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JordansBulls
06-15-2009, 11:44 AM
Magic Johnson said yesterday after the Lakers took home the title that Pau Gasol is the 3rd best big man in the league?

IIRC He said Gasol was behind Duncan and Garnett only.

Did anyone else hear that?

Brooke
06-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Yeah I remember him saying something like behind KG he was the best skilled big man

RaysFan
06-15-2009, 11:46 AM
He owns part of the Lakers. I don't have a problem with him saying that. You would expect more professionalism from someone like him, but he was pretty brutal to watch all playoffs.

J4KOP99
06-15-2009, 11:46 AM
I didn't hear that...I did hear Wilbon say that he is the best, 2nd best player on any team which I definitely agree with.

Gasol is a tremendous offensive talent. Great with both hands, can step back and shoot and he has great hands. I am not sure if I agree with him being the 3rd best big man in the league but you can definitely make a solid argument for him.

theuuord
06-15-2009, 11:46 AM
Magic Johnson said yesterday after the Lakers took home the title that Pau Gasol is the 3rd best big man in the league?

IIRC He said Gasol was behind Duncan and Garnett only.

Did anyone else hear that?

That's not what he said.

He said that he was the third most skilled big man in the league.

Which I'd agree with.

But insofar as basketball production I'd take Howard as well.

Tom81
06-15-2009, 11:49 AM
one for sure he is very skilled player ...europe school.
I think i agree with magic

S-Dot
06-15-2009, 11:50 AM
He had the best playoffs out of the three granted KG didnt play and Duncan probably wasnt healthy...and Magic said gasol wasnt the 2nd most skilled big man behind KG...i agree with the statement

x_notorious
06-15-2009, 11:51 AM
I think he meant 3rd best PF, big men would have to include centers like Dwight, Yao etc. But I think he's right in saying that. Gasol is a skilled big man with an array of offensive moves and he played great defense on Howard in the Finals where everyone said Howard would feast on the Laker front court.

Chronz
06-15-2009, 11:53 AM
There is a difference between having skills and being the better player. But skill wise I would put Pau above Duncan and KG.

sp1derm00
06-15-2009, 11:55 AM
Howard and Dirk are better as far as Bigs go... Dirk was a BEAST this postseason.

Oh, I forgot Yao... Yao is better also.

Gasol is 6th.

AllTheWay
06-15-2009, 11:56 AM
Pau is the most skilled Big in the league, but he still is not as good as Duncan or KG...

Tom81
06-15-2009, 11:58 AM
behind Duncan,TD is the most skilled Big in the league,

ManRam
06-15-2009, 12:03 PM
"Skilled" big man is a lot different than saying he's the third best big man period.

No one will deny his skill...but overall, he's not better than Dwight. It's a lot closer than most think, but he isn't better overall than Dwight. Offensively, yes. Everything else, no.

azkarraga
06-15-2009, 12:04 PM
he's gone from being soft (las year it's all you could hear about him) to being one of the best skilled big man in the league...

congrats pau!

The Intimidator
06-15-2009, 12:05 PM
I'm not sure he's at #3, but he's definitely one of the best. I'd say #5. One thing is certain: it was hard to watch Magic Johnson this postseason. He had a hard time keeping his Laker bias to himself. Hey, he has every right to be biased, don't get me wrong, but when you're on National TV, you need to put that aside and be objective.

theuuord
06-15-2009, 12:18 PM
I'm not sure he's at #3, but he's definitely one of the best. I'd say #5. One thing is certain: it was hard to watch Magic Johnson this postseason. He had a hard time keeping his Laker bias to himself. Hey, he has every right to be biased, don't get me wrong, but when you're on National TV, you need to put that aside and be objective.

lol. It's better than Bill Walton basically cussing out his son every time he made a mistake when Bill covered Lakers games.

I thought Magic did an okay job considering that he's, you know, the face of the Lakers.

GHOSTSNIPER
06-15-2009, 12:22 PM
I think after this series we can all put the Gasol v. Howard comparison to bed.Gasol was clearly the better of the two.

