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MagicBucsSox
04-23-2009, 06:50 PM
Apr 23, 2009 4:44 PM EST
Timberwolves rookie forward Kevin Love made his displeasure with the Rookie of the Year voting public on Wednesday night.

Love didn't have a problem with Chicago's Derrick Rose winning the award, but he didn't feel as though there were five rookies better than him this past season.

"Pardon my French, but it's the second time I've gotten screwed," Love told the Pioneer Press. "I definitely thought I would finish higher, but after the rookie-sophomore snub, I guess anything can happen."

Love led rookies in rebounding and double-doubles, but five players still finished above him in the voting.

"I guess I just needed to play a little better," Love said. "Maybe a 30th double-double would have made a difference.

" ... I'll take care of my business this summer, either here in Los Angeles or in Minnesota, and come back a better player and try to help my team win. Hopefully, 15 years from now I'll be able to look back on this and laugh".








i have 1 word, HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA

D_Rose1118
04-23-2009, 06:53 PM
lol thats pathetic be a professional

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 06:55 PM
whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, that is NOT what he said. He said he deserved more votes, and is still upset about not being named to the rookie team over the all star break, which is 100000% justified. Fix the title of this thread, seriously.

jim51990
04-23-2009, 06:56 PM
i agree with him he was overlooked all year
also oj should have won mvp he outplayed rose end of story (both are great) but oj was just a little better

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 06:56 PM
he should have finished higher than 6 is what he is saying. And he is right

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 06:57 PM
i agree with him he was overlooked all year
also oj should have won mvp he outplayed rose end of story (both are great) but oj was just a little better

no. Mayo started strong, was scouted, and got tired. He faded big time. He is 1st team all rookie, but should not have finished top 3 in the voting.
Rose
Lopez
Love

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 06:58 PM
Apr 23, 2009 4:44 PM EST
Timberwolves rookie forward Kevin Love made his displeasure with the Rookie of the Year voting public on Wednesday night.

Love didn't have a problem with Chicago's Derrick Rose winning the award, but he didn't feel as though there were five rookies better than him this past season.
"Pardon my French, but it's the second time I've gotten screwed," Love told the Pioneer Press. "I definitely thought I would finish higher, but after the rookie-sophomore snub, I guess anything can happen."

Love led rookies in rebounding and double-doubles, but five players still finished above him in the voting.

"I guess I just needed to play a little better," Love said. "Maybe a 30th double-double would have made a difference.

" ... I'll take care of my business this summer, either here in Los Angeles or in Minnesota, and come back a better player and try to help my team win. Hopefully, 15 years from now I'll be able to look back on this and laugh".





i have 1 word, HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA

He did not say he should have won it.

xSolidx
04-23-2009, 06:58 PM
he should have finished higher than 6 is what he is saying. And he is right
Exactly

He wasnt saying he shouldve won the award at all

Anyone know who were the other 4 rookies ahead of him?

It is surprising that he did finish 6th

theimortalone
04-23-2009, 06:59 PM
Apr 23, 2009 4:44 PM EST
Timberwolves rookie forward Kevin Love made his displeasure with the Rookie of the Year voting public on Wednesday night.

Love didn't have a problem with Chicago's Derrick Rose winning the award, but he didn't feel as though there were five rookies better than him this past season.

"Pardon my French, but it's the second time I've gotten screwed," Love told the Pioneer Press. "I definitely thought I would finish higher, but after the rookie-sophomore snub, I guess anything can happen."

Love led rookies in rebounding and double-doubles, but five players still finished above him in the voting.

"I guess I just needed to play a little better," Love said. "Maybe a 30th double-double would have made a difference.

" ... I'll take care of my business this summer, either here in Los Angeles or in Minnesota, and come back a better player and try to help my team win. Hopefully, 15 years from now I'll be able to look back on this and laugh".







i have 1 word, HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA

What a ****ing baby. Boo hoo. Get over it Love!

S.J.Basketball
04-23-2009, 07:00 PM
Thread title is misleading, BUT 5 players finished above him? Who were the 5?

ink
04-23-2009, 07:00 PM
Title is fixed. Love didn't say that he should be ROY, he was just surprised that he didn't even register in the top 5. Completely justified.

ProdigyI
04-23-2009, 07:00 PM
Love was snubbed this whole season. He should have gotten a lot more respect than he did.

ProdigyI
04-23-2009, 07:02 PM
Effing 40 year old man Oden made the team just because his name is Greg Oden.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 07:02 PM
Rose
Mayo
Lopez
Westbrook
Gordon
Love

There are the 5 ahead of him. I can buy Rose easy, and I can live with Lopez. The rest, not so much

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 07:04 PM
Title is fixed. Love didn't say that he should be ROY, he was just surprised that he didn't even register in the top 5. Completely justified.

thx

dtmagnet
04-23-2009, 07:07 PM
I don't see how Eric Gordon or Russ Westbrook should have finished higher than him, but he shouldn't have come out and said anything. People will only criticize him for these comments, it won't really make anyone actually think about it.

Truth
04-23-2009, 07:09 PM
Why does it matter if he was number 3 or 6? same result.

Jezeble
04-23-2009, 07:12 PM
Defense is not sexy. Nobody cares about rebounds and double-doubles. Just ask Al Horford, who found out the very same thing last year. Its a shame. Love will be an All Star in this League for years to come.

MagicBucsSox
04-23-2009, 07:22 PM
Rose
Mayo
Lopez
Westbrook
Gordon
Love

There are the 5 ahead of him. I can buy Rose easy, and I can live with Lopez. The rest, not so much


they are all better than him, like he only avg 11pts on the wolves in which he's the franchise guy, he's wack. eric gordon is a way better player and didnt get clock til january

MrBloop
04-23-2009, 07:34 PM
he should have finished higher than 6 is what he is saying. And he is right

Dude, Danillo Gallinari looked better than Kevin Love did with a bad back and 12 mins a game b4 shutting it down.

This guy is a joke...Kevin Love, not you.

Ollie Tabooger
04-23-2009, 07:35 PM
they are all better than him, like he only avg 11pts on the wolves in which he's the franchise guy, he's wack. eric gordon is a way better player and didnt get clock til january


+1. Love should stop whining. If he thinks he's so good maybe he should focus on trying to improve his skills to help his team instead of being a whiny little b****

superkegger
04-23-2009, 07:41 PM
A lot of Kevin Love hate. He had a fantastic year, and people just continue to doubt him. Don't get why...:shrug: He'll be even better next year, maybe then people will see he's a legit talent. Then again, he'll probably just get over looked again.

Second City
04-23-2009, 07:41 PM
Who cares, it's Kevin Love...

WSU Tony
04-23-2009, 07:45 PM
Dude, Danillo Gallinari looked better than Kevin Love did with a bad back and 12 mins a game b4 shutting it down.

This guy is a joke...Kevin Love, not you.


+1. Love should stop whining. If he thinks he's so good maybe he should focus on trying to improve his skills to help his team instead of being a whiny little b****

You guys need to look up his stats before you talk about him. Until you educate yourself with his game and what he did this season (as compared to other rookies) you don't understand the situation.

theuuord
04-23-2009, 07:46 PM
lol @ the Kevin Love hate when dude was easily the 3rd or 4th best rookie this year.

do your work, kids.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 07:50 PM
wow. Um, here you go

Love

4th all time in the history of the NBA in rebound rate for a rookie
3rd in the NBA in offensive rebounds a game
1st in all NBA rookies in, RPG, PER, Double doubles, and by a landslide
All time Timberwolves leader in total rebounds for a rookie
chipped in 11.1 ppg
In Al Jefferson's replacement role, went for 16/10

educate yourself before you make claims about something you don't know.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 07:52 PM
they are all better than him, like he only avg 11pts on the wolves in which he's the franchise guy, he's wack. eric gordon is a way better player and didnt get clock til january

ok. Minnesota has this young big man named Al Jefferson. Not sure if you have heard of him.

Burkey3472
04-23-2009, 08:04 PM
Love deserved to be third in the voting.

Rose
Lopez
Love

MiamiHeat
04-23-2009, 08:06 PM
He did deserve more votes, he was wayyy better than advertised
I personally thought he was going to be bust, but he proved me wrong
he is a great rebounder and has a bright future.

oldenpolynice
04-23-2009, 08:13 PM
Rose
Mayo
Lopez
Westbrook
Gordon
Love

There are the 5 ahead of him. I can buy Rose easy, and I can live with Lopez. The rest, not so much

The voters got it right. It was a good draft class this season and all five of those guys deserved to be ahead of him. So what he had more double-doubles than anybody else? A big part of those numbers came from Al Jefferson's injury. If Al Jeff doesn't go down, Love doesn't get nearly as many double-doubles IMO.

theuuord
04-23-2009, 08:16 PM
The voters got it right. It was a good draft class this season and all five of those guys deserved to be ahead of him. So what he had more double-doubles than anybody else? A big part of those numbers came from Al Jefferson's injury. If Al Jeff doesn't go down, Love doesn't get nearly as many double-doubles IMO.

So because Love stepped up his game immensely with the absence of the franchise player, thus doing everything he can to fill his shoes - as a rookie, no less - that's a mark AGAINST him?

hmm.


Love was way more valuable than Gordon, more efficient than Mayo, and about even with Westbrook. He was way more valuable than people are giving him credit for.

oldenpolynice
04-23-2009, 08:27 PM
So because Love stepped up his game immensely with the absence of the franchise player, thus doing everything he can to fill his shoes - as a rookie, no less - that's a mark AGAINST him?

hmm.


Love was way more valuable than Gordon, more efficient than Mayo, and about even with Westbrook. He was way more valuable than people are giving him credit for.

Eric Gordon stepped up when Baron Davis was injured, but BD came back, thus cutting into Gordon's playing time. Russell Westbrook stepped up when Kevin Durant was injured, but KD came back, thus cutting into Russ' field goal opportunities.

Had BD and KD been out for the rest of the year like Al Jeff, this wouldn't even be an argument. Gordon and Westbrook would be indisputable 4 & 5.

WSU Tony
04-23-2009, 08:32 PM
The voters got it right. It was a good draft class this season and all five of those guys deserved to be ahead of him. So what he had more double-doubles than anybody else? A big part of those numbers came from Al Jefferson's injury. If Al Jeff doesn't go down, Love doesn't get nearly as many double-doubles IMO.

As said earlier, when Al went down, Love went for 16/10. When did your boy, gordon, put up anywhere CLOSE to those numbers? How about when Davis went down?

theuuord
04-23-2009, 08:36 PM
Eric Gordon stepped up when Baron Davis was injured, but BD came back, thus cutting into Gordon's playing time. Russell Westbrook stepped up when Kevin Durant was injured, but KD came back, thus cutting into Russ' field goal opportunities.

Had BD and KD been out for the rest of the year like Al Jeff, this wouldn't even be an argument. Gordon and Westbrook would be indisputable 4 & 5.

Gordon can shoot pretty well.
He can't do anything else.

Love can score inside AND defend inside, while being one of the best rebounders in the game already.
How the hell can anyone justify Gordon being ahead of Love with an objective analysis?

I'd put Westbrook about even with Love, but both ahead of Gordon (and Mayo).

cwilson21
04-23-2009, 08:46 PM
Completely agree with Love. Shouldn't have won it but deserved better recognition. Absolute rebounding machine.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 08:51 PM
Eric Gordon stepped up when Baron Davis was injured, but BD came back, thus cutting into Gordon's playing time. Russell Westbrook stepped up when Kevin Durant was injured, but KD came back, thus cutting into Russ' field goal opportunities.

Had BD and KD been out for the rest of the year like Al Jeff, this wouldn't even be an argument. Gordon and Westbrook would be indisputable 4 & 5.

really? Love's ppg went up a bit, but his rebounds and PER never moved. He only got 5 more mpg when Al went out. Minny was still in experimental stage at times.

MagicBucsSox
04-23-2009, 08:51 PM
ok. Minnesota has this young big man named Al Jefferson. Not sure if you have heard of him.

ya but wasnt he out most the year? nonetheless 11pts on the wolves as the "second" opyion(happy) sucks just as much

FaceDown91
04-23-2009, 08:52 PM
Rose
Mayo
Lopez
Westbrook
Gordon
Love

There are the 5 ahead of him. I can buy Rose easy, and I can live with Lopez. The rest, not so much

im guessing ur a t-wolves fan. let me just say as probley many other ppl have said to u...t-wolves are dumb to trade mayo. Just saying lol.

MagicBucsSox
04-23-2009, 08:53 PM
Completely agree with Love. Shouldn't have won it but deserved better recognition. Absolute rebounding machine.

like the guy avg 9 boards, how is that a machine?
so does lamar odom in fact they have similar stats. nuff said

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 08:56 PM
The voters got it right. It was a good draft class this season and all five of those guys deserved to be ahead of him. So what he had more double-doubles than anybody else? A big part of those numbers came from Al Jefferson's injury. If Al Jeff doesn't go down, Love doesn't get nearly as many double-doubles IMO.

he got enough double doubles, in 25 mpg, to beat out Dirk, Scola, Beidrins, KG, Camby, Marion, Camby, Wade, Boozer, Horford, Aldridge, Kidd, Odom, Amare, Bynum, Oden, and a number of others. He ran away with the double double and rebounding rookie titles. Nobody even threatened him. As a starter, he went for 15.2 ppg as well. Sorry, I am all about Rose winning it, but the only other guy I will listen to in the argument for ROY is Lopez.

WSU Tony
04-23-2009, 08:57 PM
like the guy avg 9 boards, how is that a machine?
so does lamar odom in fact they have similar stats. nuff said

Should I look up scrubs who put up similar numbers to Gordon? Nah, it's not worth my time!

Well, if you throw out all numbers and objectivity then yes, Gordon is far superior to Love.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 09:00 PM
like the guy avg 9 boards, how is that a machine?
so does lamar odom in fact they have similar stats. nuff said

Odom doesn't rebound at the rate Love does. Check the mpg, and % of available rebounds grabbed while on the floor. Not even close. Odom has not improved since his first year in the NBA. I would expect Love to have similar scoring numbers, way more rebounds, but not the assists Odom has career wise.

VCaintdead17
04-23-2009, 09:21 PM
Completely understandable. He should of finished in the top 3. He had a terrific rookie season and does not get enough respect.

JayAllDay
04-23-2009, 09:37 PM
Maybe because I'm down south and/or maybe I didn't watch enough NBAtv or ESPN, but I don't remember a single moment of Kevin Love being featured on anything except when he made that video to make a case for ROY.
His numbers are indeed impressive enough to have commanded more votes, but he definitely didn't get enough exposure to make a bigger impression over the players who got more votes than him.

However
In all honesty, I don't find his numbers that amazing. His offensive board numbers are AWESOME, but I think he could have score more points and grabbed a bit more rebounds when playing for a really bad 'Wolves team. His numbers remind me of Othella Harrington's stint with Vancouver.
Check it out:
Harrington's 2 seasons with Vancouver
1999–00 Vancouver 82 82 32.6 .506 .000 .792 6.9 1.2 .4 .7 13.1
2000–01 Vancouver 44 40 28.8 .466 .000 .779 6.6 .8 .4 .6 10.9
Kevin Love 08-09 season
2008–09 Minnesota 71 28 25.1 .462 .125 .790 8.9 1.1 0.4 0.6 10.8

Numbers are painfully similar except for minutes and rebounds which Love has an edge on. I'm not saying that Kevin Love is gonna be like Othella Harrington. Those were Harrington's BEST years, and Love just finished his rookie campaign. However Othella Harrington's best years weren't that noteworthy and nor is Love's rookie campaign.

oldenpolynice
04-23-2009, 09:38 PM
As said earlier, when Al went down, Love went for 16/10. When did your boy, gordon, put up anywhere CLOSE to those numbers? How about when Davis went down?

Check Gordon's splits from January and February and note the three-point and free throw percentages. Then take into consideration his 41-point game against OKC. This guy is a bona fide scoring threat who very few weaknesses. Love has a HUGE weakness. He can't guard anyone on the fast break and lacks interior presence on defense.

Love is a great rebounder, but he is also very flawed. I'd take Gordon in a heartbeat.

WSU Tony
04-23-2009, 10:06 PM
Check Gordon's splits from January and February and note the three-point and free throw percentages. Then take into consideration his 41-point game against OKC. This guy is a bona fide scoring threat who very few weaknesses. Love has a HUGE weakness. He can't guard anyone on the fast break and lacks interior presence on defense.

Love is a great rebounder, but he is also very flawed. I'd take Gordon in a heartbeat.

Give me some full season stats and your argument may carry some more weight. Until then everything is simply an opinion.

29$JerZ
04-23-2009, 10:09 PM
Derrick
O.J
Brook
Rudy
Kevin

that's what should have been the order imo.

maverick1155
04-23-2009, 10:21 PM
i dont think his that much better than the 4 guys above him

yoloboy87
04-23-2009, 10:27 PM
his team sucked. stop crying.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 10:33 PM
his team sucked. stop crying.
so the teams of the other top rooks got any better?? Chicago was the Portland 3 years ago, they underachieved horribly last season, then defied all odds, and got the #1 pick. Rose hardly carried them to the playoffs. Beasley was drafted by a team that basically had a healthy Wade unlike last year. Memphis, NJ, OKC, and the Clips got no better, at least. So judging on team success is pathetic. If that is the case, Beasley is the runaway winner. Point is, Love just put together one of the top rebounding seasons in history for a rookie, let alone a 20 year old. And he chips in 11.2 ppg with the ability to get to the line, and throw an outlet pass not seen since Unseld. He will be a 18-12 player for a number of seasons.

I Am Awesome-O
04-23-2009, 10:42 PM
so the teams of the other top rooks got any better?? Chicago was the Portland 3 years ago, they underachieved horribly last season, then defied all odds, and got the #1 pick. Rose hardly carried them to the playoffs. Beasley was drafted by a team that basically had a healthy Wade unlike last year. Memphis, NJ, OKC, and the Clips got no better, at least. So judging on team success is pathetic. If that is the case, Beasley is the runaway winner. Point is, Love just put together one of the top rebounding seasons in history for a rookie, let alone a 20 year old. And he chips in 11.2 ppg with the ability to get to the line, and throw an outlet pass not seen since Unseld. He will be a 18-12 player for a number of seasons.

If McHale didn't make that trade on draft night, you wouldn't be all over Love like this; you would be hyping O.J. Mayo.

luckynumber_752
04-23-2009, 10:47 PM
The only problem with talking about how Min. went 16/10 with Love in for Al J. is that Al is horrible. That's right. Horrible. He's the modern day Z-BO. He's exactly for Min. what Zach Randolf was for Por. He slows down the offense horribly and plays little to no defense. He's the rare 20 and 10 guy that hurts your team. As for Love... He did deserve more votes. And how in the **** is the title of the thread misleading or rigged? The thread didn't say, "Love thought he should have won ROY". I don't c y everybody thinks the title was ****ed up.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 10:55 PM
If McHale didn't make that trade on draft night, you wouldn't be all over Love like this; you would be hyping O.J. Mayo.

nope, sorry. I was not a Mayo fan last year, when he was in college. I never get excited about the Wolves draft day trades, but I ended up being very happy about this one.

Hawkeye15
04-23-2009, 10:58 PM
The only problem with talking about how Min. went 16/10 with Love in for Al J. is that Al is horrible. That's right. Horrible. He's the modern day Z-BO. He's exactly for Min. what Zach Randolf was for Por. He slows down the offense horribly and plays little to no defense. He's the rare 20 and 10 guy that hurts your team. As for Love... He did deserve more votes. And how in the **** is the title of the thread misleading or rigged? The thread didn't say, "Love thought he should have won ROY". I don't c y everybody thinks the title was ****ed up.
Ink the moderator changed the title. It actually was exactly what you just stated.
And as for Al Jefferson, he is the best low post scorer in the NBA. He is a far better player than Zach Randolph has ever been, sorry, plus AJ gets paid about 65% of Z Bo.

