marion will play a crucial role in determining whether or not the Raps make a return trip to the playoffs.

Few things to consider:

Can Hedo and Calderon share the ball? Hedo operated as a PointForward for the Magic, hes coming into a situation that has the truest PG in the league, what kind of role should we expect from both players? Will they miss Marions ability to play off the ball?

The Raps were ranked 22nd on both offense and defense, Marion was far and away their best defender, how much of an impact will the switch make on the defensive end, will they slip even further? How much can Hedo help the offense when you consider his main asset offensively is already taken care of.

black1605
07-15-2009, 12:19 PM
if Derozen can be a solid contributor right away, they will be better

Chronz
07-15-2009, 12:21 PM
if Derozen can be a solid contributor right away, they will be better

He wont be, but really now. Your hinging their playoff hopes on Derozen?

ManRam
07-15-2009, 12:23 PM
I've never been a huge Marion fan. I think Hedo will fit in real well. He isn't a selfish player, so there is no doubt he and Calderon can mesh.

Better.

black1605
07-15-2009, 12:24 PM
He wont be, but really now. Your hinging their playoff hopes on Derozen?

no, i hinge it on them having a scorer on the wing

Diggy_2
07-15-2009, 12:27 PM
i think they are better probally not contenders but as of now they are a playoff team probally a 7th or 6th seed

Rapsjaysleafs
07-15-2009, 12:27 PM
This years team will be much improved from last year. I am not only saying that because I am a fan. The Hedo pick up will be great for the Raps. Maybe not on D, but they will out-score alot of teams. A MASSIVE signing is the probable signing of Jarret Jack. Our weakness last season was the back up point guard spot, and if Jack can realise he is the back up, and do his job that position just became drastically improved. Derozan's impact will not be as great as everyone thinks this first season. He is not a quick fix. He has loads of potential and may be one of the least NBA ready players in the top 10. He will be able to play great D ..... eventually. We must give him time. Maybe 20 or so minutes per game. Bargs and Bosh should improve of course. Evans will pick up a ton of boards for the second unit and if Rasho comes to town thats a pretty solid bench with Jack, Delfino/Wright, Derozan, Evans and Rasho. I will be hoping for 6-8 place in the east!!!

North Yorker
07-15-2009, 12:28 PM
Calderon doesnt need to have the ball in his hands to be effective. He's a deadly 3 point shooter off the pass.

Hedo doing a pick and roll/pop with Bosh and Bargnani is gonna be lethal.

We're also gonna be A LOT deeper than last year. Our 2nd unit could be
Jack
DeRozan
Delfino/Wright
Reggie Evans
Rasho Nesterovic

Jays Claw
07-15-2009, 12:32 PM
They are better.

J-Relo
07-15-2009, 12:32 PM
Better.

torontosports10
07-15-2009, 12:36 PM
A lot better. When Jose went down we had no back up pg. If we can get Jack,Delfino and Rasho (all of which could be happening soon) then our septh is MUCH improved and if they all stay healthy I think this could be a 4-8 seed team

magic4life
07-15-2009, 12:37 PM
you cant get any worse so by default.. better

Jays Claw
07-15-2009, 12:38 PM
Chris Bosh is due to have a monster year as well.

Badluck33
07-15-2009, 12:40 PM
Hopefully Toronto plays like crap so Bosh will leave.

wishful thinking

Chronz
07-15-2009, 12:40 PM
A lot better. When Jose went down we had no back up pg. If we can get Jack,Delfino and Rasho (all of which could be happening soon) then our septh is MUCH improved and if they all stay healthy I think this could be a 4-8 seed team

Thats a sick fu manchu you got there



This years team will be much improved from last year. I am not only saying that because I am a fan. The Hedo pick up will be great for the Raps. Maybe not on D, but they will out-score alot of teams. A MASSIVE signing is the probable signing of Jarret Jack. Our weakness last season was the back up point guard spot, and if Jack can realise he is the back up, and do his job that position just became drastically improved. Derozan's impact will not be as great as everyone thinks this first season. He is not a quick fix. He has loads of potential and may be one of the least NBA ready players in the top 10. He will be able to play great D ..... eventually. We must give him time. Maybe 20 or so minutes per game. Bargs and Bosh should improve of course. Evans will pick up a ton of boards for the second unit and if Rasho comes to town thats a pretty solid bench with Jack, Delfino/Wright, Derozan, Evans and Rasho. I will be hoping for 6-8 place in the east!!!
Offensively, were do you think the team ranks, and if you get any worse defensively, I dont know of too many teams that made the playoffs with a +22 ranked defense. So unless the Raps go from being an offensive powerhouse I dont see them sniffing the playoffs.

RyderRyfle
07-15-2009, 12:42 PM
uh, nah :eyebrow:

PennyMy#1
07-15-2009, 12:43 PM
I'd say the same. Maybe a little bit better. They lost Marion, but added Turk. Jarret Jack and Derozan can be factors for improvement don't have to be.

Jays Claw
07-15-2009, 12:44 PM
^ Look at what Phoenix did a couple years back.

Jays Claw
07-15-2009, 12:44 PM
Offensively, were do you think the team ranks, and if you get any worse defensively, I dont know of too many teams that made the playoffs with a +22 ranked defense. So unless the Raps go from being an offensive powerhouse I dont see them sniffing the playoffs.

Look at what Phoenix did a couple of years ago.

The_905
07-15-2009, 12:52 PM
Hopefully Toronto plays like crap so Bosh will leave.

wishful thinking

How is that a constructive post?
I hope d rose has a late season ending injury so bosh for sure won't go to Chicago..


The raps can ONLY be better, they were awful last year so they can only go up from there..

only time will tell but i see the team finishing with the 5th or 6th seed as the east after the magic cavs and celtics is wide open.

Chronz
07-15-2009, 12:57 PM
Look at what Phoenix did a couple of years ago.

Phoenix was never as bad as the Raptors were this past year

Robbw241
07-15-2009, 12:58 PM
Better IMO

CWest
07-15-2009, 01:02 PM
I think the roster is much better then last year, yes we did lose Marion and his defense, adding Antonie Wright is going is huge for the Raps this year, he is a guy who can defend the 3, 2, and also 1 positions, and for the sake of argument the Pacers don't match the offer on Jack he is another very good defender. Even if he is getting a little up there in age Devon George a good defender off the bench.

Raps lacked toughness last year but this year added on of the meanest players in the NBA Reggie Evans.

