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S.J.Basketball
05-25-2009, 05:32 PM
Interesting article. Thought it was worth a read.

Link: http://dailyme.com/story/2009052500000302/lebron-james-hype-control.html


ORLANDO, Fla. _ Now maybe it will stop.

Or at least slow down.

Now maybe we can turn on "SportsCenter" without hearing about how LeBron James might be the greatest thing to hit the NBA since birth control.

Hallelujah.

Now that the Magic beat the Cleveland Cavaliers 99-89 in Game 3 Sunday night at the amped-up Am, maybe somebody will turn down the volume on this limitless LeBron LeLovefest.

It's like listening to Barry Manilow singing "Mandy."

It's like listening to Stevie Wonder singing "I Just Called to Say I Love You."

It's like listening to Paul McCartney singing "Silly Love Songs."

Barf.

Yes, LeBron is a great player.

Yes, he hit a great shot Friday night in Game 2.

But from listening to all the hoopla, you'd think it was the greatest shot since William Tell split the apple sitting atop his son's head.

It's no wonder the raucous, roaring Magic fans Sunday night felt the whole world_ESPN, Nike, the NBA_was on LeBron's side. One fan even held up a sign that said: "Magic's 6th Man: The Fans. 'Cavs' Sixth Man: The Refs."

Seriously, have you ever seen so many invisible fouls? Dwight Howard fouled out on a phantom call on LeBron. Hedo Turkoglu was called for another. During a timeout while the Magic dancers were on the floor, LeBron actually walked right through the middle of their routine. Amazingly, none of the dancers was whistled for a foul.

Give the Magic credit. They are the only ones in the league who refuse to be LeBron's LeBootlicker. Gotta love Magic Coach Stan Van Gundy barking at his team and telling them to quit being LeBron's "witnesses" during Game 1. Or Dwight actually snarling at LeBron when the two got tangled up Sunday night.

This is why the Magic own the Cavs. This is why they have beaten them 10 of the last 14 times. They don't kneel down and kiss LeBron's Nikes. They may give him his points (41 on Sunday), but they don't give him their reverence.

Excuse me if I sound bitter about the LeBron LeBoosterism. True story: As Sentinel colleague Brian Schmitz and I were walking down an empty hallway in Cleveland's arena late Friday night after Game 1, a security guard started yelling at us: "Step to the side! Step to the side!"

What? . . . Was this some sort of emergency? Were EMTs rushing some fallen fan to the hospital?

Not exactly.

It was just LeBron being escorted to the media interview room. And, apparently, nobody occupies the same hallway as LeBron for fear the intruders might smush the rose petals being thrown at the king's feet.

Don't get me wrong, this is not LeBron's fault. He is an exceptional player, but the fawning fans, media and refs are making everybody sick of him. A classic case of LeBron LeBurnout Syndrome.

And if you haven't caught it, it's only because you haven't turned on ESPN since his buzzer-beater in Game 2. From hearing the commentators coo over him, you'd have thought LeBron had just scored the winning goal for the 1980 U.S. hockey team. The only thing missing was Al Michaels yelping, "Do you believe in miracles!"

Do you believe in hyperbole?

On ESPN Saturday, a radio host from Cleveland was interviewed about the magnitude of LeBron's shot. He actually said the shot was the greatest thing to happen to Cleveland sports since the Browns won the 1964 NFL championship. He went on to say LeBron's shot may have lifted the curse many Clevelanders believe has befallen their sports franchises.

One shot in Game 2 of a conference final against little 'ol' Orlando breaks a decades-long curse? Really? Coming soon: LeBron buzzer-beater fixes foreclosure crisis. Why is it when Rashard Lewis hit a game-winner, it's a good shot, but when LeBron hits one, it's a legendary shot?

A Google search of "LeBron shot" before Sunday's game netted headlines such as, "Has LeBron James overturned Kobe Bryant's legacy?" Or, "LeBron hits last-second shot that rivals Michael Jordan's."

Jordan and Kobe have nine championships between them, but LeBron hits a 3-pointer in Game 2 of the conference finals and suddenly he's somehow in the same class as two of the greatest champions of all time?

Stop it.

This LeBron LeBuildup is akin to Tim Tebow times 10. Like Tebow, we all recognize James as a great player and a good guy, but do we really need to hear the hyperbole ad nauseam? Remember when Fox announcer Thom Brennaman crooned during the national championship game, "If you're fortunate enough to spend five minutes around Tim Tebow, your life is better for it."

Gag.

The LeBron LeLovefest is even more out of control.

Except there is one difference between LeBron James and Tim Tebow:

Tebow has actually won a championship.

MiamiHeat
05-25-2009, 05:37 PM
people are finally realizing how much hype LeWhistle gets

MIKE BIANCHI is officially my favorite writer :clap:


During a timeout while the Magic dancers were on the floor, LeBron actually walked right through the middle of their routine. Amazingly, none of the dancers was whistled for a foul
:laugh2:

True story: As Sentinel colleague Brian Schmitz and I were walking down an empty hallway in Cleveland's arena late Friday night after Game 1, a security guard started yelling at us: "Step to the side! Step to the side!"

What? . . . Was this some sort of emergency? Were EMTs rushing some fallen fan to the hospital?

Not exactly.

It was just LeBron being escorted to the media interview room. And, apparently, nobody occupies the same hallway as LeBron for fear the intruders might smush the rose petals being thrown at the king's feet.

wow........:pity:

Don Starks
05-25-2009, 05:52 PM
all the hype makes me root against the cavs to be honest. i know its not their fault, nor is it lebrons, but if i have to hear about how lebrons the greatest player ever without doing anything i am going to puke. espn has a way of making everybody hate the greatest players in the game. i am glad espn wasnt as big as it is today during the jordan era, otherwise people would end up hating jordan.

dandman1021
05-25-2009, 05:54 PM
finally someone gets it....Lebron is a great player, but in no way he is the best thing to happen to the NBA

Chronz
05-25-2009, 05:56 PM
Yes a once in a generation player should never be revered...... the hype is out of control for a reason, the kid is insane, easily the best season thus far in anyones career. If he loses the series then it loses much of its luster, his teammates need to show up though.

Chronz
05-25-2009, 05:56 PM
finally someone gets it....Lebron is a great player, but in no way he is that good

He IS THAT GOOD

Reversed86Curse
05-25-2009, 05:56 PM
Totally agree... media and LeBron fans are way too far up his ***. You'd think from the hype he was the second coming of Christ

Chronz
05-25-2009, 05:57 PM
all the hype makes me root against the cavs to be honest. i know its not their fault, nor is it lebrons, but if i have to hear about how lebrons the greatest player ever without doing anything i am going to puke. espn has a way of making everybody hate the greatest players in the game. i am glad espn wasnt as big as it is today during the jordan era, otherwise people would end up hating jordan.
You obviously arent listening to ESPN and your making up false claims

marlinsfan24
05-25-2009, 05:58 PM
It's so much BS! I'm sick of hearing Lebron this, Lebron that.

jimbobjarree
05-25-2009, 06:00 PM
I cant watch espn here in england so its not as bad for me, but really, this is just stupid. The way the NBA hypes up its best players actually shocks me, we have nothing like that over here. I suppose after all this build up the NBA has to let Lebron equal Jordan's ring count or it'll make them look stupid

:sigh: another dynasty that nobody will be able to stop

madiaz3
05-25-2009, 06:02 PM
Yes a once in a generation player should never be revered...... the hype is out of control for a reason, the kid is insane, easily the best season thus far in anyones career. If he loses the series then it loses much of its luster, his teammates need to show up though.

uhh, what? if you're talking about the regular season then still, definitely not. if you mean the post season, then wait til its over before crowning any best seasons of any kind.

montazingmvp
05-25-2009, 06:02 PM
Yes a once in a generation player should never be revered...... the hype is out of control for a reason, the kid is insane, easily the best season thus far in anyones career. If he loses the series then it loses much of its luster, his teammates need to show up though.

not even close to the best season ever.

silvTeg98
05-25-2009, 06:06 PM
its about time someone writes about this BS. i cant even watch espn anymore because everything is about lebron.

Reversed86Curse
05-25-2009, 06:11 PM
uhh, what? if you're talking about the regular season then still, definitely not. if you mean the post season, then wait til its over before crowning any best seasons of any kind.

Just thinking the same thing, not even close to the top of any list. Actually, doesn't even look as good as last years stats....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?statsId=3704

Lakergirl24
05-25-2009, 06:12 PM
I read this article this morning and was so happy someone finally stepped up and admits it. I too thought its ridiculous that the guy hit his first game winning shot probably ever in the playoffs and suddenly analysts and sportscasters are talking about him becoming one of the best clutch players? He's allowed to crab dribble, plow over defenders, and goal tend. Defenders shouldnt even bother try and block his shots anymore because if they get all ball it will be called a foul. Point is, the guy has done nothing. Hes won nothing. He will get beat this year yet again, and watch the finals from his couch.

MJ-BULLS
05-25-2009, 06:13 PM
Interesting article. Thought it was worth a read.

Link: http://dailyme.com/story/2009052500000302/lebron-james-hype-control.html

great article :clap:

PhillyMac
05-25-2009, 06:16 PM
does noone else here enjoy listening about how great he is? honestly. the sport needs someone like him. i personally cant stand the nba, because of the lack of excitement. i would much rather watch college basketball. however, i always stop changing the channel when i c a cavs game on. theres something about him that noone else has, maybe his swag idk. but hes a great player and the game needs that

tr4shb0t
05-25-2009, 06:19 PM
vince carter

rocowear21
05-25-2009, 06:34 PM
Even though its a different sport the same thing is happening in hockey with Sidney Crosby. Even though he is a great player and being compared to gretzky like lebron is compared to Jordan give me a break. Fouls are never called on them and they never get a foul or penalty. Its like the league knows that these are the future and the crowd loves seeing these players play so we are gonna help them along alittle. Lets face it nobody wants to see lebron foul out of a close game and nobody wants to see crosby sitting in the penalty box in a close game. We all know these guys can make things happen.

lakers4sho
05-25-2009, 06:34 PM
vince carter

Exactly.

Iverson, Carter, McGrady, the list just goes on and on...

Missing56&33
05-25-2009, 06:38 PM
I think he deserves all the attention and press/media coverage hes getting. I can remember all the hype surrounding Lebron while he was in high school, the espn coverage, his HS games being televised and the hype surrounding him going straight to the pros from HS.

For a 17yr old kid to know that hes going to be a millionaire and major celebrity years before he becomes one, to keep his composure and exceed everyone's expectation far beyond our imaginations is remarkable. I give a tremendous amount of credit to his mother and family for keeping him humble and well grounded.

Lebron is really, really good, im impressed with these underhand shots he hitting from half court and circus shots from behind the basket before game during warm ups, the guy is playing with so much confidence. He deserves all the attention.

MJ use to get this type of attention, more so and he deserved as well.
But if Lebron becomes a knick the attention he gets will supercede what hes getting now by far.

MAC10TIZZY
05-25-2009, 06:40 PM
only the people defending him have it twisted......NOBODY...said he wasn't a great player or exciting to watch, its just he is being shoved down our throat's right now(no homo) im surprised you cant buy his sweat in a bottle...maybe this is elementary but even 2k9 sucks with him in it.. if you want a guranteed cheeze game play one of them lebron cheezers.......ugh....the phantom 3 seconds in the lane call, then the call where lee just looked at him and it was called,the block on dwight, the goal tend yesterday, the awesome block by dwight on lebron turns into foul 6, fouling out two out of three games against cleveland...last nite was the first time i have ever seen as much as 3 fouls on lebron

MiamiHeat
05-25-2009, 06:42 PM
I think he deserves all the attention and press/media coverage hes getting. I can remember all the hype surrounding Lebron while he was in high school, the espn coverage, his HS games being televised and the hype surrounding him going straight to the pros from HS.

For a 17yr old kid to know that hes going to be a millionaire and major celebrity years before he becomes one, to keep his composure and exceed everyone's expectation far beyond our imaginations is remarkable. I give a tremendous amount of credit to his mother and family for keeping him humble and well grounded.

Lebron is really, really good, im impressed with these underhand shots he hitting from half court and circus shots from behind the basket before game during warm ups, the guy is playing with so much confidence. He deserves all the attention.

MJ use to get this type of attention, more so and he deserved as well.
But if Lebron becomes a knick the attention he gets will supercede what hes getting now by far.

explain to me why?
yeah he's a great player and all but why does he deserve it?

MAC10TIZZY
05-25-2009, 06:45 PM
explain to me why?
yeah he's a great player and all but why does he deserve it?

my buddy from ft. lauderdale told me about this guy (drake) is he real big down south(no homo)

MiamiHeat
05-25-2009, 06:47 PM
my buddy from ft. lauderdale told me about this guy (drake) is he real big down south(no homo)

somewhat
he's just getting some airplay down here

GoatMilk
05-25-2009, 06:49 PM
One shot in Game 2 of a conference final against little 'ol' Orlando breaks a decades-long curse? Really? Coming soon: LeBron buzzer-beater fixes foreclosure crisis. Why is it when Rashard Lewis hit a game-winner, it's a good shot, but when LeBron hits one, it's a legendary shot?

A Google search of "LeBron shot" before Sunday's game netted headlines such as, "Has LeBron James overturned Kobe Bryant's legacy?" Or, "LeBron hits last-second shot that rivals Michael Jordan's."

