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View Full Version : For the 4th year in a row - Elite Big Man vs Elite Wing Player in the finals



JordansBulls
05-31-2009, 01:45 AM
In 2006 it was

Elite Wing Player - Wade
Elite Big Man - Dirk


In 2007 it was

Elite Wing Player - Lebron
Elite Big Man - Duncan


In 2008 it was

Elite Wing Player - Kobe
Elite Big Man -Garnett


In 2009 it was

Elite Wing Player - Kobe
Elite Big Man -Dwight

ManRam
05-31-2009, 01:46 AM
Big men won 2 out of 3...so therefore there is no way the Magic lose.

theuuord
05-31-2009, 01:47 AM
In 2006 it was

Elite Wing Player - Wade
Elite Big Man - Dirk


In 2007 it was

Elite Wing Player - Lebron
Elite Big Man - Duncan


In 2008 it was

Elite Wing Player - Kobe
Elite Big Man -Garnett


In 2009 it was

Elite Wing Player - Kobe
Elite Big Man -Dwight

For what it's worth, the teams with an elite wing player also had an elite big (except for the Cavs, who had LeBron doing a bit of both), and each of the teams with an elite big had a very well-rounded wing (except for the Mavs, who had Dirk doing a bit of both as well).

theuuord
05-31-2009, 01:48 AM
Big men won 2 out of 3...so therefore there is no way the Magic lose.

No team has won without an elite big in at least three decades, unless they had that Jordan guy.


The Lakers still have Gasol.

carter15
05-31-2009, 01:48 AM
big man won all 3 when u consider that wade had shaq...who was an amazing big man.

x_notorious
05-31-2009, 01:53 AM
08 was more like Elite Wing player vs. Elite Wing player.

JordansBulls
05-31-2009, 01:54 AM
big man won all 3 when u consider that wade had shaq...who was an amazing big man.

I using the guys on the team who were considered the best for majority of the season and playoffs.

JordansBulls
05-31-2009, 01:55 AM
08 was more like Elite Wing player vs. Elite Wing player.

Not really!!! Garnett led the team in PER and Win Shares in the season and playoffs. When you lead the team in both you are clearly the best player on the team.

superkegger
05-31-2009, 01:56 AM
This is a really weak way to boil it down....

ejdacanay
05-31-2009, 02:00 AM
Kobe is a top 5 Wing of All Time. D12 will be lucky to hit top 15.

x_notorious
05-31-2009, 02:14 AM
Not really!!! Garnett led the team in PER and Win Shares in the season and playoffs. When you lead the team in both you are clearly the best player on the team.

Who won Finals MVP?

theuuord
05-31-2009, 02:15 AM
Who won Finals MVP?

Is Parker better than Duncan, too?

LAKERMANIA
05-31-2009, 02:15 AM
Not really!!! Garnett led the team in PER and Win Shares in the season and playoffs. When you lead the team in both you are clearly the best player on the team.

Not really, Boston wouldn't have won without Paul Pierce, he won Finals MVP, hence, he was the better player on the team..

And this doesn't make sense, the Lakers have Gasol an All star big man, that doesn't count for anything?

LAKERMANIA
05-31-2009, 02:16 AM
Is Parker better than Duncan, too?

Yes because without him the Spurs wouldn't have won that year..

theuuord
05-31-2009, 02:17 AM
Not really, Boston wouldn't have won without Paul Pierce, he won Finals MVP, hence, he was the better player on the team..

Again, is Parker better than Duncan? An arbitrary post-series award doesn't tell all.


And this doesn't make sense, the Lakers have Gasol an All star big man, that doesn't count for anything?

Agreed on this, but Kobe is the best player on the team, which is what I think this comparison is supposed to be referring to.

theuuord
05-31-2009, 02:18 AM
Yes because without him the Spurs wouldn't have won that year..

And without Duncan they probably would have missed the playoffs. That doesn't mean anything.

x_notorious
05-31-2009, 02:19 AM
Is Parker better than Duncan, too?

Awful way to try to twist my post around considering the fact that Duncan has more Finals MVP's than Parker.

:eyebrow:

theuuord
05-31-2009, 02:20 AM
Awful way to try to twist my post around considering the fact that Duncan has more Finals MVP's than Parker.

:eyebrow:

So what? Parker has more Finals MVP's than LeBron, does that make him better than LeBron too?

Using Finals MVP's to gauge value is dumb no matter how you slice it.

dbroncos78087
05-31-2009, 02:22 AM
IIn 2009 it was

Elite Wing Player - Kobe
Elite Big Man -Dwight

Man JB is going to make a killing in bets, he has already seen the series.

JordansBulls
05-31-2009, 02:24 AM
Not really, Boston wouldn't have won without Paul Pierce, he won Finals MVP, hence, he was the better player on the team..


I agree they wouldn't have won without Pierce, but Garnett got them into being a great team.




And this doesn't make sense, the Lakers have Gasol an All star big man, that doesn't count for anything?

Obviously Gasol is an allstar big man, I was using more or less the guys who are considered the best on the team that year for season and playoffs.

