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Mile High Champ
06-22-2009, 09:18 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember but I conducted a poll at the start of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

PG Rankings DONT FORGET TO VOTE!!

1) Chris Paul
2) Deron Williams
3) Chauncey Billups
4) Tony Parker
5) Steve Nash
6) Derrick Rose
7) Devin Harris
8)

Last Years PG rankings:


1) Chris Paul
2) Steve Nash
3) Deron Williams
4) Baron Davis
5) Tony Parker
6) Jason Kidd
7) Chauncey Billups
8) Gilbert Arenas
9) Jose Calderon
10) Andre Miller

Mile High Champ
06-22-2009, 09:20 AM
After the rose-harris debate, who will be next..

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2009, 09:22 AM
Jose, Jose Jose Jose, Jose, Jose.

chitownbulls
06-22-2009, 09:47 AM
Rondo, but if Nelson was healthier it would have been him.

jkiddvc20
06-22-2009, 09:48 AM
Lol Kidd is better than Rondo, Nelson, and probably even Harris and Rose. Do not even get me started about Jose Calderon.

Tom81
06-22-2009, 10:03 AM
Rajon Rondo

Jabears85
06-22-2009, 10:10 AM
Lol Kidd is better than Rondo, Nelson, and probably even Harris and Rose. Do not even get me started about Jose Calderon.

Thank you Calderon SUCKS!

zo#33
06-22-2009, 10:13 AM
Rondo

todu82
06-22-2009, 10:15 AM
Rajon Rondo

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2009, 10:18 AM
Thank you Calderon SUCKS!

13 points and 9 assist with only 1 turnover while averaging 50%fg, 40%3fg and +90%ft sucks? I guess 18 points and 6 assist with 2 turnovers is all-star number.

29$JerZ
06-22-2009, 10:22 AM
I'll say Jameer Nelson

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2009, 10:23 AM
Lol Kidd is better than Rondo, Nelson, and probably even Harris and Rose. Do not even get me started about Jose Calderon.

I'll start it for you.

Averages 13ppg, 9apg, 3 rpg, 40% 3fg, 50% fg, 98% ft, 1 spg, 2tpg.

He averages 9apg with only 2 turnovers. That sucks to you?

JordansBulls
06-22-2009, 10:30 AM
Mo Williams should be top 3.

BullsNumber1Fan
06-22-2009, 10:35 AM
Mo Williams should be top 3.

:laugh2:And you should stop smoking that weed. He averaged 17 PPG/4 APG, ONLY 4 APG and you think he should be top 3!!! :laugh: Mo is not an All-Star and was lucky to be a replacement because he shouldn't have even came close to the All-Star team.

aman_13
06-22-2009, 10:39 AM
Thank you Calderon SUCKS!

How does he suck? :mad:

ManRam
06-22-2009, 10:45 AM
Gotta be Rondo. I think he's better than Harris, and probably better than Rose. He has one weakness, and that's three point shooting. Thing is, unlike Harris, he doesn't jack up tons of crappy shots. Rondo is better than Rose and Harris at passing, rebounding and defense. If he is the number one or two option, he puts up far better numbers than both.

J_M_B
06-22-2009, 10:55 AM
Rajon Rondo

jim51990
06-22-2009, 11:31 AM
if calderon is top ten then this is a complete joke

Mile High Champ
06-22-2009, 11:39 AM
if calderon is top ten then this is a complete joke

He was last time around, why is it a joke? He is one of the most efficent pg's in the game today, he never turns the ball over, an amazing assist to turnover ratio, easily the best free throw shooter in the game and also shoots a great percentage from the floor. I would take that any day of the week...

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2009, 11:42 AM
if calderon is top ten then this is a complete joke

I'll try not to laugh when he makes it.

Uz13
06-22-2009, 11:52 AM
My vote goes to Calderon........

azkarraga
06-22-2009, 12:05 PM
calderon sucks? lol

then i voted for a PG with top 5 figures that sucks.

azkarraga
06-22-2009, 12:06 PM
ups i forgot... all those tj lovers jose haters...

8kobe24
06-22-2009, 12:12 PM
A lot of people voting for Rondo, though I think this kid might be a one hit wonder. He is lightning quick but is missing a lot of fundamentals IMO. I could be wrong, we shall see....

carter15
06-22-2009, 12:16 PM
jameer nelson...he got hurt..but he made the ASG over all these guys for a reason...

