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FLA_FTW
06-22-2009, 07:17 PM
After a poor 1-5 start and ERA over 8, Daisuke Matsuzaka is back on the DL. Do you think its time to finally dump him on my fantasy team and get a solid pitcher off of waivers?

Les Cowboys
06-22-2009, 07:20 PM
After a poor 1-5 start and ERA over 8, Daisuke Matsuzaka is back on the DL. Do you think its time to finally dump him on my fantasy team and get a solid pitcher off of waivers?

I would dump him. Peter Gammons is saying that he thinks he'll be out at least 6 weeks. That's just what he thinks, but it sounds like the injury is more serious than just fatigue.

Zaunnie
06-22-2009, 07:30 PM
All japanese pitchers expire at 3 years.

FLA_FTW
06-22-2009, 07:38 PM
Should I pick up Jason Marquis or Rick Porcello?

jayl1377
06-22-2009, 07:45 PM
Marquis

Les Cowboys
06-22-2009, 07:52 PM
All japanese pitchers expire at 3 years.

Do you remember Hideo Nomo?

JaysFan87
06-22-2009, 07:55 PM
Porcello

Jays Claw
06-22-2009, 08:10 PM
I would go with Rick Porcello.

cheerio
06-22-2009, 08:11 PM
Marquis

Get Marquis and send Dice-K to STL so Duncan can work with him, I am sure there is someone from the Cardinals that wants to go to Boston

jayjay124
06-22-2009, 08:12 PM
Pick up Porcello, do NOT pick up Marquis

Les Cowboys
06-22-2009, 08:53 PM
Get Marquis and send Dice-K to STL so Duncan can work with him, I am sure there is someone from the Cardinals that wants to go to Boston

We'll take Albert Pujols off your hands so you can free up some salary :D

Zaunnie
06-22-2009, 10:01 PM
Do you remember Hideo Nomo?

He was pretty much crap after 2 years

iam brett favre
06-22-2009, 10:02 PM
I think last year was more of a fluke then this year. Yes, in his rookie year he had 15 wins. But, his 4.40 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 108 ERA+ really was nothing that special.
Is it time to give up on him? With the money he's making, you can't. They paid what, 50 MIL to TALK to him? Nah, too soon. But, I'd say if he pitches this whole season his ERA would never come below 5.

iam brett favre
06-22-2009, 10:04 PM
Do you remember Hideo Nomo?

Yes, I do.
His ERA went up almost 2 runs after his 2nd year. Sure, he went on to pitch over 1500 innings, but his ERA in that time was 4.57. 1.4 WHIP. 92 ERA+...not really help prove anything in your fairytale favor.

ccspence8
06-22-2009, 10:31 PM
DiceK injured himself in the WBC that's why he's pitching bad. I don't think this is the end for him. You don't just post an ERA under 3 last year and then never pitch under 5 again.

I just hope he gets it together for next year...even better if by Sept or Oct

iam brett favre
06-22-2009, 10:35 PM
DiceK injured himself in the WBC that's why he's pitching bad. I don't think this is the end for him. You don't just post an ERA under 3 last year and then never pitch under 5 again.

I just hope he gets it together for next year...even better if by Sept or Oct

Chien Ming Wang...ok, not an ERA under 3, but still 19 wins consecutivley.
Maybe he's hurt, but I think theres more to it. Expect a lot of work being done on Dice K's mechanics in this DL stint..if its not fixed, I doubt he will improve too dramatically this season.

ccspence8
06-22-2009, 10:41 PM
He was pretty much crap after 2 years

He only threw 2 no hitters, was the ROY, lead leaguer in K's twice and pitched 6 awesome seasons.

1995 13-6 2.54 ERA 236K
1996 16-11 3.19 ERA 234K
1997 14-12 4.25 ERA 233K
2001 13-10 4.50 ERA 220K
2002 16-6 3.39 ERA 193K
2003 16-13 3.09 ERA 177K

ccspence8
06-22-2009, 10:43 PM
Yes, I do.
His ERA went up almost 2 runs after his 2nd year. Sure, he went on to pitch over 1500 innings, but his ERA in that time was 4.57. 1.4 WHIP. 92 ERA+...not really help prove anything in your fairytale favor.

