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noname part5
06-03-2009, 07:17 PM
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090603&content_id=5127470&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

CrippledRam
06-03-2009, 07:18 PM
Hellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllls ya!

CrippledRam
06-03-2009, 07:19 PM
Quite alot but he's signed cheap through 2012. Gorkyz is the only loss. Morton would never crack the rotation and Locke has been horrid.

A_Brave_Pack
06-03-2009, 07:19 PM
Way to go FW!!! (As long as Medlen is not part of the deal...)

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 07:22 PM
Trade for Gorky, Morton, and Locke

¿QUE?
06-03-2009, 07:22 PM
Is Shaefer involved? Jw about different names. Who do you guys think is invlolved?

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 07:23 PM
Gorky, Locke, and Morton

noname part5
06-03-2009, 07:23 PM
Gorkys, Locke and Morton

16-McCann-16
06-03-2009, 07:24 PM
im so HAPPY

CrippledRam
06-03-2009, 07:24 PM
.853 OPS Last yr....819 This yr. This is a real hitter

gocubs2118
06-03-2009, 07:25 PM
Thats a nice trade for you guys.

rtgthree
06-03-2009, 07:25 PM
Complete victory. He plays center, and losing Morton, Locke and Gorkys is almost no hit to the depth of our system. Locked up cheap too; he's due $11 million for 2010 and 2011, plus a $10.65 million option for 2012. Salary this year is only $2 million, so there's room for the Braves to continue maneuvering.

This is GREAT news.

KKell2507
06-03-2009, 07:25 PM
wow what a day for the braves! release one of the most respected pitchers in his era, trade 3 top prospects for an all star outfielder, and call up one of the top prospects in baseball. Now lets get a win and call it a day!

A_Brave_Pack
06-03-2009, 07:26 PM
This has been a whirlwind of a day!!!!

*Come from behind win
*Release of TG
*Hanson gets called up
*Trade for McLouth

WOW! I need to take a breath!

iamaj
06-03-2009, 07:26 PM
This thrills me to no end! We're going to get some production out of CF!

ccugrad1
06-03-2009, 07:26 PM
Braves raped the Pirates IMO, especially for how cheaply he is signed.

BRAVE KID
06-03-2009, 07:26 PM
WHOAAA REALLY?? freakin awesome

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 07:27 PM
Watch out Mets and Phils.

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 07:28 PM
Does anyone think we might trade Schafer and Frenchy for a right fielder?

zzConflict
06-03-2009, 07:28 PM
Hahaha, what a robbery. Do the Pirates ever want to win? Great trade for you guys if the reported package is true.

ccugrad1
06-03-2009, 07:29 PM
Absolute steal for Atlanta

KKell2507
06-03-2009, 07:29 PM
so does this mean schafer is down for the rest of the year barring an injury since i realize mcclouth plays center? and if hes signed through 2012 looks like schafer could be out of town as well unless he plays left field? i know he wasnt performing this year but i dont think half a season is enough to give up on a great prospect. jw what may happen to him now

Seamhead
06-03-2009, 07:30 PM
When I was first hearing of the dealing during the Braves - Cubs broadcast, I thought I would be underwhelmed, but I like the deal. Mclouth is not a great CFer by any means, but he's a pretty good player, who is signed to a relatively cheap deal. He'll bring surplus value.

CrippledRam
06-03-2009, 07:30 PM
His D is getting better in CF. -18 in '07...-1 in '08

CrippledRam
06-03-2009, 07:30 PM
When Shaefer is ready, McLouth will move to corner of

BRAVE KID
06-03-2009, 07:31 PM
amazing deal, way to go Wren.:clap:

iamaj
06-03-2009, 07:32 PM
Anyone think Jordan might replace Frenchy in right after this year? I like Jordan's upside and maybe most of a year in AAA might do the trick for him.

uncblue2332
06-03-2009, 07:32 PM
no McLouth has a gold glove there was already talk gorkys would make shafer move to LF or RF and mclouth would do the same...only problem i have is he is a LH bat but at least we have a good OF bat now

HCo HERO
06-03-2009, 07:34 PM
The braves just got Nate McClouth and I j*zzed in my pants!!!

uncblue2332
06-03-2009, 07:35 PM
The braves just got Nate McClouth and I j*zzed in my pants!!!

nate mclouth hit a homerun and I jizzed in my pants!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4

Seamhead
06-03-2009, 07:37 PM
His D is getting better in CF. -18 in '07...-1 in '08

There's a huge difference between he's getting better and he's done better up to this point.

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 07:37 PM
Also we are playing the Pirates next week.

GLASSMAN
06-03-2009, 07:38 PM
This has been a whirlwind of a day!!!!

*Come from behind win
*Release of TG
*Hanson gets called up
*Trade for McLouth

WOW! I need to take a breath!

We have penchant for doing things in streaks.

CrippledRam
06-03-2009, 07:39 PM
no McLouth has a gold glove there was already talk gorkys would make shafer move to LF or RF and mclouth would do the same...only problem i have is he is a LH bat but at least we have a good OF bat now

Shaefer has been projected to be an amazing CF. I bet he stays there. Mclouth-Shaefer-Heyward...droool. Frenchy will be traded somewhere when Shaef is ready imo.

bravesatl
06-03-2009, 07:40 PM
Hells yeah very nice!!

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 07:40 PM
Does anyone think he can play by tommorow.

rtgthree
06-03-2009, 07:42 PM
This does nothing to affect Schafer's future in the organization. McLouth still needs to move to a corner at some point. But this does give Schafer the whole rest of the season to finish developing, and he needs that.

What a great day to shake up the club after the win last night! Get Hanson up, get McLouth in...Wren did exactly what he needed to do, and got these guys on their horses. Would not surprise me to see the team reel off a win streak given this emotional high, and we are now VERY serious contenders.

Here's a question, though: where does McLouth hit in the lineup? Could he be the leadoff hitter we've been waiting for?

gocubs2118
06-03-2009, 07:42 PM
Does anyone think he can play by tommorow.

I hope not :D

iamaj
06-03-2009, 07:44 PM
McLouth is on pace to lead the team in HRs, do we want him leading off? I'd like to see him protect Chipper because he'll play in more games than McCann will.

A_Brave_Pack
06-03-2009, 07:44 PM
Here's a question, though: where does McLouth hit in the lineup? Could he be the leadoff hitter we've been waiting for?

I like him 5th behind McCann. Or let him leadoff and bat Kells 5th.

ATLKoos16
06-03-2009, 07:45 PM
Does anyone think he can play by tommorow.

I do, they are playing in Pitt and the game got rained out today

BRAVE KID
06-03-2009, 07:45 PM
This does nothing to affect Schafer's future in the organization. McLouth still needs to move to a corner at some point. But this does give Schafer the whole rest of the season to finish developing, and he needs that.

What a great day to shake up the club after the win last night! Get Hanson up, get McLouth in...Wren did exactly what he needed to do, and got these guys on their horses. Would not surprise me to see the team reel off a win streak given this emotional high, and we are now VERY serious contenders.

Here's a question, though: where does McLouth hit in the lineup? Could he be the leadoff hitter we've been waiting for?it depends how much of a power threat is he considered to be??

nps6724
06-03-2009, 07:46 PM
Hopefully this will lead to Frenchy moving on in the offseason.

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 07:47 PM
Brin Barton just sent up also.

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 07:47 PM
Brian

CrippledRam
06-03-2009, 07:47 PM
We more or less got Jair Jurrjins and McLouth for one yr of Renteria and Locke. =]

ATLKoos16
06-03-2009, 07:48 PM
I like him 5th behind McCann. Or let him leadoff and bat Kells 5th.

