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AWC713
06-16-2009, 06:23 PM
For the big names, except for Clemens, I find some humor in the fact that these roiders never won a ring.

Sosa (if the report is true)
A-Rod
Bonds
McGuire
Palmiero


any other big names?


another question..which homerun hitters are left who are clean?

So far I can only think of Frank Thomas, Griffey, and Bagwell.

ChiCubsFan
06-16-2009, 06:36 PM
For the big names, except for Clemens, I find some humor in the fact that these roiders never won a ring.

Sosa (if the report is true)
A-Rod
Bonds
McGuire
Palmiero


any other big names?


another question..which homerun hitters are left who are clean?

So far I can only think of Frank Thomas, Griffey, and Bagwell.

honestly i wouldn't be surprised if all those guys juiced too. I work at a gym and their are guys who are obvious (sosa, mcguire, bonds) and those who shock you (Clemens, ARod, Manny, Thomas? Bagwell?) so you just never know.

REGular
06-16-2009, 06:37 PM
For the big names, except for Clemens, I find some humor in the fact that these roiders never won a ring.

. . . Manny? Sheffield . . . Pettitte . . . Pudge . . . Magglio Ordonez . . .


And it's assumed by all my Astros fan friends that Bagwell abused steroids.

AWC713
06-16-2009, 06:40 PM
in no way would i be surprised if bagwell used riods, but as of now, theres no concrete evidence suggesting he did.

fans can say all they want, and i wont argue with them--because they very well could be right. but as of now, the fans have no evidence other than the fact that "the guy is big and he hit a lot of dingers".

AWC713
06-16-2009, 06:43 PM
. . . Manny? Sheffield . . . Pettitte . . . Pudge . . . Magglio Ordonez . . .

i know there are players who were on roids and won rings. i just found some humor in the fact that some of the bigger named guys didnt win them.

and yes, i think a-rod, bonds, mcgwire, and sosa are "bigger named guys" or "more popular" than guys like magglio ordonez.

IndiansFan337
06-16-2009, 07:46 PM
For the big names, except for Clemens, I find some humor in the fact that these roiders never won a ring.

Sosa (if the report is true)
A-Rod
Bonds
McGuire
Palmiero


any other big names?


another question..which homerun hitters are left who are clean?

So far I can only think of Frank Thomas, Griffey, and Bagwell.

I think everyone was on it. There were 104 tested positive in '03 WHEN THEY KNEW THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE TESTED. :speechless:

So imagine how many of the players were doing it in the previous few seasons, when they were not being tested at all.

I believe that 60-80% of MLB players were using PED's between 1998-2002.

Many potential steroid users won WS championships, ranging from studs (Manny Ramirez, Luis Gonzalez) to the relievers (Jeff Nelson) & backup position players. I believe that Pedro Martinez used steroids, his velocity dipped considerably after testing began. Same for Randy Johnson, unfortunately. Everyone knows about Clemens & Pettitte. I don't buy Pettitte's explanation of using it only a few times during his recovery from one injury.

Guys like Albert Belle, Juan Gonzalez, Pudge Rodriguez, Jason Kendall, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Miguel Tejada, Eric Chavez, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Bartolo Colon, Mark Mulder, Magglio Ordonez, Kevin Brown, Adrian Beltre, Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Nomar Garciaparra, Trot Nixon, Marty Cordova, Matt Williams, Mo Vaughn, Mike Piazza, Palmeiro, McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Brady Anderson, etc. are just a few guys that I believe took steroids or have already been proven to have done so.

I know everyone likes to think of Griffey as The Natural, but look at his body compared to his size when he debuted at age 19-20. He's much bigger. Possibly 40+ lbs? These guys exercise for a living. It is very hard to gain that much weight when you are exercising as much as these guys. I do think he is guilty of the same things as these other players.

With that being said, I don't think that I would eliminate guys from my HOF ballot because of this. I know people want to say they cheated & all of that stuff. Obviously, what they did was illegal. And it is/was bad fro their own body & health. But that was their choice. It was not against MLB's rules, at the time. So I don't think that it should affect the way that guys vote for them to be in the HOF.

cheerio
06-16-2009, 08:00 PM
Good ole Sosa, I thought the bat incident was bad enough, I guess it just keeps getting bigger

t327
06-16-2009, 08:05 PM
For the big names, except for Clemens, I find some humor in the fact that these roiders never won a ring.

Sosa (if the report is true)
A-Rod
Bonds
McGwire
Palmiero


any other big names?


another question..which homerun hitters are left who are clean?

So far I can only think of Frank Thomas, Griffey, and Bagwell.

The bash brothers Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire won a championship with the A's in the late 80's. Jose Canseco is the posterboy of steroid abusers for MLB.

darkfire423
06-16-2009, 08:09 PM
For the big names, except for Clemens, I find some humor in the fact that these roiders never won a ring.

