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StealingSigns
06-05-2009, 12:41 AM
http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=280911

Bargaining ploy, or is he walking?

abe_froman
06-05-2009, 12:45 AM
the on;ly thing that'll keep him is being on realistic contender,since thats hard to do within a year.yeah he's not going to sign an extension and probably walk after the seasons over(that is unless their ecf team or better next year)

jdillion
06-05-2009, 01:48 AM
good now he can come sign with the knicks in 2010 and play with Lebron

Duncan = Donkey
06-05-2009, 01:50 AM
^^ in your dreams

bluesickle
06-05-2009, 05:06 AM
He's walking, which is the right move for Bosh. No offense to Toronto but he needs to play for a bigger market team.

NJrockPD
06-05-2009, 05:35 AM
Welcome to Chicago.

dos132
06-05-2009, 05:49 AM
i think he want a new team and a new teammates... and a larger salary...

Kakaroach
06-05-2009, 08:43 AM
Eh Toronto had such a down year it was ridiculous. Maybe if they get out of the first round next year this situation might change.

NYYankeesWin#27
06-05-2009, 09:09 AM
cool he or amare can join lebron in NY

Saint Brian
06-05-2009, 09:15 AM
cool he or amare can join lebron in NY

Why not just join him in Cleveland?

;)

SlaterRaps
06-05-2009, 09:24 AM
I say he walks if the raptors don't do something during the offseason. The only way he will stay with no big move in the offseason is if we have a breakout season which i don't see happening. FML

SlaterRaps
06-05-2009, 09:25 AM
Welcome to Chicago.

ahha chicago? i dont think so

todu82
06-05-2009, 09:25 AM
I'm really not surprised at this. Bosh wants to play for a team that's going to be a contender every year. With the Raptors it's disappointing season after disappointing season.

pebloemer
06-05-2009, 09:38 AM
He was also asked what the chances of resigning with the Raptor's in 2010 off-season and he stated "Good." He has consistently stated he wants to be part of the solution in Toronto. I think a lot will depend on how the team performs this year. Which to me means that nothing has changed in the situation except that Colangelo will be looking at more trade offers for fear of him not resigning.

Chance of trade this off-season? I think that depends on whether Colangelo can get Marion to return and feel comfortable with the supporting cast around Bosh.

Chance of trade before deadline? I think that depends on how the team performs for the first half of the 09/10 season.

Chance of Bosh signing elsewhere in the 2010 offseason? I think it depends on the performance of the team throughout 2010, namely whether they are able to enjoy any playoff success.

Our GM has some decisions to make.

mikantsass
06-05-2009, 09:41 AM
I think he walks... Who the hell would want to play in Canada their whole career?

MaHaRaJaH
06-05-2009, 09:43 AM
He's walking, which is the right move for Bosh. No offense to Toronto but he needs to play for a bigger market team.

Bigger Market?:eyebrow:

MaHaRaJaH
06-05-2009, 09:43 AM
I think he walks... Who the hell would want to play in Canada their whole career?

How is that relevant?

king4day
06-05-2009, 09:45 AM
He's walking, which is the right move for Bosh. No offense to Toronto but he needs to play for a bigger market team.

Why does he need to?

... I really think Toronto needs to trade him and field all possibilities. If I'm Colangelo, I'm furious at Bosh for making it public. This may hurt the trade value he has.

mikantsass
06-05-2009, 09:51 AM
How is that relevant?

If you had a choice, would you play in Toronto, Canada or Miami, Fl?

Toronto or LA?
Toronto or NY?
Toronto or ATL?
Toronto or CHI?
Toronto or PHO?
Toronto or Hou?

get my drift

Draco
06-05-2009, 09:54 AM
Bosh is good friends with my father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roomate and told him that he wants to play for Chicago.

king4day
06-05-2009, 09:55 AM
If you had a choice, would you play in Toronto, Canada or Miami, Fl?

Toronto or LA?
Toronto or NY?
Toronto or ATL?
Toronto or CHI?
Toronto or PHO?
Toronto or Hou?

get my drift

Toronto is a mega city in Canada. If it were in the US, this conversation woudn't be happening.

Be the NBA king of Canada or the NBA king of Atlanta?

MaHaRaJaH
06-05-2009, 10:08 AM
Toronto is a mega city in Canada. If it were in the US, this conversation woudn't be happening.

Be the NBA king of Canada or the NBA king of Atlanta?

He got my drift

Mile High Champ
06-05-2009, 10:10 AM
He's walking, which is the right move for Bosh. No offense to Toronto but he needs to play for a bigger market team.

I never ever understand this argument. Next to New York, Chicago and LA, Toronto is the largest market in Canada or the United States. A very stupid argument to make for why Bosh should leave.

Hellcrooner
06-05-2009, 10:33 AM
he is a texan and its very probable that Dallas and Houston will have the Cap in 2010.

Wouldnt you want to play Close to home?

and by the way im sure he isnt exactly crazy about Taxes in Canada you know?

Sly Guy
06-05-2009, 10:48 AM
I never ever understand this argument. Next to New York, Chicago and LA, Toronto is the largest market in Canada or the United States. A very stupid argument to make for why Bosh should leave.

the reason isn't the size of the metropolis, it's the size of the national market. Canadian teams don't get the exposure to the US market the way US teams do. Differences in broadcasting laws mean they've always gotta make the 'exception' for Canadians, and Canadian TV. There's less interest in the US for Canadian teams. Even when the Raps were arguably the most entertaining team to watch with Carter, T-Mac, Christie, A-Wil, Davis, Curry, and Dee Brown, we still only had maybe 2-3 nationally televised games. It's not the fact the Toronto region has 7+ million people, it's the fact our country only has a population slightly larger than the entire state of California.

That being said, I'm still a firm believer that the Raps can get exposure in the States. If we'd managed to keep T-Mac and Carter together, we'd have had an exciting brand of winning basketball the US networks would want to carry. And yeah, it may mean we have to win more games than the average club to attract the stars of the league to come play, or stay for us, but so do a lot of 'small market teams'. Which consequently is why, a lot of people regard the Toronto market as one.

Oh, and as for the douche who asked why anyone would want to play in Canada for their entire career: Toronto's winter temperatures on average are higher than Chicago [not including wind chill as well!]. Look it up. Yeah, we're a cold climate, but not the coldest. Come to Toronto in January in your beach attire, you're more likely to get a tan than Chicago. And if you don't survive the night, then chalk it up to Darwinism, and our species is now stronger for losing such a dumb***

masalex1205
06-05-2009, 10:52 AM
I never ever understand this argument. Next to New York, Chicago and LA, Toronto is the largest market in Canada or the United States. A very stupid argument to make for why Bosh should leave.

Don't really carehow big the market is, its still in Canada which sucks

USA BABY!!

pebloemer
06-05-2009, 10:56 AM
he is a texan and its very probable that Dallas and Houston will have the Cap in 2010.

Wouldnt you want to play Close to home?

and by the way im sure he isnt exactly crazy about Taxes in Canada you know?

63. Are teams really competing on a level playing field? Since the tax rate is different in the different states and Canada, don't the teams in a more "tax friendly" state have an advantage over the other teams?
Yes they do. For example, since Florida has no state income tax, an offer from Orlando will offer a higher net income than the same offer from Los Angeles. However, the league added a regulation to help neutralize the tax disadvantage of Canadian teams. All teams are permitted to offer a signing bonus of up to 20% (see question number 62). For U.S. residents in Canada, this bonus is taxed at just 15%. Using this bonus, Canadian teams can nearly achieve tax neutrality.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

Considering we can also offer him millions more money in salary, I see that point as mute. The decision is not about money if he makes it. I really don't think it is about a distaste towards Toronto either, which people seem to be stating. It is about direction of a franchise and opportunity to win a championship. Anyone who thinks anything else is being ignorant over the evidence and the facts.



Don't really carehow big the market is, its still in Canada which sucks

USA BABY!!


I think he walks... Who the hell would want to play in Canada their whole career?

You guys just want to bait Canadian fans, or actually have a discussion about it? If you actually want to have a discussion about it, I'm all yours but do yourself a favour and do your homework.

Lo Porto
06-05-2009, 11:05 AM
Bosh is playing in Miami or NY in 2010. He's playing the company guy role right now saying he'd stay with the right roster, but he's not staying. He could be a bigger household name and winning so much more in Miami or NY. Toronto should trade him now to get something for him.