JordansBulls
06-22-2009, 12:18 PM
:laugh2:And you should stop smoking that weed. He averaged 17 PPG/4 APG, ONLY 4 APG and you think he should be top 3!!! :laugh: Mo is not an All-Star and was lucky to be a replacement because he shouldn't have even came close to the All-Star team.

How so? Only guys better than Mo at this point is CP3 and maybe Parker. Let's not forget he made the allstar team as well.
;)

Radio Rakeem
06-22-2009, 12:34 PM
How so? Only guys better than Mo at this point is CP3 and maybe Parker. Let's not forget he made the allstar team as well.
;)

You must be smoking some of that weed too. Only guys better than Mo at this point is CP3 and maybe Parker. Are you freakin' kidding me. Just cause he plays on one of the best teams doesn't solidify him a spot in the top 3.

My vote goes out to Jose Calderon. He is more fundamentally sound than both Rondo and Mo. His stats back that up. Plus, i also see Rondo as a one hit wonder. Put any half decent point guard with KG, Allen and Pierce and they are sure to dish out 8+ assists and get a couple of open looks.

Mile High Champ
06-22-2009, 12:35 PM
How so? Only guys better than Mo at this point is CP3 and maybe Parker. Let's not forget he made the allstar team as well.
;)

haha and he only made it because 4 other guys could not go...

Radio Rakeem
06-22-2009, 12:46 PM
^^ exactly!!

loufor2
06-22-2009, 12:51 PM
Jason KIdd SUCKS!!! The guiy can't score the ball anymore for his life. He passes up wide open shots and just give the balll to dirk every play! I could average 8 assists in the NBA if all i did was pass the ball to dirk every single play. He has lost like 10 steps over the past to years. He used to be great...

loufor2
06-22-2009, 12:54 PM
Mo Williams is not that good.... only 4 assists per game. He hasn't improved that much from last year, he is just in the spotlight now. Many people didn't even know who he was on the Bucks. He was a no show in the playoffs. He may be a top 10 pg at the best. Not a top 3!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jumba
06-22-2009, 12:58 PM
How so? Only guys better than Mo at this point is CP3 and maybe Parker. Let's not forget he made the allstar team as well.
;)


If your saying Mo Williams is better than Deron Williams... especially at point... Wow.

raptors_fanatic
06-22-2009, 01:13 PM
I love how all these guys who were hatin on jose earlier on in the thread never came back w/ a comment.......OWNED!

AntiG
06-22-2009, 01:20 PM
Rondo should have been 6th on this list. He's better than Rose and Harris.

pebloemer
06-22-2009, 01:21 PM
You must be smoking some of that weed too. Only guys better than Mo at this point is CP3 and maybe Parker. Are you freakin' kidding me. Just cause he plays on one of the best teams doesn't solidify him a spot in the top 3.

My vote goes out to Jose Calderon. He is more fundamentally sound than both Rondo and Mo. His stats back that up. Plus, i also see Rondo as a one hit wonder. Put any half decent point guard with KG, Allen and Pierce and they are sure to dish out 8+ assists and get a couple of open looks.

1. There is no way in hell Mo Williams is top 3 PG, I agree. I could definitely find a place for him in the top 10 though.

2. At the moment, I would have to say Rondo and Mo are both better than Calderon. Jose had a great stretch last season while TJ Ford got injured, but he has not been quite the same since that stretch. He has had great games and at the end of the year started to regain his form after the injury he sustained in the olympics bothered him most of the year, but the sample of very good play from him is still relatively small. I like him a lot as a PG and am glad he is on the Raptor's (my favorite team), but I don't think he belongs in the top ten after the season he just had.

Rondo by contrast played well this season and finished unbelievably strong. He runs point in transition much better than Jose, is an exceptional defender, which Jose is not (I do think that Jose's poor defense gets exaggerated a bit much though - it isn't as bad as people claim). Rondo is quicker and shows much more willingness to get into the paint and score. Everyone always uses the fact that Allen, Pierce and Garnett are the reason for his assist totals, but it seems to me that Rondo has his best games when one or more of them are playing poorly or injured. So I have never really bought into that argument.

Nexus
06-22-2009, 01:21 PM
I voted Rondo, but Calderon does not suck. He had a sore hamstring holding him back last season. I hope he comes back in full force this season.

