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Cubs Win
07-08-2009, 12:03 PM
I liked the pick on draft night although many people were surpised, as was I a bit. He fits the OKC SG need and could be a very good player. He can get his points with in the flow of the offense which is important. Here are his stats from the first two games of Summer League:

Game 1 v. Magic: 21 min; 6-9 FG; 2-3 3P; 3-3 FT; 4 Reb; 1 Ast; 3 TO; 17 Pts

Game 2 v. Pacers: 36 min; 6-13 FG; 2-6 3P; 5-7 FT; 5 Reb; 3 Ast; 1 TO; 19 Pts

Just wondering what you guys think about his rookie year and future with OKC. I think he'll turn into a great player for them and quite possibly a 20 PPG scorer down the road.

phlp_bj
07-08-2009, 12:04 PM
i see him as a michael redd type. the great scorer. he has the body of a paul pierce though. doesn't seem very athletic or explosive but then he can beat you off the dribble.

Ace33Bone
07-08-2009, 12:10 PM
I think he is going to be a stud and he fits into te OKC scheme of things perfectly. I was praying that they picked him on draft night and I feel they made the right choice. ROY in my opinion

Hawkeye15
07-08-2009, 12:12 PM
If Griffin gets big minutes, he will be tough to beat for ROY, but Harden has to be a favorite, for sure

jehovah joe
07-08-2009, 12:15 PM
i think harden is going to be a good player, but summer league means little...

KnicksorBust
07-08-2009, 12:18 PM
I was just in the Thunder forum talking about this. Thunder are 3 moves away from being a legit team imo.

Sign David Lee
Trade Westbrook + 1st rounder + filler for Nash
Trade Green + filler for Chris Kaman

Lineup for 2009-2010:
C - Chris Kaman
PF - David Lee
SF - Kevin Durant
SG - James Harden
PG - Steve Nash

That lineup just looks like it fits perfectly together. IMO, they need to immediately get themselves out of the lottery and start learning how to win games. You need a combination of vets and young players to really succeed and if Harden develops properly that team could really be in the mix in just 1 or 2 years.

Ace33Bone
07-08-2009, 12:22 PM
I was just in the Thunder forum talking about this. Thunder are 3 moves away from being a legit team imo.

Sign David Lee
Trade Westbrook + 1st rounder + filler for Nash
Trade Green + filler for Chris Kaman

Lineup for 2009-2010:
C - Chris Kaman
PF - David Lee
SF - Kevin Durant
SG - James Harden
PG - Steve Nash

That lineup just looks like it fits perfectly together. IMO, they need to immediately get themselves out of the lottery and start learning how to win games. You need a combination of vets and young players to really succeed and if Harden develops properly that team could really be in the mix in just 1 or 2 years.

I do think that they need to sign David Lee I definitely see eye to eye with you on that but they cannot afford to give up Westbrook or Green imo.

NYK|NYY
07-08-2009, 12:22 PM
I think hes going to be solid and has potential to be really good.

nolin
07-08-2009, 12:23 PM
I was just in the Thunder forum talking about this. Thunder are 3 moves away from being a legit team imo.

Sign David Lee
Trade Westbrook + 1st rounder + filler for Nash
Trade Green + filler for Chris Kaman

Lineup for 2009-2010:
C - Chris Kaman
PF - David Lee
SF - Kevin Durant
SG - James Harden
PG - Steve Nash

That lineup just looks like it fits perfectly together. IMO, they need to immediately get themselves out of the lottery and start learning how to win games. You need a combination of vets and young players to really succeed and if Harden develops properly that team could really be in the mix in just 1 or 2 years.

The thunder should do the opposite of everything you just mentioned. why would they trade a young promising westbrook for an aging nash? And im not even going to get started on the green trade. :confused:

BkOriginalOne
07-08-2009, 12:25 PM
He's going to be a solid player - wouldn't say an all star, but in the running every year.
The team still has to go as Durrant goes, so Harden will have to mesh and compliment.

BoognishMN
07-08-2009, 12:39 PM
I see him as Glen Robinson like, solid player, fringe all star

KnicksorBust
07-08-2009, 12:40 PM
The thunder should do the opposite of everything you just mentioned. why would they trade a young promising westbrook for an aging nash? And im not even going to get started on the green trade. :confused:

Because Nash is still a million x better than Westbrook and has plenty of gas left in the tank. Nash would make life so much easier for Kevin Durant it's not even funny. Green shows a lot of skills and probably in theory you shouldn't trade him for Kaman, but Green is not a natural PF to me and therefore is a weird fit on that team. They need rebounding. That's why you go get David Lee who has a great complementary player who can finish at the rim and is a great pick and roll player (works great with Nash.). Now with David Lee you need a defensive big man shotblocker. That is why Green for Kaman makes sense. If they keep the lineup as is, they are due for a 30-35 win season and another trip to the lottery. 5 Straight lotteries? Tell me the team that did that and did it to win the championship.

Ryan328
07-08-2009, 12:41 PM
i see him as a michael redd type. the great scorer. he has the body of a paul pierce though. doesn't seem very athletic or explosive but then he can beat you off the dribble.

I agree with the Michael Redd comparison.

ctitus45
07-08-2009, 12:42 PM
I am very jealouse of Thunder fan because of the promise that franchise holds. OKC is a great basketball town, if you don't think so...go look at all the Hornets games during the katrina years...and go to an OK ST Men's game. GI Arena is always insane. They are one/two players and about one/two years away from being able to compete at the top of the west. They have done a fantastic job with that franchise. I'm very very jealous.

PG- Westbrook/Livingston (if not for that horrific injury...wow, potential.)
SG- Harden/ Sefolosha
SF- Durant/ Green
PF- Collison/Durant/ DJ White
C- Kristic/ Swift/ BJ Mullens

Crunch Time 5-

Westbrook
Harden
Green
Durant
Kristic

Replace Lee for Kristic if they can get him from NY

If they can sign David Lee or Paul Milsap...that would be awesome. But really, they need a bit more depth to make a good run. That's why I said 1-2 years.

ctitus45
07-08-2009, 12:45 PM
Because Nash is still a million x better than Westbrook and has plenty of gas left in the tank. Nash would make life so much easier for Kevin Durant it's not even funny. Green shows a lot of skills and probably in theory you shouldn't trade him for Kaman, but Green is not a natural PF to me and therefore is a weird fit on that team. They need rebounding. That's why you go get David Lee who has a great complementary player who can finish at the rim and is a great pick and roll player (works great with Nash.). Now with David Lee you need a defensive big man shotblocker. That is why Green for Kaman makes sense. If they keep the lineup as is, they are due for a 30-35 win season and another trip to the lottery. 5 Straight lotteries? Tell me the team that did that and did it to win the championship.

if you follow nash's career, he has about 3 years left in him. He has a terrible back and is really only good for about 20-25 mins a game now. Not that he doesnt have skills, its just his age and health. I would not trade any of that 4-core (westbrook/harden/green/durant) for anything. such a bright future! having Nash for westbrook and some throw ins only hurts the already weak depth

DerekRE_3
07-08-2009, 12:59 PM
i see him as a michael redd type. the great scorer. he has the body of a paul pierce though. doesn't seem very athletic or explosive but then he can beat you off the dribble.

