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Mile High Champ
06-17-2009, 09:17 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember but I conducted a poll at the start of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round...Enjoy.

In order to save some time, I will already name Paul, Lebron and Kobe as the best at their positions. There aint much reason to vote for the best at PG, SG, SF as we already know what they are.

PG Rankings DONT FORGET TO VOTE!!

1) Chris Paul
2) Deron Williams
3)

Last Years PG rankings:


1) Chris Paul
2) Steve Nash
3) Deron Williams
4) Baron Davis
5) Tony Parker
6) Jason Kidd
7) Chauncey Billups
8) Gilbert Arenas
9) Jose Calderon
10) Andre Miller

zo#33
06-17-2009, 09:20 AM
Nash, with Parker not far behind

Mile High Champ
06-17-2009, 09:21 AM
Poll is now up!

AirJordan23
06-17-2009, 09:21 AM
Billups

pebloemer
06-17-2009, 09:21 AM
I think this one has to be Parker or Billups.

Durant is hype
06-17-2009, 09:27 AM
Billups.

Duncan = Donkey
06-17-2009, 09:30 AM
nash, parker or billups....

jerseykidd88
06-17-2009, 09:30 AM
Dh34

Mile High Champ
06-17-2009, 09:33 AM
I still think Nash is a top three pg. I had to go with him over Parker but it was close.

TYoung21
06-17-2009, 09:33 AM
B B B Billups

Mile High Champ
06-17-2009, 09:33 AM
Homers are out bright and early this morning..

Radio Rakeem
06-17-2009, 09:35 AM
gotta go with billups

Duncan = Donkey
06-17-2009, 09:36 AM
nash is becoming seriousley under rated on these forums. i

ChitownbullsBG7
06-17-2009, 09:49 AM
Billups or Rondo.

DrJamesNaismith
06-17-2009, 09:53 AM
NO HOMERS?! Impossible. Chalk me up for one of the ill chosen Jose Calderon votes. Sorry Mr. Kidd.

azkarraga
06-17-2009, 09:55 AM
Parker/Billups, but id say parker, because of the rings

Duncan = Donkey
06-17-2009, 09:57 AM
i honestly think it can be only either nash, tony parker or chauncy billups. the rest are just are a class behind.

Chi City23
06-17-2009, 09:58 AM
billups then parker

AntiG
06-17-2009, 10:01 AM
Billups or Rondo.

agreed

29$JerZ
06-17-2009, 10:01 AM
Tony Parker

Brooklyn Mets
06-17-2009, 10:20 AM
parker

ManRam
06-17-2009, 10:20 AM
Steve Nash is still elite.

He shot 50% from the field, 45% from three. 16 points (11.5 shots), 10 assists.

Parker: 51% from the field, 29% from three. 22 points (18 shots), 7 assists.
Billups: 42% from the field, 40% from three. 18 points (12.5 shots), 6.4 assists.


I wont ever understand how someone would take Parker over Nash. Statistically Nash is still extremely elite. His percentages are insane...and he's still an amazing passer. I can understand why someone would take Billups because of his leadership skill...but Nash is still better than everyone on this list. I still think he's the second best PG in the game.

DrDEADalready
06-17-2009, 10:31 AM
I'll probably go with Billups

todu82
06-17-2009, 10:32 AM
Chauncey Billups

Padres Son
06-17-2009, 10:37 AM
I meant to vote for Billups, but when I went to click on the vote button, I accidentally clicked on Rodney Stuckey and voted for him.

atl_braves_fan
06-17-2009, 10:42 AM
keep dreaming Rondo fans.

ManRam
06-17-2009, 10:49 AM
nash is becoming seriousley under rated on these forums. i

Seriously. TP is not a better PG than Nash. Never has been, never will be. Nash is the most efficient PG in the game. Best shooting PG, second best passing PG. Underrated defensively. I don't understand the TP votes. Sure, he looks for his shot a lot more, and gets more point, but Nash is the much better leader and true PG.

