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Boston Faithful
06-06-2009, 02:44 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/scott_howard-cooper/06/05/stoudemire.notes/

If the Suns are honestly going to go the entire summer without doing anything but drafting someone - they are crazy, oblivious to the fact their team has went as far as it is going to go.

They are in huge danger of losing everyone - Nash, Shaq and Amare included for NOTHING in only a year from now. If their little 'experiment' goes badly next year and they fail to get to the second round - let alone the playoffs, what is going to happen?

Nash will walk to the Knicks or another contender, Amare will be seen in a Knicks, Bulls, Heat, Wizards or another teams jersey and Shaq will relocate to another contender for his final year or two.

They'll literally be left with Richardson, Barbosa and ****.

They didn't win in 05, 06, 07, 08 and they didn't even make the playoffs in 09. They will put themselves in amazing position dealing Amare to the Bulls for picks, Deng and Tyrus Thomas or to the Heat for Beasley and another player or to the Celtics with Barbosa for Allen and Rondo. This will allow them to get great value on Nash to another team like the Knicks for David Lee and change and they can load off Shaq and save some major cash to a team like the Cavaliers. With Rondo, Allen and many young studs they will be in great position not only to be .500 this year but they would have a very bright future with Rondo/Deng&Thomas/Beasley, Lee and draft picks.

ink
06-06-2009, 02:50 AM
Here's the article:


Suns in no hurry to move Amar'e

This looks bad, the way Amar'e Stoudemire is window shopping himself around the league. In an interview with a Washington radio station, he put his chances at being a Sun in the fall at 50 percent. He told a San Antonio TV station that he may have to get sprung if Phoenix is not going to win a title soon. He spent an appearance on New York radio jumping on the chance to say he will seriously consider the Knicks and a reunion with his former coach Mike D'Antoni upon becoming a free agent next summer.

On the bright side, Stoudemire's vision is just fine after Feb. 20 surgery to repair the detached retina that prematurely ended his season. He's able to make goo-goo eyes at everyone.

In an actual positive sign for the Suns, though, Stoudemire prefers to remain in Phoenix, has not asked for a trade and, in fact, would love to talk about an extension during a very uncertain offseason for the franchise.

This is not someone trying to talk his way out of town and torching bridges as he goes, people close to the situation insist, just as this is not the February trade deadline anymore with Stoudemire on alert for the next new rumor. Stoudemire's flirting with half the free world appears to be more letting off steam than actual relocation desire. He's caught up in the speculation, trying to save face rather than be the guy supposedly being offered around, an incorrect premise.

Nobody is untouchable on a team going backward -- second round of the playoffs two years ago, first round last year, no round this time -- but if a big-money starter does go, chances are greater that it's Shaquille O'Neal or Jason Richardson than a 26-year-old perennial All-Star who provides the best chance to get to the future.

Of course, Stoudemire would also bring the most in return, so it's impossible to say a trade absolutely will not happen. The direction is clear, though. The Suns anticipate the biggest offseason news on the Stoudemire front being a return to the court in a couple of weeks and much of the summer being spent in Phoenix working his way back from the serious injury that will probably require him to wear eye protection the rest of his career.
"I had a great talk with him at the deadline and explained everything," general manager Steve Kerr said. "I did the same thing with Shaq. I have a very open relationship with our guys. When you start with that, there's no reason to have to apologize. Amar'e knows we want him."

The coaching change, from Terry Porter to Alvin Gentry, gives Kerr particular encouragement. If all the Suns responded to the midseason return to the autobahn life, becoming the first team since the 1990-91 Trail Blazers to score at least 140 points in three consecutive games, Stoudemire was particularly rejuvenated with 23 points and five rebounds in just 20 minutes followed the next night by 42 and 11 in 36 minutes. Then he was lost for the season. But those two outings just after the All-Star break, both against the Clippers, helped convince Kerr and owner Robert Sarver that it's worth moving forward to see how the potentially potent combo works with an entire 2009-10 together.

It's why the core may be kept together -- Stoudemire, O'Neal, Richardson, Steve Nash, free agent Grant Hill probably re-signed with a one-year deal -- to see how a training camp and full season with Gentry will spin the fortunes. Equally important, it's why if a big name is traded, Stoudemire isn't close to the obvious departure he seemed to be around the trade deadline.


SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/scott_howard-cooper/06/05/stoudemire.notes/)

JPHX
06-06-2009, 04:38 AM
it would make more sense for the suns to move shaq and j-rich for guys that actually fit the system.

JordansBulls
06-06-2009, 07:41 AM
If Amare doesn't want to be there then the Suns should trade him while his value is high.

