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View Full Version : Lebron and Durant: Magic/Bird all over again?



sp1derm00
05-19-2009, 12:47 PM
Durant's improvement from his rookie year to sophmore year is pretty scary.

Durant is actually on pace to become better than Carmelo Anthony by next season if he improves just slightly, and Melo is already arguably the 2nd or 3rd best SF in the league behind Lebron.

Does anyone think that Durant could possibly contend with Lebron in a year or two as the best SF in the league? He's got all the tools to be better offensively with his length and shot. He's a good finisher, and his long arms allow him to play good defense.

I would view a comparison between Lebron and Durant kinda like Bird and Magic. Magic was the better all-around player and the best playmaker in the game. Lebron is similar to Magic, but less of a playmaker and more of a scorer. He also plays superior defense to Magic.

Durant on the other hand, is a solid shooter like Bird. He's a shooter/rebounder.

what54!?
05-19-2009, 12:52 PM
no because guess what: in a year or two lebron will be better too. duarnt has the skills to be the second best sf and the game, but its gonna be clear without a doubt lebron will be the best SF in the game. In two years he may be without a doubt the best player in the game.

sp1derm00
05-19-2009, 01:01 PM
no because guess what: in a year or two lebron will be better too. duarnt has the skills to be the second best sf and the game, but its gonna be clear without a doubt lebron will be the best SF in the game. In two years he may be without a doubt the best player in the game.

Yeah, Lebron might be better in a year or two... but so will Durant, and Durant at this point, has more room to grow than Lebron. We all know what Lebron is capable of and what kind of player he is. What we don't know if Durant's peak.

what54!?
05-19-2009, 01:04 PM
Yeah, Lebron might be better in a year or two... but so will Durant, and Durant at this point, has more room to grow than Lebron. We all know what Lebron is capable of and what kind of player he is. What we don't know if Durant's peak.I'm high on durant too he hasn't even come close to his potential but lebron is just unhuman when it comes to basketball.

IBleedPurple
05-19-2009, 01:12 PM
For Durant to be as good as Melo, he will have to bulk up his toothpick frame.

He is a dynamic scorer though.

The thing that made Magic/Bird interesting, was that they both won. Durant has not won to this point. Not to mention, they are on completely different levels of play. You have the best player in the NBA, and the 20th-30th best. Not quite the same.

I'd say Melo & Wade are a more likely comparison. Jordan was the best back then, while Magic/Bird were #2 & #3, and they all came in the league around the same time. Same thing here, while LeBron is clearly the best, the next two that came into the league at the same time are Melo and Wade.

philab
05-19-2009, 01:13 PM
Yeah, Lebron might be better in a year or two... but so will Durant, and Durant at this point, has more room to grow than Lebron. We all know what Lebron is capable of and what kind of player he is. What we don't know if Durant's peak.

How do we know LeBron's peak but we don't know Durant's?

LeBron's done nothing but improve since he entered the league. Sure, you could argue that he stagnated a year or two, but he's certainly trending upward. And the improvements he made from last year to this were enormous.

I'm excited about Durant too, but let's not start talking crazy. Durant never has, at any point in his development, been the prospect LeBron was. There never would have been an Oden/Durant debate had he been. Durant does have the potential to be an amazing player; the sky is the limit. Will he be better than LeBron? Possibly -- but he's got some serious work to do.

sp1derm00
05-19-2009, 01:25 PM
How do we know LeBron's peak but we don't know Durant's?

LeBron's done nothing but improve since he entered the league. Sure, you could argue that he stagnated a year or two, but he's certainly trending upward. And the improvements he made from last year to this were enormous.

I'm excited about Durant too, but let's not start talking crazy. Durant never has, at any point in his development, been the prospect LeBron was. There never would have been an Oden/Durant debate had he been. Durant does have the potential to be an amazing player; the sky is the limit. Will he be better than LeBron? Possibly -- but he's got some serious work to do.

We have an idea of Lebron's peak. He's probably playing close to it right now (if he's not... we're in trouble). Durant on the other hand, has been in this league 2 years and has improved drastically. Not only in PPG, but in FG%, and 3FG% as well. It's not like all he can do is shoot either, he's a great finisher and he's got actual post moves.

If he bulks up a bit, we don't know what he's capable of with a shot as nice as his and his offensive skills.

Ju-23
05-19-2009, 01:33 PM
This Comparison Will Never get To Bird/Magic Status Cuz Lebron Will Go Down As One Of The Greatest Players To Ever Play The Game...While Durant Will Only Be A Good Player At Best

sp1derm00
05-19-2009, 01:46 PM
This Comparison Will Never get To Bird/Magic Status Cuz Lebron Will Go Down As One Of The Greatest Players To Ever Play The Game...While Durant Will Only Be A Good Player At Best

You know this from Durant's two NBA seasons?

IndyRealist
05-19-2009, 01:57 PM
1) There's no rivialry between Oklahoma City and Cleveland. This is not LA/Boston we're talking about, the rest of the country isn't going to rally behind both these teams.

2) The Magic/Bird rivalry started in college. Lebron didn't go to college, and Durant only went a year. There's nothing brewing between them to begin with.

3) OKC sucks. When Bird came in Boston was a powerhouse. When Magic came in they won a championship. It's hard to have a rivialry when one of the teams doesn't make the playoffs.

