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View Full Version : The REAL reason Cleveland failed this year



HouRealCoach
06-10-2009, 01:46 AM
They did not make one freaking trade.....

They should have used Szczerbiak's expiring cause he did nothing anyways. Maybe trade Szczerbiak, Hickson, Pavlovic, 2nd Rounder for Brad Miller, and Salmons. See how much more success the Bulls had? They couldve even used Eric Snow's contract(7mil expiring). Just like when they passed on Jason Kidd and Mike Bibby in the previous years. I knew Houston couldnt do it with just T-Mac and Yao so they used their Expiring(Bobby Jackson) to get Ron Artest. Danny Ferry is overrated, Mo Williams is a great 6th Man and is overrated he is no All-Star and Cleveland isnt as good as their record but Lebron James is. now they have a chance at Free agency and can still make trades and like I said they passed up on a great trade.

Ilgauskas/ Miller/ Wright
Varejao/ Wallace/ Smith/ Jackson
Lebron/ Kinsey
Salmons/ West
Williams/ Boobie

And probably trade Eric Snow for someone to boost up the backup wing players.

Im just telling the truth now their choices are limited to Shaq, Randolph, Boozer, Villanueva, Wallace, and well thats about it the best two to go after are Villanueva and Boozer. but Danny Ferry will probably only get someone like Channing Frye(LOL) at the best.

abe_froman
06-10-2009, 02:10 AM
naw they'll go all out if they have to.need to do everything to keep lebron happy and wanting to stay

NBA_Starter
06-10-2009, 02:12 AM
naw they'll go all out if they have to.need to do everything to keep lebron happy and wanting to stay

I agree.:cheers:

CELTICS4LYFE
06-10-2009, 09:55 AM
or how bout cuz z is the softest center in the nba!!!! they never gunna win wit out an inside presence

lakers4sho
06-10-2009, 10:10 AM
What's with all these deals for 2nd rate players?? Seriously if you want LeBron to get a ring add another All-Star to the team!! He's been given all sorts of players, but guess what, THEY ALWAYS FALL SHORT!!!

Stormy
06-10-2009, 10:14 AM
Yeah, blame it on Danny Ferry.

Unruly Fan
06-10-2009, 10:18 AM
Clevelands success was based on team chemistry. Im sure management didn't want to ruin anything by changing anything. Lopsided matchup problems led to their demise...

icon1914
06-10-2009, 10:22 AM
I agree that Mo Williams is a very solid starter, or sixth man... but the Cavs really need a low post all star... kinda like what Pau Gasol is for the Lakers. Someone with solid defense and the ability to score in the post.

Not really sure what type of player is available for them to pursue that can fill that role, but they need to get creative. Maybe try and get Jamison, or sign Boozer back. A team full of streaky shooters will not get them over the hump.

JordansBulls
06-10-2009, 10:25 AM
How the hell is a guy who just made the allstar team this year a 6th man?


Anyway the reason the Cavs failed is because they had the wrong guy defending Hedo. Lebron should have defended him as Hedo plays his position. There was no need to defend Rafer who is going to take himself out of the game.

prodigy
06-10-2009, 10:39 AM
I agree that Mo Williams is a very solid starter, or sixth man... but the Cavs really need a low post all star... kinda like what Pau Gasol is for the Lakers. Someone with solid defense and the ability to score in the post.

Not really sure what type of player is available for them to pursue that can fill that role, but they need to get creative. Maybe try and get Jamison, or sign Boozer back. A team full of streaky shooters will not get them over the hump.


same reason the magic will lose. live by the 3, die by the 3.

Did you call mo williams a sixth man? lol, no.

I think the cavs will get wallace, and also trade for a center, someone like kamen.

icon1914
06-10-2009, 10:50 AM
same reason the magic will lose. live by the 3, die by the 3.

Did you call mo williams a sixth man? lol, no.

I think the cavs will get wallace, and also trade for a center, someone like kamen.

Yes.... I did call him a sixth man... I also called him a solid starter.... what I will not fool myself to believing is that he is the second option that the cavs need to get over the hump. He had the points in the series... but his shot selection was terrible at times... but when you are needed to be the "second option" you have take shots... he was not knocking them down like he should have...even wide open ones.

If the Cavs brought in a real second option, low post presence, I believe Mo Williams would actually be more effective, but they need more than him to win.

