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mjj221
05-20-2009, 11:10 PM
I don't know. Back in Chicago I remember thinking Sosa was too good. Bonds was too good. A Rod was too good. Now when I watch Lebron he almost looks too big and too good. I hope he's not, but it's on my mind.

theuuord
05-20-2009, 11:14 PM
stop this madness.

montazingmvp
05-20-2009, 11:17 PM
lebrons strength doesn't put the ball in the basket. his coordination does....sure his strength at times gets him closer to the basket but that is it...actually his strength doesn't even get him to the basket, once again his coordination (ball handling) does

montazingmvp
05-20-2009, 11:18 PM
and i don't see anyone saying anything about dwight..the man completely relies on his strength and athletisim.

Evolution=FACT
05-20-2009, 11:25 PM
I'm pretty sure he's done something. He's just too good, too freak of naturish.

mgkibbles
05-20-2009, 11:27 PM
Lol wow what a stupid thread. Lebron has been huge ever since his HS days, hes not taking any sort of HGH...maybe some weed, but not HGH.

Driven
05-20-2009, 11:27 PM
I'm pretty sure he's done something. He's just too good, too freak of naturish.
Some people are just born with those qualities. It might be 1 out of every million, but there are certainly people who just are lucky to have their body.

It's not like Yao's on steroids because he's 7'6".

Sly Guy
05-20-2009, 11:29 PM
You guys actually think it's possible to propel yourself 40"+ in the air without some kind of help? let alone weight 260lbs and do it? Drugs are in basketball too.

aNYer
05-20-2009, 11:29 PM
agreed with the fact that he has been like that all his life, he never had a big jump and has had cameras on him 24/7 since he was like 16. Someone would have noticed something. This thread is pure speculation with out any reason to even slightly suggest it could be the case

dodie53
05-20-2009, 11:30 PM
lebron is just gifted.

xabial
05-20-2009, 11:31 PM
Yea i guess Jordan was on HGH too.. :laugh:
you might as well Just assume every all star in the NBA is on HGH

Only one i might consider is Shaq, he brought down the hoop twice..;)

mjj221
05-20-2009, 11:31 PM
and i don't see anyone saying anything about dwight..the man completely relies on his strength and athletisim.

He might be on something too. I don't know.

Anthony Flores
05-20-2009, 11:32 PM
/Thread, no point, no evidence he's just gifted it's unfair to assume.

tdunk21
05-20-2009, 11:34 PM
stupid pointless thread.......

mjj221
05-20-2009, 11:34 PM
agreed with the fact that he has been like that all his life, he never had a big jump and has had cameras on him 24/7 since he was like 16. Someone would have noticed something. This thread is pure speculation with out any reason to even slightly suggest it could be the case

It is speculation. I said from the start that I'm obviously not sure.

carter15
05-20-2009, 11:35 PM
You guys actually think it's possible to propel yourself 40"+ in the air without some kind of help? let alone weight 260lbs and do it? Drugs are in basketball too.

so every great dunker....vince, iggy, josh smith, kobe, nique etc etc etc...i no i missed a lot of guys but thats not the point....take something cuz they can jump high?!?! not an intelligent thing to say

ink
05-20-2009, 11:37 PM
and i don't see anyone saying anything about dwight..the man completely relies on his strength and athletisim.

I wouldn't be very surprised if Dwight was using PED's.


Lol wow what a stupid thread. Lebron has been huge ever since his HS days, hes not taking any sort of HGH...maybe some weed, but not HGH.

HGH was being used when he was in high school.


You guys actually think it's possible to propel yourself 40"+ in the air without some kind of help? let alone weight 260lbs and do it? Drugs are in basketball too.

Very likely. It's funny that after we've seen enhanced performance out of athletes for about 50 years because of PED's, people still want to turn a blind eye.

69centers
05-20-2009, 11:39 PM
He's just a b-ball player with a football players build. I wonder if his cramping tonight was from all that rest in between real game time action.

montazingmvp
05-20-2009, 11:50 PM
He's just a b-ball player with a football players build. I wonder if his cramping tonight was from all that rest in between real game time action.

exactly, i rarely see football players questioned for this stuff. and most of them have lebrons body plus bigger...of course most of them are on hgh etc. but not all.

ink
05-20-2009, 11:59 PM
The Needle and the Damage Done: The NBA and HGH

“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.” – John F. Kennedy

If we as sports fans succeed at any one feat in particular, it is that of myth making. We form narratives that call for super-powered heroes to save the game, to save the day, to save the city of suffering fans. Our compulsion with creating larger-than-life figures owes a great deal to another habit exhibited by fans of all sports: self-delusion.

We mislead ourselves all the time. We tell ourselves that changing the channel will impact the outcome of a game thousands of miles away. We swear that owners care about the fans that pay for season tickets. On and on, such half-truths and contrived dishonesty continue.

Nowhere is this more obvious than on the subject of performance enhancing drugs and their (unquestionable) place in the games we love. For years, baseball fans acted oblivious toward the mounting validity of claims that the game was wrought with cheating. Fans closed their eyes and covered their ears when confronted with the truth, in a feeble attempt to protect themselves from the reality that players are not righteous demigods who are pure of heart and without fault. They are not immaculate. They are not incorruptible.

Baseball fans have tried to protect themselves from this truth. NFL fans continue to ignore the mounds of evidence pointing towards steroid abuse. The only question left to ask now is: are NBA fans doing the same thing?

It would seem to me that NBA fans everywhere have a highly developed capacity for self-delusion. Players may be deceiving them, but in reality they are only deceiving themselves if they truly believe that no one in the league is using performance enhancers. The probability that at least some players have used PEDs (specifically HGH) is too overwhelming to tune it out forever.

Certainly, I have nothing but observation and a distrusting nature that leads me to this conclusion. I have no smoking gun, no inside sources, no informant that has lead me down the rabbit hole towards this odious viewpoint.

Investigations must happen before anything can be said with any real certainty. Once the facts are had, we can distort them however we choose to. We can play them up, or set them on an angle, or misrepresent them altogether. Sourced, hard information must come before anyone is accused in earnest.

But with that said, please have a look for yourself at photographs of the body types of NBA players in the 1980s compared to those today. Hell, look at those as recently as 2000. There is a very clear trend: players are bigger, stronger, faster, and more athletic than ever before.

Look at Ben Wallace and compare him to power forwards of yesteryear: Kevin McHale, Kurt Rambis, Horace Grant. Gaze at LeBron James and appreciate that he is the size that Karl Malone was in 1998, when the Mailman was the most physically dominant power forward in the game. Examine Dwight Howard next to classic photos of Patrick Ewing and try to explain how improved weight-lifting techniques could account for such changes in growth.

Again, I am not accusing these specific players of anything. I merely use them as examples to prove my point that the public is reliving the lie it lead in 1998, when we were all so enchanted with the Chase for 62 that we never stopped to ask questions. The NBA now features the biggest, strongest athletes it has ever had, yet no one questions this.

What’s more, these athletes are recovering from injury and age in ways no one has ever seen. Procedures that once put a career in jeopardy are now relatively safe. Recovery times are accelerated ten-fold, and players that seemed on their last legs suddenly seem to be as spire, nimble, and healthy as ever. If Dwyane Wade were a baseball player and experienced the sort of career rebirth and physical rejuvenation he has this season after his shoulder and knee looked completely spent 12 short months ago, we would be suspicious. Not so with basketball.

HGH is banned by the NBA, but there is no reliable urine test to detect its presence. Billy Hunter, the NBA player’s union executive director, has said he will let never players be blood tested for HGH.

“My guys are tested enough…We don’t participate in a sport where there’s a need for human growth hormone.”

Really, Mr. Hunter? It might not be in a basketball player’s best interest to recover more quickly from injury, or to increase the density of fast-twitch muscle fiber in his legs?

HGH assists users in becoming bigger, stronger, faster while helping them recover quickly from weight preparation and the grind of continuous stress (like, perhaps, 82 games a year of profession-level basketball). While HGH is produced naturally in the pituitary gland inside the brain, using artificially high levels of the hormone will rejuvenate the body in astonishing ways, aiding healing and slowing the signs of aging.

PEDs may not help a three-point shooter with his accuracy. They may not improve his court vision. Yet it might allow him to recover more quickly from knee surgery. Or to fight off recurring back issues. Or to improve mobility and speed at an advanced age…

Yes, I am not-so-subtly raising an eyebrow at the seemingly-magical healing powers possessed by the Phoenix Suns’ training staff. Lauded as the league’s best operation, they have allowed Amare Stoudemire to recover from multiple career-threatening surgeries quickly, have strengthened Steve Nash’s ailing back considerably, have allowed Grant Hill to achieve level of sustained health he had not experienced in decades, and rejuvenated Shaquille O’Neal to a mobility and fitness level he hasn’t shown since his time as a Laker.