All Redd does is shoot, Harden has shown that he can also create for others. Also, he's more athletic than people thought, and measured a 37 inch vert at the nba combine.

Corey
07-08-2009, 01:09 PM
He's a Gilbert Arenas type of player.

He has a ton of potential to be really good.

The Thunder have more potential than any team in the NBA. There a year away from being a top 5 seed. I've been calling it since they drafted Durant. They have such a good front office there.

KnicksorBust
07-08-2009, 01:12 PM
if you follow nash's career, he has about 3 years left in him. He has a terrible back and is really only good for about 20-25 mins a game now. Not that he doesnt have skills, its just his age and health. I would not trade any of that 4-core (westbrook/harden/green/durant) for anything. such a bright future! having Nash for westbrook and some throw ins only hurts the already weak depth

Once they switched coaches Nash started playing exactly like the Nash of old. Back to his 15-16 points and 10+ assists. He played almost 34 minutes per game last year and I have no idea where you are getting your opinions from.

You are right they have 4 good to great to amazing young players and guess what, if they keep them all and play the season they'll lose about 50 games again and be right back in the lottery. Winning teams don't start that many young players. They just don't.

Celtics - Rondo and Perk are young
Magic - Lee and Dwight are young
Lakers - Ariza and Bynum are young
Nuggets - mostly vets
Spurs - vets
Rockets - Brooks

Should be:
Thunder - Harden and Durant are young

Blazers have a lot of youth as well but they aren't in the title picture.

cowboyz180
07-08-2009, 01:29 PM
Once they switched coaches Nash started playing exactly like the Nash of old. Back to his 15-16 points and 10+ assists. He played almost 34 minutes per game last year and I have no idea where you are getting your opinions from.

You are right they have 4 good to great to amazing young players and guess what, if they keep them all and play the season they'll lose about 50 games again and be right back in the lottery. Winning teams don't start that many young players. They just don't.

Celtics - Rondo and Perk are young
Magic - Lee and Dwight are young
Lakers - Ariza and Bynum are young
Nuggets - mostly vets
Spurs - vets
Rockets - Brooks

Should be:
Thunder - Harden and Durant are young

Blazers have a lot of youth as well but they aren't in the title picture.
Ariza is not with the lakers anymore. He says he'll sign with the rockets.

LetsGo HomeTeam
07-08-2009, 01:31 PM
he is a hybrid of Redd and Peirce... he should compliment KD nicely for the next 10yrs

and i agree that if you bring in Lee you guys could actually find yourselves out of the lottery and getting better going forward

great pick

cowboyz180
07-08-2009, 01:31 PM
I think james harden will be a great player. if he stays with OKC and Durant, he may not put up all-star numbers, but if gets to be on his own team i can see him putting up all-star numbers.

Fmartinez86
07-08-2009, 01:33 PM
I was just in the Thunder forum talking about this. Thunder are 3 moves away from being a legit team imo.

Sign David Lee
Trade Westbrook + 1st rounder + filler for Nash
Trade Green + filler for Chris Kaman

Lineup for 2009-2010:
C - Chris Kaman
PF - David Lee
SF - Kevin Durant
SG - James Harden
PG - Steve Nash

That lineup just looks like it fits perfectly together. IMO, they need to immediately get themselves out of the lottery and start learning how to win games. You need a combination of vets and young players to really succeed and if Harden develops properly that team could really be in the mix in just 1 or 2 years.

yup those are def some gm moves the knicks would make but not the thunder bussy yea i agree get d lee but nash is old this the team of the future

what54!?
07-08-2009, 01:39 PM
Nash is too old for this team. Westbrook is gonna be a good player anyways. On topic I think Harden will mesh very well with this team he should get a lot of open looks. If the Big 4 learn how to play together and they get a good C (mullens isn't ready yet but if he pans out...uh-oh) look out.

KnicksorBust
07-08-2009, 01:39 PM
Ariza is not with the lakers anymore. He says he'll sign with the rockets.

I know. And Courtney Lee is now on the Nets. I know more about the NBA than you know about your family. I was pointing out the most successful teams of last season.


yup those are def some gm moves the knicks would make but not the thunder bussy yea i agree get d lee but nash is old this the team of the future

Baiting. :rolleyes: But anyway:

I just think it's interesting because it seems like the majority of people would rather have 6 young players who we don't know if they can work together than use some of them to get legit proven pro's whose styles would mesh. Kaman-Lee makes sense as a frontcourt. Giving Kevin Durant a player like Steve Nash to get him some easy baskets and take pressure off him to create seems like a no brainer to me. Plus you still have Harden and Durant for the next 10 years.

ctitus45
07-08-2009, 01:43 PM
Once they switched coaches Nash started playing exactly like the Nash of old. Back to his 15-16 points and 10+ assists. He played almost 34 minutes per game last year and I have no idea where you are getting your opinions from.

You are right they have 4 good to great to amazing young players and guess what, if they keep them all and play the season they'll lose about 50 games again and be right back in the lottery. Winning teams don't start that many young players. They just don't.

Celtics - Rondo and Perk are young
Magic - Lee and Dwight are young
Lakers - Ariza and Bynum are young
Nuggets - mostly vets
Spurs - vets
Rockets - Brooks

Should be:
Thunder - Harden and Durant are young

Blazers have a lot of youth as well but they aren't in the title picture.

Im one of the biggest Nash fans you will ever encounter. But trading Westbrook for Nash would be a mistake. Nash is not the MVP he once was...he needs D'Antoni to prolong his career.

16 ppg and 10 apg yes...but, look at all the vets they had on that suns squad...they couldnt make the playoffs last year. Westbrook could get 16 and 10 this year AND play better defense AND be more athletic than the Nash of NOW. im getting my opinions from watching the league and understanding the game. a vet or two would be nice yes, but like i said, they are a year or two away from competin in the west anyway, that gives them time to get some a vet or two in there. not many veterans are willing to hop on board yet with an unproven team. the talent is there, and if u remember, the Thunder were a solid team out west in the second half last year. so give them this year to prove they can compete. they just really need some inside presence. their star player is what? 3 yrs into the league? trading russell for Nash does not make them a title contender. so why do it?

bball1217
07-08-2009, 01:44 PM
In about 1 or 2 years this team will be a top team in the League, and be a Spurs-like dynasty for many years if the core of Westbrook-Green-Durant and now Harden stay together.

They should have a good combination of offense and defense. Both Westbrook and Harden will be great lock-down defenders and Durant and Green are good (not great) defenders who will not be liabilities like McGrady or Z. Randolph have been. With the ability to have 4 at least good defenders starting, with 2 great ones as well, they will be set defensively. As for offense, Durant and Harden will provide plenty of points. If Green and Westbrook played like they did last year, then the Thunder will have also a very very efficient offense.

