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View Full Version : Why do people credit Houston's 22 games winnings streak to Tmac?



FOBolous
06-01-2009, 10:11 PM
Why? I don't get it. He has nothing to do with it. Here's the timeline of what happened that year:

1. The Rockets started out the season struggling. Tmac was the initiator of Houston's offense. Rafer would bring the ball up, and once he passes the half court line, he'll give the ball to Tmac. Tmac would that decides on what he wants to do while all of Houston's players will stand at the 3 pts line waiting for Tmac to pass the ball to them.

2. Tmac gets injured. Yao became the initiator of Houston's offense. Houston's ball movement improved without Tmac in a Yao centric offense. Houston starts to roll. During the time that Tmac was injured...Houston was 8-3 as oppose to 13-15 earlier in the season when Tmac was the initiator of the offense.

3. Members of the media and the fans openly worry about the effect Tmac's return will have on Houston's newly found chemistry that was gained during the time he was injured. People worry if Houston's going to be able to maintain the ball movement they achieved in a Yao centric offense when Tmac comes back or if Houston's going to go back to the Tmac initiated offense Houston played before he got injured. In harsher words...people worry if Tmac is going to be a ball hog after he comes back or if he's going to play as part of the team.

4. Everyone breathed a collective sigh of relieve after Tmac cameback and Houston didn't go back to a Tmac initiated offense they played before Tmac was injured.

5. Houston discovered Yao's injury after the 12th game of the winning streak

6. Houston continued their winning streak without Yao but they never went back to the Tmac initiated offense they played before Tmac was injured. Houston's role players gained confidence in themselves when Yao led the team and they confidence didn't waver after Yao got injured. Houston continued to play TEAM basketball with a lot of ball movement while staying away from a Tmac initiated offense until Houston reached the playoffs.

GregOden#1
06-01-2009, 10:24 PM
Clearly it is because they are racist and hate Yao Ming.

KeithLBC
06-01-2009, 10:29 PM
because the rest of the players are a bunch of scrubs :shrug:

JordansBulls
06-02-2009, 12:13 AM
Why? I don't get it. He has nothing to do with it. Here's the timeline of what happened that year:

1. The Rockets started out the season struggling. Tmac was the initiator of Houston's offense. Rafer would bring the ball up, and once he passes the half court line, he'll give the ball to Tmac. Tmac would that decides on what he wants to do while all of Houston's players will stand at the 3 pts line waiting for Tmac to pass the ball to them.

2. Tmac gets injured. Yao became the initiator of Houston's offense. Houston's ball movement improved without Tmac in a Yao centric offense. Houston starts to roll. During the time that Tmac was injured...Houston was 8-3 as oppose to 13-15 earlier in the season when Tmac was the initiator of the offense.

3. Members of the media and the fans openly worry about the effect Tmac's return will have on Houston's newly found chemistry that was gained during the time he was injured. People worry if Houston's going to be able to maintain the ball movement they achieved in a Yao centric offense when Tmac comes back or if Houston's going to go back to the Tmac initiated offense Houston played before he got injured. In harsher words...people worry if Tmac is going to be a ball hog after he comes back or if he's going to play as part of the team.

4. Everyone breathed a collective sigh of relieve after Tmac cameback and Houston didn't go back to a Tmac initiated offense they played before Tmac was injured.

5. Houston discovered Yao's injury after the 12th game of the winning streak

6. Houston continued their winning streak without Yao but they never went back to the Tmac initiated offense they played before Tmac was injured. Houston's role players gained confidence in themselves when Yao led the team and they confidence didn't waver after Yao got injured. Houston continued to play TEAM basketball with a lot of ball movement while staying away from a Tmac initiated offense until Houston reached the playoffs.


I don't think most give him credit for that streak.

Chronz
06-02-2009, 01:39 AM
I don't think most give him credit for that streak.
They do, its how he made an All-NBA team and even a few MVP votes because of it. Despite the fact that he had a horrible year

As for the thread topic, he got too much hype but things arent as simplistic as you want to make it seem.

marlinsfan24
06-02-2009, 09:55 AM
Why do you guys hate on T-Mac so much?

