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jlohm1
07-15-2009, 12:26 AM
alright. with the deadline coming up, ill go ahead and make this now


http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif please, especially fans from other team, talk about trades that are possible and not completely one sided like last years thread. if this happens again i will close the thread. http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif

mr. red
07-16-2009, 12:21 AM
I can see the Atkins deal getting done...

Weathers for Atkins--- the Rockies want RPs and have no room for Atkins.

For our sake..I would love to dump Weathers. The guy is terrible...please do not stick up for him. We have Masset who can step into the 8th inning role...Burton can come back and be a MRP.

Also would not mind seeing us move EE somewhere...do not want to see him used in a Rolen deal...but if we could get a young OF in return--maybe put him with a prospect to get Alex Rios?

I hope to see Arroyo go somewhere too--would not mind seeing him go to Arizona with EE and get Stephen Drew and someone back.

This is me just rambling...I know the basics of each players contract...but not sure what would work for each team. Just my thoughts.

I'd like to see something done...at least get us going in the right direction for next year.

I'll always wish for Holliday...

jlohm1
07-16-2009, 05:00 PM
why would we trade Weathers when he is good?

i sill say we should dump EE and Hernandez for him. this way they will get another 3rd baseman and a good catcher. we originally got Hernandez in case Hanigan couldnt start, and he has already pronen himself.

we just need to get rid of EE any way possible.

Freel for prez
07-16-2009, 05:02 PM
If we are going to get Atkins we will have to give up MUCH more than Weathers. They probably would want nothing to do with Weathers to be honest. EE and Arroyo have more value and we have some good prospects. If we could trade Arroyo, EE, and a good prospect for Rolen and Rios id be psyched, unfortunately I do not see this happening because of money issues. They need to go after Matt Holliday. I know this is a money issue too but I feel like hes the guy who would get us over the hump. A package of prospects along with Yonder Alonso should land him. Id do it because 1B will be occupied for years to come and Alonso can only play 1B. I disagree with trying to move Votto to left field because I would never touch a guy whose batting .350 and plays decent D. If the Reds do make a move (I do not think they will) it will be for some okay-to-above average player like a Willingham, Wiggington, or someone of that stature that wont hurt the wallet. I like where we are headed though...We are young and pitching is our strength. If Jocketty makes NO move, I will not be surprised or upset.

jlohm1
07-16-2009, 09:28 PM
Atkins is only hitting .230 though, so we can probably get him cheap

IowaAJ
07-16-2009, 11:34 PM
What do you guys think we would have to give up to get Luke Scott. He is very cheap only making 2.4 million and is signed through 2012. The Atkins for Weathers deal won't happen the Rockies called us this trade won't go down. I don't think we should trade EE he was hurt all year and he is starting to heat up were 5.5 gms back adding Scott could be a big move for us. He is hitting 305 with 18 hr's and 51 RBI's. 384 OPS, and 592 slugging %. This is the type of guy that would be a great addition for us. He is a lefty but we need a bat right handed or left handed.

Kinsm
07-16-2009, 11:43 PM
Arroyo has about zero value right now, when you factor in his downward sliding numbers and his albatross contract.

Doesn't matter though, don't expect any trades to acquire a bat.

IowaAJ
07-16-2009, 11:43 PM
Teahen and Dejesus could also be options if we can get a few more wins to at least contend. Teahen can play third or right or left field so I think he would be a nice fit here and again he is a lefty but we need a bat. Dejesus is an interesting player can play all 3 outfield positions and has a 714 OPS which would be a good leadoff hitter for us but we already have Willy so he might not be an option.

Willingham could also be a cheaper option at only 3 million dollars could add some right handed power to our lineup. I think we will add someone and I would love to get Dye or Holiday but I just don't think we want to add that much to the payrole.

IowaAJ
07-16-2009, 11:44 PM
Arroyo has about zero value right now, when you factor in his downward sliding numbers and his albatross contract.

Doesn't matter though, don't expect any trades to acquire a bat.

