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View Full Version : Is Howard the best player in Basketball yet?



AIverson
05-27-2009, 11:36 PM
Honestly, it's only a matter of time. He's already top 3 no questions asks. He's clearly better than Wade and Kobe simply because of the impact he has at his position. I had him at 3rd best behind James and CP3, but he's looking better than CP3.

magicbucs4eva
05-27-2009, 11:59 PM
thats hard to say just because there all different positions! but ill ride wit it! i love dwight hes a beast

ManRam
05-28-2009, 12:02 AM
Ha. Until he can consistently score with the ball in his hands and score with his back to the basket (not off of rebounds, not of of passes where all he has to do is dunk), he wont ever be in the discussion for best in the game. His offense is not go-to caliber. You cannot give him the ball and except him to carry a team. He's best when he's creating his own shots off of offensive rebounding, and good positioning. He's awful when you give him the ball at the block, and tell him to score. He has very little touch offensively. He's tearing Cleveland's bigs apart, mainly Z, but Z cannot guard Howard. Perk shut Howard down. Until Howard can score on anyone in the league, at will, he's not the best.

Defensively and athletically, he's a top 10 player. Until he develops the skill, you can't start talking about top 3.

ertanozgur
05-28-2009, 01:06 AM
haha ..that was a great joke !

sNaKeS
05-28-2009, 01:12 AM
He will never be perceived as the best. Ever. Every fan, analyst, expert, etc... loves the guards and no one cares about centers anymore. It's a guard oriented league for a reason. I don't understand it because you can't win a championship without a dominant big man unless your team has michael jordan on it. I would say right now he is third because lebron and kobe are still so damn good and howard doesn't have the greatest offensive game yet, but it will be a great debate either this next year or in the very near future.

MagicBucsSox
05-28-2009, 03:54 AM
Ha. Until he can consistently score with the ball in his hands and score with his back to the basket (not off of rebounds, not of of passes where all he has to do is dunk), he wont ever be in the discussion for best in the game. His offense is not go-to caliber. You cannot give him the ball and except him to carry a team. He's best when he's creating his own shots off of offensive rebounding, and good positioning. He's awful when you give him the ball at the block, and tell him to score. He has very little touch offensively. He's tearing Cleveland's bigs apart, mainly Z, but Z cannot guard Howard. Perk shut Howard down. Until Howard can score on anyone in the league, at will, he's not the best.

Defensively and athletically, he's a top 10 player. Until he develops the skill, you can't start talking about top 3.

shut him down? he avg he reg season numbers

EX-TREME
05-28-2009, 09:22 AM
top five.

Sandman
05-28-2009, 09:45 AM
Right behind LeBron for best player.

Arguable with Kobe. Different positions really.

but Dwight is the LCL.

Sandman
05-28-2009, 09:50 AM
Defensively and athletically, he's a top 10 player. Until he develops the skill, you can't start talking about top 3.
He's not good under the rim, but he still gets 20+. Couple that with his all-world defense and rebounding..


He just might be that good... with room to improve. Nobody in the league is stopping Dwight from getting his 20/15. Consistency reigns supreme in the NBA. Some guys rack up the points, some guys rack up the Ws, but you win in the playoffs when you're able to recreate your success against the league's best teams.

He gets his 20/20 versus LA. Whether its the Clippers or the Lakers.

If he's not the best, he at least presents the worst matchup for any team in the league. And that's just the same.

MagicBucsSox
05-28-2009, 11:43 AM
i think he's 4th. the mvp voting went perfect. the dpoy voting was lame, lebron runner up? please he's guarding skip and only does blocks from behind

MagicDojo
05-28-2009, 11:52 AM
He is the best center and has yet to peak. If he had gone to college this would be his rookie year. In about 4 years...lookout. He is on his way to being the best but not there yet.

Kenny
05-28-2009, 01:24 PM
i think he's 4th. the mvp voting went perfect. the dpoy voting was lame, lebron runner up? please he's guarding skip and only does blocks from behind

he has the ball in his hands 24/7 what do you want him to chase guys on defense for 4 quaters also? He does what every star does, covers there top perimeter guy in the 4th quater.. Cavs in the regular season were the best defensive team as well, Magic have too many mismatches for them though.

I thought the dpoy was accurate also

Gdubbz
05-28-2009, 01:30 PM
In Centers and Power Forwards, hes numero Uno. Just cause hes so dominate. We are starting to see a side of him that Magic fans haven't seen. Him take over a game in the clutch. Thats what makes him good to great. Out off all players hes not the best. basketball calls for dominance, but also calls that you can do it all. Howard is getting better from the free throw line, but I wouldn't say he going to jack up shots from the key or baseline, I think he'd rater just dunk on your head instead..

jim51990
05-28-2009, 02:30 PM
Not a chance
I like dwight a lot but he's not even top 5 yet
1 lebron 2 kobe 3 dwade 4 d-will 5 cp3 6 dwight

The top five all excel on both offense and deffense where as dwight is great on d but offensivly challenged

rapjuicer06
05-28-2009, 02:46 PM
offensively challenged? hahahaha he pretty much took over that overtime game against the cavs. he got the ball, he scored....simple as that. he can take over a game sooo easily. if he wanted to he could put up 40+ a game. no one can guard him, he's too athletic

Sandman
05-28-2009, 02:47 PM
he has the ball in his hands 24/7 what do you want him to chase guys on defense for 4 quaters also?
you're going to vote a guy for a defensive award on this basis?


And LeBron was guarding Rafer, but LeBron is ALL OVER the place on defense and he's constantly helping his teammates. It's no coincidence he guards Rafer, because he's the one he leaves when he goes to double somebody else.

ManRam
05-28-2009, 06:46 PM
shut him down? he avg he reg season numbers

Great players also elevate their game in the playoffs.

He averaged 16.4 points that series. He had ZERO success backing him down. He can score at will vs. anyone in the league when he gets the ball below the basket. But when he gets the ball at the elbow or the block, and has to put the ball on the ground to score, he's average at best (unless Z is guarding him).

The fact that he is so raw, and this thread is in existence, just shows how great he can become. He's just not there yet. His game isn't polished yet.

AIverson
05-29-2009, 06:17 AM
Why the hell are people saying Wade and Kobe are better than him?

That's a complete joke. SG jacking up 30 shots a game=better than howard? Are you serious? If that's how people are going to think now days, I now have the right to say prime Iverson>Prime Shaq, correct?

AIverson
05-29-2009, 06:18 AM
Why the hell are people saying Wade and Kobe are better than him?

That's a complete joke. SG jacking up 30 shots a game=better than howard? Are you serious? If that's how people are going to think now days, I now have the right to say prime Iverson>Prime Shaq, correct?

jim51990
05-29-2009, 05:37 PM
Why the hell are people saying Wade and Kobe are better than him?

That's a complete joke. SG jacking up 30 shots a game=better than howard? Are you serious? If that's how people are going to think now days, I now have the right to say prime Iverson>Prime Shaq, correct?

because they are better and its not close besides dunk he can make a jumper
which no matter what position is a must if you wanna be the best

ragee
05-29-2009, 07:57 PM
Honestly, it's only a matter of time. He's already top 3 no questions asks. He's clearly better than Wade and Kobe simply because of the impact he has at his position. I had him at 3rd best behind James and CP3, but he's looking better than CP3.

:confused:

As much as I hate Kobe, I am no homer... Kobe and Lebron are the best players in the league today... Dwight still has a lot of work to do... He may be in the top 5 but I am not sure if he is better than Wade and CP3... Him being a center, does put points on him though...

cmstophe
05-29-2009, 08:01 PM
....no......

Best big man, though.

ragee
05-29-2009, 08:29 PM
because they are better and its not close besides dunk he can make a jumper
which no matter what position is a must if you wanna be the best

Uh... You don't necessarily need a jumpshot to be the best player in the league... Especially as a center... Shaq did not have a jump shot but was the best player in his prime... Dwight has a chance to be like that too if he continues to improve his game... Sure, a jump shot would make it even sweeter but you can be the best in the league by just being monster in the paint...Someone who dominates the glass, a great defender (dwight is doing both already) and can continue to score at will in the paint...


