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DenButsu
05-17-2009, 10:49 PM
( 1 ) LA Lakers (65-17) vs. (2) Denver Nuggets (54-28)


LA Lakers will have the Homecourt Advantage


LA Lakers Won Series 4-2
Series Breakdown

Game 1 LA Lakers 105, Denver 103 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Aqs3wGHBzU258OSjRVVUki68vLYF?gid=200 9051913)
Game 2 Denver 106, LA Lakers 103 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2009052113)
Game 3 LA Lakers 103, Denver 97 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2009052307)
Game 4 Denver 120, LA Lakers 101 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2009052507)
Game 5 LA Lakers 103, Denver 94 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AkMZLjPnSYOnZR7GcoYHSVu8vLYF?gid=200 9052713)
Game 6 LA Lakers 119, Denver 92 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AqRG2FUl2N121s3740ma9j68vLYF?gid=200 9052907)



REGULAR SEASON SERIES
Lakers Won Season Series 3-1
Lakers 104, Nuggets 97 - November 1, 2008
Nuggets 90, Lakers 104 - November 21, 2008
Lakers 79, Nuggets 90 - February 27, 2009
Nuggets 102, Lakers 116 - April 9, 2009



http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp109/KHinrich12/Team%20Logos/Lakers.png Projected Starting Lineup

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/65x90/3125.jpghttp://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/65x90/3118.jpghttp://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/2426.jpghttp://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/65x90/3513.jpghttp://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/2748.jpg


PG - Derek Fisher
SG - Kobe Bryant
SF - Trevor Ariza
PF - Pau Gasol
C - Andrew Bynum




http://s402.photobucket.com/albums/pp109/KHinrich12/Team%20Logos/th_Nuggets.png Projected Starting Lineup

http://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/63.jpghttp://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/2008.jpghttp://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/1975.jpghttp://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/515.jpghttp://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/1713.jpg


PG - Chauncey Billups
SG - Dahntay Jones
SF - Carmelo Anthony
PF - Kenyon Martin
C - Nene Hilario



Who will win this Western Conference Finals?

Draco
05-17-2009, 10:49 PM
I'll go first... Beat LA! Beat LA! Beat LA!

what54!?
05-17-2009, 10:51 PM
go denver!!!

LakersOrNothing
05-17-2009, 10:51 PM
I'll go first... Beat LA! Beat LA! Beat LA!

No kidding. Even if it was Lakers vs Memphis you would be saying that lol. Anyways. I'm taking Lakers in 5. :D

Ryan328
05-17-2009, 10:52 PM
I'm going LA in six

Gibby23
05-17-2009, 10:55 PM
Lake show in 5. They take games 1 and 2 at home and game 4 in Den and game 5 in Den.

ManRam
05-17-2009, 10:56 PM
I'm taking the Nuggets in 6. I think the Nuggets have just as much, if not more offensive power as the Lakers. But more importantly, they are extremely tough and rugged. They are a physical team, led by one of the most clutch players of all time, and one of the best leaders of all time. I think they are mentally tougher too.

I also like Denver's defense more, and their bench more.

Kobe's going to have to be the difference maker. Pau and Bynum will have a much tougher time vs. tough BIG big men. No 6-6 centers here. Kenyon and Anderson are premiere defenders.

Should be an epic series...but I like the Nuggets. All they have to do is win one on the road...and I think they can.

what54!?
05-17-2009, 10:57 PM
I got the nuggets in 7

lakerboy
05-17-2009, 10:58 PM
Lakers redeem themselves by beating the McNuggets in 5.

Originally I posted it in 6, but after giving it enough thought :D

Eagles_Guy
05-17-2009, 10:58 PM
This is gonna be a great series. Alot of people have questioned the fact that Denver "has not faced a defense yet" in these playoffs, but the Lakers have been shaky on D at times in these playoffs.

Kobe can turn a game on a dime. Melo is playing some great ball right now.

Gonna be a great series, too close to call right now.

LakersOrNothing
05-17-2009, 11:04 PM
I'm a fan of both teams, but i wanna see my hometown prevail. If they don't, then I hope Denver wins it all. It'll diff be a tough series, and a great one hopefully

lakers4sho
05-17-2009, 11:04 PM
Lakers in 7.

LAKERMANIA
05-17-2009, 11:13 PM
Lakers in 6 or 7, I leaned towards 6. It should be a real fun series to watch. I for one vote for Kobe guarding Chauncey Billups

tr4shb0t
05-17-2009, 11:14 PM
I'm a fan of both teams, but i wanna see my hometown prevail. If they don't, then I hope Denver wins it all. It'll diff be a tough series, and a great one hopefully

Me too. I like Denver and their energy, but I gotta go with LA first.

Hoopsadvocate
05-17-2009, 11:16 PM
I agree with the TNT crew "The lakers dont deserve to win the championship" And for exactly the same reasons. Nuggets in 6-7

JordansBulls
05-17-2009, 11:28 PM
I believe this series will go 7 games as well.

bahama0811
05-17-2009, 11:28 PM
Nuggets in 7!!! This is gonna be a great series.

madiaz3
05-17-2009, 11:31 PM
I don't think anyone can guard Kobe, I know season head-to-head doesn't mean TOO much but Kobe has scored 29, 33, 29 and 33 in all four games against them.

ManRam
05-17-2009, 11:32 PM
If this series goes 7, the Lakers will win. They are too good at home, especially in a game 7. Nothing they've shown me allows me to believe they can win a game on the road vs. the Nuggets...so the key will be games 1,2 and 5 IMO. If the Nuggets win one of those...I like their chances. If not, the Lakers will be back in the Finals yet again.

JordansBulls
05-17-2009, 11:33 PM
I don't think anyone can guard Kobe, I know season head-to-head doesn't mean TOO much but Kobe has scored 29, 33, 29 and 33 in all four games against them.

He did the same against the Rockets as well in the season.

jackyyy
05-17-2009, 11:38 PM
Lakers in 6

tr4shb0t
05-17-2009, 11:39 PM
He did the same against the Rockets as well in the season.

I can't see anyone on the Nuggets willing to read a book on how to guard Kobe. Battier took on the challenge probably like no or few others can.

Either way, Kobe is not the answer to this series. Kobe will be Kobe, but Pau and Bynum will be key. They need to show up every game.

ManRam
05-17-2009, 11:43 PM
I can't see anyone on the Nuggets willing to read a book on how to guard Kobe. Battier took on the challenge probably like no or few others can.

Either way, Kobe is not the answer to this series. Kobe will be Kobe, but Pau and Bynum will be key. They need to show up every game.

Dahntay Jones is a shut-down defender. I imagine he'll see a lot more minutes this series than he saw last series. He's their best option IMO against Kobe.

superkegger
05-17-2009, 11:44 PM
He did the same against the Rockets as well in the season.

and they Lakers won the series.

Anyway, I don't think the Nuggets can contain Pau for a 7 game series. And that's the key. Kenyon Birdman and Nene tried to shut down dirk, and they didn't do all that good of a job. Pau and Dirk aren't the same player by any means, but they are similar.

Pau did this in the regular season:
16 and 16
12 and 4
18 and 10
27 and 19

Lamar in those games:
7points 9 boards 4 assists (off bench)
12 and 19 (starting)
13 and 2 (off bench)
10 and 6 (off bench)

Really, you can talk about how the Nuggets are more physical, but it didn't take Dirk off his game, and only took Pau off his game half the time. And really, Kmart can kinda matchup with with Lamar, but Nene and Andersen can't really that well.

What that does, if they play well, is it makes you pay attention to them, and makes it harder to double on Kobe. If they leave Dahntay on an island vs. Kobe, I think that's going to be hell for them, because Kobe is one of the best one on one players in the game, if not the best (in terms of 1 on 1 vs a defender in a game).

And that is precisely the reason why the Mavs struggled so mightily, because Dirk had no help. Kobe has help, and if Pau and Lamar bring it, and i see no reason why they shouldn't (i'll get to that in a moment) it makes it very hard to defend them.

Now, there is this issue of the Lakers inconsistency and a tendency for them to play with no sense of urgency at times. I think that will be much less of an issue this series. When they've been pushed, they've responded. Lost game 1, won games 2 and 3. Got complacent with Yao going down, lost game 4. Responded big time in game 5, again got complacent and got killed in game 6, and responded big in game 7.

There will be no reason to get complacent vs. the Nuggets because we know they are a very good team. One win won't result in us thinking the series is over. In my opinion at times this Laker team is too good for it's own good, because they think they can just win on their talent alone. In this series, they know that's not the case, and I'm guessing we'll see their best effort every night.

It won't be an easy series to win, by no means, I just don't like how Denver matches up against the Lakers.

Ylakers
05-17-2009, 11:45 PM
If this game goes 7, the Lakers will win. They are too good at home, especially in a game 7. Nothing they've shown me allows me to believe they can win a game on the road vs. the Nuggets...so the key will be games 1,2 and 5 IMO. If the Nuggets win one of those...I like their chances. If not, the Lakers will be back in the Finals yet again.

you really do just write without thinking. :pity:

the key for the nuggets is to control the paint and tempo against the lakers. the nuggets may be able to do that for one or two games in denver... but not an entire series. the lakers are just too big, strong and athletic.

let's see
billups > fisher
kobe >>>>>>>>>>> any player on denver roster
melo > ariza... although, this is going to be the best matchup O v D
pau > martin
bynum vs nene... not sure here... for now nene, if bynum wakes up... forget it denver, just settle for the outside shot and get ready to go fishing

and by the way... the lakers went in utah and houstan... beat both teams. doesn't really show you that the lakers can win on the road does it stan van gundy.

Ylakers
05-17-2009, 11:47 PM
Dahntay Jones is a shut-down defender. I imagine he'll see a lot more minutes this series than he saw last series. He's their best option IMO against Kobe.

:laugh2:

the worst part is... you're serious.

ManRam
05-17-2009, 11:49 PM
you really do just write without thinking. :pity:

the key for the nuggets is to control the paint and tempo against the lakers. the nuggets may be able to do that for one or two games in denver... but not an entire series. the lakers are just too big, strong and athletic.

let's see
billups > fisher
kobe >>>>>>>>>>> any player on denver roster
melo > ariza... although, this is going to be the best matchup O v D
pau > martin
bynum vs nene... not sure here... for now nene, if bynum wakes up... forget it denver, just settle for the outside shot and get ready to go fishing

and by the way... the lakers went in utah and houstan... beat both teams. doesn't really show you that the lakers can win on the road does it stan van gundy.

What did I say that was stupid? That the Lakers have struggled on the road??? You are 2-3 on the road so far this post-season, vs. far weaker teams than you are about to face.

And doing the whole match up thing is a horrible way of breaking down a series. If anything, you just showed me that it's 2-2-1 in your little match up thingy. That seems pretty even to me. I also like the Nuggets bench more than the Lakers' and Phil's coaching didn't seem to great last series. So does that mean the Nuggets will win because they win more of these on-paper match ups????

And what does your last paragraph even mean??

Home court matters, a lot. That's all I'm saying dude.

Angel
05-17-2009, 11:50 PM
Nuggets match up great against LA. Chauncey matches up with Fisher great, Melo matches up with Ariza great, Nene matches up with Gasol good, and the big one Kenyon Martin and Lamar Odom. Martin is a very good defender and the exact type of defender to give Odom problems plus the Nuggets can put up points with anybody. So the Nuggets are just as good offensively and better defensively which means the Nuggets win in 6 games.

ManRam
05-17-2009, 11:51 PM
:laugh2:

the worst part is... you're serious.

Ask Chris Paul who the most annoying, pesky, and energetic defender he faced this year is. I know for a fact he said it was Dahntay Jones. You obviously haven't seen much of him. He'll become your most hated player....guaranteed. He's not going to shut-down Kobe, not at all...but he is a way above average defender.

lakers4sho
05-17-2009, 11:52 PM
Nuggets need to steal one from LA like Houston did to get a good shot in winning the series.

If Lakers don't win in 5 it'll go 7.

JordansBulls
05-17-2009, 11:52 PM
So when do the finals start as MSN already has the prediction.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w270/coronaftw/msn.jpg

shas
05-17-2009, 11:52 PM
go lakers. lakers in 7

lakers4sho
05-17-2009, 11:53 PM
Ask Chris Paul who the most annoying, pesky, and energetic defender he faced this year is. I know for a fact he said it was Dahntay Jones. You obviously haven't seen much of him. He'll become your most hated player....guaranteed. He's not going to shut-down Kobe, not at all...but he is a way above average defender.

Kobe's 6'6", CP's 6'0" at most.

Kobe's offensive repertoire and IQ overly exceed's Paul's.

Dahntay MAY be a good defender, but not as good as Battier/Artest.

DenButsu
05-17-2009, 11:55 PM
:laugh2:

the worst part is... you're serious.

Spoken like someone who didn't watch a single game of the Nuggets-Hornets series, in which Dahntay Jones (with assistance from some great help defense) totally shut down CP3.

That said, guarding CP3 and guarding Kobe is not the same thing, of course. But Dahntay deserves his due for being a legitimately good defender. Denver's quick finishing off of New Orleans can largely be credited to him. And he did a pretty great job on Terry in round 2 as well. Again, that's not the same as guarding Kobe, but if you're mocking the notion that Jones has the ability to be a lock down defender, then you're only exposing the fact that you really haven't watched him play.

ManRam
05-17-2009, 11:56 PM
Kobe's 6'6", CP's 6'0" at most.

Kobe's offensive repertoire and IQ overly exceed's Paul's.

Dahntay MAY be a good defender, but not as good as Battier/Artest.

Didn't ever say Dahntay was as good as Battier or Artest. I just said he's Denver's best option IMO. He is a great defender. He's not going to shut down Kobe...not even close. All I said was that he is a pesky defender, and Denver's best option.

Dahntay is 6-6, 210 (same as Kobe). If a 6-6 guy can annoy CP as much as he does, he's gotta be extremely quick for his size. That shows a lot to me.

Game_Over
05-17-2009, 11:56 PM
I don't think anyone is saying Jones is going to stop Kobe, I think he can slow him down though.. Kobe will get his but Denver has a great bench and to me that will be the difference..

Eagles_Guy
05-17-2009, 11:57 PM
so when do the finals start as msn already has the prediction.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w270/coronaftw/msn.jpg

lol.

Lakersfan2483
05-17-2009, 11:58 PM
The Nuggets have a very good team and have a lot of matchups that they can try to exploit, but having said all of that, I am picking the Lakers in 6 games. They don't have anyone to really slow down Kobe and he will be the difference.

Gibby23
05-18-2009, 12:04 AM
I don't think anyone is saying Jones is going to stop Kobe, I think he can slow him down though.. Kobe will get his but Denver has a great bench and to me that will be the difference..

Jones can't slow Koe down, Jones wouldn't start for a lot of teams in the NBA and he will get exposed.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 12:06 AM
Dahntay Jones has just officially become my new favorite player.

Dahntay-haters will see the light eventually. GOAT.

Don't mess with Dahntay.

Sig in development...last year it was Paul "Troophgoose" Pierce (mongoose's dominate mambas). This year it's...well, you'll just have to wait and see. Go Dahntay!!

tdunk21
05-18-2009, 12:07 AM
nuggets in 7 for sure....lakers are strugglin

Gibby23
05-18-2009, 12:09 AM
Dahntay Jones has just officially become my new favorite player.

Dahntay-haters will see the light eventually. GOAT.

Don't mess with Dahntay.

Sig in development...last year it was Paul "Troophgoose" Pierce (mongoose's dominate mambas). This year it's...well, you'll just have to wait and see. Go Dahntay!!

He will be out of the NBA in 3 or 4 years, and will get lit up Tuesday. He's no Battier and will get in foul trouble. Kobe will go to the line this series.

Chronz
05-18-2009, 12:16 AM
I'm taking the Nuggets in 6. I think the Nuggets have just as much, if not more offensive power as the Lakers. But more importantly, they are extremely tough and rugged. They are a physical team, led by one of the most clutch players of all time, and one of the best leaders of all time. I think they are mentally tougher too.

I also like Denver's defense more, and their bench more.

Kobe's going to have to be the difference maker. Pau and Bynum will have a much tougher time vs. tough BIG big men. No 6-6 centers here. Kenyon and Anderson are premiere defenders.

Should be an epic series...but I like the Nuggets. All they have to do is win one on the road...and I think they can.

Hayes is a better defender than anyone on the Nuggets roster, I have a feeling your going to be drastically disappointed with this series. Kobe and the Lakers Bigs are going to have an easier time than they had against Yao-Hayes-Scola primarily. Kmart and Nene are good defenders but they dont play bigger than their height, they do better in quickness matchups like against Odom/Ariza but Ive never seen Pau or Bynum struggle against them.

Chauncey will own the PG position to help offset the frontcourts dominance, and Kobe will have an easier time scoring, so that leaves it all on Melo, I dont think hes at the point in his career where he HAS to perform to win. Without Melo scoring in dominant fashion the Nuggets wont have enough offense to match the Lakers.

Lakers in 5

DenButsu
05-18-2009, 12:18 AM
Okay, keg, there's a lot of different little points to nitpick in your post, but just to hit some of the main ones (since I don't have much time right now)...


Kenyon Birdman and Nene tried to shut down dirk, and they didn't do all that good of a job.

I don't think either part of that is really accurate. Firstly, the Nuggets' game plan was not to "shut down Dirk", it was to limit specific areas of his effectiveness, first and foremost his playmaking ability and take away opportunities for him to get his teammates easy looks. Denver manned up a single defender on him for the entire series in order to maintain solid coverage of the other players on the court. And in this respect, I think all 3 of the Nuggets big men did what they were expected to do. Dirk went hog wild on the scoring front, but none of the other players were able to get anything going on with any consistency. Additionally, while Dirk did score a lot, he had to really work his *** off for those points, and especially in the fourth quarters of games 1 and 2 he went completely M.I.A. The Nuggets game plan was pretty much a success, in spite of Nowitzki putting up such great scoring numbers (as reflected by the result of the series).





Pau and Dirk aren't the same player by any means, but they are similar.

Pau did this in the regular season:
16 and 16
12 and 4
18 and 10
27 and 19

Lamar in those games:
7points 9 boards 4 assists (off bench)
12 and 19 (starting)
13 and 2 (off bench)
10 and 6 (off bench)

I really don't put much stock in those regular season games. The first two were in November, for one thing, but more importantly Denver has just really elevated their level of play in the postseason. "It's a whole new season" is an overused cliche, but in this case I do really think it applies to the Nuggets. Nearly across the board, from Chauncey to Melo to Nene to J.R. to the defensive role players, nearly every player on the roster has stepped up to achieve on a higher level, and moreover they've done it in unison, with better chemistry and team play than I've ever seen from any Nuggets team, ever. Now that's not to say they can automatically sustain that level of play when they go up against the Lakers, who are clearly their toughest opponent thus far in the playoffs. But if you had asked me one month ago how I liked the chances of the Nuggets stealing a game in Los Angeles, I'd probably have said "highly doubtful". Having watched them (and the Lakers) since the regular season ended, I'd change that to "there's a very real possibility of that".

DenButsu
05-18-2009, 12:19 AM
Lakers in 5

Did you put money on that one, too? :cool:

Chronz
05-18-2009, 12:19 AM
:laugh2:

the worst part is... you're serious.