JWO35
06-17-2009, 10:59 AM
:laugh:
I'm taking Stuckey cause I'm a homer! :D
But, 4 real Billups is a lock for 3

Joshtd1
06-17-2009, 10:59 AM
Seriously. TP is not a better PG than Nash. Never has been, never will be. Nash is the most efficient PG in the game. Best shooting PG, second best passing PG. Underrated defensively. I don't understand the TP votes. Sure, he looks for his shot a lot more, and gets more point, but Nash is the much better leader and true PG.

Nash isnt underrated defensively, because his defense sucks. He was better then Parker a couple years ago, but not anymore.

Parker's assist numbers are only so-so because of the role Pop has him in, in which he is supposed to look to score, instead of pass first. Plus the offense kinda runs through Duncan, so its harder to have great assist numbers because of that as well.

EastCoastBaller
06-17-2009, 11:09 AM
Tony Parker.

MPScribbles
06-17-2009, 11:11 AM
i honestly think it can be only either nash, tony parker or chauncy billups. the rest are just are a class behind.

Exactly. I voted for Nash because he has been the standard for what a point guard is supposed to be. Parker and Billups are right behind and others quite a bit behind.

This poll after next season:

1.Paul
2.Williams
3.Parker
4.Rose
5.Billups
6.Rondo
7.Nash
8.Harris
9.?
10.?

droalex
06-17-2009, 11:16 AM
Went with Billups.

kbaxter34
06-17-2009, 11:18 AM
Steve Nash is still elite.

He shot 50% from the field, 45% from three. 16 points (11.5 shots), 10 assists.

Parker: 51% from the field, 29% from three. 22 points (18 shots), 7 assists.
Billups: 42% from the field, 40% from three. 18 points (12.5 shots), 6.4 assists.


I wont ever understand how someone would take Parker over Nash. Statistically Nash is still extremely elite. His percentages are insane...and he's still an amazing passer. I can understand why someone would take Billups because of his leadership skill...but Nash is still better than everyone on this list. I still think he's the second best PG in the game.

Nash is definitely still better then Parker and Billups. I don't understand all this Tony Parker love. He had his best season ever and still avg 3 less assists, 15% lower on 3Ps and 15% lower on FTs then Nash. Other then scoring (Parker takes 6 more shots a game then Nash) Nash has better or equal numbers then Parker across the board. I would pick about 10 other PGs over Parker.

MiamiHeat
06-17-2009, 11:19 AM
Billups or Parker

jrice9
06-17-2009, 11:22 AM
Even as a Raptor fan I voted for Devin Harris. The guy is amazign at both ends

deke173
06-17-2009, 11:26 AM
What Derrick Rose did in his first year with no Tim Duncans, Carmelo Anthonys or Amare Stoudamires on his team is unbelievable. He is already drawing comparisons to Chris Paul and Deron Williams. He won Game 1 in the playoffs against the defending champs Boston Celtics basically on his own by breaking the record held by Kareem Abdul Jabbar for most points by a rookie in their first playoff game. He has Dwayne Wade talking about playing with him on talk radio in Chicago already for 2010. All in his first year. He is and is gonna be a Top 3 PG in this league.

kbaxter34
06-17-2009, 11:39 AM
Nash isnt underrated defensively, because his defense sucks. He was better then Parker a couple years ago, but not anymore.

Parker's assist numbers are only so-so because of the role Pop has him in, in which he is supposed to look to score, instead of pass first. Plus the offense kinda runs through Duncan, so its harder to have great assist numbers because of that as well.

So what your saying is he's a SG

Not sure what your point was bring up Nash's defense. Parker is equally as bad

FOBolous
06-17-2009, 11:55 AM
Gotta go with Chauncey Billups on this one. I mean...Tony Parker is great but I attribute the success of the Spurs more the Tim Duncan than Tony Parker. Billups, on the other hand, was the heart and soul of a championship team ,and he single handily turned around another team from a team that missed the playoffs to a team that reached the conference finals the very next year. I can't see the Detroit team winning a championship if you replace Billups with Parker nor can I see Denver duplicating their success this year with Parker instead of Billups.

macc
06-17-2009, 12:06 PM
Steve Nash is still elite.

He shot 50% from the field, 45% from three. 16 points (11.5 shots), 10 assists.

