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View Full Version : Does CP3's status take a hit after these playoffs?



superkegger
04-29-2009, 02:48 PM
17.75ppg
43.9% FG%
30.8% from 3
10.5apg
5.25TOPG
4rpg
1.25spg

All pretty significantly worse that his regular season stats

Now, some of the credit for his poor performance is the fact that his team isn't giving him much help. But he's the superstar on that team, and he's had a pretty pedestrian series for a superstar. So does his status as the run away best PG in the league take a hit because he's not played at that level when it counts the most?

DrDEADalready
04-29-2009, 02:59 PM
Just proves. Deron >>> Paul

the keefster
04-29-2009, 03:03 PM
^^ LOL!

u have to be joking, man. CP3 and Deron aren't even in the same category and never will be

not only is cp3 a better pg than deron, but he has less to work with around him than deron does. cp3 is gonna be one of the best point guards to ever play the game when his career is over. deron is just another good point guard. sorry dude. i'm not even trying to get this debate started---there is no debate.

Chicagofaithful
04-29-2009, 03:03 PM
i'm learning you have to be very physical in the NBA if you want to win, and while CP3 is the best PG in the game, he is very finesse oriented and not a physical. So i think it was just exploited in the series. He's still nasty... but you can't take that next step if you dont make the mental and physical jump, you wont go very far. Chauncey came from the pistons a hard nosed team, and its really paying off now.

still1ballin
04-29-2009, 03:06 PM
He is the leader of that team and to have more turnovers than points as well as losing by 58 in Game 4 is unacceptable.

tjlipford
04-29-2009, 03:07 PM
Kind of but its clear that that team needs help. They need a SG bad, to compliment CP because those alley oops that him and tyson chandler used to do is dead. That stuff wont work anymore. Also they are a soft team, and really dont have any good players besides CP, West, and Posey. The rest need to be replaced because a 58 point loss is unacceptable especially in the playoffs.

DrDEADalready
04-29-2009, 03:11 PM
If paul is so much greater than Deron. Why is it that deron owns paul all the time?

soundjunkies2
04-29-2009, 03:13 PM
If paul is so much greater than Deron. Why is it that deron owns paul all the time?

That doesn't really prove much but i do think Chris Paul and Derron Williams are about equal.Paul isn't on another level like many think he is.

the keefster
04-29-2009, 03:14 PM
cuz the jazz are currently a better TEAM. put cp3 on the jazz and deron on the hornets and deron will just look foolish.

DrDEADalready
04-29-2009, 03:16 PM
It proves alot. If you can beat everyone in the league. but not beat one person (Deron) Doesn't it make that one person better than you?

DrDEADalready
04-29-2009, 03:19 PM
cuz the jazz are currently a better TEAM. put cp3 on the jazz and deron on the hornets and deron will just look foolish.

Doubt it. Put Deron on the Hornets. No one one the Hornets, can score. Therefor Deron would have to be the number 1 option. Like Paul is. But yet. Deron is a better Shooter and Scorer. So Deron would have Way better stats then Paul would. Probably average close to 25 ppg. His assist would probably drop off though.

atl_braves_fan
04-29-2009, 03:21 PM
Yes. At the very least, he is the leader on a team that didn't even show up for a playoff series. You have to wonder what that says about his leadership qualities. However, he is still obviously a very talented player.

superkegger
04-29-2009, 03:22 PM
This is not a who is better, Paul or Deron thread. If you want to discuss that, go here (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353704).

Lakersfan2483
04-29-2009, 03:24 PM
17.75ppg
43.9% FG%
30.8% from 3
10.5apg
5.25TOPG
4rpg
1.25spg

All pretty significantly worse that his regular season stats

Now, some of the credit for his poor performance is the fact that his team isn't giving him much help. But he's the superstar on that team, and he's had a pretty pedestrian series for a superstar. So does his status as the run away best PG in the league take a hit because he's not played at that level when it counts the most?

I don't think his status as the top point guard will change because of one average playoff performance.

superkegger
04-29-2009, 03:26 PM
[/B]

I don't think his status as the top point guard will change because of one average playoff performance.

Maybe not, but before, most considered him the best PG with ease, yet he has kinda flopped here in the playoffs, and I'm just wondering if maybe people are now rethinking whether or not he's THAT far ahead of the field in terms of being the best pg.

