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Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 03:14 AM
Winning the rings but not being Mvp?


Is a fact, not always the best player of the team that wins makes the best finals and gets Mvp, i mean James Worhty is not in the same league that Magic but he was Mvp in the finals, Parker is no Duncan and yet he got the Mvp.


Ok here it is

lakers up 3-1

Kobe made a hell of a good game 1.

since then he has SHot a lot, and shot very bad with a very bad FG%

He singlehandedly lost game 3 by making too many ill shots at the last minutes and losing TWICE the ball in the last and defining moments.


at the same time

Pau, is shooting a very nice fg%, he is holding his own against Dwight howard, siupossedly the best Center in the game and leaving Dwigts sscore numbers WAYYY bellow than usual.

add that he Took Lakers to Overtime in Game 2 and then played like a demon and hit the key buckets to secure the 2-0

Then again in game 4, he scores a very improtant basket when they are 5 under Fisher makes the clutch they go into overtime and he finishes the magic with two consecutive incredible plays.



So, you must at least recognise there is a slight posibility tht Pau could get the Mvp.


How wouldk kobe react??

Woudl he threaten Buss about opting pout fi they dont trade away pau?


Just cheer pau but inside start his revenge plan and how to get to be the hero next time?


Or just be mature and enjoy the Ring he LEAD the team to during a whole season .

eso
06-12-2009, 03:17 AM
nice post..... but the NBA is a marketing machine so not gonna happen Kobe MVP....
but i personaly think he is mature enough to deal with it just to egotistical to deal with it...

madiaz3
06-12-2009, 03:18 AM
There is no chance Pau will get the MVP. In actuality, he simply has not been their most valuable player, simple as that. You can make the claim he hit the dagger in game 2 but what I remember more was the pass. Kobe has only shot poorly in game 4, which was a win, and in any case, Fisher would get more credit for Game 4 than Pau anyway if you want to give it to someone that isn't Kobe.

On the hypothetical if Pau was playing well enough to be Finals MVP, then yes, but the fact is, he hasn't.

Would he opt out unless Pau was traded? Is this a joke thread?

stawka
06-12-2009, 03:23 AM
LOL dude you need to get off Gasol's nuts. EVERY thread you start is about Gasol.

Kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gasol.

In this series, Ariza>Gasol.


If he played like an MVP (30/15/7) then he would get the MVP because Stern would love an International player to be named Finals MVP (Parker doesn't count cause he's on the Spurs).

Lakersfan2483
06-12-2009, 03:24 AM
Kobe's shooting pct. has been down somewhat, but he's making plays and creating for his teammates. Tonight's game was his 6th straight game with 8 or more assists and he's averaging 33 points a game and 5.5 rebounds, 8apg per game, I would say that's finals mvp worthy. He's making the critical plays down the stretch, in tonight's game he made a great play in terms of going to the basket and finding Pau for the dunk to cut the lead to 3. He also hit the open man and made the game winning assist to Fisher by drawing the double team., that's what MVP's do. It's not all about pts. and shooting pcts...

Vincent
06-12-2009, 03:27 AM
Is this guy serious?

Did you watch the first quarter?

Kobe scored 14 of the first 20 Lakers points. He was the sole reason they were even in the game for the first 3 quarters.

Paul Gasol made some nice plays down the stretch, but Kobe was ridiculous when he needed to be. I can't even take this thread seriously.

kblo247
06-12-2009, 03:29 AM
Pau has been the fourth most important player on his team

1. Kobe
2. Odom
3. Ariza

He is basically even with Fisher as 4th most important guy and after tonight you can put him behind Derek

Besides, 33ppg, 8apg, 5.5rpg, 1.75spg, 1bpg are you honestly saying that isn't FMVP worthy?

dos132
06-12-2009, 03:30 AM
yeah Kobe deserves to be the finals MVP... for his hard work that lead the lakers again into the finals....

USMCLaker
06-12-2009, 03:33 AM
Sorry Hellcrooner asking PSD poster to be mature is like asking dogs in heat not to hump your leg or anything else they see.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 03:39 AM
anybody cares to explain me how many points per game has Dwight been getting in regular season and the first three series and how many is he getting THIS SERIES?

Is that not Valuable???

eso
06-12-2009, 03:39 AM
Sorry Hellcrooner asking PSD poster to be mature is like asking dogs in heat not to hump your leg or anything else they see.

i seriously fell of my seat and bumped my head after reading that hahahahaha bye of to ER to try and stop the bleeding..

Lakersfan2483
06-12-2009, 03:40 AM
Winning the rings but not being Mvp?


Is a fact, not always the best player of the team that wins makes the best finals and gets Mvp, i mean James Worhty is not in the same league that Magic but he was Mvp in the finals, Parker is no Duncan and yet he got the Mvp.


Ok here it is

lakers up 3-1

Kobe made a hell of a good game 1.

since then he has SHot a lot, and shot very bad with a very bad FG%

He singlehandedly lost game 3 by making too many ill shots at the last minutes and losing TWICE the ball in the last and defining moments.


at the same time

Pau, is shooting a very nice fg%, he is holding his own against Dwight howard, siupossedly the best Center in the game and leaving Dwigts sscore numbers WAYYY bellow than usual.

add that he Took Lakers to Overtime in Game 2 and then played like a demon and hit the key buckets to secure the 2-0

Then again in game 4, he scores a very improtant basket when they are 5 under Fisher makes the clutch they go into overtime and he finishes the magic with two consecutive incredible plays.



So, you must at least recognise there is a slight posibility tht Pau could get the Mvp.


How wouldk kobe react??

Woudl he threaten Buss about opting pout fi they dont trade away pau?


Just cheer pau but inside start his revenge plan and how to get to be the hero next time?


Or just be mature and enjoy the Ring he LEAD the team to during a whole season .

I know you are a lakers fan and you dislike Kobe, but disregard the fact that you don't like him. How can a guy not win a Finals MVP when he's leading his team to victory and making plays down the stretch in close games? Kobe's numbers alone don't tell the entire story, he's clearly been the finals MVP. How can someone who is averaging 33ppg, 8apg, and 5rpg not win the finals MVP? It's true his shooting pct. is down, but he's still making plays down the stretch of ball games and trusting his teammates. He was the guy that found Fisher for the game winner. In Game 2, he was the guy that found Gasol for the and 1 that put the lakers up for good. He kept LA in the game in both games 3 and 4 in the 1st half and created for his teammates tonight.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 03:41 AM
is that why Pau is 0-12 in the playoffs before joining up with Kobe


is that why kobe was one year out of the playoffs and then two years gone fishing in the first before joining up with Pau?

USMCLaker
06-12-2009, 03:42 AM
i seriously fell of my seat and bumped my head after reading that hahahahaha bye of to ER to try and stop the bleeding..

Sorry man.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 03:46 AM
also people should READ the posts before moking

1 i give the actual reasons WHY it could happen

2 since when a "SLIGHT CHANCE" means that im saying Kobe does not deserve it or, Pau should win it???

3 Since when it is the same to ask WOULD ? or WILL? first is a conditional/hypotetical second is a Affirmative questin.

Lakersfan2483
06-12-2009, 03:48 AM
is that why kobe was one year out of the playoffs and then two years gone fishing in the first before joining up with Pau?

Every great player (Kobe) needs a great no. 2 guy (Gasol) and both guys have been excellent for one another, just enjoy it. No one is discrediting what Gasol has meant to this team. We have been to 2 NBA finals with him and are on the verge of a title with him being on the team. He's been a great 2nd option for the Lakers.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 03:48 AM
Pau has been the fourth most important player on his team

1. Kobe
2. Odom
3. Ariza

He is basically even with Fisher as 4th most important guy and after tonight you can put him behind Derek

Besides, 33ppg, 8apg, 5.5rpg, 1.75spg, 1bpg are you honestly saying that isn't FMVP worthy?
That goes further down that Bias or homerism thats purely being a MONGOLOID.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 03:50 AM
Every great player (Kobe) and a great no. 2 guy (Gasol) and both guys have been excellent for one another, just enjoy it. No one is discrediting what Gasol has meant to this team. We have been to 2 NBA finals with him and are on the verge of a title with him being on the team. He's been a great 2nd option for the Lakers.
tell that to the moron saying he is the fourth most important on this finals....

abe_froman
06-12-2009, 03:51 AM
is he mature enough? i dunno,i think he'd be fine in public at first(he wants the ring that badly)...but by late july he'd start *****ing about not getting it



but they arent going to pass him over for it

eso
06-12-2009, 03:52 AM
Sorry man

no prob man ill hit you up with the hospital bill :smoking:

Vincent
06-12-2009, 03:52 AM
In my opinion, there isn't even a slight chance that Kobe doesn't win the Finals MVP if the Lakers win.

And if it happens, it will be a mockery of the Bill Russell award.

But hypothetically if it happened, Kobe would have every right to be angry but will play it off as if he doesn't care. Which he probably will, due to the incredible injustice it represents.

Vincent
06-12-2009, 03:54 AM
tell that to the moron saying he is the fourth most important on this finals....

I agree, that was a bit bogus

eso
06-12-2009, 03:54 AM
order of importance for LA without a doubt..


Sasha LOL
Kobe
Pau
Phil
Odom
Fisher
Bynum
Ariza
Farmer

kblo247
06-12-2009, 03:57 AM
That goes further down that Bias or homerism thats purely being a MONGOLOID.

It goes to the fact that Pau is being pushed around by Dwight and is getting help by a this team.

Odom has flat out outplayed him in the finals from his rebounding, to his D on Lewis, to his scoring, to his passing, and ball handling. This team needs him to stay effective because he makes us Damn near untouchable.

It also goes to the fact that Trevor defending Hedo is very important as he makes Orlando go, and add to the fact that he went out there tonight and took part of the game over, much like Lamar and Kobe has done.

Pau has played well in the Finals and much better than last year, but he has not had one spurt where he took a quarter over. He has has fed off of Kobe, Lamar, and Fish making plays though.

As important as Pau is Fish has helped his *** a lot in this series,. He has constantly been down there disrupting Howard's rhythm, getting steals, and fighting for rebounds.

Fish made big plays down the stretch of game 2, hit timely shots in game 1, and won this game tonight so yes he and Pau have close to equal impact.

Luke, Jordan, and Drew have been support players in this series as well, but they fall in a fifth tier.

Kobe
Lamar
Ariza
Pau and Fish
Luke, Jordan, and Bynum

kblo247
06-12-2009, 03:58 AM
I never said that Pau wasn't the 2nd best player, but Odom and Ariza's role in this series is much more important for us when it comes to winning a title.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 03:59 AM
you must be watching a differnet finals than im watching dude.

Its not worth to waste my time to discuss with you.

robdizzle3
06-12-2009, 04:02 AM
He also kept the team in game 3 when everyone else was stuggling.If the Lakers win the Finals,Kobe will get Finals MVP

USMCLaker
06-12-2009, 04:02 AM
Winning the rings but not being Mvp?


Is a fact, not always the best player of the team that wins makes the best finals and gets Mvp, i mean James Worhty is not in the same league that Magic but he was Mvp in the finals, Parker is no Duncan and yet he got the Mvp.