D. Jones is as much of a shutdown defender as anyone else in the league. Not Battier or Ariza level but thats nothing to scoff at.

bahama0811
05-18-2009, 12:20 AM
Hayes is a better defender than anyone on the Nuggets roster, I have a feeling your going to be drastically disappointed with this series. Kobe and the Lakers Bigs are going to have an easier time than they had against Yao-Hayes-Scola primarily. Kmart and Nene are good defenders but they dont play bigger than their height, they do better in quickness matchups like against Odom/Ariza but Ive never seen Pau or Bynum struggle against them.

Chauncey will own the PG position to help offset the frontcourts dominance, and Kobe will have an easier time scoring, so that leaves it all on Melo, I dont think hes at the point in his career where he HAS to perform to win. Without Melo scoring in dominant fashion the Nuggets wont have enough offense to match the Lakers.

Lakers in 5

Kenyon Martin is a 10x better defender than Hayes

AllTheWay
05-18-2009, 12:21 AM
If this series goes 7, the Lakers will win. They are too good at home, especially in a game 7. Nothing they've shown me allows me to believe they can win a game on the road vs. the Nuggets...so the key will be games 1,2 and 5 IMO. If the Nuggets win one of those...I like their chances. If not, the Lakers will be back in the Finals yet again.

Really? The league's best road record did not show you anything?

The 7 game series was a result of the Lakers playing down to the Rockets talent level, nothing more. As we saw in games 2,3,5 and 7.....when the Lakers care, they are the best.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Lakers in 5.

LA412
05-18-2009, 12:23 AM
Lakers in 7.........Why is everyone saying the Nuggets are so great when in reality the Mavs were a bad call away from having it 2-2?

ManRam
05-18-2009, 12:23 AM
Kenyon Martin is a 10x better defender than Hayes

x2

Not to mention, Chuck Hayes is 6-6. Bynum and Pau just held the ball over their heads the whole game, and there was nothing anyone on the Rockets could do. And can Scola even jump high enough to dunk? The Nuggets are taller, and tougher up front.

Chronz, we're just going to have to see. I think the Nuggets front court does play a lot taller than the Rockets' front court. I don't think they'll have an easier time at all vs. Denver's front court. Only time will tell who is right...

Chronz
05-18-2009, 12:25 AM
Did you put money on that one, too? :cool:
So far these playoffs my net profit has been a cool 55$, the trick is finding the least/most hyped series and making claims that seem absurd at the time. Im putting 10 on this one ending in 5. I wouldnt be surprised if it went 6, but I will be surprised if its a competitive 6 game series.

Chronz
05-18-2009, 12:25 AM
Kenyon Martin is a 10x better defender than Hayes

I just looked it up, you were wrong. Kenyon is .5x the better defender than Hayes.

bahama0811
05-18-2009, 12:27 AM
Lakers in 7.........Why is everyone saying the Nuggets are so great when in reality the Mavs were a bad call away from having it 2-2?

The same reason you think a Lakers team that was one crappy game from being knocked out of the playoffs is so great. The Nuggets have pretty much dominated the Hornets and the Mavs.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 12:27 AM
Really? The league's best road record did not show you anything?

The 7 game series was a result of the Lakers playing down to the Rockets talent level, nothing more. As we saw in games 2,3,5 and 7.....when the Lakers care, they are the best.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Lakers in 5.

The regular season is the regular season. The playoffs are a whole different specimen...where mental toughness become more important than skill.

And saying "when the Lakers care, they are the best" isn't a good thing. Who is to say they'll care more this series than last series? They are both mentally soft, and physically softer than the Nuggets. That's bad news in the playoffs. Getting blown out twice on the road vs. the Rockets is enough for me to question their ability on the road. If you want to overlook it, so be it. I don't.

And I'm not so certain that "when they care" they really are the best. That's why the games are played...

AllTheWay
05-18-2009, 12:32 AM
The regular season is the regular season. The playoffs are a whole different specimen...where mental toughness become more important than skill.

And saying "when the Lakers care, they are the best" isn't a good thing. Who is to say they'll care more this series than last series? They are both mentally soft, and physically softer than the Nuggets. That's bad news in the playoffs. Getting blown out twice on the road vs. the Rockets is enough for me to question their ability on the road. If you want to overlook it, so be it. I don't.

And I'm not so certain that "when they care" they really are the best. That's why the games are played...

They will care more in this series because they know the Nuggets are legit. The Nuggets will jump on the Lakers far quicker than the Rockets did if the Lakers sag off. You learn from your mistakes, which is precisely what the Lakers will do. The Lakers got complacent with no Yao and figuring the series was already won in games 4 and 6. They have to know that won't be the case this series.

I also don't think Chauncey will rip Fish as bad as everyone else might think. Brooks absolutely raped Fisher thanks to his speed. A lot of what Chauncey does has to do with his awesome size for a PG, and advantage he won't be able to take advantage of against Fisher....

madiaz3
05-18-2009, 12:34 AM
The same reason you think a Lakers team that was one crappy game from being knocked out of the playoffs is so great. The Nuggets have pretty much dominated the Hornets and the Mavs.

Houston was still league's better than both of the teams you mentioned, although the Rockets couldn't start a series injured and win against the Mavs.

Chronz
05-18-2009, 12:36 AM
x2

Not to mention, Chuck Hayes is 6-6. Bynum and Pau just held the ball over their heads the whole game, and there was nothing anyone on the Rockets could do. And can Scola even jump high enough to dunk? The Nuggets are taller, and tougher up front.
You werent paying much attention to the Lakers series, neither Pau or Bynum got going against Hayes, he absolutely owned them in their 1 on 1 sets. In many ways Hayes lack of height helped him in his matchups vs the Lakers, K-Mart doesnt have the strength to push bigger players back so how exactly does he play taller than Hayes? They blew up in the final game but thats going to be the norm against Denver.

Nene is the only guy who wont get bullied but whichever big hes not guarding is going off, when a player is undersized vs the opposition, it doesnt matter whether your 6"6 or 6"9, the guy is going to be able to shoot over you, what matters at this point is your strength, desire and heart. Hayes has more of it, he just cant overcome his deficiencies on the other side of the court.


Chronz, we're just going to have to see. I think the Nuggets front court does play a lot taller than the Rockets' front court. I don't think they'll have an easier time at all vs. Denver's front court. Only time will tell who is right...

Ill bump this post in a few weeks. Im sure they wont get embarrassed, but they wont have more success than Hayes had, and the Rockets team defense is MUCH better than the Nuggets. Scola without Yao is a liability defensively so I can agree with you on Kmart/Bird and Nene are better defensively than him. Kmart/Bird and Nene are better defensively than him. Just not Hayes

ManRam
05-18-2009, 12:36 AM
They will care more in this series because they know the Nuggets are legit. The Nuggets will jump on the Lakers far quicker than the Rockets did if the Lakers sag off. You learn from your mistakes, which is precisely what the Lakers will do. The Lakers got complacent with no Yao and figuring the series was already won in games 4 and 6. They have to know that won't be the case this series.

I also don't think Chauncey will rip Fish as bad as everyone else might think. Brooks absolutely raped Fisher thanks to his speed. A lot of what Chauncey does has to do with his awesome size for a PG, and advantage he won't be able to take advantage of against Fisher....

Fair enough. But any time there is any question about a team showing up or not...I get scared.

Chauncey's track record I think speaks for itself. If not..he did very well against first team all-defense Chris Paul, and had a great series vs. Kidd and Terry. I don't think Fisher is really any better than any of those three. Chauncey is a beast in the playoffs...on Kobe's level as far as clutchness. Do not underestimate him.

Chronz
05-18-2009, 12:38 AM
The same reason you think a Lakers team that was one crappy game from being knocked out of the playoffs is so great. The Nuggets have pretty much dominated the Hornets and the Mavs.
How did the Lakers look against the Jazz? Thats all your seeing with the Nuggs play right now.

superkegger
05-18-2009, 12:39 AM
I don't think either part of that is really accurate. Firstly, the Nuggets' game plan was not to "shut down Dirk", it was to limit specific areas of his effectiveness, first and foremost his playmaking ability and take away opportunities for him to get his teammates easy looks. Denver manned up a single defender on him for the entire series in order to maintain solid coverage of the other players on the court. And in this respect, I think all 3 of the Nuggets big men did what they were expected to do. Dirk went hog wild on the scoring front, but none of the other players were able to get anything going on with any consistency. Additionally, while Dirk did score a lot, he had to really work his *** off for those points, and especially in the fourth quarters of games 1 and 2 he went completely M.I.A. The Nuggets game plan was pretty much a success, in spite of Nowitzki putting up such great scoring numbers (as reflected by the result of the series).

That's part of my point, Dirk still got his. Pau isn't the main option on this team, and I doubt the ability of the Nuggets bigs to take away Pau's scoring, which is what we need from him.

You can take away Pau's playmaking skills, that's fine. But if the Nuggets can't stop his scoring, it's going to be a problem, because that means he's doing his job. Dirk didn't have anyone else step up and help him in that series, and that won't be the case in this series, because Kobe will get his.

My point was, I don't think the Nugget bigs can take away Pau's scoring, and that will be a major problem, because then it makes Kobe that much more dangerous. The point I was making with Dirk, is that he DID score, and the Nuggets didn't have a way to take it away.



I really don't put much stock in those regular season games. The first two were in November, for one thing, but more importantly Denver has just really elevated their level of play in the postseason. "It's a whole new season" is an overused cliche, but in this case I do really think it applies to the Nuggets. Nearly across the board, from Chauncey to Melo to Nene to J.R. to the defensive role players, nearly every player on the roster has stepped up to achieve on a higher level, and moreover they've done it in unison, with better chemistry and team play than I've ever seen from any Nuggets team, ever. Now that's not to say they can automatically sustain that level of play when they go up against the Lakers, who are clearly their toughest opponent thus far in the playoffs. But if you had asked me one month ago how I liked the chances of the Nuggets stealing a game in Los Angeles, I'd probably have said "highly doubtful". Having watched them (and the Lakers) since the regular season ended, I'd change that to "there's a very real possibility of that".

I understand it's the playoffs and that the Nuggets are playing well in it, but again, that illustration was to show that the Nuggets haven't been all that incredibly effective at stopping Pau from doing what we need him to do, and that is score, and I think the closest comparison in terms of other PF's in the game to Pau would be Dirk, and they couldn't stop his scoring either. Which leads me to believe, the Nuggets, over the course of a 7 game series, I don't think the Nuggets can contain Pau from doing his damage.

Which in turn leads to Kobe being more free and able to do his thing offensively, which is bad news when Kobe is able to be more free to play his game.

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 12:41 AM
I'm taking the Nuggets in 6. I think the Nuggets have just as much, if not more offensive power as the Lakers. But more importantly, they are extremely tough and rugged. They are a physical team, led by one of the most clutch players of all time, and one of the best leaders of all time. I think they are mentally tougher too.

I also like Denver's defense more, and their bench more.

Kobe's going to have to be the difference maker. Pau and Bynum will have a much tougher time vs. tough BIG big men. No 6-6 centers here. Kenyon and Anderson are premiere defenders.

Should be an epic series...but I like the Nuggets. All they have to do is win one on the road...and I think they can.

Game 1
Pau/Bynum - 20/24/3B on 7-16 FG
KMart/Nene - 26/10/1B on 9-18 FG

Game 2
Pau/Bynum - 25/17/2B on 11-18 FG
KMart/Nene - 24/11/2B on 10-21 FG

Game 3
Pau/Odom - 30/29 on 11-30 FG
KMart/Petro - 7/3/1B on 2-6 FG

Game 4
Pau/Bynum - 43/26 on 16-30 FG
Petro/Nene - 19/12/2B on 8-16 FG

Lakers Total - 118/96/5B on 48% FG
Nuggets Total - 76/36/6B on 45% FG

You were saying what about Pau and Bynum? :rolleyes: (...and yes, I know Odom started one of the four.)

....and don't forget Kobe's 124 Points (31 PPG) - 16 Rebounds (4 RPG) - 9 Assists (2.25 APG) - 5 Steals - 1 Block - 48% FG and he took 39 FT as well. We've abused them in the paint and they haven't been able to stop Kobe. That doesn't look too good for them.

Chronz
05-18-2009, 12:44 AM
I think Den overrates the defensive job they did on Dirk. They werent playing him 1 on1 in the final 2 games. They started off with it, but they eventually trapped and tried to get the ball out of his hands. He was just murdering their bigs, its common sense that you take away the opposing teams best weapon if hes hurting you they werent going to let Dirk send it to another game, he almost had a triple double in the last one, his passing game was brilliant, he set everyone else up and they sucked. Dirk was never MIA in the 4th, there is only so much 1 man can do for an entire game.

Draco
05-18-2009, 12:47 AM
I'll reserve my prediction until after the first 2 games... that said.. Beat LA! Beat LA! Beat LA! :cheer:

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 12:48 AM
I said Lakers in 6 btw. I want to say 5 due to our dominance in the paint, but I'm not risking it with how up and down they can be.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 12:50 AM
Game 1
Pau/Bynum - 20/24/3B on 7-16 FG
KMart/Nene - 26/10/1B on 9-18 FG

Game 2
Pau/Bynum - 25/17/2B on 11-18 FG
KMart/Nene - 24/11/2B on 10-21 FG

Game 3
Pau/Odom - 30/29 on 11-30 FG
KMart/Petro - 7/3/1B on 2-6 FG

Game 4
Pau/Bynum - 43/26 on 16-30 FG
Petro/Nene - 19/12/2B on 8-16 FG

Lakers Total - 118/96/5B on 48% FG
Nuggets Total - 76/36/6B on 45% FG

You were saying what about Pau and Bynum? :rolleyes: (...and yes, I know Odom started one of the four.)

....and don't forget Kobe's 124 Points (31 PPG) - 16 Rebounds (4 RPG) - 9 Assists (2.25 APG) - 5 Steals - 1 Block - 48% FG and he took 39 FT as well. We've abused them in the paint and they haven't been able to stop Kobe. That doesn't look too good for them.

I can't argue with that (except that the Nuggets never had Anderson, Martin and Nene all healthy for any of those games)...we'll just have to see. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I do know that everything changes come playoff time...and defensive strategy is the number one thing. I'm just going with what I've seen during these playoffs. I don't watch much Laker or Nugget basketball during the regular season...so I'm going with what I have seen. And what I've seen in the playoffs gets me a lot more excited about the Nuggets potential than the Lakers.

I did notice earlier Kobe's very, very solid stats vs. the Nuggets though. That is scary.

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 01:03 AM
I can't argue with that (except that the Nuggets never had Anderson, Martin and Nene all healthy for any of those games)...we'll just have to see. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I do know that everything changes come playoff time...and defensive strategy is the number one thing. I'm just going with what I've seen during these playoffs. I don't watch much Laker or Nugget basketball during the regular season...so I'm going with what I have seen. And what I've seen in the playoffs gets me a lot more excited about the Nuggets potential than the Lakers.

I did notice earlier Kobe's very, very solid stats vs. the Nuggets though. That is scary.

Here's the problem with the Nuggets, Nene can't handle Bynum's size or Odom's speed and KMart usually has to go out and guard Kobe, because nobody else there can do it. They can either pull him off Kobe and let Kobe go for 50 easy or leave him on Kobe to hold him at 30, but then Gasol or Bynum is just gonna work Anderson. He's good, but he isn't tall enough to reach over Gasol or Bynum. When they fully extend those arms in the air, there really isn't anybody in the NBA outside of Yao and Dwight that can disrupt their shot with consistency (and I'm not taking into account bullies like Perkins). Anyways, I fully expect to see them play off Gasol in the post because he's obviously a great passer. As a secondary plan, they'll use he and Bynum in pick and roll. Third is Kobe Iso. He usually dominates them, so he'll get plenty of plays just for that. What worries me is how fast Denver has been playing. LA usually plays like their opponent...for example, they locked down Houston today. If they play Denver like I think they will, the games will be 150-149.

Chronz
05-18-2009, 01:06 AM
OK Im willing to buy in here, what exactly is it about the Nuggets thats getting everyone on their bandwagon? In a more specific sense, why should I think they are any better than the Rockets with Yao? Who seriously got smashed on by the way, it wasnt a true 7 game series, forget about the 2-2 record sans Yao, they played better with him than they did without him. Specifically Artest, the drop in Artest game was just insane.

That team was BEST equipped to handle the Lakers, now the Lakers are playing an easier defense against a team that generally pushes the pace? Lakers THRIVE when teams play uptempo, if the Nuggets slow it down their bigs get into foul trouble. Personal observation dont have any actual proof of that, but mark my words if the Lakers play slow it down ball they are getting to the line, Denver has a good defense (ranked 8) but one thing they didnt do that all the other great defensive teams did was not hack and give up freebies and they werent dominant on the glass. Now they are facing a team that couldnt be more prepared to expose those weaknesses. Obviously their offensive trio is great and will put tons of pressure on the Lakers defensively, but are you really willing to gamble that the Nuggets win a series by beating a defensive perimeter of Kobe and Ariza? Not a chance

DRE'-MAC
05-18-2009, 01:10 AM
I think that people are forgetting that the Lakers were the best team in the NBA before the playoffs and thinking since they played 7 games vs the Rockets that they must not be very good. I think that the Nuggets will win though in 7 games.
I think it will be a very fun series to watch though cause...
1. Nobody will be able to stop Chauncey
2. Nobody will be able to stop Kobe
3. Andrew Bynum is finally starting to show up
4. Chris Andersen is always fun to watch

charlsdq7
05-18-2009, 01:12 AM
lets go nuggets

Go Lakers
05-18-2009, 01:29 AM
lakers beat the chicken nuggets in 6 :D

KB24PG16
05-18-2009, 01:39 AM
i think it depends on the first two games
if the lakers win both then it be done in 5
if they split it would in 6 or 7 most likely 6

Ylakers
05-18-2009, 01:42 AM
Spoken like someone who didn't watch a single game of the Nuggets-Hornets series, in which Dahntay Jones (with assistance from some great help defense) totally shut down CP3.

That said, guarding CP3 and guarding Kobe is not the same thing, of course. But Dahntay deserves his due for being a legitimately good defender. Denver's quick finishing off of New Orleans can largely be credited to him. And he did a pretty great job on Terry in round 2 as well. Again, that's not the same as guarding Kobe, but if you're mocking the notion that Jones has the ability to be a lock down defender, then you're only exposing the fact that you really haven't watched him play.

jones is a good defender against undersized players.

when he plays a lot stronger and more physical post-up game... he's going to get schooled... as seen earlier through the year... and evident of the last meeting with the lakers. kobe pwned your team.

just not sure how anyone can say a newb is going to break kobe down and contain him.

anyways, i'll be sure to tell myself that i don't watch a lot of ball there oracle.

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 01:51 AM
I think that people are forgetting that the Lakers were the best team in the NBA before the playoffs and thinking since they played 7 games vs the Rockets that they must not be very good. I think that the Nuggets will win though in 7 games.
I think it will be a very fun series to watch though cause...
1. Nobody will be able to stop Chauncey
2. Nobody will be able to stop Kobe
3. Andrew Bynum is finally starting to show up
4. Chris Andersen is always fun to watch

You honestly don't think Fisher, Brown and Ariza can't slow him down a lot? Those three are GREAT against bigger, not so quick PG and will do a good job on him. Kobe will slow down Melo...just like he does LeBron. Who cares about Jones, Bynum can handle Nene just fine if Chauncey can't get him easy dunks and KMart is playing a quick dude with long arms in Gasol. LA just matches up so well against them. If Denver pushes the pace, LA gets to use their greatest strength. If they play slow, they can play off of Gasol in the post and foul out their players. Either way, it's a terrible matchup for Denver.

superkegger
05-18-2009, 02:07 AM
OK Im willing to buy in here what exactly is it about the Nuggets thats getting everyone on their bandwagon?

