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View Full Version : If Dwight wins a Title/MVP THIS Year.....



Chronz
05-27-2009, 01:56 PM
How much does it elevate his status in the pantheon of great big-men?


By that I mean if this is the pinnacle of his career and the rest of his career is solid nothing elite or bad, but he has this ring, does he have a greater career than the following bigs:

Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, David Robinson, Moses Malone?

Master Mind
05-27-2009, 01:58 PM
How much does it elevate his status in the pantheon of great big-men?


By that I mean if this is the pinnacle of his career and the rest of his career is solid nothing elite or bad, but he has this ring, does he have a greater career than the following bigs:

Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, David Robinson, Moses Malone?

Your sig is awesome dude!

marlinsfan24
05-27-2009, 01:58 PM
Everyone on that list except David Robinson

what54!?
05-27-2009, 01:58 PM
I wouldn't put him there yet. He's become a beast but he doesn't have the longivity that that they had. He's definitely not over robinson, both malones, and ewing yet.

sp1derm00
05-27-2009, 01:59 PM
I think it all depends on the rest of his career. It sure gives him a great shot at being better than those players.

JordansBulls
05-27-2009, 02:07 PM
How much does it elevate his status in the pantheon of great big-men?


By that I mean if this is the pinnacle of his career and the rest of his career is solid nothing elite or bad, but he has this ring, does he have a greater career than the following bigs:

Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, David Robinson, Moses Malone?

He will be considered better than Alonzo perhaps but not the other guys. The other guys were constantly top 5 players in the league yearly. How long has Dwight been considered a top 5 player in the league?

Chronz
05-27-2009, 02:12 PM
Solid reasoning, had a feeling hed be better than Alonzo, Im on the fence as to whether this puts him above Ewing. But the rest he would need a few seasons where hes ruling the NBA to be in there class

MagicBucsSox
05-27-2009, 02:12 PM
hahahha moses malone though? the other guys i agree but moses malone? lol

jimbobjarree
05-27-2009, 02:15 PM
stay thristy my friends

kozzer
05-27-2009, 02:15 PM
Not over any of those listed (except for Mourning) yet. You can't fault Ewing or Karl Malone for not having rings when they happened to be in the league at the same time as Jordan and Olajuwan. Especially Jordan.

Chronz
05-27-2009, 02:15 PM
hahahha moses malone though? the other guys i agree but moses malone? lol

Think of it as a grade scale, Zo as great as he was, is step 1, moving gradually to the top of the class where Moses resides (Only 1 title). He marks the beginning for the GREATEST bigmen of All-Time IMO, once Dwight reaches that point we can start comparing him to the Duncans and Dreams of the world.

BenFrank
05-27-2009, 02:41 PM
By the end of his career if he got 1 ring he will be considered better than all those guy's except Robinson.. and he would still have a chance to be better than him, if his career goes somewhere down the line of shaq's

Big Zo
05-27-2009, 03:08 PM
No, because we all know he's on roids. :)

superkegger
05-27-2009, 03:08 PM
If he wins the title and MVP, he'll be well on his way to that class of all time great C's. He won't be there if he does it but if he does, oh my, he'll be headed toward the shaq, hakeem, russel, kareem wilt territory. Notice, I said he'll won't be there with a title this year, but it's not unfathomable to think if he can win a DPOY at 23, and a title and finals MVP at 23, he'll have a ****ing amazing career ahead of him.

Vinny642
05-27-2009, 03:10 PM
Chronz that sig is freaking hilarious, but to the thread. My opinion won't change on Dwight if he wins it this year, if he doesn't im not going to say I think he is garbage.

montazingmvp
05-27-2009, 05:26 PM
i would say not over any of them yet...even if he wins a title and mvp...

its just not fair to compare...what great bigs has dwight had to compete against outside of maybe yao...

and he relies way more on his teammates than any of those other guys...dwight isn't really a #1 offensive option...he has to be given the ball close to the basket if he's going to score...

alonzo is the only one you could really have case for...but right now its not even close to the other guys imo

MPScribbles
05-27-2009, 05:36 PM
Oddly enough I think he is still too raw to be in the category of any of those guys- except moses malone, he played before my time so I can't compare the two. I think that if Howard can develop an actual post game then the sky is the limit with the absolute lack of quality centers in the league today. The other guys on that list played in approximately the same era where there were far more good bigs and they were tested more often. I think that Howard looks amazing against a lower level of competition and therefore people start anointing him as one of the best. He is one of the best today, 15 years ago I think that he would have not even been making all star games.