Look at his stats during that streak
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3179/gamelog;_ylt=Ak4u_deouAl8omX0nptJ.J8tPKB4?year=200 7

And his stats that season,
66 37:00 8.3 19.8 41.9 1.3 4.5 29.2 3.7 5.4 68.4 0.6 4.5 5.1 5.9 2.4 1.0 0.5 1.4 21.6

I don't get how he didnt help his team?

siralex
06-02-2009, 10:07 AM
Why do you guys hate on T-Mac so much?


typical of rockets fans. its been going on all year now, although some of these rockets "fans" will tell you that they ALWAYS hated tmac, rofl. what a joke.

its really pretty simple... was it all tmac?

no.

could it have happened without tmac?

of course not.

so, to sum up, in case anybody has reading comprehension issues:

can tmac be credited, by himself? no. could the rockets win 22 games in a row without him? no.

anybody who thinks they would have won 22 games straight without him simply dont know basketball. period.

siralex
06-02-2009, 10:13 AM
think about it:

rockets "fans" have managed to destroy tmac on all fronts this season (yeah im going to fake micro fracture and shoulder surgery to get paid, idiots.).

and now that they have run out of loosely justifiable reasons to hate him this season, they go back in time, two years, and try to discredit his obvious contributions to one of the greatest single season runs in nba history.

thing is, your opinion is absolutely irrelevant. i mean, it matters to you, and god bless america, but its irrelevant.

get your misdirected hostility out of some of the best rockets memories that i have had in recent years.

i just dont understand you people anymore.

Ballah0liC1
06-02-2009, 01:33 PM
think about it:

rockets "fans" have managed to destroy tmac on all fronts this season (yeah im going to fake micro fracture and shoulder surgery to get paid, idiots.).

and now that they have run out of loosely justifiable reasons to hate him this season, they go back in time, two years, and try to discredit his obvious contributions to one of the greatest single season runs in nba history.

thing is, your opinion is absolutely irrelevant. i mean, it matters to you, and god bless america, but its irrelevant.

get your misdirected hostility out of some of the best rockets memories that i have had in recent years.

i just dont understand you people anymore.
im a rockets fan and i have not done that **** ,but yes i know what your talking about

superkegger
06-02-2009, 03:07 PM
Why? I don't get it. He has nothing to do with it.



This is the statement I have trouble with. The rest makes sense, because he certainly had something to do with it.


21.6 ppg 5.23 rpg 5.95 apg over that 22 game stretch. Which is pretty much his season average for that year. He clearly had something to do with it. Perhaps you were just being hyperbolic, but still, he certainly played a role and an important one at that, in that win streak.

FOBolous
06-02-2009, 04:29 PM
This is the statement I have trouble with. The rest makes sense, because he certainly had something to do with it.


21.6 ppg 5.23 rpg 5.95 apg over that 22 game stretch. Which is pretty much his season average for that year. He clearly had something to do with it. Perhaps you were just being hyperbolic, but still, he certainly played a role and an important one at that, in that win streak.

ok...maybe i exaggerated a little but he doesn't deserved all the credit he gets for the streak. It is my honest opinion that Houston wouldn't never went on that streak if Tmac never got injured. If he never got injured...Houston would've kept on playing the Tmac initiated offense they played at the beginning of that season and Houston would've kept struggling. Our role players would've never gotten the chance to show how good they are as they did after he was injured.

superkegger
06-02-2009, 04:41 PM
ok...maybe i exaggerated a little but he doesn't deserved all the credit he gets for the streak. It is my honest opinion that Houston wouldn't never went on that streak if Tmac never got injured. If he never got injured...Houston would've kept on playing the Tmac initiated offense they played at the beginning of that season and Houston would've kept struggling. Our role players would've never gotten the chance to show how good they are as they did after he was injured.

That, I can hang with.

But I didn't know he got that much credit for the streak. I mean, whenever a team wins 22 in a row, it's clearly a team effort more than it is a player carrying the team.

Chronz
06-02-2009, 04:42 PM
It did force them to stop relying on Tmac, but if he had never gotten injured (then you have to go way back before he got hurt when they were 6-1 or whatever). Tmac was ballin at that time. The team got used to his domination and slacked off, when they shouldve been playing off him. Remember before the season Adelman said it usually takes 2-3 years for his players to understand the system, and that he wouldnt try to instill it fully until he had his core group. Well its happened and its why youve seen them have a relative amount of success without Yao in the playoffs.