Jordan and Kobe have nine championships between them, but LeBron hits a 3-pointer in Game 2 of the conference finals and suddenly he's somehow in the same class as two of the greatest champions of all time?

Stop it.

ok ok

Missing56&33
05-25-2009, 06:52 PM
explain to me why?
yeah he's a great player and all but why does he deserve it?

its his year, MVP, the speculation of his free agency, the way hes playing, prolly, no he is playing better than anyone right now. But he is the MVP of the league. Kobe got the same attention too at one point.

MiamiHeat
05-25-2009, 06:55 PM
its his year, MVP, the speculation of his free agency, the way hes playing, prolly, no he is playing better than anyone right now. But he is the MVP of the league. Kobe got the same attention too at one point.

last year Kobe never got the attention as big as Lebron this year, yeah okay his the MVP but has he won a ring yet for people to call him the King? to get as much as attention 24/7 on ESPN and all over?
no he doesn't deserve the hype and people are just realizing how much hype Lebron is getting

I understand you trying to be on Lebron's side because you are Knicks fan and all but
open your eyes and realize how much hype this guy is getting

Missing56&33
05-25-2009, 06:57 PM
explain to me why?
yeah he's a great player and all but why does he deserve it?

the way this guy is running down people from behind starting out way out of the play and flying through the air blocking shots its unbelievable. Hes replacing DH's superman status :)

sphinxvc
05-25-2009, 06:58 PM
:puke:

:puke:

:puke:

Mell413
05-25-2009, 07:01 PM
I read this article this morning and was so happy someone finally stepped up and admits it. I too thought its ridiculous that the guy hit his first game winning shot probably ever in the playoffs and suddenly analysts and sportscasters are talking about him becoming one of the best clutch players? He's allowed to crab dribble, plow over defenders, and goal tend. Defenders shouldnt even bother try and block his shots anymore because if they get all ball it will be called a foul. Point is, the guy has done nothing. Hes won nothing. He will get beat this year yet again, and watch the finals from his couch.

I could have sworn he hit some game winning shots against the Wizards and the Pistons a few years back. I was skeptical that he would live up to the hype and so far he has. Before it's all said and done he will go down as one of the greats. He has won an MVP so he has done something. Championships are team awards its hard to punish Lebron if he does not win one this year. Hes averaged like 40 pts in the conf finals so he is obviously doing his part.

montazingmvp
05-25-2009, 07:01 PM
the way this guy is running down people from behind starting out way out of the play and flying through the air blocking shots its unbelievable. Hes replacing DH's superman status :)

the only reason you know about these blocks is because espn plays it over and over and over...

plenty of other players in the nba do spectacular things just the same. problem is they don't make espn...

anthony randolph had some amazing blocks this year, more amazing than any block bron has had...he never made espn..

i'm not saying randolph is better than bron (obviously), but he and many other can make equally spectacular plays...

see here if you don't believe me...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whh9ZCFoYLQ

Missing56&33
05-25-2009, 07:01 PM
last year Kobe never got the attention as big as Lebron this year, yeah okay his the MVP but has he won a ring yet for people to call him the King? to get as much as attention 24/7 on ESPN and all over?
no he doesn't deserve the hype and people are just realizing how much hype Lebron is getting

I understand you trying to be on Lebron's side because you are Knicks fan and all but
open your eyes and realize how much hype this guy is getting

Well you do have a point he doesnt have a ring yet and thats what its all about. So i can understand that and yes i would like for him to be a knick but if he was not going to be a free agent i would say WOW, hes having a great year. But like i said hes on top of his game right now.

I think we can both agree that hes the best player skill wise right now to not have a championship?

magicbucs4eva
05-25-2009, 07:08 PM
could not have said it better myself

Missing56&33
05-25-2009, 07:08 PM
last year Kobe never got the attention as big as Lebron this year, yeah okay his the MVP but has he won a ring yet for people to call him the King? to get as much as attention 24/7 on ESPN and all over?
no he doesn't deserve the hype and people are just realizing how much hype Lebron is getting

I understand you trying to be on Lebron's side because you are Knicks fan and all but
open your eyes and realize how much hype this guy is getting

Maybe Kobe didn't get the same attention as Lebron is getting but MJ sure did. The guy had sneakers, commercials, so many endorsement deals and constantly compared to Magic and Bird and he couldn't get pass the Pistons so Lebron is following suit.

tr4shb0t
05-25-2009, 07:14 PM
the way this guy is running down people from behind starting out way out of the play and flying through the air blocking shots its unbelievable. Hes replacing DH's superman status :)

It's called goaltending...

Yes Lebron is athletic, but that doesn't automatically make you a basketball legend. He is certainly good, but he lacks some very critical things that will probably stop him from being a champion. Who knows...he has some time to work on it, but I think the things he is missing are part of his character and not part of his game.

No one really knows how good Lebron is because he gets so many calls that his stats are artificially inflated.

montazingmvp
05-25-2009, 07:19 PM
Maybe Kobe didn't get the same attention as Lebron is getting but MJ sure did. The guy had sneakers, commercials, so many endorsement deals and constantly compared to Magic and Bird and he couldn't get pass the Pistons so Lebron is following suit.

mj only started getting that attention when he avg'd 37ppg and put up 63 points against what was considered to be one of the best teams of all time...

so he earned it. lebron was crowned the king at the age of 17 before he played an nba game

Missing56&33
05-25-2009, 07:25 PM
mj only started getting that attention when he avg'd 37ppg and put up 63 points against what was considered to be one of the best teams of all time...

so he earned it. lebron was crowned the king at the age of 17 before he played an nba game

I dont think thats the case but if it is the case its even more impressive because hes been a 5x all star since being in the league. Everybody great gets a nickname his is KING i think its deserving.

montazingmvp
05-25-2009, 07:33 PM
I dont think thats the case but if it is the case its even more impressive because hes been a 5x all star since being in the league. Everybody great gets a nickname his is KING i think its deserving.

it most definitely is the case...jordan wasn't even taked 1st or 2nd in the draft...he missed his second season with a broken leg and then in his third season he had a break out year....jordan earned it...

lebron never had to...although now i believe he has...

shouldn't the king be a winner though...

Vinny642
05-25-2009, 07:34 PM
I agree with Lebrons hype, that block yesterday shouldn't of been a foul, and Dwight didnt deserve the T

harm0n1x
05-25-2009, 07:55 PM
-Why is it when Rashard Lewis hit a game-winner, it's a good shot, but when LeBron hits one, it's a legendary shot?

Because he hit it with 14 seconds still left on the clock. He didn't catch an inbound pass with one second left and do it.

Vinny642
05-25-2009, 07:57 PM
Because he hit it with 14 seconds still left on the clock. He didn't catch an inbound pass with one second left and do it.

Ur missing the point that he isn't the one of the NBA's Golden Children?

Missing56&33
05-25-2009, 08:01 PM
Ur missing the point that he isn't the one of the NBA's Golden Children?

but hes paid like one. :eyebrow:

theuuord
05-25-2009, 08:04 PM
uhh, what? if you're talking about the regular season then still, definitely not. if you mean the post season, then wait til its over before crowning any best seasons of any kind.

actually, there's a very strong argument for it... it was the best individual season by anyone not named Jordan, that's for sure.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 08:05 PM
Just thinking the same thing, not even close to the top of any list. Actually, doesn't even look as good as last years stats....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?statsId=3704

Yeah, if you have no idea how to look at them.

This past season was 100% LeBron's best overall season, and one of the best individual seasons of all time by anyone, period.

AllTheWay
05-25-2009, 08:14 PM
You're pretty ignorant if you believe James season can even look at Wilts seasons.

Wilson
05-25-2009, 08:17 PM
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this (I'm too lazy to read the thread), but it was completely un-necessary to have an LBJ interview take over half time of Lakers/Nuggets game three. I mean he's arguably the best player in the league, and he hit a great shot, but it's not like no-one's ever hit a game winner before!

lakers4sho
05-25-2009, 08:19 PM
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this (I'm too lazy to read the thread), but it was completely un-necessary to have an LBJ interview take over half time of Lakers/Nuggets game three. I mean he's arguably the best player in the league, and he hit a great shot, but it's not like no-one's ever hit a game winner before!

well duh he's LeBron James :rolleyes:

fairandbalanced
05-25-2009, 08:19 PM
LOL..the Lakers/Denver are about to play..........but the analysts are only talking about Lebron James. They put Lebron's game 2 winning shot in the same category with Jordan's winning shot versus Jazz. LOL.....this is getting amazing by the minute.

Vinny642
05-25-2009, 08:21 PM
but hes paid like one. :eyebrow:

u mean lewis? yea that contract is big, but its not the nba that gave him the contract. NBA gave Lebron hype.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 08:22 PM
You're pretty ignorant if you believe James season can even look at Wilts seasons.

They can and do.

Wilt is one of the best players ever but he's so much a product of a) his era and b) his team basically giving him the ball to shoot every single time, even to the detriment of the team.

dodie53
05-25-2009, 08:23 PM
too much hype given to lebron,
atleast the nba doesn't give the cavs presents (gasol trade)
;)

championships
05-25-2009, 08:27 PM
Great article, Someone give that man a raise. Lebron is a great player, no denying that, But this guys over hyped exsposure gets ridiculous. At Lakers/Nuggets game 3 halftime show they interviewed Lebron and showed his shot about 15 times. I didn't want to see that, How about the half of bball that was just played. Some analysis or highlights of the first half of Lakers/Nuggets game.

Kaptain Kanada
05-25-2009, 08:33 PM
Beyond ******** now.... Stern and the boys in the NBA better be careful about how they handle their stars going forward, there is starting to be a lot of backlash from fans towards the players that are hyped so much.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 08:34 PM
Beyond ******** now.... Stern and the boys in the NBA better be careful about how they handle their stars going forward, there is starting to be a lot of backlash from fans towards the players that are hyped so much.

lol no there isn't.

maybe on rabid internet forums, but LeBron is still ricockulously popular nationally and globally.

Wilson
05-25-2009, 08:36 PM
lol no there isn't.

maybe on rabid internet forums, but LeBron is still ricockulously popular nationally and globally.

:laugh2: :laugh2:

Wilson
05-25-2009, 08:40 PM
well duh he's LeBron James :rolleyes:

Yeah I suppose so. I mean, he did invent the game of basketball...

NFLNBA
05-25-2009, 08:41 PM
Because he hit it with 14 seconds still left on the clock. He didn't catch an inbound pass with one second left and do it.

If they are going to base him as a god off that shot then he needs to brought down to Jesus and i guess that makes Derek Fisher God and the best player in the world! Pretty sure ive seen him hit game winners after game winners and im pretty sure he even hit 1 game winner with 0.4 sec on the clock? lol

The article is dead on! Im not saying Kobe is better then Lebron or Vise Versa but i do know they are #1 or #2 but i dont see Kobe getting whistles consistanly when someone just brushes him, watch tonights game and you'll see the refs alow his defender to be completly all over him also i see kobe get called for charges, but Lebron is so BIG and STRONG that its hard to call a charge on him? Please! Lebron is Ave 13 FT attempts a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kobe is ave 8 along with Billups, Melo and Howard. You give Kobe the calls Lebron gets and you would see a 40 point night every night.

Great article! Im so tired of hearing about the guy that im rootong for the Magic. I do have to admit though i love the new Nike Com with him and Kobe lol

Ni55anpat
05-25-2009, 08:44 PM
Great read

conway429
05-25-2009, 08:50 PM
They can and do.

Wilt is one of the best players ever but he's so much a product of a) his era and b) his team basically giving him the ball to shoot every single time, even to the detriment of the team.

Wilt had multiple seasons which were significantly better than LeBron's. You can make whatever argument you want about the era, but 50 points per game, and 25 rebounds per game are clearly the best seasons ever.

MJ also had multiple seasons which were better: more points, more rebounds, more assists, better FG%, better defence, and a championship.

Oscar Robertson put up numbers close to 30-10-10 for his first 5-8 years in the league. Certainly you'll admit his 2nd year in the league is one of the greatest of all-time, and better than Lebron's.

In 1987 Magic had monster numbers, as well as winning the league MVP, and the finals MVP. Kareem put up 35 PPG/16.6 RPG one year, and was league MVP. Around 2000, the Lakers were winning everything, and Shaq was dominating the league. A couple of those seasons were legendary.

It all depends on how the rest of the playoffs turn out. I think if the Cavs win it all, LeBron's season can be mentioned in the same category as Magic, Kareem and Shaq.
However, I'm not going to consider him anywhere near to Oscar, MJ or Wilt quite yet.

Blah Blah Blah
05-25-2009, 08:57 PM
I actually can't wait till the magic beat the cavs in the series then it wud shut every f@#%^n analyst and media member up and the Lebron love affair would die for about four months. This is getting ridiculous. Believe me..the magic will win this series.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 09:07 PM
Wilt had multiple seasons which were significantly better than LeBron's. You can make whatever argument you want about the era, but 50 points per game, and 25 rebounds per game are clearly the best seasons ever.

If I play 90 minutes a game and shoot every shot for my team, I could average 50 and 25. You can't just blurt out numbers with no context.