Kakaroach
06-22-2009, 01:24 PM
Wow I did not realize how much Jason Kidd has dropped. I voted for him because he's still better than Rondo.

Chronz
06-22-2009, 02:43 PM
Gotta be Rondo. I think he's better than Harris, and probably better than Rose. He has one weakness, and that's three point shooting. Thing is, unlike Harris, he doesn't jack up tons of crappy shots. Rondo is better than Rose and Harris at passing, rebounding and defense. If he is the number one or two option, he puts up far better numbers than both.

Why do you persist with this argument? Dont you know that the exact opposite could be said about the other, as in Devin would take better shots if he didnt have to take every shot, his passing efficiency would improve with the C's crew, hes not as good of a rebounder but defensively hes superior. You just cant tell because the Nets are **** defensively and hes expending all his energy offensively. Make Devin an afterthought on both ends and hes putting better #'s than Rondo. Im not saying he would, just that Im curious as to how youve managed to say this with such certainty. I have my crude models for making the same kind of predictions but its based off of actual statistical trends, exactly what kind of production would Rondo put up on whatever team you want him on?

Chronz
06-22-2009, 02:45 PM
How so? Only guys better than Mo at this point is CP3 and maybe Parker. Let's not forget he made the allstar team as well.
;)

Should be an interesting case study for our last debate. Mo aint even a top 10 PG and yet you think hes better than Scottie Pippen?

DLeeicious
06-22-2009, 02:52 PM
Mo Williams should be top 3.

For real JB? You think Mo is a top 3 point guard right now? Yikes, gotta disagree with that one.

ManRam
06-22-2009, 02:57 PM
Why do you persist with this argument? Dont you know that the exact opposite could be said about the other, as in Devin would take better shots if he didnt have to take every shot, his passing efficiency would improve with the C's crew, hes not as good of a rebounder but defensively hes superior. You just cant tell because the Nets are **** defensively and hes expending all his energy offensively. Make Devin an afterthought on both ends and hes putting better #'s than Rondo. Im not saying he would, just that Im curious as to how youve managed to say this with such certainty. I have my crude models for making the same kind of predictions but its based off of actual statistical trends, exactly what kind of production would Rondo put up on whatever team you want him on?

Because I don't think Harris is really that good. I live outside of NYC for about half the year. I see plenty of Nets games. His stats are just a result of him being on a team with literally two offensive threats, him being one of them. He's fast, very fast. He's quick. That's his main asset. He's a worse shooter than Rondo, a worse defender, a worse rebounder, a worse passer, and just as good of a penetrator. I firmly believe all of those. Just because he scores more points (taking more shots), doesn't make him better. Rondo is a true PG. A leader. A floor general. Harris is getting there, but not yet.

You may be right...but I'm going with my eyes. Rondo puts up average numbers all year, just getting it done. In the playoffs, when their best player goes down, and he has to step up, he become unstoppable. What he did in the playoffs was amazing. Rose had one good game vs. Rondo. Harris didn't make it there.

mrblisterdundee
06-22-2009, 03:04 PM
Rajon Rondo is easily the next on the list. He is what Jason Kidd used to be.

Cubs Win
06-22-2009, 03:14 PM
Rondo should have been 6th on this list. He's better than Rose and Harris.

Not at basketball.

jkiddvc20
06-22-2009, 03:19 PM
BTW Raps08-09 I never said Calderon sucks I just believe that there are better choices for the # 8 PG besides him. Give me Kidd, Nelson, Bibby, and even Rondo ahead of Calderon. Calderon is around #14

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2009, 03:39 PM
JordansBulls= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=305vRNoofr8

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2009, 03:42 PM
BTW Raps08-09 I never said Calderon sucks I just believe that there are better choices for the # 8 PG besides him. Give me Kidd, Nelson, Bibby, and even Rondo ahead of Calderon. Calderon is around #14

Nelson and Rondo ahead of Calderon is probably debatable but Kidd and Bibby are over the hill. Calderon is more efficient and has better stats than both of them.

IversonIsKrazy
06-22-2009, 03:45 PM
Baron Davis is better than Rondo, Kidd, Jose & Nelson.

dtmagnet
06-22-2009, 04:38 PM
BTW Raps08-09 I never said Calderon sucks I just believe that there are better choices for the # 8 PG besides him. Give me Kidd, Nelson, Bibby, and even Rondo ahead of Calderon. Calderon is around #14

Judging from last season I agree about Nelson and Rondo but Kidd is on the decline, and Bibby? Come on.