Ok here it is

lakers up 3-1

Kobe made a hell of a good game 1.

since then he has SHot a lot, and shot very bad with a very bad FG%

He singlehandedly lost game 3 by making too many ill shots at the last minutes and losing TWICE the ball in the last and defining moments.


at the same time

Pau, is shooting a very nice fg%, he is holding his own against Dwight howard, siupossedly the best Center in the game and leaving Dwigts sscore numbers WAYYY bellow than usual.

add that he Took Lakers to Overtime in Game 2 and then played like a demon and hit the key buckets to secure the 2-0

Then again in game 4, he scores a very improtant basket when they are 5 under Fisher makes the clutch they go into overtime and he finishes the magic with two consecutive incredible plays.



So, you must at least recognise there is a slight posibility tht Pau could get the Mvp.


How wouldk kobe react??

Woudl he threaten Buss about opting pout fi they dont trade away pau?


Just cheer pau but inside start his revenge plan and how to get to be the hero next time?


Or just be mature and enjoy the Ring he LEAD the team to during a whole season .

I respect your argument but no way does anyone else get MVP other than Kobe. CO MVP's now that might be an interesting discussion.

kblo247
06-12-2009, 04:03 AM
you must be watching a differnet finals than im watching dude.

Its not worth to waste my time to discuss with you.

Can you name one stretch not a single moment in the finals where Pau has flat out said I will not let my team lose with his play?

Importance and talent are two different things btw.

azkarraga
06-12-2009, 04:05 AM
I think crooner's got a point. Not that Gasol's gonna be the finals MVP, but he's doing a hell of a job (on attack he's clearly the second option, on D who's stopping Howard, Bynum or Gasol? Where Bynum?)
Bryant will be the finals MVP, but Gasol is notoriously grown up since last year.

And to answer his question, i'd say that i think Kobe would be happy for him. I see Bryant mature enough to share the glory.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 04:06 AM
at least kobe been able to win some games in teh playoffs with some crap teams

Pau hasn't done **** until he started playing with kobe.


Nah lead crappy mempis to their only playoff appeareances with the help of such hall of famers as Jason willaims, shane battier, stro swifht and Bonzi wells.

Win a World championship with then Reserve Jose calderon as only nba help.

sivler medal only 8points bellow against redeem team with the help of one Correct nba starter (calderon) and nba scrub ( garbajosa) and two nba rookies, Rudy and Marc Gasol.....


Take a two consecutive first round exit lakers to two consecutive finals ....

kblo247
06-12-2009, 04:09 AM
Nah lead crappy mempis to their only playoff appeareances with the help of such hall of famers as Jason willaims, shane battier, stro swifht and Bonzi wells.

Win a World championship with then Reserve Jose calderon as only nba help.

sivler medal only 8points bellow against redeem team with the help of one Correct nba starter (calderon) and nba scrub ( garbajosa) and two nba rookies, Rudy and Marc Gasol.....


Take a two consecutive first round exit lakers to two consecutive finals ....

Only an idiot would say that Kobe had less talent:

Lamar, Luke, Kwame, Cook, Smush, George, Evans, Bynum, Farmar, Sasha,

Jones, Damon, Miller, Bonzi, Williams, Posey, Battier, Swift, Watson

Take into account how they were actually playing at that time and Kobe did more with less; I also got news for you, international bball means jack **** in the NBA landscape.

GspLAL
06-12-2009, 04:10 AM
Is this guy serious?

Did you watch the first quarter?

Kobe scored 14 of the first 20 Lakers points. He was the sole reason they were even in the game for the first 3 quarters.

Paul Gasol made some nice plays down the stretch, but Kobe was ridiculous when he needed to be. I can't even take this thread seriously.

Exactly, if Kobe wasnt there LA would be down by 20+ at the half.

stawka
06-12-2009, 04:10 AM
anybody cares to explain me how many points per game has Dwight been getting in regular season and the first three series and how many is he getting THIS SERIES?

Is that not Valuable???

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuum because in the first series he played against the 76ers who have Dalembert, the second series he played against the defending champ's who didn't have some tall skinny lanky guy who happens to be their best defensive player and frontcourt dude, and in the third series he played against a 75 year old behemoth who can't do anything but hit a 20ft jump-shot (without jumping).

Now he is going up against Bynum/Gasol, and at the worst case Gasol/Odom... That's why he isn't scoring 40PPG.

kblo247
06-12-2009, 04:11 AM
I think crooner's got a point. Not that Gasol's gonna be the finals MVP, but he's doing a hell of a job (on attack he's clearly the second option, on D who's stopping Howard, Bynum or Gasol? Where Bynum?)
Bryant will be the finals MVP, but Gasol is notoriously grown up since last year.

And to answer his question, i'd say that i think Kobe would be happy for him. I see Bryant mature enough to share the glory.

Neither - as Kobe, Trevor, Fish, Lamar, Luke, and Jordan are bugging the Hell out of him.

If anyone gets credit for that it is Phil Jackson

GspLAL
06-12-2009, 04:14 AM
I dont think you guys realize how much attention Kobe brings, guarding him is a 4-5 man effort. if he's not on the floor, no one gets the looks they get when he is on the floor, haven't you guys seen when Kobe is on the bench the Laker offense is just flat out ******? His value is limitless.

kblo247
06-12-2009, 04:16 AM
while being the 2nd best on the team? lol

and and and getting swept in the 1st round 3 years in a row. very impressive

The things that gets me
- He forgets Pau's team was in the lottery more than once
- He forgets that Pau did the whole trade me/get me more talent routine as well
- He forgets that Pau is quoted as saying Kobe gave me strength

TheHoopsProphet
06-12-2009, 04:20 AM
If it took a player who fears contact to throw the ball out to the arc once he feels too much of it in order to get finals MVP, Gasol would be running away with it, running all the way from the post.

GspLAL
06-12-2009, 04:22 AM
If it took a player who fears contact to throw the ball out to the arc once he feels too much of it in order to get finals MVP, Gasol would be running away with it, running all the way from the post.

I'm amazed at how much basketball knowledge you have, I guess you really are the hoops prophet you know so much its amazing.

kblo247
06-12-2009, 04:23 AM
If it took a player who fears contact to throw the ball out to the arc once he feels too much of it in order to get finals MVP, Gasol would be running away with it, running all the way from the post.

Pau talked about touches, but he keeps throwing the ball back out and relying on the others to help him get his shots

azkarraga
06-12-2009, 04:29 AM
Neither - as Kobe, Trevor, Fish, Lamar, Luke, and Jordan are bugging the Hell out of him.

If anyone gets credit for that it is Phil Jackson

Neither? I'm pretty sure that if it was Bynum who made Gasol's plays, your oppinion would be other...

But you're right for one thing: the credit is PJ's.


Ah, and i love your sign.

kblo247
06-12-2009, 04:43 AM
Neither? I'm pretty sure that if it was Bynum who made Gasol's plays, your oppinion would be other...

But you're right for one thing: the credit is PJ's.


Ah, and i love your sign.

I give Pau his credit for finishing at the rim and taking contact better this year,

I would give him equal credit with Kobe for the Houston and Denver series, but I give the Utah series credit to Odom/Kobe and the Finals to Kobe/Phil

Brooke
06-12-2009, 08:33 AM
Wow you dont stop do you? Pau hasnt been the best player in this Finals, . Kobe, Odom, Ariza and all have played better

I dont think you realize how much attention Kobe gets, he makes plays not just score. They wouldnt be this far if there was no Kobe.

at least when Kobe was the #1 option he could get his team wins in the playoffs unlike when Pau was the #1 option in Memphis

mikantsass
06-12-2009, 09:08 AM
anybody cares to explain me how many points per game has Dwight been getting in regular season and the first three series and how many is he getting THIS SERIES?

Is that not Valuable???


How many points per game did Superman JR average vs Kendrick Perkins????
Dwight Howard looks great against stiffs like Ilgauskis and all the other garbage in the east. When he plays a center that actually knows how to play D, he doesnt put up numbers. Your argument is invalid to me, especially since Bynum guards Howard just as much as the Llama does.

Pau= softest player in the NBA

sp1derm00
06-12-2009, 09:57 AM
anybody cares to explain me how many points per game has Dwight been getting in regular season and the first three series and how many is he getting THIS SERIES?

Is that not Valuable???

Yes, it's valuable, but it's mostly because of the quick double teams and the blindside steals by Fisher, Ariza, and Kobe. Not really because of Pau's defense. When Dwight has been allowed to go one on one with Pau (very few shots, maybe 2) he has scored I believe.

DrDEADalready
06-12-2009, 10:19 AM
So your saying Kobe couldn't win with out shaq? And now He can't win without pau? Man sucks to be kobe. Can't win without big players guess thats true.

masalex1205
06-12-2009, 10:21 AM
He'll get it even if he doesn't deserve it BUT imo he has certainly been the finals mvp so far.

lakersrock
06-12-2009, 10:24 AM
Sorry Hellcrooner asking PSD poster to be mature is like asking dogs in heat not to hump your leg or anything else they see.

:laugh: HAHAHA!

S-Dot
06-12-2009, 10:33 AM
this is a great thread question. I say the answer is no he wouldnt be happy, not sure if its maturity though... but i think someone mentioned earlier the NBA wont let it happen and kobe deserves it nevertheless

albertc86
06-12-2009, 10:54 AM
Hellcrooner, your European bias never ceases to amaze me.

JJ81
06-12-2009, 11:12 AM
It's not his choice who wins the finals MVP.

He's averaging 33 and 8, nobody else has been playing that well on the Lakers team during the finals. Kobe takes it, no doubt.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 11:55 AM
its easy to be the top scorer when you are taking more than DOUBLE the amount of shots than second option.

albertc86
06-12-2009, 11:56 AM
Gasol would be MVP if he actually put up some more shots. He demands more touches then shies away when Howard is around. Hellcrooner, are you a true Lakers fan? Every post, your European bias is on full display.

tr4shb0t
06-12-2009, 12:00 PM
Kobe has to put up with extremely rough defense, which would be called a foul on most players. Many of his shots, he is clearly fouled on, any they aren't calling them. Just saying... no other superstar plays under those conditions.

Secondly, Kobe has huge assists on almost every critical play down the stretch.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 12:04 PM
Laker Fan since mid 80s.

Track my first post in psd in lakers forums for any doubt., summer of 2005 three years before Pau got to the Lakers .

I wonder why people fail to see that this is a HYPOTETICAL question and that in the orginal post i say the Chance of it happening is very SLIM.


Another thing that is bugginh me is how blind can people be to be talking **** about him being less important that other lakers palyers in the finals.


god i wonder if pau Gasol will EVER get the real recognision he deserves and be rated correctly.

for the moment i only have two versions about him

The Usa Media and Usa Fans that Devaluate him and underate him like hell

And the Spanish Media and Spanish Fans in spanish forums that overrate him as hell

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 12:05 PM
I agree that ofiiciating AGaINST lakers is being really hard they are alowing pietrus to kick koeb at will and are letting Howard go away with a lot of uncalled fouls on Pau.