Why the hell are people saying Wade and Kobe are better than him?

That's a complete joke. SG jacking up 30 shots a game=better than howard? Are you serious? If that's how people are going to think now days, I now have the right to say prime Iverson>Prime Shaq, correct?

I am a Magic fan but come on... As much as I like Dwight, he is not in the same level with Kobe... Yes, he is a center and that is the most important position in basketball in my opinion but we can't really say the Magic is where they are soley because of Dwight... We have Lewis, Hedo and Nelson that made the inside outplay work really well... Do you think Dwight can score that much without great passers and great shooters around him? I don't think so... I hope Dwight continues to work hard on his game... He is improving but his post up skills still has a lot of flaws... It would be nice for him to develop some legit hook shots and maybe a decent jumper... This will help him to get more easy dunks too... If this happens, then he may become the best player in the league...

DQL
05-31-2009, 12:05 AM
Why the hell are people saying Wade and Kobe are better than him?

That's a complete joke. SG jacking up 30 shots a game=better than howard? Are you serious? If that's how people are going to think now days, I now have the right to say prime Iverson>Prime Shaq, correct?

oh I guess Jordan's not better than Blount and Dwight? :rolleyes:

DieselPowered32
05-31-2009, 12:49 AM
I do think Dwight will probably win a MVP in his career possibly more than one, to be considered the leagues best player u need to not only do it in the regular season but elevate ur game in the playoffs...and Dwight is doing that this season. If he can lead his team to a Championship against the Lakers then too me you would seriously need to consider him as better than lebron because it would be Howard 1 ring Lebron 0.

I'm looking forward to seeing Dwight play against the Lakers Bigmen, he should totally dominate them and i hope he does. Magic have a real chance to man handle the Lakers inside...even Gortat is tougher than bynum,odom and gasol put together

MagicBucsSox
05-31-2009, 01:18 AM
Great players also elevate their game in the playoffs.

He averaged 16.4 points that series. He had ZERO success backing him down. He can score at will vs. anyone in the league when he gets the ball below the basket. But when he gets the ball at the elbow or the block, and has to put the ball on the ground to score, he's average at best (unless Z is guarding him).

The fact that he is so raw, and this thread is in existence, just shows how great he can become. He's just not there yet. His game isn't polished yet.


so mr.hater 40,13,1, 12-16 ft! is that "elevating" for you? and if it werent for refs itd be more in the series

ManRam
05-31-2009, 01:43 AM
so mr.hater 40,13,1, 12-16 ft! is that "elevating" for you? and if it werent for refs itd be more in the series

He elevated. Like Jalen Rose just said...he improved a lot this series. He wasn't a huge factor offensively prior to this series. He hadn't elevated prior to this series...you can't deny that.

But Z guarding Dwight is a joke. He should score 30-40 every night vs. Z. We'll see how he does vs. LA. I think he'll have some big games...because LA is incredibly soft up front, just like Cleveland.

I still feel the same way about Dwight. He's horrible with his back to the basket, he's a force when he doesn't have to back a defender down, or dribble the ball to score. The Cavs defenders allowed Dwight to get low in the post (not dribble), and let him attack them face on (not backing down).

mockj12
05-31-2009, 01:56 AM
He'll never be the best player as long as LeBron, Kobe, and Dwayne Wade are in the league

AIverson
05-31-2009, 02:49 AM
You guys are crazy. Have some faith in Howard, he's awesome!

When we had Garnett here in Minnesota, if someone said a guy like Kobe for crying out loud was better than KG, I'd slap the stupid out of them. No way in hell are these little volume shooters better than these franchise big men!

Howard's going to win a title for you guys this year. Give him some credit!

@Whoever mentioned Jordan:

Prime Shaq is a better basketball player than Jordan is. It's not only my opinion, it's Phil Jackson's as well. Shaq is the best player to ever play the game, Jordan is the greatest.

Not really trying to get on anyone here, I just want Magic fans to show Howard more support. He's a great player who's doing great things for the fans down in Orlando, and the NBA is lucky to have a guy like him in the Sport.

Magic fans, don't let the media tell you all of this BS about Kobe, Wade or Lebron. So what if Howard doesn't score 30ppg. Last time I checked defense and rebounding meant a lot in Basketball, and Howard does those things better than ANYONE in the game.

ManRam
05-31-2009, 10:59 AM
You guys are crazy. Have some faith in Howard, he's awesome!

When we had Garnett here in Minnesota, if someone said a guy like Kobe for crying out loud was better than KG, I'd slap the stupid out of them. No way in hell are these little volume shooters better than these franchise big men!

Howard's going to win a title for you guys this year. Give him some credit!

@Whoever mentioned Jordan:

Prime Shaq is a better basketball player than Jordan is. It's not only my opinion, it's Phil Jackson's as well. Shaq is the best player to ever play the game, Jordan is the greatest.

Not really trying to get on anyone here, I just want Magic fans to show Howard more support. He's a great player who's doing great things for the fans down in Orlando, and the NBA is lucky to have a guy like him in the Sport.

Magic fans, don't let the media tell you all of this BS about Kobe, Wade or Lebron. So what if Howard doesn't score 30ppg. Last time I checked defense and rebounding meant a lot in Basketball, and Howard does those things better than ANYONE in the game.

He's great, but he just has obvious and glaring weaknesses. He hasn't tapped into all his potential, and still relies on his athleticism too much. Until he develops more skill and touch offensively, he wont be the best. He can be a liability at times...especially in the 4th quarter. I don't hate Howard at all, I just get frustrated with him. He has so much potential, and hasn't tapped into all of it yet.

The best player in the league HAS TO be a go-to scorer. Howard, despite game 6 vs. Cleveland and Illgauskas, is not a go-to scorer yet. Just look at his playoff 4th quarter numbers.

MagicBucsSox
05-31-2009, 11:46 AM
he is 23 and this good. its such a little man perimeter game these days big men arent respected. wade is already 27 so dwight can surpass him. i dont think lebron though.
but he's hitting clutch FTs. plus he's in a offense that he's not the focal point but i think thatll xhange now

kozelkid
05-31-2009, 12:21 PM
Dwight should be the second or third best player for years to come, but he will NEVER surpass King James. This is coming from a guy who rooted for Magic all the way and would hate to see Lebron surpass Jordan. But the man was truly unbelievable. Fortunately for Orlando, they have a much better team.

ragee
05-31-2009, 02:49 PM
If he can continue to play like how he played last night, then sooner or later he will be...

LakersnDodgers
05-31-2009, 04:59 PM
Honestly, it's only a matter of time. He's already top 3 no questions asks. He's clearly better than Wade and Kobe simply because of the impact he has at his position. I had him at 3rd best behind James and CP3, but he's looking better than CP3.


LOL......seriously might be worst thread out there! CP3 isn't better than Kobe or Wade,hell he isn't even better than Deron Williams.The best player doesn't foul out 2 times in a 6 games series! he is the BEST defensive player but not overal---bad Thread--drugs kill kid stop!

AIverson
05-31-2009, 05:00 PM
Dwight should be the second or third best player for years to come, but he will NEVER surpass King James. This is coming from a guy who rooted for Magic all the way and would hate to see Lebron surpass Jordan. But the man was truly unbelievable. Fortunately for Orlando, they have a much better team.

Lebron will be hard for him to best, but I think it's possible. He outplayed Lebron in the ECF, not that it matters much. Dwight Howard just does so many little things that are actually HUGE! It's hard for me to turn down the automatic control of the paint you get just from him stepping on the court, the all-world godly defense of his and the incredible rebounding just for the 5-7 more points a guy like Kobe or Lebron or Wade get.

I guess Orlando fans are just different than what I'm use to seeing here in Minnesota. We always looked at our star athletes as gods that can do no wrong. If we lose, it sure isn't AP, Moss or KG's fault.

AIverson
05-31-2009, 05:02 PM
LOL......seriously might be worst thread out there! CP3 isn't better than Kobe or Wade,hell he isn't even better than Deron Williams.The best player doesn't foul out 2 times in a 6 games series! he is the BEST defensive player but not overal---bad Thread--drugs kill kid stop!

