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View Full Version : Does Trevor Ariza ever get enough credit?



LakeRBaller007
05-09-2009, 04:19 AM
He's been almost close to a Top 3 player in the steals category, and in the playoffs he is 15-29 from the 3-pt land as efficient as anyone can be from the 3-point strike.

He's averaged 12/5/3 and 2.1SPG so far in the playoffs.. his worse case scenario as a player is gonna be James Posey IMO and best case scenario is Michael Cooper.

ink
05-09-2009, 04:21 AM
Believe me, a few teams have their eye on him as a FA.

DreamShaker
05-09-2009, 04:22 AM
Cooper...no. Posey...maybe.

Draco
05-09-2009, 04:24 AM
He's been almost close to a Top 3 player in the steals category, and in the playoffs he is 15-29 from the 3-pt land as efficient as anyone can be from the 3-point strike.

He's averaged 12/5/3 and 2.1SPG so far in the playoffs.. his worse case scenario as a player is gonna be James Posey IMO and best case scenario is Michael Cooper.

There are a number of players on the Lakers who could get more credit if Kobe was a team player. IMO, Kobe would shoot the Laker's out of any given win if the rest of his team werent talented enough to prevent him from doing so.

Becks2307
05-09-2009, 04:32 AM
Ariza is nasty with the steals...just nasty..that dude has come quick hands

ARMIN12NBA
05-09-2009, 04:34 AM
There are a number of players on the Lakers who could get more credit if Kobe was a team player. IMO, Kobe would shoot the Laker's out of any given win if the rest of his team werent talented enough to prevent him from doing so.

:rolleyes: That is why Ariza was a scrub with the Magic and has now emerged as a very good playoff starter and a great role player for a championship caliber team.

He credits Bryant...I guess some people choose to ignore the facts and continue to spew the crap that is the fallacy that Bryant does not improve his teammates.

The evidence is staring you in the face...yet you claim Kobe is hindering Ariza's game? :laugh2:

It's seriously laughable. I'm laughing as I type muh man.

Draco
05-09-2009, 04:37 AM
:rolleyes: That is why Ariza was a scrub with the Magic and has now emerged as a very good playoff starter and a great role player for a championship caliber team.

He credits Bryant...I guess some people choose to ignore the facts and continue to spew the crap that is the fallacy that Bryant does not improve his teammates.

The evidence is staring you in the face...yet you claim Kobe is hindering Ariza's game? :laugh2:

It's seriously laughable. I'm laughing as I type muh man.

I never wrote anything about Bryant being able to improve his teamates. I've seen a number of games and plays in which the better decision would be to pass the ball to an open teammate rather than Kobe deciding to shoot and miss.

ARMIN12NBA
05-09-2009, 04:46 AM
I never wrote anything about Bryant being able to improve his teamates. I've seen a number of games and plays in which the better decision would be to pass the ball to an open teammate rather than Kobe deciding to shoot and miss.

I saw Ariza do the same thing twice in Game 3. What's the big deal? Every player does that.

How does that make it so that Kobe takes away the spotlight from Ariza? It doesn't. It is just a gigantic reach. Seriously muh man.

Draco
05-09-2009, 04:50 AM
I saw Ariza do the same thing twice in Game 3. What's the big deal? Every player does that.

How does that make it so that Kobe takes away the spotlight from Ariza? It doesn't. It is just a gigantic reach. Seriously muh man.

Actually I need to ammend my previous post. I think Kobe would shoot the Laker's out of games against teams who play good defense (typically the one's you see go far in the playoffs) if the rest of his team weren't talented enough to prevent him from doing so.

As far as Kobe taking the spotlight away from Ariza.. I already wrote that I think the Laker's could be a lot better if Kobe was a team player.

ARMIN12NBA
05-09-2009, 05:02 AM
Actually I need to ammend my previous post. I think Kobe would shoot the Laker's out of games against teams who play good defense (typically the one's you see go far in the playoffs) if the rest of his team weren't talented enough to prevent him from doing so.

:laugh: It's like baseball where the analysts go..."Well, he's a good pitcher when the wind is blowing east, the weather is over 70 degrees, and the batters don't have a good day."

Seriously, what is up with all the different "ifs" and whatnot?

He doesn't and hasn't. Most players on lesser talented teams are forced to shoot more because of the lack of talent supporting them. Nothing new. When they get talent around them, they are able to have teammates to back them up. It's nothing new and it doesn't only apply to Kobe.


As far as Kobe taking the spotlight away from Ariza.. I already wrote that I think the Laker's could be a lot better if Kobe was a team player.

Kobe is a team player. Luke Walton was explaining it best when he explained how often and how much Kobe sacrifices his stats to keep the Triangle moving, running, and making sure his teammates stay involved...

Draco
05-09-2009, 05:16 AM
:laugh: It's like baseball where the analysts go..."Well, he's a good pitcher when the wind is blowing east, the weather is over 70 degrees, and the batters don't have a good day."

Seriously, what is up with all the different "ifs" and whatnot?

He doesn't and hasn't. Most players on lesser talented teams are forced to shoot more because of the lack of talent supporting them. Nothing new. When they get talent around them, they are able to have teammates to back them up. It's nothing new and it doesn't only apply to Kobe.

Your analogy doesn't address the point of my post. I'm not talking about weather conditions that change from day to day. The Laker's have offensively talented players and Kobe could utilize them if he wanted to. It's not in his DNA, he's a narcissist who isn't talented enough or not physically gifted enough (ie. hand size or whatever) to drive to the rim for high % shots (on a continual basis during a game) against teams that play good defense. So he remains on the perimeter. There are times during a game against a good defensive team where the better decision would be to pass to the open play (Pau's an excellent choice) rather than chuck up a shot that misses.



Kobe is a team player. Luke Walton was explaining it best when he explained how often and how much Kobe sacrifices his stats to keep the Triangle moving, running, and making sure his teammates stay involved...

Right.. and as ESPN would have me believe, Kobe doesn't trust always trust his teammates, etc. I'm not in that camp that believes that theory.

