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View Full Version : Lebron James is the MVP



Gilbert>TheRest
05-04-2009, 09:57 AM
just heard it on espn. i think he deserves it

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 09:59 AM
A no-brainer. He has been an unstoppable force this year. I wonder how he is gonna respond against Atlanta after his first career sweep.

jimbobjarree
05-04-2009, 10:01 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4135263

hard to argue with it, he's been a man possessed...well deserved

Tom81
05-04-2009, 10:05 AM
well deserved

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 10:06 AM
Today I watched some footage of his first game against Sacramento where as an 18-year old, he had 25 points and 9 assists...it gave me chills down my spine knowing how far LeBron has come today. It's truly special what LeBron has accomplished at just 24 years of age.

EX-TREME
05-04-2009, 10:08 AM
well he deseves it

Bullsfan22
05-04-2009, 10:09 AM
well deserved he made a leap this year into a whole different level. the guy is only 25, man that's not good for the rest of this league. Hopefully the cav's don't get their hands on a all-star big.

championships
05-04-2009, 10:19 AM
As A Laker fan I say "Boooo!!" As A BBall fan I say well deserved. He had a monster year

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 10:21 AM
24 years old
260 pounds
6'9 tall
His finesse, his power, his speed. His instincts, unselfishness and his court vision. Just so scary how much better he can become.

Kenny
05-04-2009, 10:22 AM
well deserved he made a leap this year into a whole different level. The guy is only 25, man that's not good for the rest of this league. Hopefully the cav's don't get their hands on a all-star big.

24 :d

IndiansFan337
05-04-2009, 10:28 AM
24 years old
260 pounds
6'9 tall
His finesse, his power, his speed. His instincts, unselfishness and his court vision. Just so scary how much better he can become.

That's the scary part.

I feel that when he begins to lose some of his quickness & speed in the latter part of his career that he will become a dominant post up PF, due to his incredible strength.

Trouble87
05-04-2009, 10:31 AM
well deserved congrats to Bron

Fool
05-04-2009, 10:33 AM
yeah, there's no doubt that he was the MVP this year. Congrats.

Bullsfan22
05-04-2009, 10:33 AM
24 years old
260 pounds
6'9 tall
His finesse, his power, his speed. His instincts, unselfishness and his court vision. Just so scary how much better he can become.

exactly, unreal and is 24 years old..:cry: that next ten years the bulls have to deal with his *** in the east. all I have to say is good luckkkk. This year will make him even better after he lose to the Lakers in the finals. This is his league though, it's no doubt about it.

Bullsfan22
05-04-2009, 10:37 AM
That's the scary part.

I feel that when he begins to lose some of his quickness & speed in the latter part of his career that he will become a dominant post up PF, due to his incredible strength.

by then his jumper will be auto if he works on it. Hell it's already improved more than people give him credit for, It's only a matter of time. If you think he's unstoppable now I think you'll be surprised how well he transitions into his thirties.

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 10:37 AM
That's the scary part.

I feel that when he begins to lose some of his quickness & speed in the latter part of his career that he will become a dominant post up PF, due to his incredible strength.

I don't think he'll be a power forward...I think he will improve his jumper to compensate once his explosiveness goes down, similairly to Jordan who also came into the league without a great jumper...but ended his career as one of the games best jump shooters.


by then his jumper will be auto if he works on it. Hell it's already improved more than people give him credit for, It's only a matter of time. If you think he's unstoppable now I think you'll be surprised how well he transitions into his thirties.

:clap:

raptor fan
05-04-2009, 10:47 AM
lebron is well-deserving of this award. he has been unstoppable as a player, and the cavs have been unstoppable as a team.

BTownTeamsRKing
05-04-2009, 11:08 AM
dont like the guy, but he deserved it easily this year.

LAKERMANIA
05-04-2009, 11:10 AM
Congrats Lebron, it was a great year for him

tr4shb0t
05-04-2009, 11:14 AM
Congrats to him. He has obviously been working hard this season. Everything I've seen of his shows what a great player and sport he is.

UK Bull
05-04-2009, 11:17 AM
very well deserved

Wilson
05-04-2009, 11:25 AM
Congrats to LeBron, well deserved :clap:

zo#33
05-04-2009, 11:26 AM
Well deserved

MagicBucsSox
05-04-2009, 11:47 AM
ya i cant argue it, i just hope dwight gets some votes in it

bahama0811
05-04-2009, 11:48 AM
Not a big surprise, Chauncey deserved some consideration too.

tdunk21
05-04-2009, 11:53 AM
well deserved

fire2last
05-04-2009, 12:01 PM
Congrats...now bring us that ring!

marjon
05-04-2009, 12:02 PM
i love my Lakers, but i think Lebron James is the best basketball player on the planet. the award is his to lose from now on, or it seems that way

king4day
05-04-2009, 12:18 PM
Not a big surprise, Chauncey deserved some consideration too.

I hope he was in the top 5. After Lebron and Kobe, the 3rd place is a toss up with Billups and Howard.

lakersrock
05-04-2009, 12:19 PM
It should read "LeBron James is given the MVP Award, Kobe Bryant is the MVP."

And as a disclaimer, that is nothing against LeBron. He is by far the best athlete in the game. I just don't think you give the MVP to a guy who has limited man on man defensive, shooting and clutch skills.

EricU812
05-04-2009, 12:23 PM
Well deserved...have a feeling we're going to hear his name a few more times down the road for MVP.

As a teacher, I think he is a good role model for some of the kids that I see. You don't see him involved in too much garbage. With so many camera phones, the internet, and people looking to make an extra buck...I'm impressed he's been able to keep his nose clean so far.

I hope he continues.

JordansBulls
05-04-2009, 12:25 PM
It should read "LeBron James is given the MVP Award, Kobe Bryant is the MVP."

And as a disclaimer, that is nothing against LeBron. He is by far the best athlete in the game. I just don't think you give the MVP to a guy who has limited man on man defensive, shooting and clutch skills.

Why the hell are you trying to start trouble in this thread?

J-Relo
05-04-2009, 12:28 PM
no way :D

IRUAM #21
05-04-2009, 12:38 PM
It should read "LeBron James is given the MVP Award, Kobe Bryant is the MVP."

And as a disclaimer, that is nothing against LeBron. He is by far the best athlete in the game. I just don't think you give the MVP to a guy who has limited man on man defensive, shooting and clutch skills.

:pity::pity::pity::pity:

still1ballin
05-04-2009, 12:42 PM
What a shocker!

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 12:42 PM
It should read "LeBron James is given the MVP Award, Kobe Bryant is the MVP."

And as a disclaimer, that is nothing against LeBron. He is by far the best athlete in the game. I just don't think you give the MVP to a guy who has limited man on man defensive, shooting and clutch skills.

The MVP award is not given because of a players skillset. It has been given to a player whose impact on the game is most integral to his team succes.

Should Larry Bird have been denied the MVP because he is a limited man-to-man defender...or Shaq because he is a limited shooter?

Your logic here is quite...illogical. No offense.

Testaverde16
05-04-2009, 12:42 PM
no better choice.... hes a beast.... first of many for him.

jskeet23
05-04-2009, 12:51 PM
Why the hell are you trying to start trouble in this thread?

hes telling the truth

DitchDat
05-04-2009, 12:59 PM
He deserves it!

JordansBulls
05-04-2009, 01:01 PM
hes telling the truth

Well here is my logic as well.

I think you shouldn't give MVP to a guy who shoots a worse fg% than his team average nor who doesn't lead his team in Win Shares.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 01:22 PM
well deserved. And to those nitpicking his game, I don't see Kobe or Wade going to the rim with that ferocity and just hammering it down despite 2 people trying to foul them. Or either one play free safety the way LeBron does. Everyone has a couple things in their game that they aren't great at. In the overall picture, he was the best player in the league, on the team with the best record. Pretty simple.

last stand
05-04-2009, 01:26 PM
lebron deserved it the voting should be

lebron
kobe
howard
wade

arlubas
05-04-2009, 01:31 PM
Like I said on another forum:

Easiest MVP choice ever.

still1ballin
05-04-2009, 01:34 PM
Well here is my logic as well.

I think you shouldn't give MVP to a guy who shoots a worse fg% than his team average nor who doesn't lead his team in Win Shares.


:laugh2:


Glad I don't have to hear that crap for awhile.

Thatruth32
05-04-2009, 01:43 PM
no brainer

PennyMy#1
05-04-2009, 01:59 PM
Sure, well deserved. Though I would've liked to see someone else getting it. Not going to say the name here. But congrats, Bron-Bron ...

theuuord
05-04-2009, 02:03 PM
In a word?

shocking.

theuuord
05-04-2009, 02:05 PM
:laugh2:


Glad I don't have to hear that crap for awhile.

win shares is problematic but it's way better than the basic dumbass stats most people use to justify their player's "dominance."

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 02:08 PM
win shares is problematic but it's way better than the basic dumbass stats most people use to justify their player's "dominance."

Or their teams dominance. Like the dreaded > comparisons *shudders*

Seriously, they should be BANNED.

Bullsfan22
05-04-2009, 02:10 PM
only a matter of time before laker fans brought like them brought their hating a_sses in here....LMAO

last stand
05-04-2009, 02:11 PM
dominance is measured in rings

duncan has 4
magic had 5
shaq has 4 and kobe had 3 (and probably 2-4 more depending on how good bynum gets)
MJ and pippen had 6
hakeem had 2

and lebron will probably have around 2-4 depending on his teammates

i think stats are inflated sometimes so in the end you look at titles and IMO you have to look at it by era

the dominant players of the past era

shaq
duncan
kobe
iverson
kidd

those were and in kobes case still the most dominant of that era

then you have

howard
lebron
kobe
wade
paul

that will be the dominant players of this current era

69centers
05-04-2009, 02:11 PM
I still say it should have been D. Wade. He lost Marion, has a rookie and nearly no one else behind him left, and still managed to get to the playoffs, and push the first round to seven games while playing hurt. Lebron had some huge help in Mo Williams.

Strongest finisher, fine. Strongest and most valuable to his team, I disagree. Wade should have gotten it.

theuuord
05-04-2009, 02:11 PM
Or their teams dominance. Like the dreaded > comparisons *shudders*

Seriously, they should be BANNED.

banning people who make those comparisons > banning those comparisons

kobe > lebron
lebron > kobe
wade > lebron
wade > kobe
kobe > wade
lebron > wade
lebron > jesus
jesus > shuttlesworth

last stand
05-04-2009, 02:13 PM
Or their teams dominance. Like the dreaded > comparisons *shudders*

Seriously, they should be BANNED.

i hate them how do you compare a lebron and kobe or a shaq and duncan 2 completely different players

you have your freaks of nature with solid skill sets in shaq and kobe and then you have you refined skilled with solid athletic ability guys in kobe and duncan

both sets are probably equally effective but both garner different tastes and fan fair

theuuord
05-04-2009, 02:13 PM
dominance is measured in rings

duncan has 4
magic had 5
shaq has 4 and kobe had 3 (and probably 2-4 more depending on how good bynum gets)
MJ and pippen had 6
hakeem had 2

and lebron will probably have around 2-4 depending on his teammates

i think stats are inflated sometimes so in the end you look at titles and IMO you have to look at it by era

the dominant players of the past era

shaq
duncan
kobe
iverson
kidd

those were and in kobes case still the most dominant of that era

then you have

howard
lebron
kobe
wade
paul

that will be the dominant players of this current era

I hate this argument.

Ron Harper has five rings.
Hall of Famer?

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 02:14 PM
jesus > shuttlesworth

:laugh:

last stand
05-04-2009, 02:16 PM
I still say it should have been D. Wade. He lost Marion, has a rookie and nearly no one else behind him left, and still managed to get to the playoffs, and push the first round to seven games while playing hurt. Lebron had some huge help in Mo Williams.

Strongest finisher, fine. Strongest and most valuable to his team, I disagree. Wade should have gotten it.

he lost marion and got JO who actually probably did more for them than marion ever did by protecting the paint and being a serviceable post option

also he had enough talent to win 45 games

lebron and kobe with less talent won more games in comparison yet got nowhere near the MVP trophy

last stand
05-04-2009, 02:20 PM
I hate this argument.

Ron Harper has five rings.
Hall of Famer?

well you at least have to be seriously impactful an option 1B like clyde drexler, kobe, or pippen or the #1A option like a shaq, MJ, hakeem

rings are the things

yes there are weird cases like how kobe and shaq or magic and kareem where its a debate who had the most impact though in honesty both shaq and kareem were 1As still if you are a legitimate reason for winning multiple championships you are a dominant player in my book

considering there are only 5 players on the floor per team if you are irreplaceable like a kobe or shaq you were dominant

ron harper whil good wasn't irreplaceable for the bulls or lakers

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-04-2009, 02:20 PM
no arguments here.

last stand
05-04-2009, 02:24 PM
on Lebron. great season he was dominant from day 1. i think he truly has a rivalry with kobe he saw kobe win it last year and thought i want that to be me next year

and he accomplished it. cavs fans are hoping to god the MVP curse isn't real since an MVP hasn't won a championship since 2003

Teeboy1487
05-04-2009, 02:25 PM
I wish some of you people would stop bringing laker fans into this. We know he deserved it. Kobe won mvp last year. I find it idiotic how some of you people always say we are hating on Lebron. I have a great deal of respect for Lebron and he did deserved MVP. Anybody with half of brain knew lebron would get MVP. The fans who should be mad is heat fans. Wade deserved it too. FYI Laker fans don't care about mvp this year. It's all about the championship.

last stand
05-04-2009, 02:27 PM
i used to think kobe was just hated for being kobe but with lebron ascending hes starting to get his own hater following

i guess attack whose on top

tiger has his, kobe has his, and now lebron has his

but MJ had his as well but once you retire all the haters leave and become fans

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 02:27 PM
I wish some of you people would stop bringing laker fans into this. We know he deserved it. Kobe won mvp last year. I find it idiotic how some of you people always say we are hating on Lebron. I have a great deal of respect for Lebron and he did deserved MVP. Anybody with half of brain knew lebron would get MVP. The fans who should be mad is heat fans. Wade deserved it too. FYI Laker fans don't care about mvp this year. It's all about the championship.

