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Mile High Champ
07-10-2009, 10:33 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember but I conducted a poll at the start of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

I also removed Josh Smith from the thread, going back over his games started, he should be under the PF list. Thats where he will go..

PG Rankings DONT FORGET TO VOTE!!

1) Lebron James
2) Carmelo Anthony
3) Kevin Durant
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Andre Iguodala
7)
8)
9)
10)

Last Years SF rankings:


1) Lebron James
2) Paul Pierce
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Caron Butler
5) Ron Artest
6) Shawn Marion
7) Josh Smith
8) Richard Jefferson
9) Lamar Odom
10) Tayshaun Prince

Mile High Champ
07-10-2009, 10:35 AM
It was hedo for me in the last round, gotta take him here... best guy on the board.

UofA
07-10-2009, 10:40 AM
I went Stephen Jackson

Tblaze
07-10-2009, 10:41 AM
Wanted Gerald Wallace, but realistically it should be Hedo.

jrice9
07-10-2009, 10:42 AM
Its Hedo over Butler by a small margin

CELTICS4LYFE
07-10-2009, 10:51 AM
Ruuudy ruuudy ruuuudy

raptors_fanatic
07-10-2009, 10:52 AM
hedo then butler....after that seems like a close race, jackson might pull-away but prince,gay&artest could put up a fight

FOBolous
07-10-2009, 10:55 AM
has to be Hedo. He was the MVP of the Orlando team that reached the finals this past year

kbaxter34
07-10-2009, 10:55 AM
Its close between Butler & Artest but I got to go will Caron. I still don't understand the infatuation with Turkoglu. Last year he wasn't even in the top 10, he has a worst year then last and all the sudden he is the 5th, 6th ,7th best SF. I just don't get it.

Butler had just as good a year as last year and now he drops from 4 to 8. Butler is a better scorer, rebounder, shooter, and defender then Glu. Butler should take this all the way.

tromo9
07-10-2009, 11:04 AM
stephen jacksonnnnnnn

TheKing23
07-10-2009, 11:05 AM
Again, close thing, but it's gotta be Caron for me.
Hedo excelled in the Magic offense, reliant on 3pt shooting, but I think Caron has a better all round game.

ManRam
07-10-2009, 11:10 AM
Hedo. He was the offensive leader of a Finals team. Caron might have slightly better numbers, but Hedo is a more impactful player.

kbaxter34
07-10-2009, 11:15 AM
I didn't even realize that Jackson avg 6.5 ast. This should really be a race between Butler and Jackson followed by Artest, Wallace, Jefferson and then maybe Hedo

sixer04fan
07-10-2009, 11:24 AM
vote for caron!

EL HEAT
07-10-2009, 11:33 AM
Turkoglu

op12
07-10-2009, 11:42 AM
butler then artest and it should have been them before iggy.

Trouble87
07-10-2009, 11:43 AM
Wallace

Mile High Champ
07-10-2009, 11:49 AM
All about Turk here..

tromo9
07-10-2009, 12:21 PM
stephen jackson
PPG
20.7
RPG
5.10
APG
6.5
SPG
1.5

Chronz
07-10-2009, 12:22 PM
I went with Iggy last one because I didnt want to see Hedo win it, but Caron is the guy I had a tough time not voting for in the last round so I gotta take him here.


Hedo. He was the offensive leader of a Finals team. Caron might have slightly better numbers, but Hedo is a more impactful player.
If Caron were on the Magic he'd be offensive leader and do a better job at it. Caron has MUCH better #'s. Dont see what makes Hedo more impactful, we'll see that in Toronto.