His career ERA is 4.24 and WHIP 1.35...don't know where your getting your numbers.

Les Cowboys
06-22-2009, 11:38 PM
Yes, I do.
His ERA went up almost 2 runs after his 2nd year. Sure, he went on to pitch over 1500 innings, but his ERA in that time was 4.57. 1.4 WHIP. 92 ERA+...not really help prove anything in your fairytale favor.

If you remember Hideo Nomo, then surely you remember his 215+ inning, low 3's ERA seasons 8 and 9 years into his career. Not all Japanese pitchers are the same person. It's pretty silly to claim that they all burn out after 3 years, and I can come up with plenty of Japanese pitchers who that's not true for.

Les Cowboys
06-22-2009, 11:41 PM
I think last year was more of a fluke then this year. Yes, in his rookie year he had 15 wins. But, his 4.40 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 108 ERA+ really was nothing that special.
Is it time to give up on him? With the money he's making, you can't. They paid what, 50 MIL to TALK to him? Nah, too soon. But, I'd say if he pitches this whole season his ERA would never come below 5.

He definitely overachieved last year, but you're going overboard saying he's more like a 8.23 ERA pitcher than a 2.90 ERA pitcher. His FIP last year says that if he didn't overachieve, he should have had an ERA of 4.03.

iam brett favre
06-23-2009, 12:11 AM
He definitely overachieved last year, but you're going overboard saying he's more like a 8.23 ERA pitcher than a 2.90 ERA pitcher. His FIP last year says that if he didn't overachieve, he should have had an ERA of 4.03.

Yes, I meant to clarify that I didn't think he was an 8+ Era guy...more like a 4.5-5.2 ERA guy.

Bo Sox Fan
06-23-2009, 12:21 AM
i'd rather have matsuzaka than wang

iam brett favre
06-23-2009, 12:26 AM
i'd rather have matsuzaka than wang

Dice-K hasn't been much better than Wang this year, at all.

degnor
06-23-2009, 01:12 AM
I think last year was more of a fluke then this year. Yes, in his rookie year he had 15 wins. But, his 4.40 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 108 ERA+ really was nothing that special.
Is it time to give up on him? With the money he's making, you can't. They paid what, 50 MIL to TALK to him? Nah, too soon. But, I'd say if he pitches this whole season his ERA would never come below 5.

well, they only had to pay it if he signed, but yeah, you make good points. he might not be the Ace everyone thought he would be.

that being said, i'd say leave him. most fantasy leagues are devoid of solid starters on the free agent list at this point. So either you get really lucky with someone no one in their right mind would want or you can find a decent middle reliever who helps trim your ERA slightly.

degnor
06-23-2009, 01:13 AM
Dice-K hasn't been much better than Wang this year, at all.

Well, Wang had the worst first five starts in baseball history...so, EVERYONE in the history of baseball has been better than Wang.

Les Cowboys
06-23-2009, 01:22 AM
Yes, I meant to clarify that I didn't think he was an 8+ Era guy...more like a 4.5-5.2 ERA guy.

He's never been that bad when he's healthy. His rookie year he was better than that. The last two years he's posted a FIP of around 4.20 and 4.00.

Les Cowboys
06-23-2009, 01:25 AM
Dice-K hasn't been much better than Wang this year, at all.

:pity:

Pinstripe pride
06-23-2009, 09:53 AM
DiceK injured himself in the WBC that's why he's pitching bad. I don't think this is the end for him. You don't just post an ERA under 3 last year and then never pitch under 5 again.

I just hope he gets it together for next year...even better if by Sept or Oct

actually, some people do......

TragicallyHip
06-23-2009, 10:17 AM
I mentioned this in the Red Sox forum and Nomo is really the ONLY Asian pitcher who had any kind of prolonged success. I would stay right out of Asia if I was in a big league FO.

iam brett favre
06-23-2009, 11:28 AM
:pity:

Oh yeah I know his 8+ Era and 2.2 WHIP has been so solid, my bad.

Les Cowboys
06-23-2009, 05:50 PM
Oh yeah I know his 8+ Era and 2.2 WHIP has been so solid, my bad.