Well said :clap:

Denver-boy
05-04-2009, 02:28 PM
I think he diserved way more then Kobe and Wade

ryanXpress
05-04-2009, 02:29 PM
Dont like the guy at all but he definitely was the most valuable player to his team because they would be nothing without him. He did got help from the refs though.

last stand
05-04-2009, 02:29 PM
I wish some of you people would stop bringing laker fans into this. We know he deserved it. Kobe won mvp last year. I find it idiotic how some of you people always say we are hating on Lebron. I have a great deal of respect for Lebron and he did deserved MVP. Anybody with half of brain knew lebron would get MVP. The fans who should be mad is heat fans. Wade deserved it too. FYI Laker fans don't care about mvp this year. It's all about the championship.

thats all i ever care about. i wanted kobe to get one at least but championships are number 1

i want kobe to be the first ever recipient of the bill russell trophy

Kakaroach
05-04-2009, 02:30 PM
Nobody is surprised. Congratz to the King.

NYMetros
05-04-2009, 02:32 PM
omg no!! kobe deserved it!!!

:rolleyes:

Lebron23
05-04-2009, 02:33 PM
He Deserved it, and He almost won his first MVP back in the 2005-06 NBA Season. ( 2nd in MVP Voting.)

He had a dominating statsline, led his team to the best record in the NBA, best winning record at home, 4th Highest Per in NBA History, and he's also 2nd in the Defensive Player of the Year Voting.

But the Cavaliers Main Goal this season is to win the NBA Championship. Kudos to LeBron, and he's going to win more MVP Awards in the near future.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 02:33 PM
dominance is measured in rings

duncan has 4
magic had 5
shaq has 4 and kobe had 3 (and probably 2-4 more depending on how good bynum gets)
MJ and pippen had 6
hakeem had 2

and lebron will probably have around 2-4 depending on his teammates

i think stats are inflated sometimes so in the end you look at titles and IMO you have to look at it by era

the dominant players of the past era

shaq
duncan
kobe
iverson
kidd

those were and in kobes case still the most dominant of that era

then you have

howard
lebron
kobe
wade
paul

that will be the dominant players of this current era

therefore, Robert Horry is the most dominant player in modern basketball.
Dude, rings can add to a career, and for sure are an important part in being a top 20-30 player. But if a players management sucks, and he never has anything around him, it isn't his fault. Winning as a second banana has to count as well
I am surprised it took 4 pages before Kobe lovers moved in. Just give due where it is deserved. Jesus. Thank you to the Laker fans that did so. Disregard my shot

Vidball
05-04-2009, 02:34 PM
Congrats LeBron! I think he'll get a handful of MVP's before its all said and done (not too sure about rings, but he'll definitely put up monster stats).

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 02:36 PM
I wish some of you people would stop bringing laker fans into this. We know he deserved it. Kobe won mvp last year. I find it idiotic how some of you people always say we are hating on Lebron. I have a great deal of respect for Lebron and he did deserved MVP. Anybody with half of brain knew lebron would get MVP. The fans who should be mad is heat fans. Wade deserved it too. FYI Laker fans don't care about mvp this year. It's all about the championship.

um, go back and read the countless threads throughout the last 6 months about this subject. Maybe you don't care, but most Laker fans fought their points tooth and nail

last stand
05-04-2009, 02:39 PM
therefore, Robert Horry is the most dominant player in modern basketball.
Dude, rings can add to a career, and for sure are an important part in being a top 20-30 player. But if a players management sucks, and he never has anything around him, it isn't his fault. Winning as a second banana has to count as well
I am surprised it took 4 pages before Kobe lovers moved in. Just give due where it is deserved. Jesus. Thank you to the Laker fans that did so. Disregard my shot

because robert horry has ever even been the 3rd option :rolleyes:

no player has ever won championships by himself therefore the 2nd banana as you call it if extremely impactful does deserve to be there

magic, pippen, kobe, clyde drexler, kevin mchale and the list goes on are all 2nd bananas who without them their team probably wouldn't have won championships

nice try though

last stand
05-04-2009, 02:42 PM
um, go back and read the countless threads throughout the last 6 months about this subject. Maybe you don't care, but most Laker fans fought their points tooth and nail

wow god forbid laker fans argue on behalf of the teams best player

so different from when celtics fans argued KG last year or mavs fans when dirk lost to nash

Hoopsadvocate
05-04-2009, 02:44 PM
Congrats to him was hoping for a co mvp this year but i guess not. Laker fans who are already hating aka " Kobe is the real mvp lebron just won the award :cry:" and you wonder why ur team gets a bad rep :pity:

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 02:47 PM
because robert horry has ever even been the 3rd option :rolleyes:

no player has ever won championships by himself therefore the 2nd banana as you call it if extremely impactful does deserve to be there

magic, pippen, kobe, clyde drexler, kevin mchale and the list goes on are all 2nd bananas who without them their team probably wouldn't have won championships

nice try though


of course they all get respect. My point is, there have been many players in history with no rings, that deserve far more respect and accolades than many of the second bananas. Winning a ring doesn't define a career, it just adds to it. That is my only point.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 02:48 PM
wow god forbid laker fans argue on behalf of the teams best player

so different from when celtics fans argued KG last year or mavs fans when dirk lost to nash

simply pointing out the failed attempt to act like Laker fans could care less about Kobe winning MVP bro. Down boy!

last stand
05-04-2009, 02:51 PM
of course they all get respect. My point is, there have been many players in history with no rings, that deserve far more respect and accolades than many of the second bananas. Winning a ring doesn't define a career, it just adds to it. That is my only point.

its a valid point and statistics do need to be in the conversation obviously i just think rings are the major tipping point

obviously you wont put pippen ahead of shaq because he has more rings but pippen is still a top 50 player all time because he won and was intrical to that winning. MJ wins 1 maybe 2 without pippen

my point is rings are a big deal there are always exceptions but if you look at the top 50 of all time almost 90% of them have rings and most of that 90% have multiple rings

last stand
05-04-2009, 02:52 PM
simply pointing out the failed attempt to act like Laker fans could care less about Kobe winning MVP bro. Down boy!

no big deal i'm just saying. there were cleveland fans arguing for lebron last year no different

lebron deserved it and won it simple as that

Lebron23
05-04-2009, 02:53 PM
Best Statistical/Individual Season of LeBron James. ( Ages 18-24)

1. 2007-08 LeBron James (4th in MVP Voting)

30.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.8 spg, 1.1 bpg ( Only 3rd player in NBA History to averaged 30-7-7- In the Regular Season after Oscar and Jordan )

Cavaliers won 45 Games

2. 2005-06 LeBron James (2nd in MVP Voting)

31.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 6.6 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.8 bpg

Cavaliers won 50 Games

3. 2008-09 LeBron James ( 2009 NBA Regular Season MVP)

28.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.7 spg, 1.1 bpg ( 37.7 mpg)

Cavaliers won 66 Games (Tied for the 7th Best Regular Season Record in NBA History)

last stand
05-04-2009, 02:55 PM
Best Statistical Season of LeBron James. ( Ages 18-24)

1. 2007-08 LeBron James (4th in MVP Voting)

30.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.8 spg, 1.1 bpg ( Only 3rd player in NBA History to averaged 30-7-7- In the Regular Season after Oscar and Jordan )

Cavaliers won 45 Games

2. 2005-06 LeBron James (2nd in MVP Voting)

31.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 6.6 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.8 bpg

Cavaliers won 50 Games

3. 2008-09 LeBron James

28.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.7 spg, 1.1 bpg ( 37.7 mpg)

Cavaliers won 66 Games (Tied for the 7th Best Regular Season Record in NBA History)

that 2005-06 year should have been lebron or kobes award but they gave it to nash which is one of the most ridiculous things in NBA history

he should have been 3rd in 2007-2008 though because 45 wins isn't bad but considering both kobe and chris paul had close statistics with much better records they deserved to be ahead of him

while in 2005-06 kobe and lebron were both far superior to nash yet both finished behind nash which made no sense

statistically nash wasn't even top 8 and his record was good but considering i think it has to be a great balance of record and stats he only had half the equation like KG last year

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 02:56 PM
In any other case Kobe would've won the MVP this year...it just doesn't happen often that a player has such a phenomenal season as LeBron has had.

Like I said before...the MVP isn't just about individual accolades...but also to what degree a players impact is integral to his teams success.

championships
05-04-2009, 02:57 PM
I wish some of you people would stop bringing laker fans into this. We know he deserved it. Kobe won mvp last year. I find it idiotic how some of you people always say we are hating on Lebron. I have a great deal of respect for Lebron and he did deserved MVP. Anybody with half of brain knew lebron would get MVP. The fans who should be mad is heat fans. Wade deserved it too. FYI Laker fans don't care about mvp this year. It's all about the championship.

Thats right, CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!

TragicallyHip
05-04-2009, 02:57 PM
it's about time.

theuuord
05-04-2009, 02:59 PM
Best Statistical/Individual Season of LeBron James. ( Ages 18-24)

1. 2007-08 LeBron James (4th in MVP Voting)

30.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.8 spg, 1.1 bpg ( Only 3rd player in NBA History to averaged 30-7-7- In the Regular Season after Oscar and Jordan )

Cavaliers won 45 Games

2. 2005-06 LeBron James (2nd in MVP Voting)

31.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 6.6 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.8 bpg

Cavaliers won 50 Games

3. 2008-09 LeBron James ( 2009 NBA Regular Season MVP)

28.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.7 spg, 1.1 bpg ( 37.7 mpg)

Cavaliers won 66 Games (Tied for the 7th Best Regular Season Record in NBA History)

This is what I dislike about these basic stat analyses. this season was undoubtedly the best of LeBron's career so far, but that basic look at it makes it look third best.

Lebron23
05-04-2009, 03:06 PM
that 2005-06 year should have been lebron or kobes award but they gave it to nash which is one of the most ridiculous things in NBA history

he should have been 3rd in 2007-2008 though because 45 wins isn't bad but considering both kobe and chris paul had close statistics with much better records they deserved to be ahead of him

while in 2005-06 kobe and lebron were both far superior to nash yet both finished behind nash which made no sense

statistically nash wasn't even top 8 and his record was good but considering i think it has to be a great balance of record and stats he only had half the equation like KG last year

He's the only 2x NBA MVP Winner that never led his team in the NBA Finals. I think Both Kobe and LeBron deserved it in 2006, but the media/NBA Coaches loved Steve Nash during that time.

Nash has more MVP Awards than Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Jerry West, Baylor, Gervin, Stockton, Kobe, Barkley, Dirk, Isiah Thomas, Kidd, Payton, Dr. J, and Scottie Pippen, but it doesn't mean that he's a better player than those HOF's.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 03:06 PM
its a valid point and statistics do need to be in the conversation obviously i just think rings are the major tipping point

obviously you wont put pippen ahead of shaq because he has more rings but pippen is still a top 50 player all time because he won and was intrical to that winning. MJ wins 1 maybe 2 without pippen

my point is rings are a big deal there are always exceptions but if you look at the top 50 of all time almost 90% of them have rings and most of that 90% have multiple rings

rings are a big deal. But they don't define a career in my mind. But the second banana role can often be replaceable. For instance, if Charles Barkley replaced Pippen, would Chuck have 6 rings, and Pippen 0? Now where would Pippen be ranked? That is purely hypothetical, but you get my point, and trust me, I get yours. Agree, I just don't weigh it the same as you maybe. I think Stockton is the 2nd best PG of all time. Many would disagree.

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 03:08 PM
He's the only 2x NBA MVP Winner that never led his team in the NBA Finals. I think Both Kobe and LeBron deserved it in 2006, but the media loved Steve Nash during that time.

The irony is that now it's D'Antoni that's being adored everywhere he goes...oh wait...never mind.

Of course! He coaches the Knicks...obvious really.

:rolleyes:

JordansBulls
05-04-2009, 03:08 PM
This is what I dislike about these basic stat analyses. this season was undoubtedly the best of LeBron's career so far, but that basic look at it makes it look third best.

That's why you look at PER. It basically tells you who stats were better.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 03:09 PM
no big deal i'm just saying. there were cleveland fans arguing for lebron last year no different

lebron deserved it and won it simple as that

well, priorites of even fans change. Laker fans wanted him to win it badly last year. After the finals ended, I think the motivation for the players, and the fans changed. If Cleveland were to lose the finals this year, same deal next year for their fans.
For what its worth, I stopped giving a crap about MVP when Nash won it over Kobe in 2005, or whenever that year was where Kobe brought that crap team into the playoffs, and went for 35-5-5. Um, remove him from that team, you have this year's Kings.

championships
05-04-2009, 03:15 PM
well, priorites of even fans change. Laker fans wanted him to win it badly last year. After the finals ended, I think the motivation for the players, and the fans changed. If Cleveland were to lose the finals this year, same deal next year for their fans.
For what its worth, I stopped giving a crap about MVP when Nash won it over Kobe in 2005, or whenever that year was where Kobe brought that crap team into the playoffs, and went for 35-5-5. Um, remove him from that team, you have this year's Kings.
Don't forget about the number 81:D

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 03:16 PM
rings are a big deal. But they don't define a career in my mind. But the second banana role can often be replaceable. For instance, if Charles Barkley replaced Pippen, would Chuck have 6 rings, and Pippen 0? Now where would Pippen be ranked? That is purely hypothetical, but you get my point, and trust me, I get yours. Agree, I just don't weigh it the same as you maybe. I think Stockton is the 2nd best PG of all time. Many would disagree.

Agreed....Hrrrummphhh! I just realise something truly insignificant...or whatever.