Last year i also think the raps depended too much on Bosh to win us the game late in the 4th after having to ride him to get us there because there was no real 2nd option, i think Hedo can be that 2nd option, and his late game heroics is something much needed in Toronto. Also Hedo willingness to take it to the hole is needed as well.

Where we got a little worst is long range shooting, with the lose of Kapono , and Parker. Hedo will help that loss a bit.

Also if the Raps get Jack that would make the Point guard situation alot better.

Chronz
07-15-2009, 01:09 PM
Thats a damn good first post CWest

tland22
07-15-2009, 01:14 PM
add a POLL man...

and with all these raptor fans on here, I would BET MY SOUL that everyon would say BETTER.

They are better though, by virtue of adding Hedo. Just Barely though. I like Marion more than Hedo, I think Marion is better, but Hedo is better fit for this team in my opinion. They over paid, because he isnt THAT good. but he makes them better. And DeRozan STINKS....he will be in the D-League for the rest of his "career" before we all know it. What a wasted pick. He did NOTHINg...NOTHING at USC...absolutely NOTHING.

JayW_1023
07-15-2009, 01:16 PM
The Raps are going to be better. Hedo really fits their finesse style...but they have also added toughness in Evans, Wright and possibly even Jarrett Jack. Toughness has been the biggest issue for Toronto and they have adressed that quite well...especially if they land Jack. Plus Andrea Bargnani will be better this year...if he can pick up where he left off last season, he'll join Bosh in a potent frontcourt where both players can play inside out. Marion really didn't fit well with Toronto, because he is more effective at the 4 when he could outrun powerforwards and score in transition. With Bosh at the four, Marion spent alot of time at the three where his erratic shooting and limited creation of his own shot showed.

tland22
07-15-2009, 01:20 PM
Phoenix was never as bad as the Raptors were this past year

I agree, great point. And i loved your point about their Defense.

The Raps wont make the playoffs. I would bet a good bit of money on that one. Because, who are they going to knock out of the playoffs....the bulls? the pistons? the heat? I dont think they'll be better than any of those teams, and those teams arent that great...though i like the Pistons right now.

ggg
07-15-2009, 01:22 PM
raptors are going euro ball, theyr gonna have both advantages and disadvanteges but for sure their market will be better.

Murphy_Dee
07-15-2009, 01:24 PM
I think they'll be better, but the signing of Hedo and Jack (potentially) probably seem bigger to me than to non-biased observers. Its hard not to improve on a terrible record though, so I say they're a playoff team.

Bob_at_york
07-15-2009, 01:33 PM
Reggie Evans brings a toughness to the team that they need, the real question is, how many minutes can they afford to leave Evans out there since to have him out there they need to sit one of their prized big men?

Raph12
07-15-2009, 01:33 PM
I don't know about playoff team, I don't see them ousting Chicago, Miami, Atlanta or even Detriot but Philly and Charlotte maybe, but I think they'll be 9th behind Washington and then choose to trade Bosh before the deadline. Personally I can't see how they could be worse than 3rd last in the East so I say they'll be better than last year but unless they can prove to be contending with the rest of the 4-8 placed teams in the East, say goodbye to Bosh Toronto.

juggla53
07-15-2009, 01:34 PM
Im not a raptors fan but i think they will deffinatley be good next year and absolutley be in the playoffs and probabley contend for that fourth seed behind the big three in the east, they have three good scorers in bosh bargs and now hedo and one of the better Pg's in the NBA in Calderon, if they can find some filler guys who can play some Deffense i deffinatley could see them makeing it to the second round of the playoffs

Unruly Fan
07-15-2009, 01:38 PM
I think the roster is much better then last year, yes we did lose Marion and his defense, adding Antonie Wright is going is huge for the Raps this year, he is a guy who can defend the 3, 2, and also 1 positions, and for the sake of argument the Pacers don't match the offer on Jack he is another very good defender. Even if he is getting a little up there in age Devon George a good defender off the bench.

Raps lacked toughness last year but this year added on of the meanest players in the NBA Reggie Evans.

Last year i also think the raps depended too much on Bosh to win us the game late in the 4th after having to ride him to get us there because there was no real 2nd option, i think Hedo can be that 2nd option, and his late game heroics is something much needed in Toronto. Also Hedo willingness to take it to the hole is needed as well.

Where we got a little worst is long range shooting, with the lose of Kapono , and Parker. Hedo will help that loss a bit.

Also if the Raps get Jack that would make the Point guard situation alot better.I agree with everything said here.^^^

Marion and Hedo offer different elements the Raptors need. Hedo offers that second option that the team can rely on late in games while Marion offers all the other intangebles the Raps missed during the beginning of the season (including a significant boost in D).

I believe that the Hedo signing was the smarter choice as Toronto was still able to sign other players to possibly fill the void left by Marion (skillset).

Verdict: BETTER

Raps18-19 Champ
07-15-2009, 01:39 PM
I think we are better because we would have a deeper bench.

On paper, we are.

Now if everyone can stay healthy.

Bob_at_york
07-15-2009, 01:40 PM
I don't know about playoff team, I don't see them ousting Chicago, Miami, Atlanta or even Detriot but Philly and Charlotte maybe, but I think they'll be 9th behind Washington and then choose to trade Bosh before the deadline. Personally I can't see how they could be worse than 3rd last in the East so I say they'll be better than last year but unless they can prove to be contending with the rest of the 4-8 placed teams in the East, say goodbye to Bosh Toronto.

If they finish 9th then the East will be really competitive this season. I am having a lot of trouble seeing Detroit in the playoffs next season. I just don't believe in CharlieV or Ben.

tland22
07-15-2009, 01:43 PM
i dont get how anyone can say this team will be in the Playoffs..... 8 teams get in..the 4 that will for sure get in are:

Cavs, Magic, Boston, Hawks.(4 teams)

The Pistons will be in, they were last year, now they are much better. Wade will take the Heat to the playoffs again. The Bulls, the Wizards and the 76ers will all be better than the Raptors...guarantee you that.

That is 9 teams right there better than the Raptors IMO, and according to last year. I doubt the Raps even finish ahead of the Bobcats...