Chronz
07-10-2009, 12:23 PM
stephen jackson
PPG
20.7
RPG
5.10
APG
6.5

The most overrated player of today, pace adjust those stats, account for minutes and efficiency and you'll see that 20-5-6 isnt always worth what you think it is.

cowboyz180
07-10-2009, 12:24 PM
turk gets my vote

ajj22
07-10-2009, 12:25 PM
has to be Hedo. He was the MVP of the Orlando team that reached the finals this past year

This Hedo business is getting way out of hand. He had a few good series in the playoffs (which is apparently all that anybody watches), and was really not THAT great during the regular season. Suddenly he's better than caron butler or gerald wallace, is the "MVP" of our team over dwight howard, and earns $53 milion. I'll always be grateful that he helped our team get to the finals, but in my opinion, he's getting pretty overrated.

masalex1205
07-10-2009, 12:32 PM
Gerald Wallace, the most underrated player in the NBA

-Homer

JaySmoke
07-10-2009, 12:35 PM
hedo is a bum

J_M_B
07-10-2009, 01:05 PM
Caron Butler followed by Hedo Turkoglu

bogdanrom
07-10-2009, 01:07 PM
This is definitely Butler. Butler>Hedo any day.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-10-2009, 01:14 PM
Caron is more better all around but I'd rather have Turkaglu.

Also, Turkaglu wasn on a good team.

ManRam
07-10-2009, 01:19 PM
If Caron were on the Magic he'd be offensive leader and do a better job at it. Caron has MUCH better #'s. Dont see what makes Hedo more impactful, we'll see that in Toronto.

Hedo was practically our point guard. The ball was always in his hands late in games. I'm sure Butler is that type of player. A 6-10 point forward can be a huge asset, and it was for use. He was our offense. It started with him, and often ended with him. Shard can't create his own shot as a PF. Our SGs were weak. Rafer didn't do much in the playoffs. Howard's offensive game was exposed. The one constant, Hedo running the offense. It's not always about numbers. Hedo's size and versatility give him a huge advantage. Until Butler carries a team half as far as Hedo, he's not better than him. And yes, Hedo carried us most of the time.

EastCoastBaller
07-10-2009, 01:22 PM
Caron Butler!

Did U C VC?
07-10-2009, 01:24 PM
Artest...basically carried Houston to 7 with the eventually champs... Hedo only could get them to 5 even with Superman in the finals...also artest is with LA next year & Hedo is gonna get lost north of the border...lol...

EastCoastBaller
07-10-2009, 01:24 PM
I'm not a big fan of hedo yet.... And plus I got Caron Butler autograph!

KupaLsiVC15
07-10-2009, 01:27 PM
Hedo!!!!

JMKnick33
07-10-2009, 01:29 PM
I know Turkoglu had a great playoffs this year and all.. but guys, Caron Butler is better than him!

Everybody's still caught up on Hedo making it to the Finals and all... I think he's being a little too OVERRATED!

Brooklyn Mets
07-10-2009, 01:31 PM
Wanted Gerald Wallace, but realistically it should be Hedo.

same here..

bogdanrom
07-10-2009, 01:34 PM
Hedo was practically our point guard. The ball was always in his hands late in games. I'm sure Butler is that type of player. A 6-10 point forward can be a huge asset, and it was for use. He was our offense. It started with him, and often ended with him. Shard can't create his own shot as a PF. Our SGs were weak. Rafer didn't do much in the playoffs. Howard's offensive game was exposed. The one constant, Hedo running the offense. It's not always about numbers. Hedo's size and versatility give him a huge advantage. Until Butler carries a team half as far as Hedo, he's not better than him. And yes, Hedo carried us most of the time.

Oh yeah he carried you? With Dwight Howard, arguably the best center in the game right now, Rashard Lewis heated up in the playoffs and especially against Cleveland and Mickael Pietrus. Butler would have done a better job than Hedo. And Hedo's numbers actually went down in the playoffs.

Regular: 16.8 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.9 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 41% FG, 35.6% 3FG
Playoffs: 15.8 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 4.8 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 42% FG, 38.5% 3FG

If you replaced Butler with Hedo, Hedo couldn't carry the team to the playoffs like Butler did two years ago, and Butler would have carried the Magic further. They would have pushed the Lakers the at least 7 games.

t_kobe24
07-10-2009, 02:00 PM
I didn't even realize that Jackson avg 6.5 ast. This should really be a race between Butler and Jackson followed by Artest, Wallace, Jefferson and then maybe Hedo

WOW man...you sure about that...i think your just a hater...just to say jefferson made me laugh...butler yah i could understand but check the polls bro...don't be a homer...stop playn NBA 2K9 and watch some basketball

Mile High Champ
07-10-2009, 02:15 PM
This Hedo business is getting way out of hand. He had a few good series in the playoffs (which is apparently all that anybody watches), and was really not THAT great during the regular season. Suddenly he's better than caron butler or gerald wallace, is the "MVP" of our team over dwight howard, and earns $53 milion. I'll always be grateful that he helped our team get to the finals, but in my opinion, he's getting pretty overrated.