Many great players were denied a ring because of the MJ dominance:

Reggie Miller
Karl Malone
Charles Barkley
John Stockton
Patrick Ewing
Shawn Kemp
Dominique Wilkins

Among others...Clyde and Hakeem sorta were lucky MJ decided to suck at baseball for two years.

If LeBron continues to improve in this pace...how many future stars will he deny?

Dwight Howard
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Kevin Durant
Brandon Roy
Blake Griffin
Ricky Rubio

Among others...maybe that kid that schools everyone across the street may get lucky when LeBron signs with the Cleveland Browns for two years...

Maybe not...

:violin:

Raidaz4Life
05-04-2009, 03:17 PM
As was said this is a no brainer and congrats to Lebron:clap::clap::clap:

Jonathan2323
05-04-2009, 03:18 PM
:down:

last stand
05-04-2009, 03:24 PM
Agreed....Hrrrummphhh! I just realise something truly insignificant...or whatever.

Many great players were denied a ring because of the MJ dominance:

Reggie Miller
Karl Malone
Charles Barkley
John Stockton
Patrick Ewing
Shawn Kemp
Dominique Wilkins

Among others...Clyde and Hakeem sorta were lucky MJ decided to suck at baseball for two years.

If LeBron continues to improve in this pace...how many future stars will he deny?

Dwight Howard
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Kevin Durant
Brandon Roy
Blake Griffin
Ricky Rubio

Among others...maybe that kid that schools everyone across the street may get lucky when LeBron signs with the Cleveland Browns for two years...

Maybe not...

:violin:

your not really comparing 2 completely different players as if lebron is a historical repetition of MJ

c'mon lebron can be dominant all he wants but dynasties are few and far between these days due to the strict salary cap

the NBA is doomed to spurs esque dynasties for the rest of its exsistence

not to mention MJ denied noone of titles the bulls did

keep in mind that same bulls team won 54 games while MJ was gone and went deep into the playoffs without MJ

lebron would be so lucky to enjoy a team that was so good it could make deep playoff runs without the GOAT

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 03:27 PM
your not really comparing 2 completely different players as if lebron is a historical repetition of MJ

c'mon lebron can be dominant all he wants but dynasties are few and far between these days due to the strict salary cap

the NBA is doomed to spurs esque dynasties for the rest of its exsistence

not to mention MJ denied noone of titles the bulls did

keep in mind that same bulls team won 54 games while MJ was gone and went deep into the playoffs without MJ

lebron would be so lucky to enjoy a team that was so good it could make deep playoff runs without the GOAT
:speechless:

You are not really taking my post seriously, right?

:laugh2::laugh2::faint:

last stand
05-04-2009, 03:28 PM
That's why you look at PER. It basically tells you who stats were better.

the per is awful according to hollingers per antawn jaimison and allen iverson were more deserving of the MVP last year

while the per is nice to add to the conversation it has many flaws as it was created by a guy with admitted bias against post players

Bullsfan22
05-04-2009, 03:29 PM
Congrats to him was hoping for a co mvp this year but i guess not. Laker fans who are already hating aka " Kobe is the real mvp lebron just won the award :cry:" and you wonder why ur team gets a bad rep :pity:

EXACTLY that kinda **** is not needed..

last stand
05-04-2009, 03:30 PM
well, priorites of even fans change. Laker fans wanted him to win it badly last year. After the finals ended, I think the motivation for the players, and the fans changed. If Cleveland were to lose the finals this year, same deal next year for their fans.
For what its worth, I stopped giving a crap about MVP when Nash won it over Kobe in 2005, or whenever that year was where Kobe brought that crap team into the playoffs, and went for 35-5-5. Um, remove him from that team, you have this year's Kings.

the lakers would have been worse

at least the kings had scorers and just played no defense

the lakers would have had lamar odom as their leading scorer with smush parker being the 2nd option

that team would struggle to win 10 games and those 10 games would be ones lamar went for 30 points

last stand
05-04-2009, 03:31 PM
:speechless:

You are not really taking my post seriously, right?

:laugh2::laugh2::faint:

actually i did take your post seriously

KeithLBC
05-04-2009, 03:31 PM
Congrats Lebron, well deserved. He led his team to the best record in the league, led them to the best home record, and made each of his teammates better all while having a phenomenal season for himself.

Well deserved and no arguments from me

:clap: :clap:

theuuord
05-04-2009, 03:32 PM
the per is awful according to hollingers per antawn jaimison and allen iverson were more deserving of the MVP last year

while the per is nice to add to the conversation it has many flaws as it was created by a guy with admitted bias against post players

Nope. PER isn't adjusted for minutes played, which is why players who come in for one minute and make their only shot have like a 394 PER.
if you adjust for playing time it shows the difference.

And PER is if anything nicer to post players than it is to shooters.

braveniler58
05-04-2009, 03:33 PM
Congratulations, LeBron. Welcome to the club.

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 03:33 PM
actually i did take your post seriously

You DID!? :ouch:

theuuord
05-04-2009, 03:33 PM
That's why you look at PER. It basically tells you who stats were better.

kind of. there's a LOT more to the equation than PER offers. but it's definitely a good piece to use.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 03:34 PM
the lakers would have been worse

at least the kings had scorers and just played no defense

the lakers would have had lamar odom as their leading scorer with smush parker being the 2nd option

that team would struggle to win 10 games and those 10 games would be ones lamar went for 30 points

oh, cmon now. Lamar is a legit player. That team had depth, and a great coach. They would have won at least 11 games.
In all seriousness, that was a 15-20 win team if you removed Kobe. That is one of the reasons I view MVP as the player who is most important to his team. Take him away, they are terrible. Look at Miami last year. Think of what the Cavs would look like without LeBron.

charlsdq7
05-04-2009, 03:36 PM
not surprised at all

last stand
05-04-2009, 03:41 PM
oh, cmon now. Lamar is a legit player. That team had depth, and a great coach. They would have won at least 11 games.
In all seriousness, that was a 15-20 win team if you removed Kobe. That is one of the reasons I view MVP as the player who is most important to his team. Take him away, they are terrible. Look at Miami last year. Think of what the Cavs would look like without LeBron.

lamar is a very legit player but he is waaaaaaaaay too inconsistent to lead a team

thats why i said their 10 wins would be when lamar goes off

this was the roster kobe won 46 games with

NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS DOB more...
18 Sasha Vujacic PG 6-7 193 1 3/8/84 buy jersey
8 Kobe Bryant SG 6-6 220 9 8/23/78 buy jersey
23 Von Wafer PG 6-5 210 R 7/21/85 buy jersey
1 William "Smush" Parker G 6-4 180 2 6/1/81 buy jersey
11 Devin Green G 6-7 210 R 10/25/82 buy jersey
2 Aaron McKie PG/SG 6-5 210 11 10/2/72 buy jersey
24 Jim Jackson G/F 6-6 220 14 10/14/70 buy jersey
9 Laron Profit G/SF 6-5 204 3 8/5/77 buy jersey
4 Luke Walton SF 6-8 235 2 3/28/80 buy jersey
3 Devean George SF 6-8 240 6 8/29/77 buy jersey
7 Lamar Odom SF 6-10 232 6 11/6/79 buy jersey
43 Brian Cook PF 6-9 234 2 12/4/80 buy jersey
14 Stanislav Medvedenko PF/C 6-10 255 5 4/4/79 buy jersey
54 Kwame Brown PF/C 7-0 243 4 3/10/82 buy jersey
21 Ronny Turiaf * PF 6-10 249 R 1/13/83
31 Chris Mihm C 7-0 265 5 7/16/69 buy jersey
54 Andrew Bynum C 6-11 285 R 10/27/87

keep in mind laron profit got injured, ronny had the heart thing and bynum still didn't play

back onto lebron if you took lebron off this team they would win about 35 which is about a 31 win dropoff while the lakers would win 45 maybe 50 with kobe gone

that is why lebron is MVP not because lebron or kobe is better because that is an annoying overdone arguement but lebron did more with less than the lakers

he has talent i'm not bashing his team. in fact i would argue that with kobe you give him a post player and with lebron you give him shooters and rebounders just saying lebron had the best record with less talent than the lakers

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 03:41 PM
oh, cmon now. Lamar is a legit player. That team had depth, and a great coach. They would have won at least 11 games.
In all seriousness, that was a 15-20 win team if you removed Kobe. That is one of the reasons I view MVP as the player who is most important to his team. Take him away, they are terrible. Look at Miami last year. Think of what the Cavs would look like without LeBron.

Aye...with all due respect...a team with Mo Williams as face of the franchise won't go really far. Without Kobe, the Lakers are still a pretty solid team...Pau Gasol has developed into a top 3 power forward in my opinion.

Not that the second option is a great indication because both teams adapt different appraoch in style...but the Lakers...Uggh what have I done...here comes the old Kobe vs. LeBron supporting cast argument...

Look people...free taco samples! *runs away quickly*

last stand
05-04-2009, 03:45 PM
Aye...with all due respect...a team with Mo Williams as face of the franchise won't go really far. Without Kobe, the Lakers are still a pretty solid team...Pau Gasol has developed into a top 3 power forward in my opinion.

Not that the second option is a great indication because both teams adapt different appraoch in style...but the Lakers...Uggh what have I done...here comes the old Kobe vs. LeBron supporting cast argument...

Look people...free taco samples! *runs away quickly*

yeah lebron vs. kobe has become the new MJ vs. kobe

its gotten to the point of just stop arguing the same points over and over again

superkegger
05-04-2009, 03:54 PM
Not a surprise, at all.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 03:55 PM
lamar is a very legit player but he is waaaaaaaaay too inconsistent to lead a team

thats why i said their 10 wins would be when lamar goes off

this was the roster kobe won 46 games with

NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS DOB more...
18 Sasha Vujacic PG 6-7 193 1 3/8/84 buy jersey
8 Kobe Bryant SG 6-6 220 9 8/23/78 buy jersey
23 Von Wafer PG 6-5 210 R 7/21/85 buy jersey
1 William "Smush" Parker G 6-4 180 2 6/1/81 buy jersey
11 Devin Green G 6-7 210 R 10/25/82 buy jersey
2 Aaron McKie PG/SG 6-5 210 11 10/2/72 buy jersey
24 Jim Jackson G/F 6-6 220 14 10/14/70 buy jersey
9 Laron Profit G/SF 6-5 204 3 8/5/77 buy jersey
4 Luke Walton SF 6-8 235 2 3/28/80 buy jersey
3 Devean George SF 6-8 240 6 8/29/77 buy jersey
7 Lamar Odom SF 6-10 232 6 11/6/79 buy jersey
43 Brian Cook PF 6-9 234 2 12/4/80 buy jersey
14 Stanislav Medvedenko PF/C 6-10 255 5 4/4/79 buy jersey
54 Kwame Brown PF/C 7-0 243 4 3/10/82 buy jersey
21 Ronny Turiaf * PF 6-10 249 R 1/13/83
31 Chris Mihm C 7-0 265 5 7/16/69 buy jersey
54 Andrew Bynum C 6-11 285 R 10/27/87

keep in mind laron profit got injured, ronny had the heart thing and bynum still didn't play

back onto lebron if you took lebron off this team they would win about 35 which is about a 31 win dropoff while the lakers would win 45 maybe 50 with kobe gone

that is why lebron is MVP not because lebron or kobe is better because that is an annoying overdone arguement but lebron did more with less than the lakers

he has talent i'm not bashing his team. in fact i would argue that with kobe you give him a post player and with lebron you give him shooters and rebounders just saying lebron had the best record with less talent than the lakers

I was obviously being facetious, but there is no way they would only have 10 wins. Do you understand how badly you have to suck in order to win only 10 games?
And everything else, I agree on.

fredv
05-04-2009, 03:56 PM
Lebron MVP no doubt. He will be MVP for the next 5 years I think. Kobe is done, "black mamba" is now a vulgar grass snake..

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 03:57 PM
Aye...with all due respect...a team with Mo Williams as face of the franchise won't go really far. Without Kobe, the Lakers are still a pretty solid team...Pau Gasol has developed into a top 3 power forward in my opinion.

Not that the second option is a great indication because both teams adapt different appraoch in style...but the Lakers...Uggh what have I done...here comes the old Kobe vs. LeBron supporting cast argument...

Look people...free taco samples! *runs away quickly*

hahaha, nice recovery dude! Where the hell are those tacos!

Bullsfan22
05-04-2009, 03:57 PM
yeah lebron vs. kobe has become the new MJ vs. kobe

its gotten to the point of just stop arguing the same points over and over again

LMAO atleast it's not as one sided.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 03:59 PM
Lebron MVP no doubt. He will be MVP for the next 5 years I think. Kobe is done, "black mamba" is now a vulgar grass snake..

while I agree Kobe's MVP days are over (thank you Memphis, among other things), I am not exactly counting him out. He has crossed that threshold of 1000 games, which spells doom sometimes, but he is tough, and has avoided injury his whole career. I think he still have a little left in the tank (:superman:).
But yes, LeBron isn't as good as he is going to be next year, and the year following, etc.

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 04:01 PM
hahaha, nice recovery dude! Where the hell are those tacos!

Sorry you were saying? Just came back from the restroom... :ouch: kind of hurts to sit down.

I think the window for Kobe is far from closed...Mj dominated well within his thirties...but Kobe entered the league much younger than Jordan.

As for LeBron...some people enter the league at his age...sick stuff...seeing his resume already.

kingkobe
05-04-2009, 04:03 PM
Aye...with all due respect...a team with Mo Williams as face of the franchise won't go really far. Without Kobe, the Lakers are still a pretty solid team...Pau Gasol has developed into a top 3 power forward in my opinion.



I would argue against that because Gasol actually had a similar team with him at Memphis (and they had Mike Miller, he's not too bad) and look what he was able to do as #1 option. They had one successful season and a lot of terrible ones.

So even though Gasol is a big part of the Lakers team, you still need Kobe to get decent amount of wins. People fail to see that the reason Gasol looks so good is because of the double teams on Kobe. If Kobe is out, I don't think Gasol would be able to handle the double teams that well.