4) Cleveland already has rivals. Detriot in their own division, Boston, Orlando, LA, and San Antonio all lay claim to being bigger rivals than OKC.

macc
05-19-2009, 01:59 PM
For Durant to be as good as Melo, he will have to bulk up his toothpick frame.

He is a dynamic scorer though.

The thing that made Magic/Bird interesting, was that they both won. Durant has not won to this point. Not to mention, they are on completely different levels of play. You have the best player in the NBA, and the 20th-30th best. Not quite the same.

I'd say Melo & Wade are a more likely comparison. Jordan was the best back then, while Magic/Bird were #2 & #3, and they all came in the league around the same time. Same thing here, while LeBron is clearly the best, the next two that came into the league at the same time are Melo and Wade.


But can you say Lebron is the best? I'm taking Kobe out of this argument because he's a vet but don't you think Wade should be in the same conversation as Lebron? I mean Wade already has a championship, somthing Lebron doesn't have but yet we've already crowned Lebron better then Wade?

Skill set wise I think Wade is better than Lebron. Lebron has the edge for size and athletic ability. It's def a tough debate reguardless. I just don't think Wade gets enough credit for how good he is. His skill set is really similiar to Kobe's I think.


Going back to the topic I don't think Durant is on LBJ's Level but who knows where Durant will be in a couple years, he gets overshadowed alot because of the city he plays in. I think he's great and has a wide arrange of skill sets. In the end I could see him as a # 2 at best but then again it's still to early in his career to tell.

leftymo
05-19-2009, 02:04 PM
No, b/c those two starting winning titles as soon as they stepped on the court.

Durant hasn't made the playoffs much less the allstar game and Lebron hasn't won anything either.

sp1derm00
05-19-2009, 03:08 PM
Maybe I chose a bad title, I was thinking about the title of the best SF in the league.

I just see similarities between Durants game and Bird's as well as Lebron and Magic's. I could also see Durant possibly contending with Lebron in a year or two as the best SF in the league if Durant keeps improving as much as he did this season. Think 30ppg on 50%FG 42% 3FG%, 7-8rpg, 4apg... all numbers I think Durant can put up eventually.

VCaintdead17
05-19-2009, 03:21 PM
I would take Granger over Durant tbh.

fredv
05-19-2009, 03:22 PM
Just saw on Durant's twitter that he is working on building a stronger body and taking body muscle/weight.

JordansBulls
05-19-2009, 03:29 PM
Lebron and Wade is more like a Bird and Magic comparison. See I wish Wade and the heat when they had Shaq from 2005-2007 was able to play against Lebron and his Cavs team from 2007-2009. That would have been a good battle.

Unruly Fan
05-19-2009, 03:39 PM
Going back to the topic I don't think Durant is on LBJ's Level but who knows where Durant will be in a couple years, he gets overshadowed alot because of the city he plays in. I think he's great and has a wide arrange of skill sets. In the end I could see him as a # 2 at best but then again it's still to early in his career to tell.

Thing is, who even cared about Cleveland before LeBron came in?

ATL_Representa
05-19-2009, 03:44 PM
Lebron is not better than kobe..I find it quite amusing that people say that..How can lebron be better than kobe when kobe is defensively and offensively better than lebron??..In 2 years that might change but at this point theres no question whos better!

Yall are horrible you say the best basketball player is lebron james but whos the better finisher??Whos known for being the best closer in the nba??Its definatly not lebron james and everybody in the nba knows that!!


Lebron has not post up game,His footwork is average at best,He is very inconsistent with the mid-range and 3 point shot..Come on lol you guys need to wake up and face reality..Theres so many flaws in lebrons game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........Tell me 1 in kobe's????

GET YA BASKETBALL IQ UP!

ATL_Representa
05-19-2009, 03:46 PM
"LeBron James is the MVP; Kobe Bryant is the better player.

Both are lockdown defenders, fantastic passers, capable of scoring or facilitating and excellent leaders of their teams. The primary differences lie in each player's individual offensive repertoires, and the key here is the versatility, polish, and completeness of each player's game.

LeBron James is a player with one primary, ultradeveloped offensive skill: his ability to get to the hoop for layups and dunks. At the same time, there are several areas that he has yet to develop. He has improved his 3-point and free throw shooting this year, but even so, both are average at best. He has no midrange jumper, he doesn't use screens effectively, and his post game is suspect. His athleticism and quickness are his primary tools, and his footwork at this point is still fairly rudimentary -- which, in part, explains why he's not better in the post. (Imagine what a player of his size, strength, and athleticism could do in the post with Kobe's footwork!)

Kobe Bryant doesn't have a single dominant skill that far outweighs all others, like LeBron does. Instead, he has the most complete, versatile, and polished skill set in the NBA. Pull-up jumper, leaner, runner, floater, fadeaway, fallaway, midrange, long-range, close-range, pump fake, jab step, up-and-under, dunk, layup, left hand, right hand, face-up, post-up, driving, elevating, strength, savvy, power, finesse, balance, body control, footwork. Bryant can do it all. His footwork, in particular, is unparalleled, and because of it, he is extremely effective in the post, making easy work of smaller players and even taking advantage of larger players without the fundamental skill set to compete with his own.