I'm not going to break this down extensively because I'm pretty tired and the Lakers game is on soon, but quickly: Wilt played in a league that had a pace almost 50% faster than the league today. It is astounding how different the game is. The average team in his 50 point season scored 119 points per game. Wilt's team had the distinction of being the team that both scored the most and gave up the most points that season, thus being the fastest team, thus having the most possessions, thus having the most opportunities to stat-pad.
Their team's philosophy was "give the ball to Wilt and let him shoot." He played every minutes of their season and basically just stood in the paint and threw up shots over smaller defenders. He had over 3,000 field goal attempts in the season. Think about that number for a second. He AVERAGED 40 shots a GAME.
You put Shaq in his shoes in the exact same context and he'd average 65 and 35.
Not to discredit Wilt, who is one of the best big men ever, but he gets a lot of these video game numbers from the era he lived in, and people today forget to adjust for that.



MJ also had multiple seasons which were better: more points, more rebounds, more assists, better FG%, better defence, and a championship.

MJ is the one guy who I think still has had better seasons than LeBron's last, but there's still an argument to be made. Also a context issue here: Not nearly as pronounced as Wilt's, but he did play on faster teams with more possessions.


Oscar Robertson put up numbers close to 30-10-10 for his first 5-8 years in the league. Certainly you'll admit his 2nd year in the league is one of the greatest of all-time, and better than Lebron's.

It is one of the greatest, but, not to sound like a broken record, but he played in a much faster game that allowed for more possessions and more stats to be attained. when you adjust for the context, again, LeBron's season comes out as more efficient.
John Hollinger had an article about this very comparison right after the season ended. They're introducing the Nuggets now so gametime is soon and I won't look it up for you, but I highly suggest it. It tells everything that I gloss over here pretty well.


In 1987 Magic had monster numbers, as well as winning the league MVP, and the finals MVP. Kareem put up 35 PPG/16.6 RPG one year, and was league MVP. Around 2000, the Lakers were winning everything, and Shaq was dominating the league. A couple of those seasons were legendary.

You're right, they were legendary.


It all depends on how the rest of the playoffs turn out. I think if the Cavs win it all, LeBron's season can be mentioned in the same category as Magic, Kareem and Shaq.
However, I'm not going to consider him anywhere near to Oscar, MJ or Wilt quite yet.

I'm talking solely individual regular season. If you include the playoffs so far, LeBron's season is actually better, considering how dominant he's been. As far as legacy goes, you're right that a title will be necessary, but in terms of pure production, no one has been better.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 09:07 PM
damnit where is chronz to help me with these arguments, my brain is fried as it is...

theuuord
05-25-2009, 09:09 PM
oh, for the lebron-oscar comparison:

bam
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1423

J$mo0th_3o5
05-25-2009, 09:28 PM
actually, there's a very strong argument for it... it was the best individual season by anyone not named Jordan, that's for sure.

What are you smoking!!! Wade had a better individual season than Lebron. Now don't get me wrong Lebron's season was really good, but Wade's was great. Call me homer all you want but I bet many people say Wade had a better individual season than Lebron.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 09:33 PM
What are you smoking!!! Wade had a better individual season than Lebron. Now don't get me wrong Lebron's season was really good, but Wade's was great. Call me homer all you want but I bet many people say Wade had a better individual season than Lebron.

nah yo, but thanks for playing.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 09:36 PM
+1 before you go on a tangent calling me a Wade hater, imo Wade is the 2nd best player in the league. Yes, ahead of Kobe. (Great, now Kobe haters will ride me. Can't win either way.)

J$mo0th_3o5
05-25-2009, 09:46 PM
nah yo, but thanks for playing.

Ok whatever that's just my opinion.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 09:47 PM
Ok whatever that's just my opinion.

can you defend it?

(note: if you defend it, i'm not countering it until halftime.)

madiaz3
05-25-2009, 09:50 PM
How was Lebron's season last year not better than his this year?

Vinny642
05-25-2009, 09:53 PM
can you defend it?

(note: if you defend it, i'm not countering it until halftime.)

Individually I might have to agree with what J$mo0th_3o5 said with wades seasons being better, yea lebron did his thing but so did his team. Wade was all alone. Its note like Lebron destroyed Wades season or vice versa but Wade was top 10 in blocks and steals, number 1 in PPG and assisted alot. Also led his team from a 15 win season to w/e he got now.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 09:55 PM
How was Lebron's season last year not better than his this year?

i could go really deep and prove it 100% for you, but since i'm tired and watching this game really closely (another nene dunk!) i'll just say look at per-minute and rate production instead of taking his numbers at face value.
that and the whole 66 wins thing.

montazingmvp
05-25-2009, 10:03 PM
If I play 90 minutes a game and shoot every shot for my team, I could average 50 and 25. You can't just blurt out numbers with no context.

I'm not going to break this down extensively because I'm pretty tired and the Lakers game is on soon, but quickly: Wilt played in a league that had a pace almost 50% faster than the league today. It is astounding how different the game is. The average team in his 50 point season scored 119 points per game. Wilt's team had the distinction of being the team that both scored the most and gave up the most points that season, thus being the fastest team, thus having the most possessions, thus having the most opportunities to stat-pad.
Their team's philosophy was "give the ball to Wilt and let him shoot." He played every minutes of their season and basically just stood in the paint and threw up shots over smaller defenders. He had over 3,000 field goal attempts in the season. Think about that number for a second. He AVERAGED 40 shots a GAME.
You put Shaq in his shoes in the exact same context and he'd average 65 and 35.
Not to discredit Wilt, who is one of the best big men ever, but he gets a lot of these video game numbers from the era he lived in, and people today forget to adjust for that.




MJ is the one guy who I think still has had better seasons than LeBron's last, but there's still an argument to be made. Also a context issue here: Not nearly as pronounced as Wilt's, but he did play on faster teams with more possessions.



It is one of the greatest, but, not to sound like a broken record, but he played in a much faster game that allowed for more possessions and more stats to be attained. when you adjust for the context, again, LeBron's season comes out as more efficient.
John Hollinger had an article about this very comparison right after the season ended. They're introducing the Nuggets now so gametime is soon and I won't look it up for you, but I highly suggest it. It tells everything that I gloss over here pretty well.



You're right, they were legendary.



I'm talking solely individual regular season. If you include the playoffs so far, LeBron's season is actually better, considering how dominant he's been. As far as legacy goes, you're right that a title will be necessary, but in terms of pure production, no one has been better.

there is no argument to be made that lebron has had better season than mj ever did...the year mj avg'd 32ppg 8apg and 8rpg...his team avg'd 106ppg on .495fg%...the reason they scored so much is because that team was extremely efficient. not because they were playing at a ver fast pace...

not even sure what this stat means but maybe you do...the bulls pace factor was 97 which was the 23rd slowest...

and i like how you totally disregard that the rules in the league have changed since mj has left to benefit guards and wing players...why is it you never mention that?

and on top of that pace is sort of irrelevant (with scoring)..when you can simply look at the efficiency a player is scoring at, that is more important than anything, and jordan has been a much more efficient scorer than lebron...lebron is yet to post a fg% higher than .50%

theuuord
05-25-2009, 10:09 PM
there is no argument to be made that lebron has had better season than mj ever did...the year mj avg'd 32ppg 8apg and 8rpg...his team avg'd 106ppg on .495fg%...the reason they scored so much is because that team was extremely efficient. not because they were playing at a ver fast pace...

not even sure what this stat means but maybe you do...the bulls pace factor was 97 which was the 23rd slowest...

and i like how you totally disregard that the rules in the league have changed since mj has left to benefit guards and wing players...why is it you never mention that?

because MJ was given every break in the world. He deserved it, because he was the best player ever, but he got away with more than anyone in his era. He relied a lot on the carry, which is now illegal in basketball.

Besides MJ, like I've said twice now, is probably the only guy that even adjusting for pace has had better individual seasons than LeBron did this year. And that is because, again, he's the best player ever.

Pace factor is the average of how many possessions a team plays per game. 97 means that in an average game, the Bulls played 97 possessions back and forth with their opponents. The Cavs have a pace factor of 89 this season, which means that the Bulls averaged 8 more possessions per game in their era.
That doesn't sound like a lot but over the course of a season is a huge difference.

Do me a favor. Read this article, and I mean really read it, and sink it in, and understand all of its words. That'll describe my argument far better than I can right now.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090324

theuuord
05-25-2009, 10:14 PM
reply to edit:

and on top of that pace is sort of irrelevant (with scoring)..when you can simply look at the efficiency a player is scoring at, that is more important than anything, and jordan has been a much more efficient scorer than lebron...lebron is yet to post a fg% higher than .50%

Dude are you trying to prove to me that MJ is better than LeBron? Because if you are, you're seriously just looking for an argument. Because I've said a million times that MJ is the best player ever. No one will disagree with you there, at least not for a long time.

But that being said, pace is sooooo not irrelevant. At all.

madiaz3
05-25-2009, 10:14 PM
Can't discredit a season because Jordan got away with carrying while Lebron gets away with traveling.

If you want to take into account a team's record then there is absolutely no argument to be made for any of Lebron's seasons coming close to Jordan's 72-10 season.

montazingmvp
05-25-2009, 10:17 PM
reply to edit:


Dude are you trying to prove to me that MJ is better than LeBron? Because if you are, you're seriously just looking for an argument. Because I've said a million times that MJ is the best player ever. No one will disagree with you there, at least not for a long time.

But that being said, pace is sooooo not irrelevant. At all.

mj put up higher point totals because he was better at putting the ball in the basket than lebron, not because he had more possessions.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 10:17 PM
Can't discredit a season because Jordan got away with carrying while Lebron gets away with traveling.

If you want to take into account a team's record then there is absolutely no argument to be made for any of Lebron's seasons coming close to Jordan's 72-10 season.

I mean, I agree with you, but someone will note, uh, this season, which is a fair argument because the Cavs went 66-16 with basically just LeBron and a gang of decent players while the 72-10 Bulls had Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman.

I'm with you, just saying.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 10:19 PM
mj put up higher point totals because he was better at putting the ball in the basket than lebron, not because he had more possessions.

Again, dude, who are you arguing with? Is anyone disagreeing with you that MJ is better than LeBron? are you even reading what I'm saying? Can I just write anything here and you'll keep arguing a point against nobody? Are you paying attention to anything I've written?

montazingmvp
05-25-2009, 10:19 PM
lebron travels more than jordan, i know that for sure...the man has pretty bad footwork...

you could pick apart any game and find atleast 10 plays in which a player travels...people have been getting away with it forever...

don't think that should even be brought up...

and i'm arguing points that you made...not just arguing for arguments sake

montazingmvp
05-25-2009, 10:21 PM
i get that you think jordan is better than lebron...but you said that you could argue that lebron had a better season than mj ever did...that is what i'm doing? i'm arguing that point..you sort of asked for it

theuuord
05-25-2009, 10:21 PM
lebron travels more than jordan, i know that for sure...the man has pretty bad footwork...

you could pick apart any game and find atleast 10 plays in which a player travels...people have been getting away with it forever...

don't think that should even be brought up...

and i'm arguing points that you made...not just arguing for arguments sake

You're arguing that Jordan is a better scorer than LeBron.

Could you please point me to where I said LeBron was a better scorer than Jordan?

Could you please point me to where I said LeBron was a better player than Jordan, period?

Feel free to look for a while.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 10:22 PM
i get that you think jordan is better than lebron...but you said that you could argue that lebron had a better season than mj ever did...that is what i'm doing? i'm arguing that point..you sort of asked for it

I said you could. I didn't say I would, because I don't think it's true. But it's a point that is certainly defensible.

montazingmvp
05-25-2009, 10:24 PM
I said you could. I didn't say I would, because I don't think it's true. But it's a point that is certainly defensible.

ok, thats all i was really arguing...

OG "Dee" LOCc
05-25-2009, 10:30 PM
If Lebron wins championship = He deserves hype.

If lebron doesn't win championship = He didn't deserve hype.

We will find out soon.

I'm going for the latter

Kakaroach
05-25-2009, 11:03 PM
Of course he is getting overhyped he is King James. What else did you expect?

sciferguy
05-25-2009, 11:07 PM
Lebron had a great season but statistically still under quite a few other players seasons.

You absolutely cannot discredit someone's spectacular season because he had more "possessions per game".

I mean if you really want Lebron to have the greatest season ever just title your next thread LEBRON HAD THE BEST SEASON OF ANYBODY WHOSE TEAM HAD EXACTLY 89 POSSESSIONS PER GAME.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 11:10 PM
Lebron had a great season but statistically still under quite a few other players seasons.

You absolutely cannot discredit someone's spectacular season because he had more "possessions per game".

I mean if you really want Lebron to have the greatest season ever just title your next thread LEBRON HAD THE BEST SEASON OF ANYBODY WHOSE TEAM HAD EXACTLY 89 POSSESSIONS PER GAME.

