PDA

View Full Version : 2009 Braves Trade Ideas



Pages : [1] 2 3

HCo HERO
06-14-2009, 11:53 PM
2009 has proven to be another disappointing year for the Braves. Again the two main problems are injuries and inconsistency. So it is time to decide what players have a future w/ the Braves and which can we benefit the most in trade. Undoubtedly dream trades will surface and some fun bashing will occur.

HCo HERO
06-15-2009, 12:00 AM
The first person we need to make a decision on is Javier Vasquez. His trade value will never be higher, and teams like the Yankees/Dodgers/Rangers/Tigers/Cardinals/Cubs/Brewers will all be looking to upgrade their rotation. But he is also putting up career numbers. We're getting Ace production for below Ace market value. He most likely will be a Type A free agent after next year. So does he hold more value in a trade or staying put and possibly resigning.

AustinTheGreat
06-15-2009, 12:38 PM
Hudson's option would probably be less than what Vazquez will get on the market dont u think??? What is hudson's option for?

rtgthree
06-15-2009, 12:42 PM
Hudson's option would probably be less than what Vazquez will get on the market dont u think??? What is hudson's option for?

Hudson's option is for $12 million, but Vazquez is signed for 2010, at a cost of $11.5 million.

atl_braves_fan
06-15-2009, 02:51 PM
If they are not going to add at least one more bat to play right field, the trade deadline idea should be to trade Gonzo, Sori, and maybe Vasquez to stockpile talent to trade in the off-season or use next season.

This team is not that far away, and a full rebuilding is not in order, but they need two new outfielders next year. One of them may be Schafer, but I would not count on Heyward being ready yet.

atl_braves_fan
06-15-2009, 02:52 PM
By the way, reports are that Acta is going to be fired imminently. Maybe they should check in on Willingham now.

Jon93405
06-15-2009, 02:58 PM
The Braves need to either be sellers or buyers at the deadline... but they're probably just gonna continue into mediocrity...

Coach100
06-15-2009, 03:43 PM
I think Vazquez and Gonzo will be dealt if the Braves make moves. Gonzo can get at least on decent prospect in return. Javy can get a few good prospects, maybe even a top-tier one or a big bat for LF/RF. Either way it would help.

Those are the 2 players I think are most likely to be dealt.

CrippledRam
06-15-2009, 05:03 PM
I'd vote Soriano dealt over Gonzo just because Gonzo has a chance to net us a pick.

NBA_Starter
06-15-2009, 05:09 PM
There is absolutely no way I would trade Javy unless it is a deal that just blows you off of your feet!

eaglesalltheway
06-15-2009, 05:26 PM
we wont make any trades

BobbyCox4Life
06-15-2009, 05:27 PM
Possible Trades could involve
javy
kk
kelly
jeff
soriano
gonzalez
kotch
GA
Diaz

CrippledRam
06-15-2009, 06:08 PM
Diaz has no value and KK won't be moved. GA would be DFA before being traded, he looks about done.

Monkeyfumes
06-15-2009, 06:56 PM
anybody remember what happens when you can't close down the 8 and 9 inn.? that really sucks to suggest that we trade Gonzalez or Soriano, they're pitching great and we don't need to trade weaknesses. I say trade Kotchman or G Anderson and if Kelly J or Escobar don't start running more trade them. Also... as much as i love T.P , we might need to change hitting coaches

CrippledRam
06-15-2009, 07:16 PM
If we are sellers it makes no sense to keep them both. The are FA at the end of the year.

atl_braves_fan
06-15-2009, 07:35 PM
^^ if we are sellers it makes no sense to keep either (unless we are going to resign the one we keep).

NBA_Starter
06-15-2009, 07:42 PM
If we are sellers it makes no sense to keep them both. The are FA at the end of the year.

Good point!

NBA_Starter
06-15-2009, 07:48 PM
I like Brian Roberts again!

CrippledRam
06-15-2009, 08:36 PM
^^ if we are sellers it makes no sense to keep either (unless we are going to resign the one we keep).

Gonzo should net us a draft pick

HCo HERO
06-16-2009, 12:30 AM
What about a deal with the angels. Their only 2 1/2 back in their division. Javier Vasquez for a package starting with Brandon Wood. He definitly is not getting a fair shot in LA. This would also allow us to field offers for KJ or Yunel. I see Wood being a good replacment for chipper in the future.

rtgthree
06-16-2009, 12:36 AM
What about a deal with the angels. Their only 2 1/2 back in their division. Javier Vasquez for a package starting with Brandon Wood. He definitly is not getting a fair shot in LA. This would also allow us to field offers for KJ or Yunel. I see Wood being a good replacment for chipper in the future.

Problem is the Angels have little depth beyond Wood. I would need much more than Wood to make me move Vazquez at the deadline. Better to wait until the winter unless we get truly blown away, and I don't think the Angels have the expendable talent to blow us away.

atl_braves_fan
06-16-2009, 10:35 AM
Gonzo should net us a draft pick

And a trade should net us a prospect or two and save us $3MM+ ... seems pretty even to me.

CrippledRam
06-16-2009, 11:01 AM
Matters how good the spec is

atl_braves_fan
06-16-2009, 11:32 AM
Matters how good the spec is

Well, obviously you don't just give him away. Gonzo could probably net a pretty decent prospect though because there are a lot of teams that need bullpen help for the pennant race.

Also, to get a compensatory draft pick, the Braves would have to offer arbitration. There is a risk that he would accept and then they would be stuck giving him a raise from his current $3.6MM salary. I am not sure that the front office would want to take the risk that they would have to pay a sometimes undependable closer somewhere in the neighborhood of $5MM next year.

Monkeyfumes
06-16-2009, 01:24 PM
We are one of those teams that'll need pitchers for the pennant race. we traded to get these guys here and now they're healthy and pitching good. I for one don't trust Moylan, Acosta, or Bennett coming in the 8th or 9th every game in september. Keep and sign both Gonzalez and Soriano. *** BTW...we did trade our future closer draft pick Joey Devine because we had these 2 guys

soobahk40050
06-16-2009, 01:57 PM
a total rebuilding may not be in order, but we do need what may look like a fire sale. keep our rotation intact - trade huddy and keep vasquez. 2010 = lowe, jj, kk, vasquez, hanson and medlen as our starters.

keep mccann and chipper, and mclouth. Plan for Freeman and Heyward and possibly schafer. evaluate what we can get for kotchman (now an area of stregnth with canizares) and determine if we can get more in a trade or in the draft when we lose him.

find a backup for chipper, a RF, LF, a real 2nd baseman.

decide what to do about escobar. the benching doesn't bode well for him. we could still get some great trade value in return.

and get some bullpen help.

it sounds like a lot, but we have a great core and they will be great come 2010 or 11.

threeb07
06-16-2009, 03:09 PM
We need to hold on to Kotch until Freedie is ready, canizares is going to put up a little more power than kotch but everything else will be even i would think, the big thing is canizares couldnt catch a cold, he missed some liners this weekend against the O's that Casey is going to pickup, he is just suited to be a DH one would think?

atl_braves_fan
06-16-2009, 03:21 PM
We are one of those teams that'll need pitchers for the pennant race. we traded to get these guys here and now they're healthy and pitching good. I for one don't trust Moylan, Acosta, or Bennett coming in the 8th or 9th every game in september. Keep and sign both Gonzalez and Soriano. *** BTW...we did trade our future closer draft pick Joey Devine because we had these 2 guys

I agree that we should keep them. My original post (to which someone responded and a conversation ensued) was that if Wren doesn't get at least one more bat, we aren't really in the pennant race and we should consider trading Sori and/or Gonzo.

MrJones
06-16-2009, 03:53 PM
Canizares, Frenchy, and B. Jones for Aaron Bates (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Aaron%20Bates&pos=LF&sid=t533&t=p_pbp&pid=488686) ??? (click on his name for stats)

rtgthree
06-16-2009, 04:05 PM
Canizares, Frenchy, and B. Jones for Aaron Bates (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Aaron%20Bates&pos=LF&sid=t533&t=p_pbp&pid=488686) ??? (click on his name for stats)

A package of organizational garbage isn't usually that attractive in trade.

MrJones
06-16-2009, 05:05 PM
A package of organizational garbage isn't usually that attractive in trade.

Everyone seems to be in love with Canizares as a DH, and people think Frenchy could turn it around in a new surrounding... B. Jones isn't quite garbage... a 4th OF'er... but I don't quite think garbage.

It's not like I'm suggesting we send Van Pope, Brian "I couldn't catch it if it was underhanded to me" Barton, and Todd "I was good in April" Redmond.

But, what kind of package do you think it would take ???

rtgthree
06-16-2009, 06:22 PM
Everyone seems to be in love with Canizares as a DH, and people think Frenchy could turn it around in a new surrounding... B. Jones isn't quite garbage... a 4th OF'er... but I don't quite think garbage.

It's not like I'm suggesting we send Van Pope, Brian "I couldn't catch it if it was underhanded to me" Barton, and Todd "I was good in April" Redmond.

But, what kind of package do you think it would take ???

First, who do you mean by "everyone" that's in love with Canizares as a DH? Most people look at him and see a 29-year-old rookie...not that impressive. My point is those are all guys who are on the fringe of a team's roster, and it's not like anybody just hast three open roster spots sitting there. It's one thing for a team to cut its 25th best player for a guy who will come in and be the team's tenth-best player, but to cut #25 for a new #25 doesn't make much sense. I doubt any team would clear three 40-man roster spots to take all three of those players in one deal.

HCo HERO
06-16-2009, 08:26 PM
I know everyone is probably tired of my 3 team trade ideas but here's my latest:

Braves get brandon wood and jermaine Dye

Angels get javier vasquez and jeff bennet

ChiSox get Chone Figgins

Javy's and Dye's contracts almost match
And this gives us freedom to field offers for both Yunel and KJ

Thoughts?

Spiderman 1nner
06-16-2009, 09:04 PM
I know everyone is probably tired of my 3 team trade ideas but here's my latest:

Braves get brandon wood and jermaine Dye

Angels get javier vasquez and jeff bennet

ChiSox get Chone Figgins

Javy's and Dye's contracts almost match
And this gives us freedom to field offers for both Yunel and KJ

Thoughts?

wouldd never happen, why wouldd tha Sox give upp that much for Figgins... I say trade Vasquez to tha Blue Jays for a package built around Rios, Wells, or Snyder. Any one wouldd helpp

A_Brave_Pack
06-16-2009, 09:17 PM
I really think it would be a huge mistake for the Braves to trade Vazquez. He is not a FA after this season, the Braves are bound to be better next year, and he has been one of the most (if not THE most) consistent starter for the Braves this year. I don't see why the Braves should trade Vazquez just to trade him. A 2010 rotation with Javy in it looks a whole lot better than a 2010 rotation without him in that rotation.

Furthermore, you think the Braves play this year has been frustrating already? Just imagine how much more frustrating it would be if Vazquez wasn't going to the bump every five days...

bravesfan22193
06-16-2009, 09:40 PM
No way the White Sox go for that, we'd have to give some kind of prospect (not top 5 or so) to make it work but I like what you're thinking with this one, far more realistic than the rangers, red sox, braves one of last time. Yes trading Vazquez would not be an easy move but he's the best trade piece for a major bat and Dye is also signed through next year. Hudson replaces Javy next year, Medlen takes his place this year (downgrade i know but we would still have well above average starting pitching imo). Dye instantly would slide into the cleanup slot and provide some power in the lineup. Bye to Francoeur as well which is a bonus. Then to add onto that we also get Wood who could play SS, 3B (in case of injury to chipper), or 2B for us. He's got major power as well. Could turn around and move Escobar to Boston for example for Buchholz or Bowden+Bard (just an example, not advocating moving Esco)

littleknighty
06-17-2009, 06:41 AM
I know everyone is probably tired of my 3 team trade ideas but here's my latest:

Braves get brandon wood and jermaine Dye

Angels get javier vasquez and jeff bennet

ChiSox get Chone Figgins

Javy's and Dye's contracts almost match
And this gives us freedom to field offers for both Yunel and KJ

Thoughts?

Not Bad

Saltyfan
06-17-2009, 08:28 AM
In all honesty, its going to have to be a 3 team trade if JV is going to net us a power bat. Especially Corner spot.

Think about it. NO contending team is going to trade a corner outfield power bat. Its not happening. Than you got to think why would a team out of contention trade FOR a ageing pitcher. Albeit a damn good one. There is no instance where it matches up well. So whoever is bringing up the 3 team trades is on to something.

nps6724
06-17-2009, 09:15 AM
The only thing JV gets us is a young player who is blocked somewhere IMO.

rtgthree
06-17-2009, 10:57 AM
I know everyone is probably tired of my 3 team trade ideas but here's my latest

I mean no offense, but yeah, just because three-team trades are so difficult to work out in real life (which is why they are so rare). You can engineer them in fantasy baseball, but three-team deals involving that many high-profile players are few and far between.


I say trade Vasquez to tha Blue Jays for a package built around Rios, Wells, or Snyder. Any one wouldd helpp

Uh, no. Maybe you haven't seen Rios' or Wells' contracts lately. And Travis Snider ain't going nowhere.


I really think it would be a huge mistake for the Braves to trade Vazquez.

Agreed, for the reason NPS states below...


The only thing JV gets us is a young player who is blocked somewhere IMO.

Monkeyfumes
06-17-2009, 12:27 PM
just wandering...what do you propose the Angels do about infield depth if they trade Figgins and Wood with no infielder compensation?