Simply put, the difference between the two boils down to unprecedented raw athleticism versus unequaled, finely honed skill. "

sp1derm00
05-19-2009, 04:22 PM
Lebron and Wade would have been a good series.. they always come out to compete against one another.

astrosmaniac
05-19-2009, 04:46 PM
Lebron is not better than kobe..I find it quite amusing that people say that..How can lebron be better than kobe when kobe is defensively and offensively better than lebron??..In 2 years that might change but at this point theres no question whos better!

Yall are horrible you say the best basketball player is lebron james but whos the better finisher??Whos known for being the best closer in the nba??Its definatly not lebron james and everybody in the nba knows that!!


Lebron has not post up game,His footwork is average at best,He is very inconsistent with the mid-range and 3 point shot..Come on lol you guys need to wake up and face reality..Theres so many flaws in lebrons game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........Tell me 1 in kobe's????

GET YA BASKETBALL IQ UP!
your kidding right? your saying kobe can post up better than lebron? wow, you are blind. really the only thing kobe has on lebron is 3 point shooting and a slight edge in the mid range game

philab
05-19-2009, 04:56 PM
We have an idea of Lebron's peak. He's probably playing close to it right now (if he's not... we're in trouble). Durant on the other hand, has been in this league 2 years and has improved drastically. Not only in PPG, but in FG%, and 3FG% as well. It's not like all he can do is shoot either, he's a great finisher and he's got actual post moves.

If he bulks up a bit, we don't know what he's capable of with a shot as nice as his and his offensive skills.

How do we have an idea of LeBron's peak? Seriously, he's kept trending upward his entire career and certainly has the tools to go further.


I have no problem with anyone believing that LeBron has hit his peak or is near it. I really would have no problem admitting that myself (although I'm unsure).

It's just a bit crazy to say definitively that someone has hit their peak coming off a year of fantastic improvement at the age of 24. What evidence is there that LeBron is at or near his peak?

Even just common knowledge would lead you to believe he's nowhere near his peak. Typically the shot is the last thing to come for most players. He's got plenty of room for improvement there. And it looks like he may actually be improving.


Again, if there was any evidence that LeBron had hit his peak or was near it, I'd have no problem listening to an argument or even accepting it. There just isn't any evidence.

sp1derm00
05-19-2009, 05:52 PM
How do we have an idea of LeBron's peak? Seriously, he's kept trending upward his entire career and certainly has the tools to go further.


I have no problem with anyone believing that LeBron has hit his peak or is near it. I really would have no problem admitting that myself (although I'm unsure).

It's just a bit crazy to say definitively that someone has hit their peak coming off a year of fantastic improvement at the age of 24. What evidence is there that LeBron is at or near his peak?

Even just common knowledge would lead you to believe he's nowhere near his peak. Typically the shot is the last thing to come for most players. He's got plenty of room for improvement there. And it looks like he may actually be improving.


Again, if there was any evidence that LeBron had hit his peak or was near it, I'd have no problem listening to an argument or even accepting it. There just isn't any evidence.

We have an idea of Lebron's peak because while he's improving, he's not drastically improving. We don't see huge differences in his game, we see refinement. We see him learning what he should and should not do. We see him working on his jumpers, but we don't see him adding much to his arsenal.

Remember Kobe at the age of 24? He was kinda like Lebron, but with speed and finesse and sometimes, raw power... but nothing like Lebron's. However, with age, Kobe added more and more to his arsenal. He worked on his left hand, he worked on his midrange, he worked on his post moves, he worked on his footwork. The change in Kobe's game is actually quite noticable. When you would have once seen a streak of yellow blur past his defender, you now see that same yellow jersey dancing around them with incredible footwork.

Lebron shows none of this. He is basically the same player as when he came in the game... capable of passing, capable of beating almost anyone off the dribble with his speed, capable of overpowering people. Now, his jumper is a little more refined, he takes smarter shots, his FT% is a little bit better, but he hasn't added anything to his game.

Can you honestly say to my face that Lebron can blow by his defender now, not based on speed or strength, but on his footwork? Can you dump the ball to Lebron on an iso-play at the high post and expect him to score at a high rate there? Can you see Lebron using LESS of his incredible size and speed and more skill these days?

I can't.

I can say that I saw Kobe develop all of these things, and when his team needed to... when his starting lineup looked like a mediocre D-League team (minus LO)... he put together a string of 40+, 50+ point games. He worked his team back into a game singlehandedly, and just happened to score 81 points along the way. He outscored the #1 team in the West through 3 quarters, before he finally sat out the 4th.

So yeah. I'm pretty sure, but not definite that Lebron is near his peak.

philab
05-19-2009, 06:54 PM
We have an idea of Lebron's peak because while he's improving, he's not drastically improving. We don't see huge differences in his game, we see refinement. We see him learning what he should and should not do. We see him working on his jumpers, but we don't see him adding much to his arsenal.

Remember Kobe at the age of 24? He was kinda like Lebron, but with speed and finesse and sometimes, raw power... but nothing like Lebron's. However, with age, Kobe added more and more to his arsenal. He worked on his left hand, he worked on his midrange, he worked on his post moves, he worked on his footwork. The change in Kobe's game is actually quite noticable. When you would have once seen a streak of yellow blur past his defender, you now see that same yellow jersey dancing around them with incredible footwork.