CP3 is a monster. If you have no respect for his talent, there's really nothing I can say to you.

Jeremy5150
05-31-2009, 05:52 PM
How dare you suggest that Howard is better than Lebron James or Chris Paul! Even though those guys can't make it out of the ECSF, they are clearly the best in the game... just watch ESPN if you don't believe me!

For the record, Lebron James is Dominique Wilkens II, and not basketball's savior.

tbron
06-01-2009, 03:57 PM
Honestly, it's only a matter of time. He's already top 3 no questions asks. He's clearly better than Wade and Kobe simply because of the impact he has at his position. I had him at 3rd best behind James and CP3, but he's looking better than CP3.

only an a.i. fan could be this stupid.

tbron
06-01-2009, 03:58 PM
How dare you suggest that Howard is better than Lebron James or Chris Paul! Even though those guys can't make it out of the ECSF, they are clearly the best in the game... just watch ESPN if you don't believe me!

For the record, Lebron James is Dominique Wilkens II, and not basketball's savior.

howard>paul and it's not close.

LakeShowRaider
06-02-2009, 12:05 AM
The debate for who the best player in the NBA begins and ends with Kobe and LeBron.

Not trying to be an A-Hole but hypothetically speaking next year if the Magic don't make it back to the finals no will say anything about Dwight being the best.

myqntab
06-02-2009, 08:36 PM
only the haters think anyone is even close to being in the same league as kobe and lebron...they are on another plateu....and until the boy grows up some more (and yes, taking his team to the ECF goes a very long way to doing that), lets not rush to judgements

i seem to remember alot of people thinking these very same thoughts about amare.....greatness is detemined by not only potential, but the successes that adorn ones mantle

tbron
06-02-2009, 10:55 PM
Why the hell are people saying Wade and Kobe are better than him?

That's a complete joke. SG jacking up 30 shots a game=better than howard? Are you serious? If that's how people are going to think now days, I now have the right to say prime Iverson>Prime Shaq, correct?

wade took 22 shot pg this season and kobe took 21. lol at an a.i. fan saying that all he does is chuck.

Hotone1401
06-03-2009, 10:34 PM
HAHA!!! This thread is hilarious and some of you guys posting in here are ridiculous. I can't believe you guys are actually debating this. Dwight Howard can only be stopped by himself and that is exactly the problem. The kid is still so raw as a player. He really hasn't developed any skill and he lacks the fundamentals to be an efficient post player. I'm sure he will continue to develop as a player but at this point he isn't better than any of the guys you named. Don't get me wrong, the kid is a supreme athlete and a monster of a big man but that alone doesn't make him the best. His team's success has just as much to do with Hedo's and Rashard's play as it does his.

Dwight Howard is behind Lebron, Kobe, Wade, and D-Will as an overall player but he is probably the first guy I would pick if I were building a team just because we know big men win championships.

BlazerNation
06-04-2009, 03:23 AM
HAHA!!! This thread is hilarious and some of you guys posting in here are ridiculous. I can't believe you guys are actually debating this. Dwight Howard can only be stopped by himself and that is exactly the problem. The kid is still so raw as a player. He really hasn't developed any skill and he lacks the fundamentals to be an efficient post player. I'm sure he will continue to develop as a player but at this point he isn't better than any of the guys you named. Don't get me wrong, the kid is a supreme athlete and a monster of a big man but that alone doesn't make him the best. His team's success has just as much to do with Hedo's and Rashard's play as it does his.

Dwight Howard is behind Lebron, Kobe, Wade, and D-Will as an overall player but he is probably the first guy I would pick if I were building a team just because we know big men win championships.

I would agree with the first 3, but I think he is better than D-Will. But he Also is behind Chris Paul.
1) Kobe Bryant
2) LeBron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
Dwight may still be raw offensively, but don't discredit the other parts of his game. His interior presence, rebounding, and shot blocking ability are all tops in the league. And even for us to call Dwight raw offensively, he still scores quite a ton off of easy baskets that he gets off of offensive boards. Dwight isn't the best at this point, but he definitely can get there (he's only like 24). He still is a top 5 player though in my book based on his defense alone.

DiehardLakerFan
06-04-2009, 04:38 AM
Honestly, it's only a matter of time. He's already top 3 no questions asks. He's clearly better than Wade and Kobe simply because of the impact he has at his position. I had him at 3rd best behind James and CP3, but he's looking better than CP3.

Better than Kobe...ok yeah allright whatever

ManRam
06-04-2009, 11:06 AM
I would agree with the first 3, but I think he is better than D-Will. But he Also is behind Chris Paul.
1) Kobe Bryant
2) LeBron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
Dwight may still be raw offensively, but don't discredit the other parts of his game. His interior presence, rebounding, and shot blocking ability are all tops in the league. And even for us to call Dwight raw offensively, he still scores quite a ton off of easy baskets that he gets off of offensive boards. Dwight isn't the best at this point, but he definitely can get there (he's only like 24). He still is a top 5 player though in my book based on his defense alone.

Well said. Dwight has a lot of room to improved. There are aspects of his game that are flat out weak. The guys BlazerNation puts above Dwight have no real glaring weaknesses, at least not like Dwight does. Right now, Dwight isn't the best, he isn't in the same class. He has work to do to get there. He might get there soon, but right now, his game isn't complete enough.

khalil72
06-04-2009, 11:39 AM
Best player? :eyebrow: Not too sure about that. The two people mentioned who actually have rings are Kobe and D-Wade. You will have to put them 1 and 2 respectively, then you can argue the James - Howard placement at 3 and 4. Even if Howard gets a ring I don't think you can push him past James. James carried a team with little talent to 60 wins this year and Wade is still better than Howard because he has carried his team to the playoffs with minimal help also. Howard has a lot of good players around him and would probably have an issue winning on a team without shooters like Lewis, Turkoglu and Nelson. As you can see in the past a big man is as good as his perimeter players. Look at Shaq the year he made it to the finals with the Magic. Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson. The years he won with the Lakers Kobe, Rick Fox, Fisher and Robert Horry. The year he won with Miami Wade, Williams, Posey and Kapono. If Howard was without shooters he could only carry a team so far. He's a great player and will soon be the "most dominate" player in the game but he will have a hard time claiming the "The Best in the League." title. He's a beast don't get me wrong, but not the best in the league.

MagicDojo
06-04-2009, 04:05 PM
If Howard wins this final and gets the Finals MVP then we can talk about his ranking.
Greatness is made in the playoffs, lets see what he does. He impressed me against Philly a little and really stepped up against Boston. (Especially in game 5 with the Magic down 3-2/ 23 points 22 rebounds)to force game 7. He tore Cleveland up in game 6 to prevent a terrifying game 7, 40 points 14 rebounds 70%ft. Can he elevate his game even more in the finals? this will determine his greatness. Time to step up Dwight.

Vinny642
06-04-2009, 04:16 PM
1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4- Cp or Dwight(interchangible)
5. ^^^^
^. DWill- maybe but i dont see anything wrong with that

iluvsports2much
06-05-2009, 01:40 AM
Honestly, it's only a matter of time. He's already top 3 no questions asks. He's clearly better than Wade and Kobe simply because of the impact he has at his position. I had him at 3rd best behind James and CP3, but he's looking better than CP3.

after tonites game,looks like hes still a notch below kobe...:D

iluvsports2much
06-05-2009, 01:45 AM
but hes defianately top 5...hes soooo dominant on both ends of the court

1.LBJ/Kobe (to close to call,either one could go #1 and the other #2)
3.wade
4.CP3
5.Dwight

AIverson
06-05-2009, 04:08 AM
I will never put a volume shooting SG over a power house Center who dominates both ends ala Hakeem/Duncan/Howard, sorry.

I don't even put my favorite player, who I consider better than Kobe when he was in his youth, over those guys.