Think about this, they wont make the playoffs. Too many teams better than them.

marvILLous
07-15-2009, 01:45 PM
^obviously you can see the future

blujaysrock
07-15-2009, 01:47 PM
I think they are better we actually have an experienced backup PG in Jack.

smith&wesson
07-15-2009, 01:48 PM
I dont think its fair to base the raptors improvement on one person.
turk is a very good player, no doubt his addition will help.
but so will the addition of evans. obviously evans isnt a big name like turk but he provides what the raptors really missed last year, tuffness and rebounding.
also if we get jack. obviously now we have a ligit back up point gaurd. last year when calderon went down, the season was down hill from there.
add a yonge athletic prospect in derozen, a much improved bargs, and bosh on a contract year. I think it safe to say the raptors will be better with out a doubt. better enough to pass one of the three monsters in the east ?? i guess we'll have to see.

torontosports10
07-15-2009, 01:53 PM
Well to be honest im happy everyone is saying we will suck. Last year a lot of ppl said we would be top 4 and we **** the bed. So say we suck and give us something to prove you wrong with.

Im muc more content with the roster we have now then what we had last year. ALOT deeper and the skill set is made to meche alot better

Bob_at_york
07-15-2009, 01:55 PM
i dont get how anyone can say this team will be in the Playoffs..... 8 teams get in..the 4 that will for sure get in are:

Cavs, Magic, Boston, Hawks.(4 teams)

The Pistons will be in, they were last year, now they are much better.
Can you explain to me how the Pistons are better?


Wade will take the Heat to the playoffs again. The Bulls, the Wizards and the 76ers will all be better than the Raptors...guarantee you that.
I am not sure if ALL those teams will be better. Some will, some might not be.

clutchski
07-15-2009, 01:57 PM
add a POLL man...

and with all these raptor fans on here, I would BET MY SOUL that everyon would say BETTER.

They are better though, by virtue of adding Hedo. Just Barely though. I like Marion more than Hedo, I think Marion is better, but Hedo is better fit for this team in my opinion. They over paid, because he isnt THAT good. but he makes them better. And DeRozan STINKS....he will be in the D-League for the rest of his "career" before we all know it. What a wasted pick. He did NOTHINg...NOTHING at USC...absolutely NOTHING.

See that's the difference though; you've just taken into account one factor that has changed with the raptors but haven't considered other things that haven't been mainstream media. These other things have definitely changed the team and made it much better

The_905
07-15-2009, 01:59 PM
add a POLL man...

and with all these raptor fans on here, I would BET MY SOUL that everyon would say BETTER.

They are better though, by virtue of adding Hedo. Just Barely though. I like Marion more than Hedo, I think Marion is better, but Hedo is better fit for this team in my opinion. They over paid, because he isnt THAT good. but he makes them better. And DeRozan STINKS....he will be in the D-League for the rest of his "career" before we all know it. What a wasted pick. He did NOTHINg...NOTHING at USC...absolutely NOTHING.


WTF are you talking about?

Wiki:

"High school and college Awards and Honors

* 2006 All-Moore League First Team
* 2007 All-Moore League First Team
* 2007 Named to the Los Angeles Times First Team
* 2008 Parade Magazine All-America First Team
* 2008 Long Beach Press-Telegram's Best in the West First Team
* 2008 McDonald's High School All-American
* 2008 Jordan Brand All-American Classic
* 2008 Southern California Interscholastic Basketball Coaches Association I-AA Player of the Year (tied with two others)
* 2008 All-State Team
* 2009 Pac-10 Tournament Champion
* 2009 Named Most Outstanding Player in Pac-10 Tournament

His 485 points ranks third all-time and his 201 rebounds fourth all-time for a USC freshman."

North Yorker
07-15-2009, 01:59 PM
Can you explain to me how the Pistons are better?


I am not sure if ALL those teams will be better. Some will, some might not be.

Yea, I'm not seeing how Detroit is an automatic lock to make the playoffs.

Who are their bigs??
Charlie V and Maxielle?

If they trade Rip for a legit big man then I can see them being a PO team, but not now.

kuppz
07-15-2009, 02:01 PM
I cant believe this post ...

Look whoever thinks the raptors are not going to be better next year is ****in retarted

The_905
07-15-2009, 02:02 PM
i dont get how anyone can say this team will be in the Playoffs..... 8 teams get in..the 4 that will for sure get in are:

Cavs, Magic, Boston, Hawks.(4 teams)

The Pistons will be in, they were last year, now they are much better. Wade will take the Heat to the playoffs again. The Bulls, the Wizards and the 76ers will all be better than the Raptors...guarantee you that.

That is 9 teams right there better than the Raptors IMO, and according to last year. I doubt the Raps even finish ahead of the Bobcats...

Think about this, they wont make the playoffs. Too many teams better than them.

Right there your post became a f ing joke.. pistons are technically rebuilding right now how can you even say that just because they made the playoffs last year that now they are a better team?
lol
this post is ridiculous

Sportfan
07-15-2009, 02:03 PM
Hedo is a upgrade over Marion and they added Derozan, better

Bob_at_york
07-15-2009, 02:05 PM
I cant believe this post ...

Look whoever thinks the raptors are not going to be better next year is ****in retarted
What's with the insults? You need to calm down. You have to understand that a lot of teams get better and if a lot of them are in the East then the Raptors could find this year to be a tough one. Lots of teams have young players who are improving. Also injuries cannot be predicted (in most cases). Anything can happen.

Sportfan
07-15-2009, 02:06 PM
Right there your post became a f ing joke.. pistons are technically rebuilding right now how can you even say that just because they made the playoffs last year that now they are a better team?
lol
this post is ridiculous

the bulls could be adding boozer that instantly makes them a contender, and the wiz added Foye and have a healthy team no, i do agree with you th the sixers wont be making the postseason

smith&wesson
07-15-2009, 02:06 PM
i dont get how anyone can say this team will be in the Playoffs..... 8 teams get in..the 4 that will for sure get in are:

Cavs, Magic, Boston, Hawks.(4 teams)

The Pistons will be in, they were last year, now they are much better. Wade will take the Heat to the playoffs again. The Bulls, the Wizards and the 76ers will all be better than the Raptors...guarantee you that.

That is 9 teams right there better than the Raptors IMO, and according to last year. I doubt the Raps even finish ahead of the Bobcats...