CrippledRam
06-17-2009, 01:41 PM
Snider is LH Too...If they are still 5ish games out at the break i'd call and offer JV, Sori/Gonzo, and cover their salaries for the rest of the year. That would give them a shot in the division. They hang up in about 2 seconds but I'd call :). Snider/JS/Heyward :drool:

HCo HERO
06-18-2009, 12:14 PM
If brad penny and Jarrod washburn are supposively the best pitchers available, I'm sorry to say but now is the best time to trade JV. If you wait til winter then you have Peavy and others healthy and available. 1 1/2 years of JV (who will probably be a type A) would entice playoff desperate teams more now than later.

It doesn't concede next year because of money saved could get us the bat we need.

littleknighty
06-18-2009, 01:01 PM
^ I'm starting to come to the same conclusion. Would you deal him to the Phillies who seem the most desperate for a starter.

nps6724
06-18-2009, 01:03 PM
^ I'm starting to come to the same conclusion. Would you deal him to the Phillies who seem the most desperate for a starter.

Depends on the return. But to help them out, it'd have to be an unbelievable package.

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 01:27 PM
im new to this site and ive come up with an idea for now and the future. first i would go after ben zobrist from tampa who is looking for pitching which we have plenty of. he would fill two spots rf for this year and maybe next until heyward is ready and then we could move him to second when heyward comes up. second i dont know much about him but mark reynolds from arizona is somebody i think we should go after. i know hes a third baseman but i see this year hes been playing some 1b, so we could put him at first for now and backup chipper when he gets hurt and then take over third when chipper retires. i dont really know what arizona would need back probably kotchman and some prospects. it adds two power bats one a righty the other a switch hitter. some other moves id make is cut ga and call up brandon jones and still keep the platoon with diaz in lf ,he cant be any worse. trade frenchy for any prospect you could get. also id trade kelly either in one of the trades for those two guys or a seperate trade for prospects. to me this line up would be great. tell me what you guys think mclouth zobrist chipper reynolds mccann escobar prado bj/diaz

Half-Truism
06-18-2009, 01:44 PM
I say we trade neither Gonzo or Soriano. They both are pretty much lockdowns in the 8th and 9th innings. If we keep them then it would be hella hard to try and come back after those two innings.

BravoFan3736
06-18-2009, 02:00 PM
im new to this site and ive come up with an idea for now and the future. first i would go after ben zobrist from tampa who is looking for pitching which we have plenty of. he would fill two spots rf for this year and maybe next until heyward is ready and then we could move him to second when heyward comes up. second i dont know much about him but mark reynolds from arizona is somebody i think we should go after. i know hes a third baseman but i see this year hes been playing some 1b, so we could put him at first for now and backup chipper when he gets hurt and then take over third when chipper retires. i dont really know what arizona would need back probably kotchman and some prospects. it adds two power bats one a righty the other a switch hitter. some other moves id make is cut ga and call up brandon jones and still keep the platoon with diaz in lf ,he cant be any worse. trade frenchy for any prospect you could get. also id trade kelly either in one of the trades for those two guys or a seperate trade for prospects. to me this line up would be great. tell me what you guys think mclouth zobrist chipper reynolds mccann escobar prado bj/diaz

First of all welcome to site and I am glad you have joined to give your input but it would take ALOT to get zobrist away from the rays. He is cheap, undercontol, productive, switching hitting, and versatile player. This would be more plausible if the Rays 2b Iwamura didn't get injuried for the whole season. Now zobrist is playing 2B/SS FT and the Rays couldn't trade him with the lack of depth at 2B at this point. Plus this guy is on fire right now and he would net a package like Hicks/TJones + Freeman type to start with for the Rays to even consider trading him. Plus the problem with Rays is that they can't really add any additional payroll which makes it just it bit tough to pull of a deal involving any guys that are getting payed (Sorian/Gonzo).Just not going to happen though....
Reynolds is just Ahhh type of guy that I rather just throw down prospects for a younger type guy with more upside than him. Plus I just think most of these holes that this line up has will be address next off season at LF/2B with NM moving to RF and Schafer at CF.

JV should be move sooner than later though it seems that longer we hold on too him more value he get with other best options out there being Brad Penny and J Washburn!! So it might be better to deal with leverage out there for the need for SP to get legit talent in return which could help this team next year and beyond.

HCo HERO
06-18-2009, 02:01 PM
Trade Kamikaze and some of our bullpen froot loops for someone that can hit like Dunn. Cuz the Nationals are just that, DUNN. And we won't be far behind with sub-par offense like this. Let's face it, our no-look hand-bag-grab-for-a-Jap didn't pan out or pay off like Hide-da-deeky Matsushi, Hideos Nomo, Itchy Zero and Kazbo Matphooey did. 3-6 with a 4.54 ain't exactly what you would call stellar. Leave Vazquez alone, he's doing ok (3.41), he's just getting no freaking run support.

First, all the nicknames aren't funny and not sort of but is racist. Jap is a racist term and calling a Japanese person kamakazi is like calling someone from Germany a Nazi. As far as kawakami he just doesn't get the run support, he gives us quality starts we just don't have the offense to support him. He also is our first Japanese player so we aren't trading him.

Vasquez is pitching well so that means his value is at his highest and with not many quality arms out there, now would be the time to field offers to get top talent in return.

nps6724
06-18-2009, 02:45 PM
That's the way to go about it, "just get over it". BRILLIANT!

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 03:02 PM
thank you for the welcome bravofan. maybe we could send kelly in part of the package for zobrist hes cheap and so is the young pitching we would send along with him. as for mark reynolds he wont be 26 until aug hes still young and has the power bat we need . and they would fill huge needs for the future also.

uncblue2332
06-18-2009, 03:31 PM
thank you for the welcome bravofan. maybe we could send kelly in part of the package for zobrist hes cheap and so is the young pitching we would send along with him. as for mark reynolds he wont be 26 until aug hes still young and has the power bat we need . and they would fill huge needs for the future also.

mylanta you are obviously not listening. Zobrist is as close to untouchable right now as they come. The Rays have little depth behind him especially with him starting in place of Aki Iwamura who is out for the season. They cant add payroll and they wont move their hot, under team control, cheap utility player with good power. KJ has no trade value what so ever right now and TB would never do a deal with him. He is also set to make 3 + mill next year so KJ isnt an option for them. As far as Mark Reynolds I dont see that happening either. We have Kotchman under control through next season and after that we wont need anyone at 1b with freeman coming up by mid 2011 at latest. Also once again why would arizona trade a power hitter who is under team control for a while with little depth behind him??? Try to think of players and trades that work for both teams, thats normally how trades get done

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 03:41 PM
teams would do those types of trades when the compensation is right. im not saying send diory hernandez for reynolds i know you have to pay a price to get these guys but there cheap and could be the future so i would be ok sending some top talent to get them because they would fill holes for a long time.

uncblue2332
06-18-2009, 03:46 PM
teams would do those types of trades when the compensation is right. im not saying send diory hernandez for reynolds i know you have to pay a price to get these guys but there cheap and could be the future so i would be ok sending some top talent to get them because they would fill holes for a long time.

So essentially what your saying is send a package like Freddie Freeman, Cole Rohbrough, KJ, and Todd Redmond???? for ZOBRIST hahhaa

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 03:55 PM
i would do medlen , teheran and kj and acosta for giggles . no team is going to want redmond hes a bum.

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 03:56 PM
for zobrist, sorry

uncblue2332
06-18-2009, 04:12 PM
for zobrist, sorry

Wow I wouldnt trade Zobrist for Medlen straight up. Reasons why:

1. 3 years of control on zobrist vs. 5 years of control on medlen left.
2. We dont NEED zobrist we have capable backups who should have replaced KJ already, Prado could easily start, infante when he comes back, and Diory could spell prado when needed.
3. Medlen is top of the rotation starter and you dont trade those types of guys, hopefully by 2011 it will be

Hanson, Medlen, JJ, Lowe

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 04:25 PM
i was saying to trade for zobrist to fill rf not 2b. the whole idea was getting a real rf bat with power and getting rid of frenchy. i agree with prado starting if you looked at my earlier post. and in no way is medlen a top of the rotation starter hes tops a number 3 guy. those guys are good trade bait.

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 04:28 PM
dont get me wrong i wish to god medlen was a top of the rotation guy he just doesnt have the stuff to be a top guy.

CrippledRam
06-18-2009, 04:29 PM
Zobrist and Bartlett will be starting for them next yr. Iwamura is a FA after the year.

uncblue2332
06-18-2009, 04:50 PM
dont get me wrong i wish to god medlen was a top of the rotation guy he just doesnt have the stuff to be a top guy.

Well I consider 3 and up top of the rotation considering your 4 and 5 are 4 + era and just sometimes innings eaters...but I guess its debatable. That being said is it that hard to see medlen being a 2? I dont think it is and with him getting more experience as a starter rather than a reliever i think he can get there...worst case scenario he is a 3 or he stays in the pen and becomes our closer

BravoFan3736
06-18-2009, 04:57 PM
Zobrist and Bartlett will be starting for them next yr. Iwamura is a FA after the year.

Iwamura has a club option next year but pretty much zobrist performance this year so far as sealed the deal that the team will decline the club option of 4M in 10' for Iwamura...

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 05:01 PM
i dont see a number 2 in medlen but thats just me i see him as a 4 with a 3 as his upside. jj is a number 2, lowe is a number 2 ,medlen in no way has as much potential or upside . he could never be our closer either because he throws 86-90 mph tops thats not closer stuff .but thats just my opinion. like you said debatable. i say hes more valueable for trades.

bravesfan22193
06-18-2009, 05:06 PM
I think Medlen has more value staying because I don't think other teams will view him as an ace potential pitcher but he can still be incredibily effective. It's just that guys that profile as no. 3's don't get you a big power bat generally

CrippledRam
06-18-2009, 05:16 PM
i dont see a number 2 in medlen but thats just me i see him as a 4 with a 3 as his upside. jj is a number 2, lowe is a number 2 ,medlen in no way has as much potential or upside . he could never be our closer either because he throws 86-90 mph tops thats not closer stuff .but thats just my opinion. like you said debatable. i say hes more valueable for trades.

Trevor Hoffman has never broken 90 in his career and I heard he was a decent closer.

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 05:19 PM
i agree with you with that statement .thats why i said you would have to package medlen with others to get the big bat.

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 05:22 PM
oh yes trevor hoffman did top 90 for most of his career until the last 5yrs or so , when his velocity took a nose dive. also trevor hoffman probably had one of the best secondary pitches ever with that changeup and chris medlen just doesnt have a pitch like that.

herbert91
06-18-2009, 05:42 PM
We are in an obvious building year and it seems pitching is in pretty good shape for at least 2-3 years. Our need is a good bat and we need more than one or two. My suggestion is to go after Josh Hamilton of the Rangers right now. He is on the DA because of injury but he will be back before the end of the season. He is young and has the talent to become the bat we need for next year. With the talent Texas has on the team and in the system, they might would part with him for a pitcher or maybe even a position player or two. Hamilton is still affordable and if obtained, he could be signed long term reasonably soon. I can vision him as a big bat for Atlanta for years to come. He grew up in my area and I've watched him for years. He has power and speed and has a natural baseball mind. I think an offer right now while he is on the DA would get him and even though he wouldn't help much this year, he would be a powerful addition for next year and years to come.

rtgthree
06-18-2009, 06:05 PM
^ I'm starting to come to the same conclusion. Would you deal him to the Phillies who seem the most desperate for a starter.

Phillies don't have the kind of franchise prospect we would need in return. I wouldn't move Vazquez unless I got a true stud in return.


first i would go after ben zobrist from tampa who is looking for pitching which we have plenty of. second i dont know much about him but mark reynolds from arizona is somebody i think we should go after.

Unfortunately, neither Zobrist nor Reynolds is even close to available.


Trade Kawakami and some of our bullpen froot loops for someone that can hit like Dunn. Cuz the Nationals are just that, DUNN. And we won't be far behind with sub-par offense like this.

First, the price for Dunn is reported to be "astronomical," per Jayson Stark, so it's not like you can bag up some of your garbage and have them send Dunn your way.


JV should be move sooner than later though it seems that longer we hold on too him more value he get with other best options out there being Brad Penny and J Washburn!! So it might be better to deal with leverage out there for the need for SP to get legit talent in return which could help this team next year and beyond.

Why would you want to trade the NL's second-best pitcher?


i would do medlen , teheran and kj and acosta for giggles . no team is going to want redmond hes a bum.

Right, yeah. Package Medlen AND Teheran in one deal? You don't know much about either one if you put them together "for giggles."


he could never be our closer either because he throws 86-90 mph tops thats not closer stuff

Do some homework, dude. His fastball tops out at 92-93 MPH.


My suggestion is to go after Josh Hamilton of the Rangers right now.

Texas ain't trading Josh Hamilton.

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 06:13 PM
just because medlen tops out at 92 doesnt mean anything ,have you watched a game that he pitched becasue all i saw was 86-90 touched 92 once maybe twice so topping out doesnt mean thats where his average is.

rtgthree
06-18-2009, 06:16 PM
just because medlen tops out at 92 doesnt mean anything ,have you watched a game that he pitched becasue all i saw was 86-90 touched 92 once maybe twice so topping out doesnt mean thats where his average is.

He averages 89 MPH...I can say that for a fact courtesy of MLB's PitchF/X data. I've watched all the games that he's pitched, and read scouting reports that say he sits in the 88-91 range and touches 92-93, which is plenty effective for a fastball when you've got secondary stuff like he has plus good command.

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 06:17 PM
first the giggles part was for acosta get that straight,second what do you know about teheran nobody knows what we have in him just because atlanta was hyping him for the past 2 yrs he hasnt proven anything. and to get a guy like zobrist yes i would trade him if zobrist was available. just my opinion.

CrippledRam
06-18-2009, 06:19 PM
He averages 89 MPH...I can say that for a fact courtesy of MLB's PitchF/X data. I've watched all the games that he's pitched, and read scouting reports that say he sits in the 88-91 range and touches 92-93, which is plenty effective for a fastball when you've got secondary stuff like he has plus good command.