Assuming all other things are equal,
If I'm on a team that plays 200 possessions a game, and I average 50 points per game,
and you're on a team that plays 50 possessions a game, and you average 45 points per game,

am I a better player?

smith&wesson
05-25-2009, 11:16 PM
Yes a once in a generation player should never be revered...... the hype is out of control for a reason, the kid is insane, easily the best season thus far in anyones career. If he loses the series then it loses much of its luster, his teammates need to show up though.

bro just stop it, lol stop the madness,
did you just start watching basket ball this year ??

james is mvp, great season but not the best season of any ones career,
i think jordan has a lil somthing to say about that, how bout oscar ? bill russle ? larry bird ? magic johnson ?? more up to date ? kobe has has some insane seasons, dwane wades season when he had shaq was unreal,
theres just too many to list,

ill give credit where its due though, james is right up there with that class and has had a great season considering his team isnt all that great. bunch of blue collar players if you ask me. they are good but not great.

sciferguy
05-25-2009, 11:20 PM
Assuming all other things are equal,
If I'm on a team that plays 200 possessions a game, and I average 50 points per game,
and you're on a team that plays 50 possessions a game, and you average 45 points per game,

am I a better player?

ok what if both players had the exact same shot attempts on both those teams then what?

You can't blame the player for being in a faster paced system.

What if you plugged in another player who put in as many shot attempts as lets say Wilt. Do you think they would have the stamina to even last all season or even be able to score as much? All your doing is stat fishing to prove your argument which theoretically makes absolutely no sense.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 11:22 PM
ok what if both players had the exact same shot attempts on both those teams then what?

They have equal usage rates - that is, they use the same percentage of their team's possessions. (Like I said, all other things equal.)

theuuord
05-25-2009, 11:27 PM
Edit reply:



You can't blame the player for being in a faster paced system.

What if you plugged in another player who put in as many shot attempts as lets say Wilt. Do you think they would have the stamina to even last all season or even be able to score as much? All your doing is stat fishing to prove your argument which theoretically makes absolutely no sense.

No, you don't blame the player for being in the faster paced system, but at the same time you don't discredit the other player for being in a slower system.
You need to adjust for context, period. The same goes for positive stats like points and negative stats like turnovers.
I'm not saying give one player extra credit, I'm saying give them the credit they deserve.

As for Wilt, he stood on the block and threw up shots over smaller defenders. It doesn't take a lot of stamina to do that. He's a great player but his video game stat seasons are not that amazing when all is taken into account.

The team mentality was "give the ball to Wilt and have him shoot it."
And he did. And he was above average as far as efficiency goes, but nothing like he gets credit for.
He's still a top 5 center all time.
I'm not sure why people are so bent out of shape for giving players the credit they actually deserve, instead of just taking numbers at face value. It's not stat fishing to want to compare players on an equal playing field. That's the definition of logic.

sciferguy
05-25-2009, 11:40 PM
How about this stat for you. For someone who plays for a team who has more possessions per game. You are saying that they are taking more shots which also means they are missing more shots as well right?

Well lets just say that there was another guy who's team averaged 89 possessions per game and shot .489

And there is another guy who shot .528 and had considerably more possessions per game.

Your telling me you are saying the .489 guy had a better season? With the same amount of possessions the .489 guy would not produce as many points. Therefore the .528 guy had a better season and this is only points wise mind you.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 11:42 PM
How about this stat for you. For someone who plays for a team who has more possessions per game. You are saying that they are taking more shots which also means they are missing more shots as well right?

Well lets just say that there was another guy who's team averaged 89 possessions per game and shot .489

And there is another guy who shot .528 and had considerably more possessions per game.

Your telling me you are saying the .489 guy had a better season? With the same amount of possessions the .489 guy would not produce as many points. Therefore the .528 guy had a better season and this is only points wise mind you.

We already made the MJ-LeBron comparison. And I'm already on the record as saying MJ has had better seasons. (Although an argument can be made.)

Please read before you reply. kthnx.


(+1 please stop using field goal percentage as the be-all-end-all for point production. that's a message to everyone. it's so ugly and uninformative. kthnxagain.)

sciferguy
05-25-2009, 11:47 PM
Well I didn't even use MJ's stats. The true value of a player is the PER yes but your discrediting points per game because some had more possessions per game. But if the guy is taking more shots and is shooting a better percentage, he had a much better ppg season than the guy shooting worse with less possessions.

I won't use MJ's stats because no1 compares to the real King.

I do give Lebron credit for being a great player but in no way should he be getting credit for any best evers yet.

theuuord
05-25-2009, 11:52 PM
Well I didn't even use MJ's stats. The true value of a player is the PER yes but your discrediting points per game because some had more possessions per game. But if the guy is taking more shots and is shooting a better percentage, he had a much better ppg season than the guy shooting worse with less possessions.

I won't use MJ's stats because no1 compares to the real King.

I do give Lebron credit for being a great player but in no way should he be getting credit for any best evers yet.

His season this season was one of the best individual seasons ever, without a doubt.

I'm not discrediting points per game. I'm adjusting points per game for game speed. You have to do that if you want to look at value equally. There is no way around that.

If player A plays more efficiently (notice I didn't say "shoots") than player B, it will reflect in his numbers regardless of pace. Looking at pace just helps you understand what you're looking at better.

And that's what we want, right? To be smarter?

montazingmvp
05-25-2009, 11:55 PM
We already made the MJ-LeBron comparison. And I'm already on the record as saying MJ has had better seasons. (Although an argument can be made.)

Please read before you reply. kthnx.


(+1 please stop using field goal percentage as the be-all-end-all for point production. that's a message to everyone. it's so ugly and uninformative. kthnxagain.)

its also illogical to completely disregard fg%...

theuuord
05-25-2009, 11:56 PM
its also illogical to completely disregard fg%...

No, you can basically completely disregard it. There are better percentage stats for rating shooting efficiency.
FG% is a good catch-all shooting stat, but numbers like eFG% and TS% are far better for pure shooting value.

montazingmvp
05-25-2009, 11:57 PM
and you're also not even taking into consideration the pct of the time the ball is in lebrons hands.... and i wouldn't be surprised if lebron dominates the ball more than anyother player in the history of the game...he seems to have the ball in his hands 80% of the time...there are a lot of stats you aren't taken into consideration yourself

montazingmvp
05-26-2009, 12:00 AM
No, you can basically completely disregard it. There are better percentage stats for rating shooting efficiency.
FG% is a good catch-all shooting stat, but numbers like eFG% and TS% are far better for pure shooting value.

wow dude...just wow...

you're telling me fg% doesn't matter at all...whether a guy puts the ball in the basket at a good fg% or a bad one...makes no difference...thats a stupid comment...

you do realize ts% is just fg and ft combined...lol

theuuord
05-26-2009, 12:00 AM
and you're also not even taking into consideration the pct of the time the ball is in lebrons hands.... and i wouldn't be surprised if lebron dominates the ball more than anyother player in the history of the game...he seems to have the ball in his hands 80% of the time...there are a lot of stats you aren't taken into consideration yourself

Um, you mean usage rate?

Because I mentioned that like six posts ago.

Dude, I seriously have to ask, are you just trying to start a random argument?

theuuord
05-26-2009, 12:03 AM
wow dude...just wow...

you're telling me fg% doesn't matter at all...whether a guy puts the ball in the basket at a good fg% or a bad one...makes no difference...thats a stupid comment...

you do realize ts% is just fg% and ft% combined...lol

No it's not. True Shooting Percentage calculates what a player’s shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers. True Shooting Percentage = (Total points) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44)]

That's not the same as field goals+free throws / field goals attempted+free throws attempted.

FG% itself doesn't really tell you anything about the player. If one guy shoots 40% but another shoots 50%, it looks like the second guy is better. But what FG% doesn't tell you is that all of the first player's shots are threes and all of the second player's shots are twos, thus being less efficient. That's what other numbers such as TS and eFG (and others) account for.

STAT1
05-26-2009, 12:10 AM
thank god. FINALLY!!! im sick of this lebron siht. i sware, this is a new deffinition for his back tattoo of "the chosen one". hes like the golden child and the rest of the world are step children.

montazingmvp
05-26-2009, 12:10 AM
Um, you mean usage rate?

Because I mentioned that like six posts ago.

Dude, I seriously have to ask, are you just trying to start a random argument?

you mentioned it....great..

now actually consider it when you're arguing the greatest seasons ever, for ex. with the oscar robertson lebron comparison...how much more often did lebron have the ball in his hands in comparison to oscar. or vice versa.

then put those stats in perspective

theuuord
05-26-2009, 12:14 AM
you mentioned it....great..

now actually consider it when you're arguing the greatest seasons ever, for ex. with the oscar robertson lebron comparison...how much more often did lebron have the ball in his hands in comparison to oscar. or vice versa.

then put those stats in perspective

Well you can't calculate exact usage rate before like 1972 I think because that's when the NBA started counting turnovers. But anyone will attest to the fact that Oscar had the ball in his hands a LOT, a la LeBron, in his time.

Jordan's career usage rate was 33.3. In his first five years it was closer to 35. LeBron's career rate at this point is 31.6, with 33.8 this year.

Bear in mind that this is not exactly the number you are looking for, this is the average percentage of team possessions used, not how many seconds the player has the ball (which point guards would dominate anyway, thus making it a kind of pointless stat).

theuuord
05-26-2009, 12:15 AM
And the entire point is that it's been considered.... It's part of the basis of the argument.

Honestly man, I just think you're angry at something and need to vent, because you're just throwing out things that I've already made points about and making points that don't make sense.

montazingmvp
05-26-2009, 12:24 AM
And the entire point is that it's been considered.... It's part of the basis of the argument.

Honestly man, I just think you're angry at something and need to vent, because you're just throwing out things that I've already made points about and making points that don't make sense.

i'm not angry at all....

but the usage stat isn't even what i was talking about...lebron dominates the ball on his team...therefore he has the oppurtunity to fill up the stat sheet much more often than a lot of players...maybe more than oscar....

and that is a stat that you aren't taking into consideration (and you can't because as far i know there isn't a stat for that) when saying lebron's last season was better than any of oscars or wilts or whatever. (and you said you did take that into consideration which is false)

so you can't objectively determine which season was better...thats the point i'm trying to make

SteveNash
05-26-2009, 12:26 AM
Orlando has to have some of the most classless journalists/fans in the NBA.

theuuord
05-26-2009, 12:27 AM
i'm not angry at all....

but the usage stat isn't even what i was talking about...lebron dominates the ball on his team...therefore he has the oppurtunity to fill up the stat sheet much more often than a lot of players...maybe more than oscar....

and that is a stat that you aren't taking into consideration when saying lebron's last season was better than any of oscars or wilts or whatever. (and you said you did take that into consideration which is false)

so you can't objectively determine which season was better...thats the point i'm trying to make

First of all, saying that LeBron has the opportunity to fill up the stat sheet more is just flat out wrong. Oscar's team averaged 125 possessions per game. The Cavs average 89. No matter how often LeBron has the ball in his hands (and by the way, who the hell uses that as a marker for how good a season can be?), it won't offset that difference. Especially not for a guy like Oscar, who was definitely the primary ballhandler on his team.
Besides, the number you are talking about - the dominating of the ball - IS reflected in usage rate, because it reflects how many times a player actually did something with the ball himself.

Here, read this:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1423

And really, really read it.

mrs rose
05-26-2009, 12:31 AM
ITS TRUE..
he hasnt even won a championship.. lord help us if he does... espn would send a bill to OBAMA or whomever to make a day just for LBJ!

FNM BOY
05-26-2009, 12:31 AM
For all of you hating on the chosen one........ Yes believe the hype!! He is baskeball made flesh dwelling among us...behold the king james version!! Its not over yet...the best is yet to come...and you will be witnesses here in psd and to the ends of the earth...lo and behold lebron is with you. He that has eyes to see let them see.

montazingmvp
05-26-2009, 12:32 AM
First of all, saying that LeBron has the opportunity to fill up the stat sheet more is just flat out wrong. Oscar's team averaged 125 possessions per game. The Cavs average 89. No matter how often LeBron has the ball in his hands (and by the way, who the hell uses that as a marker for how good a season can be?), it won't offset that difference. Especially not for a guy like Oscar, who was definitely the primary ballhandler on his team.
Besides, the number you are talking about - the dominating of the ball - IS reflected in usage rate, because it reflects how many times a player actually did something with the ball himself.

Here, read this:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1423

And really, really read it.

i didn't say he has more of a chance to fill up the stat sheet than oscar...re-read what i wrote.. i said MAYBE....

montazingmvp
05-26-2009, 12:34 AM
For all of you hating on the chosen one........ Yes believe the hype!! He is baskeball made flesh dwelling among us...behold the king james version!! Its not over yet...the best is yet to come...and you will be witnesses here in psd and to the ends of the earth...lo and behold lebron is with you. He that has eyes to see let them see.

dude, you're embarrasing yourself...we're talking about a basketball player here...atleast that was funny, whether it was on purpose or not

theuuord
05-26-2009, 12:36 AM
i didn't say he has more of a chance to fill up the stat sheet than oscar...re-read what i wrote.. i said MAYBE....

So the entire premise of what you're saying is reliant on one hugely unlikely maybe?

FNM BOY
05-26-2009, 12:38 AM
HAHAHAHAHA...take it as you wish....the fullness of time has not yet come...greater things Lerbon shall perform....i was once lost like u my brother...i was once blind but now i see...Lebron is the Chosen ONE :D

AWC713
05-26-2009, 12:40 AM
i partially agree with him. But, this guy is a very, very, very, good writer. That's what stood out to me. Great read.

amazing writing skill

montazingmvp
05-26-2009, 12:41 AM
First of all, saying that LeBron has the opportunity to fill up the stat sheet more is just flat out wrong. Oscar's team averaged 125 possessions per game. The Cavs average 89. No matter how often LeBron has the ball in his hands (and by the way, who the hell uses that as a marker for how good a season can be?), it won't offset that difference. Especially not for a guy like Oscar, who was definitely the primary ballhandler on his team.
Besides, the number you are talking about - the dominating of the ball - IS reflected in usage rate, because it reflects how many times a player actually did something with the ball himself.

