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Mile High Champ
06-28-2009, 11:04 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember but I conducted a poll at the start of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

PG Rankings DONT FORGET TO VOTE!!

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Vince Carter
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)

Last Years SG rankings:


1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Tracy McGrady
4) Allen Iverson
5) Manu Ginobili
5) Vince Carter
7) Joe Johnson
8) Ray Allen
9) Brandon Roy
10) Kevin Martin

Mile High Champ
06-28-2009, 11:08 AM
Carter manged to beat Ginobili last round. I remember the last time we had those two together, they tied the first round with 62 votes or something, they then tied the playoff between them and Carter finally won the third vote.

clutchski
06-28-2009, 11:11 AM
All these guys (at least the ones significant in my mind) have very similar numbers so it's going to be subjective

theuuord
06-28-2009, 11:13 AM
I guess we count Iguodala as a SF, and not a SG?

Raps18-19 Champ
06-28-2009, 11:14 AM
Ginobli.

ManRam
06-28-2009, 11:21 AM
I like Manu here.

ntat
06-28-2009, 11:55 AM
that list is ********. roy and johnson r absolutely not better than kevin martin.

Freshed
06-28-2009, 11:58 AM
that list is ********. roy and johnson r absolutely not better than kevin martin.

lol i think you need to watch more nba games before saying anything similar to what you posted.

Burkey3472
06-28-2009, 12:02 PM
Give me Manu here.

ntat
06-28-2009, 12:03 PM
lol i think you need to watch more nba games before saying anything similar to what you posted.

i think i have watched plenty, and have solid info to back up what im sayin. "lol". "LOL" turdboy...
and let me clarify a bit, i think Roy has the potential to be better than Martin, but i think Johnson is just outright not as good.

Tblaze
06-28-2009, 12:03 PM
as barkley would say:

ginobiliiiiiiiiiiiiii

Tblaze
06-28-2009, 12:03 PM
i think i have watched plenty, and have solid info to back up what im sayin. "lol". "LOL" turdboy...

watch some more

ntat
06-28-2009, 12:14 PM
watch some more
wath some more says the biased blazers fan, haha. besides, my edit said Roy will be better than martin, he just isnt yet. I think Roy has top tier potential. give him another season or two.

ntat
06-28-2009, 12:17 PM
Martin does not hold the ball near as much as Johnson or roy, and as far as offensive efficiency goes there is no comparing them. Martin got 50 points on 10 shots.

PSD Man
06-28-2009, 12:30 PM
6. Ginobli
7. Allen
8. Gordon

Mikeleafs
06-28-2009, 12:33 PM
Martin does not hold the ball near as much as Johnson or roy, and as far as offensive efficiency goes there is no comparing them. Martin got 50 points on 10 shots.

How is this possible? Not only do you need to watch more NBA games but need to go to math class too...

Roy is WAAAAAAAY better than Martin...

Anyway, I agree completely with the list above and one of Manu or R. Allen would get my vote for 6th

DCSportsIsPain
06-28-2009, 12:43 PM
Martin got 50 points on 10 shots.

With statements like this, how could we not take your every posted word seriously?

By efficiency ratings for players listed as SG's, Roy was #3 and Johnson was #6 in the entire league last season, while Martin was #5. I'd rate Martin higher if he had played more than 51 games last season. Roy played 84 games and Johnson played 90.

ntat
06-28-2009, 12:53 PM
With statements like this, how could we not take your every posted word seriously?

By efficiency ratings for players listed as SG's, Roy was #3 and Johnson was #6 in the entire league last season, while Martin was #5. I'd rate Martin higher if he had played more than 51 games last season. Roy played 84 games and Johnson played 90.
kevin martin played injured all last season. look at the two before that. and he did get 50 on 10 or 12 shots, and went to the line 24 times.

ntat
06-28-2009, 12:56 PM
How is this possible? Not only do you need to watch more NBA games but need to go to math class too...

Roy is WAAAAAAAY better than Martin...

Anyway, I agree completely with the list above and one of Manu or R. Allen would get my vote for 6thlook it up if u think my math is fuzzy smart guy.
and what makes Roy better AT THIS POINT in their careers? Offensively, its not his numbers. and keep in mind martin played with a strained groin ALL last season.