Kakaroach
06-15-2009, 12:28 PM
Magic Johnson said yesterday after the Lakers took home the title that Pau Gasol is the 3rd best big man in the league?

IIRC He said Gasol was behind Duncan and Garnett only.

Did anyone else hear that? No, he said he was the third best PF in the league, if you count Duncan.

theuuord
06-15-2009, 12:28 PM
I think after this series we can all put the Gasol v. Howard comparison to bed.Gasol was clearly the better of the two.

Wow, this isn't what I expected.

I thought people would give all the credit to Kobe and completely forget about Gasol.

Seems like it's the opposite.


Gasol is great - I think he's a top 10 player in this league - but if LA had Howard instead of Gasol LA still wins in 5, maybe 4.

clehmun
06-15-2009, 12:30 PM
i think the title is very misleading. magic johnson said, pau gasol is the third SKILLED bigmen in the league, not best.

i think gasol has more skills than yao, howard, amare, bosh, etc. but he's not better than yao nor howard, and arguable with amare and bosh.

IDB Josh M
06-15-2009, 12:51 PM
To be fair, Gasol didn't play better than Howard, Howard had a monster statistics session this finals, while Gasol quietly had a few double doubles. That being said, Gasol sure did run circles around Howard a few times.

sp1derm00
06-15-2009, 12:55 PM
Howard wasn't held down because of Gasol's incredible defense, it was the help defense of the guards/forwards.

Everytime Dwight got a rebound, Kobe, Ariza, Odom would jump on him and try to poke it free.

Everytime Dwight got the ball, he would be blindsided by Fish, Kobe, Ariza, or Odom... if he put the ball on the floor, the Laker players SWARMED.

I have no delusions that Pau can hold Howard on single coverage.

LA_Raiders
06-15-2009, 12:56 PM
1. TD
2. KG? (He might be done)
3. Gasol
4. _Irk

Young2Kinsler
06-15-2009, 01:01 PM
Gasol better than Dirk, lmao

madiaz3
06-15-2009, 01:07 PM
Dirk is the most skilled and talented PF CURRENTLY. Pau isn't that far behind.

Jahari Kavi
06-15-2009, 01:23 PM
I didn't hear that...I did hear Wilbon say that he is the best, 2nd best player on any team which I definitely agree with.

Gasol is a tremendous offensive talent. Great with both hands, can step back and shoot and he has great hands. I am not sure if I agree with him being the 3rd best big man in the league but you can definitely make a solid argument for him.

I can't agree with either statement, especially Magic's. Duncan, Garnett, KG, Yao, Howard, Bosh, Amare, Dirk, and possibly Al Jefferson > Gasol........he's close to being the best 2nd best player on a team...........let's not forget that Gasol couldn't even win one playoff game before he got to tinsletown.......

clehmun
06-15-2009, 01:42 PM
Dirk is the most skilled and talented PF CURRENTLY. Pau isn't that far behind.

i guess you can make an argument that dirk is more skilled than gasol. but in terms of "bigmen" skills, gasol is just superior.

clehmun
06-15-2009, 01:46 PM
I can't agree with either statement, especially Magic's. Duncan, Garnett, KG, Yao, Howard, Bosh, Amare, Dirk, and possibly Al Jefferson > Gasol........he's close to being the best 2nd best player on a team...........let's not forget that Gasol couldn't even win one playoff game before he got to tinsletown.......

again, the title's misleading, magic did not say gasol's the 3rd best bigmen, he said he was the 3rd skilled. and i think he's right.

and in terms of offense, gasol is without a doubt the best 2nd best player on a team. overall, he's behind KG or pierce (whoever you put first). but since KG is out, gasol is the clear cut best 2nd best player on a team in the playoffs this year. can you think of anyone 2nd option that's better than gasol?

Jahari Kavi
06-15-2009, 01:47 PM
gasol is better on the blocks, but Dirk has lead a team to the finals and is a better rebounder and is a former MVP....I think both are "soft" in their own special ways...but yeah gasol is better on the blocks.

albertc86
06-15-2009, 01:49 PM
I think he meant 3rd best PF, big men would have to include centers like Dwight, Yao etc. But I think he's right in saying that. Gasol is a skilled big man with an array of offensive moves and he played great defense on Howard in the Finals where everyone said Howard would feast on the Laker front court.