Durant is hype
04-29-2009, 03:27 PM
It proves alot. If you can beat everyone in the league. but not beat one person (Deron) Doesn't it make that one person better than you?

:laugh2:

Seriously,though it doesn't. It's called matchups and I guess Deron is a bad matchup for CP3 but it doesn't mean he's better.

bostncelts34
04-29-2009, 03:30 PM
a little..but not much.

that 5.5 turnovers a game is pretty horrible tho. And thats on cp3, no one else.

JayW_1023
04-29-2009, 03:36 PM
No, he just needs help...his supporting cast has really declined in production as opposed to last season.

Brooke
04-29-2009, 03:52 PM
^^ LOL!

u have to be joking, man. CP3 and Deron aren't even in the same category and never will be

not only is cp3 a better pg than deron, but he has less to work with around him than deron does. cp3 is gonna be one of the best point guards to ever play the game when his career is over. deron is just another good point guard. sorry dude. i'm not even trying to get this debate started---there is no debate.


arent even in the same category? I completely disagree. I think they are pretty much even IMO

as for the question no he isnt. Chandler was hurt, Peja wasnt himself, West did nothing and the Hornets didnt really have a bench. He needs some help

JabberJaw
04-29-2009, 04:07 PM
No way does one playoff series hurt CP3's status. Look at what he is working with. He doesn't have anyone that is a real threat out there. Not to mention, the guys are specialists (shooting-Peja, defense-Posey, def./reb.-Chandler) aren't doing anything. Peja is terrible, as is Chandler. He is the best PG in the league, period. It's not even debatable.

dtmagnet
04-29-2009, 04:25 PM
He also looks like Carlton Banks from Fresh Prince.

IBleedPurple
04-29-2009, 04:33 PM
This is not a who is better, Paul or Deron thread. If you want to discuss that, go here (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353704).

Thank you. As for the topic, I think he has just been defended really well by the Nuggets, and his status will be the same come middle of the next regular season. He will be questioned more, yes. But the fact is, he is still one of the top young pg's in the league

superkegger
04-29-2009, 04:36 PM
People are making the argument that he has no help. To which I agree. But he's the superstar, and superstars are supposed to take their play to another level...CP3 has not done that. Even if his team flounders which they have, isn't he still supposed to rise to the occasion?

Kobe in the 05-06 playoffs, with a horribad team around him:
27.8 ppg
49.75 FG%
40% 3pt %
6.2 rpg
5.1 apg
4.7 TOpg
1.1 spg

LeBron in 05-06 with that quite mediocre team
30.7ppg
47.6% FG%
33.3 % 3pt%
8rpg
5.8 apg
5 TOpg
1.3 spg

Tony Parker 08-09 with no manu and a gimpy TD
28.6 ppg
54.4% FG%
4 rpg
6.8 apg
4 TOpg
1.1 spg

That's just a couple of cases where guys had really little help, but still rose to the occasion even if no one else did. It's what you're supposed to do if you're a superstar. CP3 hasn't really done that.

JJ81
04-29-2009, 04:40 PM
Yes.

Duncan = Donkey
04-29-2009, 04:46 PM
i think it has, he hasnt elevated his game in the playoffs. thats what superstars are supposed to do isnt it?

albertc86
04-29-2009, 05:06 PM
^^ LOL!

u have to be joking, man. CP3 and Deron aren't even in the same category and never will be

not only is cp3 a better pg than deron, but he has less to work with around him than deron does. cp3 is gonna be one of the best point guards to ever play the game when his career is over. deron is just another good point guard. sorry dude. i'm not even trying to get this debate started---there is no debate.

True, but Deron would've averaged 30+ ppg with no help. Paul may be the better PG, but Williams is the better player.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-29-2009, 05:11 PM
Just proves. Deron >>> Paul

LOLOL!! Does it??

I'm pretty sure Deron Williams is sittin at home right now invitin friends over to watch CP play against Denver tonight.

If the Nugget's were playin the Jazz we'd make him look like a subpar PG also. Nice try though.

superkegger
04-29-2009, 05:14 PM
I repeat, this is not a deron vs paul thread. We're not comparing the two here, we're talking about Paul poor performance and what effect it has on his status as the annointed best pg in the league and as an elite player.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-29-2009, 05:18 PM
True, but Deron would've averaged 30+ ppg with no help. Paul may be the better PG, but Williams is the better player.


