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View Full Version : Does the Cavs loss better or worsen the chances of LeBron to New York?



Boston Faithful
05-31-2009, 05:56 AM
That's the question. No this isn't another random LeBron thread, I genuinely would like to know what everyone thinks..

Personally, I think it betters their chances. Big market, coach that fits his style much better and New York right now has a much better supporting cast then Cleveland. I'd take Nate, Lee, Al Harrington, Wilson Chandler and Chris Duhon over the Cavs players minus LeBron anyday.

If LeBron ends next season empty handed, that's 7 seasons in he could not win a championship. Keep in mind SUPERHUMAN efforts in this playoffs could not even get him to the Finals. I think along with another superstar in New York (Amare or Bosh or Wade) - LeBron could win a boatload of championships - plus they have a much brighter future than Cleveland with Nate Robinson, David Lee, Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari and their 8th pick all being very young. All those guys, another superstar and LeBron would equal a perennial title contender for at least 8-10 years.

The only thing that could change this argument is if Cleveland acquired a second superstar, which I think does not change much. They don't have enough trade chips to get someone as good as Bosh or Amare and getting Shaq or Carter at the later stages in their career would do nothing for the future of the franchise. Wally, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith and Z are all getting way up there in years, which does not leave them with much. And I don't think the city of Cleveland would attract many big name free agents in 2010.

My opinion: LeBron is good as gone if they do not win next year.

1goldenrican1
05-31-2009, 06:01 AM
Only time will tell. I think the Cavs will have their biggest off-season in the past 7 years. They dont have a choice. If they dont win OR make it to the Finals next year its 60/40 he is gone. You are correct that the Knicks have a better supporting cast. Without Lebron, The cavs would have 20-33 wins.

Reversed86Curse
05-31-2009, 07:24 AM
He'll stay; IMO, better chance of not having a superstar as part of the supporting cast, which would take too many touches and the focus off of Lebron- he's a let me get mine first player

GiantMetKnick
05-31-2009, 07:36 AM
Well, I think the Cavs losing helps the chances of Lebron in a Knick uniform. But no matter what happens next year, I still think he stays.

I hate him, unless he comes to NY :)

Bnasty312
05-31-2009, 07:43 AM
Looks like Ben Wallace (14mil), Wally (13mil), and Varejo(5.78 player option) are gone so that free's up just over 32 million. I think if they could scoop up Boozer, or cheaper Marion/ Sheed for strong low post plus strong role players like Trevor Ariza, Matt Barnes type they would be solid with the core they have plus their draft picks.

Big Quett
05-31-2009, 08:10 AM
Looks like Ben Wallace (14mil), Wally (13mil), and Varejo(5.78 player option) are gone so that free's up just over 32 million. I think if they could scoop up Boozer, or cheaper Marion/ Sheed for strong low post plus strong role players like Trevor Ariza, Matt Barnes type they would be solid with the core they have plus their draft picks.

Ben is on the books for next year at 14 mil

Bnasty312
05-31-2009, 08:20 AM
Ben is on the books for next year at 14 mil

If Wallace chooses to retire, he will almost certainly seek a buyout since retiring outright would cost him next season's salary. But he said money will not be the determining factor in his decision.

"I think I deserve [a buyout]," Wallace said. "But if I don't get one and I've just got to give it up, that's what I'll do."

actual paragraph from ESPN story this morning. I bet the Cavs are praying he reitres.

NotVeryOriginal
05-31-2009, 10:07 AM
Looks like Ben Wallace (14mil), Wally (13mil), and Varejo(5.78 player option) are gone so that free's up just over 32 million. I think if they could scoop up Boozer, or cheaper Marion/ Sheed for strong low post plus strong role players like Trevor Ariza, Matt Barnes type they would be solid with the core they have plus their draft picks.

Lakers will let Odom walk before they let Ariza go.

Bnasty312
05-31-2009, 10:56 AM
Lakers will let Odom walk before they let Ariza go.

Oh for sure, but don't think he would come off the bench for Clev. and not what Ariza is gonna be asking for once the season is over.

fishfan79
05-31-2009, 10:58 AM
doesnt make a difference he has a better cast in cleveland, better ownership, and he is happy there

Hustla23
05-31-2009, 10:59 AM
Too early to tell.

Next season will determine what happens.

Cavs still have one more season to acquire some players and make another title run.

nyKnicks126
05-31-2009, 11:05 AM
LeBron James is too big of a name to be in such a small market. Everyone knows he loves the cameras, and loves attention. If the Cavs loose next year, he will be bound to go elsewhere probably NY.

D-Leethal
05-31-2009, 11:08 AM
doesnt make a difference he has a better cast in cleveland, better ownership, and he is happy there

lol, first off his cast is far worse and only getting older. Second his owner is one of the cheapest in the league and has been quoted saying 'you can win a championship without spending', and third, if you think he is still happy after that series you are sadly mistaken

Kakaroach
05-31-2009, 11:08 AM
I don't see how it makes it better. It only makes it worse.

bigmouth
05-31-2009, 11:16 AM
He'll stay; IMO, better chance of not having a superstar as part of the supporting cast, which would take too many touches and the focus off of Lebron- he's a let me get mine first player
LOL! Wait...you're being sarcastic...right?

NYK|NYY
05-31-2009, 11:20 AM
Don't really see him leaving, would be too good to be true.

J-Relo
05-31-2009, 11:20 AM
I don't see how it makes it better. It only makes it worse.

definitely... if they have won this year it could have been different... everyone knows why Lebron lost... oh yes CAVS lost, but why only Lebron played?

Bnasty312
05-31-2009, 11:42 AM
You know whats funny, ESPN called the cavs "The Lebrons". If that doesn't say anything about the supporting cast I don't know what does.

Nighthawk
05-31-2009, 11:50 AM
LOL! Wait...you're being sarcastic...right?

I hope he was. Lebron COULD be a ME first. But some say he looks to pass to this teammates to much an even on last shots. You give him some other all-stars or quality talent and its over. If Lebron ever has a dominant low post force in the paint(Z, A.V and Ben are far from that) an a sharp shooting wing its over(West,Gibson, and Wally are to inconsistent).

Kenny
05-31-2009, 11:53 AM
doesnt make a difference he has a better cast in cleveland, better ownership, and he is happy there

his cast in cleveland is not much better at all then the knicks have.. Seriously if you compare the rosters its very close

29$JerZ
05-31-2009, 11:56 AM
Depends on a numerous amount of situations.

First Knicks need to figure out the Robinson/Lee contract situation. Either one can cost the Knicks a Max player if they demand too much.

Second, Cleveland needs to make a trade for a guy Like Boozer ASAP because in 2010 your looking at losing the majority of their current front line (Z,Wallace,Smith,Wally)

Even if LeBron wins or loses next season he will test the market. Remember, Cleveland will have the Cap to sign another Max player however they lack pieces to S/T for an Amar'e/Bosh and they won't be able to quickly find replacements for guys like Z who fit so well with their current team.

Knicks core is a lot better than Cleveland but it would take losing some of that core to get another star. Our only sure bet is getting Amar'e since D'Antonio is the perfect coach for him. We could essentially get him as an UFA so we don't have to waste assets. I don't see the Knicks trading for Bosh since you can get Amar'e for a lot less and still keep players like Lee/Nate/Wilson/8th pick

In 2010 LBJ will be looking at the following cores.

Cleveland

Mo Williams
Delonte West
Lebron James
Anderson Varajao
>>>>

vs

Knicks

09 PG
Wilson Chandler
Danilo Gallinari
David Lee
Max Star 2 (Amar'e?)


What I;m saying is Cleveland needs to get a guyy like Boozer in the offseason or risk losing LBJ. Like a poster previously said, 7 seasons + best post season performance of his life yet no title.

Knicks just have to wait and see how things play out. We are literally in a great position since we have young cheap talent like Wilson and Danilo and great role players like Lee.
Just have to see how things plan out, I won't start no LeBron to NY statements until I hear it from his ,mouth.

NYYankeesWin#27
05-31-2009, 12:10 PM
i think he will go to the knicks n we get amare/bosh

pg 2009 pick
sg chandler
sf lebron
pf lee
c amare/bosh

effen5
05-31-2009, 12:49 PM
Cleveland reminds me of the Chicago Cubs, theyll never win one or wait til next year

Blah Blah Blah
05-31-2009, 01:07 PM
At first I thought off of them making the eastern conference finals he may end up staying. But after seeing his reaction after they were eliminated, there is a good chance he will end up leaving if there is no improvement next year meaning if they don't make the finals he prolly will leave. If 39 ppg, 8 rpg, and 8 apg, don't help you advance to even the finals, there is something wrong.

TheLogical
05-31-2009, 01:27 PM
In a recent ESPN Interview LeBron said he had no thought of leaving the Cavaliers.

madiaz3
05-31-2009, 01:55 PM
In a recent ESPN Interview LeBron said he had no thought of leaving the Cavaliers.

I saw the one with Bill Clinton saying he did not have sexual relations with that woman.

Bnasty312
05-31-2009, 02:00 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
I saw the one with Bill Clinton saying he did not have sexual relations with that woman.

:laugh: Classic

IDB Josh M
05-31-2009, 02:31 PM
Seeing Lebron's very classy reaction to losing, you know, leaving the court without congratulating Dwight Howard (or the rest of the Magic team), storming out of the locker room and skipping the press conference, I think Lebron has had it with the Cavs. In other words, the only way the Cavs have a chance at keeping lebron, is if they just gut the entire roster sans lebron, and get shaq, or greg oden or, SOMEONE to back James up.

But, to be honest, the only person who knows where James is going is Lebron james himself. Considering sports radio has said that Lebron is more likely to leave if he wins a title than if he does not. I've heard it all. But honestly, if you're a big star, who doesn't want to go to a big market. Jordan stuck it out with the bulls because, Chicago is # 3 in the market. Kobe has alot of patience with the Lakers despite his drama-queen antics because, Los Angeles is # 2 in the market. Guess who is number 1! The only real problem with the Knicks is crappy management. But, D'Antoni's coaching scheme fits Lebron's style of play. If and when he figures out iso plays, maybe Lebron will be bigger than Jordan.



I saw the one with Bill Clinton saying he did not have sexual relations with that woman.


In a recent ESPN Interview LeBron said he had no thought of leaving the Cavaliers.

Yeah, THEY say lots of stuff. ^__^

QU Bobcat
05-31-2009, 02:41 PM
1st off, David Lee definitely will not be a Knick unless they give him top dollar out there.
2)What's with all this Boozer talk, now he might be the most reliable source of media, but Vecsey wrote in the Post the other day that Boozer is telling people close to him that he is only interested in the Pistons and Nets.
3) This scenario hurts any other team seeking Lebron IMO. To get to the ECF and lose because you know you only need ONE other really good player next you, hurts. But lets be real, it's easier to find that 1 player, than to go and embed yourself into a new team and a new system

todu82
05-31-2009, 02:42 PM
I think it increases his chances of leaving Cleveland next summer. He is a one-man show on the Cavs and as long as he has no supporting cast, he won't win a title.

D-Leethal
05-31-2009, 02:43 PM
Seeing Lebron's very classy reaction to losing, you know, leaving the court without congratulating Dwight Howard (or the rest of the Magic team), storming out of the locker room and skipping the press conference, I think Lebron has had it with the Cavs. In other words, the only way the Cavs have a chance at keeping lebron, is if they just gut the entire roster sans lebron, and get shaq, or greg oden or, SOMEONE to back James up.

But, to be honest, the only person who knows where James is going is Lebron james himself. Considering sports radio has said that Lebron is more likely to leave if he wins a title than if he does not. I've heard it all. But honestly, if you're a big star, who doesn't want to go to a big market. Jordan stuck it out with the bulls because, Chicago is # 3 in the market. Kobe has alot of patience with the Lakers despite his drama-queen antics because, Los Angeles is # 2 in the market. Guess who is number 1! The only real problem with the Knicks is crappy management. But, D'Antoni's coaching scheme fits Lebron's style of play. If and when he figures out iso plays, maybe Lebron will be bigger than Jordan.