Chronz
05-27-2009, 05:40 PM
Do you guys think Dwight can drastically improve his offensive game? Is scoring touch around the rim really something you can learn?

Missing56&33
05-27-2009, 05:46 PM
Do you guys think Dwight can drastically improve his offensive game? Is scoring touch around the rim really something you can learn?

DH has come a long way from game 5 of the Boston series, hes playing at a higher level. It seems like hes learning how to elevate his game. If he wins a championship this year, yes hes in that group of centers. He wont stop there either....if he wins he'll get three or four rings. Im impressed.

Playing unbelievable basketball right now

Missing56&33
05-27-2009, 05:48 PM
yes he can improve his scoring touch around the rim as well.

Chronz
05-27-2009, 06:01 PM
DH has come a long way from game 5 of the Boston series, hes playing at a higher level. It seems like hes learning how to elevate his game. If he wins a championship this year, yes hes in that group of centers. He wont stop there either....if he wins he'll get three or four rings. Im impressed.

Playing unbelievable basketball right now

You really think Dwight is undergoing some evolutionary transformation right now, or is it just the fact that hes being matched up against incompetent defenders? I mean Sonic fans werent praising Jerome James after 1 series were they? Im not sold on the idea that Dwight is doing anything different, hes stepped up from the free throw line in the clutch and should be commended for that, but Im guessing this is just a random occurrence and the real transformation will be seen in the ensuing years.

GSW fan
05-27-2009, 06:25 PM
no

MickeyMgl
05-27-2009, 06:31 PM
How much does it elevate his status in the pantheon of great big-men?


By that I mean if this is the pinnacle of his career and the rest of his career is solid nothing elite or bad, but he has this ring, does he have a greater career than the following bigs:

Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, David Robinson, Moses Malone?

Not automatically by itself. Not greater than Robinson or the Malones. Probably greater than Mourning and Ewing, just on the strength of a championship and steady, solid career.

MickeyMgl
05-27-2009, 06:36 PM
He will be considered better than Alonzo perhaps but not the other guys. The other guys were constantly top 5 players in the league yearly. How long has Dwight been considered a top 5 player in the league?

I assumed he was describing the rest of Howard's career to be more or less where it is now, so I took it as him being a top 5 for years to come, but never on top.

Short of that, I'd agree with you. One championship will not by itself elevate him past Ewing (and definitely not past the others not named Mourning).

lakers4sho
05-27-2009, 06:37 PM
No because Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu had more to do with their success this playoffs.

GregOden#1
05-27-2009, 06:41 PM
Do you guys think Dwight can drastically improve his offensive game? Is scoring touch around the rim really something you can learn?

Howard now is much like Hakeem was in the late 80's early 90's. A good rebounder who plays solid but unrefined defense and offense that consists of using his athleticism to get by his defenders. It took Hakeem years to get his sweet post game and by the time that had happened he had lost a lot of his athleticism. Dwight is farther along than Hakeem was at 24 IMO, and he might just develop before him (even scarier is he might develop while he's still in his athletic prime).

SJSHARKIES
05-27-2009, 07:17 PM
If he wins the title, he will be headed towards that way, it's way too early to say that he will be in that class because he has to put up monster numbers over a long period of time bearing injuries and other setbacks. I don't see him slowing down, I see him only getting better, especially when he developes an interior game besides dunking. WATCH THE **** OUT.