I could see an argument for butler but come on.. Wallace? Really, he has always been on bad teams and has really never shown any progression over the last few years. I don't see any reason why should be even in the top 10. For the rest of the top 10, Hedo, Butler, Jackson, Artest in that order but hey its all about opinion.

Mile High Champ
07-10-2009, 02:17 PM
I know Turkoglu had a great playoffs this year and all.. but guys, Caron Butler is better than him!

Everybody's still caught up on Hedo making it to the Finals and all... I think he's being a little too OVERRATED!

You could say the exact same thing about Durant and Iggy in this SF thread..

Mile High Champ
07-10-2009, 02:19 PM
Oh yeah he carried you? With Dwight Howard, arguably the best center in the game right now, Rashard Lewis heated up in the playoffs and especially against Cleveland and Mickael Pietrus. Butler would have done a better job than Hedo. And Hedo's numbers actually went down in the playoffs.

Regular: 16.8 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.9 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 41% FG, 35.6% 3FG
Playoffs: 15.8 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 4.8 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 42% FG, 38.5% 3FG

If you replaced Butler with Hedo, Hedo couldn't carry the team to the playoffs like Butler did two years ago, and Butler would have carried the Magic further. They would have pushed the Lakers the at least 7 games.

You have nothing to back that up, its all opinion. You don't know if Butler could of done better with the magic. All I saw from hedo in the playoffs was some decent to good defense, clutch shooting, a great finisher around the basket and a guy who wanted the ball in his hands when the game was on the line... Hedo is number 7..

t_kobe24
07-10-2009, 02:24 PM
You have nothing to back that up, its all opinion. You don't know if Butler could of done better with the magic. All I saw from hedo in the playoffs was some decent to good defense, clutch shooting, a great finisher around the basket and a guy who wanted the ball in his hands when the game was on the line... Hedo is number 7..

couldnt agree more buddy well said

bogdanrom
07-10-2009, 02:30 PM
You have nothing to back that up, its all opinion. You don't know if Butler could of done better with the magic. All I saw from hedo in the playoffs was some decent to good defense, clutch shooting, a great finisher around the basket and a guy who wanted the ball in his hands when the game was on the line... Hedo is number 7..

But I do know that Hedo could have never brought the Wizards to the playoffs like Butler did two years ago, when Arenas was out. To me the only reason everyone is saying Hedo is better is because he is coming off a high in the playoffs, similar to the situation last year with Paul Pierce.

Mile High Champ
07-10-2009, 02:42 PM
But I do know that Hedo could have never brought the Wizards to the playoffs like Butler did two years ago, when Arenas was out. To me the only reason everyone is saying Hedo is better is because he is coming off a high in the playoffs, similar to the situation last year with Paul Pierce.

Again thats your opinion, it does not make it fact, Unless Hedo played that season for the wizards in that exact situation, we will never know. Its pure speculation. I think Hedo has earned the praise he is getting. I personally have no problem with Butler in this spot if Hedo were not to get it. I just think Hedo did a lot over the last year to prove he is a big time player, especially in the playoffs when Howard went through dry spells where it seemed as if he was not even on the court. Stats are not always the telling story of how good a player truly is, there are many other factors that go into being a great player, teamwork, clutch shooting, ball handling, playmaking, defensive awarness. Stats can be beyond misleading. There are guys in the league today that average close to two steals a game and many people call them good defenders because of it. When in reality all those players do is sit in the passing lanes and hope something comes their way, that certainly does not make you a good player because you have 2 steals per game beside your name. Sometimes fans (I am not saying you) do not think to look pas the standard Points per game and rebounds per game statistics when evaluating how good a player is.