Draco
06-06-2009, 08:42 AM
I hope Bosh's situation comes to a head before Amare's...

NYMetros
06-06-2009, 09:53 AM
It makes zero sense for the Suns to just hang onto Amare when their team will not win a title.
They should just cut their losses and deal him away to try and get younger.
Shaq is old, Nash is old... they really need a youth movement.
They should just blow up the whole team, honestly.

BRE4L
06-06-2009, 10:20 AM
If i had to trade him it would be to toronto for Bosh. Hes younger better rebonder and plays D. I would get rid of shaq for chandler or even to Utah for AK and some. Keep nash to run the show. I dont think nash is done quite yet. Richardson could be deadly in a run and gun game. Maybe pick up a solid draft pick and a free agent.


Nash/Dragnic
Richardson/Barbosa
Hill/Dudley
Bosh/Lou
Chandler/Lopez

Team gets better defensively while getting better offensively.

ink
06-06-2009, 10:22 AM
it would make more sense for the suns to move shaq and j-rich for guys that actually fit the system.

It's funny how fans from PHX realize that the Suns should do what's best for the Suns. Other fans -- from the Knicks, Bulls, Celtics or whoever else wants to pick the carcass for talent -- want to take the best from the Suns to improve their own teams. Obviously the Suns are going to do what's in their best interest no matter what other teams or their fan bases dream of ...

IndyRealist
06-06-2009, 10:30 AM
Here's the article:



SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/scott_howard-cooper/06/05/stoudemire.notes/)

Good to know that it wasn't an SI writer with all those writing errors....I was beginning to doubt their journalistic credentials. I could care less if a PSD poster doesn't know how to write :smoking:

On his comments though, if they let Amare walk, if they let Nash walk, they do get something in return. Cap space. Nash, Stoudamire, and O'Neal account for $40 million in salary, over half of their payroll. They only have $23.5 million commited to 2010, allowing them around $30 million to sign free agents ($36 million would be two max-contract players). They might not land Lebron or Wade or Bosh, but Joe Johnson, Rajon Rondo, Tyrus Thomas, Dirk Nowtizki, Kenyon Martin, Luis Scola, Rudy Gay, Richard Jefferson, Michael Redd, Tyson Chandler, LaMarcus Aldridge, Braondon Roy, and/or Andrea Bargnani might end up in Phoenix.

Given the flood of talent in 2010 and the lack of quality at most destinations, Phoenix would look pretty attractive to free agents. They will still have Jason Richardson (who will be a pretty attractive expiring contract in 2011), Leandro Barbosa, Goran Dragic, Robin Lopez, Jared Dudley, and Alando Tucker, plus their 2009 pick at #14, and their 2010 pick which will probably be in the lottery. Depending on who they're targeting in 2010, if they pick well in the drafts they'll have a very attractive team for young free agents to come to.

PG - Rajon Rondo
SG - Joe Johnson
SF - Jason Richardson
PF - James Johnson (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/James-Johnson-5053/)
C - Cole Aldrich (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Cole-Aldrich-1250/)
Bench - Goran Dragic, Robin Lopez, Jared Dudley, Alando Tucker, plus a mid level exception player and a bi-annual exception player.

Draco
06-06-2009, 10:32 AM
Few people think the Suns or Raptors are going to convince Amare or Bosh to re-sign by making improvements to their team. Few people should be surprised if the Suns or Raptors don't try to improve their teams but their deadline is still 2010. I'm more than happy to wait until they become unrestricted FA's if it came down to it and I wouldn't be surprised if it did. Actually, I only want Bosh. Amare, not so much. I'll patiently wait for events to unfold and watch D Rose grow as a player in the meantime. :D

ink
06-06-2009, 10:35 AM
Few people think the Suns or Raptors are going to convince Amare or Bosh to re-sign by making improvements to their team. Few people should be surprised if the Suns or Raptors don't try to improve their teams but their deadline is still 2010. I'm more than happy to wait until they become unrestricted FA's if it came down to it and I wouldn't be surprised if it did. Actually, I only want Bosh. Amare, not so much. I'll patiently wait for events to unfold and watch D Rose grow as a player in the meantime. :D

The thread IS about Amare, but to go off topic to respond to your comment ... the problem is that outside of Rose, the Bulls don't have much that other teams really want. I know I'd be severely disappointed if I was a Raptors or Suns fan looking at a trade with Chicago. Anyway, back to the thread topic ... Amar'e.

ink
06-06-2009, 10:45 AM
On his comments though, if they let Amare walk, if they let Nash walk, they do get something in return. Cap space. Nash, Stoudamire, and O'Neal account for $40 million in salary, over half of their payroll. They only have $23.5 million commited to 2010, allowing them around $30 million to sign free agents ($36 million would be two max-contract players). They might not land Lebron or Wade or Bosh, but Joe Johnson, Rajon Rondo, Tyrus Thomas, Dirk Nowtizki, Kenyon Martin, Luis Scola, Rudy Gay, Richard Jefferson, Michael Redd, Tyson Chandler, LaMarcus Aldridge, Braondon Roy, and/or Andrea Bargnani might end up in Phoenix.