WSU Tony
04-23-2009, 11:08 PM
The only problem with talking about how Min. went 16/10 with Love in for Al J. is that Al is horrible. That's right. Horrible. He's the modern day Z-BO. He's exactly for Min. what Zach Randolf was for Por. He slows down the offense horribly and plays little to no defense. He's the rare 20 and 10 guy that hurts your team. As for Love... He did deserve more votes. And how in the **** is the title of the thread misleading or rigged? The thread didn't say, "Love thought he should have won ROY". I don't c y everybody thinks the title was ****ed up.

Sig'ed.

VCaintdead17
04-23-2009, 11:12 PM
The only problem with talking about how Min. went 16/10 with Love in for Al J. is that Al is horrible. That's right. Horrible. He's the modern day Z-BO. He's exactly for Min. what Zach Randolf was for Por. He slows down the offense horribly and plays little to no defense. He's the rare 20 and 10 guy that hurts your team. As for Love... He did deserve more votes. And how in the **** is the title of the thread misleading or rigged? The thread didn't say, "Love thought he should have won ROY". I don't c y everybody thinks the title was ****ed up.

fail of the century?

IndyRealist
04-23-2009, 11:16 PM
People fall in love with PPG and fail to look at anything else. Rebounding, assists, defense, consistency, leadership, efficiency, etc. all should contribute to things like ROY voting, not just scoring.

Rose
Lopez
Love
Gordon
Mayo
Westbrook

Rudy Fernandez should be in there somewhere too...

theuuord
04-23-2009, 11:45 PM
Check Gordon's splits from January and February and note the three-point and free throw percentages. Then take into consideration his 41-point game against OKC. This guy is a bona fide scoring threat who very few weaknesses. Love has a HUGE weakness. He can't guard anyone on the fast break and lacks interior presence on defense.

Love is a great rebounder, but he is also very flawed. I'd take Gordon in a heartbeat.

lol WHAT? Gordon has ONE strength - shooting. everything else in his game pretty much is a weakness. he can't pass, he can't defend, he can't rebound, he doesn't get steals, he doesn't have great ballhandling - what are you talking about?

Love is a fine defensive presence inside. He's not fast but everybody knew that already. Love has way more strengths than Gordon...lol...

theuuord
04-23-2009, 11:46 PM
nope, sorry. I was not a Mayo fan last year, when he was in college. I never get excited about the Wolves draft day trades, but I ended up being very happy about this one.

I would rather have Love than Mayo personally for this year and imo for their careers. You guys made the right move.

eric1501
04-23-2009, 11:48 PM
People fall in love with PPG and fail to look at anything else. Rebounding, assists, defense, consistency, leadership, efficiency, etc. all should contribute to things like ROY voting, not just scoring.

Rose
Lopez
Love
Gordon
Mayo
Westbrook

Rudy Fernandez should be in there somewhere too...

Well put! You just said everything I would have. Once Love plays the mins OJ Mayo does he will be a 18 and 12 player day in and day out. I hated K-Love in college. But after sitting in the Target Center 20+ times this season he proved every single bad thing I said about him wrong. He simply is "that guy" EVERY SINGLE team needs and wants on a basketball team.

My order goes like this:

Rose
Love
Westbrook
Mayo
Gordon
Rudy
Lopez

eric1501
04-23-2009, 11:49 PM
The only problem with talking about how Min. went 16/10 with Love in for Al J. is that Al is horrible. That's right. Horrible. He's the modern day Z-BO. He's exactly for Min. what Zach Randolf was for Por. He slows down the offense horribly and plays little to no defense. He's the rare 20 and 10 guy that hurts your team. As for Love... He did deserve more votes. And how in the **** is the title of the thread misleading or rigged? The thread didn't say, "Love thought he should have won ROY". I don't c y everybody thinks the title was ****ed up.

That was easily the dumbest post I have seen on PSD. If Big Al is terrible, Good Luck with Gregory Oden:D

boeknows
04-24-2009, 01:14 AM
The voters got it right. It was a good draft class this season and all five of those guys deserved to be ahead of him. So what he had more double-doubles than anybody else? A big part of those numbers came from Al Jefferson's injury. If Al Jeff doesn't go down, Love doesn't get nearly as many double-doubles IMO.

Jefferson got hurt on Feb 8th. Love had 12 double doubles while playing with Jefferson. He had 17 double doubles after Jefferson got hurt. He was getting his double doubles before Jefferson got hurt.

Breatnach
04-24-2009, 04:50 AM
The only problem with talking about how Min. went 16/10 with Love in for Al J. is that Al is horrible. That's right. Horrible. He's the modern day Z-BO. He's exactly for Min. what Zach Randolf was for Por. He slows down the offense horribly and plays little to no defense. He's the rare 20 and 10 guy that hurts your team. As for Love... He did deserve more votes. And how in the **** is the title of the thread misleading or rigged? The thread didn't say, "Love thought he should have won ROY". I don't c y everybody thinks the title was ****ed up.

Wow...

btw, Minny did not go 16 - 10 when Al was out. Those were Love's stats.

SeoulBeatz
04-24-2009, 05:42 AM
he should be pissed but he shouldnt put it all over the media, makes him look like a crybaby.

WSU Tony
04-24-2009, 09:28 AM
he should be pissed but he shouldnt put it all over the media, makes him look like a crybaby.

It's the medias fault. They give all the air time to Rose and Mayo for being "sexy" options while love is banging around night in and night out putting up very good stats. I could be the best lawyer in the world but if you haven't heard of me, how does being an elite lawyer help me?

Sometimes you NEED the press to like you to win some of these awards.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 09:30 AM
he should be pissed but he shouldnt put it all over the media, makes him look like a crybaby.

he made the comment to the St Paul Pioneer Press. ESPN got a hold of it. Not exactly going worldwide with it. I think it stems from him being left off the rookie team, which was a complete snub.

WSU Tony
04-24-2009, 10:01 AM
he made the comment to the St Paul Pioneer Press. ESPN got a hold of it. Not exactly going worldwide with it. I think it stems from him being left off the rookie team, which was a complete snub.

Again, ESPN doesn't give him coverage (which is some what understandable) so NOBODY knows about him. Now he makes a comment which isn't out of line by any means, ESPN gets a hold of it, and they put it all over the media.

Hence the power of the media. They create their own "characters." Many teammates of TO have said he is a good teammate but ESPN won't publish that stuff, they want their character. This happens in every point of life. Whether it is the liberal media talking up Obama (putting down Bush), Sports, or even News, the media skews things the way they want to.

This is the reason so many of the veterans here on PSD despise ESPN.

still1ballin
04-24-2009, 10:25 AM
:bla:

WSU Tony
04-24-2009, 10:36 AM
:bla:

Says a fan of the most hyped team in the NBA the past 10 years!

IBleedPurple
04-24-2009, 11:24 AM
:cry:

He should've been on the all rookie team, but no reason to whine about a lack of votes. It is hard to get recognition when your team rarely shows up to play.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 11:43 AM
:cry:

He should've been on the all rookie team, but no reason to whine about a lack of votes. It is hard to get recognition when your team rarely shows up to play.

well, look at the other rookies. Did they really help their teams in the win column? The Bulls, one year removed from the playoffs with the same roster that was called the next up and coming team 3 years ago horribly underachieved, and then miraculously landed the #1 pick to get Rose. I would not credit more than a couple of those 8 extra wins.
Beasley gets no credit, Wade was back and better than ever on a team that gave up with 15 games to go last year. Lopez produced 0 extra wins. Mayo produced 2 extra wins, with the help of Gasol, Gordon produced 4 more wins, Westbrook produced 3 more wins.
So, outside Rose, all the leaders had crap teams. That should not factor into the 1st team all anything

abe_froman
04-24-2009, 02:44 PM
hell i'm disappointed by lack of roy votes for me

Gorgon2k
04-24-2009, 03:11 PM
While this does make him look slightly self centered, for some of you to not recognize what he has done is just ridiculous. There are some absolutely stupid F'n people posting in here. and MagicBucsSox, if common sense were a person, he would belittle you on a daily basis.

MrBloop
04-24-2009, 03:33 PM
Love deserved to be third in the voting.

Rose
Lopez
Love

I guess you chose to...hold the mayo?;)

Bad move.

MrBloop
04-24-2009, 03:56 PM
well, look at the other rookies. Did they really help their teams in the win column? The Bulls, one year removed from the playoffs with the same roster that was called the next up and coming team 3 years ago horribly underachieved, and then miraculously landed the #1 pick to get Rose. I would not credit more than a couple of those 8 extra wins.
Beasley gets no credit, Wade was back and better than ever on a team that gave up with 15 games to go last year. Lopez produced 0 extra wins. Mayo produced 2 extra wins, with the help of Gasol, Gordon produced 4 more wins, Westbrook produced 3 more wins.
So, outside Rose, all the leaders had crap teams. That should not factor into the 1st team all anything

All the rookies you mentioned, I'd take over an unathletic, undersized center with a (high basketball IQ...which basically means, he's a white dude with no hops who can pass:rolleyes:) Sure he's good, he was a lotto pick, but look at the depth chart on Wolves, how was he NOT gonna put up decent big man numbers on that team?

He's gonna be a solid pro, but you guys need to fall back with all the Kevin "LOVE" going on in here. Lets see if he can put together " 09' David Lee type year'' atleast, b4 you people crown him the "White Bob Lanier"...which by the sound of things in here, might happen b4 this years draft.

Also there are so many variables in the game of basketball, its hard to equate wins and losses, just by the addition of one said player. That logic is flawed, especially with roster turnovers and trades that go on.

ddaughtry
04-24-2009, 04:04 PM
Worrying about Rookie/Sophomore game snubs and ROY votes is not real good for someone playing for the Minnesota Timberwolves. He should probably should be worried about what he can do to help improve his team. All-Star games and being considered for accolades will come if he does that. With that being said, he makes a valid argument.

MickeyMgl
04-24-2009, 04:05 PM
Apr 23, 2009 4:44 PM EST
Timberwolves rookie forward Kevin Love made his displeasure with the Rookie of the Year voting public on Wednesday night.

Love didn't have a problem with Chicago's Derrick Rose winning the award, but he didn't feel as though there were five rookies better than him this past season.

"Pardon my French, but it's the second time I've gotten screwed," Love told the Pioneer Press. "I definitely thought I would finish higher, but after the rookie-sophomore snub, I guess anything can happen."

He's right. There weren't five rookies better than Kevin Love, and there sure as heck weren't twelve.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 04:06 PM
All the rookies you mentioned, I'd take over an unathletic, undersized center with a (high basketball IQ...which basically means, he's a white dude with no hops who can pass:rolleyes:) Sure he's good, he was a lotto pick, but look at the depth chart on Wolves, how was he NOT gonna put up decent big man numbers on that team?

He's gonna be a solid pro, but you guys need to fall back with all the Kevin "LOVE" going on in here. Lets see if he can put together " 09' David Lee type year'' atleast, b4 you people crown him the "White Bob Lanier"...which by the sound of things in here, might happen b4 this years draft.

Also there are so many variables in the game of basketball, its hard to equate wins and losses, just by the addition of one said player. That logic is flawed, especially with roster turnovers and trades that go on.


The bottom part of you're statment is very true, and was a point I was trying to make.
As for Love, he has been called white and slow since he was a kid, and that would hold him back. What does he do about it? Wins National High School Player of the Year over Rose, Beasley, Gordon, etc. Goes to the PAC 10, wins Freshman and Player of the Year in the PAC 10, over Mayo, Lopez, Westbrook, etc. Goes to the NBA, and has the 4th best rebounding rate season EVER for a rookie, is behind only 2 players in the NBA in offensive rebounds, has more double doubles than Dirk, KG, Wade, Beidrins, Camby, Boozer, Horford, Josh Smith, Aldridge, Kidd, Odom (do I need to continue??), all with a coach in Wittman who didn't play him the first 30 games more than a few minutes basically. Being white and slow has never stopped him before. Nobody is saying he will be Dwight Howard. But he has far more upside than most will give him credit for. Just cause someone can jump high and look cool dunking doesn't mean squat. How is that working out for Gerald Green?

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 04:09 PM
Worrying about Rookie/Sophomore game snubs and ROY votes is not real good for someone playing for the Minnesota Timberwolves. He should probably should be worried about what he can do to help improve his team. All-Star games and being considered for accolades will come if he does that. With that being said, he makes a valid argument.

and the other rookies all propelled thier teams?? Really? Chicago, a playoff team 2 years ago with their current roster basically (before the trade), had no business jumping 12 teams to get Rose, so Rose doesn't exactly deserve Bird, LeBron, or Duncan credit here. The rest played for teams that didn't improve either. At all

MrBloop
04-24-2009, 04:14 PM
Says a fan of the most hyped team in the NBA the past 10 years!

I'm a Knick fan (yes we STILL have room to talk, especially in T-wolve thread) and I don't know how you can call a team with Kobe Bryant, the most over-hyped team in the league in the past 10 years? I don't think I need to tell you how many chips they had in the last 10 years, I'm sure your well aware.

Maybe your still sour about that conference finals L they gave you, but seriously, I had to watch Kevin Garnett and his suspect role players (aside from the 03' team) grace my television twice a week on national television each year, only to get bounced in the first round come april. And why??? so every1 can watch him clap baby powder, say "MTFR" 20 times and lose?

Talk about over hyped.

luckynumber_752
04-24-2009, 04:22 PM
OK. My post WAS stupid. I was drunk. I read the whole 16/10 thing thinking people were talkin bout Min, cause I don't follow them. My bad. From now on I'll post while I'm sober and not talk about **** I don't know about.... Something I tend to do while intoxicated. lol.

CityofTreez
04-24-2009, 04:24 PM
Can you say Brook Lopez! Sorry Love, but you get no Love and you don't deserve any!


Michael Beasley (1)
Brook Lopez (2)
Jason Thompson (3)
Kevin Love (4)

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 04:35 PM
Can you say Brook Lopez! Sorry Love, but you get no Love and you don't deserve any!


Michael Beasley (1)
Brook Lopez (2)
Jason Thompson (3)
Kevin Love (4)

nice rankings dude.

MrBloop
04-24-2009, 04:44 PM
The bottom part of you're statment is very true, and was a point I was trying to make.
As for Love, he has been called white and slow since he was a kid, and that would hold him back. What does he do about it? Wins National High School Player of the Year over Rose, Beasley, Gordon, etc. Goes to the PAC 10, wins Freshman and Player of the Year in the PAC 10, over Mayo, Lopez, Westbrook, etc. Goes to the NBA, and has the 4th best rebounding rate season EVER for a rookie, is behind only 2 players in the NBA in offensive rebounds, has more double doubles than Dirk, KG, Wade, Beidrins, Camby, Boozer, Horford, Josh Smith, Aldridge, Kidd, Odom (do I need to continue??), all with a coach in Wittman who didn't play him the first 30 games more than a few minutes basically. Being white and slow has never stopped him before. Nobody is saying he will be Dwight Howard. But he has far more upside than most will give him credit for. Just cause someone can jump high and look cool dunking doesn't mean squat. How is that working out for Gerald Green?

Look, he's not the first slow white dude to do his thing in college or the NBA, and he won't be the last, if he continues to improve. Him being unathletic and undersized (compared to todays players) is the reason I wouldn't take him over Rose, Mayo, Beasley, Lopez, and Westbrook. His rebounding rate, is impressive, not that his roster spot or minutes were in danger at all. Him not playing the first 30 games was nothing more than the "rookie treatment" Obviously board work is his strength, with offensive rebounding being his strong suit, but alot of guys can rebound the ball, what else can bring to the table is the key, can he be a difference maker on both ends of the floor, can he defend etc.

Also, half of the guys you mentioned on your double double list missed big portions of the season...Boozer, Horford, Camby, Biedrins...while the other guys you mentioned had to juggle the scoring loads for their teams on top of grabbing rebounds.

Again, him being unathletic, will hurt him in the long run, as the NBA slowly fazes out slow footed big men, but he's pretty skilled. And all things considered, he should benefit the same way David Lee does from being White, you stand out in the NBA when you do well, thats a fact. In a city like Minnesota, who love them some White people, he should flourish as long as they keep getting better each year.

My thing with him is, why is he worrying about rookie accolades??? how petty is that...you barely played the fist half, you were asked to go out, and play solid post defense and rebound...basically no plays were run for him and he wants to complain about shine? If a guy like Al Jefferson gets snubbed after the numbers he put up, why should a rookie be surprised about anything that happens to him vote wise?

Green is a bum.

Wisdom Listens
04-24-2009, 04:51 PM
Worrying about Rookie/Sophomore game snubs and ROY votes is not real good for someone playing for the Minnesota Timberwolves. He should probably should be worried about what he can do to help improve his team.

That is first and foremost his prerogative.

WSU Tony
04-24-2009, 04:54 PM
All the rookies you mentioned, I'd take over an unathletic, undersized center with a (high basketball IQ...which basically means, he's a white dude with no hops who can pass:rolleyes:) Sure he's good, he was a lotto pick, but look at the depth chart on Wolves, how was he NOT gonna put up decent big man numbers on that team?

He's gonna be a solid pro, but you guys need to fall back with all the Kevin "LOVE" going on in here. Lets see if he can put together " 09' David Lee type year'' atleast, b4 you people crown him the "White Bob Lanier"...which by the sound of things in here, might happen b4 this years draft.

Also there are so many variables in the game of basketball, its hard to equate wins and losses, just by the addition of one said player. That logic is flawed, especially with roster turnovers and trades that go on.

Love played a majority of his minutes as a PF, not a C. How is one supposed to listen to your argument and say "yes, he makes a good point," when you don't even know the position Love plays?


I'm a Knick fan (yes we STILL have room to talk, especially in T-wolve thread) and I don't know how you can call a team with Kobe Bryant, the most over-hyped team in the league in the past 10 years? I don't think I need to tell you how many chips they had in the last 10 years, I'm sure your well aware.

Maybe your still sour about that conference finals L they gave you, but seriously, I had to watch Kevin Garnett and his suspect role players (aside from the 03' team) grace my television twice a week on national television each year, only to get bounced in the first round come april. And why??? so every1 can watch him clap baby powder, say "MTFR" 20 times and lose?

Talk about over hyped.

You said yourself it was KG with role players, how the F were they over hyped? The Wolves never have expectations, they can't be over hyped.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 04:55 PM
Look, he's not the first slow white dude to do his thing in college or the NBA, and he won't be the last, if he continues to improve. Him being unathletic and undersized (compared to todays players) is the reason I wouldn't take him over Rose, Mayo, Beasley, Lopez, and Westbrook. His rebounding rate, is impressive, not that his roster spot or minutes were in danger at all. Him not playing the first 30 games was nothing more than the "rookie treatment" Obviously board work is his strength, with offensive rebounding being his strong suit, but alot of guys can rebound the ball, what else can bring to the table is the key, can he be a difference maker on both ends of the floor, can he defend etc.

Also, half of the guys you mentioned on your double double list missed big portions of the season...Boozer, Horford, Camby, Biedrins...while the other guys you mentioned had to juggle the scoring loads for their teams on top of grabbing rebounds.

Again, him being unathletic, will hurt him in the long run, as the NBA slowly fazes out slow footed big men, but he's pretty skilled. And all things considered, he should benefit the same way David Lee does from being White, you stand out in the NBA when you do well, thats a fact. In a city like Minnesota, who love them some White people, he should flourish as long as they keep getting better each year.