LAKERMANIA
05-31-2009, 02:27 AM
History points towards the Lakers since they have a little man big man duo in Kobe and Pau and Orlando clearly doesn't have a good all star swingman to complement Dwight.

Past title teams

2008- KG and PP
2007- TP and TD
2006- Wade and Shaq
2005- TP and TD
2004- Billups and Sheed (probably the only exception)
2003- TP and TD
2000-2002- Kobe and Shaq

in the post MJ era with a few exceptions, Little man Big man duo wins titles

I could pull a historical reference out of my *** too

x_notorious
05-31-2009, 02:31 AM
So what? Parker has more Finals MVP's than LeBron, does that make him better than LeBron too?

Using Finals MVP's to gauge value is dumb no matter how you slice it.

You're trying to twist my post around to seem like something it's not. Having a Finals MVP trophy credited to your name doesn't necessarily mean your 'better' than player A or B. However, it's a good measure to see who stepped it up that series and who was the most valuable player to the winning team.

JordansBulls
05-31-2009, 02:32 AM
History points towards the Lakers since they have a little man big man duo in Kobe and Pau and Orlando clearly doesn't have a good all star swingman to complement Dwight.

Past title teams

2008- KG and PP
2007- TP and TD
2006- Wade and Shaq
2005- TP and TD
2004- Billups and Sheed (probably the only exception)
2003- TP and TD
2000-2002- Kobe and Shaq

in the post MJ era with a few exceptions, Little man Big man duo wins titles

I could pull a historical reference out of my *** too

2003 - No. Tony Parker wasn't even that good at that time.
2005 it was Duncan and Manu.

LAKERMANIA
05-31-2009, 02:34 AM
2003 - No. Tony Parker wasn't even that good at that time.
2005 it was Duncan and Manu.

thats still a little man big man duo..

so in 2000-2008 all the finals except probably one had a big man little man duo to win the title, therefore Lakers win

JordansBulls
05-31-2009, 02:35 AM
thats still a little man big man duo..

so in 2000-2008 all the finals except probably one had a big man little man duo to win the title, therefore Lakers win

Ok, I get what you are saying. I thought you were calling Parker a star at the time.

cmellofan15
05-31-2009, 02:37 AM
lmao dbroncs :laugh:

Hellcrooner
05-31-2009, 02:44 AM
Not really!!! Garnett led the team in PER and Win Shares in the season and playoffs. When you lead the team in both you are clearly the best player on the team.
Dont say that too loud.. and dont talk about win shares , Faker Kobe Monks may chase your Ip and stab you at knigt for the Implications that would mean that "heresy"

cmellofan15
05-31-2009, 02:45 AM
Mavs had a Big-Little guy duo in Dirk and JET but they still lost. No doubt Shaq and Wade we're better but the core was still there.

theuuord
05-31-2009, 02:46 AM
You're trying to twist my post around to seem like something it's not. Having a Finals MVP trophy credited to your name doesn't necessarily mean your 'better' than player A or B. However, it's a good measure to see who stepped it up that series and who was the most valuable player to the winning team.

No, it's not a be-all-end-all definition of who was most valuable in that series. It's an arbitrary trophy given to who the general media wants to win the award.

Pierce was the logical pick last year because he'd been a Celtic for life, had some great offensive games, and was the heartthrob of Boston at that time. Doesn't change who got the team there overall over the course of a season, and how valuable the rest of the team (IE Garnett/Allen) were in that series as well.

kblo247
05-31-2009, 03:27 AM
Dont say that too loud.. and dont talk about win shares , Faker Kobe Monks may chase your Ip and stab you at knigt for the Implications that would mean that "heresy"

No, they would just call you out for acting like a guy who had never won a playoff game in 12 trys is more important than the guy who has 3 ring and changes his game to whatever the team needs :smoking:

sciferguy
05-31-2009, 03:53 AM
I dont think you can consider Gasol a dominating big man. To try to put him on the level of KG, TD, Shaq, or even Sheed when D-town won is just inflating your team a bit much.

montazingmvp
05-31-2009, 03:57 AM
dirk plays more like a wingman than a bigman

montazingmvp
05-31-2009, 03:58 AM
I dont think you can consider Gasol a dominating big man. To try to put him on the level of KG, TD, Shaq, or even Sheed when D-town won is just inflating your team a bit much.

wasn't he on the 2nd team all nba...that basically means right now he's considered one of the top 5 big men in the league

sciferguy
05-31-2009, 04:18 AM
so you will seriously put him in the same conversations as those big men, you honestly think Gasol is a dominant big man? Yeah he is good player and during the season he has had is moments every now and then but those guys carried their team every step of the way in the season and in the playoffs. Gasoft is nothing of the sort, sorry.

montazingmvp
05-31-2009, 05:04 AM
so you will seriously put him in the same conversations as those big men, you honestly think Gasol is a dominant big man? Yeah he is good player and during the season he has had is moments every now and then but those guys carried their team every step of the way in the season and in the playoffs. Gasoft is nothing of the sort, sorry.

gasol and sheed are comparable...sheed didn't carry the pistons. gasol is a very good player...