At this point I feel like Hedo could do more for most teams in the league to make them better than Butler could. But again they are both great players...

bogdanrom
07-10-2009, 02:56 PM
Again thats your opinion, it does not make it fact, Unless Hedo played that season for the wizards in that exact situation, we will never know. Its pure speculation. I think Hedo has earned the praise he is getting. I personally have no problem with Butler in this spot if Hedo were not to get it. I just think Hedo did a lot over the last year to prove he is a big time player, especially in the playoffs when Howard went through dry spells where it seemed as if he was not even on the court. Stats are not always the telling story of how good a player truly is, there are many other factors that go into being a great player, teamwork, clutch shooting, ball handling, playmaking, defensive awarness. Stats can be beyond misleading. There are guys in the league today that average close to two steals a game and people call them good defenders because of it when in reality all they do is sit in the passing lanes and try and pick off a pass. Sometimes fans (I am not saying you) do not think to look pas the standards Points per game and rebounds per game statistics.

At this point I feel like Hedo could do more for most teams in the league to make them better than Butler could. But again they are both great players...

I agree that its not just about stats and that they're both great players. When Kobe wanted to leave LA because they're weren't competing he said he wanted to come to Washington, just so he can play with Butler again. Butler is probably the second best all around SF in the NBA behind of course Lebron. Two years ago Lebron, Kobe and Caron were the only players to average at least 20 PPG, 6 RPG, and 4.9 APG and 1 SPG. Plus Butler has been more consistent than Hedo for years now. Hedo had a break out season last year, but Butler has been doing the same for at least 3 years now.

Ace33Bone
07-10-2009, 02:57 PM
Stephen Jax

zambo4president
07-10-2009, 03:10 PM
I went Stephen Jackson

x2

Chronz
07-10-2009, 03:12 PM
Hedo was practically our point guard. The ball was always in his hands late in games. I'm sure Butler is that type of player. A 6-10 point forward can be a huge asset, and it was for use. He was our offense. It started with him, and often ended with him. Shard can't create his own shot as a PF. Our SGs were weak. Rafer didn't do much in the playoffs. Howard's offensive game was exposed. The one constant, Hedo running the offense.
Theyre different players but its not like Caron hasnt improved his passing game, and I dont see why people keep mentioning Hedo's height, yes its an advantage for him and allows him to create plays for others, but answer me this. Would you rather have a player who performs because of his height, or the player who performs at a higher level without it? Every player has his own physical advantage and mental edge, having a quick first step and devastating body control is a huge asset as well. Its how they put those assets to use that matters IMO.

Rashard has and always will be an elite outlet scorer. His role is to let the defense collapse, find the open spot, and finish the play. There are literally only a handfull of players who can do this at the rate Shard can, to be able to play so effectively without the ball is an asset that will remain whether or not Hedo is in the game, Rashard will give you that, and will see no difference in his efficiency. His combination of Height and quickness allow him. Its this ability that helped Hedo's game as much as you think Hedo helped his. Its a mutually benefitual relationship.

As for Dwight, the thing about being exposed, is that it implies you didnt know what you were looking at beforehand. Dwight wasnt exposed in my eyes, hes a dominant finisher that sucks in defenses. Hes getting better at creating for himself and others, but even if that never comes around hes still an immensely better offensive bigman than most teams have.


It's not always about numbers.
Never said it was, you brought up #'s. I merely stated that they werent even close. I dont like your word choice here, its not ALL about numbers, but they are always considered.


Hedo's size and versatility give him a huge advantage.
Apparently not enough of an advantage to warrant a Caron-esque contract, or produce at a healthy Caron-esque level.


Until Butler carries a team half as far as Hedo, he's not better than him. And yes, Hedo carried us most of the time.
Why, when no player carries a team on his own? Why isnt it until Hedo proves he can produce at an elite level, he wont be better than Caron.



Hypothetically, lets say Hedo ends up missing the playoffs next year, are you all of sudden going to suggest hes not as good of a player because of it? Seems unfair, you put too much stock into team success.

dre1990
07-10-2009, 03:12 PM
Andre Iguodala is overrated

Ron Artest > Hedo

Chronz
07-10-2009, 03:15 PM
Oh yeah he carried you? With Dwight Howard, arguably the best center in the game right now, Rashard Lewis heated up in the playoffs and especially against Cleveland and Mickael Pietrus. Butler would have done a better job than Hedo. And Hedo's numbers actually went down in the playoffs.