And if we was closing he could ratchet it up around 91/92 on a regular basis as he doesn't need to save juice for 90+ pitches

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 06:21 PM
none of medlen pitches are considered plus pitches what made him in the minors was his command. all im saying is he could never be a closer with his stuff. nor was he ever projected to be.

rtgthree
06-18-2009, 06:24 PM
first the giggles part was for acosta get that straight,second what do you know about teheran nobody knows what we have in him just because atlanta was hyping him for the past 2 yrs he hasnt proven anything. and to get a guy like zobrist yes i would trade him if zobrist was available. just my opinion.

Don't tell me to "get that straight." Maybe if you used some punctuation I could understand what you mean...as it stands, your syntax is totally ambiguous in that comment.

The hype on Teheran doesn't just come from the Braves. Independent analysts love him too. Throws easy 94-95 MPH gas with a clean delivery and solid secondary stuff for a guy of his age. Plus he's got a projectable frame. It's true, there's a good chance he washes out between now and the big leagues, but you can't afford to be the team that traded away the next Felix Hernandez (to whom he frequently draws comparisons).

I might trade Teheran for Zobrist, but it's going to take FAR more than that to pry him away from the Rays, and when you start adding on even more big-time prospects, the deal loses its attractiveness very quickly. Especially when it's debatable that even a stick like Zobrist could rescue the Braves at this stage.

BravoFan3736
06-18-2009, 06:26 PM
first the giggles part was for acosta get that straight,second what do you know about teheran nobody knows what we have in him just because atlanta was hyping him for the past 2 yrs he hasnt proven anything. and to get a guy like zobrist yes i would trade him if zobrist was available. just my opinion.

Normally any prospect below A ball is extremely under rated in trades and would rather let them develop first so that they can increase their trade value dramatically. Teheran is a kid and he needs to be healthy and pitch for a whole year before I even consider trading him. If the hype of this kid pans out with a good year under his belt his trade value will sky rocket next year around this time. Hold on to him and let him develop.

littleknighty
06-18-2009, 06:32 PM
Instead of Zobrist how about Reid Brignac. If we sell we will go after prospects with little or no service time.

RTG, I do not want to trade JV either but on the business side we would be spending @45mil on (Huddy,JV, Lowe, and KK) the rotation. That leaves @ 60mil or so for the bullpen and the everday players. I think the rotation without JV would be good enough to justify using his money for offense. While we are a mid market team we still need all the young controllable players we can get. So to sum up I do beleive its the best business decision to sell high on JV for the prospects and the money to be saved.

UNCBlue, We do not have to tolerate racism

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 06:36 PM
well im not going to lie, my puctuation will probably be horrible but more importantly is the debates on this forum which is what i joined for ,not a spelling bee contest.

we already traded the better pitching prospect feliz for a bat ,all im saying is i would do it again. from what i read lately teheran isnt even considered a major prospect anymore because he hasnt shown anything i forget what major baseball writer said it.

rtgthree
06-18-2009, 06:44 PM
RTG, I do not want to trade JV either but on the business side we would be spending @45mil on (Huddy,JV, Lowe, and KK) the rotation. That leaves @ 60mil or so for the bullpen and the everday players. I think the rotation without JV would be good enough to justify using his money for offense. While we are a mid market team we still need all the young controllable players we can get. So to sum up I do beleive its the best business decision to sell high on JV for the prospects and the money to be saved.

But what prospects do you think you're going to get for Vazquez? I could be wrong, but I'm betting he's still perceived as nothing more than the mid-rotation innings-eater that some of our more short-sighted posters thought he was when we traded for him. Which means while you might do OK in terms of return, it's doubtful you'll get an ace-caliber haul.

With $72 million committed in guaranteed contracts including Vazquez and Hudson and about $18 million due for arbitration and minimum-salary guys, that leaves you about $10 million to find a corner outfielder (presuming Schafer takes over in center with McLouth moving to a corner) and a bullpen arm. That's far from impossible, what with a stacked free-agent market for relievers, and the availability of RH OF bats like Willingham or Cody Ross who are going to give you a lot more bang for your buck than the likes of Jermaine Dye anyway.


UNCBlue, We do not have to tolerate racism

Something tells me that post will be down in relatively short order.


well im not going to lie, my puctuation will probably be horrible but more importantly is the debates on this forum which is what i joined for ,not a spelling bee contest.

I don't give a crap about your punctuation, but if you don't do it right, then don't be upset or surprised when people misinterpret what you write.


we already traded the better pitching prospect feliz for a bat ,all im saying is i would do it again. from what i read lately teheran isnt even considered a major prospect anymore because he hasnt shown anything i forget what major baseball writer said it.

You would trade that package for Mark Teixeira all over again? You might be the first Braves fan I've met that would do that deal again. I would kill to have Neftali Feliz back. I don't know what "major baseball writer" said that about Teheran either, but that's simply not true. He hasn't shown anything because he hasn't had a chance. He's only in his age-18 season, and short-season ball hasn't even started yet. He'll get out on the field in less than a week once Danville starts playing games.

bravesfan22193
06-18-2009, 06:49 PM
As littleknighty pointed out, we would still have a top of the line rotation if we simply substituted Hudson for Vazquez next season and Medlen as the insurance policy. Freeing up his money along with one of Gonzo/Sori gives us the money to get an impact bat in FA. Yes he has been arguably our best pitcher so I'm not advocating getting rid of him just to move the money but if we can get a nice package there is definitely value in trading him. Also as for Philly as a trade partner, I wouldn't mind adding Kyle Drabek and one of Carrosco/Taylor to go with some other pieces. Could maybe get a better offer but I'd love to take some nice prospects away from the Phils

bravesfan22193
06-18-2009, 06:52 PM
With $72 million committed in guaranteed contracts including Vazquez and Hudson and about $18 million due for arbitration and minimum-salary guys, that leaves you about $10 million to find a corner outfielder (presuming Schafer takes over in center with McLouth moving to a corner) and a bullpen arm. That's far from impossible, what with a stacked free-agent market for relievers, and the availability of RH OF bats like Willingham or Cody Ross who are going to give you a lot more bang for your buck than the likes of Jermaine Dye anyway.


so is that counting guys like Francoeur, Gonzalez, and Soriano? And I agree if we don't get a very nice offer for Vazquez, we're better off holding on to him

rtgthree
06-18-2009, 06:56 PM
so is that counting guys like Francoeur, Gonzalez, and Soriano? And I agree if we don't get a very nice offer for Vazquez, we're better off holding on to him

No. We have $72 million for nine players, in decreasing order of salary: Lowe, Chipper, Hudson, Vazquez, Kawakami, McCann, McLouth, Infante, Ross. Then we have probably $15 million due in arbitration to Johnson, Kotchman, Diaz and Moylan, and $4 million more pays 10 minimum-salary players. That leaves two roster spots: a LF/RF and a relief pitcher, and perhaps $9-10 million to pay them.

rtgthree
06-18-2009, 06:59 PM
As littleknighty pointed out, we would still have a top of the line rotation if we simply substituted Hudson for Vazquez next season and Medlen as the insurance policy. Freeing up his money along with one of Gonzo/Sori gives us the money to get an impact bat in FA. Yes he has been arguably our best pitcher so I'm not advocating getting rid of him just to move the money but if we can get a nice package there is definitely value in trading him. Also as for Philly as a trade partner, I wouldn't mind adding Kyle Drabek and one of Carrosco/Taylor to go with some other pieces. Could maybe get a better offer but I'd love to take some nice prospects away from the Phils

I'd rather get a solid bat via trade who doesn't cost as much. I don't think the cost of either Jason Bay or Matt Holliday will justify the expense. And I would move him too if there's a nice package, but IMO a "nice package" has to be centered around an absolute franchise prospect like a Matt LaPorta. Drabek AND Carrasco or Taylor might be enough, but I can't see the Phils trading that much talent in-division for a guy that only just became an ace a few months ago.

CrippledRam
06-18-2009, 07:12 PM
The only way I could see us moving him for a prospect would be maybe for Austin Jackson if Wang is done (he is) and Hughes doesn't step up. Or the Cardinals could want him for a deal centered around Brett Wallace (Chipper's replacement).

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 07:16 PM
ok i understand that if my punctuation isnt right it could be misinterpreted, agreed.

yes i would do that trade again minus feliz, he was the only one that i cared about at the time and from what i understand he was a late throw in. i was never high on harrison,andrus or salty and beau jones was a bum. if you look at now, who out of that trade are you missing so much besides feliz? salty is a below average catcher who strikes out a ton ,hes the second coming to frenchy but as a catcher. andrus to me is a guy who will be great defensively but not much with the bat and no power either. dont get me started on harrison i just knew he wasnt going to amount to anything , have any lefthanded pitchers from the braves orginization panned out recently? so to me it all comes down to feliz, ive been saying from day one of the trade that he will be the one with the most upside and the one we will regret trading. hes the one im sick about . hes also still got some kinks to work out with his control before he really bites us. still would love to have him . so yes i would do that trade again lol.

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 07:26 PM
i dont understand why so many braves fans are upset about the trade with texas. salty was blocked and would never make it at first ,even texas seen he couldnt transition there. andrus was blocked also by a more established guy in escobar whos defense is just as good and has a much better bat. harrison like i said never showed me anything to make me think he was something special. beau jones wasnt a deal breaker hes a scrap. now feliz is the only one that all braves fans are sick about. hopefully he doesnt turn into somebody we are going to regret for a long time. thats just my opinion on that trade.

bravesfan22193
06-18-2009, 07:30 PM
I would absolutely love to have Brett Wallace, doubt the Cardinals would even consider moving him

CrippledRam
06-18-2009, 07:35 PM
It matters if they think they can win a WS this yr. Vasquez would give them the best playoff rotation in baseball. I doubt they'd do it but it would be worth a call.

bravesfan22193
06-18-2009, 07:43 PM
"i dont understand why so many braves fans are upset about the trade with texas. salty was blocked and would never make it at first ,even texas seen he couldnt transition there. andrus was blocked also by a more established guy in escobar whos defense is just as good and has a much better bat. harrison like i said never showed me anything to make me think he was something special. beau jones wasnt a deal breaker hes a scrap. now feliz is the only one that all braves fans are sick about. hopefully he doesnt turn into somebody we are going to regret for a long time. thats just my opinion on that trade."

Who's to say Salty wouldn't have made it at first? Also he was very nearly dealt for Buchholz if you put any stock in the rumors from a year or so ago, I'd love to have Clay right about now. Texas has/had Blalock, Chris Davis, and Justin Smoak in the organization (1B was blocked for them). Andrus or Escobar could've been the center piece of a deal for a major pitcher in the off-season (ie Peavy) or we could have moved Andrus to second and traded Kelly to the Cards for Ludwick. Dont mind losing Harrison either. Feliz really hurts, a future trio of Feliz, Hanson, and Jurrjens would've been sick

uncblue2332
06-18-2009, 07:50 PM
"i dont understand why so many braves fans are upset about the trade with texas. salty was blocked and would never make it at first ,even texas seen he couldnt transition there. andrus was blocked also by a more established guy in escobar whos defense is just as good and has a much better bat. harrison like i said never showed me anything to make me think he was something special. beau jones wasnt a deal breaker hes a scrap. now feliz is the only one that all braves fans are sick about. hopefully he doesnt turn into somebody we are going to regret for a long time. thats just my opinion on that trade."

Who's to say Salty wouldn't have made it at first? Also he was very nearly dealt for Buchholz if you put any stock in the rumors from a year or so ago, I'd love to have Clay right about now. Texas has/had Blalock, Chris Davis, and Justin Smoak in the organization (1B was blocked for them). Andrus or Escobar could've been the center piece of a deal for a major pitcher in the off-season (ie Peavy) or we could have moved Andrus to second and traded Kelly to the Cards for Ludwick. Dont mind losing Harrison either. Feliz really hurts, a future trio of Feliz, Hanson, and Jurrjens would've been sick

Correct me if im wrong but i thought feliz was a reliever not a starter

CrippledRam
06-18-2009, 07:50 PM
We would have made SOME deal for a bat then.

CrippledRam
06-18-2009, 07:51 PM
Correct me if im wrong but i thought feliz was a reliever not a starter

Always been a starter

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 07:56 PM
texas tried salty at first last year and he failed .he doesnt have the foot work to transition to first. he must have a real sugar foot lol. i dont take much stock in those rumors of salty for buchholz plus buchholz was pitching horrible all year last year and boston still didnt pull the trigger. i think it was more wishfull thinking on texas part.

andrus was expendable at the time and had to be used to get a guy like tex.

your right a rotation of feliz , hanson, and jj would be ridiculous.

uncblue2332
06-18-2009, 07:56 PM
Always been a starter

ok I guess I just have bad memory

rtgthree
06-18-2009, 08:00 PM
i dont understand why so many braves fans are upset about the trade with texas. salty was blocked and would never make it at first ,even texas seen he couldnt transition there. andrus was blocked also by a more established guy in escobar whos defense is just as good and has a much better bat. harrison like i said never showed me anything to make me think he was something special. beau jones wasnt a deal breaker hes a scrap. now feliz is the only one that all braves fans are sick about. hopefully he doesnt turn into somebody we are going to regret for a long time. thats just my opinion on that trade.

And by and large, I agree with your opinion on that trade. I'm not shedding any tears over Saltalamacchia, Andrus, Harrison or Jones...your evaluations of them are quite accurate. But Feliz looks right now like "the one that got away." And even at the time of the trade, Feliz was the one incongruous piece: all the other guys were either blocked (Salty) or overhyped (Andrus, Harrison). But why trade away an 18-year-old with clean mechanics and 98 MPH gas?! That should never happen because there's such ridiculous upside, but they get devalued because there's also so much risk. With guys like that, you have to keep them and take your shots because if they pan out you really regret it.

