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sacgiants1213
07-05-2009, 01:32 AM
MIAMI -- The Pirates and San Francisco have had trade talks regarding second baseman Freddy Sanchez and, to a lesser extent, first baseman Adam LaRoche, each of whom can be a free agent after this season.

The Giants have had a scout following Sanchez, a source confirmed yesterday, and their interest in LaRoche goes back several months. Their preference at first base, though, is for a right-handed bat.

Sanchez has a vesting option in his contract that allows him to trigger an $8.5 million option if he achieves 635 plate appearances or 600 plate appearances plus an All-Star berth. The latter will be known today when selections are made.

LaRoche is the Pirates' second-highest paid player at $7.05 million, and there is some skepticism within the team that he can be moved with about half of that amount still due.

Other players the Pirates are known to have discussed with other teams -- and such discussions are highly commonplace and vary in their intensity -- are shortstop Jack Wilson, reliever John Grabow and, only in an exploratory sense, closer Matt Capps. The latter apparently would be moved only at a high price.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09186/981978-63.stm?cmpid=pirates.xml

b_rad23
07-05-2009, 05:07 PM
Looks like they're looking to field the least powerful team in MLB history.

spidurx21
07-05-2009, 08:06 PM
I think a trade with San Fran is most likely to happen and while I would hate to see Freddy go I would love to see him have a chance to win cause he is a class act.Also I wouldn't much mind if we could pry away Tim Alderson from them.

Joe505
07-05-2009, 11:29 PM
This about the trade that is gonna go down...

Pirates Trade: Freddy Sanchez(Full Contract.)
Giants trade: Merkin Valdez, Kevin Frandsen, Freddy Lewis, PTBNL.

The Pirates have been selling incredibly low. They're not gonna change now. I want to see him traded within the next 5 days, so that he has to wear a Giants uni at the All Star Game. The Pirates would get another choice at the All Star game, but 4 AS would be great.

spidurx21
07-06-2009, 11:53 AM
I would just love to see Pittsburgh pry away Alderson from the Giants cause a front end rotation of Alderson,Lincoln,& Maholm would actually mean we would have some pitching that could worry other teams.Also is it just me or is the Matt Capps train really in need of departure.

good spliff
07-06-2009, 05:11 PM
I would just love to see Pittsburgh pry away Alderson from the Giants cause a front end rotation of Alderson,Lincoln,& Maholm would actually mean we would have some pitching that could worry other teams.Also is it just me or is the Matt Capps train really in need of departure.

I do understand the interest in Tim Alderson; however, he is very highly regarded by our front office. He is one of our top four talents. I doubt the Giants would give him up for Sanchez. I see Kevin Pucetas as a possibility.

spidurx21
07-06-2009, 06:30 PM
I do understand the interest in Tim Alderson; however, he is very highly regarded by our front office. He is one of our top four talents. I doubt the Giants would give him up for Sanchez. I see Kevin Pucetas as a possibility.


It might be wishful thinking but I would hope they would at least try to do something to get Alderson cause this kid is gonna be sick.

good spliff
07-06-2009, 10:46 PM
I know Sanchez has had back problems, but both he and A. Laroche are not in tonight's lineup. Randy Winn is not in ours...?

spidurx21
07-07-2009, 01:11 AM
I would think that if a trade isnt done by morning it may just be details also I am not sure I would really want winn.

enchinga
07-08-2009, 11:39 AM
The Bucs still have the stigma of Matt Morris hanging around. And anytime a trade rumor with the Giants comes up, I shudder.

Mcclutch
07-10-2009, 11:00 PM
if the pirates eat most of their contracts and maybe a mid tier prospect do you think it would be possible to get villalona and noonan

SFGiants
07-11-2009, 02:29 AM
Villalona AND Noonan? NO chance, my man.

Mcclutch
07-11-2009, 07:35 AM
and now the giants aren't gonna want to give up J sanchez since he threw a no hitter

burgh_fan66
07-11-2009, 12:10 PM
I really do not know what San Fransisco has in its farm but hopefully the Pirates are looking for pitchers, middle infield and power.

And welcme to the forum Mcclutch. I consider myself the dean of Pirate fans here. And for the most part before you and spidurx21 I was basically the only one. Keep posting and keep this forum somewhat active.

cre0530
07-12-2009, 08:04 AM
This just proves that despite management changes and all the hype about making the pirates better history is repeating itself. Whenever the Giants desperatelt need a player they go to their top farm club the Pittsburgh pirates for their best player and send them underachieving prospects or aging, has beens in return.

robbnen#31
07-14-2009, 04:42 PM
maybe we can pull this trade off by sending you Bob Howry and Rich Aurillia for Sanchez! I mean look what we were able to do for Schmidt and Morris!

jk

isuk
07-14-2009, 05:06 PM
I really do not know what San Fransisco has in its farm but hopefully the Pirates are looking for pitchers, middle infield and power.
And welcme to the forum Mcclutch. I consider myself the dean of Pirate fans here. And for the most part before you and spidurx21 I was basically the only one. Keep posting and keep this forum somewhat active.