Along with great balance on both sides, they should have great chemistry. We already know that Green-Durant-Westbrook have great chemistry and I don't think Harden will mess that up. This is why I don't think they should trade for vets right now, because they will lose that great chemistry.

If they keep that core of those 4 players together, I could see them being the Spurs of the next decade (winning around 4 rings even).

I think next year they will be a near playoff team (8, 9, or 10) in the West. They will also have their draft pick along with the Suns draft pick (unprotected) in the 2010 draft, which is loaded with big man. The Suns could have a high draft pick if they do indeed decide to blow it up. With both picks, they could trade up or might just have a high pick. This way they could grab a big man (PF or C) and then start contending.
Here is NBADRAFT.NET's 2010 Mock Draft (very deep, especially with big men)
http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft

Future lineup: (At start of 2010-2011 season)
(1st one)
Westbrook/Watson or Livingston
Harden/Sefolosha/Weaver
Durant/Green (6th man)
2010 Draft Pick/Green/White
Mullens/Kristic/Collison

(2nd one)
Westbrook/Watson or Livingston
Harden/Sefolosha
Durant/Weaver
Green/White/Collison
2010 Draft Pick/Mullens/Krisitc

Or they could sign David Lee:
Westbrook/Watson or Livingston
Harden/Sefolosha/Weaver
Durant/Green (6th man)
Lee/Green/Kristic
2010 Draft Pick/Mullens/Collison

Can someone say Dynasty?

Hawkeye15
07-08-2009, 01:45 PM
Harden reminds me of Roy a little bit. Not saying he will be that good, but it is easier to identify a player against someone really good sometimes.

KnicksorBust
07-08-2009, 01:53 PM
Im one of the biggest Nash fans you will ever encounter. But trading Westbrook for Nash would be a mistake. Nash is not the MVP he once was...he needs D'Antoni to prolong his career.

16 ppg and 10 apg yes...but, look at all the vets they had on that suns squad...they couldnt make the playoffs last year. Westbrook could get 16 and 10 this year AND play better defense AND be more athletic than the Nash of NOW. im getting my opinions from watching the league and understanding the game. a vet or two would be nice yes, but like i said, they are a year or two away from competin in the west anyway, that gives them time to get some a vet or two in there. not many veterans are willing to hop on board yet with an unproven team. the talent is there, and if u remember, the Thunder were a solid team out west in the second half last year. so give them this year to prove they can compete. they just really need some inside presence. their star player is what? 3 yrs into the league? trading russell for Nash does not make them a title contender. so why do it?

Westbrook is not the type of PG who will ever average 10 apg. He had 8 games of 10+ assists. He's not that style. You are right defensively he will be better but he will also NEVER be closer to Nash in terms of shooting or passing. Westbrook hit under 40% from the field, and under 30% from 3. Those numbers will go up yes but he'll never be an elite shooter like Nash still is at this moment. They were a solid team in the second half of the year? 16-26 is solid? Tell me when they are playing .500 ball.

Nash alone doesn't make them a title contender but Nash, Harden, Durant, Lee, Kaman makes them a legit playoff team this year with room to shock the world in ONE or TWO years if Harden develops. I'm still waiting for an example of the team that had 4 straight lottery picks, kept them all, and went on to win a championship.

hgtiger32
07-08-2009, 02:16 PM
Westbrook is not the type of PG who will ever average 10 apg. He had 8 games of 10+ assists. He's not that style. You are right defensively he will be better but he will also NEVER be closer to Nash in terms of shooting or passing. Westbrook hit under 40% from the field, and under 30% from 3. Those numbers will go up yes but he'll never be an elite shooter like Nash still is at this moment. They were a solid team in the second half of the year? 16-26 is solid? Tell me when they are playing .500 ball.

Nash alone doesn't make them a title contender but Nash, Harden, Durant, Lee, Kaman makes them a legit playoff team this year with room to shock the world in ONE or TWO years if Harden develops. I'm still waiting for an example of the team that had 4 straight lottery picks, kept them all, and went on to win a championship.


where to start with you dude...haha

1-nash didn't start Averaging 10 APG till he came to PHX the 2nd time with Dantoni as coach

2-westbrook is a ROOKIE...you know what that means buddy? it means that he is still learning the ropes, making mistakes, improving, and can only get better than where he is at now

3-Shock the world in one or two years...well IF, and a BIG, HUGE, GIGANTIC IF that trade were to happen - steve nash would only be in OKC for one year till he goes to NY

David Lee - no problem with him at all...good player that's very underated however I think too many people are expecting him to turn into a Tim Duncan or Rasheed Wallace type of a player and that's just not David Lee

Chris Kaman- for real? haha you would trade Jeff Green for Chris Kaman...lol...just for that post you would never get consideration for a job in an NBA front office

so here's the deal

Westbrook at the point...played great for a rookie last year
Harden at the SG...incoming rookie will provide more scoring for the Thunder
Durant...not much more to say, teams MVP, heart and soul, and a perenial
All Star for years to come
Jeff Green or David Lee at the 4 (if both green prob. comes off bench)...two
very explosive players who bring lots to the table
Kristic...sure he's not great but he's not bad...they'll be stuck with him this year...could have the rookie from Ohio St. to take over in the future or perhaps a draft pick or a FA signing

have a pretty solid bench with livingston, sefolosha, collison, and possibly green

so all in all...don't ruin the OKC lineup

bball1217
07-08-2009, 02:20 PM
where to start with you dude...haha

1-nash didn't start Averaging 10 APG till he came to PHX the 2nd time with Dantoni as coach

2-westbrook is a ROOKIE...you know what that means buddy? it means that he is still learning the ropes, making mistakes, improving, and can only get better than where he is at now

3-Shock the world in one or two years...well IF, and a BIG, HUGE, GIGANTIC IF that trade were to happen - steve nash would only be in OKC for one year till he goes to NY

David Lee - no problem with him at all...good player that's very underated however I think too many people are expecting him to turn into a Tim Duncan or Rasheed Wallace type of a player and that's just not David Lee

Chris Kaman- for real? haha you would trade Jeff Green for Chris Kaman...lol...just for that post you would never get consideration for a job in an NBA front office

so here's the deal

Westbrook at the point...played great for a rookie last year
Harden at the SG...incoming rookie will provide more scoring for the Thunder
Durant...not much more to say, teams MVP, heart and soul, and a perenial
All Star for years to come
Jeff Green or David Lee at the 4 (if both green prob. comes off bench)...two
very explosive players who bring lots to the table
Kristic...sure he's not great but he's not bad...they'll be stuck with him this year...could have the rookie from Ohio St. to take over in the future or perhaps a draft pick or a FA signing

have a pretty solid bench with livingston, sefolosha, collison, and possibly green

so all in all...don't ruin the OKC lineup

I totally agree.