Jocketty has said he is looking for a bat numerous times why do you keep saying we won't add anybody.

Kinsm
07-16-2009, 11:52 PM
Let's assume for a second that to win the central division a team will have to win 87 games - which is the current projection. (the Reds are currently projected to win 76 at the moment)

The Reds (currently 42-46) would have to go 45-29 the rest of the way to reach the required mark. That's a second half WP % of .608, only two teams in all of baseball have been able to win at that rate thus far this year.

In comparison the Cardinals (currently 49-42) would only have to go 38-33 (.543 WP %) to hit the required 87 wins, the Brewers (currently 46-43) would have to go 41-32 (.562 WP %), the Cubs/Astros etc. And the wildcard, conceivably, will achieve more than 87 wins this year.

Will other teams make moves to better themselves? Probably. Could some of these teams implode? Definitely. Will all the teams in front of the Reds perform worse than them? Based on past occurrences, the percentage of that likelihood is close to zero. Have teams overcome lesser odds in the past? Not often but yes. Could the Reds play much better in the second half? It’s highly doubtful but theoretically possible. Were those teams better suited at the time than the current Reds? IMO, yes.

At this point anyone can say they are contending because they are only 5 games back, but in reality they are far from it. This team is incapable of going .608 the rest of the way with this lineup (worst OF in the majors now, no SS, streaky rehabbing 3bman, and a group of SP's who are Jekyll and Hyde - currently the 9th worst record in all of baseball, 2nd worst in their division).

That is why Baseball Prospectus computer model projects only a 3.5% chance of making the playoffs. They need to become sellers even if it is to just shed some payroll off of the second half to offset the drop in attendance that is sure to come in late August and September. All impending FA's who they don't intend to bring back next year should be sold for whatever they can get (Weathers, Hernandez, maybe Hairston), as well as Arroyo if they can work out a deal for a young SS. His value has declined immensely, therefore the Reds might have to include cash &/or a prospect...so be it. I personally would be really hesitant to trade Harang, I think he is still their ace going into next year, and is affordable as long as their #2 isn't making 12 million as well. Any youngster they intend on playing here next year should be given those - then pressure free - games to audition, and I don't mean all the backup IF'ers they've accumulated...I mean potential starters Stubbs, Heisey, and possibly even Valaika.

Kinsm
07-16-2009, 11:56 PM
Jocketty has said he is looking for a bat numerous times why do you keep saying we won't add anybody.

What do you expect him to say? "We aren't shopping for a bat because we're very confident that 1 bat won't make a difference, so fans you can stop showing up and players you can stop playing so hard." This is a business, it's about money and keeping butts in the seats, don't believe everything you hear. So far the only actual confirmed rumor anyone has come out with that the reds were interested in a bat was DeRosa, Atkins rumor was confirmed that COL called them, and that is about the limit of the rumors.

jlohm1
07-17-2009, 11:39 PM
Walt Jocketty is ********, so i wouldnt be surprised if he didnt get anyone.

crc9246
07-18-2009, 11:58 AM
Would anyone trade Arroyo to the Yankees for Sergio Mitre and Cody Ransom

IowaAJ
07-18-2009, 12:28 PM
Would anyone trade Arroyo to the Yankees for Sergio Mitre and Cody Ransom

Not if we don't fall out of the race.

Kinsm
07-18-2009, 01:12 PM
Would anyone trade Arroyo to the Yankees for Sergio Mitre and Cody Ransom

Absolutely not, get out of here with that crap.