MagicBucsSox
06-10-2009, 10:50 AM
they lost because orlando had more points in 4games before they did. im sick of the excuses for a 66win team.get over it

IndiansFan337
06-10-2009, 10:50 AM
I hope they target these F/A's, in this order:

1. Shawn Marion
2. Carlos Boozer (if he opts out)
3. Grant Hill
4. Rasheed Wallace

Wen it comes to trades, I wouldn't be opposed to acquiring Shaq or Chris Kaman. I want nothing to do with Zach Randolph. There might be some other guys available that most of us don't expect to be, due to the economy & the frenzy to eliminate guaranteed salary leading up to the summer of 2010.

bogmon
06-10-2009, 10:54 AM
They lost 'cuz Z is so broken down and slow he couldn't beat D.Howard to one loose ball....and Varejao is just a floppy clown-shoe who's only real talent is drawing phantom charge calls....

Lebron and Mo Williams are the only guys on that team worth keeping....I say blow the whole thing up (like Boston did a couple seasons ago) and stack it with guys that really want a ring and know that James can take them there.

Seriously, Lebron already made the Finals once with a crap team.....this guy needs like one or two more pieces and he can win a title no problem.

#24forPrez
06-10-2009, 10:55 AM
The cavs suck they havent been great all year why because they couldnt beat boston orlando or la in the regular season and i knew who ever won the boston and orlando series they where going to kill the cavs its lebron with a bunch of players who would come off the bench for other teams do you really think any of those other starters on the cavs would start for teams like the lakers magic and boston no they wouldnt

icon1914
06-10-2009, 11:01 AM
How the hell is a guy who just made the allstar team this year a 6th man?


Anyway the reason the Cavs failed is because they had the wrong guy defending Hedo. Lebron should have defended him as Hedo plays his position. There was no need to defend Rafer who is going to take himself out of the game.

When the "allstar" shots 37% in the conference finals and becomes a liability at times when he was on the floor, his stock drops.

And making the allstar team is not the promise land or anything. He was a big part of one the winningest teams in the NBA, he had solid numbers... sure he was getting voted in by the coaches. Hell John Starks made the all star team one year.

I'm not saying he should be benched, but maybe he is not the second option he needs to be... Should he start... yes.... should they try to find another second option.... hell yes.

As for Hedo... it was poor defense... but its hard to stop a team when they have two 6 10 guys that can shoot, and you have two guys under 6 4.... a few screens and picks... Hedo and Lewis are both shooting over Willams and West, or blowing past slow Varejo.

They created a matchup nightmare.

koreancabbage
06-10-2009, 11:07 AM
I hope they target these F/A's, in this order:

1. Shawn Marion
2. Carlos Boozer (if he opts out)
3. Grant Hill
4. Rasheed Wallace

Wen it comes to trades, I wouldn't be opposed to acquiring Shaq or Chris Kaman. I want nothing to do with Zach Randolph. There might be some other guys available that most of us don't expect to be, due to the economy & the frenzy to eliminate guaranteed salary leading up to the summer of 2010.

the only way you can get the first two is a sign and trade. Cleveland is already paying luxury tax and that is without a championship. Its also another way for the two players to get the salary they want. Cleveland has nothing that the Raptors want. i don't know about Utah.


Hill and Wallace, MLE would probably do. Even if Boozer opts out, Cleveland would not be dumb enough to be like the knicks and sign him. Their salary would be $100M plus and a championship is still not guaranteed. he's going to command more money if he opts out .. .DUH!

king4day
06-10-2009, 11:12 AM
That Shaq trade was a Wally Z expiring contract away from happening. They didn't want to do it cuz they thought he was a key part of their success.

They should revisit that again. Shaq for Wallace/Pav/Hickson. We'll buy out Pav and they can resign him if they want.

JordansBulls
06-10-2009, 11:13 AM
When the "allstar" shots 37% in the conference finals and becomes a liability at times when he was on the floor, his stock drops.

And making the allstar team is not the promise land or anything. He was a big part of one the winningest teams in the NBA, he had solid numbers... sure he was getting voted in by the coaches. Hell John Starks made the all star team one year.

I'm not saying he should be benched, but maybe he is not the second option he needs to be... Should he start... yes.... should they try to find another second option.... hell yes.

As for Hedo... it was poor defense... but its hard to stop a team when they have two 6 10 guys that can shoot, and you have two guys under 6 4.... a few screens and picks... Hedo and Lewis are both shooting over Willams and West, or blowing past slow Varejo.

They created a matchup nightmare.