My thing with him is, why is he worrying about rookie accolades??? how petty is that...you barely played the fist half, you were asked to go out, and play solid post defense and rebound...basically no plays were run for him and he wants to complain about shine? If a guy like Al Jefferson gets snubbed after the numbers he put up, why should a rookie be surprised about anything that happens to him vote wise?

Green is a bum.

points taken. I may not agree on all the specifics, but you are right on in some of what you said. And I don't think he thought it would get out, it was the local newspaper asking him. I highly doubt he says anything to ESPN for instance. Just a hometown paper

Faneik
04-24-2009, 04:57 PM
In my book, Love was #4 in the rookie class.

1. Rose
2. Lopez
3. Mayo
4. Love
5. Westbrook

Love lacks mobility, speed, in one word: athleticism.
But has range, good fundamentals, basketball IQ, court vision, great rebounding skills.

It would be difficult for him to be an All-Star, see Big Al's case...

WSU Tony
04-24-2009, 04:57 PM
In a city like Minnesota, who love them some White people, he should flourish as long as they keep getting better each year.

Are you serious? Why would you even consider saying something like that?

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 04:57 PM
I'm a Knick fan (yes we STILL have room to talk, especially in T-wolve thread) and I don't know how you can call a team with Kobe Bryant, the most over-hyped team in the league in the past 10 years? I don't think I need to tell you how many chips they had in the last 10 years, I'm sure your well aware.

Maybe your still sour about that conference finals L they gave you, but seriously, I had to watch Kevin Garnett and his suspect role players (aside from the 03' team) grace my television twice a week on national television each year, only to get bounced in the first round come april. And why??? so every1 can watch him clap baby powder, say "MTFR" 20 times and lose?

Talk about over hyped.

Outside 2004, the Wolves were never the favorites to win a playoff series, and they never even got close to getting the 25 nationally televised games that LA, Sac, or the other teams back then did.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 04:59 PM
This is not about who you would take going forward, we all know ESPN, and a general fan who doesn't understand basketball, will avoid taking the slow white guy. This is about his accomplishments this year, and outside Rose, nobody was more efficient.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 05:01 PM
Look, he's not the first slow white dude to do his thing in college or the NBA, and he won't be the last, if he continues to improve. Him being unathletic and undersized (compared to todays players) is the reason I wouldn't take him over Rose, Mayo, Beasley, Lopez, and Westbrook. His rebounding rate, is impressive, not that his roster spot or minutes were in danger at all. Him not playing the first 30 games was nothing more than the "rookie treatment" Obviously board work is his strength, with offensive rebounding being his strong suit, but alot of guys can rebound the ball, what else can bring to the table is the key, can he be a difference maker on both ends of the floor, can he defend etc.

Also, half of the guys you mentioned on your double double list missed big portions of the season...Boozer, Horford, Camby, Biedrins...while the other guys you mentioned had to juggle the scoring loads for their teams on top of grabbing rebounds.

Again, him being unathletic, will hurt him in the long run, as the NBA slowly fazes out slow footed big men, but he's pretty skilled. And all things considered, he should benefit the same way David Lee does from being White, you stand out in the NBA when you do well, thats a fact. In a city like Minnesota, who love them some White people, he should flourish as long as they keep getting better each year.

My thing with him is, why is he worrying about rookie accolades??? how petty is that...you barely played the fist half, you were asked to go out, and play solid post defense and rebound...basically no plays were run for him and he wants to complain about shine? If a guy like Al Jefferson gets snubbed after the numbers he put up, why should a rookie be surprised about anything that happens to him vote wise?

Green is a bum.


these are in their prime players getting 35+ mpg. If you like, I can narrow it down for you. The point is, a 20 year old, slow, white dude, outperformed many all stars in double doubles. That was my point. And if you just want to isolate him to other rookies, the news gets worse for his competition.

Nirvanaskurdt
04-24-2009, 05:42 PM
Whoa. This guy is way to into himself what a loser. I think its just tough love from the league saying 'You suck bro but with work you'll get better.' but as of now hes mediocre. :laugh2:

CityofTreez
04-24-2009, 05:56 PM
nice rankings dude.


Those are the rookie PF's that perfromed better than him, IMO. Not the actual candidates for Rookie of the year.

Wisdom Listens
04-24-2009, 05:59 PM
Whoa. This guy is way to into himself what a loser. I think its just tough love from the league saying 'You suck bro but with work you'll get better.' but as of now hes mediocre. :laugh2:

Kevin Love is far from sucking.

CityofTreez
04-24-2009, 06:05 PM
The bottom part of you're statment is very true, and was a point I was trying to make.
As for Love, he has been called white and slow since he was a kid, and that would hold him back. What does he do about it? Wins National High School Player of the Year over Rose, Beasley, Gordon, etc. Goes to the PAC 10, wins Freshman and Player of the Year in the PAC 10, over Mayo, Lopez, Westbrook, etc. Goes to the NBA, and has the 4th best rebounding rate season EVER for a rookie, is behind only 2 players in the NBA in offensive rebounds, has more double doubles than Dirk, KG, Wade, Beidrins, Camby, Boozer, Horford, Josh Smith, Aldridge, Kidd, Odom (do I need to continue??), all with a coach in Wittman who didn't play him the first 30 games more than a few minutes basically. Being white and slow has never stopped him before. Nobody is saying he will be Dwight Howard. But he has far more upside than most will give him credit for. Just cause someone can jump high and look cool dunking doesn't mean squat. How is that working out for Gerald Green?

With Al jefferson's injury, Kevin Love could have brought up those votes for ROY award, but other guys outperformed him w/ better records (Beasley) and team chemistry (Brook Lopez) had a lot to do w/ New Jersey having a down low presence. He was better than Kevin Love in the Pac-10, but every1 just focued on kevin Love and the UCLA Bruins. Of course kevin love shines w/ Collison & Shipp compared to the depleted Stanford Cardinals w/ Lopez brothers.
Plus, all I saw of Kevin Love were those Bill Walton passes down the court for fast-break points, which I really like, but he needed to show more.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 06:24 PM
Those are the rookie PF's that perfromed better than him, IMO. Not the actual candidates for Rookie of the year.

justify it to me. Cause they are not good rankings.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 06:31 PM
With Al jefferson's injury, Kevin Love could have brought up those votes for ROY award, but other guys outperformed him w/ better records (Beasley) and team chemistry (Brook Lopez) had a lot to do w/ New Jersey having a down low presence. He was better than Kevin Love in the Pac-10, but every1 just focued on kevin Love and the UCLA Bruins. Of course kevin love shines w/ Collison & Shipp compared to the depleted Stanford Cardinals w/ Lopez brothers.
Plus, all I saw of Kevin Love were those Bill Walton passes down the court for fast-break points, which I really like, but he needed to show more.

make up you're mind. If its about wins, Love was more valuable than Lopez in college, and Love was a freshman. If its about stats, than Love wins there too. Love's rebounding didn't move an inch basically when Jefferson went down. His ppg went up some, but that is due to the minutes. Beasley had a little help from Wade, and the fact that the Heat were healthy, and didn't throw in the towel with 15 games to go this season. And New Jersey, with Devin Harris, Vince Carter, and the weaker eastern conference, didn't improve a single game, and missed the playoffs. Not sure how that helps Lopez's stock? Look, I would take Rose over Love anyday. YOu could even argue me Lopez, because the Wolves need a true C. BUt nobody else is going to be better than him imo. Mayo and Gordon may score more points, but Love's efficiency is, and always will be, ahead of the curve.

CityofTreez
04-24-2009, 06:51 PM
make up you're mind. If its about wins, Love was more valuable than Lopez in college, and Love was a freshman. If its about stats, than Love wins there too. Love's rebounding didn't move an inch basically when Jefferson went down. His ppg went up some, but that is due to the minutes. Beasley had a little help from Wade, and the fact that the Heat were healthy, and didn't throw in the towel with 15 games to go this season. And New Jersey, with Devin Harris, Vince Carter, and the weaker eastern conference, didn't improve a single game, and missed the playoffs. Not sure how that helps Lopez's stock? Look, I would take Rose over Love anyday. YOu could even argue me Lopez, because the Wolves need a true C. BUt nobody else is going to be better than him imo. Mayo and Gordon may score more points, but Love's efficiency is, and always will be, ahead of the curve.

Brook Lopez had huge games compared to kevin Love's year.
Most points cored by Brook: 30 Kevin: 24
Most Minutes Played: They both calculated 40 minutes
Total Boards Brook:20 Kevin:19
Most FG Attempts: Brook: 20 Love:17
Most Blocks in 1 Game: Brook: 5 Block in 3 Games Love: 4 Blocks

That's my argument, Brook Lopez was a better rookie PF

MrBloop
04-24-2009, 06:53 PM
these are in their prime players getting 35+ mpg. If you like, I can narrow it down for you. The point is, a 20 year old, slow, white dude, outperformed many all stars in double doubles. That was my point. And if you just want to isolate him to other rookies, the news gets worse for his competition.

Your still missing the point, the guys you mentioned had injury plagued seasons, and otherwise would out rebound your boy by the minute. You lost part of the argument when you used them as examples.

Boozer hurt

Camby hurt

Horford hurt

Biedrins hurt on and off all season.

These guys weren't playing their usual minutes, boozer and camby barely played at all.

At pick 5, traded for OJ Mayo, he better do more than grab bounds...his defensive presence needs improvement, one block shot would be nice.

For the record, (and you know this already) his minutes per AVG were low because of his lack of playing time during the early portion of the season, his avg later in the year was around 28-29 mins a game. If anything, his lack of playing time during the year, helped his averages.

Most big men don't play more than 35 min per game anyway.

I think he finished exactly where he needed to be vote wise. Other than grabbing bounds, what else did he do? I mean Reggie Evans could give you his rookie production on the cheap, if you played him 25-26 minutes a game...plus some defense.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 07:01 PM
Brook Lopez had huge games compared to kevin Love's year.
Most points cored by Brook: 30 Kevin: 24
Most Minutes Played: They both calculated 40 minutes
Total Boards Brook:20 Kevin:19
Most FG Attempts: Brook: 20 Love:17
Most Blocks in 1 Game: Brook: 5 Block in 3 Games Love: 4 Blocks

That's my argument, Brook Lopez was a better rookie PF


well, first off, Lopez is a C. But, here we go yet again
Lopez played 5 mpg more, and was a starter on a team that didnt have anyone at his position before the draft, unlike Love's situation
If you want to go by highs, eh, not gonna work
Love had a PER of 18.39. Lopez a PER of 17.94
Love had 29 double doubles. Lopez had 18
Love had 120 more free throw attempts in less minutes, meaning he was all over the glass, and used his body
Love was #3 in the entire NBA in offensive rebounds, in limited minutes.
Love was #4 all time for NBA rookies in rebound rate.

Look, I am not going to say that Love is a better player outright than Lopez, but there is no way you can quantify that Lopez had a better season efficency wise.

MrBloop
04-24-2009, 07:04 PM
make up you're mind. If its about wins, Love was more valuable than Lopez in college, and Love was a freshman. If its about stats, than Love wins there too. Love's rebounding didn't move an inch basically when Jefferson went down. His ppg went up some, but that is due to the minutes. Beasley had a little help from Wade, and the fact that the Heat were healthy, and didn't throw in the towel with 15 games to go this season. And New Jersey, with Devin Harris, Vince Carter, and the weaker eastern conference, didn't improve a single game, and missed the playoffs. Not sure how that helps Lopez's stock? Look, I would take Rose over Love anyday. YOu could even argue me Lopez, because the Wolves need a true C. BUt nobody else is going to be better than him imo. Mayo and Gordon may score more points, but Love's efficiency is, and always will be, ahead of the curve.

Dude, you are really sipping that Kevin love Kool-Aid lol

Nobody in their right mind would build a team around Kevin Love. You know who was really really efficient in their first year? Bryant "Big Country" Reeves. Let me see this dude shoot 50 plus from the field, throw in a few dimes, develop some a polished post moves, and block a damn shot. I respect your opinion, really I do, but mayo and gordon strike me as more impact players than him. Slow footed big men who start in this league, usually play on both ends of the floor, hopefully for you T-Wolve fans, he'll develop into a two way player.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 07:07 PM
Your still missing the point, the guys you mentioned had injury plagued seasons, and otherwise would out rebound your boy by the minute. You lost part of the argument when you used them as examples.

Boozer hurt

Camby hurt

Horford hurt

Biedrins hurt on and off all season.

These guys weren't playing their usual minutes, boozer and camby barely played at all.

At pick 5, traded for OJ Mayo, he better do more than grab bounds...his defensive presence needs improvement, one block shot would be nice.

For the record, (and you know this already) his minutes per AVG were low because of his lack of playing time during the early portion of the season, his avg later in the year was around 28-29 mins a game. If anything, his lack of playing time during the year, helped his averages.

Most big men don't play more than 35 min per game anyway.

I think he finished exactly where he needed to be vote wise. Other than grabbing bounds, what else did he do? I mean Reggie Evans could give you his rookie production on the cheap, if you played him 25-26 minutes a game...plus some defense.


ok, here is a list of players he had more double doubles that didn't miss games.
Scola
Nowitzki
Wade
G Wallace
Nene
Aldridge
Kidd
Lopez
Odom
T Thomas
M Gasol
Durant

Help?

The trade had more to do with pawning off the ridiculous deals of Jaric, Buckner, and Walker, and getting a player we wanted anyways. He gets to the line at a good rate, has an outside jumper, and is the best passing young big man in the NBA. What point am I missing??? He thouroghly dominated some of the statistics against other rookies.
Eh, I am not going to convince you of anything, and vice versa. Point is, you are looking at a guy who will be a 18-12 player.

Wisdom Listens
04-24-2009, 07:08 PM
Dude, you are really sipping that Kevin love Kool-Aid lol

Nobody in their right mind would build a team around Kevin Love. You know who was really really efficient in their first year? Bryant "Big Country" Reeves. Let me see this dude shoot 50 plus from the field, throw in a few dimes, develop some a polished post moves, and block a damn shot. I respect your opinion, really I do, but mayo and gordon strike me as more impact players than him. Slow footed big men who start in this league, usually play on both ends of the floor, hopefully for you T-Wolve fans, he'll develop into a two way player.

It all depends on your definition of impact. Love does things that don't show up on the stat sheet, and he is only getting better.

MrBloop
04-24-2009, 07:08 PM
Love played a majority of his minutes as a PF, not a C. How is one supposed to listen to your argument and say "yes, he makes a good point," when you don't even know the position Love plays?



You said yourself it was KG with role players, how the F were they over hyped? The Wolves never have expectations, they can't be over hyped.

He's listed as PF/C bite me with the petty responses kid.

They were overhyped b/c they were the a 8th seed type team on national television every 5 seconds, that was my point...Maybe KG had something to do with overhyped thing, what do you think?

For all the hype he had, how many times did he come up small in the playoffs until 03'? and last year?

Don't call the lakers overhyped when your team was a glorified 8th seed every fkn year.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 07:09 PM
he deserved to be #3 in the voting, if not #2.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 07:10 PM
He's listed as PF/C bite me with the petty responses kid.

which shows you didn't watch him play. So you have zero idea of what you are talking about. If you are going to speak about someone, stats help a little to justify obvious arguments, but they don't tell the whole story.

WSU Tony
04-24-2009, 07:31 PM
He's listed as PF/C bite me with the petty responses kid.

They were overhyped b/c they were the a 8th seed type team on national television every 5 seconds, that was my point...Maybe KG had something to do with overhyped thing, what do you think?

For all the hype he had, how many times did he come up small in the playoffs until 03'? and last year?

Don't call the lakers overhyped when your team was a glorified 8th seed every fkn year.

How is an 8th seed over hyped? They are the UNDERDOG in the game! This isn't a hard concept. The lakers have been praised every day on ESPN for the past 7 years and they have nothing more than the Wolves to show for it! The lakers are over hyped.


Brook Lopez had huge games compared to kevin Love's year.
Most points cored by Brook: 30 Kevin: 24
Most Minutes Played: They both calculated 40 minutes
Total Boards Brook:20 Kevin:19
Most FG Attempts: Brook: 20 Love:17
Most Blocks in 1 Game: Brook: 5 Block in 3 Games Love: 4 Blocks

That's my argument, Brook Lopez was a better rookie PF

Your argument is based on best single game performance? I don't have to tell you that's silly, do I?:p


Dude, you are really sipping that Kevin love Kool-Aid lol

Nobody in their right mind would build a team around Kevin Love. You know who was really really efficient in their first year? Bryant "Big Country" Reeves. Let me see this dude shoot 50 plus from the field, throw in a few dimes, develop some a polished post moves, and block a damn shot. I respect your opinion, really I do, but mayo and gordon strike me as more impact players than him. Slow footed big men who start in this league, usually play on both ends of the floor, hopefully for you T-Wolve fans, he'll develop into a two way player.

Who said this team was being built around Love? If your argument was developed to show that Lopez is a guy to build a franchise around, your wrong.

Korman12
04-24-2009, 07:38 PM
Really like Kevin Love, that being said I'd still have him 5th behind Rose, Westbrook, Mayo, and Lopez.

That being said he still doesn't get the credit he deserves, both during the All-Star break and regular season. He'll be a fine player, those 5 just had more impactful seasons.

He shouldn't stress over things like this.

ryguy2k7
04-24-2009, 07:40 PM
Wow.

That was some fun reading. I can't believe the comment about the "City of Minnesota" which makes absolutely no sense. We love our white people? Tying that into trading for Kevin Love is absolutely absurd.

Going on...

I agree that Kevin Love was being a little outspoken and annoying, but he does have VALID points. He was better than Gordon for SURE! That's just hilarious how a LAC fan can even try to make up lies about how Gordon deserves more votes than K Love. HA!

MN sucks now, but I can't believe the lack of respect for us as a franchise. It's annoying.

My rankings for Rooks:

Rose
Mayo
Love
Lopez
Westbrook

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 07:42 PM
Dude, you are really sipping that Kevin love Kool-Aid lol

Nobody in their right mind would build a team around Kevin Love. You know who was really really efficient in their first year? Bryant "Big Country" Reeves. Let me see this dude shoot 50 plus from the field, throw in a few dimes, develop some a polished post moves, and block a damn shot. I respect your opinion, really I do, but mayo and gordon strike me as more impact players than him. Slow footed big men who start in this league, usually play on both ends of the floor, hopefully for you T-Wolve fans, he'll develop into a two way player.

This isn't about what you see in these kid's futures. Its about what kind of rookie season they had. And as far as a 2 way player, Gordon and Mayo did nothing defensively. Neither did any rookie. Neither did Durant last year.
And we have a player named Al Jefferson, not sure if you have heard of him, gets around 23/11, that we plan on building around. Love is just a piece of the puzzle hopefully, as would have been anyone in this draft outside Rose.

Hawkeye15
04-24-2009, 07:45 PM
Really like Kevin Love, that being said I'd still have him 5th behind Rose, Westbrook, Mayo, and Lopez.

That being said he still doesn't get the credit he deserves, both during the All-Star break and regular season. He'll be a fine player, those 5 just had more impactful seasons.

He shouldn't stress over things like this.

not sure what impact they had though. None of them outside Chicago won more games really. And Chicago leapfrogged 12 teams, had no business in the top 3 anyways, and had the same roster that was 1 year removed from the playoffs. So its not like Rose turned them from perrenial crap to playoffs. Our only point is, Love dominated and ran away with the power numbers for rookies. He should get votes, and be 1st team all NBA rookie. Period.

Korman12
04-24-2009, 07:48 PM
He should get votes, and be 1st team all NBA rookie. Period.