ARMIN12NBA
05-09-2009, 05:33 AM
Your analogy doesn't address the point of my post. I'm not talking about weather conditions that change from day to day. The Laker's have offensively talented players and Kobe could utilize them if he wanted to.

He most definitely does...under the parameters of the Triangle. Don't expect Kobe to bring up the ball every play and do P & R all day long because that is not in the Lakers game plan. There are different trinkets that Phil has installed, but that is it.


It's not in his DNA, he's a narcissist who isn't talented enough or not physically gifted enough (ie. hand size or whatever) to drive to the rim for high % shots (on a continual basis during a game) against teams that play good defense.

1. You have a LARGE misunderstanding of what DNA is.

2. He isn't talented enough to drive to the basket? OK there buddy.

3. He isn't physically gifted enough? True.

Here is the thing: Kobe does continually drive to the basket when needed. No player in the NBA drives continually, as in every single play. It just doesn't happen. Many different factors go into why Kobe may not drive as much, but it is not because he can't do it against good defenses or he is a narcissist.

1. Kobe is playing within the game plan and Triple Post Offense. A lot of the time, his job is not to drive to the basket continually. That is just the deal.

2. In the years in which Kobe drove to the basket as a large majority, he ended up getting injured for a large majority of the time. Kobe understands his body and how to utilize it. If that means driving less and not taking the risk of injury then he takes it.

3. Kobe does not get the same amount of calls under the basket. He isn't going to continually get to the rim to get hacked with no call.

Now this is for you: THIS ISN'T ****ING NBA LIVE!!! Players don't just put their head down and plow their way to the basket. It doesn't happen! Kobe can only do so much in terms of driving to the basket and he is one of the best at mixing up his game, which keeps defenses honest.


So he remains on the perimeter. There are times during a game against a good defensive team where the better decision would be to pass to the open play (Pau's an excellent choice) rather than chuck up a shot that misses.

Like I said, every player has done that. Ariza did the same thing last night muh man. Where is the outcry against him? Kobe is only a human being. Isn't it conceivable that he may not see the open man and decided to take a shot?

BTW--He makes that shot too. :eyebrow:


Right.. and as ESPN would have me believe, Kobe doesn't trust always trust his teammates, etc. I'm not in that camp that believes that theory.

Good to know...except that you seem to think that Kobe does not trust his teammates. :laugh2:

Draco
05-09-2009, 05:37 AM
He most definitely does...under the parameters of the Triangle. Don't expect Kobe to bring up the ball every play and do P & R all day long because that is not in the Lakers game plan. There are different trinkets that Phil has installed, but that is it.



1. You have a LARGE misunderstanding of what DNA is.

2. He isn't talented enough to drive to the basket? OK there buddy.

3. He isn't physically gifted enough? True.

Here is the thing: Kobe does continually drive to the basket when needed. No player in the NBA drives continually, as in every single play. It just doesn't happen. Many different factors go into why Kobe may not drive as much, but it is not because he can't do it against good defenses or he is a narcissist.

I was giving you more credit than you deserve thinking being colloquial wouldn't invite sarcasm. At any rate, do you really believe I meant, "every single play." We're obviously coming to the end of this conversation since you're taking a very literal interpretation with how I express myself in my posts.



1. Kobe is playing within the game plan and Triple Post Offense. A lot of the time, his job is not to drive to the basket continually. That is just the deal.

2. In the years in which Kobe drove to the basket as a large majority, he ended up getting injured for a large majority of the time. Kobe understands his body and how to utilize it. If that means driving less and not taking the risk of injury then he takes it.

3. Kobe does not get the same amount of calls under the basket. He isn't going to continually get to the rim to get hacked with no call.

Now this is for you: THIS ISN'T ****ING NBA LIVE!!! Players don't just put their head down and plow their way to the basket. It doesn't happen! Kobe can only do so much in terms of driving to the basket and he is one of the best at mixing up his game, which keeps defenses honest.



Like I said, every player has done that. Ariza did the same thing last night muh man. Where is the outcry against him? Kobe is only a human being. Isn't it conceivable that he may not see the open man and decided to take a shot?

BTW--He makes that shot too. :eyebrow:



Good to know...except that you seem to think that Kobe does not trust his teammates. :laugh2:

Interesting point of view. I guess we're done. :)

ARMIN12NBA
05-09-2009, 05:39 AM
I was giving you more credit than you deserve thinking being colloquial wouldn't invite sarcasm. At any rate, do you really believe I meant, "every single play." We're obviously coming to the end of this conversation since you're taking a very literal interpretation with how I express myself in my posts.



Interesting point of view. I guess we're done. :)

Good job of refuting my post. :smoking:

Draco
05-09-2009, 05:42 AM
Good job of refuting my post. :smoking:

You "won", good job.

pete_one
05-09-2009, 05:42 AM
ariza can be a ron artest

ARMIN12NBA
05-09-2009, 05:43 AM
You "won", good job.

:dance:

Philly76
05-09-2009, 06:13 AM
he is faster than artest, better 3pt shooter i think... He made a huge progress over the past 2 years, and one of the best defenders in the league.. He has my respect, bigger than any laker maybe.. ;)

Lakergirl24
05-09-2009, 06:41 AM
There are a number of players on the Lakers who could get more credit if Kobe was a team player. IMO, Kobe would shoot the Laker's out of any given win if the rest of his team werent talented enough to prevent him from doing so.

Stop hatin. Kobe wouldnt have won mvp last year if he hadnt grown into the team player he is. Ariza doesnt get enough credit because we have other stars like kobe, gasol, odom, and bynum who often outshine him. Same way i dont think shannon brown is being given enough credit.

Draco
05-09-2009, 06:48 AM
Stop hatin. Kobe wouldnt have won mvp last year if he hadnt grown into the team player he is. Ariza doesnt get enough credit because we have other stars like kobe, gasol, odom, and bynum who often outshine him. Same way i dont think shannon brown is being given enough credit.

I probably wouldn't agree with the how the sportswriters who voted Kobe MVP see Kobe as a player... (anymore than I could reconcile Colorado Kobe with NBA Cares Kobe.. since you brought up "hatin", I didn't want to disappoint ya ;) ) FWIW, Lebron would have been my pick for last years MVP.