Exactly. They have options beyond trading away arguably their best asset to other teams who are just interested in a predatory move.

Draco
06-06-2009, 10:46 AM
The thread IS about Amare, but to go off topic to respond to your comment ... the problem is that outside of Rose, the Bulls don't have much that other teams really want. I know I'd be severely disappointed if I was a Raptors or Suns fan looking at a trade with Chicago. Anyway, back to the thread topic ... Amar'e.

That's subjective and probably far from the truth as GMs see it. My own take on the Bulls talent is they have plenty of solid role players but no stars that would be on the trade table. Where role players are concenred the Bull's have the deepest and one of the most talented teams. Unless you're expecting to get a star in return for Bosh the Bulls should be able to make a competitive offer. Which stars could TO expect to get in return for Bosh?

As far as Amare goes.. good luck to whichever team ultimately gets him. Hopefully not the Bulls

ink
06-06-2009, 10:52 AM
That's subjective and probably far from the truth as GMs see it. My own take on the Bulls talent is they have plenty of solid role players but no stars that would be on the trade table. Where role players are concenred the Bull's have the deepest and one of the most talented teams. Unless you're expecting to get a star in return for Bosh the Bulls should be able to make a competitive offer. Which stars could TO expect to get in return for Bosh?

Role players or weak starters? Noah would be a great player off the bench for a championship team. Others like Deng, Gordon and Salmons are much more difficult. They're not bench players but neither are they really great starters. Really problematic players.


As far as Amare goes.. good luck to whichever team ultimately gets him. Hopefully not the Bulls

I agree. Though I cheer for the Suns, I have always found Amare to be a frustrating player. The fact that he's shooting his mouth off now only re-enforces the impression that he's not too bright. What he and the fans that keep pitching a trade for Amar'e all the time are forgetting is that at least for now he's PHX's asset to deal with as they choose. indyrealist made it clear that the Suns have options other than to fulfill the wishes of fans that covet Stoudemire.

Draco
06-06-2009, 11:05 AM
Role players or weak starters? Noah would be a great player off the bench for a championship team. Others like Deng, Gordon and Salmons are much more difficult. They're not bench players but neither are they really great starters. Really problematic players.

Problematic for the Celtics who were taken to 7 games and while the Bulls were in the playoffs teams like Memphis, NY and GS (other potential trade partners) were sitting at home watching the festivities. The only teams I can think of that could potentially offer a better package is Portland and Miami. Portland probably won't mess with their chemistry to the extent needed to get Bosh. I think Beasley is kind of a knucklehead so I'm hoping the professionalism of the players you mentioned might appeal to BC more than Beasley's immaturity. But who really knows.



I agree. Though I cheer for the Suns, I have always found Amare to be a frustrating player. The fact that he's shooting his mouth off now only re-enforces the impression that he's not too bright. What he and the fans that keep pitching a trade for Amar'e all the time are forgetting is that at least for now he's PHX's asset to deal with as they choose. indyrealist made it clear that the Suns have options other than to fulfill the wishes of fans that covet Stoudemire.

I don't know if anyone disputed that the Suns have options but the player also has to want to put his signature on an extension or new contract.

ink
06-06-2009, 11:14 AM
I don't know if anyone disputed that the Suns have options but the player also has to want to put his signature on an extension or new contract.

No doubt.

STAT1
06-06-2009, 11:28 AM
no one realizes that the article said amare and barbosa for allen and rondo? The celtics are thicke in the post and they like defense. amare has none of that.

IndyRealist
06-06-2009, 03:48 PM
I don't know if anyone disputed that the Suns have options but the player also has to want to put his signature on an extension or new contract.