Yeah, THEY say lots of stuff. ^__^

actions speak louder than words, and Lebron actions last night spoke volumes about how he feels with his organization right now

yanksknicksgmen
05-31-2009, 02:46 PM
Lebron will come to the knicks :clap:

akagiredsuns
05-31-2009, 02:49 PM
doesnt make a difference he has a better cast in cleveland, better ownership, and he is happy there


LOL the funniest and most ignorant comment of the day. better cast? better ownership? i know its not CLE ur talking about. 6 years and what does lebron have? nothing. hes going to NY in 2010. im fearing a knicks dynasty with that supporting cast and lebron. Danny Ferry is the sorriest GM in the league on top of the most overpaid bench player in history.

Don Starks
05-31-2009, 02:57 PM
the fact that lebron has to have a triple double in order for the team to win or be competitive in a playoff game, it just shows how weak his supporting cast is. on no other team in the NBA is that necessary, and only enforces the fact that the cavs front office cant surround Lebron with decent talent. if mo williams is supposed to be your "scotty pippen" then you have a problem.

Jays Claw
05-31-2009, 03:09 PM
The Cavs have one more shot in locking LeBron James up and that will be next year.

TheChosenOne88
05-31-2009, 03:12 PM
lol, first off his cast is far worse and only getting older. Second his owner is one of the cheapest in the league and has been quoted saying 'you can win a championship without spending', and third, if you think he is still happy after that series you are sadly mistaken

I'd love to see that quote because last time I checked, Dan Gilbert doesn't care what it costs to bring a championship to Cleveland. While everyone else is trying to clear cap space because of the economy, the Cavs aren't. The Cavs were $30 Million+ over the cap and didn't care. He also spent $25 Million in 2007 on our practice facilities. He is anything but cheap and the Cavs are getting more money by selling 15% ownership to a group of investors from China.

geoffizfoshiz
05-31-2009, 03:56 PM
LOL the funniest and most ignorant comment of the day. better cast? better ownership? i know its not CLE ur talking about. 6 years and what does lebron have? nothing. hes going to NY in 2010. im fearing a knicks dynasty with that supporting cast and lebron. Danny Ferry is the sorriest GM in the league on top of the most overpaid bench player in history.

LOL THIS is the funniest and mostignorant comment of the day. Your logic is terrible....i'm actually kind of hoping that this was supposed to be a joke post.

You say LeBron will leave the cavs because of a lack of supporting cast...and than you say he's going to NY? WHO THE HELL is going to be his supporting cast in New York? New York hasn't put a decent team together since Sprewell...which is pretty sad. He goes to NY and he has to start all over again with a crappy team and wait for ownership to make moves...which will be difficult since the Knicks ownership has made some of the worst moves in the history of the league. On the other hand he can be on a team that has been adding pieces for a while now and has a solid foundation to build on. Nate Robinson or Mo Williams. Eddy Curry or Big Z. I know what team I'd rather play on.

6 years and LeBron has a Eastern Conf. Championship, several allstar MVPs, an Olympic gold medal, a league mvp, runner-up for defensive player of the year, and lead his team to the best record in the NBA this year. He's still young. By comparison, Jordan came into the league in '84 and didn't win a championship until 1991. Were you sitting around in 1990 and wondering why Jordan doesn't leave the Bulls because he had nothing to show for '84-1990? Exactly my point.

And why on earth would you bash ferry for overpaying players, and than at the same time say Lebron will go to the knicks? New York is famous for overpaying their bums.

Like I said...your comment was a joke.

Vinny642
05-31-2009, 04:09 PM
Lebron is pissed right now, I dont think he wants to be a Cav

geoffizfoshiz
05-31-2009, 04:15 PM
Lebron is pissed right now, I dont think he wants to be a Cav

maybe so...but if he left the cavs it would be because he wants to win now, so obviously New York is not the answer.

Vinny642
05-31-2009, 04:18 PM
I never said he is going to NY, I just dont think right now today he wants to be a Cav

_KB24_
05-31-2009, 04:19 PM
Its going to be real interesting next year. The CAVS would have to WIN a ring for him to stay. Going to the Finals and losing for the second time will really disappoint him. Hes a gonner.

jimm120
05-31-2009, 04:23 PM
the fact that lebron has to have a triple double in order for the team to win or be competitive in a playoff game, it just shows how weak his supporting cast is. on no other team in the NBA is that necessary, and only enforces the fact that the cavs front office cant surround Lebron with decent talent. if mo williams is supposed to be your "scotty pippen" then you have a problem.

It reminds me of the old John Starks days.....Starks was great and all but I felt as if he just wasn't enough. In the end, it seems that was the case. Starks, to me, was like what JR Smith is for the Nuggets, a good player that can shoot well from the outside and have some great games. Sure, Starks had better games, but that was mostly because he was given way too many chances to score. So, in the end, the Ewing era didn't bring any championships because they left him alone with a great defense but only a #3 and not a #2.

In Cleveland, it is the same case. LeBron is there but they've surrounded him with crap, practically. Mo Williams is a #3 and even then, he'd be a worse #3 than Starks was.

Missing56&33
05-31-2009, 08:11 PM
Lebron is pissed right now, I dont think he wants to be a Cav

I agree with you. The way he walked off the court Sat night and didn't speak to no one not even his mother wasn't a good sign for the cavs. I know he was upset over the loss but Lebron is a professional....he was really upset. IMO all the knicks have to do is be competitive next year and put some pieces in place and I see Lebron moving on to the knicks

I think Cleveland will bring everybody back from this team next year and prolly same results

{}
05-31-2009, 08:22 PM
And why on earth would you bash ferry for overpaying players, and than at the same time say Lebron will go to the knicks? New York is famous for overpaying their bums.

Like I said...your comment was a joke.

New York doesn't care about the salary cap either. The Cavs are basically financially crippled as it stands right now. It's an unbelievable and flat out embarrassing display of incompetence from twinkle toes Fairy that the Cavs have the 3rd highest team payroll in the league. This is what happens when you turn over the fate of an organization to a career soft pansy like Fairy. He's essentially gathered the worst contracts in the league and has overpaid his own players by 2-3x their worth. Lebron has no choice but to leave if he wants to win.

As for starting over in NY? You're delusional. Put Chris Wilcox in place of Sideshow Bob and Lebron is in the finals right now. Replace those two dwarfs Lebron plays with in the backcourt with Jeffries, Richardson, Duhon and he's in the finals. For christ's sake, David Lee would be the 2nd best player on the Cavs team right now. And we're still not including Al Harrington, Hughes and Nate. Remove Lebron and the Cavs have possibly the weakest, softest, and most pathetic roster in the entire league.

mikantsass
05-31-2009, 08:32 PM
Well i do agree that the Knicks supporting cast is better than the Cavs. However, the Knicks/D'Antoni's style of play does not include defense. Defense is something that lebron prides himself on. Do you see him making a jump from one of the best defensive schemes in the NBA to probably the worst in the NBA? NY is certainly appealing for LeBron, but i dont think the cavs losing this series has any impact, positive or negative, on the decision to go to NY. The Knicks werent even close to making the playoffs

Spencesc11
05-31-2009, 08:35 PM
Cleveland will make a splash in the trade market this offseason and it will be with lebron james input. Ben wallace to new orleans for tyson chandler could happen. Personally i think they would be better off with david west. Lebron and m. Williams need a consistent 3rd scorer on this team. Lebron is not going to win a championship by himself. Look at the celtics with garnett, allen, and pierce they sacrificed stats to play collectively and look what happened. But you need 3 weapons not 2. Look at the lakers (they win when either odom or bynum has a good game to compliment kobe and pau. Another scenario to look at would be zac randolph. A lot of baggage but consistent low post scoring would be huge for this team and with blake griffin on the way in b. Wallace for randolph straight up would work for both clubs.

geoffizfoshiz
05-31-2009, 08:39 PM
New York doesn't care about the salary cap either. The Cavs are basically financially crippled as it stands right now. It's an unbelievable and flat out embarrassing display of incompetence from twinkle toes Fairy that the Cavs have the 3rd highest team payroll in the league. This is what happens when you turn over the fate of an organization to a career soft pansy like Fairy. He's essentially gathered the worst contracts in the league and has overpaid his own players by 2-3x their worth. Lebron has no choice but to leave if he wants to win.

As for starting over in NY? You're delusional. Put Chris Wilcox in place of Sideshow Bob and Lebron is in the finals right now. Replace those two dwarfs Lebron plays with in the backcourt with Jeffries, Richardson, Duhon and he's in the finals. For christ's sake, David Lee would be the 2nd best player on the Cavs team right now. And we're still not including Al Harrington, Hughes and Nate. Remove Lebron and the Cavs have possibly the weakest, softest, and most pathetic roster in the entire league.

Perhaps he has no choice but to leave if he wants to win, but going to a team that hasn't won in about a decade isn't the answer. New York doesn't know how to win. At least Danny Ferry has done something with his cap space. He's build a team that headlined the NBA all season. New York is a draft team every year. Why would LeBron believe it would be any different if he came there?

New York loses and loses big every year. The East is terrible and even teams with terrible records can make it in at the lower seeds. The fact that New York hasn't been able to claim a 7th or 8th spot is humiliating. You can't possibily convince me that LeBron should abandon an experienced team that had the leagues best record this year for a team that has been terrible for the last ten years and have basically done nothing but wait for him.

And please dont' try and convince me that LeBron + Hughes will make a good team. It was a disaster in Cleveland, it sure as hell won't work in a city that obviously don't know anything about winning basketball.

New York is the embarassment of the NBA and has been since Patrick Ewing left. Nobody wants to go there or else at least one of the many NBA superstars would be there. You don't leave a winning team for an embarassment.

Bnasty312
05-31-2009, 08:51 PM
Cleveland will make a splash in the trade market this offseason and it will be with lebron james input. Ben wallace to new orleans for tyson chandler could happen. Personally i think they would be better off with david west. Lebron and m. Williams need a consistent 3rd scorer on this team. Lebron is not going to win a championship by himself. Look at the celtics with garnett, allen, and pierce they sacrificed stats to play collectively and look what happened. But you need 3 weapons not 2. Look at the lakers (they win when either odom or bynum has a good game to compliment kobe and pau. Another scenario to look at would be zac randolph. A lot of baggage but consistent low post scoring would be huge for this team and with blake griffin on the way in b. Wallace for randolph straight up would work for both clubs.

Dude Ben Wallace is looking to retire, but lets say he comes back why would the cavs sacrifice a solid back up defender for a more expensive offensive player who can't run the floor with Lebron?

RaiderLakersA's
05-31-2009, 08:58 PM
I don't see LBJ staying in Cleveland, unless they have the best offseason ever. And even then it's going to come down to what the competition is doing to get better. Fans won't admit it, but I think FA players weigh their chances of winning a title first and foremost before signing with a team. Can LeBron win a title in NYC? I have my doubts. Maybe if they added D. Wade, Bosh and LeBron.

Kenny
05-31-2009, 09:02 PM
the knicks have a better roster right now then the cavs do.. Knicks win in the low 30s most years, this cavs teams wouldnt even win that without lebron

geoffizfoshiz
05-31-2009, 09:12 PM
Why is everyone bashing the Cavs supporting cast now? Sure they bailed on him in the Conf. Finals, but they played great all season long and up until that round. Mo Williams had a career best in ppg and 3-point percentage. Big Z had his best scoring and rebounding seasons since 05-06. Delonte West also had his best 3pt percentage of his career.

I find it hard to believe that a young New York team with almost no playoff experience would have fared better in the CONF Finals. It just doesn't work that way.

Don Starks
05-31-2009, 09:29 PM
Perhaps he has no choice but to leave if he wants to win, but going to a team that hasn't won in about a decade isn't the answer. New York doesn't know how to win. At least Danny Ferry has done something with his cap space. He's build a team that headlined the NBA all season. New York is a draft team every year. Why would LeBron believe it would be any different if he came there?

What exactly has cleveland won? and what has danny ferry done that is so great with his cap space other then put together a group of role players that cant compete unless Lebron scores a triple double. the only reason the cavs headlined this season is cause of lebron, not the supporting cast.

New York loses and loses big every year. The East is terrible and even teams with terrible records can make it in at the lower seeds. The fact that New York hasn't been able to claim a 7th or 8th spot is humiliating. You can't possibly convince me that LeBron should abandon an experienced team that had the leagues best record this year for a team that has been terrible for the last ten years and have basically done nothing but wait for him.

the cavs experience has not proven anything. if anything they have proven that they are a terrible supporting cast. i could definitely see Lebron leaving the cavs for New York despite the losing seasons, look at what happend in Boston with the celtics. they were terrible for a long time and it turned out they were two players short of a championship.