LakerMikeNJ
05-09-2009, 07:12 AM
I probably wouldn't agree with the how the sportswriters who voted Kobe MVP see Kobe as a player... (anymore than I could reconcile Colorado Kobe with NBA Cares Kobe.. since you brought up "hatin", I didn't want to disappoint ya ;) ) FWIW, Lebron would have been my pick for last years MVP.


Good point, Kobe is the only NBA player that has ever cheated on his wife. Ridiculous.

Staying on point for this thread, Trevor has made some great progress this year. He's a great fit on the Lakers. I don't know if i'd put him in the Ron Artest category just yet. It will be interesting to see what value he has in the open market. As a Laker fan, I just hope nobody offers him a huge contract. I'm curious what everyone thinks he's worth.

Draco
05-09-2009, 07:15 AM
Good point, Kobe is the only NBA player that has ever cheated on his wife. Ridiculous.

Staying on point for this thread, Trevor has made some great progress this year. He's a great fit on the Lakers. I don't know if i'd put him in the Ron Artest category just yet. It will be interesting to see what value he has in the open market. As a Laker fan, I just hope nobody offers him a huge contract. I'm curious what everyone thinks he's worth.

Staying on topic; What's ridiculous is there being any doubt that Ariza is not comparable to Artest or anywhere close to... Straying from the topic; you missed my point..

LakerMikeNJ
05-09-2009, 07:24 AM
Staying on topic; What's ridiculous is there being any doubt that Ariza is not comparable to Artest or anywhere close to... Straying from the topic; you missed my point..

i didn't say he wasn't anywhere close to Artest, i just think Artest is a better overall player right now based on his body of work. When Artest doesn't try to carry his team, he's very effective. Problem is he tries to do too much sometimes and gets caught up in individual battles. Don't have to worry about that with Trevor, but keep in mind he has only been producing this year and I'd hate to jump the gun here.

How much do you think he'll be offered as a FA?

Draco
05-09-2009, 07:26 AM
i didn't say he wasn't anywhere close to Artest, i just think Artest is a better overall player right now based on his body of work. When Artest doesn't try to carry his team, he's very effective. Problem is he tries to do too much sometimes and gets caught up in individual battles. Don't have to worry about that with Trevor, but keep in mind he has only been producing this year and I'd hate to jump the gun here.

Putting aside Artest's body of work he's done more in his rookie year alone than Trevor's done in any single year of his 7 year career.

LakerMikeNJ
05-09-2009, 07:33 AM
i'm guessing i misread your post. sounded like you were saying he was comparable to artest and i was stating pretty much the same thing you did, that Trevor hasn't really accomplished anything yet.

Draco
05-09-2009, 07:35 AM
i'm guessing i misread your post. sounded like you were saying he was comparable to artest and i was stating pretty much the same thing you did, that Trevor hasn't really accomplished anything yet.

No worries.. I might have misunderstood your post in which you mentioned that Trevor wasn't in Artest's category "just yet". I wouldn't hold my breath on the potential of someone who's been in the league for 7 years.

LakerMikeNJ
05-09-2009, 07:42 AM
I bet some team will overpay him though based on his play in the last half of the season and the playoffs. I still think he has some room to improve though. He's only 23 and has been in the league for only 4 years.

Draco
05-09-2009, 07:46 AM
I bet some team will overpay him though based on his play in the last half of the season and the playoffs. I still think he has some room to improve though. He's only 23 and has been in the league for only 4 years.

My bad.. I wasn't looking carefully at NBA.com's stats. They have a stat line for different teams he's been on during the same season. Although even at 4 years and 23 years old it's looking unlikely that he'll be as productive as Artest.

BTownTeamsRKing
05-09-2009, 08:47 AM
Ariza has given the Lakers the boost they needed. Good player for sure. playing his role perfectly.

JordansBulls
05-09-2009, 08:59 AM
He's been almost close to a Top 3 player in the steals category, and in the playoffs he is 15-29 from the 3-pt land as efficient as anyone can be from the 3-point strike.

He's averaged 12/5/3 and 2.1SPG so far in the playoffs.. his worse case scenario as a player is gonna be James Posey IMO and best case scenario is Michael Cooper.

He is a good player that just needed a good system to play in.

BALLER71
05-09-2009, 09:02 AM
He's getting minutes. Simple as that.

Kakaroach
05-09-2009, 09:09 AM
I think he gets too much credit. He has knocked down a lot of threes, and he does get a lot of steals, but he is not a top-tier defender just yet like everyone is making him out to be. Still, he has a lot of potential on both sides of the ball.

jimbobjarree
05-09-2009, 11:13 AM
I'm sure the Laker fans are hyping him up enough anyway

Trouble87
05-09-2009, 11:15 AM
League is taking notice of him... he's just starting to come on as a player.

Isiah Thomas draft pick .... man has a great eye for talent

op12
05-09-2009, 11:29 AM
i love coming into a thread and seeing 2 people argue back and forth about an off topic and take up a whole page.

anyway, on topic ariza can be a posey type player if he can develop a consistent jumper and 3. he has the athletic ability to be better and is already a great defensive player. he just needs to make better decisions with the ball sometimes and that will come with more experience.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-09-2009, 11:31 AM
I think he's overrated.

mrmike101
05-09-2009, 12:01 PM
:rolleyes: That is why Ariza was a scrub with the Magic and has now emerged as a very good playoff starter and a great role player for a championship caliber team.

He credits Bryant...I guess some people choose to ignore the facts and continue to spew the crap that is the fallacy that Bryant does not improve his teammates.

The evidence is staring you in the face...yet you claim Kobe is hindering Ariza's game? :laugh2:

It's seriously laughable. I'm laughing as I type muh man.

Your not laughing!! Your feeling are hurt, sarcasm is not a good enough cover for your emotional instability. Kobe has great skills but has earned his negaitive attention fair and square, no need to put your emotions behind this guy.

mrmike101
05-09-2009, 12:08 PM
:laugh: It's like baseball where the analysts go..."well, he's a good pitcher when the wind is blowing east, the weather is over 70 degrees, and the batters don't have a good day."

seriously, what is up with all the different "ifs" and whatnot?