Maybe because Lebron should have been defending Hedo. After all Hedo plays SF just like Lebron. That is why the Cavs lost. You can't put West or Mo on Hedo and expect to have success when you know Hedo will shoot right over them and he loves to take the 3. Come on now that was a just a plain bad strategy period.

hops555
06-10-2009, 11:14 AM
JOhn Salomons is a scrub...4get him

Lebron James is not the best basketball player ever, he is not that amazing, the media is making him look like a god just so they can market him....he is just a great player, like howard, kobe, T-Mac w/ the magic (he was just as good with the magic one year as lebron was with clevland both being one men shows)

The bottom line nobody is good enough to win on their own....they need other Star players (not west, mo wiliams, salomons)
Kobe had- Shaq , then Pao

Garnet- Allen- Peirce

Shaq had- Kobe then Wade

Duncan had Robinson- then Manu/Parker

Jordan had - Pippen

Magic and Kareem

Bird and Mchale

BigAl25
06-10-2009, 11:22 AM
The Cavlaliers will always be a contender as long as they have Lebron James.

JordansBulls
06-10-2009, 11:25 AM
JOhn Salomons is a scrub...4get him

Lebron James is not the best basketball player ever, he is not that amazing, the media is making him look like a god just so they can market him....he is just a great player, like howard, kobe, T-Mac w/ the magic (he was just as good with the magic one year as lebron was with clevland both being one men shows)

The bottom line nobody is good enough to win on their own....they need other Star players (not west, mo wiliams, salomons)
Kobe had- Shaq , then Pao

Garnet- Allen- Peirce

Shaq had- Kobe then Wade

Duncan had Robinson- then Manu/Parker

Jordan had - Pippen

Magic and Kareem

Bird and Mchale

What does this have to do with any other all time great?

Lebron had an allstar on his team in Mo williams. And if you are using that he shot 37% well Lebron shot 35% last year against Boston, so does that mean he was not a star?

IndyRealist
06-10-2009, 01:25 PM
The Cavs need to trade Sasha Pavlovic, Ben Wallace, JJ Hickson, and two lottery protected first rounders, for Antwan Jamison and Caron Butler. The Cavs get the firepower they need, the Wizards get cap relief, young players, and draft picks to build around Arenas.

PG - Mo Williams/Daniel Gibson
SG - Caron Butler/Delonte West
SF - Lebron James/Caron Butler/Antwan Jamison
PF - Antwan Jamison/Anderson Varejao
C - Zydrunas Ilgauskas/Anderson Varejao

Draft a SF/PF this year, and get a C with the midlevel exception.

CELTICS4LYFE
06-10-2009, 01:31 PM
TEAM WORK GUYS!!!!! when u watch cle everything is james james james james wit other players standing watching an waiting.....remind anyone of ai???

Bg7getclutch
06-10-2009, 01:32 PM
How the hell is a guy who just made the allstar team this year a 6th man?


Anyway the reason the Cavs failed is because they had the wrong guy defending Hedo. Lebron should have defended him as Hedo plays his position. There was no need to defend Rafer who is going to take himself out of the game.

He didnt really make it, the only reason why he made it was because jameer nelson was injured.

IndyRealist
06-10-2009, 01:48 PM
He didnt really make it, the only reason why he made it was because jameer nelson was injured.

AND Devin Harris was injured, too.

Iron24th
06-10-2009, 01:53 PM
or how bout cuz z is the softest center in the nba!!!! they never gunna win wit out an inside presence

Agreed.

Iron24th
06-10-2009, 01:56 PM
The Cavs need to trade Sasha Pavlovic, Ben Wallace, JJ Hickson, and two lottery protected first rounders, for Antwan Jamison and Caron Butler. The Cavs get the firepower they need, the Wizards get cap relief, young players, and draft picks to build around Arenas.

PG - Mo Williams/Daniel Gibson
SG - Caron Butler/Delonte West
SF - Lebron James/Caron Butler/Antwan Jamison
PF - Antwan Jamison/Anderson Varejao
C - Zydrunas Ilgauskas/Anderson Varejao

Draft a SF/PF this year, and get a C with the midlevel exception.

Do you think the whole wizzards organisation can be raped like this???:speechless:

And your name is IndyRealist ????:cry:

bluesickle
06-10-2009, 02:08 PM
The Cavlaliers will always be a contender as long as they have Lebron James. That only gives them one more year. After that, back to being in the stone ages.

J-Relo
06-10-2009, 02:10 PM
wow this tread maker is so smart

Chronz
06-10-2009, 02:43 PM
How the hell is a guy who just made the allstar team this year a 6th man?


Anyway the reason the Cavs failed is because they had the wrong guy defending Hedo. Lebron should have defended him as Hedo plays his position. There was no need to defend Rafer who is going to take himself out of the game.
Because hes not a true All-Star

Chronz
06-10-2009, 02:47 PM
Maybe because Lebron should have been defending Hedo. After all Hedo plays SF just like Lebron. That is why the Cavs lost. You can't put West or Mo on Hedo and expect to have success when you know Hedo will shoot right over them and he loves to take the 3. Come on now that was a just a plain bad strategy period.