Now, I could be wrong, but I'm not. The reason people are jumping on the Nuggets bandwagon has very little to do with them all of the sudden falling in love with Denver. It has everything to do with their dislike of the Lakers. With Boston gone, and no other fanbase of the teams left of PSD being all that big, people are going to jump on board and root against the Lakers, because, well **** the Lakers, everybody hates em.

I think for the most part, very little of it has to do with actually evaluating it from a basketball standpoint, and just hating the Lakers. Not all of it, but most definitely a lot of the bandwagon jumping has to do with that over any other reason.

Draco
05-18-2009, 02:13 AM
i agree with the tnt crew "the lakers dont deserve to win the championship" and for exactly the same reasons. Nuggets in 6-7

+1

D Blue987
05-18-2009, 02:15 AM
D. Jones is as much of a shutdown defender as anyone else in the league. Not Battier or Ariza level but thats nothing to scoff at.

Unfortunately man, you need to be on that level if your going to have a shot at shuting Kobe down. Im sure no one is overlooking him but Kobe is just on another level. This isnt arrogance, it is truth. However, I believe Denver has the power to beat the Lakers as well but I think Kobe is going to hurt them this series much like last year and ultimately that will be the deciding factor. LA in 7

Lakersfan2483
05-18-2009, 02:17 AM
+1

And the hate continues.....

Draco
05-18-2009, 02:18 AM
And the hate continues.....

You hate numbers?

D Blue987
05-18-2009, 02:19 AM
You hate numbers?

he hates haters:D

Draco
05-18-2009, 02:21 AM
he hates haters:D

I wonder if that includes Kenny Smith and anyone who happens to agree with him. :rolleyes:

Namy
05-18-2009, 02:32 AM
I'm taking the Nuggets in 6.

A lot of points have been brought up already, and I'll try to refrain from perpetuating the same arguments, which seem to be going nowhere.

I do, however, have to mention - again - that the Nuggets of the playoffs are MUCH different than the Nuggets of the regular season. Basing predicitons off of regular season head-to-heads are pretty pointless. The Lakers swept the Rockets in the regular season, and struggled against an undermanned Rockets team at that in the playoffs (whether it is arrogance or not, it is still a flaw).

I think Lakers fans are seriously underestimating the Nuggets. But, before I come off as a homer, I will admit that I'm not sold on the Nuggets winning in 6. I acknowledge that we could very well lose to the Lakers. Unlike the Rockets, we don't have a "Kobe-stopper" (Dahntay, although a great defender, is not tall enough and is better suited in stopping shorter players imo). Also, Gasol and Bynum are much bigger than K-Mart and Nene, meaning they must work especially harder in boxing out for rebounds. Also, we tend to be a slow team when it comes to rotating defensively... and you guys have great spot-up 3-point shooters in Sasha, Fisher, and even Ariza/Farmar/Walton to some degree.

With that said, the Lakers can't stop Billups, Melo, or JR - at least, not the playoff versions. Chauncey has stepped up immensely in the playoffs. Although Melo has been more clutch, Billups has hit more big shots (as in momentum shifting shots). He's the definition of "cool," and he just seems completely un-phased by any playoff pressure, which has thankfully rubbed off on the entire team.

As for Carmelo, people are foolishly mentioning his low ppg against the Lakers. It's time to realize that he had played with an incredibly sore elbow for the majority of the season. He didn't shoot very well all season. The Lakers did a good job in exploiting that, but Carmelo is back in stride, and I think it's laughable that people think Ariza will "shut down" Carmelo. Melo is finally healthy.

JR will be another major factor. He will force Kobe to play some defense. Kobe hasn't really had to guard anyone as dangerous as JR. Kobe will unquestionably get his points, but JR's best defense against Kobe is by forcing Kobe to play at full speed on both ends of the floor, hopefully tiring him out. JR is also an underrated defender. He has really stepped his defense up in this post-season (though not worthy of that 1st place vote for the all-defensive team lol).

I have more points, but I will save them for later. I fear this post has gotten too long and will probably be looked over anyway haha.

BigEric
05-18-2009, 02:37 AM
Consistant forward and center play will be the key to the series.

LAKERMANIA
05-18-2009, 02:54 AM
I wonder if that includes Kenny Smith and anyone who happens to agree with him. :rolleyes:

Kenny Smith agreed with that statement? OMG, therefore it must be 100% fact! How can we have ever ignored the great mind of Kenny Smith!

:rolleyes:

Draco
05-18-2009, 02:57 AM
Kenny Smith agreed with that statement? OMG, therefore it must be 100% fact! How can we have ever ignored the great mind of Kenny Smith!

:rolleyes:

Hmm.. I wasn't trying to pass off Smith's opinion as fact. If someone happens to share Smith's opinion it doesn't make them a hater. Laker fans seem to think everyone either has to have always been Laker or Nugget fans or they have to be neutral. I'm rooting for the Nugs.. because the Laker's don't deserve to win the 'ship.:D

BTownTeamsRKing
05-18-2009, 03:12 AM
just wanna say Good Luck to both teams and I want both fanbases to really enjoy it. my guys fought hard, but there will be a new king in the NBA in 09.

my prediction, Lakers in 7

DenButsu
05-18-2009, 03:14 AM
Dirk was never MIA in the 4th, there is only so much 1 man can do for an entire game.

Dude, Dirk was absolutely beasting it up for big stretches of most games, but the simple truth is that he failed miserably down the stretch of nearly every game he played against the Nuggets in their series.


Dirk's 4th quarter disappearing acts to end 4 of the 5 games against Denver

...end of the 4th Q of game 1:
4:30 Dirk Nowitzki misses 7-foot jumper
1:51 Dirk Nowitzki defensive rebound
1:20 Dirk Nowitzki misses 15-foot jumper
0:41 James Singleton enters the game for Dirk Nowitzki

That's 0 points on 0-2 shooting in 4:30 to end the game.


...end of 4th Q of game 2:
10:22 Dirk Nowitzki enters the game for James Singleton
9:30 Dirk Nowitzki defensive rebound
9:02 Dirk Nowitzki lost ball (Chris Andersen steals)
9:48 Dirk Nowitzki misses two point shot
6:07 Dirk Nowitzki makes free throw 1 of 2
6:07 Dirk Nowitzki makes free throw 2 of 2
2:28 Dirk Nowitzki misses 8-foot two point shot
2:11 Dirk Nowitzki defensive rebound
no more entries for him in the final two minutes

That's 2 points on 0-2 shooting in 10:22 to end the game.


...end of 4th Q of game 3:
5:05 Dirk Nowitzki misses free throw 1 of 2
5:05 Dirk Nowitzki makes free throw 2 of 2
2:38 Dirk Nowitzki misses 25-foot three point jumper
2:21 Dirk Nowitzki defensive rebound
1:31 Dirk Nowitzki misses 13-foot two point shot
1:14 Dirk Nowitzki defensive rebound
0:58 Dirk Nowitzki misses 14-foot two point shot
0:07 Dirk Nowitzki misses 13-foot jumper
0:00 Dirk Nowitzki misses 30-foot three pointer

That's 1 point on 0-5 shooting in 5:05 to end the game.


...end of 4th Q of game 5:
5:35 Dirk Nowitzki personal foul (Kenyon Martin draws the foul)
5:33 Dirk Nowitzki defensive rebound
4:43 Dirk Nowitzki misses 26-foot three point jumper
3:51 Dirk Nowitzki misses 26-foot three point jumper
3:29 Dirk Nowitzki defensive rebound
3:17 Dirk Nowitzki makes free throw 1 of 2
3:17 Dirk Nowitzki makes free throw 2 of 2
2:17 Dirk Nowitzki misses 8-foot two point shot
1:12 Dirk Nowitzki bad pass
no more entries for him in the final minute

That's 2 points on 0-3 shooting in 5:35 to end the game.


So add it all up, and you're looking at a total of:

5 points
0-12 shooting
in just under 25 minutes of 4th quarter clutch time

Dirk's total minutes against Denver were 208, and his total points were 172. Subtract the ending stretches of the above games, and you're looking at 167 points in 183 minutes.

The bottom line:


MIN PTS PTS/MIN
End of games 1,2,3,5 25 5 .200
The rest 183 167 .913


So yeah, hell yes he disappeared in 4th quarters against the Nuggets. And that had everything to do, imho, with him getting exhausted by the Nuggets' physical defense that forced him to work pretty damn hard for his points.

-------------------
-------------------


All of that said, it really doesn't mean much against the Lakers, who are more accustomed to a faster paced game and who have a deeper rotation of bigs to help their guys keep their legs fresher. But that just means, I think, that the Nuggets will have to employ a different strategy than they used against Dallas. I really don't know what it will be, though, and it'll be interesting to find out. I'm guessing Johan Petro might see some minutes just to get a big body on the court for some minutes to absorb some fouls and keep the other guys out of trouble a little. Balkman might see his first (real) game action as well for his rebounding. The Nuggets will likely have to literally dig a little deeper in this series.

JayW_1023
05-18-2009, 05:08 AM
Nuggets in 7. I believe their bench will be the difference. They have the frontcourt depth to match LA, and they have the firepower to match the Lakers as well. Plus the Lakers have no one who matches up with Billups. I wouldn't be suprised to see Jackson shtick Kobe on him for stretches. The Nuggets are more physical, have better rebounding and also match LA's quickness and athleticism.

DenButsu
05-18-2009, 05:18 AM
Nuggets in 7. I believe their bench will be the difference. They have the frontcourt depth to match LA, and they have the firepower to match the Lakers as well. Plus the Lakers have no one who matches up with Billups. I wouldn't be suprised to see Jackson shtick Kobe on him for stretches. The Nuggets are more physical, have better rebounding and also match LA's quickness and athleticism.

Actually, the primary thing that worries me is rebounding. Our frontcourt will really need to step up their efforts on the glass in this series. I really hope Linas Kleiza gets 0 minutes and Karl will suck up his aversion to playing young players and give Balkman some minutes. I think he could really be helpful not only in rebounding, but also in defending Odom. Odom has a clear size advantage there, but I think Balk has the quickness, length and athleticism to bother him some. And Kleiza won't be able to do **** defensively against him anyways.

JayW_1023
05-18-2009, 05:30 AM
Actually, the primary thing that worries me is rebounding. Our frontcourt will really need to step up their efforts on the glass in this series. I really hope Linas Kleiza gets 0 minutes and Karl will suck up his aversion to playing young players and give Balkman some minutes. I think he could really be helpful not only in rebounding, but also in defending Odom. Odom has a clear size advantage there, but I think Balk has the quickness, length and athleticism to bother him some. And Kleiza won't be able to do **** defensively against him anyways.

The Nuggets are more physical on the boards than the Lakers...and they have length. I think it's funny how people get back on the Lakers bandwagon after yesterdays win, despite them not proving once this postseason they can win a closely contested game.

The Nuggets will at least put them to the test. Even in the games where LA has won convincingly...against the Nuggets, such erratic shot selection will get them killed. Thanks to Chauncey, meanwhile the Nuggets are much more balanced offensively.

Chauncey Billups pretty much owned CP3 and Jason Kidd last series...I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of Fisher and Farmar...who made Aaron Brooks look like a perennial All-star at times.

Chronz
05-18-2009, 05:32 AM
Dude, Dirk was absolutely beasting it up for big stretches of most games, but the simple truth is that he failed miserably down the stretch of nearly every game he played against the Nuggets in their series.
Den I like ya, but nah thats not what happened. Its not failing miserably if youve been a major force in the game and forcing the defense to react to your movement. He may not have scored but he no doubt played a huge role in who did, Ill admit he had a few bad showings in the first game but once he got settled in it was over. Every time they went to Dirk the team ended up with the best % shot. If your expectations of 1 player is to achieve something beyond reason I cant help to feel your being biased.

Hes already averaging 34Pts on ya with alot of single coverage but hes taking the doubles down the stretch and just surveying the defense beautifully, (that spin move then fake on Birdman for the and1 was something you wont see again these playoffs). There is very little room for improved play on his part down the stretch of games. If hes the best player in the series, and he outplayed everyone, you cant say he was MIA. Facts are he was basically the sole reason Dallas scored any points in the 4th.

Keep things in perspective, if Dirk was on a team like the Nuggets he would be able to escape his non efficient nights like Billups and Melo have throughout the course of these playoffs. They played worse down the stretch of games in which their teams won, than Dirk played down the stretch in the series. Dirk doesnt have the luxury of saving everything for the last period.


The bottom line:


MIN PTS PTS/MIN
End of games 1,2,3,5 25 5 .200
The rest 183 167 .913

Statistically speaking, I know for a fact that if your going to extrapolate such small possession samples you need to work with the complete possession count, and I also know that somewhere in your sample lies a few trips to the line and playmaking opportunities, no doubt turnovers as well. But subjectively, the bottom line is that there is only so much 1 man can do. Account for where the player is at in his career and set your expectations from that. If this were prime Dirk, I woudlve somewhat understood, but hes past the point in his career where he demands a double team every time or else its a bucket.


So yeah, hell yes he disappeared in 4th quarters against the Nuggets. And that had everything to do, imho, with him getting exhausted by the Nuggets' physical defense that forced him to work pretty damn hard for his points.
That would happen to anyone who was forced to carry such a burden, it doesnt outweight the impact that burden has on the numbers down the stretch of games. Very few teams have ever won series at this stage with anyone being the lone option, and Im willing to bet in the totality of that series, the player that lost saw his stats down the stretch of games so south. Its the result of being on a losing team, all you can do is judge the player by what his options were. In this case Dirk made all the right plays, his teammates didnt.

Dont let a few possessions down the stretch of the game count for everything, its a myth that 1 player can close a game if its close enough. How much the player has contributed throughout, and the coaching changes during the course of the game have already made an impact on the thought process of everyone involved within it. Every shot a player misses makes it that much harder for 1 player to dominate, and in Dirks case he had alot of missers and hes no longer capable of forcing a double team every possession. I give you credit for the defensive job you did on the Mavs, you forced alot of bad shots from players you wanted taking them, but not because you locked Dirk down. Dirk made the right play everytime, you dont get MIA label for making the right call.

JayW_1023
05-18-2009, 05:47 AM
After this series, Danthay Jones will generally be the most hated player on these forums. Mark these words.

Draco
05-18-2009, 05:52 AM
Hes already averaging 34Pts on ya with alot of single coverage but hes taking the doubles down the stretch and just surveying the defense beautifully, (that spin move then fake on Birdman for the and1 was something you wont see again these playoffs). There is very little room for improved play on his part down the stretch of games. If hes the best player in the series, and he outplayed everyone, you cant say he was MIA. Facts are he was basically the sole reason Dallas scored any points in the 4th.

I only watched 5 minutes of game 5 and have nothing to add except this article.


For Dallas, their offense centered on Dirk Nowitzki — 9-for-17, seven assists, 32 points. But he had a more difficult time than usual in one-on-one situations — mostly against K-Mart, and only once each against Melo and Nene. On his own, Nowtizki tallied seven free throws, one assist, had a turnover, and shot only 1-for-3. On the rare occasions when he was doubled, Nowtizki missed a layup, had an assist, committed a charge, and scored two points from the stripe.

Most of his points resulted from screen/pops run in conjunction with Jason Kidd. And in the last few minutes, when the game was at least theoretically up for grabs, Nowitzki was 0-for-3 from the field.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9573412/Denver's-offense-too-potent-for-Dallas

Draco
05-18-2009, 05:53 AM
After this series, Danthay Jones will generally be the most hated player on these forums. Mark these words.

Not by this guy. :D

brandt
05-18-2009, 07:33 AM
Nuggets in 7. Very easily could be in 6 but I voted 7. I picked the Lakers in 7against the Rockets, and i'm a Rockets fan. Very few people said Lakers in 7 against the Rockets. Nuggets are much more rested and pretty damn good at that, so the Lakers better not lollygag around this time.

holocaust227
05-18-2009, 08:16 AM
Even though I don't want the Lakers to win, I say Lakers in 6. The question that needs to be asked though is how much the Lakers want it. The Lakers undoubtedly has the best talent overall but the problem is their overall intensity is very inconsistent. If they don't bring it just like what happened with Houston, they're going to have problems. Kobe needs to push his guys to play harder. S**tty play from his teammates will kill them if he doesn't.

BenFrank
05-18-2009, 08:28 AM
Should be a good series.. Imma say Lakers in 7 - HCA

todu82
05-18-2009, 09:05 AM
Denver in 6.

Denver-boy
05-18-2009, 09:09 AM
If this was the old lakers (2006-2007) I'd say lakers... they just went to game seven with ROCKETS... Nuggets In Six, I look at the line-up... D.Jones and Martin have play hard on KOBE

lakerboy
05-18-2009, 09:22 AM
I'm just wondering,. If the Nuggets put Kenyon Martin on Kobe, who covers Gasol/Odom? Are you guys putting K-Mart on the 3?

DenButsu
05-18-2009, 09:36 AM
I'm just wondering,. If the Nuggets put Kenyon Martin on Kobe, who covers Gasol/Odom? Are you guys putting K-Mart on the 3?

I think at least initially, the Nugs starting 5 will cover the Lakers starting 5 position for position CB on Fish, Dahntay on Kobe, Melo on Ariza, K on Pau, and Nene on Bynum. Birdman and Odom should be stepping in at around the same time, so I'd guess he's Denver's cover for him.

roygconner
05-18-2009, 09:48 AM
I'm just wondering,. If the Nuggets put Kenyon Martin on Kobe, who covers Gasol/Odom? Are you guys putting K-Mart on the 3?

We will not put Martin on Kobe. Jones will be the man responsible for shutting him down, and when he goes out it will be JR. Who on the Lakers team is going to guard Melo, Nene, K-Mart, Billups, and JR? The Lakers didn't have the defenders to keep up with the Rockets what do you think is going to happen when they come up against the fire power that the Nuggets are going to bring? Nuggets in 5 maybe a sweep if the Lakers play at all like they did against the Rockets

AirJordan23
05-18-2009, 10:07 AM
Realistically, I don't think we'll win the series. I'll be optimistic and think we have a chance which we do but it all depends on how the lakers play. If they come out focused, aggresive and play top notch defense, it won't look too good for us. I know the Nugz will bring their A game offensively and defensively. So, it really depends on how LA performs. One thing I'll say is that LA won't win at Denver. They just can't match the energy of our crowd and the way we play. We're undefeated at the Pepsi center during the playoffs and all of our wins are blowouts. The crowd plays such a big factor and LA's play on the road hasn't been impressive at all.

Kobe would play a big role. Rockets were able to limit Kobe by having Battier and Artest forcing him out of the lane. And mainly, they had single coverage on him. That had an effect on Kobe's playmaking which was mainly ineffective. He was mainly a jumpshooter. Against us, unfortunately, he won't be. Jones is too small to guard him. He'll get under Kobe's skin but that's not always the good thing. And to be honest, I won't want KMart guarding him. He did a decent job last year but now that they have Bynum and Gasol, it won't work out. We'll be forced to double and trap Kobe leaving their shooters open. Unless Smith plays exceptional defense, he did a decent job on him last year. And his defense has improved this year, he's put more effort in and is focused.