They're All-Star numbers compared to a 12.30 ERA and a 2.43 WHIP.

Pavelb1
06-23-2009, 05:53 PM
Fantasy-wise...yes, it was time to dump him a while ago.

Even if he had proven to not be a train-wreck, he was still likely to annhilate your WHIP.

iam brett favre
06-23-2009, 05:54 PM
Oh fantasy wise..Yes, defenitley drop him.

Les Cowboys
06-23-2009, 05:54 PM
I mentioned this in the Red Sox forum and Nomo is really the ONLY Asian pitcher who had any kind of prolonged success. I would stay right out of Asia if I was in a big league FO.

Him and Daisuke are the only two elite starting pitchers to come to the U.S. from Japan. You can't base the success of all Japanese pitchers off of guys like Hideki Irabu, Kei Igawa and Masato Yoshii.

iam brett favre
06-23-2009, 05:57 PM
Dice-K is NOT elite. Period.
1 good year does not make him elite.

degnor
06-23-2009, 05:57 PM
I mentioned this in the Red Sox forum and Nomo is really the ONLY Asian pitcher who had any kind of prolonged success. I would stay right out of Asia if I was in a big league FO.

What about Kaz Sasaki or w/e his name was? Used to close for the Mariners. He was pretty good. I think he's managing a Japanese team right now, actually.

degnor
06-23-2009, 05:59 PM
Oh yeah I know his 8+ Era and 2.2 WHIP has been so solid, my bad.

Of course not, that's not what he's saying. It's just that while Dice-K has been bad, Wang has been unbelievably bad. As in, like I said, no has ever had a worse first 5 starts than Wang has had. Ever. It's comparing a .230 hitter with a .180 hitter. One is doing a lot better, but it doesnt mean he's doing well.

Les Cowboys
06-23-2009, 06:04 PM
Dice-K is NOT elite. Period.
1 good year does not make him elite.

I said he was an elite Japanese pitcher. Chill.

Les Cowboys
06-23-2009, 06:06 PM
What about Kaz Sasaki or w/e his name was? Used to close for the Mariners. He was pretty good. I think he's managing a Japanese team right now, actually.

Sasaki broke MLB records before he returned to Japan because of marital issues. Takashi Saito and Hideki Okajima are both past their prime, yet they continue to maintain success in major league baseball.

The Ooh Child
06-23-2009, 06:08 PM
I think last year was more of a fluke then this year. Yes, in his rookie year he had 15 wins. But, his 4.40 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 108 ERA+ really was nothing that special.
Is it time to give up on him? With the money he's making, you can't. They paid what, 50 MIL to TALK to him? Nah, too soon. But, I'd say if he pitches this whole season his ERA would never come below 5.

I would probably kill someone to have a pitcher who could put up that type of production in the Phillies rotation.

And if Dice-K was on my fantasy team, I would definitely get rid of him

Les Cowboys
06-23-2009, 06:28 PM
I mentioned this in the Red Sox forum and Nomo is really the ONLY Asian pitcher who had any kind of prolonged success. I would stay right out of Asia if I was in a big league FO.

I think if teams are going to sign Asian pitchers, they need to do it the way the Yankees drafted Chien-Ming Wang and the Red Sox drafted Junichi Tazawa. You can't wait until they've already established themselves in professional leagues because the baseball is a different size and is made out of a different material in most Asian countries. You need to draft the pitchers young so they have time to adjust to the difference. If you adjust them when they're in their mid-20's and already established, I think that makes it a lot harder for them to adjust and change the way they get hitters out.

degnor
06-23-2009, 06:31 PM
Sasaki broke MLB records before he returned to Japan because of marital issues. Takashi Saito and Hideki Okajima are both past their prime, yet they continue to maintain success in major league baseball.

both good points. Seems like the Japanese players seem to do better in bullpen roles than as starters. Maybe its the shorter seasons in Japan? Who knows.

Les Cowboys
06-23-2009, 06:33 PM
both good points. Seems like the Japanese players seem to do better in bullpen roles than as starters. Maybe its the shorter seasons in Japan? Who knows.

