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Cubs Win
05-16-2009, 11:25 PM
This is nbadraft.net's 50 player value board. Basically, its who you'd want to pick if you started a team from scratch.

http://www.hoopsdaily.com/vb-rankings-report

kblo247
05-16-2009, 11:38 PM
Lost all credibility with Marvin Williams, but Odom no where to be found

droalex
05-16-2009, 11:41 PM
It was alright.

Draco
05-16-2009, 11:41 PM
Brook Lopez beneath Bynum? I'd have put him ahead of Stoudemire at least insomuch as I'd rather have Lopez than Stoudemire on the Bull's.

astrosmaniac
05-16-2009, 11:43 PM
would you want to start a franchise around lamar odom? williams at least is young and has potential

black1605
05-16-2009, 11:44 PM
Gerald Wallace should have made it somewhere

kblo247
05-16-2009, 11:46 PM
would you want to start a franchise around lamar odom? williams at least is young and has potential

Stays more injury prone right now as well

The Heat built a team where Odom was the man, and it went from lottery bound to the second round

Cubs Win
05-16-2009, 11:52 PM
Stays more injury prone right now as well

The Heat built a team where Odom was the man, and it went from lottery bound to the second round

But you also have to consider how long ago that is.

Hellcrooner
05-16-2009, 11:54 PM
?_? i mean Rajon OVER Pau Gasol and Granger UNDER Pau Gasol????? WTF!!!!!!1

black1605
05-16-2009, 11:56 PM
i would rather build a around Rondo than Pau at this point in their careers

Hellcrooner
05-16-2009, 11:56 PM
i would by no means build over Bynum, and im a Laker Fan!!!

kblo247
05-16-2009, 11:56 PM
But you also have to consider how long ago that is.

You also take into account that he is smarter player now than he was years ago and has had more practice when it come to holding a team together.

Hellcrooner
05-16-2009, 11:57 PM
i would rather build a around Rondo than Pau at this point in their careers

Put Rondo on a bad team withouth a bunch of Allstars that will probably all of them end up in Hof and lets see how he does....

black1605
05-17-2009, 12:03 AM
such a weak excuse...are they responsible for his 10 rpg? or his 3 steals? Pierce and Allen havent exactly been lights out in the playoffs

kblo247
05-17-2009, 12:05 AM
such a weak excuse...are they responsible for his 10 rpg? or his 3 steals? Pierce and Allen havent exactly been lights out in the playoffs

Rondo and his poor jumper is the reason for the extra rebound opportunities

Spurred1
05-17-2009, 12:07 AM
The crying over Pau is tiresome, Hellcrooner. Pau has proven himself to be a great second option, not someone you build a team around. The list itself is fine; sort of surprised Timmy would be that high considering his age and all.

black1605
05-17-2009, 12:09 AM
take his offensive rebounds away, and he is still averaging 8.8 against orlando

astrosmaniac
05-17-2009, 09:59 AM
You also take into account that he is smarter player now than he was years ago and has had more practice when it come to holding a team together.

your talking bout 2 players of incredibly similar caliber, but one is in his late 20s/early 302 range and the other is in their low 20s

NYstateofMinD
05-17-2009, 10:41 AM
To be honest, I don't like this list, but I see where he is coming from.

FOBolous
05-17-2009, 10:54 AM
Why's Carmelo Anthony so high?

Cubs Win
05-17-2009, 11:11 AM
Why's Carmelo Anthony so high?

Yeah, I thought he was a little high myself. Simply because he hasn't been able to win much without the addition of Billups. He's a great player but to this point I wouldn't say he's that high up when building a franchise.

b_rad23
05-17-2009, 11:11 AM
your talking bout 2 players of incredibly similar caliber, but one is in his late 20s/early 302 range and the other is in their low 20s

This I can agree with.

But why is Marvin above Beasley??

Cubs Win
05-17-2009, 11:23 AM
This I can agree with.

But why is Marvin above Beasley??