Where there is smoke, there needn’t be fire, but there still might be.

Mark Woods of Great Britain’s Guardian has written at length about how open the NBA’s testing system is to abuse. He has cited that David Stern does not want to conduct a “witch hunt” for players using PEDs, and that the league lags behind other operations in terms of testing and enforcement.

Stern is among those that wrongfully point out that steroids would not improve a player’s game, as the sport is more about coordination and motor skills than sheer power or force. Yet as a certain point-power forward/linebacker in Cleveland can attest, muscle and strength equals power. To highlight what a serious advantage this is would be redundant.

It has been said that no one can wear a mask for long. Eventually, everything comes into the light, and we see things for what they truly are. If this is the case for the NBA, what is it exactly that we might see? Could it be that, in fact, we are baring witness to the greatest collection of physical specimens this or any other profession sporting league has every seen, athletes so rarely blessed with a combination of speed and brute power that they define traditional positions?

Or is something else happening here? Something darker, something that, deep down in places we don’t like to talk about, we already know if we are honest with ourselves and put aside the great myth of sport that all athletes are saints, that they are all honest, and that they are all noble.

Let it not be that our love blinds us. Let us seek the truth, whatever that may be. Perhaps there is no concealment, and all players are clean. But we must make sure. We cannot let our love for the game continue to manufacture a sense of self-delusion that everything is virtuous and reputable only to justify the trouble we take to follow basketball.

That is not fair, that is not enough. We need just the facts, not adjusted facts.

http://theondeckcircle.net/2009/03/the-needle-and-the-damage-done-the-nba-and-hgh/

ink
05-21-2009, 12:07 AM
btw, a test for HGH involving blood test exists but it is not currently being administered in the NBA.


Does a test for hGH exist?

A test for hGH was first introduced at the 2004 Summer Olympic Games in Athens, Greece. The test to detect hGH abuse is a blood test.

Is the hGH test reliable?

The current test is reliable.

Another test, in its final development stage, will be combined with the current test to further enhance the detection window for hGH abuse.

The concepts and development of both hGH tests have been systematically reviewed by international independent experts in such fields as hGH, endocrinology, immunoassay, analytical chemistry, etc. In addition, these tests are the outcome of nearly US$6 million in research over the course of more than 10 years.

Research was initiated by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) and the European Union, and then taken over by WADA when it was created and had adopted scientific research as one of its priority activities.

Why has there been only a limited implementation of the current hGH test?

The current test is based on the blood matrix and was initially implemented on a limited scale to a number of the WADA-accredited anti-doping laboratories worldwide.

The antibodies used for the current tests were initially produced in a research environment. The production of antibodies in a research environment is characteristically small.

Industrial production of the anti-bodies was the following step for the widespread implementation of the hGH test.

When will the industrial production be ready?

It is ready.

Efforts made by WADA for widespread production of antibodies needed for hGH detection were slowed following the take-over if the company with which WADA had an agreement for the development of these antibodies, and the decision made by the company’s new management in 2006 to stop its cooperation with WADA.

WADA subsequently found a new partner for the large scale production and distribution of antibodies kits.
The kits have now been validated, and mass production of the kits has started.

Why have there been no positive cases for hGH so far?

The test was introduced at the Athens Olympic Games in 2004 and other major sport events. However, because hGH is often taken by doping athletes in the off-season to optimize performance, the test is most effective when implemented in a no-advance-notice out-of-competition strategy.

Widespread implementation of the test may change these statistics.

Is a urine test for hGH likely to be developed?

According to the majority of international experts, the blood matrix is the most suitable matrix for the detection of hGH.

hGH in urine is found in extremely small quantities (less than 1% than that found in blood).

WADA is collaborating with research teams to explore the development of urine-based detection methods for hGH.

World Anti-doping Agency (http://www.wada-ama.org/en/dynamic.ch2?pageCategory.id=627)

KB24PG16
05-21-2009, 12:09 AM
wow^ they didnt even test for it

ink
05-21-2009, 12:18 AM
btw, in fairness, I changed the thread title. If HGH is being used (and not tested for) in the NBA, you can guarantee that it's not just the marquee players that are using it. The NBA just doesn't want to confront this issue.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-21-2009, 12:19 AM
HGH gives men big heads and abnormal shoulders. Dwight and LeBron have some huge @$$ heads. I dont ever remember Dwight being that big. And his shoulders look disproportioned to the rest of his arms I remember him saying he got pushed around at 20 years old. The very next year, he comes back a freak of nature. I think it would be very dumb to turn a blind eye that football, basketball and baseball players are not using PED'S. I bet there are tons of basketball players on some type of PED. Any professional athlete is looking to get an edge. And a drug that helps build muscle, heal injuries, help your body recover faster, would be very useful in basketball. I would not be surprised one bit if one of those guys got popped. They both failed my eyeball test by the size of their foreheads. Them and Barry Bonds should start a Huge Head Club

Miami_Megatron
05-21-2009, 12:31 AM
stop this madness.

:clap::clap::clap:

aNYer
05-21-2009, 12:32 AM
It is speculation. I said from the start that I'm obviously not sure.

my point was that there is no proof whatso ever, not a radical shift in size or performance. Not an unusual growth or sudden muscle development. He has been in the spot light for damn near 10 years and he is only 24(?) There would be some sort of evidence unless you are going to speculate that he has been on HGH since the age of 13 or 14.

Miami_Megatron
05-21-2009, 12:33 AM
he's just a b-ball player with a football players build. I wonder if his cramping tonight was from all that rest in between real game time action.

yep!!

MaHaRaJaH
05-21-2009, 12:33 AM
You guys actually think it's possible to propel yourself 40"+ in the air without some kind of help? let alone weight 260lbs and do it? Drugs are in basketball too.

Sure, just like how Bruce Lee can Easily kick a 300lb bag back with a bang.

aNYer
05-21-2009, 12:35 AM
exactly, i rarely see football players questioned for this stuff. and most of them have lebrons body plus bigger...of course most of them are on hgh etc. but not all.

football players might be on it but they are built differently. A PG in the NBA is as tall as the average NFL player. 6'4 is a guard where as in the NBA that would be a really big QB

Teeboy1487
05-21-2009, 12:36 AM
Epic Failure

aNYer
05-21-2009, 12:36 AM
Sure, just like how Bruce Lee can Easily kick a 300lb bag back with a bang.

if this is in reference to what I think it is I think your confusing him with someone else with SLY in his name.

ink
05-21-2009, 12:39 AM
Researchers say they're getting closer to HGH test

Anti-doping authority Don Catlin and cancer detection expert Lance Liotta say they're progressing toward a urine test for human growth hormone that could close a major drug-testing loophole.
By Lance Pugmire
November 11, 2008

The man described as the "guru of sports doping" and an East Coast cancer detection expert said they're on the way to establishing a urine test for human growth hormone that could close a drug-testing loophole experts described Monday as a "widespread" problem in sports.

Don Catlin, a Los Angeles-based worldwide doping expert who oversaw blood testing for HGH at the Beijing Olympics, and Dr. Lance Liotta, a former pathology lab chief at the National Cancer Institute's Center for Cancer Research, have launched a study to build upon Liotta's ability to identify isolated markers of HGH in urine.

"This is a groundbreaking step that'll change the game a bit," Catlin said Monday at a first-ever Growth Hormone Summit staged at the Beverly Hills Hotel.

-----

Cautioning that such research is conducted "in fits and starts," UCLA professor Gary Green, the summit director who serves as MLB's consultant on performance-enhancing drugs, said a realistic timeline for HGH urine testing would be the 2012 Summer Games in London.

The clock will tick amid abuses, summit attendees warned.

"Growth hormone promotes muscle mass and reduces fat mass . . . and is widely used by athletes," Dr. Richard I.G. Holt of England's University of Southampton said.

LA Times (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/nov/11/sports/sp-hgh11)

ManRam
05-21-2009, 12:40 AM
This thread is a fail.

It's a shame that whenever you are a superstar, or extremely athletically gifted, that steroids or HGH will automatically float around you.

If you took HGH, to make your natural frame bigger, your body wouldn't be able to support your new bulk as easily. If his size isn't natural, he wouldn't physically be able to do the athletic things he does. He's frame wouldn't support it. It has to be natural. When you bulk up past a certain point, you slow down. LeBron isn't slowing doing because his size is within the limits his natural body can support.

ink
05-21-2009, 12:40 AM
Wow. A lot of heads in the sand on this one. :pity: A lot of the guys that are disagreeing with the thread don't have a clue what they're talking about. HGH use is WIDESPREAD and it DOESN'T distort body proportion like some of you guys are saying. It builds muscle mass, helps quicken recovery in between practices, and reduces fat mass.