The thing is, starting pitchers in Japan pitch once a week on the same day every week. So they get 6 days of rest opposed to 4. But relief pitchers pitch the same in NPB (Japanese League) as they do in MLB. Cutting your rest almost in half is a huge adjustment for starting pitchers to make and it's not an adjustment relief pitchers have to go through.

Super.
06-23-2009, 10:33 PM
I think last year was more of a fluke then this year. Yes, in his rookie year he had 15 wins. But, his 4.40 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 108 ERA+ really was nothing that special.
Is it time to give up on him? With the money he's making, you can't. They paid what, 50 MIL to TALK to him? Nah, too soon. But, I'd say if he pitches this whole season his ERA would never come below 5.

They're talking about Fantasy baseball lol

in which i would dump him

real life? Hell no

BluejaysFan08
06-23-2009, 10:57 PM
Its time for Boston to ditch him...along with his 1000million dollar contract.

Pavelb1
06-23-2009, 11:29 PM
Its time for Boston to ditch him...along with his 1000million dollar contract.

You just stick to not knowing what you're talking about. It's what you're good at.

papipapsmanny
06-24-2009, 12:24 AM
ill never give up on Dice K or regret signing him because he opened up a revenue and player pipeline from japan that is priceless for the sox, been terrible this year but his short career ERA+ of 114 is solid enough

plus in the WBC he did good, but apparently Japan is more important to him then the sox cause we didnt want him plauing in it at all

Pinstripe pride
06-24-2009, 09:11 AM
Its time for Boston to ditch him...along with his 1000million dollar contract.

Dice-K's contract was in the 50 millions range. I think he got something like 20 mil left on it. He really isn't making to terrinly much for a starting pitcher to give a need to get rid of him.

nymetsrule
06-24-2009, 10:15 AM
After a poor 1-5 start and ERA over 8, Daisuke Matsuzaka is back on the DL. Do you think its time to finally dump him on my fantasy team and get a solid pitcher off of waivers?

There is somebody out there in your league that would want him, I am sure. Try to find a trade you can put together.

FLeays
06-24-2009, 10:20 AM
Will never understand why MLB teams overpay for talent untested in the MLB. Irabu, Contreras, Dice-K (and his gyroball). Nomo was an exception I guess.

FLeays
06-24-2009, 10:30 AM
Dice-K's contract was in the 50 millions range. I think he got something like 20 mil left on it. He really isn't making to terrinly much for a starting pitcher to give a need to get rid of him.

Still there are MUCH better pitchers that cost a lot LESS than what Boston paid for Dice-K. Another poster suggested that it is more valuable to open up the Japan market to Boston, however if Dice-K is or was considered the best pitcher in Japan then how much can the "access" to Japan's market really be worth?

I would say that if Boston were not in first place (and by 5 games at that) though then Dice-K would come under much more scrutiny. If the Boston SP starts to get hit with injuries or the offense starts to unravel (which I don't see happening now since Ortiz hitting a little better) then I'd be worried about what to do with Dice-k.

Pinstripe pride
06-24-2009, 11:17 AM
Still there are MUCH better pitchers that cost a lot LESS than what Boston paid for Dice-K. Another poster suggested that it is more valuable to open up the Japan market to Boston, however if Dice-K is or was considered the best pitcher in Japan then how much can the "access" to Japan's market really be worth?

I would say that if Boston were not in first place (and by 5 games at that) though then Dice-K would come under much more scrutiny. If the Boston SP starts to get hit with injuries or the offense starts to unravel (which I don't see happening now since Ortiz hitting a little better) then I'd be worried about what to do with Dice-k.


Name me some much better pithcers for cheaper than th 6 year 52 million dollar contract Dice-K signed.

FLeays
06-24-2009, 12:13 PM
Name me some much better pithcers for cheaper than th 6 year 52 million dollar contract Dice-K signed.

Read my post please: I wrote what it COST the Red Sox. It did not cost the Red Sox $52 million for Dice-K to pitch for them over 6 years, they had to pay the $51 million just to talk to Dice-K so essentially it cost the Red Sox $103 million over 6 seasons...