KnicksorBust
07-08-2009, 02:34 PM
where to start with you dude...haha

1-nash didn't start Averaging 10 APG till he came to PHX the 2nd time with Dantoni as coach

2-westbrook is a ROOKIE...you know what that means buddy? it means that he is still learning the ropes, making mistakes, improving, and can only get better than where he is at now

3-Shock the world in one or two years...well IF, and a BIG, HUGE, GIGANTIC IF that trade were to happen - steve nash would only be in OKC for one year till he goes to NY

David Lee - no problem with him at all...good player that's very underated however I think too many people are expecting him to turn into a Tim Duncan or Rasheed Wallace type of a player and that's just not David Lee

Chris Kaman- for real? haha you would trade Jeff Green for Chris Kaman...lol...just for that post you would never get consideration for a job in an NBA front office

so here's the deal

Westbrook at the point...played great for a rookie last year
Harden at the SG...incoming rookie will provide more scoring for the Thunder
Durant...not much more to say, teams MVP, heart and soul, and a perenial
All Star for years to come
Jeff Green or David Lee at the 4 (if both green prob. comes off bench)...two
very explosive players who bring lots to the table
Kristic...sure he's not great but he's not bad...they'll be stuck with him this year...could have the rookie from Ohio St. to take over in the future or perhaps a draft pick or a FA signing

have a pretty solid bench with livingston, sefolosha, collison, and possibly green

so all in all...don't ruin the OKC lineup

I said the same thing. That he would improve. But never to the point where he can shoot like Nash or pass like Nash. Nash is the type of guy who could make Durant's life so much easier. You honestly think Durant would rather have Westbrook running around chucking at 39% than Steve Nash???

Nash is a 2-time nba MVP. If you think Westbrook can hold his jock then you there is a padded room waiting for you. K buddy? :D

Carey
07-08-2009, 02:37 PM
He's reminds me of a shorter Paul Pierce but he has a great feel for the game and great vision, he can play anywhere from the 1 to the 3. He's gonna be a very good all around player, i just hope we are smart with our money so we can afford to keep him, Durant, Westbrook and Green and just keep solid role players around them and we will be able to compete for championships 3 years from now.

DerekRE_3
07-08-2009, 02:39 PM
I think at worst Harden will be like John Salmons, and at best he will be like a Paul Pierce.

bball1217
07-08-2009, 02:51 PM
I said the same thing. That he would improve. But never to the point where he can shoot like Nash or pass like Nash. Nash is the type of guy who could make Durant's life so much easier. You honestly think Durant would rather have Westbrook running around chucking at 39% than Steve Nash???

Nash is a 2-time nba MVP. If you think Westbrook can hold his jock then you there is a padded room waiting for you. K buddy? :D
First off he was a 2-time NBA MVP 3 years ago. He is still a great PG, but not MVP level now.

Second, Nash is 35 years old and has played for 13 seasons. He has an expiring contract. Personally I think OKC is a great city with great fans. (I've been there about 3 times) But with limited years left, Nash will probably want to play with a title contender or a city closer to his home.

OKC will not risk trading away their PG of the future for a possible one-year rental. Let's be honest, with teams like the Spurs and Lakers just in the West, OKC will not contend for a title next year. In about a year or two though they should start to contend. So next year, they should play their young guys to get them more experience, because that's how young guys develop, by playing.

In a few years, maybe getting a vet to come off the bench or something like that will be a good idea. But for now, they should play their young guys so they can develop.

Also, I think you said, "[You are] still waiting for an example of the team that had 4 straight lottery picks, kept them all, and went on to win a championship."...there is a first time for every thing. (Plus these guys have great chemistry)

twoearl
07-08-2009, 02:53 PM
I see him as Glen Robinson like, solid player, fringe all star

yeah i agree. I don't think he will ever be a perennial all star type player. But a good player that will be around for awhile.

D-Amazins
07-08-2009, 03:09 PM
I was just in the Thunder forum talking about this. Thunder are 3 moves away from being a legit team imo.

Sign David Lee
Trade Westbrook + 1st rounder + filler for Nash
Trade Green + filler for Chris Kaman

Lineup for 2009-2010:
C - Chris Kaman
PF - David Lee
SF - Kevin Durant
SG - James Harden
PG - Steve Nash

That lineup just looks like it fits perfectly together. IMO, they need to immediately get themselves out of the lottery and start learning how to win games. You need a combination of vets and young players to really succeed and if Harden develops properly that team could really be in the mix in just 1 or 2 years.

Your trades make NO sense.

JDizzle
07-08-2009, 03:23 PM
james harden to the thunder at the 3rd pick was the best pick and fit for a team in the draft the thunder are going to be around 500 ball all year and may even amke a move for the playoffs

Baller1
07-08-2009, 03:39 PM
Glad to see my team getting some recognition. Hopefully everyone's right.

arkanian215
07-08-2009, 03:59 PM
haha yeah cdr and ryan anderson are doing really well. that says something.

Cubs Win
07-08-2009, 03:59 PM
Glad to see my team getting some recognition. Hopefully everyone's right.

I'm a Bulls fan obviously, but I'm really excited to see what becomes of this Thunder team. I really think Sefalosha could be a great bench player for you guys too. He can play great D and if he works on his shot, he'll be dangerous.

Anyways, it's good to see so many people also like Harden. The one real knock on him coming into the draft was his athleticsm. But he's actually kind of a sneaky athlete. As someone mentioned, he had a 37 inch vertical at the pre-draft combine and if I recall correctly, he also ran for a very good time in the 3/4 court sprint.

I like the Paul Pierce comparsion although he's a little more athletic and a little less physically imposing. I feel like the Brandon Roy comparison is a little closer although it may not show in the statistics with some of the other good and potentially great players in the lineup.

Fmartinez86
07-08-2009, 06:24 PM
First off he was a 2-time NBA MVP 3 years ago. He is still a great PG, but not MVP level now.

Second, Nash is 35 years old and has played for 13 seasons. He has an expiring contract. Personally I think OKC is a great city with great fans. (I've been there about 3 times) But with limited years left, Nash will probably want to play with a title contender or a city closer to his home.

OKC will not risk trading away their PG of the future for a possible one-year rental. Let's be honest, with teams like the Spurs and Lakers just in the West, OKC will not contend for a title next year. In about a year or two though they should start to contend. So next year, they should play their young guys to get them more experience, because that's how young guys develop, by playing.

In a few years, maybe getting a vet to come off the bench or something like that will be a good idea. But for now, they should play their young guys so they can develop.

Also, I think you said, "[You are] still waiting for an example of the team that had 4 straight lottery picks, kept them all, and went on to win a championship."...there is a first time for every thing. (Plus these guys have great chemistry)

Nicely pu nash isnt mvp caliber no more and kaman hahaha is overrated as hell and way overpayed green and westbrook are not worth nash and kaman okc is thinking of thre future not right now and thye know playoffs for them are gonna be hell to make but they got heart and great chemistry breaking that trio up would screw EVERYTHING up piss off durant even and have him leave too i dont think so man that guy is tripping

KnicksorBust
07-08-2009, 06:47 PM
I think if you ask Kevin Durant to pick between: Westbrook, Green, Collison or Nash, Lee, Kaman
It's a no brainer.

