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magichatnumber9
05-27-2009, 08:07 AM
Mike Brown Coach of the Year. More Like Fraud of the Year. This guy lets one of his assistants draw up the last play. Did anyone else notice that last night?

pebloemer
05-27-2009, 08:16 AM
Mike Brown Coach of the Year. More Like Fraud of the Year. This guy lets one of his assistants draw up the last play. Did anyone else notice that last night?

You can't use an example from the playoffs to evaluate an award that is based on the regular season. If you disagree with the award choice, that is fine, but at least argue based on the time period to which the award was given for.

Ilir
05-27-2009, 08:43 AM
I understand what your saying but being coach of the year implies that you make good desicions for your team throughout the game. I think that is what he getting at. IMO I never thought he should of gotten that award. And when it comes down to the final play I think i'd want the "coach of the year" to make up the play.

magichatnumber9
05-27-2009, 09:05 AM
I understand what your saying but being coach of the year implies that you make good desicions for your team throughout the game. I think that is what he getting at. IMO I never thought he should of gotten that award. And when it comes down to the final play I think i'd want the "coach of the year" to make up the play.
That is what I meant thank you. The last play should be drawn up by the head coach. He is the last line of accountability.

pebloemer
05-27-2009, 09:13 AM
I understand what your saying but being coach of the year implies that you make good desicions for your team throughout the game. I think that is what he getting at. IMO I never thought he should of gotten that award. And when it comes down to the final play I think i'd want the "coach of the year" to make up the play.

It states you "made" good decisions for your team during a fixed time period (the season). It could imply something further, and perhaps it should, but that is not the award. If it implied something beyond the season for which it is based, Jerry Sloan would not still be without the award and Sam Mitchell would have had no business winning it a couple years back.

I also think there were other better candidates during the season, but not because Mike Brown didn't write up the last play. For all we know, he could have been working with his assistants and one of them came up with this idea for a play and Mike Brown loved it. I think a great coach needs to rely on his assistants for different aspects of coaching as well. If you feel your assistant has the right play for a given circumstance, then I see no problem in them describing that play to the team.

He still remains the last line of accountability, and it is his choice if he likes his assistants' play.

EX-TREME
05-27-2009, 09:22 AM
i have no problem with mike brown winning the coy of the regular season. i would rather have svg or jerry sloan win it.

dbroncos78087
05-27-2009, 09:24 AM
So he isnt COY because he lets an assistant participate instead of assuming he knows everything about everything? Maybe the assistant saw something that he didnt. No one is all knowing after all. Otherwise they wouldnt have assistants.

Ilir
05-27-2009, 09:42 AM
It states you "made" good decisions for your team during a fixed time period (the season). It could imply something further, and perhaps it should, but that is not the award. If it implied something beyond the season for which it is based, Jerry Sloan would not still be without the award and Sam Mitchell would have had no business winning it a couple years back.

I also think there were other better candidates during the season, but not because Mike Brown didn't write up the last play. For all we know, he could have been working with his assistants and one of them came up with this idea for a play and Mike Brown loved it. I think a great coach needs to rely on his assistants for different aspects of coaching as well. If you feel your assistant has the right play for a given circumstance, then I see no problem in them describing that play to the team.

He still remains the last line of accountability, and it is his choice if he likes his assistants' play.


i agree with you. You have to trust your assistants and listen to them otherwise whats the point to having them there. I don't think Mike Brown should of gotten the reward regardless of what happened here in the playoffs. I just think there are many better coaches in the league. From what i've noticed the award seems to go to the team with the most wins. IMO this is just silly. Yea i said silly there really isnt a better word to describe it. When you watch the cavs all i see happening is isolation plays for LeBron and some pick and rolls. Or LeBron drives to the rim and dishes out but no real ball movement and no real plays that they run. At that point you have to look at the coach and ask what is he really doing?

This isnt something he can fix right now. Any team with a good coach should have 10-15 plays that they can call on as their team advances the ball up the court. the cavs lack that and that is why i think that he is undeserving of the award.

kozzer
05-27-2009, 10:07 AM
It wasn't the "Coach Of The Year" award that Mike Brown won. It was the "Lebron is on my team and we had the best record" award.