The notion that they wouldve kept to JVG's offense even with the season progressing isnt very credible.

Chronz
06-02-2009, 04:43 PM
That, I can hang with.

But I didn't know he got that much credit for the streak. I mean, whenever a team wins 22 in a row, it's clearly a team effort more than it is a player carrying the team.
Ive followed the Rockets and Adelman extensively the past decade, while what FOB said has some truth to it, its far from being that simple.

Verbal Christ
06-02-2009, 04:45 PM
yawwwn, why even bring up something that happened over a year ago?

Chronz
06-02-2009, 04:49 PM
yawwwn, why even bring up something that happened over a year ago?

Cuz Tmac homers still bring it up like its a miraculous achievement when just about any star SG that year couldve replicated that success, I LOVE examples of the NBA failing in their award selections, Tmac last year was a perfect case.

And its Rockets related, who cares when it happened. I know you want to forget Tmac as soon as possible, but dont act like he was never there.

FOBolous
06-02-2009, 04:51 PM
It did force them to stop relying on Tmac, but if he had never gotten injured (then you have to go way back before he got hurt when they were 6-1 or whatever). Tmac was ballin at that time. The team got used to his domination and slacked off, when they shouldve been playing off him. Remember before the season Adelman said it usually takes 2-3 years for his players to understand the system, and that he wouldnt try to instill it fully until he had his core group. Well its happened and its why youve seen them have a relative amount of success without Yao in the playoffs.

The notion that they wouldve kept to JVG's offense even with the season progressing isnt very credible.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Yao dominating that season also? He was actually being considered for the MVP award before Houston discovered his injury after the 12th game of the streak. It's funny how our role players doesn't slack off with Yao leading the team but they have the tendancy to slack off and stand around when Tmac is leading the team.

superkegger
06-02-2009, 04:54 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Yao dominating that season also? He was actually being considered for the MVP award before Houston discovered his injury after the 12th game of the streak. It's funny how our role players doesn't slack off with Yao leading the team but they have the tendancy to slack off and stand around when Tmac is leading the team.

My guess for that would be, is because it's much easier for a guard/wing type to dominate the ball. Tmac creates for himself and others. Yao can't do that. I mean, he can pass out of the post and stuff, but he has to go get position and then have someone get him the ball, and from there he can do something. Just kind of the nature of positions more than anything IMO.

superkegger
06-02-2009, 04:55 PM
yawwwn, why even bring up something that happened over a year ago?

because it's better than talking about where lebron will go, where Ai will go, or who should have gone where in the 2003 draft, or pick your topic for what gets a new thread created on it every week and is just old.

Chronz
06-02-2009, 04:58 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Yao dominating that season also? He was actually being considered for the MVP award before Houston discovered his injury after the 12th game of the streak. It's funny how our role players doesn't slack off with Yao leading the team but they have the tendancy to slack off and stand around when Tmac is leading the team.
No your totally correct, I just fail to see the relevance....

The spectacle of watching Tmac at peak form is why they slacked off, to get Yao dominating takes much more effort, getting Yao the ball alone is MUCH more difficult than letting Tmac bring the ball up, he plays practically effortless when hes healthy. Thats not fully on Tmac, when Tmac came back during the streak he was still playing his game, they just werent watching him anymore.

Who are you to say that the transition wouldnt have happened later in the season with a healthier Tmac? I seem to recall this playing out just about every year in Houston. The fact that it was the beginning of a shift in coaching philosophy only strengthens my point.

FOBolous
06-02-2009, 04:58 PM
Cuz Tmac homers still bring it up like its a miraculous achievement when just about any star SG that year couldve replicated that success, I LOVE examples of the NBA failing in their award selections, Tmac last year was a perfect case.

And its Rockets related, who cares when it happened. I know you want to forget Tmac as soon as possible, but dont act like he was never there.

:clap:

Chronz
06-02-2009, 04:59 PM
My guess for that would be, is because it's much easier for a guard/wing type to dominate the ball. Tmac creates for himself and others. Yao can't do that. I mean, he can pass out of the post and stuff, but he has to go get position and then have someone get him the ball, and from there he can do something. Just kind of the nature of positions more than anything IMO.