I would like him in either of those spots

bravesatl
06-03-2009, 07:51 PM
leadoff

nps6724
06-03-2009, 07:53 PM
You don't leadoff with a 25-HR guy. That's dumb and a waste of his power.

iamaj
06-03-2009, 07:54 PM
^ Agreed

BRAVE KID
06-03-2009, 07:55 PM
You don't leadoff with a 25-HR guy. That's dumb and a waste of his power.so I am guessing you aren't a fan of the cubs using alfonso as their lead-off hitter?? just a guess..

nps6724
06-03-2009, 07:56 PM
Not at all. Though Sori apparently can't hit anywhere else in the lineup. McLouth can as he's hit 3rd all year.

MrJones
06-03-2009, 07:57 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=434661

Big Nate's Bio page (for those of you too lazy to look)

atl_braves_fan
06-03-2009, 08:04 PM
Is it too greedy to ask for Willingham too? I still don't think he would cost too much and we still need a RH bat in the lineup.

ATLKoos16
06-03-2009, 08:09 PM
i'm really looking forward to seeing this guy in a braves uni. Just think, if shaefer starts hitting down in AAA and Frenchy keeps hitting like he is, we call up JS put Nate in right and let JS man center. That would be a tight

nps6724
06-03-2009, 08:09 PM
If we got Willingham for RF, WOW.

KJ
Esco
Chipper
Mac
McLouth
Willingham
GA/Diaz
Kotchman
Pitcher

rtgthree
06-03-2009, 08:09 PM
Not too greedy to ask for Willingham. We still need one more outfielder.

BRAVE KID
06-03-2009, 08:10 PM
Is it too greedy to ask for Willingham too? I still don't think he would cost too much and we still need a RH bat in the lineup.no we need another bat...the pressure is on garrett and franky.

MrJones
06-03-2009, 08:10 PM
Is it too greedy to ask for Willingham too? I still don't think he would cost too much and we still need a RH bat in the lineup.

Brian Barton was just called up today (RH).:clap:

http://www.rototimes.com/mlb/news.php?tqid=6927&nid=136350

atl_braves_fan
06-03-2009, 08:12 PM
Let's go get him (willingham) then and see if we can win this thing.

njbravefan
06-03-2009, 08:15 PM
Nice deal, not the ripoff some are making it out to be, Gorkys will be an All Star, Morton dominated the minors before a BIG bump in the road in the majors last year, And Locke's a good prospect. McLouth instantly adds a bat to our lineup, tho not taking care of the RH bat need

jmb8311
06-03-2009, 08:20 PM
Braves fan who lives in Western PA here, and this trade has me thrilled. Nate was the best thing going for the Buccos and their fans, at least a couple loyal Pirates fans that I'm close friends with, are irate about this trade. The biggest beef they has isn't with the talent they got back, but because the Pirates are stacked in the minors in the OF already with McCutcheon (who is getting called up), Pearce, and Tobata. Still, a great deal for the Braves. It appears they believe in the team this year, which is a nice thing to see. GA has been warming up lately, and with the addition of Nate the Great, the Braves have legitimate sticking power to stay in this race now.

brazilianblur
06-03-2009, 08:21 PM
On a side note, seeing as McLouth is signed through 2011, what happens if JS finds his stroke and does really well? Do we move shaefer to LF or McLouth? I see us moving McLouth over, JS defense is really good.

rtgthree
06-03-2009, 08:23 PM
Nice deal, not the ripoff some are making it out to be, Gorkys will be an All Star, Morton dominated the minors before a BIG bump in the road in the majors last year, And Locke's a good prospect. McLouth instantly adds a bat to our lineup, tho not taking care of the RH bat need

I don't see Hernandez as an All-Star just yet. His top PECOTA comparable is still Carlos Gomez, which is value for speed and defense but not much else. I like Gorkys, don't get me wrong, but I'm not seeing the All-Star there yet. I like Morton...he'll be a #3 for the Pirates, but he's a spare part in the Braves' organization. And I have just never liked Locke much..."toolsy" pitchers bother me. He just hasn't seemed to get much better as he's advanced, and his peripherals have never blown me away. There's still a lot that can go wrong for him, especially the way he's struggling this year (7 ER in 2/3 of an inning in his last start). There's plenty of pitching depth behind him (especially with the pitcher-heavy draft class).

A_Brave_Pack
06-03-2009, 08:24 PM
Anyone interested, MLBNetwork is about to talk about the Braves "wild day".

PMayo24
06-03-2009, 08:27 PM
Great deal for you guys. Nice pickup. It is going to very fun summer with 3 teams gunning for the division.

Brave4life
06-03-2009, 08:34 PM
Great deal for you guys. Nice pickup. It is going to very fun summer with 3 teams gunning for the division.

Thanx

AustinTheGreat
06-03-2009, 08:47 PM
i knew we needed another player to contend. Im happy as a braves again. I'll take off the brown bag.

NYMetros
06-03-2009, 09:03 PM
Pirates fan here. Congrats on getting McLouth. I'll be rooting for him with you guys. But these prospects you guys gave us.. are they any good?

HCo HERO
06-03-2009, 09:03 PM
I think the lineup should be:

Kelly LH 2B
Yunel RH SS
McClouth LH CF
Chip SW 3B
Mac LH C
Willingham RH RF
Anderson LH/Diaz RH LF
Kotch LH 1B

This Breaks up the lefthanded bats, and Nate will get some great pitches in front of chip and Mac can protect too. No Loogy could stop us!!!

Is it me or is that lineup stacked?

nps6724
06-03-2009, 09:08 PM
No way Chipper doesn't bat 3rd IMO.

Vinny642
06-03-2009, 09:12 PM
Schafer will be on the bench hopefully he dont let him go, because that can come back to bite us in the ***

Braves_Fan_RSD
06-03-2009, 09:13 PM
Schafer will be on the bench hopefully he dont let him go, because that can come back to bite us in the ***

Schafer is in the minor leagues

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 09:20 PM
BTW Schafer is 0-5 with 2 ks today.

iamaj
06-03-2009, 09:23 PM
I hope Jordan can get it together.

GLASSMAN
06-03-2009, 09:26 PM
I hope Jordan can get it together.

He'$ got a lot of reason$ to get it together. He will.

flea
06-03-2009, 09:27 PM
Why are people talking about Josh Willingham and Schafer coming off the bench? Hopefully these are Pirates fans.

MR2
06-03-2009, 09:34 PM
Who wants to bet that the Braves trade Schafer before the 31st? He got sent down, we get an All-Star CF, with Blanco to back him up, Schafer is good as gone, he was just up this year for trade bait, maybe he goes to Gwinnett and finds his bat, so we get someone good for him.

soobahk40050
06-03-2009, 09:34 PM
Does seem like a decent trade, but we have been hurt by the pirates before. I say lets wait and see how this guys does. Also, I am unfamilar with the Pirates Ballbark. Is it a hitters park or pitchers park?

MrJones
06-03-2009, 09:36 PM
Pirates fan here. Congrats on getting McLouth. I'll be rooting for him with you guys. But these prospects you guys gave us.. are they any good?

Morton = Yes, Gorkys = Yes, Locke....= maybe.

uncblue2332
06-03-2009, 09:36 PM
Who wants to bet that the Braves trade Schafer before the 31st? He got sent down, we get an All-Star CF, with Blanco to back him up, Schafer is good as gone, he was just up this year for trade bait, maybe he goes to Gwinnett and finds his bat, so we get someone good for him.

then who plays in RF when we have heyward come up.....schafer, heyward and mclouth would be dynamic. Schafer is definently staying they arent giving up on him this early but I think blanco goes somewhere since we just called up brian barton

MR2
06-03-2009, 09:40 PM
Keep in mind the 50 game suspension last year, Schafer messed up, I don't think they move Frenchy, it looks like Frenchy, Mclouth, Heyward in LF, now if Frenchy comes around, then that is a stacked lineup. Trade Schafer for prospects, pitching preferred. My own opinion!

bravesfan22193
06-03-2009, 09:40 PM
WE ARE NOT TRADING JORDAN SCHAFER

I felt it was necessary to use caps because some people cant seem to grasp it

Braves_Fan_RSD
06-03-2009, 09:41 PM
Who wants to bet that the Braves trade Schafer before the 31st? He got sent down, we get an All-Star CF, with Blanco to back him up, Schafer is good as gone, he was just up this year for trade bait, maybe he goes to Gwinnett and finds his bat, so we get someone good for him.

ill take that bet and give you 1000:1 odds how much you wanna go for lol :pity:

MR2
06-03-2009, 09:47 PM
What has Wren done this year that has surprised you. A lot, Glavine is old, but he was shafted in goin through all the pomp and circumstance to get cut today. I feel we are going in a new direction, and Schafer is on his way out. I want him to make it in ATL as much as anyone, but he was sent back to the minors by someone who keeps players in a game no matter how bad they are playing. Seriously, does no one believe they will trade Schafer??