Keep in mind this would discussion started over Teheran, who's effectively a piece like Feliz, with virtually unlimited potential. He's one of the few guys in the Braves' system that I would consider absolutely untouchable, unless some team got obsessed with him and just blew us away with a can't-miss offer.

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 08:28 PM
rtg i agree with you, feliz is the only guy out of that trade im sick about i never understood it. the reason why i would trade teheran without being as sick is because he would help get the bat or bats we need and im getting the feeling teheran is very injury prone which scares me. i would only do it if it got us the impact bat we needed.

oh-mylanta
06-18-2009, 08:41 PM
anybody think a guy like alberto callaspo could help our team ? shouldnt take too much to get him. i know hes not a power bat but in my opinion hes a guy to slot in the 2 hole and move escobar down to the sixth spot where escobar in my opinion would be more productive hes great with runners on which doesnt happen as much in the 2 hole. thoughts?

jmtapia
06-18-2009, 09:25 PM
damn just thought about it:

Hanson
Feliz
JJ

Would be insane!!!

We do have a few good young ARMs down in the minors... R. Delgado, D. Delgado, Juilo Taheran are with in a couple years of showing us what they got..

A_Brave_Pack
06-18-2009, 09:56 PM
Here could be an interesting option in RF:
http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/tigersblog/index.php?blogid=1643

Maggilo Ordonez has been benched by the Detorit Tigers 'indefinitely'. I know his power is WAY down (2HR, 22RBIs) but he did hit .363 with 28HR and 139 RBIs in 2007 and hit .317 with 21HR and 103 RBIs the last two years. Add on that his OBP is still .347, regardless of his struggles and he is still could be valuable.

I know, I have not been a huge fan of these 'dream' player threads, but with Ordonez hitting the pine in Detroit, he could be expendable to the Tigers, if the price were right.

Tigers Get:
Francoeur
Reyes
Redmond/Logan

Braves Get:
Ordonez
*Cash

*Maggilo is making just under $19m. It may take player of Medlen's caliber to get the Tigers to throw $10-12m the Braves way.


What do you guys think? As I wrote this, the less infatuated with the idea I, personally, have become. Depends if the Braves can put together a 4-5 game win streak...

BRAVE KID
06-18-2009, 10:04 PM
just throwing this out there, if anyone posts any type of racist comments you will get an automatic ban. It is stated in the rules and I will not tolerate any of that.

rtgthree
06-18-2009, 10:51 PM
rtg i agree with you, feliz is the only guy out of that trade im sick about i never understood it. the reason why i would trade teheran without being as sick is because he would help get the bat or bats we need and im getting the feeling teheran is very injury prone which scares me. i would only do it if it got us the impact bat we needed.

But Feliz helped us get a bat we needed also. Remember that Teheran does not have a history of any major injuries; the Braves have shut him down a few times just out of extreme caution. A couple days ago, the A's shut down their prized Latin American teenager Michel Ynoa indefinitely because of like a bone bruise or something. Teheran (and Ynoa) have plenty of time to grow, so there's no use taking your chances. If nothing else, let's see how he pitches once Danville's season starts up (their first game is June 23rd) before we pass too many judgments. But from everything I've read, Teheran may be even more special than Feliz because Julio has secondary stuff that Neftali never had.


anybody think a guy like alberto callaspo could help our team ? shouldnt take too much to get him.

Can't say I see the Royals trading Callaspo, since he's still controllable.


Here could be an interesting option in RF:
http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/tigersblog/index.php?blogid=1643

Maggilo Ordonez has been benched by the Detorit Tigers 'indefinitely'. I know his power is WAY down (2HR, 22RBIs) but he did hit .363 with 28HR and 139 RBIs in 2007 and hit .317 with 21HR and 103 RBIs the last two years. Add on that his OBP is still .347, regardless of his struggles and he is still could be valuable.

I just can't see the money working out unless you're prepared to write a really big check. Not only is there this season, there's also an $18 million option for next season that would vest. The Braves just can't take on that kind of money, and Detroit isn't going to send us $20 million to take the problem off their hands.

I have to believe Ordonez will file a grievance of some kind in short order, as it seems pretty obvious that the Tigers are benching him in order to prevent him from reaching the playing-time levels that would trigger his 2010 option. Under the current CBA, that's not allowed, and I think the Tigers will have a hard time arguing that his benching is purely performance-related since their next best options are the likes of Clete Thomas and Ryan Raburn.

jmtapia
06-18-2009, 11:29 PM
No to Mags....

BravoFan3736
06-19-2009, 12:10 PM
But Feliz helped us get a bat we needed also. Remember that Teheran does not have a history of any major injuries; the Braves have shut him down a few times just out of extreme caution. A couple days ago, the A's shut down their prized Latin American teenager Michel Ynoa indefinitely because of like a bone bruise or something. Teheran (and Ynoa) have plenty of time to grow, so there's no use taking your chances. If nothing else, let's see how he pitches once Danville's season starts up (their first game is June 23rd) before we pass too many judgments. But from everything I've read, Teheran may be even more special than Feliz because Julio has secondary stuff that Neftali never had.



Can't say I see the Royals trading Callaspo, since he's still controllable.



I just can't see the money working out unless you're prepared to write a really big check. Not only is there this season, there's also an $18 million option for next season that would vest. The Braves just can't take on that kind of money, and Detroit isn't going to send us $20 million to take the problem off their hands.

I have to believe Ordonez will file a grievance of some kind in short order, as it seems pretty obvious that the Tigers are benching him in order to prevent him from reaching the playing-time levels that would trigger his 2010 option. Under the current CBA, that's not allowed, and I think the Tigers will have a hard time arguing that his benching is purely performance-related since their next best options are the likes of Clete Thomas and Ryan Raburn.

First I wouldn't touch Ordonez at all with his power outage in the HR dept in which it screams to me that he could have juiced at one point. Don't get me wrong he is a excellant hitter but not for the 18M he currently under contract that has vested options for next two years.
As for the next best hitter outside Cabrera than Ordonez is not Thomas and Raburn rather Ganderson this year. He has been very underrated this year and he is producing some HUGE power numbers .345OPS/.494SLG/.266 AVG with 16 HRs which is leading the team! Yes more than Cabrera/Inge!

Updated: rtgthree I miss understood the post in the best option to replace Mags not overall in the lineup who has a better bat other than Mags

bravesfan22193
06-19-2009, 01:28 PM
he meant to start in RF over Ordonez

ArtW
06-19-2009, 01:47 PM
I think the Braves need to trade Garrett Anderson.

Iceman_24_05
06-21-2009, 02:52 PM
Now I know he is under team control for a while and the Rays wouldn't want to trade him but I think if we were to Offer Johnson Gonzalez and maybe a upper prospect for Zobrist and a low level prospect. I think the Rays would be inclinded to listen and Possibly make a deal. I think it gives the Rays a good bulpen guy that they desperatly need and someone still under team control to play second and who can bat further down in the order and maybe get back on track. The Braves get partially rid of the black hole in their lineup and someone who can crush the ball; and also a guy who can play anywhere but mainly 2nd right now. Plus he is under team control and cheap for a while. Let me know what you think guys

CrippledRam
06-21-2009, 03:23 PM
That's a good bit of money for them to take. Plus I can't see them trading him

NBA_Starter
06-21-2009, 03:26 PM
Sorry don't see that happening.

rtgthree
06-21-2009, 03:46 PM
Please don't make new threads for stuff like this. There's not even close to any basis in reported fact for this, and the Rays aren't going to trade Zobrist. Not that I have a problem with idle speculation, but find an existing thread that makes sense to put it in. Otherwise the board gets clogged.

braveMania
06-21-2009, 04:27 PM
why do yal keep putting these unrealistic trades on here..the braves are done this year.

Braves28Herbs7
06-21-2009, 07:42 PM
So I know probably many people will be mad im making a thread for this but oh well. So francoeur did not play today and I was looking at the box score for the marlins and yankees, hermida is not playing either? I thought that was interesting.

CrippledRam
06-21-2009, 07:57 PM
He has played in 67 of their 70 previous games. I'll give it at least a minor thought.

Half-Truism
06-21-2009, 07:57 PM
Francoeur was in the clubhouse during the game, he was messing around with Javier.

Braves28Herbs7
06-21-2009, 08:06 PM
oh yeah i just remembered seeing him and kelly. and hermida just pinch hit. o well. nvmd sorry for the thread

ATLKoos16
06-22-2009, 12:51 AM
ya it was just a coincidence although, Joe mentioned that he wondered if him not playing had anything to do with the Royals scouting him this weekend

Born a Brave
06-22-2009, 12:43 PM
Great article on how Chipper Jones' tirade in Sunday's game could ressurrect the Atlanta Braves!! Hopefully it will provide some hope to you all!

http://www.atlantabravesnews.com/bornabrave/weblog/7752/thank-you-chipper.html

nps6724
06-22-2009, 01:15 PM
Usually a player's tirade helps you in the game it occurs in. I doubt it'll have much effect past a week at most. The last time Chipper did something leader-like (his speech before a game vs. Toronto IIRC) and it worked...for a series. Then we lost 4 in a row including being swept by San Fran.

BRAVE KID
06-22-2009, 04:02 PM
soooo...I hear Josh willingham still looks good. Might want to give the nats office a call.

atl_braves_fan
06-22-2009, 04:18 PM
^^ Willingham just makes too much sense. Maybe their asking price is too high - I read that at least one GM thinks they are asking too much for their trade pieces.

hawksd911
06-22-2009, 04:28 PM
I think a Frenchy and low level prospect for Willingham would work because Frenchy is still 25 and they need to get younger and maybe they think he still can turn into a star.

atl_braves_fan
06-22-2009, 04:37 PM
^^ I actually don't think that will work. The last thing they need is another outfield reclamation project (anyone remember Lastings Milledge). Also, Frenchy will cost them about $4MM next year.

I think they need a few bullpen arms and maybe a solid, but not top, pitching prospect.

Braves_Fan_RSD
06-22-2009, 07:20 PM
I think a Frenchy and low level prospect for Willingham would work because Frenchy is still 25 and they need to get younger and maybe they think he still can turn into a star.

You have to remember the reason they are willing to get rid of Willingham is because they have so much OF depth, adding Frenchy does nothing to help their current situation, Willingham will be traded for young pitching.

cheerio
06-22-2009, 08:09 PM
coincidence

Born a Brave
06-23-2009, 04:50 PM
Wonder if the Tigers would be willing to deal us Magglio rather cheap. His recent benching has been much publicized and I was thinking if Detroit picked up some of his tab, maybe we could pull a deal for him. Coming to the N.L. could help him out...... Just a thought........

atl_braves_fan
06-23-2009, 06:50 PM
^^ no thank you. Too old and expensive for next year. Also, he has lost a lot of his power. He would be better than Frenchy, but if that is the only standard, we should be willing to trade for a lot of people.

Mr. Hoodunnitt
06-23-2009, 06:53 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/source-injured-glaus-has-trade-appeal-at-1bdh-249497.html


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3902

I say we do it. Take a chance on Troy. And here's why:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5918

Numbers don't lie. We have enough offensive woes as it is at 2B, RF and LF.

flea
06-23-2009, 07:16 PM
Glaus is basically done for the year, probably for his career.

Half-Truism
06-23-2009, 07:22 PM
Left Field isn't a problem.

Mr. Hoodunnitt
06-23-2009, 07:23 PM
No he's not. Read the article. Plus, at 1B, he wouldn't need to throw much. I've always thought he was one of the better hitters/players in the game. I think we could possibly get him for a bargain if we could get the Cards to eat some of his salary.

Mr. Hoodunnitt
06-23-2009, 07:24 PM
Left Field isn't a problem.

Uh, yes it is:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3129

Half-Truism
06-23-2009, 07:25 PM
If the Cardinals are gonna trade him then they need to eat up most of his contract.

Half-Truism
06-23-2009, 07:25 PM
Uh, yes it is:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3129

And Left Field isn't contributing?

Mr. Hoodunnitt
06-23-2009, 07:30 PM
If the Cardinals are gonna trade him then they need to eat up most of his contract.

Agreed. But we do have money to spend if we need to, around 7 million I think. Maybe a multi-player deal?

CrippledRam
06-23-2009, 07:43 PM
He can't throw. We had a good 1B

Mr. Hoodunnitt
06-23-2009, 07:50 PM
He can't throw. We had a good 1B

We sure did, Teixeira. But that's water under the bridge.

cheerio
06-23-2009, 08:44 PM
The only position he might even be able to be is either 1b or DH according to espn

NBA_Starter
06-23-2009, 08:49 PM
I'd rather have a healthy Kotcher at 1st thanks!

Steady with the glove and bat.

ATLKoos16
06-23-2009, 08:57 PM
I'd rather have a healthy Kotcher at 1st thanks!

Steady with the glove and bat.

Me too! I like what he brings to the table. His average has taken a hit lately but its because of bad luck. He had like 5 straight at bats where he hit shots right at people and two of them were liners to the wall

rtgthree
06-23-2009, 09:21 PM
Glaus isn't a fit if he can't play the outfield.

rtgthree
06-23-2009, 09:22 PM
There's no way the Tigers could include enough money to make an Ordonez trade work.