I think the writer's worry was about Beasley's defense. And also, will he be like a Carmelo where he's a great player but needs someone else (at least at this point)? At least for now, who knows exactly what Beasley will be if he's the #1 option. For now, him and Wade should turn into a great duo, but can you say yet that Beasley will be a franchise type, #1 option player for a winning team? In the writers opinion not yet. With that said, I agree with you about Beasley being above Marvin Williams. I think after next season, Beasley could shoot up the rankings to around 20-25. It would still be tough to call him that franchise guy with Wade still doing his thing. If Beasley does mature, like the writer says, he could eventually be a top ten player on a list like this.

homestarunner93
05-17-2009, 12:18 PM
Where's Gerald Wallace? Would anyone honestly build a team around Ray Allen or Vince Carter over Wallace at this point in their careers?

ProdigyI
05-17-2009, 12:38 PM
Kevin Martin at 48 is a travesty IMO.

td0tsfinest
05-17-2009, 01:14 PM
It started of well, then it went south afterwards.

Marvin Williams...Really?

nolin
05-17-2009, 01:14 PM
Where's Gerald Wallace? Would anyone honestly build a team around Ray Allen or Vince Carter over Wallace at this point in their careers?

Would all you bobcats fans stop complaining about gerald wallace. Not to mention that hes hurt every year, but where has he took the bobcats? oh yeah to the lottery every year.

SwaggaIke
05-17-2009, 01:32 PM
Stays more injury prone right now as well

The Heat built a team where Odom was the man, and it went from lottery bound to the second round

By the second half of the 03-04 season Dwyane had taken over as the teams best player. Odom is too inconsistent to ever be a number 1 option on any team for a prolonged stretch.

fredv
05-17-2009, 01:52 PM
"Kobe did work against Battier and Artest, but with Dantay and a fierce Nugg fronline up next, he's not done."

Series note even over yet and its not like Kobe had a great series...

black1605
05-17-2009, 04:15 PM
Gerald missed 11 games last year due to his father's death, his grandmother's death, and a flagrant foul from Bynum...sorry he couldn't fight through a collapsed lung.

and why isn't Durant taking the Thunder anywhere but the lottery? what about Danny Granger? Monta Ellis? Rudy Gay?

i would rather have Gerald than the following players on that list, homerism aside, i was a fan of his when he was a King:

Kevin Martin (one dimensional)
Ray Allen (age)
Marvin Williams (what has he done?)
Vince Carter (old)
Al Hortford (if he makes the list, you might as well put Okafor...neither belong)
David West (aging, and simply not as good without Paul
Anthony Randolph (has done nothing to warrant being on this list)
Caron Butler (he is Gerald Wallace light, ad hasnt played 65 games since 05-06
Kevin Garnett (you simply aren't building around him at this point in his career)
Tim Duncan (same as above)


Gerald Wallace is still relativly young, his game is still developing...he is the number one rebounding SF, ahead of Lebron

he is one of 3 players EVER to average 2 steals, and 2 blocks for an entire season...the other two: David Robinson and Hakeem Olajuwon

just my two cents, but feel free to keep sleeping on him....we will be in the playoffs next year

Cubs Win
05-17-2009, 04:28 PM
just my two cents, but feel free to keep sleeping on him....we will be in the playoffs next year

I don't know, the East is only getting better, so the only real guarantees are the Cavs, Magic, Celtics, and Hawks. Then theres the Heat, 76ers, and Bulls who are probable. That leaves 1 spot for the Pistons, Pacers, Bobcats, Bucks, Nets, and Raptors. Even the Wizards will have to be taken seriously with their high draft pick to go with Jamison, Arenas, and Butler. So to say the Bobcats will be in the playoffs is a possibility, but 5 or 6 other teams have just a good a chance for that 8 spot.

Back on topic, Wallace isn't a top 50 guy to build around.

black1605
05-17-2009, 04:38 PM
and Al Horford is?

Cubs Win
05-17-2009, 04:48 PM
and Al Hortford is?

A lot more than Gerald Wallace, yeah. If you can't see that, you must not watch basketball.

black1605
05-17-2009, 04:53 PM
im sure ive seen more Hawks games than youve seen Bobcats games

Cubs Win
05-17-2009, 05:07 PM
im sure ive seen more Hawks games than youve seen Bobcats games

If you're resorting to that argument, it's clear that I know 10x more about basketball than you do. So yes, Al Horford (not Hortford as you called him) is much better to build a franchise around than Gerald Wallace.