Agreed.

mtg23us
04-24-2009, 09:11 PM
Anyone that hates on K. Love does not know anything about basketball. He is still young and has alot to work on but give the kid some credit. There is little something called PER (player efficancy rating) and Love was in the top two for rookies most of the season. His game can't just be about scoring. While he is not a "franchise player" and may never be, he is a starter in the NBA with the tallent and "IQ" to possibly be a future All-Star. Oh and by the way only D. Howard had more offensive boards per 48min then Love. Why don't you ask the other players what they think of him, Dirk calledhim a "beast" and both Shaq and T. Duncan (two of the best bigs in the history of the game) have complimented his game after playing him.

As far as his comments, all he said was that he thought he should be higher and that he will work harder to get the respect he deserves.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 12:45 AM
Are you serious? Why would you even consider saying something like that?


1)I am absolutely serious...its not a racist thing to say at all, its real talk dude.

2)Because its true. Are there huge black populations in Minnesota? not really.

You honestly think the nearly all white crowd in the target center doesn't love having a White marquis player on their team? I remember how they fell in love with Wally and Googs.

Look at Atlanta, huge black poupulation, you don't think they identify with having black stars like Joe Johnson and Josh Smith playing well for them?

You don't think Boston fans love when Brian Scalabrini comes in and lights it up during mop up duty. Give me a break dude, I know my Knick fans, I'm one of them, and the White garden faithful love David Lee to pieces.

Its human nature to identify with your own to an extent, if anything, last years election should have hammered that one home for you...I don't think many Blacks voted for McCain, do you? In whats become a predominantly black professional sport, its not wrong for some white fans to be proud that his team has one of the few impact White players in the league. In todays game, you almost have to be a impact White player to make a NBA team and get minutes.

Stop living in an imaginary P.C. world, please.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 01:24 AM
ok, here is a list of players he had more double doubles that didn't miss games.
Scola
Nowitzki
Wade
G Wallace
Nene
Aldridge
Kidd
Lopez
Odom
T Thomas
M Gasol
Durant

Help?

The trade had more to do with pawning off the ridiculous deals of Jaric, Buckner, and Walker, and getting a player we wanted anyways. He gets to the line at a good rate, has an outside jumper, and is the best passing young big man in the NBA. What point am I missing??? He thouroghly dominated some of the statistics against other rookies.
Eh, I am not going to convince you of anything, and vice versa. Point is, you are looking at a guy who will be a 18-12 player.

I love how you sprinkled in guards and forwards that don't get double digit rebounds on a regular basis on to your list lol...that was cute. Wallace, Ty Thomas, Durant, Wade, Kidd (not old Kidd, sorry)

My point about the draft day trade, was they passed up on a can't miss scoring threat on a team that desperately needed a scoring guard...thankfully for them and you Randy Foye stepped it up and filled that void.

Calling a guy who avg'd 1 assist the best passing young big in the league is high praise...But I guess those outlet passes have you drooling.

18 and 12 are serious numbers, and thats a serious claim to think he can achieve that. We'll see, but I'll take the under on that one and say he doesn't become an 18 and 12 guy. I see him projecting out as a solid big man in the league, because I don't see him scoring night in and night out. He already has trouble getting post moves off on bigger more athletic guys, and gets blocked alot. Unless he develops some Mchale moves and really really polishes that set shot of his, 18 and 12 are fantasy land numbers.

I would much rather have a guy like Anthony Randolph than Kevin Love personally, his ceiling is much higher. He has a real legit chance at 18 and 12 when he hits his prime.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 01:37 AM
This isn't about what you see in these kid's futures. Its about what kind of rookie season they had. And as far as a 2 way player, Gordon and Mayo did nothing defensively. Neither did any rookie. Neither did Durant last year.
And we have a player named Al Jefferson, not sure if you have heard of him, gets around 23/11, that we plan on building around. Love is just a piece of the puzzle hopefully, as would have been anyone in this draft outside Rose.

Lopez was a two way player for the record, and so was Westbrook, Mayo avg'd a steal a game and he and Gordon play the passing lanes well.

Love avg'd just over a half a block, not that he fits the mold of a shot blocker, his lack of D hurts his stock.

Who's Al Jefferson? thanx for telling me bout him, he sure sounds good:rolleyes:

I'm well aware he's your centerpiece, but as a 5th overall pick who could have slipped much higher in any other draft, he's got alot to prove. His rookie year was good, just not as good as your makin it out to be honestly. Thats really been my point.

With that being said...I'm really sick of talking about Kevin Love.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 01:54 AM
Wow.

That was some fun reading. I can't believe the comment about the "City of Minnesota" which makes absolutely no sense. We love our white people? Tying that into trading for Kevin Love is absolutely absurd.

Going on...

I agree that Kevin Love was being a little outspoken and annoying, but he does have VALID points. He was better than Gordon for SURE! That's just hilarious how a LAC fan can even try to make up lies about how Gordon deserves more votes than K Love. HA!

MN sucks now, but I can't believe the lack of respect for us as a franchise. It's annoying.

My rankings for Rooks:

Rose
Mayo
Love
Lopez
Westbrook

Lopez clearly outplayed Love from start to finish...you guys are clear homers...its so obvious its hilarious.

And I stand by my statement.

Blacks make up 3.5 percent of the MN population...Minnesota is a very white state, I'm not saying their racist over there, but your delusional if you don't think they love (no pun intended) having Kevin Love, a white guy, starting on there roster...as long as he plays well.

You can say what you want, it the truth.


Oh and for the record (your gonna hate me for this one) Only a white guy (Mchale) would take Kevin Love that early.

There I said it.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 02:24 AM
How is an 8th seed over hyped? They are the UNDERDOG in the game! This isn't a hard concept. The lakers have been praised every day on ESPN for the past 7 years and they have nothing more than the Wolves to show for it! The lakers are over hyped.



Your argument is based on best single game performance? I don't have to tell you that's silly, do I?:p



Who said this team was being built around Love? If your argument was developed to show that Lopez is a guy to build a franchise around, your wrong.

They were an 8th seed team, who were on national television it seemed like every night b/c of one guy who was overhyped because he never seemed able to step up come playoff time until 03' Thats why I called your wolves overhyped.

But you have the nerve to call one of the most storied franchises overhyped over the last ten years, while 3 of those ten resulted in championships, and two additional finals appearences.

I also see you reduced that number to 7 years, but that still doesn't work because the lakers went deep into the playoffs the last couple of years:eyebrow: It just sounds like you got some hating issues with LA because they own your city.

Jeez, If I had a dollar for every K.G. montage ESPN put out I'd be a rich man. How many times did I turn on sports center and see K.G. crying about wanting to leave the city he loved...or just crying for no reason lol lol. Gimme a break, If he didn't win his chip last season, we could very well be sitting around talking about his zero rings, his famous "MAX" contract, and him being the essence of the word "overhyped".

That guy was the Timberwolves, and ESPN, TNT, etc. milked that underdog crap for over a decade. Yes, Overhyped.


For the record, The wolves are building around Al jefferson, and Love is the first major piece. I would even go as far as saying, they are building around both considering they traded the 3rd overall pick for the Love.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 02:49 AM
which shows you didn't watch him play. So you have zero idea of what you are talking about. If you are going to speak about someone, stats help a little to justify obvious arguments, but they don't tell the whole story.

The bottom line is he and Al jeff are both forwards.

He started 19 times as a forward and 18 times as a center.

Sounds like a forward/center to me.:rolleyes:

Clearly I know what I'm talking about here...this isn't rocket science. He was a center in college, and he's an undersized F/C who will guard centers for the most part when he's on the floor...I have watched him play by the way, I have NBA league pass. You don't need to watch every game to know his un-athletic azz isn't guarding any1 but slowest guy on the opposing team, usually a center. catch my drift here?

I would love to see what position he plays when he goes head to head against a Bosh or Amare...I guarantee, with that lateral quickness he'll be playing center or atleast gurding them real quick.

I find it petty that your even distinguishing the two positions to that extent, especially in todays game. Most rosters (like the Wolves) lack a true center and have just a bunch of forwards instead. Their interchangeable, Jefferson and Love.

Jeez:rolleyes:

MTone8788
04-25-2009, 02:51 AM
LMAO, I didn't even read most of this thread, I just can't believe there are so many posts for a thread about a Rookie who is bothered by the fact he wasn't higher ranked under Derrick Rose for ROY lmao.. so insignificant.

boeknows
04-25-2009, 02:54 AM
1)I am absolutely serious...its not a racist thing to say at all, its real talk dude.

2)Because its true. Are there huge black populations in Minnesota? not really.

You honestly think the nearly all white crowd in the target center doesn't love having a White marquis player on their team? I remember how they fell in love with Wally and Googs.

Look at Atlanta, huge black poupulation, you don't think they identify with having black stars like Joe Johnson and Josh Smith playing well for them?

You don't think Boston fans love when Brian Scalabrini comes in and lights it up during mop up duty. Give me a break dude, I know my Knick fans, I'm one of them, and the White garden faithful love David Lee to pieces.

Its human nature to identify with your own to an extent, if anything, last years election should have hammered that one home for you...I don't think many Blacks voted for McCain, do you? In whats become a predominantly black professional sport, its not wrong for some white fans to be proud that his team has one of the few impact White players in the league. In todays game, you almost have to be a impact White player to make a NBA team and get minutes.

Stop living in an imaginary P.C. world, please.

yeah nobody liked Garnett in Minnesota because he was black. Thats the reason.


Just because Knicks fans are full of **** doesnt mean that happens all over the country.

boeknows
04-25-2009, 02:59 AM
I love how you sprinkled in guards and forwards that don't get double digit rebounds on a regular basis on to your list lol...that was cute. Wallace, Ty Thomas, Durant, Wade, Kidd (not old Kidd, sorry)

My point about the draft day trade, was they passed up on a can't miss scoring threat on a team that desperately needed a scoring guard...thankfully for them and you Randy Foye stepped it up and filled that void.

Calling a guy who avg'd 1 assist the best passing young big in the league is high praise...But I guess those outlet passes have you drooling.

18 and 12 are serious numbers, and thats a serious claim to think he can achieve that. We'll see, but I'll take the under on that one and say he doesn't become an 18 and 12 guy. I see him projecting out as a solid big man in the league, because I don't see him scoring night in and night out. He already has trouble getting post moves off on bigger more athletic guys, and gets blocked alot. Unless he develops some Mchale moves and really really polishes that set shot of his, 18 and 12 are fantasy land numbers.

I would much rather have a guy like Anthony Randolph than Kevin Love personally, his ceiling is much higher. He has a real legit chance at 18 and 12 when he hits his prime.

He was talking about double doubles. You can achieve that as a guard also. Its called points and assists.

And just because he didnt have the assist numbers doesnt mean he isnt a great passing big. When he throws the long outlet passes most of the time its a 2 on 1 in which usually contributes to a basket but not always an assist.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 03:06 AM
It all depends on your definition of impact. Love does things that don't show up on the stat sheet, and he is only getting better.

Usually (but not always) this means something on the defensive end of the floor...and he's a sorry defender in the making. Other than sealing his man for defensive rebounds, he isn't projected to be a difference maker on the defensive end at all. He's too slow and un-athletic to be a shot blocker or a good weak side defender. He's also, from what I've seen, not good at playing the pick and roll...which also stems from his lack of athleticism.

I'm sure he will do some things that don't show up in the stat sheet, but chances are it wont involve defense much.

He might be the worst defender from that draft not named Danillo Gallinari.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 03:12 AM
He was talking about double doubles. You can achieve that as a guard also. Its called points and assists.

And just because he didnt have the assist numbers doesnt mean he isnt a great passing big. When he throws the long outlet passes most of the time its a 2 on 1 in which usually contributes to a basket but not always an assist.

Yea, I know...the only two guards on that list who fit that category were Kidd and Wade...but the two of them also rebound at high clips as well for guards.

I know Love can pass, but calling him the "best young big man passer" or whatever is high praise for a first year player. Lets see them start running some offense through him b4 we crown him the next Vlade or Brad Miller please.

That was my point.

boeknows
04-25-2009, 03:15 AM
Yea, I know...the only two guards on that list who fit that category were Kidd and Wade...but the two of them also rebound at high clips as well for guards.

I know Love can pass, but calling him the "best young big man passer" or whatever is high praise for a first year player. Lets see them start running some offense through him b4 we crown him the next Vlade or Brad Miller please.

That was my point.

Name a better passing young big.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 03:21 AM
yeah nobody liked Garnett in Minnesota because he was black. Thats the reason.


Just because Knicks fans are full of **** doesnt mean that happens all over the country.

Dude, your full of **** yourself...you wish you were a knick fan kid...and a yank fan...and a giant fan etc etc.

They loved Garnett because he was the best thing to hit that state since Chris Carter. But don't sit here and tell me if he was White, he wouldn't be twice as popular in that state.

I dare you.

boeknows
04-25-2009, 03:33 AM
Dude, your full of **** yourself...you wish you were a knick fan kid...and a yank fan...and a giant fan etc etc.

They loved Garnett because he was the best thing to hit that state since Chris Carter. But don't sit here and tell me if he was White, he wouldn't be twice as popular in that state.

I dare you.

No not really. I hate all those teams.

No he wouldnt be twice as popular. The most popular guys in Twins and Wolves history are Puckett and Garnett 2 black guys. Race obviously doesnt play as big of a part in the midwest as it does in the state of NY.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 03:43 AM
Name a better passing young big.

David Lee, Boris Diaw, Chris Bosh, Anderson Varajeo, to name a few are all better passers than him at this point...and their all pretty young.

If your talking baby young, yea he prob is the best, but he doesn't have much competition in that area at the moment, atleast until bj mullins gets drafted.

I'm not saying Love won't be better than all 4 of them, but they don't run plays through him yet like they do these other guys. All I hear are stories about his outlet passing prowess lol...I know he's good at them, but how many of those do you think he gets a game? :eyebrow:

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 04:01 AM
No not really. I hate all those teams.

No he wouldnt be twice as popular. The most popular guys in Twins and Wolves history are Puckett and Garnett 2 black guys. Race obviously doesnt play as big of a part in the midwest as it does in the state of NY.

You hate those teams because they are better than all your teams, I get it. We rarely acknowledge your teams, this random rant on Kevin Love just happened, I can't explain it lol.

Yes he would be twice as popular, stop lying to yourself. And I'm sure Minnesotans would have elected CoCo Beware as their 38th State Govenor right????:rolleyes:

Puckett and Garnett are two black guys famous for being great for their respective teams...I know this, but in my opinion, they would be even more popular in Minnesota if they were white...alot of people would agree with me, its not a bad thing, its just a fact of life. Imagine a white dude 6'11 doing what KG was doing early in his career lol. Sh1t, I think I'd get a kick out of watching him play more if he was white doing what he does, and I'm both lol.



Race obviously doesnt play as big of a part in the midwest as it does in the state of NY

This right here makes no sense^^^^^^

Thats basically an oxymoron by the way.


"Race doesn't play as big a part in the midwest, as it does in the state of NY"

Wow did you really say that?

Wisdom Listens
04-25-2009, 11:21 AM
Puckett and Garnett are two black guys famous for being great for their respective teams...I know this, but in my opinion, they would be even more popular in Minnesota if they were white...alot of people would agree with me, its not a bad thing, its just a fact of life. Imagine a white dude 6'11 doing what KG was doing early in his career lol.

This is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever read in my life. No offense. You first went wrong when you decided to judge an entire state of people. The second thing you did wrong was to imply an entire state of people would be naive enough to measure an individuals accomplishments on a slant based on their skin color. I suggest you put an end to this argument before you make yourself appear any more foolish than you already have......

Hawkeye15
04-25-2009, 12:05 PM
I love how you sprinkled in guards and forwards that don't get double digit rebounds on a regular basis on to your list lol...that was cute. Wallace, Ty Thomas, Durant, Wade, Kidd (not old Kidd, sorry)

My point about the draft day trade, was they passed up on a can't miss scoring threat on a team that desperately needed a scoring guard...thankfully for them and you Randy Foye stepped it up and filled that void.

Calling a guy who avg'd 1 assist the best passing young big in the league is high praise...But I guess those outlet passes have you drooling.

18 and 12 are serious numbers, and thats a serious claim to think he can achieve that. We'll see, but I'll take the under on that one and say he doesn't become an 18 and 12 guy. I see him projecting out as a solid big man in the league, because I don't see him scoring night in and night out. He already has trouble getting post moves off on bigger more athletic guys, and gets blocked alot. Unless he develops some Mchale moves and really really polishes that set shot of his, 18 and 12 are fantasy land numbers.

I would much rather have a guy like Anthony Randolph than Kevin Love personally, his ceiling is much higher. He has a real legit chance at 18 and 12 when he hits his prime.


so you have fallen in love with upside and potential tags. Nice. Hopefully that works out for you. DOesn't usually happen. I think we are still waiting for Kwame, Darko, and about half the NBA to realize their, "potential"

Hawkeye15
04-25-2009, 12:14 PM
The bottom line is he and Al jeff are both forwards.

He started 19 times as a forward and 18 times as a center.

Sounds like a forward/center to me.:rolleyes:

Clearly I know what I'm talking about here...this isn't rocket science. He was a center in college, and he's an undersized F/C who will guard centers for the most part when he's on the floor...I have watched him play by the way, I have NBA league pass. You don't need to watch every game to know his un-athletic azz isn't guarding any1 but slowest guy on the opposing team, usually a center. catch my drift here?

I would love to see what position he plays when he goes head to head against a Bosh or Amare...I guarantee, with that lateral quickness he'll be playing center or atleast gurding them real quick.

I find it petty that your even distinguishing the two positions to that extent, especially in todays game. Most rosters (like the Wolves) lack a true center and have just a bunch of forwards instead. Their interchangeable, Jefferson and Love.

Jeez:rolleyes:

dude, nobody here is calling Love the next Dwight. I have simply stated, that he is a top 3 rookie this year, and deserved not only more votes, but to be on the 1st team all rookie. YOu can read my thoughts on the other individual rookies all over this site from the past 6 months. I don't feel like explaining why Mayo won't be a star, or why Westbrook is an out of position phantom number player. No need.
As far as position listed, that comes from college/high school roster. Love played C about 5% of the time he was out there. And in fact, kicked Lopez's butt all over the floor about 2 weeks before the season ended. Love struggled the first half of the season due to physicaly limitations and inconsistent playing time. He then learned, due to his ridiculously high basketball IQ, how to get around those limitations, like he has since he was 10. When given 30 mpg, he was a 15.8-9 player. And that is with a jumper that looks good, but doesn't always fall, and a hook that is almost right there, not quite. So claiming he will be an 18-12 player is not outlandish by any means.
as far as the white thing, if you take the entire population of Minnesota, yes, its very white. Go to Minneapolis or St Paul. Not so much. And McHale drafted Mayo. When Memphis decided they would give us Mike Miller and Cardinal's highly more appealing deal, plus a rebounding IQ machine for Mayo (Foye already played his position), Jaric's and Buckners crappy long term deals, and Walker, a already getting there lockerroom problem, it was a no brainer.
So, if you are sick of talking about Love, go away. Sorry, there are about 1/300 threads here for our "overhyped" Wolves team, so we jump on it when we get the chance. Go to a Lakers forum and chill there, 15 of them are running as we speak.

Hawkeye15
04-25-2009, 12:20 PM
Dude, your full of **** yourself...you wish you were a knick fan kid...and a yank fan...and a giant fan etc etc.

They loved Garnett because he was the best thing to hit that state since Chris Carter. But don't sit here and tell me if he was White, he wouldn't be twice as popular in that state.

I dare you.