The reason it's not being tested for is because the only test available is a blood test and it's too difficult to administer an intrusive testing program like that.

The NFL and MLB are working hard to come up with a less invasive test, a urine test, and then making that mandatory. The NBA and the NHL are both completely in denial.

HGH use is a fact in sport.

montazingmvp
05-21-2009, 12:44 AM
my point was that there is no proof whatso ever, not a radical shift in size or performance. Not an unusual growth or sudden muscle development. He has been in the spot light for damn near 10 years and he is only 24(?) There would be some sort of evidence unless you are going to speculate that he has been on HGH since the age of 13 or 14.

i know people generally get bigger from hs to the pro, but to say lebron has always been huge is WRONG...

http://api.ning.com/files/SFkthsuw-LoYegpk0*IMyGwYKSE5P8ZHjahCMzNmGes_/LeBron_James_HS_lPortrait.jpg

thats him in hs

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KvsntXE6X_8/Rl-uSDGkINI/AAAAAAAAAA8/Zz-YStOXmt0/s400/lebron.jpg

that is him now...please don't say he hasn't gotten bigger...

he's put on upward of 30lbs since hs...which is a lot

in other words...stop spreading lies

his forearms put on 10lbs by themselves...damn

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-21-2009, 12:45 AM
This thread is a fail.

It's a shame that whenever you are a superstar, or extremely athletically gifted, that steroids or HGH will automatically float around you.

If you took HGH, to make your natural frame bigger, your body wouldn't be able to support your new bulk as easily. If his size isn't natural, he wouldn't physically be able to do the athletic things he does. He's frame wouldn't support it. It has to be natural. When you bulk up past a certain point, you slow down. LeBron isn't slowing doing because his size is within the limits his natural body can support.

What???? If that is true, why do SO MANY professional athletes take these drugs? Why are all of baseballs best players getting popped for this type of stuff.

I dont remember Shawn Merrion of the Chargers tripping over himself when he got popped for PED'S. They do not hurt your athletic ability. They increase it 10 fold.

montazingmvp
05-21-2009, 12:47 AM
This thread is a fail.

It's a shame that whenever you are a superstar, or extremely athletically gifted, that steroids or HGH will automatically float around you.

If you took HGH, to make your natural frame bigger, your body wouldn't be able to support your new bulk as easily. If his size isn't natural, he wouldn't physically be able to do the athletic things he does. He's frame wouldn't support it. It has to be natural. When you bulk up past a certain point, you slow down. LeBron isn't slowing doing because his size is within the limits his natural body can support.

lebron is bigger than any bball player we've ever seen, with the speed and quickness to go along with it...that is why he is questioned as opposed to say barkley or jordan, or even kobe

ink
05-21-2009, 12:48 AM
What???? If that is true, why do SO MANY professional athletes take these drugs? Why are all of baseballs best players getting popped for this type of stuff.

I dont remember Shawn Merrion of the Chargers tripping over himself when he got popped for PED'S. They do not hurt your athletic ability. They increase it 10 fold.

Exactly right. People need to do a bit of reading before commenting about this stuff. There's tons and tons of reliable information about PEDs on the internet, and there's no reason to remain ignorant about it.

In fact, it's a huge health risk and a lot of high school students are blindly taking that risk all the time. Huge problem.

abe_froman
05-21-2009, 12:49 AM
lebron is bigger than any bball player we've ever seen, with the speed and quickness to go along with it...that is why he is questioned as opposed to say barkley or jordan, or even kobe

serious..?

and to the op any other reason for this belief besides "he's really good"?

ink
05-21-2009, 12:49 AM
lebron is bigger than any bball player we've ever seen, with the speed and quickness to go along with it...that is why he is questioned as opposed to say barkley or jordan, or even kobe

I wouldn't just point the finger at LBJ. Any one of the top athletes in the league could be using. It's not just an accusation about one player. That's the point scientists who study this are making: it is completely WIDESPREAD. Let's not be naive about this. The Mitchell report should have made it clear by now how ridiculous it is for us to be naive about professional athletes and PEDs.

aNYer
05-21-2009, 12:50 AM
i know people generally get bigger from hs to the pro, but to say lebron has always been huge is WRONG...

http://api.ning.com/files/SFkthsuw-LoYegpk0*IMyGwYKSE5P8ZHjahCMzNmGes_/LeBron_James_HS_lPortrait.jpg

thats him in hs

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KvsntXE6X_8/Rl-uSDGkINI/AAAAAAAAAA8/Zz-YStOXmt0/s400/lebron.jpg

that is him now...please don't say he hasn't gotten bigger...

he's put on upward of 30lbs since hs...which is a lot

in other words...stop spreading lies

I didn't say he has not grown since HS, I said he did not have a significant growth spurt or improvement in skill. In fact the only real change in his game is the addition of an outside shot. Other then that its all been reasonable improvements if you assume that one of the best players in the world is constantly working out and honing his craft. If you worked out trained and played basketball every day from junior high till the age of 24 then you would get cut like that too. If you can find a year where he dramatically improved in skill or size an inordinate amount please point it out.

EDIT I am not even saying its out of the question for him or anyone, I am just saying I don't see it with him just cause he has been on my TV for so many years with out a radical change.

ink
05-21-2009, 12:52 AM
I didn't say he has not grown since HS, I said he did not have a significant growth spurt or improvement in skill.

If he started using in HS, his quick development would have happened then, not between HS and the NBA.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-21-2009, 12:52 AM
Wow. A lot of heads in the sand on this one. :pity: A lot of the guys that are disagreeing with the thread don't have a clue what they're talking about. HGH use is WIDESPREAD and it DOESN'T distort body proportion like some of you guys are saying. It builds muscle mass, helps quicken recovery in between practices, and reduces fat mass.

The reason it's not being tested for is because the only test available is a blood test and it's too difficult to administer an intrusive testing program like that.

The NFL and MLB are working hard to come up with a less invasive test, a urine test, and then making that mandatory. The NBA and the NHL are both completely in denial.

HGH use is a fact in sport.


Oh but it does. Lebron and especially Dwight have some funny looking foreheads.
http://www.antiaginginfo.net/hgh-side-effects.htm


HGH side effects are a concern for anyone looking at hormone therapy to slow down or reverse the aging process. The side effects of HGH use can be scary and researchers are still working on the optimal dosage to reduce adverse reactions and enhance results. As with any drug each person must weigh the benefits against the drawbacks and decide if the end justifies the means.

HGH side effects range from the minor joint pain and some fluid retention to the more serious high blood pressure and abnormal bone and cartilage growth. Most medicinal use of HGH focuses on short-term correction of a hormonal imbalance. General growth hormone side effects from this type of use tend to be fluid retention, joint pain, a reversible insulin resistance, and some joint swelling.

HGH for anti-aging or "plastic surgery in a bottle" use leads to more long-term complications such as high blood pressure, more serious fluid retention, chronic joint pain and swelling, and some facial bone growth. Long-term abuse, as seen in athletic use, can lead to more pronounced, and sometimes deadly, side effects such as irregular heart rhythms, increased risk of diabetes, joint and facial deformities, and a shut down of the pituitary glands.

HGH side effects can be reduced by limiting the length of time the hormone is used. Lowering the dosage of human growth hormone can also reduce the number and severity of these reactions. Human growth hormone is a drug. The introduction of any foreign substance, even if your body produces some naturally, will trigger reactions by the body. These reactions cause the effects that we see with any drug. HGH side effects also come from the extra growth hormone in the body along with what is already produced by the pituitary glands.

Some of the more serious side effects of HGH come from the abuse of the hormone. This abuse can come in the form of taking too much of the substance or taking it for too long. Milder versions of these problems can occur from the abuse of supplemental forms of HGH sold over-the-counter.

Your body needs time to return to a normal state of function. If you take more than the suggested dosage for a long period of time you will see complications arise from this abuse. You liver has to work harder to process this externally introduced HGH running through your blood. This could lead to liver stress, and ultimately liver damage. Your body may recognize a higher level of HGH in the bloodstream and stop producing as much for itself. If this goes on long enough the pituitary glands begin to shut down.

HGH side effects can come from any HGH use. Minimizing the side effects by lower the dosage and the length of time on the growth hormone can be helpful. Each person must weigh the benefits against the possibilities and decide if this course will help them reach their anti aging goals.

ManRam
05-21-2009, 12:53 AM
Wow. A lot of heads in the sand on this one. :pity: A lot of the guys that are disagreeing with the thread don't have a clue what they're talking about. HGH use is WIDESPREAD and it DOESN'T distort body proportion like some of you guys are saying. It builds muscle mass, helps quicken recovery in between practices, and reduces fat mass.