Regular: 16.8 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.9 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 41% FG, 35.6% 3FG
Playoffs: 15.8 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 4.8 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 42% FG, 38.5% 3FG

If you replaced Butler with Hedo, Hedo couldn't carry the team to the playoffs like Butler did two years ago, and Butler would have carried the Magic further. They would have pushed the Lakers the at least 7 games.

Be fair, when teams go that far deep into the playoffs, their #'s tend to drop down as the level of competition increases. When a player gos deep and sees little or an elevated change, or if he consistently raises his #'s against quality playoff teams, then you have a true star. And Id say Arenas did most of the heavy lifting for Washington but I see your point. You replace Hedo with Caron and the Wizards probably miss the playoffs.

Bucks24226
07-10-2009, 03:17 PM
Ruuudy ruuudy ruuuudy

x2:p

bogdanrom
07-10-2009, 03:17 PM
Be fair, when teams go that far deep into the playoffs, their #'s tend to drop down as the level of competition increases. When a player gos deep and sees little or an elevated change, or if he consistently raises his #'s against quality playoff teams, then you have a true star.

But the top players almost every time increase they productivity in the playoffs no matter the competition. And I know the decrease is very small but to me he had games when he looked horrible, and he was just chucking up shots.

Chronz
07-10-2009, 03:18 PM
You have nothing to back that up, its all opinion. You don't know if Butler could of done better with the magic. All I saw from hedo in the playoffs was some decent to good defense, clutch shooting, a great finisher around the basket and a guy who wanted the ball in his hands when the game was on the line... Hedo is number 7..

He has history on his side, teams that add players who put up better #'s (By #'s I dont mean that per game crap) tend to see better results. Upgrading positions usually does that.

Hedo is probably #9, Id still rather have Artest

HuRRiCaNeS324
07-10-2009, 03:24 PM
Definitely ima vote caron. Is this the first position that you guys have voted on? Like have you guys voted for any of the other four positions yet?

kbaxter34
07-10-2009, 03:24 PM
WOW man...you sure about that...i think your just a hater...just to say jefferson made me laugh...butler yah i could understand but check the polls bro...don't be a homer...stop playn NBA 2K9 and watch some basketball

I am a hater. I'm hating all this hype. Hedo is overrated. His playoff hype is out of control. He wasn't the 2nd best player on his team. Rashard Lewis was better then him, and to say he carried his team is asinine. Hedo is replaceable, Dwight Howard, not so much. He shoots 41% from the floor. That's not carrying anyone.

As for Jefferson in one of his worst seasons he averaged more points, far better 3p%, better fg %, less turnovers, same amount of stls and blks, and was close in rebounds and ft%. The only thing Hedo had better stats on is assists and thats just because he runs point a lot.

Will everyone please get of Hedo's nuts

IversonIsKrazy
07-10-2009, 03:26 PM
Iggy is amazingly overrated, i mean wow, he sure isnt #6. Anyways, i've bin saying Stephen Jackson, i mean 21ppg and 6.5 apg is impressive until i saw 41.4% FG, thas really really low, hes bin under 44% FG except 1 season, his career high in FG % was 45%. Man this guy sure isnt efficent.

Hedo's just got terrible D, so gotta go with Caron here.

kbaxter34
07-10-2009, 03:27 PM
Definitely ima vote caron. Is this the first position that you guys have voted on? Like have you guys voted for any of the other four positions yet?

PG and SG are done not sure about PF and C

Chronz
07-10-2009, 03:27 PM
But the top players almost every time increase they productivity in the playoffs no matter the competition. And I know the decrease is very small but to me he had games when he looked horrible, and he was just chucking up shots.
Your a Philly fan right, maybe you focused too much on that series? But yea he was beyond awful that series, I could never imagine Caron struggling that much for the majority of a series against anyone in the playoffs.

kbaxter34
07-10-2009, 03:31 PM
Iggy is amazingly overrated, i mean wow, he sure isnt #6. Anyways, i've bin saying Stephen Jackson, i mean 21ppg and 6.5 apg is impressive until i saw 41.4% FG, thas really really low, hes bin under 44% FG except 1 season, his career high in FG % was 45%. Man this guy sure isnt efficent.

