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View Full Version : Guarding Kobe vs Lebron vs Wade according to Portland's defense specialist



JordansBulls
06-22-2009, 09:08 PM
Source: Basketsession (http://www.basketsession.com/blog-batum-pour-defendre-sur-kobe-on-ma-dit-bonne-chance/)




Originally Posted by Nic Batum
"Kobe knows that he's the one on his team that can score so he takes shots. Even if Mike Pietrus is playing great defense, he scores 30 points anyway.

"For that matter since the start of the playoffs, Mike is good, eh! And not only on defense, he also scores. He scored 15 points that night. Aside from the 2nd game, he's scored 14, 18, and 15. That's pretty good for his first finals. And then defensively he's been great. LeBron maybe put up lots of points, but he still limited him. He forced LeBron to play for himself, made him lower his head and the others stopped moving. So sure LeBron scored 40 points, but the others didn't score more than 10.

"That's what you have to do against LeBron. For us, in Portland, that's what we do against him. "Let LeBron score 40, it's not important as long as the others don't score 20." If he wants to, he'll score 40 anyway. You have to try to limit him and make him shoot a poor percentage. But you especially have to cut off the others and give it your all against him. Anyway, that's what you have to do against these guys. Sure, you have to try to stop them, but the objective is above all to limit them more than to stop them, because they're so good... After LeBron, you can try to let him shoot, because his shot is less fluid and precise than Kobe's, even if he's starting to become better and better.

"It's a bit different defending against them. For LeBron, I was told "stay back and avoid letting him in the paint. It's better to let him shoot." For Kobe, it's "good luck." Wade, for me, is different, he was maybe the toughest to defend. Well, no, in fact, you can't say that he's the toughest to defend out of the three because they're the three best players in the world. It's crazy how skilled Kobe is. Wade is too quick, his lateral quickness is crazy, in a thousandth of a second he puts his right foot on the other side compared with his left foot, you don't know how he did it. And LeBron, he hits you with his shoulder and you end up in the stands. To summarize: Wade too quick, Kobe too skilled, LeBron too physical."

GspLAL
06-22-2009, 09:22 PM
Sounds about right, Wade and Lebron are at the point of their careers where their quickness/physique are at their peaks, once you get to your 30s you rely more on your jump shot.

Master Mind
06-22-2009, 09:33 PM
Good assessment...

_KB24_
06-22-2009, 10:08 PM
"And LeBron, he hits you with his shoulder and you end up in the stands."

Isn't that a foul when you lean in with your shoulder and push?

ManRam
06-22-2009, 10:14 PM
"And LeBron, he hits you with his shoulder and you end up in the stands."

Isn't that a foul when you lean in with your shoulder and push?

No. And nor should it ever be.

The NBA used to be a physical sport. Now it's just a sport.

wwwhat
06-22-2009, 10:16 PM
Depends. I'm assuming this means when Lebron's driving and has a lane to the basket so he leans in with his shoulder onto a lateral moving Batum to create space. Not a foul by Lebron, if anything it'll go on Batum. If Lebron just trucks him it is or if he uses a forearm.

Kenny
06-22-2009, 10:18 PM
I think the Magic are still trying to figure out how to stop lebron

ManRam
06-22-2009, 10:22 PM
I think the Magic are still trying to figure out how to stop lebron

Agreed. We had more trouble containing LeBron, even when his teammates could shoot the ball into the ocean, than we did Kobe. It wasn't a lot more difficult, but as a Magic fan, we struggled more vs. LeBron than Kobe. His athleticism, and passing skills are a deadly combo. They kill you in different ways.

I like the assessment. Kobe is the skilled player. LeBron is the freak. And Wade is Flash.

Lakersfan2483
06-22-2009, 11:06 PM
Source: Basketsession (http://www.basketsession.com/blog-batum-pour-defendre-sur-kobe-on-ma-dit-bonne-chance/)

Interesting thread, I think he touched on a lot of the things we all see when watching these guys play. We all know how quick and crafty Wade is, and Kobe is obviously well skilled and crafty and Lebron is so gifted physically that it's tough to guard any of these guys. It's all about team defense and coming up with an excellent defensive scheme when trying to guard these 3 guys.