And please dont' try and convince me that LeBron + Hughes will make a good team. It was a disaster in Cleveland, it sure as hell won't work in a city that obviously don't know anything about winning basketball.

Hughes is an expiring contract, not part of the knicks long term plans so dont make it seem like we are trying to lure Lebron here with hughes. you obviously have no idea what your talking about.

New York is the embarrassment of the NBA and has been since Patrick Ewing left. Nobody wants to go there or else at least one of the many NBA superstars would be there. You don't leave a winning team for an embarrassment.

this is where you prove your ignorance, maybe you should put more thought into one of your three posts before you spew such idiotic ********. if anything the cavs are the embarrassment because they have the best player in the world and that front office still cant make it past the eastern conference finals. the fact that there haven't been NBA allstars in new york isnt because they dont want to come here, its because we have been over the cap for so long that the knicks couldn't sign any of them. there are already players seeking out New York, one of which is Amare. heres a post. thats NY he wants to play for, not the cavs. I havent heard about any players clamoring to get to cleveland, have you?
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/knicks/archives/2009/05/amare_knicks_sh.html

you dont leave a winning team for an embarrassment? thats a pretty daring statement considering both teams are sitting at home right now. at this point the knicks have just as much chance at a championship as the cavs! last time i checked the knicks franchise has more championships then the cavs, **** that entire city hasnt won a championship since the 60's. talk about embarrassment.

gbizfoshiz
05-31-2009, 09:59 PM
this is where you prove your ignorance, maybe you should put more thought into one of your three posts before you spew such idiotic ********. if anything the cavs are the embarrassment because they have the best player in the world and that front office still cant make it past the eastern conference finals. the fact that there haven't been NBA allstars in new york isnt because they dont want to come here, its because we have been over the cap for so long that the knicks couldn't sign any of them. there are already players seeking out New York, one of which is Amare. heres a post. thats NY he wants to play for, not the cavs. I havent heard about any players clamoring to get to cleveland, have you?
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/knicks/archives/2009/05/amare_knicks_sh.html

you dont leave a winning team for an embarrassment? thats a pretty daring statement considering both teams are sitting at home right now. at this point the knicks have just as much chance at a championship as the cavs! last time i checked the knicks franchise has more championships then the cavs, **** that entire city hasnt won a championship since the 60's. talk about embarrassment.

There is a HUGE difference between a team that reaches the Conf Finals and has won the Conf Finals the last few years, and a team that can't manage a playoff spot in the worst the east has been in years. At least the Cavs were in the fight....the Knicks have been an embarassment for years.....when is the last time they even managed a winning record? And all these years of big moves and draft picks have been a waste of time and really showed off the ignorance of the front office. At one point, both the cavs and the knicks were crappy teams. The Cavs did something about it and the Knicks continued to be an embarassment.

Want to know how to tell the Knicks are currently terrible? The only thing you can say positive about them is that they won a championship 30 years ago lol. Honestly, I'm not even a Cavs fan, so you can insult them all you want and talk about how they haven't won any championships. But one question: is cleveland the number 1 market for basketball? No...didn't think so. You want to talk embarassment? How about a team playing in a city that cares the most about basketball, and not being able to put together a winning season? The fact that players aren't trying to get into cleveland only makes the knicks look worse lol..that point actually works against you. They aren't a hotspot for basketball, yet they have managed to have more success than the Knicks have had in 10 years. embarassing.

nyyankees09
05-31-2009, 10:18 PM
It depends on how to Cavs do next year. If they don't win it all, he'll be going to either the Nets or Knicks.

Don Starks
05-31-2009, 10:38 PM
There is a HUGE difference between a team that reaches the Conf Finals and has won the Conf Finals the last few years, and a team that can't manage a playoff spot in the worst the east has been in years. At least the Cavs were in the fight....the Knicks have been an embarassment for years.....when is the last time they even managed a winning record? And all these years of big moves and draft picks have been a waste of time and really showed off the ignorance of the front office. At one point, both the cavs and the knicks were crappy teams. The Cavs did something about it and the Knicks continued to be an embarassment.


Want to know how to tell the Knicks are currently terrible? The only thing you can say positive about them is that they won a championship 30 years ago lol. Honestly, I'm not even a Cavs fan, so you can insult them all you want and talk about how they haven't won any championships. But one question: is cleveland the number 1 market for basketball? No...didn't think so. You want to talk embarassment? How about a team playing in a city that cares the most about basketball, and not being able to put together a winning season? The fact that players aren't trying to get into cleveland only makes the knicks look worse lol..that point actually works against you. They aren't a hotspot for basketball, yet they have managed to have more success than the Knicks have had in 10 years. embarassing.


what exactly did the cavs do about it? they were bad enough of a team to be able to grab the number one overall pick Lebron James. other then drafting LBJ that front office has done nothing of importance. give me an example of a ground break front office move by the cleveland front office. cause nothing has brought them a championship and one could argue that the only reason the cavs are even relevant is LBJ. Lebron james is the only scoring threat on that team. if there was another all star on that team they would be a championship team. and dont say mo williams is an all star, he got into that all star game by default.


what does a fanbase have to do with front office moves? the fans have no say in what players we trade or draft. i dont see how because NY is a big basketball city that its more embarrassing that that havent been good. is it less embarrassing when a small city does poorly? you have no point. any team that drafted Lebron would be better then they currently are, thats a fact. the only difference between between the knicks and the cavs is LBJ, you take him out of the equation you have to evenly matched teams. that point makes the cavs front office look horrible if you think about it. as you put it, the knicks front office has been terrible, and therefore the team has lost. the cavs front office has been winning and still cant put a team together that could compete with the knicks minus lebron james.

.

geoffizfoshiz
05-31-2009, 10:59 PM
what exactly did the cavs do about it? they were bad enough of a team to be able to grab the number one overall pick Lebron James. other then drafting LBJ that front office has done nothing of importance. give me an example of a ground break front office move by the cleveland front office. cause nothing has brought them a championship and one could argue that the only reason the cavs are even relevant is LBJ. Lebron james is the only scoring threat on that team. if there was another all star on that team they would be a championship team. and dont say mo williams is an all star, he got into that all star game by default.


what does a fanbase have to do with front office moves? the fans have no say in what players we trade or draft. i dont see how because NY is a big basketball city that its more embarrassing that that havent been good. is it less embarrassing when a small city does poorly? you have no point. any team that drafted Lebron would be better then they currently are, thats a fact. the only difference between between the knicks and the cavs is LBJ, you take him out of the equation you have to evenly matched teams. that point makes the cavs front office look horrible if you think about it. as you put it, the knicks front office has been terrible, and therefore the team has lost. the cavs front office has been winning and still cant put a team together that could compete with the knicks minus lebron james.


It's not about fanbase, it's about being the #1 market and players WANTING to play there based on that...which many of them do and is the #1 main reason why people think he is going to end up in NY. So it's a city where many players actually want to play, yet they have a piss poor roster for 10 years. No excuse for that.

Nothing of importance? They tried several times to get LeBron some help. Larry Hughes was supposed to be a good move as he had a great season in Washington the year before. At least the Cavs were smart enough to get rid of him quick. In comparison, NY makes moves that don't work out and than they continue to pay them while they sit on the bench. It's not the Cav's front office's fault that he was a bust and didn't work out. They brought in an all-star Mo Williams and it got them the best record in the NBA. Hard to call that "nothing of importance"...unless of course you are biased.

LBJ is not the only difference. Cleveland has several former allstars and players with significant playoff experience. New York has accumulated a decade of embarassment. There is a big difference.

"if there was another all star on that team they would be a championship team. and dont say mo williams is an all star, he got into that all star game by default."....are you ********? I don't even mean that to be rude, I just want to know medically...are you? Because even if Mo Williams was an allstar by default, that is STILL WAY FURTHER than anything any Knick has gotten recently. So how can you sit here and tell me that the Cavs suck because they can't put an allstar around LeBron (even though the do), while you know damn well that there isn't one NY player that was even considered for a DEFAULT allstar position? That makes absolutly no sense at all. You are telling me he should leave the Cavs because they can't put an allstar caliber player around him, and instead go to a team where there are also no allstar caliber players. Zero logic at all.

leftymo
05-31-2009, 11:10 PM
Colin brought this up, but one of the biggest inside stories to break before the orlando series was the investment group from china buying the arena in cleveland. You don't invest in an arena unless you think its worth investing in. Lebron's legacy will be in cleveland.

I've lost track of the number of "high profiled" players rumored to go to NYK only to not end up there...

Lebron's staying folks. It's already been determined. The Cavs owners now have the financial backing to keep him there.

Mile High Champ
05-31-2009, 11:11 PM
You know the cavs will be very busy this off-season trying to find some legit help for Lebron..

29$JerZ
05-31-2009, 11:14 PM
:pity:

Whoever says the Knicks are an embarrassment and NOBODY wants to play there is out of their mind.

Try having Dolan,Isiah and Layden take a team over for a decade and destroy it.

That history is passed us and we are already ahead of schedule. 32 wins may not seem like a lot considering Cleveland won 60+ but take LBJ off of Cleveland and see if they even reach 20.

I can care less if LeBron comes to New York. Any insults I've heard over the last decade about the Knicks cannot be outmatched.

Cleveland lost to Orlando because they are the 1 team who creates the biggest mismatch for the Cavs. If LBJ has to guard Hedo that leave Lewis on the 3pt line, and vice versa. Cleveland's supporting cast is meant to be built around 1 player, that's a problem. It's hard to win a title on your own, that's why LBJ will test FA in 2010 regardless of winning a title or not. Truth is if your not MJ you need 2 stars to win it all.

Knicks are in a great position because we have Cap for 2 possible Max players, but that's not it. We have 2 great young players in Wilson and Danilo who will be in Rookie contracts in 2010 and allow more financial flexibility for our team. It's not all about LBJ, he is just the most sought prize.

New York Market, fans who still make the Knicks one of the top 10 in attendance depsite a decade of losing and being screwed over and a system every player likes are a hell of a good reason to come here. Insulting a city and its fan base it not right and being a homer is a sad thing. We have a lot of faults but when its all said and done we will be back in the mix in 2010 and maybe even 2009.

29$JerZ
05-31-2009, 11:15 PM
You know the cavs will be very busy this off-season trying to find some legit help for Lebron..

I expect them to offer Wallace's expiring contract for someone like Michael Redd/Memhet Okur/Vince Carter

They need to improve the team in a season in the worst way. Same can be said about Miami.

b_rad23
05-31-2009, 11:25 PM
Why exactly would Utah trade expiring Okur for expiring (contractually and physically) Ben Wallace?

As for the thread, neither.

Don Starks
05-31-2009, 11:31 PM
geoffizfoshiz;9655800
It's not about fanbase, it's about being the #1 market and players WANTING to play there based on that...which many of them do and is the #1 main reason why people think he is going to end up in NY. So it's a city where many players actually want to play, yet they have a piss poor roster for 10 years. No excuse for that.

Nothing of importance? They tried several times to get LeBron some help. Larry Hughes was supposed to be a good move as he had a great season in Washington the year before. At least the Cavs were smart enough to get rid of him quick. In comparison, NY makes moves that don't work out and than they continue to pay them while they sit on the bench. It's not the Cav's front office's fault that he was a bust and didn't work out. They brought in an all-star Mo Williams and it got them the best record in the NBA. Hard to call that "nothing of importance"...unless of course you are biased.

LBJ is not the only difference. Cleveland has several former all-stars and players with significant playoff experience. New York has accumulated a decade of embarrassment. There is a big difference.

"if there was another all star on that team they would be a championship team. and dont say mo williams is an all star, he got into that all star game by default."....are you ********? I don't even mean that to be rude, I just want to know medically...are you? Because even if Mo Williams was an all-star by default, that is STILL WAY FURTHER than anything any Knick has gotten recently. So how can you sit here and tell me that the Cavs suck because they can't put an all-star around LeBron (even though the do), while you know damn well that there isn't one NY player that was even considered for a DEFAULT all-star position? That makes absolutely no sense at all. You are telling me he should leave the Cavs because they can't put an all-star caliber player around him, and instead go to a team where there are also no all-star caliber players. Zero logic at all.[/QUOTE]

1.how does this prove that the cavs front office has done anything of importance? all you said was that they tried to bring someone in, he was a bust and then got rid of him quickly. stop making yourself look foolish.