Nexus
06-28-2009, 01:00 PM
It kind of bugs me that TMAC would be long gone if he were healthy. Does having surgery make him any less of a player, even if you only see him for 30 games? Less value to his team, yes.

BigEric
06-28-2009, 01:02 PM
So I guess Martin's going to be like 7th-9th again. Great, I mean the guy did average more PPG than anyone besides Kobe and Wade at the SG but he's 7th 8th or 9th. Don't give me that he doesn't pass enough crap or someone's gotta score on a crappy team, crap. Playing on a bad team doesn't increase your scoring, if anything teams focus defenses on you and you'll score less. I don't see how he goes lower than 5th.

ntat
06-28-2009, 01:08 PM
So I guess Martin's going to be like 7th-9th again. Great, I mean the guy did average more PPG than anyone besides Kobe and Wade at the SG but he's 7th 8th or 9th. Don't give me that he doesn't pass enough crap or someone's gotta score on a crappy team, crap. Playing on a bad team doesn't increase your scoring, if anything teams focus defenses on you and you'll score less. I don't see how he goes lower than 5th.
thank u eric.

BigEric
06-28-2009, 01:24 PM
Give Martin some help (Evans, development of Hawes and Thompson) and watch him flourish. I'm not saying who he's better than or worse than, but BEN GORDON has more votes.

theuuord
06-28-2009, 01:29 PM
guys, I like Kevin Martin too, but:

a) he's missed 52 games in the last 2 seasons,
b) he is a porous defender,
c) he doesn't really do anything but shoot, and
d) he doesn't shoot that well on 2-pointers.

he's a great three-point shooter and has shown good slashing ability, especially indicated in his ability to get to the line so often. But he's not in the first tier (Wade/Kobe/Roy), or the second (Carter/Johnson/Allen/Ginobili). He's one tiny step below those guys.

Mile High Champ
06-28-2009, 05:40 PM
I guess we count Iguodala as a SF, and not a SG?

That would be correct..

ManRam
06-28-2009, 05:50 PM
guys, I like Kevin Martin too, but:

a) he's missed 52 games in the last 2 seasons,
b) he is a porous defender,
c) he doesn't really do anything but shoot, and
d) he doesn't shoot that well on 2-pointers.

he's a great three-point shooter and has shown good slashing ability, especially indicated in his ability to get to the line so often. But he's not in the first tier (Wade/Kobe/Roy), or the second (Carter/Johnson/Allen/Ginobili). He's one tiny step below those guys.

I definitely agree with you about why Martin isn't the man here. I just think the drop off from the first two tiers is a bit more significant.

The next group SGs, after Ginobili don't really do anything but score at all. The top 6 SGs are all much more than just scorers. The can pass, play defense, rebound, create their own shots at will, etc. After those 6, the rest pretty much just make baskets, and not much else (Allen, Martin, Gay, Gordon, Foye, etc.). T-Mac and AI were more than just scorers, but their careers are dwindling fast.

It will be interesting how the voting goes after this one.

clutchski
06-28-2009, 05:51 PM
Kevin Martin should be higher than Ray Allen IMO, and Ben Gordon.

Beno7500
06-28-2009, 06:18 PM
allen and carter junk now. seriously. WHATEVER

dtmagnet
06-28-2009, 06:33 PM
I'd take Kevin Martin over Ray or Ben Gordon at this point, but this spot belongs to Ginobli.

BigEric
06-28-2009, 06:36 PM
His defense isn't porous. He plays passing lanes very well. I don't know about you guys, but I want my SG to score. He does it without dominating the ball. You people are really putting Martin in a group with Randy Foye, Ben Gordon the chucker and Rudy Gay, who isn't a SG. Put Ginobili or any of the other ****s in Martin's situation, and I'd like to see them average 5 assists per game. Obviously he's a very weak defender, physically, but he's very quick and sneaky. If you're going to argue that with me, it's foolish unless you watch Kings games like I do, on a local station, because we didn't get a single TV game last year, which was well deserved.