Zefflin
06-12-2009, 12:35 PM
Pau= softest player in the NBA

:pity:

Level of Importance on the team in this series:

1. Kobe
2. Pau/Ariza/Odom
3. Fish
4. Bynum
5. Rest of team.

IndyRealist
06-12-2009, 12:59 PM
This ring would tie him for most among active players, and it would give him one without Shaq. I don't think he'd care. This year. Future years it's a different story.

fresh prince
06-12-2009, 01:37 PM
What if Haloween was in June..and Christmas was in July... Would Valentines day be in October?

Pau isnt winning MVP man..

Crooner will you just fly over here and find out where Pau lives and make sweet love to the guy already..

Your'e obsessed bro..Your'e obsession with Pau is worse than my obsession with Emannuelle Chriqui and that is saying something!

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/emmanuelle-chriqui-step-up-los-angeles-premiere-ZhMISl.jpg

madiaz3
06-12-2009, 01:47 PM
its easy to be the top scorer when you are taking more than DOUBLE the amount of shots than second option.

Pau wouldn't even attempt that many shots if they told him to. He passes out of the post on almost every play.

desertlakeshow
06-12-2009, 02:05 PM
Kobe has been in the finals before and has not won the MVP. And did not jump off a cliff.He would be fine.

I think Pau has done a fine job against howard in the series, but I would not use the words dominant or dominated in the same sentance.

Kobe has dominated those who have to defend him. He is the leader of the team. And if they win the NBA finals the league (and hopefully you) will name him the MVP.

championships
06-12-2009, 02:23 PM
The ring means more to Kobe than the Finals MVP. He threatened the Lakers he would leave if they didn't get him some help, which lead to getting Pau. I dont see Kobe wanting to get rid of Pau. He probably will think "Lets get another next year".

Raidaz4Life
06-12-2009, 02:38 PM
LOL dude you need to get off Gasol's nuts. EVERY thread you start is about Gasol.

Kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gasol.

In this series, Ariza>Gasol.


If he played like an MVP (30/15/7) then he would get the MVP because Stern would love an International player to be named Finals MVP (Parker doesn't count cause he's on the Spurs).

no kidding. I love Pau as much as the next guy but he has been completely invisible out there for long stretches. Kobe may not be shooting a high percentage but he is still creating shots for everyone including Pau and is therefore the finals MVP

ko8e24
06-12-2009, 02:38 PM
Kobe is the front-runner to get finals mvp obviously.

scoring 40, 29, 31, 32 (avg 33 PPG), and 8 assists in each of the first four games. I think after he gets this finals mvp, he won't really care after that. After this year, i don't think he would mind the lakers win a few more championships in the future with gasol and bynum winning finals mvps.

It's more like checklist for him to defne his career.


Finals MVP (soon to be his 1st)-check

League MVP (1)-check

All-Star game MVP (3)-check

Scoring Champion (2)-check

Slam Dunk Champion (1)-check

Olympic Gold Medal (1)-check (plus, helped bring the gold "back" to usa and brought respectability back to TEAM USA)

NBA Titles (Soon to be 4)-no limit,he wants to get as many as he can get. Thats what will define his career ultimately.


He wants to get one of each main award/honor/trophy. I go out on a limb that with a more healthy and rested Kobe (no significant basketball during the summer), he will get his first DPOY award, the next on his checklist for next season along with striving to get title number 5!

FaceDown91
06-12-2009, 02:48 PM
Winning the rings but not being Mvp?


Is a fact, not always the best player of the team that wins makes the best finals and gets Mvp, i mean James Worhty is not in the same league that Magic but he was Mvp in the finals, Parker is no Duncan and yet he got the Mvp.


Ok here it is

lakers up 3-1

Kobe made a hell of a good game 1.

since then he has SHot a lot, and shot very bad with a very bad FG%

He singlehandedly lost game 3 by making too many ill shots at the last minutes and losing TWICE the ball in the last and defining moments.


at the same time

Pau, is shooting a very nice fg%, he is holding his own against Dwight howard, siupossedly the best Center in the game and leaving Dwigts sscore numbers WAYYY bellow than usual.

add that he Took Lakers to Overtime in Game 2 and then played like a demon and hit the key buckets to secure the 2-0

Then again in game 4, he scores a very improtant basket when they are 5 under Fisher makes the clutch they go into overtime and he finishes the magic with two consecutive incredible plays.



So, you must at least recognise there is a slight posibility tht Pau could get the Mvp.


How wouldk kobe react??

Woudl he threaten Buss about opting pout fi they dont trade away pau?


Just cheer pau but inside start his revenge plan and how to get to be the hero next time?


Or just be mature and enjoy the Ring he LEAD the team to during a whole season .

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

I'll probley get a warning but oh well. The link represents you oh so well :D.

NeutralFan
06-12-2009, 03:09 PM
LOL dude you need to get off Gasol's nuts. EVERY thread you start is about Gasol.

Kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gasol.

In this series, Ariza>Gasol.


If he played like an MVP (30/15/7) then he would get the MVP because Stern would love an International player to be named Finals MVP (Parker doesn't count cause he's on the Spurs).

although i do believe kobe will be mvp i dont know why so many people have a problem with Pau. i think he is an absolute stud. the lakers would not be this far without him. and of course pau never did anything before the lakers he was with a horrible team. KG never did anything with the Twolves. Yes, Gasol is not a no. 1 on a team but he is one of the best #2's in the league.

pete_one
06-12-2009, 03:38 PM
kobe is getting the finals mvp regardless

dee279
06-12-2009, 03:42 PM
Kobes winning the MVP!

geoffizfoshiz
06-12-2009, 03:56 PM
wwwwwwowwwwwwwww...

How can you have watched this series and NOT think KOBE is the MVP?

Is this a joke?

JordansBulls
06-12-2009, 04:03 PM
Winning the rings but not being Mvp?


Is a fact, not always the best player of the team that wins makes the best finals and gets Mvp, i mean James Worhty is not in the same league that Magic but he was Mvp in the finals, Parker is no Duncan and yet he got the Mvp.


Ok here it is

lakers up 3-1

Kobe made a hell of a good game 1.

since then he has SHot a lot, and shot very bad with a very bad FG%

He singlehandedly lost game 3 by making too many ill shots at the last minutes and losing TWICE the ball in the last and defining moments.


at the same time

Pau, is shooting a very nice fg%, he is holding his own against Dwight howard, siupossedly the best Center in the game and leaving Dwigts sscore numbers WAYYY bellow than usual.

add that he Took Lakers to Overtime in Game 2 and then played like a demon and hit the key buckets to secure the 2-0

Then again in game 4, he scores a very improtant basket when they are 5 under Fisher makes the clutch they go into overtime and he finishes the magic with two consecutive incredible plays.



So, you must at least recognise there is a slight posibility tht Pau could get the Mvp.


How wouldk kobe react??

Woudl he threaten Buss about opting pout fi they dont trade away pau?


Just cheer pau but inside start his revenge plan and how to get to be the hero next time?


Or just be mature and enjoy the Ring he LEAD the team to during a whole season .


The thing you are forgetting is that Duncan and Magic already had 3 finals MVP's before guys like Worthy and Parker got there's.
The only example that you could really use is that Cedrix Maxwell got a finals MVP before Bird.

JordansBulls
06-12-2009, 04:07 PM
Nah lead crappy mempis to their only playoff appeareances with the help of such hall of famers as Jason willaims, shane battier, stro swifht and Bonzi wells.

Win a World championship with then Reserve Jose calderon as only nba help.

sivler medal only 8points bellow against redeem team with the help of one Correct nba starter (calderon) and nba scrub ( garbajosa) and two nba rookies, Rudy and Marc Gasol.....


Take a two consecutive first round exit lakers to two consecutive finals ....

You forgot he led the Lakers in win shares this year as well in the season.
:p

LAKERRS24
06-12-2009, 04:21 PM
are you on crack man??
First of all you CANNOT COMPARE FG% of a PF/C and a SG! You just can't. WHY? Kobe has so much attention, he's the engine of the team, while gasol is just getting open and scoring in low post. And you must know that Lewis, LEWIS! guards him! You're ridicolus!
Kobe fg% isn't as good as could be, but he's still 43%. That's not bad against physical team like ORLANDO. Gasol FMVP???????

Chronz
06-12-2009, 04:25 PM
The thing you are forgetting is that Duncan and Magic already had 3 finals MVP's before guys like Worthy and Parker got there's.
The only example that you could really use is that Cedrix Maxwell got a finals MVP before Bird.
Whats your point? Finals MVP's shouldnt define anything, sure its a symbolic award thats always nice to have on your mantle, but aside from that Im beginning to realize just how insignificant those awards can be, as you just mentioned what does Maxwell getting one before Bird have to do with anything? In fact what would it mean if he had gotten one after Bird? Seriously whats the point of even mentioning that?

NYMetros
06-12-2009, 04:27 PM
Kobe is going to be the MVP. Does he deserve it? Maybe. Has he played good this series? No. But he has been scoring 30+ a lot and he has been the best player for LA all season long, so that is how it will go. As Bill Simmons said, once Kobe starts to smell that trophy he turns into the 'Get Out Of My Way, Let Me Do It' mode.

CowboysKB24
06-12-2009, 04:28 PM
Kobe is the MVP right now for the Lakers. This thread should be closed.

CowboysKB24
06-12-2009, 04:32 PM
Kobe is going to be the MVP. Does he deserve it? Maybe. Has he played good this series? No. But he has been scoring 30+ a lot and he has been the best player for LA all season long, so that is how it will go. As Bill Simmons said, once Kobe starts to smell that trophy he turns into the 'Get Out Of My Way, Let Me Do It' mode.

He does deserve it. He is the only one on the team that could get.

Is everybody gone F'n crazy?

43% FG
35% 3PT
81%FT
33 PT/G, 8 AST/G, 5.5 REBS/G

That is not finals MVP right there? Give me a break. Those are some unbelievable numbers. Has the world gone crazy?

He had two great games in LA.
He played well in game 3.
He played bad in game 4 for most of the game, but the Lakers still won.
Kobe is the MVP no questions asked.

thephoenixson28
06-12-2009, 04:53 PM
I don't know if you like gasol so much or hate dwight howard. Do you honeslty think that gasol is shutting down dwight. I see him getting help with team defense. If gasol was guarding howard 1 on 1 this series wouldn't be 3-1 they would already be having a parade in orlando.

showtym24
06-12-2009, 04:55 PM
Kobe's gonna be the finals MVP.

Squad13
06-12-2009, 05:04 PM
Winning the rings but not being Mvp?


Is a fact, not always the best player of the team that wins makes the best finals and gets Mvp, i mean James Worhty is not in the same league that Magic but he was Mvp in the finals, Parker is no Duncan and yet he got the Mvp.