I know for a fact HGH increases bone density and mass, along with muscle mass. Yes, it decreases fat, but the effects of HGH can increase your bulk. Technically, it is classified as an anabolic drug...anabolic meaning it a "building up" drug. But if you are trying to get big like LeBron or Dwight, HGH isn't going to do it.

Studies on children showed that HGH increases height, thus it physically makes people taller, and thus distorts.

I wrote a paper on anabolic steroids, and HGH for my science writing class this year in college. HGH does distort your body. Yes, it's very widespread and virtually undetectable...but it does distort body proportion...just not to the level people think.

In fact, there is no evidence that HGH even enhances athletic ability. It increases your physical appearance, and is more important for injury prevention than anything else. You can bulk up some, and it can distort your body....just not significantly.

Again, you don't get that big by taking HGH.

I don't think LeBron takes anything, HGH or not...again, because if he was bigger than his body naturally wants him to be...there's no way he's the freak he is.

BTownTeamsRKing
05-21-2009, 12:53 AM
Wow. A lot of heads in the sand on this one. :pity: A lot of the guys that are disagreeing with the thread don't have a clue what they're talking about. HGH use is WIDESPREAD and it DOESN'T distort body proportion like some of you guys are saying. It builds muscle mass, helps quicken recovery in between practices, and reduces fat mass.

The reason it's not being tested for is because the only test available is a blood test and it's too difficult to administer an intrusive testing program like that.

The NFL and MLB are working hard to come up with a less invasive test, a urine test, and then making that mandatory. The NBA and the NHL are both completely in denial.

HGH use is a fact in sport.

what a crazy coincidence! my friend was trying to convince me lebron is on something and then i see this thread.

I agree with what your saying completely. Heads in the sand about 10 ft deep. All of those on here that do not even consider this a possibly are CONTRIBUTING to the problem of PEDs in sports. Your acting like theres no way anyone in the NBA ever took anything.

This is the same stupid damn attitude that DESTROYED baseball. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

looking at the signs, it is very possible Lebron and Howard took something. more likely Lebron. he is a freak of nature.

a guy who weighs 270 lbs. jumps 40+ inches. Fastest player in the league. Wake up people and get your heads from under your beds. He is a freak and it is def a possibly he was on some kind of PED.

montazingmvp
05-21-2009, 12:57 AM
serious..?

and to the op any other reason for this belief besides "he's really good"?

yes lebron is the biggest player to ever play, with the agility etc...

name a bigger player with speed and agility like bron...i'm not trying to single out lebron, but he's a great example of someone who could be using...

another guy i've been kind of suspicous of is maggette...never realized how huge he was til he came to the warriors

Randy West
05-21-2009, 12:57 AM
Lebron was like a grown man in high school who only got bigger......now I am sure you had one of those guys at your high school or in your neighborhood.

You know a kid around the same age that just seemed to mature quicker than everyone else.......That is a Lebron........to go from an average guy to having forearms like a bodybuilders.......McGuire, Canseco, Sosa........that is a different thing altogether.

ink
05-21-2009, 01:00 AM
In fact, there is no evidence that HGH even enhances athletic ability. It increases your physical appearance, and is more important for injury prevention than anything else. You can bulk up some, and it can distort your body....just not significantly.

What I'm contrasting it with is the huge body changes you might have seen with steroids. HGH creates more subtle changes than they did. Of course, we've all seen Barry Bonds' head size quadruple, but there are other athletes using and it's not as detectable to the eye.

And there are studies on both sides saying yes and no about enhanced performance. The fact is, athletes are getting results, and we know they are taking. That was proven by the Mitchell report and the BALCO investigations, which, btw, were not all done on baseball players. It's too late to pretend that players aren't using PEDs, and that they're not benefitting. That ship has already sailed.

montazingmvp
05-21-2009, 01:01 AM
I know for a fact HGH increases bone density and mass, along with muscle mass. Yes, it decreases fat, but the effects of HGH can increase your bulk. Technically, it is classified as an anabolic drug...anabolic meaning it a "building up" drug. But if you are trying to get big like LeBron or Dwight, HGH isn't going to do it.

Studies on children showed that HGH increases height, thus it physically makes people taller, and thus distorts.

I wrote a paper on anabolic steroids, and HGH for my science writing class this year in college. HGH does distort your body. Yes, it's very widespread and virtually undetectable...but it does distort body proportion...just not to the level people think.

In fact, there is no evidence that HGH even enhances athletic ability. It increases your physical appearance, and is more important for injury prevention than anything else. You can bulk up some, and it can distort your body....just not significantly.

Again, you don't get that big by taking HGH.

I don't think LeBron takes anything, HGH or not...again, because if he was bigger than his body naturally wants him to be...there's no way he's the freak he is.

how is there no proof for hgh improving athletic ability, when essentially what it is doing is building muscle...

maybe there's a simple answer but that seems sort of oxymoronic...doesn't more muscle equate to a more athletic person..

abe_froman
05-21-2009, 01:01 AM
yes lebron is the biggest player to ever play, with the agility etc...

name a bigger player with speed and agility like bron...i'm not trying to single out lebron, but he's a great example of someone who could be using...

another guy i've been kind of suspicous of is maggette...never realized how huge he was til he came to the warriors

not saying he is or isnt using,he could be

just but there have been tons of huge freaks going back to wilt

BTownTeamsRKing
05-21-2009, 01:02 AM
HGH is used widely in baseball and football, why would anyone not think it is used in the NBA? thats beyond me

montazingmvp
05-21-2009, 01:02 AM
Lebron was like a grown man in high school who only got bigger......now I am sure you had one of those guys at your high school or in your neighborhood.

You know a kid around the same age that just seemed to mature quicker than everyone else.......That is a Lebron........to go from an average guy to having forearms like a bodybuilders.......McGuire, Canseco, Sosa........that is a different thing altogether.

no i've never seen anyone bigger than lebron..and don't pretend like you have either...the biggest dude i've ever seen went to my school. he was 6'8" and probably weighed as much as lebron...only problem was he is fat

ink
05-21-2009, 01:04 AM
how is there no proof for hgh improving athletic ability, when essentially what it is doing is building muscle...

maybe there's a simple answer but that seems sort of oxymoronic...doesn't more muscle equate to a more athletic person..

Exactly. That's why HGH is the drug of choice. It doesn't produce Arnold Schwarzenegger type bodies that are basically useless in sport. HGH produces lean, fit, powerful muscle mass. If an athlete is already talented to begin with, and they add some muscle mass, they're going to have more power, speed, leaping ability, and improved recovery time.

ManRam
05-21-2009, 01:05 AM
What I'm contrasting it with is the huge body changes you might have seen with steroids. HGH creates more subtle changes than they did. Of course, we've all seen Barry Bonds' head size quadruple, but there are other athletes using and it's not as detectable to the eye.

Which is why this thread is dumb. People are assuming that LeBron is as big as he is because of HGH use. First off, HGH isn't what makes you that big. Secondly, what my first post was talking about, if they were taking anabolic steroids, there is no why they'd be able to jump as high, run as fast, or stay healthy. Steroids are popular in baseball because strength is more important than aerobic athleticism. Steroids wont ever be popular in the NBA because they make people injury prone, and bulking up past what your body naturally can handle, in most cases, especially someone like LeBron, would do far more bad than good.

HGH is in all likelihood used commonly in the NBA...but people have to realize that it doesn't make you big, like you said. It makes you leaner if anything. It is very beneficial, but it isn't why Dwight and LeBron are huge.

I know I sounded like a disagree with what you are saying...but I agree with youfar more than I disagree.

BTownTeamsRKing
05-21-2009, 01:07 AM
Again, HGH is used so much in sports, why the heck do people think it is some huge stretch to think NBA players are doing it?

ink
05-21-2009, 01:08 AM
Which is why this thread is dumb. People are assuming that LeBron is as big as he is because of HGH use. First off, HGH isn't what makes you that big. Secondly, what my first post was talking about, if they were taking anabolic steroids, there is no why they'd be able to jump as high, run as fast, or stay healthy. Steroids are popular in baseball because strength is more important than aerobic athleticism. Steroids wont ever be popular in the NBA because they make people injury prone, and bulking up past what your body naturally can handle, in most cases, especially someone like LeBron, would do far more bad than good.

HGH is in all likelihood used commonly in the NBA...but people have to realize that it doesn't make you big, like you said. It makes you leaner if anything. But it does still physically distort your body.

I know I sounded like a disagree with what you are saying...but I agree with youfar more than I disagree.