Last year, Wallace averaged 16 pts and just under 8 rebs with less than 3 asts. He also had 1.7 stls and .9 blks. He will turn 27 this summer.

Horford is only 22, and has already 2 seasons under his belt. He's averaged about 11 pts and 9.5 rebs so far. He averages over a block a game and almost a steal per game with around 2 assists per game.

Then you have to consider the difficulty in finding a good center that can play defense in the paint and be effective on offense in comparison to a solid wingman. (It's much harder) Horford should continue to get better while Wallace is right around his peak and will begin to decline in a few years. Wallace has also NEVER played more than 72 games in his career. So can he be counted on to stay healthy? Not as much as Horford can for sure.

Why don't you take a look at the statistics before you start an argument based on your homerism next time.

black1605
05-17-2009, 05:11 PM
you're right, the "I KNOW MORE ABOUT BASKETBALL THAN YOU!!!" argument is way more legit....and when you add the spelling aspect, you're argument becomes nearly flawless

congratulations

i will take Wallace over Horford any day

Cubs Win
05-17-2009, 05:17 PM
you're right, the "I KNOW MORE ABOUT BASKETBALL THAN YOU!!!" argument is way more legit....and when you add the spelling aspect, you're argument becomes nearly flawless

congratulations

i will take Wallace over Horford any day

And that's why you'll end up with a perenial lottery team like the Bobcats instead of a No. 4 seed like the Hawks.

And I like how you avoided all the stats I gave that proved my argument while sticking to your elementary "I'm right, no matter what the stats say" argument.

black1605
05-17-2009, 05:21 PM
i don't know what stats you want me to adress exactly...you stated them and made no argument....and i'm not trying to say anything is right or wrong, i've said from the get go that I would take him....you are the one making these definite statements ans presenting them as fact

typical delusional know-it-all bulls fan

mrblisterdundee
05-17-2009, 05:21 PM
Brandon Roy should be ranked higher, considering he's the third best shooting/combo guard after Kobe and Wade.

Cubs Win
05-17-2009, 05:28 PM
i don't know what stats you want me to adress exactly...you stated them and made no argument....and i'm not trying to say anything is right or wrong, i've said from the get go that I would take him....you are the one making these definite statements ans presenting them as fact

typical delusional know-it-all bulls fan

I brought up stats that proved my side of the argument, you were unable to. Because there are none. Any smart GM would take Horford over Wallace. You've yet to bring any substance to the argument. Just elementary level insults, such as the bolded in your quote above. Why don't you go watch some more below .500 basketball? Seems to happen a lot for the Bobcats.

black1605
05-17-2009, 05:32 PM
again, everything i said was clarified as opinion

i don't need stats to prove my opinion, but it's good to know you have been in contact with every GM in the league

Kings Faithful
05-17-2009, 05:43 PM
Id say that the last 20-30 players on that list are way out of place.

Cubs Win
05-17-2009, 05:48 PM
again, everything i said was clarified as opinion

i don't need stats to prove my opinion, but it's good to know you have been in contact with every GM in the league

Because you can't find stats to support your utterly biased opinion because there are none. Maybe you'll understand if you ever watch a winning season of basketball. I used stats to prove the superiority of my opinion. So let me know when the Bobcats sniff .500, you'll have watched a lot more basketball by then, so maybe you'll understand 1/10 of what I know now.

black1605
05-17-2009, 06:16 PM
pretty high any mighty considering the bulls were 1 loss short of being one of us inferior under .500 teams

and if you want stats

more points
only 1.5 rebounds less than a center
more assists
more steals
.5 blocks less than a center
better from the line
48% from the field with a much greater range
creates his own shots far more often than Horford

b_rad23
05-17-2009, 06:26 PM
Gerald missed 11 games last year due to his father's death, his grandmother's death, and a flagrant foul from Bynum...sorry he couldn't fight through a collapsed lung.

and why isn't Durant taking the Thunder anywhere but the lottery? what about Danny Granger? Monta Ellis? Rudy Gay?

i would rather have Gerald than the following players on that list, homerism aside, i was a fan of his when he was a King:

Kevin Martin (one dimensional)You have to take him, he is just on another level than G-Force
Ray Allen (age)
Marvin Williams (what has he done?)
Vince Carter (old)
Al Hortford (if he makes the list, you might as well put Okafor...neither belong) Very close
David West (aging, and simply not as good without Paul
Anthony Randolph (has done nothing to warrant being on this list)
Caron Butler (he is Gerald Wallace light, ad hasnt played 65 games since 05-06You have to take Caron. He's a much better player. I like Gerald, but I don't think there's a GM in the league that'd take him over Caron.
Kevin Garnett (you simply aren't building around him at this point in his career)
Tim Duncan (same as above) I'd take TD still. He's still a top 5 big man and he can lead a team and mentor your young bigs. He's too good of a player not to pick over G-Force at any age.


Gerald Wallace is still relativly young, his game is still developing...he is the number one rebounding SF, ahead of Lebron

he is one of 3 players EVER to average 2 steals, and 2 blocks for an entire season...the other two: David Robinson and Hakeem Olajuwon

just my two cents, but feel free to keep sleeping on him....we will be in the playoffs next year

I agree with everyone that I didn't write next to.

Gerald is one of my favorite players, but he's probably not a number one guy on a successful team.

nolin
05-17-2009, 09:46 PM
Gerald missed 11 games last year due to his father's death, his grandmother's death, and a flagrant foul from Bynum...sorry he couldn't fight through a collapsed lung.

and why isn't Durant taking the Thunder anywhere but the lottery? what about Danny Granger? Monta Ellis? Rudy Gay?

i would rather have Gerald than the following players on that list, homerism aside, i was a fan of his when he was a King:

Kevin Martin (one dimensional)
Ray Allen (age)
Marvin Williams (what has he done?)
Vince Carter (old)
Al Hortford (if he makes the list, you might as well put Okafor...neither belong)
David West (aging, and simply not as good without Paul
Anthony Randolph (has done nothing to warrant being on this list)
Caron Butler (he is Gerald Wallace light, ad hasnt played 65 games since 05-06
Kevin Garnett (you simply aren't building around him at this point in his career)
Tim Duncan (same as above)


Gerald Wallace is still relativly young, his game is still developing...he is the number one rebounding SF, ahead of Lebron

he is one of 3 players EVER to average 2 steals, and 2 blocks for an entire season...the other two: David Robinson and Hakeem Olajuwon

just my two cents, but feel free to keep sleeping on him....we will be in the playoffs next year

How is david West aging? your a homer that doesnt know anything about basketball. no team is going to build their franchise around wallace. im not saying hes a bad player but lets face it hes no franchise player and doesnt belong on the list homer.

black1605
05-17-2009, 10:01 PM
you guys are right

bleedo
05-17-2009, 10:27 PM
eric gordon 46? wow i think he should be top 20 just my opinion

theuuord
05-17-2009, 10:30 PM
eric gordon 46? wow i think he should be top 20 just my opinion

Eric Gordon is nowhere near the top 20 as far as franchise corners.

He should be higher than Anthony Randolph though.


Brandon Roy should be ranked higher, considering he's the third best shooting/combo guard after Kobe and Wade.

I'd actually take him over Kobe if I was building a franchise for a five-to-ten year plan. He's just so good at such a young age.

bleedo
05-17-2009, 10:35 PM
Eric Gordon is nowhere near the top 20 as far as franchise corners.

He should be higher than Anthony Randolph though.



I'd actually take him over Kobe if I was building a franchise for a five-to-ten year plan. He's just so good at such a young age.

why isnt he top 20 can score defend and is a star in the making

theuuord
05-17-2009, 10:38 PM
why isnt he top 20 can score defend and is a star in the making

no.

he can shoot.
he's a good shooter.


that's it.

you don't build around a guy who is only a good shooter.

bleedo
05-17-2009, 10:42 PM
no.

he can shoot.
he's a good shooter.


that's it.

you don't build around a guy who is only a good shooter.

you must never watched a clipper game he can shoot drive and defend only knock is size but he plays much bigger than his size

sciferguy
05-17-2009, 10:47 PM
I think wade needs to be lower because you don't want to build a team around a guy who gets injured all the time..he is great top 10 definately...just not #2 worthy...his health should be an issue there definately.

Bynum has the same health issue so he should be way lower...