Even if it was Westbrook/Green vs. Nash/Kaman. I think he's going with the vets.

Fmartinez86
07-08-2009, 06:58 PM
I think if you ask Kevin Durant to pick between: Westbrook, Green, Collison or Nash, Lee, Kaman
It's a no brainer.

Even if it was Westbrook/Green vs. Nash/Kaman. I think he's going with the vets.

collison for lee hahahaha duh i want that too but the other two naw man

Raps18-19 Champ
07-08-2009, 07:11 PM
1984 Draft

1. C-Hakeem Olajuwon
2. C-Sam Bowie
3. SG-Michael Jordan

2009 Draft

1. PF/C- Blake Griffin
2. C-Hasheem Thabeet
3. SG-James Harden

I'm not trying to compare but they all play the same position.

HuRRiCaNeS324
07-08-2009, 09:34 PM
I was just in the Thunder forum talking about this. Thunder are 3 moves away from being a legit team imo.

Sign David Lee
Trade Westbrook + 1st rounder + filler for Nash
Trade Green + filler for Chris Kaman

Lineup for 2009-2010:
C - Chris Kaman
PF - David Lee
SF - Kevin Durant
SG - James Harden
PG - Steve Nash

That lineup just looks like it fits perfectly together. IMO, they need to immediately get themselves out of the lottery and start learning how to win games. You need a combination of vets and young players to really succeed and if Harden develops properly that team could really be in the mix in just 1 or 2 years.


This will obliterate the bright future they have.

HuRRiCaNeS324
07-08-2009, 09:35 PM
1984 Draft

1. C-Hakeem Olajuwon
2. C-Sam Bowie
3. SG-Michael Jordan

2009 Draft

1. PF/C- Blake Griffin
2. C-Hasheem Thabeet
3. SG-James Harden

I'm not trying to compare but they all play the same position.

Ok......then whats your point lol

JDizzle
07-08-2009, 10:00 PM
james harden is the next micheal jordan huh?

PapelbonLester
07-08-2009, 10:15 PM
Westbrook
Harden
Durant
White
Mullens

Green
Sefolosha
Weaver
Kristic
Livingston
Collinson
Vandon
Watson


Thats a straight squad. Keep em together for 3 years and if harden/white/mullens play to potential thats a playoff squad. If they could pull a amare trade and have

Westbrook
Harden
Durant
White
Amare

and say they trade green/weaver/mullens we still would have a beast squad but thats highly unlikely to happen so the top squad is what id do with em

PapelbonLester
07-08-2009, 10:17 PM
james harden is the next micheal jordan huh?

Griffen is no Hakeem. Hakeem was one of the greats. Just cuz Hakeem and Hasheem are similar names dont mean **** lol

Beno7500
07-08-2009, 10:18 PM
solid role player

dee279
07-08-2009, 10:32 PM
I think Harden is something like an Eric Gordan, good all around scorer with not great athleticism but can catch u off guard at times. He will be a good player.

dsickich123
07-09-2009, 01:12 AM
where to start with you dude...haha

1-nash didn't start Averaging 10 APG till he came to PHX the 2nd time with Dantoni as coach

2-westbrook is a ROOKIE...you know what that means buddy? it means that he is still learning the ropes, making mistakes, improving, and can only get better than where he is at now

3-Shock the world in one or two years...well IF, and a BIG, HUGE, GIGANTIC IF that trade were to happen - steve nash would only be in OKC for one year till he goes to NY

David Lee - no problem with him at all...good player that's very underated however I think too many people are expecting him to turn into a Tim Duncan or Rasheed Wallace type of a player and that's just not David Lee

Chris Kaman- for real? haha you would trade Jeff Green for Chris Kaman...lol...just for that post you would never get consideration for a job in an NBA front office

so here's the deal

Westbrook at the point...played great for a rookie last year
Harden at the SG...incoming rookie will provide more scoring for the Thunder
Durant...not much more to say, teams MVP, heart and soul, and a perenial
All Star for years to come
Jeff Green or David Lee at the 4 (if both green prob. comes off bench)...two
very explosive players who bring lots to the table
Kristic...sure he's not great but he's not bad...they'll be stuck with him this year...could have the rookie from Ohio St. to take over in the future or perhaps a draft pick or a FA signing

have a pretty solid bench with livingston, sefolosha, collison, and possibly green

so all in all...don't ruin the OKC lineup

I agree as well....
The Thunder are a young team building for the future...
Your trades would ruin the whole chemistry and future of this team...

dsickich123
07-09-2009, 01:16 AM
I was just in the Thunder forum talking about this. Thunder are 3 moves away from being a legit team imo.

Sign David Lee
Trade Westbrook + 1st rounder + filler for Nash
Trade Green + filler for Chris Kaman

Lineup for 2009-2010:
C - Chris Kaman
PF - David Lee
SF - Kevin Durant
SG - James Harden
PG - Steve Nash

That lineup just looks like it fits perfectly together. IMO, they need to immediately get themselves out of the lottery and start learning how to win games. You need a combination of vets and young players to really succeed and if Harden develops properly that team could really be in the mix in just 1 or 2 years.

If you were the GM of the Thunder...you would have death threats....
No joke bro...
that is probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard anyone say who "knows more about the NBA than you know about your family"...
Worst IDEA EVER...
I am just extremely happy that your name is not Sam Presti....

nba08
07-09-2009, 01:28 AM
I think Harden is something like an Eric Gordan, good all around scorer with not great athleticism but can catch u off guard at times. He will be a good player.

I think the thunder should do nothing to there team for at least a year or 2. they are all young and showed glipses of brillance. let them grow and hope they grow into a good team. and ya eric gordan is pretty athletic dude has made hops

JM09
07-09-2009, 02:13 AM
he's raw, always been raw, and will continue to be raw into his great nba future ahead of him

Derick713
07-09-2009, 02:33 AM
Russell Westbrook/
James Harden/Thabo Sefalosha
Kevin Durant/Jeff Green
ONLY NEED/ DJ White
BJ Mullens/

SeoulBeatz
07-09-2009, 02:33 AM
let me just say that the Thunder made another GREAT PICK.

They are going to be stacked and should contend in 2 years.

Harden is a poor mans Roy and with some hard work, he could very well reach that potential.

he's already got a swagger about him and he has great discipline.

Afridi786
07-09-2009, 03:08 AM
Russell Westbrook/
James Harden/Thabo Sefalosha
Kevin Durant/Jeff Green
ONLY NEED/ DJ White
BJ Mullens/

Jeff Green is their 4....and BJ Mullens will be out of the league when his contract is up....they still need a good big.