He doesn't and hasn't. Most players on lesser talented teams are forced to shoot more because of the lack of talent supporting them. Nothing new. When they get talent around them, they are able to have teammates to back them up. It's nothing new and it doesn't only apply to kobe.



Kobe is a team player. Luke walton was explaining it best when he explained how often and how much kobe sacrifices his stats to keep the triangle moving, running, and making sure his teammates stay involved...

hey buddy imagine this senario if kobe and lebron switched places lakers would be undefeated and kobe would be asking for a trade. Who do you think is the better example of a true player/team player?

Storch
05-09-2009, 12:11 PM
hey buddy imagine this senario if kobe and lebron switched places lakers would be undefeated and kobe would be asking for a trade. Who do you think is the better example of a true player/team player?

You obviously dont know a thing about the triangle offense and the lakers. Youre just a kobe hater.

Squad13
05-09-2009, 12:18 PM
There are a number of players on the Lakers who could get more credit if Kobe was a team player. IMO, Kobe would shoot the Laker's out of any given win if the rest of his team werent talented enough to prevent him from doing so.

LMAO, this guy is the biggest Kobe hater alive, get a life buddy.

BIGBREED
05-09-2009, 12:38 PM
Kobe makes him better! Lets see how he finishes the playoffs. You have to be a champion to be given credit, not just a role player! He's stepped up his game and he has improve but he has to put more than just one year of success under his belt to get respect!

*****STARS ARE MADE IN THE PLAYOFFS*****

BIGBREED
05-09-2009, 12:45 PM
Your not laughing!! Your feeling are hurt, sarcasm is not a good enough cover for your emotional instability. Kobe has great skills but has earned his negaitive attention fair and square, no need to put your emotions behind this guy.

Dude, shut up! You're wrong! You're a Kobe hater and it shows! All NBA players respect KOBE. The only negative attention Kobe gets are from his haters and some people from Utah!

gangis2169
05-09-2009, 01:03 PM
I probably wouldn't agree with the how the sportswriters who voted Kobe MVP see Kobe as a player... (anymore than I could reconcile Colorado Kobe with NBA Cares Kobe.. since you brought up "hatin", I didn't want to disappoint ya ;) ) FWIW, Lebron would have been my pick for last years MVP.

I agree let him have it every year. Lebron is to worried about making a new sitcom on ESPN and the NBA. During each game its like watching a chessy episode of "Knight Rider" The guy is a great player but he needs to stop acting for the camera's at every point in the game. I mean when I watch the games even when he drives to the lane and doesnt make the shot and gets a foul he starts walking all fast and acting like a clown. No wonder why Lebron and Jay-Z are good friends they are both corny as hell. But its smart, thats what Lebro-NBA wants and he is giving it to them.Honesly the more I watch his mannerisms and actions and the way he speaks he kinda comes off gay to me. I say let Lebron do what he does let him travel to the lane, let him get 99% of fouls called for him, etc. etc. It all dont matter because hopefully when there done with there vacation in the Eastern Conference Playoffs and if the Lakers can get to the championship we will see why he is still a kid and still is not ready to become a championship.

Kakaroach
05-09-2009, 01:11 PM
I'm sure the Laker fans are hyping him up enough anyway x2 But I wouldn't be surprised if some teams went after him with a lot of money.

LakersOrNothing
05-09-2009, 01:36 PM
League is taking notice of him... he's just starting to come on as a player.

Isiah Thomas draft pick .... man has a great eye for talent

Imagine if Ariza was the player he is now when Isiah drafted him. Ariza would of been earning the max deal right now :D

droalex
05-09-2009, 01:47 PM
lol^

mrmike101
05-09-2009, 01:50 PM
I agree let him have it every year. Lebron is to worried about making a new sitcom on ESPN and the NBA. During each game its like watching a chessy episode of "Knight Rider" The guy is a great player but he needs to stop acting for the camera's at every point in the game. I mean when I watch the games even when he drives to the lane and doesnt make the shot and gets a foul he starts walking all fast and acting like a clown. No wonder why Lebron and Jay-Z are good friends they are both corny as hell. But its smart, thats what Lebro-NBA wants and he is giving it to them.Honesly the more I watch his mannerisms and actions and the way he speaks he kinda comes off gay to me. I say let Lebron do what he does let him travel to the lane, let him get 99% of fouls called for him, etc. etc. It all dont matter because hopefully when there done with there vacation in the Eastern Conference Playoffs and if the Lakers can get to the championship we will see why he is still a kid and still is not ready to become a championship.

Whoa whoa whoa lebron is giving the people what they want. At least he is original kobe is the biggest michael jordan wanna be out!! He makes tough guy faces like mike but guess what michael never lost the finals nor did he ever cry during them, nor did he ever get punched in the face by chris childs, or get body slammed by reggie miller kobe is SOFT thats why his team is soft.
Lebron is the game!!! The new legacy and we will probably be buying lebron's within the next 10 years. Lol jay is definatly a corn ball but thats what gets you paid STOP HATING!!!

lexworld2009
05-09-2009, 02:01 PM
I probably wouldn't agree with the how the sportswriters who voted Kobe MVP see Kobe as a player... (anymore than I could reconcile Colorado Kobe with NBA Cares Kobe.. since you brought up "hatin", I didn't want to disappoint ya ;) ) FWIW, Lebron would have been my pick for last years MVP.


Fisrt off Kobe or KG were the only choices for MVP last year and throw in CP3 , but Lebron are you kidding me he barely had his team to what 50 wins in an eastern conference that had what 4 winning teams, get over that one pal Kobe had the Lakers in the top 3 spots out west last year even before Bynum went down and they traded for Gasol, it was the growth of his team and him trusting him that was the difference so trash Kbe all ya want , but hey Jordan got Doug collins fired when he was coaching the Bulls, and Magic got a coach fired too, so the fact that everyone says Kobe did this and that just give it up he is the best player in the game regardless of how much ya luv anyone else he has no counterpart other then the greats of NBA past

NFLNBA
05-09-2009, 02:07 PM
I never wrote anything about Bryant being able to improve his teamates. I've seen a number of games and plays in which the better decision would be to pass the ball to an open teammate rather than Kobe deciding to shoot and miss.