Caution1011
06-05-2009, 11:05 AM
d-wade with bosh sounds very nice

cmacmath
06-05-2009, 11:16 AM
I definately think if Bosh makes it through next season in Toronto then he would sign elsewhere (Knicks for example) so I think Colangelo is going to trade him before the draft or certainly before the all-star break next season so what i find MORE interesting is...

will he resign with the team that trades for him or just use them for 6 months to a year

and would you trade for him if you knew you might just be renting him for a couple of months??

Teams likely to trade for him:

Detroit
Chicago
Phoenix

masalex1205
06-05-2009, 11:24 AM
I agree that Colangelo is going to have to trade Bosh if the Raptors play like they did last season.

BUT everyone forgets how high expectations were this season they just couldn't put it together, maybe it was a fluke year and they'll turn it around. Toronto usually drafts pretty well (Exception: A. Barg.) Maybe they'll get someone like Tyreke Evans who turns out to be a stud.

Regardless Im not as convinced that Bosh is def. gone but I'll admit it's looking that way.

Sly Guy
06-05-2009, 11:35 AM
I agree that Colangelo is going to have to trade Bosh if the Raptors play like they did last season.

BUT everyone forgets how high expectations were this season they just couldn't put it together, maybe it was a fluke year and they'll turn it around. Toronto usually drafts pretty well (Exception: A. Barg.) Maybe they'll get someone like Tyreke Evans who turns out to be a stud.

Regardless Im not as convinced that Bosh is def. gone but I'll admit it's looking that way.

Here's the thing about last season. Our starting PG was out for a huge stretch of the season, and early when he wasn't, he clearly wasn't healthy. Couple that with trading our other PG for O'Neal, and we were left with a gaping hole barely resembling a back court. Add that to the fact we couldn't find a rotation for out front court with Bargs, Bosh and O'Neal.

When the Jo experiment didn't work, the O'Neal-Marion trade was delayed due to injuries.

How many games you figure those problems cost us?

dtmagnet
06-05-2009, 11:36 AM
If you take the post all-star break Raptors after Marion gelled with the team and Jose Calderon became healthy as a sample size, then I would say the Raptors have the potential to shock a lot of people next year. As for Bosh leaving, at the very least I think there would be teams lining up to sign him so if he made up his mind to leave Toronto they could find a sign+trade partner.

masalex1205
06-05-2009, 11:37 AM
Here's the thing about last season. Our starting PG was out for a huge stretch of the season, and early when he wasn't, he clearly wasn't healthy. Couple that with trading our other PG for O'Neal, and we were left with a gaping hole barely resembling a back court. Add that to the fact we couldn't find a rotation for out front court with Bargs, Bosh and O'Neal.

When the Jo experiment didn't work, the O'Neal-Marion trade was delayed due to injuries.

How many games you figure those problems cost us?


Yeah, injuries killed yall. I could def. seeing the raps being the "suprise" team in the East next year.

Draco
06-05-2009, 11:45 AM
Oh, and as for the douche who asked why anyone would want to play in Canada for their entire career: Toronto's winter temperatures on average are higher than Chicago [not including wind chill as well!]. Look it up. Yeah, we're a cold climate, but not the coldest. Come to Toronto in January in your beach attire, you're more likely to get a tan than Chicago. And if you don't survive the night, then chalk it up to Darwinism, and our species is now stronger for losing such a dumb***

I doubt that.

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USIL0225?from=weekend_bottomnav_undeclared

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/CAXX0504?from=36hr_bottomnav_business

Sly Guy
06-05-2009, 11:49 AM
I doubt that.

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USIL0225?from=weekend_bottomnav_undeclared

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/CAXX0504?from=36hr_bottomnav_business

Actually I used these as references for my argument:
Toronto:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/city_guides/results.shtml?tt=TT000900
Chicago:
http://www.hichicago.org/discover_temperatures.shtml

Sorry, I compare in Celsius, we in Canada, like the majority of the rest of the world, have abandoned the imperial system.

Draco
06-05-2009, 11:51 AM
Actually I used these as references for my argument:
Toronto:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/city_guides/results.shtml?tt=TT000900
Chicago:
http://www.hichicago.org/discover_temperatures.shtml

Sorry, I compare in Celsius, we in Canada, like the majority of the rest of the world, have abandoned the imperial system.

The temperatures are in Celcius.

Sly Guy
06-05-2009, 11:54 AM
The temperatures are in Celcius.

I know, but yours aren't.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. The numbers in both cases are so close it's debatable at best. Chicago experiences higher wind velocities due to it's position on the lake and the relatively flat midwest plains, meaning it'll experience greater windchills anyway.

Draco
06-05-2009, 11:56 AM
I know, but yours aren't.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. The numbers in both cases are so close it's debatable at best. Chicago experiences higher wind velocities due to it's position on the lake and the relatively flat midwest plains, meaning it'll experience greater windchills anyway.

It matters insomuch as you brought up the point. And yes, the links I provided show temperatures that are in Celcius. That website allows you to convert between C and F and I took the extra step to do that.

Sly Guy
06-05-2009, 11:58 AM
It matters insomuch as you brought up the point. And yes, the links I provided show temperatures that are in Celcius. That website allows you to convert between C and F and I took the extra step to do that.

yeah well I glanced at the temperatures anyway, and in your links they default back to F.

colinskik
06-05-2009, 11:58 AM
Alright, take this argument to the Weather Channel forum.

Lo Porto
06-05-2009, 12:06 PM
Toronto should ahead and trade Bosh to get something for him. As much as injuries and chemistry were off last year, Toronto is still not a top 4 team in the East with everything going right. Considering the fame and endorsements he can get in Miami or NY plus the fact that no elite free agent will ever choose to go to Toronto, go ahead and make a trade Colangelo. Trade Bosh to Chicago (get Deng and Tyrus?), Miami (Beasley, Blount and a future 1st?) or NY (David Lee and Nate Robinson?)

pebloemer
06-05-2009, 12:20 PM
These who's country is better arguments are absolutely ridiculous at this point. In a forum populated by mainly Canadian's and American's, obviously it is just people being defensive about their country. it is possible to have legitimate discussions about it, and I would be more than happy to have those discussions, but at the moment, what is being talked about is Chris Bosh and basketball. The only way Canada could be relevant is if Bosh has raised concerns about playing here.

If Bosh had a problem playing in Canada, why would he sign a three year extension when his rookie contract was up?

The fact of the matter is, Bosh has consistently stated he enjoys playing in Toronto, he enjoys the fans, the city and the organization. He recently made a big deal with Warner Music Canada which allows him to be the first professional athlete engaging in an activity of this kind.

http://www.chris-bosh.com/

The relevant factors that actual may matter are such:

The Raptors have had two season in a row, where expectations were not met by the team.
Last year was a terrible season for the team that has left the current direction obscure.
Bosh wants to gives himself a good chance at winning a championship and with the uncertainty around the franchise, hw does not know if Toronto will be a place reasonable to do so.

Can I blame him for not wanting to sign an extension a year before his contract ends? Can anyone? Is this even news?

The question that comes from this is "what should the Raptor's do? Should they fully commit to this year in the hopes that it turns around? Should they wait for the deadline and assess the teams progress then? Should they trade him this off-season and start the season with a fresh roster and a clear direction forward? What are the possibilities of Bosh being willing to work with Colangelo in 2010 to create a sign-and-trade opportunity to a place where Bosh wants to play?

pebloemer
06-05-2009, 12:26 PM
I agree that Colangelo is going to have to trade Bosh if the Raptors play like they did last season.

BUT everyone forgets how high expectations were this season they just couldn't put it together, maybe it was a fluke year and they'll turn it around. Toronto usually drafts pretty well (Exception: A. Barg.) Maybe they'll get someone like Tyreke Evans who turns out to be a stud.

Regardless Im not as convinced that Bosh is def. gone but I'll admit it's looking that way.

That is your example for Toronto not drafting well?

In the 2006 draft, I would argue that the only team in the lottery that drafted better than Toronto was Portland (Aldridge, Roy). Argument could be made for Memphis with Gay, but I believe thatis debatable.