Ilir
05-27-2009, 10:10 AM
It wasn't the "Coach Of The Year" award that Mike Brown won. It was the "Lebron is on my team and we had the best record" award.



ding ding ding we got a winner.

LakerMikeNJ
05-27-2009, 10:11 AM
I would have given it to Rick Adelman. Rockets had a nice season considering the injuries, putting in a new PG, and having to keep Artest out of trouble. Mike Brown has the luxury of giving LBJ the ball each time down. Not much too it. As for the assistant drawing up the play, it was actually a pretty clean look so i can't use that against him. It's probably something they worked on in practice.

JJ_JKidd
05-27-2009, 10:12 AM
Hes simply outcoached

magichatnumber9
05-27-2009, 10:13 AM
Did you people watch the same game I did. I have no problem if the assistant designed the play. It should be the head coach in that huddle not an assistant. Not good leadership when your coach is outside the huddle looking scared. The previous few post prior do not apply i agree with you

JaySmoke
05-27-2009, 10:14 AM
mike brown is exposed.. he just has the best player on his team but hes not a good coach.. his assistant drew up more than that play at the end while brown was standing around, hes been doing that all year also his subs and defensive matchups for this game blew.....

stan van>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mike (lebron) brown

HOZ THE KNICK
05-27-2009, 10:26 AM
brown has no answers for orlando, lebron can't do it by himself.

IndyRealist
05-27-2009, 10:32 AM
They don't shut down coach hating threads?

Ilir
05-27-2009, 10:49 AM
They don't shut down coach hating threads?


why would they do that a forum is so poeple can discuss their beliefs on different points of the game. This one clearly has the title talking about how we believe that mike brown is not a coach worthy of the COY title. Welcoming other to agrue their beliefs.

kntresistheheat
05-27-2009, 10:54 AM
I dont know if you guys know, but Phil jackson did the same thing sometimes he use to let Tex write up some plays and tex came up with the triangle play and phil looks like a genius! I dont see a promblem letting your assistant write up a play....but I understand what you guys are saying. He should of atleast been involved in the play when your team is about to be down 3-1 in the playoffs and you just won the COY along with the best record in the league:rolleyes:

kozzer
05-27-2009, 11:03 AM
I dont know if you guys know, but Phil jackson did the same thing sometimes he use to let Tex write up some plays and tex came up with the triangle play and phil looks like a genius!"the triangle play"? HA!

That was an offense that Tex developed over years of coaching in college, and Jackson was looking for a way to get Jordan to pass the ball and get other players involved (since Jordan didn't like to pass when he could just score himself). It's not a "play", in fact there are no "plays" in the Triangle offense. It's a "scheme" that is based off reacting to what the defense does. This is why it's incredibly complicated and many players have a lot of trouble understanding what to do. You can't just memorize a playbook.

But I definitely agree that people shouldn't take issue with assistants drawing up plays during games. I don't hold that against Mike Brown, I just don't think he was the best coach in the NBA this season. As mentioned above Adelman had a much better year as a head coach as Brown.

Chronz
05-27-2009, 11:13 AM
Ive been telling you guys all year, what has he done different other than letting his assistant run the O?

Chronz
05-27-2009, 11:15 AM
I dont know if you guys know, but Phil jackson did the same thing sometimes he use to let Tex write up some plays and tex came up with the triangle play and phil looks like a genius! I dont see a promblem letting your assistant write up a play....but I understand what you guys are saying. He should of atleast been involved in the play when your team is about to be down 3-1 in the playoffs and you just won the COY along with the best record in the league:rolleyes:

Thats not the same thing, Phil so despised people thinking Tex was the architect behind his coaching mastery he had him removed from the bench for awhile. To his credit Brown doesnt have that kind of ego, but he shouldnt be rewarded for other peoples work.

Ilir
05-27-2009, 11:15 AM
Ive been telling you guys all year, what has he done different other than letting his assistant run the O?



lol i just had to say i love ur signature its hysterical

D-Leethal
05-27-2009, 11:26 AM
COY is a joke, it is either the coach of the most improved team or team with best record, alot of times the COY gets fired 2 years later like Sam Mitchell and Avery

lakersrock
05-27-2009, 11:29 AM
Pop should have won it this year. He had to depend on really young guys (and terrible guys) due to so many injuries and they still had a really good year. How Brown got it over Pop, Sloan, VG and even Del Negro given his super immature team.

kozzer
05-27-2009, 11:40 AM
Del Negro given his super immature team.Don't confuse correlation and causation. Del Negro had the Bulls playing hard, but other than that he was horrible all year (though he improved as time went on). Give him a couple years of success before mentioning him for the COY.