James Harden is like the next Brandon Roy imo. Not the most flashy but effective and nba ready.

dee279
07-09-2009, 03:21 AM
I think the thunder should do nothing to there team for at least a year or 2. they are all young and showed glipses of brillance. let them grow and hope they grow into a good team. and ya eric gordan is pretty athletic dude has made hops

Yeah but hes not the quickest guy and thats what i meant. ANd yes he got mad hops but Harden can jump too. Just not that quick.

sargon21
07-09-2009, 04:04 AM
i have now become a thunder fan, with their good draft picks and quality players, and a superstar in kD (can't wait to get my nba package and watch them all the time) and i love the draft pick of harden

TKellion
07-09-2009, 04:51 AM
C - Serge Ibaka
PF - Jeff Green
SF - Kevin Durant
SG - James Harden
PG - Russel Westbrook.....That should be their starting lineup this season.Call me crazy but they drafted Ibaka last season with the Center spot in mind.The days of hugely dominant centers are pretty much gone.How many 7foot plus do we still have in the league that dominate games?Duncan and Gasol both are listed at PF Shaq is near the end.Howard is 6'11".Ibaka was measured at 6'10" at 18 years old so he could still grow a little?But how many teams around the league play 6'10" and even shorter at the center spot?He is young and raw but has a low post game and a jump shot already and the frame to add enough muscle to play the 5 and is very athletic right now.I wont even qualify the trade for Nash baloney with a response other than the team of the future is taking shape and you want to blow it up for a has been before it ever has a chance.Go back to your NBA2K09 and quit the nonsense.:rolleyes:Just let those 5 along with Livingston,Sefalosha,Weaver,Collison,White,Hardin, Mullens,Watson and Krstic play and grow together and dont fall asleep on the Thunder when they come to town:clap:

dsickich123
07-09-2009, 10:04 AM
C - Serge Ibaka
PF - Jeff Green
SF - Kevin Durant
SG - James Harden
PG - Russel Westbrook.....That should be their starting lineup this season.Call me crazy but they drafted Ibaka last season with the Center spot in mind.The days of hugely dominant centers are pretty much gone.How many 7foot plus do we still have in the league that dominate games?Duncan and Gasol both are listed at PF Shaq is near the end.Howard is 6'11".Ibaka was measured at 6'10" at 18 years old so he could still grow a little?But how many teams around the league play 6'10" and even shorter at the center spot?He is young and raw but has a low post game and a jump shot already and the frame to add enough muscle to play the 5 and is very athletic right now.I wont even qualify the trade for Nash baloney with a response other than the team of the future is taking shape and you want to blow it up for a has been before it ever has a chance.Go back to your NBA2K09 and quit the nonsense.:rolleyes:Just let those 5 along with Livingston,Sefalosha,Weaver,Collison,White,Hardin, Mullens,Watson and Krstic play and grow together and dont fall asleep on the Thunder when they come to town:clap:

I AGREE WITH YOU 100%....
finally someone who see's what I see....

dsickich123
07-09-2009, 10:06 AM
i have now become a thunder fan, with their good draft picks and quality players, and a superstar in kD (can't wait to get my nba package and watch them all the time) and i love the draft pick of harden

I CANT WAIT EITHER...
I am buying league pass for pretty much just them...

S-Dot
07-09-2009, 10:07 AM
2009-2010 r.o.y.

Fmartinez86
07-09-2009, 01:07 PM
C - Serge Ibaka
PF - Jeff Green
SF - Kevin Durant
SG - James Harden
PG - Russel Westbrook.....That should be their starting lineup this season.Call me crazy but they drafted Ibaka last season with the Center spot in mind.The days of hugely dominant centers are pretty much gone.How many 7foot plus do we still have in the league that dominate games?Duncan and Gasol both are listed at PF Shaq is near the end.Howard is 6'11".Ibaka was measured at 6'10" at 18 years old so he could still grow a little?But how many teams around the league play 6'10" and even shorter at the center spot?He is young and raw but has a low post game and a jump shot already and the frame to add enough muscle to play the 5 and is very athletic right now.I wont even qualify the trade for Nash baloney with a response other than the team of the future is taking shape and you want to blow it up for a has been before it ever has a chance.Go back to your NBA2K09 and quit the nonsense.:rolleyes:Just let those 5 along with Livingston,Sefalosha,Weaver,Collison,White,Hardin, Mullens,Watson and Krstic play and grow together and dont fall asleep on the Thunder when they come to town:clap:

very very very true cant wait for the thunder to begin smashing i love when people give me crap saying stuff like "u like who? the okc what? are they a team?" lol cuz in two years they will alll know exactly who they are and the capabilities of this great young team... and call me crazy but if i mean when okc is a contender in two years i dont see anyone leaving the team there chemistry is awesome there like brothers none of that kobe imma go shower in the coaches locker cuz im to good to use the same shower the rest of the team does bryant.....

KnicksorBust
07-09-2009, 03:24 PM
I agree as well....
The Thunder are a young team building for the future...
Your trades would ruin the whole chemistry and future of this team...

Okay enjoy another season with a win total in the 30's and another trip to the lottery. Waste another season. If you think that's the best way to develop Durant and all these guys then be my guest. We'll see if you're still here at the end of the year when I'm right. Sig that.

Cubs Win
07-09-2009, 04:01 PM
Okay enjoy another season with a win total in the 30's and another trip to the lottery. Waste another season. If you think that's the best way to develop Durant and all these guys then be my guest. We'll see if you're still here at the end of the year when I'm right. Sig that.

Haha. Knicks fans have no room to talk when talking about the correct way to build a franchise. Your plan, KnicksorBust, would wreck a potentially great future for a great young core. Maybe they'd compete more quickly with your plan, but only for a few years. Whereas now, the Thunder are set up for a potential decade long run of serious contention in the not to distant future.

KnicksorBust
07-09-2009, 04:45 PM
Haha. Knicks fans have no room to talk when talking about the correct way to build a franchise. Your plan, KnicksorBust, would wreck a potentially great future for a great young core. Maybe they'd compete more quickly with your plan, but only for a few years. Whereas now, the Thunder are set up for a potential decade long run of serious contention in the not to distant future.

This baiting is ridiculous. I guess I can't post anywhere because I'm a Knicks fan? What does that have to do with anything?

Yeah they would compete now rather than be a lottery team again. That's the whole point. Look at Boston. You think the Celtics regret trading Al Jefferson in a package for Garnett or Corey Brewer for Ray Allen? No. They got a ring and are an elite team still. It was worth it. Lee, Kaman, and Nash could, in my opinion, propel the Thunder out of the lottery and into the playoffs while still keeping them a young team (Harden/Durant/Ibaka) with room to grow.

Cubs Win
07-09-2009, 04:49 PM
This baiting is ridiculous. I guess I can't post anywhere because I'm a Knicks fan? What does that have to do with anything?

Yeah they would compete now rather than be a lottery team again. That's the whole point. Look at Boston. You think the Celtics regret trading Al Jefferson in a package for Garnett or Corey Brewer for Ray Allen? No. They got a ring and are an elite team still. It was worth it. Lee, Kaman, and Nash could, in my opinion, propel the Thunder out of the lottery and into the playoffs while still keeping them a young team (Harden/Durant/Ibaka) with room to grow.

So you're saying, they'd rather compete for 2-3 years as opposed to waiting 2 years and competing at that same level for 10-12?