I don't even feel the need to retort to this. You have made yourself look like a self centered, racist idiot on this one. Let me guess, you were all over the boards for 6th man whining about that midget that plays for you not winning it. And trust us, nobody wants to be a Knicks fan, I would rather watch Terms of Endearment over and over again than watch anything that goes on in MSG

Hawkeye15
04-25-2009, 12:22 PM
David Lee, Boris Diaw, Chris Bosh, Anderson Varajeo, to name a few are all better passers than him at this point...and their all pretty young.

If your talking baby young, yea he prob is the best, but he doesn't have much competition in that area at the moment, atleast until bj mullins gets drafted.

I'm not saying Love won't be better than all 4 of them, but they don't run plays through him yet like they do these other guys. All I hear are stories about his outlet passing prowess lol...I know he's good at them, but how many of those do you think he gets a game? :eyebrow:

How many Wolves games have you watched? Just curious. The Wolves don't get on ESPN or youtube, so unless you watch the games, you don't see his passing ability. With Webber gone, Brad Miller is about the only better passing big man in the NBA. Unless LeBron counts as a big man

Hawkeye15
04-25-2009, 12:24 PM
LMAO, I didn't even read most of this thread, I just can't believe there are so many posts for a thread about a Rookie who is bothered by the fact he wasn't higher ranked under Derrick Rose for ROY lmao.. so insignificant.

because Wolves fans get 1/300 threads on this site. When we see one, we jump it.

Kakaroach
04-25-2009, 12:44 PM
He might have gotten it had he actually played for the first half of the year. He didn't get like any minutes until Al Jefferson went out.

Greg_Sox_fan
04-25-2009, 01:18 PM
i agree with him he was overlooked all year
also oj should have won mvp he outplayed rose end of story (both are great) but oj was just a little better

mvp??? wtf are u talking about and I know u arent saying oj deserved roy over rose cuz if im not mistaken rose lead his team to the playoffs. Oj only had him in points and just as my guy Wade is the leader in ppg Lebron James is going to win mvp so as u can see points arent everything. Rose simply performed the best out of all the rookies this season

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 01:21 PM
This is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever read in my life. No offense. You first went wrong when you decided to judge an entire state of people. The second thing you did wrong was to imply an entire state of people would be naive enough to measure an individuals accomplishments on a slant based on their skin color. I suggest you put an end to this argument before you make yourself appear any more foolish than you already have......

I'm sorry if its beyond you to think a state with a predominantly white population would get kick out of seeing a white guy dominate the game the way KG did in Minnesota, how ignorant of me.

You can spin this anyway you want, but the fact of the matter is, people identify with their own ALOT of the time, not all of the time, but ALOT of the time. Its funny how some people always try to take the PC road on these subjects in order to sound overly righteous.

I meant this in a more tongue and cheek fashion, but bring it on if you must. I don't really want to get into a race riot in here, so lets just agree to disagree on this one.

Wisdom Listens
04-25-2009, 01:51 PM
I'm sorry if its beyond you to think a state with a predominantly white population would get kick out of seeing a white guy dominate the game the way KG did in Minnesota, how ignorant of me.

You can spin this anyway you want, but the fact of the matter is, people identify with their own ALOT of the time, not all of the time, but ALOT of the time. Its funny how some people always try to take the PC road on these subjects in order to sound overly righteous.

You may think of people as black or white, and it may be a normal ritual in your circles of life. But this mindset is hardly a normal thing in mine. Their own kind? If that isn't a racist comment I don't know what is. 'My own kind' is the human race, not white people thank you very much. And this isn't a ploy to appear overly righteous. This is me, 'keeping it real'.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 02:02 PM
so you have fallen in love with upside and potential tags. Nice. Hopefully that works out for you. DOesn't usually happen. I think we are still waiting for Kwame, Darko, and about half the NBA to realize their, "potential"

???Dude why are you talking to me like you know me or what my overall views on young NBA talent are lol:confused:

If you don't draft on potential and upside, your a moron. Kevin Love was 8th on my draft list by the way.

Wut I find so funny about this man crush you have on Kevin Love is, he really isn't that great YET...I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here. So far all you or any1 in here has mentioned was his "outlet pass ability" and his "offensive rebounding rate among rookies" lol what else is he really bringing to the table that makes you think he's AN 18 AND 12 GUY!!!!

Just to shed some light on this amazing double double feat by Lotto pick Kevin Love, check out david Lee's 2nd season, (keep in mind he played on 15 mins under larry brown as a rookie and he was the 30th pick)...

David Lee in 06', in 58 games playing 29 minutes a game, had 29 double doubles...in 58 games.

While Loves double double prowess was great this season, its not as Chamberlain-esq as your making it pal.

At the very least, he should project be better than David Lee, and I just don't see that happening in todays game. I'm not the only one who thinks this kid is way overrated for what he brings to the table. People that know more than both of us about the game are very skeptical about this kid.

Him going that early, only proved how weak the 2008 draft was.

Maximis
04-25-2009, 02:06 PM
he was overlooked but D-Rose won ROY hands down. Next year watch out for Brandon Jennings!!!!

Wisdom Listens
04-25-2009, 02:23 PM
If you don't draft on potential and upside, your a moron.

you're*


Wut I find so funny about this man crush you have on Kevin Love is, he really isn't that great YET...I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here. So far all you or any1 in here has mentioned was his "outlet pass ability" and his "offensive rebounding rate among rookies" lol what else is he really bringing to the table that makes you think he's AN 18 AND 12 GUY!!!!

He ranked 17th in the league in total rebounding and 5th in the league in offensive rebounding, all in his rookie season. That in itself is a high accomplishment, and tells wonders of his understanding of the game at only the age of 20. His offensive production also made a steady increase the second half of the season. Not just from a PPG perspective, but from a FG% perspective as well.

Of course as Wolves fans we will have an optimism for Kevin Love that you as a Knicks fan (or whatever you are) will not. However, despite our favoritism this optimism is not unfounded, nor is it irrational. For it's logical to assume from the indications of his rookie season, Kevin love could possibly become an 18/12 NBA player.

theuuord
04-25-2009, 02:23 PM
Him going that early, only proved how weak the 2008 draft was.

lol you are the only person on the PLANET who thinks the 2008 draft was weak.

theuuord
04-25-2009, 02:25 PM
also, can i add how dumb it is to want anthony randolph - who is a raw beanpole with long arms and no basketball iq - over kevin love, who has already proven he can play basketball at an NBA level consistently?

theuuord
04-25-2009, 02:29 PM
Oh and for the record (your gonna hate me for this one) Only a white guy (Mchale) would take Kevin Love that early.

There I said it.

lol @ THAT, when love was ranked 3rd and 4th throughout pretty much all of the NCAA season before anyone knew who was drafting where.

racism is a global issue and is way more valid than a lot of white people tend to assume but to inject it in places where it doesn't exist - especially in business - is irresponsible on your part, and i highly suggest you reconsider what you're saying here.

if you want, i can do a direct evaluation to show that Love was more valuable to his team than, say, Mayo this season, that's purely statistical.

theuuord
04-25-2009, 02:33 PM
well, first off, Lopez is a C. But, here we go yet again
Lopez played 5 mpg more, and was a starter on a team that didnt have anyone at his position before the draft, unlike Love's situation
If you want to go by highs, eh, not gonna work
Love had a PER of 18.39. Lopez a PER of 17.94
Love had 29 double doubles. Lopez had 18
Love had 120 more free throw attempts in less minutes, meaning he was all over the glass, and used his body
Love was #3 in the entire NBA in offensive rebounds, in limited minutes.
Love was #4 all time for NBA rookies in rebound rate.

Look, I am not going to say that Love is a better player outright than Lopez, but there is no way you can quantify that Lopez had a better season efficency wise.

Actually, you probably could, but it's about even for what it's worth, and most people would take Lopez for his size alone.

With regard to the FT's, to explain that from someone who was following the Nets all year it was pretty standard that refs would not give Lopez calls. At all. He got his butt kicked physically every single game by other centers and NEVER got favorable treatment from refs. To say that Lopez wasn't physical enough this season is just incorrect.

Love is an excellent player and he's #3 in my rookie rankings based on this season alone but you're not taking a lot of things into account when making the comparison between Love and Lopez.

Wisdom Listens
04-25-2009, 02:38 PM
He (Lopez) got his butt kicked physically every single game by other centers and NEVER got favorable treatment from refs. To say that Lopez wasn't physical enough this season is just incorrect.

As someone who watched more than a few Nets games this season with my league pass, I agree completely.

Bob_at_york
04-25-2009, 02:45 PM
I am a fan of his game, too bad he didn't get more love from the voters.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 02:52 PM
dude, nobody here is calling Love the next Dwight. I have simply stated, that he is a top 3 rookie this year, and deserved not only more votes, but to be on the 1st team all rookie. YOu can read my thoughts on the other individual rookies all over this site from the past 6 months. I don't feel like explaining why Mayo won't be a star, or why Westbrook is an out of position phantom number player. No need.
As far as position listed, that comes from college/high school roster. Love played C about 5% of the time he was out there. And in fact, kicked Lopez's butt all over the floor about 2 weeks before the season ended. Love struggled the first half of the season due to physicaly limitations and inconsistent playing time. He then learned, due to his ridiculously high basketball IQ, how to get around those limitations, like he has since he was 10. When given 30 mpg, he was a 15.8-9 player. And that is with a jumper that looks good, but doesn't always fall, and a hook that is almost right there, not quite. So claiming he will be an 18-12 player is not outlandish by any means.
as far as the white thing, if you take the entire population of Minnesota, yes, its very white. Go to Minneapolis or St Paul. Not so much. And McHale drafted Mayo. When Memphis decided they would give us Mike Miller and Cardinal's highly more appealing deal, plus a rebounding IQ machine for Mayo (Foye already played his position), Jaric's and Buckners crappy long term deals, and Walker, a already getting there lockerroom problem, it was a no brainer.
So, if you are sick of talking about Love, go away. Sorry, there are about 1/300 threads here for our "overhyped" Wolves team, so we jump on it when we get the chance. Go to a Lakers forum and chill there, 15 of them are running as we speak.

You could hit the return button once or twice after a paragraph, just a thought. It makes reading your Kevin "Love Notes" a lil easier. Nobodies calling him the next Dwight, but yo sure are making a case for that when you say he's a potential 18 and 12 guy.

18 and 12 are special numbers, not common numbers from un-athletic big men like Love. I don't see him (with Al Jefferson on the block) getting enough touches to average 18 points...epescially with a guard who dominates the ball like foye does. I don't see him having the huge scoring games across an 82 game season to average out at 18 ppg while pulling down 12 boards at the same time. 18 and 12 more or less are Dwight numbers, and I can't fathom this guy doing that at a generous 6'8 playing below the rim.

Can he get 18 and 12 here and there? certainly, he could get 20 and 15 once in a while, but I don't see him averaging those type of numbers consistantly...and thats what you need to do to avg out at 18 and 12.

I'm guessing in your mind he's gonna avg 18 and 12 for like 4-5 years in a row right? (I would like the answer to this question by the way)

You don't need to explain to me anything about Mayo and Westbrook, I get it they're not star material like your boy Love. I can't believe you think Mayo can't become a star in this league, the guys offensive game is so polished its scary. And according to your comments about Westbrook, you think he's just some potential filled freak of an athlete right...don't even take into accont he was arguably the best defender in the draft and plays the most important position in game.

Like I stated b4 Love started 19 games at forward and 18 games at center...where this 5% thing comes into play, I have no idea. He was guarding centers out there so why are so hung up on his listed position. He was drafted as a F/C thats a fact...deal with it. Either way, in todays game he's an undersized big (height wise)...so was Barkley, so chillax, theres some hope.


Love struggled the first half of the season due to physicaly limitations and inconsistent playing time. He then learned, due to his ridiculously high basketball IQ, how to get around those limitations, like he has since he was 10.

This sounds like a audio clip from fox's "beyond the glory" series.

I swear, is 'high basketball IQ" is like code for White and un-athletic lol. I'm so tired of hearing about this guys high IQ. What? Derrick Rose basketball IQ is less than his because h's black and can jump through the roof? how do people even measure this lol (i'm sure you know tho:rolleyes:). Barkley was so right on that subject its scary.

When do you even here that title associated with Black athletes?? thats a discussion for another day tho.

I also get the draft day trade, thank you for explaining it for the tenth time. All Im saying is, in my opinon taking him that early was a mistake, one you will see when this kid becomes an NBA "LOTTO" bust.

Mabye I would have left this thread a lot earlier, if your boy Mr. Twin didn't come out and call the Lakers the most overhyped team in the last 10 years. Something I still don't get:eyebrow::confused: How a team with the best player in basketball and one of the most storied traditions of consistently winning year in and year out, get called "overhyped"...thats just crazy talk.

And from a T-Wolves fan at that??? absolute utter amazement:speechless:

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 03:11 PM
I don't even feel the need to retort to this. You have made yourself look like a self centered, racist idiot on this one. Let me guess, you were all over the boards for 6th man whining about that midget that plays for you not winning it. And trust us, nobody wants to be a Knicks fan, I would rather watch Terms of Endearment over and over again than watch anything that goes on in MSG

Why am I a racist? because I'm acknowledging that Minnesotans would get more of a kick out of seeing a white 6'11 PF doin work for 13 years than a black one? Do you not agree that White people across the nation smiled a little more when Nash took home the MVP twice? cmon dude, this isn't as deep as your making it. Its all politics.

I know its been open season on knick fans, so much so we have T-Wolves fans lambasting us, I get it lol...But my team losing still gets more press than your team winning. I love being a Knick Fan, and I certainly wont take offense from some guy, who's never witnessed an NBA finals in the Target Center, yet has the nerve to insult the "Worlds Greatest Arena"

The biggest acts to hit MSG were prob the Stones or Springsteen...maybe the Dead all those years.

Target Center biggest act to date...Jonas Brothers/Miley Cyrus...maybe??? ...certainly not the T-Wolves.

First its the Lakers being overhyped, now these kids got jokes on MSG lol unbelievable!!!!

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 03:18 PM
How many Wolves games have you watched? Just curious. The Wolves don't get on ESPN or youtube, so unless you watch the games, you don't see his passing ability. With Webber gone, Brad Miller is about the only better passing big man in the NBA. Unless LeBron counts as a big man

NBA league pass...get to know it.

I know he can pass, I've seen it. I still don't think he should have been picked that high, and in a good draft, he wouldn't have been. I almost wish he would have been picked later, maybe I would give him more respect. He would have been a steal at 26.

And considering Lebron is taller than Love...maybe you should count him as a big man, just a thought.

Bob_at_york
04-25-2009, 03:24 PM
Why am I a racist? because I'm acknowledging that Minnesotans would get more of a kick out of seeing a white 6'11 PF doin work for 13 years than a black one? Do you not agree that White people across the nation smiled a little more when Nash took home the MVP twice? cmon dude, this isn't as deep as your making it. Its all politics.
What? Are you saying that people from Minnesota are racist? I don't see what the color of someone's skin has to do with this.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 03:57 PM
You may think of people as black or white, and it may be a normal ritual in your circles of life. But this mindset is hardly a normal thing in mine. Their own kind? If that isn't a racist comment I don't know what is. 'My own kind' is the human race, not white people thank you very much. And this isn't a ploy to appear overly righteous. This is me, 'keeping it real'.

:bla::bla::bla:

I get it. You can spin my words if you want there kid, I'm both black and Italian, I don't have a racist bone in my body (do I make jokes, ofcourse, we all do) but there IS something called pride in your race, I am proud of both my italian and black heritages. There is white pride and black pride...and its OK, white pride doesn't mean your holding KKK rallys in your back yard, its simply identifying with ones race at times, and being proud.

There is nothing wrong with it.

Look at a guy like Pistol Pete...is it a coincidence he's remembered in some white circles as the greatest basketball player ever not named MJ? Is it wrong that black in some black circles Earl the Pearl (his black counterpart back in the day) was regarded as a better player than the Pistol?

Do you really think race pride had absolutely nothing to do with those old Magic vs Bird arguments at times back in the day? cmon now.

I'm a die hard Yankee fan, but seeing a guy like Mike Piazza represent for Italians the way he did always brought an extra smile to my face. Seeing Tiger woods step up in the ''whitest'' sport (I call it a sport) and become the greatest brought a big smile to my face and many other minorities as well.

Its not wrong to look at the demographics of a certain area of the country and think a player might be more popular based on his or her race. Some White people in my opinion, get so uncomfortable during discussions of race, they seem to go out of their way to NOT come across racist, when they aren't even being accused of it.

This is the real world, and like it or not, many people identify with people of their own color, more so than not. I wish it wasn't that way all the time, but its part of life...and In a predominantly White state like Minnesota, no offense, a fair amount of people may not take your "Kumbaya", open minded stance all the time.

Again, I'm not calling Minnesota racist, but to the kid who said "People in the Midwest don't worry about race, like they do in NY"

Please save that bull**** for the next person please, there is zero truth to that.

ryguy2k7
04-25-2009, 04:01 PM
Lopez clearly outplayed Love from start to finish...you guys are clear homers...its so obvious its hilarious.

And I stand by my statement.

Blacks make up 3.5 percent of the MN population...Minnesota is a very white state, I'm not saying their racist over there, but your delusional if you don't think they love (no pun intended) having Kevin Love, a white guy, starting on there roster...as long as he plays well.

You can say what you want, it the truth.


Oh and for the record (your gonna hate me for this one) Only a white guy (Mchale) would take Kevin Love that early.

There I said it.

Someone has to stand up for Minnesota...and since I was born there and bleed Minnesota I am going to. So call me a homer all you want, it's really not that big of an insult.

I really don't think Lopez outplayed Love. I hate when people say "It's the truth...I'm right your wrong." It's an opinion. Stop being such an ignorant dick head.

I really don't get the whole thing you talk about with the White audience loving a White dominant player. Fans go for skill and success, not skin color. That's such an incredibly stupid argument.

I can't believe I am even wasting my time on responding to your insane, jack-*** remarks.

GarlicStench
04-25-2009, 04:21 PM
Anthiny Randolph is the one who got screwed. But he will best rookie of all in 3 years!

Wisdom Listens
04-25-2009, 04:21 PM
I get it. You can spin my words if you want there kid

I don't think you do get it. But before you go any further. I am 28, married, with 2 kids who are probably both more mature than you. Think twice before you call someone 'kid'. Especially when you're the one making generalizations and prejudice statements.

I'm done listening to this irrationality. Time to watch the Draft....

sugarrayray
04-25-2009, 04:26 PM
i like how competitive he is, and yes hes been consistently underrated

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 04:50 PM
lol you are the only person on the PLANET who thinks the 2008 draft was weak.

No, I'm not, it was a regarded as a weak draft by many experts.

But I respect your opinion.

abe_froman
04-25-2009, 04:52 PM
No, I'm not, it was a regarded as a weak draft by many experts.

But I respect your opinion.

your joking right

Hawkeye15
04-25-2009, 04:55 PM
Why am I a racist? because I'm acknowledging that Minnesotans would get more of a kick out of seeing a white 6'11 PF doin work for 13 years than a black one? Do you not agree that White people across the nation smiled a little more when Nash took home the MVP twice? cmon dude, this isn't as deep as your making it. Its all politics.

I know its been open season on knick fans, so much so we have T-Wolves fans lambasting us, I get it lol...But my team losing is still gets more press than your team winning. I love being a Knick Fan, and I certainly wont take offense from some guy, who's never witnessed an NBA finals in the Target Center, yet has the nerve to insult the "Worlds Greatest Arena"

The biggest thing to hit acts to hit MSG were prob the Stones or Springsteen...maybe the Dead all those years.

Target Center biggest act to date...Jonas Brothers/Miley Cyrus...maybe??? ...certainly not the T-Wolves.

First its the Lakers being overhyped, now these kids got jokes on MSG lol unbelievable!!!!