IowaAJ
07-19-2009, 01:51 PM
What do you guys think we can get for Harang if we do decide to trade him. I would expect a top prospect is he worth that much or is he worth more then that whats your guys opinions on him.

jlohm1
07-24-2009, 12:38 PM
Would anyone trade Arroyo to the Yankees for Sergio Mitre and Cody Ransom

please, especially fans from other team, talk about trades that are possible and not completely one sided like last years thread. if this happens again i will close the thread.

this is exactly what im talking about!!! keep it our of here. it was yankee fans who ruined it last year too!!!

jlohm1
07-24-2009, 12:41 PM
What do you guys think we can get for Harang if we do decide to trade him. I would expect a top prospect is he worth that much or is he worth more then that whats your guys opinions on him.

his value has undoubtedly decreased over the last 2 years. we could probably still get a lot for him though. probably 1 top prospect or 2 decent prospects. after the deadline, probably just 2 decent prospects though. a top prospect couldnt pass through wavers.

jlohm1
07-25-2009, 12:07 PM
i think its time to do big trade to improve our offense.

coltsncardsfan
07-29-2009, 12:04 PM
Just curious, what do you guys think it would take for the Cards to land Harang? I know it's taboo to trade within the division and Jocketty might not want to help the team that fired him, but I think he could thrive with a change of address, and under Duncan's watch. Would the Reds take a mid-level prospect in order to unload Harang's salary? Or do they see him helping a year or two down the road when your young guys are ready to make a run? Obviously if it is the latter then the asking price may be too high.

I think with the Cards latest deals they have to be the favorite to win the division, so they don't exactly need him, but I also think Harang is an exceptional pitcher that has had some bad luck recently and adding another solid SP makes the Cards the favorite to win the NL.

Tragedy
07-29-2009, 12:14 PM
i think its time to do big trade to improve our offense.
I think it's time to trade away pieces to set up for next year, such as Harang and Arroyo. I think that would make a bit more sense - Especially since the Cardinals went out and got Holliday and Lugo to try and separate themselves from the NL Central.

PhilsFanForLife
07-29-2009, 03:33 PM
My apologies if this is a posted thread already but I have not seen one. Very minor deal but an FYI per foxsports for you Reds fans t otalk about:


Reds get Balentien from Mariners 3:11 p.m.
The Reds have acquired outfielder Wladimir Balentien from the Mariners for right-hander Robert Manuel in a minor deal.

Balentien was on Seattle's big-league roster until Saturday, when his contract was designated for assignment in order to make room for rookie outfielder Michael Saunders.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9866498/MLB-trade-deadline-buzz:-Wednesday's-edition

IowaAJ
07-29-2009, 03:52 PM
I like this trade Wladimir is a young player only 24 years old with tons of power he does strikeout a lot but this is a no risk big reward trade.

IowaAJ
07-29-2009, 03:57 PM
Balentien has had some plate discipline issues in the majors to this point in his career, but he is just 24 years old and didn’t have the same issue in the minor leagues (in 2008 he had 32 walks and 49 strikeouts). In 2007 and 2008 he hit a combined .283/.359/.534 with 42 HR, 44 doubles and 4 triples in 710 at bats. The upside is certainly there for this kid, he just needs some help to put it all together.

http://redsminorleagues.com/2009/07/29/cincinnati-reds-acquire-wladimir-balentien/

IowaAJ
07-29-2009, 04:19 PM
It sounds like Rolen is the next guy we are trying to acquire and Harang could be part of a package to get him.


As Friday's non-waivers trade deadline creeps closer, the rumors circulate. One involving the Cincinnati Reds acquiring third baseman Scott Rolen from Toronto remains alive and kicking.

Also there are rumors of the departure of pitcher Aaron Harang, maybe as part of the deal that would bring Rolen to Cincinnati.




http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cincinnati-reds/trade-rumors-swirling-around-harang-rolen-225938.html

MattColby
07-29-2009, 05:11 PM
Can anyone give a scouting report on Robert Manuel?

Kinsm
07-29-2009, 06:03 PM
I like this trade Wladimir is a young player only 24 years old with tons of power he does strikeout a lot but this is a no risk big reward trade.