KnicksorBust
07-09-2009, 04:59 PM
So you're saying, they'd rather compete for 2-3 years as opposed to waiting 2 years and competing at that same level for 10-12?

You're inferring so many things:
1. Westbrook/Harden/Durant/Green all develop to their potential and no one ever leaves for FA. I've never heard of 4 straight lottery picks staying together like that. Please give me an example.
2. David Lee (26) and Chris Kaman (27) retire on their 30th birthdays?

How bout make the playoffs now, have a chance at a ring and you have leave great 3 years find a way to find one PG replace Nash? I think if they looked hard enough over the next 3 years they could find someone on Westbrook's level to step in and keep them in contention. PLUS THEY WOULD HAVE HAD THEIR SHOT AT RING! Kevin Durant will get QUALITY PLAYOFF EXPERIENCE! He's not going to reach his full potential langushing on lottery teams.

bogdanrom
07-09-2009, 05:02 PM
I saw a comparison between him and Ginobili, and I think if he keeps working that he has a chance to become a player similar to that. Like a 18-20 PPG, 5 RPG, 4-5 APG.

Cubs Win
07-09-2009, 05:10 PM
Well first off, you're assuming any of them leave. You probably didn't think of the fact that OKC can pay each of them more than anyone else (if they want to) to keep them even if it means going over the cap. Honestly, I don't think the lineup you proposed would be able to beat the Lakers, Spurs or Nuggets really in the West. Even if they somehow managed to get past them, they'd still have trouble with the Cavs, Magic, and Celtics in the East. So in reality, you're trading a franchise's future for playoff experience. Remember, this is playoff experience that many people believe they will gain anyway within 2 years. While they may miss the playoffs this year, and they get a 7/8 seed next year and get bounced in the first round, it's the same experience you speak of without giving up the future.

KnicksorBust
07-09-2009, 05:24 PM
Well first off, you're assuming any of them leave. You probably didn't think of the fact that OKC can pay each of them more than anyone else (if they want to) to keep them even if it means going over the cap. Honestly, I don't think the lineup you proposed would be able to beat the Lakers, Spurs or Nuggets really in the West. Even if they somehow managed to get past them, they'd still have trouble with the Cavs, Magic, and Celtics in the East. So in reality, you're trading a franchise's future for playoff experience. Remember, this is playoff experience that many people believe they will gain anyway within 2 years. While they may miss the playoffs this year, and they get a 7/8 seed next year and get bounced in the first round, it's the same experience you speak of without giving up the future.

Alright I'm going to wrap this up because you're not changing my mind and clearly I'm not changing yours. You believe, like apparently the majority of people, the Westbrook/Harden/Durant/Green will all stay on the Thunder, they'll get the missing piece, and maybe in 2 years start making the playoffs. Then the next 8 years they will be great and maybe even a :gasp: dynasty!

I believe that you are wasting Kevin Durant's talent by making him deal with another lottery season. I think he could truly benefit by having a player like Steve Nash running PG (nothing against Westbrook, it's just Steve Nash, who can still shoot the lights out and sets the table like few can). I think having Harden at SG is a perfect fit next to Durant so I would leave him there to be Duran't sidekick for the next decade. I personally think Green is undersized at PF and so he should be moved to create a solid frontcourt that can score in the post and block some shots. There comes Kaman/Lee. I think that starting 5 would have a legitimate chance at a ring not this year but within 3 years because Durant is that special and if you put him with above average veteran starters and a player who can makes life easier for him (Nash), you do it and you don't think twice. You let the kid learn what the playoffs are really like as soon as possible. Lee and Kaman can both stick around for the next 5-6 years so really you'd have 3-4 year window to win a ring and then all you have to worry about is replacing Nash. I think it makes sense. Young teams need to find ways to make that jump and I think the Thunder are in a great position to do that.

Sportfan
07-09-2009, 05:28 PM
OKC needs to trade a wing, durant green and harden are all there and unless they make 1 a 6th man, they should trade green(IMO) for a big

Cubs Win
07-09-2009, 05:29 PM
Well, we can agree to disagree. Because say they end up in the lottery again next year, maybe its not a horrible thing. What if they pick up a Center which is the main missing piece in their starting lineup? They could get someone like Cole Adrich, Greg Monroe, or Larry Sanders with a potential project pick of Solomon Alabi. It could be the start of something really special, and if I were a Thunder fan, I wouldn't want to ruin it.

bball1217
07-09-2009, 05:31 PM
This baiting is ridiculous. I guess I can't post anywhere because I'm a Knicks fan? What does that have to do with anything?

Yeah they would compete now rather than be a lottery team again. That's the whole point. Look at Boston. You think the Celtics regret trading Al Jefferson in a package for Garnett or Corey Brewer for Ray Allen? No. They got a ring and are an elite team still. It was worth it. Lee, Kaman, and Nash could, in my opinion, propel the Thunder out of the lottery and into the playoffs while still keeping them a young team (Harden/Durant/Ibaka) with room to grow.
First off, Kaman and Nash are nowhere near as good as getting Garnett and Allen (Potential HOFers). And the Celtics already had a vet in place (Pierce). And Lee is nowhere near a guarantee to come to OKC.

Second, look at the other teams in the League. The West has at 7 for sure title contenders. The East has about 5 or 6 legit title contenders. The OKC next year (assuming they do your trades and also get Lee) might sneak in the 8th seed at best, but have no chance at winning a title IMO.

So would you trade a future dynasty (about 10 years) for a 2 maybe 3 years hoping for a miracle run to the title?
OR
Give your young players plenty of playing time (builds great chemistry, which they already have and develops their skills) and still have a chance to get the 8th seed at best?

IMO, it is a no-brainer that the second one is the best choice. Both situations they could get the 8th seed (and do not argue that, because you know this current team can and you seem to believe that your team can make playoffs, so they can for sure get the 8th seed). Also, if they do bad, they get a high draft pick (which they can use in an excellent draft or THEN trade it for a vetern, while still keeping their core of Durant-Green-Westbrook-Harden).

Nash could not even get to the playoffs with Shaq and Amare on his team. He did not even reach the Finals when the Suns were best in the league for about 4 or 5 years (Mid- 2000s). What makes you think the OKC Thunder have a chance with Nash to have a shot at the title when he is on his decline, has no real big man to alley-oop it to off the pick-and-roll (Kaman is no Amare or Shaq), and when the League is stacked with about 12 teams that are true Title Contenders, with West having about 7 of them.

I would develop these guys now (playoffs or not), then dominate when all this Title contenders get old and have to re-build and are on their decline. Do not try to win now and get a miracle title, wait and go for 3, 4, even 5 titles and become a dynasty!

bball1217
07-09-2009, 05:35 PM
Alright I'm going to wrap this up because you're not changing my mind and clearly I'm not changing yours. You believe, like apparently the majority of people, the Westbrook/Harden/Durant/Green will all stay on the Thunder, they'll get the missing piece, and maybe in 2 years start making the playoffs. Then the next 8 years they will be great and maybe even a :gasp: dynasty!