Bullsfan22
05-04-2009, 04:06 PM
Lebron MVP no doubt. He will be MVP for the next 5 years I think. Kobe is done, "black mamba" is now a vulgar grass snake..

hahaha expect a lot of qoutes from that statement.

PHX-SOXFAN
05-04-2009, 04:09 PM
well deserved. he is the mvp. it's obvious and only a homer would argue otherwise.

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 04:11 PM
I would argue against that because Gasol actually had a similar team with him at Memphis (and they had Mike Miller, he's not too bad) and look what he was able to do as #1 option. They had one successful season and a lot of terrible ones.

So even though Gasol is a big part of the Lakers team, you still need Kobe to get decent amount of wins. People fail to see that the reason Gasol looks so good is because of the double teams on Kobe. If Kobe is out, I don't think Gasol would be able to handle the double teams that well.

Perhaps so, but Gasol is now entering his prime...whereas in Memphis he was still developing as a player.

The stats may not show it because of so much offensive firepower on the Lakers...but Gasol is probably having his best season as a pro. I would take him over Amare, Bosh and Boozer without thinking twice.

Vidball
05-04-2009, 04:16 PM
Lebron MVP no doubt. He will be MVP for the next 5 years I think. Kobe is done, "black mamba" is now a vulgar grass snake..

LeBron probably will win a few MVP's...I think Kobe will string together a few Finals MVP's though.

AMC31
05-04-2009, 04:22 PM
LeBron definately deserves it, I watched every Cavs game this year and he has been amazing. But what LeBron, and the whole team really wants is an NBA Championship. :dance2:

_Sn1P3r_
05-04-2009, 04:31 PM
Not surprised here. Congrats to LeBron. :clap:

JordansBulls
05-04-2009, 05:08 PM
lamar is a very legit player but he is waaaaaaaaay too inconsistent to lead a team

thats why i said their 10 wins would be when lamar goes off

this was the roster kobe won 46 games with

NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS DOB more...
18 Sasha Vujacic PG 6-7 193 1 3/8/84 buy jersey
8 Kobe Bryant SG 6-6 220 9 8/23/78 buy jersey
23 Von Wafer PG 6-5 210 R 7/21/85 buy jersey
1 William "Smush" Parker G 6-4 180 2 6/1/81 buy jersey
11 Devin Green G 6-7 210 R 10/25/82 buy jersey
2 Aaron McKie PG/SG 6-5 210 11 10/2/72 buy jersey
24 Jim Jackson G/F 6-6 220 14 10/14/70 buy jersey
9 Laron Profit G/SF 6-5 204 3 8/5/77 buy jersey
4 Luke Walton SF 6-8 235 2 3/28/80 buy jersey
3 Devean George SF 6-8 240 6 8/29/77 buy jersey
7 Lamar Odom SF 6-10 232 6 11/6/79 buy jersey
43 Brian Cook PF 6-9 234 2 12/4/80 buy jersey
14 Stanislav Medvedenko PF/C 6-10 255 5 4/4/79 buy jersey
54 Kwame Brown PF/C 7-0 243 4 3/10/82 buy jersey
21 Ronny Turiaf * PF 6-10 249 R 1/13/83
31 Chris Mihm C 7-0 265 5 7/16/69 buy jersey
54 Andrew Bynum C 6-11 285 R 10/27/87

keep in mind laron profit got injured, ronny had the heart thing and bynum still didn't play

back onto lebron if you took lebron off this team they would win about 35 which is about a 31 win dropoff while the lakers would win 45 maybe 50 with kobe gone

that is why lebron is MVP not because lebron or kobe is better because that is an annoying overdone arguement but lebron did more with less than the lakers

he has talent i'm not bashing his team. in fact i would argue that with kobe you give him a post player and with lebron you give him shooters and rebounders just saying lebron had the best record with less talent than the lakers

The best way to calculate how many games the team would win is to take away the player total win share for the year. So using that logic, the Cavs won 66 games this year and Lebron had ~ 20 win share then it means the Cavs are around a 46 win team without him.

_Supreme_
05-04-2009, 05:16 PM
I'm not surprised either. We all knew the media wanted to give him this award before the season even started .

However, it was Dwyane Wade who was this season's real Most Valuable Player for his team, not Lebron with his much better supporting cast.

Take the player away from his team, and look how many games they would lose without him: that is the only legit way to determine how valuable a player is for his team.

But whatever, the media voting for this has been ignorant and incompetent for years. They just look at the top 2 or 3 teams and pick the best player on that team. Garbage.

No bad feelings though, Lebron had a hell of a year as well.

Er1c
05-04-2009, 05:19 PM
congrats well deserved

_Supreme_
05-04-2009, 05:20 PM
The best way to calculate how many games the team would win is to take away the player total win share for the year. So using that logic, the Cavs won 66 games this year and Lebron had ~ 20 win share then it means the Cavs are around a 46 win team without him.

How exactly is that calculated?

Kabowdos
05-04-2009, 05:23 PM
Perhaps so, but Gasol is now entering his prime...whereas in Memphis he was still developing as a player.

The stats may not show it because of so much offensive firepower on the Lakers...but Gasol is probably having his best season as a pro. I would take him over Amare, Bosh and Boozer without thinking twice.

Over Amare or Chris Bosh? Are you crazy?

Gasol is a great player but he is not on their level. He was the best player on Memphis and the only player on Memphis. Weren't they the worst team in the league for a few seasons? He fits the Lakers system and does his job well. The Lakers are good because of their entire team. It is not one player or three players it is all of them. Lakers are efficient, everyone plays efficiently especially Odom, Gasol, Bynum, Ariza, and Kobe.

I am a Laker fan, but Gasol is not near Amare or Bosh or Boozer (besides last season). Gasol is not close to Duncan or KG either. If Amare wasn't on the suns with all their offensive talent and could stay healthy, he would average 28pts and 10boards a game easy.

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 05:23 PM
I'm not surprised either. We all knew the media wanted to give him this award before the season even started .

However, it was Dwyane Wade who was this season's real Most Valuable Player for his team, not Lebron with his much better supporting cast.

Take the player away from his team, and look how many games they would lose without him: that is the only legit way to determine how valuable a player is for his team.

But whatever, the media voting for this has been ignorant and incompetent for years. They just look at the top 2 or 3 teams and pick the best player on that team. Garbage.

No bad feelings though, Lebron had a hell of a year as well.

In the end winning weighs alot with the award...if Wade was able to hit the 50 win mark with that sorry excuse of a supporting cast he has he would've gotten my vote.

Kabowdos
05-04-2009, 05:30 PM
And LeBron won, we all knew this awhile ago. Congrats on the great season.

Kabowdos
05-04-2009, 05:34 PM
I'm not surprised either. We all knew the media wanted to give him this award before the season even started .

However, it was Dwyane Wade who was this season's real Most Valuable Player for his team, not Lebron with his much better supporting cast.

Take the player away from his team, and look how many games they would lose without him: that is the only legit way to determine how valuable a player is for his team.

But whatever, the media voting for this has been ignorant and incompetent for years. They just look at the top 2 or 3 teams and pick the best player on that team. Garbage.

No bad feelings though, Lebron had a hell of a year as well.

Dwayne Wade season = Kobe's three seasons after Shaq

Kobe had the stats and was by far the best player.

MVP goes to the best player on the best team for the most part. That is pretty much the truth or you have to be at least top 5 team in the NBA. They aren't giving it to the Wade, their record was like 13th in the NBA.

JayW_1023
05-04-2009, 05:37 PM
Over Amare or Chris Bosh? Are you crazy?

Gasol is a great player but he is not on their level. He was the best player on Memphis and the only player on Memphis. Weren't they the worst team in the league for a few seasons? He fits the Lakers system and does his job well. The Lakers are good because of their entire team. It is not one player or three players it is all of them.

I am a Laker fan, but Gasol is not near Amare or Bosh or Boozer (besides last season). Gasol is not close to Duncan or KG either. If Amare wasn't on the suns with all their offensive talent and could stay healthy, he would average 28pts and 10boards a game easy.

Amare is explosive, but he doesn't possess Gasols intelligence, rebounding ability, court awareness and low post scoring. Gasol in my opinion is a more well rounded player. Amare is strictly a one way player.

Bosh comes alot closer to Gasol, being slightly better on the glass and more atheltic...but once again Gasol is a much better facilitator and that gives him a slight nod. He is more fundamentally sound.

Boozer is a great low post scorer and mid range shooter like Gasol, but his face up game isn't as good as once again he lacks Gasols creativity and court awareness.

If you ask me I think Gasol is virtually tied with Dirk as the leagues third best PF. He is equally great at playing in the low post and facing up...what sets him apart from the other players I mentioned is his court vision and feel for the game.

Next to Yao and Duncan...no big man is as fundamentally sound as Pau Gasol. I do agree that the Lakers are good because of their entire team...but Gasol has really flourished in the triangle because of his creativity and ability to find his teammates.

Plus Gasols defense is severely underrated in my opinion I don't care what people claim.

still1ballin
05-04-2009, 05:42 PM
I am sorry but LeBron getting the MVP is total b/s. He didn't do nothing compared to another player. The nba is rigged, stern loves lebron and the refs care for lebron.....lebron is no where near close to mvp but i tell you who deserves it way more then he does....



























Mike motha ****in james!

last stand
05-04-2009, 05:57 PM
Lebron MVP no doubt. He will be MVP for the next 5 years I think. Kobe is done, "black mamba" is now a vulgar grass snake..

a houston fan trying to convince himself kobe is done

what did kobe do to you guys again

oh yeah

last stand
05-04-2009, 06:01 PM
LMAO atleast it's not as one sided.

don't you dare :p

but in all seriousness MJ and kobe is now over because lebron got really good so now everyone compares lebron with kobe

i see a pattern though

wade vs. kobe
lebron vs. kobe
roy vs. kobe

how about people leave kobe alone and bother other players

kobe is the best SG of this generation and its not even close. i feel sorry for lebron fans because they will get the same crap everyone being compared to lebron

from someone with experience good luck cleveland fans. it gets annoying after awhile

at least chicago fans get it less and less now because MJ is imcomparable for now and probably forever

_Supreme_
05-04-2009, 06:04 PM
I would argue against that because Gasol actually had a similar team with him at Memphis (and they had Mike Miller, he's not too bad) and look what he was able to do as #1 option. They had one successful season and a lot of terrible ones.

So even though Gasol is a big part of the Lakers team, you still need Kobe to get decent amount of wins. People fail to see that the reason Gasol looks so good is because of the double teams on Kobe. If Kobe is out, I don't think Gasol would be able to handle the double teams that well.

I wouldn't exactly go as far as comparing those Grizzlies' teams to this year's Lakers :laugh2:

Gasol always had to deal with double teams when he was with the Grizzlies, and he always handled them well, so there is no reason to believe he wouldn't handle them the same way on the Lakers.

The only difference now is that he takes slightly less shots (which is logical on this team), and he has a slightly higher field goal % (in other words he is slightly more efficient now, which is logical also because he has more talent around him).

Gasol has been very close to Kobe as far as the MVP of the Lakers' team goes during a lot of games this season, and there have been games when he was the most impotant player on the team that night. That isn't a knock on Kobe, but still it did happen, and Gasol deserves credit for that.

The same for Mo Williams and Lebron on the Cavs.

Zefflin
05-04-2009, 06:05 PM
Dwayne Wade season = Kobe's three seasons after Shaq

Kobe had the stats and was by far the best player.

MVP goes to the best player on the best team for the most part. That is pretty much the truth or you have to be at least top 5 team in the NBA. They aren't giving it to the Wade, their record was like 13th in the NBA.

Ain't that the truth...oh and congrats Lebroom.

last stand
05-04-2009, 06:06 PM
I wouldn't exactly go as far as comparing those Grizzlies' teams to this year's Lakers :laugh2:

Gasol always had to deal with double teams when he was with the Grizzlies, and he always handled them well, so there is no reason to believe he wouldn't handle them the same way on the Lakers.

The only difference now is that he takes slightly less shots (which is logical on this team), and he has a slightly higher field goal % (in other words he is slightly more efficient now, which is logical also because he has more talent around him).

Gasol has been very close to Kobe as far as the MVP of the Lakers' team goes during a lot of games this season, and there have been games when he was the most impotant player on the team that night. That isn't a knock on Kobe, but still it did happen, and Gasol deserves credit for that.

The same for Mo Williams and Lebron on the Cavs.

i think thats what allowed lebron to win it so easily kobe took a step back and him and gasol became equally important

while mo was a great addition lebron still had to do a lot of creating for his team

bogmon
05-04-2009, 06:06 PM
LeBron has had one heulluva season....best player on a truly special team.

It has been a joy watchin' him do what he do and no one is more deserving of the award this year than Sir James....

Look forward to some seriously epic battles throughout the rest of these playoffs!

philab
05-04-2009, 06:12 PM
I'm not surprised either. We all knew the media wanted to give him this award before the season even started .

However, it was Dwyane Wade who was this season's real Most Valuable Player for his team, not Lebron with his much better supporting cast.

Take the player away from his team, and look how many games they would lose without him: that is the only legit way to determine how valuable a player is for his team.

But whatever, the media voting for this has been ignorant and incompetent for years. They just look at the top 2 or 3 teams and pick the best player on that team. Garbage.

No bad feelings though, Lebron had a hell of a year as well.

No, this just isn't right. That's not the criteria of the voters and there's no precedent for giving the award on that basis. I don't mind the logic so much (although it is very flawed); it's just that there's no precedent. If we're going to give out the award based off those criteria, LeBron's got at least two MVPs already and could arguably be working on a fourth. Kobe would have either two or three also.

And really, I'm not so sure Wade wins on your criteria anyway. Sure, Wade plays on what would be a really bad team and is VERY valuable to that team. However, that team only won 43 games. LeBron, on the other hand, plays on what would be a bad or just worse than mediocre team without him and is VERY valuable to that team. And LeBron's team won 66 games.