CrippledRam
06-23-2009, 10:04 PM
He can't throw. We had a good 1B

*have

Braves_Fan_RSD
06-23-2009, 10:51 PM
Couple of things about this

If and this a big IF we wanted to go after after Glaus (which i very seriously doubt) we would be much better off waiting to see if the Cardinals just flat out release him. With Pujols (man his name look weird when you type it lol) at first the Cards have no place to put him except on the bench, so yes they will dangle him to try to get something for him but they will ask for significant prospects to eat his salary. Also Glaus has a full NTC so why would he waive it to come to a team which regrettably is in 4th place and be a bench player (because he wouldn't start over Kotchman at this point) when he can sit on a bench for a first place team?? If a trade was in place to get something in the OF by trading Kotchman then I would be ok with exploring this option and you never know with the Braves, but as of right now I see the Braves having very little if any interest in Glaus.

On another note welcome to the forum. :)

A_Brave_Pack
06-23-2009, 10:52 PM
On another note welcome to the forum. :)

Too late. He's already been banned. Not exactly sure why? Seemed to bring another voice to the table?

banditwolf
06-23-2009, 11:03 PM
Dye , Ordonez , Guillen , D. Young , Nagy , Holliday , A Jones , Cruz , Rios , Barmes , Spilborghs , Ross , Lee , Hart , Ludwick , Rowand , Willingham , Kearnes . All of them are right handed of course some do cost alot but if the other teams are willing to pay of this year and next pretty Braves would jump on it . Now out of those that i think Braves can get seriously My top 5 would be Ross , Willingham , Cruz , Holliday , Nagy .

bravesfan22193
06-23-2009, 11:28 PM
Josh Willingham. It's Nady not nagy and no way Cruz or Ludwick are available

rtgthree
06-23-2009, 11:28 PM
First, this doesn't need its own thread. We have the "2009 Trade Deadline Ideas" thread for stuff like this.

But as for your list, here's how I'd break it down:

Too expensive: Dye, Ordonez, Guillen, Holliday

Not available: Nady, A. Jones, Cruz, Rios, Barmes, Lee, Ludwick, Rowand

Not performing enough to be worth trading for: Young, Hart

That leaves Spilborghs, Ross, Willingham, and Kearns. All are viable options, with the caveat that we'd have to get some cash to take on Kearns (but I think the Nats are motivated sellers). I'd add Mark DeRosa to that list, and I'd also add Jeremy Hermida (he's likely to be traded and the Braves appear quite interested, all handedness issues aside).

Slash
06-23-2009, 11:45 PM
"Whats available for us that bat right handed ?"

I could free up my schedule through the end of October.

bravesfan22193
06-23-2009, 11:52 PM
can't be any worse than jeff in RF everyday

banditwolf
06-24-2009, 02:44 AM
There not going to sell Bobby Loves JV so he isnt going anywhere . I wish they wouldtrade KJ , KK and JF for somebody

banditwolf
06-24-2009, 02:48 AM
First, this doesn't need its own thread. We have the "2009 Trade Deadline Ideas" thread for stuff like this.

But as for your list, here's how I'd break it down:

Too expensive: Dye, Ordonez, Guillen, Holliday

Not available: Nady, A. Jones, Cruz, Rios, Barmes, Lee, Ludwick, Rowand

Not performing enough to be worth trading for: Young, Hart

That leaves Spilborghs, Ross, Willingham, and Kearns. All are viable options, with the caveat that we'd have to get some cash to take on Kearns (but I think the Nats are motivated sellers). I'd add Mark DeRosa to that list, and I'd also add Jeremy Hermida (he's likely to be traded and the Braves appear quite interested, all handedness issues aside).
We dont need Hermida he is lefthanded we already have too many of them .

Braves_Fan_RSD
06-24-2009, 02:50 AM
We dont need Hermida he is lefthanded we already have too many of them .

We may not need him as you say but the braves have expressed interest in him and seem to want him pretty bad so I would say he is a distinct possibility

banditwolf
06-24-2009, 02:57 AM
All we need are more left handed batters . I've looked up Hermida verus JF in batting Hermida verus righty's .308 verus leftys .203 now JF rightys .226 verus leftys .301 Hermida has struck out 54 times JF only 34 times Jeff's got a better fielding percentage at 1.000% Hermida's at 9.900% Jeff has 1 less RBI to Hermida .

Braves_Fan_RSD
06-24-2009, 03:07 AM
All we need are more left handed batters . I've looked up Hermida verus JF in batting Hermida verus righty's .308 verus leftys .203 now JF rightys .226 verus leftys .301 Hermida has struck out 54 times JF only 34 times Jeff's got a better fielding percentage at 1.000% Hermida's at 9.900% Jeff has 1 less RBI to Hermida .

While I agree he is not the player I would target, (I want Willingham), the braves have shown interest which makes him a credible trade target

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/morosi-on-penny-hermida-padres.html

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/odds-and-ends-francouer-draft.html

rtgthree
06-24-2009, 11:44 AM
Here's Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports:

The Brewers' quest for pitching could lead to renewed talks with the Braves, who in the past have targeted Brewers right fielder Corey Hart. The Braves would need to clear their own right fielder, Jeff Francoeur, before acquiring Hart, and no team is hot after Francoeur.

The problem for the Brewers in trading Hart is their lack of a suitable replacement. Still, the Braves are deep in pitching — and could get even deeper if right-hander Tim Hudson returns from Tommy John surgery in mid-August.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9723996/Nats-will-be-in-tough-battle-with-Boras

Eh, not sure how I feel about Hart. His 2008 season was awful, and he's not doing too much better this year...his walk rate is at a career high, but he's also striking out once every four at-bats. And his power continues to decline from its peak in 2007. He's not a horrible defender, but he's still below-average with a glove. Plus he's already into his arbitration years and he's about to get expensive. He would probably help, but I certainly wouldn't give up much to get him, and I might only do it if the Brewers agreed to take Francoeur as part of the return.

nps6724
06-24-2009, 11:47 AM
Trading Hart for Failcoeur is ********. He offers very little upgrade, if any.

littleknighty
06-24-2009, 12:15 PM
Id rather keep Frenchy than get Hart. Just not enough of an upgrade to give up pitching for.

runningcircles
06-24-2009, 02:00 PM
Here's Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9723996/Nats-will-be-in-tough-battle-with-Boras

Eh, not sure how I feel about Hart. His 2008 season was awful, and he's not doing too much better this year...his walk rate is at a career high, but he's also striking out once every four at-bats. And his power continues to decline from its peak in 2007. He's not a horrible defender, but he's still below-average with a glove. Plus he's already into his arbitration years and he's about to get expensive. He would probably help, but I certainly wouldn't give up much to get him, and I might only do it if the Brewers agreed to take Francoeur as part of the return.


Trading Hart for Failcoeur is ********. He offers very little upgrade, if any.


Id rather keep Frenchy than get Hart. Just not enough of an upgrade to give up pitching for.

Agreed. I want no part of Hart. Would rather stick with what we have. Willingham, on the other hand, is the perfect hitter for us to go get. I'll take his career .838 OPS and .364 wOBA any day of the week.

atl_braves_fan
06-24-2009, 02:25 PM
Agreed. I want no part of Hart. Would rather stick with what we have. Willingham, on the other hand, is the perfect hitter for us to go get. I'll take his career .838 OPS and .364 wOBA any day of the week.

Couldn't agree more ... I have been screaming for Willingham since the Marlins basically gave him away in the off-season.

Braves_Fan_RSD
06-24-2009, 06:24 PM
Very interesting line up change made by the Yankees tonight.

Melky Cabrera was in the original starting line up tonight, then Brian Cashman comes and holds a private meeting with Joe Girardi, during that meeting Swisher is called to the office and Melky was removed and Swisher was inserted. Could Melky be on the move??? Maybe coming here????? Probably after the series if it happened at all, but very rare for a player to be taken out of the original line up after the GM meets with the manager un less hes being moved, and I know the Braves have been high on him before. Plus with Nady coming back its the perfect time to move one of their OFs.

here is his stat line

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6347

atl_braves_fan
06-24-2009, 07:07 PM
Very interesting line up change made by the Yankees tonight.

Melky Cabrera was in the original starting line up tonight, then Brian Cashman comes and holds a private meeting with Joe Girardi, during that meeting Swisher is called to the office and Melky was removed and Swisher was inserted. Could Melky be on the move??? Maybe coming here????? Probably after the series if it happened at all, but very rare for a player to be taken out of the original line up after the GM meets with the manager un less hes being moved, and I know the Braves have been high on him before. Plus with Nady coming back its the perfect time to move one of their OFs.

here is his stat line

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6347

Melky would be a nice addition. Much better than Hart.

rtgthree
06-24-2009, 07:27 PM
Melky Cabrera was in the original starting line up tonight, then Brian Cashman comes and holds a private meeting with Joe Girardi, during that meeting Swisher is called to the office and Melky was removed and Swisher was inserted. Could Melky be on the move??? Maybe coming here????? Probably after the series if it happened at all, but very rare for a player to be taken out of the original line up after the GM meets with the manager un less hes being moved, and I know the Braves have been high on him before. Plus with Nady coming back its the perfect time to move one of their OFs.

Where did you see/hear this? Is there a link?

This is actually a fairly intriguing idea, since Cabrera is certainly a movable piece for the Yankees, and because the Braves have been reported to be interested. He's certainly a risky pick-up for the Braves, since he also started well last year before going into a horrific slump that ultimately led to his demotion. He's still a good defensive center fielder who has played all three OF spots well, but the Braves would have to be confident that Melky's increased power and patience this year are for real.

AustinTheGreat
06-24-2009, 10:13 PM
Hudson's option is for $12 million, but Vazquez is signed for 2010, at a cost of $11.5 million.

.5 is not much of a difference, i think we can live with trading vaz and picking up hudson option if hes healthy and looks good pitching. Just last year he was our ace.

Braves_Fan_RSD
06-24-2009, 10:22 PM
Where did you see/hear this? Is there a link?

This is actually a fairly intriguing idea, since Cabrera is certainly a movable piece for the Yankees, and because the Braves have been reported to be interested. He's certainly a risky pick-up for the Braves, since he also started well last year before going into a horrific slump that ultimately led to his demotion. He's still a good defensive center fielder who has played all three OF spots well, but the Braves would have to be confident that Melky's increased power and patience this year are for real.



UPDATE, 3:47 p.m.: Brian Cashman in the house.

UPDATE, 3:58 p.m.: Lineup taken diwn. Swisher just met with Girardi and Cashman behind closed doors. Machinations?

UPDATE, 4:04 p.m.: Melky out, Swisher in.

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/

rtgthree
06-24-2009, 10:24 PM
.5 is not much of a difference, i think we can live with trading vaz and picking up hudson option if hes healthy and looks good pitching. Just last year he was our ace.

I really can't name the last team with contention hopes that traded its best pitcher. Unless Vazquez brings a truly groundbreaking bounty in return, there's little incentive to trade him. There's also little incentive not to pick up Huddy's option. The payroll can fit both guys if we spend our money wisely.

Jon93405
06-24-2009, 10:32 PM
Javier Vazquez to the Angels

Brandon Wood to the White Sox

Jermaine Dye to the Braves

Braves_Fan_RSD
06-24-2009, 10:47 PM
Another reason why the rumors you hear about the Braves trading a starting pitcher during this season, while they’re still in the race, are most likely not coming from anyone connected to the team.

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/24/mac-and-mauer-two-of-best-ever/comment-page-7/#comments

rtgthree
06-24-2009, 10:49 PM
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/

Thanks. Cabrera played in tonight's game though, so it seems like a misinterpretation or a coincidence.


Javier Vazquez to the Angels

Brandon Wood to the White Sox

Jermaine Dye to the Braves

I'd rather have Wood.

Braves_Fan_RSD
06-24-2009, 10:57 PM
Thanks. Cabrera played in tonight's game though, so it seems like a misinterpretation or a coincidence.

Could be, or maybe negotiations fell through at the last minute, either way was just relaying what was written even the Yankee fans thought he had been traded when they heard it.


I'd rather have Wood.

I agree but it would have to be Wood + to get me to move Vaz

lavell12
06-25-2009, 12:55 AM
While I like Wood I'd rather have Dye the Braves have plenty young and unproven talent the Braves need a proven power hitter and Dye is the best option on the trade market. In order to afford Dye the Braves will have to trade Vazquez and you guys are right it has to be a three way deal.

jmtapia
06-25-2009, 03:20 AM
Id rather have Dye aswell...i think Wood plays 3B and Chipper is still there....

rtgthree
06-27-2009, 11:34 PM
Mark DeRosa traded to the Cardinals, so cross his name off the list.

Hard to evaluate the deal, frankly, since the Cards sent Cleveland relief pitcher Chris Perez and a reportedly "significant" player to be named later (which could easily be a high-round 2009 draft choice, since draftees aren't eligible to be traded until June of next year).

Jon93405
06-27-2009, 11:45 PM
Great move by the Cardinals... fits perfectly with the team since most of their players play multiple positions and they need some extra offense.

Looks like the Nationals and Rockies are the next best options of teams with surplus OF.

whodat1984
06-28-2009, 12:45 AM
other names to go along with willingham and hermida

would it be possible to get lopez and young from the d-backs. maybe a package of kj, brandon jones, and medlen. I like lopez as an upgrade of kj, and while young is sporadic, hes young, has upside and can;t do worse than frenchy, diaz, or anderson.

other name would be teahen from the royals. Everyone keeps saying they are high on frenchy, maybe send them him and someone else. teahen can play either second or outfield, and while his pop isn't great i think its better than what we have.

Jon93405
06-28-2009, 12:59 AM
After a disappointing 1-0 loss, I started looking around the league at the contenders to see who could use our spare parts and what we could get in return. First I looked at what we have:

Dominating RP/CP - Soriano/Gonzo
Domiating SP - Vazquez... NL ranks: K/1st, WHIP/2nd, IP/3rd, ERA/8th... that spells ACE.
OF bat - Anderson - .280... could serve an AL team well in the OF/DH.