2. someone seems frustrated. do you always call people names when you get angry? way to let some internet posting get the best of you. i will try to tone it down so you dont get too upset.

3. David Lee is an all-star caliber player and was considered for the all star game because he led the NBA in double doubles. mo williams got in cause jameer nelson separated his shoulder. maybe if mo started making more 3's and no so many garuntee's they would be in the finals right now. all that playoff experience you speak off does nothing but show how Lebrons supporting cast pissed the bed when he needed them most, and therefore making the front office look bad.

gbizfoshiz
05-31-2009, 11:39 PM
1.how does this prove that the cavs front office has done anything of importance? all you said was that they tried to bring someone in, he was a bust and then got rid of him quickly. stop making yourself look foolish.

2. someone seems frustrated. do you always call people names when you get angry? way to let some internet posting get the best of you. i will try to tone it down so you dont get too upset.

3. David Lee is an all-star caliber player and was considered for the all star game because he led the NBA in double doubles. mo williams got in cause jameer nelson separated his shoulder. maybe if mo started making more 3's and no so many garuntee's they would be in the finals right now. all that playoff experience you speak off does nothing but show how Lebrons supporting cast pissed the bed when he needed them most, and therefore making the front office look bad.

1. Do you not know how to read or did you completly skip the part where I said they brought in an allstar who helped them get the leagues best record? Selective read much?

2. I'm not angry at all..like I said, it's more of a medical significance. If you are truly ********, i'll go easier on you. I was just wondering..but obviously you took it seriously...which makes me wonder lol.

3. So Mo Williams actually makes the allstar team and you bash him. David Lee fails to make the allstar team and you praise him. Does it get any more biased than this? Perhaps if NY wasn't the absolute #1 joke of the league than they'd look at their players more seriously. It's hard to have a allstar caliber player when you have a high school caliber team. And do you honestly think a bunch of players who haven't played on a winning team the last few years, let alone make it anywhere int he playoffs, would be more dependable than an experienced cavs team that has been there before, even to the finals? If so, no need to answer the "******" question from before.

gbizfoshiz
05-31-2009, 11:48 PM
BTW..last allstar to play in New York = Allan Houston in 2001. Could that really be any more embarassing?
But that's ok because the Knicks have the slamdunk champ..which was really there only ticket to the allstar game lol.

Don Starks
05-31-2009, 11:58 PM
1. Do you not know how to read or did you completly skip the part where I said they brought in an allstar who helped them get the leagues best record? Selective read much?

2. I'm not angry at all..like I said, it's more of a medical significance. If you are truly ********, i'll go easier on you. I was just wondering..but obviously you took it seriously...which makes me wonder lol.

3. So Mo Williams actually makes the allstar team and you bash him. David Lee fails to make the allstar team and you praise him. Does it get any more biased than this? Perhaps if NY wasn't the absolute #1 joke of the league than they'd look at their players more seriously. It's hard to have a allstar caliber player when you have a high school caliber team. And do you honestly think a bunch of players who haven't played on a winning team the last few years, let alone make it anywhere int he playoffs, would be more dependable than an experienced cavs team that has been there before, even to the finals? If so, no need to answer the "******" question from before.

1. the cavs are a great regular season team, no doubt about it. mo williams plays great during the season, its the post season that he doesnt put up such great numbers. that league best record doesnt mean much when you get knocked out in the conference finals. so stop throwing out regular season achievements like they mean something.

2. i didnt bash mo williams talent, i questioned the way in which he reached the all star game. this great all star that you applaud the cavs front office for going out and getting only achieved such status through luck, and the fact that jameer nelson tore his labrum. you stated that the knicks didnt have any all star caliber players and i gave you an example of a guy with all star caliber stats. he had more double doubles than dwight howard.

3. i think a young up and coming team is more promising then an older team that has proven it cannot get the job done in the playoffs.

the cavs arent getting any younger, they have shown how well they can play in the post season and it doesn't look like they are going to be able to matchup against a magic team that can obviously beat them. all of the elite teams they faced this year they have a sub par record. see the magic and the lakers. its great that they have the best record in the league but when it comes to top level teams, those great front office acquisitions you love so much dont match up against teams like the lakers, magic or celtics.

dee279
06-01-2009, 12:05 AM
Brooklyn Nets Jersey. Jay Z will be happy.

koreancabbage
06-01-2009, 12:07 AM
That's the question. No this isn't another random LeBron thread, I genuinely would like to know what everyone thinks..

Personally, I think it betters their chances. Big market, coach that fits his style much better and New York right now has a much better supporting cast then Cleveland. I'd take Nate, Lee, Al Harrington, Wilson Chandler and Chris Duhon over the Cavs players minus LeBron anyday.

If LeBron ends next season empty handed, that's 7 seasons in he could not win a championship. Keep in mind SUPERHUMAN efforts in this playoffs could not even get him to the Finals. I think along with another superstar in New York (Amare or Bosh or Wade) - LeBron could win a boatload of championships - plus they have a much brighter future than Cleveland with Nate Robinson, David Lee, Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari and their 8th pick all being very young. All those guys, another superstar and LeBron would equal a perennial title contender for at least 8-10 years.
.

hell no.

dee279
06-01-2009, 12:12 AM
the knicks have a better roster right now then the cavs do.. Knicks win in the low 30s most years, this cavs teams wouldnt even win that without lebron

Yeah well u take the best player off any team, they will win less games. But thanks for stating the obvious.

gbizfoshiz
06-01-2009, 12:17 AM
1. At least I have regular season stats to throw out. New York has nothing but a championship they won over 30 years ago. And Mo Williams failing in the postseason only supports my argument that an inexperienced knicks team would fail together in the playoffs..and therefore would make a terrible supporting cast.

2. You do realize that defense is a part of basketball..right? Double doubles are fine and dandy...but they aren't necessarily looking for human pylons to play in the allstar game. And his numbers wouldn't be anywhere nearly as good if he was on a half decent team. He's a scrub surrounded by a bunch of scrubs...someone has to get the rebounds...and the Knicks have pretty much zero depth at Center, so that makes the decision easier. Put him on a team with some decent rebounders and it's a different story.

3. The cavs aren't getting any younger, but the knicks aren't getting any better. You can talk about the Cavs facing the elite teams, but at least they BELONG in that discussion. At least they are competitive. The only thing the Knicks have been competing for in the last 5 years is a draft spot...and they haven't even done that right. You can bash the Cavs all day if you like, but it just makes the Knicks look worse because they can't hold a candle to the cavs. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

Bottom line: The Knicks are absolutly terrible, and have been for a really long time. There is nothing that you have said or can possibly say that is going to change that. Your only hope is for the future, so you honestly should stop bashing the teams that are able to have winning seasons now. There is absolutly no excuse fitting for the #1 basketball city in the world to be this embarassing after all these years of rebuilding. They have no allstar players, have not had a winning season in years, and are simply sitting around and waiting for someone to care enough about them to save them from their embarassment..and so far nobody has cared. The East had a team with a losing record make the 8th spot this year..and the k nicks didn't have a legitimate shot at the spot. Perhaps you are better off resuming this discussion when your team is less of an embarassment...because I don't have time for you: my team is in the finals.

gbizfoshiz
06-01-2009, 12:32 AM
Lakers, Nuggets, Magic, Cavs, Knicks.

A few years ago none of these teams were significant conf. championship contenders. This year, four of these five teams played in the conf. championship series. Why is it that the team with biggest basketball market and the team that big name players are willing to ditch their contending teams for made absolutly no improvement during these years while the other 4 teams passed them by? And now you expect me to believe that thinks are suddenly going to change in the next year or two? Logic - use it.

Becks2307
06-01-2009, 12:32 AM
hell no.

lol are u kidding me

Lee >>> Z (Lee averaged 15 and 13 vs the magic)
Harrington >>>>>Varejao (Al averaged 20.1 ppg this year)
Chandler> West ( he averaged more pts than west and a better defender)

thats 3 of the five starters not to mention

Nate robinson (better than any 6th man on the cavs)
Danilo Gallinari > Wally Z

Becks2307
06-01-2009, 12:34 AM
Lakers, Nuggets, Magic, Cavs, Knicks.

A few years ago none of these teams were significant conf. championship contenders. This year, four of these five teams played in the conf. championship series. Why is it that the team with biggest basketball market and the team that big name players are willing to ditch their contending teams for made absolutly no improvement during these years while the other 4 teams passed them by? And now you expect me to believe that thinks are suddenly going to change in the next year or two? Logic - use it.

umm have you seen our management before D'Antoni and Walsh? are you kidding me ?! In one year Walsh has almost gotten rid of all of Isiah's mistakes. HE TRADED ZACH RANDOLPH...thats amazing

gbizfoshiz
06-01-2009, 12:38 AM
umm have you seen our management before D'Antoni and Walsh? are you kidding me ?! In one year Walsh has almost gotten rid of all of Isiah's mistakes. HE TRADED ZACH RANDOLPH...thats amazing

It's easier to get rid of players than to build a championship caliber team.

My stance on the Knicks: I'll believe it when I see it. But until than, they are one of the league's worst teams every year, so I really wish knicks fans would stop trying to convince me to look at them positively.

Don Starks
06-01-2009, 12:45 AM
1. At least I have regular season stats to throw out. New York has nothing but a championship they won over 30 years ago. And Mo Williams failing in the postseason only supports my argument that an inexperienced knicks team would fail together in the playoffs..and therefore would make a terrible supporting cast.

2. You do realize that defense is a part of basketball..right? Double doubles are fine and dandy...but they aren't necessarily looking for human pylons to play in the allstar game. And his numbers wouldn't be anywhere nearly as good if he was on a half decent team. He's a scrub surrounded by a bunch of scrubs...someone has to get the rebounds...and the Knicks have pretty much zero depth at Center, so that makes the decision easier. Put him on a team with some decent rebounders and it's a different story.

3. The cavs aren't getting any younger, but the knicks aren't getting any better. You can talk about the Cavs facing the elite teams, but at least they BELONG in that discussion. At least they are competitive. The only thing the Knicks have been competing for in the last 5 years is a draft spot...and they haven't even done that right. You can bash the Cavs all day if you like, but it just makes the Knicks look worse because they can't hold a candle to the cavs. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

Bottom line: The Knicks are absolutely terrible, and have been for a really long time. There is nothing that you have said or can possibly say that is going to change that. Your only hope is for the future, so you honestly should stop bashing the teams that are able to have winning seasons now. There is absolutely no excuse fitting for the #1 basketball city in the world to be this embarrassing after all these years of rebuilding. They have no allstar players, have not had a winning season in years, and are simply sitting around and waiting for someone to care enough about them to save them from their embarrassment..and so far nobody has cared. The East had a team with a losing record make the 8th spot this year..and the k nicks didn't have a legitimate shot at the spot. Perhaps you are better off resuming this discussion when your team is less of an embarrassment...because I don't have time for you: my team is in the finals.

1. how does mo williams failure in the playoffs prove anything about how the knicks will play? that might be one of the more ignorant things you have said all night.

2. here we go, "at least they are competitive" that is such garbage. with the caliber player lebron is they shouldn't be competitive they should be dominant. but i guess you just like making excuses for the cavs. how can you say the knicks havent drafted correctly? all the guys they have picked havent been in the league for more then a several years its impossible to tell how these guys will pan out. your just hating on the knicks.

3. you sitting here and stating how bad the kicks have been doesn't help your case with lebron. so what if the knicks werent good during the isaiah regime, he isnt working for the knicks anymore. and the knicks haven't been rebuilding for years, they actually just started last year. try to get your facts straight, when donnie walsh came to NY the rebuilding began. for a team that tore down its roster throughout the season i have to say they have a decent record. for the first time in years the front office has cleared enough cap space to get to max contracts, and like you stated before "the number 1 basketball city in the world" is open for business. which is all the more reason why Lebron will be tempted to leave the cavs.

4. apparently you do have time for me because you have been arguing with me for the last couple of hours, so stop trying to act like your time is so precious, cause its not.

geoffizfoshiz
06-01-2009, 03:04 AM
1. Is this really that hard to understand? Players with limited playoff experience are more prone to failure. Now, take a whole team with pretty much no playoff experience and you get absolute failure. I can't break it down for you any simplier, so get someone to help you.