I'm a believer of dominate big man>guard. always have been and I'm sticking to what I believe in.

rapjuicer06
06-05-2009, 09:28 AM
last night prooved that howard isn't even in the top 5....

jerseykidd88
06-05-2009, 10:04 AM
yeaa......riiiight lol he aint even the best center to me because you cant keep giving em the ball in clutch lol like shaq dirk kg duncan or even al jefferson

rapjuicer06
06-05-2009, 11:25 AM
yea um, dirk, kg, duncan and al jefferson are all PF

geoffizfoshiz
06-05-2009, 12:29 PM
If anyone watched the game last night and think Kobe isn't either 1 or 2 in the league, than you're crazy.

Dwight faced single coverage for the most part last night, and played horribly. Kobe was swarmed all night and he put on an amazing performance.

The Prodigy
06-05-2009, 12:47 PM
Honestly, it's only a matter of time. He's already top 3 no questions asks. He's clearly better than Wade and Kobe simply because of the impact he has at his position. I had him at 3rd best behind James and CP3, but he's looking better than CP3.

I usually don't do this but most ignorant post with no knoweldge of the NBA

Storch
06-05-2009, 01:01 PM
Is this thread even thread worthy since the best player in basketball scored 1 field goal last night? :clap:

Toadman
06-05-2009, 01:17 PM
Honestly, it's only a matter of time. He's already top 3 no questions asks. He's clearly better than Wade and Kobe simply because of the impact he has at his position. I had him at 3rd best behind James and CP3, but he's looking better than CP3.

Your perspective of Bball talent is contrary to just about every GM, NBA coach, & most NBA players. But hey, there are some people who think that
Rajon Rondo is the best point guard in the league!
As for the rest of us that know a little about Bball, we beg to differ.

rapjuicer06
06-05-2009, 02:38 PM
If anyone watched the game last night and think Kobe isn't either 1 or 2 in the league, than you're crazy.

Dwight faced single coverage for the most part last night, and played horribly. Kobe was swarmed all night and he put on an amazing performance.

i'm pretty sure kobe, ariza, pau, odom and bynum all helped and double teamed howard last night...

JJ81
06-05-2009, 07:05 PM
Lakers did a great job against Howard last night, holding him to 1-6 shooting.

MagicBucsSox
06-05-2009, 07:47 PM
If anyone watched the game last night and think Kobe isn't either 1 or 2 in the league, than you're crazy.

Dwight faced single coverage for the most part last night, and played horribly. Kobe was swarmed all night and he put on an amazing performance.

like are you serious? or you just a lakers fan who just know that they won and dont know basketball? dude dwight was triple teamed the entire night, soon as he'd touch to ball 5 lakers surrounded him hacking and swiping at the ball. im sick of this bynum talk - dude had squat to do with the game and when he was on dwight we had the lead and phil sat his azz like be forreal.

ill had it to LA they handed us our azz but lets not act as if dwight isnt a top5 guy. when it takes a triple team for 1man- HE'S TOP 5.

BoltLakerPadre
06-05-2009, 08:50 PM
Ha, better than Kobe? That one field goal was mighty impressive.

Hotone1401
06-05-2009, 10:31 PM
like are you serious? or you just a lakers fan who just know that they won and dont know basketball? dude dwight was triple teamed the entire night, soon as he'd touch to ball 5 lakers surrounded him hacking and swiping at the ball. im sick of this bynum talk - dude had squat to do with the game and when he was on dwight we had the lead and phil sat his azz like be forreal.

ill had it to LA they handed us our azz but lets not act as if dwight isnt a top5 guy. when it takes a triple team for 1man- HE'S TOP 5.

I don't think the guy was saying that Dwight wasn't top 5 because he definitely is..the scary part is that he isn't even fully developed. We swarmed him last night and he had a tough game. The point is...Dwight is not better than Kobe and anybody saying he is would be really disrespecting Kobe and the years he has put in this league. With that said, good luck this series and hopefully the games will be closer.

iluvsports2much
06-06-2009, 02:36 AM
Ha, better than Kobe? That one field goal was mighty impressive.

:laugh:

MagicBucsSox
06-06-2009, 07:40 AM
I don't think the guy was saying that Dwight wasn't top 5 because he definitely is..the scary part is that he isn't even fully developed. We swarmed him last night and he had a tough game. The point is...Dwight is not better than Kobe and anybody saying he is would be really disrespecting Kobe and the years he has put in this league. With that said, good luck this series and hopefully the games will be closer.


hell no he's not better than kobe,even though u cant compared the too, kb8(gunner kb) is my fav player all time, i thnk he's is the greatest ever,yes ever. if lakers go on to beat us i wont hate because then kobe can shut up all shaq's followers

rapjuicer06
06-06-2009, 08:49 AM
look you guys held him to 1-6 shooting....but he still put up 12 points on that 1-6 shooting. if he makes his free throws next game (big if) and he gets 16 free throws again, then he doesn't have to make any FG's. if your game plan is to hack the **** out of dwight the way it happened to shaq then hopefully dwight can make that back fire

MagicBucsSox
06-06-2009, 10:28 AM
he has the ball in his hands 24/7 what do you want him to chase guys on defense for 4 quaters also? He does what every star does, covers there top perimeter guy in the 4th quater.. Cavs in the regular season were the best defensive team as well, Magic have too many mismatches for them though.

I thought the dpoy was accurate also



um yes? kobe does it,wade,bosh,ai did it,plenty guys do. he dont guard the best giy every clutch mpment he was on rafer or aj

geoffizfoshiz
06-06-2009, 01:00 PM
look you guys held him to 1-6 shooting....but he still put up 12 points on that 1-6 shooting. if he makes his free throws next game (big if) and he gets 16 free throws again, then he doesn't have to make any FG's. if your game plan is to hack the **** out of dwight the way it happened to shaq then hopefully dwight can make that back fire

Howard is going to do A LOT better than simply making his free throws if the magic want to win. Even if he were to make all 16 shots at the line...they'd be screwed. He wants to walk around calling himself Superman, than it is time for some superman-like performances under adversity. 1-6? He should be stripped of the nickname.

geoffizfoshiz
06-06-2009, 01:05 PM
like are you serious? or you just a lakers fan who just know that they won and dont know basketball? dude dwight was triple teamed the entire night, soon as he'd touch to ball 5 lakers surrounded him hacking and swiping at the ball. im sick of this bynum talk - dude had squat to do with the game and when he was on dwight we had the lead and phil sat his azz like be forreal.

ill had it to LA they handed us our azz but lets not act as if dwight isnt a top5 guy. when it takes a triple team for 1man- HE'S TOP 5.

Dwight was played with single coverage PLENTY of times. If he had a decent post game than he would have done much better than 1-6. Nobody was surrounding him when he commited that offensive foul with his elbow..that was 1 on 1 coverage. The problem was that he doesn't have the post moves to do anything but power his way through.

I didn't say anything about Bynum, so I don't know why you are quoting me and saying you are sick of the Bynum talk. I think he played decent, but was nothing special. The magic have absolutly no way of stopping Kobe though.

rapjuicer06
06-06-2009, 01:17 PM
Howard is going to do A LOT better than simply making his free throws if the magic want to win. Even if he were to make all 16 shots at the line...they'd be screwed. He wants to walk around calling himself Superman, than it is time for some superman-like performances under adversity. 1-6? He should be stripped of the nickname.

i do believe he got the nickname because of the superman dunk, so naw, he souldn't get stripped of it. and howard will do better. you can't hold him down for two games. him, lewis, and turk will all go off in this game two

Hotone1401
06-06-2009, 01:33 PM
hell no he's not better than kobe,even though u cant compared the too, kb8(gunner kb) is my fav player all time, i thnk he's is the greatest ever,yes ever. if lakers go on to beat us i wont hate because then kobe can shut up all shaq's followers

Where are you coming from man?? I never said Dwight was better than Kobe lol. You quoted my post but I don't think you even read it.

MagicBucsSox
06-06-2009, 02:29 PM
Dwight was played with single coverage PLENTY of times. If he had a decent post game than he would have done much better than 1-6. Nobody was surrounding him when he commited that offensive foul with his elbow..that was 1 on 1 coverage. The problem was that he doesn't have the post moves to do anything but power his way through.