Then I looked at contenders who could use our parts:

Angels

Who they could use:
Javier Vazquez: They have Matt Palmer and Sean O'Sullivan filling who are very unproven at the back end of their rotation. JV would instantly give them a great 1-4 and add some durability to a rotation that has had major injury problems this season.

Gonzo/Soriano: They lost Scott Shields for the season and their bullpen is struggling big time, even Fuentes and Speier, their top 2 men. Gonzo and/or Soriano would give them a huge boost for their bullpen which they've acknowledged is absolutely critical to fix for the playoffs when every inning is a big one.

Who we could get:

Brandon Wood : If we exited the trade deadline with Brandon Wood, I would be ecstatic. He hit .296 with 31 HR's in AAA last season, and is hitting .298 with 15 HR's this season. I'm not sure what to do with him, but if he can hit with power, he should find a place in the lineup. He'd also be a guy to take over 3B when Chipper retires if you can lock him up long term.

Sean Rodriguez - Hit .306 with 21HR's in AAA last season in only 248 AB's. Has hit 21 HR's this season in only 205 ABs. Plays 2B/SS and a little OF but is currently rotting on the bench for the Angels since Mike Scioscia prefers veterans over rookies. On a team that can't find a place for a top prospect like Brandon Wood, Rodriguez could use a change of scenery.

Texas Rangers

Who they could use:

JV: Matt Harrison and Derek Holland have ERA's over 6.00. Padilla and Feldman have been decent but they could use a SP like JV to give them a good 1-2 punch with Millwood for the playoffs.

Who we could use:

Hey they have a guy in AAA hitting .285 with 12HR's named Scott Thorm..... oh never mind. Justin Smoak would be a nice centerpiece, as would Feliz. They don't really have any expendable MLB ready bats though.

Seattle Mariners:

Who they could use:

Garrett Anderson: In all honesty, they would probably go after someone better, and right handed, but Wladamir Balentien has been bad if LF for them and Griffey and Anderson could split the LF/DH duties if no one else was made available and he was cheap enough/

Who we could use:

Whatever... if they save us the $1 million+ we would owe GA and allow us to get a look at Brandon Jones.

Milwakee Brewers:

Who they could use:

Javier Vazquez: They have an ace in Gallardo, but the rest is mediocre. Adding JV to that rotation would make guys like Suppan/Bush and Looper adequate back end of the rotation guys.

Who we could use:

Alicedes Escobar is a great prospect.


Pretty much any team could use Soriano/Gonzalez though, same for JV. If we dangled these guys on the trade market, we might be able to get some top talent in return. JV being under contract for another season would make him even more valuable.

littleknighty
06-28-2009, 09:17 AM
^ JV would be at this point the best pitcher available. I think we need to resign one of Soriano or Gonzo. If we sell, GA should be given away for anything. That said, I would only trade JV if it makes us better next year. Dont trade for down the road but for now.

HCo HERO
06-28-2009, 11:03 PM
At this point I would make JV untouchable unless we are absolutely blown away. He is ressurecting his career in Atlanta and will probably be the type of pitcher who signs an extention at a hometown discount price.

If anyone was to make it on the block it actually should be Derek lowe. He's not getting any younger and is still owed a ton of money. He is struggling right now but teams still love him and if there is a chance we could move him off the payroll we'd be dumb not to take it.

JV, JJ, and Hanson are the '09 aces of this staff. I would not at all be dissapointed if we move Lowe pick up some spects. Use his money to fill in our blackholes. 2010 staff of JV, JJ, Hanson, KK, and Medlen is still better than any other NL east staff.

And I would love to get B. Wood or S. Rod

CrippledRam
06-28-2009, 11:33 PM
No way we can move DLowe until at least winter. We'd never get another free agent to sign here.

banditwolf
06-29-2009, 12:00 AM
They need to trade Kelly and Kotchman and get a right handed hitter who can play 1st but better off 2nd . Tired of these guys being lazy off in the field .

uncblue2332
06-29-2009, 09:49 AM
Ok Kotch is a Gold Glove caliber player his defense is pretty good, one reason we got him instead of Kendry Morales. Number two no one in there right mind would give anything more than a low level A ball prospect with a low ceiling for KJ. The simple solution would be to bench KJ for Prado and bring Canizares back up and have a competition for 1st. That will light a fire for Kotch and he will get hot.

cntrft76
06-29-2009, 01:29 PM
No way we can move DLowe until at least winter. We'd never get another free agent to sign here.

Would the off season even be enough time since we signed him? 4 year contract, play him for a year, and then move him? That probably won't look too good for our front office either.

Also, there's not very many teams that are going to add 45 million dollars of contract due to Lowe. IMO

bravesfan22193
06-29-2009, 01:44 PM
We don't need to move Lowe, he's a dominant starter down the stretch and in big games, if we're in the playoff race he'll help big time. Don't freak out over 2 starts

Saltyfan
06-29-2009, 04:47 PM
We don't need to move Lowe, he's a dominant starter down the stretch and in big games, if we're in the playoff race he'll help big time. Don't freak out over 2 starts

Most people aren't freaking out. Most people are realizing we signed him to be an "Ace" and he has the worst ERA among our starters. We payed him to come in and be a top of the rotation guy and he's not. I am down if someone wants him. But honestly who is going to want a old pitcher with a mid 4 ERA. We are going to need him to turn it around b/c he is going no where.

CrippledRam
06-29-2009, 05:19 PM
Payed lol.


Jeff Blair of the Globe and Mail gets the sense that the Jays are ready to move Vernon Wells and/or Alex Rios for just about anything to free up enough money to keep Roy Halladay after next year.

Rios has a huge contract but is a stud. No chance

uncblue2332
06-29-2009, 05:21 PM
Most people aren't freaking out. Most people are realizing we signed him to be an "Ace" and he has the worst ERA among our starters. We payed him to come in and be a top of the rotation guy and he's not. I am down if someone wants him. But honestly who is going to want a old pitcher with a mid 4 ERA. We are going to need him to turn it around b/c he is going no where.

Once again we signed lowe knowing he isnt an ace but that he would either adapt to one or tommy hanson and jj would take their spots among the top of the rotation. Lowe stayed at his #2 position IMO. Before his start if you take out his start against BAL and NYY he has a sub 4 ERA and he is eating innings. Which is another thing we signed him for. All in all it was a good signing IMO. We have a top of the rotation guy for a couple of years and we didnt waste 36 mill on Oliver Perez instead like the mets did. It comes down to this..we were going to sign a free-agent big name pitcher that had some years left. Randy Wolf was too old. AJ Burnett...an injury-riddled pitcher who isnt doing good....Randy Johnson was too old....so it was down to Derek Lowe, Ben Sheets, and Ollie Perez. Ben Sheets got hurt and is always hurt so he is out. Now it comes down to a inconsistent but sometimes stud pitcher perez....vs sub 4 era #2 pitcher who is an innings eater ground ball specialist. I would rather pay Derek Lowe 4/$60 mill than having Oliver Perez in AAA with a 3/$36 mill contract wouldnt you???

banditwolf
06-30-2009, 02:23 AM
We have a couple of guys who can play 1st . And we had a real good 1st baseman before Kotchman was better then him . I agreed with Canizares but no B Joneshe isnt hitting anything in AAA no power why in the world would we bring him up . Hopefully Schaffer will be back up shortly . As long as we dont get anymore left handed batters .

oh-mylanta
06-30-2009, 11:28 AM
if you did alex rios for j. vazquez straight up ,there contracts pretty much cancel eachother out money wise for the rest of this season and all of next season.the question is whether atlanta would be willing to take on rios extra yrs on his contact after next year. if hes the stud everybody says he is then hes worth it becasue hes still relatively cheap compared to other guys.

vtgriff09
06-30-2009, 11:54 AM
yeah....JV for Rios straight up sounds like a good deal in theory. Would be a great deal to add a power hitting rh stick in the of that is a good defensive player as well.

PROBLEM IS: If the Blue Jays in-fact want to trade Rios...it's because they have become sellers. If they have become sellers, they will want to get some young, cheap talent for Rios...and not an older, expensive pitcher in JV. The reason the Jays are talking about coming sellers is so they can free up $$$$ to resign Halladay...acquiring JV for Rios would not allow them to free any money up at all.....it's just not a possiblity.

oh-mylanta
06-30-2009, 12:06 PM
if this deal was done the bluejays would get the pitching they need for this year if they decide to go for it and they dont take on any extra payroll, we would get the rf we need and the best part is the bluejays get out of rios contract and take on only the rest of j.v contract this year and next. j.vazquez is a free agent at the end of 2010 just like halladay so yes the bluejays would have j.v coming off the books and could use that money for halladay . its a perfect match in my opinion.

atl_braves_fan
06-30-2009, 12:32 PM
^^ the point that vtgriff09 is making is exactly why it will be nearly impossible to get equal value for Vazquez unless it is a three team deal. The Blue Jays aren't going to trade their starting RF and #3 hitter in order to gear up for a playoff run. Why would they create an everyday hole to fill a hole once every five days? And if they are not gearing up for a playoff run, what do they want with Vazquez - they would want prospects?

On a side note, their contracts don't match up at all ... not even close. JV makes $11.5MM and Alex Rios makes $6.4MM. How exactly does that cancel out?

I don't see a JV trade happening until the off-season if at all.

oh-mylanta
06-30-2009, 01:03 PM
there main thing is getting out of either wells contract or rios contract thats there main objective. playoffs aside, they would be swapping j.v. whose owed another 17 mill for the rest of this year and next . they would be getting rid of rios contract which he is owed roughly 75 mill over the length of his contract . like i said j.v. is a free agent in 2010 just like halladay so essentially freeing up enough money to resign halladay. now if they want to compete this year they need pitching not hitting . they could put j.v in there rotation and still compete but they would also be rid of rioss contract.

uncblue2332
06-30-2009, 02:19 PM
there main thing is getting out of either wells contract or rios contract thats there main objective. playoffs aside, they would be swapping j.v. whose owed another 17 mill for the rest of this year and next . they would be getting rid of rios contract which he is owed roughly 75 mill over the length of his contract . like i said j.v. is a free agent in 2010 just like halladay so essentially freeing up enough money to resign halladay. now if they want to compete this year they need pitching not hitting . they could put j.v in there rotation and still compete but they would also be rid of rioss contract.

Yea lets trade for a guy who is under contract until 2014 not only is he expensive but we dont need him for that long. We will have Schafer back up next year and Heyward will be ready by next June or July so we really only need a guy under contract through next year. Alex Rios hits 15 hr a year not exactly the power hitter we need and we have seen with mclouth that speed isnt inportant as long as bobby is our manager. We need to just concede the season...trade Javy to a contender for prospects and set up for a run next year. We can sign a free agent to a 1 year like Damon, Matsui, Crisp, Sheffield. We dont need a long term guy we have that in schafer and heyward.

oh-mylanta
06-30-2009, 02:30 PM
and your banking your future on jordan schafer and heyward when hes in his rookie year and you think your going to win that year? dont forget heyward when he does come up most likely isnt going to be able to carry a team . nobody knows what jordan schafer is going to be so yes i would go for a more established guy and when heyward is ready move rios into lf. all those back loaded years on rios contract is relatively cheap and by then chipper lowe hudson will come off the books.

atl_braves_fan
06-30-2009, 02:32 PM
there main thing is getting out of either wells contract or rios contract thats there main objective. playoffs aside, they would be swapping j.v. whose owed another 17 mill for the rest of this year and next . they would be getting rid of rios contract which he is owed roughly 75 mill over the length of his contract . like i said j.v. is a free agent in 2010 just like halladay so essentially freeing up enough money to resign halladay. now if they want to compete this year they need pitching not hitting . they could put j.v in there rotation and still compete but they would also be rid of rioss contract.

Where are you getting that? He signed a 6 year deal prior to last season that is worth $64 million. Regardless of accuracy of your numbers (or lack thereof) the trade doesn't make any sense for either the Braves or the Blue Jays. Also, as the Braves are doing a good job of proving, you need both pitching and hitting to compete - especially in the AL East.

uncblue2332
06-30-2009, 02:36 PM
and your banking your future on jordan schafer and heyward when hes in his rookie year and you think your going to win that year? dont forget heyward when he does come up most likely isnt going to be able to carry a team . nobody knows what jordan schafer is going to be so yes i would go for a more established guy and when heyward is ready move rios into lf. all those back loaded years on rios contract is relatively cheap and by then chipper lowe hudson will come off the books.

You obviously didnt comprehend what you just read from my post very well did you? Because correct me if im wrong but I said to sign a 1 year player and when schafer and heyward come up....who will still be there? that player we signed. Heyward doesnt have to be brilliant he can come in and platoon for all i care. We will be able to contend if we sign a vet FA who can come in for 1 year and when schafer and heyward have almost a full season under their belt that pickup will be a FA again. Heyward Schafer, and McLouth will be set in our OF and we will be fine. We dont need someone who is under contract through 2014. Let me stress thet 2014!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

atl_braves_fan
06-30-2009, 02:37 PM
and your banking your future on jordan schafer and heyward when hes in his rookie year and you think your going to win that year? dont forget heyward when he does come up most likely isnt going to be able to carry a team . nobody knows what jordan schafer is going to be so yes i would go for a more established guy and when heyward is ready move rios into lf. all those back loaded years on rios contract is relatively cheap and by then chipper lowe hudson will come off the books.

Absolutely ... at least more than a guy that is (i) 28, (ii) already expensive and (iii) hasn't shown the ability to produce with a career average line of:

HR RBI SB AVG OBP SLG OPS
16 77 22 .286 .336 .452 .788

The only thing he does even above average is steal bases. That line is basically what Jordan Schafer is projected to produce (without the RBI because Schafer will likely be a top of the order guy).

rtgthree
06-30-2009, 03:00 PM
The simple solution would be to bench KJ for Prado and bring Canizares back up and have a competition for 1st. That will light a fire for Kotch and he will get hot.