Believe me when I say, we've got none of it.

spidurx21
07-14-2009, 06:49 PM
I really do not know what San Fransisco has in its farm but hopefully the Pirates are looking for pitchers, middle infield and power.

And welcme to the forum Mcclutch. I consider myself the dean of Pirate fans here. And for the most part before you and spidurx21 I was basically the only one. Keep posting and keep this forum somewhat active.

Yeah I am seeing this I have had to go to other teams boards to even talk baseball I just wish more people would talk about the bucco's.

burgh_fan66
07-14-2009, 07:13 PM
Yeah I am seeing this I have had to go to other teams boards to even talk baseball I just wish more people would talk about the bucco's.

I do my best here I really do. But I know what you are saying 3-4 regular posters really are not enough. (though it is better than just me) :eyebrow:

spidurx21
07-14-2009, 07:36 PM
I do my best here I really do. But I know what you are saying 3-4 regular posters really are not enough. (though it is better than just me) :eyebrow:

Yeah I hear ya but it just sucks so many people just don't care anymore enough to even talk about baseball in Pittsburgh.

Mcclutch
07-14-2009, 10:12 PM
im gonna have to find it again but i found something and a couple major scouts think alderson will be nothing more than a high end of the rotation starter and nothing real special

Mcclutch
07-14-2009, 10:16 PM
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9154
toward the bottom and it was one scout not two

spidurx21
07-14-2009, 11:09 PM
I don't know clutch but I think he would be a good pitcher in the bigs plus you gotta remember that scouts are wrong usually more than they are right about players.

spidurx21
07-14-2009, 11:11 PM
Also I found this article about how he may eventually end up being a reliever but they were comparing him to Eckersley which would not be bad at all.http://obsessivegiantscompulsive.blogspot.com/2007/06/giants-2007-draft-6-pick-22-tim.html

Gigantes4Life
07-16-2009, 07:07 AM
I think his best-case scenario is being a #2 SP, worst-case is a 4/5, but likely a #3. The reason he's valued so high by us is that he's almost ready to contribute and will likely be in the rotation next year.

m_mckinley
07-16-2009, 06:22 PM
Here was my thought for a trade with the Giants (though I don't want to move Duke):

SF gets: Sanchez, Duke, and Grabow
Pit gets: Henry Sosa, John Bowker, Nick Noonan, and Jonathan Sanchez

Trying to be as realistic as possible (hence no Alderson, Posey, Bumgarner, or Villalona). Would give us two major league ready players and two solid prospects while upgrading the Giants rotation, bullpen, and lineup. Still could try to pry away EY Jr from Coloraod for Capps and ????. Thoughts?

spidurx21
07-16-2009, 08:05 PM
I would do Eric Young JR. for Matt Crapps in a heartbeat!!

kmoneyjuice
07-17-2009, 08:39 PM
Here was my thought for a trade with the Giants (though I don't want to move Duke):

SF gets: Sanchez, Duke, and Grabow
Pit gets: Henry Sosa, John Bowker, Nick Noonan, and Jonathan Sanchez

Trying to be as realistic as possible (hence no Alderson, Posey, Bumgarner, or Villalona). Would give us two major league ready players and two solid prospects while upgrading the Giants rotation, bullpen, and lineup. Still could try to pry away EY Jr from Coloraod for Capps and ????. Thoughts?

This seems like a reasonable deal. If I were the giants I would work to get grabow and sosa or noonan out of the deal though.

mise
07-20-2009, 12:58 PM
So, the Brewers and the Twins have moved to add second basemen to their organizations. The Brew Crew have certainly filled their 2B hole, and I doubt the Twins will add another middle infielder now, although Grudz is hardly a solution. Are there any other viable landing spots for Freddy now, other than perhaps the Giants? Also, does the Lopez deal set a precedent for a possible return for Sanchez? Because, as far as I can tell, there wasn't much of a return at all. Gillaspie and Mercedes don't seem like major prospects of any sort. Would love some sort of enlightenment here as to what may happen with Sanchez.