A_Brave_Pack
06-03-2009, 09:50 PM
What has Wren done this year that has surprised you. A lot, Glavine is old, but he was shafted in goin through all the pomp and circumstance to get cut today. I feel we are going in a new direction, and Schafer is on his way out. I want him to make it in ATL as much as anyone, but he was sent back to the minors by someone who keeps players in a game no matter how bad they are playing. Seriously, does no one believe they will trade Schafer??

I think the time to trade Schafer has passed. If the Braves were going to trade Schafer it would have been before the start of this season.

bravesfan22193
06-03-2009, 09:52 PM
Bobby Cox doesn't make personnel choices, such as who is on the 40 man roster, the 25 man roster, etc. Wren does. They are going in a new direction, keeping their premier young talent. If they were going to trade Schafer then they would have kept Gorkys, simple as that. McLouth is a corner OF as of next year and Schafer is in center

MrJones
06-03-2009, 09:56 PM
What has Wren done this year that has surprised you. A lot, Glavine is old, but he was shafted in goin through all the pomp and circumstance to get cut today. I feel we are going in a new direction, and Schafer is on his way out. I want him to make it in ATL as much as anyone, but he was sent back to the minors by someone who keeps players in a game no matter how bad they are playing. Seriously, does no one believe they will trade Schafer??

No, I don't. Schafer will have to continue to struggle mightily for the rest of the season in AAA in order for him to be shown the door... and even then I'm not so sure . He's just has too much potential to give up on this early.

MR2
06-03-2009, 10:02 PM
That's like saying someone else raises your kids, Cox has a choice of who he plays, regardless of the status of the player. Why else would he have stuck with Francoeur last year when he utterly and horribly sucked? Seriously! Cox does not make personnel decisions!

Jacob10
06-03-2009, 10:03 PM
I like this trade a lot really. We have enough pitching for the next few years so that's not a huge loss, and Gorkey could only ever hope to be as good as McClouth is right now.

Don't understand why the Pirates would trade him though. I know they have a lot of prospect depth in the outfield, but McClouth was one of their guys that had panned out, and under team control reasonably for years. You hope your prospects end up like him. Why trade him?

ATLKoos16
06-03-2009, 10:07 PM
WE ARE NOT TRADING JORDAN SCHAFER

I felt it was necessary to use caps because some people cant seem to grasp it

Exactly. He isnt going anywhere. He is gonna be a stud he just needs to get his swing and his confidence back. And hopefully he'll get regular rest, to get his wrist all the way healed

bravesfan22193
06-03-2009, 10:12 PM
That's like saying someone else raises your kids, Cox has a choice of who he plays, regardless of the status of the player. Why else would he have stuck with Francoeur last year when he utterly and horribly sucked? Seriously! Cox does not make personnel decisions!


But you said Schafer would get traded and cox has very little say in this

littleknighty
06-03-2009, 10:14 PM
Good trade for both teams. I think Nates Numbers will go up in Atl. He had really good numbers with Bay and Nady in the lineup last year. I think he will thrive with Chipper and Mac in the lineup.

UNC, do you think Mclouth is an option now.

bravesfan22193
06-03-2009, 10:18 PM
not only that but his BABIP is .263 i believe whereas his career avg is .285 and last 2 years its been close to .300

Maholm28
06-03-2009, 10:21 PM
Congrats Guys, You got a steal here. Mclouth is a great player and I am upset to have seen him go.I would say with all the injuries the Mets have and the Phillies Rotation that this move makes you Top contenders in the East.Unless the Mets and Phillies make a move I see you guys winning the division with the Phillies second and the Mets 3rd.

Any info on the prospects we got??

bravesfan22193
06-03-2009, 10:25 PM
Morton will be up in Pitt before the end of the year and he's a solid back end of the rotation option. He was going to run out of options before a place opened up here so we needed to move him while his value was still positive. Not a stud but still of value. Locke is a giant question mark but theres definitely talent there. Hernandez is very good, much like McCutcheon (sp?) in that he can run, field, and get on base but theres little hope for power.

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 10:26 PM
Nvm

iamaj
06-03-2009, 10:34 PM
With the Phils trying to run away, we got Nate at the right time. If our pitching holds up, then maybe we'll get enough runs to contend.

hawk2012
06-03-2009, 10:36 PM
We gave up to much in this deal i would rather keep morton over jojo, hernandez i think will be better than schafer ever will be, and givin up the number 7 prospect in locke when the 4th rated prospect was already goin was stupid. we should have at least got a pen arm for that load.

nps6724
06-03-2009, 10:37 PM
Locke has been horrible at Myrtle Beach. He can be rated whatever, production is what matters.

I'd also like to keep Morton, but somehow I doubt Pittsburgh would've traded McLouth for Jo-Jo and 2 scrubs.

iamaj
06-03-2009, 10:41 PM
I prefer Morton over Jo-Jo, too, but with his anemic performance, I bet the Pirates didn't want him.

Gorkys was expendable with McLouth coming aboard (they had to have wanted a CF in return). I hope Jordan can turn it around, but if he can't, we do have a CF that is serviceable for a few years.

bravesfan22193
06-03-2009, 10:42 PM
Locke is our second best lefty, Rohrbough better and we also have deVall, we're fine there. Hernandez may end up being better than Schafer but Schafer is further along, has a higher ceiling, and actually has power. Sure he struggled this year but he also showed that even if he's not hitting he can get on base, the opposite of a Frenchy, leading me to believe he'll get this resolved. 2/3 of a season in Triple A should straighten him out. reyes has negative value, of course we'd rather have Morton but you have to give up value to get good piece(s) back hawk

Brave4life
06-03-2009, 10:50 PM
I was looking at his splits and his away numbers worry me .176 avg.

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_splits.jsp?c_id=atl&playerID=434661&statType=1

jmtapia
06-03-2009, 10:51 PM
Great move from the Braves and Wren...we needed a bat and we got it...

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 10:55 PM
This is how i think about it too make my mind think that this trade was really good.
1. We got Jair Jurrjens and Gorky for Edgar. I would have take Edgar for Jair straight up so i pretend we never got Gorky. Then i think the trade was like
Locke, Edgar, and Morton for Jair and Nate and it makes this trade sound REALLY good. :)

jmtapia
06-03-2009, 10:56 PM
The point of this trade is that it makes us better NOW!!!!

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 10:57 PM
I was looking at his splits and his away numbers worry me .176 avg.

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_splits.jsp?c_id=atl&playerID=434661&statType=1

What was his away stats from last year?

iamaj
06-03-2009, 10:57 PM
I was looking at his splits and his away numbers worry me .176 avg.

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_splits.jsp?c_id=atl&playerID=434661&statType=1

Do those stats sync up with years past or is it just this year?

I don't remember Pittsburgh being a hitter's paradise (definitely not on par with the new Yankee Stadium), so maybe once he acclimates to the Ted, he'll hit well in Atlanta.

BRAVE KID
06-03-2009, 10:59 PM
The point of this trade is that it makes us better NOW!!!!and in the future...no rental for once.

nps6724
06-03-2009, 10:59 PM
I was looking at his splits and his away numbers worry me .176 avg.