2. Despite what you think SHOULD happen, having LeBron james does not gaurentee a championship. They did dominate until they met a team that was a terrible matchup for them. They dominate the regular season, they dominate the first two rounds, and than BOOM - bad matchup. Don't forget, the Bulls had Jordan and that didn't equal dominance or a championship every year he played. But i'm guessing you'll ignore this argument since it completly erases everything you've said.

3. Wrong. Very. Stating how bad the Knicks are DOES help my case that LeBron is not headed to NY. Remember the whole "He's not going from a contender to a losing team" line? The Knicks, being the embarassment that they are, is not the proper home for someone who wants to win as badly as LeBron does. If he cares enough about winning to leave the Cavs, than he's not going to go to NY just because it's a big market. They'd have a MUCh better chance if they weren't putting up 30 win seasons every year - that's my point...got it now? There are plenty of MUCH better teams that are capable of clearing the cap space by summer 2010, and if LeBron wants to win (which most people seem to think will be the reason he'll leve the league-leading cavs), than he'll choose a team that has won at least put together a winning season in the last 5 years. The number 1 city has been open for business for years, they've just been far too garbage to do anything.

4. I'll worry about my time and you worry about yours...k? Maybe you have 10 years to wait for your team to get somewhere, but for those of us who are smarter than that, it is just funhy to watch you get your hopes up.

aNYer
06-01-2009, 04:02 AM
Lakers, Nuggets, Magic, Cavs, Knicks.

A few years ago none of these teams were significant conf. championship contenders. This year, four of these five teams played in the conf. championship series. Why is it that the team with biggest basketball market and the team that big name players are willing to ditch their contending teams for made absolutly no improvement during these years while the other 4 teams passed them by? And now you expect me to believe that thinks are suddenly going to change in the next year or two? Logic - use it.

We have had horrible GMs and they have had us over the cap with crappy players, this means we can't sign any stars, and we didn't have good enough players to trade for a star. Logically that seems to make sense to me.

I am not interested in getting into a debate with any Cavs fan so I will ask a legitimate question, are you honestly happy with your team. Outside of landing Lebron, which is a no brainer, just like Rose this year anyone would have made that pick. Wallace is old, Z was slow before he was old and now he is old on top of that. Varejao is a nice hustle player, would be a great back up on almost any team but thats about all. Mo Williams is what he has been his whole career, Lebron lifted his stats enough for him to make the all star game but the playoffs where not an abrasion, its right inline with his stats, in terms of flashing ability and then crapping out. West is a nice 7th or 8th man off the bench. You guys have Lebron, but outside of that, with out an argument cause I am honestly not interested in that, what makes you happy about the team you have?



lol are u kidding me

Lee >>> Z (Lee averaged 15 and 13 vs the magic)
Harrington >>>>>Varejao (Al averaged 20.1 ppg this year)
Chandler> West ( he averaged more pts than west and a better defender)

thats 3 of the five starters not to mention

Nate robinson (better than any 6th man on the cavs)
Danilo Gallinari > Wally Z

I agree Becks, we have to see about Gallo but his stats were good in limited minutes and I just never liked Wally, don't see him as a winner. Z vs Lee would be closer with Z from a few years ago, Harrington is great when he isn't being an idiot, I think they might try to argue that on but he can score in so many different ways and is better on D then Anderson is on offense. Chandler will become a problem real soon. I don't think they have anyone to match Nate off the bench and probably not at all, call him a slam dunk champ if you want but his numbers are there, he does more then slam, again, jus needs to take a breath sometimes like Harrington.

Don Starks
06-01-2009, 04:09 AM
1. Is this really that hard to understand? Players with limited playoff experience are more prone to failure. Now, take a whole team with pretty much no playoff experience and you get absolute failure. I can't break it down for you any simpler, so get someone to help you.


2. Despite what you think SHOULD happen, having LeBron james does not guarantee a championship. They did dominate until they met a team that was a terrible matchup for them. They dominate the regular season, they dominate the first two rounds, and than BOOM - bad matchup. Don't forget, the Bulls had Jordan and that didn't equal dominance or a championship every year he played. But I'm guessing you'll ignore this argument since it completely erases everything you've said.

3. Wrong. Very. Stating how bad the Knicks are DOES help my case that LeBron is not headed to NY. Remember the whole "He's not going from a contender to a losing team" line? The Knicks, being the embarrassment that they are, is not the proper home for someone who wants to win as badly as LeBron does. If he cares enough about winning to leave the Cavs, than he's not going to go to NY just because it's a big market. They'd have a MUCh better chance if they weren't putting up 30 win seasons every year - that's my point...got it now? There are plenty of MUCH better teams that are capable of clearing the cap space by summer 2010, and if LeBron wants to win (which most people seem to think will be the reason he'll leave the league-leading cavs), than he'll choose a team that has won at least put together a winning season in the last 5 years. The number 1 city has been open for business for years, they've just been far too garbage to do anything.

4. I'll worry about my time and you worry about yours...k? Maybe you have 10 years to wait for your team to get somewhere, but for those of us who are smarter than that, it is just funny to watch you get your hopes up.

1. what about the magic this year? they had limited playoff experience, and they knocked off the cavs who have a ton of playoff experience. clearly you overate experience. or the celtics of last year? ray allen, garnett, and paul pierce were all great players that didnt have much playoff experience, they won a championship. your theory on experience is wrong.

2. so your blaming the fact that the cavs lost, on matchup problems? thats a weak excuse for a team that won 66 games and has the almighty playoff experience you hold so sacred. dont you think an elite team with playoff experience should be able to knock off a younger team with less experience? i mean that seems to be your train of thought. dont try and chalk this loss up to a bad matchup, the magic had more talent at every position other then small forward. the two teams that the cavs played before the magic had far less talent on their teams than the magic, as soon as the cavs ran into a team that consisted of more then one star they got whooped.
MJ and the bulls won 6 championships, thats pretty dominant. nowhere did i say lebron should win a championship every year, i said with talent like his, that whatever team he is on should dominate.

3. my argument is that the team around lebron is not better then the knicks current team. sure with lebron they look like contenders, without him they would rank below the knicks. i am not doubting that the knicks would have a better chance of landing lebron if they had more wins, thats obvious, but the knicks have enough money to land Lebron and another free agent and still maintain their current roster of young first rounders, who are more talented then the current lineup of role players the cavs have accumulated. thats my point. do you get it now? and again i will repeat this for you since it doesnt seem to be getting through to you. the knicks havent had cap space in years, therefore the Knicks have not been open to free agents. can i put that any more simply for you?

4. how does my loyalty to a team make me ignorant? at least i know i am not a bandwagon fan, which is the worst kind of fan....what team are you a fan of again?

Becks2307
06-01-2009, 04:13 AM
1. At least I have regular season stats to throw out. New York has nothing but a championship they won over 30 years ago. And Mo Williams failing in the postseason only supports my argument that an inexperienced knicks team would fail together in the playoffs..and therefore would make a terrible supporting cast.

2. You do realize that defense is a part of basketball..right? Double doubles are fine and dandy...but they aren't necessarily looking for human pylons to play in the allstar game. And his numbers wouldn't be anywhere nearly as good if he was on a half decent team. He's a scrub surrounded by a bunch of scrubs...someone has to get the rebounds...and the Knicks have pretty much zero depth at Center, so that makes the decision easier. Put him on a team with some decent rebounders and it's a different story.

3. The cavs aren't getting any younger, but the knicks aren't getting any better. You can talk about the Cavs facing the elite teams, but at least they BELONG in that discussion. At least they are competitive. The only thing the Knicks have been competing for in the last 5 years is a draft spot...and they haven't even done that right. You can bash the Cavs all day if you like, but it just makes the Knicks look worse because they can't hold a candle to the cavs. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

Bottom line: The Knicks are absolutly terrible, and have been for a really long time. There is nothing that you have said or can possibly say that is going to change that. Your only hope is for the future, so you honestly should stop bashing the teams that are able to have winning seasons now. There is absolutly no excuse fitting for the #1 basketball city in the world to be this embarassing after all these years of rebuilding. They have no allstar players, have not had a winning season in years, and are simply sitting around and waiting for someone to care enough about them to save them from their embarassment..and so far nobody has cared. The East had a team with a losing record make the 8th spot this year..and the knicks didn't have a legitimate shot at the spot. Perhaps you are better off resuming this discussion when your team is less of an embarassment...because I don't have time for you: my team is in the finals.


1. Like the Bulls this year right ? You dont know the psychological makeup of the Knicks players. Stop making assumptions.

2. How is David Lee a scrub. Do you think Anderson Varejao or Z could lead the league in double doubles if they played for the Knicks instead of Lee ? David Lee averaged a double double off the bench one season, he is not a scrub at all. Fact is, he is one of the best rebounders in the league despite being 6"9 and playing vs players taller than him EVERY night

3. How are the Knicks not getting any better ? they improved their record by 10 wins. Finally have a team than can play together not to mention they were in pretty much EVERY game this season. And we havent drafted well ? David Lee = #30 overall, Wilson Chandler # 23 overall.

4. So because his team is not in the playoffs he can't comment on another team that is ? Arent we basketball fans first ? So when a team has a losing season their fans arent allowed to criticize teams who have winning ones ? right...

And the Knicks didnt have a shot at the playoffs ? what league were you watching ? we were about 1 game back with two weeks to go.

Becks2307
06-01-2009, 04:17 AM
We have had horrible GMs and they have had us over the cap with crappy players, this means we can't sign any stars, and we didn't have good enough players to trade for a star. Logically that seems to make sense to me.

I am not interested in getting into a debate with any Cavs fan so I will ask a legitimate question, are you honestly happy with your team. Outside of landing Lebron, which is a no brainer, just like Rose this year anyone would have made that pick. Wallace is old, Z was slow before he was old and now he is old on top of that. Varejao is a nice hustle player, would be a great back up on almost any team but thats about all. Mo Williams is what he has been his whole career, Lebron lifted his stats enough for him to make the all star game but the playoffs where not an abrasion, its right inline with his stats, in terms of flashing ability and then crapping out. West is a nice 7th or 8th man off the bench. You guys have Lebron, but outside of that, with out an argument cause I am honestly not interested in that, what makes you happy about the team you have?




I agree Becks, we have to see about Gallo but his stats were good in limited minutes and I just never liked Wally, don't see him as a winner. Z vs Lee would be closer with Z from a few years ago, Harrington is great when he isn't being an idiot, I think they might try to argue that on but he can score in so many different ways and is better on D then Anderson is on offense. Chandler will become a problem real soon. I don't think they have anyone to match Nate off the bench and probably not at all, call him a slam dunk champ if you want but his numbers are there, he does more then slam, again, jus needs to take a breath sometimes like Harrington.

Totally Agree. People (including some Knick fans ) seem to forget how good nate Robinson is. He can flat out score. the fact is for alot of the season he was our number one option and he delivered (maybe not as consistently as we would have liked) but he did none the less. The Cavs have no secondary scorer like Nate.

julio
06-01-2009, 04:21 AM
he probably already wants out.go to chicago though.

aNYer
06-01-2009, 04:27 AM
Totally Agree. People (including some Knick fans ) seem to forget how good nate Robinson is. He can flat out score. the fact is for alot of the season he was our number one option and he delivered (maybe not as consistently as we would have liked) but he did none the less. The Cavs have no secondary scorer like Nate.

I will admit I am off his bandwagon but only because if we don't sign him we have the cap room for a max and flexibility, that is too tempting for me.

Becks2307
06-01-2009, 04:29 AM
I will admit I am off his bandwagon but only because if we don't sign him we have the cap room for a max and flexibility, that is too tempting for me.

dont get me wrong lol. I'm off the bandwagon too (unless he asks for like 3mil) but when he was on..he was on

Boston Faithful
06-01-2009, 05:02 AM
There is a HUGE difference between a team that reaches the Conf Finals and has won the Conf Finals the last few years, and a team that can't manage a playoff spot in the worst the east has been in years. At least the Cavs were in the fight....the Knicks have been an embarassment for years.....when is the last time they even managed a winning record? And all these years of big moves and draft picks have been a waste of time and really showed off the ignorance of the front office. At one point, both the cavs and the knicks were crappy teams. The Cavs did something about it and the Knicks continued to be an embarassment.