1. Bargnani
2. Aldridge
3. T. Thomas
4. A. Morrison
5. S. Williams
6. B. Roy
7. R Foye
8. R. Gay
9. P. O'Bryant
10. Sene
11. Redick
12. Armstrong
13. Sefolosha
14. Brewer

Bargnani is unbelievably talented and showing very promising progress. Many people still believe he will be the better player than Bosh.

If you want an example of poor draft history, check 2004 or 2005 :)

Big Game Son
06-05-2009, 12:36 PM
He wants a better roster. Plain and simple and Colangelo needs to ante-up and give it to him. The guy won a gold medal and had brought us some success. However Anthony Parker sucks and Bargnani wasnt great up till half way last season and we had flippin Jamario Moon there too (ugliest starter ever). <- Starting line-up failures (except for Bargs now he is outstanding and I love it!!! We have playoff potential, but honestly the NBA is about championships. It takes some luck, but this roster has absolutely no shot at it. We need to make some moves because currently Chris Bosh is making the most sense out of anybody in this scenario.

Duhman30
06-05-2009, 01:26 PM
I hope the Pistons grab him up if he walks.

masalex1205
06-05-2009, 02:19 PM
That is your example for Toronto not drafting well?

In the 2006 draft, I would argue that the only team in the lottery that drafted better than Toronto was Portland (Aldridge, Roy). Argument could be made for Memphis with Gay, but I believe thatis debatable.

1. Bargnani
2. Aldridge
3. T. Thomas
4. A. Morrison
5. S. Williams
6. B. Roy
7. R Foye
8. R. Gay
9. P. O'Bryant
10. Sene
11. Redick
12. Armstrong
13. Sefolosha
14. Brewer

Bargnani is unbelievably talented and showing very promising progress. Many people still believe he will be the better player than Bosh.

If you want an example of poor draft history, check 2004 or 2005 :)

Def. not trying to take anything away from Bargnani, he is talented and coming into his own. Simply saying that the number 1 pick hopefully should give a team a franchise player. Roy and Gay really slipped down the draft board as many people had them going a lot earlier. Also I believe Morrison went 3rd in that draft.

JOSKOMANG4
06-05-2009, 03:02 PM
1. Wizards and raptors

- wizards acquire pf chris bosh and pg marcus banks in exchange for c- brendan haywood, pf- a. Jamison, sg- d stevenson, and 2009 2nd rd pick.

Wizard lineup: (c) mcgee, (pf) bosh, (sf) butler, (sg) n. Young, (pg) arenas

raptors: (c) haywood, (pf) jamison, (sf) j. Kapono, (sg) douby/stevenson (pg) calderon

2. Heat and raptors

- heat acquire pf chris bosh and 2009 2nd rd pick from raptors in exchange for pf michael beasley, pf u haslim, sf james jones, and 2009 1st rd pick.

Heat: (c) j. Anthony, (pf) bosh, (sf) a. Wright, (sg) wade, (pg) chalmers

raptors: (c) p o bryant, (pf) haslem, (sf) beasley, (sg) kapono, (pg) calderon

3. Bulls and raptors

- bulls acquire pf chris bosh and 2009 2nd rd pick from raptors in exchange for sf luol deng, pf linton johnson, c/pf tim thomas, and 2009 1st rd pick.

Bulls lineup: (c) miller, (pf) bosh, (sf) tyrus thomas, (sg) b. Gordon(resigned), and (pg) d. Rose

raptors lineup: (c) tim thomas, (pf) bargnani, (sf) deng, (sg) kapono, (pg) calderon

JOSKOMANG4
06-05-2009, 03:04 PM
Def. not trying to take anything away from Bargnani, he is talented and coming into his own. Simply saying that the number 1 pick hopefully should give a team a franchise player. Roy and Gay really slipped down the draft board as many people had them going a lot earlier. Also I believe Morrison went 3rd in that draft.

If i'm not mistaken..

Thomas went 2nd, Morrison 3rd, and Alridge 4th.

abe_froman
06-05-2009, 03:08 PM
I never ever understand this argument. Next to New York, Chicago and LA, Toronto is the largest market in Canada or the United States. A very stupid argument to make for why Bosh should leave.

money doesnt count the same,that why tor isnt considered a large market

Ray_R
06-05-2009, 03:19 PM
Not trying to rain on the Knicks parade but for those who say that Bosh would pick NY i highly doubt it. I think his best choices are Chicago and Miami. Miami has D Wade no intro neede and Chicago has A promising PG in D Rose. I honestly dont see what NY has but a mess.

abe_froman
06-05-2009, 03:21 PM
Not trying to rain on the Knicks parade but for those who say that Bosh would pick NY i highly doubt it. I think his best choices are Chicago and Miami. Miami has D Wade no intro neede and Chicago has A promising PG in D Rose. I honestly dont see what NY has but a mess.

money and biggest market(able to get more publicity) than anywhere.thats what they're banking on

Lo Porto
06-05-2009, 03:33 PM
Not trying to rain on the Knicks parade but for those who say that Bosh would pick NY i highly doubt it. I think his best choices are Chicago and Miami. Miami has D Wade no intro neede and Chicago has A promising PG in D Rose. I honestly dont see what NY has but a mess.

NY is going to be more attractive than most teams in 2010. They'll have David Lee, Gallinari, this year's #8, Chandler and probably Curry or Jeffries ( who expire in 2011 so the Knicks can add more players in 2011). There is a very good chance that Nash rejoins D'Antoni in 2010 and takes a huge paycut so NY can make a run at the title. If NY deals Jeffries or Curry prior to 2010, they could add Bosh AND another top free agent such as LeBron, Joe Johnson, Manu, etc. In 2010, NY could have the following lineup:

PG Nash ($6 full MLE), Curry ($2.5)
SG Joe Johnson or Manu ($14)
SF LeBron ($14), Chandler ($2), Gallinari ($3)
PF Bosh ($14)
C David Lee ($10), Curry ($11)

Only one of Manu, Joe or LeBron would be there so it would be less than $65 for this roster not counting roster fillers. The only ebb and flow would depend on the first year salary of a max contract for Bosh and the other elite addition.

Mile High Champ
06-05-2009, 03:40 PM
money doesnt count the same,that why tor isnt considered a large market

do your homework. The salaries are the same in Canada as they are in the states and taxes are a non issue, it has been discussed already..

Mile High Champ
06-05-2009, 03:41 PM
1. Wizards and raptors

- wizards acquire pf chris bosh and pg marcus banks in exchange for c- brendan haywood, pf- a. Jamison, sg- d stevenson, and 2009 2nd rd pick.

Wizard lineup: (c) mcgee, (pf) bosh, (sf) butler, (sg) n. Young, (pg) arenas

raptors: (c) haywood, (pf) jamison, (sf) j. Kapono, (sg) douby/stevenson (pg) calderon

2. Heat and raptors

- heat acquire pf chris bosh and 2009 2nd rd pick from raptors in exchange for pf michael beasley, pf u haslim, sf james jones, and 2009 1st rd pick.

Heat: (c) j. Anthony, (pf) bosh, (sf) a. Wright, (sg) wade, (pg) chalmers

raptors: (c) p o bryant, (pf) haslem, (sf) beasley, (sg) kapono, (pg) calderon

3. Bulls and raptors

- bulls acquire pf chris bosh and 2009 2nd rd pick from raptors in exchange for sf luol deng, pf linton johnson, c/pf tim thomas, and 2009 1st rd pick.

Bulls lineup: (c) miller, (pf) bosh, (sf) tyrus thomas, (sg) b. Gordon(resigned), and (pg) d. Rose

raptors lineup: (c) tim thomas, (pf) bargnani, (sf) deng, (sg) kapono, (pg) calderon


Those trades are all brutal...

dtmagnet
06-05-2009, 03:43 PM
1. Wizards and raptors

- wizards acquire pf chris bosh and pg marcus banks in exchange for c- brendan haywood, pf- a. Jamison, sg- d stevenson, and 2009 2nd rd pick.

Wizard lineup: (c) mcgee, (pf) bosh, (sf) butler, (sg) n. Young, (pg) arenas

raptors: (c) haywood, (pf) jamison, (sf) j. Kapono, (sg) douby/stevenson (pg) calderon

2. Heat and raptors

- heat acquire pf chris bosh and 2009 2nd rd pick from raptors in exchange for pf michael beasley, pf u haslim, sf james jones, and 2009 1st rd pick.