That's exactly what he meant. The 3rd best PF.

Jahari Kavi
06-15-2009, 01:50 PM
again, the title's misleading, magic did not say gasol's the 3rd best bigmen, he said he was the 3rd skilled. and i think he's right.

and in terms of offense, gasol is without a doubt the best 2nd best player on a team. overall, he's behind KG or pierce (whoever you put first). but since KG is out, gasol is the clear cut best 2nd best player on a team in the playoffs this year. can you think of anyone 2nd option that's better than gasol?

I just believe Gasol has the luxury of taking some nights off and allowing Odom or Ariza to take over the "2nd best" player slot.......he allowed Chuck Hayes, Landry, and Scola to beat him around to the point where the lakers were on the brink of elimination..........it's debatable, but not clear cut..........

MagicBucsSox
06-15-2009, 01:53 PM
i guess he's better than amare and bosh and dwight.

yanksknicksgmen
06-15-2009, 01:55 PM
he was behing kg for most skilled

clehmun
06-15-2009, 01:55 PM
I just believe Gasol has the luxury of taking some nights off and allowing Odom or Ariza to take over the "2nd best" player slot.......he allowed Chuck Hayes, Landry, and Scola to beat him around to the point where the lakers were on the brink of elimination..........it's debatable, but not clear cut..........

i understand what you're saying, thats cool. so who else would you consider as the best 2nd best player in these playoffs?

TEXASTITAN
06-15-2009, 02:01 PM
Magic Johnson said yesterday after the Lakers took home the title that Pau Gasol is the 3rd best big man in the league?

IIRC He said Gasol was behind Duncan and Garnett only.

Did anyone else hear that?





Him owning the lakers and being an espn analyst is a slight conflict of interest he can't give an unbiased opinion to save his life. I personally don't think he belongs on the commentary panel because he's such a homer it's pathetic. I guess the likes of yao and howard are no match for the mighty pau gasol right lmfao. It's awful funny that he was shut down most of the houston series with bench players guarding him ''what a beast''. GTFO

madiaz3
06-15-2009, 02:01 PM
I just believe Gasol has the luxury of taking some nights off and allowing Odom or Ariza to take over the "2nd best" player slot.......he allowed Chuck Hayes, Landry, and Scola to beat him around to the point where the lakers were on the brink of elimination..........it's debatable, but not clear cut..........

That's why it was just skilled and not 3rd best. You can take nights off and still retain your skill, you just can't be the best if you do it.

clehmun
06-15-2009, 02:05 PM
i can't believe how many people don't read the posts in the thread before they make their own posts.

for the 25th time, magic was talking about SKILLS.
tell me with a straight face that dwight howard has more skills as a player than pau gasol!

magic was talking about ALL BIGMEN. NOT JUST PF. because simply, there is no CENTER in the nba who has more skills than duncan, garnett, and gasol.

mikantsass
06-15-2009, 02:12 PM
KG, Duncan, Yao, Howard, Amare, Dirk, Elton Brand, Bosh, Boozer, Jamison, Al Jefferson, Sheed.....

All better big men in my opinion.

clehmun
06-15-2009, 02:17 PM
KG, Duncan, Yao, Howard, Amare, Dirk, Elton Brand, Bosh, Boozer, Jamison, Al Jefferson, Sheed.....

All better big men in my opinion.

gona have to disagree with all the bold ones.

theuuord
06-15-2009, 02:25 PM
JordansBulls you should really edit the title of this thread. It's misleading.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-15-2009, 02:25 PM
Has he ever heard of Dirk Nowitzki?

clehmun
06-15-2009, 02:29 PM
Has he ever heard of Dirk Nowitzki?

it's arguable, dirk has better perimeter skills, gasol has better post skills.
i would also say gasol's defense is better than dirks.

but i'm not saying pau is the better player.

masalex1205
06-15-2009, 02:41 PM
Howard wasn't held down because of Gasol's incredible defense, it was the help defense of the guards/forwards.