Want to know how to tell the Knicks are currently terrible? The only thing you can say positive about them is that they won a championship 30 years ago lol. Honestly, I'm not even a Cavs fan, so you can insult them all you want and talk about how they haven't won any championships. But one question: is cleveland the number 1 market for basketball? No...didn't think so. You want to talk embarassment? How about a team playing in a city that cares the most about basketball, and not being able to put together a winning season? The fact that players aren't trying to get into cleveland only makes the knicks look worse lol..that point actually works against you. They aren't a hotspot for basketball, yet they have managed to have more success than the Knicks have had in 10 years. embarassing.

I'd love to see the Cavs without LeBron, they would not win 33 games like the Knicks did. David Lee and Nate Robinson are far better than any players on the Cavs minus LeBron. Plus there is an extreme likelihood Amare or Bosh would join him in NY. There is no chance of them going to Cleveland. If the Knicks even get Amare to join their current cast, they are immediately a 45 win team.

dos132
06-01-2009, 05:30 AM
lebrom on NY will be nice....

colinskik
06-01-2009, 11:04 AM
This geoffizfoshiz character is a complete moron and sounds like a foolish child.

The Knicks, starting last year, finally had the opportunity to clear the terrible stank that the previous administration left behind. It's not easy undoing all those awful mistakes and Donnie actually managed to clear a great deal of it. It's inevitable he'll pull some more moves that will either get rid of some of the leftovers (Curry, Jeffries, etc.), clear up more cap space or do both.

It's no secret that the Knicks are not an elite team, but they've been working to set up a team that if you add in a superstar (or two), which the Knicks unbiasedly have no player close to superstar status, then the team would actually be scary.

bedford1829
06-01-2009, 11:38 AM
Lebron's all about Lebron.

Contrary to the squeaky clean image of Lebron that has been created by the ESPN Media whore, he is selfish and self-absorbed. He cares about his legacy more than anything else. That legacy will not be secure until he competes on the biggest stage. Who wants to be remembered for being a Cleveland Cavalier. Its the big markets that carry the biggest legacies... The New Yorks, Bostons, and LA's of the world.

Lebron will go to New York mark my words.
That way he can hang with Jay-Z

geoffizfoshiz
06-01-2009, 11:52 AM
1. This is the third straight year that Orlando has made the playoffs...which is experienced. And the fact that they are now in the finals shows the importance of experience. It's not a coincidence that they go a little further each year - they add pieces and gain experience, that's how it works. The Knicks on the other hand have zero experience, and even if my some miracle they make the playoffs anytime soon, my guess is it will be a disaster. And btw, Garnett, Pierce and Allen all have significant playoff experience. I'm not saying you need 5-10 years...but they've definitly both been there and it showed to anyone who knows anything about basketball. And that is why they added players like Sam Cassell and PJ Brown. They don't just add these players to weight down the bench. They add them for experience.

2. Isn't it obvious? They had the leagues best record and swept the first wo rounds of the playoffs but went 3-6 against this particular team overall this year. To me that screams of matchup problems. And here is a link supporting this (http://www.newsobserver.com/2191/story/1537762.html). So please don't waste my time when you are obviously wrong. MJ's team didn't dominate every year. So your comment that the leagues best player with so much talent should dominate with whatever team he is on is false. He didn't win until he got a top 50 of all time on his team. To expect team dominance just because one player has loads of talent shoiws that you know absolutly nothing about basketball. Where was Kobe a few years ago? Best player in the league but his team missed the playoffs and than lost in the first round twice in a row. Just because you have a top player doesn't mean your team will dominate.

3. I disagree...like I said I value experience, and the Cavs have 3 former allstars on their team while the Knicks just have players that biased knicks fans THINK should be allstars. But this is inarguable so we'll have to agree to disagree. The only clear fact is that the Cavs are a contender every year and the Knicks suck every year. And they haven't had cap space because they are the stupidest team in NBA history. Wasn't it you who blamed the Cavs for cap space problems? Really shows off your bias when you critisize one team for something but your team is the poster-team for it.

4. When exactly did I call you ignorant? Did I even type that word in this topic at all? Your right, your not a bandwagon fan...i never said you were so I don't even know why you are telling me this right now. It's pretty obvious that if you are a Knicks fan at this point in their embarassing state that you aren't a bandwagon fan. But kind of a pointless thing to say.

JayW_1023
06-01-2009, 11:55 AM
I'm really getting annoyed by all the scrutinizing LeBron gets...sure, it probably wasn't very smart to leave immediately after game 6...but don't pretend Kobe was a saint either after he backstabbed his teammates in the media before last season and demanded a trade. Kobe had three titles...and after two mediocre years of 1st round exits he started impatiently crying foul.

Well until this season, LeBron has had a mediocre team around him his entire career. While this years Cavs team had great chemistry and competitiveness...they lacked the talent to compete for a championship. LeBrons play was the reason they overachieved. No matter how good LeBron is...no player, not even Kobe or MJ can single handedly carry a team to an NBA championship.

At least give LeBron the courtesy for still be willing to build on this years success, despite the fact that it's the upteenth time he didn't get sufficient help to win a championship. Sure, he was immature for leaving early, but he is still 24 years old and his entire career he has been put under a microscope for every action he takes. Give him a ****ing break when for once he cracks under the pressure.

In a country where cheaters like Barry Bonds and Alex rodriguez continue to be hailed...it's unbelievable how LeBron gets such hatred when he doesn't live up to expectations...with all the media and fans in Cleveland pressuring him to perform. You bet he is disappointed....you bet he is human.

You have seen Kobe mature and wise up as well when he once again got the pieces to make the Lakers contenders again, and he is finally showing he can lead a team by example. Give LeBron some more talent...and I'm sure he can do the same. What he did may not be right, or even sportsmanlike...but for a star in his position, carrying his team and leaving it all on the floor with all the pressure on him...it's tough not to emphasize with him.

geoffizfoshiz
06-01-2009, 12:03 PM
1. Like the Bulls this year right ? You dont know the psychological makeup of the Knicks players. Stop making assumptions.

2. How is David Lee a scrub. Do you think Anderson Varejao or Z could lead the league in double doubles if they played for the Knicks instead of Lee ? David Lee averaged a double double off the bench one season, he is not a scrub at all. Fact is, he is one of the best rebounders in the league despite being 6"9 and playing vs players taller than him EVERY night

3. How are the Knicks not getting any better ? they improved their record by 10 wins. Finally have a team than can play together not to mention they were in pretty much EVERY game this season. And we havent drafted well ? David Lee = #30 overall, Wilson Chandler # 23 overall.

4. So because his team is not in the playoffs he can't comment on another team that is ? Arent we basketball fans first ? So when a team has a losing season their fans arent allowed to criticize teams who have winning ones ? right...

And the Knicks didnt have a shot at the playoffs ? what league were you watching ? we were about 1 game back with two weeks to go.

1. 1st round loss = fail. Sure it was a good effort...but lack of experience results in not being able to win the big game when it counts.

2. I think pretty much any legitimate staring power forward or center in the league would experience huge number increases if they played on the Knicks. Especially with so many missed shots.

3. After all these years of being terrible, they should have a Derrick Rose, Chris Paul, or Kevin Durant caliber player by now...possibly even several of them. The draft is designed to make bad teams good. If these same bad teams are consistantly bad than I got no choice but to think they are drafting terrible.

4. The claim that only one player would make the difference been one of the worst eams in East and the top team in the East is rediculous. I dont' care if that player is LeBron or MJ himself. Boston added 3 amazing players last year and still struggled through most of the playoffs before winning. And to be a fan of a team that is one of hte worst in the league every year and critisize the top team for having a weaker roster is a stupid comment.

geoffizfoshiz
06-01-2009, 12:07 PM
This geoffizfoshiz character is a complete moron and sounds like a foolish child.

The Knicks, starting last year, finally had the opportunity to clear the terrible stank that the previous administration left behind. It's not easy undoing all those awful mistakes and Donnie actually managed to clear a great deal of it. It's inevitable he'll pull some more moves that will either get rid of some of the leftovers (Curry, Jeffries, etc.), clear up more cap space or do both.

It's no secret that the Knicks are not an elite team, but they've been working to set up a team that if you add in a superstar (or two), which the Knicks unbiasedly have no player close to superstar status, then the team would actually be scary.

Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. All these years of coaching changes and big trades has left me believing that New York is incapable of competing any time soon.

And it sounds like people think that New York is doing things that other terrible teams in the league aren't doing. But in reality, pretty much every terrible team would be WAY better with LeBron, and many of the terrible teams have better stars to surround LeBron with. So why the Knicks? Because he'll make more money? I dont' think he's that type of player.

geoffizfoshiz
06-01-2009, 12:14 PM
Totally Agree. People (including some Knick fans ) seem to forget how good nate Robinson is. He can flat out score. the fact is for alot of the season he was our number one option and he delivered (maybe not as consistently as we would have liked) but he did none the less. The Cavs have no secondary scorer like Nate.

Are you serious?

Mo Williams: 17.8 ppg 46% fg and 43% 3 pointers.

Nate Williams: 17.2 ppg 43% fg and 32% 3 pointers.

And Williams playes on a team with a 30 point scorer. Which is far more impressive than being able to score on a team where pretty much nobody excells offensively.

Do people honestly think they can make posts like this and nobody is going to call them on it?

WickedBadMan
06-01-2009, 12:20 PM
All of you who are arbitrarily removing L. James from the Cavaliers and going, "Oh well the Knicks would be better than the Cavaliers!!!" have to realize it would then make sense to remove the Knicks best player right? Like honestly, what a stupid argument.

geoffizfoshiz
06-01-2009, 12:24 PM
I am not interested in getting into a debate with any Cavs fan so I will ask a legitimate question, are you honestly happy with your team. Outside of landing Lebron, which is a no brainer, just like Rose this year anyone would have made that pick. Wallace is old, Z was slow before he was old and now he is old on top of that. Varejao is a nice hustle player, would be a great back up on almost any team but thats about all. Mo Williams is what he has been his whole career, Lebron lifted his stats enough for him to make the all star game but the playoffs where not an abrasion, its right inline with his stats, in terms of flashing ability and then crapping out. West is a nice 7th or 8th man off the bench. You guys have Lebron, but outside of that, with out an argument cause I am honestly not interested in that, what makes you happy about the team you have?

I'm not a Cavs fan, and I have stated this several times and that my fav team is in the finals. So you can sit here and discredit the number 1 team in the regular season all day if you'd like, but I couldn't care less.

Ben Wallace is still an excellent interior defender and the Cavs were one of the leagues best defensive teams - I don't call that a coincidence. And even still, they got him for another year (possibly) and than 14 mill will come off the books just in time for the 2010 free agency.

Z had his best year since his Allstar season. He's still one of the top centers in the East.

Every winning teams needs a player like Varejao. He's a player who knows his role and doesn't try to play outside of it.

Mo Williams fell under the pressure. He went from one of the leagues worst teams to being the team that everyone was banking on to be in the finals, and he was expected to be the deciding factor after LeBron. You can disagree if you like, but that is extreme pressure in my opinion. His playoff performance will improve every year.

xabial
06-01-2009, 12:28 PM
Lakers, Nuggets, Magic, Cavs, Knicks.

A few years ago none of these teams were significant conf. championship contenders. This year, four of these five teams played in the conf. championship series. Why is it that the team with biggest basketball market and the team that big name players are willing to ditch their contending teams for made absolutly no improvement during these years while the other 4 teams passed them by? And now you expect me to believe that thinks are suddenly going to change in the next year or two? Logic - use it.

I thought it was abvious. A complete idiot was running this organization whose philosphy was "Trade away young talent + draft picks for bad long contracts" and this has been the philosophy of NY for the past 2 general managers. Dont blame us, blame management, and if anything you have nothing on the fans to bash about. For you to be a fan of the knicks in these times means you've got the most dedicated fans in the world and not some frontrunner fans who like just leBron James. Knicks have got great history too, and even though we only won 2 championships, there has been no doubt we have been competitive in the 80s, and 90s in the Patrick Ewing Era
How many championships does the cavaliers have? Any history besides lebron James?

aNYer
06-01-2009, 12:58 PM
Are you serious?

Mo Williams: 17.8 ppg 46% fg and 43% 3 pointers.

Nate Williams: 17.2 ppg 43% fg and 32% 3 pointers.