How do you know it was bad strategy? Havent you ever heard of crossmatching for roaming purposes?

Lakersfan2483
06-10-2009, 03:24 PM
The Cavs need to trade Sasha Pavlovic, Ben Wallace, JJ Hickson, and two lottery protected first rounders, for Antwan Jamison and Caron Butler. The Cavs get the firepower they need, the Wizards get cap relief, young players, and draft picks to build around Arenas.

PG - Mo Williams/Daniel Gibson
SG - Caron Butler/Delonte West
SF - Lebron James/Caron Butler/Antwan Jamison
PF - Antwan Jamison/Anderson Varejao
C - Zydrunas Ilgauskas/Anderson Varejao

Draft a SF/PF this year, and get a C with the midlevel exception.

:speechless: Why would the Wizards trade two all star players for scrubs and lottery picks that may or may not pan out? The Wizards front office is not foolish enough to make that type of a one-sided deal.

Lakersfan2483
06-10-2009, 03:27 PM
Maybe because Lebron should have been defending Hedo. After all Hedo plays SF just like Lebron. That is why the Cavs lost. You can't put West or Mo on Hedo and expect to have success when you know Hedo will shoot right over them and he loves to take the 3. Come on now that was a just a plain bad strategy period.

I felt like that was a mistake also, one of the many coaching mistakes Brown made in that series. Why in the world would a coach leave Delonte West (6'3) on a small forward as talented offensively as Hedo? He just had a terrible game plan and should have had James sticking Hedo.

IndyRealist
06-10-2009, 03:36 PM
:speechless: Why would the Wizards trade two all star players for scrubs and lottery picks that may or may not pan out? The Wizards front office is not foolish enough to make that type of a one-sided deal.

They have 3 major players tied to long term contracts, and they're in the luxury tax already, not including upcoming draft picks. If they're not above .500 by the trade deadline, this deal will look pretty good for them.

This is how you rebuild in the salary cap era, people. Trade your long term contracts for expirings, young players still on their rookie scale contracts, and draft picks. This deal puts them UNDER the cap by about $28M in 2010, allowing them to pursue free agents to surround Arenas with.

JordansBulls
06-10-2009, 03:37 PM
How do you know it was bad strategy? Havent you ever heard of crossmatching for roaming purposes?

That works when the Center is a dominant big man. Dwight isn't really that. He is not someone you worry single handedly beating you. You must stay home on the shooters for Orlando. That was just terrible strategy. Rafer will take himself out of the game, no need to put your best defender on him.

JordansBulls
06-10-2009, 03:38 PM
Because hes not a true All-Star

Sure he was.

zachsaints52
06-10-2009, 03:48 PM
That works when the Center is a dominant big man. Dwight isn't really that. He is not someone you worry single handedly beating you. You must stay home on the shooters for Orlando. That was just terrible strategy. Rafer will take himself out of the game, no need to put your best defender on him.

They put James on Rafer because it helped them two ways. First James has to do everything on the offense so he rests during D. You really think he would have put up those gawdy numbers if he had to play D the entire time on someone like Hedo? Plus it also helped Z down low trying to stop Howard, because like everyone knows, Z is a pus who wants to stand around the 3 point line instead of making his contract by pushing with Howard. Wallace says he might be retiring, if so thats 16mil I think off the cap.

RueDaTruth
06-10-2009, 03:54 PM
Cleveland Lost because Mike Brown cannot coach. His inability to make in game adjustments is Why they lost. Look at when they were in the finals they didnt even win a game. Yeah they didnt have the talent to compete but you dont get swept. Until they make a coaching change they wont win anything

Chronz
06-10-2009, 05:54 PM
Sure he was.
Not even close, let me guess BJ Armstrong was a heck of an All-Star, Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant were more All-Star worthy than he was in 1990.


That works when the Center is a dominant big man. Dwight isn't really that. He is not someone you worry single handedly beating you. You must stay home on the shooters for Orlando. That was just terrible strategy. Rafer will take himself out of the game, no need to put your best defender on him.
I was with you up until that last part, Bron ISNT guarding Rafer. Hes counting on Rafer sucking that he will take himself out of the game, instead hes helping on all the PnR action that his bigmen obviously cant keep up with. It was ultimately their offense that failed them. Its not as if Bron didnt take turns guarding Hedo in the series. But the point of the defensive gameplan is lost to you if you think they have bron guarding rafer. And what do you mean Dwight was dominant, roaming works when you need help on any given possession.

dtmagnet
06-10-2009, 06:01 PM
They have 3 major players tied to long term contracts, and they're in the luxury tax already, not including upcoming draft picks. If they're not above .500 by the trade deadline, this deal will look pretty good for them.