In other words, the winner shouldn't be the player with the worst team around him but the player who adds the most to his team.

lakers4sho
05-04-2009, 06:29 PM
Kudos to LeBron, and also to those people who wished to be different from everyone else ;)

Verbal Christ
05-04-2009, 06:56 PM
rightfully so, Lebron from what i gather had the 2nd highest PER of ALL TIME, laker fan give credit when credit is due all the bragging tongues are really annoying when you dont have a solid argument for Kobe winning THIS YEAR, but you know what they say, 'the smaller the mind, the greater the conceit'

Lebron23
05-04-2009, 07:02 PM
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090504/capt.ddbf943b016340b99e6ab8ab890bed3a.nba_mvp_bask etball_ohas101.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090504/capt.011b6b5946634d00b08f78613af0c8ab.nba_mvp_bask etball_ohas102.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090504/capt.b5653dbdedd342868d515ca3dc01e011.nba_mvp_bask etball__ohas105.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090504/capt.d99a12ac6e3e4207a78573eeee100b15.nba_mvp_bask etball__ohas108.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090504/capt.8a4d1ddcf8ed45e6b993a6e372a84f55.iihf_world_h ockey__ohas106.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090504/capt.939c43a0845d4013a2a1ffcfdd3e27b4.nba_mvp_bask etball__ohas107.jpg

_Supreme_
05-04-2009, 07:13 PM
Dwayne Wade season = Kobe's three seasons after Shaq

Kobe had the stats and was by far the best player.

MVP goes to the best player on the best team for the most part. That is pretty much the truth or you have to be at least top 5 team in the NBA. They aren't giving it to the Wade, their record was like 13th in the NBA.

Absolutely no way.

Kobe's three seasons after Shaq were purely about one thing: scoring.

Wade this season was not only about scoring but everything and all over the place. He did more allround than Kobe has ever done in a single season.

The truth is that giving the MVP only to players on teams with top records is a flat out idiotic way of reasoning, since we are talking about the award for the player who was the most valuable to his team individually, and the rest of the players on a team do matter very very much in earning that top record.
Is the player really that valuable, or do his teammates just happen to be very valuable as well? Basically, what they are doing now is looking at a team full of good players, and they actually use their combined good performance as a positive in the equation of deciding one individual's worth. That is completely rediculous.

I understand this is the way the voters decide it, but that is exactly why the MVP award has been a joke for so many years now. It is invalid logic plain and simple. These peope voting are extremely simple minded, ignorant, superficial etc.

Suppose the Boston Celtics ran away with the top record in the NBA this season. Do you give the MVP to KG, Pierce or Ray Allen (maybe I should even mention Rondo as well)? And which one of them would you give it too?

Over guys like Lebron, Wade, Howard, Bryant or Chris Paul?

All of those are much more important to their teams individually than any of those Celtics individually, who are in my opinion one of the prime examples of a team where everybody is, in their own specific way, an equally important (valuable) contributor to the end result (win/loss record).

I hope that it is agreed that awarding the MVP to one of the Celtics, given this example, would not be fair to those other players since this is an individual award, even though the same logic would be used as has been used by the voters this year and in the recent past.

Like I said: the only valid way of determining a player's individual value to his team is by taking him off that team, and looking at how much worse the team would be without him.

Imagine what Wade would have done if he had the luxury of being on a stacked team like the Cavs or Lakers instead of a team with Udonis Haslem, a bunch of rookies and a washed up poor excuse for a center. His individual stats would go so high through the roof it's not even funny, and you can bet they would have at least the same record as the Cavs/Lakers.

Now I won't lose any sleep over any of this, but that doesn't change the fact that the current way of deciding the MVP stinks, and it needs to be said.

dtmagnet
05-04-2009, 07:13 PM
Congratulations to Lebron James, an awsome season and a great young man. It will be fun to watch this guy throughout his career.

JordansBulls
05-04-2009, 07:14 PM
How exactly is that calculated?

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312763

_Supreme_
05-04-2009, 07:45 PM
No, this just isn't right. That's not the criteria of the voters and there's no precedent for giving the award on that basis. I don't mind the logic so much (although it is very flawed); it's just that there's no precedent. If we're going to give out the award based off those criteria, LeBron's got at least two MVPs already and could arguably be working on a fourth. Kobe would have either two or three also.

And really, I'm not so sure Wade wins on your criteria anyway. Sure, Wade plays on what would be a really bad team and is VERY valuable to that team. However, that team only won 43 games. LeBron, on the other hand, plays on what would be a bad or just worse than mediocre team without him and is VERY valuable to that team. And LeBron's team won 66 games.

In other words, the winner shouldn't be the player with the worst team around him but the player who adds the most to his team.

Because the current criteria is the way it is and there is no precedent doesn't mean the current way is the right way. It isn't.

If something has been broken for years, but nobody cares to fix it, it is still broken.

You say the reasoning is flawed but no arguments as to why. I don't mind if you disagree, but at least explain why?

Btw I agree about Lebron possibly having earned an MVP already, but I don't agree about Kobe. Kobe Bryant has been too one dimensional (he has been scoring, A LOT, which is great, but that's what they have the scoring title for) while Lebron has been much more allround indeed.

Chris Paul was robbed last year, and Dirk didn't deserve it either, so that's a lot of times they messed it up. Steve Nash was the last winner who really deserved it, although one of those years Shaq had an equal claim Imo (his first year in Miami).

And yes, Wade would definitely win using my criteria. Do you really think the HEAT wouldn't lose more games than they did now without Wade than the Cavs or Lakers would without Lebron or Kobe :eyebrow:

Cavs and Lakers would still be playing .500 ball probably while Miami would be bottom 3 in the league again. I'm not sure they would even win more than 10 games.

Lebron has a very strong case for the MVP, and I am not bothered by him getting it, but still his case is not as strong as Wade's.

AllTheWay
05-04-2009, 07:49 PM
Congrats Lebron.

AllTheWay
05-04-2009, 07:50 PM
Because the current criteria is the way it is and there is no precedent doesn't mean the current way is the right way. It isn't.

If something has been broken for years, but nobody cares to fix it, it is still broken.

You say the reasoning is flawed but no arguments as to why. I don't mind if you disagree, but at least explain why?

Btw I agree about Lebron possibly having earned an MVP already, but I don't agree about Kobe. Kobe Bryant has been too one dimensional (he has been scoring, A LOT, which is great, but that's what they have the scoring title for) while Lebron has been much more allround indeed.

Chris Paul was robbed last year, and Dirk didn't deserve it either, so that's a lot of times they messed it up. Steve Nash was the last winner who really deserved it, although one of those years Shaq had an equal claim Imo (his first year in Miami).

And yes, Wade would definitely win using my criteria. Do you really think the HEAT wouldn't lose more games than they did now without Wade than the Cavs or Lakers would without Lebron or Kobe :eyebrow:

Cavs and Lakers would still be playing .500 ball probably while Miami would be bottom 3 in the league again. I'm not sure they would even win more than 10 games.

Lebron has a very strong case for the MVP, and I am not bothered by him getting it, but still his case is not as strong as Wade's.

How can an MVP only play half of the game?

ARMIN12NBA
05-04-2009, 07:51 PM
Congrats LBJ! :clap: Truthfully, I could use a BJ.

ARMIN12NBA
05-04-2009, 07:54 PM
24 years old
260 pounds
6'9 tall
His finesse, his power, his speed. His instincts, unselfishness and his court vision. Just so scary how much better he can become.

Do you really think he can be THAT MUCH better? Most players best years come at the age of 24. He is turning 25 this year.


24 :d

He is turning 25 this year.


That's the scary part.

I feel that when he begins to lose some of his quickness & speed in the latter part of his career that he will become a dominant post up PF, due to his incredible strength.

I'm not bagging on Lebron, but do you really think he can be a "dominant" post up PF? He has rarely every played in the post in his career. And when he does play in the post, he exhibits poor footwork and usually just does a fade away. He doesn't have the tools to be a dominant PF IMO.


exactly, unreal and is 24 years old..:cry: that next ten years the bulls have to deal with his *** in the east. all I have to say is good luckkkk. This year will make him even better after he lose to the Lakers in the finals. This is his league though, it's no doubt about it.

10 years? I'll give Lebron 4-5 more years of dominance then I see I pretty quick decline. That's just my opinion. Nobody has played more minutes in their first 7 years in the league...

Lebron23
05-04-2009, 07:56 PM
Congrats LBJ! :clap: Truthfully, I could use a BJ.



And He's already better than Kobe Bryant. Kobe will decline next season because he's already 31 yrs.old. Don't expect him to play in his late 30's because just like LeBron he was drafted straight out of HS.

Bynum is going to be the Los Angeles Lakers franchise player in the next decade.

ARMIN12NBA
05-04-2009, 08:02 PM
And He's already better than Kobe Bryant.

Career-wise or this year? He's not better than Kobe in his career. Not sure why you brought this up anyways though. :laugh2:


Kobe will decline next season because he's already 31 yrs.old. Don't expect him to play in his late 30's because just like LeBron he was drafted straight out of HS.

Agreed. Kobe has already played a full NBA career. It's a damn surprise he's lasted this long. His prime years athletically were 2002-2005, but those were taken away (except for 2003) because of player with others, injuries, and "distractions."


Bynum is going to be the Los Angeles Lakers franchise player in the next decade.

Hopefully.

last stand
05-04-2009, 08:03 PM
And He's already better than Kobe Bryant. Kobe will decline next season because he's already 31 yrs.old. Don't expect him to play in his late 30's because just like LeBron he was drafted straight out of HS.

Bynum is going to be the Los Angeles Lakers franchise player in the next decade.

:rolleyes: well obviously lebron is better now he's younger kobes in his 13th season in which 85% of those seasons were deep playoff runs

lebron is superior athletically than kobe and can do more things than him because of that

but in the 4th quarter i would still take kobe but like van gundy i would probably take lebron for the first 3 quarters

Lebron23
05-04-2009, 08:13 PM
LeBron is clutch in the 4th quarter.

http://www.82games.com/0809/QTR4S11.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

S-Jax39
05-04-2009, 08:16 PM
He deserved it. Some like to try and put up an argument for Kobe, because it's hard to see him give up the award he tried for so long to get, but you have to give it to James... he was just the better player this season, and his team record/stats explain why.

last stand
05-04-2009, 08:21 PM
LeBron is clutch in the 4th quarter.

http://www.82games.com/0809/QTR4S11.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Lebron is not clutch yet nor is he not clutch hes in between

ask anyone kobe still the biggest killer in the fourth. thats lebrons final step to all time greatness. hes a superstar check that the superstar only to be matched by kobe, and he does everything but cook his own meals and wipe his own @$$ but hes still not the kyra sedwrick of basketball

thats kobe

last stand
05-04-2009, 08:22 PM
He deserved it. Some like to try and put up an argument for Kobe, because it's hard to see him give up the award he tried for so long to get, but you have to give it to James... he was just the better player this season, and his team record/stats explain why.

true

lebron has his MVP now its time for him to chase that title

just not this year, next year, or the year after that..........................

well hopefully anyways

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 08:25 PM
Do you really think he can be THAT MUCH better? Most players best years come at the age of 24. He is turning 25 this year.



He is turning 25 this year.



I'm not bagging on Lebron, but do you really think he can be a "dominant" post up PF? He has rarely every played in the post in his career. And when he does play in the post, he exhibits poor footwork and usually just does a fade away. He doesn't have the tools to be a dominant PF IMO.



10 years? I'll give Lebron 4-5 more years of dominance then I see I pretty quick decline. That's just my opinion. Nobody has played more minutes in their first 7 years in the league...

this entire post is crap dude. 24 yrs old is their prime??????? ok

what54!?
05-04-2009, 08:29 PM
someone is a big time lebron hater :laugh2:

well deserved for lebron though

S-Jax39
05-04-2009, 08:29 PM
true

lebron has his MVP now its time for him to chase that title

just not this year, next year, or the year after that..........................

well hopefully anyways

Damn right... Go Lakers! :p

last stand
05-04-2009, 08:29 PM
this entire post is crap dude. 24 yrs old is their prime??????? ok

actually it is true that the preps to pros players hit their athletic prime at anywhere from 24-26 but they hit their skill prime (when the game is just hitting on all cylinders) at around 28

kobe's prime was obviously started around 27 or 28 and finished at 29, but kobe was nowhere near the athlete he was when he was 24

24 is when you are at the peak athleticly

prodigy
05-04-2009, 08:30 PM
lebron will improve his 3pt shot, FT's and defense. thats common since. although he defense was freakin insane to begin with.

Lebron is well deserved. His stats, team success and meaning to team is by far better then anyone else.

last stand
05-04-2009, 08:34 PM
lebron will improve his 3pt shot, FT's and defense. thats common since. although he defense was freakin insane to begin with.

Lebron is well deserved. His stats, team success and meaning to team is by far better then anyone else.

he will most likely improve his man defense because help defense is the first to go when athleticism tails off

kobe was pretty much as good as he was 2 years ago when he was 24

the preps to pros guys have shown they become more efficient and more skill oriented with time and loss of athleticism

KG, kobe are just perfect examples both were elite athletes and did most of their spectacular play off of that athleticism now both of them rely almost 85% on skill

lebron with his work ethis will go a similar route he will rely more on his jumper and less on the drive, he will play more fundemental defense, and his FTs will improve

he will follow KG and kobes footsteps with probably higher statistical production but very similar

ARMIN12NBA
05-04-2009, 08:52 PM
this entire post is crap dude. 24 yrs old is their prime??????? ok

Yup.

Wilt- Best season at 25.
Russel- Best season at 25.
Oscar- Best season at 23.
Kareem- Best season at 24.
Magic- Best season at 25.
Jordan- Best season at 23.
Hakeem- Best season at 27.
Shaq- Best season at 27.
Kobe- Best season at 24.