Lebron shows none of this. He is basically the same player as when he came in the game... capable of passing, capable of beating almost anyone off the dribble with his speed, capable of overpowering people. Now, his jumper is a little more refined, he takes smarter shots, his FT% is a little bit better, but he hasn't added anything to his game.

Can you honestly say to my face that Lebron can blow by his defender now, not based on speed or strength, but on his footwork? Can you dump the ball to Lebron on an iso-play at the high post and expect him to score at a high rate there? Can you see Lebron using LESS of his incredible size and speed and more skill these days?

I can't.

I can say that I saw Kobe develop all of these things, and when his team needed to... when his starting lineup looked like a mediocre D-League team (minus LO)... he put together a string of 40+, 50+ point games. He worked his team back into a game singlehandedly, and just happened to score 81 points along the way. He outscored the #1 team in the West through 3 quarters, before he finally sat out the 4th.

So yeah. I'm pretty sure, but not definite that Lebron is near his peak.

Not drastically improving? Are you ****ing serious? The guy was arguably the most improved player in the league this year. He went from a HS player to the best player in the world in five years.

I just don't get it. You say Kobe was similar to LeBron at the same age but added more and more to his arsenal as time went on. Soooo, why can't LeBron do the same? I'm not saying he will, but he CAN (i.e., he's not near his potential peak).

"LeBron is basically the same player as when he came into the league" is about the dumbest comment I've seen on here. I cannot reply to that.

Yeah, the Lakers were a mediocre D-League team without Kobe and Odom. Yeah, okay.


Why you turn this into a Kobe vs. LeBron thing is beyond me. Kobe's 81 points, 50 point games, supporting cast . . . what the hell does this have to do with anything? Point is, LeBron is nowhere near his potential peak. I'm not saying he'll reach it; I'm not even saying he'll improve from this year to next.

All I'm saying is that there's NO evidence, whatsoever, to suggest that LeBron has reached his peak. If it's your opinion that he has -- completely unsupported by facts -- fine. Let's not act like it's the definitive truth, though.

IndyRealist
05-19-2009, 08:30 PM
I would take Granger over Durant tbh.

+1.

How this become a Lebron vs. Kobe thread, anyway?

THE MTL
05-19-2009, 08:46 PM
This Comparison Will Never get To Bird/Magic Status Cuz Lebron Will Go Down As One Of The Greatest Players To Ever Play The Game...While Durant Will Only Be A Good Player At Best

What are u talking about. Never before has there been a player with the size, length, shooting ability, rebounder, etc. like Durant! Durant is going to be a very special player :D

IBleedPurple
05-19-2009, 08:49 PM
Lebron shows none of this. He is basically the same player as when he came in the game...

So yeah. I'm pretty sure, but not definite that Lebron is near his peak.

Even though your whole post was pretty ridiculous, I'll just point out these two points for the sake of discussion (and for those that wouldn't read it all).

On another note, crack is bad.

IBleedPurple
05-19-2009, 08:56 PM
But can you say Lebron is the best? I'm taking Kobe out of this argument because he's a vet but don't you think Wade should be in the same conversation as Lebron? I mean Wade already has a championship, somthing Lebron doesn't have but yet we've already crowned Lebron better then Wade?

Skill set wise I think Wade is better than Lebron. Lebron has the edge for size and athletic ability. It's def a tough debate reguardless. I just don't think Wade gets enough credit for how good he is. His skill set is really similiar to Kobe's I think.


Going back to the topic I don't think Durant is on LBJ's Level but who knows where Durant will be in a couple years, he gets overshadowed alot because of the city he plays in. I think he's great and has a wide arrange of skill sets. In the end I could see him as a # 2 at best but then again it's still to early in his career to tell.

(sorry for double post)
I would be very confident in saying that Lebron is better than Wade. Without breaking down every aspect of their games, I think most would agree. Even Jerry (I love Kobe) West said that Lebron has taken over as the best in the NBA. It isn't just hype.

And as for the championship argument, you put Lebron on the Heat with Shaq, and you get the same result IMO.

I completely agree that Wade doesn't get enough credit for what he does, I think the lack of attention for the Heat is a big factor.

Kenny
05-19-2009, 08:59 PM
can durant lead his team to 25 wins first

charlsdq7
05-19-2009, 09:11 PM
Lebron cant be compared...hes about to pass MJ so Durant cannot be close LJ

JayW_1023
05-20-2009, 03:08 AM
Durant hasn't done enough to really make it a legit possibility, not that he doesn't have the potential.

He could become a superstar like LeBron...but then again, also an all star like McGrady. It's all about work ethic that decide where Durants career is headed.

To become a real elite guy, he must A: Bulk up. B: Improve his decisionmaking...and foremost C: Improve his defense.

JayW_1023
05-20-2009, 03:18 AM
Durant reminds me of The Iceman, George Gervin, by the way...wouldn't suprise me if he leads the league in scoring next year, like Gervin did.

Finger rollllllll....

Zetterberg40
05-20-2009, 03:24 AM
no because guess what: in a year or two lebron will be better too. duarnt has the skills to be the second best sf and the game, but its gonna be clear without a doubt lebron will be the best SF in the game. In two years he may be without a doubt the best player in the game.