Since you're quoting a response to my post, I'd like to say that it didn't have anything to do with an extension or a new contract. The point I was making is that the Suns don't have to do anything at all. If they let Nash, Shaq, and Amare expire, they get $30 million in cap space. If you include their lottery pick this year, their likely lottery pick next year, plus Leandro Barbosa, Jason Richardson, etc. they'll have a very attractive team for young free agents come 2010. Phoenix is an ideal basketball destination, even if it's not LA or New York.

ink
06-06-2009, 03:59 PM
Since you're quoting a response to my post, I'd like to say that it didn't have anything to do with an extension or a new contract. The point I was making is that the Suns don't have to do anything at all. If they let Nash, Shaq, and Amare expire, they get $30 million in cap space. If you include their lottery pick this year, their likely lottery pick next year, plus Leandro Barbosa, Jason Richardson, etc. they'll have a very attractive team for young free agents come 2010. Phoenix is an ideal basketball destination, even if it's not LA or New York.

I realize that your post had nothing to do with contracts or extensions. Unfortunately that's the only way some fans conceive of the situation with players like Amar'e and Bosh. So regardless of what you say, the rebuttal will always be that they need to sign a contract. Well, any player needs to sign a contract eventually.

I think the Suns' future is a lot brighter than most people think. Kerr inherited a team that had already passed its peak. He and the Suns needed to move on. The window was already closing when Colangelo left, and it was almost closed when the Suns lost to the Spurs in the playoffs a few seasons ago.

But they do have options open to them now and people forget that. He's not going to trade Amar'e just to satisfy Celtics or Bulls fans.

Draco
06-06-2009, 04:07 PM
He's not going to trade Amar'e just to satisfy Celtics or Bulls fans.

Or maybe fans think the Suns might trade Amare sooner or later because he's already been on the block once before. Apparently the Suns changed their mind and want to have another go at it.. more power to them. Again, I don't see anyone suggesting that the Suns shouldn't try to rebuild around Amare.

Draco
06-06-2009, 04:09 PM
Since you're quoting a response to my post, I'd like to say that it didn't have anything to do with an extension or a new contract. The point I was making is that the Suns don't have to do anything at all. If they let Nash, Shaq, and Amare expire, they get $30 million in cap space. If you include their lottery pick this year, their likely lottery pick next year, plus Leandro Barbosa, Jason Richardson, etc. they'll have a very attractive team for young free agents come 2010. Phoenix is an ideal basketball destination, even if it's not LA or New York.

My post didn't really have anything to do with yours even though Ink mentioned your name... but to address your point. If you think Richardson, Barbose and draft picks are going to attract FAs.. more power to you. Knicks fans think Gallo, Chandler and draft picks will do the same for them. It's nice to have a dream.

ink
06-06-2009, 04:26 PM
Or maybe fans think the Suns might trade Amare sooner or later because he's already been on the block once before.

All speculation and hypotheticals. More like wishful thinking really. And it's more than obvious that the hopeful fans are the ones posting the most about the rumours they feel will deliver them the player they covet the most.

Kabowdos
06-06-2009, 04:29 PM
it would make more sense for the suns to move shaq and j-rich for guys that actually fit the system.

I don't know why the Suns would even consider moving Amare.

The Suns should get rid of Shaq, Steve Nash, and other older guys on that team. Suns should rebuild with Barbosa and Amare and get some talent around them. A new coach may help as well.

Draco
06-06-2009, 04:32 PM
All speculation and hypotheticals. More like wishful thinking really. And it's more than obvious that the hopeful fans are the ones posting the most about the rumours they feel will deliver them the player they covet the most.

Sure.. it's no different than the speculation and hypotheticals revolving around the draft.

Rockets Fanatic
06-06-2009, 04:33 PM
Amare and Barbosa for Rondo and Allen
Nash, Dudley, 15th for David Lee, Chandler and 8th Pick
Shaq for Ben Wallace and Delonte West

PG: Rajon Rondo
SG: Ray Allen
SF: Jason Richardson
PF: Jordan Hill (8th Pick)
C: David Lee

Bench:
Delonte West
Grant Hill
Wilson Chandler
Ben Wallace
Robin Lopez

Draco
06-06-2009, 04:35 PM
I don't know why the Suns would even consider moving Amare.

The Suns should get rid of Shaq, Steve Nash, and other older guys on that team. Suns should rebuild with Barbosa and Amare and get some talent around them. A new coach may help as well.

Because the Suns wanted to save money. It was widely reported before last years trade deadline. Nash is an expiring .. if saving money is the goal it doesn't make sense to move him. And that's why it was expressed that he was not for sale.

Blah Blah Blah
06-06-2009, 05:03 PM
It's funny how fans from PHX realize that the Suns should do what's best for the Suns. Other fans -- from the Knicks, Bulls, Celtics or whoever else wants to pick the carcass for talent -- want to take the best from the Suns to improve their own teams. Obviously the Suns are going to do what's in their best interest no matter what other teams or their fan bases dream of ...