Mark Buehrle
Roy Halladay
Justin Verlander
Josh Beckett
Tim Lincecum
Zack Greinke
Chad Billingsley
Dan Haren

FLeays
06-24-2009, 12:16 PM
Dice-K is NOT elite. Period.
1 good year does not make him elite.

Thank you

GrkGawdofWalkz
06-24-2009, 12:56 PM
People get way to hasty about trading pitching jesus christ. :rolleyes: 18-3 2.9ish ERA. He's having arm problems due to the WBC. The Red Sox have more than enough depth and he's 28. Beckett had a bad year last year late in the year should we trade him? Penny went from a 6 era to a high 4.94 ERA and has done well his last 5 starts reaching 95 - 96 MPH on his fastball. Close threads like this, if they won't move Penny moving a franchise talent won't happen.

Tragedy
06-24-2009, 01:10 PM
Read my post please: I wrote what it COST the Red Sox. It did not cost the Red Sox $52 million for Dice-K to pitch for them over 6 years, they had to pay the $51 million just to talk to Dice-K so essentially it cost the Red Sox $103 million over 6 seasons...

Mark Buehrle
Roy Halladay
Justin Verlander
Josh Beckett
Tim Lincecum
Zack Greinke
Chad Billingsley
Dan Haren
No, it does not essentially cost the Red Sox $103 million over 6 years for the fact that the money they paid was upfront and has NO bearing on their yearly payroll. So, you're free to count $51 million for Matsuzaka to their payroll every year, and that's all.

Pavelb1
06-24-2009, 01:51 PM
No, it does not essentially cost the Red Sox $103 million over 6 years for the fact that the money they paid was upfront and has NO bearing on their yearly payroll. So, you're free to count $51 million for Matsuzaka to their payroll every year, and that's all.

Also teams keep international merchandise sales. They don't have to split it up. So those 34 wins? They were free thank you.

sep11ie
06-24-2009, 02:32 PM
I think last year was more of a fluke then this year. Yes, in his rookie year he had 15 wins. But, his 4.40 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 108 ERA+ really was nothing that special.
Is it time to give up on him? With the money he's making, you can't. They paid what, 50 MIL to TALK to him? Nah, too soon. But, I'd say if he pitches this whole season his ERA would never come below 5.

He's talking about his fantasy team

YankeeFan28
06-24-2009, 02:37 PM
Still there are MUCH better pitchers that cost a lot LESS than what Boston paid for Dice-K. Another poster suggested that it is more valuable to open up the Japan market to Boston, however if Dice-K is or was considered the best pitcher in Japan then how much can the "access" to Japan's market really be worth?

I would say that if Boston were not in first place (and by 5 games at that) though then Dice-K would come under much more scrutiny. If the Boston SP starts to get hit with injuries or the offense starts to unravel (which I don't see happening now since Ortiz hitting a little better) then I'd be worried about what to do with Dice-k.

I would venture out and take a wild guess that with advertising and TV deals from Japan, the Sox are probably getting at least 8 to 10 million a year at the minimum. Over the course of his contract and I'm sure they will make back the posting fee at the very least.

sep11ie
06-24-2009, 03:51 PM
Are none of you reading his post below the ****ing title? IT'S HIS FANTASY TEAM!

sep11ie
06-24-2009, 03:52 PM
You don't get fantasy points from oversea TV deals...

FLeays
06-24-2009, 07:11 PM
No, it does not essentially cost the Red Sox $103 million over 6 years for the fact that the money they paid was upfront and has NO bearing on their yearly payroll. So, you're free to count $51 million for Matsuzaka to their payroll every year, and that's all.

So would you rather pay $51 million upfront then the $52 million for 6 years for Dice-K or $103 over 6 years for a Roy Halladay? At the end doesn't it workout to the same amount of money?

Also at the end of the 6 years how much would it have cost the Red Sox for Dice-K to pitch for the Red Sox? I don't see how you make $51 million in upfront fees disappear, it was allocated to sign Dice-K - even though it didn't go into Dice-K's pocket.

I don't know how else to explain this to you. The Red Sox might have a deal with the Japan media that'll help the Red Sox recoup that fee (which I had no idea about); if that is then I'd agree $52 million/6 years is probably fair for Dice-K.