Think about this, they wont make the playoffs. Too many teams better than them.

how are the 76ers, miami, wizards, and bulls all clear cut fav's over the raps ?

bulls are with out gordon this year. they are good, but our team matches up well against them.

wizards ? umm gilrbert = t mac. i dont think the wiz can take us in 7.

miami is 5 deep. wade, beasley, haslem, oniel, chalmers. the need a bench badly.

detroit added cv and bg. but gave up wallace. bg is a sg. rich ham is also a shooting gaurd. it didnt work last year with ivey. it wont work this year with bg.

we have, calderon, turk, bargs, bosh, most likely jack, evans, write, derozen.

thats deep man, c'mon give respek where its due homie :cool:

im not saying were better or worst then those teams. im just saying they arent better or worst then us. We have to wait for the season, and see how well each team performs with theyre respective additons.

but talent wize we are right up there we could finish 5th or even as good as 4th or we might not even make the play offs. as many times mentioned before it looks good on paper but we have to see how teams play together and if they catch chemistry. thats what we learned last year getting burned with the jo trade, we gave up alot of depth for him, and he was injured half the time. it looked good on paper but it didnt pan out. this year is differen. we have a bench. a good one too.

Raph12
07-15-2009, 02:07 PM
If they finish 9th then the East will be really competitive this season. I am having a lot of trouble seeing Detroit in the playoffs next season. I just don't believe in CharlieV or Ben.

Ye maybe if nothing meshes with CharlieV, Ben, Rip, Stucky and Prince. They have alot of talent and alot of trade pieces so I predict by April's end they make playoffs and btw I see Raps dealing Bosh b4 the trade deadline so they could get value out of him instead of him walking away.

PS even with Detriot out of playoffs, I'd take Wizards in b4 Toronto, sorry if you don't agree but this is just my opinion

ADDED: Funny part is; I live in Toronto lol, so my opinion isn't biased towards them

Eagles4Lyfe
07-15-2009, 02:11 PM
lol honestly whoever these guys are that are saying the BULLS and PISTONS are better then us know nothing about basketball period..DID anyone watch the bulls series against the celtics, they were only in the games late and even tied a lot of games was because of BEN GORDON, who is gone now..Bulls fans need to get over thereselves there glory days are over..They pray so hard on taking away bosh from us or boozer or any big named big guy..As for as the TOPIC of this thread they got better because of top notch changes made by there GM..All the haters are just jealous because they couldnt get the amazing depth we got

Chronz
07-15-2009, 02:17 PM
add a POLL man...

and with all these raptor fans on here, I would BET MY SOUL that everyon would say BETTER.

They are better though, by virtue of adding Hedo. Just Barely though. I like Marion more than Hedo, I think Marion is better, but Hedo is better fit for this team in my opinion. They over paid, because he isnt THAT good. but he makes them better. And DeRozan STINKS....he will be in the D-League for the rest of his "career" before we all know it. What a wasted pick. He did NOTHINg...NOTHING at USC...absolutely NOTHING.

Thats why I didnt add a poll, if you cant post your thoughts then it shouldnt matter what you think. Either way its pretty much unanimous that they will be better. I dont think theres any way they could get worse, Im looking more for how much better people think they will be. Playoff team or not, Im leaning towards the not column myself.

tland22
07-15-2009, 02:23 PM
Okay, there are about a million rapptors fans on PSD...i wont win this, it isnt worth my time to write back to each of you. You guys are suffering from delusions of grandeur. You refuse to listen to anything negative anyone says about your team, whether it is true or not. You guys are tricking yourselves, and are victims of the psychological phenomenon of GROUP THINK. Look it up if you dont know.

I predict the Raptors will not make the playoffs. The BEST finish you guys can possibly have is 8th, the worst I see is 11th.

Ya'lls defense was ranked 22nd last year. You lost Marion, BY AND FAR AND AWAY your best defender. Hedo isnt the greatest defender by any means, and you guys know that. So it is likely you wont be better than 22nd defensively. And like Cronz said earlier, I doubt any team has made the playoffs being 22nd or worse in defense...unless they are an offensive powerhouse team. And I dont think you guys have the roster to be an offensive powerhouse team. AND YOU KNOW IT.

Bob_at_york
07-15-2009, 02:31 PM
Thats why I didnt add a poll, if you cant post your thoughts then it shouldnt matter what you think.
**** sorry man, I feel bad for adding the poll now. I didn't know you intentionally didn't add one.


Ye maybe if nothing meshes with CharlieV, Ben, Rip, Stucky and Prince. They have alot of talent and alot of trade pieces so I predict by April's end they make playoffs and btw I see Raps dealing Bosh b4 the trade deadline so they could get value out of him instead of him walking away.
I am not sure what the Bosh trade prediction has to do with the thread so I will just ignore it and go back to the Pistons comparison. I just think that Ben and Charlie are over-rated. They can score but their D isn't very good. Overall I don't see their defence to be very good and combine that with a lack of inside presence, and with Rip/Stucky/Ben fighting for each other's minutes, I don't see it working. Now if they make a smart trade then it could all work out but I thought them signing the two of them to those contracts was the WRONG move.


PS even with Detriot out of playoffs, I'd take Wizards in b4 Toronto, sorry if you don't agree but this is just my opinion
I would take the Wiz too. Although I keep expecting another trade from them, they have too many wing players.

Chronz
07-15-2009, 02:33 PM
Well the other guy made the point about the additions of Deaven, Wright as solid wing defenders. Youve got to think Bargs improves his D alittle right, Bosh looked so good in the olympics but awful in the regular season. They have some kind of defensive potential, but yea I dont think that side improves all that much, if at all.

Im doing a search on the worst defensive teams that made the playoffs, then compare the kind of offense they had, and the production of their players to see if the Raps can match that kind of offense.


**** sorry man, I feel bad for adding the poll now. I didn't know you intentionally didn't add one.



Doesnt matter, I shouldve just named the thread something else, but I wanted to jock JB's style.

Trouble87
07-15-2009, 02:35 PM
without a doubt better

Bob_at_york
07-15-2009, 02:36 PM
Okay, there are about a million rapptors fans on PSD...i wont win this, it isnt worth my time to write back to each of you. You guys are suffering from delusions of grandeur. You refuse to listen to anything negative anyone says about your team, whether it is true or not. You guys are tricking yourselves, and are victims of the psychological phenomenon of GROUP THINK. Look it up if you dont know.
Thanks for lumping us all in together like we have some sort of hive mind. That isn't insulting or anything.


Ya'lls defense was ranked 22nd last year. You lost Marion, BY AND FAR AND AWAY your best defender. Hedo isnt the greatest defender by any means, and you guys know that. So it is likely you wont be better than 22nd defensively. And like Cronz said earlier, I doubt any team has made the playoffs being 22nd or worse in defense...unless they are an offensive powerhouse team.
As good as Marion can be defensively, he definitely didn't get to show it last year. There were a million times where I saw Marion being given ******** assignments (e.g. Covering Jamario Moon) while others had to try and cover Wade. Sure he helped us in the defensive rebounding department but he didn't help us overall defensively, at least I don't think he did because he seemed to get taken strategically out of the play a lot for our team. That means he was limited to help defence only.