Parker: 51% from the field, 29% from three. 22 points (18 shots), 7 assists.
Billups: 42% from the field, 40% from three. 18 points (12.5 shots), 6.4 assists.


I wont ever understand how someone would take Parker over Nash. Statistically Nash is still extremely elite. His percentages are insane...and he's still an amazing passer. I can understand why someone would take Billups because of his leadership skill...but Nash is still better than everyone on this list. I still think he's the second best PG in the game.


You're saying Nash but using Billups statistics? Error?

Somtimes you can't base everything on stats. Nash has lost a couple steps. You can't give it to Nash and say "score the ball" Parker on the other hand can stop and pop and he can split defenses at will. When Ginobli was out Parker was carrying his team. In the playoffs he avgs 28.6 ppg w/ 6.8 assists. In the regular season he avg 22/6.9 Nash avg 15.7/9.7. Nash couldn't even get his team into the playoffs and they have the best starting 5 on paper. When you look at the Spurs team on paper they really don't look that tough, esp with an aging Duncan. Parker is leading his team in scoring and assists, he's clearly stepped up to be the man in San Antonio, Nash can't say he's the best player on his team. Plus Parker has the rings to back it up, Nash has 0 rings.

Once upon a time Nash was the best PG in the league, but when you're 34-35 yrs old you just lose alot of explosiveness as he has.

I guess i'm more old school because I put Parker above Paul and Williams, mainly because hes great and has championships. I guess Championships are overrated these days.

Sly Guy
06-17-2009, 12:25 PM
I voted homer just because he told me not to.

Joshtd1
06-17-2009, 12:26 PM
So what your saying is he's a SG

Not sure what your point was bring up Nash's defense. Parker is equally as bad

What Im saying is, that with the lack of scoring on the Spurs, Pop wants TP to be a scoring PG more then a pass first PG. He is great in the pick and roll, and getting into the lane...but instead passing it out like a Billups or Nash, he looks to score first with his great finishing ability.

If Pop wanted him to take a passing first role, he could easily average 9-10 assists a game, but his scoring would drop a bit..which is what the Spurs don't need.

Oh, and no Parker is not equally as bad on defense as Nash is.

kbaxter34
06-17-2009, 12:26 PM
You're saying Nash but using Billups statistics? Error?

Somtimes you can't base everything on stats. Nash has lost a couple steps. You can't give it to Nash and say "score the ball" Parker on the other hand can stop and pop and he can split defenses at will. When Ginobli was out Parker was carrying his team. In the playoffs he avgs 28.6 ppg w/ 6.8 assists. In the regular season he avg 22/6.9 Nash avg 15.7/9.7. Nash couldn't even get his team into the playoffs and they have the best starting 5 on paper. When you look at the Spurs team on paper they really don't look that tough, esp with an aging Duncan. Parker is leading his team in scoring and assists, he's clearly stepped up to be the man in San Antonio, Nash can't say he's the best player on his team. Plus Parker has the rings to back it up, Nash has 0 rings.

Once upon a time Nash was the best PG in the league, but when you're 34-35 yrs old you just lose alot of explosiveness as he has.

I guess i'm more old school because I put Parker above Paul and Williams, mainly because hes great and has championships. I guess Championships are overrated these days.

Championships are overrated when you talk about individual players. It takes a team to win championships. Duncan was the reason Parker has rings not the other way around.

raptors_fanatic
06-17-2009, 12:28 PM
im not ebing a homer.....im a raps fan and i chose CHAUNCEY...srry no parker for me, i think spurs are straight up boring, plus parker isnt that great 2 me

Joshtd1
06-17-2009, 12:30 PM
What does the Spurs being boring have to do with Parker's ability

Ray_R
06-17-2009, 12:45 PM
BILLUPS after next season Derrick Rose

kbaxter34
06-17-2009, 12:45 PM
What Im saying is, that with the lack of scoring on the Spurs, Pop wants TP to be a scoring PG more then a pass first PG. He is great in the pick and roll, and getting into the lane...but instead passing it out like a Billups or Nash, he looks to score first with his great finishing ability.