Heat: (c) j. Anthony, (pf) bosh, (sf) a. Wright, (sg) wade, (pg) chalmers

raptors: (c) p o bryant, (pf) haslem, (sf) beasley, (sg) kapono, (pg) calderon

3. Bulls and raptors

- bulls acquire pf chris bosh and 2009 2nd rd pick from raptors in exchange for sf luol deng, pf linton johnson, c/pf tim thomas, and 2009 1st rd pick.

Bulls lineup: (c) miller, (pf) bosh, (sf) tyrus thomas, (sg) b. Gordon(resigned), and (pg) d. Rose

raptors lineup: (c) tim thomas, (pf) bargnani, (sf) deng, (sg) kapono, (pg) calderon

I don't think you know enough about the Raptors roster or their needs to be making trade ideas for them, as demonstrated by these horrible trade suggestions.

abe_froman
06-05-2009, 03:44 PM
do your homework. The salaries are the same in Canada as they are in the states and taxes are a non issue, it has been discussed already..

not salary,but market...things the league makes money off of(jersey sales,ect.).its part of having leagues that cross boarders,there is no one standard monetary unit so that 1 can dollar is equal to 1 us dollar.but its why mlb and nba doesnt consider you a large market even though you have a large population.

i know its not what you want to hear(its a blow to your nationalistic pride),but thats just the way it is,and why your not considered large market..sorry

Draco
06-05-2009, 03:45 PM
NY is going to be more attractive than most teams in 2010. They'll have David Lee, Gallinari, this year's #8, Chandler and probably Curry or Jeffries ( who expire in 2011 so the Knicks can add more players in 2011). There is a very good chance that Nash rejoins D'Antoni in 2010 and takes a huge paycut so NY can make a run at the title. If NY deals Jeffries or Curry prior to 2010, they could add Bosh AND another top free agent such as LeBron, Joe Johnson, Manu, etc. In 2010, NY could have the following lineup:

PG Nash ($6 full MLE), Curry ($2.5)
SG Joe Johnson or Manu ($14)
SF LeBron ($14), Chandler ($2), Gallinari ($3)
PF Bosh ($14)
C David Lee ($10), Curry ($11)

Only one of Manu, Joe or LeBron would be there so it would be less than $65 for this roster not counting roster fillers. The only ebb and flow would depend on the first year salary of a max contract for Bosh and the other elite addition.

It's hard to believe you came to that conclusion after listing Gallinari, the #8, Curry, Jeffries and a bunch of what if scenarios. Although Chandler is nice, a lot of teams have players with his level of talent.

Kings Faithful
06-05-2009, 03:48 PM
I don't like the fact that this came out with another year still left on his contract... It wouldn't make me happy as a Raptors fan to go through another (probably mediocre) year with our best player already deciding he is going to leave. I like my players to enjoy where they are playing, and if they don't they can at least fake it.

pebloemer
06-05-2009, 03:52 PM
I don't like the fact that this came out with another year still left on his contract... It wouldn't make me happy as a Raptors fan to go through another (probably mediocre) year with our best player already deciding he is going to leave. I like my players to enjoy where they are playing, and if they don't they can at least fake it.

He has not stated he is going to leave though. He stated he is not signing an extension this summer. Bosh has not shown that he is not enjoying where he is playing. LeBron probably won't sign and extension with Cleveland this summer either, it does not mean he has made his mind up to leave.

Draco
06-05-2009, 03:59 PM
do your homework. The salaries are the same in Canada as they are in the states and taxes are a non issue, it has been discussed already..

It hasn't been adequately discussed in this thread for me to believe taxes are a non issue.

pebloemer
06-05-2009, 04:00 PM
Def. not trying to take anything away from Bargnani, he is talented and coming into his own. Simply saying that the number 1 pick hopefully should give a team a franchise player. Roy and Gay really slipped down the draft board as many people had them going a lot earlier. Also I believe Morrison went 3rd in that draft.

Probably just copied it wrong - was in a rush. My point was simply that most teams in the draft chose worse than Toronto. Roy was not rumoured to be the best player out of the draft, he was simply most NBA ready, and there were no Blake Griffin's, Kevin Durant's, LeBron James, Derrick Rose's available. I would have loved to get #1 overall the year before or the year following, but it was a weaker draft year if I remember right. The lottery itself was a bit of a bust.

Your original point that the Raptor's draft decent except for Bargnani, I would say he is the one bright draft spot for us the past few years (Hoffa at 8? isn't even in the league anymore, Joey G. had us miss out on Granger, Villanueva was not the greatest either). I was surprised you used bargs as an example is all. Although it is probably more accurate to look at Brian Colangelo's record in the draft (Marion, Amare, Bargnani), since he makes the decisions this year.

Lo Porto
06-05-2009, 04:03 PM
It's hard to believe you came to that conclusion after listing Gallinari, the #8, Curry, Jeffries and a bunch of what if scenarios. Although Chandler is nice, a lot of teams have players with his level of talent.

Tons of players want to play for D'Antoni. They love his style. Players will also want to be part of the rebuilding of the Knicks. Playing in MSG and being a Knick will be something again. Gallinari, Chandler, Lee, and probably Stephen Curry will be a decent crew to start with. If you add two elite players to that mix, you've got a better team than what Cleveland currently has. Jeffries and Eddy Curry are terrible, but Jeffries will probably be gone before 2010 via trade. Curry will be there, but his huge contract will come off in 2011 when NY could add even more talent to the roster via free agents or trades.

New York will be back and will be one of the most popular free agent locations.

StealingSigns
06-06-2009, 04:47 AM
Toronto has some cap room this FA season.

I think Bosh is posturing.

Mile High Champ
06-06-2009, 08:08 AM
not salary,but market...things the league makes money off of(jersey sales,ect.).its part of having leagues that cross boarders,there is no one standard monetary unit so that 1 can dollar is equal to 1 us dollar.but its why mlb and nba doesnt consider you a large market even though you have a large population.

i know its not what you want to hear(its a blow to your nationalistic pride),but thats just the way it is,and why your not considered large market..sorry

I gotta disagree with you. The raps are a large market team and are amongst the teams with the highest revenue, current value and also a top five team in operating income. All these points would suggest that you are the one that is more than wrong in this case. Where does it say that the NBA does not consider us a largest market team??? No where.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/32/nba08_NBA-Team-Valuations_Rank.html

fishfan79
06-06-2009, 10:52 AM
bosh + wade = best 1-2 punch in basketball for miami?

jrodmesche
06-06-2009, 11:14 AM
come play with wade in miami that would be a pleasure to watch

ink
06-06-2009, 11:20 AM
Toronto has some cap room this FA season.

I think Bosh is posturing.

I don't. I think he's being pretty straight with people. He said that he has to improve and the team has to improve. He also said that when he signed his previous contract he wanted to set himself up to see where he and team were at in 2010. If he leaves, he leaves. If he gets traded, fine. I'm sure Colangelo has contingencies worked out for all situations. Since Bosh is very comfortable in Toronto, and the organization has treated him extremely well, I don't think he has nearly the incentive to leave that all the speculators think. If he DOES leave or get traded, I won't be heartbroken ... there are other players.

Draco
06-06-2009, 11:29 AM
I don't. I think he's being pretty straight with people. He said that he has to improve and the team has to improve. He also said that when he signed his previous contract he wanted to set himself up to see where he and team were at in 2010. If he leaves, he leaves. If he gets traded, fine. I'm sure Colangelo has contingencies worked out for all situations. Since Bosh is very comfortable in Toronto, and the organization has treated him extremely well, I don't think he has nearly the incentive to leave that all the speculators think. If he DOES leave or get traded, I won't be heartbroken ... there are other players.

Why not? There have been at least three people I can think of that suggested Bosh is one foot out of Toronto: Ford, SAS, and Thorp. I'd bet those aren't the only people putting it out there and where there's smoke, there's fire.

Looking at Miami as one of the best possible destinations for Bosh.. they have a warmer climate, no state income tax, they have a better roster as evidenced by their playoff births over the last 4 years, and they have a superstar in Wade.

29$JerZ
06-06-2009, 11:37 AM
Why not? There have been at least three people I can think of that suggested Bosh is one foot out of Toronto: Ford, SAS, and Thorp. I'd bet those aren't the only people putting it out there and where there's smoke, there's fire.