BTownTeamsRKing
05-27-2009, 11:56 AM
MVPs, COY, 6th man...all those voted awards dont mean anything to me.

the only award i like is the Finals MVP. these awards are voted on by biased writers.

brown doesnt do a damn thing. i could coach cleveland. wouldnt want to, but i could.

jimbobjarree
05-27-2009, 11:59 AM
he's so over rated its untrue

king4day
05-27-2009, 12:02 PM
If the Cavs come back to win this series, just be sure you create the thread stating how he IS worthy of the award.

jimbobjarree
05-27-2009, 12:06 PM
I doubt its him, if they came back it will be lead by James and his heroics

ShockerArt
05-27-2009, 12:12 PM
Pop should have won it this year. He had to depend on really young guys (and terrible guys) due to so many injuries and they still had a really good year. How Brown got it over Pop, Sloan, VG and even Del Negro given his super immature team.

Good call. Popovich did a great job this year. He really allowed Parker to take over that team with Manu being hurt and Duncan wearing down.

MagicBucsSox
05-27-2009, 12:23 PM
mike brown is a great coach. i knew this would come up. like he coach a 66 win team. this falls on DANNY FERRy not mike brown. ferry now knows his personel isnt good . i think them like everyone else got caught up in the hype and didnt realize how often we beat the cavs. nbA is about matchups and we have the components to beat this certain team. like the pistons have ours.

Weezy
05-27-2009, 12:28 PM
I always thought Mike Brown was a bad coach. Listen to the guy when he talks to one of the reporters. He sounds so ********. Its like uh dude...we couldve figured that out ourselves and we are just fans while you are the coach.

Missing56&33
05-27-2009, 12:34 PM
It wasn't the "Coach Of The Year" award that Mike Brown won. It was the "Lebron is on my team and we had the best record" award.

x2.... i think that assistant was drawing up the play for a reason...MB cant really coach....all he does is say good job, nice shot, way to go, last night to AV...you are the reason we are in overtime, you.....how stupid a comment was that? Lebron was the reason. :pity:

Missing56&33
05-27-2009, 12:39 PM
Did you people watch the same game I did. I have no problem if the assistant designed the play. It should be the head coach in that huddle not an assistant. Not good leadership when your coach is outside the huddle looking scared. The previous few post prior do not apply i agree with you

D'antoni wont do that in NY. ;)

BenFrank
05-27-2009, 12:44 PM
I would still give it to Rick Adleman, who came in 2nd.. did u see what he did with a undermanned Rocket's team, Brown has his full team healty plus home court advantage and can't seem to get the job done.. i agree it's the role player's fault's too, but I expect a head coach to run the offense and defense, and the defense which is what he specialized in.. isn't even lookin that great

~ShOrTy~
05-27-2009, 12:50 PM
All you guys that was on their bandwagon.....WHERE YOU AT NOW???
If...IF they do come back up and win 3 straight, then they proved you all wrong, including me. Saying he aint the coach of the year...and that he should'nt have won it..well if they lose, then ya can bring this Thread back up. But remember...Magicz still got 1 more win to go

what54!?
05-27-2009, 12:57 PM
mike brown is a damn good coach. He took the team he had and they won 66 games. Its the managament's job to bring in players to a team, not the coaching staff

ink
05-27-2009, 01:21 PM
They don't shut down coach hating threads?

This deserves an answer.

Seriously, if we shut down every hate thread what would be left?? :cool: That's how it feels sometimes ...

People have so much hate and resentment for other people's success. I don't know why that is in the NBA. That's what so many of the threads are about and it would be so good if the threads were more mature than that. We want quality in here.

At the same time, we have to leave threads like this open so people can reason through good explanations. There have been a few good posts from both sides in here, so we left it open.