Everytime Dwight got a rebound, Kobe, Ariza, Odom would jump on him and try to poke it free.

Everytime Dwight got the ball, he would be blindsided by Fish, Kobe, Ariza, or Odom... if he put the ball on the floor, the Laker players SWARMED.

I have no delusions that Pau can hold Howard on single coverage.


100% agree

lakers4sho
06-15-2009, 02:50 PM
I can't agree with either statement, especially Magic's. Duncan, Garnett, KG, Yao, Howard, Bosh, Amare, Dirk, and possibly Al Jefferson > Gasol........he's close to being the best 2nd best player on a team...........let's not forget that Gasol couldn't even win one playoff game before he got to tinsletown.......

Amare, Bosh, and Al Jefferson are not better than Gasol. Fact.

GspLAL
06-15-2009, 05:53 PM
He owns part of the Lakers. I don't have a problem with him saying that. You would expect more professionalism from someone like him, but he was pretty brutal to watch all playoffs.

What?? If anything he was against LA a lot of times, multiple times he picked other teams to win, he even picked Orlando to win game 5!

Raps08-09 Champ
06-15-2009, 05:59 PM
Magic is so biased to the Lakers though.

Everything he talks about is the Lakers.

You don't see guys like Reggie talking about Indiana like that.

i.got.the.nutz
06-15-2009, 07:50 PM
Magic is so biased to the Lakers though.

Everything he talks about is the Lakers.

You don't see guys like Reggie talking about Indiana like that.

I'm sure if Indiana was in the NBA Finals Reggie would talk about them too.

Kings Faithful
06-15-2009, 08:07 PM
Is this a joke? Including Centers I can name 10 big men I'd have on my team before Pau...

Young2Kinsler
06-15-2009, 08:12 PM
Al Jefferson is without a shadow of a doubt better than Gasol.

lakers4sho
06-15-2009, 08:38 PM
Is this a joke? Including Centers I can name 10 big men I'd have on my team before Pau...

Let's hear it.

lakers4sho
06-15-2009, 08:39 PM
Al Jefferson is without a shadow of a doubt better than Gasol.

No he is not. Fact.

x_notorious
06-15-2009, 08:44 PM
Al Jefferson is without a shadow of a doubt better than Gasol.

Pau Gasol has a better offensive skill set and Gasol is a much better defender than Jefferson who is lousy defensively.

Fire Girardi
06-15-2009, 09:00 PM
Magic Johnson said yesterday after the Lakers took home the title that Pau Gasol is the 3rd best big man in the league?

IIRC He said Gasol was behind Duncan and Garnett only.

Did anyone else hear that?

way to post a false statement, he said gasol passed garnett as bein the most talented big man in the game

CowboysKB24
06-15-2009, 09:09 PM
Magic Johnson said yesterday after the Lakers took home the title that Pau Gasol is the 3rd best big man in the league?

IIRC He said Gasol was behind Duncan and Garnett only.

Did anyone else hear that?

Gasol is great, but 3rd is pushing it. I don't agree with third but he does have a skill set, most big men don't have.

I think Dirk, Bosh, Amare are better IMO. I don't think he is top 5, he is top 10. Antwaan Jameson, Boozer, David West are very close to Gasol, but I think Gasol has the edge. West hasn't hit his prime, but last season he was very good with great potential. He had an off year this year. I think Magic just was all hyped up and slipped a little on that one. Gasol is very very good though.

CowboysKB24
06-15-2009, 09:11 PM
way to post a false statement, he said gasol passed garnett as bein the most talented big man in the game

No he didn't.

He said Duncan was the best no question. Then he said it is KG, but after that Duncan and KG he felt it was Gasol as the third best PF in the league.

Beno7500
06-15-2009, 09:15 PM
Amare is better

NYtilIdie
06-15-2009, 09:24 PM
Gasol's skilled, but I'd take a healthy Duncan and KG over him any day also I'd say he's fourth Yao's third so top 5 isn't bad

Edit he's fifth cause Dirk's got more range in his shot and is a 25 ppg guy so Dirk's fourth .