Uh, there is absolutely no way to say that calling up Canizares will cause Casey Kotchman to get hot.


Most people are realizing we signed him to be an "Ace" and he has the worst ERA among our starters. We payed him to come in and be a top of the rotation guy and he's not. I am down if someone wants him. But honestly who is going to want a old pitcher with a mid 4 ERA. We are going to need him to turn it around b/c he is going no where.

We signed him to be our #2 starter behind Javier Vazquez, and the only reason he's third-best is because Jair Jurrjens is pitching much better than expected. He's got an FIP of 3.62, so there's absolutely no reason to believe that he's going to be a "pitcher with a mid-4 ERA" for much longer.


if you did alex rios for j. vazquez straight up ,there contracts pretty much cancel eachother out money wise for the rest of this season and all of next season.the question is whether atlanta would be willing to take on rios extra yrs on his contact after next year. if hes the stud everybody says he is then hes worth it becasue hes still relatively cheap compared to other guys.

First, who's saying Rios is a "stud"? Second, he's not really that cheap. I would not trade Vazquez for Rios in a million years.

oh-mylanta
06-30-2009, 03:54 PM
i was counting his option year the club option for 2015. thats how i got 75mill . hes even cheaper than i thought lol.

as for me waiting for guys like schafer to produce at the mlb level im sick of it. wasnt k.j and frenchy supposed to turn this franchise around you see where we are 4yrs later ? absolutely nowhere.you cant rely on prospects to win a championship you need proven players mixed in. yes heyward is going to be a star but do you want to put all the pressure of winning on his shoulders from day one that he comes up ? i know i dont.

alot of people on these boards have said rios is a stud ive never really studied his game i was throwing out a trade proposal that i thought wouldnt be too bad for us and toronto.

when you have the pitching we have for the rest of this year and next we have too make a move to upgrade this team for now and the future , no rental players and no old guys on there last leg.

nps6724
06-30-2009, 03:56 PM
KJ wasn't expected to carry us anywhere from what I remember.

CrippledRam
06-30-2009, 04:01 PM
A 2012 OF of Rios-JS-Heyward would be nasty. He can go 30-30.

oh-mylanta
06-30-2009, 04:06 PM
kj was a top prospect coming up so yes him and frenchy and mccann were the face of the new braves and only mccann has panned out.

rtgthree
06-30-2009, 04:17 PM
i was counting his option year the club option for 2015. thats how i got 75mill . hes even cheaper than i thought lol.

With the option, you're looking at $72.2 million over six years; that's just north of $12 million per. Twelve million a year for a guy with a career .343 wOBA is not what you would call "cheap."


as for me waiting for guys like schafer to produce at the mlb level im sick of it. wasnt k.j and frenchy supposed to turn this franchise around you see where we are 4yrs later ? absolutely nowhere.you cant rely on prospects to win a championship you need proven players mixed in. yes heyward is going to be a star but do you want to put all the pressure of winning on his shoulders from day one that he comes up ? i know i dont.

Impatience is how bad decisions get made. The only people who thought Francoeur and Johnson were going to "turn the franchise around" were the people who thought Frenchy was for real in 2005. Johnson can be a critical piece of the next contending Braves team, and Francoeur...well, he was always overrated (read: he never had plate discipline). You absolutely do need proven players, which is why we got Nate McLouth to join Brian McCann, Chipper Jones, Yunel Escobar, et al.


alot of people on these boards have said rios is a stud ive never really studied his game

Study first, post second.

oh-mylanta
06-30-2009, 04:27 PM
i didnt know i had to study scouting tape on a player to throw out a trade idea on a website forum. please.

rtgthree
06-30-2009, 04:31 PM
i didnt know i had to study scouting tape on a player to throw out a trade idea on a website forum. please.

No one's saying you do. But if you choose not to do any homework, don't be surprised or offended or defensive when we tell you you're wrong. Taking a ten-second look at his FanGraphs page wouldn't kill you, and it would save you a helluva lot of grief.

CrippledRam
06-30-2009, 04:41 PM
Scouting Report:

Assets:

His quick swing produces line drives all over the field, and his great speed turns doubles into triples. Has emerging power and a strong arm in right field.

Flaws:
Needs to improve his overall consistency, since he falls into deep batting ruts over the course of the season. Isn't patient enough at the plate.

Career potential:

A budding star right-fielder.


He's struggling a bit this year due to a little bad luck.

oh-mylanta
06-30-2009, 04:44 PM
please you have to be kidding me i did the homework . look again with 3 mill left on this year what do you get i get 75.2 million left on his contract . so im not surprised or offended but dont jump down peoples throat when you dont even know what im talking about or your talking about.

jwn0303
06-30-2009, 04:47 PM
please you have to be kidding me i did the homework . look again with 3 mill left on this year what do you get i get 75.2 million left on his contract . so im not surprised or offended but dont jump down peoples throat when you dont even know what im talking about or your talking about.

What does this have to do with anything. You are stating his contract. That's not homework. That's merely taking a trip to http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/toronto-blue-jays_05.html.

rtgthree
06-30-2009, 05:00 PM
Career potential:

A budding star right-fielder.


He's struggling a bit this year due to a little bad luck.

Those TSN.ca scouting reports are awful. Hell, Jeff Francoeur is still "a phenom. Few in baseball possess his combination of size, strength, power and ability to make contact. Owns one of the best outfield arms in baseball." Don't use those.

And what bad luck are you talking about?


please you have to be kidding me i did the homework . look again with 3 mill left on this year what do you get i get 75.2 million left on his contract . so im not surprised or offended but dont jump down peoples throat when you dont even know what im talking about or your talking about.

First, there's a lot more to a player than just his contract, and second, YOU were the one who said you hadn't really studied his performance.

oh-mylanta
06-30-2009, 05:01 PM
i dont have to go to fangraphs to state on a forum who i think would be a good trade candidate. i look at his normal stats im not a believer in those overblown stats like babip. sorry pal.

jwn0303
06-30-2009, 05:02 PM
Those TSN.ca scouting reports are awful. Hell, Jeff Francoeur is still "a phenom. Few in baseball possess his combination of size, strength, power and ability to make contact. Owns one of the best outfield arms in baseball." Don't use those.

And what bad luck are you talking about?



First, there's a lot more to a player than just his contract, and second, YOU were the one who said you hadn't really studied his performance.

I know in one of the luck indicators he's right at about league average with a .291 BABIP if I'm not mistaken.

atl_braves_fan
06-30-2009, 05:04 PM
^^ his "normal stats" are not that good and certainly are not worth his contract. Isn't that why the Blue Jays don't want him any more anyway?

jwn0303
06-30-2009, 05:06 PM
^^ his "normal stats" are not that good and certainly are not worth his contract. Isn't that why the Blue Jays don't want him any more anyway?

Adding this with the fact that you suggested dealing Javy for him. Just doesn't make sense on any front.

rtgthree
06-30-2009, 05:11 PM
i dont have to go to fangraphs to state on a forum who i think would be a good trade candidate.

True. You can "state" whatever you want. But you have to go to FanGraphs to prove that Player X would be a good trade candidate (because in order to properly refute my position, you have to be able to break down my supporting evidence).

For the umpteenth time, you're free to do whatever you want. Just understand that we can and will use better stats to discredit your point, which is what we're doing right now (although BABIP doesn't play into this discussion, since Rios isn't really lucky or unlucky). Essentially, wOBA just encapsulates all those "normal stats" like homers and batting average and strikeouts into a single, far more useful number. But yeah, you can post and think whatever you want...but know that without doing a little research, you're going to be helpless to win any potential debates.

oh-mylanta
06-30-2009, 07:01 PM
like i said i wasnt trying to win any debates i was simply stating who i personally thought would make a good trade for the braves . you guys disagreed and im fine with that. very simple.

Jon93405
06-30-2009, 09:37 PM
*cough* Willingham *cough*

Jon93405
06-30-2009, 09:39 PM
Nats traded for Nyjer Morgan.

Dunn/Dukes/Kearns/Willingham/Morgan/Harris all on their team...

uncblue2332
06-30-2009, 09:39 PM
*cough* willingham *cough*

im not afraid to say it willingham!!!! Willingham!!!!

NBA_Starter
06-30-2009, 10:39 PM
KJ and GA for Juan Pierre LoL! :clap:

CrippledRam
06-30-2009, 11:14 PM
Those TSN.ca scouting reports are awful. Hell, Jeff Francoeur is still "a phenom. Few in baseball possess his combination of size, strength, power and ability to make contact. Owns one of the best outfield arms in baseball." Don't use those.

And what bad luck are you talking about?


I messed up and figured his exBABIP on his career ld% not '09.



^^ his "normal stats" are not that good and certainly are not worth his contract. Isn't that why the Blue Jays don't want him any more anyway?

They aren't trying to dump him for performance; they are trying to dump him so they don't lose Ray Halladay.

HCo HERO
06-30-2009, 11:14 PM
[QUOTE=rtgthree;9965256]We signed him to be our #2 starter behind Javier Vazquez [QUOTE]


Link? He was our season opening day starter and our home opener. In this economy you dont pay 4yrs/60 mil to be a #2. First elogical post I caught from you RTG...thanks!

rtgthree
06-30-2009, 11:28 PM
Link? He was our season opening day starter and our home opener. In this economy you dont pay 4yrs/60 mil to be a #2. First elogical post I caught from you RTG...thanks!

The only link I have is to several of my own posts, where I said from the very start that Derek Lowe wouldn't be the Braves' best starter this year, and that Javier Vazquez would be. I don't frankly care who started when...Vazquez always was, and still is, the superior pitcher. In this or any economy, $15 million per year is an absolute bargain for a workhorse #2 starter who is good enough to be #1 for a whole lot of teams.

So I'm not sure what "elogical" means, but my post certainly wasn't.

bravesfan22193
06-30-2009, 11:31 PM
It's illogical not elogical, but I do agree I think the Braves signed Lowe thinking he would slide in front of Javy but I don't think they are in the least surprised that Javy is having the better year. Still when we get in the playoffs Derek is the big game pitcher

HCo HERO
07-01-2009, 12:34 AM
The only link I have is to several of my own posts, where I said from the very start that Derek Lowe wouldn't be the Braves' best starter this year, and that Javier Vazquez would be. I don't frankly care who started when...Vazquez always was, and still is, the superior pitcher. In this or any economy, $15 million per year is an absolute bargain for a workhorse #2 starter who is good enough to be #1 for a whole lot of teams.

So I'm not sure what "elogical" means, but my post certainly wasn't.


You stated we signed him to be a number two behind Javier Vazquez. Not I think we signed. Just doing to you what you and other posters do to some. Like you always say if your going to state something as fact have a link to back it up, if it is an opinion make sure you state it is an opinion. Regardless of what you say we DID NOT sign to be our 2-3 we signed him to be our ace.

"This really gives us that top-of-the-rotation starting pitcher that we've been looking for all winter," general manager Frank Wren said.

Link: http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_142694.asp

Later on Chipper says he is our Ace as well.


Again I'll ask for a link saying that 15 mil is a bargain for a #2 pitcher. Only the NY Yankees have a #2 pitcher making over 15 mil...The rest aren't even close. Just looking at some of the number two salaries I guarantee #2 avg salary is well under 10 mil.

HCo HERO
07-01-2009, 12:45 AM
I still Think IMO that a D. Lowe trade (only if we are out of contention) the best thing for our future. He's not getting younger or cheaper. We now know JV can be our ace for way less commitment in '09.

If we were to trade with the rangers I think us taking Padilla's remaining '09 salary would entice them to give us more/better spects. Maybe a Derek Holland, Engel Beltre, and Teagarden/Ramirez. Which we could then flip Tea/Max and possibly others(Yunel) to BOSOX for some good spects.

jmtapia
07-01-2009, 03:37 AM
if we were to deal Lowe id rather do straight swap for someone like Davis or Cruz...

uncblue2332
07-01-2009, 10:01 AM
I still Think IMO that a D. Lowe trade (only if we are out of contention) the best thing for our future. He's not getting younger or cheaper. We now know JV can be our ace for way less commitment in '09.

If we were to trade with the rangers I think us taking Padilla's remaining '09 salary would entice them to give us more/better spects. Maybe a Derek Holland, Engel Beltre, and Teagarden/Ramirez. Which we could then flip Tea/Max and possibly others(Yunel) to BOSOX for some good spects.

We had to sign a FA pitcher this offseason so would you rather have Lowe or Perez....exactly so deal with Lowe and Thank God we dont have Perez.

#2s around the league...

Red Sox- Dice-K makes a little over 8 but add in the extra 50 mill to his contract for the posting fee and he makes more than Lowe....
Cubs- Ted Lilly -13 mill and their 4 and 5 starters harden and dempster make 7 and 9 respectively
Reds- Arroyo makes 10 mill
Rockies-Marquis 10 mill
Royals- Gil Meche 11.4 mill
Angels-Kelvim Escobar 10 mill
Mets- Oliver Perez 12 mill
Yanks- AJ Burnett- 16.5 mill
Giants- Zito 18.5 mill
Mariners-Carlos Silva 12 mill Washburn 10 mill Miguel Bastita 10 mill
Cards- Carpenter 13 mill
Rangers Padilla 12 mill

We arent the only team that spends money on pitching and guess what it paid off, PUN INTENDED!. We have one of the best rotations in the majors, with great depth. And all the teams that werent mentioned have young guys who are under their first 6 years so when they get that service time they will be making that much also. So before you say teams arent paying that much for a #2 like we are make sure your right. Because in this instance you are way way wrong

And of those guys I would take derek lowe over all of them wouldnt you?