Looking at Miami as one of the best possible destinations for Bosh.. they have a warmer climate, no state income tax, they have a better roster as evidenced by their playoff births over the last 4 years, and they have a superstar in Wade.

But what can Miami offer outside of Wade?

Would Miami really trade Beasly already? Bosh will still test his FA value in2010 even if on Miami.

A lot of teams can be possible players for Bosh, problem is with 2010 looming next season who will give up assets for a possible 1yr rental

Draco
06-06-2009, 11:41 AM
But what can Miami offer outside of Wade?

Would Miami really trade Beasly already? Bosh will still test his FA value in2010 even if on Miami.

A lot of teams can be possible players for Bosh, problem is with 2010 looming next season who will give up assets for a possible 1yr rental

I would definately trade Beasley for Bosh. Bosh's maturity as a player is on the same path as Wade. They came into the league at the same time and will peak at around the same time.

rapswin98
06-06-2009, 11:56 AM
i think bosh is pulling kobe, and i hope it works

Chi-Town Finest
06-06-2009, 12:10 PM
i think bosh is pulling kobe, and i hope it works
Very likely as he also stated that he wants a max deal and is not willing to take less to play somewhere which he would have to do if he left seeing as how Toronto can pay him the most.

Draco
06-06-2009, 12:11 PM
Very likely as he also stated that he wants a max deal and is not willing to take less to play somewhere which he would have to do if he left seeing as how Toronto can pay him the most.

Quote/link?

Chi-Town Finest
06-06-2009, 12:23 PM
Quote/link?
Bosh wants a max contract
Chris Bosh | Raptors
Asked yesterday if he felt he was worth a max contract, Chris Bosh didn't hesitate. "Without a doubt. I really don't see any negotiation about that part."
As for taking less than a max deal to allow Bryan Colangelo to beef up the rest of the lineup, Bosh doesn't sound like a guy who would consider that.

"An old school guy told me: 'Take advantage. You can't play this game forever. Make sure you maximize your potential,' " Bosh said.

When it was put to Bosh that he was saying no to a hometown discount, Bosh laughed before replying, "In a nice way." -- Toronto Sun

Draco
06-06-2009, 12:31 PM
Bosh wants a max contract
Chris Bosh | Raptors
Asked yesterday if he felt he was worth a max contract, Chris Bosh didn't hesitate. "Without a doubt. I really don't see any negotiation about that part."
As for taking less than a max deal to allow Bryan Colangelo to beef up the rest of the lineup, Bosh doesn't sound like a guy who would consider that.

"An old school guy told me: 'Take advantage. You can't play this game forever. Make sure you maximize your potential,' " Bosh said.

When it was put to Bosh that he was saying no to a hometown discount, Bosh laughed before replying, "In a nice way." -- Toronto Sun

Bosh didn't say he wouldn't take less money to play somewhere else he appears to suggest he won't take less than a max contract to play for the Raptors.

Chi-Town Finest
06-06-2009, 12:40 PM
Bosh didn't say he wouldn't take less money to play somewhere else he appears to suggest he won't take less than a max contract to play for the Raptors.
I assume that when he says that an old school guy told him to maximize his potential and take advantage of the opportunity to do so that meant not excepting less. Also if he wont take less to bring a star in why we would he take less to go to a team to play sidekick to a star? I'm not saying it's not possible that he is just saying all the right things with the intent on leaving but I call a spade a spade.

writ42
06-06-2009, 12:48 PM
He's leaving. He wants to be on another team that is going to actually win. Like the Heat possibly

prash
06-06-2009, 12:50 PM
I could give a damn about Bosh. I say we ship his *** out.

Anyway, the point of my post is to educate the numbnuts who think Toronto is a small market.

We are the 5th largest sports market in NA after NY, LA, Chicago & Boston.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Name_the_five_largest_cities_in_North_America_by_p opulation_starting_with_the_largest

Don't you know Toronto was part of the original 6. And the first NBA game in the History of the NBA was played in Toronto?

Draco
06-06-2009, 12:53 PM
I assume that when he says that an old school guy told him to maximize his potential and take advantage of the opportunity to do so that meant not excepting less. Also if he wont take less to bring a star in why we would he take less to go to a team to play sidekick to a star? I'm not saying it's not possible that he is just saying all the right things with the intent on leaving but I call a spade a spade.

AFAIK. Canadian Fed Income tax is 29% for Bosh's bracket compared with 35% in the states. Ontario income tax is 11.6% compared with 0% for Miami. I thought Ontario's income tax rates would be higher but they're surprisingly lower compared with some of the other provinces. I have no idea about property taxes in Ontario or Miami or the various ways rich people might save a buck so it's hard for me to assess whether the tax differences are an issue.

Bosh qualifies for a 10.5% raise if he signs with the Raptors. Off hand I'd think he makes a little more money playing for the Raptors than if he played for the Heat. Then I suppose it depends whether Bosh wants to play with Wade or Bargnani.

IKAZ
06-06-2009, 01:18 PM
If you had a choice, would you play in Toronto, Canada or Miami, Fl?

Toronto or LA?
Toronto or NY?
Toronto or ATL?
Toronto or CHI?
Toronto or PHO?
Toronto or Hou?

get my drift


WHERE WAS ATLANTA last year? who the hell are the hawks anyways.. barely makin it to the playoffs last year.. where was chicago either???? how is phenoix now???? how is NY any better from 3 seasons ago

clearly im talkin to stupid kids who know nuttin bout bball..im sure you're the type of kid who has a joe johnson atlanta jersey or a rose jersey.. not a ewing jersey....


Ya'll dont know anythin bout toronto

ask ron artest what his favourite city is

Bosh will stay..if he doesnt who gives a crap.. no player is bigger than a franchise

business and marketing wise

players come and go

tkshy
06-06-2009, 01:19 PM
Don't really carehow big the market is, its still in Canada which sucks

USA BABY!!

Nice! Way to feed the stereotype about Americans. Toronto is just like an American city. I have been there a lot. The only differences are the streets are clean, less crime, a GREAT health care system, better education system. Dont' go bashing any of those things until you look it up.

There is a quote you should learn..."it is better to say nothing and let them think you are an idiot, then to say something a let them know you are"

GET MY DRIFT.

To those who think every NBA player wants a bigger market here are the stats...so what they will all play for the never make the playoff Knicks? LA...I wish (that's my team...GO LAKERS!), or Chicago who has done what exactly since MJ retired?

1.New York United States
2.Los Angeles United States
3.Chicago United States
4.Toronto Canada
5.Houston United States
6.Philadelphia United States
7.Phoenix United States
8.San Diego United States
9.Dallas United States
10.San Antonio United States
11.Montreal Canada
12.Detroit United States

Draco
06-06-2009, 01:24 PM
To those who think every NBA player wants a bigger market here are the stats...so what they will all play for the never make the playoff Knicks? LA...I wish (that's my team...GO LAKERS!), or Chicago who has done what exactly since MJ retired?

Who cares.. what the Bull's have done in the last 5 years has more relevance than what they did in 1999. In recent years the Bull's have been to the playoffs more often than the Raptors. The question really should be what have the Raptors done or what can they do to keep Bosh? IMO, the Bulls are a better team to play on (if I'm Bosh) than the Raptors.

Chi-Town Finest
06-06-2009, 01:41 PM
Who cares.. what the Bull's have done in the last 5 years has more relevance than what they did in 1999. In recent years the Bull's have been to the playoffs more often than the Raptors. The question really should be what have the Raptors done or what can they do to keep Bosh? IMO, the Bulls are a better team to play on (if I'm Bosh) than the Raptors.
Tell em' Draco :p.

ink
06-06-2009, 01:56 PM
Who cares.. what the Bull's have done in the last 5 years has more relevance than what they did in 1999. In recent years the Bull's have been to the playoffs more often than the Raptors. The question really should be what have the Raptors done or what can they do to keep Bosh? IMO, the Bulls are a better team to play on (if I'm Bosh) than the Raptors.

Of course you think that. You're a Bulls fan who hopes he'll play for your team. If he's looking to leave for greener pastures, he's going to want to go somewhere much greener.

Draco
06-06-2009, 02:14 PM
Of course you think that. You're a Bulls fan who hopes he'll play for your team. If he's looking to leave for greener pastures, he's going to want to go somewhere much greener.