JordansBulls
06-22-2009, 05:16 PM
Should be an interesting case study for our last debate. Mo aint even a top 10 PG and yet you think hes better than Scottie Pippen?

I never said he was better than Pippen. I said it could be said that Mo Williams last year was about as good as Scottie in 1991. As Mo was an allstar this year while Scottie was not that year.

Mo Williams is the ideal 2nd option for a team.

Chronz
06-22-2009, 06:30 PM
Because I don't think Harris is really that good. I live outside of NYC for about half the year. I see plenty of Nets games. His stats are just a result of him being on a team with literally two offensive threats, him being one of them.
Devin doesnt do any more than CP3 or Tony Parker do, both routinely carry bigger loads when on the floor. The difference is both play on superior defensive teams and of course are superior players themselves. You should judge how well Devin handles his offense. He carried it to respectability, the fact that he doesnt have anyone else to defer attention from him is not an advantage to anyones game. It only hinders what he can accomplish as a slashing PG, though Im not saying he has nothing to work with, they greatly NEEDED his scoring.

To illustrate my point look at his stats when he was last in Dallas to when he was traded to New Jersey. He was forced into a role hes never played, and had to carry more of the teams offense. He struggled with his efficiency, and he actually produced better #'s in his situation in Dallas being an afterthought to Dirk, when he knew what to expect the following season he put in the work to improve his game.




He's fast, very fast. He's quick. That's his main asset.
Luckily for him, its a VERY VERY GOOD ASSET


He's a worse shooter than Rondo
Thats impossible, hes too good of a scorer to not have had some very hot nights. Hes improved his shot quite abit and when he was an afterthought like Rondo is, he shot a respectable % from distance. Hes not worse than Rondo.

, a worse defender
Thats not true, did the C's ever stick Rondo on Kobe or Wade on the regular, Devin is more than up for the challenge.

a worse rebounder
Yes and on a team devoid of rebounders it hurts his team, but really now, its the bigmen that should be rebounding, its not that important usually.



, a worse passer, and just as good of a penetrator. I firmly believe all of those. Just because he scores more points (taking more shots), doesn't make him better. Rondo is a true PG. A leader. A floor general. Harris is getting there, but not yet.

This one we can agree with, Rondo is better at penetrating and finding his shooters, even in Dallas in a similar role Devin never had that eye. Hes honed his court vision since however. Devins better at finishing in the paint though, more trick shots.


You may be right...but I'm going with my eyes. Rondo puts up average numbers all year, just getting it done. In the playoffs, when their best player goes down, and he has to step up, he become unstoppable. What he did in the playoffs was amazing.
The thing about going with your eyes is that you think what your watching is a sign of things to come and a certain caliber of play. When in reality it was a direct result of the loss of KG, the Celtics made the switch to an offense tailor made to fit Rondo's skillset and played him heavier MPG in the playoffs. We saw the same thing play out with Brooks in Houston, but once they get their post offense back it wont be run and gun anymore and they wont be playing him as much. Im not saying its a significant difference because really when you look at the #'s and get past the fact that he almost averaged a triple double they werent far off from what he did all season. And you need to recheck your #'s on Rondo they were far from average. My point is that they werent at Devins level.



Rose had one good game vs. Rondo. Harris didn't make it there.
Harris COULDNT make it there, you cant set such lofty standards for 1 player when all Rose has to do is have 1 good playoff game and Rondo take advantage of teams focusing on shutting down Ray and Pierce, because they can play off of Rondo. Rondo makes his teammates worse in this aspect, Devin puts constant pressure on the defense, even when he doesnt have the ball hes more of a threat to score.

Chronz
06-22-2009, 06:34 PM
I never said he was better than Pippen. I said it could be said that Mo Williams last year was about as good as Scottie in 1991. As Mo was an allstar this year while Scottie was not that year.

Mo Williams is the ideal 2nd option for a team.
Yea thats precisely what I was talking about, its sad that your still defending it.

Your As Mo was an All-star theory has already been debunked and your seeing the results weighed in today. Mo isnt even a for sure top 10 player at his own position, yet you think hes a better player than Scottie because he didnt make it out a few forwards in general.

Scottie Pippen is the ideal/superior PLAYER for any team, as is Horace Grant, BOTH are players that wouldve contributed more to their teams success than anyone Bron had to work with this year. FACT