This is how you rebuild in the salary cap era, people. Trade your long term contracts for expirings, young players still on their rookie scale contracts, and draft picks. This deal puts them UNDER the cap by about $28M in 2010, allowing them to pursue free agents to surround Arenas with.

There are easier ways of getting under the cap while not trading their core star players. They aren't rebuilding so your entire idea is pointless, plus if they were rebuilding they could get way more for those two players than simple expiring contracts and late draft picks.

dtmagnet
06-10-2009, 06:02 PM
Sure he was.

I thought Turkoglu deserved to go more than him.

_Sn1P3r_
06-10-2009, 06:11 PM
They lost because they couldn't guard Dwight which then led to shooters getting good shots up. Varejao had trouble with Shard too.

Missing56&33
06-10-2009, 06:26 PM
I think a lot of NBA players are not exactly thrilled with the idea of playing in Cleveland. NY will be the main destination in 2010. Really I dont think the FA's in this years market will get cleveland a championship. Boozer is not coming back, Rasheed Wallace :pity:.... I dont think so, I think the team they had was capable but they choked under pressure. MO Williams made a fool of himself and WS is a bum. They needed to step up to playoff pressure but couldn't. I say bring everybody back and give it one more try that way Lebron should really be pissed off and jet.

S.J.Basketball
06-10-2009, 06:31 PM
Whatever. How about they tucked their tails in between their legs in the Conference Finals. They HAD the talent, but didn't man up and do what they had to do. Period.

Chronz
06-10-2009, 06:41 PM
Whatever. How about they tucked their tails in between their legs in the Conference Finals. They HAD the talent, but didn't man up and do what they had to do. Period.
Thats not the kind of talent you want surrounding your best player to win a title. Thats the point

I dont think the Cavs have to totally revamp, just that we acknowledge these players for what they are and what they arent. Mo Williams is not an All-Star, making the All-Star team doesnt make you one, look at Deron Williams, are you going to say hes not an All-Star because hes never made the team while Mo Williams has?

MJB has this computer like way of thinking where external factors outside of actual on court performance skew his way of thinking. I wouldnt be surprised if he felt if Mo Williams and Deron Williams were to be traded for one another the Utah Jazz would win the trade because 1 A.S. > 0 A.S.

mrblisterdundee
06-10-2009, 06:46 PM
Cleveland failed because they don't have any legitimate post scorers besides LeBron James. Cleveland needs an offensively-adept power forward. That's why there are all those threads out there saying they need to pick up Carlos Boozer or Amare Stoudemire. Personally, I think Cleveland should snatch up David Lee. He's the same age as Mo Williams, Delonte West, and Anderson Verajao. He's played center, so you know he's rugged enough to be a power forward. Finally, he passes well. Lee is almost the perfect fit for the Cavaliers.

ko8e24
06-10-2009, 08:50 PM
or how bout cuz z is the softest center in the nba!!!! they never gunna win wit out an inside presence

Ok, stop abusing the word soft. Big Z is not soft, he's a finesse player, like gasol. There is a tremendous difference between soft and finesse. So quit abusing the man! He will be remembered a decent center who played the center position the right way once he is retired.


Cavs lost cuz they had a mixture of old/slow players and young/immature(camera pre-intro photoshoot nonsense etc., claiming they'll win before they actually win lol), and an pompous, arrogant (skillful, but the greatest player in NBA history who really hasn't proven anything yet) Lebron James. If you're leader is not mature, you ain't going no where. Kobe was not mature those first couple of seasons after shaq left, thus, zero success.

BOSSKOJIE
06-10-2009, 09:23 PM
THE reason Cleveland failed this year? THEY TALK ALOT OF TRASH ESPECIALLY MO Williams........YOU GUYS DESERVE THIS ***!!!!!

BOSSKOJIE
06-10-2009, 09:25 PM
SOOOOO WHO'S IN THE FINAL NOW MO Williams?

dodie53
06-10-2009, 09:53 PM
cavs should abandon their idea of putting delonte at the 2.
their backcourt is to small

icon1914
06-10-2009, 10:35 PM
Maybe because Lebron should have been defending Hedo. After all Hedo plays SF just like Lebron. That is why the Cavs lost. You can't put West or Mo on Hedo and expect to have success when you know Hedo will shoot right over them and he loves to take the 3. Come on now that was a just a plain bad strategy period.