Lakersfan2483
06-22-2009, 11:10 PM
I think Batum made an interesting point when he stated that their goal was to make Lebron inefficient in terms of allowing him to take more shots, but at the same time taking his teammates out of the picture. The Magic used that strategy and it worked to their advantage, Lebron was able to get his pts, but the offense was stagnant and guys were watching as oppossed to being involved. The Cavs were at their best when they increased their ball movement., thus involving others and allowing James to close the game out more effectively.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2009, 11:12 PM
^

Lebron tried to involve his team mates but they weren't making their shots. Other than West.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2009, 11:14 PM
I think Lebron will be impossible to guard if he either improves that shot or becomes quicker.

And by the looks of it, he's improving on both.

Joshtd1
06-22-2009, 11:19 PM
Sounds about right. LeBron just uses his digusting athleticism and strength, Kobe uses his great skill and shot, and Wade just blows by every body.

dee279
06-22-2009, 11:43 PM
He really put it right. To me, all 3 of them is really unguardable.

sp1derm00
06-22-2009, 11:47 PM
Lebron is quicker than Wade when there's an open lane behind his defender. Once Lebron gets past him, it's about a step and a hop and a dunk. Wade needs maybe 2 steps to Lebron's one once Wade blows by someone.

Wade though, can blow by just about anyone anytime he wants and is quicker/trickier if there are defenders in the way.

Sometimes, watching Lebron play makes the sport seem unfair. He's a total beast on the finish and I have no idea how you're supposed to stop him once he has a head of steam going towards the basket.

sp1derm00
06-22-2009, 11:48 PM
He really put it right. To me, all 3 of them is really unguardable.

You spelled Dwyane wrong in your sig.

J$mo0th_3o5
06-23-2009, 12:08 AM
Lebron is quicker than Wade when there's an open lane behind his defender. Once Lebron gets past him, it's about a step and a hop and a dunk. Wade needs maybe 2 steps to Lebron's one once Wade blows by someone.

Wade though, can blow by just about anyone anytime he wants and is quicker/trickier if there are defenders in the way.

Sometimes, watching Lebron play makes the sport seem unfair. He's a total beast on the finish and I have no idea how you're supposed to stop him once he has a head of steam going towards the basket.

I don't think Lebron is quicker than Wade. Lebron just has some big *** strides.

Lakersfanla24
06-23-2009, 12:38 AM
"For kobe its good luck"

nuff said :clap:

i.got.the.nutz
06-23-2009, 12:49 AM
"For kobe its good luck"

nuff said :clap:

When I read that I just smiled. :)

sp1derm00
06-23-2009, 01:00 AM
I don't think Lebron is quicker than Wade. Lebron just has some big *** strides.

Yea, and because of those big strides, he's quicker to get to the basket. If nothing is impeding him, he's getting to the rim quicker than anyone once he's past his man.

LakersKB24
06-23-2009, 01:04 AM
When I read that I just smiled. :)

x2 :clap:

Master Mind
06-23-2009, 01:11 AM
Wade's lateral quickness is like no other...

cmellofan15
06-23-2009, 01:15 AM
This pretty much sums it up.

agnine
06-23-2009, 02:38 PM
the biggest difference is the whistle. LeBron gets more calls than either of the other 2, who i've seen go through stretches of pushes and reach-ins with no calls. but when LeBron doesn't get the whistle, he doesn't respond too well to contact, whereas Kobe and Wade will play through, and finish, regardless.

sp1derm00
06-23-2009, 02:46 PM
the biggest difference is the whistle. LeBron gets more calls than either of the other 2, who i've seen go through stretches of pushes and reach-ins with no calls. but when LeBron doesn't get the whistle, he doesn't respond too well to contact, whereas Kobe and Wade will play through, and finish, regardless.

Well, to be clear, Lebron doesn't respond well when they allow contact while he's dribbling. He can't handle the ball as well as Kobe and Wade.

Lebron can play with tons of contact while finishing or making his move to the basket though. Dude absorbs the contact like nothing.

NYsportsGuru
06-23-2009, 02:50 PM
I think the Magic are still trying to figure out how to stop lebron

The same could be said for Kobe as well.

Teeboy1487
06-23-2009, 02:57 PM
Great assessment by Batum. Kobe is more skilled than Lebron and Wade, but Lebron and Wade have more ability than kobe. That's all it sums down to.

SwaggaIke
06-23-2009, 03:47 PM
The same could be said for Kobe as well.

If you switch Kobe w/ Odom or Gasol you might be on to something.