BigEric
06-28-2009, 06:38 PM
guys, I like Kevin Martin too, but:

a) he's missed 52 games in the last 2 seasons,
b) he is a porous defender,
c) he doesn't really do anything but shoot, and
d) he doesn't shoot that well on 2-pointers.

he's a great three-point shooter and has shown good slashing ability, especially indicated in his ability to get to the line so often. But he's not in the first tier (Wade/Kobe/Roy), or the second (Carter/Johnson/Allen/Ginobili). He's one tiny step below those guys.

And he made the most FT per game in the NBA last season.

VCaintdead17
06-28-2009, 06:39 PM
6.Manu
7.Kmart
8. Ray Ray
9.Hamilton
10.Redd


Thats how it should look IMO.

theuuord
06-28-2009, 06:41 PM
His defense isn't porous. He plays passing lanes very well. I don't know about you guys, but I want my SG to score. He does it without dominating the ball. You people are really putting Martin in a group with Randy Foye, Ben Gordon the chucker and Rudy Gay, who isn't a SG. Put Ginobili or any of the other ****s in Martin's situation, and I'd like to see them average 5 assists per game. Obviously he's a very weak defender, physically, but he's very quick and sneaky. If you're going to argue that with me, it's foolish unless you watch Kings games like I do, on a local station, because we didn't get a single TV game last year, which was well deserved.

A guy who's really QUICK AND SNEAKY, as you say, should average more than 1.2 steals per game.
A guy who's playing passing lanes on the off chance that he might disrupt two to three possessions per the average of 100 in a game is hurting his team more than helping it, considering the other 97.

I want an SG to score too. And Martin does that relatively well. There are just other shooting guards who not only do it better, but they do other things better too. That's why Martin's not in those first two tiers, but approaching them.

theuuord
06-28-2009, 06:42 PM
And he made the most FT per game in the NBA last season.

...Yeah, I said that.
Did you also know he gets to the line a lot?

arkanian215
06-28-2009, 06:52 PM
manu hands down.

Uz13
06-28-2009, 06:58 PM
Ginobili. Surprise he didn't go fifth.

ManRam
06-28-2009, 07:02 PM
allen and carter junk now. seriously. WHATEVER

I'm not a huge Allen fan anymore...I think all he does is run around screens to get open. He can't create his shot very well any more. He does still play good defense though. Still top 10, but just holding on IMO. Wont be after next year.

However, Carter's PER last year trailed only Kobe, Wade, Roy and Manu last year. If that's junk, then you're nuts. He was 5th amongst SGs in scoring. 5th in assists...trailing only Kobe, Wade, Roy and JJ in both categories. He trailed only Kobe in rebounding. He is the 5th best SG, and I think there are little doubts about that. After him, and arguably Manu, the SGs get very one-dimensional. They are just scorers, and poor defenders. The top 6 SGs are the ONLY SGs that provide significanlty more than just scoring ability.

BigEric
06-28-2009, 07:04 PM
Of course that goes without saying hehe. He did have an off year and average 24. I can't wait until him and 'Reke Havoc hit the court. Most FT's by a backcourt ever.

BigEric
06-28-2009, 07:06 PM
I'm not a huge Allen fan anymore...I think all he does is run around screens to get open. He can't create his shot very well any more. He does still play good defense though. Still top 10, but just holding on IMO. Wont be after next year.

However, Carter's PER last year trailed only Kobe, Wade, Roy and Manu last year. If that's junk, then you're nuts. He was 5th amongst SGs in scoring. 5th in assists...trailing only Kobe, Wade, Roy and JJ in both categories. He trailed only Kobe in rebounding. He is the 5th best SG, and I think there are little doubts about that. After him, and arguably Manu, the SGs get very one-dimensional. They are just scorers, and poor defenders. The top 6 SGs are the ONLY SGs that provide significanlty more than just scoring ability.

Agreed, as much as I dislike Carter, the guy can flat out play. Say what you want about what he doesn't do, but what he does, he does it well.

Knicks Faithful
06-28-2009, 07:18 PM
Manu Ginobli, then Ben Gordon, Ray Allen is to one dimensional, and not good defensively, Gordon showed he can play defense during the play offs, and create is own shot.