Chauncey would have his way with Fisher. Fisher can't guard him in the post or stop him from penetrating. Walton has been known to get under Melo's skin for some reason. And he's not even a good defender. Hopefully, Melo has a breakout series. As much as I want to say the Nugz win, I think the Lakers would win in 7 provided they bring their A game. If they don't, Nugz in 6.

leftymo
05-18-2009, 10:09 AM
Nuggets have firepower, no doubt...

Lakers have more firepower...

Denver plays defense.

Lakers defense is better...

Lakers have homecourt...

The best player in this series is Kobe Bryant and denver has no cover for him...

The best team on the road are the Lakers...

It's a good thing Melo saves his worst games for the Lakers.

JR Smith & Chris Anderson will have a huge impact on this series, mostly in Denver's home games.

Luke Walton (probably one of the worst Lakers tore up Denver last year... it should be interesting how he does this time)

Raidaz4Life
05-18-2009, 10:33 AM
Lakers in 7

NoSense
05-18-2009, 11:02 AM
Picked the Nuggets in 7. It's going to be tighter games than the Dallas series, and LA won't be able to stand a team that is as good as them, with as much energy and motivation as the Rockets were (to counter the lack they had size wise)...

ManRam
05-18-2009, 11:29 AM
Now, I could be wrong, but I'm not. The reason people are jumping on the Nuggets bandwagon has very little to do with them all of the sudden falling in love with Denver. It has everything to do with their dislike of the Lakers. With Boston gone, and no other fanbase of the teams left of PSD being all that big, people are going to jump on board and root against the Lakers, because, well **** the Lakers, everybody hates em.

I think for the most part, very little of it has to do with actually evaluating it from a basketball standpoint, and just hating the Lakers. Not all of it, but most definitely a lot of the bandwagon jumping has to do with that over any other reason.

Orr....

The fact that they beat the Hornets in 5 and the Mavs in 5...scoring under 100 points once. Their margin of victory if 16 points, twice that of the Lakers.

Maybe it's the fact that the Lakers are the most bipolar and inconsistent team left in the playoffs.

Maybe it's because they look like the toughest team in the league. Maybe it's because they have a proven winner in Billups, and an amazing scorer in Melo. Maybe it's because they have great size upfront, and the best bench left in the playoffs.


But you're right...it's probably just because everyone hates the Lakers. Here we go again win the us vs. the world attitude, and the superiority complex. If you aren't picking the Lakers, you are just a hater or an idiot. I see...

DenButsu
05-18-2009, 11:42 AM
At the end of the day, I think it's just because the Nuggets are so damn irresistible and lovable that people just can't help but jump on the bandwagon.

And because of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD7YXZL8yBM).

avsman05
05-18-2009, 11:52 AM
Nuggets have firepower, no doubt...

Lakers have more firepower...

Denver plays defense.

Lakers defense is better...

Lakers have homecourt...

The best player in this series is Kobe Bryant and denver has no cover for him...

The best team on the road are the Lakers...

It's a good thing Melo saves his worst games for the Lakers.

JR Smith & Chris Anderson will have a huge impact on this series, mostly in Denver's home games.

Luke Walton (probably one of the worst Lakers tore up Denver last year... it should be interesting how he does this time)

You really didn't watch to many Nuggets games this post season have you?

Sly Guy
05-18-2009, 12:05 PM
I don't see the nuggs winning a game 7 in LA, but I have them ahead in the series by that point. I just like the way the Nuggets are playing on both ends of the floor. Nuggs in 6.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 12:08 PM
Nuggets have firepower, no doubt...

Lakers have more firepower...

In the playoffs, Nuggets score 111.5 a game, lakers score 101.5.

Right now, with everyone healthy, the Nuggets are the best offensive team in the league. Carmelo is scoring just as much as Kobe, Chauncey is a better second option than any Laker, JR Smith's per 48 points are off the charts, and from there on down the Nuggets get better offensive production player by player.


Denver plays defense.

Lakers defense is better...

Sure convinced me there. Any evidence? The playoff stats look pretty damn identical...and I'll argue that New Orleans and Dallas are far better offensive teams than the Jazz and Rockets. I'd also argue that Denver is a lot more tough.


Lakers have homecourt...

True, and that's definitely very significant...especially considering the Lakers' playoff road woes. If the Nuggets win one of the first 2, I like their chances. Their home court advantage is better than the Rockets'.


The best player in this series is Kobe Bryant and denver has no cover for him...

He is the best player in the series, but not by as wide of a margin as the other two Laker series. And the Nuggets have plenty of options to guard him. None are amazing, but they can throw a ton of different things at Kobe.


The best team on the road are the Lakers...

...in the regular season. The worst team in the road in the playoffs are the Lakers. Throw the regular season out the door, it's playoff time. Everything changes. Heart and toughness wins playoff games, not talent.


It's a good thing Melo saves his worst games for the Lakers.

22/6/4 isn't horrible. Sure, it's not great, but we'll see how he does now. He's playing his best basketball in two years, or perhaps ever.


JR Smith & Chris Anderson will have a huge impact on this series, mostly in Denver's home games.

Why not in road games?


Luke Walton (probably one of the worst Lakers tore up Denver last year... it should be interesting how he does this time)

Who cares about last year. This year he's average 3.5 points. Last year means even less than the regular season this year means. Both mean little at all.

what54!?
05-18-2009, 12:44 PM
At the end of the day, I think it's just because the Nuggets are so damn irresistible and lovable that people just can't help but jump on the bandwagon.

And because of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD7YXZL8yBM).
gotta love those nuggets

still1ballin
05-18-2009, 01:46 PM
In the playoffs, Nuggets score 111.5 a game, lakers score 101.5.

Right now, with everyone healthy, the Nuggets are the best offensive team in the league. Carmelo is scoring just as much as Kobe, Chauncey is a better second option than any Laker, JR Smith's per 48 points are off the charts, and from there on down the Nuggets get better offensive production player by player.



Sure convinced me there. Any evidence? The playoff stats look pretty damn identical...and I'll argue that New Orleans and Dallas are far better offensive teams than the Jazz and Rockets. I'd also argue that Denver is a lot more tough.



True, and that's definitely very significant...especially considering the Lakers' playoff road woes. If the Nuggets win one of the first 2, I like their chances. Their home court advantage is better than the Rockets'.



He is the best player in the series, but not by as wide of a margin as the other two Laker series. And the Nuggets have plenty of options to guard him. None are amazing, but they can throw a ton of different things at Kobe.



...in the regular season. The worst team in the road in the playoffs are the Lakers. Throw the regular season out the door, it's playoff time. Everything changes. Heart and toughness wins playoff games, not talent.



22/6/4 isn't horrible. Sure, it's not great, but we'll see how he does now. He's playing his best basketball in two years, or perhaps ever.



Why not in road games?



Who cares about last year. This year he's average 3.5 points. Last year means even less than the regular season this year means. Both mean little at all.

Who plays more defense, Dallas or Houston?:eyebrow:

fresh prince
05-18-2009, 01:52 PM
The regular season is the regular season. The playoffs are a whole different specimen...where mental toughness become more important than skill.

And saying "when the Lakers care, they are the best" isn't a good thing. Who is to say they'll care more this series than last series? They are both mentally soft, and physically softer than the Nuggets. That's bad news in the playoffs. Getting blown out twice on the road vs. the Rockets is enough for me to question their ability on the road. If you want to overlook it, so be it. I don't.

And I'm not so certain that "when they care" they really are the best. That's why the games are played...

You hit on the head...As a Laker fan this is really disturbing. There does not seem to be any sense of urgency or real fight in this team RIGHT NOW.

Maybe its a result of playing down to the competition or being overly confident against the Rox..If they come out with the same blase attitude against Denver they will lose this series. And as a Laker fan I have no reason to believe that will change until I see it.

It's hard to root for a team when at times you feel like you care about winning more than they do! But as die hard Laker fans I guess this is what we are stuck with.

My heart says Lakers in 6 but my mind says Nuggets in 6

fresh prince
05-18-2009, 01:57 PM
And because of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD7YXZL8yBM).

:clap:

ManRam
05-18-2009, 02:04 PM
Who plays more defense, Dallas or Houston?:eyebrow:

The Mavs. But...they've played two series.

The Nuggets played the Hornets (#3 in the West in PA) and the Mavs (#7).
The Lakers played the Jazz (#8 in the west in PA) and the Rockets (#4).

They've played comparable defenses...at least statistically. So their point allowed in the playoffs isn't skewed much.

I stand by my word. The Nuggets have been the better offensive team.

Hawkeye15
05-18-2009, 02:08 PM
Nuggets in 6

leftymo
05-18-2009, 02:15 PM
You really didn't watch to many Nuggets games this post season have you?

the self imploding hornets and the mentally weak mavericks?


LA was 6-1 against those teams this year...

Kings Faithful
05-18-2009, 02:16 PM
Nuggets in 6

The Lakers are good but the Nuggets with Billups have to many offensive weapons. During the Houston series the Lakers biggest problem was defense...unless Denver shoots like Ron Artest for the entire series I don't think the Lakers can defend them.

gauth25
05-18-2009, 02:18 PM
I'm taking the Nuggets in 6. I think the Nuggets have just as much, if not more offensive power as the Lakers. But more importantly, they are extremely tough and rugged. They are a physical team, led by one of the most clutch players of all time, and one of the best leaders of all time. I think they are mentally tougher too.

I also like Denver's defense more, and their bench more.

Kobe's going to have to be the difference maker. Pau and Bynum will have a much tougher time vs. tough BIG big men. No 6-6 centers here. Kenyon and Anderson are premiere defenders.

Should be an epic series...but I like the Nuggets. All they have to do is win one on the road...and I think they can.

More offensive power? You must be insane. No one has as much fire power as the Lakers do. This series will be completely different from the Lakers stand point from the last one. They know what Denver has and they will take them seriously. You saw when the Lakers want to play, they play and you won't stop them.

leftymo
05-18-2009, 02:26 PM
In the playoffs, Nuggets score 111.5 a game, lakers score 101.5.

The Rockets are and were better than Dallas & NO easily...




Right now, with everyone healthy, the Nuggets are the best offensive team in the league. Carmelo is scoring just as much as Kobe, Chauncey is a better second option than any Laker, JR Smith's per 48 points are off the charts, and from there on down the Nuggets get better offensive production player by player.

You haven't faced a defense yet. Melo saves his worst games for the Lakers, look it up. He's shooting 32% against LA. LA finished 82 games as a better offensive team in the NBA. Pau Gasol is all NBA 3rd team. Chauncey isn't.






Sure convinced me there. Any evidence? The playoff stats look pretty damn identical...and I'll argue that New Orleans and Dallas are far better offensive teams than the Jazz and Rockets. I'd also argue that Denver is a lot more tough.

Denver is tough. LA is bigger. They outweigh the Nuggets, they are younger than the Nuggets. LA has two 7 footers, that play inside. Denver doesn't. Neither do NO or Dallas for that matter.




True, and that's definitely very significant...especially considering the Lakers' playoff road woes. If the Nuggets win one of the first 2, I like their chances. Their home court advantage is better than the Rockets'.

The Denver Nuggets are 2-19 against the Lakers all time in Staples Center. They were a barely .500 team on the road this season, they have faced zero adversity in these playoffs, Denver has never been this far and lack experience. They are outcoached, outsized, outtalented, and don't have HCA.




He is the best player in the series, but not by as wide of a margin as the other two Laker series. And the Nuggets have plenty of options to guard him. None are amazing, but they can throw a ton of different things at Kobe.

Its a wide margin. I'll take the player in his prime over one that isn't everyday of the week and especially in the playoffs.




...in the regular season. The worst team in the road in the playoffs are the Lakers. Throw the regular season out the door, it's playoff time. Everything changes. Heart and toughness wins playoff games, not talent.

The WORST? Are you sure about that? You mean of the teams remaining? I guess that is true. But just like the 99-00 Lakers or the 07-08 Celtics, struggling through to the title is a good way to go. Nuggets have done nothing to prove they are better than the Lakers.

superkegger
05-18-2009, 02:28 PM
Orr....

The fact that they beat the Hornets in 5 and the Mavs in 5...scoring under 100 points once. Their margin of victory if 16 points, twice that of the Lakers.

Maybe it's the fact that the Lakers are the most bipolar and inconsistent team left in the playoffs.

Maybe it's because they look like the toughest team in the league. Maybe it's because they have a proven winner in Billups, and an amazing scorer in Melo. Maybe it's because they have great size upfront, and the best bench left in the playoffs.


But you're right...it's probably just because everyone hates the Lakers. Here we go again win the us vs. the world attitude, and the superiority complex. If you aren't picking the Lakers, you are just a hater or an idiot. I see...

I didn't say everyone who wasn't a denver fan before and is now rooting for them is automatically a Lakers hater. Open your god damn eyes and read. I said a good number of them simply don't like the Lakers. Not all of them. And if you're really going to tell me that none of the people picking the nuggets are doing so because they just simply dislike the Lakers you're a damn fool.

leftymo
05-18-2009, 02:29 PM
Nuggets in 6

The Lakers are good but the Nuggets with Billups have to many offensive weapons. During the Houston series the Lakers biggest problem was defense...unless Denver shoots like Ron Artest for the entire series I don't think the Lakers can defend them.

All of LA's wins were double digit victories. 40 point blowouts. It's a good thing that LA has owned Denver over the past few years and there's nothing Denver is going to do that will suprise LA.

2-19 at Staples is pathetic.

bahama0811
05-18-2009, 02:29 PM
the self imploding hornets and the mentally weak mavericks?


LA was 6-1 against those teams this year...

So, I guess that's a no

leftymo
05-18-2009, 02:32 PM
Billups has a pretty strong advantage on Fisher... for whatever reason Melo plays awful against the Lakers. I'm not sure why but he just does.

But Kobe on Jones and Pau on 6'8" Kenyon Martin is the #1 reason why Denver loses this series. Those are HUGE matchups that heavily favor Los Angeles.

leftymo
05-18-2009, 02:34 PM
So, I guess that's a no


Unless the Nuggets signed Dwight Howard & Lebron James, they aren't better than the Lakers.

bahama0811
05-18-2009, 02:38 PM
Unless the Nuggets signed Dwight Howard & Lebron James, they aren't better than the Lakers.

It makes it pretty hard to predict a series when all you know about one of the teams is what you read on paper. K-Mart is one of the best low post defenders in the league but you wouldn't know that cuz you haven't seen the Nuggets.

Fire Girardi
05-18-2009, 02:47 PM
It makes it pretty hard to predict a series when all you know about one of the teams is what you read on paper. K-Mart is one of the best low post defenders in the league but you wouldn't know that cuz you haven't seen the Nuggets.

lol from what i was seein dirk was scoring like 30 on him in every game so what u just said makes no sense, just bc the lakers played like **** in 2 games against the rockets every one thinks they suck

leftymo
05-18-2009, 02:49 PM
It makes it pretty hard to predict a series when all you know about one of the teams is what you read on paper. K-Mart is one of the best low post defenders in the league but you wouldn't know that cuz you haven't seen the Nuggets.


At 6'8" he has always struggled against Pau Gasol. As a Laker fan we know what Kmart gives. He played for the Nets as an allstar if you forgot.

NBA League Pass is something I owned this year.

As a nugget fan, you'd know that Denver uses Kmart on Kobe Bryant b/c Denver has nobody to guard him.

I've seen 11 games between the Lakers & Nuggets over the last 2 years, and seen 10 Nugget losses. A team definitely on the rise, but one that finished close to 10 games behind the Lakers if not more. A team that doesn't have the size to compete with LA but definitely has the strength.

It lacks experience, its best player isn't in his prime yet and never been this far. A team that plays very good team defense and great offense, but just a little less than the Lakers.

Denver has three advantages on the Lakers. 1. They are playing good ball right now 2. Chauncey Billups has a strong advantage 3. Denver plays great on their home court.

Pretty much everything else, goes to LA. A team on a mission to win a title. Denver will be earning their playoff scars this year. Which means next year will be pretty good for Denver. This year its the Lakers year. It could be one of their best teams all time and we're talking about a franchise with 29 finals appearances and 14 championships.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 02:52 PM
The Rockets are and were better than Dallas & NO easily...

False. Hornets were 3rd in the West in points allowed. The Rockets were 4th, and a large part of that was Yao and Deke. Dallas was also better than Utah. Statistically, the Nuggets faced better defenses overall. Can't argue stats can you?


You haven't faced a defense yet. Melo saves his worst games for the Lakers, look it up. He's shooting 32% against LA. LA finished 82 games as a better offensive team in the NBA. Pau Gasol is all NBA 3rd team. Chauncey isn't.

I haven't? First off, I don't play for the Nuggets. Secondly, I'm not a Nuggets fan. Third, look at the stats, and my comment above. The Nugs have faced better defenses in the playoffs statistically. Yes, the Lakers were better by about two points. But this Nuggets team has not been nearly as healthy as the Lakers all year. Again, all that matters is now. The Nuggets have been scoring more points, and I think they have more play makers. We'll see who's right. And Chauncey was third team...so...yeah....also finished higher in the MVP voting.


Denver is tough. LA is bigger. They outweigh the Nuggets, they are younger than the Nuggets. LA has two 7 footers, that play inside. Denver doesn't. Neither do NO or Dallas for that matter.

And Houston and the Jazz play smaller than the Nuggets do, especially without Yao. It will be the toughest test so far for both teams...not just Denver.


The Denver Nuggets are 2-19 against the Lakers all time in Staples Center. They were a barely .500 team on the road this season, they have faced zero adversity in these playoffs, Denver has never been this far and lack experience. They are outcoached, outsized, outtalented, and don't have HCA.

All time stats are dumb. All that matters is these two teams, right now. Who cares how the Nuggets did 5 years ago? Billups, lack of experience? Kenyon Martin, lack of experience? Carmelo has won a college championship, which is not an easy thing to do. This team is mentally tough. Experience or not (they have plenty), they will be fine. And yeah, The Zen Master did a great coaching job last series. I'm also pretty sure Karl finished ahead of your boy in the Coach of the Year voting. He's not a bad coach, at all.


Its a wide margin. I'll take the player in his prime over one that isn't everyday of the week and especially in the playoffs.

A wide margin was the last 4 games vs. the Rockets...which your Lakers went
2-2. What players are you talking about? Chauncey's not in his prime? He's been far more consistent these playoffs than Kobe.


The WORST? Are you sure about that? You mean of the teams remaining? I guess that is true. But just like the 99-00 Lakers or the 07-08 Celtics, struggling through to the title is a good way to go. Nuggets have done nothing to prove they are better than the Lakers.

The Celtics didn't have the mental hiccups this Laker team has. This is a matter of will. And when will is the problem, you have a huge problem.

I'm glad your opinions supersede the facts. The only way you'll ever convince anyone anything is to use facts. Try it.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 02:56 PM
I didn't say everyone who wasn't a denver fan before and is now rooting for them is automatically a Lakers hater. Open your god damn eyes and read. I said a good number of them simply don't like the Lakers. Not all of them. And if you're really going to tell me that none of the people picking the nuggets are doing so because they just simply dislike the Lakers you're a damn fool.