I'm not hailing Mike Brown's coaching, or strategy... but even if he put Lebron on Hedo full time, a few picks and screens Hedo, or Lewis, would have ended up in a mismatch against West, Williams, of Verajo from time to time.

Such a short back court will always be exploited by a team with two shooters measuring in at 6'10.

In the end the Cavs needed to perform better. Most of the team just disappeared at key moments.

IndyRealist
06-10-2009, 10:39 PM
There are easier ways of getting under the cap while not trading their core star players. They aren't rebuilding so your entire idea is pointless, plus if they were rebuilding they could get way more for those two players than simple expiring contracts and late draft picks.

What easier ways would that be, exactly? In 2010 they have $41.5 million tied up in three players, Arenas, Butler, and Jamison. They're at $75 million in salary for 2009 and the luxury tax line is going to drop, so they're looking at $5-7 million in penalties next season.

As I said in my original post, if they're under .500 by the trade deadline, that deal is going to look pretty tempting. They could send DeShawn Stevenson back in that trade and it'd still work, they'd save $4 million in salary plus $4 million in luxury tax. Why pay luxury tax for a team that isn't going to make the playoffs? If they're a top 3 team in the East next season, more power to them. But if they don't do well next season, and they're paying all this money and players aren't performing, and everybody gets a year older....

Kabowdos
06-10-2009, 10:51 PM
Cavs lost because the Magic are a better team.

Magic outplayed them the entire series. They were on fire from three. Cavs were definitely out coached, which is sad because I don't think either coach is that good. I don't care what anyone says.

Like I said time and time before, the Cavs are too inexperienced to win a championship. You see by the way they handle themselves in interviews, on and off the court, and the way they celebrate. I mean let's be real... has any team that creates fake photo shoots or stupid scenes won a championship? It just shows a lack of focus. Why are they spending time on that... they should spend it on the game plan.

lilboytwister99
06-10-2009, 10:59 PM
If there was a trade the Cavs should have made, it should have been for SHAQ! Now I don't recall who they would have given up, but Shaq would have definitely added the artillery needed for them to go the distance.

Imagine if the Cavs added Shaq, beat Orlando, and then we would have seen a Shaq vs. Kobe finals. Good stuff.

If Lebron doesn't get any help this offseason, I wouldn't blame him for seeking free agency. I know where he's gonna go, but hey, the Big Apple needs a Superstar!

JordansBulls
06-10-2009, 11:11 PM
Cavs lost because the Magic are a better team.

Magic outplayed them the entire series.

The Cavs may have been outplayed but they were the better team. Magic just upset them.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=26749



Josh (Los Angeles, CA): The Cavs didn?t match up well with Orlando, now all of a sudden Big Z (PER 18.03), Mo (17.25) and Delonte (14.16) aren?t a good supporting cast and Rashard (16.83), Hedo (14.82), and Pietrus (11.69) are studs?


http://a.espncdn.com/i/sn2.gif Chad Ford: It's the style of play. The way the Magic spread the floor was a challenge for guys like Ben Wallace and Z to guard. When Varejao got in foul trouble, they struggled to keep up.






The Cavs had the best record all year, they had the highest point differential in winning, they had the highest SRS rating. In the playoffs they won the first 2 rounds by 10+ points in every game and even in the playoffs the

Cavs have a 8.5 pts per game differential which is the highest in the postseason this year.

The Cavs were cruising while the Magic were getting outplayed and down in the series to the Sixers initially and the Celtics without KG and then you expect me to believe that Orlando was the better team all along? I just don't buy that all and really it is just an excuse because the Cavs lost.

Also lets not forget the Cavs were up each game at home of the 3 games by more than 20+ points each time.

http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/th_CavsvsMagicSeries.jpg


http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/matchup/_/teams/magic-cavaliers

BigAl25
06-10-2009, 11:39 PM
JOhn Salomons is a scrub...4get him

Lebron James is not the best basketball player ever, he is not that amazing, the media is making him look like a god just so they can market him....he is just a great player, like howard, kobe, T-Mac w/ the magic (he was just as good with the magic one year as lebron was with clevland both being one men shows)

The bottom line nobody is good enough to win on their own....they need other Star players (not west, mo wiliams, salomons)
Kobe had- Shaq , then Pao

Garnet- Allen- Peirce

Shaq had- Kobe then Wade

Duncan had Robinson- then Manu/Parker

Jordan had - Pippen

Magic and Kareem

Bird and Mchale

Another hater like skip bayless
:(

Gro_Da_Fro_Back
06-11-2009, 01:29 AM
Is Eric Snow still alive?

pippsux
06-11-2009, 02:09 AM
Every team has a team that for whatever reason matchup against them. The Magic were a bad matchup for the Cavs.