LeBron is the best player in the league right now without a doubt

Zetterberg40
05-20-2009, 03:25 AM
"LeBron James is the MVP; Kobe Bryant is the better player.

Both are lockdown defenders, fantastic passers, capable of scoring or facilitating and excellent leaders of their teams. The primary differences lie in each player's individual offensive repertoires, and the key here is the versatility, polish, and completeness of each player's game.

LeBron James is a player with one primary, ultradeveloped offensive skill: his ability to get to the hoop for layups and dunks. At the same time, there are several areas that he has yet to develop. He has improved his 3-point and free throw shooting this year, but even so, both are average at best. He has no midrange jumper, he doesn't use screens effectively, and his post game is suspect. His athleticism and quickness are his primary tools, and his footwork at this point is still fairly rudimentary -- which, in part, explains why he's not better in the post. (Imagine what a player of his size, strength, and athleticism could do in the post with Kobe's footwork!)

Kobe Bryant doesn't have a single dominant skill that far outweighs all others, like LeBron does. Instead, he has the most complete, versatile, and polished skill set in the NBA. Pull-up jumper, leaner, runner, floater, fadeaway, fallaway, midrange, long-range, close-range, pump fake, jab step, up-and-under, dunk, layup, left hand, right hand, face-up, post-up, driving, elevating, strength, savvy, power, finesse, balance, body control, footwork. Bryant can do it all. His footwork, in particular, is unparalleled, and because of it, he is extremely effective in the post, making easy work of smaller players and even taking advantage of larger players without the fundamental skill set to compete with his own.

Simply put, the difference between the two boils down to unprecedented raw athleticism versus unequaled, finely honed skill. "

Once again LeBron is the best player in the league. Kobe is awesome but hes just not better then LeBron.

JayW_1023
05-20-2009, 03:52 AM
We have an idea of Lebron's peak because while he's improving, he's not drastically improving. We don't see huge differences in his game, we see refinement. We see him learning what he should and should not do. We see him working on his jumpers, but we don't see him adding much to his arsenal.

Remember Kobe at the age of 24? He was kinda like Lebron, but with speed and finesse and sometimes, raw power... but nothing like Lebron's. However, with age, Kobe added more and more to his arsenal. He worked on his left hand, he worked on his midrange, he worked on his post moves, he worked on his footwork. The change in Kobe's game is actually quite noticable. When you would have once seen a streak of yellow blur past his defender, you now see that same yellow jersey dancing around them with incredible footwork.

Lebron shows none of this. He is basically the same player as when he came in the game... capable of passing, capable of beating almost anyone off the dribble with his speed, capable of overpowering people. Now, his jumper is a little more refined, he takes smarter shots, his FT% is a little bit better, but he hasn't added anything to his game.

Can you honestly say to my face that Lebron can blow by his defender now, not based on speed or strength, but on his footwork? Can you dump the ball to Lebron on an iso-play at the high post and expect him to score at a high rate there? Can you see Lebron using LESS of his incredible size and speed and more skill these days?

I can't.

I can say that I saw Kobe develop all of these things, and when his team needed to... when his starting lineup looked like a mediocre D-League team (minus LO)... he put together a string of 40+, 50+ point games. He worked his team back into a game singlehandedly, and just happened to score 81 points along the way. He outscored the #1 team in the West through 3 quarters, before he finally sat out the 4th.

So yeah. I'm pretty sure, but not definite that Lebron is near his peak.


That's because LeBron is athletically still at his peak. I disagree that LeBron is as you say "basically the same player as when he came in the game". His defense has improved significantly, he is more patient offensively and he is more polished.

Kobe started adding to his game as his athelticism declined...you can't knock LeBron because he happens to still be in his athletic prime. As LeBrons athleticism dimishes...I'm sure he'll starts polishing his game just as Kobe has.

To be the best is one thing, but to stay the best you have to keep working on your game. Kobe is probably the best example in the league why. And all signs point to LeBron doing the same to compensate his eventual decline in pure athletic dominance.

Mallpha
05-20-2009, 07:53 AM
Lebron cant be compared...hes about to pass MJ so Durant cannot be close LJ

:eyebrow: seriously...

As for Durant his offensive game is allready better than LeBrons the main reason why its not so obvious yet is becouse Durants body doesnt allow him to play as good as he could if he would bulk up.

Personaly i think LeBrons offensive game is good, not great but if you have his body good is enough to be amazing.

Testaverde16
05-20-2009, 08:07 AM
i dont think you can compare anything to bird/magic

is it possible? sure.... not likely though.... no one can really go back and forth with lebron

JJ81
05-20-2009, 08:53 AM
lmao.

Hoopsadvocate
05-20-2009, 10:34 AM
Lebron/Durant does not come slightly close to Bird/Magic i thought this was a joke thread when i read the title but its seriouse wow.
Kobe/Nowitski is a better comparison or Lebron/Wade. Durant is not on that level yet. Your man love for him is quite impressive though.

GrkGawdofWalkz
05-20-2009, 10:45 AM
:eyebrow: Durant being compared to either player (Magic or Bird) as an iconic player is mind boggling. I don't understand the thread. Lebron James may very well be on that plateau and amongst a very short list of players with Wade and Bryant but, Durant? In ten years fine, but after two, with a team that won what 25 games. Lame!