Precisely, but its not like they arent professionals, eventually they wake up and realize Tmac isnt Kobe, he cant play godly every game.

AirJordan23
06-02-2009, 05:02 PM
because it's better than talking about where lebron will go, where Ai will go, or who should have gone where in the 2003 draft, or pick your topic for what gets a new thread created on it every week and is just old.

Main reason why I don't post in the NBA forum.

theuuord
06-02-2009, 05:03 PM
For the same reason Pierce got the Finals MVP award. Because he was a star player who deserved a lot of the credit, and because he was there for a long time before it.

Verbal Christ
06-02-2009, 05:23 PM
tmac homers? hmmm by tone alone it sure seems the thread creator is far from a tmac homer. speaking of chron arent/werent you one of those lambasting anyone for banging on mac? curiously intriguing to see the lines in the sand shift by the slightest breeze. sure tmac came, he saw, he conqu... ahem he played really good when he wasnt hurt.

siralex
06-02-2009, 05:35 PM
Cuz Tmac homers still bring it up like its a miraculous achievement when just about any star SG that year couldve replicated that success, I LOVE examples of the NBA failing in their award selections, Tmac last year was a perfect case.

And its Rockets related, who cares when it happened. I know you want to forget Tmac as soon as possible, but dont act like he was never there.


sorry cronz. typically i agree with you on certain issues, but this post was put up by a tmac hater. i just went back and looked at a bunch of the rockets forums, and there is a minimum, if any, threads that credit him for the streak.

if you look back, tmac fans only come out when tmac haters hash up things from the past that are irrelevant now.

so to sum up:

this post was started by a tmac hater, not a tmac fan. which means its the tmac haters that keep bringing this up.

siralex
06-02-2009, 05:36 PM
tmac homers? hmmm by tone alone it sure seems the thread creator is far from a tmac homer.


this.

and i know it hurts you to "defend" tmac in any shape or form, so that took some class to admit, verbal.

Verbal Christ
06-02-2009, 05:37 PM
yup tmac is the devil

Chronz
06-02-2009, 06:18 PM
sorry cronz. typically i agree with you on certain issues, but this post was put up by a tmac hater. i just went back and looked at a bunch of the rockets forums, and there is a minimum, if any, threads that credit him for the streak.

if you look back, tmac fans only come out when tmac haters hash up things from the past that are irrelevant now.

so to sum up:

this post was started by a tmac hater, not a tmac fan. which means its the tmac haters that keep bringing this up.
Oh believe me, Im well aware of his hatred for Tmac, that doesnt mean he doesnt have a point about certain issues. Yea and you do have a point, Rocket fans are genuinely more informative about their players than most fanbases. But there are still those who believe he was worthy of the praise the NBA gave him, thats going to far.













tmac homers? hmmm by tone alone it sure seems the thread creator is far from a tmac homer. speaking of chron arent/werent you one of those lambasting anyone for banging on mac? curiously intriguing to see the lines in the sand shift by the slightest breeze. sure tmac came, he saw, he conqu... ahem he played really good when he wasnt hurt.
No he brought it up in response to those homers. And dont mistake this for banging, Tmac for his career is probably the most unappreciated great performers, the hate surrounding his game is astonishing. From the belief that even in his prime his numbers were bloated and inefficient is the ultimate sign of ignorance. Thats the part I really defend, but when he truly gets too much praise in the decline phase of his career I cant help but agree. The #'s dont lie, they said they shouldve gotten Billups, but Morey held a firm belief in Tmacs ability to perform in the playoffs, which is another aspect of his career that gets hated on regularly. Those are issues I target, not these petty truths. Which FOB knows it is, as much as he wants to downplay Tmac's career and proclaim himself the wizard who foresaw it all.

t-mac1nukka
06-02-2009, 08:01 PM
Why? I don't get it. He has nothing to do with it. Here's the timeline of what happened that year:

1. The Rockets started out the season struggling. Tmac was the initiator of Houston's offense. Rafer would bring the ball up, and once he passes the half court line, he'll give the ball to Tmac. Tmac would that decides on what he wants to do while all of Houston's players will stand at the 3 pts line waiting for Tmac to pass the ball to them.