If Pop wanted him to take a passing first role, he could easily average 9-10 assists a game, but his scoring would drop a bit..which is what the Spurs don't need.

Oh, and no Parker is not equally as bad on defense as Nash is.

How do you know that. He has never accomplished such a feat. Thats like saying Nash could avg 22+ points if he took as many shots as Parker. It's pure speculation. What I do know is that Nash has avg 11 assists a game over the last 5 years and Parker is around 6 assists a game. The fundamental responsibilities of a point guard are to handle and distribute the ball to teammates and to be the team leader on the floor. IMO Nash does a better job of being a PG then Parker.

macc
06-17-2009, 12:59 PM
Championships are overrated when you talk about individual players. It takes a team to win championships. Duncan was the reason Parker has rings not the other way around.



I agree but Duncan wouldn't have won a championship w/o Parker either. It takes a solid PG to win a championship. Perfect example, look at Boston when Rondo went down. Not sure if you watch Boston games but there offense was terrible, there was no flow to it at all. I'm a Magic fan and when Nelson went down our offense was terrible until we got Alston to fill that spot. We still had Lewis, Howard and Turk to score but if you don't have that player that can feed you the ball in your fav spots you're not the same team.

But I'm gonna have to disagree with you, championships for an individual player aren't overrated. Isn't that what we base the great players on? Championships? I see people debate players and championships all the time. We can't pick and choose when championships matter to an individual player or not. Parker was the floor general on his team when they won, simple as that.

Joshtd1
06-17-2009, 01:03 PM
How do you know that. He has never accomplished such a feat. Thats like saying Nash could avg 22+ points if he took as many shots as Parker. It's pure speculation. What I do know is that Nash has avg 11 assists a game over the last 5 years and Parker is around 6 assists a game. The fundamental responsibilities of a point guard are to handle and distribute the ball to teammates and to be the team leader on the floor. IMO Nash does a better job of being a PG then Parker.

I have no problem with your opinion of Nash being better. I just think you are looking at stats too much. Both players play in different systems, and the coaches both have different roles for each player.

In Phoenix, Nash is meant to be the faciliator and get everyone involved. I remember people always saying the best way to beat Phoenix was to make Nash a scorer, instead of him getting 15-16 assists per game.

In SA, Parker is meant to carry the scoring load because of how the Spurs don't have a whole lot of offense. If Pop wanted him to pass more off a pick and roll, instead of taking the wide open shot, or passing once he got into the lane it would hurt the Spurs more then help.

Not taking anything away from Nash, I just think right now at this point their careers, TP is the better player.

dolfan720
06-17-2009, 01:05 PM
billups, look what he did in denver

macc
06-17-2009, 01:07 PM
How do you know that. He has never accomplished such a feat. Thats like saying Nash could avg 22+ points if he took as many shots as Parker. It's pure speculation. What I do know is that Nash has avg 11 assists a game over the last 5 years and Parker is around 6 assists a game. The fundamental responsibilities of a point guard are to handle and distribute the ball to teammates and to be the team leader on the floor. IMO Nash does a better job of being a PG then Parker.



Nash avg 9.7 assists this last year. The debate is the 3rd best pg "this year" not over the past 5. Parker avg's 7 assists per game but 7 more points per game then Nash.

You can't give a "fundamental responsibiliy" for a pg because it's different from team to team. Parker doesn't have all the scorers Nash has on his team so he has to score more to carry the load. Since he's a better scorer than Nash he can do that. Look at Nash's team, he has 3-4 options that are better scoring options then himself so ofcourse he's gonna be a pass first pg and he's great at it. Bottom line is right now, Nash is what 34-35 yrs old. He has lost a few steps and isn't as explosive as he once was. The younger Nash was better than Parker of today but the Nash of today isn't. Parker is only gonna get better.

City of Angels
06-17-2009, 01:13 PM
billubs no boubt

kbaxter34
06-17-2009, 01:18 PM
I agree but Duncan wouldn't have won a championship w/o Parker either. It takes a solid PG to win a championship. Perfect example, look at Boston when Rondo went down. Not sure if you watch Boston games but there offense was terrible, there was no flow to it at all. I'm a Magic fan and when Nelson went down our offense was terrible until we got Alston to fill that spot. We still had Lewis, Howard and Turk to score but if you don't have that player that can feed you the ball in your fav spots you're not the same team.