LOL!!! Paul may be the better PG but Williams is better?? :clap: you sir, are a GENIUS!!

albertc86
04-29-2009, 05:19 PM
I repeat, this is not a deron vs paul thread. We're not comparing the two here, we're talking about Paul poor performance and what effect it has on his status as the annointed best pg in the league and as an elite player.

The Paul versus Williams argument goes hand-in-hand with your question. Posters are simply arguing that Williams, not Paul, is the best PG in the league. Does this series affect Paul's subpar performance? A little, but he'll redeem himself.

albertc86
04-29-2009, 05:21 PM
LOL!!! Paul may be the better PG but Williams is better?? :clap: you sir, are a GENIUS!!

Obviously you don't understand what I'm saying. Paul is the better PG, but Williams is the overall better player. There's a difference. Williams is a great PG, but he could just as easily take over a game and score like crazy. Paul can't do that.

CityofTreez
04-29-2009, 05:27 PM
All you guys argue over who is a better PG.

Where is Chauncey Billups in the argument. He has single-handedly took CP3 out of his game, he was taken out in the 3rd quarter. I've always preached D-Willz over CP3 (Fighting Illini fan), but w/ the last possession in the game-I'm giving the ball to Chauncey BBBBillups! IMO

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-29-2009, 05:28 PM
I repeat, this is not a deron vs paul thread. We're not comparing the two here, we're talking about Paul poor performance and what effect it has on his status as the annointed best pg in the league and as an elite player.

you right cuz we all know CB7 would give both of em the biz.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-29-2009, 05:29 PM
All you guys argue over who is a better PG.

Where is Chauncey Billups in the argument. He has single-handedly took CP3 out of his game, he was taken out in the 3rd quarter. I've always preached D-Willz over CP3 (Fighting Illini fan), but w/ the last possession in the game-I'm giving the ball to Chauncey BBBBillups! IMO

It's actually dhantay jones takin CP out...

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-29-2009, 05:34 PM
Obviously you don't understand what I'm saying. Paul is the better PG, but Williams is the overall better player. There's a difference. Williams is a great PG, but he could just as easily take over a game and score like crazy. Paul can't do that.

How is he the better player??? IF HE AINT EVEN THE BEST PLAYER AT HIS POSITION!!!!

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-29-2009, 05:35 PM
Obviously you don't understand what I'm saying. Paul is the better PG, but Williams is the overall better player. There's a difference. Williams is a great PG, but he could just as easily take over a game and score like crazy. Paul can't do that.

he can't score?? Why does CP average more points? and more boards... and more assists?

People are always talkin about "Williams can score 30 if he wanted to..."

THEN Y THE HELL DOESNT HE?!?! HIS TEAM JUST GOT ELIMINATED!!!! did he not wanna be in the playoffs that bad??? DAMN this argument pisses me off more than tha Kobe better than Jordan arguemnt

superkegger
04-29-2009, 05:37 PM
You know you can multi quote posts...just sayin

Squad13
04-29-2009, 06:27 PM
I think it does hurt his status, and I'll take Williams everyday of the week, you can have Paul.

albertc86
04-29-2009, 07:06 PM
How is he the better player??? IF HE AINT EVEN THE BEST PLAYER AT HIS POSITION!!!!

Dude, you're still missing the point.

chicago lulz
04-29-2009, 07:14 PM
He also looks like Carlton Banks from Fresh Prince.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.

carter15
04-29-2009, 07:31 PM
the team was just outmatched...chandler was hurt and west was off all series...so paul was all on his own.

ragee
04-29-2009, 07:33 PM
No... I believe it shouldn't affect it but I think it will... Look at Dirk... A great player but people think otherwise coz of the GS vs DAL series...

AirJordan23
04-29-2009, 08:16 PM
Not in my book. Paul didn't perform really well due to:
1. Having a subpar cast around him and poorly coached
2. Nugz did a great job at trapping him and limiting him off the PNR forcing him to give it up.

Even if Paul performed at a high level, this wouldn't be much of a series. Scott literally made no adjustments, his offensive set is pretty predictable. Only involves the PNR. Other than that, NOH's bench is pretty pathetic. Nobody to create their own offense, just Posey to git some big 3s and play defense. The rest are just energy guys. Lets face it, there are only 2 real offensive threats on the team: Paul and West. TC is offensively handicapped. Peja can't guard a chair and has been horrible this year due to injuries. I won't say Paul's stock has taken a hit, he's probably the only reason NOLA won game 3.