Ok here it is

lakers up 3-1

Kobe made a hell of a good game 1.

since then he has SHot a lot, and shot very bad with a very bad FG%

He singlehandedly lost game 3 by making too many ill shots at the last minutes and losing TWICE the ball in the last and defining moments.


at the same time

Pau, is shooting a very nice fg%, he is holding his own against Dwight howard, siupossedly the best Center in the game and leaving Dwigts sscore numbers WAYYY bellow than usual.

add that he Took Lakers to Overtime in Game 2 and then played like a demon and hit the key buckets to secure the 2-0

Then again in game 4, he scores a very improtant basket when they are 5 under Fisher makes the clutch they go into overtime and he finishes the magic with two consecutive incredible plays.



So, you must at least recognise there is a slight posibility tht Pau could get the Mvp.


How wouldk kobe react??

Woudl he threaten Buss about opting pout fi they dont trade away pau?


Just cheer pau but inside start his revenge plan and how to get to be the hero next time?


Or just be mature and enjoy the Ring he LEAD the team to during a whole season .

Please stop calling yourself a laker fan, you are a Gasol fan.

XJW18
06-12-2009, 05:05 PM
Kobe's averaging 30 and 8 a game.
There has only been 2 other guys who have done that in the finals.
Jordan and Jerry West.
This is Kobe's Finals MVP.

LA_Raiders
06-12-2009, 05:38 PM
LOL, We all know you love Gasol so much but come on man...Kobe averages 33/7/8 in the Finals. And Great Defence...

1. Kobe
2. Gasol
3. Odom
4. Ariza
5. Fish
6...???

Utahjazzfan18
06-12-2009, 05:44 PM
Kobe is the MVP but that's only because he has the ball in his hands on every posession. I'm not going to say he doesn't have amazing talent but he and the Lakers would be even better if he would pass the ball a little more. Gasol and Odom are just as important to the Lakers playoff success. Phil Jackson also is equally deserving of the credit. My point is Kobe is the best player because he's involved in every single play. Gasol and Odom have to take what Kobe gives them or what they can scrap off the boards. The mismatches those two create is crazy. Most teams in the league including my own don't have an answer for them and have a hard time scoring on their length.

Fire Girardi
06-12-2009, 06:06 PM
lol kobe is obv gonna get the mvp, he has had 8 ast in every game and avg 33 ppg while gasol doesnt get the ball enough

ARMIN12NBA
06-12-2009, 06:52 PM
Kobe has been playing great in this Finals. He's been displaying fantastic leadership and intangibles. Also, the 33/8/7 average helps.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 07:20 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090612&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fplayoffs%2f2009%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fc olumnist%3dhollinger_john%26page%3dPERDiem-090612



seems writers have less problems than fans to recognise thngs and analaise things other than stat lines.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 07:25 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090612&sportCat=nba


"1:02: Kobe clangs another horrendous shot (a contested 28-foot 3-pointer). Orlando gets the rebound. Quick recap of Kobe's fourth quarter, because he's going to win the Finals MVP and it can't be forgotten how bad he was from the second half of Game 3 (3-for-14) through the one-minute mark of Game 4 (9-for-26 to this point): Turnover; contested jumper (make); contested jumper (miss); contested drive (miss); contested jumper (make); contested drive (blocked), wide-open 3 (miss); contested drive (bad pass, recovered by L.A.); contested drive (draws blocking foul); contested 3 (miss).



We saw him do it in the 2004 and 2008 Finals; we're seeing it now. As soon as he can smell that trophy, he goes into Get Out of My Way, Let Me Do It Mode.




2004 Finals (five games): 113 FGA, 25 FTA, 38.0 FG percent
2008 Finals (six games): 131 FGA, 49 FTA, 40.5 FG percent
2009 Finals (four games): 112 FGA, 36 FTA, 42.9 FG percent




What's really strange: Nobody has ever won an NBA title with a best player in Get Out Of My Way, Let Me Do It Mode if he didn't play well. It's just never happened. So basically, I don't know what to make of the 2009 Finals. It has nothing in common with anything that has ever happened before. My theory: because of the economy, nobody improved their team at the trading deadline and strengthened whatever holes they had, so we just ended up with a bunch of flawed contenders. Just one of those years. Opened the door for ... this.
"

ARMIN12NBA
06-12-2009, 07:26 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090612&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fplayoffs%2f2009%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fc olumnist%3dhollinger_john%26page%3dPERDiem-090612



seems writers have less problems than fans to recognise thngs and analaise things other than stat lines.

It's not all about stats. At the same time, Gasol is playing better because of the mass amount of attention that is brought to Kobe. Kobe is averaging 8 APG because of all the attention he is garnering and his ability to recognize the doubles, kick out the ball, and help his teammates.

Do you honestly think Gasol is the Finals MVP?

Lakersfan2483
06-12-2009, 07:28 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090612&sportCat=nba


"1:02: Kobe clangs another horrendous shot (a contested 28-foot 3-pointer). Orlando gets the rebound. Quick recap of Kobe's fourth quarter, because he's going to win the Finals MVP and it can't be forgotten how bad he was from the second half of Game 3 (3-for-14) through the one-minute mark of Game 4 (9-for-26 to this point): Turnover; contested jumper (make); contested jumper (miss); contested drive (miss); contested jumper (make); contested drive (blocked), wide-open 3 (miss); contested drive (bad pass, recovered by L.A.); contested drive (draws blocking foul); contested 3 (miss).



We saw him do it in the 2004 and 2008 Finals; we're seeing it now. As soon as he can smell that trophy, he goes into Get Out of My Way, Let Me Do It Mode.




2004 Finals (five games): 113 FGA, 25 FTA, 38.0 FG percent
2008 Finals (six games): 131 FGA, 49 FTA, 40.5 FG percent
2009 Finals (four games): 112 FGA, 36 FTA, 42.9 FG percent




What's really strange: Nobody has ever won an NBA title with a best player in Get Out Of My Way, Let Me Do It Mode if he didn't play well. It's just never happened. So basically, I don't know what to make of the 2009 Finals. It has nothing in common with anything that has ever happened before. My theory: because of the economy, nobody improved their team at the trading deadline and strengthened whatever holes they had, so we just ended up with a bunch of flawed contenders. Just one of those years. Opened the door for ... this.
"


That column was written by Bill Simmons, a known laker hater and very biased writer. He's a Celtics fan and hates Kobe and the lakers.

Bottomline is the Lakers won and Kobe made plays to win that game. 33 ppg, 8apg, 6rpg is all I need to throw out there., not too mention countless key plays made down the stretch.

ARMIN12NBA
06-12-2009, 07:28 PM
Read my post HC. Tell me what you think.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 07:36 PM
Do you honestly think Gasol is the Finals MVP?


NO.

i never sair Gasol is the finals mvp.

what i said, and i dont know why people fail to understand it, is that IT COULD BE MADE the case for it .

In fact a horrendous Kobe game 5 with such stupid shots and basically losing the game on his own like it hapened in game three combined with the third Clutch play to reach overtime and cluthc play during overtime by gasol in a game 6 could even help more his case.

Also, it amezes me how mcuh people dispise Gasol, denying him any influence in lakers being up 3-1 thats pure Bias.

ARMIN12NBA
06-12-2009, 07:43 PM
NO.

i never sair Gasol is the finals mvp.

what i said, and i dont know why people fail to understand it, is that IT COULD BE MADE the case for it .

In fact a horrendous Kobe game 5 with such stupid shots and basically losing the game on his own like it hapened in game three combined with the third Clutch play to reach overtime and cluthc play during overtime by gasol in a game 6 could even help more his case.

Also, it amezes me how mcuh people dispise Gasol, denying him any influence in lakers being up 3-1 thats pure Bias.

Kobe is not taking stupid shots. A few, but not many. Kobe should of easily been 11 for 23 or 24 from the field if it wasn't for many blown calls and unfair referee treatment (same with Gasol who got hacked numerous times by Dwight).

I don't despise Gasol. I LOVE Gasol. In fact, I can't stop talking about the fact that the dude must be so happy going from Memphis to the Lakers. I can't stop talking about the fact that he is bulked up, gotten angry (LOVED the reaction to the dirty Pietrus play), and is playing fantastic.

Gasol is the 2nd biggest reason the Lakers have a 3-1 lead. Nobody denies that fact.

At the same time, a certain player who is not Gasol HAS BEEN the driving force behind this squad and not even you, my Spanish friend, can deny this.

Hellcrooner
06-12-2009, 07:48 PM
In fact the Mvp should be Phil Jackson, he is driving ron jerem... errr Van Gundy nuts.

Lakersfan2483
06-12-2009, 07:51 PM
Gasol has been outstanding this year and he's been playing great all year, he's a great 2nd option for the Lakers. We don't go to the finals without Pau.

kblo247
06-12-2009, 09:45 PM
Kobe is not taking stupid shots. A few, but not many. Kobe should of easily been 11 for 23 or 24 from the field if it wasn't for many blown calls and unfair referee treatment (same with Gasol who got hacked numerous times by Dwight).

I don't despise Gasol. I LOVE Gasol. In fact, I can't stop talking about the fact that the dude must be so happy going from Memphis to the Lakers. I can't stop talking about the fact that he is bulked up, gotten angry (LOVED the reaction to the dirty Pietrus play), and is playing fantastic.

Gasol is the 2nd biggest reason the Lakers have a 3-1 lead. Nobody denies that fact.

At the same time, a certain player who is not Gasol HAS BEEN the driving force behind this squad and not even you, my Spanish friend, can deny this.

I agree with this sentiment whole heartily, and I have nothing but love for Pau.
(That response after Pietrius hit him was what I have always wanted to see from him)

Hellcrooner,

I understand that he is the second best player on this team and has had a great impact in us getting here again.

My whole point was that we all know that Kobe is the most important player on this team, but for this series I happened to believe coming in and still do that Trevor and Lamar's play is more important to us being successful

Trevor has to defend Hedo Turkoglu who normally makes the Magic go when SVG isn't showing his man crush on Jameer; Lamar also has to take away the mismatch that Rashard Lewis creates for Orlando against most teams.

That is my whole argument, but I cannot expect a blind Kobe hater and Pau lover to comprehend that.

CowboysKB24
06-12-2009, 11:52 PM
It is funny that people are trying to knock Kobe Bryant still.... he is in the FINALS AND UP 3-1... give the guy the respect he deserves or shut up because you are wrong and stupid.

33/7/8
That is not good enough?
43 percent is not awful? It is decent.
He had 2 SUPERB games. 1 SOLID game. 1 BAD BAD SHOOTING GAME, they still won and he still had 8 asts 6rebounds.
He is FINALS MVP.... IF THEY WIN, don't forget the series isn't over.

CowboysKB24
06-12-2009, 11:57 PM
Hellcrooner give respect... it is deserved.

FaceDown91
06-13-2009, 12:02 AM
There is no way this spanish fanatic is a laker fan. The only reason he likes the lakers because of pau gasol or any other spanish player. He probley thinks jose calderon is better then chris paul. There is no point with arguing to this guy.

albertc86
06-13-2009, 12:05 AM
There is no way this spanish fanatic is a laker fan. The only reason he likes the lakers because of pau gasol or any other spanish player. He probley thinks jose calderon is better then chris paul. There is no point with arguing to this guy.