WhiteyBulger
06-15-2009, 09:26 PM
I wonder what KG, Amare, Dwight Howard, Yao Ming, Shaq, Chris Bosh, Al Jefferson, Tim Duncan, and Elton Brand think about that.

WhiteyBulger
06-15-2009, 09:29 PM
Pau Gasol has a better offensive skill set and Gasol is a much better defender than Jefferson who is lousy defensively.

Gasol is not a better offensive player than Al Jefferson is. Not even close. AJ the best post moves in the game today. He reminds me of Kevin McHale when he's down on the block. Gasol might be a better defender but not he's not even close to a better offensive player than Jefferson.

theuuord
06-15-2009, 10:43 PM
Gasol is not a better offensive player than Al Jefferson is. Not even close. AJ the best post moves in the game today. He reminds me of Kevin McHale when he's down on the block. Gasol might be a better defender but not he's not even close to a better offensive player than Jefferson.

If that's true, then why is Al Jefferson have a worse field goal percentage (and it isn't close) and a worse offensive rating (which is even further apart)?

Gasol is one of the most scarily efficient big men in basketball. He just makes shots.

lakers4sho
06-15-2009, 10:45 PM
If that's true, then why is Al Jefferson have a worse field goal percentage (and it isn't close) and a worse offensive rating (which is even further apart)?

Gasol is one of the most scarily efficient big men in basketball. He just makes shots.

Agreed. And he's avering almost 20PPG and shooting close to 60% against the supposed Defensive Player of the Year.

dbroncos78087
06-15-2009, 10:51 PM
No he is not. Fact.

Not a big NBA guy but i know that in the NFL forums you cant just declare fact and it is accepted. I dont know how the two compare but there should probably be stats in that argument if you declare fact.

WhiteyBulger
06-16-2009, 12:05 AM
If that's true, then why is Al Jefferson have a worse field goal percentage (and it isn't close) and a worse offensive rating (which is even further apart)?

Gasol is one of the most scarily efficient big men in basketball. He just makes shots.

Hmmm, could it be because Al Jefferson is taking all the shots on his team because his surrounding cast sucks? I think so. Al Jefferson already has a more advanced low post game than Gasol. Pau shoots a little better but Al Jeffersen is way better offensively. I'd say 70% of NBA coaches would rather have AJ on their team than Gasol.

juggla53
06-16-2009, 12:29 AM
Id put him fourth in terms of PF behind TD, KG, and Dirk

BoltLakerPadre
06-16-2009, 12:42 AM
Magic is entitled to his own opinion. While I might not put Gasol at 3, I also wouldn't put Garnett at 2. He's done.

BUCSFORLIFE123
06-16-2009, 12:54 AM
There is a difference between having skills and being the better player. But skill wise I would put Pau above Duncan and KG.

lol thats where youre wrong. duncan has better post moves and better D and does have a jump shot. he has everythig gasol has .
but i do have to say gasol iand duncan imo have the best offensive post moves today, along with al jeff

BUCSFORLIFE123
06-16-2009, 12:57 AM
If that's true, then why is Al Jefferson have a worse field goal percentage (and it isn't close) and a worse offensive rating (which is even further apart)?

Gasol is one of the most scarily efficient big men in basketball. He just makes shots.

LOL for crying out loud, gasol has bryant to take players off of him, jeff is a one man wrecking crew of course his fg % is gunna be lower cuz he takes more shot. gasol % is high b/c of kobe, look what he did in memphis and compare stats to jeff . jus look at kg when he was in minn and boston now. stats drop but increase in fg %

theuuord
06-16-2009, 01:14 AM
LOL for crying out loud, gasol has bryant to take players off of him, jeff is a one man wrecking crew of course his fg % is gunna be lower cuz he takes more shot. gasol % is high b/c of kobe, look what he did in memphis and compare stats to jeff . jus look at kg when he was in minn and boston now. stats drop but increase in fg %

In his last year in Memphis, his field goal percentage was 40 points higher than Jefferson's was this year. Of course Kobe has a positive impact on Gasol's numbers but last I checked he's still taking his own shots.