Sosa (if the report is true)
A-Rod
Bonds
McGuire
Palmiero


Couple questions. How old are you? Did you watch baseball in 1989? Cuz Big Mac and Conseco both have rings from that year.

xabial
06-16-2009, 08:12 PM
Pujols shud be next..At this day and age everybody has a right to speculate so dont argue :)
Sucks if we is clean tho

degnor
06-16-2009, 10:03 PM
Something tells me the WS ring wasn't what they wanted. You use steroids for personnal achievements and money. Show me the guy who juiced up to help his teammates.

degnor
06-16-2009, 10:09 PM
Pujols shud be next..At this day and age everybody has a right to speculate so dont argue :)
Sucks if we is clean tho

Pujols is one of the most naturally talented players of all time. I remember reading about how they did a test, to measure muscle reflexes in response to visual stimuli, and Pujols' results were comparable to Babe Ruth. No one else has reached that level. I really wish I could remember where I read it...

I'm not giving Pujols a free pass, although I do believe that we will never get past the steroid era if we keep second-guessing every great player. My point is, steroids or not, and I'm for guessing not, Pujols is an incredibly unique talent. He will retire, I think, as one of the 5 greatest hitters of all time.

AntiG
06-16-2009, 11:43 PM
Pujols is one of the most naturally talented players of all time.

So were Bonds and A-Rod. Steroids don't make a player good, they only enhance their natural talents.

degnor
06-16-2009, 11:52 PM
So were Bonds and A-Rod. Steroids don't make a player good, they only enhance their natural talents.

Pujols is beyond them, IMO. Hitting-wise, we are watching the closest thing to Babe Ruth. A-Rod could have been using since he was 18, so who knows about him.

t327
06-17-2009, 03:52 AM
Who knows about Albert? 102 other names on that list.

MaHaRaJaH
06-17-2009, 09:48 AM
I think everyone was on it. There were 104 tested positive in '03 WHEN THEY KNEW THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE TESTED. :speechless:

I believe that Pedro Martinez used steroids, his velocity dipped considerably after testing began. Same for Randy Johnson, unfortunately.

I know everyone likes to think of Griffey as The Natural, but look at his body compared to his size when he debuted at age 19-20. He's much bigger. Possibly 40+ lbs? These guys exercise for a living. It is very hard to gain that much weight when you are exercising as much as these guys. I do think he is guilty of the same things as these other players.

With that being said, I don't think that I would eliminate guys from my HOF ballot because of this. I know people want to say they cheated & all of that stuff. Obviously, what they did was illegal. And it is/was bad fro their own body & health. But that was their choice. It was not against MLB's rules, at the time. So I don't think that it should affect the way that guys vote for them to be in the HOF.
Agree with the first point. However you can't correlate because of velocity dropping. Same goes for Jr, he debuted at age 19-20-- still developing in those ages. You're telling me you still look the exact same when you were 20 years old:eyebrow: Gaining weight usually is part of your exercise plan anyhow. You can't assume a person has taken steroids unless it's proven so. If their name is on the list, their name is on the list, I doubt these names were pulled out of a hat. I very much doubt they will deny anyone the HOF.

MaHaRaJaH
06-17-2009, 09:49 AM
So were Bonds and A-Rod. Steroids don't make a player good, they only enhance their natural talents.

How?

miller74
06-17-2009, 10:16 AM
McGwire and Canseco won 2 rings

miller74
06-17-2009, 10:16 AM
For the big names, except for Clemens, I find some humor in the fact that these roiders never won a ring.

Sosa (if the report is true)
A-Rod
Bonds
McGuire
Palmiero


any other big names?


another question..which homerun hitters are left who are clean?

So far I can only think of Frank Thomas, Griffey, and Bagwell.[/B]


I doubt that

donnie23
06-17-2009, 10:41 AM
Pujols is beyond them, IMO. Hitting-wise, we are watching the closest thing to Babe Ruth. A-Rod could have been using since he was 18, so who knows about him.

Pujols could have been using since he was 18 too. I'm sorry to Albert and I know it's not fair but he will always have the cloud of this era over his numbers. All Power hitters of the last 20 years will.

AWC713
06-17-2009, 05:02 PM
Couple questions. How old are you? Did you watch baseball in 1989? Cuz Big Mac and Conseco both have rings from that year.

I'm 18. Sorry, I blanked on the 89 series.

I'm a pretty knowledgeable baseball fan, at least for my era. That series must've slipped my mind.

bringinwood
06-17-2009, 06:07 PM
Im sure thats what McGuire, Clemens, Canseco, Sosa, etc etc etc were all thinking when they were abusing steroids.... Now I can go win a championship ring in the major leagues just like I dreamed of when I was a young boy...

It wasn't, damn now i'm gonna go get that 5 yr 100MM contract next year... yeah boy...

ebtek1
06-17-2009, 06:10 PM
um. ken caminiti