DMessina508
05-20-2009, 10:51 AM
kevin durant is good... they also have the #3 pick which they could get someone around him.. maybe sign a free agent and they could improve

uncblue2332
05-20-2009, 10:51 AM
considering LeBron will be arguably the best player ever definitely number 2 the comparison is way off the mark

GrkGawdofWalkz
05-20-2009, 10:55 AM
considering LeBron will be arguably the best player ever definitely number 2 the comparison is way off the mark

Numbers wise, maybe. But he's not won a ring yet, yes statistically he's better than Jordan was at this time. But he will never be better. Jordan is a much more clutch player and an even better lock down defender. He's a great player though! James is enjoyable to watch for the most part.

Kubbas
05-20-2009, 11:05 AM
your kidding right? your saying kobe can post up better than lebron? wow, you are blind. really the only thing kobe has on lebron is 3 point shooting and a slight edge in the mid range game


your kidding right?

Lebron can't post up, everybody know's that, Kobe not posting well? oh man watch some games, Game 1 vs Nuggs should do it. SLIGHT?! SLIGHT EDGE?! Lebron can't shoot, Lebron can shoot against injured hawks and worst in the playoffs pistons.

Ju-23
05-20-2009, 11:44 AM
What are u talking about. Never before has there been a player with the size, length, shooting ability, rebounder, etc. like Durant! Durant is going to be a very special player :D


:eyebrow:What Are YOU Talking About...When Have You Seen A Player With The Size(6'8 250+) Speed,Athleticism,Leadership,And Skill Set As Lebron WHEN His Jumper Becomes More Consistant Durant Will Be Not Even Be Near Bron's Status...

GrkGawdofWalkz
05-20-2009, 11:44 AM
What are u talking about. Never before has there been a player with the size, length, shooting ability, rebounder, etc. like Durant! Durant is going to be a very special player :D

Are you serious? His name is in the same title! Lebron James, Magic Johnson, and others!

sp1derm00
05-20-2009, 11:48 AM
Not drastically improving? Are you ****ing serious? The guy was arguably the most improved player in the league this year. He went from a HS player to the best player in the world in five years.

I just don't get it. You say Kobe was similar to LeBron at the same age but added more and more to his arsenal as time went on. Soooo, why can't LeBron do the same? I'm not saying he will, but he CAN (i.e., he's not near his potential peak).

"LeBron is basically the same player as when he came into the league" is about the dumbest comment I've seen on here. I cannot reply to that.

Yeah, the Lakers were a mediocre D-League team without Kobe and Odom. Yeah, okay.


Why you turn this into a Kobe vs. LeBron thing is beyond me. Kobe's 81 points, 50 point games, supporting cast . . . what the hell does this have to do with anything? Point is, LeBron is nowhere near his potential peak. I'm not saying he'll reach it; I'm not even saying he'll improve from this year to next.

All I'm saying is that there's NO evidence, whatsoever, to suggest that LeBron has reached his peak. If it's your opinion that he has -- completely unsupported by facts -- fine. Let's not act like it's the definitive truth, though.

Lebron was the MIP player? Really? He had more help in Mo Williams, so he could spend more energy on defense and being overall, more efficient. He still can be shut down if you take away his lanes. He added overall, nothing significant to his game.

You have got to be kidding me. Lebron is ESSENTIALLY the same player as when he first came into the league. He's gotten better overall, but his take on the game is still the same. He has added nothing to his arsenal, he's just gotten better at what he does.

Since day one, Lebron's shooting game has been suspect. He has minimal post moves for a player of his talent, let alone any "go to" post moves where you can dump the ball to him in the high or low post and expect him to score at a high rate. Lebron probably knows his weakness as a shooter, but he still takes shots that most players should not take, let alone him. He's been a great finisher, great passer, great rebounder. His efficiency this season comes with the addition of Mo Williams which takes some of the focus off of Lebron, which makes life overall, easier for him.

SO YES. Lebron plays almost the same game since he's come into the league. There has been no evolution of Lebron James, he hasn't added anything to his arsenal... he's just gotten bigger, faster, stronger, and better at what he did when he first came into the league.

I threw Kobe into the argument because others have (scroll up). I throw Kobe into the argument because he's a good example of a player evolving and adapting. Getting better and adding weapons to his arsenal is what makes Kobe the best and why he hasn't lost a step as a player even though he's gotten older and slower... something Lebron will eventually have happen to him.

I can say Lebron is near his peak because he is what he is, and has been since day one in the league. He's probably the GREATEST finisher at the rim we've seen in the NBA. He's hitting his shots there at a ridiculous rate, something like 72% which is incredibly hard to improve on, and it's the biggest, most powerful part of his game... something that comes with his athleticism and body control and will diminish with age and mileage on his body.

Lebron's jump shot hits at a rate that's something like 36% which is an improvement, until you realize that some teams now try and force Lebron to take jumpers by giving him open looks.

Lebron's rebounding and Assist numbers are great, but we've seen them before from him in previous seasons. Same with his steals and blocks, though this season, he seems more dedicated on defense and staying in front of his man.

Lebron's FG% is higher up this season (by half a percent), but that can be attributed the addition of Mo Williams and the floor spacing/attention he recieves.

Lebron has improved in the FT% department by 3% (from his previous high of 75%).