But generally, you're right, we try to discourage hate threads.

ink
05-27-2009, 01:26 PM
mike brown is a damn good coach. He took the team he had and they won 66 games. Its the managament's job to bring in players to a team, not the coaching staff

I definitely don't think letting an assistant draw up a play is a sign of anything more than having the ability to delegate. If he was trying to take credit away from the assistant he would never let it be seen that the assistant was drawing up plays. He would do it in private and take all the credit. Whether people like the Cavs or Lebron or not, there's nothing wrong with showing that the assistant is central to your team's success like this. Brown is actually doing the opposite of what the complaint in this thread says ...

dabears34ft
05-27-2009, 01:38 PM
You gotta look beyond the records sometimes to realize the coach of the year. Mike Brown without Lebron isn't even a top 15 coach.

dabears34ft
05-27-2009, 01:49 PM
George Carl
Phil Jackson
Eric Spolestra
Jerry Sloan
Don Nelson
Rick Carlisle
Rick Adelman
Greg Popovich
Byron Scott
Stan VanGundy
Larry Brown
Lawrence Frank
Scott Skiles
Nate McMillan

These guys are all better coaches.

Hell even the job Vinny Del Negro did was more impressive. Mike Brown was lost in his press conference yesterday. I think he actually thinks that Phil Jackson tells Jordan and Kobe to just go out and win it by themselves, because he didn't know how to answer why Lebron presses so much late in games. Phil Jackson drew up plays that involved those guys, but he coaches the team.

Reyes6
05-27-2009, 01:50 PM
I never thought Mike Brown was a better coach than any coach in the Western Conference that had a playoff team this past year. He never showed any resilience after injuries or a tough trip, and the simple fact that he has LeBron really shows you don't necessarily need to be a great coach if you have (debatebly) the best player in the NBA on your team.

BUT , it is quite difficult to understand what a coach does in the locker room and off the court to see how he is beneficial to the team as a whole. Still, I thought coaches like Adelman, Sloan, and Van Gundy deserved it more.

lakersrock
05-27-2009, 03:34 PM
Don't confuse correlation and causation. Del Negro had the Bulls playing hard, but other than that he was horrible all year (though he improved as time went on). Give him a couple years of success before mentioning him for the COY.

I just think he fits with that team. Most coaches would have gotten themselves fired, but somehow, he got them to turn it around and his work with Noah is what impressed me the most. I was beginning to think bust (and I like him) and now he's been playing a lot better. Brown is a joke. With the way he coaches, I could coach them. Get me an offensive assistant and a defensive assistant and I'd be good too.

LA_Raiders
05-27-2009, 03:37 PM
Mike Brown Coach of the Year. More Like Fraud of the Year. This guy lets one of his assistants draw up the last play. Did anyone else notice that last night?

I agree, he got his O coordinator to call the play...

superkegger
05-27-2009, 03:42 PM
I see Mike Brown as the new Doug Collins.

Doug Collins took Michael and the Bulls to some success, but in 89-90 lost to the Pistons in the ECF. Doug Collins got the axe.

It takes a special coach, to coach a special player like LeBron. Mike Brown is not that man.

I would not be surprised if he got the axe if they do indeed go onto lose this series. I don't know who they would hire, but Mike Brown has never impressed me. I thought maybe I was wrong after this impressive regular season. But now, I am no longer fooled. Mike Brown appears to be a good coach because he has LeBron.

kozzer
05-27-2009, 03:46 PM
I just think he fits with that team. Most coaches would have gotten themselves fired, but somehow, he got them to turn it around and his work with Noah is what impressed me the most. I was beginning to think bust (and I like him) and now he's been playing a lot better. Brown is a joke. With the way he coaches, I could coach them. Get me an offensive assistant and a defensive assistant and I'd be good too.I agree with that stuff about VDN, and I didn't mean to imply that I don't think he will ever develop into a top-tier coach. Just not this year. But I must say that I was impressed with how he got everyone to play hard and mostly together all year. They blew quite a few games, but dammit they tried.

VDN just needs to actually have an offense. And a defense. And learn how to substitute. And how to manage time outs. Once he gets those down (and I believe you can learn those things with experience), he'll be a very good coach. I certainly think he has a chance going in to next year, with guys being healthy, Rose knowing the NBA ropes and the Gordon situation finally settled.

I hope it happens for him sooner (with the Bulls) rather than later (probably with another team).

kozzer
05-27-2009, 03:50 PM
I see Mike Brown as the new Doug Collins.

