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View Full Version : If Kobe leads LA to the title and he wins his 4th ring, where does he rank all time?



Lakersfan2483
06-12-2009, 02:56 AM
Question for all of the PSD basketball fans: If Kobe leads his team to the title this year and wins his 4th NBA Title, where does he rank amongst the all-time NBA players? Is he top 10, top 15?


*Kobe's numbers for the Finals thus far: 33ppg, 8apg, 5.5rpg, 1.75spg, 1bpg.

*Let's keep this clean so that we can keep this thread open, I want to hear truthful answers from the different PSD bball fans. There is no reason we can't discussed this in a civilized manner.

borat
06-12-2009, 02:57 AM
Solidifies a top 10 spot.

Gets a few more and we could be looking at the best player of all time.

sp1derm00
06-12-2009, 03:07 AM
Solidifies a top 10 spot.

Gets a few more and we could be looking at the best player of all time.

I agree.

Gnac76
06-12-2009, 03:11 AM
I agree.. top ten if he gets his fourth ring... but if he can get a 5th... you will be able to compare him to mike without making people shake their heads in disagreement

eso
06-12-2009, 03:14 AM
top 10.. a few he will never surpass imo MJ, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russel so that puts him at 6 for me.... in that order.

Boston Faithful
06-12-2009, 03:32 AM
I agree.. top ten if he gets his fourth ring... but if he can get a 5th... you will be able to compare him to mike without making people shake their heads in disagreement

No way. Mike never lost a Finals period. Kobe's only won one MVP. That would be ridiculous. There is so many - too many reasons to name why Kobe would never be in a conversation. Kobe would crack the top 15 if he won this fourth one. If he won a 5th, he still would not be anywhere near Michael, Magic, Wilt, Chamberlain and Bird.

abe_froman
06-12-2009, 03:33 AM
top 15,yes

Vincent
06-12-2009, 03:33 AM
I hate comparing players out of position.

In my opinion, he's the second best SG to play the game. 1 being Michael Jordan, who he doesn't really have a chance to chase, unless he DOMINATES for the next 2 years.

Chronz
06-12-2009, 05:32 AM
The way the Lakers are winning I wouldnt change too much. If Kobe has a brilliant game in their next win and caps off one of his best seasons ever I would say hes the 2nd best SG in the history of the league.

skinsfan4life80
06-12-2009, 08:28 AM
what does MJ never losing a final have anything to do with anything. He lost plenty of other playoff series. he played 15 season and made the finals 6 times. In just 13 seasons Kobe has made it 6 times. If you dont like Kobe just say i dont like him., but dont just bring pointless stuff. Magic and Bird lost finals, lots of people lost finals..lots of people never even make the finals. Jordan never lost in the final..he damn sure lost before the finals

JordansBulls
06-12-2009, 08:32 AM
He will be top 10 for sure with a title which is already an accomplishment.

JordansBulls
06-12-2009, 08:38 AM
what does MJ never losing a final have anything to do with anything. He lost plenty of other playoff series. he played 15 season and made the finals 6 times. In just 13 seasons Kobe has made it 6 times. If you dont like Kobe just say i dont like him., but dont just bring pointless stuff. Magic and Bird lost finals, lots of people lost finals..lots of people never even make the finals. Jordan never lost in the final..he damn sure lost before the finals

Good point!! I guess the only acceptable response here is that MJ never lost when he wasn't supposed to. What I mean by that is that he never lost with HCA in any playoff series nor had he ever lost in any series when being the top seed.

But this is still a great accomplishment for Kobe. Just to be in the conversation with the all time greats and having a season and finals mvp will always put his name in the top 10 all time.

plpfctn
06-12-2009, 09:25 AM
clearly top ten. 4 rings. 6 finals appearances. MVP. countless allstar appearances, 1st all nba and 1st team all defense. i still believe the best is yet to come. kobe will be top 3 (behind only Jordan and Kareem) when his career is over. i believe kobe will play another 10 seasons at a high level and win at least 3-4 more championships and get a couple more mvps. his father joe jelly bean played professional basketball at the age of 51. it was in europe, but still, he had the body and condition of a freak to play at a very old age.