Exactly. This guy's European bias never ceases to amaze me.

rapswin98
06-13-2009, 12:15 AM
i think jordan averaged 42 % from the field in two finals series and still won finals mvp. if you consider the tough defense kobe has faced in the finals 43% fro the field is preety good, and during game 4 he kept the lakers in the game. even though it was a bad game for him, he was still important to his team.

blacknell
06-13-2009, 12:15 AM
they will make sure kobe is the MVP no one else has a chance. Hell even if orlando comes back and wins they will still give the mvp to kobe

kblo247
06-13-2009, 12:34 AM
Bring up how PAU GASOL shot 45% in the playoffs before Kobe and 58% with him while you are at it HC

kblo247
06-13-2009, 12:38 AM
Michael Jordan Finals Career Averages:


YEAR Opponent G MPG FG% 3P% FT% ORB DRB RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
1990-91 Lakers 5 44.0 .558 .500 .848 1.6 5.0 6.6 11.4 2.8 1.40 3.6 3.6 31.2
1991-92 Trail Blazers 6 42.3 .526 .429 .891 1.0 3.8 4.8 6.5 1.7 0.33 2.0 3.5 35.8
1992-93 Suns 6 45.7 .508 .400 .694 2.5 6.0 8.5 6.3 1.7 0.67 2.7 3.3 41.0
1995-96 Supersonics 6 42.0 .415 .316 .836 1.7 3.7 5.3 4.2 1.7 0.17 3.0 2.8 27.3
1996-97 Jazz 6 42.7 .456 .320 .764 1.5 5.5 7.0 6.0 1.2 0.83 2.2 2.3 32.3
1997-98 Jazz 6 41.7 .427 .308 .814 1.5 2.5 4.0 2.3 1.8 0.67 1.7 2.2 33.5


For 2 title runs MJ shot 42% and 43% in the Finals

lakers4sho
06-13-2009, 12:44 AM
I think some of us are confusing the terms "MVP" and "key factor(s)" :shrug:

Hellcrooner
06-13-2009, 03:00 AM
Ha ha ****ing Jordan!!!!!!!!

i wonder how many times was PIPPEN the one deserving the mvp but of course didnt get it because league had too much Money interest on Mj

kblo247
06-13-2009, 03:05 AM
Ha ha ****ing Jordan!!!!!!!!

i wonder how many times was PIPPEN the one deserving the mvp but of course didnt get it because league had too much Money interest on Mj

Maybe Pip missed out because he had a headache ;)

superkegger
06-13-2009, 03:23 AM
Kobe is terrible, Pau is God.

/thread

kblo247
06-13-2009, 03:32 AM
Kobe is terrible, Pau is God.

/thread

Screw that Pau, Fox, Horry, Odom, Shaq, Shaw, Luke, Bynum, and Ariza are/were accessories like Grant, Kerr, Paxson, Rodman, Kukoc, Longley, and Harper

The real dynamic Jordan/Pippen like duo is Kobe and Fish

- Separate they are good; together their unstoppableness is unstoppable
- They will give us a second 3 peat
- They are who we are building this team around
- Staples is the house they built

We will hang their jerseys in the rafters and they will headline the next 50 greatest players in league history and enter in to the Hall of Fame

:worthy: All Hail The Black Mamba and The Bulldog :smoking:

now /thread

_KB24_
06-13-2009, 03:35 AM
Yeah dumb thread. Kobe does not to allow anything. How can you not give the MVP to a guy whos avergagine 33 8 5 in a series. Only West Jordan and Magic have ever done that in the Finals.

Hellcrooner
06-13-2009, 04:03 AM
stats stats stats.


Sme things wil never change.

wait some years you will have an HORRIBLE awakening regardig basketball with that mindset.

GspLAL
06-13-2009, 04:14 AM
stats stats stats.


Sme things wil never change.

wait some years you will have an HORRIBLE awakening regardig basketball with that mindset.

Hopefully we dont wake up in a dark room chained to a toilet with Jigsaw asking us to play a game.

sp1derm00
06-13-2009, 04:26 AM
stats stats stats.


Sme things wil never change.

wait some years you will have an HORRIBLE awakening regardig basketball with that mindset.

You have to be kidding if you think Kobe's impact on the game is simply based on his stats.

Pau doubled, has produced absolutely nothing for us this series because Dwight can cover him pretty easily with single coverage.

Kobe, doubled or tripled, has been our primary option. Pau hasn't scored many points this series by his standards, but a lot of them were set up by Kobe, though Pau does get credit for those since not many players can finish like Pau does.

The amount of attention Kobe has drawn being the focal point of the Lakers offense is amazing. He draws double, triple teams easily... including DWIGHT leaving Pau to go help on Kobe.

Defensively, Kobe's impact is without question in this series, VERY inspiring. In Game 4, Kobe saw that Lewis had drained a 3 and switched with LO, guarding and locking down a much bigger Lewis. He not only locked him down, but outdueled him in rebounds. CRUCIAL inbounds play, who is boxing out Dwight? Kobe...

Don't get me wrong, Pau has done a good job defending Dwight, but it was the combined effort of Fisher, Ariza, and Kobe harrassing Dwight and stripping him that has prevented Dwight from scoring... not solely on Pau.

But yah, Kobe's impact on the game is beyond stats, I completely agree with your statement that people shouldn't pay attention to only stats... but paying attention to only stats doesn't really help your Pau for Finals MVP case.

Hellcrooner
06-13-2009, 05:17 AM
hey Pau is doing almost 20ppg on just 12 shots a game, dont come and say he is doing nothing.

also how about the turnovers by dwight he has forced?

Or the offensive fouls?

Or the rebounds on key moments?

Or finishing a lot of cluthc moment baskets in the overtimes?

Of course Kobe is looking sometimes for him and that he is geting doubeld a lot of times.

Kobe should be averaing 12 or 13 assists per game not 8 because if three ugys are over him then 2 guys are uncovered.

I wonder how people forget it woudl already be 4-0 if Kobe didnt force matters at the end of game three where he SCREW IT BAD.

Also everyone tells how good Kobe makes pau because ofopen looks.


Now wonder how good does Pau make the Lakers because now teams CANT AFFORD to be doubleing or triple covering Kobe ALL TIME because they ahve to care for pau inside?

How does it help Odom , ariza or Bynum? if there was no pau teams could double Kobe and Double these guys too.

Kenny
06-13-2009, 11:10 AM
Kobe at the end of the last 3 games it felt like is sabotaging his team with trying to be the hero and forcing up bad shots.. Theres no way around that the guy is shooting like 41 percent

Lakersfan2483
06-13-2009, 02:10 PM
Kobe at the end of the last 3 games it felt like is sabotaging his team with trying to be the hero and forcing up bad shots.. Theres no way around that the guy is shooting like 41 percent

LOL, yeah he's sabotaging the game, by making the game winning assist to Fisher for the win or how about the go ahead assist in game 2 of overtime to Gasol. What about the 8 assists a game he's averaging in 6 straight games, the last Laker to do that was Magic?

kobelaughsatall
06-13-2009, 02:17 PM
hey Pau is doing almost 20ppg on just 12 shots a game, dont come and say he is doing nothing.

also how about the turnovers by dwight he has forced?

Or the offensive fouls?

Or the rebounds on key moments?

Or finishing a lot of cluthc moment baskets in the overtimes?

Of course Kobe is looking sometimes for him and that he is geting doubeld a lot of times.

Kobe should be averaing 12 or 13 assists per game not 8 because if three ugys are over him then 2 guys are uncovered.

I wonder how people forget it woudl already be 4-0 if Kobe didnt force matters at the end of game three where he SCREW IT BAD.

Also everyone tells how good Kobe makes pau because ofopen looks.


Now wonder how good does Pau make the Lakers because now teams CANT AFFORD to be doubleing or triple covering Kobe ALL TIME because they ahve to care for pau inside?

How does it help Odom , ariza or Bynum? if there was no pau teams could double Kobe and Double these guys too.

you r really reaching. Pau IS NOT GOING TO WIN FINALS MVP, so why r u trying to make a case for him getting it. the majority of his points came from dishes from kobe.

MPScribbles
06-13-2009, 02:55 PM
Pau has been the fourth most important player on his team

1. Kobe
2. Odom
3. Ariza

He is basically even with Fisher as 4th most important guy and after tonight you can put him behind Derek

Besides, 33ppg, 8apg, 5.5rpg, 1.75spg, 1bpg are you honestly saying that isn't FMVP worthy?

I get the fact that you are trying to discredit hellcrooner and his love of gasol but you're killing your argument when you have the balls to put odom and ariza ahead of him. Gasol has played great basketball. Odom had one big game and Ariza had one big quarter. I know stats aren't everything but look at them anyway.
Ariza
36.8 mins 0.341fg% 0.421 3% 0.500ft% 6.3rbs 1.8ast 1.8stl 0.2blk 10.0pts
Odom
34.3 mins 0.583fg% 0.200 3% 0.636ft% 7.3rbs 1.0ast 1.0stl 1.2blk 12.5pts
Gasol
42.5 mins 0.588fg% 0.000 3% 0.826ft% 7.8rbs 2.0ast 1.0stl 1.2blk 19.8pts

Besides the numbers he is primarily guarding Howard and keeping his numbers at
Howard
43.5 mins 0.471fg% 0.000 3% 0.618ft% 16.5rbs 2.5ast 1.8stl 4.2blk 16.5pts

Howard is getting nasty on boards and blocks but his fg% is down like 15% from the rest of the playoffs. I personally don't like Kobe so wouldn't want him given any more accolades of any kind. It is with that kind of honesty that I think that Gasol has earned this award more than Kobe has.

MPScribbles
06-13-2009, 02:57 PM
you r really reaching. Pau IS NOT GOING TO WIN FINALS MVP, so why r u trying to make a case for him getting it. the majority of his points came from dishes from kobe.

So. Malone won a league MVP and the majority of his points came from a Stockton pass. Does that mean that Stockton should have won that MVP?

ARMIN12NBA
06-13-2009, 03:21 PM
So. Malone won a league MVP and the majority of his points came from a Stockton pass. Does that mean that Stockton should have won that MVP?

Bad comparison. Pau isn't near Malone on either end and Kobe is a better player than Stockton.

Kobe is averaging 33/8/6 on 43% shooting and 35% from three. He is the driving force of the offense, the leader of this team, and the impact he brings goes far beyond the stats.

Is there even a question that he is the MVP?