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_splits.jsp?c_id=atl&playerID=434661&statType=1

It's because his BABIP is .164 in away games. If that normalizes to league average (.290-.300), he'd be hitting .302-.312.

Brave4life
06-03-2009, 10:59 PM
What was his away stats from last year?


.289

i think he will do better protected by chip and mac i wonder where he hits 3-4-5-6

ecyrb912
06-03-2009, 11:00 PM
first off, ill reitterate the popular opinion, schafer is going nowhere, he is still the centerfielder of the future. mcclouth will move to a corner. aside from that why would he be traded at a point when his value is about as low as it can get?

as to where mcclouth will hit, probably a little bit of everywhere, depending on the team chemistry at the moment. anywhere at the top but third.

and to all the pirates fans, theres a prospect sub-forum on the main page with tons of information about all three prospects in the trade.

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 11:00 PM
Well from his hitting chart he is 6/20 but does not include ks in Turner Field
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?c_id=atl&playerID=434661&statType=1

GreatMustachio1
06-03-2009, 11:02 PM
Anyone think Jordan might replace Frenchy in right after this year? I like Jordan's upside and maybe most of a year in AAA might do the trick for him.

i think when shafer is ready he will play center and mcclouth will play right.
i guess but i dont really know

jmtapia
06-03-2009, 11:04 PM
i think Cody Johnson made this deal a little more easier to make...

Brave4life
06-03-2009, 11:04 PM
here is everything about him

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=6220&type=batting&year=2009

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 11:06 PM
He has pretty even stats from 2006-2009 in away and home.

Brave4life
06-03-2009, 11:06 PM
very good situational hitting

hawksd911
06-03-2009, 11:08 PM
no i missed read

iamaj
06-03-2009, 11:08 PM
He has pretty even stats from 2006-2009 in away and home.

That's good. He should even out this year, too. I'd rather have him hit well at home, if he could only do one, considering that the Braves can't win at the Ted.

nps6724
06-03-2009, 11:14 PM
That's good. He should even out this year, too. I'd rather have him hit well at home, if he could only do one, considering that the Braves can't win at the Ted.

McLouth is just having bad luck in away games. His BABIP is below the Mendoza line so once that evens out, he will be fine. He just can't catch a break. His away OBP though is .311 so he's getting on base. If he can come anywhere close to the 76 XBH he had last year, we're going to get a lot better real soon.

robdizzle3
06-03-2009, 11:16 PM
I woke up from sleep about an hour and 30 minutes ago top find that Glavine was released,Hanson called up and we traded for Mclouth.I thought I was dreaming for sure,and I just had to jump out of bed to giv ethat Tiger fist pump.

Maybe it was something to that whole JS and steroids deal.I know that we dont want to believe that he took them,but his performnance has dropped off dramatically and I think being suspended just 50 games wouldnt do all of this to him.Braves need to seriously think about that

NBA_Starter
06-03-2009, 11:17 PM
The only part I don't like is unloading Gorkys, but if Nate can produce anywhere near what he did last season then I will be fine with it!

nps6724
06-03-2009, 11:24 PM
The only part I don't like is unloading Gorkys, but if Nate can produce anywhere near what he did last season then I will be fine with it!

I agree, but with Schafer and Heyward and now McLouth, Gorkys was blocked at every position. He is a lot like Schafer. He's fast, plays good defense, strikes out a lot, and doesn't walk a lot. Gorkys is a better stealer but Jordan has more power. He's too similar to Jordan and Jordan has a higher ceiling and we don't need 2 speedy leadoff hitters who strike out a lot. Gorkys was expendable.

dbroncs-abraves
06-03-2009, 11:31 PM
Absolutely love the trade McLouth is a great player who will make a huge difference for us now the prospects we gave up not too bad i was a huge supporter of all three of the guys but i have to think level headed here and not inflate the prospects because they are just braves players
Morton can be a 3 at best has good stuff but is already like 25 which is still young but has had no success in the majors
Gorkys has the speed that no one else in our system does but his BABIP is really high which has inflated his BA and now that is starting to drop and his power is completely non-existent
Locke was my favorite prospect for some reason i just loved him and he can become a very good pitcher even possibly a 2 starter but he has not produced and has been getting shelled as of late for a couple starts people though he was breaking through into a top spec but then he went off and had a ton of bad starts and hasnt done well since

iesportsfan
06-03-2009, 11:49 PM
So does Blanco and Barton get sent back down with Mclouth and Hanson coming in?

nps6724
06-03-2009, 11:51 PM
I think Blanco goes down. He's a lefty as is McLouth. We don't need another one.

NBA_Starter
06-04-2009, 12:00 AM
Does anyone know how often McLouth strikes out? His strikeout to walk ratio?

nps6724
06-04-2009, 12:02 AM
1.9 KK/B ratio for his career

bravesrule
06-04-2009, 12:10 AM
I guess Pittsburgh decided to kickoff its Annual Talent Yard Sale two months early this year.

NBA_Starter
06-04-2009, 12:15 AM
I guess Pittsburgh decided to kickoff its Annual Talent Yard Sale two months early this year.

And we thank them!:clap:

lavell12
06-04-2009, 12:16 AM
This McClouth move is a great move but with the depth of our system we need to make a move for a RF. Despite his heroics the other night Francoeur has been awful and once again tonight he went to swinging at crap and putting the ball into play softly. With McClouth maybe the Braves consider trading Schafer?

jmtapia
06-04-2009, 12:17 AM
I dont care if hes a RH or LH hitter McClouth comes in with a respectable 9 HR and 34 RBIs... Hes a legitimate 30 HR/100+ RBI and 20+ SB.... lets hope he can stay healthy

lavell12
06-04-2009, 12:19 AM
Blanco and Norton should be sent out for Hanson and McClouth.

bravesrule
06-04-2009, 12:23 AM
Mclouth is 64-69 in the stolen base department since '07

bravesrule
06-04-2009, 12:27 AM
Blanco and Norton should be sent out for Hanson and McClouth.

Hanson is taking Medlen's spot and I'm geussing McClouth is taking Brian Barton's spot

NBA_Starter
06-04-2009, 12:35 AM
Well dang, as excited as I am about Hanson, I wanted to see Medlen get another start too!

A_Brave_Pack
06-04-2009, 12:49 AM
^^All reports indicate that Medlen will stay with the MLB club as a reliever.

bravesrule
06-04-2009, 12:51 AM
Yeah me too.. but we heard FW say that Medlen was just a short term sub and when we brought Hanson up it would be for the long run.. And I don't see Hanson going down anytime soon.

So where does Medlen go? He looks like he is getting pretty close to being ready for the big leagues after his last start, and its not like we're going to have any more room for him next year when Huddy comes back (if we pick up his option and even if we don't we still won't have room for him.) I think we might need to trade Medlen for another bat because even with what McClouth does bring to the table, our offense still isn't stellar.

bravesrule
06-04-2009, 12:53 AM
^^All reports indicate that Medlen will stay with the MLB club as a reliever.

I read from somewhere that Hanson was taking Medlen's spot. Idk where though. I actually wouldn't be against Medlen becoming a reliever.. He has more value as a starter but it is either reliever, being traded, or making our minors look pretty.

NBA_Starter
06-04-2009, 12:54 AM
^^All reports indicate that Medlen will stay with the MLB club as a reliever.

That is good to hear.

jmtapia
06-04-2009, 12:59 AM
personally id rather have Medlen go back to AAA to get his 6-7 IP every 5 days....Medlen has great stuff and should keep going as a starter till he fails...

bravesrule
06-04-2009, 01:01 AM
^With our bullpen's inconsistency, I wouldn't mind seeing him become a reliever. I def see what your saying though..

MattColby
06-04-2009, 01:16 AM
Nicely done ATL. I really like Mclouth.