Um, yes, you are being racist, or basically calling the entire state of Minnesota racist.
You are acting like a child bloop. Grow up. The world doesn't revolve around NY sports. Whats funny, is, you're team is continually one of the top spenders in the NBA, yet you suck every year. I was a child when the Knicks were relevant. So don't act all high and mighty.

Hawkeye15
04-25-2009, 04:59 PM
:bla::bla::bla:

I get it. You can spin my words if you want there kid, I'm both black and Italian, I don't have a racist bone in my body (do I make jokes, ofcourse, we all do) but there IS something called pride in your race, I am proud of both my italian and black heritages. There is white pride and black pride...and its OK, white pride doesn't mean your holding KKK rallys in your back yard, its simply identifying with ones race at times, and being proud.

There is nothing wrong with it.

Look at a guy like Pistol Pete...is it a coincidence he's remembered in some white circles as the greatest basketball player ever not named MJ? Is it wrong that black in some black circles Earl the Pearl (his black counterpart back in the day) was regarded as a better player than the Pistol?

Do you really think race pride had absolutely nothing to do with those old Magic vs Bird arguments at times back in the day? cmon now.

I'm a die hard Yankee fan, but seeing a guy like Mike Piazza represent for Italians the way he did always brought an extra smile to my face. Seeing Tiger woods step up in the ''whitest'' sport (I call it a sport) and become the greatest brought a big smile to my face and many other minorities as well.

Its not wrong to look at the demographics of a certain area of the country and think a player might be more popular based on his or her race. Some White people in my opinion, get so uncomfortable during discussions of race, they seem to go out of their way to NOT come across racist, when they aren't even being accused of it.

This is the real world, and like it or not, many people identify with people of their own color, more so than not. I wish it wasn't that way all the time, but its part of life...and In a predominantly White state like Minnesota, no offense, a fair amount of people may not take your "Kumbaya", open minded stance all the time.

Again, I'm not calling Minnesota racist, but to the kid who said "People in the Midwest don't worry about race, like they do in NY"

Please save that bull**** for the next person please, there is zero truth to that.


you have 100% called Minnesotans racist. Go back and read you're posts. I could really care less, but it is still the truth. And you have you're opinions. You can have him rated as the worst rookie for all I care. I am not concerned with that. I have built a case that he is a top 3 rookie, and at the very least, 1st team all rookie. You have done nothing factually to dispute this.
If this subject really bothers you that badly, then go away. That part is easy. NObody is spinning you're words. There is no need to do so on these boards, they are there for everyone to see.
Anyway, this will be my last response to you on this subject. I would rather watch the Rockets/Knicks final from the mid 90's than listen to you anymore.

theuuord
04-25-2009, 05:02 PM
No, I'm not, it was a regarded as a weak draft by many experts.

But I respect your opinion.

now you're just lying.

show me some. prove your points. back up what you say.
if you can't find "many" you're just blowing hot air.

theuuord
04-25-2009, 05:05 PM
:bla::bla::bla:

I get it. You can spin my words if you want there kid, I'm both black and Italian, I don't have a racist bone in my body (do I make jokes, ofcourse, we all do) but there IS something called pride in your race, I am proud of both my italian and black heritages. There is white pride and black pride...and its OK, white pride doesn't mean your holding KKK rallys in your back yard, its simply identifying with ones race at times, and being proud.

There is nothing wrong with it.

Look at a guy like Pistol Pete...is it a coincidence he's remembered in some white circles as the greatest basketball player ever not named MJ? Is it wrong that black in some black circles Earl the Pearl (his black counterpart back in the day) was regarded as a better player than the Pistol?

Do you really think race pride had absolutely nothing to do with those old Magic vs Bird arguments at times back in the day? cmon now.

I'm a die hard Yankee fan, but seeing a guy like Mike Piazza represent for Italians the way he did always brought an extra smile to my face. Seeing Tiger woods step up in the ''whitest'' sport (I call it a sport) and become the greatest brought a big smile to my face and many other minorities as well.

Its not wrong to look at the demographics of a certain area of the country and think a player might be more popular based on his or her race. Some White people in my opinion, get so uncomfortable during discussions of race, they seem to go out of their way to NOT come across racist, when they aren't even being accused of it.

This is the real world, and like it or not, many people identify with people of their own color, more so than not. I wish it wasn't that way all the time, but its part of life...and In a predominantly White state like Minnesota, no offense, a fair amount of people may not take your "Kumbaya", open minded stance all the time.

Again, I'm not calling Minnesota racist, but to the kid who said "People in the Midwest don't worry about race, like they do in NY"

Please save that bull**** for the next person please, there is zero truth to that.

none of this has to do with Kevin Love's basketball ability.

Which is outstanding.

And 3rd in the NBA this year as far as rookies go.

You're right that white people will identify with other white people more quickly.
But you're wrong in assuming that's the reason people think Kevin Love was good this year.

I have no ethnic or geographic connection to Kevin Love, and he was the third best rookie in the league.

IRUAM #21
04-25-2009, 05:09 PM
No, I'm not, it was a regarded as a weak draft by many experts.

But I respect your opinion.

:crazy:

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 08:32 PM
also, can i add how dumb it is to want anthony randolph - who is a raw beanpole with long arms and no basketball iq - over kevin love, who has already proven he can play basketball at an NBA level consistently?

Anthony Randolph is the goods. Sure he's raw, but he looked great when he got consistent minutes. He showed a nice touch from 15 feet, solid moves around the basket, defensive intensity (blocks & steals) and LOTS of rebounds.

I'm sorry you think his IQ is zero...like you know lol. But the kid has alot more tools for success in the NBA than Kevin Love...in my opinion.

Is Kevin Love more polished, ofcourse, nobodies arguing that, I'm simply saying Randolph's talent ceiling is much higher.

During the last 30 games of the season, they were both avg about 28 minutes a game, heres how the stats looked...

Love- 14.2 PPG 9.5 REB 0.6 BLK 0.5 STL .447 FG% .818 FT%

Randolph- 11.7 PPG 9.2 REB 1.4 BLK 1.2 STL .469 FG% .750 FT%

They both played for losing clubs, but it appears Randolph brings a bit more to the table defensively.

This isn't really about comparing them this season, but more to show SOME people, Randolph is no bum.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 08:38 PM
What? Are you saying that people from Minnesota are racist? I don't see what the color of someone's skin has to do with this.

You came in late. No I'm not saying Minnesotans are racist. All I said was that KG would have been more popular in Minnesota if he happened to be black.

Thats all...and it was more tongue and cheek than anything.

Some people chose to paint me as if I'm Jerimiah Wright.

Hilarious.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 08:48 PM
Someone has to stand up for Minnesota...and since I was born there and bleed Minnesota I am going to. So call me a homer all you want, it's really not that big of an insult.

I really don't think Lopez outplayed Love. I hate when people say "It's the truth...I'm right your wrong." It's an opinion. Stop being such an ignorant dick head.

I really don't get the whole thing you talk about with the White audience loving a White dominant player. Fans go for skill and success, not skin color. That's such an incredibly stupid argument.

I can't believe I am even wasting my time on responding to your insane, jack-*** remarks.


Fans go for skill and success, not skin color. That's such an incredibly stupid argument.

This is not always the case...please step out of your politically correct box for one moment...Race and Sport have gone hand in hand for years. Nowadays its just a bit more subtle.

All I said was they would be extra excited for a White "KG" type player...jeez.

You're being overly defensive because you think I'm calling you and all Minnesotans racist...thats not the case at all



*And I can believe it, you actually took out the time to start a thread about lil old me.

great job!

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 08:50 PM
Anthiny Randolph is the one who got screwed. But he will best rookie of all in 3 years!

Maybe not the best, but very fkn good.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 08:52 PM
your joking right

Your...Abe Froman? ;)

No I'm serious, it wasn't that deep of a draft in my opinion.

Not Bogut weak, but it wasn't great.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 09:09 PM
Um, yes, you are being racist, or basically calling the entire state of Minnesota racist.
You are acting like a child bloop. Grow up. The world doesn't revolve around NY sports. Whats funny, is, you're team is continually one of the top spenders in the NBA, yet you suck every year. I was a child when the Knicks were relevant. So don't act all high and mighty.

I'm not being racist at all.

I'm not gonna get into a dissing contest with you people, clearly you took what I said the wrong way and I'm sick of trying to hammer it home through your dense skulls.

I get it, people outside NY loathe NY sport teams...what's hilarious is we could care less what happens in your 2nd rate sport towns.

I wasn't a child when the Knicks were getting past the first round every year ;) by the way.

Your genius Wolves management were the first to throw ******** 100 mil max contracts out to young players...the result, you guys couldn't build a team around KG for years. As dumb as Knicks management has been, Mchale should have been dumped years ago for his ineptitude.

The bottom line is you don't know what the finals smell like, I do. So again what room do you have to talk about my Knicks?

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 09:14 PM
you have 100% called Minnesotans racist. Go back and read you're posts. I could really care less, but it is still the truth. And you have you're opinions. You can have him rated as the worst rookie for all I care. I am not concerned with that. I have built a case that he is a top 3 rookie, and at the very least, 1st team all rookie. You have done nothing factually to dispute this.
If this subject really bothers you that badly, then go away. That part is easy. NObody is spinning you're words. There is no need to do so on these boards, they are there for everyone to see.
Anyway, this will be my last response to you on this subject. I would rather watch the Rockets/Knicks final from the mid 90's than listen to you anymore.

Must stink having to watch other teams play in the finals every year lol. enjoy it, it was a great series.

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 09:23 PM
now you're just lying.

show me some. prove your points. back up what you say.
if you can't find "many" you're just blowing hot air.

The 2008 NBA Draft looks weak and uninspiring on paper, so perhaps in this new Bizarro world of draft scouting that means we’re looking at a fantastic class. Like last year, the top two picks will be one-and-done freshmen. Michael Beasley had one of the most productive freshman seasons ever. He led the country in rebounding and was third in scoring. Beasley is every bit as talented as Kevin Durant, plus he has a strong NBA-ready body. Derrick Rose is a powerful point guard with an exceptional basketball IQ. He is just a little more shooting range away from being a near-perfect point guard prospect. Now here’s the problem – after those two guys, the talent level drops off a cliff. There is a majority of one-and-done players that aren’t close to being ready for the NBA yet. My advice is always for prospects to play at least two years in the NCAA unless they are sure to be a top ten pick. I don’t care about their interest in getting paid. That’s an issue for the player and his (misleading) agent. I only care about basketball and a prospect that can’t make an NBA roster is useless. There are only about 450 roster spots in the NBA. A borderline prospect rarely gets one of those jobs, and this draft is loaded with bordeliners. There are only a few centers available, most of the point guards are shooting guards trying to make the dreaded position change, and there will be almost no seniors or juniors taken in the first round.


After Beasley and Rose its filled with with very good role player types...I agree.

Even the top two aren't hands down franchise type players in the traditional sense...this year will be worse, hopefully we can agree on that at least.

c

MrBloop
04-25-2009, 09:29 PM
none of this has to do with Kevin Love's basketball ability.

Which is outstanding.

And 3rd in the NBA this year as far as rookies go.

You're right that white people will identify with other white people more quickly.
But you're wrong in assuming that's the reason people think Kevin Love was good this year.

I have no ethnic or geographic connection to Kevin Love, and he was the third best rookie in the league.

Look, you obviously came late to the discussion, so you don't know what context my statements are coming from.


But you're wrong in assuming that's the reason people think Kevin Love was good this year.


lol this why you shouldn't jump into people convos...I never said thats why people thought Kevin Love was good this year.:rolleyes:

Either look back a few pages or STFU, either way I wasn't talking to you.

thanx ;)

theuuord
04-25-2009, 10:24 PM
The 2008 NBA Draft looks weak and uninspiring on paper, so perhaps in this new Bizarro world of draft scouting that means weíre looking at a fantastic class. Like last year, the top two picks will be one-and-done freshmen. Michael Beasley had one of the most productive freshman seasons ever. He led the country in rebounding and was third in scoring. Beasley is every bit as talented as Kevin Durant, plus he has a strong NBA-ready body. Derrick Rose is a powerful point guard with an exceptional basketball IQ. He is just a little more shooting range away from being a near-perfect point guard prospect. Now hereís the problem Ė after those two guys, the talent level drops off a cliff. There is a majority of one-and-done players that arenít close to being ready for the NBA yet. My advice is always for prospects to play at least two years in the NCAA unless they are sure to be a top ten pick. I donít care about their interest in getting paid. Thatís an issue for the player and his (misleading) agent. I only care about basketball and a prospect that canít make an NBA roster is useless. There are only about 450 roster spots in the NBA. A borderline prospect rarely gets one of those jobs, and this draft is loaded with bordeliners. There are only a few centers available, most of the point guards are shooting guards trying to make the dreaded position change, and there will be almost no seniors or juniors taken in the first round.


After Beasley and Rose its filled with with very good role player types...I agree.

Even the top two aren't hands down franchise type players in the traditional sense...this year will be worse, hopefully we can agree on that at least.

c

That blog was before the draft even took place! How can you use that as a source when it relies on absolutely ZERO actual NBA value?

Jeez, man. Usually I defer to individual opinion, but you're just straight up wrong here.

theuuord
04-25-2009, 10:28 PM
Look, you obviously came late to the discussion, so you don't know what context my statements are coming from.



lol this why you shouldn't jump into people convos...I never said thats why people thought Kevin Love was good this year.:rolleyes:

Either look back a few pages or STFU, either way I wasn't talking to you.

thanx ;)

First of all, your method of discourse is outstanding. You should really teach courses on logic and communications.

Secondly, I know exactly what you're saying. You're saying that T'Wolves fans, who are mostly white Minnestotans, are biased for Kevin Love more than they were to Kevin Garnett due to the color of his skin, and as a result they overrated his performance.

AND that no GM would have taken Love that high if they weren't a former white NBA player (McHale). Among other things. (Although I already explained why you were wrong on that one - a row of posts you conveniently missed.)

While you're right that race plays a factor, race doesn't affect your statistical performance. And Love was the third best rookie this year looking at facts, rather than subjectivity.
If you're having trouble seeing that because you're focused on Love's whiteness, then you're just factblind.

theuuord
04-25-2009, 10:29 PM
Anthony Randolph is the goods. Sure he's raw, but he looked great when he got consistent minutes. He showed a nice touch from 15 feet, solid moves around the basket, defensive intensity (blocks & steals) and LOTS of rebounds.

I'm sorry you think his IQ is zero...like you know lol. But the kid has alot more tools for success in the NBA than Kevin Love...in my opinion.

Is Kevin Love more polished, ofcourse, nobodies arguing that, I'm simply saying Randolph's talent ceiling is much higher.

During the last 30 games of the season, they were both avg about 28 minutes a game, heres how the stats looked...

Love- 14.2 PPG 9.5 REB 0.6 BLK 0.5 STL .447 FG% .818 FT%

Randolph- 11.7 PPG 9.2 REB 1.4 BLK 1.2 STL .469 FG% .750 FT%

They both played for losing clubs, but it appears Randolph brings a bit more to the table defensively.

This isn't really about comparing them this season, but more to show SOME people, Randolph is no bum.

Dude you're really relying on a per-minute (and not per-possession) 30-game sample when you have 82 games and way better stats to work with?
You're beyond grasping for straws at this point.

boeknows
04-26-2009, 12:41 AM
You hate those teams because they are better than all your teams, I get it. We rarely acknowledge your teams, this random rant on Kevin Love just happened, I can't explain it lol.

Yes he would be twice as popular, stop lying to yourself. And I'm sure Minnesotans would have elected CoCo Beware as their 38th State Govenor right????:rolleyes:

Puckett and Garnett are two black guys famous for being great for their respective teams...I know this, but in my opinion, they would be even more popular in Minnesota if they were white...alot of people would agree with me, its not a bad thing, its just a fact of life. Imagine a white dude 6'11 doing what KG was doing early in his career lol. Sh1t, I think I'd get a kick out of watching him play more if he was white doing what he does, and I'm both lol.




This right here makes no sense^^^^^^

Thats basically an oxymoron by the way.


"Race doesn't play as big a part in the midwest, as it does in the state of NY"

Wow did you really say that?

Those teams are better than the ones i root for? The Yankees cant ever buy a championship while spending way over 200 mil a year. The Giants have lost how many times to the Vikes in the last couple of years. And the Knicks are horrible, the Wolves havent been much better but i would never want to be a NY fan.

YOu can have ur opinion on the black and white thing but we already have had a big white guy that was really good. Mikan maybe u have heard of him. IMO Garnett is a much bigger icon in Minnesota basketball than Mikan is. When u think of basketball in Minnesota history the first guy u come up with is Garnett.

I dont think u actaully know what the definition of oxymoron is if u think thats an oxymoron.

boeknows
04-26-2009, 01:13 AM
Do you not agree that White people across the nation smiled a little more when Nash took home the MVP twice? cmon dude, this isn't as deep as your making it. Its all politics.


No i dont. I was much happier when Garnett took it. Just because Nash is white doesnt mean that everyone should be really happy he won it. Does that mean when a black person wins it we should be pissed off.

abe_froman
04-26-2009, 01:36 AM
Your...Abe Froman? ;)

No I'm serious, it wasn't that deep of a draft in my opinion.

Not Bogut weak, but it wasn't great.

your experts are who?(or is it just your opinion?),and are you not familiar with this class,the draft,or basketball at all?

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 04:57 AM
First of all, your method of discourse is outstanding. You should really teach courses on logic and communications.

Secondly, I know exactly what you're saying. You're saying that T'Wolves fans, who are mostly white Minnestotans, are biased for Kevin Love more than they were to Kevin Garnett due to the color of his skin, and as a result they overrated his performance.

AND that no GM would have taken Love that high if they weren't a former white NBA player (McHale). Among other things. (Although I already explained why you were wrong on that one - a row of posts you conveniently missed.)

While you're right that race plays a factor, race doesn't affect your statistical performance. And Love was the third best rookie this year looking at facts, rather than subjectivity.
If you're having trouble seeing that because you're focused on Love's whiteness, then you're just factblind.

I bolded the statements that you completely made up due to your lack of knowing what I said during the conversation.

I'm gonna clear this up one last time, I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.

I said two things.

1) I said that if KG was white, he would have been twice as popular in the state of minnesota.

2) I said only a white dude like Kevin Mchale (unathletic big himself) would have traded he 3rd pick (in any way) for Kevin Love...That was a joke more than anything, one I made b/c people made such a big deal about the "KG comment"

Both were said in tongue and cheek fashion, but yourself and a few other characters, chose to bring out the reverse race card on me here. Lighten up. If you really tried to understand where Im coming from, instead of taking a golden opportunity to call some1 racist maybe you would see where I'm coming from. I gave examples, but you obviously didn't pay attention to them.

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 05:04 AM
That blog was before the draft even took place! How can you use that as a source when it relies on absolutely ZERO actual NBA value?

Jeez, man. Usually I defer to individual opinion, but you're just straight up wrong here.

That blog was an opinion based, just like my claim that last years draft was overrated. As we speak, other than Rose, nobody really blew me away this season.

who cares when it was written.

I thought it was a balanced draft, but I saw no real can't miss stud type players outside the top 2.

Ofcourse you guys aren't gonna agree with me, you people would have taken love at #1 if you had the chance lol.

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 05:16 AM
Dude you're really relying on a per-minute (and not per-possession) 30-game sample when you have 82 games and way better stats to work with?
You're beyond grasping for straws at this point.

There is nothing wrong with me using per minute stats here herb, now your just nit picking. I used the last 30 days...not games, read. I figured since they were both out of contention, they would get plenty of minutes, and they did.