And I dont think you guys have the roster to be an offensive powerhouse team. AND YOU KNOW IT.
We don't know it. There are a lot of people predicting that we are going to be sick offensively. I think some people forget that you can only play with one ball on the court at the same time and not everyone can have the ball in their hands at all times but I think we will be better offensively.

GCOOKIE7
07-15-2009, 02:45 PM
Shawn wasn't on the team for the whole year. Most of the ****** D came from before Shawn came.

RaptorsFanatic
07-15-2009, 02:46 PM
Okay, there are about a million rapptors fans on PSD...i wont win this, it isnt worth my time to write back to each of you. You guys are suffering from delusions of grandeur. You refuse to listen to anything negative anyone says about your team, whether it is true or not. You guys are tricking yourselves, and are victims of the psychological phenomenon of GROUP THINK. Look it up if you dont know.

I predict the Raptors will not make the playoffs. The BEST finish you guys can possibly have is 8th, the worst I see is 11th.

Ya'lls defense was ranked 22nd last year. You lost Marion, BY AND FAR AND AWAY your best defender. Hedo isnt the greatest defender by any means, and you guys know that. So it is likely you wont be better than 22nd defensively. And like Cronz said earlier, I doubt any team has made the playoffs being 22nd or worse in defense...unless they are an offensive powerhouse team. And I dont think you guys have the roster to be an offensive powerhouse team. AND YOU KNOW IT.

Yes you are right on some points for sure, but I dont think we always rebel on anyone who says bad stuff about us all the time. I mean c'mon, when your team doesn't get the media coverage or respect you think they deserve somewhat, it does hurt as a fan. Im not saying we are amazing, but when you always hear the same teams in the media, and even smaller market teams that have worse records getting more attention only because they are part of the same nation, it does in fact get to our heads. Believe it or not, we are the only non-American team in the league, lol...;)

masalex1205
07-15-2009, 02:47 PM
Who's going to play defense on this team?

Bob_at_york
07-15-2009, 02:52 PM
Who's going to play defense on this team?

Bargnani, Evans, Jack, and people are claiming that Wright is a VERY GOOD defender.

tland22
07-15-2009, 02:57 PM
Well, i promise you that you guys do it more than you think. Just do me a favor and go back and read of of you guys posts...when the raptor fans, knick fans, laker fans, and bulls fans all get in the same room, they all gang up on anyone saying anything negative about their own team....that is what usually happens.

Bob_at_york
07-15-2009, 03:00 PM
Well, i promise you that you guys do it more than you think. Just do me a favor and go back and read of of you guys posts...when the raptor fans, knick fans, laker fans, and bulls fans all get in the same room, they all gang up on anyone saying anything negative about their own team....that is what usually happens.

Once again, you are saying I gang up on people regularly?

I don't see what the problem is. If some teams fans are "ganging up" on someone with an opinion, then the person should be able to back up their opinion and be alright. Increased numbers don't make them right.

GCOOKIE7
07-15-2009, 03:08 PM
Damn straight

GCOOKIE7
07-15-2009, 03:08 PM
but plz dont compare us to knicks or Laker fans

BluejaysFan08
07-15-2009, 03:09 PM
Better.

Nadhi1
07-15-2009, 03:20 PM
better

smith&wesson
07-15-2009, 03:20 PM
Well, i promise you that you guys do it more than you think. Just do me a favor and go back and read of of you guys posts...when the raptor fans, knick fans, laker fans, and bulls fans all get in the same room, they all gang up on anyone saying anything negative about their own team....that is what usually happens.

were not ganging up on you. you have your opinion we have ours.

give me a comparison between the raps and one of wizards, miami, phili and explain to me why you think they are favs to beat us.

and if i go to a chicago forum or any city for that matter and start saying people are delusional and theyre team could never make the playoffs i would expect ppl to gang up on me ... maybe im a realist.

Unruly Fan
07-15-2009, 03:21 PM
i dont get how anyone can say this team will be in the Playoffs..... 8 teams get in..the 4 that will for sure get in are:

Cavs, Magic, Boston, Hawks.(4 teams)

The Pistons will be in, they were last year, now they are much better. Wade will take the Heat to the playoffs again. The Bulls, the Wizards and the 76ers will all be better than the Raptors...guarantee you that.
That is 9 teams right there better than the Raptors IMO, and according to last year. I doubt the Raps even finish ahead of the Bobcats...

Think about this, they wont make the playoffs. Too many teams better than them.This you can 100% guarantee huh?

"and accodring to last year"? Isn't the whole point of this thread to establish whether or not the Raps have improved FROM last year? The team has changed ALOT.

Sorry but your post smells a little like manure to me.

Unec
07-15-2009, 03:23 PM
7th seed in the east.. i dont think they got much better or worse!!

Legitimate
07-15-2009, 03:56 PM
I say that this raps team is way better than last year in terms of offence and a slight worse in terms of defence.

Sigh..you compared us to Laker fans.

td0tsfinest
07-15-2009, 04:17 PM
it definitely makes us better. We filled up spots we needed to fill; back up PG, deeper bench, slashing wings.

dtmagnet
07-15-2009, 04:20 PM
Much better I think, the starting lineup will be better with everyone being fully healthy and some new additions, and our bench will actually have NBA level talent on it instead of D-League players.

lorenz00
07-15-2009, 05:36 PM
way better than last year! i promise u that

JordansBulls
07-15-2009, 07:34 PM
Everyone seems to be making a big deal about Vince replacing Hedo, so why not flip the argument.

Hedo is essentially replacing Marion and while the team has made slight upgrades all around, and Bosh/Bargs should continue to improve, Hedo outplaying Marion will play a crucial role in determining whether or not the Raps make a return trip to the playoffs.

Few things to consider:

Can Hedo and Calderon share the ball? Hedo operated as a PointForward for the Magic, hes coming into a situation that has the truest PG in the league, what kind of role should we expect from both players? Will they miss Marions ability to play off the ball?

The Raps were ranked 22nd on both offense and defense, Marion was far and away their best defender, how much of an impact will the switch make on the defensive end, will they slip even further? How much can Hedo help the offense when you consider his main asset offensively is already taken care of.


They will obviously be better as last year they didn't even make the playoffs.