Bruno
06-28-2009, 07:29 PM
I voted Allen (as much as I hate the Celtics) for #6. His efficiency, FG, FT, and 3FG% are absurd. Manu was too injured to get my vote.

I'm also glad PSD can recognize that B.Roy is the 3rd best SG in the league.

As much as I like Martins game, he has a lot of things working against him. His FG% and assists are low. He shot 42% from the field last year, and 41.5% from 3 point! When he becomes better inside the paint, he will become a dominant 2.

Drewlius
06-28-2009, 07:38 PM
His defense isn't porous. He plays passing lanes very well. I don't know about you guys, but I want my SG to score. He does it without dominating the ball. You people are really putting Martin in a group with Randy Foye, Ben Gordon the chucker and Rudy Gay, who isn't a SG. Put Ginobili or any of the other ****s in Martin's situation, and I'd like to see them average 5 assists per game. Obviously he's a very weak defender, physically, but he's very quick and sneaky. If you're going to argue that with me, it's foolish unless you watch Kings games like I do, on a local station, because we didn't get a single TV game last year, which was well deserved.


Which would make him either 3rd or 4th.

Baller1
06-28-2009, 07:39 PM
that list is ********. roy and johnson r absolutely not better than kevin martin.

I hope you're kidding. He is not even close to their levels.

blazerman
06-28-2009, 07:41 PM
i think i have watched plenty, and have solid info to back up what im sayin. "lol". "LOL" turdboy...
and let me clarify a bit, i think Roy has the potential to be better than Martin, but i think Johnson is just outright not as good.

You can try and convince people all you want of that nonsense but that is just going to make you're credibility as a knowledgable nba person plummet.

Roy may be better than Martin bah ha ha!

I just showed a couple of my friends that and they are busting up laughing and one said "Kevin who", yeah he's well known to you and me but outside of Sacramento he could walk down the street without getting a second look!

Martin's a really good player but he's no Roy!

Baller1
06-28-2009, 07:42 PM
I voted Manu.

macc
06-28-2009, 07:56 PM
I'm suprised T Mac isn't getting any love. I think a healthy T Mac is clearly better than all the players left on the board. I'm just guessing people are assuming his last injury could end his career. T Mac seems confident but we'll see. Just remember theres a reason why he's voted to the starting lineup to the all star team year after year.

madiaz3
06-28-2009, 08:00 PM
I'm suprised T Mac isn't getting any love. I think a healthy T Mac is clearly better than all the players left on the board. I'm just guessing people are assuming his last injury could end his career. T Mac seems confident but we'll see. Just remember theres a reason why he's voted to the starting lineup to the all star team year after year.

He's Yao Ming's teammate.

macc
06-28-2009, 08:10 PM
He's Yao Ming's teammate.



He was voted a starter even before he got to Houston.

harlequin018
06-28-2009, 08:12 PM
I'm suprised T Mac isn't getting any love. I think a healthy T Mac is clearly better than all the players left on the board. I'm just guessing people are assuming his last injury could end his career. T Mac seems confident but we'll see. Just remember theres a reason why he's voted to the starting lineup to the all star team year after year.

I think his career is over. He may see limited minutes here and there, but he will never be a productive starter again.

blacknell
06-28-2009, 08:34 PM
i thought monta ellis played pg

macc
06-28-2009, 08:46 PM
I think his career is over. He may see limited minutes here and there, but he will never be a productive starter again.


And you're basing that off.....

QuaLiThADoN
06-28-2009, 08:55 PM
if VC didn't get traded he wouldn't have won 5th all the new Magic fans voted him lmfao.....

haze442200
06-28-2009, 09:13 PM
that list is ********. roy and johnson r absolutely not better than kevin martin.

Kevin Martin is a good player and all but you need to settle down a bit. He may be a better three point shooter then Roy but Roy has him in every other facet of the game...and not just on potential. Roy is better then martin right now and could potentially be way better.

Also I remember an interview with Kobe, Lebron and Chris Paul last year where they were asked who were the best players in the NBA and they all mentioned Joe Johnson...none of them said Kevin Martin.