Anyway, Kobe said it best...once Wade comes off the pick he's like a bat out of hell. Its a joy to watch all three play and Batum hit it on the head. Kobe is still BY FAR the best technician in the game at his position, LeBron is just ridiculous and Wade is Wade. If Wade and LeBron ever get the chance to combine technical aspect of the game w/ their athleticism the league will be in for some ****.

sp1derm00
06-23-2009, 04:35 PM
If you switch Kobe w/ Odom or Gasol you might be on to something.

Anyway, Kobe said it best...once Wade comes off the pick he's like a bat out of hell. Its a joy to watch all three play and Batum hit it on the head. Kobe is still BY FAR the best technician in the game at his position, LeBron is just ridiculous and Wade is Wade. If Wade and LeBron ever get the chance to combine technical aspect of the game w/ their athleticism the league will be in for some ****.

If Lebron had Kobe's jumper, he would literally be unstoppable... like, how would you guard Kobe if he were 3 inches taller and had 30-40 lbs of extra muscle.... WITHOUT losing any speed? You couldn't. Lebron has THAT kind of potential.

IF Lebron ever develops a jumper like that, he's going to go down as probably the greatest player the game has ever seen.

Kabowdos
06-23-2009, 05:52 PM
Agreed. We had more trouble containing LeBron, even when his teammates could shoot the ball into the ocean, than we did Kobe. It wasn't a lot more difficult, but as a Magic fan, we struggled more vs. LeBron than Kobe. His athleticism, and passing skills are a deadly combo. They kill you in different ways.

I like the assessment. Kobe is the skilled player. LeBron is the freak. And Wade is Flash.

Interesting post. Magic couldn't stop LeBron, but they beat them up the whole series and won 4-2. Kobe could be stopped... I didn't know 33.5 pts, 7.5 assits, and 5.5 rebounds is now known as stopping a guy... but anyway the Lakers destroyed the Magic 4-1.

Kabowdos
06-23-2009, 05:52 PM
If Lebron had Kobe's jumper, he would literally be unstoppable... like, how would you guard Kobe if he were 3 inches taller and had 30-40 lbs of extra muscle.... WITHOUT losing any speed? You couldn't. Lebron has THAT kind of potential.

IF Lebron ever develops a jumper like that, he's going to go down as probably the greatest player the game has ever seen.

LeBron will hopefully have that jumper before he gets to old and has to rely on that jumper.

Kabowdos
06-23-2009, 05:55 PM
I think the Magic are still trying to figure out how to stop lebron

Look at previous post.

ARMIN12NBA
06-23-2009, 05:57 PM
No. And nor should it ever be.

The NBA used to be a physical sport. Now it's just a sport.

I'm pretty sure that has been a foul for a long time. :laugh2:

RaysFan
06-23-2009, 06:01 PM
I think Batum made an interesting point when he stated that their goal was to make Lebron inefficient in terms of allowing him to take more shots, but at the same time taking his teammates out of the picture. The Magic used that strategy and it worked to their advantage, Lebron was able to get his pts, but the offense was stagnant and guys were watching as oppossed to being involved. The Cavs were at their best when they increased their ball movement., thus involving others and allowing James to close the game out more effectively.

It wasn't Orlando's defense that worked so well...it was Orlando's offense with their pick and rolls and 3-point shooting.

RaysFan
06-23-2009, 06:08 PM
Another thing I look at is LeBron is far more advanced at setting his teammates up than either Kobe or Wade. LeBron sees the game a step or two ahead of everyone else.

azkarraga
06-23-2009, 06:20 PM
i can only say this: batum's (or bowen or any great defender) job is a hell of a job. defending kobe, james or wade. we should give them an appretiation thread. please, let me to take my hat off.

RaiderLakersA's
06-23-2009, 06:29 PM
Another thing I look at is LeBron is far more advanced at setting his teammates up than either Kobe or Wade. LeBron sees the game a step or two ahead of everyone else.

I have to disagree here.

Not to sound like a homer, but Kobe sees the entire floor. He coaches his teammates on the floor. He assesses weaknesses and incongruencies in defense and attacks by setting up his pieces.

Where Kobe needs to continue to improve is the principle of the Triangle where he manipulates defenders in order to set up the pass before the pass that leads to a score. (See Derek Fisher's 3 point game tying shot in game 4 of the Finals for an example of this. Kobe drew in the defenders, passed quickly out to Ariza, to Fisher and bang!) LeBron isn't any further along in that respect either. He makes assists, true, but he doesn't necessarily do anything to turn the game into a multidimensional offensive onslaught. He feels his presence alone is enough. I'm sure all stars feel that way. But eventually they catch on.