Maybe I'm wrong, but most great players have had their season around the age of 25. Not to mention lots of these guys came out in college. Lebron has had the most mileage out of any NBA player at his age. We will see I guess. Lebron may just be a physical freak that defies history.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-04-2009, 08:56 PM
Yup.

Wilt- Best season at 25.
Russel- Best season at 25.
Oscar- Best season at 23.
Kareem- Best season at 24.
Magic- Best season at 25.
Jordan- Best season at 23.
Hakeem- Best season at 27.
Shaq- Best season at 27.
Kobe- Best season at 24.

Maybe I'm wrong, but most great players have had their season around the age of 25. Not to mention lots of these guys came out in college. Lebron has had the most mileage out of any NBA player at his age. We will see I guess. Lebron may just be a physical freak that defies history.

You are right. Statistically speaking, players primes are around 25 to 26 years old.

But they tend to become better basketball players around 28 to 31

MJ'S best seasons statistically were when he were younger. But he became an all around great player when he got older and his stats declined

ARMIN12NBA
05-04-2009, 08:58 PM
You are right. Statistically speaking, players primes are around 25 to 26 years old.

But they tend to become better basketball players around 28 to 31

MJ'S best seasons statistically were when he were younger. But he became an all around great player when he got older and his stats declined

True...But Lebron relies a lot more on athleticism than almost any other player in NBA history.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 09:14 PM
Yup.

Wilt- Best season at 25.
Russel- Best season at 25.
Oscar- Best season at 23.
Kareem- Best season at 24.
Magic- Best season at 25.
Jordan- Best season at 23.
Hakeem- Best season at 27.
Shaq- Best season at 27.
Kobe- Best season at 24.

Maybe I'm wrong, but most great players have had their season around the age of 25. Not to mention lots of these guys came out in college. Lebron has had the most mileage out of any NBA player at his age. We will see I guess. Lebron may just be a physical freak that defies history.


are you basing this off statistical seasons? Because, as a coach, you should know, that numbers don't tell the players instincts and wisdom, which come with time. Are you really telling me that MJ was better at 23 than he was at 29? Or that Kareem or Oscar were better at 24 than 29? C'mon dude. And if what you are saying is truly what you believe, than Bynum, the next Wilt/Kareem/Shaq clone as so many liked to claim before this season, doesn't have much time before he goes on the decline.
Not picking an argument, but stats tell what they tell, numbers. Players are better 7-8 years into their careers than they are 3 years in. And yes, LeBron has mileage, but he has 0 injuries, and just seems to get stronger by the day. He is a freak.

Hawkeye15
05-04-2009, 09:18 PM
True...But Lebron relies a lot more on athleticism than almost any other player in NBA history.

no he does not. MJ, Kobe, Dr J, Connie Hawkins, Dominique, among countless others. Did we forget these players? They all relied on freakish athletic ability, then had to learn other parts of the game as they slowed a bit. Why is it soooooo hard to believe that LeBron will do the same? And, LeBron is a better specimen than any of them. He has the best combination of size and athletic ability to ever enter the NBA for his skillset. I just don't understand how you can justify any positives, or negatives, of Kobe, and just come up with excuses why LeBron won't be the next big thing.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-04-2009, 09:23 PM
no he does not. MJ, Kobe, Dr J, Connie Hawkins, Dominique, among countless others. Did we forget these players? They all relied on freakish athletic ability, then had to learn other parts of the game as they slowed a bit. Why is it soooooo hard to believe that LeBron will do the same? And, LeBron is a better specimen than any of them. He has the best combination of size and athletic ability to ever enter the NBA for his skillset. I just don't understand how you can justify any positives, or negatives, of Kobe, and just come up with excuses why LeBron won't be the next big thing.

Kobe did not and does not rely on his athleticism. Vince Carter, T Mac and D Wade relied on their athleticism much more when they were younger. Kobe was never really considered an athletic freak.

But the other guys you listed are right on. I would throw in Shaq with that group as well. Fundamentally, shaq was average at best. He relied on his size and athleticism to be a great player.

NYtilIdie
05-04-2009, 09:27 PM
He most def deserves it he has improved in every area possible most notability his defense Congrats Lebron

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-04-2009, 09:30 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot to say that this award was very well deserved. He has been a beast since this years opening tip off. And while he may have had a team built perfectly around him, he had to be on top of his game every night for those roll players to be able to fulfill their roles. And to his credit, he was. He did not have a true second option to pick up the slack if he has an off game. Congrats to a great player

ARMIN12NBA
05-04-2009, 09:32 PM
are you basing this off statistical seasons? Because, as a coach, you should know, that numbers don't tell the players instincts and wisdom, which come with time.

Both statistics, smarts, and defense. Russel was a wise player from the start. His great statistics came at that age. And on and on and on.


Are you really telling me that MJ was better at 23 than he was at 29?

Yes. He averaged 37 PPG and was DOMINANT on defense. He won the DPOY that year. He was smart, dominant on offense, dominant on defense, and dominant in the stats category.


Or that Kareem or Oscar were better at 24 than 29? C'mon dude.

Oh yes. Especially Kareem coming from UCLA. He was a very wise player from the start.

Oscar with the triple-double was definitely his best season.


And if what you are saying is truly what you believe, than Bynum, the next Wilt/Kareem/Shaq clone as so many liked to claim before this season, doesn't have much time before he goes on the decline.

LOL. Different situation muh man.

BTW--I can predict your every move. I knew you were going to say this. Anyways...

Bynum didn't play his rookie year. Barely played his sophomore year and has been out for half the year his last two years. He has barely played! Like I said, Lebron has played the most minutes for a dude his age.



Not picking an argument, but stats tell what they tell, numbers. Players are better 7-8 years into their careers than they are 3 years in. And yes, LeBron has mileage, but he has 0 injuries, and just seems to get stronger by the day. He is a freak.

Lebron is not 3 years in. He is 6 years in and has the most mileage....

BTW--I'm going to eat dinner. I'll be back.

Kabowdos
05-04-2009, 09:38 PM
And He's already better than Kobe Bryant. Kobe will decline next season because he's already 31 yrs.old. Don't expect him to play in his late 30's because just like LeBron he was drafted straight out of HS.

Bynum is going to be the Los Angeles Lakers franchise player in the next decade.

First he is 30. Second you are biased. Kobe is not on the decline. Keep thinking that he is. He is better right now than he has ever been. He will be playing like this until 33 years old at least.

LeBron is not better than Kobe. Everyone knows that.
Kobe can do everything.
LeBron can do everything, but shoot from the perimeter and foul line.
That is why Kobe is better because his game is more complete. To be honest, I think Wade is the second best because his game is more complete than LeBrons.
Remember one thing as well
Kobe has three rings.
LeBron has zero. It isn't easy to get three rings.

Don't respond to my post please. I don't want to hear you biased garbage.
Let this year speak for it.

JJ_JKidd
05-04-2009, 09:40 PM
Congraulations to LBJ. He was hands down the MVP..... Still dont like the fact though that he chases his stats and his triple doubles.....

LBJ - MVP

NBA Champs - Lake Show :smoking:

Nirvanaskurdt
05-04-2009, 09:43 PM
Congrats LBJ.. very well earned. I saw the voting and man I thought it would be closer but it was a landslide win.

Cant wait to see if the MVP can make it to the finals again.. :cool: but win a game or more :laugh2: :silly:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

NBA_Starter
05-04-2009, 09:56 PM
How do you spell LBJ- MVP!!

Congrats Bron Bron on a well deserved honor!:clap:

philab
05-04-2009, 10:02 PM
Because the current criteria is the way it is and there is no precedent doesn't mean the current way is the right way. It isn't.

If something has been broken for years, but nobody cares to fix it, it is still broken.

True, but we should suddenly change it the year it would help your boy out(assuming by the 'Zo Heat sig)? NO. That's how the award is given and how we should continue to evaluate it until there's a consensus for change.



You say the reasoning is flawed but no arguments as to why. I don't mind if you disagree, but at least explain why?

I did give reasons; they were just hidden in there somewhere.

Basically, you're saying that because Wade's team would be AWFUL (and I agree to this extent) that since they won 43 games, he should be MVP. What about a bad team that would win, say, 20 games without their superstar that wins 60 instead? An MVP candidate's supporting cast being passable shouldn't be a detriment to the candidate.

In other words, you're looking at the wrong part of the equation. We shouldn't look at how bad the supporting cast is but instead how much better the player made the team (using the strict "valuable" criteria). Just because Wade's team was awful and he was amazing doesn't make him MVP. It's certainly nothing against him, but we shouldn't throw out candidates on good teams just because their supporting casts aren't awful.



Btw I agree about Lebron possibly having earned an MVP already, but I don't agree about Kobe. Kobe Bryant has been too one dimensional (he has been scoring, A LOT, which is great, but that's what they have the scoring title for) while Lebron has been much more allround indeed.

LeBron should have two for sure by my "valuable" criteria (assuming we're adopting a "valuable" criteria): '05-'06 and '07-'08. This year would be between LeBron and Wade and an argument, although a relatively weak one, could be made for '06-'07.

I'm not as versed in the Kobe MVP races of 6-7 years ago, but I wouldn't argue if he'd picked up one in '04-'05 and maybe another year in there.



Chris Paul was robbed last year, and Dirk didn't deserve it either, so that's a lot of times they messed it up. Steve Nash was the last winner who really deserved it, although one of those years Shaq had an equal claim Imo (his first year in Miami).

Steve Nash never deserved one of those MVPs. I love the guy, but no dice. He was a great player surrounded by a good cast in a stat-padding offensive system. Chris Paul by no means got robbed last year. Last year was between Kobe and LeBron and a good case could be made either way (obviously I think it goes LeBron's way, but whatever).



And yes, Wade would definitely win using my criteria. Do you really think the HEAT wouldn't lose more games than they did now without Wade than the Cavs or Lakers would without Lebron or Kobe :eyebrow:

Cavs and Lakers would still be playing .500 ball probably while Miami would be bottom 3 in the league again. I'm not sure they would even win more than 10 games.

Lebron has a very strong case for the MVP, and I am not bothered by him getting it, but still his case is not as strong as Wade's.

Again, the award isn't for "Worst Supporting Cast" -- it's for Most Valuable Player. Yes, the Heat would lose more games without Wade than the Cavaliers without LeBron. THE CAVALIERS ALSO WON 23 MORE GAMES OVERALL. It's not like both teams had the same record and you're making that argument.

A lot of people are overestimating the Cavaliers supporting cast. It's not very good -- really, not great at all. It's a team that fits LeBron well (or better than any team he's had), but none of those guys even sniff All-Star status without LeBron. Mo didn't even make it as it was until two went down, and without LeBron he'd be a mediocre volume-scoring PG. Z is solid and was very good seven years ago, but those days are long past.

Again, looked at the value added to the team by the candidate, not the value of the supporting cast without the candidate.


And finally, to reiterate, I have no problem with Wade for MVP arguments except for that there's no precedent. Given past voting history, LeBron's MVP should have been unanimous this year: best record, great stats, superstar, no previous MVPs. These shouldn't be the criteria . . . but they are.

philab
05-04-2009, 10:06 PM
Lebron is not clutch yet nor is he not clutch hes in between

ask anyone kobe still the biggest killer in the fourth. thats lebrons final step to all time greatness. hes a superstar check that the superstar only to be matched by kobe, and he does everything but cook his own meals and wipe his own @$$ but hes still not the kyra sedwrick of basketball

thats kobe

Wrong.

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM (notice the difference in minutes and who leads +/- in each)

Lebron23
05-04-2009, 10:20 PM
First he is 30. Second you are biased. Kobe is not on the decline. Keep thinking that he is. He is better right now than he has ever been. He will be playing like this until 33 years old at least.

LeBron is not better than Kobe. Everyone knows that.
Kobe can do everything.
LeBron can do everything, but shoot from the perimeter and foul line.
That is why Kobe is better because his game is more complete. To be honest, I think Wade is the second best because his game is more complete than LeBrons.
Remember one thing as well
Kobe has three rings.
LeBron has zero. It isn't easy to get three rings.

Don't respond to my post please. I don't want to hear you biased garbage.
Let this year speak for it.



LeBron is the better all around player. He averaged more points, assists, rebounds, blocks, steals than Kobe Bryant in the last 2 NBA Seasons. He's also 2nd in the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Voting.

And I really hated using the rings argument because Kobe never won an NBA Championship as the no.1 option of his team.

Its like saying than Pippen is better than Kobe and Lebron because he won 6th Rings as the sidekick of Michael Jordan.

One thing is for sure LeBron is going to win more MVP Awards and Finals MVP than Kobe Bryant before he retires in the NBA.

Don't respond to my post please because you are an ignorant b@stard.

And to be honest you are a very Stupid Kobe Fan boy. Wade and Kobe are both older than LeBron, but he's clearly the best individual and team player in the NBA.

ARMIN12NBA
05-04-2009, 10:40 PM
LeBron is the better all around player. He averaged more points, assists, rebounds, blocks, steals than Kobe Bryant in the last 2 NBA Seasons. He's also 2nd in the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Voting.

Averaging more in stats does not make you a better all around player. Kobe is a better scorer, but he averages less points. Why? He sacrifices a lot of his points and plays less minutes. Not to mention Kobe is nearing 31 and is on the decline. Prime Kobe is a better overall player and better defender.

BTW--Please don't bring up DPOY voting. What a farce and joke that was. It was basically a popularity contest of the young stars. Lebron, Chris Paul, and Wade? Are you kidding me?


And I really hated using the rings argument because Kobe never won an NBA Championship as the no.1 option of his team.

Kobe was the co #1 option during those runs and everybody in their right minds knows that. He often took care of the WC playoffs while Shaq beat up on Smits and McCullough. :laugh2:


Its like saying than Pippen is better than Kobe and Lebron because he won 6th Rings as the sidekick of Michael Jordan.

Completely different situation. Kobe was more of a #1 option than Pippen and is obviously the better player.