Pavelb1
06-24-2009, 07:57 PM
it is time to get rid of dice-k. i wrote about it in my blog: http://mlbbabble.wordpress.com/2009/06/22/red-sox-blow-100-million-on-dice-k/

he has not been worth his contact by any means

34 wins....about 23 million paid to him so far. Probably 50 million in related merchandise brought in from Japan. Babble is right.

Tragedy
06-25-2009, 02:32 AM
So would you rather pay $51 million upfront then the $52 million for 6 years for Dice-K or $103 over 6 years for a Roy Halladay? At the end doesn't it workout to the same amount of money?

Also at the end of the 6 years how much would it have cost the Red Sox for Dice-K to pitch for the Red Sox? I don't see how you make $51 million in upfront fees disappear, it was allocated to sign Dice-K - even though it didn't go into Dice-K's pocket.

I don't know how else to explain this to you. The Red Sox might have a deal with the Japan media that'll help the Red Sox recoup that fee (which I had no idea about); if that is then I'd agree $52 million/6 years is probably fair for Dice-K.
That's all completely irrelevant, you realize, right? If after the 2006 season Doc Halladay was a free agent and Matsuzaka was posted, I would have been upset to see the Yankees sign Halladay for $102 million while the Sox spent the $51 million on posting and the $51 on his contract -- I would have much rather had Roy Halladay, the proven AL East pitcher in that spot.

But none of that is/was the case. Matsuzaka was posted in 2006, and Halladay was still going strong as a member of the Blue Jays. There were no other options that year as free agents that the Red Sox seemed truly interested in (starting pitching). We needed another pitcher. It's all very, very different (as well as irrelevant).

The point is, the money is the same for your point about Halladay and Matsuzaka, but the way it's distributed is not only very important, but very different. Spending $102 million on an MLB free agent over 6 years means every year, on average, you're getting hit by about $17 million towards your teams payroll. With the posting fee being an upfront sum, the team only worries about $51 million over the next 6 years towards their payroll - In other words, on average $8 million per season.

I understand what you're saying - The team spent $102 million in the end. My point is that it's a much different $102.

Finally - As others have mentioned, all the TV and merchandise the Red Sox secured in Japan after the Matsuzaka acquisition should AT LEAST allow them to recover the posting fee.

DJYankee
06-25-2009, 03:36 AM
I trade kei Igawa for Dice-k in a heartbeat! Is that fair?

Pinstripe pride
06-25-2009, 09:52 AM
So would you rather pay $51 million upfront then the $52 million for 6 years for Dice-K or $103 over 6 years for a Roy Halladay? At the end doesn't it workout to the same amount of money?

Also at the end of the 6 years how much would it have cost the Red Sox for Dice-K to pitch for the Red Sox? I don't see how you make $51 million in upfront fees disappear, it was allocated to sign Dice-K - even though it didn't go into Dice-K's pocket.

I don't know how else to explain this to you. The Red Sox might have a deal with the Japan media that'll help the Red Sox recoup that fee (which I had no idea about); if that is then I'd agree $52 million/6 years is probably fair for Dice-K.

Ok, since Halladay was not available that year, I don;'t see your point. Any team would love Halladay, but he's a blue jay and always has been. The choice was Dice-K or guys like kevin millwood

kenito001
06-27-2009, 02:01 PM
That's all completely irrelevant, you realize, right? If after the 2006 season Doc Halladay was a free agent and Matsuzaka was posted, I would have been upset to see the Yankees sign Halladay for $102 million while the Sox spent the $51 million on posting and the $51 on his contract -- I would have much rather had Roy Halladay, the proven AL East pitcher in that spot.

But none of that is/was the case. Matsuzaka was posted in 2006, and Halladay was still going strong as a member of the Blue Jays. There were no other options that year as free agents that the Red Sox seemed truly interested in (starting pitching). We needed another pitcher. It's all very, very different (as well as irrelevant).

The point is, the money is the same for your point about Halladay and Matsuzaka, but the way it's distributed is not only very important, but very different. Spending $102 million on an MLB free agent over 6 years means every year, on average, you're getting hit by about $17 million towards your teams payroll. With the posting fee being an upfront sum, the team only worries about $51 million over the next 6 years towards their payroll - In other words, on average $8 million per season.