BRAVE KID
06-04-2009, 01:22 AM
“He’s a baller, dude,” said Braves closer Mike Gonzalez, a former Pittsburgh teammate. “Definitely an upgrade. He changes the whole offense. And he’s not just a hitter — he can go get it in center field. He’s a great guy to have in the clubhouse, too. He’s fluent in Spanish, too. Really smart guy.”http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2009/06/03/braves_trade_mclouth.html

got to love gonzo and his comments.

samanjerry
06-04-2009, 01:54 AM
im as big a braves fan as anyone else here, but i am going to wait and see how this goes. most people thought Tex would be the difference maker and he was anything but. we now have a better chance now with hanson coming up and mclouth but hanson isnt a savior yet and mclouth isnt as good a hitter as tex is. i know our pitching was horrid when tex was here but he wasnt very cluth. i really do hope these moves put an end to our 2-3 runs per games cause we def have the pitching to get into the playoffs. good job Wren!

nps6724
06-04-2009, 01:58 AM
Tex was unstoppable in 2007. I agree he wasn't all that last year, but if our pitching over the past 2 years wasn't horrid, we make the playoffs at least one of them (most likely 2007).

Thibs34
06-04-2009, 02:11 AM
McLouth is Solid. He isn't Tex but he is also isn't a rental. He will be the rock in our outfield for the next few years. He has grit in his game, something I don't think a lot of the Braves players have. This is a great day for the Braves.

Jon93405
06-04-2009, 03:00 AM
The key here is he's controlled for 3 years after this one.

'09 - $2 million
'10 - $4.5 million
'11 - $6.5 million
'12 - $10.65 million (club option)

3 years of extreme affordability, then a club option season at below market rate for a high caliber CF.

As the broadcasters were saying today, when you run down the OFers in the league who you'd want, McClouth is at the top of the list, but you always say, "no way we get him though." Well we got him, and boy was it a good trade.

Thank you Charlie Morton, without your stellar work in AAA, this never would have been possible.

We keep Hanson, Schafer, Freeman, Heyward and get one of the best young OFers in the game at an amazingly affordable contract.

Awesome job Wren.

Career .819 OPS
Gold Glove in CF last season
64/69 in SB's

Improved in BA/OBP/SLG and OPS each season from 2006-2008.

jmtapia
06-04-2009, 03:33 AM
The braves moved from average team to pretty good with this move, they'll win 85 games and miss the playoffs. They still cant compete with the mets and phils. The phils havent got pitching yet and are still in first and half the mets are hurt. All this and the mets and phils are still ahead of the braves! Sorry maybe in 3 years.

...lol

hawkeyefootball
06-04-2009, 03:34 AM
This trade seems like a steal to me, that you guys got a great deal.

Just wondering, do any of you think that the Braves will look to deal Schaffer if their in it at the deadline? Or do you think they'll stick with this outfield now, then shift McClouth to left after the year, and bring Schaffer back up?

robdizzle3
06-04-2009, 03:50 AM
The braves moved from average team to pretty good with this move, they'll win 85 games and miss the playoffs. They still cant compete with the mets and phils. The phils havent got pitching yet and are still in first and half the mets are hurt. All this and the mets and phils are still ahead of the braves! Sorry maybe in 3 years.

We have the better pitching in the division and all we need is one more bat to being complete,while you guys sem to not wanna keep Johan or dont like him very much because you guys make him look bad,even when Beltran and reyes were in the lineup.We will see who gets farther.

jmtapia
06-04-2009, 03:51 AM
^^^definitely keep schafer.... to young to give up on him...plus with Mclouth all of a sudden Schafer has way more time to get ready...

robdizzle3
06-04-2009, 03:55 AM
This trade seems like a steal to me, that you guys got a great deal.

Just wondering, do any of you think that the Braves will look to deal Schaffer if their in it at the deadline? Or do you think they'll stick with this outfield now, then shift McClouth to left after the year, and bring Schaffer back up?

I dont want to believe it,but I think that Jordan's drop of play is due to not taking anymore HGH or steroids.I know that he said he didnt want to speak on it for a while,but he dropped off rightr around the time he was suspended.I understand that he was suspended for 50 games but hje was still able to practice and 50 games wont make you this lousy,because after a while you will start to get it back.Hopefully he learns to get his swing back,but i just dont know

littleknighty
06-04-2009, 07:19 AM
Mclouth brings in good numbers but also gritty hardnose play. He will bring some life to the team.

Spiderman 1nner
06-04-2009, 07:51 AM
The braves moved from average team to pretty good with this move, they'll win 85 games and miss the playoffs. They still cant compete with the mets and phils. The phils havent got pitching yet and are still in first and half the mets are hurt. All this and the mets and phils are still ahead of the braves! Sorry maybe in 3 years.

ok buddy, you come into a braves forum just to knock our team... Our starting pitching is far better than the Mets and the Phillies especially with Tommy Hanson now in our rotation, our bullpen is not that far behind that of the Phillies or the Mets, our fielding is better than the Mets fielding but worse than the Phillies, and all we were missing is an offense, namely production from our outfield, which has now been addressed and the Braves still may get Derosa too. Truth is, the Mets will end up in third unless they get some better starting pitching and it will be between the Braves and Phils for the division. You can use injury as an excuse but only to some extent.

rtgthree
06-04-2009, 07:56 AM
Gorkys has the speed that no one else in our system does but his BABIP is really high

Keep in mind that Gorkys' insane speed will help him maintain a higher-than-average BABIP.


I think Blanco goes down. He's a lefty as is McLouth. We don't need another one.

Agreed. In an ideal world, Norton and Francoeur would not be Braves by Saturday, but I think it's pretty obvious that Blanco and Barton will be punching their return tickets to Gwinnett.


most people thought Tex would be the difference maker and he was anything but.

Except you forget that Teixeira wasn't what the Braves needed in 2007. Many of us recognized that with a back end of the rotation still propped up by the likes of Buddy Carlyle and Jo-Jo Reyes, all the offense in the world wasn't going to change a damn thing. Not that we didn't need Teixeira, but we didn't need Teixeira MOST. We needed pitching most.

This time around, however, McLouth literally fills our single biggest need.

vtgriff09
06-04-2009, 08:54 AM
1. great move on a part of the braves...this move isn't even making waves and headlines, but it is an awesome move. Good move for Pirates as well, they need to stock up on some prospects...Locke, Morton and Gorkys are all great prospects that will help the Pirates in the long run.

2. no way we trade schaeffer.....most MLB players and baseball people say that it takes over 1200 MLB at bats to get used to hitting, and comfortable hitting, at the MLB level. He's well on his way, but with a young OF, there are going to be growing pains.

3. I've been on the trade French bandwagon forever, even when before the season I was saying it (for Greinke....and people on here told me I was stupid for saying that would be a great move for the braves). I see many more people are finding out that last season was not just an abberation, it's a flaw in his mental approach to hitting....not willing to take pitches and work a hitters count, not willing to walk.....if you look at hitters in the MLB by count, avg's go way up when you get to 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-1, 3-0.....when everyone now knows you chase everything (and the only time you were ever good was when no one had enough info on you) then you will always be down in the count and struggle....it doesn't matter if you are the talent of Pujols, consistently hitting behind in the count, and hitting pitchers pitches equals no success. I was the first to say it about Schaeffer at the beginning of the season, struggles on breaking stuff, can't handle anything up in the zone or especially breaking stuff low and in......soon as the book went out on him, he became worthless. He needs to start making adjustments in the minors.

4. I would NOT trade Frenchy now. He's a good OF....he should hit 8 hole for us....he has power capabilities.....heck, if he can't reach base more consistently from the 8 hole.....he'll never have a high OBP or OBPS. You won't get much for Frenchy now that EVERYONE knows that last yr was an abberation....you could have got a lot of suckers before the season (like many on this board who thought that last yr was an abberation), but now that it's obvious he's never going to be a consistent MLB hitter....the market is low...and you won't get someone who gives you that sort of defense in right field

GrkGawdofWalkz
06-04-2009, 09:50 AM
Hernandez is a average hittnig speedster. Considering Jair Jurrjens came with him for Renteria, I'd call him for Renteria a steal still. While I don't think McLouth is a great fielder in center and should be moved to left he's got good bat speed, and power to all fields. He also can steal bases being 7-7 in that area this year so far.

uncblue2332
06-04-2009, 09:53 AM
1. great move on a part of the braves...this move isn't even making waves and headlines, but it is an awesome move. Good move for Pirates as well, they need to stock up on some prospects...Locke, Morton and Gorkys are all great prospects that will help the Pirates in the long run.