Read your post. Sure, you didn't say all...but you made it clear you feel that hate is the reason people are picking the Nuggets, not based on the fact that they've played better basketball lately...which is laughable.


Now, I could be wrong, but I'm not. The reason people are jumping on the Nuggets bandwagon has very little to do with them all of the sudden falling in love with Denver. It has everything to do with their dislike of the Lakers. With Boston gone, and no other fanbase of the teams left of PSD being all that big, people are going to jump on board and root against the Lakers, because, well **** the Lakers, everybody hates em.

I think for the most part, very little of it has to do with actually evaluating it from a basketball standpoint, and just hating the Lakers. Not all of it, but most definitely a lot of the bandwagon jumping has to do with that over any other reason.

Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate.

It's us vs. the world if you're a Laker fan I guess. This is the reason why any Laker haters hate the Lakers. Because of their superiority complex and ridiculous us vs. the world attitude. Hate us or love us. You're either are a Laker fan or you're wrong.

bahama0811
05-18-2009, 03:23 PM
At 6'8" he has always struggled against Pau Gasol. As a Laker fan we know what Kmart gives. He played for the Nets as an allstar if you forgot.

NBA League Pass is something I owned this year.

As a nugget fan, you'd know that Denver uses Kmart on Kobe Bryant b/c Denver has nobody to guard him.

I've seen 11 games between the Lakers & Nuggets over the last 2 years, and seen 10 Nugget losses. A team definitely on the rise, but one that finished close to 10 games behind the Lakers if not more. A team that doesn't have the size to compete with LA but definitely has the strength.

It lacks experience, its best player isn't in his prime yet and never been this far. A team that plays very good team defense and great offense, but just a little less than the Lakers.

Denver has three advantages on the Lakers. 1. They are playing good ball right now 2. Chauncey Billups has a strong advantage 3. Denver plays great on their home court.

Pretty much everything else, goes to LA. A team on a mission to win a title. Denver will be earning their playoff scars this year. Which means next year will be pretty good for Denver. This year its the Lakers year. It could be one of their best teams all time and we're talking about a franchise with 29 finals appearances and 14 championships.

It really is great that you had league pass but it doesn't sound like you've seen any Nuggets post season basketball. The Nuggets team of this years playoffs is completely different from any Nuggets team of years past.

I don't really see K-Mart playing much D on Kobe. It's probably gonna be a combo of Dahntay and J.R. Smith. And you'd better hope that the Lakers can handle the physical play of the Nuggs. The Lakers are an extremely soft team and the Nuggets are gonna make them very uncomfortable.

Chronz
05-18-2009, 03:25 PM
I only watched 5 minutes of game 5 and have nothing to add except this article.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9573412/Denver's-offense-too-potent-for-Dallas

Rosen does a good job of analyzing entire games, but the doubling and trapping happened every 4th quarter of every game after Dallas won 1 and nearly won the 2nd. Throughout most of the series he was played alot of one on one, and he torched them.

Gibby23
05-18-2009, 03:29 PM
It really is great that you had league pass but it doesn't sound like you've seen any Nuggets post season basketball. The Nuggets team of this years playoffs is completely different from any Nuggets team of years past.

I don't really see K-Mart playing much D on Kobe. It's probably gonna be a combo of Dahntay and J.R. Smith. And you'd better hope that the Lakers can handle the physical play of the Nuggs. The Lakers are an extremely soft team and the Nuggets are gonna make them very uncomfortable.

K Mart can not guard Pau and Nene hasn't had to guard anyone this whole post season. Pau and Bynum will make Nene work on D and he and Martin will get exposed because they are not big enough. The Lakers maybe soft, but so are the Nuggets, they have guys that act tough but LA's bigs will own Denver's bigs.

bahama0811
05-18-2009, 03:32 PM
lol from what i was seein dirk was scoring like 30 on him in every game so what u just said makes no sense, just bc the lakers played like **** in 2 games against the rockets every one thinks they suck

K wasn't playing Dirk a whole lot. It was a group effort. Dirk is a great scorer and is a little too tall for K-Mart. Most of the points Dirk got were fade-away jumpers that were contested. K played pretty good D on Dirk and most of it was one-on-one with no help. K-Mart totally shut down David West in the 1st round vs. the Hornets.

The Lakers played like crap the 2 games they lost to the Rockets. What's to say that won't happen again. The Lakers are a schizophrenic team and if they don't get it together they're gonna have problems.

Gibby23
05-18-2009, 03:33 PM
K wasn't playing Dirk a whole lot. It was a group effort. Dirk is a great scorer and is a little too tall for K-Mart. Most of the points Dirk got were fade-away jumpers that were contested. K played pretty good D on Dirk and most of it was one-on-one with no help. K-Mart totally shut down David West in the 1st round vs. the Hornets.

The Lakers played like crap the 2 games they lost to the Rockets. What's to say that won't happen again. The Lakers are a schizophrenic team and if they don't get it together they're gonna have problems.

And if they do get it together?

Hawkeye15
05-18-2009, 03:58 PM
IMO, the Nuggets are playing at a very high level right now. They are peaking at the right time. The Lakers pure indifference every other game will kill them in this series. You can't just flip a switch. Last year, Boston was playing together for the first time, they ran into a matchup problem round 1 while they figured out what kind of playoff team they were, then met the best player in the world in round 2. They played hard and focused though. The Lakers have been together since the midpoint of last season. They don't play defense consistently. Denver is hot right now, and on paper, LA still looks better. But they are not playing well every time they step on the floor, and they have finally run into team that can make them pay for not showing up every night.
Denver in 6

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 04:08 PM
IMO, the Nuggets are playing at a very high level right now. They are peaking at the right time. The Lakers pure indifference every other game will kill them in this series. You can't just flip a switch. Last year, Boston was playing together for the first time, they ran into a matchup problem round 1 while they figured out what kind of playoff team they were, then met the best player in the world in round 2. They played hard and focused though. The Lakers have been together since the midpoint of last season. They don't play defense consistently. Denver is hot right now, and on paper, LA still looks better. But they are not playing well every time they step on the floor, and they have finally run into team that can make them pay for not showing up every night.
Denver in 6

They didn't play the Lakers until the Finals.

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 04:13 PM
In the playoffs, Nuggets score 111.5 a game, lakers score 101.5.

You do realize the Nuggets played defensive powerhouses in NO and Dallas while LA played terrible defensive teams in Utah and Houston right? :rolleyes: I'd gladly take 102 against Houston/Utah than 112 against NO/Dallas.

tr4shb0t
05-18-2009, 04:13 PM
Nuggets main disadvantage is that their team color is baby blue...makes them look weaksauce.

Fool
05-18-2009, 04:18 PM
Lakers in 6 or 7.

People are jumping onto the Nuggets bandwagon (in the process of jumping off of the Lakers) way too fast. Lakers road to this point was more tough, IMO.

what54!?
05-18-2009, 04:18 PM
Nuggets main disadvantage is that their team color is baby blue...makes them look weaksauce.
and purple and gold is much more hard :rolleyes:

Hawkeye15
05-18-2009, 04:26 PM
They didn't play the Lakers until the Finals.

the Lakers don't have the best player in the NBA brutha

ManRam
05-18-2009, 04:26 PM
You do realize the Nuggets played defensive powerhouses in NO and Dallas while LA played terrible defensive teams in Utah and Houston right? :rolleyes: I'd gladly take 102 against Houston/Utah than 112 against NO/Dallas.

Of course you would, you're a Laker fan. But seriously...how many times do I have to write this...

Regular season points allowed per game

New Orleans: 94.3 (#3 in the West)
Dallas: 99.8 (#7 in the West)

Utah: 100.9 (#8 in the West)
Houston: 94.4 (#4 in the West)

So the Nuggets faced the #3 and #7 best, and the Lakers faced the #4 and #8. Utah was also 28th in the league in opponents FG%. Not much a difference at all...actually, statistically, I think the Nuggets played the better defensive teams.

Dallas really bought into defense this year...guys like Kidd, Howard, Wright, Bass, Barea, Dampier etc. are all tough defenders. They aren't your defensive inept MAvs of the past.

So I'll take the Nuggets 112 over the Lakers 102 in a heartbeat.

Hawkeye15
05-18-2009, 04:30 PM
Lakers in 6 or 7.

People are jumping onto the Nuggets bandwagon (in the process of jumping off of the Lakers) way too fast. Lakers road to this point was more tough, IMO.

really? A Houston team that had $35 million off their payroll on the bench when they spanked the Lakers in game 6 and took them to game 7 is better than the Mavs?? ok.
I will give you Utah over NO, but the reason many are picking Denver is because they are hot, and they show up and play consistently. The Lakers do not. If the Rockets, without Ming, McGrady, and Deke, can crush the Lakers in a playoff game, what are a healthy Melo, Billups, Smith, etc. gonna do? Most are not hating on the lakers. I simply saw what I needed to in order to make my guess as to what will happen in this series. Any Laker fan out there knows, if they show up and play the way they did against Utah or Houston, they are going home.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 04:30 PM
Lakers in 6 or 7.

People are jumping onto the Nuggets bandwagon (in the process of jumping off of the Lakers) way too fast. Lakers road to this point was more tough, IMO.

Seriously??? The Lakers were the one-seed. They have the easiest road. They played the worst playoff team in the West, and 4 games vs. the Rockets without Yao. The Lakers road has been easier...every way you look at it...whether it be record-wise, talent-wise, star power...

Care to explain why you think it's been tougher??? Because they allowed the Rockets to blow them out on the road??? That doesn't mean they played tougher teams.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 04:33 PM
really? A Houston team that had $35 million off their payroll on the bench when they spanked the Lakers in game 6 and took them to game 7 is better than the Mavs?? ok.
I will give you Utah over NO, but the reason many are picking Denver is because they are hot, and they show up and play consistently. The Lakers do not. If the Rockets, without Ming, McGrady, and Deke, can crush the Lakers in a playoff game, what are a healthy Melo, Billups, Smith, etc. gonna do? Most are not hating on the lakers. I simply saw what I needed to in order to make my guess as to what will happen in this series. Any Laker fan out there knows, if they show up and play the way they did against Utah or Houston, they are going home.

Well said. Agree with everything. That's exactly why I jumped of the band wagon. Not because I'm "hate the Lakers", but because the Nuggets are unquestionably (unless you are a Laker fan), playing better basketball right now. There is no way you can create a sound argument convincing me otherwise.

Hawkeye15
05-18-2009, 04:35 PM
Well said. Agree with everything. That's exactly why I jumped of the band wagon. Not because I'm "hate the Lakers", but because the Nuggets are unquestionably (unless you are a Laker fan), playing better basketball right now. There is no way you can create a sound argument convincing me otherwise.

don't hold you're breath waiting for validity from a Laker fan. You will turn purple and die

macc
05-18-2009, 04:48 PM
I don't know who will win the series, breaking down the match ups they seem about as even as you can get so really it's a coin flip at this stage. Gasol is really the X factor for the Lakers and Nene is the Xfactor for the Nuggets. Whoever wins that matchup to me will prob win the series. Nene was at the top, or close to it for fg% during the regular season.

I can see the Lakers getting lots of easy trasistion buckets and put backs with Gasol and Bynum on the glass. Even moreso with Smith shooting 3's early in the shot clock and the long rebounds continuing into more transition buckets. Plus Odom is a good rebounder so that will help them in their second chance points as well.

In the end it's tough to say who's going to win. I'm gonna have to say Lakers in 6 mainly because they have been more consistant in the regular season and won as many games as they did. I think we still haven't seen them at their best yet this post season.

Plus Denver beat NO and Dallas, NO had injuries and Dallas is just Dallas, for some reason they just can't win in the playoffs, I liked Dirk but he didn't have any help so it was basically Dirk vs the Nuggets where the Nuggets won fairly easily.


Lakers in 6.
I think the key with Denver is slowing down Gasol with the defense of Nene and Martin, that will be huge.

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 04:53 PM
the Lakers don't have the best player in the NBA brutha

What did you smoke to convince yourself of that? :D Kobe is without a doubt the best player. He's the biggest offensive threat, he's one of the best man on man defenders and he's more clutch than anyone. It's not even close. LeBron is better at passing and rebounding, but he's a lot bigger, a forward and basically Cleveland's PG.


Of course you would, you're a Laker fan. But seriously...how many times do I have to write this...

Regular season points allowed per game

New Orleans: 94.3 (#3 in the West)
Dallas: 99.8 (#7 in the West)

Utah: 100.9 (#8 in the West)
Houston: 94.4 (#4 in the West)

So the Nuggets faced the #3 and #7 best, and the Lakers faced the #4 and #8. Utah was also 28th in the league in opponents FG%. Not much a difference at all...actually, statistically, I think the Nuggets played the better defensive teams.

Dallas really bought into defense this year...guys like Kidd, Howard, Wright, Bass, Barea, Dampier etc. are all tough defenders. They aren't your defensive inept MAvs of the past.

So I'll take the Nuggets 112 over the Lakers 102 in a heartbeat.

That was the regular season, which I keep hearing about. Plus, if anyone was asked with no stats who plays better defense, Houston/Utah would kill NO/Dallas. It's not all about PPG either. Utah has AK47, Harpring and Brewer to put on Kobe and Houston has Battier and Artest. NO would have to leave Posey on him the entire series as would Dallas and Howard.

Perl567
05-18-2009, 04:56 PM
Nuggets match up great against LA. Chauncey matches up with Fisher great, Melo matches up with Ariza great, Nene matches up with Gasol good, and the big one Kenyon Martin and Lamar Odom. Martin is a very good defender and the exact type of defender to give Odom problems plus the Nuggets can put up points with anybody. So the Nuggets are just as good offensively and better defensively which means the Nuggets win in 6 games.

Yup. Agreed. Nugs win in 6 games- Now that we don't have to put K-Mart on Kobe we will be that much better. As long as we can hold Kobe's cohorts to less than 20 ppg, we have it in the bag. If not- Nuggets in 7. If we can keep the Hornets' pick and roll in check (and if you didn't see it during the season, it was pretty lethal) I think we can handle Gasol/Kobe. Bynum is the x-factor, but he hasn't shown much as of late.

I think that Nene and Bird will get a ton of fouls but will be effective in the minutes they play. If they don't pile up the fouls, it will be a convincing victory.

yanksknicksgmen
05-18-2009, 04:58 PM
nuggets in 7. BEAT L.A BEAT L.A BEAT L.A

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 04:58 PM
and purple and gold is much more hard :rolleyes:

You do know it's the colors of kings and royalty right?

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 04:59 PM
Yup. Agreed. Nugs win in 6 games- Now that we don't have to put K-Mart on Kobe we will be that much better. As long as we can hold Kobe's cohorts to less than 20 ppg, we have it in the bag. If not- Nuggets in 7. If we can keep the Hornets' pick and roll in check (and if you didn't see it during the season, it was pretty lethal) I think we can handle Gasol/Kobe. Bynum is the x-factor, but he hasn't shown much as of late.

I think that Nene and Bird will get a ton of fouls but will be effective in the minutes they play. If they don't pile up the fouls, it will be a convincing victory.

Who do you think they'll put on him then? Jones will get murdered in the post, Melo doesn't play D and don't even say slow Chauncey.

superkegger
05-18-2009, 05:18 PM
Read your post. Sure, you didn't say all...but you made it clear you feel that hate is the reason people are picking the Nuggets, not based on the fact that they've played better basketball lately...which is laughable.



Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate.

It's us vs. the world if you're a Laker fan I guess. This is the reason why any Laker haters hate the Lakers. Because of their superiority complex and ridiculous us vs. the world attitude. Hate us or love us. You're either are a Laker fan or you're wrong.

Yeah, you're right, nobody hates the Lakers.

I mean, this poll (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359792) from a couple weeks ago means nothing. And while the Celtics did beat the Lakers in it, there were plenty of people who still said they hated the Lakers, just didn't hate them the most.

But I'm sure you're right. Nobody is picking denver because they dislike the Lakers. I bet all those votes are simply analysis of the teams play, nothing to do with a dislike of the Lakers.

Like I said before, not all of it is, but you're absolutely ****ing kidding yourself if you think all those votes are just people all of the sudden just realizing denver is playing well and really loving them, and it has nothing do with the fact that they're playing the Lakers.

I mean posts like this:


nuggets in 7. BEAT L.A BEAT L.A BEAT L.A

Really great analysis of the series there. Really shows he's just loving the nuggets, and probably has no dislike of LA right?

I mean, I know the Nuggets are so popular, which is why their last series thread attracted all of 140 posts and 59 votes, and their first round series thread, got 87 votes and 160 posts.




But, you know what. You're probably right, this is nothing more than a whole bunch of people who weren't all that interested before in the Nuggets have just all of the sudden fallen in love with them and can't get enough of the Nuggets.

I don't know what I was thinking, saying that people hate the Lakers, and that some of those voting were doing so because of a general disposition to dislike the Lakers. Gosh, I sure was way off on that one.


:rolleyes:

Fool
05-18-2009, 05:21 PM
Seriously??? The Lakers were the one-seed. They have the easiest road. They played the worst playoff team in the West, and 4 games vs. the Rockets without Yao. The Lakers road has been easier...every way you look at it...whether it be record-wise, talent-wise, star power...

Care to explain why you think it's been tougher??? Because they allowed the Rockets to blow them out on the road??? That doesn't mean they played tougher teams.

You can't just look at seeds and you can't just look on paper. Just because they have the #1 seed and played lower seeds doesn't mean that their series were more tough. That's a stupid thing to think.


don't hold you're breath waiting for validity from a Laker fan. You will turn purple and die

and that's exactly why Laker fans hate most other fans. Because the stereotypes are unbelievable.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 05:26 PM
That was the regular season, which I keep hearing about. Plus, if anyone was asked with no stats who plays better defense, Houston/Utah would kill NO/Dallas. It's not all about PPG either. Utah has AK47, Harpring and Brewer to put on Kobe and Houston has Battier and Artest. NO would have to leave Posey on him the entire series as would Dallas and Howard.

The name of the game is points. The best way to determine a great defense is to see how many points they allow...and regular season is the only way to determine it because of the large sample size. Who are the three best defensive teams?? Would you say Boston, Cleveland and San Antonio??? I would. Oh wow. Look. Those three have the lowest points allowed. Hmm...

Posey and Howard aren't slouches. Antoine Wright and Rasual Butler are known for their defense too. Plus, a lot of teams play this thing called team defense...it's not always one on one. Most teams double, and double effectively.

We can argue about stupid intricacies like this. Bottom line is they've played similar quality of defenses. You can't argue 82 games worth of stats. The 10 point playoff scoring differential is significant...no matter how you spin it. The Nuggets have been better offensively in the playoffs.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 05:29 PM
You can't just look at seeds and you can't just look on paper. Just because they have the #1 seed and played lower seeds doesn't mean that their series were more tough. That's a stupid thing to think.

Ok. I can't look at records. I can't look at stats. What can I look at??? Should I just listen to you? No one I've "debated" with here has provided anything but opinion. I'm trying to bring some empirical evidence. At least I'm trying. It's better than just forcing my opinion on someone and trying to convince them I'm right...without backing it up with anything....like some people.

What's a less "stupid" way to think. Just listen to you opinions and pretend they're facts? Bring some evidence. Back up your empty claims.