I didn't say anything about Bynum, so I don't know why you are quoting me and saying you are sick of the Bynum talk. I think he played decent, but was nothing special. The magic have absolutly no way of stopping Kobe though.


showing off your basketball knowledge there huh? they me someone who does. now when a guy only takes 6 shots u think because he was gun shy and "no post moves" or does he only take 6shots BECAUSE HE'S PASSING IT OUT BECAUSE HE'S FREAKING TRIPLE TEAMED!!!!!! like he average 25 and 15 on LA so lets not act like this isnt the same guy.you guys have obviously done something for him to have a bad night. and it damn sure wasnt 1 on 1 coverage in which we were leading at that point. like u guys won a game,good deed.loss in a loss wheter its by 1 or 40.game2 sunday

rapjuicer06
06-06-2009, 02:55 PM
showing off your basketball knowledge there huh? they me someone who does. now when a guy only takes 6 shots u think because he was gun shy and "no post moves" or does he only take 6shots BECAUSE HE'S PASSING IT OUT BECAUSE HE'S FREAKING TRIPLE TEAMED!!!!!! like he average 25 and 15 on LA so lets not act like this isnt the same guy.you guys have obviously done something for him to have a bad night. and it damn sure wasnt 1 on 1 coverage in which we were leading at that point. like u guys won a game,good deed.loss in a loss wheter its by 1 or 40.game2 sunday

agreed :clap:

EX-TREME
06-06-2009, 03:00 PM
showing off your basketball knowledge there huh? they me someone who does. now when a guy only takes 6 shots u think because he was gun shy and "no post moves" or does he only take 6shots BECAUSE HE'S PASSING IT OUT BECAUSE HE'S FREAKING TRIPLE TEAMED!!!!!! like he average 25 and 15 on LA so lets not act like this isnt the same guy.you guys have obviously done something for him to have a bad night. and it damn sure wasnt 1 on 1 coverage in which we were leading at that point. like u guys won a game,good deed.loss in a loss wheter its by 1 or 40.game2 sunday

:clap: good post. he was swarmed by the defense and we couldn't hit our shots. but give the lakers some credit for the Defense the were playing. i expect stan make some adjustment for game 2

Hotone1401
06-06-2009, 04:30 PM
:clap: good post. he was swarmed by the defense and we couldn't hit our shots. but give the lakers some credit for the Defense the were playing. i expect stan make some adjustment for game 2

I expect Stan to panic.

lakers sqaud
06-06-2009, 04:31 PM
Honestly, it's only a matter of time. He's already top 3 no questions asks. He's clearly better than Wade and Kobe simply because of the impact he has at his position. I had him at 3rd best behind James and CP3, but he's looking better than CP3.

man this guy is whacked,he showed up in our forum bashing kobe...but anyway I have it like this u can agree or disagree 1-kobe 2-james 3-wade 4Howard 5-CP3...thats my top 5 as I see them right now~!:smoking:

EX-TREME
06-06-2009, 05:09 PM
I expect Stan to panic.

:pity:

lakerdc1
06-06-2009, 06:37 PM
showing off your basketball knowledge there huh? they me someone who does. now when a guy only takes 6 shots u think because he was gun shy and "no post moves" or does he only take 6shots BECAUSE HE'S PASSING IT OUT BECAUSE HE'S FREAKING TRIPLE TEAMED!!!!!! like he average 25 and 15 on LA so lets not act like this isnt the same guy.you guys have obviously done something for him to have a bad night. and it damn sure wasnt 1 on 1 coverage in which we were leading at that point. like u guys won a game,good deed.loss in a loss wheter its by 1 or 40.game2 sunday

WOW... Let's start off by clearing this up... The Lakers both played single coverage and sent double teams. They primarily played single while showing the double to Howard to try to confuse him. Watch the quick dives and returns to shooters by players on the strong side. The point of that isn't to actually double, but to bait him into picking up his dribble while the perimeter defenders have already returned to their man and cut off passing lanes.

As for Howard's regular season numbers... Let's get this straight NOW! Nelson killed the Lakers with his dribble penetration. He created the inside out game and forced bigs to rotate to him leaving Howard open on dunks. The regular season had nothing to do with Game 1 because the Lakers had injuries at the point leaving only D-fish to play the position in both games. With Nelson not ready to play at an all-star level and the Lakers much deeper at point than 5 months ago, this is a very different series.

As much as you guys want Howard to be great, he isn't there yet. He is one of my favorite players in this league, but his footwork is a mess. Shaq had some of the best footwork in the NBA and was extremely fundamentally sound on the block. Right now, Dwight is Ben Wallace circa 2002 with mad hops. That's about it. He's not a top 5 player. Not close. Duncan, and Yao are both better centers even now... and by a large margin. I say that by defining "best" by skills possessed and not by potential.

MagicBucsSox
06-06-2009, 10:06 PM
WOW... Let's start off by clearing this up... The Lakers both played single coverage and sent double teams. They primarily played single while showing the double to Howard to try to confuse him. Watch the quick dives and returns to shooters by players on the strong side. The point of that isn't to actually double, but to bait him into picking up his dribble while the perimeter defenders have already returned to their man and cut off passing lanes.

As for Howard's regular season numbers... Let's get this straight NOW! Nelson killed the Lakers with his dribble penetration. He created the inside out game and forced bigs to rotate to him leaving Howard open on dunks. The regular season had nothing to do with Game 1 because the Lakers had injuries at the point leaving only D-fish to play the position in both games. With Nelson not ready to play at an all-star level and the Lakers much deeper at point than 5 months ago, this is a very different series.

As much as you guys want Howard to be great, he isn't there yet. He is one of my favorite players in this league, but his footwork is a mess. Shaq had some of the best footwork in the NBA and was extremely fundamentally sound on the block. Right now, Dwight is Ben Wallace circa 2002 with mad hops. That's about it. He's not a top 5 player. Not close. Duncan, and Yao are both better centers even now... and by a large margin. I say that by defining "best" by skills possessed and not by potential.


ok duncan is a pf, oberto is the center and kurt thomas
now to this yao thing,like where is yao a BETTER PLAYER? WOW he's more offensively sound- so is okur,bogut,Z, like you can go on, but DWIGHT HAS THEM BEAT IN ALL CATEGORIES EXCEPT FT%, yao is nowhere better than dwight. and yao's the #1 option on his team unlike dwight, and to say he's ben wallace when wallace never average 10ppg in his life just shows how full of ***** you r

Hotone1401
06-07-2009, 02:05 AM
:pity:

I'm sorry haha! I couldn't resist!!

lakerdc1
06-07-2009, 06:04 AM
ok duncan is a pf, oberto is the center and kurt thomas
now to this yao thing,like where is yao a BETTER PLAYER? WOW he's more offensively sound- so is okur,bogut,Z, like you can go on, but DWIGHT HAS THEM BEAT IN ALL CATEGORIES EXCEPT FT%, yao is nowhere better than dwight. and yao's the #1 option on his team unlike dwight, and to say he's ben wallace when wallace never average 10ppg in his life just shows how full of ***** you r

Tim Duncan is a center... Sorry to break it to you. The fact that San Antonio lists him at PF so that he wouldn't have to wait till shaq or yao died to start an all-star game doesn't change the fact that he is a center. Also, Tim Duncan was the CENTER listed on the all defense 2nd team this year, so apparently the NBA doesn't think he's a PF.

Yao is better than Howard... Sorry. He is not nearly as athletic, but it doesn't change the reality that he is more skilled.

I know it is devastating to face reality, but Howard isn't there yet. He has AWFUL footwork. He relies entirely on strength and quickness and the lack of quality bigs in the NBA allows him to be successful that way. He will improve. I believe that. I think he will one day be among the greats, but at this point he is an athletic freak playing above his skis.

As far as Dwight beating them in all categories... Stats are cute and all, but they don't define greatness. How you accumulate those numbers is the important thing. Howard doesn't have the skill set to beat guys enough ways to be in the same category as Duncan. I'm glad his team's style of play allows for him to score at a nice rate, but if you can't look at the reality of the difference between SA and Orlando's offensive styles, I can't help you. This argument is just silly because there isn't anything to debate. You are trying to argue that a 2nd team all-defensive player with 4 titles and the best set of offensive skills of any big in the league is somehow inferior to your 2 move pogo stick. It's a joke.