2. no way we trade schaeffer.....most MLB players and baseball people say that it takes over 1200 MLB at bats to get used to hitting, and comfortable hitting, at the MLB level. He's well on his way, but with a young OF, there are going to be growing pains.

3. I've been on the trade French bandwagon forever, even when before the season I was saying it (for Greinke....and people on here told me I was stupid for saying that would be a great move for the braves). I see many more people are finding out that last season was not just an abberation, it's a flaw in his mental approach to hitting....not willing to take pitches and work a hitters count, not willing to walk.....if you look at hitters in the MLB by count, avg's go way up when you get to 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-1, 3-0.....when everyone now knows you chase everything (and the only time you were ever good was when no one had enough info on you) then you will always be down in the count and struggle....it doesn't matter if you are the talent of Pujols, consistently hitting behind in the count, and hitting pitchers pitches equals no success. I was the first to say it about Schaeffer at the beginning of the season, struggles on breaking stuff, can't handle anything up in the zone or especially breaking stuff low and in......soon as the book went out on him, he became worthless. He needs to start making adjustments in the minors.

4. I would NOT trade Frenchy now. He's a good OF....he should hit 8 hole for us....he has power capabilities.....heck, if he can't reach base more consistently from the 8 hole.....he'll never have a high OBP or OBPS. You won't get much for Frenchy now that EVERYONE knows that last yr was an abberation....you could have got a lot of suckers before the season (like many on this board who thought that last yr was an abberation), but now that it's obvious he's never going to be a consistent MLB hitter....the market is low...and you won't get someone who gives you that sort of defense in right field

Bogus rumor...never would have happened

Also I think we still need to get rid of frenchy. If we can acquire a bat in another trade maybe like Josh Willingham I see frenchy traded for a crappy bullpen arm or 1 A-ball prospect.

We need to sign Wilson Betemit since he was just DFA'd and send Diory back down

nps6724
06-04-2009, 09:59 AM
What does Betemit offer over Diory? Diory is younger and unproven while Betemit has proven he can't play in the majors.

Saltyfan
06-04-2009, 10:21 AM
All I can say is, WHAT A GREAT DAY FOR THE BRAVES. McClouth will be a great addition. Not to mention what Hanson can do for our pitching rotation.

The best part in my eyes would be allowing Medlen to take over in the bullpen. If he succeeds we can finally get rid of the likes of BENNETT. Who once again blew a game.


I would also like to thank Tom Glavine for the many great years as a brave. He was truely one of a kind. My only wish is he would stay with the braves as a pitching coach/assistant/advisor/something.

uncblue2332
06-04-2009, 10:41 AM
What does Betemit offer over Diory? Diory is younger and unproven while Betemit has proven he can't play in the majors.

Well betemit can play more positions than Diory. Also last time he was in the NL he was pretty darn good. When he went to LA he finished the season with 9 hr for LA and 1o the next before being traded to NYY. Obviously he cant hit in the AL but is a good NL hitter. Not a guy who cant hit as you state. Betemit also hit 9 hr for us in half a season before he was dealt to LA. So 18 hr split between LA/ATL and then 14 for LA/NYY where he hit 10 hr for LA makes him a bad hitter???? RIGHT!!!!! He would cost minimum and would be a versatility guy and an offensive upgrade over diory who is hitting a whopping .148 he has 4 hits in 27 abs 1 2b no hr or rbi and 6 so compared to 1 walk. I would say betemit would be an upgrade

phillipwmarsh
06-04-2009, 10:46 AM
i need to see the potential lineup tonight.

McClouth
Escobar
Jones
McCann
Anderson
Frenchy
Prado
Johnson

What is the lineup going to be tonight?

uncblue2332
06-04-2009, 10:49 AM
i need to see the potential lineup tonight.

McClouth
Escobar
Jones
McCann
Anderson
Frenchy
Prado
Johnson

What is the lineup going to be tonight?

McLouth has too much power to hit first. We will stick with kelly and go

1. KJ
2. Yunel
3. CHipp
4. McLouth
5.B-Mac
6. GA
7. Frenchy
8. Prado-1b (when Kotch gets back he will move to 7th and frenchy will go to 8th
9. Pitcher

nps6724
06-04-2009, 10:52 AM
Well betemit can play more positions than Diory. Also last time he was in the NL he was pretty darn good. When he went to LA he finished the season with 9 hr for LA and 1o the next before being traded to NYY. Obviously he cant hit in the AL but is a good NL hitter. Not a guy who cant hit as you state. Betemit also hit 9 hr for us in half a season before he was dealt to LA. So 18 hr split between LA/ATL and then 14 for LA/NYY where he hit 10 hr for LA makes him a bad hitter???? RIGHT!!!!! He would cost minimum and would be a versatility guy and an offensive upgrade over diory who is hitting a whopping .148 he has 4 hits in 27 abs 1 2b no hr or rbi and 6 so compared to 1 walk. I would say betemit would be an upgrade

Yes, when all he can do is hit a marginal number of HRs, he's a bad hitter. Otherwise he wouldn't be DFA'd at 27 years old. He's an offensive upgrade over a 25-year old rookie who is only up due to injury. Think about that.

Betemit can't play SS. Prado can't play SS. Diory is here to backup Esco. The fact he can also play 3rd is a bonus.

uncblue2332
06-04-2009, 11:15 AM
Yes, when all he can do is hit a marginal number of HRs, he's a bad hitter. Otherwise he wouldn't be DFA'd at 27 years old. He's an offensive upgrade over a 25-year old rookie who is only up due to injury. Think about that.

Betemit can't play SS. Prado can't play SS. Diory is here to backup Esco. The fact he can also play 3rd is a bonus.

Betemit came up as a SS but we moved him to 3b and for the record he still plays SS when he doesnt play 3b he splits time between 1st and SS. SO for the record he can play SS, plays 3b, 1b. The fact he can play every position and 1 more than Diory can, he adds offensive power, and knows how the organization is with prior experience leads to every sign that he is an upgrade over diory and should be signed since it is only vets minimum of 400,000. come on look up Betemits numbers then you would see he can play SS

Braves_Fan_RSD
06-04-2009, 11:37 AM
McLouth has too much power to hit first. We will stick with kelly and go

1. KJ
2. Yunel
3. CHipp
4. McLouth
5.B-Mac
6. GA
7. Frenchy
8. Prado-1b (when Kotch gets back he will move to 7th and frenchy will go to 8th
9. Pitcher

Don't sound so definitive when you give your opinion, just last night during the game Wren did an interview and he said "hopefully Bobby has the TRUE leadoff hitter he has missed since Furcal, If he chooses to use him that way" So it would not shock me at all to see him leading off.


Yes, when all he can do is hit a marginal number of HRs, he's a bad hitter. Otherwise he wouldn't be DFA'd at 27 years old. He's an offensive upgrade over a 25-year old rookie who is only up due to injury. Think about that.

Betemit can't play SS. Prado can't play SS. Diory is here to backup Esco. The fact he can also play 3rd is a bonus.

Betemit can play SS in fact he is listed as a SS on ESPN MLB.com and every fantasy league I see, also other than 1B his best UZR is at SS with a -1.5.