Joshtd1
06-12-2009, 09:34 AM
Top 15

spitz511
06-12-2009, 09:41 AM
He wins this title and becomes the thrid best guard of all time behind Jordan and Magic. I don't think it's worth comparing a center 30 years ago to a guard now.

DrDEADalready
06-12-2009, 09:42 AM
You mean he will win one ring right? cause the other three go to Shaq. so he'll be where wade is at one ring.

koreancabbage
06-12-2009, 09:53 AM
You mean he will win one ring right? cause the other three go to Shaq. so he'll be where wade is at one ring.

no? I'm pretty sure LA would not have won without Kobe. Just like Miami without Wade. Shaq would not have won any championship without the likes of these two guards.

if you're going by that logic, then Wade "shouldn't" have a ring either.

Kobe and Wade have earned their rings and the whole "no 'chip with Shaq" is blown way out of proportion.

wifflegod
06-12-2009, 09:59 AM
As great as Kobe is, and he is great, he will never compare to MJ because when we all watched MJ we never felt he could lose! I watched him beat the Knicks every year and is was not even fair! He was special when it came to winning and losing. Kobe doesn't have that same feel even though talent wise he is very simular. I would rate him as 2 behind MJ with Magic a close 3.

DrDEADalready
06-12-2009, 10:02 AM
no? I'm pretty sure LA would not have won without Kobe. Just like Miami without Wade. Shaq would not have won any championship without the likes of these two guards.

if you're going by that logic, then Wade "shouldn't" have a ring either.

Kobe and Wade have earned their rings and the whole "no 'chip with Shaq" is blown way out of proportion.


He wouldn't have without wade since wades stats was amazing. shaqs was nothing. but in the lakers championships compare Kobes stats to Shaqs.

lakersrock
06-12-2009, 10:04 AM
It's actually 6.5 RPG, 1.25 SPG and 0.75 BPG.

Seeing that he is gonna win a title without a HOF on his team, he's in the Top 5 no argument against it. If he does it two or three more times, he'll be the best ever. That would give him as many or one more titles than Jordan and that's without two players that are as good as Pippen (HOF - Top 50) and Rodman.

lakersrock
06-12-2009, 10:07 AM
You mean he will win one ring right? cause the other three go to Shaq. so he'll be where wade is at one ring.

Are you gonna take away Magic and Cousy's rings too?

lakersrock
06-12-2009, 10:09 AM
He wouldn't have without wade since wades stats was amazing. shaqs was nothing. but in the lakers championships compare Kobes stats to Shaqs.

One year it was like 30-15-3 and 29-7-6. So you really think taking off that 29-7-6 still equals a title? That doesn't even go into the fact he was really young and could play much better defense. It also lowers Shaq's PPG some due to Kobe making plays for him all the time. PLUS, Kobe being so good kept double teams away from Shaq. You can't take away the motor or body away from a car and it still work. You need both.

Sorry for the posts. I started posting and then saw other terrible posts that needed tending.

Duncan = Donkey
06-12-2009, 10:13 AM
top 10

S-Dot
06-12-2009, 10:28 AM
Top 10 guaranteed...I dont see him ever surpassing Jordan because LBJ, Dwight, and Melo are destined to get their share of rings soon...but he is definitely a top 10 player, maybe the 2nd best laker behind magic

DrDEADalready
06-12-2009, 10:33 AM
Are you gonna take away Magic and Cousy's rings too?

Why who was there big guy?

albertc86
06-12-2009, 10:33 AM
The way the Lakers are winning I wouldnt change too much. If Kobe has a brilliant game in their next win and caps off one of his best seasons ever I would say hes the 2nd best SG in the history of the league.

Just out of curiosity, who's the 2nd best as of now?

lakers4sho
06-12-2009, 10:47 AM
Why who was there big guy?