Gibby23
05-18-2009, 05:37 PM
George Karl has never beat the Lakers at Staples Center.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 05:41 PM
Yeah, you're right, nobody hates the Lakers.

I mean, this poll (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359792) from a couple weeks ago means nothing. And while the Celtics did beat the Lakers in it, there were plenty of people who still said they hated the Lakers, just didn't hate them the most.

But I'm sure you're right. Nobody is picking denver because they dislike the Lakers. I bet all those votes are simply analysis of the teams play, nothing to do with a dislike of the Lakers.

Like I said before, not all of it is, but you're absolutely ****ing kidding yourself if you think all those votes are just people all of the sudden just realizing denver is playing well and really loving them, and it has nothing do with the fact that they're playing the Lakers.

I mean posts like this:



Really great analysis of the series there. Really shows he's just loving the nuggets, and probably has no dislike of LA right?

I mean, I know the Nuggets are so popular, which is why their last series thread attracted all of 140 posts and 59 votes, and their first round series thread, got 87 votes and 160 posts.




But, you know what. You're probably right, this is nothing more than a whole bunch of people who weren't all that interested before in the Nuggets have just all of the sudden fallen in love with them and can't get enough of the Nuggets.

I don't know what I was thinking, saying that people hate the Lakers, and that some of those voting were doing so because of a general disposition to dislike the Lakers. Gosh, I sure was way off on that one.


:rolleyes:

I never said they weren't hated. Did I? You said hate was the reason most people are picking the Nuggets. I disagree 100%. Some people might pick the Nuggets because they hate the Lakers...but I doubt it's the majority. Listen to anyone on ESPN, TNT, FSN, your local news. It's no secret that the Lakers have looked weak at times. The Lakers are one of the most hated teams, duh. But I hate when Laker fans act like everyone is out to get them...and that if you aren't picking the Lakers, it's simply because you hate them. It gets old.

Why can't someone pick the Nuggets because they think they're better without being accused of being a hater? Maybe they actually are the better team?? Or maybe the even just think they are the better team...

And no, I don't think I'm kidding myself that people all of a sudden think the Nuggets are legit They've been the second best team in the playoffs behind the Cavs. What's to argue with picking them? They have played better basketball in the playoffs...which is why people are picking them. They've lost twice, the Lakers have lost 4 times...twice to a team with $30,000,000 sitting on the bench.

It's impossible to argue with some people here intellectually because they just assume things, don't care about stats or facts, think their opinions are right, and don't read what people write. You quote one person. Yay! That's one person. Read all the posts here why people are picking the Nuggets. You'll find a ton of sound reasoning as to why they are picking them. Try to get past your feeling that everyone just hates the Lakers. Maybe the Nuggets actually are the better team. We'll find out if all the "haters" get lucky or not and the Nuggets win.

It's called objectivity.

JayW_1023
05-18-2009, 05:43 PM
I never said they weren't hated. Did I? You said hate was the reason most people are picking the Nuggets. I disagree 100%. Some people might pick the Nuggets because they hate the Lakers...but I doubt it's the majority. Listen to anyone on ESPN, TNT, FSN, your local news. It's no secret that the Lakers have looked weak at times. The Lakers are one of the most hated teams, duh. But I hate when Laker fans act like everyone is out to get them...and that if you aren't picking the Lakers, it's simply because you hate them. It gets old.

Why can't someone pick the Nuggets because they think they're better without being accused of being a hater? Maybe they actually are the better team?? Or maybe the even just think they are the better team...

And no, I don't think I'm kidding myself that people all of a sudden think the Nuggets are legit They've been the second best team in the playoffs behind the Cavs. What's to argue with picking them? They have played better basketball in the playoffs...which is why people are picking them. They've lost twice, the Lakers have lost 4 times...twice to a team with $30,000,000 sitting on the bench.

It's impossible to argue with some people here intellectually because they just assume things, don't care about stats or facts, think their opinions are right, and don't read what people write. You quote one person. Yay! That's one person. Read all the posts here why people are picking the Nuggets. You'll find a ton of sound reasoning as to why they are picking them. Try to get past your feeling that everyone just hates the Lakers. Maybe the Nuggets actually are the better team. We'll find out if all the "haters" get lucky or not and the Nuggets win.

It's called objectivity.


Well spoken :clap:

championships
05-18-2009, 05:44 PM
Ok. I can't look at records. I can't look at stats. What can I look at??? Should I just listen to you? No one I've "debated" with here has provided anything but opinion. I'm trying to bring some empirical evidence. At least I'm trying. It's better than just forcing my opinion on someone and trying to convince them I'm right...without backing it up with anything....like some people.

What's a less "stupid" way to think. Just listen to you opinions and pretend they're facts? Bring some evidence. Back up your empty claims.

1st Round Lakers team played a team with a 48-34 record. ****Nuggets played a team with a record of 49-33. Then in the second round the Lakers had to play the fifth seed at 53-29. Denver somehow got the sixth seed at 50-32. Not my opinion, Facts.
http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

Fool
05-18-2009, 05:45 PM
What's a less "stupid" way to think. Just listen to you opinions and pretend they're facts? Bring some evidence. Back up your empty claims.

Both first round series were 5 gamers. If you look at point differentials:

Nuggets:

Sun 19 vs New Orleans First Round W 113-84
Wed 22 vs New Orleans First Round W 108-93
Sat 25 @ New Orleans First Round L 93-95
Mon 27 @ New Orleans First Round W 121-63
Wed 29 vs New Orleans First Round W 107-86

PD: 29, 15, -2, 58, 21

Lakers:

Sun 19 vs Utah First Round W 113-100
Tue 21 vs Utah First Round W 119-109
Thu 23 @ Utah First Round L 86-88
Sat 25 @ Utah First Round W 108-94
Mon 27 vs Utah First Round W 107-96

PD: 13, 10, -2, 14, 11

which games were closer? Which series was closer? Then look at the second series.

A seven game series, and a five game series.

Squad13
05-18-2009, 05:50 PM
Lakers played the Jazz (who nobody wanted to face in the first round) and a Houston team that matches up very well with them, say what you want but I believe the Lakers win this series in 6.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 05:58 PM
1st Round Lakers team played a team with a 48-34 record. ****Nuggets played a team with a record of 49-33. Then in the second round the Lakers had to play the fifth seed at 53-29. Denver somehow got the sixth seed at 50-32. Not my opinion, Facts.
http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

Exactly...that's extremely even competition...when you ignore the fact that 4 of those games came vs. a team without it's best players.

And fool...I've already broken down the difference in margin of victory between the two teams. The Nuggets score 112, allow 94.4. The Lakers score 102, allow 93.4. Advantage...Nuggets, by about 9 points.

The Lakers have lost 4 games. The Nuggets have lost 2. The Lakers have won all their games by double digits. The Nuggets have won all but two games by double digits. So in total, both teams have finished up by less than 10 points 4 times...except the Lakers lost all of those. Can they win a close game? We don't know.

If you want my non-"stupid" explanation for things...with stats and evidence, just check most of my posts. I never don't back up my claims with concrete evidence.

Gibby23
05-18-2009, 06:01 PM
Exactly...that's extremely even competition...when you ignore the fact that 4 of those games came vs. a team without it's best players.

And fool...I've already broken down the difference in margin of victory between the two teams. The Nuggets score 112, allow 94.4. The Lakers score 102, allow 93.4. Advantage...Nuggets, by about 9 points.

The Lakers have lost 4 games. The Nuggets have lost 2. The Lakers have won all their games by double digits. The Nuggets have won all but two games by double digits. So in total, both teams have finished up by less than 10 points 4 times...except the Lakers lost all of those. Can they win a close game? We don't know.

If you want my non-"stupid" explanation for things...with stats and evidence, just check most of my posts. I never don't back up my claims with concrete evidence.

Tose stats are cool, but it doesn't mean a thing if the Nuggets can't win in LA. When is the last time they won in LA? Look up the numbers Melo puts up against the Lakers and look up the head to head record over the last year or 2.

gauth25
05-18-2009, 06:05 PM
Exactly...that's extremely even competition...when you ignore the fact that 4 of those games came vs. a team without it's best players.

And fool...I've already broken down the difference in margin of victory between the two teams. The Nuggets score 112, allow 94.4. The Lakers score 102, allow 93.4. Advantage...Nuggets, by about 9 points.

The Lakers have lost 4 games. The Nuggets have lost 2. The Lakers have won all their games by double digits. The Nuggets have won all but two games by double digits. So in total, both teams have finished up by less than 10 points 4 times...except the Lakers lost all of those. Can they win a close game? We don't know.

If you want my non-"stupid" explanation for things...with stats and evidence, just check most of my posts. I never don't back up my claims with concrete evidence.

You really need to stop talking because some of the things you are saying are complete horseshit.

The Lakers played a healthy Jazz team that didn't have their full team together the whole year until late. Clearly have Boozer out along with Williams will hurt your PAs totals. Second, you can't talk about any team Denver faced having the defensive caliber players that Houston has. No one matches up to Artest and Battier when it comes to defending people. Ya the lakers lost 3 games but who cares. That series is over, the better team won. We all know they get lazy and that showed because they clearly thought Houston would bow down after Yao got hurt.

I'm going to tell you know, Denver is in for big trouble. When they Lakers know there's a challenge ahead, they won't be stopped, especially when they're 100% with everyone playing. Who's going to stop Kobe? No one on Denver can guard him. No one is going to stop Bynum or Pau and Odom runs wild on the Nuggets.

Just keep talking and when you see what happens, you'll wish you had shut your mouth.

Fool
05-18-2009, 06:06 PM
And fool...I've already broken down the difference in margin of victory between the two teams. The Nuggets score 112, allow 94.4. The Lakers score 102, allow 93.4. Advantage...Nuggets, by about 9 points.

The Lakers have lost 4 games. The Nuggets have lost 2. The Lakers have won all their games by double digits. The Nuggets have won all but two games by double digits. So in total, both teams have finished up by less than 10 points 4 times...except the Lakers lost all of those. Can they win a close game? We don't know.

If you want my non-"stupid" explanation for things...with stats and evidence, just check most of my posts. I never don't back up my claims with concrete evidence.

I'm just saying that the way you worded it, because the Lakers are the #1 seed and played lower seeds (8, 5 [4?] as opposed to 7,6 not that huge of a difference) that their road to was less hard. yes, on paper. but do you not believe that a 5 game series and a 7 game series were less hard than a 5 game series and a 5 game series? I understand that the Lakers have yet to prove that they can win close games, but they haven't necessarily needed to at this point. They will against Denver, I know that. But you're bringing stuff up that a) I already realize, fully and b) we weren't talking about.

PS, OT: remember last year during the playoffs when I voiced my disgust when LeBron walked off the court after loosing the series without shaking hands or hugging or anything? And you said that Kobe would do the same thing? He ended up hugging basically everyone on the Celtics. :p But that's a different story, a different time.

bigvdebo86
05-18-2009, 06:09 PM
go nuggets

championships
05-18-2009, 06:20 PM
Exactly...that's extremely even competition...when you ignore the fact that 4 of those games came vs. a team without it's best players.

And fool...I've already broken down the difference in margin of victory between the two teams. The Nuggets score 112, allow 94.4. The Lakers score 102, allow 93.4. Advantage...Nuggets, by about 9 points.

The Lakers have lost 4 games. The Nuggets have lost 2. The Lakers have won all their games by double digits. The Nuggets have won all but two games by double digits. So in total, both teams have finished up by less than 10 points 4 times...except the Lakers lost all of those. Can they win a close game? We don't know.

If you want my non-"stupid" explanation for things...with stats and evidence, just check most of my posts. I never don't back up my claims with concrete evidence.
I was just going by your record and numbers logic. By that the Lakers finished with a 65-17 record. Nuggets 54-28. By your records argument, The Lakers would wipe the Nuggets out. In that case you may say "Well the Nuggets are a better team now". Which I would agreee they have hit their peak at the right time. Grant it, The Rockets were without their two best players,but even so the Rockets are a far better defensive team than a full healthy Mavs team.

superkegger
05-18-2009, 06:20 PM
I never said they weren't hated. Did I? You said hate was the reason most people are picking the Nuggets. I disagree 100%. Some people might pick the Nuggets because they hate the Lakers...but I doubt it's the majority. Listen to anyone on ESPN, TNT, FSN, your local news. It's no secret that the Lakers have looked weak at times. The Lakers are one of the most hated teams, duh. But I hate when Laker fans act like everyone is out to get them...and that if you aren't picking the Lakers, it's simply because you hate them. It gets old.

Why can't someone pick the Nuggets because they think they're better without being accused of being a hater? Maybe they actually are the better team?? Or maybe the even just think they are the better team...

And no, I don't think I'm kidding myself that people all of a sudden think the Nuggets are legit They've been the second best team in the playoffs behind the Cavs. What's to argue with picking them? They have played better basketball in the playoffs...which is why people are picking them. They've lost twice, the Lakers have lost 4 times...twice to a team with $30,000,000 sitting on the bench.

It's impossible to argue with some people here intellectually because they just assume things, don't care about stats or facts, think their opinions are right, and don't read what people write. You quote one person. Yay! That's one person. Read all the posts here why people are picking the Nuggets. You'll find a ton of sound reasoning as to why they are picking them. Try to get past your feeling that everyone just hates the Lakers. Maybe the Nuggets actually are the better team. We'll find out if all the "haters" get lucky or not and the Nuggets win.

It's called objectivity.

Is this the objectivity and insight you were talking about:


go denver!!!


I got the nuggets in 7


I agree with the TNT crew "The lakers dont deserve to win the championship" And for exactly the same reasons. Nuggets in 6-7


Nuggets match up great against LA. Chauncey matches up with Fisher great, Melo matches up with Ariza great, Nene matches up with Gasol good, and the big one Kenyon Martin and Lamar Odom. Martin is a very good defender and the exact type of defender to give Odom problems plus the Nuggets can put up points with anybody. So the Nuggets are just as good offensively and better defensively which means the Nuggets win in 6 games.


nuggets in 7 for sure....lakers are strugglin


Denver in 6.


If this was the old lakers (2006-2007) I'd say lakers... they just went to game seven with ROCKETS... Nuggets In Six, I look at the line-up... D.Jones and Martin have play hard on KOBE


We will not put Martin on Kobe. Jones will be the man responsible for shutting him down, and when he goes out it will be JR. Who on the Lakers team is going to guard Melo, Nene, K-Mart, Billups, and JR? The Lakers didn't have the defenders to keep up with the Rockets what do you think is going to happen when they come up against the fire power that the Nuggets are going to bring? Nuggets in 5 maybe a sweep if the Lakers play at all like they did against the Rockets


Nuggets in 6

The Lakers are good but the Nuggets with Billups have to many offensive weapons. During the Houston series the Lakers biggest problem was defense...unless Denver shoots like Ron Artest for the entire series I don't think the Lakers can defend them.

I never accused anyone in specific of being a hater. I said there were people who were picking Denver because they dislike the Lakers. When I first made that statement, there were far less people who had voted, and I knew for a fact that some of those who voted were in no way Denver fans, had no interest in Denver and were simply people who disliked the Lakers and have continually shown that.

I'm not saying there aren't legitimate reasons to pick Denver. What I'm saying is a good number of those who voted aren't paying attention to those factors. A lot of people are looking at 2 bad games, and dismissing the Lakers from having "heart" or "intensity". Or they just simply see that they got pushed to 7 games against the Rockets with no Yao. And concluding, if they do that vs. them, how can they beat the Nuggets?

If you want to see why I think the Lakers will win, go here (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9506503&postcount=24) and here (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9507006&postcount=60) where I explained my points.

But I'm done with the smoke you're blowing out your ***. If you want to continue to believe that people are picking Denver because of no other reason than they are playing great basketball, and a strong dislike of the Lakers and Laker fans isn't present on PSD and that hasn't influenced the poll. Go ahead.

Fool
05-18-2009, 06:22 PM
I was just going by your record and numbers logic. By that the Lakers finished with a 65-17 record. Nuggets 54-28. By your records argument, The Lakers would wipe the Nuggets out. In that case you may say "Well the Nuggets are a better team now". Which I would agreee they have hit their peak at the right time. Grant it, The Rockets were without their two best players,but even so the Rockets are a far better defensive team than a full healthy Mavs team. Don't call me fool, Tool

:laugh: :laugh:

he was referring to me.

championships
05-18-2009, 06:30 PM
:laugh: :laugh:

he was referring to me.

oops my bad:hide:

ManRam
05-18-2009, 06:40 PM
Is this the objectivity and insight you were talking about:

So if the Lakers don't make the Finals...are you not going to root for a team? Is it illegal to root for a team. Is it illegal to pick the Nuggets if you aren't a fan of either team?

OMG! People are picking the Nuggets. OMG! People are going to root for the Nuggets. It's not fair!!!! OMG! People are picking the Nuggets, and explaining why. OMG! Not everyone is picking the Lakers. Something is wrong. OMG! The only reason people are picking Denver is because they hate the Lakers. Duh. OMG! Someone said the Lakers are struggling. How dare he say that.

Come on dude...are you serious??? Sure, some people hate the Lakers...and will never pick them. But I've seen a lot better arguments from people picking the Nuggets than I've seen from people picking the Lakers. Bottom line is, the Nuggets are playing better basketball right now...and people are realizing this.

Every single person you quoted either explained why they are picking the Nuggets...and if they didn't, they've explained it in other posts. But you're right. Odds are they're just haters.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 06:43 PM
I was just going by your record and numbers logic. By that the Lakers finished with a 65-17 record. Nuggets 54-28. By your records argument, The Lakers would wipe the Nuggets out. In that case you may say "Well the Nuggets are a better team now". Which I would agreee they have hit their peak at the right time. Grant it, The Rockets were without their two best players,but even so the Rockets are a far better defensive team than a full healthy Mavs team.

Not what I'm saying...all I'm saying is there is no way you can seriously say the Lakers have had the tougher road. At least I tried to provide some evidence supporting my claim. The Lakers were the best team in the West, no doubt. But there's a reason you have playoffs. Regular season record means a lot...which I'm tried to use to show that the Lakers aren't playing easier teams...but regular season record also means nothing in the playoffs. You start from scratch. If you'd rather I can just make empty claims and expect you to just trust that I'm right...

ManRam
05-18-2009, 06:50 PM
You really need to stop talking because some of the things you are saying are complete horseshit.

The Lakers played a healthy Jazz team that didn't have their full team together the whole year until late. Clearly have Boozer out along with Williams will hurt your PAs totals. Second, you can't talk about any team Denver faced having the defensive caliber players that Houston has. No one matches up to Artest and Battier when it comes to defending people. Ya the lakers lost 3 games but who cares. That series is over, the better team won. We all know they get lazy and that showed because they clearly thought Houston would bow down after Yao got hurt.

I'm going to tell you know, Denver is in for big trouble. When they Lakers know there's a challenge ahead, they won't be stopped, especially when they're 100% with everyone playing. Who's going to stop Kobe? No one on Denver can guard him. No one is going to stop Bynum or Pau and Odom runs wild on the Nuggets.

Just keep talking and when you see what happens, you'll wish you had shut your mouth.

Valid point about the Jazz. I still don't think they are significantly better than the Hornets, healthy or not.

Artest and Battier make up 1/5 or 2/5ths of the team defense. Yes, Kobe is the best player on the court. But still, defense is a team deal...even when you have shut down defenders.