But I'm gonna have to disagree with you, championships for an individual player aren't overrated. Isn't that what we base the great players on? Championships? I see people debate players and championships all the time. We can't pick and choose when championships matter to an individual player or not. Parker was the floor general on his team when they won, simple as that.

You can swap Parker with out 10 other PGs and Duncan would of still got his championships.

Some people may, I don't. There are many great players that never won championships Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Ewing, Elgin Baylor, even the logo himself only has 1 and as dominating as Wilt was he only won 2

kbaxter34
06-17-2009, 01:25 PM
Nash avg 9.7 assists this last year. The debate is the 3rd best pg "this year" not over the past 5. Parker avg's 7 assists per game but 7 more points per game then Nash.

You can't give a "fundamental responsibiliy" for a pg because it's different from team to team. Parker doesn't have all the scorers Nash has on his team so he has to score more to carry the load. Since he's a better scorer than Nash he can do that. Look at Nash's team, he has 3-4 options that are better scoring options then himself so ofcourse he's gonna be a pass first pg and he's great at it. Bottom line is right now, Nash is what 34-35 yrs old. He has lost a few steps and isn't as explosive as he once was. The younger Nash was better than Parker of today but the Nash of today isn't. Parker is only gonna get better.

Parker avg 7 more points a game because he took 7 more shots a game.

You are right, it is different from team to team. Nash is more of a pure PG and Parker plays like a SG. Since this is a discusion about the point guard position Nash gets the nod. If you want to discuss scoring guards that also handle the ball then you have to bring in Lebron and Kobe into the picture.

macc
06-17-2009, 01:33 PM
Parker avg 7 more points a game because he took 7 more shots a game.

You are right, it is different from team to team. Nash is more of a pure PG and Parker plays like a SG. Since this is a discusion about the point guard position Nash gets the nod. If you want to discuss scoring guards that also handle the ball then you have to bring in Lebron and Kobe into the picture.



SG? A pg's primary role can be to run the offense and score. You agree with me that a pg's role is different from team to team but then go and say that since Parker scores that he's more like a SG? If you have been watching the NBA in the last 10 yrs then you would have noticed that there is no "pure" positions anymore. You have pf's who play peremeter, you have Sg's who post up. You have players like Turk who have played spots 1-4 on a regular basis. So how can you base an argument on the def of a "pure" player position when in reality 90% of basketball players are hybrids. Are you saying players can't be considered the best at their position if they play more then one? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

In any case we'll just agree to disagree, and considering that Parker has more than twice as many votes, it just shows more people agree with me than you. Savy

Mile High Champ
06-17-2009, 01:34 PM
Hmm... I really thought nash would do better.. Parker and Billups however in a tight race for the number 3 spot.

mikantsass
06-17-2009, 01:39 PM
Definately Billups.... Offense Defense and Leadership

RadiantShot
06-17-2009, 01:41 PM
Chaunc

Silent
06-17-2009, 01:55 PM
If u dont vote billups u all being homers also why is cp3 number 1 good pg but number 1 he had a bad year deron should get #1????

jc4life
06-17-2009, 02:23 PM
Devin Harris

superkegger
06-17-2009, 02:35 PM
Billups for me, thought he should have been #2

pebloemer
06-17-2009, 02:41 PM
If u dont vote billups u all being homers also why is cp3 number 1 good pg but number 1 he had a bad year deron should get #1????

Deron didn't even make 1st, 2nd or 3rd all NBA teams this year. Are the people that vote for that homers too?

I happen to like Billups better than Parker, but I chose Parker based on how well he carried an an injured Spurs team in such a difficult conference. Billups also had great success and showed great leadership on a new team, but it was really a toss up for me between those names. Because I chose Parker, does that mean I am a homer?

J_M_B
06-17-2009, 02:44 PM
Billups

J_M_B
06-17-2009, 02:45 PM
1. Paul
2. Williams
3. Billups
4. Parker
5. Nash

NYtilIdie
06-17-2009, 02:55 PM
Chuancey really fell down the ladder after failing to carry his team when they needed him in this years WCF.