Doug Collins took Michael and the Bulls to some success, but in 89-90 lost to the Pistons in the ECF. Doug Collins got the axe. The Bulls lost to the Pistons in the ECF in both 1989 and 1990. The reason Collins didn't break through (in 1989 - his last year with the Bulls) was because he wanted to basically have Jordan do everything. Much like the Cleveland Lebrons now. Then Phil Jackson came in and had a huge struggle getting Jordan to buy in to the team-first concept (the triangle offense was put in because of this) and finally in 1991 Jordan did and they won the title.

Will Brown learn from Collins' mistakes? Time will tell. Although it definitely helps when you have guys like Horace Grant, Scottie Pippen and John Paxson (even more clutch than Jordan). The Cavs have noone of their caliber.

ink
05-27-2009, 03:52 PM
I see Mike Brown as the new Doug Collins.

Doug Collins took Michael and the Bulls to some success, but in 89-90 lost to the Pistons in the ECF. Doug Collins got the axe.

It takes a special coach, to coach a special player like LeBron. Mike Brown is not that man.

I would not be surprised if he got the axe if they do indeed go onto lose this series. I don't know who they would hire, but Mike Brown has never impressed me. I thought maybe I was wrong after this impressive regular season. But now, I am no longer fooled. Mike Brown appears to be a good coach because he has LeBron.

That may be, but the example used to start this thread was not a good one. A coach that delegates is not a bad coach, quite the opposite. That's what leadership is.

superkegger
05-27-2009, 04:00 PM
The Bulls lost to the Pistons in the ECF in both 1989 and 1990. The reason Collins didn't break through (in 1989 - his last year with the Bulls) was because he wanted to basically have Jordan do everything. Much like the Cleveland Lebrons now. Then Phil Jackson came in and had a huge struggle getting Jordan to buy in to the team-first concept (the triangle offense was put in because of this) and finally in 1991 Jordan did and they won the title.

Will Brown learn from Collins' mistakes? Time will tell. Although it definitely helps when you have guys like Horace Grant, Scottie Pippen and John Paxson (even more clutch than Jordan). The Cavs have noone of their caliber.

LeBron doesn't have the talent Michael did, but none the less, they showed they had the pieces around him to succeed this regular season. You don't win that many games on accident or by some fluke. The other Cavs just haven't shown up in the playoffs. But LeBron is a speical player, and I've never felt like Mike Brown had the offensive prowess to figure out how to develop an offense around him. And his offensive schemes have failed terribly when faced with a team that is their equal. Mike Brown isn't a good enough coach for LeBron, it's plain and simpl to me.


That may be, but the example used to start this thread was not a good one. A coach that delegates is not a bad coach, quite the opposite.

Well, either way, I just don't feel he's a good enough coach for LeBron. He just doesn't have the offensive prowess to figure out a system around LeBron. This series and the past 3 years or whatever have shown that.

Don Starks
05-27-2009, 04:00 PM
when the cavs made it to the finals a few years ago Brown was no match for Popovitch. the cavs have been pretty successful in recent playoff years but i feel like a lot of that success occurs when the cavs outplay other teams, not necessarily out coach them. maybe the problem the cavs are having with the magic isnt because Lebrons supporting cast isnt good enough, maybe it is Mike Brown. I mean the fact that there are mismatches doesnt mean you roll over and accept them, its the coaches job to change the line up and minimize the effect of those mismatches, am I wrong? what do you guys think of Mike Browns coaching?

IndyRealist
05-27-2009, 04:36 PM
why would they do that a forum is so poeple can discuss their beliefs on different points of the game. This one clearly has the title talking about how we believe that mike brown is not a coach worthy of the COY title. Welcoming other to agrue their beliefs.

Debating about whether someone deserved an award is one thing, calling someone a fraud is completely different.

ink
05-27-2009, 05:14 PM
debating about whether someone deserved an award is one thing, calling someone a fraud is completely different.

+1

magichatnumber9
05-27-2009, 10:44 PM
Lebron should have won coach of the year. I am not going to rescind calling this guy a fraud because I believe he is. Lebron learned how to coach in the Olympics from coach K and it payed huge for that team. I understand that delagating responsability is good leadership but durning that last huddle when the game is on the line your head coach should not be outside the huddle looking scared. That is poor leadership. BYE