I understand what you're saying - The team spent $102 million in the end. My point is that it's a much different $102.

Finally - As others have mentioned, all the TV and merchandise the Red Sox secured in Japan after the Matsuzaka acquisition should AT LEAST allow them to recover the posting fee.

Why do you even speak of money? The Red Sox, just like the Yankees and Mets, spend money to win and can absorb the cost bad investments. Millions really don't matter. Yes, the Sox have made a gold mine out of Japan like the Yankees did with Matsui and it has paid off. But regardless of whether its Dice-K or any other player costing $100+ million, the Sox are the Sox and they will make money.

Seamhead
06-30-2009, 02:59 AM
So would you rather pay $51 million upfront then the $52 million for 6 years for Dice-K or $103 over 6 years for a Roy Halladay? At the end doesn't it workout to the same amount of money?

The difference is that over the 6 years, at any point, you have the option of trading the player and his contract away to another team. If you pay $51 mil up front, then there's no way to get that back/get rid of the obligation to pay.

lil'papi
06-30-2009, 08:10 AM
The difference is that over the 6 years, at any point, you have the option of trading the player and his contract away to another team. If you pay $51 mil up front, then there's no way to get that back/get rid of the obligation to pay.

HUH? They already are recouping this money. They are also getting players they wouldn't have gotten without the Dicek connection. You don't make much sense here.

The posting fee was to win the rights to negotiate. Nothing to do with a contract or trade values. RS will recoup this money over the next years through merchandise sales overseas and the inside track to pitchers like Tazawa.

Win win.......is he earning his contract? Hell no....he did the first two years this year he isn't worth squat. Can't really argue that, but his contract is longer than this year. He could be a cy young winner next year? Nobody knows ...

So basically add in Tazawa value, Okijima's value and then you see why Dicek was worth the extra 51mil.

cle12152433
06-30-2009, 08:45 AM
everyoner thought Hideki Irabu was da **** too

Pinstripe pride
06-30-2009, 09:11 AM
everyoner thought Hideki Irabu was da **** too

are you trying to tell me he wasn't?............

Seamhead
06-30-2009, 01:09 PM
HUH? They already are recouping this money. They are also getting players they wouldn't have gotten without the Dicek connection. You don't make much sense here.

The posting fee was to win the rights to negotiate. Nothing to do with a contract or trade values. RS will recoup this money over the next years through merchandise sales overseas and the inside track to pitchers like Tazawa. l.
That's pretty irrelevant to what I said. You're talking about something completely different.

JayAllDay
06-30-2009, 01:22 PM
Yes, I do.
His ERA went up almost 2 runs after his 2nd year. Sure, he went on to pitch over 1500 innings, but his ERA in that time was 4.57. 1.4 WHIP. 92 ERA+...not really help prove anything in your fairytale favor.

That career stat line doesn't seem to warrant a trip to the minors. Great? No. Good? Not really. Horrible? No.

On the other hand, Dice-K is horrible. He was never good, and considering the money that was spent to sign the guy, he's in the gutters.

JayAllDay
06-30-2009, 01:33 PM
are you trying to tell me he wasn't?............

There was nobody better than Hideki Irabu at throwing a HBP

TO THE FACE

He had a heavy *** 4-seamer that I'm convinced that he refused to control and often threw it at batter's faces. I remember him hitting a Royals batter and the batter foamed up at the plate and the broadcast cut to commercials.

He was quite literally the most dangerous pitcher on the mound. O man, I crack myself up!

Oh yeah btw

Irabu > Dice-K

astavria
06-30-2009, 02:53 PM
this thread should b in the red sox forum. Honestly, I could care less what any of u have to say about Dice -K if ur not a Red Sox fan. Marquis for Dice - K? Theo would have to be on crack to make that trade after spending 100 million to have him.

We dont need to do anything with Dice-K. He is on the DL and is gonna getting help by one of the best pitching coaches in the game. We have Smoltz in his spot and Clay ready to step in if anything wrong should happen. No way he gets dealt or put on waivers.

Rediq comments!