So Tony Parker

superkegger
06-17-2009, 03:24 PM
How does Rodney Stuckey have 2 votes?

J_M_B
06-17-2009, 03:44 PM
How does Rodney Stuckey have 2 votes?

People voted for him???:confused:

Kakaroach
06-17-2009, 03:55 PM
Tony Parker.

JWO35
06-17-2009, 03:58 PM
How does Rodney Stuckey have 2 votes?

Cause he owns!!! :laugh:

sep11ie
06-17-2009, 04:20 PM
Big shot Billups

kbaxter34
06-17-2009, 06:07 PM
SG? A pg's primary role can be to run the offense and score. You agree with me that a pg's role is different from team to team but then go and say that since Parker scores that he's more like a SG? If you have been watching the NBA in the last 10 yrs then you would have noticed that there is no "pure" positions anymore. You have pf's who play peremeter, you have Sg's who post up. You have players like Turk who have played spots 1-4 on a regular basis. So how can you base an argument on the def of a "pure" player position when in reality 90% of basketball players are hybrids. Are you saying players can't be considered the best at their position if they play more then one? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

In any case we'll just agree to disagree, and considering that Parker has more than twice as many votes, it just shows more people agree with me than you. Savy

What I am saying is that I want a PG to think pass first, not shoot first. Its that simple. I understand that Parker has to score more because the scoring options on the Spurs are limited, but to me scoring dosn't make you a good point guard. Controlling game tempo, running the offense, being a floor leader and distributing the ball is what I want from a PG. IMO Nash is better then Parker at all of these.

So yes we will agree to disagree and the popular choice is not always the right choice. The fact that Stuckey has 2 votes should tell you that some of these votes are bias.

Duncan = Donkey
06-17-2009, 10:03 PM
You're saying Nash but using Billups statistics? Error?

Somtimes you can't base everything on stats. Nash has lost a couple steps. You can't give it to Nash and say "score the ball" Parker on the other hand can stop and pop and he can split defenses at will. When Ginobli was out Parker was carrying his team. In the playoffs he avgs 28.6 ppg w/ 6.8 assists. In the regular season he avg 22/6.9 Nash avg 15.7/9.7. Nash couldn't even get his team into the playoffs and they have the best starting 5 on paper. When you look at the Spurs team on paper they really don't look that tough, esp with an aging Duncan. Parker is leading his team in scoring and assists, he's clearly stepped up to be the man in San Antonio, Nash can't say he's the best player on his team. Plus Parker has the rings to back it up, Nash has 0 rings.

Once upon a time Nash was the best PG in the league, but when you're 34-35 yrs old you just lose alot of explosiveness as he has.

I guess i'm more old school because I put Parker above Paul and Williams, mainly because hes great and has championships. I guess Championships are overrated these days.

is that a joke??? coz thats a ridliclious comment.
nash can score anyway he wants to. if he wanted to he could score 20 a game easily.

anyway, i disagree that nash has "lost a step".
when watching him its obvious he hasnt, his stats may show he has, but that was becasue he was in terry porter's system. Porter made him just dump the ball into shaq and the offense was run through shaq.

nash went from dominating the ball 90% (like cp3, deron) to just bringin it down and dumpin it into shaq.

then gentry took over and gave the reigns back to nash, everything went back to normal, suns were playing better (then amare got injured), and nash's numbers under gentry went back to his mvp's years.

nash's numbers would be similar to MVP years, if earlier in the season nash do0minating the ball on offense and not some 40 yr old shaq.

theuuord
06-17-2009, 11:17 PM
1. Paul
2. Williams
3. Billups
4. Parker
5. Nash

I like this list, but Nash and Harris are interchangeable imo.

Hawkeye15
06-17-2009, 11:28 PM
I would listed to an argument for Parker, but its Billups

Vinny642
06-18-2009, 12:05 AM
I went Parker, but it could've also been Billups. I picked Parker because of his success, epecially with three rings.

YankeeFan89
06-18-2009, 12:08 AM
bbBBBiiilups