EX-TREME
06-07-2009, 08:04 AM
I'm sorry haha! I couldn't resist!!

it's cool :cool:

rapjuicer06
06-07-2009, 08:48 AM
i don't think howards in the top 5 in the nba....but comparing him to ben wallace was flat out moronic...

MagicBucsSox
06-07-2009, 10:45 AM
Tim Duncan is a center... Sorry to break it to you. The fact that San Antonio lists him at PF so that he wouldn't have to wait till shaq or yao died to start an all-star game doesn't change the fact that he is a center. Also, Tim Duncan was the CENTER listed on the all defense 2nd team this year, so apparently the NBA doesn't think he's a PF.

Yao is better than Howard... Sorry. He is not nearly as athletic, but it doesn't change the reality that he is more skilled.

I know it is devastating to face reality, but Howard isn't there yet. He has AWFUL footwork. He relies entirely on strength and quickness and the lack of quality bigs in the NBA allows him to be successful that way. He will improve. I believe that. I think he will one day be among the greats, but at this point he is an athletic freak playing above his skis.

As far as Dwight beating them in all categories... Stats are cute and all, but they don't define greatness. How you accumulate those numbers is the important thing. Howard doesn't have the skill set to beat guys enough ways to be in the same category as Duncan. I'm glad his team's style of play allows for him to score at a nice rate, but if you can't look at the reality of the difference between SA and Orlando's offensive styles, I can't help you. This argument is just silly because there isn't anything to debate. You are trying to argue that a 2nd team all-defensive player with 4 titles and the best set of offensive skills of any big in the league is somehow inferior to your 2 move pogo stick. It's a joke.


so i guess dwade or kobe is a pg because they're both the G's on tge all nba 1st team. and if he's listed at pf by his own team he's a damn pf then. but i guess u kno more then greg popovich.


and i love how people downplay stats to favor them selves in an argue when STATS are your way into the HOF. not just rings or how people like you but stats. STATS do define your greatness moron

lakerdc1
06-07-2009, 01:50 PM
so i guess dwade or kobe is a pg because they're both the G's on tge all nba 1st team. and if he's listed at pf by his own team he's a damn pf then. but i guess u kno more then greg popovich.


and i love how people downplay stats to favor them selves in an argue when STATS are your way into the HOF. not just rings or how people like you but stats. STATS do define your greatness moron

huh? Wade and Kobe are both guards and are listed as guards... The league doesn't distinguish between the 1 and 2 positions in their voting... Both are guard positions.

Duncan is a center... why is this hard? Pop plays him at center... He is defended by and defends centers... It is simply a means of ensuring he gets recognition since one of the all time greats and most popular players in the league was playing the same position in the same conference. Its not that hard. He came into the league playing along side a center so he was listed a PF and they kept it that way so that he could continue to be an all-star starter.

STATS are not your way into the hall of fame! T-mac will not be in the HOF, Vince Carter will not be in the HOF, Spencer Haywood is not in the HOF, Bernard King is not in the HOF and he averaged 33pt/game in 84-85... STATS do not get you in the HOF. It is your impact on the game. Dwight will be a HOFer because of his overall impact on the game, but at this point NOT because of his offensive prowess. Besides... He's too young to put that on him. He'll develop an offensive game and then he'll be one of the greatest players of all time.

lakerdc1
06-07-2009, 01:56 PM
i don't think howards in the top 5 in the nba....but comparing him to ben wallace was flat out moronic...

Maybe you are young... not sure. Ben Wallace, defensively, had every bit the impact on a game that AI had offensively and was equally as valuable to his team. It is hardly a slight to compare the impact that Howard has to that of Wallace. Ben couldn't finish around the rim and wasn't an extraordinary athlete like Howard, but their impact on the game defensively is very similar. There is nothing moronic about comparing two of the great defensive players of our lifetime who both have limited offensive skill sets (granted Wallace had considerably less skill than Howard).

rapjuicer06
06-07-2009, 02:30 PM
Maybe you are young... not sure. Ben Wallace, defensively, had every bit the impact on a game that AI had offensively and was equally as valuable to his team. It is hardly a slight to compare the impact that Howard has to that of Wallace. Ben couldn't finish around the rim and wasn't an extraordinary athlete like Howard, but their impact on the game defensively is very similar. There is nothing moronic about comparing two of the great defensive players of our lifetime who both have limited offensive skill sets (granted Wallace had considerably less skill than Howard).

that, my friend, is why its a moronic statement. howard facing up on anyone can take on anyone...so he's not as limited as what you may think

lakers sqaud
06-07-2009, 07:47 PM
Maybe you are young... not sure. Ben Wallace, defensively, had every bit the impact on a game that AI had offensively and was equally as valuable to his team. It is hardly a slight to compare the impact that Howard has to that of Wallace. Ben couldn't finish around the rim and wasn't an extraordinary athlete like Howard, but their impact on the game defensively is very similar. There is nothing moronic about comparing two of the great defensive players of our lifetime who both have limited offensive skill sets (granted Wallace had considerably less skill than Howard).

dwight can not be conpared 2 Ben wallace...please:no:

ManRam
06-07-2009, 09:19 PM
This series is reconfirming my suspicion. Big bodies=average Dwight.

Perk and now the Lakers bigs are doing a great job on Dwight. I think the Cleveland series was just a taste of his potential, and not really a testament to how good he currently is. Z is garbage. Dwight abused him. Average defenders can still quiet Dwight Howard. He is faaaar from the best player in the league...this series is showing that, yet again.

IndiansFan337
06-07-2009, 11:19 PM
Honestly, it's only a matter of time. He's already top 3 no questions asks. He's clearly better than Wade and Kobe simply because of the impact he has at his position. I had him at 3rd best behind James and CP3, but he's looking better than CP3.

He's the best at his position.


But we all know that he can't do it by himself. Someone has to get him the ball down low. Remember him calling out SVG when he wasn't getting enough shots? That's because he needs them to run plays that get him the ball on the block. Guys like LeBron, Kobe & Chris Paul make plays happen.

I don't think that you can really compare those types of players to Howard.

AllTheWay
06-07-2009, 11:23 PM
Ehh Howard sorta disappeared in OT...

MagicBucsSox
06-08-2009, 12:12 AM
its hard to not DISSAPEAR when your pg's arent in the game to get you the ball, and your swarmed by 4 guys

MagicBucsSox
06-08-2009, 12:18 AM
This series is reconfirming my suspicion. Big bodies=average Dwight.

Perk and now the Lakers bigs are doing a great job on Dwight. I think the Cleveland series was just a taste of his potential, and not really a testament to how good he currently is. Z is garbage. Dwight abused him. Average defenders can still quiet Dwight Howard. He is faaaar from the best player in the league...this series is showing that, yet again.

dude your like the worst magic fan, if you cant see 4-5 lakers jerseys on him whenever he touches the ball you must be blind, people never guarded shaq this way, hakeem,ewing robinson etc this way because the people around them were making shots unlike whats goin on in orlando now

ps....... f**kin courtney lee blew 2 gw layups tonight, why on earth is he 6-5 for ???????????// the entire team needs to dunk more instead of these dumbass layups.

geoffizfoshiz
06-08-2009, 02:21 AM
showing off your basketball knowledge there huh? they me someone who does. now when a guy only takes 6 shots u think because he was gun shy and "no post moves" or does he only take 6shots BECAUSE HE'S PASSING IT OUT BECAUSE HE'S FREAKING TRIPLE TEAMED!!!!!! like he average 25 and 15 on LA so lets not act like this isnt the same guy.you guys have obviously done something for him to have a bad night. and it damn sure wasnt 1 on 1 coverage in which we were leading at that point. like u guys won a game,good deed.loss in a loss wheter its by 1 or 40.game2 sunday

Shaq was doubled, tripled, and hacked at by pretty much everyone on the court. Same with Timmy D. And your going to tell me that Howard only got off 6 shots because he was facing this kind of defense? That's not a bad excuse if you are an average center trying to make a name for yourself. But we are in a topic here where he is being discussed as the top player in the nba. Sorry, but 6 shots isn't going to cut it, I don't care how many people are on them.