ATL2010
07-01-2009, 01:03 PM
I think we should try and trade Gonzo plus maybe Medlen or another minor league pitcher for an OF bat because i dont think we resign Gonzo anyway plus id rather resign Soriano and someone could use Gonzo in their bullpen but thats just my opinion

HCo HERO
07-01-2009, 02:04 PM
We had to sign a FA pitcher this offseason so would you rather have Lowe or Perez....exactly so deal with Lowe and Thank God we dont have Perez.

#2s around the league...

Red Sox- Dice-K makes a little over 8 but add in the extra 50 mill to his contract for the posting fee and he makes more than Lowe....
Cubs- Ted Lilly -13 mill and their 4 and 5 starters harden and dempster make 7 and 9 respectively
Reds- Arroyo makes 10 mill
Rockies-Marquis 10 mill
Royals- Gil Meche 11.4 mill
Angels-Kelvim Escobar 10 mill
Mets- Oliver Perez 12 mill
Yanks- AJ Burnett- 16.5 mill
Giants- Zito 18.5 mill
Mariners-Carlos Silva 12 mill Washburn 10 mill Miguel Bastita 10 mill
Cards- Carpenter 13 mill
Rangers Padilla 12 mill

We arent the only team that spends money on pitching and guess what it paid off, PUN INTENDED!. We have one of the best rotations in the majors, with great depth. And all the teams that werent mentioned have young guys who are under their first 6 years so when they get that service time they will be making that much also. So before you say teams arent paying that much for a #2 like we are make sure your right. Because in this instance you are way way wrong
And of those guys I would take derek lowe over all of them wouldnt you?




First did you go through teams rotations and pick the priciest non ace on the team and assume they were the #2 starter?

Who's the Red's #2 Edinson Volquez or Arroyo
Who's the Angel's #2 Joe Saunders or Kelvin Escobar
And if you seriously think Carlos silva is a #2 on any team then we should discredit anything you post from here on out.

Barry Zito the Giants #2....wow...What Happened to Matt Cain

Again if your just going to pick the highest salaries you can find and post them as fact we should all discredit you.

And if we weren't to sign Lowe who is to say we would've signed Perez. You can ask would you rather have Lowe or Burnett that's more comparable. I'm not doubting Lowe's Quality, I'm saying we didnt sign him to be a #2, and him having 3 1/2 years on his contract at 15 mill per and being 36, isn't the best thing for our future.

So in closing the twelve players you named 4 are questionable which leaves you with 8. 1 (AJ) makes over 15 and the rest fall well short. not to mention the other 22 teams whose ACTUAL #2 don't even crack 5-6mil. It's not a Bargain if the average #2 makes closer to 7-8 mil

So in this made up post you created you are way way wrong!!!

uncblue2332
07-01-2009, 02:07 PM
First did you go through teams rotations and pick the priciest non ace on the team and assume they were the #2 starter?

Who's the Red's #2 Edinson Volquez or Arroyo
Who's the Angel's #2 Joe Saunders or Kelvin Escobar
And if you seriously think Carlos silva is a #2 on any team then we should discredit anything you post from here on out.

Barry Zito the Giants #2....wow...What Happened to Matt Cain

Again if your just going to pick the highest salaries you can find and post them as fact we should all discredit you.

And if we weren't to sign Lowe who is to say we would've signed Perez. You can ask would you rather have Lowe or Burnett that's more comparable. I'm not doubting Lowe's Quality, I'm saying we didnt sign him to be a #2, and him having 3 1/2 years on his contract at 15 mill per and being 36, isn't the best thing for our future.

So in closing the twelve players you named 4 are questionable which leaves you with 8. 1 (AJ) makes over 15 and the rest fall well short. not to mention the other 22 teams whose ACTUAL #2 don't even crack 5-6mil.

So in this made up post you created you are way way wrong!!!

You cant debunk zito because he was signed to be an ace so you have to include him and ok maybe we dont get perez. Would you rather have AJ Burnett at 86 mill or Derek Lowe at 60 mill??

ATL2010
07-01-2009, 02:10 PM
Kelly Johnson for Ben Zobrist

atl_braves_fan
07-01-2009, 02:23 PM
Kelly Johnson for Ben Zobrist

While we are at it, let's throw in Jo Jo Reyes and Garret Anderson for James Shields and Carl Crawford :rolleyes:

rtgthree
07-01-2009, 02:34 PM
You stated we signed him to be a number two behind Javier Vazquez. Not I think we signed. Just doing to you what you and other posters do to some. Like you always say if your going to state something as fact have a link to back it up, if it is an opinion make sure you state it is an opinion. Regardless of what you say we DID NOT sign to be our 2-3 we signed him to be our ace.

What are you even arguing here? We signed him to be a top-of-the-rotation pitcher, as Wren states. Chipper states that Lowe is an ace-caliber pitcher, which he is. I think, and always thought, that Vazquez would be better than Lowe...I still fail to see what the problem is with my point here. What difference does it make whether we signed him to be #1 or #2...he is #2, and he's more than earning his salary.


Again I'll ask for a link saying that 15 mil is a bargain for a #2 pitcher. Only the NY Yankees have a #2 pitcher making over 15 mil...The rest aren't even close. Just looking at some of the number two salaries I guarantee #2 avg salary is well under 10 mil.

Yeah, but the average salary of a #2 starter today isn't an accurate measure of how much it costs to sign one, since many #2 starters were signed to contracts a long time ago, and prices have inflated consistently over the years. Either way, a win is worth $3-4 million on the free-agent market, and Lowe has already been worth about two WAR, so he's well on his way to being worth $15 million or more.


I still Think IMO that a D. Lowe trade (only if we are out of contention) the best thing for our future. He's not getting younger or cheaper.

If you find a guy that IS getting younger or cheaper, let me know. We could use him. That's a pointless comment.

ATL2010
07-01-2009, 02:37 PM
While we are at it, let's throw in Jo Jo Reyes and Garret Anderson for James Shields and Carl Crawford


Im guessing that my proposal was stupid but i thought Zobrist was their utility man and i know he's having a good year and all but would it really take that much to get him? I dont know but i would think KJ would be good enough to get Zobrist he could play OF everyday for us and KJ could play 2b everday for them till iwamurra (not spelled right) gets back and i think he's out for the year

rtgthree
07-01-2009, 02:45 PM
Im guessing that my proposal was stupid but i thought Zobrist was their utility man and i know he's having a good year and all but would it really take that much to get him? I dont know but i would think KJ would be good enough to get Zobrist he could play OF everyday for us and KJ could play 2b everday for them till iwamurra (not spelled right) gets back and i think he's out for the year

Not even close, sorry. Zobrist is one of the best hitters in the AL so far this year; it's going to take a TON to pry him from the Rays.

atl_braves_fan
07-01-2009, 03:15 PM
Im guessing that my proposal was stupid but i thought Zobrist was their utility man and i know he's having a good year and all but would it really take that much to get him? I dont know but i would think KJ would be good enough to get Zobrist he could play OF everyday for us and KJ could play 2b everday for them till iwamurra (not spelled right) gets back and i think he's out for the year

I honestly don't think that they will trade Zobrist for anything that we offer (even top prospects). They went to the world series last year and they are looking to win now - we obviously don't have anything that helps them do that more than Zobrist would.

mickmurph37
07-01-2009, 03:25 PM
might sound crazy but.....jeff francouer and kelly johnson to the reds for brandon phillips, maybe add a prospect to the deal i dont know, and yes this will give us a hole in right but we'll have a huge upgrade at second, and this might open the door for willingham, the one everyone wants so bad

CrippledRam
07-01-2009, 03:38 PM
Phillips is their franchise player and probably the 2nd best 2B in the Nl

Saltyfan
07-01-2009, 04:33 PM
A worthless right handed bat is now on the market. Craig Monroe has been realesed. I have got this effed up feeling our FO is going to look at him. Maybe not sign him but at least look.

nps6724
07-01-2009, 04:35 PM
Only 3 HR, 2 against us in April. Horrible.

mgcslugger33
07-01-2009, 05:23 PM
Yunel For Elsbury

Vasquez Frenchy for Cruz

Schafer Gonzo kj for Zobrist

CrippledRam
07-01-2009, 05:35 PM
Ellsbury blows

Saltyfan
07-01-2009, 05:40 PM
Yunel For Elsbury

Vasquez Frenchy for Cruz

Schafer Gonzo kj for Zobrist

So we lose a top of the rotation guy, Top SS, Top Prospect, a struggling 2b, and frenchy for a young CF with speed, A power Corner Bad, and a power Utility guy. Hey these deals aren't to bad. Although we would get more for Yunel.
Elsbury>Schafer at this point. Career?
Zobrist>KJ, but not Yunel and KJ
Cruz>>Frenchy

Although we still lose JV, Yunel and Gonzo, Thesse deals are not that bad of ideals. Giving up that much talent to make a run this year is dificult though. We would really miss Gonzo in the playoffs.

atl_braves_fan
07-01-2009, 08:13 PM
So we lose a top of the rotation guy, Top SS, Top Prospect, a struggling 2b, and frenchy for a young CF with speed, A power Corner Bad, and a power Utility guy. Hey these deals aren't to bad. Although we would get more for Yunel.
Elsbury>Schafer at this point. Career?
Zobrist>KJ, but not Yunel and KJ
Cruz>>Frenchy

Although we still lose JV, Yunel and Gonzo, Thesse deals are not that bad of ideals. Giving up that much talent to make a run this year is dificult though. We would really miss Gonzo in the playoffs.

The Rangers and Rays get absolutely killed in those trade ideas (no "L" by the way). In fact, I really don't see any situation (short of Heyward or Hanson) where either Nelson Cruz or Zobrist get traded. How many times and in how many different iterations are we going to suggest them?

jwn0303
07-01-2009, 08:55 PM
to say that the rangers get killed in that trade is laughable imo.. they get an ace.. which is something they could use out there

CrippledRam
07-01-2009, 08:59 PM
JV can't be dealt to TX w/o his permission. He has a trade clause blocking trades to the AL or NL West.

A_Brave_Pack
07-01-2009, 09:03 PM
JV can't be dealt to TX w/o his permission. He has a trade clause blocking trades to the AL or NL West.

Isn't that funny how players have quirky limited no-trade clauses? I always laugh when I hear that Player X has a NTC to BOS, TOR, TB, and KC. Makes me wonder what happened in their life that they hate certain cities...

Though with JV, unless I am mistaken, his NTC bias against the West is that he likes to be closer to his family, who live closer to the East coast?

atl_braves_fan
07-01-2009, 09:29 PM
to say that the rangers get killed in that trade is laughable imo.. they get an ace.. which is something they could use out there

Well, let's break it down...

Name the outfielders on their team that would lose playing time to Frenchy. Let me help you, there aren't any. That means they would be taking on his salary for nothing. Vazquez may or may not be pitching like an ace right now, but remember when he pitched in the AL last year? His ERA was almost 5 (his era+ was a slightly below average 98 - his career is only a slightly above average 106). Considering that fact,how will he pitch in Arlington? Probably not very ace-like. Just for good measure, add in the fact that JV makes over $11 million and the Rangers are struggling financially.

Now look at the other side. Nelson Cruz makes about $400K and is under team control for a few more years. Sure, he is a late bloomer but he is on pace to hit more than 40 homers and drive in more than 100. Also, he plays a pretty good right field with a UZR150 of 15.4.

To recap, you would be asking a team to give up a relatively young, good fielding, 40 home run hitter that makes around the league minimum and is under control for a few more years in exchange for (i) a pitcher that's older, expensive, and probably will be average to slightly above average for the future and (ii) a hitter that's approx $2 million worth of dead weight.

Would you make that trade?

HCo HERO
07-01-2009, 11:04 PM
3 way trade:

BoSox get Kotchman

Pirates get Bard

Braves get Adam Laroche (1/2 year left n deal, if he performs try a 2 yr extention)and a mid level spec from BoSox or Pirates

Prado starting and Diaz/Blanco platoon possibly in RF unless we get Willingham. Obviously something with french would have to happen.

Kotch's glove is a 10 but Laroche isn't to shabby, not to mention the power he brings.

McClouth CF
Prado 2B
Chip 3B
Mac C
Yunel SS
Laroche 1B
GA LF (Diaz/Blanco can spell him 1-2 days a week)
Diaz/Blanco

Slash
07-01-2009, 11:27 PM
3 way trade:

BoSox get Kotchman

That would definitely be a trade up for them. That trade also allows them to get rid of one of those liabilities at first; either Youkilis or Ortiz.

HCo HERO
07-01-2009, 11:31 PM
That would definitely be a trade up for them. That trade also allows them to get rid of one of those liabilities at first; either Youkilis or Ortiz.

Lowell is on the DL for an extended period of time, so Youk moves to third and Ortiz is a DH, so do your research before you dish out the sarcasim.

bravesfan22193
07-02-2009, 12:35 AM
Since it seems everybody is throwing out ideas, i thought i'd put this out out there. Obviously very unlikely that 4 teams come together to make a deal but it makes sense for all involved imo and I think each team comes away feeling good, not to mention most of these players have been rumored to be in trade discussions so it's not like i'm just pulling names out of a hat. Braves offense wouldn't be a joke anymore either.
4 team deal
Bos: Nick Johnson, Yunel Escobar, Corey Hart
Atl: Dunn (partially covered), Willingham, Drew (salary covered for 2009), Bard, Hardy
Mil: Penny, prospect (atl) and/or diaz
Was: Schafer, Frenchy, Kotchman, Hicks, prospect (mil)

1. McLouth CF
2. JD Drew RF
3. Chipper Jones 3B
4. Brian McCann C
5. Adam Dunn 1B
6. JJ Hardy SS
7. Josh Willingham LF
8. Prado/KJ 2B