It was more to compare his stats to randolph fairly, since he didn't play much until late in the season. And I also wanted show how Love brings absolutely nothing to the defensive end besides his rebounding.


Grasping for straws is having a circle jerk over Kevin Loves pretty good, not great rookie season and talking him up like he's the next Moses Malone.

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 05:51 AM
Those teams are better than the ones i root for? The Yankees cant ever buy a championship while spending way over 200 mil a year. The Giants have lost how many times to the Vikes in the last couple of years. And the Knicks are horrible, the Wolves havent been much better but i would never want to be a NY fan.

YOu can have ur opinion on the black and white thing but we already have had a big white guy that was really good. Mikan maybe u have heard of him. IMO Garnett is a much bigger icon in Minnesota basketball than Mikan is. When u think of basketball in Minnesota history the first guy u come up with is Garnett.

I dont think u actaully know what the definition of oxymoron is if u think thats an oxymoron.

Yes, those teams are better than the teams you root for kid from left field.
If you knew anything about sports, you would know money doesn't really buy championships and thats not how it really works. But I'm used this typical stale Yankee hate that all over the PSD. For the record the Yankees (for the most part) have always had the highest payrolls in the league dating back to the days of Babe Ruth. I can sleep knowing I've been to more championship parades then you will ever witness in you're entire life. 26 and counting.

But I got a Twin fan talking sh1t??? WOW!:rolleyes:


As for my giants, we just won arguably the greatest super bowl of all time a couple of years ago and you guys have Gus Ferotte and Tavaris Jackson taking snaps at QB...really what room do you have to talk. My team is the most balanced team in the whole fkn league, and you're gonna sit here and bring up some head to head matchups...when we ha a better record than you overall???? unbelievable.

If you wanna talk about head to head matchups, didn't my yankees eliminate your trash Twins last time they met in the playoffs???? I can play this stupid petty game to.

My Knicks are horrible, but the future looks mighty bright LBJ or not...Your team is absolutely awful. You have no room to talk, I grew up watching my team go deep into the post season each year, you grew up watching your wolves get bumped each year in the first round. Whatever negative things you say about my team doesn't take away the fact that I can come up with a million reasons why your franchise isn't close to being as successful as the Knicks.

What is the T-wolves defining moment as a franchise???? trading Garnett to the C's and handing the city of Boston a chip? thats gotta be it...Maybe its the year you guys didn't get bumped in the first round...who knows and who cares...nobody, and why? because you're the Timberwolves. Atleast you guys have that Isiah Rider dunk contest...that was dope, I was like 16 lol.



YOu can have ur opinion on the black and white thing but we already have had a big white guy that was really good. Mikan maybe u have heard of him. IMO Garnett is a much bigger icon in Minnesota basketball than Mikan is. When u think of basketball in Minnesota history the first guy u come up with is Garnett.

Hey thank you for letting me on the secret that is George Mikan, I really appreciate that buddy. Garnett is a bigger icon because Mikan is irrellavent nowadays aside from being a man amongst boys back in the day. He was a great during a time when there wasn't many great players and little to no black players. Mikan never had a realistic chance at remaining bigger than KG in minnesota.

I kinda see where you tried to go with this...kinda...your not really saying anything here tho lol.

If you had a guy as good as Garnett who was white, he would be on every billboard in every town in your state...HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS.

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 06:02 AM
No i dont. I was much happier when Garnett took it. Just because Nash is white doesnt mean that everyone should be really happy he won it. Does that mean when a black person wins it we should be pissed off.

I said some White people not all. If you don't think some white people across North America weren't a little giddy when Nash won 2 MVP's in a league dominated by Black athletes??? gimme a break...once again some not all white people...some not all white people...some not all white people...some not...did it sink in yet????????????

Can you understand why black people root extra hard for Tiger Woods????

Do you really think white people didn't love the fact that Larry Bird was arguably the greatest player during the 80's b4 Mike got going?

You particular white people seem to get furious when you think some1's calling you a racist...even when they're clearly not.



Does that mean when a black person wins it we should be pissed off.

No it doesn't. Nice try at once again trying to put words in my mouth.

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 06:11 AM
your experts are who?(or is it just your opinion?),and are you not familiar with this class,the draft,or basketball at all?

I'm not gonna humor some prick I don't know and go back and list every expert I heard say that there was a huge drop off outside the top two. I even heard some experts comment on how rose and beasley aren't amazing 1,2 picks. I formulated my own opinions by looking at the draft board.


are you not familiar with this class,the draft,or basketball at all?

Are you not familiar with space after your commas mr. pettyness?

I'm very familiar with just about every player in the league, I could careless what you think about my opinions kid. This draft was not amazing, but alot remains to be seen, thats usually how you judge a draft, you wait a few years and look back.

You must be the sausage king of Chicago b/c you know dik.

AngHellic
04-26-2009, 06:26 AM
I said some White people not all. If you don't think some white people across North America weren't a little giddy when Nash won 2 MVP's in a league dominated by Black athletes??? gimme a break...once again some not all white people...some not all white people...some not all white people...some not...did it sink in yet????????????

Can you understand why black people root extra hard for Tiger Woods????

Do you really think white people didn't love the fact that Larry Bird was arguably the greatest player during the 80's b4 Mike got going?

You particular white people seem to get furious when you think some1's calling you a racist...even when they're clearly not.



No it doesn't. Nice try at once again trying to put words in my mouth.

What's the point of bringing up race in the first place?:confused:

WSU Tony
04-26-2009, 08:08 AM
What's the point of bringing up race in the first place?:confused:

He has to, the post padder has nothing else to say. :laugh2:

EX-TREME
04-26-2009, 09:04 AM
He has to, the post padder has nothing else to say. :laugh2:

true

theuuord
04-26-2009, 12:28 PM
I bolded the statements that you completely made up due to your lack of knowing what I said during the conversation.

I'm gonna clear this up one last time, I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.

I said two things.

1) I said that if KG was white, he would have been twice as popular in the state of minnesota.

2) I said only a white dude like Kevin Mchale (unathletic big himself) would have traded he 3rd pick (in any way) for Kevin Love...That was a joke more than anything, one I made b/c people made such a big deal about the "KG comment"

Both were said in tongue and cheek fashion, but yourself and a few other characters, chose to bring out the reverse race card on me here. Lighten up. If you really tried to understand where Im coming from, instead of taking a golden opportunity to call some1 racist maybe you would see where I'm coming from. I gave examples, but you obviously didn't pay attention to them.

Speaking of putting words in someone's mouth... when did I ever call you racist? Reverse racism is like the ugliest phrase in existence. I don't play that "card" because there's no such thing.

1) I'm not sure how your first comment contradicts anything I said.

2) I already told you why that was wrong. Love had been in the top 3 on draft boards all night. A lot of people (including myself) had him ranked more highly than Mayo on their draft boards (and still do). People were crediting McHale for a genius move at the time. Look at Bill Simmons's writeup after the draft on it.

And please don't say you said those things in tongue in cheek fashion after you've spent like 50 posts trying to defend them. It kills your already dead credibility.

theuuord
04-26-2009, 12:32 PM
That blog was an opinion based, just like my claim that last years draft was overrated. As we speak, other than Rose, nobody really blew me away this season.

who cares when it was written.

I thought it was a balanced draft, but I saw no real can't miss stud type players outside the top 2.

Ofcourse you guys aren't gonna agree with me, you people would have taken love at #1 if you had the chance lol.

It completely matters when it was written! That's like using blogs prior to the 2003 draft that said LeBron was going to be a bust and use that as evidence. That makes absolutely NO sense.

And for what it's worth, I would not have taken Love 1st. I would have taken him 3rd. Which is exactly where he ended up being as far as rookie efficiency this year. As far as careers go, I had him 3rd before the season behind Beasley and Rose but I think I might put him 4th with Lopez ahead of him now based on the strength of Lopez's rookie season.

It's funny how all you do is put words in my mouth and then complain that when I basically quote you that I'm putting words in yours.

theuuord
04-26-2009, 12:36 PM
There is nothing wrong with me using per minute stats here herb, now your just nit picking. I used the last 30 days...not games, read. I figured since they were both out of contention, they would get plenty of minutes, and they did.

It was more to compare his stats to randolph fairly, since he didn't play much until late in the season. And I also wanted show how Love brings absolutely nothing to the defensive end besides his rebounding.


Grasping for straws is having a circle jerk over Kevin Loves pretty good, not great rookie season and talking him up like he's the next Moses Malone.

Again, outstanding. Calling me a herb makes your point that much stronger. Keep doing it, you'll definitely get your point across.

And only 30 days instead of 30 games!? thanks for making my point stronger, actually, by making the sample size smaller. The amount of random fluctuation that can occur over 30 days especially in rookies is so variant that those stats mean little to nothing.

To use per-minute stats for 30 days to prove that Love doesn't bring anything besides rebounding to the defensive end is to show that you have absolutely no idea how to assess defense. It's okay, most of us don't, but then again most of us are smarter than that in the first place.

And per-minute stats don't make sense at ALL here, considering that Randolph played for the fastest-paced team in the league (98 possessions per game) and Love played for a team that had the 15th-fastest pace in the game (91 possessions, the middle of the pack). You have to adjust for these things or the already wildly fluctuating stats are even moreso.

harlequin018
04-26-2009, 12:48 PM
NBA league pass...get to know it.

I know he can pass, I've seen it. I still don't think he should have been picked that high, and in a good draft, he wouldn't have been. I almost wish he would have been picked later, maybe I would give him more respect. He would have been a steal at 26.

And considering Lebron is taller than Love...maybe you should count him as a big man, just a thought.

Love is 6'10" and LeBron is 6'8", but none of that has anything to do with them being big men or not. A "big man" plays in the paint, and LeBron clearly doesn't.

Additionally, your ignorant racist comments really have no place here. Not only do you have zero idea what you're talking about (2008 draft was weak? What?), you're damn offensive about it to boot.

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 03:04 PM
What's the point of bringing up race in the first place?:confused:

I brought it up so long ago in this room, I forgot why lol. I made a comment that people took the wrong way, and they ran with it and blew it way out of proportion. You can go back and read if you really want to know, I'm personally sick of repeating myself 10,000 times in here to a bunch of dense kids, itching to call some1 out in a fkn T-wolve thread:rolleyes:

Could what I said come off as somewhat ignorant, absolutely.

Was there some truth and validity to the point I was making, absolutely.

Kevin Love is awesome...he's the next Moses Malone/Bill Walton:clap:

Great Job!

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 03:16 PM
He has to, the post padder has nothing else to say. :laugh2:

...Says the guy who called the Lakers the most overhyped basketball team in the last 10 years :crazy:

Only to reduce that year total to 7 years (in his next post) after he was reminded of their three peat during that 10 year period.

This guy is your typical PSD big market sports HATER.

What a joke this guy is...A timberwolve fan, dissing a team with the best player on the planet with loads of playoff success, yet he feels like he has room to call them overhyped???

Unreal.

WSU Tony
04-26-2009, 03:23 PM
Could what I said come off as somewhat ignorant, absolutely.

Was there some truth and validity to the point I was making, absolutely.



If you would fill us in with that validity you wouldn't look so foolish.

For the hype the Lakers have gotten the past 10 years they should be winning it all every other year.... Seriously, beyond the Lakers and Celtics ESPN has nothing else to talk about, apparently.

Bloop's Validity (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355948)

WSU Tony
04-26-2009, 03:34 PM
...Says the guy who called the Lakers the most overhyped basketball team in the last 10 years :crazy:

Only to reduce that year total to 7 years (in his next post) after he was reminded of their three peat during that 10 year period.


Unreal.

Yep, I was off by 3 years. For the publicity ESPN gives them they should have another 2-3 championships since then, don't you think? Not everything is black or white.


Unreal is pulling the race card into every convenient argument.

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 04:26 PM
Speaking of putting words in someone's mouth... when did I ever call you racist? Reverse racism is like the ugliest phrase in existence. I don't play that "card" because there's no such thing.

1) I'm not sure how your first comment contradicts anything I said.

2) I already told you why that was wrong. Love had been in the top 3 on draft boards all night. A lot of people (including myself) had him ranked more highly than Mayo on their draft boards (and still do). People were crediting McHale for a genius move at the time. Look at Bill Simmons's writeup after the draft on it.

And please don't say you said those things in tongue in cheek fashion after you've spent like 50 posts trying to defend them. It kills your already dead credibility.


Reverse racism is like the ugliest phrase in existence. I don't play that "card" because there's no such thing.

While "Reverse Racism" is clearly not the "ugliest" phrase in existance (you can bring the drama down a notch or two) I will agree with you the really is no such thing...also forgive me for forgetting all the many tough years whites endured harsh racism in America lol;) I totally understand why you would loathe such a phrase.

Also, I will absolutely say those things in tongue and cheek fashion, b/c I mean no malice when I say them, and have no problem defending the politically incorrect truths in them...I thought atleast one person would kind of understand where I was coming from, but I am in the Midwest...and by the looks of it, comments about race are just not tollerated...who knew?


There are is plenty of truths to the things I said regarding race, you (epecially) came late to the party with a lot to say, not bothering to read all my prior posts to see where I was coming from.

I get it, you can't handle it when some1 drops the politically incorrect bomb on your head.

Some White people (not all) love watching another white person excell at a sport dominated by black people, the same way some black people like watching a black athlete excell in a sport dominated by white people.

Example 1: Tiger Woods ripping **** up in golf.

Example 2: Steve Nash winning b2b MVP awards.

Thats the only point I was trying to make...apparently my comments were just to much to handle for a few guys, so they busted out the pick forks and torches.

Back to Love...I think we need a lil more Love in this room b4 it finally gets closed, don't you think?...I can't blame the mods in here for leavin this crap open, when was the last time a T-wolve thread got this much play..."KG trade gift" to Boston maybe???

Alot of people felt Love could either be a bust or great pick, I personally think he will fall somewhere in the middle, and become a servicable player who shows occasional flashes of brilliance. I question his longevity in the league and see him as role player type, not an allstar.

If that draft wasn't so guard heavy, he would have slipped. Thanks to Mchale he became #3 pick. I had him at #8 b/c I don't think he can defend athletic bigs in the NBA effectively...What can I say, I grew up watching Knick teams who played defense, so I put a premium on it. And I understand why some T-Wolve fans would look past his defensive shortcomings, aside from KG when was the last time they had a guy who actually played D...Sam Mitchell??? ;)

For the record, I choose not to read Bill Simmons...I don't enjoy his New England biased style of sports writing thank you.

I choose to listen more to NBA players when it comes to who can cut it in the league or not...Gary Payton thought he had "overrated' written all over his face when they drafted him as I. And to his credit he certainly had a very representitive year rebounding wise and surprised alot of people. Nobody really thought he would rebound so efficiently and effectively, so much so you got guys on the PSD and started making 2, 3 threads about his rebounding prowess:rolleyes:lol which I find a little over the top...but what else are you Minnesotans gonna talk about in here, Joe Mauer Sacroiliac joint and his eventual defection to the Red Sox???? So I understand. That was a Joke.

You guys can always start another "how amazing is Adrian Peterson" thread


***for the record, sorry If I accused you of calling me racist if you didn't, I might have lost track with the 4-5 people I'm arguing with...you could have implied it tho lol.

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 04:36 PM
It completely matters when it was written! That's like using blogs prior to the 2003 draft that said LeBron was going to be a bust and use that as evidence. That makes absolutely NO sense.

And for what it's worth, I would not have taken Love 1st. I would have taken him 3rd. Which is exactly where he ended up being as far as rookie efficiency this year. As far as careers go, I had him 3rd before the season behind Beasley and Rose but I think I might put him 4th with Lopez ahead of him now based on the strength of Lopez's rookie season.

It's funny how all you do is put words in my mouth and then complain that when I basically quote you that I'm putting words in yours.

That blog was written b4 the draft, true. Its relevant b/c it illustrated that some people thought the draft was thin outside the top two. When I looked at b4 and after, I saw no complete hands down franchise tag players.

The closest thing to it was rose, and his perimeter game was regarded as suspect. Beasley's defense and character were red flags...and they went 1,2. Every player in that draft from pick one on had question marks.

It wasn't a draft filled with build around type guys, thats a fact.

People are saying this years draft will be weak...are they wrong? who knows, but it looks a little weak to me...catch my drift now sport?

AngHellic
04-26-2009, 04:43 PM
I brought it up so long ago in this room, I forgot why lol. I made a comment that people took the wrong way, and they ran with it and blew it way out of proportion. You can go back and read if you really want to know, I'm personally sick of repeating myself 10,000 times in here to a bunch of dense kids, itching to call some1 out in a fkn T-wolve thread:rolleyes:

Could what I said come off as somewhat ignorant, absolutely.

Was there some truth and validity to the point I was making, absolutely.

Kevin Love is awesome...he's the next Moses Malone/Bill Walton:clap:

Great Job!

I read everything u said b4 I posted. The problem is there was no reason to bring it up. I don't have to type a giant paragraph to argue that. It's that simple.

Hawkeye15
04-26-2009, 04:46 PM
moderator, please close this thread, it has outlived its purpose. Thank you

AngHellic
04-26-2009, 04:49 PM
moderator, please close this thread, it has outlived its purpose. Thank you

I was wonderin y this was like the #1 thread in here. Lol. Good call homie. :clap:

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 04:50 PM
Again, outstanding. Calling me a herb makes your point that much stronger. Keep doing it, you'll definitely get your point across.

And only 30 days instead of 30 games!? thanks for making my point stronger, actually, by making the sample size smaller. The amount of random fluctuation that can occur over 30 days especially in rookies is so variant that those stats mean little to nothing.

To use per-minute stats for 30 days to prove that Love doesn't bring anything besides rebounding to the defensive end is to show that you have absolutely no idea how to assess defense. It's okay, most of us don't, but then again most of us are smarter than that in the first place.

And per-minute stats don't make sense at ALL here, considering that Randolph played for the fastest-paced team in the league (98 possessions per game) and Love played for a team that had the 15th-fastest pace in the game (91 possessions, the middle of the pack). You have to adjust for these things or the already wildly fluctuating stats are even moreso.

Maybe I wouldn't have called you a herb if you didn't come at me out of left field calling it dumb for wanting Anthony Randolph over your boy. Don't bark up some1's tree with an attitude and expect nothing less in return.

I don't see anything wrong with using the final month as a barometer. I wasn't trying to break down they're stats that deeply, I just wanted to show what both of them bring to the table. ofcourse the sample size was gonna be small, they're both rooks and Randolph hardly played until the last month and half. By then they were both settled in their respective rotations and I thought I'd size their games up with a 30 day sample size. You can break down their avg's all you want, but the fact of the matter is they both rebound at high clips, both don't have polished offensive games, both display scoring touches, but one fills defensive stat lines.

Thats all...but if you wanna keep nit picking everything, go ahead.

Randolph will be the better pro when its all said and done.

theuuord
04-26-2009, 04:51 PM
While "Reverse Racism" is clearly not the "ugliest" phrase in existance (you can bring the drama down a notch or two) I will agree with you the really is no such thing...also forgive me for forgetting all the many tough years whites endured harsh racism in America lol;) I totally understand why you would loathe such a phrase.

First of all, I don't understand what point you're trying to get across here. Because I agree with you that whites have never endured what true racism is in America and will never understand the feeling that goes along with it. and that reverse racism is a ridiculous notion because it's an excuse for white people to whine and moan when anything doesn't go their way.


Also, I will absolutely say those things in tongue and cheek fashion, b/c I mean no malice when I say them, and have no problem defending the politically incorrect truths in them...I thought atleast one person would kind of understand where I was coming from, but I am in the Midwest...and by the looks of it, comments about race are just not tollerated...who knew?