Hawkeye15
04-29-2009, 08:58 PM
I think it does a bit. It shows he doesn't belong in the LeBron/Wade/Kobe argment. But he is still the best PG in the world. No doubt. His team is in shambles.

bahama0811
04-29-2009, 09:12 PM
I don't care who's the better PG, they're both gonna be watching the rest of the playoffs so it doesn't really matter. You can discuss it next year when they are playing again.

I don't think this will hurt Chris Paul. George Karl acknowledged that he thinks CP3 is hurt. I don't know to what extent but he doesn't look right. The Hornets need to put a better team around him and he'll be great.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-29-2009, 09:35 PM
men lie, women lie, number's don't.

those who think DWill is better just check the stats.

Ironman5219
04-29-2009, 09:41 PM
cuz the jazz are currently a better TEAM. put cp3 on the jazz and deron on the hornets and deron will just look foolish.

You need to watch the NBA my friend. No way Paul would fit with the Jazz. There is a reason the Jazz Drafted Darren and not paul. Darren is the type of PG that fits in Salons system, as is Paul for the hornets. They are both top teir PG and the best thats out there. Oh and one more thing, he can't compete against PG's that are stronger than him ( try Billips and Willaims ) the results speak for themselves!:clap:

JordansBulls
04-29-2009, 09:51 PM
It proves alot. If you can beat everyone in the league. but not beat one person (Deron) Doesn't it make that one person better than you?

Wouldn't that make Yao better than Dwight than?

superkegger
04-29-2009, 09:55 PM
Wouldn't that make Yao better than Dwight than?

And Kobe better than Lebron as he outplayed him this year? But what does that have to do with anything? Way off topic. Guess you should hard delete your post.

Lakergirl24
04-30-2009, 01:48 AM
No, CP3 is still great. They just need to make some changes with the guys around him.

Lone Maverick
04-30-2009, 02:09 AM
No, doesn't affect his status. He will still be known as the best PG in the game.

Chronz
04-30-2009, 02:18 AM
It hurts his status as an All-Time legend considering every season marks a test to stack the results up next to the rest of the legends. In the league however, not one bit. Still easily the best PG in the league.


People are making the argument that he has no help. To which I agree. But he's the superstar, and superstars are supposed to take their play to another level...CP3 has not done that. Even if his team flounders which they have, isn't he still supposed to rise to the occasion?

Kobe in the 05-06 playoffs, with a horribad team around him:
27.8 ppg
49.75 FG%
40% 3pt %
6.2 rpg
5.1 apg
4.7 TOpg
1.1 spg

LeBron in 05-06 with that quite mediocre team
30.7ppg
47.6% FG%
33.3 % 3pt%
8rpg
5.8 apg
5 TOpg
1.3 spg

Tony Parker 08-09 with no manu and a gimpy TD
28.6 ppg
54.4% FG%
4 rpg
6.8 apg
4 TOpg
1.1 spg

I have a theory, dont know how true it is but its growing in numbers, scorers are more self sufficient than playmakers, their efforts tend to be more consistent because they arent as reliant on their teammates to make them effective.

Then again this can hold true to several players in some form or manner but in CP3's case the lack of help really got to him I mean CP3 wouldve been more effective if West wouldve have taken his beating like a man, or if Peja could stay healthy, and Tyson cant make plays, at some point robbing your PG of all his weapons leaves him with very little options.
Plus he was beat up physically, Im sure he has a few lingering injuries and to be fair he faced a pretty imposing defense. When you have to do EVERYTHING for your team, it can get overwhelming. To me you can be more understanding for playoff struggles if the player is; a) relatively new to the playoffs, b) facing a really good defensive team, or c)key members of your supporting cast completely fall apart before you. There are exceptions but to me I dont frown to badly on dropoffs like CP3's. The guys who play absolutely brilliant in spite of all those excuses though are on another level in my eyes.