Make excuses all day if you'd like.

5-10 tonight? And you Einsteins wanna call him the best player in the NBA? Come on now, you are embarassing yourself. Big players make big plays when the game is on the line. They don't leave it up to a rookie. It's hard to call Howard the best player in the NBA when he isn't even the best on his team right now.

Frezhnitz
06-08-2009, 11:19 AM
It be kobe, lebron, wade, dwight, carmelo

ManRam
06-08-2009, 12:14 PM
dude your like the worst magic fan, if you cant see 4-5 lakers jerseys on him whenever he touches the ball you must be blind, people never guarded shaq this way, hakeem,ewing robinson etc this way because the people around them were making shots unlike whats goin on in orlando now

ps....... f**kin courtney lee blew 2 gw layups tonight, why on earth is he 6-5 for ???????????// the entire team needs to dunk more instead of these dumbass layups.

Just because i'm not blind doesn't mean I'm a bad Magic fan. I HATE how Howard can do no wrong. It's always everyone else's fault. That is complete bull ****. If he's our best player, he needs to act like it. Right now, on offense, he's our 3rd or 4th option at best.

Dwight is extremely overrated by Magic fans, and I hate it. He is so average on offense it isn't funny. The good thing he did last night was pass the ball. If you're doubled and tripled all night, pass it to open shooters, instead of taking horrible shots. He had 7 turnovers. He took so many bad shots. Yes, he is getting doubled and tripled, but every great player is double and tripled, and still can score.

There's a reason he never gets the ball in the 4th quarter- because he isn't reliable enough on offense. He is not a go-to scorer. If you're not a go-to scorer, you're not even close to being int he discussion of best in the league.

And if you seriously think he's getting more attention than any other big man ever, you are absolutely, positively senile...or 9 years old. Remember the Boston series???? Single teamed, the whole series. The Lakers committed to doubling last night, and only occasionally did it in game 1, where he sucked too.

He did everything well last night, like defense, rebounding, PASSING, FT shooting...but he can't do anything offensively, and turned the ball over way too much late in the game.

rapjuicer06
06-08-2009, 02:50 PM
Just because i'm not blind doesn't mean I'm a bad Magic fan. I HATE how Howard can do no wrong. It's always everyone else's fault. That is complete bull ****. If he's our best player, he needs to act like it. Right now, on offense, he's our 3rd or 4th option at best.

Dwight is extremely overrated by Magic fans, and I hate it. He is so average on offense it isn't funny. The good thing he did last night was pass the ball. If you're doubled and tripled all night, pass it to open shooters, instead of taking horrible shots. He had 7 turnovers. He took so many bad shots. Yes, he is getting doubled and tripled, but every great player is double and tripled, and still can score.

There's a reason he never gets the ball in the 4th quarter- because he isn't reliable enough on offense. He is not a go-to scorer. If you're not a go-to scorer, you're not even close to being int he discussion of best in the league.

And if you seriously think he's getting more attention than any other big man ever, you are absolutely, positively senile...or 9 years old. Remember the Boston series???? Single teamed, the whole series. The Lakers committed to doubling last night, and only occasionally did it in game 1, where he sucked too.

He did everything well last night, like defense, rebounding, PASSING, FT shooting...but he can't do anything offensively, and turned the ball over way too much late in the game.

wow, there is no way your a magic fan. you must be a poser. when you pass the ball out AND THEY CAN'T MAKE OPEN SHOTS you kind of take it on yourself to score. if people start making open shots he won't be doubled and will start scoring. wow, be a magic fan for a second son....or change your team

ManRam
06-08-2009, 03:10 PM
wow, there is no way your a magic fan. you must be a poser. when you pass the ball out AND THEY CAN'T MAKE OPEN SHOTS you kind of take it on yourself to score. if people start making open shots he won't be doubled and will start scoring. wow, be a magic fan for a second son....or change your team

I'm not a Magic fan. Why? Because I'm not on Howard's dick all the time? Because he isn't my favorite Magic player? Because I don't always act like he can do no harm? Because I am not content with his ****** performance? Because I don't want to blame everyone but him?

Being a fan doesn't mean you always say good things about players or the team. He hasn't been good at all. I'm not going to act like it's okay.

He's sucked this series offensively. He is an average offensive player. He has not mid range game, he has not game past 5 feet out. When he has to dribble, he's a turnover machine. Unless he gets it under the hoop, he's not a great scorer. Perk held him in check. The Lakers are holding him in check. Star players never get held in check offensively as much as Howard. He never passes. His hook shot is awful. His touch is awful.

He's a superstar. He's a top 5 player overall. By far the best defender in the league. He's just not good enough offensively yet...and I hate watching it. It's frustrating to see someone so talented and gifted have such little offensive skill. People whine about how he never gets the ball late in games. There is a reason he never gets the ball...he's a FT liability and he's not a go-to scorer. I just think people need to stop acting like he is a go-to scorer. Once they do, I'll stop acting like such a Howard-hater, even though most every non-Magic fan agrees with my logic.

rapjuicer06
06-08-2009, 03:53 PM
look i see what your saying, but if your the lakers why the hell would you guard anyone other than dwight? lewis showed up last night, but MP, Alston, Lee when their in the game their shooting soo bad that the lakers don't have to guard them. so they go down a strip howard of the ball. so yes, it is partly howards fault, but its also the fault of our shooters missing everything-

lakerdc1
06-08-2009, 06:11 PM
Everyone needs to get off Howard's back. I know that Orlando fans have built him up to be the greatest player in the world, but he's not. That doesn't mean he will never get there. That doesn't mean that you can't be proud of what he is now. I said it before and got ridiculed over it, but Howard's greatest impact is on the defensive end. On that side of the ball, he impacts the game the way Ben Wallace did in his prime. That is a great compliment!! And given his youth, that is a tremendous accomplishment.

Young players are rarely able to understand the level of intensity that it takes to dominate the defensive side of the ball. Dwight gets it! He will someday develop offensively, but he doesn't have the skill at this point to do the things you guys are demanding of him.

This is kind of an odd series for Lakers fans because, honestly, of all the eastern conference teams Orlando is probably most LA fans favorites. There is really very little to dislike about your players. And that is true of Dwight. Next to Kobe he is my favorite player. Try not to be so hard on him for things he can't do. He's only going to get better.

ManRam
06-08-2009, 07:40 PM
Everyone needs to get off Howard's back. I know that Orlando fans have built him up to be the greatest player in the world, but he's not. That doesn't mean he will never get there. That doesn't mean that you can't be proud of what he is now. I said it before and got ridiculed over it, but Howard's greatest impact is on the defensive end. On that side of the ball, he impacts the game the way Ben Wallace did in his prime. That is a great compliment!! And given his youth, that is a tremendous accomplishment.

Young players are rarely able to understand the level of intensity that it takes to dominate the defensive side of the ball. Dwight gets it! He will someday develop offensively, but he doesn't have the skill at this point to do the things you guys are demanding of him.

This is kind of an odd series for Lakers fans because, honestly, of all the eastern conference teams Orlando is probably most LA fans favorites. There is really very little to dislike about your players. And that is true of Dwight. Next to Kobe he is my favorite player. Try not to be so hard on him for things he can't do. He's only going to get better.

Why? Should I not be hard on Adonal Foyle for things he can't do? Should I never act like he has any flaws?

We all know he's going to get better, but that doesn't mean I should be content with where he is now and get off his back. He has obvious flaws, and I'm not going to ignore them, whether or not I think he'll fix those flaws or not.

He's been in the league for 5 years now. He's been working with Ewing for years now. His offensive game has gotten slightly better, but he isn't where he should be if people are going to call him a super star, or an MVP candidate, or a go-to scorer. Especially that last one...he's not even close to a go-to scorer.

BWBuffet
06-08-2009, 07:58 PM
1. Kobe - excellent help defender, great perimeter defender, excellent finisher at the basket, excellent mid range J, good three point shooter, excellent post up game, great ball handler, good passer, great free throw shooter, decent rebounder, he's clutch. His game has no significant weaknesses.