JordansBulls
05-31-2009, 09:01 AM
I dont think you can consider Gasol a dominating big man. To try to put him on the level of KG, TD, Shaq, or even Sheed when D-town won is just inflating your team a bit much.

Gasol isn't as good as KG, Duncan or Shaq, but he is definitely better than Sheed and more productive.

m26555
05-31-2009, 11:18 AM
Who won Finals MVP?
Boston couldn't even make it past the second round without Garnett this year. He is clearly their best player.

Kakaroach
05-31-2009, 11:21 AM
Interesting "stat" lol. Didn't realize some people looked at the match-ups like that.

m26555
05-31-2009, 11:23 AM
No, they would just call you out for acting like a guy who had never won a playoff game in 12 trys is more important than the guy who has 3 ring and changes his game to whatever the team needs :smoking:
Garnett never won a playoff game in 12 tries? What the hell are you talking about? To add to that, give KG Shaq, and he would have won three titles, too...

J-Relo
05-31-2009, 11:25 AM
In 2009 it IS

Elite Wing Player - Kobe
Elite Big Man -Dwight

and the winner is ....

Aapox
05-31-2009, 01:02 PM
JB I don't think you can consider dirk to be an "Elite Big Man"

Sure, he's big, but he's basically a wing player. He doesn't patrol the paint much at all.

(Sorry if this was already mentioned)

theuuord
05-31-2009, 01:06 PM
Gasol isn't as good as KG, Duncan or Shaq, but he is definitely better than Sheed and more productive.

He's one of the most scarily productive PF's in the game. Critics can call him soft until they're blue in the face but that doesn't change how ridiculously efficient he is.

hihellohi765
05-31-2009, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by m26555
Garnett never won a playoff game in 12 tries? What the hell are you talking about? To add to that, give KG Shaq, and he would have won three titles, too..

I think he is talking about Gasol never won a playoff game before he went to the Lakers. Hellcrooner usually likes to hate on Kobe and love on Gasol.

I think that was all.

madiaz3
05-31-2009, 01:50 PM
No, it's not a be-all-end-all definition of who was most valuable in that series. It's an arbitrary trophy given to who the general media wants to win the award.

Pierce was the logical pick last year because he'd been a Celtic for life, had some great offensive games, and was the heartthrob of Boston at that time. Doesn't change who got the team there overall over the course of a season, and how valuable the rest of the team (IE Garnett/Allen) were in that series as well.

Yeah because PER and winshares aren't arbitrary "end-all-be all" ways of saying who was the best in a series and team.

MagicBucsSox
05-31-2009, 01:56 PM
Kobe is a top 5 Wing of All Time. D12 will be lucky to hit top 15.

dude he's 23 and already broke a wilt record

madiaz3
05-31-2009, 01:57 PM
Boston couldn't even make it past the second round without Garnett this year. He is clearly their best player.

That argument doesn't make sense. See how far they get with KG but no Pierce? Until we know the other result you're making an unfair comparison. (BTW Tony Allen is Pierce's backup...) while you had Big Baby / Powe step it up BIG TIME in KG's absence.

theuuord
05-31-2009, 03:48 PM
That argument doesn't make sense. See how far they get with KG but no Pierce? Until we know the other result you're making an unfair comparison. (BTW Tony Allen is Pierce's backup...) while you had Big Baby / Powe step it up BIG TIME in KG's absence.

Yeah, they did step up. In a huge way.


And they lost.


KG's impact is massive, especially on the defensive end.

dos132
05-31-2009, 04:30 PM
Big men won 2 out of 3...so therefore there is no way the Magic lose.

do not conclude:mad:. just watch the final, and see who's the better team, and it's not only big man vs. wing player, its a team sports:eyebrow:... lakers got some big man too.. like Gasol, Bynum and LO:D...

superdude79
05-31-2009, 07:27 PM
The Lakers also have the Refs going for them in the finals, "where amazing happens"

uncblue2332
05-31-2009, 07:36 PM
Again, is Parker better than Duncan? An arbitrary post-series award doesn't tell all.



Agreed on this, but Kobe is the best player on the team, which is what I think this comparison is supposed to be referring to.

Well Kareem was league MVP on 2 of LA championship team but because magic johnson was the best postseason player he was the best......same can be said about Tony Parker and Paul Pierce. On top of that Gasol is in the top 5 of big men in the game now and you dont say anything about him being on the court

LAKERMANIA
05-31-2009, 07:41 PM
The Lakers also have the Refs going for them in the finals, "where amazing happens"

:laugh2:

So let me get this straight.. If the Lakers win its going to be because of the refs?

Fool
05-31-2009, 08:09 PM
Big men won 2 out of 3...so therefore there is no way the Magic lose.

:cool: so that's how it works.

no, following the 4 year trend, it should go Wing, Big, Big, Wing. So the Lakers have to win.

theuuord
05-31-2009, 08:48 PM
:laugh2:

So let me get this straight.. If the Lakers win its going to be because of the refs?

No matter who wins, people will blame the refs.