Derrick Rose is such a better player that he would make Ariza look like Kobe right?

Kobe is the villian of the nba= fact

Chronz
05-09-2009, 04:24 PM
I came into this thread thinking yes, but Im coming out of it thinking hes overrated now.



My bad.. I wasn't looking carefully at NBA.com's stats. They have a stat line for different teams he's been on during the same season. Although even at 4 years and 23 years old it's looking unlikely that he'll be as productive as Artest.

Thats what I said about Granger at 24, its what people said of Artest at 23 sorta, I dont think Artest is some unreachable plateau for a guy of Arizas age. They are totally different players though, no one is really like Artest but in terms of impact he could achieve that. Though I doubt it, cuz I never see Ariza's game developing offensively, he has no handles, not overly creative with his drives from what I can tell, and without too many trick shots in the paint to really get away with it.

As for Kobe having any kind of impact on Ariza, there really is none. Because most of Ariza's effectiveness/impact comes from the defensive side and from hustling his *** off, Kobes presence doesnt bother him. He still plays his game whether hes getting kickouts from Pau or from Lamar. Though I will say playing with Pau does help him more than any other Laker.

KW93KB24
05-09-2009, 04:48 PM
dude armin12nba stop talking to draco, he is the biggest kobe hater on the planet and i dont know why. I bet all you kobe haters would kill to be him for a day

ARMIN12NBA
05-09-2009, 04:51 PM
hey buddy imagine this senario if kobe and lebron switched places lakers would be undefeated and kobe would be asking for a trade. Who do you think is the better example of a true player/team player?

I'd like you to meet the Triple Post Offense and then see you completely change your opinion to the point of no return.

KW93KB24
05-09-2009, 04:55 PM
well back on topic i think ariza is a great player and in the future he get a lot more credit than he does right now, he is going to be very good later on in his career.

Vinny642
05-09-2009, 05:49 PM
Iight Posey for Ariza because im sick and tired of Posey inconsistency

Vinny642
05-09-2009, 06:02 PM
no, its not that serious

Draco
05-09-2009, 06:08 PM
As for Kobe having any kind of impact on Ariza, there really is none. Because most of Ariza's effectiveness/impact comes from the defensive side and from hustling his *** off, Kobes presence doesnt bother him. He still plays his game whether hes getting kickouts from Pau or from Lamar. Though I will say playing with Pau does help him more than any other Laker.

You're probably right.

Vinny642
05-09-2009, 06:11 PM
That makes no sense whatsoever. How does one masturbate to himself?


Go ahead no one is stopping you from clicking that report button.

Idk its a little weird

ARMIN12NBA
05-09-2009, 06:15 PM
As for Kobe having any kind of impact on Ariza, there really is none. Because most of Ariza's effectiveness/impact comes from the defensive side and from hustling his *** off, Kobes presence doesnt bother him. He still plays his game whether hes getting kickouts from Pau or from Lamar. Though I will say playing with Pau does help him more than any other Laker.

:confused: When he came to the Lakers, Pau wasn't even there. His play increased to the point where his first two full months with the Lakers went like this:

7/4/2 on 57% shooting.

7/5/1 on 47% shooting.

There is no Gasol and he improved VASTLY when he went to the Lakers in all aspects--offense and defense.

Nice try at propaganda Chronz. I almost fell for it until I realized that Ariza's vast improvement with the Lakers came when Pau wasn't even there.

:laugh:

(and the false discrediting of Kobe Bryant's impact continues...)

ink
05-09-2009, 07:07 PM
I guess this thread proves he never gets enough credit. People can't even talk about him all the way through to the end. :laugh2: Poor guy ...

Vinny642
05-09-2009, 07:11 PM
lol i got side tracked

superkegger
05-09-2009, 07:15 PM
He's a great hustle player who has improved his shooting vastly since coming to the Lakers. He's a great atlete and a disruptive force defensively. He's an ok on ball defender, and a great help defender. He's shown himself worthy to be a starter on a championship caliber team, and while he has offensive liabilities, such as still not being a "knock down" shooter consistently, and while he can get into the paint, he still lacks that I guess what you would call creativeness or craftiness to finish plays in the paint without a pretty clear path for a dunk or layup. He is what he is, and as far the credit he gets, I think he gets just about the right amount.

Trouble87
05-09-2009, 08:38 PM
Imagine if Ariza was the player he is now when Isiah drafted him. Ariza would of been earning the max deal right now :D

Thats going a lil too far... superkegger had his abilities about right; far from a max deal with his skills.

Worth a lil over 4 mill IMO

superkegger
05-09-2009, 08:49 PM
Thats going a lil too far... superkegger had his abilities about right; far from a max deal with his skills.

Worth a lil over 4 mill IMO

I think it's a little higher than that, around the 5-7 range, considering his age, he'll get better, so he's worth more than 4 IMO.

EddieB
05-09-2009, 08:59 PM
his defense and outside shooting is why we are so much better than last year

MickeyMgl
05-09-2009, 09:26 PM
There are a number of players on the Lakers who could get more credit if Kobe was a team player. IMO, Kobe would shoot the Laker's out of any given win if the rest of his team werent talented enough to prevent him from doing so.

This is good comedy. Players tend to play better next to Bryant. Why aren't they blossoming when they're away from him?

Vinny642
05-09-2009, 09:34 PM
So? Posey for Ariza?

superkegger
05-09-2009, 09:42 PM
So? Posey for Ariza?

Absolutely not. Posey is past his prime, and while he brings things the Lakers could use, he will start to fall off in no time, while Ariza will start to enter the prime of his career.

Vinny642
05-09-2009, 09:50 PM
Absolutely not. Posey is past his prime, and while he brings things the Lakers could use, he will start to fall off in no time, while Ariza will start to enter the prime of his career.