Chronz
07-15-2009, 07:36 PM
They will obviously be better as last year they didn't even make the playoffs.

So does that mean you think they'll make the playoffs, or havent you ever heard of a competitive loser, becoming worse?

bosh_dwill
07-15-2009, 07:46 PM
add a POLL man...

and with all these raptor fans on here, I would BET MY SOUL that everyon would say BETTER.

They are better though, by virtue of adding Hedo. Just Barely though. I like Marion more than Hedo, I think Marion is better, but Hedo is better fit for this team in my opinion. They over paid, because he isnt THAT good. but he makes them better. And DeRozan STINKS....he will be in the D-League for the rest of his "career" before we all know it. What a wasted pick. He did NOTHINg...NOTHING at USC...absolutely NOTHING.

so what did o.j mayo do for usc? nothing too and look how he came out genius

MagicAllDay
07-15-2009, 08:03 PM
theyll be better. theyll be like a poor mans version of the 08-09 magic. bosh is a good jump shooter for a big man. hedo obv goin to use him in a similar way. calderon is a solid pg. im expecting them to be the 6,7 or 8 seed. i still believe hedo is overrated. as a magic fan he def made some big shots but he blew a lot of them as well. he would dissapear for 4 or 5 games. hes good. not worth 10 mill tho.

lou seone
07-15-2009, 08:06 PM
bosh is ok but does not deserve the max....the heat are the no. 1 and most attractive spot that lebron could go in 2010 if he does not re-sign --let's say lebron;s team has a diappointing season,he see s that the cavaliers are an old team with no cap space and decides to join d. wade in miami(he loves hanging out in south beach)but the selling point would be that in addition to the heat trading one or two players to get more money for lebron is that pat riley coaches the team. how about a 20% of happening ---over or under what do ou think" ----i also beleive that is one of the reason's that he did not come to miami for the zo-wade summmer groove he was scheduled to attend--because of all the queations from newspapers reporters asking about the possibly of him signing with the heat in 2010-he wants to keep that possibility a secret.

MAC10TIZZY
07-15-2009, 08:12 PM
you guys are an all star burial ground, but, on a positive note, you can pretty much only go up from last year....

ggg
07-15-2009, 08:12 PM
apparently their goin soft in the inside, shiny on the outside

ko8e24
07-15-2009, 08:14 PM
by drafting demar and with bargs improving, they are better

MajorFloridaFan
07-15-2009, 08:16 PM
Hedo will not play defense without stan van gundy playing for him.....I think he will lack a lot of motivation....He had contract year motivation already and he would disappear for stretches of a game or the season even.......I want to see him play better but i think he has already peaked....Now they will make the playoffs...But they will not make an impact due to them being 4th seed or lower

franey25
07-15-2009, 08:22 PM
i think there better
assuming they get jack, delfino and rasho other then cavs/orlando/celtics
whos better then them in the east ? on paper at least, i think we can get past the first round becuase assuming where 4th we get home court and it seems some people are underestimating hedo turkaglu saying we over payed him you can't be the second best player on a team that made the finals and not be a great player.

king4day
07-15-2009, 08:24 PM
Better. They've only gained since last season (losing Marion wasn't as big as gaining Hedo), so they're better for sure.

MajorFloridaFan
07-15-2009, 08:26 PM
Still will not crack the top three by far....

JordansBulls
07-15-2009, 09:08 PM
So does that mean you think they'll make the playoffs, or havent you ever heard of a competitive loser, becoming worse?

They will make it.

Halladay
07-15-2009, 09:13 PM
Hedo will not play defense without stan van gundy playing for him.....I think he will lack a lot of motivation....He had contract year motivation already and he would disappear for stretches of a game or the season even.......I want to see him play better but i think he has already peaked....Now they will make the playoffs...But they will not make an impact due to them being 4th seed or lower

I take it Hedo leaving left a sour taste in your mouth? Funny, If I asked you what you thought of him a year ago you'd have nothing but good things to say. A little bias going on.

Halladay
07-15-2009, 09:19 PM
Bryan Colangelo has brought in some nice pieces to this lineup...he's added Wright, Hedo, Derozan(draft), Evans and probably Jack. Add that to our core of Bosh, Bargnani, and Calderon and that's not a bad team. Not a number one seed but to say that roster doesn't make the playoffs in the East seems a little crazy to me.

Boston-Born
07-15-2009, 10:56 PM
Losing AP will end up being more important than TO realizes.

MagicDojo
07-15-2009, 11:03 PM
Ahh who cares....will they be 7th , 8th, or 10th again?

Durant is hype
07-15-2009, 11:10 PM
Well the other guy made the point about the additions of Deaven, Wright as solid wing defenders. Youve got to think Bargs improves his D alittle right, Bosh looked so good in the olympics but awful in the regular season. They have some kind of defensive potential, but yea I dont think that side improves all that much, if at all.

Im doing a search on the worst defensive teams that made the playoffs, then compare the kind of offense they had, and the production of their players to see if the Raps can match that kind of offense.



Doesnt matter, I shouldve just named the thread something else, but I wanted to jock JB's style.

That's interesting man, care to post the results on this thread

Boston-Born
07-15-2009, 11:18 PM
Bryan Colangelo has brought in some nice pieces to this lineup...he's added Wright, Hedo, Derozan(draft), Evans and probably Jack. Add that to our core of Bosh, Bargnani, and Calderon and that's not a bad team. Not a number one seed but to say that roster doesn't make the playoffs in the East seems a little crazy to me.

I'm sure a lot of Raps fans said the same thing about getting Jermaine O'Neal last year...

SensandRaps
07-15-2009, 11:28 PM
^^the JO thing was one move and we said it was a high risk high reward type move, this time BC went with steady not injury prone players

NYMetros
07-15-2009, 11:31 PM
Don't undermine the fact that Anthony Parker was a great role player for them last year. His presence will be missed. But I think Toronto will be better if everyone can stay relatively healthy.

NYMetros
07-15-2009, 11:35 PM
Bargnani, Evans, Jack, and people are claiming that Wright is a VERY GOOD defender.

I thought Bargnani was a bad defender?

koreancabbage
07-15-2009, 11:44 PM
I thought Bargnani was a bad defender?

Bargnani ain't that bad, he's steady but learning the ways of being an NBA 5. so hopefully his learning curve will involve post defense, weak-side help and rebounding this summer.

todu82
07-15-2009, 11:44 PM
Yeah they're better.

ink
07-15-2009, 11:49 PM
I'm sure a lot of Raps fans said the same thing about getting Jermaine O'Neal last year...