One thing is for sure LeBron is going to win more MVP Awards and Finals MVP than Kobe Bryant before he retires in the NBA.

For sure? I agree on MVP awards, but Finals MVP? The Lakers can easily win the title 3 times in the next 5 years with Kobe winning Finals MVP. Are you sure Lebron will get that many?

Kenny
05-04-2009, 10:58 PM
How did I know Armin would come in and defend Kobe.. Shocker

philab
05-04-2009, 11:06 PM
For sure? I agree on MVP awards, but Finals MVP? The Lakers can easily win the title 3 times in the next 5 years with Kobe winning Finals MVP.

EASILY win three of the next five titles? Seriously?

Like, really, seriously?

EASILY win three of the next five titles?

Really?


I'm just stunned by this. Back off from the superlatives for a second there. Really, if you stick by this statement, your credibility will take quite a hit in my book. I know you don't care, but still.


I'm not saying it can't happen, but EASILY? EASILY? Three of the next five? When has that EVER been easy? Maybe the second Bulls' three-peat, but the league is a lot more competitive these days.

ARMIN12NBA
05-04-2009, 11:07 PM
How did I know Armin would come in and defend Kobe.. Shocker

Lebron is 3-6 against the elite.

(Waiting for your defense :p). Just playing though. I have my opinion and some people have fallen in line with the fallacies of what was the Lakers three-peat team. People don't realize how much of Kobe's stats suffered for the betterment of the team. Of course, I love that as a fan because winning is more important than stats. But when we get into the discussion of individual players then that is obviously a factor. As I have stated, Kobe has never had the perfect squad around him to compliment his own abilities like Lebron has had.

ARMIN12NBA
05-04-2009, 11:10 PM
EASILY win three of the next five titles? Seriously?

Like, really, seriously?

EASILY win three of the next five titles?

Really?


I'm just stunned by this. Back off from the superlatives for a second there. Really, if you stick by this statement, your credibility will take quite a hit in my book. I know you don't care, but still.


I'm not saying it can't happen, but EASILY? EASILY? Three of the next five? When has that EVER been easy? Maybe the second Bulls' three-peat, but the league is a lot more competitive these days.

Easily as in it is plausible. As in, it is not out of this realm. As in, everything is in place for that to possibly happen.

philab
05-04-2009, 11:26 PM
Easily as in it is plausible. As in, it is not out of this realm. As in, everything is in place for that to possibly happen.

Very strange usage of "easily" there if that's the case.

I mean, the Kings could "easily" win a title in the next five years by that logic (well, except for the everything in place part -- yikes).

I'll agree that it's plausible, certainly. I really, really doubt that it happens -- nothing against Kobe or the Lakers, just my opinion.

ARMIN12NBA
05-04-2009, 11:32 PM
Very strange usage of "easily" there if that's the case.

I mean, the Kings could "easily" win a title in the next five years by that logic (well, except for the everything in place part -- yikes).

I'll agree that it's plausible, certainly. I really, really doubt that it happens -- nothing against Kobe or the Lakers, just my opinion.

It came out better in my mind. :laugh2: But yah, I meant easily as in things are very much in place to happen in terms of the age of players and whatnot. If they win this year then I can definitely see the Lakers winning 2 of the next 4.

philab
05-04-2009, 11:52 PM
It came out better in my mind. :laugh2: But yah, I meant easily as in things are very much in place to happen in terms of the age of players and whatnot. If they win this year then I can definitely see the Lakers winning 2 of the next 4.

Eh, I really find three in five hard to fathom.

If they win this year, I could see one more definitely. If they don't win this year, I can really only imagine one more -- maybe two if everything went right.

Basically, after this year, Kobe's only got three more seasons of superstar, "lead-a-team-to-a-championship" play in him. IMO, of course. And I don't think Bynum quite has that kind of play in him.

I'm really starting to wonder about the Lakers against the Rockets this year. I said this (albeit to myself) before the series, but the Rockets could "easily" :D pull off the upset here. Trust me, this isn't a knock on the Lakers -- I'm terrified of the Rockets facing the Cavaliers. Any team that can throw Artest and Battier at you defensively all game will be tough. And Yao virtually guarantees his points because it's impossible to defend him when he's on.

Tight game so far -- this should be a good series.

ARMIN12NBA
05-04-2009, 11:57 PM
Eh, I really find three in five hard to fathom.

If they win this year, I could see one more definitely. If they don't win this year, I can really only imagine one more -- maybe two if everything went right.

Basically, after this year, Kobe's only got three more seasons of superstar, "lead-a-team-to-a-championship" play in him. IMO, of course. And I don't think Bynum quite has that kind of play in him.

I'm really starting to wonder about the Lakers against the Rockets this year. I said this (albeit to myself) before the series, but the Rockets could "easily" :D pull off the upset here. Trust me, this isn't a knock on the Lakers -- I'm terrified of the Rockets facing the Cavaliers. Any team that can throw Artest and Battier at you defensively all game will be tough. And Yao virtually guarantees his points because it's impossible to defend him when he's on.

Tight game so far -- this should be a good series.

The Rockets did dominate Lebron and the Cavs at home this year. The thing about Yao is that he doesn't have the stamina or dominance factor. He will give you 20/10, but not much more. He doesn't have the "Shaq" mode where he will go out and win a series putting up 35/15 every night. Not to mention Artest/Battier combo isn't going to work every night. I really think the Lakers take this in 5, 6 at most. The Lakers are very rusty. Expect them to start to pull away in the second half.

philab
05-05-2009, 12:04 AM
The Rockets did dominate Lebron and the Cavs at home this year. The thing about Yao is that he doesn't have the stamina or dominance factor. He will give you 20/10, but not much more. He doesn't have the "Shaq" mode where he will go out and win a series putting up 35/15 every night. Not to mention Artest/Battier combo isn't going to work every night. I really think the Lakers take this in 5, 6 at most. The Lakers are very rusty. Expect them to start to pull away in the second half.

Agreed on Yao, but it never hurts to have a guy like that when points are hard to come by.

I don't agree on the Artest/Battier thing, defensively (my original point). It will work every night in the playoffs. Kobe (or whoever) could certainly torch them, but he's going to have to work damn hard to do so.

I definitely think it's the Lakers' series, but a tough seven wouldn't surprise me in the least. I can see six too . . . an upset would surprise me but not as much as some others I expect.

The lack of a "closer" is probably the Rockets' downfall here. We'll see.


And yes, the Rockets humiliated Cleveland in Houston.

cmstophe
05-05-2009, 10:21 AM
Can't just assume that what happened in the reg. season will occur in the playoffs. I can't tell you how many Lakers fans right now are going, "But...but...we swept the Rockets in the regular season! How could this happen?!"

It's the playoffs people. Teams play harder, tougher, and put forth maximum effort because the season just became a sprint rather than a marathon.

DJ CHACH
05-05-2009, 10:37 AM
its all rigged...at least if they wanna give him mvp, then give spoelstra coach of the year

Kabowdos
05-05-2009, 10:46 AM
LeBron is the better all around player. He averaged more points, assists, rebounds, blocks, steals than Kobe Bryant in the last 2 NBA Seasons. He's also 2nd in the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Voting.

And I really hated using the rings argument because Kobe never won an NBA Championship as the no.1 option of his team.

Its like saying than Pippen is better than Kobe and Lebron because he won 6th Rings as the sidekick of Michael Jordan.

One thing is for sure LeBron is going to win more MVP Awards and Finals MVP than Kobe Bryant before he retires in the NBA.

Don't respond to my post please because you are an ignorant b@stard.

And to be honest you are a very Stupid Kobe Fan boy. Wade and Kobe are both older than LeBron, but he's clearly the best individual and team player in the NBA.

LeBron is not complete he can't shoot. We all know this.
Kobe and Wade have much better outside shots then LeBron. Kobe can create his own shot anytime he wants, he is better in the clutch. LeBron can not create his own shot he needs picks and help.

LeBron is no question one of the best in the league, but when you break it down to game time when you have use all of your abilities... Kobe has the edge.

LeBron is SF and KB is a SG.
LeBron should be compared to Oscar Robinson. He is not even in the class of Jordan, Kobe, or Wade, they play different positions.

When are you going to realize that stats mean nothing as well?
When Jordan won his six rings his stats declined every year from 1-2-3-4-5-6. Stats are overrated. Age is overrated.

masalex1205
05-05-2009, 10:48 AM
Im only going to say this once: the mvp doesn't matter and people shouldn't care about it. It's just something for ESPN to report on (24 hr news cycle) and to give something for bloggers/posters to argue about. People don't remember how many MVPs a player won in the end, they remember championships. IMO Jordan is remembered because of his titles, not his MVP trophies. Players who win the titles are Champions forever.

theimortalone
05-05-2009, 10:57 AM
LJ23 deserved this award 100%. His stats were phenomanal! Congrats!

Jaji
05-05-2009, 11:04 AM
Best player in the league. Now imagine what will happen when he actually learns how to play! I predict he will break out this post season.

Hawkeye15
05-05-2009, 11:06 AM
Averaging more in stats does not make you a better all around player. Kobe is a better scorer, but he averages less points. Why? He sacrifices a lot of his points and plays less minutes. Not to mention Kobe is nearing 31 and is on the decline. Prime Kobe is a better overall player and better defender.

BTW--Please don't bring up DPOY voting. What a farce and joke that was. It was basically a popularity contest of the young stars. Lebron, Chris Paul, and Wade? Are you kidding me?



Kobe was the co #1 option during those runs and everybody in their right minds knows that. He often took care of the WC playoffs while Shaq beat up on Smits and McCullough. :laugh2:



Completely different situation. Kobe was more of a #1 option than Pippen and is obviously the better player.



For sure? I agree on MVP awards, but Finals MVP? The Lakers can easily win the title 3 times in the next 5 years with Kobe winning Finals MVP. Are you sure Lebron will get that many?


A better overall player? That is arguable all day long, and you know that. And LeBron plays in a slower offense, gets less opportunities, and stats don't stop at scoring. LeBron is a better rebounder and passer.
He was not the #1 option, and yet again I have to explain this, because teams devised and ENTIRE DEFENSE to stop SHaq at all costs, and that meant letting Kobe run wild. Tell me something. As a coach, and you know that a team has a center who can not be covered man to man, or singled up, what do you do? You have a game plan. You crowd his side of the floor, you have a player halfway to him at all times. When the ball goes to him, you have at least an extra man, sometimes 2, running at him. You give up dribble drives and three's this way, because its better than allowing the 7'1", 330 lb dude (who averaged 35/15/3 in the same 3 finals) to turn and dunk everytime. This allows for a good perimeter player to capitalize. There is no argument against this. At all. I watched those series. Just like I watched the Miami run in 2006. And just like Nick Anderson, or Penny, or Nick Van Exel, all accelerated before Kobe. I am not comparing them to Kobe, but you get my drift. Kobe was FAR more replaceable on those teams than Shaq. That would make him option B.
As far as DPOY votes, if what you and many Laker fans say is true, than it reaffirms my questioning Kobe making 1st team all defense here and there. Awards are jokes, but we all know that.

As for MVP's yes, he will win more, but everyone knows those awards are media driven, and a waste of everyone's time. Finals MVP's? They are on even playing ground. So yes, LeBron should have a shot at more.

Some of Lakers bias has no boundries. Its incredible. You're favorite player is a top 20 player of all time. Once in a generation player. He is now on the decline. The next once in a generation wing player is here. Get over it already, and be happy that you are not super old or super young, and get to see these guys in their primes.

JordansBulls
05-05-2009, 11:37 AM
Yup.

Wilt- Best season at 25.
Russel- Best season at 25.
Oscar- Best season at 23.
Kareem- Best season at 24.
Magic- Best season at 25.
Jordan- Best season at 23.
Hakeem- Best season at 27.
Shaq- Best season at 27.
Kobe- Best season at 24.

Maybe I'm wrong, but most great players have had their season around the age of 25. Not to mention lots of these guys came out in college. Lebron has had the most mileage out of any NBA player at his age. We will see I guess. Lebron may just be a physical freak that defies history.

MJ's best season was in 1987-1988 or 1990-1991. Those were the years he put up his highest PER and had 2 of the top 3 highest win shares total ever.

cynomatic
05-05-2009, 11:39 AM
not a huge suprise Lebron won ...he has been sick

Lebron23
05-05-2009, 07:17 PM
LeBron is not complete he can't shoot. We all know this.
Kobe and Wade have much better outside shots then LeBron. Kobe can create his own shot anytime he wants, he is better in the clutch. LeBron can not create his own shot he needs picks and help.


LeBron is a better 3 points shooter than Dwayne Wade. LeBron is the one that's creating for his teammates.

He's a better passer, scorer, rebounder, and defender than Kobe Bryant this season, and watch some Cavaliers Games before you posts some Garbage in this forum.

LeBron is a much complete player than Kobe Bryant because he's leading the NBA in Triple Double's this year.

Check the Clutch Stats on 82 games.com LeBron is the clutchest player in the NBA in the last 2 years.

2007-08

http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

2008-09

http://www.82games.com/0809/QTR4S11.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

The guy is the youngest MVP since Moses Malone, and when he's the same age as Kobe Bryant he's already have 4 or 5 MVP Awards in the Regular Season, but LeBron's main goal this season is to win an NBA Championship for his team.


Im only going to say this once: the mvp doesn't matter and people shouldn't care about it. It's just something for ESPN to report on (24 hr news cycle) and to give something for bloggers/posters to argue about. People don't remember how many MVPs a player won in the end, they remember championships. IMO Jordan is remembered because of his titles, not his MVP trophies. Players who win the titles are Champions forever.

Without the MVP Awards Steve Nash will not be inducted in the HOF in the near future because the guy never led his team in the NBA Finals despite having an outstanding supporting casts from 2004-2009.

LeBron is only 24 yrs.old, and his team is currently the hottest team in the NBA. They won 66 games in the Regular Season, and they Swept the Pistons in the First Round.