The fact is, all of Lebron's improvements can be attributed with the addition of Mo Williams and Big Z's great year more than improvement in his game.

He has not added anything or developed anything since he's come into the league. He hasn't gotten better, talent wise. He's gotten bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter. His GAME has stayed the same.

How much can Lebron improve physically unless next season he's all of a sudden 6'9 290lbs with a 40 inch vert and a 1st step quicker than Derrick Rose's? Because really, his single biggest improvement in his game is his physical attributes.

How much better can Lebron get without added a go to post move, where his team can dump the ball to him on the high post and expect him to score? How much longer can he go on charging into the lane straight to the basket without deterioration to his body?

superkegger
05-20-2009, 02:32 PM
I think if two players are going to mirror the Magic/Bird duel its going to be Melo and LeBron.

philab
05-20-2009, 04:11 PM
Lebron was the MIP player? Really? He had more help in Mo Williams, so he could spend more energy on defense and being overall, more efficient. He still can be shut down if you take away his lanes. He added overall, nothing significant to his game.

You have got to be kidding me. Lebron is ESSENTIALLY the same player as when he first came into the league. He's gotten better overall, but his take on the game is still the same. He has added nothing to his arsenal, he's just gotten better at what he does.

Since day one, Lebron's shooting game has been suspect. He has minimal post moves for a player of his talent, let alone any "go to" post moves where you can dump the ball to him in the high or low post and expect him to score at a high rate. Lebron probably knows his weakness as a shooter, but he still takes shots that most players should not take, let alone him. He's been a great finisher, great passer, great rebounder. His efficiency this season comes with the addition of Mo Williams which takes some of the focus off of Lebron, which makes life overall, easier for him.

SO YES. Lebron plays almost the same game since he's come into the league. There has been no evolution of Lebron James, he hasn't added anything to his arsenal... he's just gotten bigger, faster, stronger, and better at what he did when he first came into the league.

I threw Kobe into the argument because others have (scroll up). I throw Kobe into the argument because he's a good example of a player evolving and adapting. Getting better and adding weapons to his arsenal is what makes Kobe the best and why he hasn't lost a step as a player even though he's gotten older and slower... something Lebron will eventually have happen to him.

I can say Lebron is near his peak because he is what he is, and has been since day one in the league. He's probably the GREATEST finisher at the rim we've seen in the NBA. He's hitting his shots there at a ridiculous rate, something like 72% which is incredibly hard to improve on, and it's the biggest, most powerful part of his game... something that comes with his athleticism and body control and will diminish with age and mileage on his body.

Lebron's jump shot hits at a rate that's something like 36% which is an improvement, until you realize that some teams now try and force Lebron to take jumpers by giving him open looks.

Lebron's rebounding and Assist numbers are great, but we've seen them before from him in previous seasons. Same with his steals and blocks, though this season, he seems more dedicated on defense and staying in front of his man.

Lebron's FG% is higher up this season (by half a percent), but that can be attributed the addition of Mo Williams and the floor spacing/attention he recieves.

Lebron has improved in the FT% department by 3% (from his previous high of 75%).

The fact is, all of Lebron's improvements can be attributed with the addition of Mo Williams and Big Z's great year more than improvement in his game.

He has not added anything or developed anything since he's come into the league. He hasn't gotten better, talent wise. He's gotten bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter. His GAME has stayed the same.

How much can Lebron improve physically unless next season he's all of a sudden 6'9 290lbs with a 40 inch vert and a 1st step quicker than Derrick Rose's? Because really, his single biggest improvement in his game is his physical attributes.

How much better can Lebron get without added a go to post move, where his team can dump the ball to him on the high post and expect him to score? How much longer can he go on charging into the lane straight to the basket without deterioration to his body?

Repeating it over and over doesn't make it true.

Maybe you should start paying attention. If you had been paying attention, you'd know LeBron developed a 3PT shot over the course of the season. He started out horrible and still ended just a hair below Kobe for the season. He shot nearly 40% from 3PT the last three months of the season. Kobe did not.

Or maybe you'd notice that LeBron's TS% has gone from a paltry .488 to .591 over his career. Kobe's never sniffed .591, by the way.

Or maybe you'd notice that given equal minutes, LeBron set CAREERS HIGHS ACROSS THE BOARD this year. Seriously, across the board -- every single statistic except FTA/game.

Or maybe you could watch the games. Watch how often LeBron takes the ball in the high post. Watch how LeBron has learned to improve his defense. Watch how he's learned to square his body on jumpers. Watch how he's improved his left hand. Watch how he makes less stupid turnovers. Watch how he he's learned to limit his fouls.


And don't say it's because of Z and Mo. Z's season was one of the weaker of his last 7-8 years anyway. And LeBron's supporting casts were horrible in the past. Now that he's got a semi-respectable cast and plays like it, improving his game across the board, suddenly that's a negative? Suddenly that means he's stagnating? You are ****ing out of your mind.

Baller1
05-20-2009, 07:11 PM
I think if two players are going to mirror the Magic/Bird duel its going to be Melo and LeBron.

Durant is going to be a better player then Melo.

superkegger
05-20-2009, 07:18 PM
Durant is going to be a better player then Melo.

Maybe, but he's got a ways to go for that. Melo has picked up defense, and plays it now. Durant is allergic to it.