ARMIN12NBA
06-13-2009, 03:24 PM
Michael Jordan Finals Career Averages:


YEAR Opponent G MPG FG% 3P% FT% ORB DRB RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
1990-91 Lakers 5 44.0 .558 .500 .848 1.6 5.0 6.6 11.4 2.8 1.40 3.6 3.6 31.2
1991-92 Trail Blazers 6 42.3 .526 .429 .891 1.0 3.8 4.8 6.5 1.7 0.33 2.0 3.5 35.8
1992-93 Suns 6 45.7 .508 .400 .694 2.5 6.0 8.5 6.3 1.7 0.67 2.7 3.3 41.0
1995-96 Supersonics 6 42.0 .415 .316 .836 1.7 3.7 5.3 4.2 1.7 0.17 3.0 2.8 27.3
1996-97 Jazz 6 42.7 .456 .320 .764 1.5 5.5 7.0 6.0 1.2 0.83 2.2 2.3 32.3
1997-98 Jazz 6 41.7 .427 .308 .814 1.5 2.5 4.0 2.3 1.8 0.67 1.7 2.2 33.5


For 2 title runs MJ shot 42% and 43% in the Finals

Paul Pierce shot 43% in last years Finals and everybody thought he was great.

architect13563
06-13-2009, 03:26 PM
Kobe's gonna get it.

MPScribbles
06-13-2009, 04:21 PM
Bad comparison. Pau isn't near Malone on either end and Kobe is a better player than Stockton.

Kobe is averaging 33/8/6 on 43% shooting and 35% from three. He is the driving force of the offense, the leader of this team, and the impact he brings goes far beyond the stats.

Is there even a question that he is the MVP?

Whoa. Obviously you like Kobe and I don't so we won't be able to agree on this. That said if we are talking about setting up teammates, which is what that post was talking about, then Kobe is nowhere near Stockton. Actually for overall basketball game I don't know how many people outside of Lakers fans that would agree with you that Kobe is better than Stockton. Again, admittedly, I can't stand Kobe but comparing his game to Stockton's I would only give Kobe the advantage in driving to the rim(i.e. athleticism). I can't think of another area of the game where he is better. Maybe I just can't think of it. I'm sure you'll let me know where I'm wrong.

PS- My post was not meant to compare Pau favorably with Malone. It was saying that you can't discredit a guy's worth because he has someone else getting him the ball. At some point everyone is passed the ball. Pau is a PF/C so obviously he is not going to be creating his own shot much but fact is he is getting himself in position for those baskets on which Kobe is assisting. Also, if Pau has 20ppg and Kobe has 8ast then obviously Pau is scoring at times when he is not getting the ball from Kobe. Lastly, most of Kobe's assists come from when they double him and he has to pass. You almost never see Kobe with a great look to an open teammate when he isn't being pressured to pass IMO.

Lakersfan2483
06-13-2009, 04:29 PM
Whoa. Obviously you like Kobe and I don't so we won't be able to agree on this. That said if we are talking about setting up teammates, which is what that post was talking about, then Kobe is nowhere near Stockton. :eyebrow:his game to Stockton's I would only give Kobe the advantage in driving to the rim(i.e. athleticism). I can't think of another area of the game where he is better. Maybe I just can't think of it. I'm sure you'll let me know where I'm wrong.

PS- My post was not meant to compare Pau favorably with Malone. It was saying that you can't discredit a guy's worth because he has someone else getting him the ball. At some point everyone is passed the ball. Pau is a PF/C so obviously he is not going to creating his own shot much but fact is he is getting himself in position for those baskets on which Kobe is assisting. Also, if Pau has 20ppg and Kobe has 8ast then obviously Pau is scoring at times when he is not getting the ball from Kobe. Lastly, most of Kobe's assists come from when they double him and he has to pass. You almost never see Kobe with a great look to an open teammate when he isn't being pressured to pass IMO.


Stockton is a hall of famer and one of the greatest players of all-time, but he is not better than Kobe Bryant. If Kobe wins the title this year, most people would have him top ten all time, Stockton is not in that category. Stockton is a top 30 player of all time, huge difference.

JDizzle
06-13-2009, 04:36 PM
lakers would not be here with out pau tho

Lakersfan2483
06-13-2009, 04:37 PM
Everyone knows Pau Gasol is an important piece to the Lakers team, he's a great 2nd option., that's not the point, Hellcrooner created this thread because he despises Kobe and can't stand the fact that he's on the verge of winning a finals mvp.

KB24PG16
06-13-2009, 04:44 PM
kobe is the mvp because pau is getting all his shots from kobe when pau was the best on his team he couldnt win a playoff game comes to the lakers two straight championship appearances

Brooke
06-13-2009, 05:01 PM
Everyone knows Pau Gasol is an important piece to the Lakers team, he's a great 2nd option., that's not the point, Hellcrooner created this thread because he despises Kobe and can't stand the fact that he's on the verge of winning a finals mvp.

Yep pretty much. While he is a big reason they are in the Finals, the Lakers wouldnt get this far w/out Kobe. It isnt just the scoring, Kobe creates so much attention players get open and they make shots, he makes the right decision which is why he is averaging 33/8/6 in this Finals something only a few people have done

championships
06-13-2009, 05:02 PM
Whoa. Obviously you like Kobe and I don't so we won't be able to agree on this. That said if we are talking about setting up teammates, which is what that post was talking about, then Kobe is nowhere near Stockton. Actually for overall basketball game I don't know how many people outside of Lakers fans that would agree with you that Kobe is better than Stockton. Again, admittedly, I can't stand Kobe but comparing his game to Stockton's I would only give Kobe the advantage in driving to the rim(i.e. athleticism). I can't think of another area of the game where he is better. Maybe I just can't think of it. I'm sure you'll let me know where I'm wrong.

PS- My post was not meant to compare Pau favorably with Malone. It was saying that you can't discredit a guy's worth because he has someone else getting him the ball. At some point everyone is passed the ball. Pau is a PF/C so obviously he is not going to be creating his own shot much but fact is he is getting himself in position for those baskets on which Kobe is assisting. Also, if Pau has 20ppg and Kobe has 8ast then obviously Pau is scoring at times when he is not getting the ball from Kobe. Lastly, most of Kobe's assists come from when they double him and he has to pass. You almost never see Kobe with a great look to an open teammate when he isn't being pressured to pass IMO.

Wow!!!............................
..................................
Um.........................................

...................Just speechless, Wow!

ARMIN12NBA
06-13-2009, 05:09 PM
Whoa. Obviously you like Kobe and I don't so we won't be able to agree on this. That said if we are talking about setting up teammates, which is what that post was talking about, then Kobe is nowhere near Stockton. Actually for overall basketball game I don't know how many people outside of Lakers fans that would agree with you that Kobe is better than Stockton. Again, admittedly, I can't stand Kobe but comparing his game to Stockton's I would only give Kobe the advantage in driving to the rim(i.e. athleticism). I can't think of another area of the game where he is better. Maybe I just can't think of it. I'm sure you'll let me know where I'm wrong.

PS- My post was not meant to compare Pau favorably with Malone. It was saying that you can't discredit a guy's worth because he has someone else getting him the ball. At some point everyone is passed the ball. Pau is a PF/C so obviously he is not going to be creating his own shot much but fact is he is getting himself in position for those baskets on which Kobe is assisting. Also, if Pau has 20ppg and Kobe has 8ast then obviously Pau is scoring at times when he is not getting the ball from Kobe. Lastly, most of Kobe's assists come from when they double him and he has to pass. You almost never see Kobe with a great look to an open teammate when he isn't being pressured to pass IMO.

That is the greatness of Kobe Bryant. His ability as a scorer makes his opposition have to double or triple him most of the time. When he gets doubled and tripled, Kobe has the BBIQ to be able to make the correct decision in passing the ball to the open teammate. That is the greatness of Kobe Bryant--the attention that he garners. There were many times in which Kobe was doubled on one side of the court and then he passed it to a teammate who found the open man on the other side (Kobe to Ariza to Fisher, Kobe to Pau to Ariza, etc.).

If Kobe isn't pressured, then most likely his teammates wouldn't be open. At the same time, Kobe plays within the TPO and it shows with all his off the ball movements.

BTW--Kobe is a better offensive player and defensive player than Stockton.

MPScribbles
06-13-2009, 05:26 PM
Wow!!!............................
..................................
Um.........................................

...................Just speechless, Wow!

Cute. Now would you like to let me know if you have a point to make? If I'm wrong, Lakers fan who I already predicted would not agree with me, then please tell me where.

MPScribbles
06-13-2009, 05:31 PM
That is the greatness of Kobe Bryant. His ability as a scorer makes his opposition have to double or triple him most of the time. When he gets doubled and tripled, Kobe has the BBIQ to be able to make the correct decision in passing the ball to the open teammate. That is the greatness of Kobe Bryant--the attention that he garners. There were many times in which Kobe was doubled on one side of the court and then he passed it to a teammate who found the open man on the other side (Kobe to Ariza to Fisher, Kobe to Pau to Ariza, etc.).

If Kobe isn't pressured, then most likely his teammates wouldn't be open. At the same time, Kobe plays within the TPO and it shows with all his off the ball movements.

BTW--Kobe is a better offensive player and defensive player than Stockton.

I'm not saying that drawing attention to yourself and then kicking it to the open teammate is a bad thing. I'm saying that if we are talking about creating for others any unbiased fan, the two of us excluded, would most likely give the advantage to Stockton. He leads the league all time in assists. Obviously he is better at finding the open teammate than Kobe.

BTW--Kinda vague wouldn't you say.

madiaz3
06-13-2009, 05:43 PM
I'm not saying that drawing attention to yourself and then kicking it to the open teammate is a bad thing. I'm saying that if we are talking about creating for others any unbiased fan, the two of us excluded, would most likely give the advantage to Stockton. He leads the league all time in assists. Obviously he is better at finding the open teammate than Kobe.

BTW--Kinda vague wouldn't you say.

Team structures play an important role. Not saying Kobe is better in that department but there are little to no other team systems that mirror the triangle / triple post offense. Kobe's just as likely to make the important pass to the player who has the easy pass to a converted basket than he is to a drive and pass directly to an assist, because that's how the triangle sets up a player at his position.

MPScribbles
06-13-2009, 06:19 PM
Team structures play an important role. Not saying Kobe is better in that department but there are little to no other team systems that mirror the triangle / triple post offense. Kobe's just as likely to make the important pass to the player who has the easy pass to a converted basket than he is to a drive and pass directly to an assist, because that's how the triangle sets up a player at his position.

Very true and accurate assessment of that offense. With as wildly successful as Jackson has been with it and the surplus of good wings and not-so-good bigs in the league it really makes you wonder why more teams don't use it. Also makes you wonder why Phil hasn't lost a bunch of assistants over the years to head coaching jobs where they then go and install his system. That kind of system would be good right now in Portland, for instance. They have a multi-talented 2 with good size up front and no good point guards to speak of. It is just curious that more teams don't try to copy what has been so successful for Phil.