As rosters around the NBA look today I don't see another team other than Miami or Portland that has pastures greener than Chicago that could suit both BC and Bosh's goals.

Mikeleafs
06-06-2009, 02:18 PM
THATS WHY FOOLS LIKE YOU SIT AND POST OVER HERE..

WHERE WAS ATLANTA last year? who the hell are the hawks anyways.. barely makin it to the playoffs last year.. where was chicago either???? how is phenoix now???? how is NY any better from 3 seasons ago

clearly im talkin to stupid kids who know nuttin bout bball..im sure you're the type of kid who has a joe johnson atlanta jersey or a rose jersey.. not a ewing jersey....


Ya'll dont know anythin bout toronto

ask ron artest what his favourite city is

Bosh will stay..if he doesnt who gives a crap.. no player is bigger than a franchise

business and marketing wise

players come and go

Thank you :clap:

These kids have no clue what they're talking about... I bet half of them wouldnt even be able to pont out Canada on a map, let alone Toronto

smith&wesson
06-06-2009, 02:56 PM
He's walking, which is the right move for Bosh. No offense to Toronto but he needs to play for a bigger market team.

TORONTO is a big market team.
5th largest city in north america
one of the most populated citys in north america.
and the raptors are top 5 in attendance at the acc centre.
plus his fan base isnt limited to the city but to the whole country rather.
before you say somthing like this do your research.
is the toronot maple leafs not a big market team ? they are in toronto arent they ? and the city loves basket ball just as much.

smith&wesson
06-06-2009, 03:08 PM
I think he walks... Who the hell would want to play in Canada their whole career?

Your gyal comes and plays with me every year, i dont hear a peep out of her. :cool:

have some respect for where ppl live. we dont talk **** about you guys,.

abe_froman
06-06-2009, 03:16 PM
I gotta disagree with you. The raps are a large market team and are amongst the teams with the highest revenue, current value and also a top five team in operating income. All these points would suggest that you are the one that is more than wrong in this case. Where does it say that the NBA does not consider us a largest market team??? No where.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/32/nba08_NBA-Team-Valuations_Rank.html

so you show a list that has you behind s.a. doesnt really help your case

try again

LanceUpperCut
06-06-2009, 03:20 PM
He's walking, which is the right move for Bosh. No offense to Toronto but he needs to play for a bigger market team.

well there is only about 2 or 3 cities that are a bigger market so does'nt leave him many options does it.

LanceUpperCut
06-06-2009, 03:29 PM
money doesnt count the same,that why tor isnt considered a large market

Ya soon are dollar will be higher again.

IRUAM #21
06-06-2009, 03:41 PM
That bigger market **** is so overrated.

Draco
06-06-2009, 03:47 PM
That bigger market **** is so overrated.

yeah, I think it might be overrated. what does it mean to play in a big market? Does Nike or Adidas sell more shoes in NY than they would in LA or Chicago. Television markets and NBA attendance aren't a reflection of the popultation size for a particular city.

abe_froman
06-06-2009, 03:49 PM
That bigger market **** is so overrated.

it is.but i guess its a pride thing with some people,like they want to be grouped in with something they feel as big or exclusive..dont know,just guessing

Eagles4Lyfe
06-07-2009, 12:44 PM
lol they clearly keep deleting my posts on this because they wont let me explain how truly messd americans are but w.e.. The point in this thread is about bosh..Chicago fans are in here saying bosh would rather play for them then us LMAO.. For what who seriously are the bulls. You guys have one player thats rose and you drafted him last year. We have a wayyy better team for bosh to play for..true PG in calderon and then we have a first overall pick in Bargnani.. That team needs to go rebuilding and guarantee bulls wont make playoffs next year.. Raps will be back in and bobcats should make it with a full team..You guys need to convince bosh more than we do. I dont even think gordon will resign with you guys to start with and even if he did the only thing bosh would want to come there for is to talk to chuck swirski

Draco
06-07-2009, 02:19 PM
lol they clearly keep deleting my posts on this because they wont let me explain how truly messd americans are but w.e.. The point in this thread is about bosh..Chicago fans are in here saying bosh would rather play for them then us LMAO.. For what who seriously are the bulls. You guys have one player thats rose and you drafted him last year. We have a wayyy better team for bosh to play for..true PG in calderon and then we have a first overall pick in Bargnani.. That team needs to go rebuilding and guarantee bulls wont make playoffs next year.. Raps will be back in and bobcats should make it with a full team..You guys need to convince bosh more than we do. I dont even think gordon will resign with you guys to start with and even if he did the only thing bosh would want to come there for is to talk to chuck swirski

They're the team that went to the playoffs 4 times in the last 5 years and went to the 2nd round. Who are the Raptors? The team that went to the playoffs twice in the last 5 years and never made it out of the 1st round.

The rumors coming from 3 or 4 ESPN sources suggest to me it's likely that Bosh bolts from TO and probably through a trade whether to the Bulls or another team. Believe what ya like, we'll find out what happens by 2010.

pigsnout
06-07-2009, 04:26 PM
Trade bosh before the start of the season for pf/sf with a longer contract.#1. david Lee (if he makes 10mil or less a year)+ galinari/ draft pick)#2. m.beasley, draft pick & (m.blount to match salary)#3.E.brand/speights+draft pick

blacknell
06-07-2009, 04:59 PM
he's coming back to dallas

slack_justin
06-07-2009, 05:05 PM
^^^^ Maybe but i hope not the Pistons would be a good place for him PF and Toronto will be trading him this year if they are smart unless of course Bosh wont extend with a new team.

DitchDat
06-07-2009, 05:47 PM
Toronto did try to surround him with talent though.
Not that I think Bosh is a player you build around, he's more of a sidekick. He's good, but if he's a complementary player he'll be more comfortable.

BluejaysFan08
06-07-2009, 06:20 PM
good now he can come sign with the knicks in 2010 and play with Lebron

Damn dude what drug are you on to get that kind of team together?
I gotta get me some of thatt.

Mile High Champ
06-07-2009, 06:59 PM
Bosh didn't say he wouldn't take less money to play somewhere else he appears to suggest he won't take less than a max contract to play for the Raptors.

Thats just an assumption. Based on what Bosh has said, he wants max money from any team that signs him...

Mile High Champ
06-07-2009, 07:01 PM
As rosters around the NBA look today I don't see another team other than Miami or Portland that has pastures greener than Chicago that could suit both BC and Bosh's goals.

Any team that made it out of the first round this year is in a better position to get bosh than Chicago...

Mile High Champ
06-07-2009, 07:01 PM
so you show a list that has you behind s.a. doesnt really help your case

try again

what???????

dtmagnet
06-07-2009, 07:10 PM
If trading is indeed the route the Raptors end up taking I believe the Beasley and Haslem deal makes the most sense, Beasley is a potential star while all the other offers I see contain mainly borderline stars and role players.

J_M_B
06-07-2009, 07:42 PM
Any one here think Bosh should go to Miami and play with Dwyane Wade?

dolfan720
06-07-2009, 07:55 PM
IMO the kings should go after him, he could lead them pretty far if you think about it. The kevin martin chris bosh combo would be deadly!!!

dolfan720
06-07-2009, 07:56 PM
Any one here think Bosh should go to Miami and play with Dwyane Wade?

not a bad idea either

HiphopRelated
06-07-2009, 08:01 PM
The 1st thing you have to remember is that Bosh controls where he gets traded because only if he signs an extension would a team trade assets for him...otherwise he has no value beyond being an exxpiring contract.

dee279
06-07-2009, 08:56 PM
That is your example for Toronto not drafting well?

In the 2006 draft, I would argue that the only team in the lottery that drafted better than Toronto was Portland (Aldridge, Roy). Argument could be made for Memphis with Gay, but I believe thatis debatable.

1. Bargnani
2. Aldridge
3. T. Thomas
4. A. Morrison
5. S. Williams
6. B. Roy
7. R Foye
8. R. Gay
9. P. O'Bryant
10. Sene
11. Redick
12. Armstrong
13. Sefolosha
14. Brewer

Bargnani is unbelievably talented and showing very promising progress. Many people still believe he will be the better player than Bosh.