Beno7500
06-28-2009, 11:15 PM
Kevin Martin is a good player and all but you need to settle down a bit. He may be a better three point shooter then Roy but Roy has him in every other facet of the game...and not just on potential. Roy is better then martin right now and could potentially be way better.

Also I remember an interview with Kobe, Lebron and Chris Paul last year where they were asked who were the best players in the NBA and they all mentioned Joe Johnson...none of them said Kevin Martin.

i could give a **** less about what they said

ntat
06-28-2009, 11:15 PM
Kevin Martin is a good player and all but you need to settle down a bit. He may be a better three point shooter then Roy but Roy has him in every other facet of the game...and not just on potential. Roy is better then martin right now and could potentially be way better.

Also I remember an interview with Kobe, Lebron and Chris Paul last year where they were asked who were the best players in the NBA and they all mentioned Joe Johnson...none of them said Kevin Martin.
really? he has him in every other categorie other than 3 point shooting? so martin didnt have a better scoring avg, better free throw %, get to the foul line more, or if u dont ignore the fact that Martin played hurt all year, and look at the last two years when he had some healthy time, martin didnt shoot better from the field? U could have fooled me man.
and the worst part is, there is no one else u have to guard on sac's team, and he still put up the numbers. But i bet u will ignore the fact he played with a strained groin and bad ankle all season last year.
and im responding to the bold now, Micheal Jordan said on several occasions that the toughest player he faced in the league was Mitch Richmond, so is Mitch the 2nd best player of that era? And i have a basketball card that backs that up. So because Jordan said, that makes it true right?

ntat
06-28-2009, 11:26 PM
I voted Allen (as much as I hate the Celtics) for #6. His efficiency, FG, FT, and 3FG% are absurd. Manu was too injured to get my vote.

I'm also glad PSD can recognize that B.Roy is the 3rd best SG in the league.

As much as I like Martins game, he has a lot of things working against him. His FG% and assists are low. He shot 42% from the field last year, and 41.5% from 3 point! When he becomes better inside the paint, he will become a dominant 2.
played with a bad groin and ankle the whole season man. look at the last two, he shot over 47% and 48% when he was healthy, and could get lift and slash and drive to the basket. plus roy and johnson handle the ball like a PG and the Kings ran the offense thru their PG. Oh and Martin had a coaching change in the middle of the year. and the amount of free throws he shoots lets u know he gets to the basket almost as well as anyone. Roy played well, but Johnson avg'd 16+ a game in the playoffs. not good for the 3-6th best 2 in the league. and shot under 42% and shot 60% from the line.

Kakaroach
06-28-2009, 11:50 PM
Manu Manu

bogdanrom
06-29-2009, 01:45 AM
Manu Ginobili. Easily.

TEJ
06-29-2009, 03:11 AM
Ginobli should already be on the list but I guess he will have to go here.

OaklandsFinest
06-29-2009, 03:26 AM
What are you talking about? You should take that Giants logo down that makes us all look like morons. I think Joe Johnson is probably 3rd behind Wade and Bryant. To say Joe Johnson is not as good as Kevin F'in Martin is like saying Jesus was horrible person.

Vinny642
06-29-2009, 04:05 AM
i went mayo lol but manu then allen/gordon

azkarraga
06-29-2009, 04:36 AM
i dont have the assests to vote. ill wait for the SF's

Beno7500
06-29-2009, 04:52 AM
What are you talking about? You should take that Giants logo down that makes us all look like morons. I think Joe Johnson is probably 3rd behind Wade and Bryant. To say Joe Johnson is not as good as Kevin F'in Martin is like saying Jesus was horrible person.

was that an attempt at being funny?

ntat
06-29-2009, 05:12 AM
What are you talking about? You should take that Giants logo down that makes us all look like morons. I think Joe Johnson is probably 3rd behind Wade and Bryant. To say Joe Johnson is not as good as Kevin F'in Martin is like saying Jesus was horrible person.
wow ur dumb guy. and im glad that my SF logo affects a guy that reps Oakland. Have fun with the A's and the Warriors. lol

i.got.the.nutz
06-29-2009, 06:30 AM
ill take oj mayo