Posey and peja for Ariza and Farmar and someone else to fill up money?

rabueed
05-09-2009, 09:52 PM
Absolutely not. Posey is past his prime, and while he brings things the Lakers could use, he will start to fall off in no time, while Ariza will start to enter the prime of his career.

x2

GregOden#1
05-09-2009, 10:21 PM
This is good comedy. Players tend to play better next to Bryant. Why aren't they blossoming when they're away from him?
Caron Butler.

mrmike101
05-09-2009, 11:06 PM
I guess this thread proves he never gets enough credit. People can't even talk about him all the way through to the end. :laugh2: Poor guy ...

LOL yea:smoking:

Chronz
05-10-2009, 12:28 AM
:confused: When he came to the Lakers, Pau wasn't even there. His play increased to the point where his first two full months with the Lakers went like this:

7/4/2 on 57% shooting.

7/5/1 on 47% shooting.

There is no Gasol and he improved VASTLY when he went to the Lakers in all aspects--offense and defense.
I said Pau has the greatest impact on Ariza's game, I never said he didnt play better alongside Kobe or anyone on the Lakers for that matter, the triangle tends to maximize the efficiency of everyone in it, but since you brought up stats look up his production W/Pau compared to W/Kobe.



Nice try at propaganda Chronz. I almost fell for it until I realized that Ariza's vast improvement with the Lakers came when Pau wasn't even there.

There is no propaganda nor is there anything else to fall for, just stating my opinion on Ariza playing his best ball when Pau is on the floor. Only a hardcore Kobephile would feel as if I slighted Kobe in any way.



:laugh:
(and the false discrediting of Kobe Bryant's impact continues...)

What false discrediting? Didnt you just see my post where I said Kobe DOESNT hold Ariza down? I think your getting very paranoid

GregOden#1
05-10-2009, 12:47 AM
Haha Kobephile, I haven't that word in so long.

kblo247
05-10-2009, 12:47 AM
There are a number of players on the Lakers who could get more credit if Kobe was a team player. IMO, Kobe would shoot the Laker's out of any given win if the rest of his team werent talented enough to prevent him from doing so.

Sure you aren't talking about John Salmon and Ben Gordon

CP3 The Great
05-10-2009, 02:45 AM
average when he played for the knicks and magic under kobes touch he is a great player. but it is FA time for mr. ariza and LA better hope kobe don't terminate his contract, then there will be no LA hahaha

LakersOrNothing
05-10-2009, 02:54 AM
Thats going a lil too far... superkegger had his abilities about right; far from a max deal with his skills.

Worth a lil over 4 mill IMO

Should of made a it a bit more clear... If Isiah was still the President of the Knicks, and for whatever reason Ariza was performing the way he is now, he would of probably gotten a max deal from Isiah... :smoking:

LakeShowRaider
05-10-2009, 03:05 AM
Actually I need to ammend my previous post. I think Kobe would shoot the Laker's out of games against teams who play good defense (typically the one's you see go far in the playoffs) if the rest of his team weren't talented enough to prevent him from doing so.

As far as Kobe taking the spotlight away from Ariza.. I already wrote that I think the Laker's could be a lot better if Kobe was a team player.

To say Kobe isnt a team player shows your ignorance towards the game of basketball.

Maybe in his earlier years but Kobe is consumate team player. You don't go as far as he did in the playoffs without being a team player.

If he wasn't a team player Gasol would be constantly pissed and Lakers would lose a lot more games.

I dont see your basis for saying he's a selfish player. What proof do you have??? And dont try and go 5 years ago and crap, Im talking about now!

FaceDown91
05-10-2009, 04:14 AM
I never thought Ariza would improve this much. When he was on the knicks and magic, he had no jumpshot, an ok slasher and was only known as a good defender, and now his jumpshot as improved greatly along with slashing and the defending abilities.

I'm not a laker fan, in fact i dislike them but i don't hate either. Anyway IMO, i think him playing under kobe has had some effect on his game. I guess playing with him made him try to fix his jumpshots.

He's becoming an all around type of player. Now as far as how much credit, i think it's about as right as it is. I mean hey, there are already a few comments of ppl calling him overrated so he must be doing something right :laugh2:

ARMIN12NBA
05-10-2009, 04:29 AM
Caron Butler.

Caron before Kobe: 9 PPG/5 RPG/2 APG on 38 FG% shooting.

Caron with Kobe: 16 PPG/6 RPG/2 APG on 45 FG% shooting.

:eyebrow: And Caron has always credited Kobe for helping him on his game. Nice try.

GregOden#1
05-10-2009, 04:42 AM
Caron before Kobe: 9 PPG/5 RPG/2 APG on 38 FG% shooting.

Caron with Kobe: 16 PPG/6 RPG/2 APG on 45 FG% shooting.

:eyebrow: And Caron has always credited Kobe for helping him on his game. Nice try.

:laugh: You're going to compare an injury plagued year where he played 7 less minutes per game than the year before? Why don't we take his rookie year instead?

15.4/5.1/2.7/50TS%/15.1PER <---Rookie year
15.5/5.8/1.9/53TS%/15.8PER <---Years with Lakers

Seriously, the lengths at which you go to to try and prove a point (like being dishonest with your arguments) is just sad.

ARMIN12NBA
05-10-2009, 04:52 AM
:laugh: You're going to compare an injury plagued year where he played 7 less minutes per game than the year before? Why don't we take his rookie year instead?

15.4/5.1/2.7/50TS%/15.1PER <---Rookie year
15.5/5.8/1.9/53TS%/15.8PER <---Years with Lakers

Seriously, the lengths at which you go to to try and prove a point (like being dishonest with your arguments) is just sad.

How about him shooting 41% from the field in his rookie year? His efficiency obviously went up as you even noted with the True Shooting Percentage.