Here, read this:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1423

And really, really read it.

read it, good read...
but...
bron in his best season is a better scorer and a worse rebounder and passer than oscars in his triple double season...even when you account for the pace factor...so how exactly are you saying that lebron's season is still better than robertson's? am i missing something?

_KB24_
05-26-2009, 12:42 AM
HAHAHAHAHA...take it as you wish....the fullness of time has not yet come...greater things Lerbon shall perform....i was once lost like u my brother...i was once blind but now i see...Lebron is the Chosen ONE :D

I guess I'm still blind because I havent seen anything LeBron has does that Wade or Melo cannot do.

pastrecedes
05-26-2009, 12:44 AM
finally someone gets it....Lebron is a great player, but in no way he is the best thing to happen to the NBA

he's the best thing to happen to david stern.

FNM BOY
05-26-2009, 12:46 AM
I guess I'm still blind because I havent seen anything LeBron has does that Wade or Melo cannot do.

Case in point just to show your statement is wrong...Lebron has won a MVP of the league at the age of 24...thats just 1 thing he has done they haven't done....i'm not going to argue anymore points just wanted to show you ...you are wrong in that statement.

_KB24_
05-26-2009, 12:49 AM
Case in point just to show your statement is wrong...Lebron has won a MVP of the league at the age of 24...thats just 1 thing he has done they haven't done....i'm not going to argue anymore points just wanted to show you ...you are wrong in that statement.

Look at what I said. CANNOT do, not haven't done. I can say that Wade has won a ring.

montazingmvp
05-26-2009, 12:51 AM
So the entire premise of what you're saying is reliant on one hugely unlikely maybe?

no that wasn't my premice at all....robertson was one player i used as an example...

theuuord
05-26-2009, 12:52 AM
read it, good read...
but...
bron in his best season is a better scorer and a worse rebounder and passer than oscars in his triple double season...even when you account for the pace factor...so how exactly are you saying that lebron's season is still better than robertson's? am i missing something?

That's just a basic translation. LeBron averages those in a translated 37.7 minutes per game. Oscar averaged his in 44. If you adjust on a per-minute basis as well, LeBron averages 11.6 assists and 12 boards - pretty much even in both categories. Unfortunately we can't make rate statistics because of the lack of individual possession numbers from Oscar's time, but we can generally assume that they are equal in both categories - except LeBron averaged 46.8 points per game with the 44 minute per game standard, a huge advantage in LeBron's favor.

Obviously these are quick and dirty, but it gives you an idea for comparison.

FNM BOY
05-26-2009, 12:53 AM
Look at what I said. CANNOT do, not haven't done. I can say that Wade has won a ring.

I can understand your discomfort and hate because you are a Kobe fan....u'll be ok...the scales will sooon fall from your eyes.

_KB24_
05-26-2009, 01:01 AM
I can understand your discomfort and hate because you are a Kobe fan....u'll be ok...the scales will sooon fall from your eyes.

I also understand your insecurity over Lebron and can't face simple facts. Wade is going to be dominating this league if not for David Stern being all over Brons ***.

FNM BOY
05-26-2009, 01:02 AM
hahahahah...u'll be ok....relax and behold baskeball glory.

_KB24_
05-26-2009, 01:06 AM
right back at you brother.

montazingmvp
05-26-2009, 01:13 AM
That's just a basic translation. LeBron averages those in a translated 37.7 minutes per game. Oscar averaged his in 44. If you adjust on a per-minute basis as well, LeBron averages 11.6 assists and 12 boards - pretty much even in both categories. Unfortunately we can't make rate statistics because of the lack of individual possession numbers from Oscar's time, but we can generally assume that they are equal in both categories - except LeBron averaged 46.8 points per game with the 44 minute per game standard, a huge advantage in LeBron's favor.

Obviously these are quick and dirty, but it gives you an idea for comparison.

ok, fair enough. lebron is probably playing against tougher competition too...

dabears34ft
05-26-2009, 01:14 AM
I'm just tired of this Lebron is better than Kobe and MJ talk. No he might have some great physical gifts, but MJ and Kobe have composure. When there team is down and they go to the line, they capitalize on their free throws. Lebron was so tense sunday that he airballed his 2nd free throw after missing the first. Than he panics and stops passing at the end of the game too. He is a physical specimen and a great great player, but he does not have the killer instinct, and composure that MJ and Kobe were blessed with. Wade and Kobe are guys who capitalize late in games on a consistent basis. Lebron has about 2 big game winners in his career so far.

theuuord
05-26-2009, 01:16 AM
I'm just tired of this Lebron is better than Kobe and MJ talk. No he might have some great physical gifts, but MJ and Kobe have composure. When there team is down and they go to the line, they capitalize on their free throws. Lebron was so tense sunday that he airballed his 2nd free throw after missing the first. Than he panics and stops passing at the end of the game too. He is a physical specimen and a great great player, but he does not have the killer instinct, and composure that MJ and Kobe were blessed with. Wade and Kobe are guys who capitalize late in games on a consistent basis. Lebron has about 2 big game winners in his career so far.

Let's play a game.

Who do you think has the most game winning shots in the NBA since LeBron came into the league?

dabears34ft
05-26-2009, 01:20 AM
lol I'm trying to look that up and I'm not gettin anywhere.

dabears34ft
05-26-2009, 01:21 AM
I'm sure Wade, Gordon, and Kobe would be up there. Allen as well.

theuuord
05-26-2009, 01:24 AM
I'm sure Wade, Gordon, and Kobe would be up there. Allen as well.

Allen is third, Kobe is fourth. Gordon is tied for seventh. Wade tied for 10th.

(Note: this is only as of 2/4 of this year, so it doesn't include any of the playoff game winners.)

montazingmvp
05-26-2009, 01:32 AM
Allen is third, Kobe is fourth. Gordon is tied for seventh. Wade tied for 10th.

(Note: this is only as of 2/4 of this year, so it doesn't include any of the playoff game winners.)

vince carter
allen iverson
chauncey billups..

who is it?

StrandedCub
05-26-2009, 01:32 AM
Its Lebron followed by VC followed by Allen. Those are the top 3 with game winning shots being defined as 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.

theuuord
05-26-2009, 01:33 AM
Its Lebron followed by VC followed by Allen. Those are the top 3 with game winning shots being defined as 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.

ding ding ding.

Chronz
05-26-2009, 02:28 AM
uhh, what? if you're talking about the regular season then still, definitely not. if you mean the post season, then wait til its over before crowning any best seasons of any kind.
Thus FAR, and already one of the best regular seasons.


not even close to the best season ever.
HAH

Chronz
05-26-2009, 02:30 AM
What are you smoking!!! Wade had a better individual season than Lebron. Now don't get me wrong Lebron's season was really good, but Wade's was great. Call me homer all you want but I bet many people say Wade had a better individual season than Lebron.

Those people are the truly ignorant, nobody surpassed LeBrons season this year.

montazingmvp
05-26-2009, 02:30 AM
Thus FAR, and already one of the best regular seasons.


HAH

so you take this over mj's best season...

theuuord
05-26-2009, 02:32 AM
Those people are the truly ignorant, nobody surpassed LeBrons season this year.

dude i had to hold down the fort, where the hell were you?!? :p

Chronz
05-26-2009, 02:33 AM
bro just stop it, lol stop the madness,
did you just start watching basket ball this year ??

james is mvp, great season but not the best season of any ones career,
i think jordan has a lil somthing to say about that, how bout oscar ? bill russle ? larry bird ? magic johnson ?? more up to date ? kobe has has some insane seasons, dwane wades season when he had shaq was unreal,
theres just too many to list,

ill give credit where its due though, james is right up there with that class and has had a great season considering his team isnt all that great. bunch of blue collar players if you ask me. they are good but not great.

Its not madness, the stats dont lie and Bron has been absolutely historical, Reg+Playoffs thus far.

Chronz
05-26-2009, 02:34 AM
ok what if both players had the exact same shot attempts on both those teams then what?

You can't blame the player for being in a faster paced system.

What if you plugged in another player who put in as many shot attempts as lets say Wilt. Do you think they would have the stamina to even last all season or even be able to score as much? All your doing is stat fishing to prove your argument which theoretically makes absolutely no sense.

Then you should contact about 19-25 GM's and tell them they are wasting their money with the per possession analysis.

And if both had the same exact shot attempts with no loss in efficiency the guy who only played in 50 possessions would EASILY be the better shot creator.

Chronz
05-26-2009, 02:35 AM
They have equal usage rates - that is, they use the same percentage of their team's possessions. (Like I said, all other things equal.)

They so wouldnt have equal usages

theuuord
05-26-2009, 02:36 AM
They so wouldnt have equal usages

duh. but for all intents&purposes, to make the point even stronger.

Chronz
05-26-2009, 02:38 AM
so you take this over mj's best season...

Heavens no, but thats because I dont know how LeBrons ends yet, but THUS far its on pace, assuming he doesnt choke down the stretch anymore

Chronz
05-26-2009, 02:40 AM
dude i had to hold down the fort, where the hell were you?!? :p
I came back and saw the thread was 10 pages deep, the main point of the thread is that there is a REASON for so much hype. To say its not justifiable is absurd, to say that ESPN is already crowning him the GOAT is idiotic. Facts are there have been plenty of ESPN analysts that have held back on the Bron love. That game winning shot the writer was talking about was downplayed by Jon Barry and whats his face from PTI. Its not like everyone is saying lets place him in Jordans league right now.

DJ CHACH
05-26-2009, 02:55 AM
wow..is this heaven? i thought id never find a place that hates lebron as much as i do

Namy
05-26-2009, 03:06 AM
LeBron is a one of a kind player. But the hype he gets for everything that he does is so annoying. I couldn't want ESPN after game 2. They must have replayed that shot a million times. I never knew I could be so sick of one play in just one day.

Ni55anpat
05-26-2009, 11:27 AM
Exactly, this guy annoys the hell outta me. That was NOT the greatest shot ever and when all set and done...He will NOT be the best player in history of the NBA.

marlinsfan24
05-26-2009, 11:34 AM
Those people are the truly ignorant, nobody surpassed LeBrons season this year.

Your right dude. I mean D-Wade only became the 1st NBA Player to record 2000 points, 500 assists, 150 steals, and 100 blocks in a single and the first ever player under 6'5 to get 100 blocks. His season by no means surpassed Lebron though. Added to the fact he led a crap team to the 5 seed

MagicBucsSox
05-26-2009, 11:44 AM
i wonder how much stan van is behind this

pippsux
05-26-2009, 11:51 AM
I bet you if Lebron was playing for Orlando he wouldn't be writing this article. True, Lebron's hype is out of control, but as long as people watch him and have watched him since he was in high school, goo over his commercials and speculate if he is leaving Cleveland or not, it's his NBA. It's on him to prove us right or wrong. So far he has surpassed all expectations.

If he was a Houston rocket I would put petals on the ground so his feet don't touch the ground.

Hanzinho
05-26-2009, 11:54 AM
TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!

:mad:

JordansBulls
05-26-2009, 11:55 AM
One thing I have noticed about Lebron is that no matter how big the Cavs are winning or losing, Lebron will make sure he gets his numbers for the game. He just seems more concerned with his numbers/stats more than anything else. Team could be up 20+ or down 20+ plus and if he has 20 points at the time, he will make sure he gets 30 points.


IMO Game 3 when the series is tied 1-1 is important for the road team and the fact it appeared the refs tried to do whatever they could to give the game to Cleveland shows what is happening here. I mean getting 24 fta on the road.

Problem now is that I don't think the refs can play a part anymore otherwise it becomes too obvious especially considering SVG and every other analysts has seen what has happened.

IBleedPurple
05-26-2009, 11:55 AM
I actually agree is some sense, and not in a another.....

The hype is definitely out of control. He is the best player on the planet, but he really gets superstar treatment on the court, which should not happen. Lebron can simply go to the hoop every play, and get 40 a night. Why? Because he gets any contact against him called for a foul, and has the great ability to finish. Even on nights where his jump shot is not falling, like in game 3, he just drives and waits for a whistle. A little ridiculous. Not to mention he is rarely called for charging, or any fouls while he is on defense.

Zefflin
05-26-2009, 12:08 PM
He is the best player on the planet.

Nah not yet he's 2nd, and how can you be when you don't have a consistent mid-range or 3?

"Don't get me wrong, this is not LeBron's fault. He is an exceptional player, but the fawning fans, media and refs are making everybody sick of him. A classic case of LeBron LeBurnout Syndrome."

Couldn't agree more. :clap:

Kenny
05-26-2009, 12:11 PM
One thing I have noticed about Lebron is that no matter how big the Cavs are winning or losing, Lebron will make sure he gets his numbers for the game. He just seems more concerned with his numbers/stats more than anything else. Team could be up 20+ or down 20+ plus and if he has 20 points at the time, he will make sure he gets 30 points.