That's just a couple of cases where guys had really little help, but still rose to the occasion even if no one else did. It's what you're supposed to do if you're a superstar. CP3 hasn't really done that.
CP3 is a young superstar though, TP at the same age was struggling, Bron see's his post season production dwindle and hes been in the playoffs 3 years prior to this one. And Kobe was pretty pedestrian in that playoff series, though some of that was attributable to PJ's strategy, the rest was on him settling or pouting.

I get your point though, CP3's dropoff was more substantial. So yea it does take a hit

THE MTL
04-30-2009, 02:21 AM
It just proves that Chris Paul's team is CRAP! Tyson Chandler is an injury-proned crackhead. David West is NOT an allstar! Put him on a regular team and his skill level is comparable to Paul Millsap!

DenButsu
04-30-2009, 03:03 AM
After what he accomplished last regular season, last playoffs, and this regular season, I think most will view this as somewhat of a fluke that's party due to injury and partly due to a lack of support from his teammates. But if his regular season and playoff performances are down next season, then this series will be seen as the first event in him losing some of his sparkle.

GspLAL
04-30-2009, 03:56 AM
Probably not but I still think Deron is better. His team was also pretty banged up and they put up a WAYYYYYY better fight against a better team (Lakers) and he showed that he can rally his team.

Tblaze
04-30-2009, 05:32 AM
It proves his team is very bad, which it is.. right now I'll take B-B-B-B-Billups for best pg in the league.

J-Relo
04-30-2009, 07:53 AM
He is young and still needs a lot to improve - playoffs just proved that...

DrDEADalready
04-30-2009, 11:21 AM
It proves his team is very bad, which it is.. right now I'll take B-B-B-B-Billups for best pg in the league.

:eyebrow: :speechless:

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-30-2009, 12:07 PM
B-B-B-B-Billups!!!

Raidaz4Life
04-30-2009, 12:20 PM
it sure seems like it.... I mean they got their faces beat in by Denver

Clutch6
04-30-2009, 12:24 PM
I deff think this impacts how Paul is viewed...

Knowledge
04-30-2009, 12:27 PM
No.

CP3 hid his teams weakness all regular season and they were exposed in the playoffs. Paul is the only player that can create his own shot and set up others on that team. David West has some skills in the high post, but he isn't a dominant presence either. Everyone on that team relies on Paul to penetrate and kick it out to them for open shoots.

m26555
04-30-2009, 04:05 PM
Yes; naturally, his status will take a hit. It doesn't mean that he has regressed at all or that he is no longer the best PG (arguably) in basketball, but when you get drilled in the first round while having a pretty mediocre series (at best) to boot, your status will most certainly drop.

Utahjazzfan18
04-30-2009, 04:35 PM
It definitely shows he's not that far ahead of the other star pg's, in fact I dont think he's any better then Billups, Williams, or Parker. The whole numbers dont lie speech is stupid as hell when it comes to the nba. Duncan doesn't always put up the greatest stats but he is without a doubt one of the best players. Iverson and Mcgrady can score 30 a game, JKidd can put up triple doubles alot but all 3 of them are more hurtful then helpful to me. Numbers are very deceiving in the nba and Billups is a good example of that. He might not put up Paul like numbers but his leadership is undeniable. I still think Paul is in the argument for best PG but he's definitely not the clear cut favorite unless you buy the "numbers dont lie" speech.

Vinny642
04-30-2009, 04:41 PM
If paul is so much greater than Deron. Why is it that deron owns paul all the time?

He didnt this season.............. and thats all that matters, i picked the third option, this is his only 3rd playoff series the first two were great.

KnicksorBust
04-30-2009, 07:34 PM
Maybe not, but before, most considered him the best PG with ease, yet he has kinda flopped here in the playoffs, and I'm just wondering if maybe people are now rethinking whether or not he's THAT far ahead of the field in terms of being the best pg.

I agree. That blowout lose at home was something that would never have happened to Magic or MJ. I mean maybe I'm foolish but from what we've seen of Chris Paul, he sure looked like a guy who had the potential to be a Top 25 player of all-time. Statistically he's on his own with points + assists + steals. No one can touch his regular season production. Now he's gotta match it with post season success.

I think Paul took a hit, David West took a big hit, and Tyson Chandler is falling off the radar altogether.

Wade_County
05-01-2009, 11:44 AM
NO

You take Lebron, Kobe, Wade etc and replace one of them for Paul, you think they would have won the series. Denver was just to good while NO is not. Get CP3 some better players around him and then have this conversation