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Brewers255
06-18-2009, 03:14 AM
Who here are a pretty good expert on sabermetrics? I wanna learn more about them. Would anyone be able to teach me through PM? Who are the most knowledgable users here regarding sabermetrics?

brewersfan729
06-18-2009, 03:21 AM
What do you want to know about them?

Gigantes4Life
06-18-2009, 04:01 AM
Sabermetrics Forum! Oh wait :(

Oh, and as for your request, honestly, there's a LOT to learn really, and I don't think a PM would do justice.

I wouldn't mind as well as I'm sure tons of others wouldn't, but it might take a while to grasp a lot of things (or to at least remember them).

bagwell368
06-18-2009, 08:24 AM
I would say Seamhead is probably the #1 person here. I warn you that I believe he's pretty impatient with newbies. I suggest you search his posts AND the internet looking for terms such as: OBP, BABIP, DERA - along with a key such as "MLB" (in google), you'll find a lot that way.

Getting definitions, or even reading books is nice, but, understanding well enough to see the game and the stats at the same time, and how they relate takes time, and is essentially a never ending quest.

TheRuckus
06-18-2009, 11:11 AM
The easiest thing to do is probably grab The Book. But if you don't feel like picking it up, check sites like Baseball Prospectus, The Hardball Times, Statcorner and Fangraphs, especially the latter. They have a lot of articles about different metrics and their methodologies.

If you want to supplement that by asking questions here, there are a handful of guys who would be able to help you- a quick glance at the "Sabermetrics Suck" thread should give you an idea of who can assist.

degnor
06-18-2009, 11:39 AM
Dear god, no more sabermetrics...

bagwell368
06-18-2009, 12:41 PM
Dear god, no more sabermetrics...

yup, too tough on the weak of brain....

poodski
06-18-2009, 12:59 PM
I think the best place to read up on the internet is www.thehardballtimes.com

The best place for stats is www.fangraphs.com

Seamhead
06-18-2009, 03:01 PM
Go here and go crazy:

http://www.baseboogle.com/

I suggest starting out with terms such as: sabermetric primer, DIPS, fielding, baseruns, etc. BPro has a Prospectus Basics series, so go to BP and search Prospectus Basics.

Seamhead
06-18-2009, 03:01 PM
yup, too tough on the weak of brain....

qft.

C1Bman88
06-18-2009, 03:37 PM
It really depends on what your current knowledge is of basic Baseball statistics. Then you move on from there.

Probably the most important thing you could ever take from sabermetrics are linear weights. DIPS (Defense Independent Pitching Statistics) are pretty damn important too.

whitesoxfan83
06-18-2009, 04:30 PM
Sabermetrics Forum! Oh wait :(

Oh, and as for your request, honestly, there's a LOT to learn really, and I don't think a PM would do justice.

I wouldn't mind as well as I'm sure tons of others wouldn't, but it might take a while to grasp a lot of things (or to at least remember them).

Seriously not having one makes 0 sense. I would also like to learn more about the topic...

degnor
06-18-2009, 04:39 PM
yup, too tough on the weak of brain....

duhhhhhhhhhhh say what?!

djeller1139
06-18-2009, 08:01 PM
I'm actually interested too, so hopefully PSD will really consider that Sabermetrics forum if it hasn't already been shot down...

Seamhead
06-18-2009, 10:06 PM
Why would they shoot it down? There's really no reason to. Unless Wrigley is a baseball person, of course.

giventofly
06-18-2009, 10:22 PM
Why would they shoot it down? There's really no reason to. Unless Wrigley is a baseball person, of course.
The only reason it wouldn't be made, just like any other forum, is the fact that it might be taking away from (in this case) the MLB forum.

Seamhead
06-18-2009, 10:24 PM
The only reason it wouldn't be made, just like any other forum, is the fact that it might be taking away from (in this case) the MLB forum.

It's not like any activity would be leaving the site. It'd just be transferring to another location. In fact, there would be an increase in activity overall.

whitesoxfan83
06-18-2009, 10:26 PM
It's not like any activity would be leaving the site. It'd just be transferring to another location. In fact, there would be an increase in activity overall.

Bingo.

If thats the argument that is going to be made then the MLB forum shouldnt exist because it takes away from the Team Forums.

giventofly
06-18-2009, 10:29 PM
It's not like any activity would be leaving the site. It'd just be transferring to another location. In fact, there would be an increase in activity overall.
Not quite.

There are certain stats per forum that Wrigley prefers and trends towards. That's why there was such a huge debate over making the Entertainment forum and the Music forum. They were experiments, much like this one will probably be.

giventofly
06-18-2009, 10:30 PM
Bingo.

If thats the argument that is going to be made then the MLB forum shouldnt exist because it takes away from the Team Forums.
The MLB forum gives all users opportunities to discuss general baseball related topics that may have nothing to do with a specific team.

whitesoxfan83
06-18-2009, 10:59 PM
Couldnt you say the same thing about Sabermetrics?