Yeah, all I'm really saying is that the thread isn't dumb if it deals with a real topic like PED use in pro sports. It's a huge problem and I'm really surprised that people STILL want it to just go away ...

ink
05-21-2009, 01:08 AM
Again, HGH is used so much in sports, why the heck do people think it is some huge stretch to think NBA players are doing it?

100% agreed.

Randy West
05-21-2009, 01:13 AM
no i've never seen anyone bigger than lebron..and don't pretend like you have either...the biggest dude i've ever seen went to my school. he was 6'8" and probably weighed as much as lebron...only problem was he is fat

I love it when people tell me who and what I have seen

And yes I played b ball in high school we had two players over 6'8" on our team.

Grow up get into the real world hang around with some professional athletes.......they are big guys.

I mean the biggest guy you have seen is 6'8" so there is no way there is anyone bigger or what??

You totally missed the kid that matured or seemed to mature faster than the other kids part......but then again maybe you are not mature enough to notice such things yourself. Maybe you live in an isolated area heck I don't know.........wait maybe you use hgh.....see I can throw that around as easy as the next guy......does not make it anymore true

Randy West
05-21-2009, 01:14 AM
Again, HGH is used so much in sports, why the heck do people think it is some huge stretch to think NBA players are doing it?

There have been NBA players busted for steroid use before so it is not like it has not happened

BTownTeamsRKing
05-21-2009, 01:15 AM
100% agreed.

Especially when u consider the fact that many of these guys were playing baseball and football in high school. Both sports where HGH is sadly normal.

Im torn on this. I want to know, but then Id rather not know. I want the game to be clean, but I think it isnt, but i want to believe it is. touchy subject

BTownTeamsRKing
05-21-2009, 01:17 AM
There have been NBA players busted for steroid use before so it is not like it has not happened

who? chris anderson?

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-21-2009, 01:18 AM
Especially when u consider the fact that many of these guys were playing baseball and football in high school. Both sports where HGH is sadly normal.

Im torn on this. I want to know, but then Id rather not know. I want the game to be clean, but I think it isnt, but i want to believe it is. touchy subject

Same here. I dont want to think a great player like Lebron or D Howard would be cheating. I want my son to look at these athletes with admiration and respect. Not think of them as people who cheat the system to get an unfair advantage. But it would be irresponsible to believe that this drug problem is not prevalent in the NBA

montazingmvp
05-21-2009, 01:20 AM
I love it when people tell me who and what I have seen

And yes I played b ball in high school we had two players over 6'8" on our team.

Grow up get into the real world hang around with some professional athletes.......they are big guys.

I mean the biggest guy you have seen is 6'8" so there is no way there is anyone bigger or what??

You totally missed the kid that matured or seemed to mature faster than the other kids part......but then again maybe you are not mature enough to notice such things yourself. Maybe you live in an isolated area heck I don't know.........wait maybe you use hgh.....see I can throw that around as easy as the next guy......does not make it anymore true

i shouldn't make assumptions, but i would be very surprised if you've ever played against somebody with the size and agility of lebron... thats my point

BTownTeamsRKing
05-21-2009, 01:23 AM
Same here. I dont want to think a great player like Lebron or D Howard would be cheating. I want my son to look at these athletes with admiration and respect. Not think of them as people who cheat the system to get an unfair advantage. But it would be irresponsible to believe that this drug problem is not prevalent in the NBA

yup, u got it.

Randy West
05-21-2009, 01:23 AM
who? chris anderson?

The NBA suspends players five games for an initial infraction. Only three players - Don MacLean, Matt Geiger, Soumaila Samake - are known to have tested positive.


Anderson tested positive for meth......it took a whole 45 seconds to google that info

Randy West
05-21-2009, 01:26 AM
i shouldn't make assumptions, but i would be very surprised if you've ever played against somebody with the size and agility of lebron... thats my point

You don't have to play basketball against a guy to know he is your same age and bigger and stronger than you are. There was a seventeen year old on my legion baseball team that could buy alcohol and not even have to show his ID.

My point being Lebron matured or should I say grew up faster than most of the other guys........heck they used to say he was a grown man playing against boys in his HS games all the time

BTownTeamsRKing
05-21-2009, 01:32 AM
The NBA suspends players five games for an initial infraction. Only three players - Don MacLean, Matt Geiger, Soumaila Samake - are known to have tested positive.


Anderson tested positive for meth......it took a whole 45 seconds to google that info

o the superstars. never heard of 2 of them and geiger sucked lol

Randy West
05-21-2009, 01:39 AM
yeah the drugs obviously didn't help them reach the pinnacle of the sport

Maybe they had a couple nice contracts and made some dough though

Lost Art
05-21-2009, 01:43 AM
Lol wow what a stupid thread. Lebron has been huge ever since his HS days, hes not taking any sort of HGH...maybe some weed, but not HGH.

........and roids and HGH weren't around when Lebron was in HS????? I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few NBA players that use HGH.........and Lebron and D-Howard would be on the top of my list

KeithLBC
05-21-2009, 01:52 AM
........and roids and HGH weren't around when Lebron was in HS????? I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few NBA players that use HGH.........and Lebron and D-Howard would be on the top of my list

Bynum and Oden are pretty ripped too ;)

rabzouz 96
05-21-2009, 06:22 AM
lulz, u guys gotta be trippin, the whole nba is on juice, not just bron and dwight, if u wanna compete on a higher level in hs/college its almost mandatory to take roids, leave alone becoming a pro.
now i dunno if its really hgh, but there are enough androgene or anabolic substances to take.


Same here. I dont want to think a great player like Lebron or D Howard would be cheating. I want my son to look at these athletes with admiration and respect. Not think of them as people who cheat the system to get an unfair advantage. But it would be irresponsible to believe that this drug problem is not prevalent in the NBA


haha sorry to say that, but thats how life works, not just in pro sports...

lakers4sho
05-21-2009, 10:13 AM
It's funny how some people just choose to deny it without even looking deeper into it.

All I can say is, hey, anything's possible.

Randy West
05-21-2009, 11:04 AM
Well roids and hgh are two very different things.

I went to high school in the 80's and yes there were some kids that did steroids........hgh on the other hand is much harder to get and costs 10-20 times what steroids would cost you if you could get it at all. Before synthetic was introduced hgh was extracted from the pituitary gland of cadavers.........that's how rare it was.

Anything is possible though so you can't really rule anything out........somethings are more of a long shot than others though

Maximis
05-21-2009, 12:50 PM
this is a stupid thread. Are you kidding? Lebron was a man-child when he was 9. The guy has grown up before our eyes, and he just proves what can happen with hard work and a little inheritance luck. Plus, HGH in the game of basketball just doesnt work, unless your a Ben Wallace type player. Bottom line is that Lebron is going to be the best and dont try to bring baseballs garbage to the NBA.

MaHaRaJaH
05-21-2009, 01:13 PM
What I'm contrasting it with is the huge body changes you might have seen with steroids. HGH creates more subtle changes than they did. Of course, we've all seen Barry Bonds' head size quadruple, but there are other athletes using and it's not as detectable to the eye.

And there are studies on both sides saying yes and no about enhanced performance. The fact is, athletes are getting results, and we know they are taking. That was proven by the Mitchell report and the BALCO investigations, which, btw, were not all done on baseball players. It's too late to pretend that players aren't using PEDs, and that they're not benefitting. That ship has already sailed.

I believe studying has been banned. But to say PEDs are actually "helping" is hard to prove itself, especially in baseball. Everything changes because of how the pitcher pitches, he cannot throw the same pitch at the same location with the same velocity every single time to conclude if there really is a difference in power. Same goes for NBA, it's dynamic a lot of in-game factors affect how your mind, your perception and your hands operate in those 45 seconds +. Which brings us back to Lebron, does he have those necessary traits within himself to preform the way he does, yeah. Were HGH used throughout his career? I'm going to have to say probably, (I'm assuming the media followed him around a lot saying "Next Jordan") Else, what happens if he fails those expectations? Colleges look for the "biggest, fastest, strongest" Kids out there, what happens if you're not quite that?

USMCLaker
05-21-2009, 01:47 PM
Does anybody know if Creatine is a legal substance in the NBA?

MaHaRaJaH
05-21-2009, 01:57 PM
Does anybody know if Creatine is a legal substance in the NBA?

Whether it is or isn't not as effective.

USMCLaker
05-21-2009, 02:02 PM
Whether it is or isn't not as effective.