Michael Jordan was already 28 yrs.old and 6 months when he won his first NBA Championship Ring back in 1991.

cmstophe
05-05-2009, 07:19 PM
LeBron's clutch time is the entire 4th quarter.

Kobe's clutch time is the final moments of the game.

ARMIN12NBA
05-05-2009, 07:23 PM
MJ's best season was in 1987-1988 or 1990-1991. Those were the years he put up his highest PER and had 2 of the top 3 highest win shares total ever.

Michael was 24 in 1988...

Lebron23
05-05-2009, 07:27 PM
LeBron's clutch time is the entire 4th quarter.

Kobe's clutch time is the final moments of the game.

LeBron is Leading the NBA in Game Winning Shots (2003-2009 NBA Season)

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

ARMIN12NBA
05-05-2009, 07:27 PM
A better overall player? That is arguable all day long, and you know that.

Agreed. Of course it is arguable.


He was not the #1 option, and yet again I have to explain this, because teams devised and ENTIRE DEFENSE to stop SHaq at all costs, and that meant letting Kobe run wild.

That is not true. Even with the implement of the zone defense, Kobe was still a top priority next to Shaq. When Kobe was killing the Spurs in 2001, Pop even said so. Shaq, himself, said Kobe was the best player in the game.


Tell me something. As a coach, and you know that a team has a center who can not be covered man to man, or singled up, what do you do?

I double down from the weakest player on their team. Thus, not hurting my team by allowing another good offensive weapon from going off. Unless I have a very good man on man defender.


You have a game plan. You crowd his side of the floor, you have a player halfway to him at all times. When the ball goes to him, you have at least an extra man, sometimes 2, running at him. You give up dribble drives and three's this way, because its better than allowing the 7'1", 330 lb dude (who averaged 35/15/3 in the same 3 finals) to turn and dunk everytime. This allows for a good perimeter player to capitalize. There is no argument against this. At all. I watched those series.

You're right...except they doubled down from Harper, Fox, Fisher, Horry, etc. This is why those guys played great for a while. Kobe was not left wide open like you insinuate.

philab
05-05-2009, 07:29 PM
^^Only for like a month and a half though, right?

EDIT: About Jordan's age in '88.

philab
05-05-2009, 08:04 PM
Stern looks a little too happy to be giving LeBron the MVP. Uncomfortable.

TRoY43
05-05-2009, 08:25 PM
Congrats to LeBron, he definitely deserved the award this year.

tdunk21
05-05-2009, 08:37 PM
totally deserving......

amos1er
05-05-2009, 09:39 PM
I think we all know who the real MVP is................the real MVP is the guy who held the MVP award winner to 15 points, 2 assists, and 3 rebounds in his only loss at home this year.

Kobe steps up when it counts..............The only thing that Lebron (ie. the chosen one) has done in his entire career is put up pretty stats in meaningless games. Just like with team USA when Lebron dominated against all the 3rd world countries and yet again flaunted some meaningless stats.......Kobe then came in and won the gold for him by hitting all the clutch shots in a fourth quarter that Lebron, Wade and company almost blew against the only team that posed a threat.

Big deal that the Cavs had one more win than that Lakers.......the east is a joke conference anyways......if the Lakers were in the east they would have broken the 72 game record set by the 97 Bulls. If the Cavs were in the west they would have have been lucky have have won 55 games.

Furthermore......the MVP is supposed to go to the best player on the best team. Or so we have been told my the ever fickle media that seems to chance the qualifications for the award every year in order to fit whatever mold isn't Kobe Bryant. I'll just chalk this year up as another robbery for an award that is no longer based on merit; only politics and sneaker endorsements. The only real winners are Nike, Gatorade and the many Kobe haters out there. For shame :pity:

dee279
05-05-2009, 09:43 PM
i knew this b4 the season even started

dee279
05-05-2009, 09:43 PM
But not saying it is not deserved

amos1er
05-05-2009, 10:42 PM
I think we all know who the real MVP is................the real MVP is the guy who held the MVP award winner to 15 points, 2 assists, and 3 rebounds in his only loss at home this year.

Kobe steps up when it counts..............The only thing that Lebron (ie. the chosen one) has done in his entire career is put up pretty stats in meaningless games. Just like with team USA when Lebron dominated against all the 3rd world countries and yet again flaunted some meaningless stats.......Kobe then came in and won the gold for him by hitting all the clutch shots in a fourth quarter that Lebron, Wade and company almost blew against the only team that posed a threat.

Big deal that the Cavs had one more win than that Lakers.......the east is a joke conference anyways......if the Lakers were in the east they would have broken the 72 game record set by the 97 Bulls. If the Cavs were in the west they would have have been lucky have have won 55 games.

Furthermore......the MVP is supposed to go to the best player on the best team. Or so we have been told my the ever fickle media that seems to chance the qualifications for the award every year in order to fit whatever mold isn't Kobe Bryant. I'll just chalk this year up as another robbery for an award that is no longer based on merit; only politics and sneaker endorsements. The only real winners are Nike, Gatorade and the many Kobe haters out there. For shame :pity:

Lebron23
05-05-2009, 10:49 PM
It looks like Superkegger and Lakers1983 are the only reasonable Lakers fan on PSD. LeBron owned Kobe in their Career Regular Season Matchup, and Last year the Cavaliers swept the Lakers in the Regular Season, but even the Cavaliers fans admitted than Kobe deserved his first MVP Award Last Year.

LeBron's Team is the best Team in the Regular Season, and the Cavaliers are still undefeated in the playoffs.

You are an idiot if you think that LeBron didn't deserved the MVP Award.

ARMIN12NBA
05-05-2009, 10:50 PM
It looks like Superkegger is the only reasonable Lakers fan on PSD. LeBron owned Kobe in their Career Regular Season Matchup. and Last year the Cavaliers swept the Lakers in the Regular Season, but even the Cavaliers fans admitted than Kobe deserved his first MVP Award Last Year.

LeBron's Team is the best Team in the Regular Season, and they are still undefeated in the playoffs.

I said Lebron deserved the MVP.

BTW--This is the first year in which Kobe and Lebron went head to head for a game. They usually do not guard each other for long stretches and if you have been a Cavs fan since before this year then you would know that.

Lebron23
05-05-2009, 10:55 PM
I said Lebron deserved the MVP.

BTW--This is the first year in which Kobe and Lebron went head to head for a game. They usually do not guard each other for long stretches and if you have been a Cavs fan since before this year then you would know that.


:clap::clap::clap:


I love to see Kobe and LeBron in the NBA Finals this year.

cmstophe
05-05-2009, 10:56 PM
If the Cavs were in the west they would have have been lucky have have won 55 games.

lol

Cavs record vs West this year?

Lebron23
05-05-2009, 10:59 PM
lol

Cavs record vs West this year?

26-4


Lakers vs. The East

21-9

East vs. West

221-219

ARMIN12NBA
05-05-2009, 11:09 PM
26-4


Lakers vs. The East

21-9

East vs. West

221-219

That East vs. West number is highly skewed because of the Kings, I believe, 1 win against the East.

IRUAM #21
05-05-2009, 11:51 PM
I think we all know who the real MVP is................the real MVP is the guy who held the MVP award winner to 15 points, 2 assists, and 3 rebounds in his only loss at home this year.

Kobe steps up when it counts..............The only thing that Lebron (ie. the chosen one) has done in his entire career is put up pretty stats in meaningless games. Just like with team USA when Lebron dominated against all the 3rd world countries and yet again flaunted some meaningless stats.......Kobe then came in and won the gold for him by hitting all the clutch shots in a fourth quarter that Lebron, Wade and company almost blew against the only team that posed a threat.

Big deal that the Cavs had one more win than that Lakers.......the east is a joke conference anyways......if the Lakers were in the east they would have broken the 72 game record set by the 97 Bulls. If the Cavs were in the west they would have have been lucky have have won 55 games.

Furthermore......the MVP is supposed to go to the best player on the best team. Or so we have been told my the ever fickle media that seems to chance the qualifications for the award every year in order to fit whatever mold isn't Kobe Bryant. I'll just chalk this year up as another robbery for an award that is no longer based on merit; only politics and sneaker endorsements. The only real winners are Nike, Gatorade and the many Kobe haters out there. For shame :pity:

Homer of the year ?????

JordansBulls
05-05-2009, 11:53 PM
I think we all know who the real MVP is................the real MVP is the guy who held the MVP award winner to 15 points, 2 assists, and 3 rebounds in his only loss at home this year.

Kobe steps up when it counts..............The only thing that Lebron (ie. the chosen one) has done in his entire career is put up pretty stats in meaningless games. Just like with team USA when Lebron dominated against all the 3rd world countries and yet again flaunted some meaningless stats.......Kobe then came in and won the gold for him by hitting all the clutch shots in a fourth quarter that Lebron, Wade and company almost blew against the only team that posed a threat.

Big deal that the Cavs had one more win than that Lakers.......the east is a joke conference anyways......if the Lakers were in the east they would have broken the 72 game record set by the 97 Bulls. If the Cavs were in the west they would have have been lucky have have won 55 games.

Furthermore......the MVP is supposed to go to the best player on the best team. Or so we have been told my the ever fickle media that seems to chance the qualifications for the award every year in order to fit whatever mold isn't Kobe Bryant. I'll just chalk this year up as another robbery for an award that is no longer based on merit; only politics and sneaker endorsements. The only real winners are Nike, Gatorade and the many Kobe haters out there. For shame :pity:

Probably the most inaccurate post in this thread.

cmstophe
05-06-2009, 01:35 AM
Probably the most inaccurate post in this thread.

I kind of wish this site banned for stupid posting but I guess we have free speech, so people are allowed to post the tripe like the one you quoted. *sigh*


26-4


Lakers vs. The East

21-9

East vs. West

221-219

Thank ya sir. Boy, I sure do wish the Cavs got to play:

-Denver
-Golden State
-LA Clips
-Sac Kings
-Minnesota
-OKC
-Memphis
-Phoenix
-Dallas

more times per year! Cavs might win even MORE games then. Too bad we're in the East.

edit: not that Denver and Dallas or horrible teams, or even Phoenix, but those are teams the Cavs swept in convincing fashion.

tdunk21
05-06-2009, 03:08 AM
I think we all know who the real MVP is................the real MVP is the guy who held the MVP award winner to 15 points, 2 assists, and 3 rebounds in his only loss at home this year.

Kobe steps up when it counts..............The only thing that Lebron (ie. the chosen one) has done in his entire career is put up pretty stats in meaningless games. Just like with team USA when Lebron dominated against all the 3rd world countries and yet again flaunted some meaningless stats.......Kobe then came in and won the gold for him by hitting all the clutch shots in a fourth quarter that Lebron, Wade and company almost blew against the only team that posed a threat.

Big deal that the Cavs had one more win than that Lakers.......the east is a joke conference anyways......if the Lakers were in the east they would have broken the 72 game record set by the 97 Bulls. If the Cavs were in the west they would have have been lucky have have won 55 games.

Furthermore......the MVP is supposed to go to the best player on the best team. Or so we have been told my the ever fickle media that seems to chance the qualifications for the award every year in order to fit whatever mold isn't Kobe Bryant. I'll just chalk this year up as another robbery for an award that is no longer based on merit; only politics and sneaker endorsements. The only real winners are Nike, Gatorade and the many Kobe haters out there. For shame :pity:

do u really think lakers were the best team in the league???
what r u tryin to prove??:rolleyes:
dude is so irrelevant
lebron is MVP ....get over it....

DreamShaker
05-06-2009, 03:29 AM
Kobe should have won the 2006 MVP IMO...maybe 07....and he did win kit in 08....but he had no business even getting 1 first place vote this year....

ink
05-06-2009, 04:23 PM
Congrats to Lebron!! :clap: Well deserved.

Lebron23
05-07-2009, 03:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MendP4inwoI&feature=channel_page

LeBron James Receiving the MVP Award




Layups: It’s Official - LeBron’s Your 2009 MVP


Posted by Neil Paine on May 4, 2009

In case you hadn’t heard, LeBron James copped the Maurice Podoloff today, confirming what PER, SPM, Win Shares, and a million other metrics already knew. Here are the greatest individual seasons since 1974, in terms of Win Shares:

Player Year WS

----------------------------

Michael Jordan 1988 20.3
Michael Jordan 1996 20.3
Michael Jordan 1991 19.8
LeBron James 2009 19.6
Michael Jordan 1989 19.1


http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=2294

TheDiggler
05-07-2009, 05:17 AM
LeBron deserved the award. But, there's another guy who would deserve it too. I'm not going to name him, because the Cavs-Fans won't agree with me and this thread would be going in a wrong direction. Congrats Mr. James !

cmstophe
05-07-2009, 01:56 PM
LeBron deserved the award. But, there's another guy who would deserve it too. I'm not going to name him, because the Cavs-Fans won't agree with me and this thread would be going in a wrong direction. Congrats Mr. James !

Three guys could be given the award this year depending on what you believe in, all three deserved it. You know their names. However, the most deserving got it.

harm0n1x
05-07-2009, 02:06 PM
he should have been mvp last year too :)

Lebron23
05-07-2009, 02:28 PM
he should have been mvp last year too :)

The Cavaliers only won 45 games last year, and the NBA gave it to Kobe Bryant because they won 56 games in the 2007-08 NBA Season.

I think should have been the MVP back in 2006 because the Cavs won 50 games, and LeBron averaged 31.4 ppg /7.0 rpg/6.6 apg in the Regular Season.

JaySmoke
05-07-2009, 02:55 PM
lol @ u qouting me... u even had to change my words..get a life kid ur so sad.. evryone of ur post has u digging for some lebron stats lmao... ur sad

NBA-FAN4EVER
05-08-2009, 07:49 PM
Im late but well deserved Lebron. You earned it.

MightyMax
05-08-2009, 07:49 PM
It shoulda been Kobe or Chris Paul.

cmstophe
05-08-2009, 10:04 PM
It shoulda been Kobe or Chris Paul.

No.