Abdul-Jabbar and Russell?? :eyebrow:

lakers4sho
06-12-2009, 10:48 AM
Just out of curiosity, who's the 2nd best as of now?

probably West or Oscar

Mc Uncle Cola
06-12-2009, 10:54 AM
evry one just hates on kobe...hes a great player one of the greatest of all time ...stop hatetin on him hes goin to win his 4th ring on sunday..give him some respect...

ertanozgur
06-12-2009, 10:54 AM
clearly top ten. 4 rings. 6 finals appearances. MVP. countless allstar appearances, 1st all nba and 1st team all defense. i still believe the best is yet to come. kobe will be top 3 (behind only Jordan and Kareem) when his career is over. i believe kobe will play another 10 seasons at a high level and win at least 3-4 more championships and get a couple more mvps. his father joe jelly bean played professional basketball at the age of 51. it was in europe, but still, he had the body and condition of a freak to play at a very old age.

as a Kobe fan , i wouldnt like him to play that much...i want him to retire at the top..i dont want to see a Kobe who cant make the playoffs or something like that

ertanozgur
06-12-2009, 10:57 AM
and i think it is pointless to disscuss where Kobe rank....mj , magic , kareem and the others...all played in different years and different positions...the defenses were way different...so we cant know who would be the best against the same defense or with the same teammates

DrDEADalready
06-12-2009, 10:58 AM
Abdul-Jabbar and Russell?? :eyebrow:

Oh...Sorry I'm not 40 so I don't remember way back then.

JJ81
06-12-2009, 11:11 AM
Like Reggie Miller said - he's already top 10 and this might put him into the top 5.

mfb_lt1birdman
06-12-2009, 11:24 AM
Are you gonna take away Magic and Cousy's rings too?


Why who was there big guy?

You just lost all credibility in anything you post EVER!

It is a legit question. Magic played with arguably the greatest center ever and noone ever, ever questions him earning his rings, and his legendary status.

JordansBulls
06-12-2009, 11:41 AM
It's actually 6.5 RPG, 1.25 SPG and 0.75 BPG.

Seeing that he is gonna win a title without a HOF on his team, he's in the Top 5 no argument against it. If he does it two or three more times, he'll be the best ever. That would give him as many or one more titles than Jordan and that's without two players that are as good as Pippen (HOF - Top 50) and Rodman.

Ridiculous!! Jordan 3 peated before Pippen was a top 50 player all time. In fact MJ's first title and last title Pippen wasn't even an allstar. In fact Gasol this year was an allstar and had a higher win share and PER than Pippen had in any of the Bulls title runs. In fact, Pippen didn't become top 50 until after the Bulls won there 4th title.
I find it funny you try to say Kobe did this without a Hall of Famer. Well I guess Shaq won 3 titles without a Hall of famer as well as Kobe wasn't a hall of famer by 2002.
Also Kobe had 3 hall of famers in 2004 but didn't win, so that even things out.

I find it funny that now we measure by who had a hall of famer or not. Of the teams that the Lakers beat in the playoffs, who of those teams actually had a hall of famer? None of them had 2 hall of famers.


Anyway should we rank Rick Barry over Magic because he won a title without even having an another allstar on his team? Or should we rank Wes Unseld over Kareem for winning with less talent?


You are measured by how you perform as an individual while winning and where you rank when you win. This will be the 1st time Kobe has won as the best on the team and the best in the league.

bal_ravens
06-12-2009, 11:42 AM
Probably top 15 player which is not too bad at all.

Boston Faithful
06-12-2009, 11:50 AM
no? I'm pretty sure LA would not have won without Kobe. Just like Miami without Wade. Shaq would not have won any championship without the likes of these two guards.

if you're going by that logic, then Wade "shouldn't" have a ring either.

Kobe and Wade have earned their rings and the whole "no 'chip with Shaq" is blown way out of proportion.

What's all this ******** about Kobe being better than Magic. Wow. Magic won 5 titles and was arguably the best on the latter 3. Kobe basically has one championship. Shaq got to the Finals with Penny, won one with Wade and substitute any All-Star guard that year and Shaq would have three-peated. Don't forget Glen Rice was almost as good as Kobe the first championship.

mser58
06-12-2009, 11:51 AM
probably 7 to 10

Guys that are better now:
Chamberlin
Jordan
Magic
Bird
KAJ
Big O
Russell
Shaq
Kobe
Baylor

domz248
06-12-2009, 11:54 AM
kobe will never get a ring witout shaq lolol:rolleyes:

bennypike
06-12-2009, 11:56 AM
Those rings are Shaq's not Kobe's....from here on out they are his. He is great, and the best player right now but those rings were 90% Shaq.