JordansBulls
05-27-2009, 07:18 PM
Howard now is much like Hakeem was in the late 80's early 90's. A good rebounder who plays solid but unrefined defense and offense that consists of using his athleticism to get by his defenders. It took Hakeem years to get his sweet post game and by the time that had happened he had lost a lot of his athleticism. Dwight is farther along than Hakeem was at 24 IMO, and he might just develop before him (even scarier is he might develop while he's still in his athletic prime).

Dwight has 5 years in the league whereas Hakeem by the same time had only 3 years in the league.

Lakersfan2483
05-27-2009, 07:44 PM
How much does it elevate his status in the pantheon of great big-men?


By that I mean if this is the pinnacle of his career and the rest of his career is solid nothing elite or bad, but he has this ring, does he have a greater career than the following bigs:

Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, David Robinson, Moses Malone?

He would still need to accomplish a lot more in the NBA to move past the likes of M. Malone, Ewing, Robinson and Karl Malone. However, if he does win a title this year, he would move ahead of Alonzo Mourning, but he has a lot to accomplish in terms of surpassing the rest of the guys on the list.

ManRam
05-27-2009, 07:47 PM
I don't care what he does against Z, his offense is far from being at the point where he can even be mentioned with the names of those greats. I'm curious to see what he can do vs. the Lakers and Nuggets bigs. His offensive skills, when being guarded by anyone but Ilgauskus is very, very, very raw...to say the least. While he finally did something in the 4th quarter (actually OT), he is the Magic's like 6th option late in games. No all time great is anything but the #1 or #2 option.

GregOden#1
05-27-2009, 08:11 PM
Dwight has 5 years in the league whereas Hakeem by the same time had only 3 years in the league.

But Hakeem lost with home court advantage by that point.

superkegger
05-27-2009, 08:13 PM
Dwight has 5 years in the league whereas Hakeem by the same time had only 3 years in the league.

So Hakeem couldn't work on his game before he got to the NBA?

Missing56&33
05-27-2009, 08:19 PM
You really think Dwight is undergoing some evolutionary transformation right now, or is it just the fact that hes being matched up against incompetent defenders? I mean Sonic fans werent praising Jerome James after 1 series were they? Im not sold on the idea that Dwight is doing anything different, hes stepped up from the free throw line in the clutch and should be commended for that, but Im guessing this is just a random occurrence and the real transformation will be seen in the ensuing years.

Of course we have to wait and see what the future brings but IMO hes transforming right now....I can see it in his eyes the way he talks and his demeanor now. Stepping up and making your FT's when your a bad FT's shooter is a sign. Stepping up in the playoffs is a sign as well. Right now the best teams are in the conference finals so if incompetent defenders is not the case, because obviously the competent ones are not there, they are home watching.

Jerome James :confused: Where did that come from? I :pray: its not a comparison to DH????

Ironman5219
05-27-2009, 08:29 PM
I wouldn't put him there yet. He's become a beast but he doesn't have the longivity that that they had. He's definitely not over robinson, both malones, and ewing yet.

x2

Chronz
05-27-2009, 08:33 PM
Of course we have to wait and see what the future brings but IMO hes transforming right now....I can see it in his eyes the way he talks and his demeanor now. Stepping up and making your FT's when your a bad FT's shooter is a sign. Stepping up in the playoffs is a sign as well. Right now the best teams are in the conference finals so if incompetent defenders is not the case, because obviously the competent ones are not there, they are home watching.

Jerome James :confused: Where did that come from? I :pray: its not a comparison to DH????
If I followed that train of though you would think Big Z is a better defender than Perkins. I dont like where that logic takes me. No doubt hes stepping up now, but all it takes is one game of stepping down and your back where you were at.

Jerome James was an example of a player who went from a bum/afterthought to a guy who earned himself the full MLE from Isiah as a result of him exposing a weak interior in the playoffs. These kind of performances happen all the time, like Troy Hudson/Bibby vs the Lakers a few years back. Teams ended up grossly overpaying for their services based on the presumption that they arrived as players and that there peak form in the playoffs was a sign of things to come when in reality it was just a random variation based on matchups or luck.