Hedo's just got terrible D, so gotta go with Caron here.

Hedos FG% is just as impressive at 41.3%, and for someone that is supposively such a great 3pt shooter he only shot 35.6% which is not great by any means

Chronz
07-10-2009, 03:44 PM
Hedos FG% is just as impressive at 41.3%, and for someone that is supposively such a great 3pt shooter he only shot 35.6% which is not great by any means
Hedo vs Stephen Jackson is much closer than Hedo vs Caron. Everything people say about Hedo, Stephen Jackson does. Hes a pointforward, only he turns it over more, plays better defense, while Hedo is slightly more efficient offensively and better on the glass.

bballboy9809
07-10-2009, 03:57 PM
Hedo
07-08 19.5 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.0 APG, 0.9 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 45.6 FG%, 40.0 3pt%
08-09 16.8 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.9 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 41.3 FG%, 35.6 3pt%

i no numbers arent everything, but as u can c his numbers were alot bettr last year and were bettr in EVERY stat. people are just on his nuts because of his finals run, also stephen jackson's numbers are inflated, all the warriors do is run up and down the court shooting as many shots as possible, sure he avgs 20.7 PPG but go look at his FG%, the choice here is caron

sanfranfan1210
07-10-2009, 04:00 PM
Artest

shonk688
07-10-2009, 04:41 PM
I voted Butler, but I cant argue if you voted Hedo

t_kobe24
07-10-2009, 04:55 PM
I am a hater. I'm hating all this hype. Hedo is overrated. His playoff hype is out of control. He wasn't the 2nd best player on his team. Rashard Lewis was better then him, and to say he carried his team is asinine. Hedo is replaceable, Dwight Howard, not so much. He shoots 41% from the floor. That's not carrying anyone.

As for Jefferson in one of his worst seasons he averaged more points, far better 3p%, better fg %, less turnovers, same amount of stls and blks, and was close in rebounds and ft%. The only thing Hedo had better stats on is assists and thats just because he runs point a lot.

Will everyone please get of Hedo's nuts

hedo is clutch in the 4th quarter behindclutch in game time decisions....come on Jefferson where is he on any list...and wallace is good but not up there...steven jackson no comment..butler is the only argument here

dtmagnet
07-10-2009, 05:07 PM
I chose Butler but Hedo is close behind him.

Iron24th
07-10-2009, 05:20 PM
Butler and Artest.

Zefflin
07-10-2009, 05:21 PM
Turks.

Mane
07-10-2009, 05:23 PM
Caron Butler is MUCH better than Hedo.. Hedo is a product of playoff hype.

Zefflin
07-10-2009, 05:24 PM
Clutch.

bogdanrom
07-10-2009, 05:56 PM
Your a Philly fan right, maybe you focused too much on that series? But yea he was beyond awful that series, I could never imagine Caron struggling that much for the majority of a series against anyone in the playoffs.

No. Not even. Look at my avatar and signature. Yes he had some great games during the playoffs, but he also had horrible games too. Let's compare the two.

Scoring: Caron by a little
Defense: Caron easily
Rebounding: Caron by a little
Passing: Even
Accuracy(FG)- Caron by a little

I'm not saying that there is a huge gap between the two. They are two very similar players, but almost everything Hedo does Butler does a little better. Right now, Butler should be at worst the 6th best SF in the NBA. But that shows how underrated he is. But I'm definitely picking Hedo after this.

Bruno
07-10-2009, 08:31 PM
Butler healthy is way better than Hedo.

Vinny642
07-10-2009, 08:41 PM
I picked Wallace but
its Hedo
Butler
then idk- Gay, Wallace or Artest

GSW fan
07-10-2009, 09:43 PM
Butler then Hedo

todu82
07-11-2009, 12:41 AM
Hedo