And Williams playes on a team with a 30 point scorer. Which is far more impressive than being able to score on a team where pretty much nobody excells offensively.

Do people honestly think they can make posts like this and nobody is going to call them on it?

oh, good point except that the knicks outscored the cavs 97 to 105.
Nate -17.2 a game, Williams= 16.3

nobody excelled except that Harrington averaged 20.7 and Lee averaged 17.2, where as you have West at 13.8 and Z at 10.5 who were your only other double digit scorers, the Knicks had Chandler at over 14, Hughes at over 11, Duhon 11, and Q rich at over 10. So actually Nate scored more on a better scoring team, did you really think no one would call you out on just saying your team was better scoring when outside of James you are not a good scoring team at all, your at best shooters around Lebron and not elite at that, and we are rebuilding, you guys are what you will be because you guys believe you have a championship caliber team.

EDIT: Admittedly this is leaving their top scorer but you can't tell me that you think everyone elses production would not decrease with out James and for those that want to take out best player if we take James the Cavs are losing 35 points and the reason for a lot of the teams point, we are losing 20 points, this just widens the gap.

aNYer
06-01-2009, 01:05 PM
I'm not a Cavs fan, and I have stated this several times and that my fav team is in the finals. So you can sit here and discredit the number 1 team in the regular season all day if you'd like, but I couldn't care less.

Ben Wallace is still an excellent interior defender and the Cavs were one of the leagues best defensive teams - I don't call that a coincidence. And even still, they got him for another year (possibly) and than 14 mill will come off the books just in time for the 2010 free agency.

Z had his best year since his Allstar season. He's still one of the top centers in the East.

Every winning teams needs a player like Varejao. He's a player who knows his role and doesn't try to play outside of it.

Mo Williams fell under the pressure. He went from one of the leagues worst teams to being the team that everyone was banking on to be in the finals, and he was expected to be the deciding factor after LeBron. You can disagree if you like, but that is extreme pressure in my opinion. His playoff performance will improve every year.


Wallace and Z are past their prime and will only increase as a defensice liability. I agree about Varajao but like I said, he can be the 1st big off the bench but not a great 6th man. Mo Williams will not improve, this is just my opinion vs yours obviously but his whole career has been flash and burn. He has shown flashes of talent all the time and flounders all the time. I don't think he cracked under pressure I just think it is who he is. They are a good team thanks to Lebron but they have a losing record against the teams they THINK they are in contention with for a title. I just don't see them winning a championship team with this squad and I just don't get the hype past James.

chin chukwu
06-01-2009, 01:34 PM
lebron has a huge nike contract, tons and tons of commercials, and is one of the highest paid players in the league. so, if goes anywhere, it definitely won't be for the money. lebron james will not win a title in new york!!!...epecially with mike d'antoni as coach.
i think he will/should stay in cleveland. i think the cavs have a lot of the right pieces to win a title. the one thing that they don't have is a solid low-post scorer/defender with size. it's pretty much the only reason why they lost to magic. i almost certain that they address this in the off-season.

colinskik
06-01-2009, 02:33 PM
All of you who are arbitrarily removing L. James from the Cavaliers and going, "Oh well the Knicks would be better than the Cavaliers!!!" have to realize it would then make sense to remove the Knicks best player right? Like honestly, what a stupid argument.
That's the point -- the Knicks don't have that "best player" and anyone who they would scrap from their current roster for their 2010 plan wouldn't be such a loss (D Lee is arguable -- his stats are a mirage IMO, although he still is a decent player either as a role player or bench player, pretty much a better Varejao).

Also, in terms of the similarities of Mo Williams and Nate, Nate was not a stater most of the season and Mo was their #2, so if they have similar stats than that can only be another argument as to why NY can surround LeBron with better talent.

Becks2307
06-01-2009, 06:26 PM
All of you who are arbitrarily removing L. James from the Cavaliers and going, "Oh well the Knicks would be better than the Cavaliers!!!" have to realize it would then make sense to remove the Knicks best player right? Like honestly, what a stupid argument.

knicks best player is wilson chandler remove him if you want.

And why would we have to remove our best player? There arent rumors of the knicks's best player going to the Cavs. If Lebron James comes to NY its definitely won't be a trade he would be slotted into the lineup.

MPScribbles
06-01-2009, 06:53 PM
Yet another forum where knicks fans spout off about how the basketball elite the world over can't wait to play for the knicks. Maybe in this thread someone will answer the question I asked in the last one:

Will one of you please tell me when is the last time that NY signed a premier player in free agency? Please back up your claims that NY has this huge drawing power to attract these superstars that will soon be flocking to MSG.

Becks2307
06-01-2009, 07:21 PM
Yet another forum where knicks fans spout off about how the basketball elite the world over can't wait to play for the knicks. Maybe in this thread someone will answer the question I asked in the last one:

Will one of you please tell me when is the last time that NY signed a premier player in free agency? Please back up your claims that NY has this huge drawing power to attract these superstars that will soon be flocking to MSG.

when was the last time the knicks had money when a free agent was available ?

Missing56&33
06-01-2009, 07:30 PM
Not only will the Cavs lose next year in the playoffs they are going to get swept and Lebron will leave his beloved team with a bitter taste in his mouth. Lets look at reality here. Superstars in the NBA are just that STARS. What do stars want to do? Shine!!!
Lebron loves the attention associated with being a world wide known sports figure. These guys love the camera, the fame and money but no one wants to be a loser on the biggest stage in basketball.

Not only will the Knicks make a pitch for Lebron it will be one he couldn't pass up. Whining and dining in the best restaurants NYC has to offer, tour of the city, VIP treatment all the way. His choice of living style whether its a penthouse in Manhattan or a mansion in Hampton's, Lebron will live like a KING...literally.

Never a dull moment, always in the spotlight. Starting lineups will generate so much excitement you would think its a playoff game in the regular season. The man would get an applause every time he gets up off the bench to come into the game. He would literally be KING of NY. He would have a coach and GM in place that has the ability to produce a championship caliber team. With all due respect. Mike Brown and Danny Ferry dont have what it takes and that has been evident thus far.

Its fun when your rolling through the playoffs sweeping teams and heading toward a championship. The attention he was getting, with the underhand shots and circus shots while the camera and spotlight was focused in on him, he loves the attention. NY is a big media circus and the cameras media, the world will be focused in on Lebron.

I think thats what he wants along with his championship, he cant get that in Cleveland.

{}
06-01-2009, 08:30 PM
Perhaps he has no choice but to leave if he wants to win, but going to a team that hasn't won in about a decade isn't the answer. New York doesn't know how to win. At least Danny Ferry has done something with his cap space. He's build a team that headlined the NBA all season. New York is a draft team every year. Why would LeBron believe it would be any different if he came there?

NY has a far more talented roster 2 thru 12 than the Cavs. NY is simply lacking a superstar to be the engine and make the rest of the parts work.


New York loses and loses big every year. The East is terrible and even teams with terrible records can make it in at the lower seeds. The fact that New York hasn't been able to claim a 7th or 8th spot is humiliating. You can't possibily convince me that LeBron should abandon an experienced team that had the leagues best record this year for a team that has been terrible for the last ten years and have basically done nothing but wait for him.

And please dont' try and convince me that LeBron + Hughes will make a good team. It was a disaster in Cleveland, it sure as hell won't work in a city that obviously don't know anything about winning basketball.

Again, NY lacks a dominant leader on the court and obviously suffers as a result. Lebron would change the team overnight. Hughes is crap but there's about 7 players on the Knicks roster better than him. The fact Hughes was expected to be the 2nd best on the Cavs is an embarrassing testament of where things stand in Cleveland.



New York is the embarassment of the NBA and has been since Patrick Ewing left. Nobody wants to go there or else at least one of the many NBA superstars would be there.


Fairy and the Cavs are repeating the same mistake. NY's problems had nothing to do with free agents not wanting to play for them. It had to do with several years of mismanagement by the GM who crippled the franchise with bad contracts; basically, what Fairy has been doing for years. Forget any key offseason acquisitions, the Cavs have below to average players who are absurdly overpaid with contracts that no GM in their right mind would touch.


You don't leave a winning team for an embarassment.

This attitude of yours is exactly why Lebron will leave the Cavs. Fans like you take defeat with a smile on your face and consider the season a job well done b/c of superficial nonsense. Do you think Lebron shares your satisifaction about a meaningless division banner, media exposure, and the hype and excitement of the regular season? The playoffs seperate the pretenders from the contenders, and it's painfully obvious Lebron is surrounded by regular season pretenders who are woefully out of their depth come playoff time. This point seems lost with a Cav organization and its media and fans who are just happy to be in the limelight. No longer are they having to endure the old perennial image of an average and very boring franchise.

Likewise, Fairy is obviously satisified with all the attention he gets thanks to Lebron. He takes all the credit for Lebron and isn't held accountable for the state of the rest of the roster. Mike Brown is satisified with his absurd Coach Of The Year award, which Lebron won him. The Cavs players are satisified with all the unwarranted hype and attention they received during the regular season for just being Lebron's teammate.

Meanwhile, the guy who does all the heavy lifting for the team seems to be the only one questioning Fairy's competence as GM, and the toughness and mentality of the rest of the team. The bottom line is Lebron is too big for the Cavs. Lebron needs an organization that will put their GM on the hot seat and hold him accountable. A team which is willing to spend as much, do whatever it takes, to give Lebron a roster worthy of his greatness.

NY isn't amateur hour and offers a bigger stage for Lebron and will supply him with the supporting cast he needs. Likewise, NY fans and media will share Lebron's passion to win a championship. No more small time satisifiation with superficial accolades and making excuses for the coach, GM, and supporting cast for losing.

IMO, thats why Lebron was pissed off. His actions after the game weren't directed at Orlando, but his own team. He didn't want to join his teammate losers congregating at midcourt with hugs, kisses, smiles, and happy just to be there.

D-Leethal
06-01-2009, 09:32 PM
NY has a far more talented roster 2 thru 12 than the Cavs. NY is simply lacking a superstar to be the engine and make the rest of the parts work.

Again, NY lacks a dominant leader on the court and obviously suffers as a result. Lebron would change the team overnight. Hughes is crap but there's about 7 players on the Knicks roster better than him. The fact Hughes was expected to be the 2nd best on the Cavs is an embarrassing testament of where things stand in Cleveland.



Fairy and the Cavs are repeating the same mistake. NY's problems had nothing to do with free agents not wanting to play for them. It had to do with several years of mismanagement by the GM who crippled the franchise with bad contracts; basically, what Fairy has been doing for years. Forget any key offseason acquisitions, the Cavs have below to average players who are absurdly overpaid with contracts that no GM in their right mind would touch.



This attitude of yours is exactly why Lebron will leave the Cavs. Fans like you take defeat with a smile on your face and consider the season a job well done b/c of superficial nonsense. Do you think Lebron shares your satisifaction about a meaningless division banner, media exposure, and the hype and excitement of the regular season? The playoffs seperate the pretenders from the contenders, and it's painfully obvious Lebron is surrounded by regular season pretenders who are woefully out of their depth come playoff time. This point seems lost with a Cav organization and its media and fans who are just happy to be in the limelight. No longer are they having to endure the old perennial image of an average and very boring franchise.

Likewise, Fairy is obviously satisified with all the attention he gets thanks to Lebron. He takes all the credit for Lebron and isn't held accountable for the state of the rest of the roster. Mike Brown is satisified with his absurd Coach Of The Year award, which Lebron won him. The Cavs players are satisified with all the unwarranted hype and attention they received during the regular season for just being Lebron's teammate.

Meanwhile, the guy who does all the heavy lifting for the team seems to be the only one questioning Fairy's competence as GM, and the toughness and mentality of the rest of the team. The bottom line is Lebron is too big for the Cavs. Lebron needs an organization that will put their GM on the hot seat and hold him accountable. A team which is willing to spend as much, do whatever it takes, to give Lebron a roster worthy of his greatness.

NY isn't amateur hour and offers a bigger stage for Lebron and will supply him with the supporting cast he needs. Likewise, NY fans and media will share Lebron's passion to win a championship. No more small time satisifiation with superficial accolades and making excuses for the coach, GM, and supporting cast for losing.