ARMIN12NBA
06-11-2009, 04:48 AM
Every team has a team that for whatever reason matchup against them. The Magic were a bad matchup for the Cavs.

Exactly. It has been that way for a couple years. The Cavs just could not matchup with the Magic and the Magic took advantage of all their "advantages" in the series and played great. Nothing much the Cavs could do except try their best. Lets see how they respond this off-season in terms of acquisitions.

CELTICS4LYFE
06-11-2009, 09:08 AM
Ok, stop abusing the word soft. Big Z is not soft, he's a finesse player, like gasol. There is a tremendous difference between soft and finesse. So quit abusing the man! He will be remembered a decent center who played the center position the right way once he is retired.


Cavs lost cuz they had a mixture of old/slow players and young/immature(camera pre-intro photoshoot nonsense etc., claiming they'll win before they actually win lol), and an pompous, arrogant (skillful, but the greatest player in NBA history who really hasn't proven anything yet) Lebron James. If you're leader is not mature, you ain't going no where. Kobe was not mature those first couple of seasons after shaq left, thus, zero success.

finesse yes.....but still soft lol the guy avg 8 r n less than a block a game these playoffs....n he's 7'3...so ill say it agian they need a inside presence

Chronz
06-11-2009, 04:01 PM
The Cavs may have been outplayed but they were the better team. Magic just upset them.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=26749




The Cavs had the best record all year, they had the highest point differential in winning, they had the highest SRS rating. In the playoffs they won the first 2 rounds by 10+ points in every game and even in the playoffs the

Cavs have a 8.5 pts per game differential which is the highest in the postseason this year.

The Cavs were cruising while the Magic were getting outplayed and down in the series to the Sixers initially and the Celtics without KG and then you expect me to believe that Orlando was the better team all along? I just don't buy that all and really it is just an excuse because the Cavs lost.

Also lets not forget the Cavs were up each game at home of the 3 games by more than 20+ points each time.

http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/th_CavsvsMagicSeries.jpg


http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/matchup/_/teams/magic-cavaliers

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=broussard_chris&page=CavsEliminated-090531

Read this and thats all you need to know. The Magic were the better team, Cavs had the more regular season wins. Recognize the difference.

Chronz
06-11-2009, 04:21 PM
Just in case you didnt read it:



The Cavs are the only team in the NBA that's even close to title contention with only one star.

The Lakers have Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol and a star-quality talent in Lamar Odom, not to mention the developing Andrew Bynum. The Magic have Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu -- the three best players in this series after LeBron -- not to mention injured All-Star Jameer Nelson.

The Nuggets have Carmelo Anthony and Chauncey Billups. Houston has Yao Ming and Ron Artest (and Tracy McGrady). San Antonio has Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. Boston has Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.

The Cavs?

The Eastern Conference coaches, a group that places winning above all else, did not vote any of LeBron's teammates to the All-Star team even though the Cavs had the best record in the league at the time. That tells you what the coaches think of Cleveland's talent. It was NBA commissioner David Stern, not the coaches, who made Mo Williams an All-Star replacement for Nelson.




And more


Williams, the closest thing James has to a star sidekick, is very good. But he may not even be one of the league's top 10 point guards.

Delonte West, who played well on Saturday, is ideally a first guard off the bench, a tough, skilled player who can man both guard spots. But at just 6-foot-3, he's too small to start at shooting guard, especially next to the 6-1 Williams.

Varejao is also ideally suited for coming off the bench as an energy guy, unless he's playing next to a powerful force such as Howard. But he's playing next to Ilgauskas, who will turn 34 years old next week and has become strictly a finesse player.

And the main bench guys -- Ben Wallace, Joe Smith and Szczerbiak -- are all at the tail end of their careers.

Criticize Brown all you want, but he threw everything imaginable at Orlando. Without a big man who could guard Howard one-on-one -- such as Detroit's Rasheed Wallace or Boston's Kendrick Perkins -- and with just one long, athletic defender (LeBron), the Cavs simply didn't have the personnel to stop the Magic.

Lakersfan2483
06-11-2009, 04:58 PM
A lot of excuses about why the Cavs didn't win, they had opportunities to win the series, but didn't captialize. In game 1, they had a 21 point lead at the half and proceeded to lose the game. They definitely should have won that game, if they win that game, they most likely win the series. They also had an opportunity to win in Game 4 and failed to do so in overtime. Most of the games were winnable for Cleveland, but they failed to execute at the end and as I highlighted in the beginning, they lost a game that they had no business losing. They should have won game 1., they win game 1 and it's an entirely different series.