I never tried HGH but I have used Creatine with the right complimentary supplements it's pretty effective.

rabzouz 96
05-21-2009, 02:26 PM
Does anybody know if Creatine is a legal substance in the NBA?
ahahaha are you serious? creatine is in a whole other league than hgh or roids or anything like that, u can supp creatine on a daily basis, nothing wrong with that and it wont get you much of a result in nba terms anyway, its just to get over a plateau in ur muscular development, its just an amino acid thats also in red meat and stuff.

rabzouz 96
05-21-2009, 02:37 PM
this is a stupid thread. Are you kidding? Lebron was a man-child when he was 9. The guy has grown up before our eyes, and he just proves what can happen with hard work and a little inheritance luck. Plus, HGH in the game of basketball just doesnt work, unless your a Ben Wallace type player. Bottom line is that Lebron is going to be the best and dont try to bring baseballs garbage to the NBA.
no, its a naive thread, the only stupid thing is your answer. why would hgh or other substances not work in the nba? i dont think you know what youre talking about. they make you stronger, faster, better depending on the kind of substances u take, there are not only anabolic substances, hell even amphetamines can make u a better player, do u really think the game became drastically faster because the human race evolved within the last 10 or 20 years? its the same in soccer or any other pro sport as well.


Well roids and hgh are two very different things.

I went to high school in the 80's and yes there were some kids that did steroids........hgh on the other hand is much harder to get and costs 10-20 times what steroids would cost you if you could get it at all. Before synthetic was introduced hgh was extracted from the pituitary gland of cadavers.........that's how rare it was.

Anything is possible though so you can't really rule anything out........somethings are more of a long shot than others though
i dunno how it was in the 8os but getting hgh is no problem at all, just like any other substance from testo to halotestin, these guys have the chance to make millions of dollars if theyre athletic and good enough, dont u think they would risk their everything for that, especially when they come from a poor background?

Utahjazzfan18
05-21-2009, 03:05 PM
It might be stupid and unfair to just assume Lebron and Dwight are taking PED's but it's not stupid at all to think the NBA players need to receive alot better testing for this stuff. Lebron really could be just that gifted and I hope he is but it's dumb to just overlook testing because you're afraid of what the results might hold.

I've seen too much of this in baseball and I think the NBA needs to realize that PED's are a serious problem in just about any pro sport today.

Sly Guy
05-21-2009, 04:18 PM
so every great dunker....vince, iggy, josh smith, kobe, nique etc etc etc...i no i missed a lot of guys but thats not the point....take something cuz they can jump high?!?! not an intelligent thing to say

I'd say it's a fair claim to make. When contracts worth 10's of millions of dollars [even 100's of millions] are at stake over rules that are generally not enforced, who wouldn't turn down a little PED?

If PEDs in basketball and sports in general are left unchecked, we will see another peak in the maximum performance an athlete can achieve. Except instead of being muscular, it'll be the fact that the human skeletal system or the internal organs, cannot support any more force or the altered chemistry on it caused by overly jacked muscles or PEDs.

We're already seeing signs of performance enhancing drugs affecting athletes. How many times in years past have strange 'heart anomolies' been the end of a career? Look no further than the role stimulants are playing in hockey. 15 years ago, you'd never have heard of a played being taken to the hospital because of a heart attack he suffered on the bench. Are we expected to believe that the average number of heart attacks has increased among the general population by a factor of over 100% in that time? Or look at the case of the Raptor's Nathan Jawai. Was not cleared to play and may not have had a career at all because of an 'enlarged heart'. You think that that condition would have been undiagnosed by the time of his drafting? Or that the symptoms of any trouble of that would have hampered his on-court performance in the years before the NBA?

There's too much money, and too lax rules for PEDs not to be involved in all major sports And it's becoming more and more evident that the athletes are tinkering with their body chemistry to achieve better results.

USMCLaker
05-21-2009, 04:55 PM
ahahaha are you serious? creatine is in a whole other league than hgh or roids or anything like that, u can supp creatine on a daily basis, nothing wrong with that and it wont get you much of a result in nba terms anyway, its just to get over a plateau in ur muscular development, its just an amino acid thats also in red meat and stuff.

So whats your point?

I have used and it was effective that's all I said, what's the dumb childish ahahaha all about.

Yes it is found it other sources of protein but not enough to give you the results that you want which you can get at the concentrated levels from the straight powder form of creatine.

If an athlete wants to get an edge without putting millions of dollars at risk it's a good legal alternative. Grant it maybe not as effective as roids but that does not mean that it is not effective at all.

Again, I've used it and was able to curl the largest dumbbells in the gym and was working out the big boys, I also ran the Marine Corp 3 mile PFT at 18:50 and finished in the top ten of 250 infantry marines so yes I would say it's effective.

That's why I was hoping that one of the knowledgeable PSD Posters could clarify whether it was a banned substance or not, I thought that I heard that it was banned in MLB but I'm not sure.

Quote:

Creatine is one among the most accepted and commonly used sports supplement available in the market today. Many athletes who want to remain legal and gain energy and muscle bulk use Creatine. Intake of creatine supplements can elevate natural creatine levels if needed for any reason.

http://www.articlesbase.com/supplements-and-vitamins-articles/creatine-your-performance-enhancer-213529.html

Randy West
05-21-2009, 06:00 PM
no, its a naive thread, the only stupid thing is your answer. why would hgh or other substances not work in the nba? i dont think you know what youre talking about. they make you stronger, faster, better depending on the kind of substances u take, there are not only anabolic substances, hell even amphetamines can make u a better player, do u really think the game became drastically faster because the human race evolved within the last 10 or 20 years? its the same in soccer or any other pro sport as well.


i dunno how it was in the 8os but getting hgh is no problem at all, just like any other substance from testo to halotestin, these guys have the chance to make millions of dollars if theyre athletic and good enough, dont u think they would risk their everything for that, especially when they come from a poor background?

Well just how easy is getting actual hgh then??

I mean I know you can get a Dr perscription for hgh and/or testosterone therapy........I also know from a friend that medical insurance does not cover it and that hgh is still expensive.......maybe not to a pro athlete but to a high school kid steroids would be the cheaper alternative.

HGH back in the 80's was rare and like I had said earlier extracted from cadevers......I think Lyle Alzado was one of the first pro athletes I had ever heard of using it. I have not been around HS for twenty years but I have been around guys that have done roids and now as I get into my forties I know guys that do the testosterone therapy monitored by a Dr........the synthetic hgh is still too expensive

Spridge 76
05-21-2009, 07:16 PM
In this day and age, does anyone really care what they are taking?

Surely the point should be to be able to see the best athletes in the best possible shape. If they simply eat healthy and train alot, take supplements to enhance their physical well being, or go the whole way and take new drugs to go to the extreme ... why would we care???
Let's see the best conditioned athletes, all able to take anything they like and then we wouldn't need to be suspicious of any of them?

I'm sick to the back teeth of some scientist in a lab somewhere going through his list and saying coffee is fine, steroids are not, paracetemol is fine, neurofen is not, US Vicks is fine, European Vicks is not fine!

SlaterRaps
05-21-2009, 07:39 PM
Lol wow what a stupid thread. Lebron has been huge ever since his HS days, hes not taking any sort of HGH...maybe some weed, but not HGH.

he has not been big since HS
look at the pictures he was not big not even that close to what he is now

Sly Guy
05-21-2009, 08:36 PM
In this day and age, does anyone really care what they are taking?

Surely the point should be to be able to see the best athletes in the best possible shape. If they simply eat healthy and train alot, take supplements to enhance their physical well being, or go the whole way and take new drugs to go to the extreme ... why would we care???
Let's see the best conditioned athletes, all able to take anything they like and then we wouldn't need to be suspicious of any of them?

I'm sick to the back teeth of some scientist in a lab somewhere going through his list and saying coffee is fine, steroids are not, paracetemol is fine, neurofen is not, US Vicks is fine, European Vicks is not fine!

I kinda agree with you on this. Because even eating food is the chemical reaction of breaking down sugars, proteins, fats, vitamins and minerals to alter your body's chemistry from hungry to well fed.

But, taking artificial substances, or larger quantities of naturally occurring substances can be dangerous to the user. So if an athlete wants to tear his body apart for a 100 million dollar contract, that's his business.