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2009/7/19/954790/regarding-sanchez-suitors

sep11ie
07-20-2009, 09:20 PM
Trade Sanchez and Wilson. They both talked like they wanted to stay long term, then rejected ext talks with no counters, just a no. They weren't even bad offers.

m_mckinley
07-21-2009, 05:48 PM
Trade Sanchez and Wilson. They both talked like they wanted to stay long term, then rejected ext talks with no counters, just a no. They weren't even bad offers.

Sanchez's offering wasn't only bad it was insulting to him and to anyone that follows the Pirates. There was no real attempt to sign him to that two year deal...the Pirates offered it in a lame attempt to fool the public into thinking they made an effort when in fact they didn't. 2 years 10 million for someone that is set to make 8.5 million next year (guaranteed with ABs; not a club option) is insulting not only to Freddy's intelligence but the intelligence of their fan base...does the Pirates front office really believe that in 2011 Freddy would only get 1.6 on the open market? 3 years at 18 million would have been an acceptable start....maybe even 2 years at 13 million...but 2 years at 10 million was indeed a bad offer and Neal came out and said they weren't willing to vary much from the original offer...why would Freddy counter?

Jack didn't counter or accept because he said he wasn't signing unless Freddy was kept. Jack saw Freddy's offer and knew immediately we have no intentions of keeping him. Jack's offer was legit--I'm very happy he declined--if we're going to rebuild then lets rebuild. However, Freddy could have been someone worth keeping with the kids while we did that.

Yet again, poor management by the Bucs--and it bothers me that fans actually think this was even a legit attempt to keep Freddy...it wasn't. Not even close

burgh_fan66
07-21-2009, 11:53 PM
Sanchez's offer was not bad, if he was going to hit free agency. 5 million a year for a player of his caliber seems fair to me. But you are right he has no reason to accept because of his option that is almost sure to vest.

Now from the Pirates perspective they may see Sanchez as a free agent after this year because I know this sounds crazy but as long as they control his rights they control is plate appearances. The Pirate organization has no obligation to make sure he meets the plate appearances. So basically the Pirates can control wether or not Sanchez hits free agency.

Now I am with you in believing Sanchez should have gotten a better offer. I think around 4.5 million to 5.5 million is fair but added on to that should be about half the option. So something like 3 years, 16-19 million would be about right.

Oh and you have the option completely wrong (unless it is some little known option noone else is talking about). It is not based on at bats. It is based on plate appearances and it is also a club option. If Sanchez fails to reach 600 plate appearances the Pirates still have the option of picking it up.

Pensx3
07-22-2009, 03:44 PM
I really do not want to see Sanchez traded. Now that LaRoche is finally gone, dont we have money to keep Sanchez? If we do trade Freddy and or Wilson, we would nearly cut our salary in half. Do you think we can sign a descent free agent this summer?

Hossa Sucks
07-23-2009, 02:40 PM
I really do not want to see Sanchez traded. Now that LaRoche is finally gone, dont we have money to keep Sanchez? If we do trade Freddy and or Wilson, we would nearly cut our salary in half. Do you think we can sign a descent free agent this summer?

No

jmiller26
07-23-2009, 05:17 PM
The question isn't whether they can sign a big free agent, but rather what free agent would want to play for the pirates?

Pensx3
07-23-2009, 06:00 PM
Haha good point, I guess it was wishful thinking. We are due for a Raul Mondesi, Derek Bell, or Jeromy Burnitz type player; players who were once very good, but come here to try to revive their career, all fail miserably.

spidurx21
07-24-2009, 01:29 PM
The thing about this club is they are thinking they can pull off what Tampa Bay did last year but the only difference is the Rays actually took the best players available in the draft and developed them.Where as the Pirates have not done that minus when they signed Pedro & while we have received some really good prospects through trades they have almost all been considered lost causes by their prior clubs.

Now we may very likely be able to catch lightning in a bottle in regards to position players the fact of the matter is we don't have any pitching to match those position players when they are ready.While we have some ok young hs arms they won't be anywhere near ready when Tabata,Alverez,Ford,Sanchez,& Hernandez are.The only legit pitching prospect we have is Lincoln and he won't ever be a staff ace type pitcher,we just don't have that type of pitcher that will help carry a staff every 5th day.

burgh_fan66
07-25-2009, 12:02 AM
exactly right. we have noone to be a #1 type pitcher. We have a few good arms in our system and some might be borderline #2 starters (Lincoln, maybe Morris if he stops getting hurt) but there is noone with ace potential. Who knows maybe the Nats fail to sign Strausburg (I really don't know how to spell his name) and we draft and sign him next year.