Chronz
06-11-2009, 05:04 PM
But they didnt capitalize because they werent good enough, those arent the kind of players you want around your star.

nouveauAG
06-11-2009, 05:14 PM
They just need another all-star. One man can't win a title. Especially today where teams have 2 or more contributing players that show up every night. Lebron needs as sidekick, and another solid player.

Southsideheat
06-11-2009, 05:31 PM
The real reason Cleveland lost is because they had the worst #2 guy for a 60 win team in history in Mo Williams.

tr3ymill3r
06-11-2009, 05:44 PM
Why can't we give credit to Orlando? That series really wasn't ever really close or interesting, there was the playoff drama that ever series consists of. The only thing that made the series interesting was LeBron losing. The Cavs were the best REGULAR season team and rolled through Detroit and Atlanta, so why can't we just appreciate what the Magic were able to accomplish? I agree they should have made trades but that's after the season, during the season they were on fire and didn't want to mess with chemistry. It was all about the matchup, and Orlando owns Cleveland. They weren't going to break up a team midseason that's won all but 2 homegames, in hindsight they probably should have but you can't win games after the season. Orlando won the series, LeBron didn't lose it.

azkarraga
06-11-2009, 06:01 PM
TEAM WORK GUYS!!!!! when u watch cle everything is james james james james wit other players standing watching an waiting.....remind anyone of ai???

x2.

ko8e24
06-11-2009, 06:44 PM
CAVS need to make sure they get some good free agents. I think singing elite guards like Sun Yue and Coby Karl and Hall of Fame big men Mark Madsen and Popeye Jones should get them over the hump for the 2010 chip. I wouldn't wanna face the team that they already have, and then when you add those guys, damn!


On a serious note, tr3ymill3r is right, Orlando was the better team and they deserve credit where credit is due, beat the snot out of cleveland in the regular season, and did so likewise in the ECF. Orlando was a much better TEAM at the end of the day. Plain and simple.

(Oh, and the magic's loud, annoying, yet entertaining head coach beat out the cavs' ability to take some awesome group pictures!)

JordansBulls
06-11-2009, 07:33 PM
Just in case you didnt read it:



The Cavs are the only team in the NBA that's even close to title contention with only one star.

The Lakers have Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol and a star-quality talent in Lamar Odom, not to mention the developing Andrew Bynum. The Magic have Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu -- the three best players in this series after LeBron -- not to mention injured All-Star Jameer Nelson.

The Nuggets have Carmelo Anthony and Chauncey Billups. Houston has Yao Ming and Ron Artest (and Tracy McGrady). San Antonio has Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. Boston has Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.

The Cavs?

The Eastern Conference coaches, a group that places winning above all else, did not vote any of LeBron's teammates to the All-Star team even though the Cavs had the best record in the league at the time. That tells you what the coaches think of Cleveland's talent. It was NBA commissioner David Stern, not the coaches, who made Mo Williams an All-Star replacement for Nelson.




And more


Williams, the closest thing James has to a star sidekick, is very good. But he may not even be one of the league's top 10 point guards.

Delonte West, who played well on Saturday, is ideally a first guard off the bench, a tough, skilled player who can man both guard spots. But at just 6-foot-3, he's too small to start at shooting guard, especially next to the 6-1 Williams.

Varejao is also ideally suited for coming off the bench as an energy guy, unless he's playing next to a powerful force such as Howard. But he's playing next to Ilgauskas, who will turn 34 years old next week and has become strictly a finesse player.

And the main bench guys -- Ben Wallace, Joe Smith and Szczerbiak -- are all at the tail end of their careers.

Criticize Brown all you want, but he threw everything imaginable at Orlando. Without a big man who could guard Howard one-on-one -- such as Detroit's Rasheed Wallace or Boston's Kendrick Perkins -- and with just one long, athletic defender (LeBron), the Cavs simply didn't have the personnel to stop the Magic.


One Star???

http://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2009.html

2 Stars here. He also had Ben Wallace, Szczerbiak and Big Z.

ElGuapoIsKing
06-11-2009, 08:15 PM
The cavs suck they havent been great all year why because they couldnt beat boston orlando or la in the regular season and i knew who ever won the boston and orlando series they where going to kill the cavs its lebron with a bunch of players who would come off the bench for other teams do you really think any of those other starters on the cavs would start for teams like the lakers magic and boston no they wouldnt

not a cavs fan but ur just wrong. They were great all year even they were only i believe 1-5 against the cavs lakers and c's. ****** teams dont end up with the best record in the nba because of luck.

thedfactor
06-11-2009, 08:35 PM
Magic were better team. Its that simple.