IMO Game 3 when the series is tied 1-1 is important for the road team and the fact it appeared the refs tried to do whatever they could to give the game to Cleveland shows what is happening here. I mean getting 24 fta on the road.

Problem now is that I don't think the refs can play a part anymore otherwise it becomes too obvious especially considering SVG and every other analysts has seen what has happened.

oh please :rolleyes: what the **** are you basing this on?? Kind of like Kobe last night in a blow out kept chucking in the 4th quater... You play hard till the end of the game... He could of went for 50 points lebron a couple times this postseason and reserved that.. Esepcially against the hawks that one time..

It's funny hearing about free throw attempts with a guy that has a Michael Jordan sig

JordansBulls
05-26-2009, 12:12 PM
Nah not yet he's 2nd, and how can you be when you don't have a consistent mid-range or 3?



That doesn't make any sense. Other great players never had a decent mid range or 3 point shot either but yet they were the best in the game. Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem (a few years), Duncan

JordansBulls
05-26-2009, 12:13 PM
oh please :rolleyes: what the **** are you basing this on?? Kind of like Kobe last night in a blow out kept chucking in the 4th quater... You play hard till the end of the game... He could of went for 50 points lebron a couple times this postseason and reserved that.. Esepcially against the hawks that one time..

It's funny hearing about free throw attempts with a guy that has a Michael Jordan sig

This thread has nothing to do with Kobe nor any other player in the league does it?

Go show me how many fouls he has committed and how many times he got 20 fta in any playoff game.

Zefflin
05-26-2009, 12:16 PM
oh please :rolleyes: what the **** are you basing this on?? Kind of like Kobe last night in a blow out kept chucking in the 4th quater... You play hard till the end of the game...

His eyes I would assume. He's right because I see the same thing and have pointed that out for years. And Kobe came into the game last night with 6:30 left being down ten points. He came in and tried to win the game and unlike everyone else on his team he actually hit shots. Don't you ever say that Kobe plays for stats like Lebron does because that's ********.

theuuord
05-26-2009, 12:16 PM
Yep, go show me how many fouls he has committed and how many times he got 20 fta in any playoff game.

Do you mean Kobe (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=bryanko01&match=game&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=1997&year_max=2009&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&pos=&c1stat=fta&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts) or Jordan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=jordami01&match=game&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=1987&year_max=2003&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&pos=&c1stat=fta&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts)?

Edit: after your edit realize you might have meant LeBron. Still not sure.

Zefflin
05-26-2009, 12:17 PM
That doesn't make any sense. Other great players never had a decent mid range or 3 point shot either but yet they were the best in the game. Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem (a few years), Duncan

C'mon JB, look what position they play...

And in Lebron's case add a very shakey post game too...

theuuord
05-26-2009, 12:17 PM
C'mon JB, look what position they play...

Who cares about that when you're the best player in the league?

Zefflin
05-26-2009, 12:21 PM
I shoot better FT's then him.

rhaas74
05-26-2009, 12:25 PM
I shoot better FT's then him.

OK lets put you in an arena with 20,000+ with the game on the line and see how you do.

tr4shb0t
05-26-2009, 12:26 PM
One thing I have noticed about Lebron is that no matter how big the Cavs are winning or losing, Lebron will make sure he gets his numbers for the game. He just seems more concerned with his numbers/stats more than anything else. Team could be up 20+ or down 20+ plus and if he has 20 points at the time, he will make sure he gets 30 points.


IMO Game 3 when the series is tied 1-1 is important for the road team and the fact it appeared the refs tried to do whatever they could to give the game to Cleveland shows what is happening here. I mean getting 24 fta on the road.

Problem now is that I don't think the refs can play a part anymore otherwise it becomes too obvious especially considering SVG and every other analysts has seen what has happened.

Definitely. He is very concerned about his stats and he's mentioned in interviews how he keeps track of Kobe's stats and adjusts. Competition is fine, but not if it's being selfish and costing your team...

As far as this series, I don't necessarily think the refs are trying to give the Cavs or Lebron the win or a free pass to finals. I believe it has more to do with keeping Lebron looking good and if he can't hit a jumper they will send him to the line 25 times so he still has a "good night" statistically sort of. It is very obvious that Lebron has trouble scoring when Dwight is playing, and conveniently enough D12 is ALWAYS in foul trouble.

NBA.com was blaming the game 3 loss on Mo Williams and as bad as Lebron played they still deemed his performance worthy enough to have it's own highlight video. It was pethetic...they had to show him making a freethrow in the highlights because it was one of the only baskets he made all night that wasn't a layup.

Zefflin
05-26-2009, 12:30 PM
ok lets put you in an arena with 20,000+ with the game on the line and see how you do.

82%

Kenny
05-26-2009, 12:35 PM
Definitely. He is very concerned about his stats and he's mentioned in interviews how he keeps track of Kobe's stats and adjusts. Competition is fine, but not if it's being selfish and costing your team...

As far as this series, I don't necessarily think the refs are trying to give the Cavs or Lebron the win or a free pass to finals. I believe it has more to do with keeping Lebron looking good and if he can't hit a jumper they will send him to the line 25 times so he still has a "good night" statistically sort of. It is very obvious that Lebron has trouble scoring when Dwight is playing, and conveniently enough D12 is ALWAYS in foul trouble.

NBA.com was blaming the game 3 loss on Mo Williams and as bad as Lebron played they still deemed his performance worthy enough to have it's own highlight video. It was pethetic...they had to show him making a freethrow in the highlights because it was one of the only baskets he made all night that wasn't a layup.


Are you armin? You have to be I see he was banned and he was the only one pathetic enough to come into every lebron discussion to put lebron down

masalex1205
05-26-2009, 12:51 PM
homerism at its best.

Great players get great calls, Lebron, Kobe, etc. will get the benefit of the doubt

LOL at Lakers fans complaining after I've had to put up w/ years of Kobe is the next Jordan mess

tr4shb0t
05-26-2009, 01:30 PM
Are you armin? You have to be I see he was banned and he was the only one pathetic enough to come into every lebron discussion to put lebron down

There must be 200 or 300 armins then. Facts are facts...I think you are the only one still holding Lebron's hand.

JordansBulls
05-26-2009, 04:19 PM
Lebron's FTA in his career thus far.



LeBron James who has already broken Dwyane Wade's record in Free Throw Attempts in a Playoff series, is now looking to break another Playoff Free Throw Attempt record, this one held by Shaquille O'neal.

James, averaging 13.7 FTA these Playoffs, is on pace to break OíNealís Playoff record for Total FTA this season, and get this... in FEWER GAMES!

OíNeal, with a Playoff FTA record of 296 FTA after 23 games, is closely followed behind Jamesí 151 FTA after only 11 games! As of May 25th, at the pace James is heading, and assuming he makes it to the NBA Finals, it will only take him a total of 22 games (1 game less than O'Neal) to break OíNealís nine-year old Playoff record.

James already has set the record for FTA in a Playoff Series with 19.3 FTA against Pistons; a record previously held by Dwyane Wade in 2006 against the Mavericks at 16.2 FTA.

James, in his young career, is also closely placed 2nd behind OíNeal in Playoff Career FTA at 10.5 per game, with OíNeal holding the top spot at just 11.2 per game; just 0.7 attempts ahead of James.

rhaas74
05-26-2009, 04:34 PM
82%

Oh so you have played in front of 20,000+ in the conference finals? What team was that with?

Comparing high school basketball stats to a pro's stats is just plain ignorant.

ElMarroAfamado
05-26-2009, 04:42 PM
I read this article this morning and was so happy someone finally stepped up and admits it. I too thought its ridiculous that the guy hit his first game winning shot probably ever in the playoffs and suddenly analysts and sportscasters are talking about him becoming one of the best clutch players? He's allowed to crab dribble, plow over defenders, and goal tend. Defenders shouldnt even bother try and block his shots anymore because if they get all ball it will be called a foul. Point is, the guy has done nothing. Hes won nothing. He will get beat this year yet again, and watch the finals from his couch.

Don't get me wrong, this is not LeBron's fault. He is an exceptional player, but the fawning fans, media and refs are making everybody sick of him. A classic case of LeBron LeBurnout Syndrome.


couldnt agree more

Vinny642
05-26-2009, 04:45 PM
Armin is banned? For what and how long, :clap: that is some good news. I looked in the Village of Banned forum but couldn't find his name,

macc
05-26-2009, 04:47 PM
BLASPHEMY!!!!

DAMN YOU ALL!



James: chapter 3 verse 9-12 "Thou shalt not use my name in vein! Or you shalt be shunned by Mo Williams and Delonte's bricks, which shalt be so many that you can build yourself a kingdom called James the Majestic domain"

James: chapter 7 verse 5-6 "Thou shalt knee before the or my knights (refs) will do my bidding and destroy the!"

FNM BOY
05-26-2009, 04:55 PM
Greatness is always hated on....hahahahaha dont hate just appreciate.

lakersrock
05-26-2009, 05:02 PM
The LeBron LeLovefest is even more out of control.

Except there is one difference between LeBron James and Tim Tebow:

Tebow has actually won a championship.

Zing and a freaking half. I'm so glad somebody wrote an article about how crazy all this is. I used to get annoyed about the young Kobe = MJ stuff and I like Kobe. This is like 100 times worse....and like they said, "King" James doesn't even have any gold.

Vinny642
05-26-2009, 05:05 PM
Kobe gets hype too calm down, didnt u see their commercials?

macc
05-26-2009, 05:12 PM
Greatness is always hated on....hahahahaha dont hate just appreciate.


Ha ha I know, that's just how it is and how it always will be. People hate on the best. Just how it is. Just appreciate the time while they're here because before you know it they're gone.

lakersrock
05-26-2009, 05:13 PM
Kobe gets hype too calm down, didnt u see their commercials?

Are you serious? They're clearly a joke, but they make Kobe look like an idiot and LeBron like a laid back dude tired of his crap. Plus, Kobe couldn't get the calls LeBron does even if he paid for them.

Vinny642
05-26-2009, 05:16 PM
Are you serious? They're clearly a joke, but they make Kobe look like an idiot and LeBron like a laid back dude tired of his crap. Plus, Kobe couldn't get the calls LeBron does even if he paid for them.

The commercials!!!! R u serious, did u see the one where Lebron is clapping powder all around and it fills up the apartment. Lebron looked dumb there. But on some real, Kobe gets alot of BS calls, yea Lebron gets more hype and calls but don't complain because Kobe was getting the same exact calls a couple years ago, and still gets bad calls.

BlinkManJan02
05-26-2009, 05:22 PM
thats ridiculous the refs tend to favor the superstars, if they actually do. i guess you cant prove it but it really seems that way.

Chronz
05-26-2009, 05:38 PM
Your right dude. I mean D-Wade only became the 1st NBA Player to record 2000 points, 500 assists, 150 steals, and 100 blocks in a single and the first ever player under 6'5 to get 100 blocks. His season by no means surpassed Lebron though. Added to the fact he led a crap team to the 5 seed

Exactly

LeBron became the only person since MJ to combine efficiency and prolific shot creation at this rate. Far more significant than your arbitrary tallies. And I ask every Wade homer this same question, why would I care how tall Wade is? Its as if Im suppose to value a block from a PG over a block from a SF, a BLOCK IS A BLOCK.

Chronz
05-26-2009, 05:41 PM
this
oh please :rolleyes: What the **** are you basing this on?? Kind of like kobe last night in a blow out kept chucking in the 4th quater... You play hard till the end of the game... He could of went for 50 points lebron a couple times this postseason and reserved that.. Esepcially against the hawks that one time..

It's funny hearing about free throw attempts with a guy that has a michael jordan sig


owns this:


one thing i have noticed about lebron is that no matter how big the cavs are winning or losing, lebron will make sure he gets his numbers for the game. He just seems more concerned with his numbers/stats more than anything else. Team could be up 20+ or down 20+ plus and if he has 20 points at the time, he will make sure he gets 30 points.


Imo game 3 when the series is tied 1-1 is important for the road team and the fact it appeared the refs tried to do whatever they could to give the game to cleveland shows what is happening here. I mean getting 24 fta on the road.

Problem now is that i don't think the refs can play a part anymore otherwise it becomes too obvious especially considering svg and every other analysts has seen what has happened.

levignjw
05-26-2009, 05:43 PM
I actually agree is some sense, and not in a another.....

The hype is definitely out of control. He is the best player on the planet, but he really gets superstar treatment on the court, which should not happen. Lebron can simply go to the hoop every play, and get 40 a night. Why? Because he gets any contact against him called for a foul, and has the great ability to finish. Even on nights where his jump shot is not falling, like in game 3, he just drives and waits for a whistle. A little ridiculous. Not to mention he is rarely called for charging, or any fouls while he is on defense.

x2. I mean the guy is simply amazing to watch, but my God they are treating him like he is the only player capable of scoring on any given night. The calls he gets in games is beginning to get ridiculous, and when the calls don't fall his way, he'll simply complain until they do. I can't wait to see the Magic win this series in 6 games.

Chronz
05-26-2009, 05:44 PM
Lebron's FTA in his career thus far.

Wouldnt you expect the most gifted slasher, playing in a no HC era to set records for well slashing?