Pao is too soft to build a team around...I think rondo should be ahead of him definately.

Whats up with durant over B. Roy??

I agree with the the G. Wallace arguement too

theuuord
05-17-2009, 10:47 PM
you must never watched a clipper game he can shoot drive and defend only knock is size but he plays much bigger than his size

I've watched a few Clippers games. I also watched him a lot in college. I also looked at the results of his game. He can't distribute, can't rebound, isn't a good defender, isn't a great slasher, and turns the ball over frequently.

He's a decent player. don't get me wrong. But there's no way he's in the top 20. I might not put him in the top 50.

bleedo
05-17-2009, 10:53 PM
I've watched a few Clippers games. I also watched him a lot in college. I also looked at the results of his game. He can't distribute, can't rebound, isn't a good defender, isn't a great slasher, and turns the ball over frequently.

He's a decent player. don't get me wrong. But there's no way he's in the top 20. I might not put him in the top 50.

i guess we just wont agree on this one

lakersrock
05-18-2009, 12:23 AM
I think it's pretty good. However, I would build around Bynum. He keeps showing flashes and if he had a team of 3P guys, cutters and a couple defenders like the Magic, it could work in a couple of years. That said, I'd put Durant #2. He's super young and he's already a better shooter than Wade and CP3 put together. The kid is gonna be a monster and it wouldn't surprise me in the least for him to get the Youngest to _____ Points records.

Baller1
05-18-2009, 12:57 AM
I think wade needs to be lower because you don't want to build a team around a guy who gets injured all the time..he is great top 10 definately...just not #2 worthy...his health should be an issue there definately.

Bynum has the same health issue so he should be way lower...

Pao is too soft to build a team around...I think rondo should be ahead of him definately.

Whats up with durant over B. Roy??

I agree with the the G. Wallace arguement too

Wade had one injury that happened to be very nagging. He's a worthy #2.

DreamShaker
05-18-2009, 03:02 AM
Roy should be top 5.

cmacmath
05-18-2009, 11:06 AM
That list became frustratingly bad after the first 20 or so...

So I guess this season still hasn't convinced people that Chauncey Billups is a top 15 player in this league?? What more does the guy have to do?? Should we trade him to the Clippers who have never been good and watch him take them to the WCF

Question...If Andrew Bynum and Rajon Rondo had a kid together, would that child be the most overrated human being ever??

For the record, Gerald Wallace is a hell of a player that fills EVERY stat category and does everything else that doesn't show up in the box score to help his team...don't compare Raja Bell, Raymond Felton and Boris Diaw to Josh Smith, Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby please...Gerald Wallace is like Josh Howard (3 years ago before JoHo went crazy) with slightly less scoring punch...and head coach in the league would love to have Wallace

b_rad23
05-18-2009, 12:11 PM
That list became frustratingly bad after the first 20 or so...

So I guess this season still hasn't convinced people that Chauncey Billups is a top 15 player in this league?? What more does the guy have to do?? Should we trade him to the Clippers who have never been good and watch him take them to the WCF

Question...If Andrew Bynum and Rajon Rondo had a kid together, would that child be the most overrated human being ever??

For the record, Gerald Wallace is a hell of a player that fills EVERY stat category and does everything else that doesn't show up in the box score to help his team...don't compare Raja Bell, Raymond Felton and Boris Diaw to Josh Smith, Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby please...Gerald Wallace is like Josh Howard (3 years ago before JoHo went crazy) with slightly less scoring punch...and head coach in the league would love to have Wallace


Yes to your question for sure.

You also just said that G-Force is like Josh Howard with lesss scoring punch. Well woud you build around Josh Howard? No. He's a 2nd or 3rd option at best. The same is true with Wallace.

He's great you just don't build around him (which is the topic).

masalex1205
05-18-2009, 12:27 PM
Melo over Rose and Roy?

No Gerald Wallace or Odom?

Rondo over Billups?

Greg Oden?

RIghhttt

masalex1205
05-18-2009, 12:32 PM
Gerald Wallace>>>Horford

mitch91
05-18-2009, 01:00 PM
kevin martin being so low??

i dont think he amazing, BUT i dont think he deserved to be 48!

if thats the case then i feel bad for the kings fans!