Joshtd1
06-12-2009, 12:14 PM
probably 7 to 10

Guys that are better now:
Chamberlin
Jordan
Magic
Bird
KAJ
Big O
Russell
Shaq
Kobe
Baylor

You can go ahead and add Duncan ot that list

lakersrock
06-12-2009, 01:17 PM
You can go ahead and add Duncan ot that list

...and take off Oscar, Russell and Baylor.

Lakersfan2483
06-12-2009, 04:21 PM
Ridiculous!! Jordan 3 peated before Pippen was a top 50 player all time. In fact MJ's first title and last title Pippen wasn't even an allstar. In fact Gasol this year was an allstar and had a higher win share and PER than Pippen had in any of the Bulls title runs. In fact, Pippen didn't become top 50 until after the Bulls won there 4th title.
I find it funny you try to say Kobe did this without a Hall of Famer. Well I guess Shaq won 3 titles without a Hall of famer as well as Kobe wasn't a hall of famer by 2002.
Also Kobe had 3 hall of famers in 2004 but didn't win, so that even things out.

I find it funny that now we measure by who had a hall of famer or not. Of the teams that the Lakers beat in the playoffs, who of those teams actually had a hall of famer? None of them had 2 hall of famers.


Anyway should we rank Rick Barry over Magic because he won a title without even having an another allstar on his team? Or should we rank Wes Unseld over Kareem for winning with less talent?


You are measured by how you perform as an individual while winning and where you rank when you win. This will be the 1st time Kobe has won as the best on the team and the best in the league.


Pippen was an all-star talent in 91 clearly, I watched all of those games back then, he was an all league defender and great in the open court. In fact, his numbers in the finals were great against the Lakers (He avg. 20 plus a game, had an impact defensively, he was one of the leading rebounders and second to Jordan in assists, steals, major factor in the Bulls winning). His defense on Magic was also one of the major reasons the Bulls won. In 92, Pippen made the "Dream Team" and was widely regarded as one of the league's best players. Pippen was top 50 prior to the Bulls 4th ring, he clearly established himself during the Bulls' 3peat and it's not even debatable....

JordansBulls
06-12-2009, 04:35 PM
Pippen was an all-star talent in 91 clearly, I watched all of those games back then, he was an all league defender and great in the open court. In fact, his numbers in the finals were great against the Lakers (He avg. 20 plus a game, had an impact defensively, he was one of the leading rebounders and second to Jordan in assists, steals, major factor in the Bulls winning). His defense on Magic was also one of the major reasons the Bulls won. In 92, Pippen made the "Dream Team" and was widely regarded as one of the league's best players. Pippen was top 50 prior to the Bulls 4th ring, he clearly established himself during the Bulls' 3peat and it's not even debatable....

It wasn't until 1992 that people recognized Pippen as a star.
He made the Dream Team because Jordan asked for him to be on that team or he wasn't going to play. And being an allstar talent isn't the same as being an allstar.
Essentially speaking Jordan did for Pippen what Kobe is doing for Ariza. And they can do that because they play similar positions. Remember how raw Ariza was in Orlando? He became a key contributor on LA in just a short time. Pippen essentially was the same way. The reason Pippen grew quicker was because there was no other star on the team other than MJ. Kobe still had Gasol so it wasn't as necessary for Ariza to turn into a star.

Now I'm not saying Pippen wasn't a top 50 player, he was in fact a top 25-30 player all time. However people have the notion that he was always a top 50 player that MJ had. I could see Pippen being a top 50 player by 1996 and a hall of famer, but during the 1st 3 peat he was not a hall of famer or top 50 player.
In fact, imagine Gasol winning 3 titles on LA. He would have a good case for being top 50 all time. In fact with 2 titles you can say he was good enough for the hall of fame considering his international play and gold medal winning. Winning does that even if you are the 2nd option on a team the entire time.