*Superman*
05-26-2009, 05:48 PM
finally someone gets it....Lebron is a great player, but in no way he is the best thing to happen to the NBA

Nice sig bro:up:

Damn Vinny642, you gotta make me a sig too!

damkrayzie
05-26-2009, 05:51 PM
don't hate anyone of you would take him on your team in a heart beat

*Superman*
05-26-2009, 05:55 PM
don't hate anyone of you would take him on your team in a heart beat

True, i dont think people are trying to hate, its that he is too hyped. No offense to the Cavs fans because it is not their fault. ITs the NBA, ESPN, Sportscenter, and the other media. Yes Lebron is a good player, even better then good a DAMN good player, but he isn't Micheal.

Then again, the Cavs role players haven't stepped it up at all this series. You cant blame Lebron, but the Cavs as a team.

Randy West
05-26-2009, 05:56 PM
He IS a good player

I am not sure if he is over hyped under hyped or whatever

The guy balls

That's all that really matters

IBleedPurple
05-26-2009, 06:34 PM
Lebron's FTA in his career thus far.

Wow, and to think how Shaq used to get at least 6-8 free trips to the line in the days of hack a Shaq and to prevent easy baskets. Good info

_KB24_
05-26-2009, 06:49 PM
Yeah JB, Thanks for the stats. It is truly remarkable seeing how the Hack-A-Shaq really helped boost his attempts.

MJL
05-26-2009, 08:08 PM
100% agree. Yes he is a fatastic player, every NBA fan want him on their team, it is not his faults and he didn't ask for it.
It's the media over hyped him. Media never put their mighty spot light on the phantom call on Howard which gave LeBron three free throws, media never focus on those dirty plays or tactics, which if they do, they could put the pressure on the NBA and make a difference. Media choose to kiss LeBron's butt instead make better NBA game for fans.

Chronz
05-26-2009, 08:51 PM
Are you armin? You have to be I see he was banned and he was the only one pathetic enough to come into every lebron discussion to put lebron down

Armin was banned? For what and for how long?

AmerTeam/KB24
05-26-2009, 09:33 PM
Lebron James excuse me King James ids definitely not hype up. He is as advertised......WE ARE ALL A WITNESS

still1ballin
05-26-2009, 09:36 PM
Armin was banned? For what and for how long?

He is out of jail in about 26 hrs i believe

Vinny642
05-27-2009, 05:57 AM
dam he's comin back/ @superman12 i'll make ua sig, NP, just Pm me the player(s) and any specifications. lebrons season is almost over :clap: i wonder how much hype he gets

effen5
05-27-2009, 08:42 AM
Lebron James excuse me King James ids definitely not hype up. He is as advertised......WE ARE ALL A WITNESS

You are right, we are witnesses, of how Superman and the Magics are about to advance over the so called best team in the NBA. Should have been a sweep.

Ilir
05-27-2009, 09:04 AM
Are you serious (directed to the writer)???

Can everyone please stop hating on LeBron you know it is the cavs against the magic not LeBron against the magic. Yes i agree there was an invisible foul but you make it seem like they only happen for the cavs. In the final minutes of game 4, 4th quater there was an offensive interference that shouldve been called on Dwight but wasn't. I think the officating in the NBA should be reevaluated or just get non-brain dead officials. Too many bad calls that almost ruin the game completely.

Also this isnt the first time LeBron has been deep in the playoffs and lost or about to lose. The hype didnt go away then. Why would it go away now? If anything after what happened in game 2 i'd say its verified exactly how good he is. everyone expects him to win with no supporting cast. I can see LeBron leaving the cavs to go to another team in 2010 if the cavs can't manage to pull this one out of their a55. I hope its the knicks but truthfully idc where he goes as long as its on a competitive team.

I probably missed some points i wanted to talk about but this is just the gist of it.

LakerzDQ
05-27-2009, 09:06 AM
Lebron is a great player. I love his game.

but I hate how the media blow him up. Let Lebron's game speak for itself.

theuuord
05-27-2009, 03:00 PM
Lebron is a great player. I love his game.

but I hate how the media blow him up. Let Lebron's game speak for itself.

It does.


the annoying part is how the fans (yes, you guys, and all of us) take the Cavs to mean the LeBrons.

LeBron cannot win games by himself, and he has gotten NO help this series. But because he dominates the game, but his team loses, people say it's the fault of LeBron not being good enough. NO ONE in the NBA would have even made the games that close except for LeBron.

LeBron is not the only player on the Cavs. When they lose, it is a reflection of their team's weaknesses, not his alone.

d00d
05-27-2009, 03:05 PM
Lebron spends a great deal of gametime looking at the jumbo tron to see if the camera is on him.

Last night I came to believe in NBA conspiracy's after the fouls they called for Lebron

Vinny642
05-27-2009, 03:06 PM
And delonte West's overall IN NBA 2k9 is 85? LOL WTF.

IM a not a fan or a hater of Lebron but he gets way too much love from the media and refs.

madiaz3
05-27-2009, 03:07 PM
When one player dominates the ball as much as he does, you can't expect all of your shooters to suddenly be in rhythm and start knocking down shots. Has anyone ever thought that Lebron's style of play doesn't allow his players to deliver per-usual because they don't get a chance to heat up or many chances to create for themselves?

Jahari Kavi
05-27-2009, 03:10 PM
complaining about the officials would make sense, only if the magic weren't shooting more FTs......I swear people just don't get it. Of course the NBA is going to market their big names. I'm a rockets fan and I never thought we got the respect we deserved win winning titles, but I expect it, because the NBA seeks to hype up big named players and big market teams..........get over it.....if you're winning (which is what counts at the end of the day) then what the hell are you complaining about?

lavell12
05-27-2009, 03:15 PM
complaining about the officials would make sense, only if the magic weren't shooting more FTs......I swear people just don't get it. Of course the NBA is going to market their big names. I'm a rockets fan and I never thought we got the respect we deserved win winning titles, but I expect it, because the NBA seeks to hype up big named players and big market teams..........get over it.....if you're winning (which is what counts at the end of the day) then what the hell are you complaining about?

The only reason the Magic are shooting more FT is because the Cavs are fouling Dwight on purpose and the Magic are ahead late so the Cavs are forced to foul.

d00d
05-27-2009, 03:17 PM
I'm a rockets fan and I never thought we got the respect we deserved win winning titles,

the whole world knew the Rockets won those titles because Michael was retired

Jahari Kavi
05-27-2009, 03:21 PM
Are you serious? They're clearly a joke, but they make Kobe look like an idiot and LeBron like a laid back dude tired of his crap. Plus, Kobe couldn't get the calls LeBron does even if he paid for them.

*thinks 2002 WCF game 6*

*thinks game 2 against my rockets when kobe elbowed Ron in the throat, yet Ron was called for foul*


superstars get superstar calls....

lakersrock
05-27-2009, 03:30 PM
*thinks 2002 WCF game 6*

*thinks game 2 against my rockets when kobe elbowed Ron in the throat, yet Ron was called for foul*


superstars get superstar calls....

If by throat you mean chest, then yeah.

madiaz3
05-27-2009, 03:31 PM
*thinks 2002 WCF game 6*

*thinks game 2 against my rockets when kobe elbowed Ron in the throat, yet Ron was called for foul*


superstars get superstar calls....

lol @ having to go back 7 years.

and did they not review and correct the call after the game? btw, it was his chest and it was proven, so stop your bias. anyway, that wasn't a superstar call, it was a quick and stealthy move by kobe that was obscured by a whole bunch of other players. they figured it out after and punished accordingly.

We're talking about lebron calls. Where he will initiate contact 99% of the time and it will be a blocking foul. Where he can dribble and trip on the last play and it will be a foul on whoever was nearest. where lebron can foul someone under the basket but it will be called on andy varejao instead as to not give a foul to lebron. where he will only be called out on 25% of traveling violations, ETC ETC.

tr4shb0t
05-27-2009, 03:54 PM
Why does everyone blame Lebron's teammates all the sudden? Out of nowhere they are considered to be not helpful and Lebron is "doing everything himself."

Lebron is still getting roughly the same percentage of the Cavs points and he is certainly not shooting at a great percentage even with the refs excessive star calls.

How about give some credit to the Magic for defense and stop blaming everyhing on Lebron's teammates. TNT doesn't have the balls to do it, but it's true.

Vinny642
05-27-2009, 03:57 PM
Why does everyone blame Lebron's teammates all the sudden? Out of nowhere they are considered to be not helpful and Lebron is "doing everything himself."

Lebron is still getting roughly the same percentage of the Cavs points and he is certainly not shooting at a great percentage even with the refs excessive star calls.

How about give some credit to the Magic for defense and stop blaming everyhing on Lebron's teammates. TNT doesn't have the balls to do it, but it's true.

I dont think so, on ESPN they said in the playoffs he is getting around 44% of the Cavs points or somewhere around there. During the regular season he got 28%.

tr4shb0t
05-27-2009, 04:02 PM
I dont think so, on ESPN they said in the playoffs he is getting around 44% of the Cavs points or somewhere around there. During the regular season he got 28%.

Ok, I didn't watch Cavs too much during the regular season, but for the playoffs I believe this is true.

Lebron was pretty much hogging the ball against the Pistons and Hawks just to put up good numbers because he could afford to do so against these teams. Meanwhile, the rest of his team is jacking off and forgetting how to play. It's no wonder they lost their rhythm.

Vinny642
05-27-2009, 04:04 PM
Off topic- LOL I had a dream that we trade West for Bosh and some filler. Then I logged on PSD in the dream and there were mad threads like New Orleans finally trades and New Orleans contenders. lol

Jahari Kavi
05-27-2009, 04:16 PM
The only reason the Magic are shooting more FT is because the Cavs are fouling Dwight on purpose and the Magic are ahead late so the Cavs are forced to foul.

hedo got his fair share of foul shots in game 3, and so did pietrus......orlando is up 3-1, the refs (despite what people have been saying) have called the game equally (I've seen bad calls on both ends), etc....so once again why are they complaining?

Jahari Kavi
05-27-2009, 04:20 PM
lol @ having to go back 7 years.

and did they not review and correct the call after the game? btw, it was his chest and it was proven, so stop your bias. anyway, that wasn't a superstar call, it was a quick and stealthy move by kobe that was obscured by a whole bunch of other players. they figured it out after and punished accordingly.

We're talking about lebron calls. Where he will initiate contact 99% of the time and it will be a blocking foul. Where he can dribble and trip on the last play and it will be a foul on whoever was nearest. where lebron can foul someone under the basket but it will be called on andy varejao instead as to not give a foul to lebron. where he will only be called out on 25% of traveling violations, ETC ETC.

I could go to various examples in any game with any superstar......lebron gets his calls, kobe gets his calls, wade gets his calls, howard gets his calls, shaq gets his calls......just like jordan got his calls (thinking of MJs last shot in a bulls uniform)......if you have a beef with someone, then it is with the NBA for constantly letting superstars get away with murder. It's not fair to single out james, otherwise you sound like a bitter kobe fan-boy.

BOSSKOJIE
05-27-2009, 04:22 PM
Its over cavs fans!!!!!!! Mark my word =)

madiaz3
05-27-2009, 04:30 PM
I could go to various examples in any game with any superstar......lebron gets his calls, kobe gets his calls, wade gets his calls, howard gets his calls, shaq gets his calls......just like jordan got his calls (thinking of MJs last shot in a bulls uniform)......if you have a beef with someone, then it is with the NBA for constantly letting superstars get away with murder. It's not fair to single out james, otherwise you sound like a bitter kobe fan-boy.

not really. melo and dwight dont get their calls either, with dwight being the biggest victim in these playoffs.

Kakaroach
05-27-2009, 05:07 PM
I dont think so, on ESPN they said in the playoffs he is getting around 44% of the Cavs points or somewhere around there. During the regular season he got 28%. x2 I saw the same stat lol. But man LeBron needs some help and I feel for Magic fans. LBJ hype is WAY out of control.

Chronz
05-27-2009, 05:50 PM
Why does everyone blame Lebron's teammates all the sudden? Out of nowhere they are considered to be not helpful and Lebron is "doing everything himself."

Lebron is still getting roughly the same percentage of the Cavs points and he is certainly not shooting at a great percentage even with the refs excessive star calls.

How about give some credit to the Magic for defense and stop blaming everyhing on Lebron's teammates. TNT doesn't have the balls to do it, but it's true.
The Magic defense is tough and everyone said all year that the Cavs lack of size in the backcourt would eventually hurt them, but these have all been close games. Bron has been very efficient, much more so if you consider the burden hes carried. If your accusing that Bron has seemingly raised his game TOO much then I dont know what to tell you, what I do know is that the fact that Bron carried these guys in the regular season to an inconceivable win count doesnt mean he has a great team around him. Very solid, but not championship caliber. If by some miracle Bron finds a way to make it to the Finals it wont be because hes doing anything different, it'll be because one of his teammates finally steps up to the plate and makes the defense key on someone other than himself.

Chronz
05-27-2009, 05:57 PM
Ok, I didn't watch Cavs too much during the regular season, but for the playoffs I believe this is true.