Jefferson is a great big man and I'd love to have him on the Nets. But Gasol is definitely above him in terms of efficiency and production.

jgonboricua
06-16-2009, 01:22 AM
Tim duncan
dwight
KG
Dirk
Bosh
Amare
Gasol

jgonboricua
06-16-2009, 01:23 AM
i dont even know where to put yao in that picture...

sixer04fan
06-16-2009, 01:40 AM
3rd best skilled big man behind Duncan and KG would be accurate. He could be behind Dirk too though.

3rd best big man overall would be inaccurate. In no particular order the best big men off the top of my head that could be considered better than Gasol (I may be forgetting some guys):

-Duncan
-KG
-Bosh
-Dwight
-Yao
-Dirk
-Boozer
-Possibly Amare
-Possibly Shaq

lakers4sho
06-16-2009, 01:48 AM
Not a big NBA guy but i know that in the NFL forums you cant just declare fact and it is accepted. I dont know how the two compare but there should probably be stats in that argument if you declare fact.

theuuord addressed the issue

BUCSFORLIFE123
06-16-2009, 01:52 AM
In his last year in Memphis, his field goal percentage was 40 points higher than Jefferson's was this year. Of course Kobe has a positive impact on Gasol's numbers but last I checked he's still taking his own shots.

Jefferson is a great big man and I'd love to have him on the Nets. But Gasol is definitely above him in terms of efficiency and production.

if u say production look at gasols best season and compare that to jefferson, and u will see jefferson is more productive.

cwilson21
06-16-2009, 02:00 AM
In his last year in Memphis, his field goal percentage was 40 points higher than Jefferson's was this year. Of course Kobe has a positive impact on Gasol's numbers but last I checked he's still taking his own shots.

Jefferson is a great big man and I'd love to have him on the Nets. But Gasol is definitely above him in terms of efficiency and production.

Gasol shot 50% his last year with Memphis and Jefferson shot 49.7% this year. Not a big diff.

theuuord
06-16-2009, 02:33 AM
Gasol shot 50% his last year with Memphis and Jefferson shot 49.7% this year. Not a big diff.

Um,

no?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MEM/2007.html

theuuord
06-16-2009, 02:39 AM
if u say production look at gasols best season and compare that to jefferson, and u will see jefferson is more productive.

Okay, sure.

Gasol's best season was this past one.

18.9 points per game on 56.7% shooting, .617 TS%, 9.6 rebounds per game, 3.5 assists per game, 1 block per game, 126 offensive rating, 22.2 PER.

Conversely, Jefferson this season:

23.1 points per game on 49.7% shooting, .532 TS%, 11 rebounds per game, 1.6 assists per game, 1.7 blocks per game, 109 offensive rating, 23.1 PER.


Jefferson got more rebounds and more points, Gasol scored way more efficiently and was much better at creating for teammates. The 126 to 109 disparity in offensive rating should tell it all.

jrok217
06-16-2009, 02:41 AM
I'm not sure he's at #3, but he's definitely one of the best. I'd say #5. One thing is certain: it was hard to watch Magic Johnson this postseason. He had a hard time keeping his Laker bias to himself. Hey, he has every right to be biased, don't get me wrong, but when you're on National TV, you need to put that aside and be objective.

:eyebrow: i think you were watching the NHL playoffs, because Magic was very objective. He actually called out players like Gasol for being soft. He also chose the Nuggets a few times because of LA's lack of aggression. He often criticized the Lakers early in the postseason, in particular against the Rockets. On the other hand, Charles Barkley is hardly ever objective when it comes to the Lakers. He's often taking shots at Kobe, and always picks against the Lakers.

Pau Gasol is the 3rd best skilled 4/PF. His impact on the Lakers was huge and now theyre the champs.

MickeyMgl
06-16-2009, 03:13 AM
Magic Johnson said yesterday after the Lakers took home the title that Pau Gasol is the 3rd best big man in the league?

IIRC He said Gasol was behind Duncan and Garnett only.

Did anyone else hear that?

He's no longer behind Garnett, but there are probably a couple of other big men that ought to fit in there ahead of him.

TEJ
06-16-2009, 03:33 AM
Not sure how I feel about this one but I could see those comments being true in terms of the overall package he brings to a team.