I disagree. There are so many players who come up through the minors who can hit for power but have horrible plate discipline (can't hit anything with movement) who don't make it....Wladimir is Willy Mo and Laynce Nix esque. Secondly he was DFA'd so it should not have taken last years minor league relief pitcher of the year to get him. Manuel is probably nothing more than a 7th inning guy, but that is still useful especially when Lincoln is hurt, Weathers and Rhodes are near 40 and could be traded. The Reds really don't have much in line to come up and relieve....Ramon Ramirez? I think Bill Bavasi had alot to do with this trade, and it does seem like a Bowden deal (guy has tools). Plus, it's another excuse for WJ to leave Heisey in AAA and Frazier in AA, I believe they need to be up here sooner rather than later to see whether or not they can be our LF'er next season. I would expect Heisey to struggle a bit, but that is a good thing IMO, it tells them what to work on in AFL and S.T.

Kinsm
07-29-2009, 06:13 PM
Can anyone give a scouting report on Robert Manuel?

A smart, efficient pitcher who comes right at the batter. Keeps hitters off-balance with a nice slider and good changeup and puts them away with a sneaky heater that tops out in the lower nineties. Gets a lot of strikeouts for a control-first type pitcher, but will not blow the fastball by many. Fairly versatile but doesn't really have the raw stuff for either starting or closing regularly in the majors. Overall an above average middle-reliever....could have a long career as a 7th inning guy, is major league ready.

Last years minor league reliever of the year winner.

MattColby
07-29-2009, 06:25 PM
I disagree. There are so many players who come up through the minors who can hit for power but have horrible plate discipline (can't hit anything with movement) who don't make it....Wladimir is Willy Mo and Laynce Nix esque. Secondly he was DFA'd so it should not have taken last years minor league relief pitcher of the year to get him. Manuel is probably nothing more than a 7th inning guy, but that is still useful especially when Lincoln is hurt, Weathers and Rhodes are near 40 and could be traded. The Reds really don't have much in line to come up and relieve....Ramon Ramirez? I think Bill Bavasi had alot to do with this trade, and it does seem like a Bowden deal (guy has tools). Plus, it's another excuse for WJ to leave Heisey in AAA and Frazier in AA, I believe they need to be up here sooner rather than later to see whether or not they can be our LF'er next season. I would expect Heisey to struggle a bit, but that is a good thing IMO, it tells them what to work on in AFL and S.T.

Willy Mo is a very good example. I'm kind of surprised we got that much in return also.


A smart, efficient pitcher who comes right at the batter. Keeps hitters off-balance with a nice slider and good changeup and puts them away with a sneaky heater that tops out in the lower nineties. Gets a lot of strikeouts for a control-first type pitcher, but will not blow the fastball by many. Fairly versatile but doesn't really have the raw stuff for either starting or closing regularly in the majors. Overall an above average middle-reliever....could have a long career as a 7th inning guy, is major league ready.

Last years minor league reliever of the year winner.

Thanks.

Kinsm
07-29-2009, 07:22 PM
Just curious, what do you guys think it would take for the Cards to land Harang?

I see this as a no chance trade. For one you rarely see trades in the same division, noone wants to help out their prime competitors. Add to that the fact that it wouldn't be just a 2 month rental (meaning he'd face the Reds at least all next season). Plus, the Cards have traded away a load of prospects over the last 3 weeks (5-6 of their top ten), I don't think the Cards have what the Reds would desire...a promising young SS, LF'er, or SP'er. Plus, the Reds goofy owner still thinks they are in contention...so getting rid of IMO their best/healthiest pitcher with no replacement makes no sense.

Kinsm
07-29-2009, 07:24 PM
It sounds like Rolen is the next guy we are trying to acquire and Harang could be part of a package to get him.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cincinnati-reds/trade-rumors-swirling-around-harang-rolen-225938.html

It would have to be a 3 way deal, TOR wants to cut payroll...that trade doesn't achieve that for them. Any trade involving Rolen would have to include EE going the other way.

IowaAJ
07-29-2009, 08:09 PM
Sounds like the Angels could be a team to keep an eye on. They missed out on Lee and if they don't want to give up a lot to get Halladay they might turn to Harang or Arroyo so this could be an interesting trade deadline.

Kinsm
07-29-2009, 10:33 PM
Sounds like the Angels could be a team to keep an eye on. They missed out on Lee and if they don't want to give up a lot to get Halladay they might turn to Harang or Arroyo so this could be an interesting trade deadline.