2. LeBron - excellent help defender, decent perimeter defender, one of the game's premier finishers at the basket, average mid range J, decent three point shooter, average post up game, great ball handler, great passer, decent free throw shooter, good rebounder, he's clutch. Must improve perimeter D, and his midrange J, and become a more efficient three point shooter, a better free throw shooter, and rely less on his athleticism.

3. D. Wade - great help defender, good perimeter defender, one of the game's premier finishers at the hoop, good mid range J, decent three point shooter, excellent post up game, good ball handler, good passer, good free throw shooter, decent rebounder, he's clutch. Must become more of a threat behind the arc and learn to utilize his reckless abandon more wisely.

4. Carmelo - decent help defender, decent perimeter and post defender, excellent finisher at the hoop, excellent mid range J, great three point shooter, great post up game, good ball handler, decent passer, great free throw shooter, good rebounder, he's clutch. Must commit on the defensive end, like he did in the playoffs this year, and look to create shots for his teammates more.

5. Dwight - the premier help defender in the league, good post defender, one of the game's premier finishers near the basket, no mid range J, no three point shot, decent post up game, below avg ball handler, avg passer, below average free throw shooter, the game's premier rebounder, hasn't proven to be clutch. Must improve ball handling, passing, and free throw shooting, must develop a respectable mid range J and counters to his initial post moves, must improve offensive basketball IQ and rely less on his athleticism to beat double and triple teams, must improve defensive basketball IQ and rely less on his athleticism to stay out of foul trouble.

6. CP3
7. D-Will
8. Yao
9. Bosh
10. Billups
T. Parker

ko8e24
06-08-2009, 08:37 PM
Dwight Howard is no where near being the best player in basketball because of his offensive game (or lack thereof).

There are 4 guys in this league that are great offensively and defensively (d-wade, kobe, kg and duncan). And I mean real offense, not just ramming into people in the paint and getting 25 free throw attempts (aka lebron)

That'd being said, by looking at his attitude, he seems to be a real hard worker and I have no doubt that within 3 yrs, he will join those 4 guys. He already plays exceptional defense, and he is going to get better in that department no doubt. I don't think patrick chewing is the right guy for him, since all he really did his entire career was shoot that 18 foot baseline jumper most of the time and didn't have a TRUE offensive game down low.

But yes, Dwight Howard will be in the discussion in 3 years.

ko8e24
06-08-2009, 08:39 PM
Oh and Magic fans, I just joined PSD a couple of days ago, so I just wanted to introduce myself and wanted to wish you guys good luck the rest of the finals.

lakerdc1
06-08-2009, 10:31 PM
Why? Should I not be hard on Adonal Foyle for things he can't do? Should I never act like he has any flaws?

We all know he's going to get better, but that doesn't mean I should be content with where he is now and get off his back. He has obvious flaws, and I'm not going to ignore them, whether or not I think he'll fix those flaws or not.

He's been in the league for 5 years now. He's been working with Ewing for years now. His offensive game has gotten slightly better, but he isn't where he should be if people are going to call him a super star, or an MVP candidate, or a go-to scorer. Especially that last one...he's not even close to a go-to scorer.

He's also spent the last 3 summers playing for his country rather than dedicating himself to personal improvement.

I'm not asking you to ignore his faults... I'm asking that you don't condemn him for them at this point in the season. For god sake you made it to the NBA Finals! Even if you don't win, at 23 years old, that is extraordinary! Demand he improve, but seriously give him some credit for what he has done.

Hotone1401
06-09-2009, 02:47 AM
dude your like the worst magic fan, if you cant see 4-5 lakers jerseys on him whenever he touches the ball you must be blind, people never guarded shaq this way, hakeem,ewing robinson etc this way because the people around them were making shots unlike whats goin on in orlando now

ps....... f**kin courtney lee blew 2 gw layups tonight, why on earth is he 6-5 for ???????????// the entire team needs to dunk more instead of these dumbass layups.

First off, there were never 4 to 5 Laker players swarming him and I think that was a bit of an exaggeration lol. Second, Shaq has seen every defense there is and has been triple-teamed for most of his career. The only difference is that Shaq was so big that he muscled his shots in anyway. Shaq was a better passer and a much smarter player than Dwight but I'm sure Dwight will pick it up as he matures.

What the Lakers are doing is just smart defense. I'm sure Phil and the coaching staff are using some tactics that he learned would be effective against a player of his type since he and Shaq are pretty similar. The Lakers send at most 3 different defenders to Howard but it's the manner in which the do it that is confusing him.

ManRam
06-09-2009, 10:20 AM
First off, there were never 4 to 5 Laker players swarming him and I think that was a bit of an exaggeration lol. Second, Shaq has seen every defense there is and has been triple-teamed for most of his career. The only difference is that Shaq was so big that he muscled his shots in anyway. Shaq was a better passer and a much smarter player than Dwight but I'm sure Dwight will pick it up as he matures.

What the Lakers are doing is just smart defense. I'm sure Phil and the coaching staff are using some tactics that he learned would be effective against a player of his type since he and Shaq are pretty similar. The Lakers send at most 3 different defenders to Howard but it's the manner in which the do it that is confusing him.

Shaq could bring 2-3 guys up with him and dunk the ball. He was a much more ferocious dunker. Howard is a great dunker, but believe it or not, not as powerful as Shaq was. His hands are part of the reason. Dwight's hands are horrendous.

Magic fans can just credit the defense, but I feel like that's just giving up. Whether or not he's being doubled or tripled, he still should be scoring a lot more, especially if he's a top 5 player in the league.

Moosie Doom
06-09-2009, 04:26 PM
Howard is an exciting young player, but he is a long way from being the best player in the league.

DayZ
06-10-2009, 12:33 AM
best center? yes


best player. no

reason? defend him well and he will miss


defend kobe well and 60/40 kobe will make the shot

rapjuicer06
06-10-2009, 12:48 AM
all i'm going to say is the best player in the league isn't the best because he shoots the best. the best player in the league is the complete player of the league. good shooter, good defender, good rebounder and good passer. now i have no idea who that person is, most likely kobe. but its impossible to say someone is the best, each guy brings something different to the game...thats just what i think about it

ManRam
06-10-2009, 12:59 AM
best center? yes


best player. no

reason? defend him well and he will miss


defend kobe well and 60/40 kobe will make the shot

I agree with what you are saying to some extent. It is easier to stop Howard than it is to stop Kobe...just look at how inconsistent Howard has been in these playoffs. But if Kobe is 60/40 to make a shot when defended...why is he a career 47% shooter, and not a career 70% shooter??? Exaggerate much???

At adding on to rapjuicer...

Howard is top 5 because of his defense, and his presence. He is the best defender in the league. He does make things easier for his teammates. The only thing holding him back from being the best is the fact that he isn't a go-to scorer yet. Once he develops go-to scorer offensive skills, then you can start to debate whether or not he's the best. Until then, he isn't the best...and is far from it. Kobe, LeBron and Wade are all top 10 defenders, and top 10 offensive players. Howard is top 1 defense, but not even close to top 10 offense...that's why he isn't the best.

Lakersfan2483
06-10-2009, 02:08 AM
Honestly, it's only a matter of time. He's already top 3 no questions asks. He's clearly better than Wade and Kobe simply because of the impact he has at his position. I had him at 3rd best behind James and CP3, but he's looking better than CP3.

:eyebrow: He's a great player, but he's not better than Wade or Kobe.

MagicBucsSox
06-10-2009, 11:10 AM
:eyebrow: He's a great player, but he's not better than Wade or Kobe.

i concur with you,hell i dont even think he's a 10 big man offensively but no center average nothing better than him, thats letting you kno how great his game gonna be. next thing he'll get with time is a higher bball IQ,the gets gets alotta dumb fouls like reaching in etc,if he gonna get a foul it should be from putting someone on their azz

rapjuicer06
06-10-2009, 01:12 PM
:eyebrow: He's a great player, but he's not better than Wade or Kobe.

their uncompareable.....all you can say is kobe is arguably the best guard in the league, and dwight is one of the best big man....its impossible to compare apples to oranges....you can't say this is the best apple, and then someone goes no its not, my orange is better...makes no sense