2. Tmac gets injured. Yao became the initiator of Houston's offense. Houston's ball movement improved without Tmac in a Yao centric offense. Houston starts to roll. During the time that Tmac was injured...Houston was 8-3 as oppose to 13-15 earlier in the season when Tmac was the initiator of the offense.

3. Members of the media and the fans openly worry about the effect Tmac's return will have on Houston's newly found chemistry that was gained during the time he was injured. People worry if Houston's going to be able to maintain the ball movement they achieved in a Yao centric offense when Tmac comes back or if Houston's going to go back to the Tmac initiated offense Houston played before he got injured. In harsher words...people worry if Tmac is going to be a ball hog after he comes back or if he's going to play as part of the team.

4. Everyone breathed a collective sigh of relieve after Tmac cameback and Houston didn't go back to a Tmac initiated offense they played before Tmac was injured.

5. Houston discovered Yao's injury after the 12th game of the winning streak

6. Houston continued their winning streak without Yao but they never went back to the Tmac initiated offense they played before Tmac was injured. Houston's role players gained confidence in themselves when Yao led the team and they confidence didn't waver after Yao got injured. Houston continued to play TEAM basketball with a lot of ball movement while staying away from a Tmac initiated offense until Houston reached the playoffs.

just when i thought your life couldnt suck anymore you make up some some make believe credit people are giving tmac and then come out to the nba forum to bash tmac even more. what...get tired of just bashing him in the rockets forum??

Kakaroach
06-02-2009, 08:29 PM
I dunno what you are talking about. I don't think I've heard anyone give him credit for that monster winning streak. But he did have a huge part to do with it. I remember them saying on SportsCenter that after Yao went down during that streak, T-Mac had to play 5 48-minute games or so.

FOBolous
06-02-2009, 08:48 PM
just when i thought your life couldnt suck anymore you make up some some make believe credit people are giving tmac and then come out to the nba forum to bash tmac even more. what...get tired of just bashing him in the rockets forum??

hey...everything i've stated are facts and are of things that actually happen. i didn't make any of those stuff up.


Which FOB knows it is, as much as he wants to downplay Tmac's career and proclaim himself the wizard who foresaw it all.

Tmac was a great player at one point of his career. I admit. I mean it's not everyday someone wins the title of scoring champion much less winning it two years in a row. But the last few years of his career? :pity: it's bad both on and off the court.


sorry cronz. typically i agree with you on certain issues, but this post was put up by a tmac hater. i just went back and looked at a bunch of the rockets forums, and there is a minimum, if any, threads that credit him for the streak.

if you look back, tmac fans only come out when tmac haters hash up things from the past that are irrelevant now.

i'm not responding to any threads. I'm responding to various posts made by individuals throughout the forums. But hey...everything I stated in my original post are facts and are of things that actually happen. If you don't agree with me...instead of making personal attacks, how bout reponding to it like what Chron and superkegger is going.

pippsux
06-02-2009, 09:04 PM
It was a tremendous team accomplishment and Tmac was part of. Everybody played above their heads and If not for Yao's injury (seems to be a recurring theme)
that year, who knows.
On a side note, still hoping and praying Tmac gets traded, time for all parties to move on.

D-Amazins
06-02-2009, 09:10 PM
Stop Hating on T-Mac no one is even speaking of this win streak & you bring it up to basically trash on T-Mac. You were much better off keeping it to yourself. Ive always been a T-Mac fan and a fan of whichever team he plays for, and yes I will admit he totally let me down this year I dont go around bashing him. This time next year u'll be back on the bandwagon.

As for the streak, I believe T-Mac was the MAIN reason for the streak I remember when I would watch the game and wake up to recaps of each game T-Mac was almost always the leading scorer and always was coming through when we needed him to keep it going, it was most def. a team effort as alot of guys stepped it up but most of the credit does deserves to go to T-Mac.

lilboytwister99
06-02-2009, 09:20 PM
That, I can hang with.

But I didn't know he got that much credit for the streak. I mean, whenever a team wins 22 in a row, it's clearly a team effort more than it is a player carrying the team.

Brother, you said it all right there. :clap:

So while people may be told to quit hating on T-Mac, others should be told to quit giving T-Mac all the credit.

It was definitely a team effort. One of the best I've ever seen.