Uh ... maybe you can explain to us how adding one player coming off an injury (JO) is comparable to adding significnt depth and a near all star who is healthy and in his prime?

----

Great thread Chronz. There's no doubt the Raptors will be better this year. It's hard to be worse than 33 wins. They will also make the playoffs, but how far they go really depends on how all these new parts gel together. There are lots of uncertainties around the team right now. As a homer, obviously I'm hoping they click really well and hit 45-50 wins.

ink
07-15-2009, 11:50 PM
I thought Bargnani was a bad defender?

Dramatic improvement last year.

championships
07-15-2009, 11:58 PM
I guess you can say they will be better. Kind of hard to be worse than 33 wins. They might barely make the playoffs but they won't make any noise.

yanksknicksgmen
07-16-2009, 12:00 AM
better. they replaced marion with hedo and got derozan

jdricks
07-16-2009, 12:06 AM
They will be better but they will not be a real contender especially since no one has no commitment to defense. This isn't a contender built team even with the addition of Hedo Derozan and those in the Marion trade. They don't have the toughness inside nor outside, they will get bullied by the bigs of other teams

Raps26
07-16-2009, 12:25 AM
Clearly better.

GodsSon
07-16-2009, 12:45 AM
i find this whole thread to be quite amusing, particularly with the posts that undermine the fact that on paper we're significantly better then last year...people are saying DeMar will be a bust, Hedo isnt very good and that we overpaid for him, losing AP is a big loss, and that we have no one to rebound or play defense for us...the funny thing is, had BC re-signed all of our free-agents, then the same people criticizing our off-season moves and claiming we arent much better, if at all, would be the same people saying we did nothing to improve had we kept the status quo and would expect us to miss the playoffs again...cant have it both ways people...but from my standpoint, barring some minor tinkering being done and our roster gelling, there is no reason why we shouldnt finish top 4 in the conference

Ace33Bone
07-16-2009, 12:47 AM
They will be much better and they will also make it to the playoffs this year as well

Davisayan
07-16-2009, 03:49 AM
Offensively this team is going to be slightly better with the addition of hedo. They are going to move the ball better. Defensively is where this team is going to struggle. Derozan was a great pick up but is going to need a year or two to be a factor. IMO the team is worst now becuase the slight increase on offense is not going to make up for the hit they took on the defensive side of the ball.

skinsfan4life80
07-16-2009, 10:10 AM
not very athletic. Thats not a good thing in the NBA

architect13563
07-16-2009, 10:32 AM
Bargnani for Defensive Player of the Year.

The Ooh Child
07-16-2009, 10:49 AM
I thinking around 47 wins and a first round exit from the playoffs. So yes, they are better.

pebloemer
07-16-2009, 10:58 AM
We are healthy, so better. I think that is the biggest difference.

FlakeyFool
07-16-2009, 11:00 AM
not very athletic. Thats not a good thing in the NBA

Bosh,DeRozan,Bargnani,Wright,Calderon, Jack

Bob_at_york
07-16-2009, 11:11 AM
I thought Bargnani was a bad defender?

I don't think so. Early in his career he wasn't good and when he did do things well, he still got whistled for fouls. Then I saw some improvement in his second year and the whistles started to be cut back a bit. Last year, he was solid defensively. He might never be a big rebounder or some crazy shot blocker but I think his post D is solid and he can get some charges on the defensive end too.

thekmp211
07-16-2009, 11:14 AM
Definitely better. Bosh will bounce back, Bargnani is another year more mature and looks ready to make a jump. Turkoglu for Marion is such an upgrade in skill and fit it's not even funny. Marion is a very overrated player -- he became too cocky about his offensive skills in Phoenix and now thinks he should be considered a 20 ppg scorer in the league. His best attributes were his defense, boardwork and athleticism. Not a lot going on off the ball, not a great shooter, bad handles.

Turkey will be great because Calderon does have a lot to offer off the ball. He is one of the purest shooters in the league, and the two of them can play pick and pop all day. Tall front court now, too, with Bosh Turkoglu and Bargnani. A lineup of those four players plus, say, Carlos Delfino would be very difficult to defend because of the shooting. They can also go small with Turk at the 4 and Bosh or Bargnani at the 5.

Jack will be huge, too. The guy is a borderline starter-level player who should really be able to kick the tempo off the bench. As long as he knows his role...

Rasho, Derozen, Delfino, Jack off the bench is solid. One more legit big would be huge.

Two things will doom this team: toughness and defense. They are tall but soft up front, and no one in the starting five is known for lockdown d. If they can learn to shut teams down for stretches and the talent meshes, this could be the EC 4-seed. I like them better than the Pistons and Sixers. If the Wizards get right, they could be a real sleeper. What a lineup they are rolling out. Raps definitely got a lot better this year.

Bob_at_york
07-16-2009, 11:15 AM
Losing AP will end up being more important than TO realizes.

That could be true, he did the little things and was a great vetern in the locker room.

DrJamesNaismith
07-16-2009, 11:19 AM
you cant get any worse so by default.. Better

+1

D2theJ
07-16-2009, 11:20 AM
Better.. 9th place

blah-blah
07-16-2009, 11:22 AM
better

DrJamesNaismith
07-16-2009, 11:24 AM
Look at what Phoenix did a couple of years ago.

Ya, Phoenix had the league MVP as well.

blah-blah
07-16-2009, 11:27 AM
they will be much better.. complete starting five, everyone at natural positions...much deeper bench then last year arguably the best bench in the NBA. I think they will finish 5th behind clev,orl,bos,atl and make it to the second round in the playoffs.

HoopsMachine
07-16-2009, 11:31 AM
Better adding Derozan, Turkoglu, Wright, Evans, and hopefully Jack and Rasho will make us a lot more solid defensively than last year. While Turkoglu doesn't add much defensively, he will give us that added dynamic of playmaking on offense that we didn't have in years past.

Nofear
07-16-2009, 11:35 AM
One thing is that the Raptors were doing okay until Bosh checked out which is right around the time that he split up with his girl and the coaching change as well.

Remove those distractions, and Bosh and the Raps must be improved. Add in the positive additions to the D and bench and you've got a playoff team.

Jamiecballer
07-16-2009, 11:48 AM
Bosh,DeRozan,Bargnani,Wright,Calderon, Jack

That's your argument to somebody saying the team is not terribly athletic?