Betemit came up as a SS but we moved him to 3b and for the record he still plays SS when he doesnt play 3b he splits time between 1st and SS. SO for the record he can play SS, plays 3b, 1b. The fact he can play every position and 1 more than Diory can, he adds offensive power, and knows how the organization is with prior experience leads to every sign that he is an upgrade over diory and should be signed since it is only vets minimum of 400,000. come on look up Betemits numbers then you would see he can play SS

Ther only issue I see with bringing in Betemit is as soon as Infante is better he will be DFA'd again and I don't think he will sign with the Braves knowing this reality, I wouldn't knowing I could have beter options elsewhere.

nps6724
06-04-2009, 11:39 AM
Betemit can play SS in fact he is listed as a SS on ESPN MLB.com and every fantasy league I see, also other than 1B his best UZR is at SS with a -1.5.

See the below stats. And FWIW, he has 243 career games at 3B, only 79 at SS.

*Edit: Forgot I hadn't posted it yet.

uncblue2332
06-04-2009, 11:43 AM
See the above stats. And FWIW, he has 243 career games at 3B, only 79 at SS.

what stats are you talking about because the only ones there are me and braves fan showing you that betemit can play SS and is good. Just because he spends more time at 3b then SS doesnt make him bad defesively. He has enough games logged to get a feel for the defense he provides and if you want to talk about experience and playing a position how about matt diaz playin CF for the first time since AA ball. Or Omar Infante having a career total of 4 games in CF before the season started, or how GA hasnt played the field much in his recent years until he moved in to ATL.

nps6724
06-04-2009, 11:43 AM
Betemit came up as a SS but we moved him to 3b and for the record he still plays SS when he doesnt play 3b he splits time between 1st and SS. SO for the record he can play SS, plays 3b, 1b. The fact he can play every position and 1 more than Diory can, he adds offensive power, and knows how the organization is with prior experience leads to every sign that he is an upgrade over diory and should be signed since it is only vets minimum of 400,000. come on look up Betemits numbers then you would see he can play SS

Chipper came up as a SS too, but I wouldn't want him playing there. And yes, Betemit can play SS in the same way anyone with a functioning body could play there. If you put me at SS, you could also claim I "play" SS. Anyone can play anywhere; I worry about the quality of that play.

The fact is he's just not very good defensively. For his career, Betemit is -7.4 in UZR at SS and -12.2 at 3B. He doesn't have range at either position (-5.1 and -8.0 RngR at each). His UZR/150 at SS is -23.7, which means he would play 23.7 runs below average in 150 games at SS. There's only 1 ML SS with a worse one (Betancourt for Seattle). That means he's really bad at SS.

nps6724
06-04-2009, 11:47 AM
what stats are you talking about because the only ones there are me and braves fan showing you that betemit can play SS and is good. Just because he spends more time at 3b then SS doesnt make him bad defesively. He has enough games logged to get a feel for the defense he provides and if you want to talk about experience and playing a position how about matt diaz playin CF for the first time since AA ball. Or Omar Infante having a career total of 4 games in CF before the season started, or how GA hasnt played the field much in his recent years until he moved in to ATL.

I forgot to submit the stats I was referring to. They are below your post. They show Betemit to be a pretty poor SS AND 3B.

What do Diaz, Infante, or GA have to do with anything? A) They offer much more offensively than Betemit, and B) Diaz and Infante played CF as an emergency and is not either guy's primary backup position. GA played 82 games in LF last year, 85 games in 2007, 94 in 2006, 106 in 2005, ...

uncblue2332
06-04-2009, 11:53 AM
Chipper came up as a SS too, but I wouldn't want him playing there. And yes, Betemit can play SS in the same way anyone with a functioning body could play there. If you put me at SS, you could also claim I "play" SS. Anyone can play anywhere; I worry about the quality of that play.

The fact is he's just not very good defensively. For his career, Betemit is -7.4 in UZR at SS and -12.2 at 3B. He doesn't have range at either position (-5.1 and -8.0 RngR at each). His UZR/150 at SS is -23.7, which means he would play 23.7 runs below average in 150 games at SS. There's only 1 ML SS with a worse one (Betancourt for Seattle). That means he's really bad at SS.

He wont be playing 150 games. He will come off the bench and spot start so look at his UZR when playing

2004 Braves UZR -2 in 11 games
2005 Braves UZR -2.5 in 25 games
2006 braves UZR -3.3 in 18 games
2007 dodgers/yankees UZR -0.1 in 10 games
2008 Yankees UZR +0.5 in 14 games

Obviously he isnt a wizard but he wont be fielding everyday and he provides offensive power

Omar Infante had -57.1 UZR/150 for the tigers in 2007. Its just a bad stat cause they arent playing ther full time and are put in there for other reasons then defense alone

nps6724
06-04-2009, 11:55 AM
But Infante has shown to be a better hitter. Betemit isn't a defensive stud nor is he an offensive stud. He's below average at both.

uncblue2332
06-04-2009, 11:56 AM
I forgot to submit the stats I was referring to. They are below your post. They show Betemit to be a pretty poor SS AND 3B.

What do Diaz, Infante, or GA have to do with anything? A) They offer much more offensively than Betemit, and B) Diaz and Infante played CF as an emergency and is not either guy's primary backup position. GA played 82 games in LF last year, 85 games in 2007, 94 in 2006, 106 in 2005, ...

you were talking about betemits experince at SS and I mentioned that experience isnt everything to the braves organization look at who we have playing with diaz playing CF for the first time since AA infante having 4 career games in CF before the season and having GA play in LF almost full time when he hasnt played 100 games in the field since 2005

nps6724
06-04-2009, 11:57 AM
you were talking about betemits experince at SS and I mentioned that experience isnt everything to the braves organization look at who we have playing with diaz playing CF for the first time since AA infante having 4 career games in CF before the season and having GA play in LF almost full time when he hasnt played 100 games in the field since 2005

But you fail to understand that Infante and Diaz were used in those spots as an emergency and both play other positions primarily. Betemit would primarily backup SS.

bigmj
06-04-2009, 12:01 PM
Hopefully this will lead to Frenchy moving on in the offseason.

That would be a dream come true :D

uncblue2332
06-04-2009, 12:02 PM
But you fail to understand that Infante and Diaz were used in those spots as an emergency and both play other positions primarily. Betemit would primarily backup SS.

betemit would be primarily a backup 3b and playing SS but what you fail to understand is that infate was our backup CF all year long we were going to go with him. Yunel doesnt need that many days off. The man did play 136 games last year if betemit plays 20 of those 36 games yunel didnt play im fine with that. Diaz was an emergency but Infante and GA werent and Atlanta's organization seemed fine with that and bobby liked it too

nps6724
06-04-2009, 12:06 PM
Esco has had injury problems the last 2 years where he has to miss multiple consecutive games. If that happened again, Betemit would be playing everyday for 4-5 games. No thank you. If it was for 1 game every 3 weeks, then whatever. But with Esco, that's not the case. At least until he goes a season without a goofy injury causing him to miss a week. GA and Infante and Diaz are all much better hitters than Betemit, which makes the risk of them playing out of position worthwhile. Betemit is below average in every phase of the game. He's slightly better than Diory, who isn't exactly a stud prospect. If Betemit wasn't a former Brave, you wouldn't know his name or want him signed. If Betemit was worth anything, he would've been traded, not DFA'd.

uncblue2332
06-04-2009, 12:11 PM
Esco has had injury problems the last 2 years where he has to miss multiple consecutive games. If that happened again, Betemit would be playing everyday for 4-5 games. No thank you. If it was for 1 game every 3 weeks, then whatever. But with Esco, that's not the case. At least until he goes a season without a goofy injury causing him to miss a week. GA and Infante and Diaz are all much better hitters than Betemit, which makes the risk of them playing out of position worthwhile. Betemit is below average in every phase of the game. He's slightly better than Diory, who isn't exactly a stud prospect. If Betemit wasn't a former Brave, you wouldn't know his name or want him signed. If Betemit was worth anything, he would've been traded, not DFA'd.