Kakaroach
06-13-2009, 06:27 PM
Ah another European player loving thread, and who else but Crooner to make it lmao. There is a slight chance Pau might get it, but only if he really goes off and Kobe looks horrible in the rest of the games, which might only be one more.

kblo247
06-13-2009, 06:37 PM
I get the fact that you are trying to discredit hellcrooner and his love of gasol but you're killing your argument when you have the balls to put odom and ariza ahead of him. Gasol has played great basketball. Odom had one big game and Ariza had one big quarter. I know stats aren't everything but look at them anyway.
Ariza
36.8 mins 0.341fg% 0.421 3% 0.500ft% 6.3rbs 1.8ast 1.8stl 0.2blk 10.0pts
Odom
34.3 mins 0.583fg% 0.200 3% 0.636ft% 7.3rbs 1.0ast 1.0stl 1.2blk 12.5pts
Gasol
42.5 mins 0.588fg% 0.000 3% 0.826ft% 7.8rbs 2.0ast 1.0stl 1.2blk 19.8pts

Besides the numbers he is primarily guarding Howard and keeping his numbers at
Howard
43.5 mins 0.471fg% 0.000 3% 0.618ft% 16.5rbs 2.5ast 1.8stl 4.2blk 16.5pts

Howard is getting nasty on boards and blocks but his fg% is down like 15% from the rest of the playoffs. I personally don't like Kobe so wouldn't want him given any more accolades of any kind. It is with that kind of honesty that I think that Gasol has earned this award more than Kobe has.

Importance and talent are 2 different things.

Taking away Lewis and Hedo is more important to beating the Magic thus Lamar and Trevor are more important for this series, not better players

Pau is the 2nd best player on the team, but Lamar and Trevor are the difference between us winning and being exploited like the Cavs were

KBfrom8to24
06-13-2009, 07:17 PM
anybody cares to explain me how many points per game has Dwight been getting in regular season and the first three series and how many is he getting THIS SERIES?

Is that not Valuable???

It's not about stats, but it's about a player's contribution in every facet of a game. You might think Kobe played poorly in game 4? Your absolutely wrong!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:His points in the 1st half is the reason why the Lakers still in the game. His stellar defense, playmaking, and leadership are the
reasons why we stole game 4. BTW, Hellcrooner when will you ever stop making stupid threads against Kobe? Are you really a Laker fan?

MPScribbles
06-13-2009, 07:20 PM
Importance and talent are 2 different things.

Taking away Lewis and Hedo is more important to beating the Magic thus Lamar and Trevor are more important for this series, not better players

Pau is the 2nd best player on the team, but Lamar and Trevor are the difference between us winning and being exploited like the Cavs were

Ok, I understand your point but the conversation here is about the potential MVP voting. What I said is that it is ludicrous to put Odom or Ariza ahead of Gasol in MVP talk.

MPScribbles
06-13-2009, 07:23 PM
It's not about stats, but it's about a player's contribution in every facet of a game. You might think Kobe played poorly in game 4? Your absolutely wrong!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:His points in the 1st half is the reason why the Lakers still in the game. His stellar defense, playmaking, and leadership are the
reasons why we stole game 4. BTW, Hellcrooner when will you ever stop making stupid threads against Kobe? Are you really a Laker fan?

His stellar defense on whom? Pietrus is scoring extremely well for an average player being defended with stellar defense. Kobe is taking a nap on defense.

kblo247
06-13-2009, 07:28 PM
Ok, I understand your point but the conversation here is about the potential MVP voting. What I said is that it is ludicrous to put Odom or Ariza ahead of Gasol in MVP talk.

I never did.

I just think that Kobe is the clear cut MVP in this series by far because Pau hasn't imposed his will on a game for a quarter in these finals while Kobe and even Ariza and Odom have.

He has the numbers, but when the team has needed him to take over like in the second quarter of game 4 he kept pitching the ball out like it was a hot potato instead of going at it like a player of his talent and skill set should.

Kobe is getting his *** whooped out there, but he keeps on attacking and willing himself and his team on in the battle with the Magic.

Pau has to get to that point where he says my will is greater than anything you throw at me to be considered as a FMVP to me.

Kobe played great D on Lewis in game 4in those switches as did he with sealing Howard. He is leaving everything on the court, but has not got near the love from the refs as the guy who played the Magic the series before him.

CowboysKB24
06-13-2009, 08:29 PM
Screw that Pau, Fox, Horry, Odom, Shaq, Shaw, Luke, Bynum, and Ariza are/were accessories like Grant, Kerr, Paxson, Rodman, Kukoc, Longley, and Harper

The real dynamic Jordan/Pippen like duo is Kobe and Fish

- Separate they are good; together their unstoppableness is unstoppable
- They will give us a second 3 peat
- They are who we are building this team around
- Staples is the house they built

We will hang their jerseys in the rafters and they will headline the next 50 greatest players in league history and enter in to the Hall of Fame

:worthy: All Hail The Black Mamba and The Bulldog :smoking:

now /thread

Great Post

blacknell
06-13-2009, 08:52 PM
i hope lakers lose

MPScribbles
06-13-2009, 09:46 PM
Great Post

Thank you for bringing this post back to my attention. Forgot to address it earlier.


Screw that Pau, Fox, Horry, Odom, Shaq, Shaw, Luke, Bynum, and Ariza are/were accessories like Grant, Kerr, Paxson, Rodman, Kukoc, Longley, and Harper

The real dynamic Jordan/Pippen like duo is Kobe and Fish

- Separate they are good; together their unstoppableness is unstoppable
- They will give us a second 3 peat
- They are who we are building this team around
- Staples is the house they built

We will hang their jerseys in the rafters and they will headline the next 50 greatest players in league history and enter in to the Hall of Fame

:worthy: All Hail The Black Mamba and The Bulldog :smoking:

now /thread

:drunk: Are you effing kidding me? I can't believe that I am the only one to call you out for this. You are saying that Kobe and Fisher are the dynamic duo? Shaq was nothing more than an "accessory". LOL. C'mon dude. :love: You may love Fisher but he has never been better than the fourth best player on any team he has played for, possibly when he left for Golden State. Kobe, Pau, Odom all more important than Fisher. You could even make an argument for Ariza being over Fisher. The Lakers have gotten to this point despite Fisher not because of him.:down:

kblo247
06-14-2009, 12:52 AM
Thank you for bringing this post back to my attention. Forgot to address it earlier.



:drunk: Are you effing kidding me? I can't believe that I am the only one to call you out for this. You are saying that Kobe and Fisher are the dynamic duo? Shaq was nothing more than an "accessory". LOL. C'mon dude. :love: You may love Fisher but he has never been better than the fourth best player on any team he has played for, possibly when he left for Golden State. Kobe, Pau, Odom all more important than Fisher. You could even make an argument for Ariza being over Fisher. The Lakers have gotten to this point despite Fisher not because of him.:down:

Sarcasm my friend learn it as I was going off another post.

Fish is one hell of a leader and you can't down play that aspect that he brings or the fact that he and Kobe simply win when together more than they have apart

With that said he is Kobe's soul mate in the back court so to speak, but not the second best player on the squad

kblo247
06-14-2009, 01:24 AM
Referring to Gasol, who was his franchise player when he was the Grizzlies' team president from 2002 to 2007, West said:


"His effort is certainly greater than it was in Memphis, I'll tell you that, and it's because Kobe Bryant has driven him to that point."

LAKERS 24/7
06-14-2009, 01:28 AM
As soon as I read the title of the thread, I knew it was about the possibility of Gasol winning Finals MVP. Too damn predictable Hellcrooner, and somewhat annoying now. Why would you bring some ******** like this up now?

_KB24_
06-14-2009, 02:25 AM
Whoa. Obviously you like Kobe and I don't so we won't be able to agree on this. That said if we are talking about setting up teammates, which is what that post was talking about, then Kobe is nowhere near Stockton. Actually for overall basketball game I don't know how many people outside of Lakers fans that would agree with you that Kobe is better than Stockton. Again, admittedly, I can't stand Kobe but comparing his game to Stockton's I would only give Kobe the advantage in driving to the rim(i.e. athleticism). I can't think of another area of the game where he is better. Maybe I just can't think of it. I'm sure you'll let me know where I'm wrong.

PS- My post was not meant to compare Pau favorably with Malone. It was saying that you can't discredit a guy's worth because he has someone else getting him the ball. At some point everyone is passed the ball. Pau is a PF/C so obviously he is not going to be creating his own shot much but fact is he is getting himself in position for those baskets on which Kobe is assisting. Also, if Pau has 20ppg and Kobe has 8ast then obviously Pau is scoring at times when he is not getting the ball from Kobe. Lastly, most of Kobe's assists come from when they double him and he has to pass. You almost never see Kobe with a great look to an open teammate when he isn't being pressured to pass IMO.

WTF!?? WAS THAT A TYPO??? Kobe is going to be remembered as of the greatest of all time (Top 10 for sure) and Stockton won't even be on the Top 25. Kobe is better defensively, offensively, mentally, physically, and in any other way shape or form. Period. I so got to make a thread about this now.

MickeyMgl
06-14-2009, 02:51 AM
Michael Jordan's shooting percentages during his last three championships:
41.5% FG, 31.6% 3FG, 83.6% FT
45.6% FG, 32.0% 3FG, 76.4% FT
42.7% FG, 30.8% 3FG, 81.4% FT

Kobe Bryant's shooting percentages so far in this series:
42.9% FG, 35.0% 3FG, 80.6% FT

That's not accounting for the scoring and assist totals. Nothing to be "mature" about. Bryant is the Finals MVP. Case closed.

ARMIN12NBA
06-14-2009, 02:56 AM
Michael Jordan's shooting percentages during his last three championships:
41.5% FG, 31.6% 3FG, 83.6% FT
45.6% FG, 32.0% 3FG, 76.4% FT
42.7% FG, 30.8% 3FG, 81.4% FT

Kobe Bryant's shooting percentages so far in this series:
42.9% FG, 35.0% 3FG, 80.6% FT

That's not accounting for the scoring and assist totals. Nothing to be "mature" about. Bryant is the Finals MVP. Case closed.

If I'm not mistaken Mickey, Jordan also averaged 4 APG and 2 APG in two of those Finals.

recap5
06-14-2009, 03:06 AM
im thinking that the relative ineffective howard has more to do with good team defense.

KBfrom8to24
06-14-2009, 06:49 AM
His stellar defense on whom? Pietrus is scoring extremely well for an average player being defended with stellar defense. Kobe is taking a nap on defense.

You're just hating dude:mad::mad::mad: Lakers are not in the Finals and have this commanding lead 3-1 if not for Kobe's stellar defense...

Iron24th
06-14-2009, 07:30 AM
Winning the rings but not being Mvp?


Is a fact, not always the best player of the team that wins makes the best finals and gets Mvp, i mean James Worhty is not in the same league that Magic but he was Mvp in the finals, Parker is no Duncan and yet he got the Mvp.


Ok here it is

lakers up 3-1

Kobe made a hell of a good game 1.

since then he has SHot a lot, and shot very bad with a very bad FG%

He singlehandedly lost game 3 by making too many ill shots at the last minutes and losing TWICE the ball in the last and defining moments.


at the same time

Pau, is shooting a very nice fg%, he is holding his own against Dwight howard, siupossedly the best Center in the game and leaving Dwigts sscore numbers WAYYY bellow than usual.

add that he Took Lakers to Overtime in Game 2 and then played like a demon and hit the key buckets to secure the 2-0

Then again in game 4, he scores a very improtant basket when they are 5 under Fisher makes the clutch they go into overtime and he finishes the magic with two consecutive incredible plays.



So, you must at least recognise there is a slight posibility tht Pau could get the Mvp.


How wouldk kobe react??