If you want an example of poor draft history, check 2004 or 2005 :)

Well the people who are saying that, you might want to hope that their the ones saying Chris bosh is leaving Toronto if your a Toronto fan. Bargnani will never be at Bosh's level.

clutchski
06-07-2009, 09:23 PM
Well the people who are saying that, you might want to hope that their the ones saying Chris bosh is leaving Toronto if your a Toronto fan. Bargnani will never be at Bosh's level.

At best Bosh is a 22-10 guy. He's shown that game average consistently over the last 6 seasons in the NBA playing around 38 minutes a game as the franchise player. Il Mago has at least been improving every year over the last 3 seasons. And his defense was evidently better than CB's last year.

You can say 'never' all you want but you have no clue, do ya. I'd bet you barely even watch him play.

Why do you think half of us want to trade Bosh? Trust me, it's not at all because we think he 'might' leave in 2010.

Boston-Born
06-07-2009, 09:28 PM
That is your example for Toronto not drafting well?

In the 2006 draft, I would argue that the only team in the lottery that drafted better than Toronto was Portland (Aldridge, Roy). Argument could be made for Memphis with Gay, but I believe thatis debatable.

1. Bargnani
2. Aldridge
3. T. Thomas
4. A. Morrison
5. S. Williams
6. B. Roy
7. R Foye
8. R. Gay
9. P. O'Bryant
10. Sene
11. Redick
12. Armstrong
13. Sefolosha
14. Brewer

Bargnani is unbelievably talented and showing very promising progress. Many people still believe he will be the better player than Bosh.

If you want an example of poor draft history, check 2004 or 2005 :)

All better than Bargs...sorry my friend.

Halladay
06-07-2009, 09:34 PM
All this thread has proven is how many Americans have no clue about Toronto/Canada. No offense to you Americans who aren't ignorant.

clutchski
06-07-2009, 09:44 PM
All better than Bargs...sorry my friend.

are you joking? Corey Brewer?! :laugh:

my bad, RONNIE brewer. same :laugh: though

Draco
06-07-2009, 09:52 PM
At best Bosh is a 22-10 guy. He's shown that game average consistently over the last 6 seasons in the NBA playing around 38 minutes a game as the franchise player. Il Mago has at least been improving every year over the last 3 seasons. And his defense was evidently better than CB's last year.

You can say 'never' all you want but you have no clue, do ya. I'd bet you barely even watch him play.

Why do you think half of us want to trade Bosh? Trust me, it's not at all because we think he 'might' leave in 2010.

Not sure about that.. his PER dipped from 12.85 in his rookie year to 10.96 in 07/08 before coming up to 14.66 this past season. Those numbers pale in comparison with Bosh's PER over the years. It also looks like Bargs has a long way to go to average 10 rebounds.

BIGBREED
06-07-2009, 09:54 PM
Toronto and The New Orleans Hornets need to get into trade talks. For Toronto, Chris Bosh wants to play for a contender. For the Hornets, we are trying to free up future monies. Lets trade players:

Toronto Raptors get:
PF- David West ($9,075,000 w/player option in 2011/2012)
PG- Antoino Daniels ($6,600,000 expiring contract)

New Orleans Hornets get:
PF- Chris Bosh ($15,779,912 opt yr 2009/2010)

Gup
06-07-2009, 11:07 PM
Toronto and The New Orleans Hornets need to get into trade talks. For Toronto, Chris Bosh wants to play for a contender. For the Hornets, we are trying to free up future monies. Lets trade players:

Toronto Raptors get:
PF- David West ($9,075,000 w/player option in 2011/2012)
PG- Antoino Daniels ($6,600,000 expiring contract)

New Orleans Hornets get:
PF- Chris Bosh ($15,779,912 opt yr 2009/2010)

Why would we want an expiring contract?
Also, why would we trade Bosh for West?

I've seen/heard some pretty bad trade offerings here, but this is one of the worst. It fills none of our holes, only adding to what we plenty of (PF)

The best deal, is Beasley for Bosh.

cmellofan15
06-08-2009, 12:35 AM
are you joking? Corey Brewer?! :laugh:

my bad, RONNIE brewer. same :laugh: though

lol i thought he meant corey too

GCOOKIE7
06-08-2009, 01:05 AM
lol i thought he meant corey too

I'm ******** me pants.

ramansingh3
06-08-2009, 01:42 AM
Any team in the states can have bosh he isn't what the raptors need right now to produce a viable winning formula.

On the subject of players not wanting to play in Canada, Toronto is the 4th biggest market in North America and if some people are too arrogant to realize that it is a great city to be in and just because it is in Canada doesn't mean it should be written off.

VinceGully
06-08-2009, 01:54 AM
ahha chicago? i dont think so

really? where the **** else is he gonna go?

first off...all the NY Prick fans need to realize LEBRON AINT COMING yo...

therefore NOBODIES gonna follow him. Get over it, yall are gonna suck for a while.

abe_froman
06-08-2009, 02:32 AM
really? where the **** else is he gonna go?

first off...all the NY Prick fans need to realize LEBRON AINT COMING yo...

therefore NOBODIES gonna follow him. Get over it, yall are gonna suck for a while.

not anywhere i'm assuming is what he means by that.he a raps fan and thus still hopes he resigns with the club

lakerboy
06-08-2009, 03:02 AM
I don't think it's because of Canada. It's not because of Toronto.

Bosh will leave because the team sucks. Simple as that.

BIGBREED
06-08-2009, 10:08 AM
Why would we want an expiring contract?
Also, why would we trade Bosh for West?

I've seen/heard some pretty bad trade offerings here, but this is one of the worst. It fills none of our holes, only adding to what we plenty of (PF)

The best deal, is Beasley for Bosh.

To ask me "why would any NBA team would want an expiring contract" tells me that you don't know anything about the NBA. SO, with that being said, I'm not wasting my time answering your really bad questions.

Go, do some research and you'll find your answers!


[THE TORONTO RAPTORS ORGANIZATION IS A HOLE]

pebloemer
06-08-2009, 10:53 AM
To ask me "why would any NBA team would want an expiring contract" tells me that you don't know anything about the NBA. SO, with that being said, I'm not wasting my time answering your really bad questions.

Go, do some research and you'll find your answers!


[THE TORONTO RAPTORS ORGANIZATION IS A HOLE]

I think it is a valid question.

Bosh is an expiring contract. So why would the Raptor's trade him to a team for another expiring contract? What benefit does the team gain from that? Why not just let him expire?

That being said, West is an enticing piece. He is definitely a very good player. I wouldn't be surprised if some type of deal could be struck with NO. An expiring as the trade filler is better than a contract running for multiple years, but the Raptor's would still likely be over the cap with their contracts by 2010 if they traded Bosh and took on West's contract (which is a good contract, but still a big contract nonetheless). They have a lot of signing to make this off-season and I doubt they will be one year deals.

If Bosh is leaving, the Raptor's will need to build around Bargnani, Calderon and hopefully Marion. They will be looking for young pieces, draft picks, or shedding anyones salary that runs past 2010 (Humphries, Banks, Kapono). If they don't get that in return, I sincerely doubt he is traded until (the deadline if the Raptor's start slow) or at all if the Raptor's have a good season up to that point. Worst case scenario is a huge expiring before the greatest free agent class in probably the history of the NBA.

To the person who stated "I don't think it's because of Canada. It's not because of Toronto.Bosh will leave because the team sucks. Simple as that," I agree 100%. They sucked last year anyways. If they don't turn it around, that is the reason he'll leave.

effen5
06-08-2009, 11:04 AM
lol they clearly keep deleting my posts on this because they wont let me explain how truly messd americans are but w.e.. The point in this thread is about bosh..Chicago fans are in here saying bosh would rather play for them then us LMAO.. For what who seriously are the bulls. You guys have one player thats rose and you drafted him last year. We have a wayyy better team for bosh to play for..true PG in calderon and then we have a first overall pick in Bargnani.. That team needs to go rebuilding and guarantee bulls wont make playoffs next year.. Raps will be back in and bobcats should make it with a full team..You guys need to convince bosh more than we do. I dont even think gordon will resign with you guys to start with and even if he did the only thing bosh would want to come there for is to talk to chuck swirski

This post made me laugh out loud because of how ******** you really are.