THE MTL
05-27-2009, 08:40 PM
Hell NO! A championship ring does not determine the type of player are. All of these GREAT centers lead their team and were on great teams. Ewing went to three Finals & Malone went to a couple himself. Its not like they werent on good teams. A ring doesnt determine if they had the HEART of a champion.

Plus David Robinson & Moses Malone actually won rings!!!

Chronz
05-27-2009, 08:42 PM
Hell NO! A championship ring does not determine the type of player are. All of these GREAT centers lead their team and were on great teams. Ewing went to three Finals & Malone went to a couple himself. Its not like they werent on good teams. A ring doesnt determine if they had the HEART of a champion.

Plus David Robinson & Moses Malone actually won rings!!!

Hows this for a comparison then, how would Dwights championship run compare to D-Rob or Moses? Assuming the Magic continue to win ball games like they have.

MickeyMgl
05-28-2009, 03:08 PM
This is another reminder that Moses Malone may be the most underrated dominant NBA center in history.

3 MVPs, 2 trips to the Finals - including carrying one undermanned team way beyond expectations, and then one of the most dominant championship seasons of all time. Rebounding, scoring, etc.

He should not be a part of this discussion AT ALL.

Missing56&33
05-28-2009, 04:16 PM
If I followed that train of though you would think Big Z is a better defender than Perkins. I dont like where that logic takes me. No doubt hes stepping up now, but all it takes is one game of stepping down and your back where you were at.

Jerome James was an example of a player who went from a bum/afterthought to a guy who earned himself the full MLE from Isiah as a result of him exposing a weak interior in the playoffs. These kind of performances happen all the time, like Troy Hudson/Bibby vs the Lakers a few years back. Teams ended up grossly overpaying for their services based on the presumption that they arrived as players and that there peak form in the playoffs was a sign of things to come when in reality it was just a random variation based on matchups or luck.

still i hope your not comparing these guys to DH? There is obviously no comparison. Hes an all star and Olympian. I think your comparing them? :pity:

Chronz
05-28-2009, 05:05 PM
still i hope your not comparing these guys to DH? There is obviously no comparison. Hes an all star and Olympian. I think your comparing them? :pity:

Im comparing the boost in performance from their respective established norms. If a role player gos from that to looking like an All-Star, isnt it conceivable that an All-Star can look like a superstar, against an inferior front line.

Its like this, Dwight wasnt as bad as he looked against Perkins and hes not as good as hes looking against Zydrunas. If he is going through some kind of transformation then we will see the results pay dividends in the Finals, and through next year. Thats all Im really saying.

Missing56&33
05-28-2009, 05:27 PM
Im comparing the boost in performance from their respective established norms. If a role player gos from that to looking like an All-Star, isnt it conceivable that an All-Star can look like a superstar, against an inferior front line.

Its like this, Dwight wasnt as bad as he looked against Perkins and hes not as good as hes looking against Zydrunas. If he is going through some kind of transformation then we will see the results pay dividends in the Finals, and through next year. Thats all Im really saying.

OK I can agree with you that we have to wait and see about the transformation but lets leave James and Hudson out of this. With all due respect KP is an NBA champion the Celtics are the NBA reigning champions but DH is an all star and future hall of famer barring something bizarre happening.

I'll make a prediction right now , he plays his butt off tonight 25pts 20 rebs 5 blks in a win.

fishfan79
05-28-2009, 05:29 PM
zo is rough to consider he missed the prime of his career from a life threatening disease and still came back when the doctors and everyone said he wouldnt. He ended up playing well into the end of his career and got a championship too. If he never got healthy gotta wonder if he would of gotten a few more championships or at least competed into some finals.

The reason zo gets into the hall is his story it is an amazing and inspirational one a rare thing for basketball in the NBA a feel good one.

prodigy
05-28-2009, 05:30 PM
I think he needs to learn some more moves, and get a jumpshot. Just because he can move around a guy with bolts in his ankles does not mean he's elite lol.