The league would argue that they are a positive influence on their fans. But by putting their own players in jeopardy or letting them do it to themselves is not a way to create role models for the family show that is the NBA. As adults, we could give a ***** less, but not everyone has as well a developed idea of what is and is not an acceptable trade off between their body and money, or the difference between the money and the love of the game.

montazingmvp
05-21-2009, 09:06 PM
I believe studying has been banned. But to say PEDs are actually "helping" is hard to prove itself, especially in baseball. Everything changes because of how the pitcher pitches, he cannot throw the same pitch at the same location with the same velocity every single time to conclude if there really is a difference in power. Same goes for NBA, it's dynamic a lot of in-game factors affect how your mind, your perception and your hands operate in those 45 seconds +. Which brings us back to Lebron, does he have those necessary traits within himself to preform the way he does, yeah. Were HGH used throughout his career? I'm going to have to say probably, (I'm assuming the media followed him around a lot saying "Next Jordan") Else, what happens if he fails those expectations? Colleges look for the "biggest, fastest, strongest" Kids out there, what happens if you're not quite that?

its not that hard to prove that performance enhancers were improving players in baseballl...homeruns had never been hit at a higher rate, and all of a sudden when they get serious about with all the tests etc, homeruns are once again down..

proof is there

montazingmvp
05-21-2009, 09:09 PM
no, its a naive thread, the only stupid thing is your answer. why would hgh or other substances not work in the nba? i dont think you know what youre talking about. they make you stronger, faster, better depending on the kind of substances u take, there are not only anabolic substances, hell even amphetamines can make u a better player, do u really think the game became drastically faster because the human race evolved within the last 10 or 20 years? its the same in soccer or any other pro sport as well.


i dunno how it was in the 8os but getting hgh is no problem at all, just like any other substance from testo to halotestin, these guys have the chance to make millions of dollars if theyre athletic and good enough, dont u think they would risk their everything for that, especially when they come from a poor background?

not so sure hgh is prevalent in soccer...though im sure there are players using it...

rhaas74
05-21-2009, 09:25 PM
I find this amuzing. When I was in high school brought in a trainer to work on our football team. His sole purpose was to make us more explosive. For the lineman to get that first step off the ball and the WRs to be able to jump over the DBs. This trainer also worked out LeBron his first year in the league. We couldn't even finish the workout he was doing on game days. I remember even after doing it for a month I was still sore the next day. And guess what, everyone drastically improved from this routine.

LeBron works out everyday, on top of practice and extra shooting afterwards. Plain and simple, LeBron works out for hours and hours each day. Did he have all that time back when he was in HS? So is it really that hard to believe that over 6 years in the league, working out that much, that he has put on some muscle?

I agree that HGH is more than likely in use in the NBA. What I don't like is the fact that people are throwing out LeBron and Dwights name without any source other than their own pure speculation.

rabzouz 96
05-21-2009, 09:38 PM
So whats your point?

I have used and it was effective that's all I said, what's the dumb childish ahahaha all about.

Yes it is found it other sources of protein but not enough to give you the results that you want which you can get at the concentrated levels from the straight powder form of creatine.

If an athlete wants to get an edge without putting millions of dollars at risk it's a good legal alternative. Grant it maybe not as effective as roids but that does not mean that it is not effective at all.

Again, I've used it and was able to curl the largest dumbbells in the gym and was working out the big boys, I also ran the Marine Corp 3 mile PFT at 18:50 and finished in the top ten of 250 infantry marines so yes I would say it's effective.

That's why I was hoping that one of the knowledgeable PSD Posters could clarify whether it was a banned substance or not, I thought that I heard that it was banned in MLB but I'm not sure.

Quote:

Creatine is one among the most accepted and commonly used sports supplement available in the market today. Many athletes who want to remain legal and gain energy and muscle bulk use Creatine. Intake of creatine supplements can elevate natural creatine levels if needed for any reason.

http://www.articlesbase.com/supplements-and-vitamins-articles/creatine-your-performance-enhancer-213529.html

theres no point, and i didnt mean to sound childish or to deride you, i just found your post funny because it was so innocent, nothing bad about that, legit question.

the results from creatine vary from person to person, but as u said creatine wont bring u anywhere near the other substances and its certainly no healthier option to them f u think about taking something to make it to a league or to get a new contract.

and i think u woulda done great without the creatine as well in sprinting or weightlifting, it certainly helps but not drastically, it cant do no wonders, the thing is that the industry did a pretty good job of producing this image in all our heads, its one of the most famous supps.

from what ive read creatine is allowed in the nba, i dont know how theyd wanna test it anyways, you could eat a shotload of steaks and have the same creatine results.

sorry if i sounded rude.

rabzouz 96
05-21-2009, 09:57 PM
Well just how easy is getting actual hgh then??

I mean I know you can get a Dr perscription for hgh and/or testosterone therapy........I also know from a friend that medical insurance does not cover it and that hgh is still expensive.......maybe not to a pro athlete but to a high school kid steroids would be the cheaper alternative.

HGH back in the 80's was rare and like I had said earlier extracted from cadevers......I think Lyle Alzado was one of the first pro athletes I had ever heard of using it. I have not been around HS for twenty years but I have been around guys that have done roids and now as I get into my forties I know guys that do the testosterone therapy monitored by a Dr........the synthetic hgh is still too expensive
pretty easy, i dont know why you think it would be that hard to get, u can get everything u want on the streets,of course if u do a gene therapy monitored by a doctor, it will be expensive, but theres enough cheaper one on the market, and enough stuff from asia or with bad quality that wasnt cooled thoroughly and stuff but still has a good price. you can get a good IE for about 3-4 euros. or 500 i.u. jintropin for 1000 euros, dunno maybe even better prices. and id think that there are enough trainers, agents, and other people who see potential in the kids and invest in them in form of buying them some hgh and hope that their investment pays dividends in the future and they wont be forgotten by the pros/turning pros, or whatever.
but i dunno why everybodys so stuck on hgh here, theres enough other stuff to boost your performance, everything that gives you an advantage over others in order to seal a big deal will be taken by someone about 60 % in the gyms take something and dont even have according results to show for it, why would pros not do it if normal people do?

rabzouz 96
05-21-2009, 10:08 PM
I find this amuzing. When I was in high school brought in a trainer to work on our football team. His sole purpose was to make us more explosive. For the lineman to get that first step off the ball and the WRs to be able to jump over the DBs. This trainer also worked out LeBron his first year in the league. We couldn't even finish the workout he was doing on game days. I remember even after doing it for a month I was still sore the next day. And guess what, everyone drastically improved from this routine.

LeBron works out everyday, on top of practice and extra shooting afterwards. Plain and simple, LeBron works out for hours and hours each day. Did he have all that time back when he was in HS? So is it really that hard to believe that over 6 years in the league, working out that much, that he has put on some muscle?

I agree that HGH is more than likely in use in the NBA. What I don't like is the fact that people are throwing out LeBron and Dwights name without any source other than their own pure speculation.

yeah but your cns will get pretty exhausted if u train for hours everyday, so the results wont stay up long, unless u take somehting to recover faster...
what many people dont get is the indirect results from roids, like being able to train harder and more frequently

I kinda agree with you on this. Because even eating food is the chemical reaction of breaking down sugars, proteins, fats, vitamins and minerals to alter your body's chemistry from hungry to well fed.

But, taking artificial substances, or larger quantities of naturally occurring substances can be dangerous to the user. So if an athlete wants to tear his body apart for a 100 million dollar contract, that's his business.

The league would argue that they are a positive influence on their fans. But by putting their own players in jeopardy or letting them do it to themselves is not a way to create role models for the family show that is the NBA. As adults, we could give a ***** less, but not everyone has as well a developed idea of what is and is not an acceptable trade off between their body and money, or the difference between the money and the love of the game.

the nba doesnt care about how good/bad the children are influenced its about how interesting and fascinating the sport can get in order to get more attendance, and that comes with performance boosters, so the tests arent that hard.
taking therse sports guys as role models is never good, farseen from roids or stuff because off the court most of them just arent role models, they have gambling addictions, drug addiction, dui, party all around, have affairs, etc, its just stuff that people ignore, like roids too, no difference there, or do people really care about roids in wrestling, baseball, football or anywhere else where its an open secret that the guys juice. nah people dont care about. look whos gouvernor in california, its arnold who juiced a whole lot himself, or take movie stars like sylvester stallone, who cares about their roid usage? nobody really does.

soundjunkies2
05-21-2009, 10:19 PM
lol stupid thread, lebron is just gifted.

Ironman5219
05-21-2009, 10:56 PM
I'll admit i'm no doctor or expert, but common sense says there has to be some sort of drug testing going on if he is playing in the Olympics, and professional basketball. Don't forget he is also a very hard worker, and has tremendous natrual ability. Until a test proves otherwise I believe he is a good as he delivers.

MagicDojo
05-21-2009, 11:06 PM
word

ink
05-21-2009, 11:23 PM
I'll admit i'm no doctor or expert, but common sense says there has to be some sort of drug testing going on if he is playing in the Olympics, and professional basketball. Don't forget he is also a very hard worker, and has tremendous natrual ability. Until a test proves otherwise I believe he is a good as he delivers.

There is no HGH testing in the NBA.

HGH disappears from the system very quickly and is only detectable with blood tests if administered in time. Even though there is clear evidence that athletes have cheated using HGH and "the clear", no athlete has been caught with drug tests. Obviously the tests aren't good enough yet, because the evidence is clearly there that they are using.