Bosh and DeRozan sure, the other 3 are not tremendous athletes.

ink
07-16-2009, 12:49 PM
they will be much better.. complete starting five, everyone at natural positions...much deeper bench then last year arguably the best bench in the NBA. I think they will finish 5th behind clev,orl,bos,atl and make it to the second round in the playoffs.

Actually that's not true and could be one of the Raptors' weaknesses when all the pieces to the puzzle become clear and we know the final roster. Because Jack is a combo guard it becomes really unclear where Delfino (if he signs) fits in. He and Jack will be playing somewhat out of position. SG is a big question mark right now, as is backup SF, and even PG. There are a lot of legit question marks about the team. It'll still be better than last year though. We just don't know how much better.

tland22
07-16-2009, 01:10 PM
I'm sure a lot of Raps fans said the same thing about getting Jermaine O'Neal last year...


that point is fair enough! Of course all the Raptor fans are saying they will make yhe playoffs, which they wont because they play ZERO Defense, and their offense wont be quite good enough to make up for their lack of defense. Id say they surely got worse defensively.

Sean McG
07-16-2009, 01:23 PM
I'll say that they will be a better team next year, but I honestly don't think what they have done is convincing Bosh to stay. DeRozan I could see being one of the better players out of this draft, but he won't be an immediate factor and will take a few more years because he was just a Freshman last year too. IMO Hedo Turkoglu will just become a cap causality in a couple of years, and he is probably at his peak right now. The Cavs tried Szczerbiak, Smith, Wallace and West, they got Mo Williams the next year, now they traded for Shaq. The Heat are heavily rumoured to be bringing back Odom, trading for Boozer and possibly signing Iverson. These are moves that would make me want to stay, I just don't think Turkoglu and getting some bench players is making Bosh jump at an extension.

Bob_at_york
07-16-2009, 01:30 PM
I'll say that they will be a better team next year, but I honestly don't think what they have done is convincing Bosh to stay. DeRozan I could see being one of the better players out of this draft, but he won't be an immediate factor and will take a few more years because he was just a Freshman last year too. IMO Hedo Turkoglu will just become a cap causality in a couple of years, and he is probably at his peak right now. The Cavs tried Szczerbiak, Smith, Wallace and West, they got Mo Williams the next year, now they traded for Shaq. The Heat are heavily rumoured to be bringing back Odom, trading for Boozer and possibly signing Iverson. These are moves that would make me want to stay, I just don't think Turkoglu and getting some bench players is making Bosh jump at an extension.

Signing AI might not be a good idea, Boozer for the moment is only a one year rental (sortof) and let's not forget they have to give up Haslem to get him. Sure they Heat would be getting better but it isn't a perfect situation.

Bob_at_york
07-16-2009, 01:32 PM
I'm sure a lot of Raps fans said the same thing about getting Jermaine O'Neal last year...

they definitely were. I remember people talking about Bosh and JO as the new "Twin Towers" and such. It was silly.

dolfan720
07-16-2009, 01:43 PM
they inprove by getting Jack and Hedo and they dont inprove by????

THiiRTYONE
07-16-2009, 01:45 PM
I agree, great point. And i loved your point about their Defense.

The Raps wont make the playoffs. I would bet a good bit of money on that one. Because, who are they going to knock out of the playoffs....the bulls? the pistons? the heat? I dont think they'll be better than any of those teams, and those teams arent that great...though i like the Pistons right now.

lmfao, i bet on MY money that raptors will make playoffs, sure they might not win but they will be in the playoffs, so back off homie

vick27m
07-16-2009, 01:50 PM
they arent any better then they were

BALLER R
07-16-2009, 04:49 PM
i dont get how anyone can say this team will be in the Playoffs..... 8 teams get in..the 4 that will for sure get in are:

Cavs, Magic, Boston, Hawks.(4 teams)

The Pistons will be in, they were last year, now they are much better. Wade will take the Heat to the playoffs again. The Bulls, the Wizards and the 76ers will all be better than the Raptors...guarantee you that.

That is 9 teams right there better than the Raptors IMO, and according to last year. I doubt the Raps even finish ahead of the Bobcats...

Think about this, they wont make the playoffs. Too many teams better than them.

ill give you boston, magic and cavs..but atlanta didnt add anything to say that their goin to be better, as of right now miami isn't better than toronto, the bulls lost gordon how much will that affect them, and the 76ers now thats something else can u really say they will be better than toronto..the wizards had a far worst season than us..although they did have injuries but at the same time i think we did more to improve our team than they did so is they can have a BIG turn around why can't we..

FlakeyFool
07-16-2009, 04:51 PM
That's your argument to somebody saying the team is not terribly athletic?

Bosh and DeRozan sure, the other 3 are not tremendous athletes.

I wasn't saying they were tremendously athletic, but they can be athletic and take the ball to the hoop.

BALLER R
07-16-2009, 04:54 PM
that point is fair enough! Of course all the Raptor fans are saying they will make yhe playoffs, which they wont because they play ZERO Defense, and their offense wont be quite good enough to make up for their lack of defense. Id say they surely got worse defensively.

we lost marion thats it...we added evan,derozan,jack turk can play defense.and if we get rasho and delfino we have a far better defensive team this year than we did the last..o yea im pretty sure george can play defense and wright is known as good defender..so your tellin me that marion defense is better than all those guys combined...and i forgot to mention our big man bargnani

tland22
07-16-2009, 05:09 PM
NO THOSE GUYS CANT! I can even believe that you said we added deRozan...so that makes you better defensively...oh wait, yes I can believe it! Marion by far an away you guys best defender. Wright is okay...but like I been saying, ya'll 22nd last year defensively. LOL ya'll got no better. Your offense isnt good enuff to make up for piss poor defense that ya'll displayed...THEREFOOOORE no playoffs for you guys. It is quite simple.

ink
07-16-2009, 06:01 PM
NO THOSE GUYS CANT! I can even believe that you said we added deRozan...so that makes you better defensively...oh wait, yes I can believe it! Marion by far an away you guys best defender. Wright is okay...but like I been saying, ya'll 22nd last year defensively. LOL ya'll got no better. Your offense isnt good enuff to make up for piss poor defense that ya'll displayed...THEREFOOOORE no playoffs for you guys. It is quite simple.

:shrug: What is the big problem here man?? No one knows what's going to happen this season. Your opinion is different than some of the other posters. You don't have to get so upset about it. You're not even really saying anything Raptors fans haven't discussed in their own forum anyway, so just chill a bit ok?