Betemit cant hit in the AL just like Edgar Renteria. We all know there are some players like that and thats why he was DFA'd. Also I could have Betemit play for 4-5 days at SS knowing he can provide decent defense and as weve seen he has good pop. More than Diaz. The man hit 9 homeruns in atl then in LA giving him 18 hr in 2006 and in 2007 in half a season with LA he hit ten then went to the AL where he cant hit and still put up 4 more HR eclipsing diaz's career mark of 12 twice. He is as good if not slighty better than Diaz. And if diaz wasnt a brave you would know about him or want to sign him. Betemit btings many things to the table I dont know why your in such arms about decent defense, more pop off the bench, and a $400,000 salary

nps6724
06-04-2009, 12:24 PM
Betemit cant hit in the AL just like Edgar Renteria. We all know there are some players like that and thats why he was DFA'd. Also I could have Betemit play for 4-5 days at SS knowing he can provide decent defense and as weve seen he has good pop. More than Diaz. The man hit 9 homeruns in atl then in LA giving him 18 hr in 2006 and in 2007 in half a season with LA he hit ten then went to the AL where he cant hit and still put up 4 more HR eclipsing diaz's career mark of 12 twice. He is as good if not slighty better than Diaz. And if diaz wasnt a brave you would know about him or want to sign him. Betemit btings many things to the table I dont know why your in such arms about decent defense, more pop off the bench, and a $400,000 salary

Because he DOESN'T play decent defense and he can't do anything except hit for marginal power. I'm not a huge fan of Diaz, but he at least crushes lefties. Betemit does NOTHING well. Let's not forget Diaz already has a spot on the roster so he isn't costing us anything extra. Greg Norton averages a HR every 26.5 AB, Betemit 27.2. And their career BA/OBP/SLG are extremely similar and both switch-hit. Picking up Betemit is like getting another Norton but with a 2.89 K/BB ratio instead of 1.9. Does anyone want that?

Pursuing Betemit is just like pursuing Lastings Milledge. It's a marginal upgrade and adds a player who is a carbon copy of someone you already have and want to get rid of.

uncblue2332
06-04-2009, 12:32 PM
Because he DOESN'T play decent defense and he can't do anything except hit for marginal power. I'm not a huge fan of Diaz, but he at least crushes lefties. Betemit does NOTHING well. Let's not forget Diaz already has a spot on the roster so he isn't costing us anything extra. Greg Norton averages a HR every 26.5 AB, Betemit 27.2. And their career BA/OBP/SLG are extremely similar and both switch-hit. Picking up Betemit is like getting another Norton but with a 2.89 K/BB ratio instead of 1.9. Does anyone want that?

Pursuing Betemit is just like pursuing Lastings Milledge. It's a marginal upgrade and adds a player who is a carbon copy of someone you already have and want to get rid of.

except for the fact norton doesnt play the field, betemit play decent defense because he plays decent defense becuase he is efective in a small number of games, he isnt an everday player. Also once again Betemit h=cant hit in the AL so the NL will bring power numbers back so he isnt a carbon copy of norton considering he does play the field and is decent in defense and provides a need being a backup 3b, ss, 1b so we can send diory back to AAA where he belongs. Im done arguing with you because you wont listen and know betemit wouldnt cost anything, provide us with offense (which trumps defense 3 times because of our offfensive woes) and he provides us in that he fills a need. SIGN BETEMIT FRANK

nps6724
06-04-2009, 12:34 PM
You apparently think a negative UZR and hitting like Norton is good. Thank God you aren't in control of anything.

Jon93405
06-04-2009, 12:44 PM
I would have no problem bringing back Betemit if that meant Norton got DFA'd.

nps6724
06-04-2009, 12:45 PM
I would have no problem bringing back Betemit if that meant Norton got DFA'd.

Now THAT I'll agree with. One Norton is enough. If Betemit replaced him, I'd be okay with it.

VCU4LIFEGOVIKS
06-04-2009, 02:12 PM
I love this move. The guy is solid in every category.

rtgthree
06-04-2009, 02:20 PM
We need to sign Wilson Betemit since he was just DFA'd and send Diory back down

I sort of can't believe you guys just had a two-page discussion about a player as meaningless as Wilson Betemit, but I can put an end to it right now. He can't hit, and he's no good with the glove either. Besides the UZR numbers, the scouting reports that I've read agree that Betemit isn't much of a fielder anywhere. And the idea that a guy can be an "NL hitter" but not an "AL hitter" is pretty ridiculous. The difference between leagues isn't THAT great that a guy goes from solid to sucking by moving from NL to AL. Not even close to worth the Braves' while.

uncblue2332
06-04-2009, 02:32 PM
I sort of can't believe you guys just had a two-page discussion about a player as meaningless as Wilson Betemit, but I can put an end to it right now. He can't hit, and he's no good with the glove either. Besides the UZR numbers, the scouting reports that I've read agree that Betemit isn't much of a fielder anywhere. And the idea that a guy can be an "NL hitter" but not an "AL hitter" is pretty ridiculous. The difference between leagues isn't THAT great that a guy goes from solid to sucking by moving from NL to AL. Not even close to worth the Braves' while.

Tell that to edgar renteria both stints he had were like that

rtgthree
06-04-2009, 02:43 PM
Tell that to edgar renteria both stints he had were like that

OK, so the fact that Edgar Renteria performed poorly in the AL is proof that you can be an "NL hitter" but not an "AL hitter"? Maybe you haven't noticed what he's hitting this year, in the NL, but it's pretty obvious that 2007 was the beginning of a decline that is taking place because he's old, not because he's playing in the AL. His 2005 season is one season, and it's actually scarily similar to the 2004 season, which he played in the NL. Renteria's performance is just the random variance inherent in a player's career.

marlon641
06-04-2009, 02:44 PM
Mclouth is 64-69 in the stolen base department since '07

That. is. awesome. I was so excited listening to the game last night and getting the scoop. I didn't even notice we lost the game :) :) McLouth is a great addition, and hopefully we will contend THIS year!

thewupk
06-04-2009, 02:45 PM
Tell that to edgar renteria both stints he had were like that

Edgar hit 276 with a 721 OPS in Boston. He's a career 289 hitter with a 751 OPS. The year before in St Louis he hit 287 with a 728 OPS. So no, Edgar didn't drop off in Boston offensively. He did suck last year in Detroit. But he's also sucking right now in San Fran. Looks like he just got old and his skills are gone now.

serGeant
06-05-2009, 12:50 AM
I love it. McLouth brings everything the Braves need...a power bat, speed, and defense. He is cheap and controllable for several years and, while we gave up a lot on the surface, in reality the pieces given up make sense. Gorkys will likely be blocked by Schafer, Locke has not been that impressive lately, and Morton does not have a spot in the rotation with Hanson coming up this week

HCo HERO
06-05-2009, 01:17 AM
Should we still use his original nickname Nate "the Great" McClouth?

IMO I think we should come up with a new nickname.

I nominate: "The Colossus" of McClouth (Sandlot reference)

bigboyblu
06-05-2009, 02:03 AM
Awesome pick up for you guys former allstar, cheap, and still getting better.

Born a Brave
06-05-2009, 02:50 AM
Only bad thing was that McLouth's debut was pushed back a day due to rain.... Oh well. Suppose I can wait another day....

noname part5
06-05-2009, 05:31 AM
It does suck that we sent Barton back to the minors to clear a spot for McClouth, I would have preferred sending Blanco back down.

rtgthree
06-05-2009, 02:43 PM
It does suck that we sent Barton back to the minors to clear a spot for McClouth, I would have preferred sending Blanco back down.

I don't think it really matters. Blanco's probably on his way back to the minors when Tommy Hanson gets the call on Saturday. Personally, I think both Blanco and Barton are major-league caliber outfielders. Not starters, but solid bench guys.

Born a Brave
06-10-2009, 06:19 PM
Hey guys. I did an article on a breakdown of our trade for McLouth. Hope you all enjoy it! http://www.atlantabravesnews.com/bornabrave/weblog/7566/braves-acquire-nate-mclouth.html