Isnt the MLB forum general baseball news and then a Saber forum is one that revolves around numbers but is related to baseball?

Im just not seeing the difference

giventofly
06-18-2009, 11:03 PM
Couldnt you say the same thing about Sabermetrics?

Isnt the MLB forum general baseball news and then a Saber forum is one that revolves around numbers but is related to baseball?

Im just not seeing the difference
I'm not saying I don't like the idea, I'm just saying that I can understand why one wouldn't be created.

Revolving around numbers is about as general as can get, especially when doing statistical analysis on the entire MLB. With the way things are going around here lately, I have a feeling the MLB forum would take a pretty good hit.

TheRuckus
06-19-2009, 12:37 AM
Not quite.

There are certain stats per forum that Wrigley prefers and trends towards. That's why there was such a huge debate over making the Entertainment forum and the Music forum. They were experiments, much like this one will probably be.

Well, those seem to have worked out pretty well.

But yes, a trial run would be nice- both for the people who want an active role in "running" it as much as those who wish to learn- to see how things play out in practice, rather than theory.

There might need to be a zero tolerance policy as far as conduct goes to prevent people who just want to go in and cause trouble instead of actually discuss sabermetrics. Just something to consider.

As far as the MLB forum taking a hit: Yes, it's likely that some posters would be in here much less frequently, but this is still a good place for general discussion of MLB. And I think you might be overestimating the negative impact a little. There has been a lot of SABR chatter lately, but there are still plenty of people who happily remain ignorant of it.

All I'm saying is it would be nice to have a baseball forum where I can read threads without having to hear crap like, "Juan Pierre is a great player," just like people who don't like sabermetrics would probably enjoy this forum more if posts about EqA and FRAR were kept to a minimum.

Driven
06-19-2009, 12:42 AM
Why would they shoot it down? There's really no reason to. Unless Wrigley is a baseball person, of course.
I just don't see it happening.

Driven
06-19-2009, 12:43 AM
Not quite.

There are certain stats per forum that Wrigley prefers and trends towards. That's why there was such a huge debate over making the Entertainment forum and the Music forum. They were experiments, much like this one will probably be.

Yeah, and they worked out. It didn't make any sense to not make those in the first place.

If it's really that much of an issue just make a subforum in the MLB forum. Obviously there are potential issues, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. It's not like if you got rid of it people would not go back to posting in the MLB forum.

07MVPPatBurrell
06-19-2009, 12:53 AM
Who are the most knowledgable users here regarding sabermetrics?

me !

Gigantes4Life
06-19-2009, 01:22 AM
A sub-forum would make the most sense if you're worried about taking away from the main forum.

degnor
06-19-2009, 04:09 AM
The only reason it wouldn't be made, just like any other forum, is the fact that it might be taking away from (in this case) the MLB forum.

Wait, giving Sabermetrics guys their own forum to talk about numbers instead of bringing it up here? That's taking away from this forum?

:p

poodski
06-19-2009, 07:59 AM
Will it take away from the MLB forum? Absolutely.

But the MLB forum is too cluttered as it is.

Pinstripe pride
06-19-2009, 11:55 AM
Who here are a pretty good expert on sabermetrics? Who are the most knowledgable users here regarding sabermetrics?

as long as you have absolutely no follow up questions, I am

papipapsmanny
06-19-2009, 04:04 PM
yup, too tough on the weak of brain....

its simple stat its really not tough once you learn stat in high school

papipapsmanny
06-19-2009, 04:07 PM
i dont think it needs a separate forum what is the point? its baseball.... should we also make a forum for traditional stats? no.... its all baseball and specifically MLB baseball hence the MLB forum.

Seamhead
06-19-2009, 04:41 PM
Traditional Stats isn't a whole branch of baseball analysis. When we talk about sabermetrics, we're not talking about some metrics as much as we're talking about the whole branch, which includes pitch/fx, hit f/x, and even advanced scouting through the use of advanced technology.

Gigantes4Life
06-19-2009, 04:48 PM
i dont think it needs a separate forum what is the point? its baseball.... should we also make a forum for traditional stats? no.... its all baseball and specifically MLB baseball hence the MLB forum.

Player Comparisons is all baseball too.

The field of sabermetrics is so huge right now and it's only growing. There's so many things to talk about that it would have great activity. We really don't have the room in here to do that, since you'd get so many "thats stupid" posts.

natepro
06-19-2009, 04:52 PM
The field of sabermetrics is so huge right now and it's only growing. There's so many things to talk about that it would have great activity. We really don't have the room in here to do that, since you'd get so many "thats stupid" posts.

Indeed.

To be able to talk about it in a forum where you don't have to worry about someone coming in and talking about Ryan Howard's RBI totals or whatever would be...


Well, let's just say the chemistry on these boards would be vastly improved, with the grittyness a forum like that would have.