Just as another example, the Rockets pushing the Lakers to 7 games in the playoffs. Is Ron Artest to credit for it? No way. It was a (very surprising) team effort. One that caught me off guard for sure.

I'd just like to see the Rockets have one season with a healthy T-Mac and Yao.... and I mean throughout the playoffs. With the bench they have now, they could win it all.

FOBolous
06-02-2009, 10:10 PM
Brother, you said it all right there. :clap:

So while people may be told to quit hating on T-Mac, others should be told to quit giving T-Mac all the credit.

It was definitely a team effort. One of the best I've ever seen.

Just as another example, the Rockets pushing the Lakers to 7 games in the playoffs. Is Ron Artest to credit for it? No way. It was a (very surprising) team effort. One that caught me off guard for sure.

I'd just like to see the Rockets have one season with a healthy T-Mac and Yao.... and I mean throughout the playoffs. With the bench they have now, they could win it all.

:clap:

There was a clear difference in the way Houston's role players played before and after Tmac's injury that season. I personally (and correctly in my opinion), attribute Houston's 22 game winning streak to the improved play of Houston's role players, and I get really annoy when I read posts from people who credits the winning streak to Tmac. People who disagree with me calls me a "tmac hater" but I prefer to be call a "true Rockets fan" who recognizes and appreciates all the things that ALL the players on the Rockets did. It was a TEAM effort, and I don't believe Tmac deserved all the recognition, credit, and praised he recieved as the result of the streak....especially when Houston's role players gained their confidence during Tmac's absence. As Chron stated earlier in the thread...replace Tmac with any star SG in the league on the Rockets team that year and Houston would've still produced the same result.


Now if Houston's role players gained their confidence BECAUSE of tmac, it would've been a whole different story.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-02-2009, 10:13 PM
He averaged a lot higher during the 22 win streak than usual.

He played more games and stepped up a lot in games.

Who else are you suppose to give credit to the most?

FOBolous
06-02-2009, 10:19 PM
He averaged a lot higher during the 22 win streak than usual.

He played more games and stepped up a lot in games.

Who else are you suppose to give credit to the most?

Houston's role players' stats increased during the streak also. In fact, their stats jumped during the streak also. In fact, their stats jumped during the time that Tmac was injured that year, and that just happens to coincides with the moment that Houston turned their season around and started winning. Here a repost of my OP:


2. Tmac gets injured. Yao became the initiator of Houston's offense. Houston's ball movement improved without Tmac in a Yao centric offense. Houston starts to roll. During the time that Tmac was injured...Houston was 8-3 as oppose to 13-15 earlier in the season when Tmac was the initiator of the offense.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-02-2009, 10:32 PM
Houston's role players' stats increased during the streak also. In fact, their stats jumped during the streak also. In fact, their stats jumped during the time that Tmac was injured that year, and that just happens to coincides with the moment that Houston turned their season around and started winning. Here a repost of my OP:

Ya but T-Mac stepped it up the most during the win streak.

Sure his stats may not as jumped as high as the role players but he had to led the team throughout those 22 games. The pressure was on him. The role players didn't have as much pressure as him. When the game was on the line, the ball went to T-Mac. In the clutch, it went to T-Mac. T-Mac proved people wrong and actually stayed healthy last year and won a lot of games.

T-Mac is credited more because he stepped up his game more and he proved people wrong.

goku
06-02-2009, 10:37 PM
another tmac thread if t-mac come back and the team is clicking on all cylinders this will be put to rest and or if he come back and he is limping it will the same so its a love&hate thing with rocket fans and t-mac

FOBolous
06-02-2009, 10:44 PM
Ya but T-Mac stepped it up the most during the win streak.

Sure his stats may not as jumped as high as the role players but he had to led the team throughout those 22 games. The pressure was on him. The role players didn't have as much pressure as him. When the game was on the line, the ball went to T-Mac. In the clutch, it went to T-Mac. T-Mac proved people wrong and actually stayed healthy last year and won a lot of games.

T-Mac is credited more because he stepped up his game more and he proved people wrong.

and the fact that Houston started winning after they moved away from a Tmac initiated offense doesn't mean anything? The fact that our role players turned the team around without him doesn't mean anything? are you trying to say that everything Houston's role players did means nothing and it was all Tmac?