Whatever...we're arguing over moot points. Who cares who's had the easier road to the WCFs? Does it matter? All that matters is who wins, and who is better.

We're just going to have to wait and see. One of us will be wrong...

I wont ever wish I shut my mouth. I'm not a coward. I'll eat my crow if I'm wrong. It's part of the game. I'd expect you all to do the same if the Nuggets win. I just don't get how incredibly confident you can be in your team when you have gotten blown out twice by a Rocket's team without Yao or McGrady. That's scary. If you are this confident, then congrats. Maybe you are right. I just don't think you are.

Spurred1
05-18-2009, 06:50 PM
You really need to stop talking because some of the things you are saying are complete horseshit.

The Lakers played a healthy Jazz team that didn't have their full team together the whole year until late. Clearly have Boozer out along with Williams will hurt your PAs totals. Second, you can't talk about any team Denver faced having the defensive caliber players that Houston has. No one matches up to Artest and Battier when it comes to defending people. Ya the lakers lost 3 games but who cares. That series is over, the better team won. We all know they get lazy and that showed because they clearly thought Houston would bow down after Yao got hurt.

I'm going to tell you know, Denver is in for big trouble. When they Lakers know there's a challenge ahead, they won't be stopped, especially when they're 100% with everyone playing. Who's going to stop Kobe? No one on Denver can guard him. No one is going to stop Bynum or Pau and Odom runs wild on the Nuggets.

Just keep talking and when you see what happens, you'll wish you had shut your mouth.

Wasn't Okur out for a couple of games in the first round? Are you implying that the Jazz and Rockets weren't challenging enough? If the Lakers get even the slightest bit lazy, they will have major problems. What concerns me is that the Lakers slacked off in the first game after Yao went out and lost. That should have alerted them to take the Rockets more seriously. But they didn't and wound up losing yet again. The Nuggets are fully healthy and will completely take advantage of any laziness on the Lakers' part.

Fool
05-18-2009, 06:53 PM
Wasn't Okur out for a couple of games in the first round? Are you implying that the Jazz and Rockets weren't challenging enough? If the Lakers get even the slightest bit lazy, they will have major problems. What concerns me is that the Lakers slacked off in the first game after Yao went out and lost. That should have alerted them to take the Rockets more seriously. But they didn't and wound up losing yet again. The Nuggets are fully healthy and will completely take advantage of any laziness on the Lakers' part.

Lakers realize that they have to give everything against the Nuggets, where as, as you said they didn't believe the Yao-less Rockets could win a game against them. It'll be different.

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 06:56 PM
Lakers realize that they have to give everything against the Nuggets, where as, as you said they didn't believe the Yao-less Rockets could win a game against them. It'll be different.

They did this against Utah and Houston thinking they'd be easy. The Nuggets steamrolled two *not so good* teams and have to have LA's attention.

Draco
05-18-2009, 06:57 PM
wasn't okur out for a couple of games in the first round? Are you implying that the jazz and rockets weren't challenging enough? If the lakers get even the slightest bit lazy, they will have major problems. What concerns me is that the lakers slacked off in the first game after yao went out and lost. that should have alerted them to take the rockets more seriously. But they didn't and wound up losing yet again. the nuggets are fully healthy and will completely take advantage of any laziness on the lakers' part.

+1

championships
05-18-2009, 06:58 PM
Not what I'm saying...all I'm saying is there is no way you can seriously say the Lakers have had the tougher road. At least I tried to provide some evidence supporting my claim. The Lakers were the best team in the West, no doubt. But there's a reason you have playoffs. Regular season record means a lot...which I'm tried to use to show that the Lakers aren't playing easier teams...but regular season record also means nothing in the playoffs. You start from scratch. If you'd rather I can just make empty claims and expect you to just trust that I'm right...

Which is it? make up your mind. The Rockets are a better team even without Yao. The Mavs barely made the playoffs. They won a few games in a row to move from 8th seed to 6th. Rockets being the better team = Tougher playoff schedule or are you actually going to make the claim that Dallas is better. It doesn't matter anyway. When the Lakers win in six, You can go back and talk about how the Nuggets had a tougher road, since you won't be able to talk about the Nuggs in the Finals.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 07:04 PM
Which is it? make up your mind. The Rockets are a better team even without Yao. The Mavs barely made the playoffs. They won a few games in a row to move from 8th seed to 6th. Rockets being the better team = Tougher playoff schedule or are you actually going to make the claim that Dallas is better. It doesn't matter anyway. When the Lakers win in six, You can go back and talk about how the Nuggets had a tougher road, since you won't be able to talk about the Nuggs in the Finals.

It's both.

It shows a lot about how good you are...but once in the playoffs, regular season records are wiped away. A poor team can get hot and win. A great team can get cold and lose. Regular season record and stats are still telling, and explain a lot more than just saying random things and acting as opinion is fact...but then again...it's like a whole new season.

So it's both.

And better without Yao? Do you SERIOUSLY believe that. They can win a few games here and there based on heart and will...but over an 82 game season, they wouldn't be a playoff team, and they would have lost in the first round.

If the Lakers lost Kobe, and the other guys stepped it up and won a few games, and a guy like Farmar goes ballistic, does that mean they're better without him? Nope. Yao's elite. Elite players make teams elite.

You're right. It doesn't matter. All that matters now is who's better: the Lakers or the Nuggets...not the Jazz or the Hornets...it never mattered. I was just using these things called facts (empirical evidence) to back up a claim (an opinion). Sorry for trying to back up what I say.

gauth25
05-18-2009, 07:08 PM
Wasn't Okur out for a couple of games in the first round? Are you implying that the Jazz and Rockets weren't challenging enough? If the Lakers get even the slightest bit lazy, they will have major problems. What concerns me is that the Lakers slacked off in the first game after Yao went out and lost. That should have alerted them to take the Rockets more seriously. But they didn't and wound up losing yet again. The Nuggets are fully healthy and will completely take advantage of any laziness on the Lakers' part.

Ya I know Okur was out but he's not the defender Boozer is.

The games against the Rockets where they were lazy and unwilling to play hard are gone I believe. I think they know they got away with that series and it will open their eyes. They don't want to come up short again and they will come out firing.

Verbal Christ
05-18-2009, 07:10 PM
nugs in 6. they are tougher than the lakers, play great defense, have legitimate offensive options to counter LA's offense, have the size to matchup and are fully healthy. even the zen master started using the 'if we were healthy' line against the rockets, only leaves me wondering.

AllTheWay
05-18-2009, 07:13 PM
Still upset eh?

championships
05-18-2009, 07:13 PM
It's both.

It shows a lot about how good you are...but once in the playoffs, regular season records are wiped away. A poor team can get hot and win. A great team can get cold and lose. Regular season record and stats are still telling, and explain a lot more than just saying random things and acting as opinion is fact...but then again...it's like a whole new season.

So it's both.

And better without Yao? Do you SERIOUSLY believe that. They can win a few games here and there based on heart and will...but over an 82 game season, they wouldn't be a playoff team, and they would have lost in the first round.

If the Lakers lost Kobe, and the other guys stepped it up and won a few games, and a guy like Farmar goes ballistic, does that mean they're better without him? Nope. Yao's elite. Elite players make teams elite.

You're right. It doesn't matter. All that matters now is who's better: the Lakers or the Nuggets...not the Jazz or the Hornets...it never mattered. I was just using these things called facts (empirical evidence) to back up a claim (an opinion). Sorry for trying to back up what I say.

Apology Accepted:D

bahama0811
05-18-2009, 07:13 PM
There's no reason to argue with Laker fans, it's a losing battle.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 07:14 PM
Apology Accepted:D

;)

superkegger
05-18-2009, 07:16 PM
There's no reason to argue with Laker fans, it's a losing battle.

Yeah, we're right most of the time. :D

Verbal Christ
05-18-2009, 07:17 PM
Still upset eh?

upset? nah it was a good series for us, for you guys? uhumm not so much even when you won the series. so keep up the tunnel vision, its cool i think everyone knows what to expect from laker fan here, and even if you somehow get by denver lebron is gonna take your cookies! enjoy.

Hawkeye15
05-18-2009, 07:19 PM
You can't just look at seeds and you can't just look on paper. Just because they have the #1 seed and played lower seeds doesn't mean that their series were more tough. That's a stupid thing to think.



and that's exactly why Laker fans hate most other fans. Because the stereotypes are unbelievable.

you're right, I apologize. that was rude of me.

ManRam
05-18-2009, 07:21 PM
Yeah, we're right most of the time. :D

I think that's made pretty obvious. ;)

bahama0811
05-18-2009, 07:22 PM
Yeah, we're right most of the time. :D

No, it's not that. It's the fact that even though you're wrong you still think you're right.

IversonIsKrazy
05-18-2009, 07:44 PM
IMO, its going to depend ALL on the post-game. Kobe, Billups, Melo, Ariza will all have a good series, but it depends on the post. Can Gasol score against the physical front-court of Denver? Can denvers post score at all? Will Bynum finally play like Bynum?

I still got Lakers in 6.

Hawkeye15
05-18-2009, 07:45 PM
Yeah, we're right most of the time. :D

um, not really

JayW_1023
05-18-2009, 07:59 PM
Will Bynum finally play like Bynum?

.

Will Bynum is playing to avoid demotion to the Euroleague...and I doubt he'll grow a foot within a day to be able to play like Andrew.


Just messin' around :smoking:

ManRam
05-18-2009, 08:03 PM
Last comment (maybe) before the game.

The Lakers will not win in 6.
The Nuggets will not win in 7.

The Lakers are going to either win in 4 or 5, or 7. They're either going to play dominating basketball, both at home or away, and end this early...or they're going to just win all the home games, lose all the road ones, and move on. They won't win an elimination game (for the Nugs) on the road.

The Lakers are also too good to lose a game 7 at home. That wont happen.

If the last game is game 6...I guarantee you it will be the Nuggets moving on.

I still think all they have to do is take one of games 1,2 or 5, and they're set. I don't see the Lakers winning on the road in Denver.

We'll see if I'm right in two weeks.

Fool
05-18-2009, 08:11 PM
Last comment (maybe) before the game.

The Lakers will not win in 6.
The Nuggets will not win in 7.

The Lakers are going to either win in 4 or 5, or 7. They're either going to play dominating basketball, both at home or away, and end this early...or they're going to just win all the home games, lose all the road ones, and move on. They won't win an elimination game (for the Nugs) on the road.

The Lakers are also too good to lose a game 7 at home. That wont happen.

If the last game is game 6...I guarantee you it will be the Nuggets moving on.

I still think all they have to do is take one of games 1,2 or 5, and they're set. I don't see the Lakers winning on the road in Denver.

We'll see if I'm right in two weeks.

I actually agree with you on this. Except for the bolded, but I agree.

mfb_lt1birdman
05-18-2009, 08:18 PM
Amazing how so many people are using the Houston series as a barometer for the Lakers and so quickly forgetting how easily we pasted Utah. LA has played down to their competition all year, Bobcats, Pacers, and the depleted Rockets are great examples. I was first in line to blast them because it is quite frustrating, but I still believe they are finals bound.

Now I have all sorts of respect for Billups and what he has brought to Denver. But besides Billups this is mostly the same team we swept last year minus Camby + a healthy Nene. Well, LA now has a healthy Ariza + a 75% Bynum.

Denver still has nobody to touch Kobe. Compared to last series facing Battier, and Artest, he is going to feel like a Rottweiler that just broke free of his chain. If and when he drives to the hole and collapses the D Gasol/Bynum/Odom will have easy dunks and great opportunities for second chance points. I look for Fish to find his shot again and consistantly knock down the 3 ball as well.

Gasol will be a pretty solid 18-20 point guy.

Defensively Kobe will be able to roam with Jones in the game to help out on Billups or Anthony. LA bigs will control the boards, and with it, the tempo of the games.

Now Denver has some big advantages too. A much better bench with a 30ppg guy in Smith if he gets hot. So I am definitely worried about him. LA's bench has pretty much dissappered of late. Billups can and will post Fish at will and has a decisive adavantage over him or any PG we throw at him. I hope Kobe picks him up some letting Fish or Farmar, or Brown handle the SG. And Anthony is a problem. I'm not in fantasy land hoping Ariza can guard him. He has almost as clear an advantage as Kobe does, but Melo is not going to go for huge numbers every game. LA should pack in the D in the paint and force him to be a shooter which will go in LA's favor.

No doubt Denver has improved their D and is a physical team. But they are not as good defensively as Houston, and IMO not as tough as Utah. LA will raise the bar and bounce Denver in 5 if they play to what they are capable of. More than likely a game will slip though and this is over in 6.

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 08:23 PM
IMO, its going to depend ALL on the post-game. Kobe, Billups, Melo, Ariza will all have a good series, but it depends on the post. Can Gasol score against the physical front-court of Denver? Can denvers post score at all? Will Bynum finally play like Bynum?

I still got Lakers in 6.

Gasol, Odom and Bynum flat out destroyed the Nuggets in the post on both ends this year. In all four games, the Lakers had the clear advantage in the post....not to mention again, they have no one to stop Kobe and we can slow Melo with Kobe, Ariza and Walton.

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 08:26 PM
Amazing how so many people are using the Houston series as a barometer for the Lakers and so quickly forgetting how easily we pasted Utah. LA has played down to their competition all year, Bobcats, Pacers, and the depleted Rockets are great examples. I was first in line to blast them because it is quite frustrating, but I still believe they are finals bound.

Now I have all sorts of respect for Billups and what he has brought to Denver. But besides Billups this is mostly the same team we swept last year minus Camby + a healthy Nene. Well, LA now has a healthy Ariza + a 75% Bynum.

Denver still has nobody to touch Kobe. Compared to last series facing Battier, and Artest, he is going to feel like a Rottweiler that just broke free of his chain. If and when he drives to the hole and collapses the D Gasol/Bynum/Odom will have easy dunks and great opportunities for second chance points. I look for Fish to find his shot again and consistantly knock down the 3 ball as well.

Gasol will be a pretty solid 18-20 point guy.

Defensively Kobe will be able to roam with Jones in the game to help out on Billups or Anthony. LA bigs will control the boards, and with it, the tempo of the games.

Now Denver has some big advantages too. A much better bench with a 30ppg guy in Smith if he gets hot. So I am definitely worried about him. LA's bench has pretty much dissappered of late. Billups can and will post Fish at will and has a decisive adavantage over him or any PG we throw at him. I hope Kobe picks him up some letting Fish or Farmar, or Brown handle the SG. And Anthony is a problem. I'm not in fantasy land hoping Ariza can guard him. He has almost as clear an advantage as Kobe does, but Melo is not going to go for huge numbers every game. LA should pack in the D in the paint and force him to be a shooter which will go in LA's favor.

No doubt Denver has improved their D and is a physical team. But they are not as good defensively as Houston, and IMO not as tough as Utah. LA will raise the bar and bounce Denver in 5 if they play to what they are capable of. More than likely a game will slip though and this is over in 6.

No he can't. That's the one advantage Fisher has on Billups on the defensive end. He's one of the biggest, strongest and best post defenders out of any PG in the league. Billups' best bet is to try penetrating. If he gets in the post with Fisher, he won't get anything accomplished.

kimchi'sworld
05-18-2009, 08:32 PM
Last comment (maybe) before the game.

The Lakers will not win in 6.
The Nuggets will not win in 7.

The Lakers are going to either win in 4 or 5, or 7. They're either going to play dominating basketball, both at home or away, and end this early...or they're going to just win all the home games, lose all the road ones, and move on. They won't win an elimination game (for the Nugs) on the road.

The Lakers are also too good to lose a game 7 at home. That wont happen.

If the last game is game 6...I guarantee you it will be the Nuggets moving on.

I still think all they have to do is take one of games 1,2 or 5, and they're set. I don't see the Lakers winning on the road in Denver.

We'll see if I'm right in two weeks.


Agree. If Nuggets steal a game in L.A. they'll win the series. If L.A. can win every game at home they'll win in 7







Gasol, Odom and Bynum flat out destroyed the Nuggets in the post on both ends this year. In all four games, the Lakers had the clear advantage in the post....not to mention again, they have no one to stop Kobe and we can slow Melo with Kobe, Ariza and Walton.

The regular season doesn't matter, If it did then why didn't la destroy Houston. Melo's also playing arguably at as high a level if not higher then both Lebron and Kobe.

Denver's bigs of Martin, Nene and Birdman are going to give the Lakers bigs of Gasol, Odom and Bynum a very hard time. I mean if la's bigs don't have the heart or balls to handle smaller undersized tough guys like Chuck Hayes, Carl Landry and Luis Scola then how are they going to fare against the bigger tough guys from Denver?

Denver-boy
05-18-2009, 08:33 PM
Nuggets will have come with that hunger they had with the Mavs and hornets! Lakers need to be knocked from the feet... we need to take one from their home, right off the bat!

gauth25
05-18-2009, 09:35 PM
Nuggets will have come with that hunger they had with the Mavs and hornets! Lakers need to be knocked from the feet... we need to take one from their home, right off the bat!

Just be quiet.

bahama0811
05-18-2009, 09:36 PM
Just be quiet.

Wow, great point. I mean Nuggets fans obviously can't say anything cuz we're always wrong:rolleyes:

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 09:42 PM
The regular season doesn't matter, If it did then why didn't la destroy Houston. Melo's also playing arguably at as high a level if not higher then both Lebron and Kobe.

Denver's bigs of Martin, Nene and Birdman are going to give the Lakers bigs of Gasol, Odom and Bynum a very hard time. I mean if la's bigs don't have the heart or balls to handle smaller undersized tough guys like Chuck Hayes, Carl Landry and Luis Scola then how are they going to fare against the bigger tough guys from Denver?

Actually it does. Who has homecourt?

No they won't. They haven't for two years and they won't start now. LA usually plays bad in the post against Houston. On the other hand, they destroy Denver.

mrblisterdundee
05-18-2009, 11:00 PM
Art Garcia, a writer for NBA.com, picked Denver to win in six games (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/art_garcia/05/17/den.lal.preview/index.html).
He points to the superior playoff performance of Denver as the reason for his pick. Despite his previous troubles against the Lakers, Carmello Anthony is having a breakout post-season. It already obvious that Kobe Bryant will play well as always.
He also pointed to the Nuggets being undefeated at home, something the Lakers have failed to be. Can the Lakers win a mile high in front of a hostile crowd? Kobe will be alright, but who knows about the rest of the team. On the other side of the equation, playing in Los Angeles isn't too much of an advantage with the apathetic nature of the fans.
Despite the Lakers' front court length, he wrote, they are not as active as Denver's. Nene, Anderson, and Martin just seem to work a lot harder than Pau, Odom, and Bynum.
He also questions the Lakers' heart. Denver appears to be a much tougher team, and possibly deeper.
Also, he often referenced Denver's defense improvements that arrived with Chauncey Billups. He might make the difference. Denver is already leading the playoffs in forced turnovers.
All these factors lead to Denver being the second best team in the playoffs, and ready to face Cleveland in the NBA Finals.

KW93KB24
05-18-2009, 11:06 PM
im just going to say 4-0 Lakers Max. 4-1 nuggents winning a lucky game 3

lamar2006
05-18-2009, 11:14 PM
Who????

still1ballin
05-18-2009, 11:21 PM
Never heard of him. His opinion is worthless

junion
05-18-2009, 11:28 PM
everything art garcia says has come true 100% of the time, therefore it is set in stone.

superkegger
05-18-2009, 11:29 PM
there's a series thread for a reason.

dgo24
05-18-2009, 11:29 PM
who the hell is Art Garcia?