Gigantes4Life
06-19-2009, 05:11 PM
Good leadership would definitely be needed.

I have a question, has anyone actually directly asked about creating the forum?

papipapsmanny
06-19-2009, 05:31 PM
look i wouldnt mind one it is just this. I feel like if i disagreed with some things which I do. I would want to post the certain things which i disagree with about sabermetrics. I feel if it had a separate forum i would be shunned from it for disgreeing. Because man I have noticed if you have a difference of opinion on the subject some of you can act like real dicks.

I could propose it for you if you wanted, but that is my concern that i would pretty much be warned a lot for "flaming" if i happen to disagree.

poodski
06-19-2009, 05:39 PM
look i wouldnt mind one it is just this. I feel like if i disagreed with some things which I do. I would want to post the certain things which i disagree with about sabermetrics. I feel if it had a separate forum i would be shunned from it for disgreeing. Because man I have noticed if you have a difference of opinion on the subject some of you can act like real dicks.

I could propose it for you if you wanted, but that is my concern that i would pretty much be warned a lot for "flaming" if i happen to disagree.

Disagreeing is one thing.

Saying stuff like "Why even play that game?" or "Stat heads are ruining baseball" is another thing.

papipapsmanny
06-19-2009, 05:55 PM
i have never said that i just think some people follow it tooo religiously

Seamhead
06-19-2009, 06:25 PM
I think religion is stupid, so I don't know what you're talking about.:p

Seamhead
06-19-2009, 06:45 PM
http://haroldreynolds.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/06/enjoy_it_for_what_its_worth.html

From the comments:


I can totally relate Harold. I am a farmer and I can't believe how science has taken over the agriculture business. Like I had an old neighbor who was much like Dick Williams. He said, "If something is going wrong with your crops, then the situation will dictate what to do. Like, if rain is your problem, then sacrifice two goats or one pig. If pests are your problem, then yell at the moon for a forenight and bury three red stones in your field. Problem solved. But I shouldn't have to tell you beforehand, you should know this." Now days they have fancy inventions like irrigation, meteorology, crop rotations, and fertilizers. I am like, "Phooey and bunk!" I am just like you Harold, I don't need their new fangled theories and hocus-pocus in order to understand farming better. I mean a meteorologist has never farmed, what can he tell me or my old neighbor about farming? We reached the pinnacle of understanding with yelling at the moon! The point is that I have nothing left to learn just like you, Harold.

And subsequently.....

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/06/19/bugging-harold-reynolds/

The best baseball writer in America takes down one of the biggest idiots on television....

NYMetros
06-19-2009, 06:58 PM
http://haroldreynolds.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/06/enjoy_it_for_what_its_worth.html

From the comments:



And subsequently.....

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/06/19/bugging-harold-reynolds/

The best baseball writer in America takes down one of the biggest idiots on television....

...wow.

Harold is an idiot.

Gigantes4Life
06-19-2009, 08:51 PM
:laugh: That was awesome.

Cheezombie
06-19-2009, 10:04 PM
I like how his post only got 1 star. Harold Reynolds is not a very bright guy. Good personality, but just not too bright.

Cheezombie
06-19-2009, 10:17 PM
I love this comment:




I have a story. I was in a Calculus II class in the spring semester of my Freshman year in College tought by a man named Roman Iviknajov. On the first day of class we walk into a lecture hall with about 300 desks and a sylabus lying on every one, presumably left there by his TA. After the bell to begin class rang, Roman proceeded to attempt to explain to us in a very thick, almost to an unintelligble degree, Russian accent and severly broken English that a sylabus was on our desk and to review it over the next two days. After that, I was completely lost. He attempted to give a 40 minute lecture on vectors, but I had absolutely no idea what he was talking about. I understood a word or two here and there, but he wasn't capable of communicating to the class well enough to convey the information he was trying to fill our heads with. After 40 minutes of sitting there trying to listen (OK, that's a lie, I gave up after about 10 minutes), he stops and says, "Is there any questions?", again in a nearly unintelligible Russian accent. A gentleman about 10 rows back raised his hand. Roman pointed to him and said, "Yes?". He responded:

"Uhh, yeah. WHAT?!?!?!?!?"

I feel like that gentleman after reading this post.

bagwell368
06-19-2009, 10:41 PM
a priori:


Stats "regular" and "SABR" live on a continuum. They are in opposition. By definition they are objective.

By definition watching a game or playing a game is largely subjective - but not totally so.

ipso facto:


To me, the best posts on the baseball, basketball and football boards are ones that contain observation, trend analysis, and a proposed solution - all together, and in a cohesive form.

To try and tease out newer "SABR" metrics from these posts would be to strip them of vast amounts of supporting data - to the point of absurdity in some cases.

The proposed idea of a separate group could only be generated by the Philistine/anti intellectuals on this board that hide their ignorance behind insults of what they do not understand. No sir. Let them be befuddled (in silence) or let them learn. I refuse to dumb down for them.