Not to mention that he even credits Kobe a lot for his improvement on his game. They were best friends in L.A. (which made it even more ridiculous that they traded him for Kwame).

robdizzle3
05-10-2009, 05:06 AM
I think if anybody had Smush Parker,Brian Cook,Maurice Evans,Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown playing alot on the floor with you then I would be selfish as well,but even then they went to the playoffs.Kobe makes his teammates better by just stepping on the court.

robdizzle3
05-10-2009, 05:08 AM
Ariza has the chance to be more then just a role player.He still has room to improve his handles,driving ability,shot off the dribble and offensive IQ.Ariza is rather young and working with Mr.Gymrat himself Kobe the sky is the limit

drobe86
05-10-2009, 05:09 AM
You guys are comparing Trevor Ariza to James Posey? Thats comical. Ariza will never be as good as Posey the 2 time NBA champion. Posey is the ultimate role player that can play both forward positions. Ariza is younger and more athletic, but Poseys bball IQ and Defensive ability is off the charts. Furthermore Posey can guard anybody on the opposing team, as well as efficient post players. Posey usually guards the other teams best player(which is usually a sg or sf) But you can also use him vs. elite post players. Ariza's just a guy that hustles and benefits from the legend that is Kobe Bryant...

robdizzle3
05-10-2009, 05:20 AM
Posey has fallen off big time and he isnt that stopper anymore.I agree that he was a stopper,but basically now he is just another player in my book

FaceDown91
05-10-2009, 02:51 PM
You guys are comparing Trevor Ariza to James Posey? Thats comical. Ariza will never be as good as Posey..

I just stopped reading after that crap. lol u officially have no clue what u are talking just by stating that. Do u have any idea how overrated James Posey is? I already know Ariza is better then that piece of sh** already. I'm comparing ariza way better then that.

Chronz
05-10-2009, 03:21 PM
Ariza is already better than Posey

Chronz
05-10-2009, 04:31 PM
How about him shooting 41% from the field in his rookie year? His efficiency obviously went up as you even noted with the True Shooting Percentage.

Not to mention that he even credits Kobe a lot for his improvement on his game. They were best friends in L.A. (which made it even more ridiculous that they traded him for Kwame).

Yea but you expect players to improve upon their rookie season, just the same, you can say you expect players to improve as they enter their primes. Caron and Kobe wouldve been a better duo to keep around in the early going than Kobe and Odom, I dont know why they traded him, especially in the 2nd half stretch of the season. Kobe and Caron were combining for 50 every night, but the Lakers went 2-20 and they assumed it was because Lamar was missing, and that inflated his actual value.

Anyways, both of you guys are arguing nothing, Caron was going to improve regardless, dont try and credit anyone else for that aside from Caron himself.

PHX-SOXFAN
05-10-2009, 07:28 PM
he gets overblown by lakerfans. he's a nice role player who shoots 32% from threes andhe's always wide open. If he were a good shooter he would be at 40% for as often as he is wide open. he's not even james posey. he's overblown because of the amount of homer lakerfans who even praise peoplelike chris mihm and kwame brown when they are in a laker uni.

superkegger
05-10-2009, 07:35 PM
he gets overblown by lakerfans. he's a nice role player who shoots 32% from threes andhe's always wide open. If he were a good shooter he would be at 40% for as often as he is wide open. he's not even james posey. he's overblown because of the amount of homer lakerfans who even praise peoplelike chris mihm and kwame brown when they are in a laker uni.

when did we ever praice mihm or brown? :eyebrow:

PHX-SOXFAN
05-10-2009, 08:33 PM
when did we ever praice mihm or brown? :eyebrow:

1. when they were lakers
2. any time they'd crap in a 10 point game and the team would overacheive for a night.
3. in trade proposals for garnett, bosh, and just about anyone in another uni when the team was bad.

If you can't remember this, go back to this season and look at praise for players like shannon brown or luke walton. give me a break.:rolleyes:

superkegger
05-10-2009, 08:37 PM
no one ever praised kwame. Only time that ever happened is in the 05-06 playoffs when he tore the suns up.

I guess it wasn't so ridiculous to put Kwame in deals for another top big man, as he was the centerpiece in the gasol deal.

When Bynum went down last year, and Kwame came back as the starter, he received more boos when he touched the ball than any other player I have ever heard.

What do Shannon and luke have to do with this? Luke is a decent bench player. He routinely gets bashed when he's nowhere near as bad as Laker fans make him out to be. And a lot of Laker fans are high on Shannon Brown, yes. But it's because now that he's actually gotten a chance to play, and in a system that fits him, he's playing well.

Vinny642
05-11-2009, 12:08 AM
Kwame>> Bynum

Seriously though Bynum is quite disappointing; Peja and Posey for Ariza and a couple fillers?

MickeyMgl
05-13-2009, 03:00 PM
Caron Butler.

The year with the Lakers was the year his game blossomed. He's continued it from there.

MickeyMgl
05-13-2009, 03:16 PM
he gets overblown by lakerfans. he's a nice role player who shoots 32% from threes andhe's always wide open. If he were a good shooter he would be at 40% for as often as he is wide open. he's not even james posey. he's overblown because of the amount of homer lakerfans who even praise peoplelike chris mihm and kwame brown when they are in a laker uni.

It's all about 3-point shooting to you?

EFF
Ariza = 11.33
Posey = 10.37

Posey's a better 3-point shooter, and FT shooter. Ariza is better everywhere else. He's better around the basket, resulting in a higher FG%, and he is also better defensively.

When did this Kwame praise ever occur? I must have missed when Kwame was ever praised without being thoroughly shouted down.

Chronz
05-13-2009, 03:43 PM
I praised Kwame when he was a Laker, without him you guys dont make the playoffs that one year.

Nets fan 93
05-13-2009, 11:37 PM
If he was doing this on any other team...no one would care...
He gets too much Credit imo

GspLAL
05-14-2009, 07:04 PM
There are a number of players on the Lakers who could get more credit if Kobe was a team player. IMO, Kobe would shoot the Laker's out of any given win if the rest of his team werent talented enough to prevent him from doing so.

Lol you wannabe ESPN writers are pretty funny, one day he's a team player, the next he's a ball hog. Of course when he brings his team back from a 20 point deficit in the second half (Spurs last year) he's the deadliest player in the world, or lets go back in time, finals against Pacers game 4 when Shaq fouls out during OT, who puts the team on his back (at what the age of 22-24? cant remember) and leads them to a W. But every now and then when he tried to lead the team to victory and it doesnt work out, you wannabes come out saying he's not a team player, it's easy to point out the flaws of someone rather than the assets or talents.

mrblisterdundee
05-14-2009, 07:14 PM
He'll be getting more credit when the Lakers realize that they have no chance of winning a championship with the LeBron and the Cavaliers out there. Los Angeles will eventually rebuild. Ariza, Farmar, and Bynum will end up as the new core. They'll regularly get beat by the Blazers and Thunder.