IMO, thats why Lebron was pissed off. His actions after the game weren't directed at Orlando, but his own team. He didn't want to join his teammate losers congregating at midcourt with hugs, kisses, smiles, and happy just to be there.

perfectly summed up.....thank you my friend, you made my night

J$mo0th_3o5
06-01-2009, 09:53 PM
I just came out of my time machine and Lebron is not going to the Knicks....... He's going to the HEAT:cool:

cmstophe
06-01-2009, 09:54 PM
IMO, thats why Lebron was pissed off. His actions after the game weren't directed at Orlando, but his own team. He didn't want to join his teammate losers congregating at midcourt with hugs, kisses, smiles, and happy just to be there.

And you are...Gloria James? Savannah? Who are you? Jay Z?

Oh, you're just some kid on a message board.

I dunno what james will do but I hope he stays with the Cavs.

29$JerZ
06-01-2009, 09:59 PM
I just came out of my time machine and Lebron is going to the Knicks....... He's going to heat up the Garden and bring them a championship plus many more:cool:

Fixed :D

BTownTeamsRKing
06-01-2009, 10:47 PM
are people seriously comparing the knicks to the cavs? is this a joke?

i hate cleveland and i know they were very good, just not nearly as good as people thought. the knicks have and still suck. they are so far from a championship. seriously? nate robinson, david lee, and chandler is your core and u expect to one day win a title with that? be real.

as for the Cavs.

Lebron = Great.
Mo = overrated. no an allstar but still way better than robinson. dont give me stupid PPG numbers. everyone knows the cavs blew away teams and held them to under 85 pts many times, so why would Mo score a crazy amount?

Z = old. slow, but can shoot. sucks defensively.
Big Ben = Finised. he cant do anything any more than a hustling PF with some knowlede of defense.

West = nice complementary player, but never going to be great. still better than 95% of the knicks.

cavs may be declining, but they will still pound the knicks next year.

dos132
06-01-2009, 11:07 PM
maybe it may affect lebrons decision of going to NY.. and china is the minority owner of cav's now.

Ovratd1up
06-01-2009, 11:09 PM
Why is it only the Knicks? He would have a MUCH better team/future in New Jersey or Chicago for that matter.

aNYer
06-01-2009, 11:23 PM
when was the last time the knicks had money when a free agent was available ?

psshhh, facts?

Miami_Megatron
06-01-2009, 11:51 PM
All i know is that the Cavs can kiss LJ *** all they want but he's as good as gone!!

cmstophe
06-02-2009, 12:25 AM
are people seriously comparing the knicks to the cavs? is this a joke?

i hate cleveland and i know they were very good, just not nearly as good as people thought. the knicks have and still suck. they are so far from a championship. seriously? nate robinson, david lee, and chandler is your core and u expect to one day win a title with that? be real.

as for the Cavs.

Lebron = Great.
Mo = overrated. no an allstar but still way better than robinson. dont give me stupid PPG numbers. everyone knows the cavs blew away teams and held them to under 85 pts many times, so why would Mo score a crazy amount?

Z = old. slow, but can shoot. sucks defensively.
Big Ben = Finised. he cant do anything any more than a hustling PF with some knowlede of defense.

West = nice complementary player, but never going to be great. still better than 95% of the knicks.

cavs may be declining, but they will still pound the knicks next year.

I think Mo is UNDERRATED, actually. I think if he wanted to he could put up better numbers, maybe 20 Ppg playing with LeBron, eventually. He is a great shooter that has improved every year, and a dead eye FTer.

I know he disappeared in the ECF but that can be attributed to a few factors, including that it's the biggest stage he ever went on (and still, he did have one dynamite game in the series)

Still, I think he's a 3rd option and the Cavs need to find a legit #2.

I think some of you are kidding yourselves listing out Cleveland's players right now and pretending that it's the team they will have by the end of next season.

I do have to ask, why do you hate Cleveland so much? Or do you mean, you hate the Cavs, as a rival?

nyanks79
06-02-2009, 12:48 AM
are people seriously comparing the knicks to the cavs? is this a joke?

i hate cleveland and i know they were very good, just not nearly as good as people thought. the knicks have and still suck. they are so far from a championship. seriously? nate robinson, david lee, and chandler is your core and u expect to one day win a title with that? be real.

as for the Cavs.

Lebron = Great.
Mo = overrated. no an allstar but still way better than robinson. dont give me stupid PPG numbers. everyone knows the cavs blew away teams and held them to under 85 pts many times, so why would Mo score a crazy amount?

Z = old. slow, but can shoot. sucks defensively.
Big Ben = Finised. he cant do anything any more than a hustling PF with some knowlede of defense.

West = nice complementary player, but never going to be great. still better than 95% of the knicks.

cavs may be declining, but they will still pound the knicks next year.

The cavs will beat the Knicks year because of Lebron. If Lebron wasnt on that team the Knicks could beat them this year, and definatly would beat them in 2010. Chandler is better than west. Lee is better than Varajo. Eddy Curry is alot younger and is a solid low post player and alot better future than Z. Al harrington has already said he would take a cut to come back to the knicks in 2010. And Harrington is better than anyone coming off the Cavs bench. I havent even said Gallinari who problably has the brightest future being 6 10 and is a knock down 3 point shooter. And most likley the Knicks will be able to sign another FA. So Bosh/Amare or Mo. And you can also throw are 8th pick in there. In 2010 if Lebron wasnt on either team, who would win? Ill take the Knicks.
Your saying the Cavs are better with Lebron. But what if Lebron was on the Knicks. Then could they win a championship? Add Lebron to the Knicks team in 2010, they are easily top 3 in the East.

J$mo0th_3o5
06-02-2009, 02:25 AM
Fixed :D

:laugh2:Good one

MrBloop
06-02-2009, 05:00 AM
Are you serious?

Mo Williams: 17.8 ppg 46% fg and 43% 3 pointers.

Nate Williams: 17.2 ppg 43% fg and 32% 3 pointers.

And Williams playes on a team with a 30 point scorer. Which is far more impressive than being able to score on a team where pretty much nobody excells offensively.

Do people honestly think they can make posts like this and nobody is going to call them on it?

Mo Williams is soft like krispie cream donuts. At least Nate takes the ball to the fkn cup, this fool is just a gunner...JUST A GUNNER.

He had a great year until the stakes got high, and he resorted back to being what he is, a fringe allstar type player at best.

Forgive some Cavs fans for thinking he was a legit #2 option (when he's a #3 clearly), they know not what they do. He's a down right horrible defender...disgustingly bad.

Nate brings more to the table overall offensively, but he's not as polished a player as MO.

Stop sleeping on Nate tho.

MrBloop
06-02-2009, 05:04 AM
are people seriously comparing the knicks to the cavs? is this a joke?

i hate cleveland and i know they were very good, just not nearly as good as people thought. the knicks have and still suck. they are so far from a championship. seriously? nate robinson, david lee, and chandler is your core and u expect to one day win a title with that? be real.

as for the Cavs.

Lebron = Great.
Mo = overrated. no an allstar but still way better than robinson. dont give me stupid PPG numbers. everyone knows the cavs blew away teams and held them to under 85 pts many times, so why would Mo score a crazy amount?

Z = old. slow, but can shoot. sucks defensively.
Big Ben = Finised. he cant do anything any more than a hustling PF with some knowlede of defense.

West = nice complementary player, but never going to be great. still better than 95% of the knicks.

cavs may be declining, but they will still pound the knicks next year.

1st off...shut up

2nd...nobodies expecting the Knicks to contend next year.

Bulls_fan90
06-02-2009, 07:18 AM
knicks best player is wilson chandler remove him if you want.

And why would we have to remove our best player? There arent rumors of the knicks's best player going to the Cavs. If Lebron James comes to NY its definitely won't be a trade he would be slotted into the lineup.

:laugh:

Becks2307
06-02-2009, 08:22 AM
:laugh:

wilson is the league's best kept secret

JDizzle
06-02-2009, 03:17 PM
def better chance for new york in 2010

BTownTeamsRKing
06-02-2009, 05:43 PM
I think Mo is UNDERRATED, actually. I think if he wanted to he could put up better numbers, maybe 20 Ppg playing with LeBron, eventually. He is a great shooter that has improved every year, and a dead eye FTer.

I know he disappeared in the ECF but that can be attributed to a few factors, including that it's the biggest stage he ever went on (and still, he did have one dynamite game in the series)

Still, I think he's a 3rd option and the Cavs need to find a legit #2.

I think some of you are kidding yourselves listing out Cleveland's players right now and pretending that it's the team they will have by the end of next season.

I do have to ask, why do you hate Cleveland so much? Or do you mean, you hate the Cavs, as a rival?

Mo is a very good player. Can control the team. great shooter from the outside. can drive to the hole. very good player, but lacks killer instinct. thats all.

i meant i hate the cavs as a rival. same way u probably do not enjoy the Celtics winning.

the Indians crack me up with those seagulls and bugs. why do they only show up for Joba and the yankees? hahaha

the browns tho, ugh i hate mangini. sorry i hope he fails. nothing against Edwards, Quinn, and co, but mangini annoys the heck out of me.

no hate for the city of cleveland (i never been and dont anything about). just 2 teams or 1 team and 1 coach.

JordansBulls
06-02-2009, 11:41 PM
If the Cavs are going to lose Lebron then why not just trade him to Portland for Lamarcus Aldridge, Greg Oden, Outlaw and Batum


Just imagine a Lebron and Roy duo

BTownTeamsRKing
06-02-2009, 11:54 PM
If the Cavs are going to lose Lebron then why not just trade him to Portland for Lamarcus Aldridge, Greg Oden, Outlaw and Batum


Just imagine a Lebron and Roy duo

i have a feeling lebron is going to f them over really bad next year. he might tell them hes staying and then bolt to ny.

I been saying for a while now that his character is very flawed and people thought i was haten. This guy's personality is close to that of TO. This is only the beginning of his end in cleveland.

that trade does sound very interesting. i honestly dont think Portland would do it tho.

knickjames23
06-02-2009, 11:57 PM
[QUOTE=geoffizfoshiz;9658475]Are you serious?

Mo Williams: 17.8 ppg 46% fg and 43% 3 pointers.

Nate Williams: 17.2 ppg 43% fg and 32% 3 pointers.

And Williams playes on a team with a 30 point scorer. Which is far more impressive than being able to score on a team where pretty much nobody excells offensively.

Do people honestly think they can make posts like this and nobody is going to call them on it?[/QU lol nate comes off bench while mo is a starter

MPScribbles
06-04-2009, 12:37 PM
Will one of you please tell me when is the last time that NY signed a premier player in free agency?

I guess not. Asking me a question is not answering mine.

cmstophe
06-04-2009, 04:11 PM
Mo is a very good player. Can control the team. great shooter from the outside. can drive to the hole. very good player, but lacks killer instinct. thats all.

i meant i hate the cavs as a rival. same way u probably do not enjoy the Celtics winning.

the Indians crack me up with those seagulls and bugs. why do they only show up for Joba and the yankees? hahaha

the browns tho, ugh i hate mangini. sorry i hope he fails. nothing against Edwards, Quinn, and co, but mangini annoys the heck out of me.

no hate for the city of cleveland (i never been and dont anything about). just 2 teams or 1 team and 1 coach.

LeBron is not going to "f" people over and he is not close to TO. I don't know what you're talking about in that other post but it really isn't worth commenting on. C'mon man. He doesn't shake someone's hand and now he's the TO of basketball.

As for Mo Williams, I disagree on lacking "killer instinct". I watched 82 regular season Cavs games and Mo Williams was the most clutch player on that team, even more so than James. If they needed a big shot late in the 4th, Mo would always hit it. He always seemed like he had icewater in his veins.

Then the playoffs happened, and he had a few good games but totally disappeared in the ECF. So is it lack of experience? Was he too small? Who knows? I don't think it has anything to do with 'killer instinct' or nothin.

MSG34
06-04-2009, 04:42 PM
I've posted it in other threads and I'll post it here as well. The Knicks current roster is better than the Cavs minus Lebron. If the knicks can manage to sneak into the playoffs next year without Lebron in year 2 of D'antoni and the Cavs don't win the championship, we have an up and coming supporting cast with playoff experience to offer Lebron. If you think he wouldn't take the knicks into consideration, you're ignorant.

Again, the knicks would destroy the cavs minus lebron.

If the Cavs don't make major acquisitions and go into next season without a marquee FA, big time trade, or a splash in the draft, they will not go any further than they went this year, and I can almost guarentee Lebron would leave. The pressure is on the front office.