Either way, this league is in good hands for the foreseeable future.

Lakersfan2483
06-23-2009, 06:41 PM
Another thing I look at is LeBron is far more advanced at setting his teammates up than either Kobe or Wade. LeBron sees the game a step or two ahead of everyone else.

I don't agree with that, both Wade and Kobe are excellent floor generals and see the court just as well. Kobe in particular was brilliant in terms of his playmaking against Denver and Orlando and that was a major difference in both series. It wasn't always about his 30 plus points, rather it was his 8 plus assist games that were difference makers. He made so many of the key plays down the stretch of games that changed the outcome..... Wade can do the same thing...

Lakersfan2483
06-23-2009, 06:46 PM
It wasn't Orlando's defense that worked so well...it was Orlando's offense with their pick and rolls and 3-point shooting.

It's true the Magic were a nightmare for the Cavs to matchup with, but there strategy worked in terms of limiting the other players on the court and forcing James to have to do everything. They didn't mind seeing him get his 40, especially if others weren't in the rhythm/flow of the ball game.

Pornstar86
06-23-2009, 07:21 PM
i believe thats a pretty fair assesment...wade is quick and strong, especially for his size, and has a sweet midrange....lebron is a freak who can leap from the free throw line at any time (by the way, i have a feeling that if lebron wants to really be jordan status, he will attempt some sort of free throw dunk next year in the contest, possibly a two-handed dunk)....and kobe is so damn polished that he really can kill you from anywhere, 3pt, midrange, and driving to the basket

tr4shb0t
06-23-2009, 07:28 PM
You aren't as big of a threat if you can't shoot the basketball well. If all you do is charge into the paint, the opposing team can be 1 step ahead of you.

RaysFan
06-23-2009, 08:14 PM
I like Laker fans but you guys are REALLY homers if you want to say that Kobe is as good as LeBron when it comes to setting teammates up. LeBron is one of the best in the NBA. I don't even think Kobe will agree that he is as good as LeBron when it comes to passing and setting his team up.

SwaggaIke
06-23-2009, 08:43 PM
I like Laker fans but you guys are REALLY homers if you want to say that Kobe is as good as LeBron when it comes to setting teammates up. LeBron is one of the best in the NBA. I don't even think Kobe will agree that he is as good as LeBron when it comes to passing and setting his team up.

Wade is just as good at setting his teammates up, as evidenced by the amount of assists he is able to account for year after year. If Wade had guys like Williams and West knocking down threes for him all year long he would have averaged 9 a game at least. Dwyane's court vision is right up there w/ LeBron's.

Master Mind
06-23-2009, 08:43 PM
Lebron is a hell of a passer

Zefflin
06-23-2009, 10:40 PM
Lebron forces passes all the time. He just barrels around with the ball in his hands looking for a tiny opening to a teammate. Like a sterioded up AI...no flow or style like Kobe or Wade.

geoffizfoshiz
06-23-2009, 11:02 PM
Give me Kobe over LeBron or Wade any day. Athletic ability only gets you so far. If you don't have a a high level jump shot, you'll level off with age.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-23-2009, 11:10 PM
You cant guard any of them. Thats what the scouting report should say

ko8e24
06-24-2009, 01:02 AM
the biggest difference is the whistle. LeBron gets more calls than either of the other 2, who i've seen go through stretches of pushes and reach-ins with no calls. but when LeBron doesn't get the whistle, he doesn't respond too well to contact, whereas Kobe and Wade will play through, and finish, regardless.


Although this may be true.....


This thread is dedicated (I believe) in appreciating at the same time, three great players.

ko8e24
06-24-2009, 01:05 AM
Give me Kobe over LeBron or Wade any day. Athletic ability only gets you so far. If you don't have a a high level jump shot, you'll level off with age.


I do agree with you. However, I feel D-Wade is highly underrated, and ultimately, I feel that the way Kobe Bryant was the heir to Michael Jordan, I strongly believe that Dwyane Wade will be the heir to Kobe Bryant. Why? Because all 3 are shooting guards who have above average mid-range games and beautiful moves where all can/could get to the basket easily. Although Wade will not be better than Kobe at the end (like Kobe will never be better than Mike, but will be the closest), Wade will be close to Kobe's standards.