The problem is that it takes two to both get a deal done and be effective in a season. The suns are in no way gonna be in championship contention for a few years. They'll prolly only go as high as 7 or 8 in the west. Consider teams like LAL, HOU, DEN, NO, POR, UTAH are all gonna be higher than the suns. Even SA, and DAL will prolly beat them out as well. Amare knows this and is gonna say the rite things but he wants to get traded to a better contending team. That's why other teams are talkin about this. Amare does not want to waste away in PHX despite what their fans think, which in fact is a lil delusional cuz all your so called "glory" days are gone and never made it into the finals. Don't think the front office does not know this. It's time to rebuild like those other teams that want him have done to be in this position.

IndyRealist
06-06-2009, 05:42 PM
Because the Suns wanted to save money. It was widely reported before last years trade deadline. Nash is an expiring .. if saving money is the goal it doesn't make sense to move him. And that's why it was expressed that he was not for sale.

The way they save the most money would be to let him expire. If they take a contract back they're on the hook for it. If they're getting an expiring back, they break even. So why trade and make an opponent better if, at best, you're going to break even?

In 2010, they can more than likely get the players they want without having to take back dead weight in the form of bad contracts. If they make trades now, they kill their chances in the free agent market. That was the point of my post.

Draco
06-06-2009, 05:54 PM
The way they save the most money would be to let him expire. If they take a contract back they're on the hook for it. If they're getting an expiring back, they break even. So why trade and make an opponent better if, at best, you're going to break even?

In 2010, they can more than likely get the players they want without having to take back dead weight in the form of bad contracts. If they make trades now, they kill their chances in the free agent market. That was the point of my post.

The Suns could get expirings, draft picks, players who are on their rookie contracts or other cheap contracts in exchange for Amare. They reportedly didn't get an offer they liked last season which is why they held on to him. Whether Amare walks or gets traded he would be going to an opponent so I'm not sure what you're getting at with that point.

IversonIsKrazy
06-06-2009, 07:34 PM
Amare: To celtics for Allen + Rondo.

Shaq: To mavs for Dampier + Terry.

Nash: To knicks for D-Lee, Jeffries + 8th pick.

Then sign Chris Wilcox for back-up PF.

PG: Rondo/Flynn
SG: Allen/Jet
SF: J-Rich/Jeffries
PF: D-Lee/Wilcox
C: Dampier/RoLo

JPHX
06-07-2009, 12:21 AM
Amare: To celtics for Allen + Rondo.

Shaq: To mavs for Dampier + Terry.

Nash: To knicks for D-Lee, Jeffries + 8th pick.

Then sign Chris Wilcox for back-up PF.

PG: Rondo/Flynn
SG: Allen/Jet
SF: J-Rich/Jeffries
PF: D-Lee/Wilcox
C: Dampier/RoLo

no. i think there much better option we have to consider before resorting to a massive overhaul. plus j-rich at the 3 and your asking for trouble.

gumpspeed
06-07-2009, 12:50 AM
I hope Bosh's situation comes to a head before Amare's...

Bosh couldn't hold Amare's jock if he had Herculeian strength. Better ask somebody. Look at Amare's body of work. I know the Rupaul of big men would have gotten CRUSHED if he played center from 19-25!!

Amare isn't going anywhere. Trade JRich, let Shaq expire. The Suns don't need any crap for him. Ben Wallace and Sasha??? Why? Keep Shaq for one more year.

gumpspeed
06-07-2009, 12:57 AM
It makes zero sense for the Suns to just hang onto Amare when their team will not win a title.
They should just cut their losses and deal him away to try and get younger.
Shaq is old, Nash is old... they really need a youth movement.
They should just blow up the whole team, honestly.

And?? JRich is 28, LB is 26, Amare is 26. Shaq and Nash expire (right on time next year) opps, the Suns will have 33 million dollars for 2010 plus they have a lottery pick this year. So tell me why we should get rid of Amare??? So someone else can get him in his prime. I don't think so. You know what's funny, we need to blow it up and we suck, but EVERY TEAM fans want someone of our players. How bout we just resign Amare an bring in a FA in 2010. That makes sense huh!?

albertc86
06-07-2009, 01:14 AM
Can someone please explain the logic in trading Amar'e? Granted, the guy is a horrible defender, but the great big men in the west are either injury prone, too young or on the decline. The guy is a beast and has played very well against Duncan in the playoffs. So how exactly would the Suns be cutting their losses? If anything, they should get rid of Nash first. He couldn't do it with Dirk and hasn't been able to do it with the Suns. The Suns would be stupid to give up Amar'e unless they were getting equal or better talent in return.