I believe that you are wasting Kevin Durant's talent by making him deal with another lottery season. I think he could truly benefit by having a player like Steve Nash running PG (nothing against Westbrook, it's just Steve Nash, who can still shoot the lights out and sets the table like few can). I think having Harden at SG is a perfect fit next to Durant so I would leave him there to be Duran't sidekick for the next decade. I personally think Green is undersized at PF and so he should be moved to create a solid frontcourt that can score in the post and block some shots. There comes Kaman/Lee. I think that starting 5 would have a legitimate chance at a ring not this year but within 3 years because Durant is that special and if you put him with above average veteran starters and a player who can makes life easier for him (Nash), you do it and you don't think twice. You let the kid learn what the playoffs are really like as soon as possible. Lee and Kaman can both stick around for the next 5-6 years so really you'd have 3-4 year window to win a ring and then all you have to worry about is replacing Nash. I think it makes sense. Young teams need to find ways to make that jump and I think the Thunder are in a great position to do that.
He is 20 years old and is only going into his third season! His talent is not getting wasted, it is still developing.

bball1217
07-09-2009, 05:36 PM
Well, we can agree to disagree. Because say they end up in the lottery again next year, maybe its not a horrible thing. What if they pick up a Center which is the main missing piece in their starting lineup? They could get someone like Cole Adrich, Greg Monroe, or Larry Sanders with a potential project pick of Solomon Alabi. It could be the start of something really special, and if I were a Thunder fan, I wouldn't want to ruin it.

Agreed. Or they can trade that pick for a vet. They just need to be patient.

KnicksorBust
07-09-2009, 05:45 PM
First off, Kaman and Nash are nowhere near as good as getting Garnett and Allen (Potential HOFers). And the Celtics already had a vet in place (Pierce). And Lee is nowhere near a guarantee to come to OKC.

Second, look at the other teams in the League. The West has at 7 for sure title contenders. The East has about 5 or 6 legit title contenders. The OKC next year (assuming they do your trades and also get Lee) might sneak in the 8th seed at best, but have no chance at winning a title IMO.

So would you trade a future dynasty (about 10 years) for a 2 maybe 3 years hoping for a miracle run to the title?
OR
Give your young players plenty of playing time (builds great chemistry, which they already have and develops their skills) and still have a chance to get the 8th seed at best?

IMO, it is a no-brainer that the second one is the best choice. Both situations they could get the 8th seed (and do not argue that, because you know this current team can and you seem to believe that your team can make playoffs, so they can for sure get the 8th seed). Also, if they do bad, they get a high draft pick (which they can use in an excellent draft or THEN trade it for a vetern, while still keeping their core of Durant-Green-Westbrook-Harden).

Nash could not even get to the playoffs with Shaq and Amare on his team. He did not even reach the Finals when the Suns were best in the league for about 4 or 5 years (Mid- 2000s). What makes you think the OKC Thunder have a chance with Nash to have a shot at the title when he is on his decline, has no real big man to alley-oop it to off the pick-and-roll (Kaman is no Amare or Shaq), and when the League is stacked with about 12 teams that are true Title Contenders, with West having about 7 of them.

I would develop these guys now (playoffs or not), then dominate when all this Title contenders get old and have to re-build and are on their decline. Do not try to win now and get a miracle title, wait and go for 3, 4, even 5 titles and become a dynasty!

Nash and the Suns won 46 games and missed the playoffs by 2 wins. That's with Shaq missing 10 games and Amare missing 30. So cut that "couldn't make the playoffs with Amare and Shaq" nonsense. I hope you don't believe it.

There's a fundamental difference in our opinions and my contention is that the current OKC Thunder will not crack 40 wins, will not sniff the playoffs and will be in the lottery again. I think that's a waste when Kevin Durant showed last year he's already becoming an elite player. Who cares that he's "only" 20 if he's already ready for the big stage? That's my two cents.

bball1217
07-09-2009, 09:37 PM
Nash and the Suns won 46 games and missed the playoffs by 2 wins. That's with Shaq missing 10 games and Amare missing 30. So cut that "couldn't make the playoffs with Amare and Shaq" nonsense. I hope you don't believe it.

There's a fundamental difference in our opinions and my contention is that the current OKC Thunder will not crack 40 wins, will not sniff the playoffs and will be in the lottery again. I think that's a waste when Kevin Durant showed last year he's already becoming an elite player. Who cares that he's "only" 20 if he's already ready for the big stage? That's my two cents.

I do not doubt that they were a great team. And if no one got injured, then I bet they would have gotten the 6th seed, no higher.

But injuries happen. What if Durant (with your team) gets injured with 10 games left, and they miss the playoffs by two games. Then they do not get playoff experience, no shot at the title, and get stuck with a low lottery pick.

Also, you keep saying that we are assuming the combo of Durant-Green-Westbrook-Harden won't all stay together to form a dynasty. What makes you think that Nash stays with OKC, when he could take the MLE on a chamionship team and have a really really good shot at a title. There would be no guarantee he would stay. So stop using that against our argument that they (the big 4 if you will) will all stay together, because its the same for Nash.

So let's assume the worst case scenario, they barely miss the playoffs, Nash bolts for a more experienced team, and they get stuck with a low lottery pick. They would waste a year on Durant, risk wasting the next year on him to, and lose the great chemistry that Durant-Green-Westbrook already have.

If they do make the playoffs (most likely a low seed (7 or 8)), they would probably get beat by a very good team (Lakers, Spurs, Nuggets) in the first round, could still lose Nash to another team, and get stuck with a 15-17 pick in the draft. Plus, I don't think one round of getting beat by a great team would be the best playoff experience, helpful, but not so great.

If they keep there young guys and do not go for vets, then making the playoffs is just icing on the cake. They would probably get beat though, just like I described above. If they do not make the playoffs they are still very young and gave their players a full year to develop and build chemistry.

I did not mean to say that the Suns were a bad team, I apologize for that.

bball1217
07-09-2009, 09:45 PM
Nash and the Suns won 46 games and missed the playoffs by 2 wins. That's with Shaq missing 10 games and Amare missing 30. So cut that "couldn't make the playoffs with Amare and Shaq" nonsense. I hope you don't believe it.

There's a fundamental difference in our opinions and my contention is that the current OKC Thunder will not crack 40 wins, will not sniff the playoffs and will be in the lottery again. I think that's a waste when Kevin Durant showed last year he's already becoming an elite player. Who cares that he's "only" 20 if he's already ready for the big stage? That's my two cents.
First off, IMO I think the current team could sneak in the 8th seed at best (they could at least sniff the playoffs).

Second, the same could happen with the team you have in mind. Injuries or suspensions (although I doubt suspensions would happen to any of these guys) can happen. ***t happens. Then they have the same situation but no longer have Green or Westbrook (young guys who had good seasons and have good potential).

Sports Illustrator
07-10-2009, 12:04 AM
I see James Harden as a special player in the NBA, especially with how well the coaching staff of OKC have developing their own young ball players. Harden has the makings to be a good player and now he just needs to take his game to the next level and will take some more maturity. He will be very solid though.