Missing56&33
05-20-2009, 07:31 PM
For Durant to be as good as Melo, he will have to bulk up his toothpick frame.
He is a dynamic scorer though.

The thing that made Magic/Bird interesting, was that they both won. Durant has not won to this point. Not to mention, they are on completely different levels of play. You have the best player in the NBA, and the 20th-30th best. Not quite the same.

I'd say Melo & Wade are a more likely comparison. Jordan was the best back then, while Magic/Bird were #2 & #3, and they all came in the league around the same time. Same thing here, while LeBron is clearly the best, the next two that came into the league at the same time are Melo and Wade.

I thought the same thing but after watching him last year, i think he could keep his frame and still be a hall of famer. Reggie Miller never was big but he was effective. Durant is deceptively strong too.

Big E
05-20-2009, 07:48 PM
Nothing can be considered in the same league as Magic - Bird because of the racial tension. It was the two best but also black vs white.

_KB24_
05-20-2009, 07:50 PM
Good comparison. Durant is a dangerous shooting Sf like Bird and Bron is flashy like Magic. Durant has improved better then Lebron in his first two seasons and i think he will end up being a better player.

_KB24_
05-20-2009, 07:52 PM
Nothing can be considered in the same league as Magic - Bird because of the racial tension. It was the two best but also black vs white.

Magic and Bird are surely in a different league, but why does everyone have to bring race in to the mix. Are you telling me if Magic was white or Bird was black, it would not be such a deadly rivalry?

Yanks All Day
05-20-2009, 08:03 PM
This thread has quickly become a "find a reason to hate on LeBron" thread. It's simple. LeBron is the best player in the league right now, and he is only getting better. Durant can be special, but is not on the level of LeBron right now. Also, what made Magic/Bird such a great rivalry was the constant battles for championships. Right now, Cleveland is a serious contender. OKC is not. I agree with all who said LeBron-Melo is the closest thing we will see to Magic-Bird. So please, stop hating on LeBron. And whoever said there has been no evolution of LeBron, stop being so blind. Every year he has worked on what plagued him the year before, and has without a doubt become the best all around player in the game.

mrblisterdundee
05-20-2009, 08:08 PM
That's a good comparison. LeBron is the point forward that Magic was, but better, and Kevin Durant will definitely be better than Larry Bird.
Don't discount the comparison because Durant hasn't won a championship. He came onto a struggling team, just like LeBron. Besides, LeBron will not have won a championship until this June, and you'd have to be crazy to say he isn't better than Magic.
Kevin Durant will fill out his frame, and become the best player in the western conference. I'm not giving up on Oden, but Roy and Durant would have been the greatest shooting guard and small forward combination since Jordan and Pippen.

WhiteyBulger
05-20-2009, 08:25 PM
Durant's improvement from his rookie year to sophmore year is pretty scary.

Durant is actually on pace to become better than Carmelo Anthony by next season if he improves just slightly, and Melo is already arguably the 2nd or 3rd best SF in the league behind Lebron.

Does anyone think that Durant could possibly contend with Lebron in a year or two as the best SF in the league? He's got all the tools to be better offensively with his length and shot. He's a good finisher, and his long arms allow him to play good defense.

I would view a comparison between Lebron and Durant kinda like Bird and Magic. Magic was the better all-around player and the best playmaker in the game. Lebron is similar to Magic, but less of a playmaker and more of a scorer. He also plays superior defense to Magic.

Durant on the other hand, is a solid shooter like Bird. He's a shooter/rebounder.

That's ridiculous to compare a guy that played two years in the league to Magic or Bird. Durant can score but he needs to get his teammates involved more and play better defense to be considered a superstar.

philab
05-20-2009, 08:34 PM
I love that any player who can shoot and has some size is automatically compared to Bird. As if Bird's dominance was merely a product of his shooting.

Anyone want to check out Bird's career line? 24/10/6.

And that's his career line. We can start talking 28/9/8 if you want to go to seasons. How a nice 40/53/91 (%s) to top that off?

Durant isn't even close to Bird. Not even close. Those numbers are otherworldly. Durant hasn't even sniffed them. I'm giddy about the kid too, but players don't just become Larry Bird after one impressive season.

WhiteyBulger
05-20-2009, 08:40 PM
I love that any player who can shoot and has some size is automatically compared to Bird. As if Bird's dominance was merely a product of his shooting.

Anyone want to check out Bird's career line? 24/10/6.

And that's his career line. We can start talking 28/9/8 if you want to go to seasons. How a nice 40/53/91 (%s) to top that off?

Durant isn't even close to Bird. Not even close. Those numbers are otherworldly. Durant hasn't even sniffed them. I'm giddy about the kid too, but players don't just become Larry Bird after one impressive season.

Thank you. These kids now a days don't realize how great Larry Bird was. He had a sixth sense. The smartest basketball player I have ever seen.

Baller1
05-21-2009, 12:41 AM
Maybe, but he's got a ways to go for that. Melo has picked up defense, and plays it now. Durant is allergic to it.

People were saying the same thing about Melo when he was in his first 2-3 seasons. The difference is, Melo is just starting to figure it out this season. Durant is 20, and has already improved in every aspect of the game this season. Durant is going to win multiple scoring titles. To be honest, I can see him winning multiple MVP's, as well as chamionships.

He is going to be incredible.