Draco
05-14-2009, 07:16 PM
Lol you wannabe ESPN writers are pretty funny, one day he's a team player, the next he's a ball hog. Of course when he brings his team back from a 20 point deficit in the second half (Spurs last year) he's the deadliest player in the world, or lets go back in time, finals against Pacers game 4 when Shaq fouls out during OT, who puts the team on his back (at what the age of 22-24? cant remember) and leads them to a W. But every now and then when he tried to lead the team to victory and it doesnt work out, you wannabes come out saying he's not a team player, it's easy to point out the flaws of someone rather than the assets or talents.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8688601&postcount=261

So umm... what'd he find?

Incidentally, I never changed my opinion of Kobe.

GspLAL
05-14-2009, 07:18 PM
haha whats your point? does that mean I think he's a bad leader? hell no, was I frustrated at the time? hell yeah. D Howard called out his coach, but does that mean he wants him off the team or he wants to leave the team?

Draco
05-14-2009, 07:21 PM
haha whats your point? does that mean I think he's a bad leader? hell no, was I frustrated at the time? hell yeah. D Howard called out his coach, but does that mean he wants him off the team or he wants to leave the team?

Thanks for clearing that up.. :laugh:

GspLAL
05-14-2009, 07:22 PM
Thanks for clearing that up.. :laugh:

Thanks for dodging everything I said.. :laugh:

dandman1021
05-14-2009, 07:23 PM
my second favorite player on the lakers and would love to see him in a heat uniform

Draco
05-14-2009, 07:23 PM
Thanks for dodging everything I said.. :laugh:

Well, if i see poop I'm not gonna step in it. :rolleyes:

Vinny642
05-14-2009, 07:27 PM
Well, if i see poop I'm not gonna step in it. :rolleyes:

Hahaha I never heard that saying lol

Draco
05-14-2009, 07:29 PM
Hahaha I never heard that saying lol

And seriously.. the guy compared me to ESPN writers who he thinks change their mind. I never changed my opinion. End of story. Why should I address anything else in that post. :)

Vinny642
05-14-2009, 07:33 PM
lol, u dont wanna be an espn writer?

Draco
05-14-2009, 07:37 PM
lol, u dont wanna be an espn writer?

If they want to hire an opinioted guy with no writing skill, sure.. I'll take the job.

dandman1021
05-14-2009, 07:38 PM
i feel bad...i wanna be a writer on ESPN:(lol

Vinny642
05-14-2009, 07:40 PM
lol but they overdo stories sometime

nik.jd.aitken
05-14-2009, 07:56 PM
Put him on another team and he isn't a very visible player. Playing with Kobe and Pau creats A LOT of room for you.

mrmike101
05-14-2009, 08:03 PM
dude armin12nba stop talking to draco, he is the biggest kobe hater on the planet and i dont know why. I bet all you kobe haters would kill to be him for a day

I would kill for his money and three point shot thats about it buddy!!:o

Vinny642
05-14-2009, 08:08 PM
I would kill for his money and three point shot thats about it buddy!!:o

Look at it, lakers fans sticking up for each other.

Denver-boy
05-14-2009, 08:09 PM
I actually think he overrated... wow he's can hit three's whoopie! I can care less where he goes, as long as we resign D. Jones and THE BIRDMAN!

redsox4ever36
05-14-2009, 08:27 PM
all of Ariza's threes are wide open looks because Kobe draws a double sometimes even a triple team. Kobe has become a team player and Trevor Ariza does not deserve any more credit than hes already gotten. He plays on a team with Bryant Gasol and Odom, not to mention a lot of nice complementary pieces in Bynum, Vujacic, Fisher and Farmar. Ariza is a nice piece but hes a 5th or 6th option at best.

mrmike101
05-14-2009, 08:43 PM
:laugh: You're going to compare an injury plagued year where he played 7 less minutes per game than the year before? Why don't we take his rookie year instead?

15.4/5.1/2.7/50TS%/15.1PER <---Rookie year
15.5/5.8/1.9/53TS%/15.8PER <---Years with Lakers

Seriously, the lengths at which you go to to try and prove a point (like being dishonest with your arguments) is just sad.

Hey dude not to slight ariza but i think that homer you exposing got banned "It's a sad day for kobephiles everywhere:cry:":smoking:

mrmike101
05-14-2009, 09:05 PM
Look at it, lakers fans sticking up for each other.

WHOA WHOA WHOA HOW DARE YOU SPECULATE SO BLINDLY I AM AN NBA fan thats about it!! And I am a nemisis to all homerS!!!:mad:

robdizzle3
05-14-2009, 09:19 PM
Yes Posey is the ultimate role player and bench player but Ariza with time will be a great 3rd option on somebodies team down the line

Kingman3k5
05-14-2009, 09:50 PM
If they want to hire an opinioted guy with no writing skill, sure.. I'll take the job.

From what I can tell that's as good as any other ESPN persona.

Wilson
05-14-2009, 09:59 PM
i feel bad...i wanna be a writer on ESPN:(lol

Your avatar is great :laugh: :laugh: :up:


Put him on another team and he isn't a very visible player. Playing with Kobe and Pau creats A LOT of room for you.

Exactly. I've been in love with Trevor Ariza ever since we got him, but he is what he is: a terrific role player. That's not a bad thing obviously (I've never seen a team win a championship with bad role players), he's just not a superstar.

He does seem to have worked a lot on his shot since he got here, which is great. The one thing keeping him out of the starting line-up for so long was that we needed some three point shooting to make room for Kobe, Pau and Andrew. Trevor's got better and better with that as the year went along, so he earned his starting spot. He provides excellent hustle as well.

Wilson
05-14-2009, 10:00 PM
From what I can tell that's as good as any other ESPN persona.

:laugh2: :laugh2:

Sportfan
05-14-2009, 10:02 PM
no ariza will always be underrated