First...Chicago >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toronto
Second Rose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Calderon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bRwEXjE_Io

Also who are the Bulls? Lets see, the Bulls had the greatest player EVER in NBA HISTORY. We also made the playoffs without an all-star 4 out of the last 5 years, and last year was done with a rookie in Rose, Noah in his second year, and Tyrus in his third year. We went head to head with the defending champs (of course with out Garnett) taking it to 7 games to probably the best first round series EVER and pretty much shows us that we are very close to becoming a contender, probably one or two players away. So that means we need to rebuild?

What has the Raptors done? Made two post season appearance (with first round losses) in the past 7 years, if anything the Raptors should rebuild. You guys already have a tough time keeping players on your team anyways.

Rapthug
06-08-2009, 11:06 AM
At best Bosh is a 22-10 guy. He's shown that game average consistently over the last 6 seasons in the NBA playing around 38 minutes a game as the franchise player. Il Mago has at least been improving every year over the last 3 seasons. And his defense was evidently better than CB's last year.

You can say 'never' all you want but you have no clue, do ya. I'd bet you barely even watch him play.

Why do you think half of us want to trade Bosh? Trust me, it's not at all because we think he 'might' leave in 2010.

Amen. Bosh's big advantage over Bargs right now is his rebounding. Bargs defense is superior to Bosh's. Bargs is a better passer. They both are primarily jump shooters but Bargs range is unlimited. Both lack post moves but at least Bargs is working on his. Right now, Bosh would be better as his game is polished but Bargs upside is far greater as his game improved dramticly in the second half. To be honest, if the game is on the line, I'd rather have Bargs taking the last shot over CB4....even right now.

pebloemer
06-08-2009, 11:10 AM
Well the people who are saying that, you might want to hope that their the ones saying Chris bosh is leaving Toronto if your a Toronto fan. Bargnani will never be at Bosh's level.

Well future will tell that one. What reasons do you have to believe he won't? He has more range, more go-to moves, is a better man-on-man defender already, his career just starter slower than Bosh. I doubt he will ever be a better rebounder, but other aspects of his game have become much stronger.


All better than Bargs...sorry my friend.

Well I stated Portland drafted better, so yes I agree with Aldridge and Roy. I think Gay is debateable, which I also stated. So really the only name you threw down there was Brewer, who I like very much as a player, but to suggest he is better and/or will be better than Bargnani is laughable to me (and others it seems).

By the way, here are Bargnani's numbers for the season. If people haven't been following his progress, I suggest you look at his numbers from December through to the end of of the season (4.5 month period). I will also note he has shown more ability, interest and improvement in his defense than Bosh has shown this past season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=2987

This isn't really a Bargnani thread though, so I should probably leave it at that. My original response was simply to note my surprise that someone used Bargnani as an example of poor drafting from Toronto when examples such as 2004, 2005 are much much more indisputable. Everyone jumped on the Bargnani discussion, which I'm sure could have a thread of its own.

Rapthug
06-08-2009, 11:12 AM
This post made me laugh out loud because of how ******** you really are.

First...Chicago >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toronto
Second Rose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Calderon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bRwEXjE_Io

Also who are the Bulls? Lets see, the Bulls had the greatest player EVER in NBA HISTORY. We also made the playoffs without an all-star 4 out of the last 5 years, and last year was done with a rookie in Rose, Noah in his second year, and Tyrus in his third year. We went head to head with the defending champs (of course with out Garnett) taking it to 7 games to probably the best first round series EVER and pretty much shows us that we are very close to becoming a contender, probably one or two players away. So that means we need to rebuild?

What has the Raptors done? Made two post season appearance (with first round losses) in the past 7 years, if anything the Raptors should rebuild. You guys already have a tough time keeping players on your team anyways.

This seems like a childish arguement. Honestly, I think both teams are in a similiar situation. Chicago lucked out with Rose and he is going to be a stud but he is not superior to Calderon. Jose destroyed Rose in his first game back from injury. Chicago has good players but poor drafting by Paxson has screwed Chicago. There is some talent but all the players are too similiar.

ink
06-08-2009, 11:13 AM
This post made me laugh out loud because of how ******** you really are.

First...Chicago >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toronto
Second Rose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Calderon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bRwEXjE_Io

Also who are the Bulls? Lets see, the Bulls had the greatest player EVER in NBA HISTORY. We also made the playoffs without an all-star 4 out of the last 5 years, and last year was done with a rookie in Rose, Noah in his second year, and Tyrus in his third year. We went head to head with the defending champs (of course with out Garnett) taking it to 7 games to probably the best first round series EVER and pretty much shows us that we are very close to becoming a contender, probably one or two players away. So that means we need to rebuild?

What has the Raptors done? Made two post season appearance (with first round losses) in the past 7 years, if anything the Raptors should rebuild. You guys already have a tough time keeping players on your team anyways.

It's irrelevant to compare franchise histories. And yes, beating the Celtics without KG is far less of an accomplishment than actually beating the defending NBA champions. The point is this: the trade does not involve the Bulls entire team. It involves a few select players. The Bulls have a team of almost stars and some of us just don't want to trade for players with little upside. Rose isn't going to be in any of the deals, right? If we're not going to get equal value for Bosh (which is hard to do in a trade of an All star) I'm at least hoping Colangelo looks somewhere other than the Bulls.

ink
06-08-2009, 11:19 AM
Well future will tell that one. What reasons do you have to believe he won't? He has more range, more go-to moves, is a better man-on-man defender already, his career just starter slower than Bosh. I doubt he will ever be a better rebounder, but other aspects of his game have become much stronger.


Bargnani is also much tougher and stronger. His detractors continue to point out the low rebounding numbers and ignore the fact that it's management that has him playing away from the hoop. Even Colangelo acknowledges that Andrea will never put up high rebounding numbers because of the perimeter positioning the team wants from him. So rebounding numbers are not an accurate reflection of his value as a player.

Rapthug
06-08-2009, 11:19 AM
OMG! I can't believe you posted that video. One clip of a good move.....that's it. You should watch the whole video....especially the final score where Jose had a double double and the Raps won by 20 in Chicago.

Perhaps you may want to put your other foot in your mouth to wash down your first foot with.

ink
06-08-2009, 11:19 AM
OMG! I can't believe you posted that video. One clip of a good move.....that's it. You should watch the whole video....especially the final score where Jose had a double double and the Raps won by 20 in Chicago.

Perhaps you may want to put your other foot in your mouth to wash down your first foot with.

There's no point in stooping to their level by trying to rip good players right?

effen5
06-08-2009, 11:21 AM
OMG! I can't believe you posted that video. One clip of a good move.....that's it. You should watch the whole video....especially the final score where Jose had a double double and the Raps won by 20 in Chicago.

Perhaps you may want to put your other foot in your mouth to wash down your first foot with.

End of the day, that game meant if we won we would have played Orlando rather then the Celtics, and I would much rather play the Celtics in the playoffs (again without KG).

effen5
06-08-2009, 11:23 AM
It's irrelevant to compare franchise histories. And yes, beating the Celtics without KG is far less of an accomplishment than actually beating the defending NBA champions. The point is this: the trade does not involve the Bulls entire team. It involves a few select players. The Bulls have a team of almost stars and some of us just don't want to trade for players with little upside. Rose isn't going to be in any of the deals, right? If we're not going to get equal value for Bosh (which is hard to do in a trade of an All star) I'm at least hoping Colangelo looks somewhere other than the Bulls.

You are right, it is hard to get equal value for Bosh, its hard to get equal value for anyone for these days.

LA_Raiders
06-08-2009, 11:24 AM
He ain't coming to LA thats for sure...

Draco
06-08-2009, 11:29 AM
This seems like a childish arguement. Honestly, I think both teams are in a similiar situation. Chicago lucked out with Rose and he is going to be a stud but he is not superior to Calderon. Jose destroyed Rose in his first game back from injury. Chicago has good players but poor drafting by Paxson has screwed Chicago. There is some talent but all the players are too similiar.

Does it really matter that a 27 year old pg in his prime had a better game than a 20 year old rookie trying to learn the position? Calderon is superior to Rose.. wow, that means a lot. :rolleyes:

The Bulls have a lot more assets than the Raptors and so moving forward with possible trade scenerios the Bulls are not in a situation similar to the Raptors. The only similarities lie in having redundant assets at PF for the Raps and at SG, PF and SF for the Bulls.

Poor drafting by Paxson? Relative to other GMs he's done a great job.