Barry Bonds, Marion Jones, Jason Giambi, Roger Clemens and Bill Romanowski were all implicated because of testimony from coaches and chemists. They did not fail drug tests. So obviously, we know they're using even though the tests aren't up to speed yet.

It is easy to work around the testing procedures.

Final point: Lebron shouldn't be singled out because HGH use is widespread.

Kings Faithful
05-21-2009, 11:23 PM
these guys are in the NBA for a reason. Just because someone is big and strong is no reason to accuse of steroids. you can start accusing when you see a 40 pound gain in muscle in about a year like Bonds...These guys have been huge for most of their lives.

IndiansFan337
05-21-2009, 11:53 PM
There is no HGH testing in the NBA.

HGH disappears from the system very quickly and is only detectable with blood tests if administered in time. Even though there is clear evidence that athletes have cheated using HGH and "the clear", no athlete has been caught with drug tests. Obviously the tests aren't good enough yet, because the evidence is clearly there that they are using.

Barry Bonds, Marion Jones, Jason Giambi, Roger Clemens and Bill Romanowski were all implicated because of testimony from coaches and chemists. They did not fail drug tests. So obviously, we know they're using even though the tests aren't up to speed yet.

It is easy to work around the testing procedures.

Final point: Lebron shouldn't be singled out because HGH use is widespread.
I believe that there are blood tests in the Olympics though. I believe that is how they have disqualified numerous runners over the years for illegal activities.

ink
05-21-2009, 11:55 PM
I believe that there are blood tests in the Olympics though. I believe that is how they have disqualified numerous runners over the years for illegal activities.

Yes, there are, but like I said, HGH disappears very quickly from the system so the tests don't catch the users.

I don't believe for a second -- for example -- that Usain Bolt is clean. Not for a second.

AntiG
05-21-2009, 11:57 PM
You guys actually think it's possible to propel yourself 40"+ in the air without some kind of help? let alone weight 260lbs and do it? Drugs are in basketball too.

Not saying LeBron isn't using... but I had a 44 inch vertical in HS at 210 lbs and never used anything... some people are simply really good jumpers.

ink
05-21-2009, 11:58 PM
I had a 44 inch vertical in HS at 210 lbs and never used anything... some people are simply really good jumpers.

And Roger Clemens is a "competitor". :cool:

He won't admit it either.

rhaas74
05-22-2009, 12:33 AM
And Roger Clemens is a "competitor". :cool:

He won't admit it either.

So anyone that can jump is on HGH? If that is your logic then the whole entire NBA and NCAA is on HGH.

ink
05-22-2009, 01:47 AM
So anyone that can jump is on HGH?

Is that what I said?? Please show me the post.


If that is your logic then the whole entire NBA and NCAA is on HGH.

Before you decide what my logic is, maybe you should look at the logic of your own statement. Please don't start throwing "logic" around. Who, other than you included the NCAA?? And does everybody in the NCAA jump as high as Lebron?? Are his abilities that commonplace?? I don't think so.

The main point I've made throughout this thread is that there's no excuse for delusion about professional athletes anymore. Not with this amount of money up for grabs. The drugs are there, the athletes are becoming more remarkable all the time. It's foolish to be blind when all around us is clear evidence that cheating is going on. Let's educate ourselves instead of being naive.

MaHaRaJaH
05-22-2009, 03:12 AM
its not that hard to prove that performance enhancers were improving players in baseballl...homeruns had never been hit at a higher rate, and all of a sudden when they get serious about with all the tests etc, homeruns are once again down..

proof is there

Correlation does NOT mean Causation ;)

MaHaRaJaH
05-22-2009, 03:18 AM
I believe that there are blood tests in the Olympics though. I believe that is how they have disqualified numerous runners over the years for illegal activities.

Yea but they are *really* taking Non-traditional vitamins/herbs lol. Ask Carl Lewis

MaHaRaJaH
05-22-2009, 03:21 AM
these guys are in the NBA for a reason. Just because someone is big and strong is no reason to accuse of steroids. you can start accusing when you see a 40 pound gain in muscle in about a year like Bonds...These guys have been huge for most of their lives.

The point is, people do it and you'd be lying to yourself to say it does NOT exist in the NBA.

azkarraga
05-22-2009, 04:04 AM
if saying he's done something as a way to praise him, it's ok. but if you're accusing him, then stop it. or probe it.

rhaas74
05-22-2009, 05:26 AM
Is that what I said?? Please show me the post.



Before you decide what my logic is, maybe you should look at the logic of your own statement. Please don't start throwing "logic" around. Who, other than you included the NCAA?? And does everybody in the NCAA jump as high as Lebron?? Are his abilities that commonplace?? I don't think so.

The main point I've made throughout this thread is that there's no excuse for delusion about professional athletes anymore. Not with this amount of money up for grabs. The drugs are there, the athletes are becoming more remarkable all the time. It's foolish to be blind when all around us is clear evidence that cheating is going on. Let's educate ourselves instead of being naive.

In the post I previously quoted you you compared people who are "simply really good jumpers" to Roger Clemens being a competitor. So in my mind you are linking the two. So by my "logic" you are saying people who are "simply really good jumpers" are like Roger Clemens. That is how I got on to the NCAA, because guess what, it is filled with "simply really good jumpers" too.

I never said that HGH wasn't in basketball, it is the fact that everyone is jumping and pointing out a few guys who they are SPECULATING take it. If you want to make it the NBA as a whole then fine, but when you start mentioning elite players because they are simply too good to be true, it begins to cross the line. So no I am not turning a blind eye, and I mentioned that before.

lakers4sho
05-22-2009, 10:28 AM
this is a stupid thread. Are you kidding? Lebron was a man-child when he was 9. The guy has grown up before our eyes, and he just proves what can happen with hard work and a little inheritance luck. Plus, HGH in the game of basketball just doesnt work, unless your a Ben Wallace type player. Bottom line is that Lebron is going to be the best and dont try to bring baseballs garbage to the NBA.

That's the funny part. I doubt you'll see regular nine year olds in the park as huge as LeBron.

Or heck, even high schoolers.

And we all know it doesn't affect the skill, but it gives you SPEED and STRENGTH....yeah

ink
05-22-2009, 10:45 AM
In the post I previously quoted you you compared people who are "simply really good jumpers" to Roger Clemens being a competitor. So in my mind you are linking the two. So by my "logic" you are saying people who are "simply really good jumpers" are like Roger Clemens. That is how I got on to the NCAA, because guess what, it is filled with "simply really good jumpers" too.

I never said that HGH wasn't in basketball, it is the fact that everyone is jumping and pointing out a few guys who they are SPECULATING take it. If you want to make it the NBA as a whole then fine, but when you start mentioning elite players because they are simply too good to be true, it begins to cross the line. So no I am not turning a blind eye, and I mentioned that before.

I mentioned Clemens because people invent all kinds of excuses for players or have euphemisms to mask what the player is really doing. We should know better by now. I can still enjoy any sport I watch, but I do so with some healthy skepticism about how the athletes got the way they got.

rabzouz 96
05-22-2009, 10:50 AM
these guys are in the NBA for a reason. Just because someone is big and strong is no reason to accuse of steroids. you can start accusing when you see a 40 pound gain in muscle in about a year like Bonds...These guys have been huge for most of their lives.
on the first part youre right, these guys are in the nba for a reason, and theyd be pretty good players and/or athletes without roids too, but roids give you still an advantage when it comes to competing with other superior athletes and might give u the little advantage that u need to make the 10 mil $ contract, or even to get drafted at a certain position. they have good genetics but enhance em with roids, and that goes for all players not just for superstars.
but do u even know how steroids work? there are not only steroids to gain muscle mass, there are so many different things some for gaining mass, some for losing fat some to get stronger, or to get quicker, and even if u take the anabolic ones, the gained muscle mass depends heavily on ur diet and training
an a nba schedule isnt easy so they wont gain that much.



I believe that there are blood tests in the Olympics though. I believe that is how they have disqualified numerous runners over the years for illegal activities.
i dont hold too much into the tests, and even if ud look at them, it just shows that they arent on roids right now, but it wont show what they did a year or something like that ago.



Not saying LeBron isn't using... but I had a 44 inch vertical in HS at 210 lbs and never used anything... some people are simply really good jumpers.
yeah as i said, these guys are athletic and can play and jump, the roids just give em a litlle extra quickness, an extra cm while jumping or another little edge over others.

DJ CHACH
05-22-2009, 11:37 AM
guys HGH was voted by the players to not be tested for....of couse lebron and dwight are on it.....probably my man nate robinson is on it too.....please, lebron and dwight dont even look natural...