Denver-boy
05-18-2009, 11:36 PM
Just be quiet.

Oh im sorry do Nuggets fans annoy you. too bad! Go Nuggets! :clap::clap::clap::clap: GO NUGGETS! GO NUGGETS!!!

Game_Over
05-18-2009, 11:47 PM
I love how Lakers fans are saying well be lucky to win one game when they went to a game seven with Houston that didn't have a Center for half the series..:rolleyes:

lakers4sho
05-18-2009, 11:48 PM
Art Garcia is god.

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

brandt
05-18-2009, 11:59 PM
But I'm sure you're right. Nobody is picking denver because they dislike the Lakers. I bet all those votes are simply analysis of the teams play, nothing to do with a dislike of the Lakers.

Oh I get it. Sarcasm. Where is your proof that even ľ of B Ball fans, are voting for Denver just because they dislike the Lakers? Iím a Rockets fan and I picked the lakers to beat the Rockets in exactly 7. However, I picked Denver in 7 this time, obviously not because I donít like the Lakers. Otherwise I would have picked the lakers to lose against the Rockets. But I picked Denver to win the series because itís true, they will.



Yeah, we're right most of the time. :D

Really?! Keep in mind these quotes are before the series started and before the Rockets lost Yao Ming.


Lakers in 5. Lakers swept the season series, and the Rockets haven't of the sudden become a much better team/QUOTE]

If the Rockets didnít get better, then the only other explanation is that the Lakers got worse. You didnít sweep them in the playoffs now did ya?

[QUOTE=LakersIn5;9314550]LAKERS IN 5. rockets are better than most people blah blah blah blah blah! thats what they said about the jazz. artest just cant stop kobe this season. and the lakers is simple better

Not better by much apparently. Itís always about Kobe. So what if Artest couldnít guard him, neither could S. Battier and look what happened. HOWEVER, you guys would be nothing without Kobe, the Rockets were actually SOMETHING without Ming And Tmac. And donít say we were better without Tmac. If Tmac was ever healthy he would have helped us alot.


Lakers in 4, Kobe will get Artest & Battier in foul trouble all games....

WRONG!



This series will be short. Its a bad matchup for Houston. 5 games is realistic. 4 games is certainly a possibility. Just like Houston owned the matchup with Portland, LA owns the matchup with Houston.

WRONG!


lakers in 4!!! trust me!

WRONG! Thank god I didnít!


The Laker bigs will destroy the Rockets. The game will be close for the first half, but by the second half Yao will be way to worn down. Rockets will probably only win 1 game for obvious reasons.

What were those obvious reasons???


Rockets have no chance. They can't score enough, I know you have to stand by your team, but I want to see what you have to say when they get bounced in 4 or 5. The Lakers were 4-0 against the rockets this year, 1 game was without Bynum and Odom.

You forgot ďI want to see what you have to say when they win in 7Ē



lakers in 4

HA!

ManRam
05-19-2009, 12:03 AM
I love you brandt. Great post.

But come on, Laker fans aren't ever wrong...and non-Laker fans...also known as haters...are never right. So I think you need to shut your mouth.

I'm sooo pumped for tomorrow...and Wednesday. Going to be two great conference championships.

thedfactor
05-19-2009, 12:10 AM
The only way this series doesn't go all 7 games is if Denver wins in 6 at home. BIRDMAN!

DenButsu
05-19-2009, 12:10 AM
Actually it does. Who has homecourt?

True, but in terms of the actual season series between the Nuggets and Lakers, I really think it carries very little weight in terms of being an accurate predictor of what will happen in this series.

For one thing, Billups hadn't even joined Denver yet in the Nuggets' first loss to L.A.

For another, the second loss was also in November, it was only Chauncey's 11th game with the team, the Birdman was out with injury, and Melo played exceptionally poorly (which is not to take anything away from the Lakers defense in that game, but if you think you'll be consistently holding him to 5-19 shooting in this series, then you're either overestimating the Lakers D or underestimating Melo). Not to mention the fact that the Lakers opened up their season by pretty much picking up right where they left off, guns a'blazin', while the Nuggets were essentially retooling their entire defensive and offensive structures on the fly, and in the very early stages of that process (which really had not completely come together until we reached the postseason).

Lakers fans can provide their own reasons for why the Nuggets win in February didn't matter, as I've seen them do many times.

And the game in April was pretty much a throwaway game for the Nuggets, it being the 2nd night of a B2B on the road in the Staples Center, with Bynum's return to the lineup being a major energizer for the Lakers.


And that brings us to the postseason, where Denver's game has elevated to a new level, while L.A.'s has been at best inconsistent and at worst somewhat lazy/indifferent at times. And even this isn't a reliable predictor of what will happen, but I think the scales are balanced much more evenly here than most Lakers fans are giving the Nuggets credit for. And while I'd still tip the advantage to the Lakers due to their being proven, due to Kobe's Kobeness, and due to the fact that they hold the HCA, I'd still maintain that that advantage is not nearly as overwhelming as so many people seem to think it is, and that those who expect the Lakers to roll over the Nuggets with ease like they did last year are in for a big surprise.

Game_Over
05-19-2009, 12:13 AM
Classic!! brandt your the man, these Lakers fans act like they're just going to sweep everyone!!

superkegger
05-19-2009, 12:24 AM
Oh I get it. Sarcasm. Where is your proof that even ľ of B Ball fans, are voting for Denver just because they dislike the Lakers? I’m a Rockets fan and I picked the lakers to beat the Rockets in exactly 7. However, I picked Denver in 7 this time, obviously not because I don’t like the Lakers. Otherwise I would have picked the lakers to lose against the Rockets. But I picked Denver to win the series because it’s true, they will.

Can I prove that 1/4 of those who voted for Denver did so out of spite for the Lakers? No, I can't prove it. But as a Laker fan on this site, for almost 3 years, there are certain people that love to take shots at the Lakers and their fans, and love to hate the Lakers, and I see some of their names in the poll. I never said "Everybody who votes Denver is a Laker hater." I said a good number who had voted were and at the time of the original post, it was true. from what other posters past posts in regards to the Lakers were. Maybe they did put that aside, and simply made the decision on the basketball being played by both, but I'm inclined to highly doubt it, because they haven't proved to have done so in the past.


And I do hope you know that quote, that Lakers fans are always right was made in jest. Christ.



Really?! Keep in mind these quotes are before the series started and before the Rockets lost Yao Ming.


Lakers in 5. Lakers swept the season series, and the Rockets haven't of the sudden become a much better team

Yeah, I was wrong.

And I've never defended Laker fans to be the most rational human beings. Never said that some Laker fans aren't jug heads who say stupid things and shoot off at the mouth. I've made it pretty clear in the past that I often hang my head in shame at what some other Lakers fans say, because it is down right foolish.


I love you brandt. Great post.

But come on, Laker fans aren't ever wrong...and non-Laker fans...also known as haters...are never right. So I think you need to shut your mouth.

I'm sooo pumped for tomorrow...and Wednesday. Going to be two great conference championships.

You know, I find it funny you would applaud Brandt's post, when just yesterday you had this to say about what he did.


If there was always a "right" answer, there wouldn't be a reason to play the game. Getting angry at people for picking a different team than you, especially since they've won three games already this series is flat out laughable. You can politely disagree, but calling them out...after the fact...is cowardly.

ManRam
05-19-2009, 12:27 AM
You know, I find it funny you would applaud Brandt's post, when just yesterday you had this to say about what he did.

You got me. Touche.

He's a coward too. But a cool coward.

He's just pointing out the insane hypocrisy that some people display. There was a point behind his. There was no point behind what I originally commented on. Actually, there was. It was to show how if you don't pick the Lakers you're a hater.

I commend you on your comments before you quoted me. Well said.

RyanWeber
05-19-2009, 10:07 AM
lakers in 6

DrDEADalready
05-19-2009, 10:11 AM
Nuggs in 6.

Aye baby.

theimortalone
05-19-2009, 10:22 AM
Nuggets in 6! :D If Phoenix was in LA's position, I would feel the same way. Nuggets are just clicking on all cylindars right now.

bahama0811
05-19-2009, 11:40 AM
It's okay, we all know that Laker fans know all. Let's just hope for better things next year Nuggets fans;)

IBleedPurple
05-19-2009, 02:23 PM
After this series, Danthay Jones will generally be the most hated player on these forums. Mark these words.

You are correct. Win or lose, Dahntay will be hated tremendously by the Laker Nation.


The Rockets are and were better than Dallas & NO easily...

You haven't faced a defense yet. Melo saves his worst games for the Lakers, look it up. He's shooting 32% against LA. LA finished 82 games as a better offensive team in the NBA. Pau Gasol is all NBA 3rd team. Chauncey isn't.

The WORST? Are you sure about that? You mean of the teams remaining? I guess that is true. But just like the 99-00 Lakers or the 07-08 Celtics, struggling through to the title is a good way to go. Nuggets have done nothing to prove they are better than the Lakers.

-As stated by others, the defenses Denver has faced are comparable in stats to the defenses the Lakers have faced.

-Chauncey IS all NBA 3rd team, and so was Melo. Nice one.

-Struggling through to the title is a good way to go? :rolleyes:


So if the Lakers don't make the Finals...are you not going to root for a team? Is it illegal to root for a team. Is it illegal to pick the Nuggets if you aren't a fan of either team?

OMG! People are picking the Nuggets. OMG! People are going to root for the Nuggets. It's not fair!!!! OMG! People are picking the Nuggets, and explaining why. OMG! Not everyone is picking the Lakers. Something is wrong. OMG! The only reason people are picking Denver is because they hate the Lakers. Duh. OMG! Someone said the Lakers are struggling. How dare he say that.

Come on dude...are you serious??? Sure, some people hate the Lakers...and will never pick them. But I've seen a lot better arguments from people picking the Nuggets than I've seen from people picking the Lakers. Bottom line is, the Nuggets are playing better basketball right now...and people are realizing this.

Every single person you quoted either explained why they are picking the Nuggets...and if they didn't, they've explained it in other posts. But you're right. Odds are they're just haters.

Well said. Everyone who picks against the Lakers has to be delusional. If you picked the Rockets last series, you are clearly insane, because that series was a blowout.....

I think the underdog factor is being ignored. For instance, if Denver was out of the playoffs and let's say Houston was still playing, I personally would root for Houston, just because of their previous history in the playoffs. There was a poll in this forum recently that asked if fans prefer the team with home court advantage or the underdog. The results were staggering, with 41 votes for the lower seed, and only 3 for the team with HCA.

I think Pau will have to exploit the matchup for LA to be successful.

And everyone who is bringing up past seasons really needs to stop. Different Lakers, different Melo, different Nuggets. It really isn't a valid argument.

LAKERMANIA
05-19-2009, 02:32 PM
I would probably root for Denver if LA loses, but it isn't happening ;)

Denver-boy
05-19-2009, 03:33 PM
Lakers are so overrated

Fool
05-19-2009, 04:10 PM
It's okay, we all know that Laker fans know all. Let's just hope for better things next year Nuggets fans;)

and we all know that all laker fans don't know anything. way to be broad and over generalizing.

superkegger
05-19-2009, 04:24 PM
After further reading and stat grazing, I think this series comes down to a few key factors. I think outside of Chauncey and Kobe, who I think will do their part regardless of other factors, here's the keys in my mind.

1. Melo- He's been playing crazy good so far in the playoffs, but in the season series vs. the Lakers, he played very poor. If Melo doesn't continue on his great play, and slips even just a bit, it's bad news for the Nuggets.

2. Pau- I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Pau is the key for the Lakers. Martin is too small to guard him, and if Pau gets off on him, it creates so many other opportunities for the Lakers, and especially Kobe. If you can't contain Gasol, it leaves Kobe to be able to play more 1 on 1 basketball, and with his offensive tools, he's one of the most deadly 1 on 1 players (within the context of a game) in the NBA. If Pau can't get it going, it's going to be harder for everyone else on the Lakers too as well.

3. JR Smith- Dude can flat score, no doubt. And he's going to have to, and do so somewhat efficiently. He'll no doubt see some time with Kobe on him, and he has to make Kobe play him. He can't let Kobe have rest on defense, he has to make him work, and then in turn, he has to be a defender too. If JR isn't focused on both ends, it's going to be a much harder series for the Nuggets to win.

4. Lamar Odom- He's somewhat of a question mark in every game. What Lamar is going to show up? If the good, aggressive and rebound hungry and assertive Lamar shows up, it will help to spark on the Lakers bench. If the Lamar that some Laker fans love to call "Odumb" and garbage among other things, shows up, it will deflate the bench, and make it harder for them to be as effective as they could be.

5. Homecourt- The Nuggets have not played well in Staples. And the Lakers haven't exactly had wonderful road performances. (Though they both have actually won the same amount of road games...). If the Lakers can't protect homecourt, it will make it a hell of a hard series. If the Nuggets lose a game at home in games 3 or 4, I don't think they'll be able to win the series (that of course is assuming the Nuggets don't go into LA and win both games 1 and 2, which I think is unlikely).

JordansBulls
05-20-2009, 12:54 AM
Denver needed that game.

Raidaz4Life
05-20-2009, 12:56 AM
Denver needed that game.

agreed that was a lot of momentum they lost by giving up the lead in the 4th quarter

JordansBulls
05-20-2009, 12:59 AM
This series will probably be like Dallas vs San Antonio in 2006. I believe the Spurs came back and took game 1 at home as well by 2 points. We will see how Denver responds. I think Denver is good enough to win all of it's home games.

GREATNESS ONE
05-20-2009, 12:59 AM
Big Big Win.

superkegger
05-20-2009, 01:01 AM
It looks like its going to be a great series

Lakersfan2483
05-20-2009, 01:06 AM
Great win tonight, Denver was playing great, but we still were able to win this game which is huge for us. The key is putting more pressure on them by winning on Thursday. Great game by Kobe tonight, 40 pts (18 in the 4th quarter), he and Melo put on a show.

leftymo
05-20-2009, 01:17 AM
Laker fans are going to hate Dahntay Jones?

Now that's comical.

Dahntay Jones is probably among the top 3 reasons why Denver will lose this series.

superkegger
05-20-2009, 01:25 AM
Yeah, Dahntay didn't really have that great of an effect on Kobe.

ManRam
05-20-2009, 01:31 AM
Yeah, Dahntay disappointed. I'm still not ready to say he's not a great defender. He picked up 3 quick fouls, which is a common thing for him, but that limited him...a little.

I still think he can have an impact.

superkegger
05-20-2009, 01:41 AM
Well, he doesn't play that much. Never really does. Fouls are not a concern with him. He pretty much plays the first like 8 minutes of each half and thats about it.

Kobe is just too big for him. He's a pesky defender, but not a shut down defender. He can't stop Kobe from getting to places before he gets the ball, which is something battier can. And once Kobe gets the ball, Dahntay doesn't have the strength to stop Kobe from going to where he wants.

Dahntay is a good defender, but he's better when he is going against smaller guys who rely on speed, not on strength. Plus he doesn't have the bball IQ shane does. Shane doesn't gamble on Kobe, dahntay does. Shane isn't going to try and steal the ball from Kobe, becuase then he's going to give up opportunities to Kobe. It's about never giving Kobe a good look, ever. All it really takes for Kobe is one good look and he can get going. Dahntay doesn't have the ability to prohibit Kobe from getting good looks.

GoatMilk
05-20-2009, 01:44 AM
Lakers got to give Kobe the ball more when Anthony Carter is on him

anyways, lakers lucked out. Game 2 is a must win for both teams, maybe even more so to the lakers. With the way they played today, they can't win in Denver

AllTheWay
05-20-2009, 01:51 AM
Awesome game. But yeah, Denver still has no one who can guard Kobe. And the Lakers did an excellent job on Chauncey. Hopefully Melo isn't as hot in game 2.

superkegger
05-20-2009, 01:58 AM
Awesome game. But yeah, Denver still has no one who can guard Kobe. And the Lakers did an excellent job on Chauncey. Hopefully Melo isn't as hot in game 2.

as much as the nuggets don't have anyone who can guard Kobe, the same is true for the Lakers with Melo. He was hot cause we don't have anyone who can slow him.

AllTheWay
05-20-2009, 02:12 AM
Kobe did the best against Melo, despite the weight and height disparity. Luke also usually does a decent job on Melo, so putting Luke on him for a few minutes shouldn't hurt so much.

I still liked the fact that Kobe started out guarding Chauncey, it kept him from ever getting into a groove. Pau needs to score more, and Farmar and Brown need more PT, with Sasha getting less. Much less.

JayW_1023
05-20-2009, 02:33 AM
Kobe showed why he is probably the best all round player since MJ. Incredible how he fueled that comeback. Truly a great performance.

Even though Denver lost...they should feel really good about keeping the game so close at Staples. They would've won if they hit their FT's with more consistency.

D Blue987
05-20-2009, 02:35 AM
as much as the nuggets don't have anyone who can guard Kobe, the same is true for the Lakers with Melo. He was hot cause we don't have anyone who can slow him.

Ultimately at the end of the day though, Kobe is better than Melo. That being said, this really hurts the confidence of the Nuggets. The Nuggets should have won this game and Kobe shouldnt have been a factor in this game but he was and the Nuggets lost. If the Lakers win game 2 then I will change my original prediction to 5 games. The Lakers are more than capable of winning on the road. Game 2 is crucial for both teams but even more so for Denver. If Denver wins then it is a series for sure. If they lose then the series is all but over. You just cant play like the Nuggets played tonight and lose and expect to win a series like that.

shep33
05-20-2009, 03:05 AM
Man, I have such respect for Kobe, defending the Nuggets 2 best players throughout the game. He pretty much shut Billups down, and even though Melo has 20-30 lbs on him, he battled him in the post. Reminded me of MJ on D when guarding Melo. Melo is playin ridiculous though, he is probably the best offensive player in the game right now. He has everything, good post game, good explosiveness, 3 point shot, gets to the line, even has a two dribble pullup. But still I'll take Kobe.

Chronz
05-20-2009, 03:21 AM
Melo just had the game of his life, I guarantee if he continues to outdo Kobe in this manner the Nuggets will win the series. The Nuggets had alot of things go wrong, they honestly should have won this game with how great they defended the passing lanes and Kobe being a lone gunner. But Kobe is the ultimate closer man he really stepped it up in the 4th, Im so glad hes still able to do this. Up until this point he was starting to look mortal.

JayW_1023
05-20-2009, 03:26 AM
Melo just had the game of his life, I guarantee if he continues to outdo Kobe in this manner the Nuggets will win the series. The Nuggets had alot of things go wrong, they honestly should have won this game with how great they defended the passing lanes and Kobe being a lone gunner. But Kobe is the ultimate closer man he really stepped it up in the 4th, Im so glad hes still able to do this. Up until this point he was starting to look mortal.

If Kobe can have this type of performance for most of the series, however, I will reserve my presumptions that LBJ has become the leagues best player. I do agree the Nuggets kind of blew it though.

I sorta expected the Lakers to win Game 1 in a close contest. It's still a concern the Nuggets kept it so close...the Lakers will not dominate Denver by any means.