Spilopleura
07-27-2009, 02:40 AM
Now from the Pirates perspective they may see Sanchez as a free agent after this year because I know this sounds crazy but as long as they control his rights they control is plate appearances.

Wouldn't he be able to file some type of grievance if he were unjustly denied plate appearances?

It's gonna be a riot if he goes. With all of the other players gone, he may be THE fan favorite. And if he foes, who is going to take his place? I've seen Young start at 2nd two or three times, and he is not good there. Not Good. Luis Cruz and Ramon Vazquez are both listed as SS. I don't recall seeing Cruz play, and I only think I've seen Vazquez play SS. Bixler sure isn't the answer either. Not sure if he tries to play 2nd or limits himself to pretending he can play short. Argenis Diaz scouts out as an elite defensive SS, but no mention of 2nd base ability. Shelby Ford, the AAA Indians second baseman is currently hitting .176 and scouting reports put his maximum potential at average mlb second baseman, more likely an above average infield utility guy.

I know Sanchez is going to be relatively expensive to keep around, but can we really afford to not have him here?

sacgiants1213
07-27-2009, 03:54 AM
this upcoming 3 games series could be the final games with Freddy as a pirate. It just so happens that we're playing you guys right before the trade deadline. Convenient, aint it?

burgh_fan66
07-27-2009, 09:47 AM
I'm not sure if he could file a grievance or not. I mean can a judge/ arbitrator really tell a team who they have to play? If he could file one why couldn't some bench player who rarely gets into the lineup. Or Bryan Bullington a few years ago when he was here for two weeks and did not appear in a single game.

I would think Russell would have the ability to play whoever he wanted.

aREALpiratesfan
07-27-2009, 06:11 PM
even if the nats dont sign strasburgh ( i cant spell his name either) he will go number one again and i doubt we will get the number one pick

MooseWithFleas
07-27-2009, 06:51 PM
Nope, that spot is reserved for the Nats (again)

aREALpiratesfan
07-27-2009, 10:22 PM
haha true that, sanchez is not in our lineup tonight..... could this be a sign of a trade because young is at 2nd

MooseWithFleas
07-28-2009, 06:44 PM
Things are pickin up in the interest between the Giants and Sanchez


5:35pm: Kovacevic has updated his previous report, saying that "primary" talks about Sanchez have been with the Giants, and they "were believed to have intensifed last night." But Kovacevic says the Twins are still in the mix as well.


Jon Heyman of SI.com hears that the Giants are pretty seriously involved in talks for Sanchez.

From MLBTR

Giants have a really deep farm system. Would be nice to see the Pirates dip into that stock.

rhynorampage
07-28-2009, 07:45 PM
Per TIOPS:

Sanchez, Wilson Close to Being Dealt:

"The Pirates have informed Freddy Sanchez that a trade is close and that he will not be in the lineup until after Friday's July 31st deadline, if a trade falls through. Sanchez and Jack Wilson have been scratched from tonight's lineup"

Take it as you will, here's the link: http://insidepittsburghsports.com/story/sanchez-wilson-close-to-being-dealt/15114/

MooseWithFleas
07-29-2009, 12:22 AM
Cop out to try to get Sanchez to get less AB's so his option doesn't kick in.

sacgiants1213
07-29-2009, 12:24 AM
I think a trade will happen. They'll announce it after tomorrow's game.

burgh_fan66
07-29-2009, 12:29 AM
Cop out to try to get Sanchez to get less AB's so his option doesn't kick in.

If that were the case I think they would have placed him on the DL because of his recent knee injury. Of course who would they call up to replace him? I guess Milledge and move Young to 2nd full time :speechless: or Bixler :cry:

And not to be technical but his option has nothing to do with ABs. Its plate appearances.

mise
07-29-2009, 02:08 AM
I'm going to call the trade : Guzman, Noonan, and a pitcher. Let's see how close I was tomorrow.

The_Mac22
07-29-2009, 05:18 AM
Hopefully a trade gets done.

TheGiantsFan
07-29-2009, 09:42 AM
Per TIOPS:

Sanchez, Wilson Close to Being Dealt:

"The Pirates have informed Freddy Sanchez that a trade is close and that he will not be in the lineup until after Friday's July 31st deadline, if a trade falls through. Sanchez and Jack Wilson have been scratched from tonight's lineup"

Take it as you will, here's the link: http://insidepittsburghsports.com/story/sanchez-wilson-close-to-being-dealt/15114/

I've heard Guzman, Frandsen along with Kevin Pucetas for Sanchez and the Pirates eat some of Sanchez's contract. That's what the Giants have submitted and the only thing that stands in the way is if Sanchez's knee is any better.