Lebron was pretty much hogging the ball against the Pistons and Hawks just to put up good numbers because he could afford to do so against these teams. Meanwhile, the rest of his team is jacking off and forgetting how to play. It's no wonder they lost their rhythm.
He didnt even play the most minutes on the team, there is no excuse for not executing what you have all year. Your job is to play off of LeBron, and step up when hes on the bench, thus far when hes not in the game they have nothing. You dont forget how to do your job

Still he hasnt been perfect this series, but hes been better than expected really. I wouldve thought hed been more clutch, but I NEVER wouldve thought the Cavs would be relying on him this much. Its not a fair burden and its definitely not by design if thats what your insinuating, its simply their best option at this point. A similar scenario played out in Houston, when they went on their 22 win run, compared to their playoff series vs Utah. The great teams take your free flowing options away, thats when you go to your bread and butter, obviously external factors play a part, but ultimately you have to hold the individual accountable for his performance. Bron has continued to play the part of an MVP, his teammates and coaches arent living up to their accolades. Mo Williams was the biggest fraud of an All-Star since BJ Armstrong.

IversonIsKrazy
05-27-2009, 06:14 PM
i believe the article is right. ppl were saying that LeBron's shot was better than Jordan's to beat the cavs. this is ridiculous, i will give u one thing though;

LeBron has the best duo ever!

LeBron + Refs

tr4shb0t
05-27-2009, 06:18 PM
i believe the article is right. ppl were saying that LeBron's shot was better than Jordan's to beat the cavs. this is ridiculous, i will give u one thing though;

LeBron has the best duo ever!

LeBron + Refs

@Chronz: this is the main point. Lebron does poorly against the Magic, but the refs still make him look good. And they continue to hype him.

ragee
05-27-2009, 06:28 PM
I just hope, the Magic gets the credit they deserve after they beat Lebron's team... From all the hype Lebron James is getting, people tend to forget how great a team Magic is...

championships
05-27-2009, 07:17 PM
What in the world will ESPN do when Lebron doesn't make the Finals? Might as well close up shop. Absolutely heartbroken:laugh:

dabears34ft
05-27-2009, 07:24 PM
Here is my take on Lebron. When his team is down he doesn't know how to win with the team. He can win some by himself because he is really good, but great players adjust to the game. He presses at the end, (7 TO's in the 4th and OT) and it makes him look selfish, like a ball hog, and like a guy who wants to be the center of attention at all costs.

I remember one time a few years back when Lebron could have taken the last second shot, but instead he kicked it to Jones for a baseline 3 to win the game. You wouldn't see that right now. Not with how big his head is. It seems like he needs to humble himself down a little or he will be the most hated player outside of bandwagoners and Cleveland fans.

His 1st mistake was taking on the Nickname "King James". Than there is "The Chosen One" tattoo. Wade is a humble leader which is why fans flock to him. Lebron is a cocky punk which is why he now has a target on his back. You gotta win something first, and not just an MVP. No one cares about the MVP's who don't win the NBA Finals. Most notably Karl Malone. Everyone knows MJ was the MVP of that year and he showed it in the Finals.

Before I hear anymore claims about Lebron being better than Kobe and MJ, he better have a championship ring on his finger. He better start making all of his free throws in the final 2 minutes. And he better stop shooting airballs and pressing at the end of games. The Cavs win when they are ahead because Lebron plays the game right. He passes when he gets doubled and makes everyone around him better. But when the Cavs are down it's all Lebron and only Lebron. A sorry excuse for a coach like Mike Brown doesn't help the cause either.

Chronz
05-27-2009, 08:07 PM
@Chronz: this is the main point. Lebron does poorly against the Magic, but the refs still make him look good. And they continue to hype him.

Hes not doing poorly, are the refs suppose to stop blowing the whistle just because hes gotten to the line alot already? The main point is flawed

madiaz3
05-27-2009, 08:15 PM
Sometimes doing poorly is just not sticking to the offense enough even if you are hitting most of your shots. This happened with Pierce in the last round, he was going 1 on 1 with success in many games but he was always benched because he broke the flow of the offense while doing so, and the team as a whole benefited because the team would move the ball better and the role players would warm up and stay fresh and useful throughout the course of the game. Then again, the Celtics had a bit more accountability in Rivers, (I'm surprising myself just saying that.) with executive decisions to sit Pierce for the better of the team.

agoody117
05-27-2009, 08:50 PM
the media love-fest for lebron did not start this season guys.....

don't get me wrong, i HATE the hype...and that is why I love rooting against him (probably unfairly to him...its media/espn/nba's fault)

but does anyone remember when this kid was in highschool and ESPN broadcasted that game and dickie V was the announcer and was just hyping Lebron as the next kobe/MJ etc...

from the TV ads (Nike/Vitamin Water etc...) Sportscenter/Espn lovefest for anything lebron (commercials/lead stories..) and the selling out of the NBA (marketing one player to make more money instead of the the beauty of the team game).

:mad::mad::mad:

Kenny
05-27-2009, 08:53 PM
Why does everyone blame Lebron's teammates all the sudden? Out of nowhere they are considered to be not helpful and Lebron is "doing everything himself."

Lebron is still getting roughly the same percentage of the Cavs points and he is certainly not shooting at a great percentage even with the refs excessive star calls.

How about give some credit to the Magic for defense and stop blaming everyhing on Lebron's teammates. TNT doesn't have the balls to do it, but it's true.

he is getting 43 percent of the cavs points compared to 28 percent of the points in the regular season.. You wouldnt realize that because your a ****en moron.. And its not because the other players arent getting as many shots, there getting more

Kenny
05-27-2009, 08:54 PM
@Chronz: this is the main point. Lebron does poorly against the Magic, but the refs still make him look good. And they continue to hype him.

his stat line is 44-7-7 shooting over 50 percent this series.. again you wouldnt realize that because you no nothing about the game

madiaz3
05-27-2009, 09:03 PM
his stat line is 44-7-7 shooting over 50 percent this series.. again you wouldnt realize that because you no nothing about the game

The point being made is that he's getting his at the expense of his teammates. His assist numbers doesn't mean he's getting them involved in the right way.

Chronz
05-27-2009, 09:56 PM
The point being made is that he's getting his at the expense of his teammates. His assist numbers doesn't mean he's getting them involved in the right way.
LOL Whats the right way? They arent showing up period, he cant make the shots for them and its not like they are doing anything when hes not on the floor so its obviously not at their expense.

tr4shb0t
05-27-2009, 10:26 PM
Hes not doing poorly, are the refs suppose to stop blowing the whistle just because hes gotten to the line alot already? The main point is flawed

So Leborn tripping on himself warrants a call so Lebron can shoot some free points? Or a clean block is an automatic foul since there is no way Lebron can miss a shot?

Face it, this guy is bailed out so he looks good on paper.

tr4shb0t
05-27-2009, 10:31 PM
he is getting 43 percent of the cavs points compared to 28 percent of the points in the regular season.. You wouldnt realize that because your a ****en moron.. And its not because the other players arent getting as many shots, there getting more

Yea this is the playoffs not the regular season. But sure, I know nothing about basketball. I guess you are angry that you team is finished, that's why you can't make a valid argument.

Chronz
05-27-2009, 10:53 PM
So Leborn tripping on himself warrants a call so Lebron can shoot some free points? Or a clean block is an automatic foul since there is no way Lebron can miss a shot?

Face it, this guy is bailed out so he looks good on paper.
Ignoring your dramatic tone, the trip looked legit, the block was a hard angle.

Face it, the guy is getting alot of legit calls, just because hes getting to the line alot doesnt mean hes getting bailed out.

dabears34ft
05-27-2009, 11:40 PM
Ignoring your dramatic tone, the trip looked legit, the block was a hard angle.

Face it, the guy is getting alot of legit calls, just because hes getting to the line alot doesnt mean hes getting bailed out.

Your blind if you think lebron gets legit calls.

Chronz
05-28-2009, 12:34 AM
Wow didnt see that one coming

JordansBulls
05-28-2009, 12:35 AM
LOL Whats the right way? They arent showing up period, he cant make the shots for them and its not like they are doing anything when hes not on the floor so its obviously not at their expense.

He is controlling the ball too much and taking too many shots at the outset of the game. He needs to get his team going first. When you are on an elite team there is no need for you to get it going from the get go. You need to get others going first.

Chronz
05-28-2009, 12:43 AM
He is controlling the ball too much and taking too many shots at the outset of the game. He needs to get his team going first. When you are on an elite team there is no need for you to get it going from the get go. You need to get others going first.

He tried that route, the team either falls behind or the players arent getting it done. Coaches dont all of a sudden forget the plays that worked for them all year, the reason they are going to Bron is because its literally their only chance of winning with the way theyve played. The fact that every game has come down to the wire is a testament to Bron's greatness.

Yes there needs to be more ball movement, but if players arent making their shots, you cant stick to a losing method. Once the players start hitting their WIDE OPEN shots, then there will be no reason for Bron to hog.

JordansBulls
05-28-2009, 12:46 AM
He tried that route, the team either falls behind or the players arent getting it done. Coaches dont all of a sudden forget the plays that worked for them all year, the reason they are going to Bron is because its literally their only chance of winning with the way theyve played. The fact that every game has come down to the wire is a testament to Bron's greatness.

Maybe if the Magic was the team who had HCA, but when the Cavs have it and everyone picked them to win than I beg to differ.
It seems like Lebron is more concerned about how he plays and his numbers over everyone else.

Just from observing Lebron, I'm sure he wants to win a title and is a competitor, but to me he seems to focus on his numbers more than anything else.

Chronz
05-28-2009, 12:56 AM
Maybe if the Magic was the team who had HCA, but when the Cavs have it and everyone picked them to win than I beg to differ.
It seems like Lebron is more concerned about how he plays and his numbers over everyone else.

Just from observing Lebron, I'm sure he wants to win a title and is a competitor, but to me he seems to focus on his numbers more than anything else.
Specifically which one of my points were you begging to differ on?

It doesnt seem like LeBron is concerned about his #'s at all, thats just what people say when they have nothing relevant to hate on. Bron is playing to WIN, why would he care about his #'s if it comes at the expense of winning? Thats like a catch-22, people always hold winning in an absurdly high regard, its not any less important than #'s are to a players career. He wants to go down as a GOAT/ICON. You dont do that by putting losing first

montazingmvp
05-28-2009, 02:02 AM
his stat line is 44-7-7 shooting over 50 percent this series.. again you wouldnt realize that because you no nothing about the game

i haven't looked at the stats to make sure but i'm pretty confident that lebron is not shooting over 50%....

most of the games that i've seen he's shot well below 50%

ARMIN12NBA
05-28-2009, 02:10 AM
Specifically which one of my points were you begging to differ on?

It doesnt seem like LeBron is concerned about his #'s at all, thats just what people say when they have nothing relevant to hate on. Bron is playing to WIN, why would he care about his #'s if it comes at the expense of winning? Thats like a catch-22, people always hold winning in an absurdly high regard, its not any less important than #'s are to a players career. He wants to go down as a GOAT/ICON. You dont do that by putting losing first

I think he wants to get his stats and win.

The fact remains that Lebron is not using the same regular season formula that got the Cavs so much success.

This is more like the 2008 Lebron. Dribble, dribble, dribble, drive, then score or pass. His teammates are not use to that whatsoever.

ARMIN12NBA
05-28-2009, 02:11 AM
Ignoring your dramatic tone, the trip looked legit, the block was a hard angle.

Face it, the guy is getting alot of legit calls, just because hes getting to the line alot doesnt mean hes getting bailed out.

And a lot of illegitimate calls.

The block by Howard was NOT a foul by any stretch of the imagination.

The call on Pietrus with 0.5 left was completely bogus. It was either offensive or a no call.

ARMIN12NBA
05-28-2009, 02:13 AM
BTW--Chronz, you are not the most interesting man in the world. :pity: That title belongs to another fella I know. Oh man, that was one crazy weekend!

theuuord
05-28-2009, 02:21 AM
BTW--Chronz, you are not the most interesting man in the world. :pity: That title belongs to another fella I know. Oh man, that was one crazy weekend!

stay thirsty, my friend ...

ARMIN12NBA
05-28-2009, 02:24 AM
stay thirsty, my friend ...

Dos Equis.

Lakersfan2483
05-28-2009, 02:58 AM
Ignoring your dramatic tone, the trip looked legit, the block was a hard angle.

Face it, the guy is getting alot of legit calls, just because hes getting to the line alot doesnt mean hes getting bailed out.

A lot of his calls have not been legit as well, especially that call with .5 seconds left in game 4. Game 3 was one of the poorest officiated games I have seen in terms of the officiating at the end of the ball game. Lebron was bailed out so many times in that game.

Chronz
05-28-2009, 03:03 AM
I think he wants to get his stats and win.

The fact remains that Lebron is not using the same regular season formula that got the Cavs so much success.

This is more like the 2008 Lebron. Dribble, dribble, dribble, drive, then score or pass. His teammates are not use to that whatsoever.

Explained above, its by design, teams dont all of a sudden forget what got them wins, they arent making the very same shots that they had all year, the end result is Bron has to carry a bigger load because they arent showing up, not vice versa.


And a lot of illegitimate calls.

The block by Howard was NOT a foul by any stretch of the imagination.

The call on Pietrus with 0.5 left was completely bogus. It was either offensive or a no call.
Not really, its just the fact that hes getting to the line so much and getting teams into foul trouble that the mistakes are magnified. The trip was a legit call, dont know what your complaining about.



BTW--Chronz, you are not the most interesting man in the world. :pity: That title belongs to another fella I know. Oh man, that was one crazy weekend!
Good to have you back