Woudl he threaten Buss about opting pout fi they dont trade away pau?


Just cheer pau but inside start his revenge plan and how to get to be the hero next time?


Or just be mature and enjoy the Ring he LEAD the team to during a whole season .

What's wrong with you, I love Pau but Kobe will be Finals MVP , and he deserves it more than anyone on our team,he puts up great numbers and he's the only one not afraid to shoot in money time.

skinsfan4life80
06-14-2009, 09:44 AM
33 and 8 makes you the MVP of anything. The finals..the regular season, the offseason..chruch league..office league..you name it. Gasol for MVP would be the biggest robbery in sports history.

posterized
06-14-2009, 10:48 AM
This thread was talking about the maturity of Kobe if he wasnt named finals MVP, but after reading some of the comments one has to wonder if the FANS are capable of showing maturity towards somebody's opinions.

Kobe is the franchise player for all the right reasons...he is impressively talented and one of, if not, the best in the league and Pau and Kobe compliment each other nicely.Why argue who is better? Lakers are an overall talented team. They have an impressive offensive tempo and also a great defense all lead by an amazing coach. Kobe will take the finals MVP because as one person said the NBA is all about marketing.

But you lakers fans should rejoice, instead of argue, because not only has your team made it to the finals back to back but you guys may also have the opportunity to see the lakers have another impressive season next season and maybe even make it to the finals again.

prosportsdaily.com....... Where immaturity happens.

MPScribbles
06-14-2009, 01:59 PM
You're just hating dude:mad::mad::mad: Lakers are not in the Finals and have this commanding lead 3-1 if not for Kobe's stellar defense...

I'm not "hating". I do hate Kobe but there is a difference between "hating on" someone(i.e. being jealous of them) and hating them (i.e. just despising them for breathing). And once again another blinded-by-Kobe-hype Lakers fan is calling me out for a good point that I made and not making a point of their own at all. Thank you KBfrom8to24, for renewing my opinion of Lakers fans in general. Feel free to respond if you have a point to make.

Hellcrooner
06-14-2009, 04:22 PM
Ok now would some people answer me some little questions?


You put Gasol on the cavs and Ben Wallace on the lakers, who gets the ring and who gets out at second round ?


You put Kobe on the Cavs and Lebron on the Lakers, Who gets the ring and who gets beaten by orlando on conference finals?

madiaz3
06-14-2009, 04:47 PM
Ok now would some people answer me some little questions?


You put Gasol on the cavs and Ben Wallace on the lakers, who gets the ring and who gets out at second round ?


You put Kobe on the Cavs and Lebron on the Lakers, Who gets the ring and who gets beaten by orlando on conference finals?

Ben Wallace doesn't even start for the Cavs, why are you making that argument?

If you were to just instantly somehow impossibly switch them and plop them on eachothers teams, Lebron would do worse on the Lakers than Kobe did, Kobe would do worse on the Cavs than Lebron did. You don't even know if The Lakers get past the Nuggets. More importantly, who plays Small Forward and who plays SG for either team? They play different positions, you can't just switch them like you could Howard and Ming or Pierce and Lebron. One of them outweighs the other by about 50, so then you're left with an imbalance of size and a ton of team and chemistry issues.

Though Phil Jackson is a hell of a lot better of a coach.

Squad13
06-14-2009, 04:48 PM
Ok now would some people answer me some little questions?


You put Gasol on the cavs and Ben Wallace on the lakers, who gets the ring and who gets out at second round ?


You put Kobe on the Cavs and Lebron on the Lakers, Who gets the ring and who gets beaten by orlando on conference finals?

Nobody can answer that stupid question, your man crush on Pau Gasol is ridiculous. Go away

FaceDown91
06-14-2009, 05:12 PM
seriously this Spaniard kid is getting on my nerves. and apparently everybody else's lol.

And if you really want me to answer your stupid question about what would happen if lakers had ben wallace and cavs had gasol? Guess what, Cavs still lose to the magic, you know why?

Because the Cavs defense would be much much worse and it would become much softer espically with gasol and big z as the front court. Talk about softest front court in history.

On the other hand, it gives the cavs offense a good boast. But that is not saying much since there is no way in hell a front court of freaking gasol and big z can handle Dwight and Lewis.

The reason why the lakers is handling dwight pretty good is because the way there guarding him. They have a front court of gasol and bynum or Odom. Bynum as strong as he is, can't really guard howard either but would do a much better job then big z or gasol ever would.

If it was Odom and Gasol, then with that front court, Odom is not only a 6'10 or 6'11 that can play even point guard at times, but with his versatility and good strength, he is able to get in the paint on defense and do some help defense on Howard.

Gasol, has not done anything really on defense against howard, its the help defense that has been containing him is the answer. Because if it was just Gasol guarding him, Howard would have a field day and Gasol would have a torn acl right now with a head injury.

MickeyMgl
06-14-2009, 07:28 PM
Ok now would some people answer me some little questions?


You put Gasol on the cavs and Ben Wallace on the lakers, who gets the ring and who gets out at second round ?

Hmmm... Let me think.

Lakers' 2nd best player to the Cavs. Cavs' 6th best player to the Lakers.

Gee, that's a tough one.

Is there a point to this? What is proven by trading a good Laker player for a mediocre Cavalier player?



You put Kobe on the Cavs and Lebron on the Lakers, Who gets the ring and who gets beaten by orlando on conference finals?

Neither player gets beat by Orlando, because Lebron would be in the West.

Hellcrooner
06-14-2009, 07:46 PM
^just responding to people trying to deny Pau his very important second only to kobe part in the rign.

MPScribbles
06-14-2009, 08:47 PM
^just responding to people trying to deny Pau his very important second only to kobe part in the rign.

Crooner, you are right. All these Kobe lovers won't give anyone credit but Kobe no matter how much better he could be playing and no matter how well Gasol is playing. Kobe is doing it all by his onesies because Shaq is not around. I doesn't matter who is on his team and how well they play, as long as Shaq is gone this is Kobe vindicating himself against all the people that said he couldn't do it on his own. Well guess what, he isn't doing it on his own. That man has the deepest frontcourt in the league and has plenty of help besides them. Kobe is playing below his best and they are winning. It is time people start giving some credit to someone that isn't named Kobe.

kobelaughsatall
06-14-2009, 09:16 PM
Crooner, you are right. All these Kobe lovers won't give anyone credit but Kobe no matter how much better he could be playing and no matter how well Gasol is playing. Kobe is doing it all by his onesies because Shaq is not around. I doesn't matter who is on his team and how well they play, as long as Shaq is gone this is Kobe vindicating himself against all the people that said he couldn't do it on his own. Well guess what, he isn't doing it on his own. That man has the deepest frontcourt in the league and has plenty of help besides them. Kobe is playing below his best and they are winning. It is time people start giving some credit to someone that isn't named Kobe.

no one is trying to deny that kobe has help, but it is clear that he is the mvp of this series. one of about 3 players to average 30pts and 8 assists in the finals. i kno u dislike kobe, but c'mon give me a break.

Lakersfan2483
06-14-2009, 09:27 PM
Crooner, you are right. All these Kobe lovers won't give anyone credit but Kobe no matter how much better he could be playing and no matter how well Gasol is playing. Kobe is doing it all by his onesies because Shaq is not around. I doesn't matter who is on his team and how well they play, as long as Shaq is gone this is Kobe vindicating himself against all the people that said he couldn't do it on his own. Well guess what, he isn't doing it on his own. That man has the deepest frontcourt in the league and has plenty of help besides them. Kobe is playing below his best and they are winning. It is time people start giving some credit to someone that isn't named Kobe.

Ok, your idol, Michael Jordan played with one of the greatest defensive players/rebounders in Dennis Rodman and a top 30 player of all time in Scottie Pippen., so what is your point? Every great player needs some help on their team and Kobe has help, but you better believe Kobe is the "main" reason LA is winning. His supporting cast is critical to his success, but he's the primary reason they are on the verge of winning a ring. He's also going to win a Finals MVP.

*It's not about Kobe doing it all by himself, it's about him being able to win a ring as the "main" guy on his team.

*No one wins a title doing it all on their own, not Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc..., they all needed a good supporting cast to win.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-14-2009, 09:29 PM
I'm not "hating". I do hate Kobe but there is a difference between "hating on" someone(i.e. being jealous of them) and hating them (i.e. just despising them for breathing). And once again another blinded-by-Kobe-hype Lakers fan is calling me out for a good point that I made and not making a point of their own at all. Thank you KBfrom8to24, for renewing my opinion of Lakers fans in general. Feel free to respond if you have a point to make.

Since you think Pau should win MVP because he is putting up decent numbers while playing good defense, I want to know if you were making the same argument for Kobe to be MVP in 2000, 2001, and 2002 because he played stellar defense on Reggie Miller, Allen Iverson and Jason Kidd, while Shaq put up fat stats while playing against Rik Smits, Dikembe Mutumbo and Todd Macculluch?

_KB24_
06-15-2009, 01:29 AM
Yeah to Crooner and MPwhatever... Kobe has been the main man ok. Now stay quiet. You think if it weren't for Kobe, that Pau would play so well. PLEASE. Tonights game was a perfect example. Dwight was helping out on Kobe so much, that Pau had the easy rebound and putback. I remember atleast on 5 occasions where I saw Pau with no one on him, and he just put in back in.

Hellcrooner
06-15-2009, 02:24 AM
4. Kobe Bryant Didn't Do It "Alone" All the talk about winning one without Shaquille O'Neal makes it tempting to think of Bryant winning a title "alone." Despite the fact that Kobe Bryant was the series' clear MVP, of course many of the biggest plays of this series were made by teammates like Fisher, Ariza and Odom.

Pau Gasol, however, is series MVP 1a. Not only was he extraordinarily efficient with the ball all series, but he also evolved to be nearly masterful on defense. For much of the decisive Game 5 the Magic simply couldn't finish around or over him -- even as he single-covered Dwight Howard much of the night. ESPN Stats and Information charted Gasol single-covering Howard on 38 possessions -- and Howard did not score from the field on any of them.




http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-41-86/Nine-Things-to-Remember-About-the-2009-NBA-Finals.html


finally someone has watched the same series ive wtched and recognises Paus work.

Specially his defense on vitamin Guy.


Now bury the hatchedn and lets go on parade , :D

MickeyMgl
06-15-2009, 07:29 AM
Crooner, you are right. All these Kobe lovers won't give anyone credit but Kobe no matter how much better he could be playing and no matter how well Gasol is playing. Kobe is doing it all by his onesies because Shaq is not around. I doesn't matter who is on his team and how well they play, as long as Shaq is gone this is Kobe vindicating himself against all the people that said he couldn't do it on his own. Well guess what, he isn't doing it on his own. That man has the deepest frontcourt in the league and has plenty of help besides them. Kobe is playing below his best and they are winning. It is time people start giving some credit to someone that isn't named Kobe.

NOBODY does it by themselves. MJ did squat until he had the right teammates.

If anybody is giving Kobe too much credit for this championship, it is a direct response to Kobe getting too little credit for the three he won before. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.