AIverson
06-24-2009, 01:47 AM
You cant guard any of them. Thats what the scouting report should say

^This.


Although it obvious that Lebron's the best player, give me Wade's play style and speed over both the other guys.

JordansBulls
06-24-2009, 08:50 AM
You cant guard any of them. Thats what the scouting report should say

Not with one player.

philab
06-24-2009, 11:14 AM
"For kobe its good luck"

nuff said

Yeah, that was a fairly predictable and accurate assessment.

It's much more of a helpless feeling when a guy hits a 20-foot jumper in your eye than when a guy blows by you for a basket. When you're playing solid D and a guy blows past, it's "oh, he got me that time." When you're playing solid D and a guy hits a fadeaway jumper, it's "what the hell more can I do?"

JayW_1023
06-24-2009, 12:01 PM
Kobe is the most skilled. He really is poetry in motion, being able to score on all angles, off post ups, pull ups drives. Plus he is great at always giving himself a good look. Plus, he is as comfortable hitting contested shots as uncontested ones.

Wade is by far the most explosive of three...he is strong, fast and athletic. He is also very unpredictable and the most creative off the dribble of the three. While accurate from mid range, he is however the worst long range shooter of the three.

LeBron is physically the most dominant and has the best court vision of the three. Being dominant also means he is predictable, but unstoppable on the drive or in transition. His jumper however is erratic and his main weakness...his perimeter game is inferior compared to Kobe and Wade.

Pornstar86
06-24-2009, 12:23 PM
Give me Kobe over LeBron or Wade any day. Athletic ability only gets you so far. If you don't have a a high level jump shot, you'll level off with age.

although i do think kobe is the best right now...you really think kobe's shot is that much more advanced then wade's??? get real buddy....wade's midrange is money from anywhere, and his 3pt is starting to be a threat also....don't forget kobe has those extra 2 inches and 3 years on wade, and wade still proves he can be the biggest threat on the offensive and defensive side of the ball

BULLSFAN0810
06-24-2009, 01:00 PM
How to STOP KOBE LBJ & DWADE 101 AS WRITTEN IN MY 2K9 RULE BOOK .......

KOBE : YOU MUST PUT A HAND IN A FACE AND SQUARE UP , FORCE HIM TO HELP ...(be physical)

LBJ : YOU MUST BE OFF HIM 2 STEPS ALLOW THE J 20 FT AWAY (with contest)

DWADE: MUST HAVE A SG THATS BIG AND FAST ENOUGH TO CUT OFF ANGLES , ie KIRK HEINRICH .... DWADE IS A GREAT COMBO GUARD , LENGHTH BOTHERS HIM .

Born a Brave
06-24-2009, 02:36 PM
Great article comparing LeBron's game winning 3 pointer against the Magic in this year's playoffs with Michael Jordan's game winner over Craig Ehlo in the 1989 playoffs..... Must read for all NBA fans!!

http://www.atlantabravesnews.com/bornabrave/weblog/7634/le-shot-will-never-replace-the-shot.html

sp1derm00
06-24-2009, 02:44 PM
Wade is probably one of the most physical guards we have in this league. He is freakishly athletic, but he's also still human.

I remember Wade sitting out practices towards the end of the season to get himself healthier and in better shape in preperation for the playoffs. This would really worry me and cause me to question his overall drurability.

I believe Wade's game has changed since his shoulder injury, but he NEEDS to change his game even more to prevent a Tmac-like crash!

Master Mind
06-24-2009, 03:18 PM
Kobe is the most skilled. He really is poetry in motion, being able to score on all angles, off post ups, pull ups drives. Plus he is great at always giving himself a good look. Plus, he is as comfortable hitting contested shots as uncontested ones.

Wade is by far the most explosive of three...he is strong, fast and athletic. He is also very unpredictable and the most creative off the dribble of the three. While accurate from mid range, he is however the worst long range shooter of the three.

LeBron is physically the most dominant and has the best court vision of the three. Being dominant also means he is predictable, but unstoppable on the drive or in transition. His jumper however is erratic and his main weakness...his perimeter game is inferior compared to Kobe and Wade.

:confused:

JayW_1023
06-24-2009, 07:24 PM
:confused:

Wade is a superior mid-range shooter...but oddly enough LeBron is slightly a better long range shooter than Wade. Still Wade's shooting form is much better and more consistent so you can't afford to play him loose as often as LeBron.