And yet the value of both those guys continues to plummet...it's disgusting.

IowaAJ
07-30-2009, 10:52 AM
Reds putting together a package for Rolen.


The Cincinnati Reds met last night to decide to come up with a package to land third baseman Scott Rolen.


http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/bob_elliott/2009/07/30/10308921-sun.html

Bigblock63
07-30-2009, 11:21 AM
Is anyone else wondering why we fired Krivsky and hired Jocketty?

This lastest trade, Robert Manuel for Wladimir Balentien, is worthless and horrible. All we got was a right handed version of Nix and lost a good piece of next years bull pen.

What a joke.

IowaAJ
07-30-2009, 01:03 PM
We have a ton of pitchers just like Manuel who have higher upside and Balentien was once a top prospect he has played for 2 years give the guy a chance before you say this was a stupid trade. This is a no risk huge reward in my oppinion.

IowaAJ
07-30-2009, 01:35 PM
The Cincinnati Reds are talking to the Blue Jays about the possibility of acquiring infielder Scott Rolen in exchange for minor-league prospect Yonder Alonso. The first baseman is a product of the University of Miami and carries a big bat. He was the Reds' first pick (seventh overall) in the 2008 draft.

--JOE McDONALD



http://soxblog.projo.com/2009/07/dodgers-now-fro.html

IowaAJ
07-30-2009, 01:37 PM
Rolen update


No mention of Alonso from him, but Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun tweets, "Looks like Rolen to Reds has a 'good chance' of getting done."

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/nonhalladay-blue-jays-chatter.html

Kinsm
07-30-2009, 03:31 PM
We have a ton of pitchers just like Manuel.

Like who?

jlohm1
07-30-2009, 05:29 PM
Just curious, what do you guys think it would take for the Cards to land Harang? I know it's taboo to trade within the division and Jocketty might not want to help the team that fired him, but I think he could thrive with a change of address, and under Duncan's watch. Would the Reds take a mid-level prospect in order to unload Harang's salary? Or do they see him helping a year or two down the road when your young guys are ready to make a run? Obviously if it is the latter then the asking price may be too high.

I think with the Cards latest deals they have to be the favorite to win the division, so they don't exactly need him, but I also think Harang is an exceptional pitcher that has had some bad luck recently and adding another solid SP makes the Cards the favorite to win the NL.

i think it will take more than 1 mid level prospect. probably 2 or 3, depending on how good they are. and i dont see him being traded to the cards. sorry.

IowaAJ
07-30-2009, 07:51 PM
Like who?

Roenicke, Fisher, Masset, Burton, Zach Stewart,

jlohm1
07-30-2009, 09:37 PM
4:13pm: ESPN's Peter Gammons says the Reds "backed off a potential deal" for Rolen. The Reds are actually hoping to move some contracts, and will listen on Bronson Arroyo, David Weathers, Aaron Harang, and Arthur Rhodes. Plus there's the issue of the Jays not wanting to trade Rolen if they keep Halladay.mlbtr

Kinsm
07-30-2009, 09:54 PM
Roenicke, Fisher, Masset, Burton, Zach Stewart,

Uhhh, 4 are already in the bullpen so you can't count them. Stewart is moving back to SP next year (they only have him pitching in relief now to save his arm). So if they were to trade Weathers or Rhodes or someone else get injured you'd have Ramon Ramirez coming up to pitch in the bullpen. You can't say there is no risk, they took a position they had depth in and now have no depth.

IowaAJ
07-31-2009, 01:06 AM
yeah and they will be there for years to come but i do see your point I just think taking a shot on a once top prospect is worth the risk of trading a guy who just has so so stuff.

Kinsm
07-31-2009, 03:41 PM
The Yankees acquired Jerry Hairston Jr. from the Reds, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post.

Kinsm
07-31-2009, 03:47 PM
According to Jon Heyman the Reds have traded for Scott Rolen.