There are is plenty of truths to the things I said regarding race, you (epecially) came late to the party with a lot to say, not bothering to read all my prior posts to see where I was coming from.

And you're the one who's dumb enough to think i disagreed with you about the racial problem in America. I'm not. I just think you're stretching it to fit your reasons why Kevin Love is considered good. I think he's the third best rookie in his class (maybe 4th) and that's purely on objective analysis.

People don't think Larry Bird was a great player because he was white. They think he was a great player because he actually was a great player. Now before you twist this, I'm not saying Love is even close to Bird (he's not). But I am saying that when people judge basketball ability, they judge based upon actual ability first.


I get it, you can't handle it when some1 drops the politically incorrect bomb on your head.

Some White people (not all) love watching another white person excell at a sport dominated by black people, the same way some black people like watching a black athlete excell in a sport dominated by white people.

Example 1: Tiger Woods ripping **** up in golf.

Example 2: Steve Nash winning b2b MVP awards.

Again, who the hell is disagreeing with you here? I'm not. I agree. I'm an Armenian American. If an Armenian broke into the NBA you'd better believe I'd follow him every game.
The difference is that even if I like him, I wouldn't rate an Armenian as a very good rookie if he didn't deserve it.

Like I said, I have no ethnic or geographic connection to Love. I have no reason to like him more than any other basketball player. He just happens to be ridiculously efficient as a player. That's what I'm saying.


Thats the only point I was trying to make...apparently my comments were just to much to handle for a few guys, so they busted out the pick forks and torches.

Back to Love...I think we need a lil more Love in this room b4 it finally gets closed, don't you think?...I can't blame the mods in here for leavin this crap open, when was the last time a T-wolve thread got this much play..."KG trade gift" to Boston maybe???

Alot of people felt Love could either be a bust or great pick, I personally think he will fall somewhere in the middle, and become a servicable player who shows occasional flashes of brilliance. I question his longevity in the league and see him as role player type, not an allstar.

If that draft wasn't so guard heavy, he would have slipped. Thanks to Mchale he became #3 pick. I had him at #8 b/c I don't think he can defend athletic bigs in the NBA effectively...What can I say, I grew up watching Knick teams who played defense, so I put a premium on it. And I understand why some T-Wolve fans would look past his defensive shortcomings, aside from KG when was the last time they had a guy who actually played D...Sam Mitchell??? ;)

Maybe YOU had him at 8. Most mocks had him in the 3-5 range. which is exactly where he went. That had nothing to do with McHale.

And for what it's worth, the Knick teams that played defense were great teams. But they never won the championship. They lost to the more efficient offensive teams every single year. So maybe premium defense isn't as important as you're making it out to be.



For the record, I choose not to read Bill Simmons...I don't enjoy his New England biased style of sports writing thank you.

I choose to listen more to NBA players when it comes to who can cut it in the league or not...Gary Payton thought he had "overrated' written all over his face when they drafted him as I. And to his credit he certainly had a very representitive year rebounding wise and surprised alot of people. Nobody really thought he would rebound so efficiently and effectively, so much so you got guys on the PSD and started making 2, 3 threads about his rebounding prowess:rolleyes:lol which I find a little over the top...but what else are you Minnesotans gonna talk about in here, Joe Mauer Sacroiliac joint and his eventual defection to the Red Sox???? So I understand. That was a Joke.

You guys can always start another "how amazing is Adrian Peterson" thread

Uhhhhh, most people DID think he would be a great rebounder, because that's what he was in college. He didn't surprise most people, he performed as most people expected him to.
Also a lot of NBA players are horrible analysts because they see things through their own personal lens. It's easy to act as if you have more ability to rate efficiency when you're inside the game, but a lot of times that isn't the case.

And for the MILLIONTH time. I'm not from Minnesota. I haven't been TO Minnesota since I was 10 years old. I don't plan on going back for a while. I don't care about Minnesota. I have no family in Minnesota. I have no friends in Minnesota. I root against Minnesota whenever they play my team, but otherwise, I have no preference as to how they do. Minnesota means nothing to me.
I'm talking about Love strictly from a basketball standpoint. As I have this entire time.
Which you, for some reason, can't seem to figure out.



***for the record, sorry If I accused you of calling me racist if you didn't, I might have lost track with the 4-5 people I'm arguing with...you could have implied it tho lol.

I haven't, because you're not a racist. Your statements on racism have a lot of merit in the social world we live in. But like I said, you're really stretching it to fit your own parameters in the basketball world.

theuuord
04-26-2009, 04:55 PM
That blog was written b4 the draft, true. Its relevant b/c it illustrated that some people thought the draft was thin outside the top two. When I looked at b4 and after, I saw no complete hands down franchise tag players.

The closest thing to it was rose, and his perimeter game was regarded as suspect. Beasley's defense and character were red flags...and they went 1,2. Every player in that draft from pick one on had question marks.

It wasn't a draft filled with build around type guys, thats a fact.

People are saying this years draft will be weak...are they wrong? who knows, but it looks a little weak to me...catch my drift now sport?

First of all, I again don't know who you're calling "sport." I'm not Jay and you're not Kay and this isn't Men In Black. I'm a man, as are you, and it makes you look ridiculous.

And this post is literally nonsensical. Nothing you wrote actually means anything. Rose is looking like a cornerstone. As is Lopez. Beasley could definitely get there with the minutes. Westbrook is a huge rock in the Oklahoma franchise. Same with Love in Minnesota. and Mayo in Memphis. And that's just the top level. The next level of rookies had a ton of players who provided strong contributions in their minutes. Augustin. Bayless. Anderson. Chalmers. Thompson. Gasol. Arthur. All excellent production from a rookie class.

Hell, this draft has had more productive rookies than any draft in a long, long time.

theuuord
04-26-2009, 05:00 PM
Maybe I wouldn't have called you a herb if you didn't come at me out of left field calling it dumb for wanting Anthony Randolph over your boy. Don't bark up some1's tree with an attitude and expect nothing less in return.

I don't see anything wrong with using the final month as a barometer. I wasn't trying to break down they're stats that deeply, I just wanted to show what both of them bring to the table. ofcourse the sample size was gonna be small, they're both rooks and Randolph hardly played until the last month and half. By then they were both settled in their respective rotations and I thought I'd size their games up with a 30 day sample size. You can break down their avg's all you want, but the fact of the matter is they both rebound at high clips, both don't have polished offensive games, both display scoring touches, but one fills defensive stat lines.

Thats all...but if you wanna keep nit picking everything, go ahead.

Randolph will be the better pro when its all said and done.

I'm calling your argument dumb because it is dumb. you're basing your entire argument on a month-long sample size when both teams were well out of contention. You're calling me a herb because I'm calling you out on being dumb.
How do you not see how dumb that argument is?

Randolph was a horrible shooter in college who turned over the ball more frequently than any other PF in his class. He had flashes of greatness and way more stretches of nothingness this season.


Also.

I don't know how many times I have to say this to explain it to you.

Maybe six.
In BOLD.

here we go:

I don't care about Kevin Love.

I don't care about Kevin Love.

I don't care about Kevin Love.

I don't care about Kevin Love.

I don't care about Kevin Love.

I don't care about Kevin Love.


Got it?

I have NO personal connection to how well he plays. I don't wish for him to become a great player. I'm not a Minnesota fan.

What I AM is a person who recognizes excellent production and respects a realistic thorough analysis of players. Love is one of those players who has produced very well for his rookie season. And I'm not saying that because I "love" him, I'm saying that because that's what the facts show.

They do not show the same for Anthony Randolph, and they never have. Love has been more efficient at both the college and the NBA level.

Got it?

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 05:12 PM
Love is 6'10" and LeBron is 6'8", but none of that has anything to do with them being big men or not. A "big man" plays in the paint, and LeBron clearly doesn't.

Additionally, your ignorant racist comments really have no place here. Not only do you have zero idea what you're talking about (2008 draft was weak? What?), you're damn offensive about it to boot.



Kevin Love is is barely 6-8 without shoes...Guess I'm the only one in here who knows that college teams add two inches to their biggs and the NBA takes one of those inches away once you get drafted.

Bottom line is he's not a legit 6-10.


Additionally, your ignorant racist comments really have no place here. Not only do you have zero idea what you're talking about (2008 draft was weak? What?), you're damn offensive about it to boot.


lol dude I get it, chillax, If you think what I said was that racist, then you have never dealt with any real racism. I wonder how many quasi-racist remarks you and the rest of these clowns have said in your lifetimes?lol. I would never make a big deal out something this petty just to sound righteous.


The 2008 draft was filled with great role players...thats what I meant by weak.

...maybe that, and all my prior explaining this will finally hammer it home for you...I'm not holding my breath tho.

WSU Tony
04-26-2009, 05:17 PM
A thread made to show people Love is better than the lack of media coverage would suggest turns into a white vs black comment because MrBloop has decided to pull the race card. Great. Thread closed.

AngHellic
04-26-2009, 05:22 PM
A thread made to show people Love is better than the lack of media coverage would suggest turns into a white vs black comment because MrBloop has decided to pull the race card. Great. Thread closed.

Yeah. That's a shame.

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 05:36 PM
If you would fill us in with that validity you wouldn't look so foolish.

For the hype the Lakers have gotten the past 10 years they should be winning it all every other year.... Seriously, beyond the Lakers and Celtics ESPN has nothing else to talk about, apparently.

Bloop's Validity (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355948)

Dude, I've tried to explain it to you and the rest of the clan...of psd posters in here;)...that was a joke 2 laugh laugh wink wink.

...But you don't seem to grasp where I'm coming from, I've given examples from pistol pete to tiger woods to earl woods to fkn james woods...nothing seems to strike a politically incorrect chord in anyones brain. Instead people wanna label me a racist and whine about harmless opinion.


For the hype the Lakers have gotten the past 10 years they should be winning it all every other year.... Seriously, beyond the Lakers and Celtics ESPN has nothing else to talk about, apparently.


As for this, I don't know what else to say to you. Your city is filled with teams who have cheap ownership. The parody of football keeps your Vikings competitive (although peterson will be shot by the time he's 28 the way they run him) The Pohlad's don't wanna pay for pitching EVER, and the Wolves are well the Wolves...what do you expect? Your city isn't exactly the SEXY pick the boys and girls at Bristol. Sure I could sit here and talk about the Red Sox bias they display, but how would that look, me being a yank fan, pretty petty right. I could go on about how they jock the pats and you cant forget about BRETT FARVRE, espn's favorite son.

Sure, I coud sit back and ***** about all of it, but its a waste of time. I got Yanks/Knicks/Giants on my mind 247. I hate the Celtics, but the C's are Basketball, just like the Lakers, Knicks and Bulls are...your T-Wolves, not so much.

Instead of wasting your time moaning about teams that are better than yours...don't moan about teams that are better than yours lol. Thats about the only advice I can give you.

And please, can we chill with the "money buys championships" talk, there really is no relevance to it. There are way too many variables in sports to believe in that crap.


As for that cute link you posted with that worthless thread about the really cool guy named Mr. Bloop...Stay Classy!!!!

But it is nice to be thought of either way.

Hawkeye15
04-26-2009, 05:38 PM
the single biggest thing that does translate from college to the next level is rebounding. Who doesn't know that???????
Not one single scout questioned Love's skill level. In fact, his scouting report was, and always will be, that he is a highly skillled player with an off the charts IQ. But, when a player is not a gifted athlete on top of that, they are given a ceiling. Nothing wrong with that. Fact is, many rise above that ceiling
Kevin Love is simply a building block for the Wolves, who have a young franchise player. Mayo, Gordon, Lopez, they all would have been the same thing.
Who cares if he is white? Or black? Or green? The fact is, he led all rookies in PER, rebounds and double doubles (both in a landslide), and chipped in over 11 ppg in limited minutes. He has been called a beast by Dirk Nowitzki, and been given compliments by many opposing coaches. There were a handful of games that went the shot went up, he was blocked out by 2 players. He was the 3rd best rookie this year. Possibly the 2nd. Case closed. What happens in 4 years is of no consequence. This is about this season.

Hawkeye15
04-26-2009, 05:42 PM
money doesn't buy championships. That is a fact. The Knicks, Yankees (who I actually like) spend everything in site, yet nothing.
The Knicks last championship was 1974, before I was born. Their 35 year drought trumps the Wolves current 20 year drought if that puts it in perspective. Per ususal, a NY fan acting like the world revolves around NY sports. Wow. Almost as unusual as a Laker fan pumping up Kobe

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 05:48 PM
Yep, I was off by 3 years. For the publicity ESPN gives them they should have another 2-3 championships since then, don't you think? Not everything is black or white.


Unreal is pulling the race card into every convenient argument.

You were off by a lot more than just years with comment about a franchise (LA) who's jock your team couldn't hold with three hands with you helping out.

Since when does ESPN publicity gaurantee championships...<<see that comment, thats the type of knit picking thats been going on in this thread I'm sick of lol.

When I brought up race in this thread, I was simply saying the huge white fan base in Minnesota would love Kevin Love, not JUST b/c he is white, but b/c he is white and good. (I just don't think he's great like every1 is making him)

Maybe I should have worded it that way...doubt it would've made a diff.

Maybe I got a little carried away at times after people jumped out called me the next david duke, but I can admit my mistakes. But there is plenty of truth to a few of my comments, people just choose not see them.

MrBloop
04-26-2009, 05:56 PM
I read everything u said b4 I posted. The problem is there was no reason to bring it up. I don't have to type a giant paragraph to argue that. It's that simple.

The reason was, I felt like chiming in that Kevin Love being "White" would only help his popularity in a predominantly "White" state, as long as he played well. This core argument of this thread had to do with the popularity contest he felt he got shafted on, so I sprinkled in a little race into the discussion and people bugged out.

I explained myself a few times, and when people heard something they didn't like the discussion snow balled into a race discussion.

AngHellic
04-26-2009, 06:11 PM
The reason was, I felt like chiming in that Kevin Love being "White" would only help his popularity in a predominantly "White" state, as long as he played well. This core argument of this thread had to do with the popularity contest he felt he got shafted on, so I sprinkled in a little race into the discussion and people bugged out.

I explained myself a few times, and when people heard something they didn't like the discussion snow balled into a race discussion.

Like you said homie, "I felt like chiming in that Kevin Love being "White" would only help his popularity in a predominantly "White" state, as long as he played well." It doesn't offend me, but u had to realize it was gonna offend a lot of people when you wrote the ****. It snow balled cause you made it snow. I just had to comment on it. To me, it was kinda funny that you said that. But I'm laughing at you, not with you. U gotta realize that when you pull the race card, nobody's gonna listen to anything else you had to say. All of your valid points, if you had any, are now overshadowed. Good move. :clap:

Hawkeye15
04-26-2009, 06:32 PM
Like you said homie, "I felt like chiming in that Kevin Love being "White" would only help his popularity in a predominantly "White" state, as long as he played well." It doesn't offend me, but u had to realize it was gonna offend a lot of people when you wrote the ****. It snow balled cause you made it snow. I just had to comment on it. To me, it was kinda funny that you said that. But I'm laughing at you, not with you. U gotta realize that when you pull the race card, nobody's gonna listen to anything else you had to say. All of your valid points, if you had any, are now overshadowed. Good move. :clap:

were there valid points?? Other than pointing out that NY sports teams have been around longer and have more money (but still don't win anything), not sure I saw anything in there. Eh, whatevs. It could have been worse. The Wolves could have ended up with that white kid Gallinari. yikes

AngHellic
04-26-2009, 07:05 PM
were there valid points?? Other than pointing out that NY sports teams have been around longer and have more money (but still don't win anything), not sure I saw anything in there. Eh, whatevs. It could have been worse. The Wolves could have ended up with that white kid Gallinari. yikes

That's y I said "all of your valid points, if u had any...." I'm on your side dawg.

Hawkeye15
04-26-2009, 07:10 PM
That's y I said "all of your valid points, if u had any...." I'm on your side dawg.

I know dude. Good luck tonight in Houston

AngHellic
04-26-2009, 07:13 PM
^ Thanx

fresh prince
04-27-2009, 01:44 AM
they are all better than him, like he only avg 11pts on the wolves in which he's the franchise guy, he's wack. eric gordon is a way better player and didnt get clock til january

:clap:

I think Eric Gordon could be the best player in this years Rookie Class..

He is going to be an absolute stud..and the Clipps should be way more competitive next year..

I would have had:

Rose
Gordon
Lopez
Mayo
Love
Westbrook

WSU Tony
04-27-2009, 09:22 AM
:clap:

I think Eric Gordon could be the best player in this years Rookie Class..

He is going to be an absolute stud..

Beyond scoring, what does he do well?

Hawkeye15
04-27-2009, 09:34 AM
Beyond scoring, what does he do well?

nothing. But he will be a very good scorer. He got starters minutes, and showed he could score, but he literally does nothing else. He and Mayo remind me of each other, who both remind me of Ben Gordon

CityofTreez
04-27-2009, 02:19 PM
well, first off, Lopez is a C. But, here we go yet again
Lopez played 5 mpg more, and was a starter on a team that didnt have anyone at his position before the draft, unlike Love's situation
If you want to go by highs, eh, not gonna workLove had a PER of 18.39. Lopez a PER of 17.94
Love had 29 double doubles. Lopez had 18
Love had 120 more free throw attempts in less minutes, meaning he was all over the glass, and used his body
Love was #3 in the entire NBA in offensive rebounds, in limited minutes.
Love was #4 all time for NBA rookies in rebound rate.


Look, I am not going to say that Love is a better player outright than Lopez, but there is no way you can quantify that Lopez had a better season efficency wise.

If you want to say kevin Love got overlooked, eh, not gonna work!

Hawkeye15
04-27-2009, 02:59 PM
If you want to say kevin Love got overlooked, eh, not gonna work!

no, I clearly demonstrated he did get overlooked. Going off one game highs is ridiculous. It takes far more consistency and effort to lead all rookies in total rebounds, offensive rebounds, and double doubles, all by a lot, than to show up for a single game. How that doesn't make sense to you is beyond me.

magichatnumber9
04-27-2009, 03:45 PM
you know I expect to be lied too and mislead by the system. But by some ordinary joe, close this thread

CityofTreez
04-27-2009, 04:15 PM
no, I clearly demonstrated he did get overlooked. Going off one game highs is ridiculous. It takes far more consistency and effort to lead all rookies in total rebounds, offensive rebounds, and double doubles, all by a lot, than to show up for a single game. How that doesn't make sense to you is beyond me.


Did those huge rebounds & double-doubles help the T-Wolves garner a 24-58 record. He didn't help his team win games like the rest.

Going off game highs is ridiculous. Well, tell the NBA Committee that voted for the Rookie of the year or whoever picks the final vote that because that has alot to do with it.

Foget it, he got a lack of votes because he played for the 24-58 T-Wolves, got traded for Mayo, and there was a guy named Derrick Rose who went #1. Anyways, kevin Love is always disappointed, he did get trampled by Joey Dorsey!

Hawkeye15
04-27-2009, 06:32 PM
Did those huge rebounds & double-doubles help the T-Wolves garner a 24-58 record. He didn't help his team win games like the rest.

Going off game highs is ridiculous. Well, tell the NBA Committee that voted for the Rookie of the year or whoever picks the final vote that because that has alot to do with it.

Foget it, he got a lack of votes because he played for the 24-58 T-Wolves, got traded for Mayo, and there was a guy named Derrick Rose who went #1. Anyways, kevin Love is always disappointed, he did get trampled by Joey Dorsey!

um, outside Rose, who I have clearly stated went to a team that leapfrogged 12 teams to get the #1, ie, they didn't belong in the top few picks, and is one season removed from the playoffs with essentially the same roster they had most the year, so Rose can not be credited for their 10 game turnaround if you want to call it that, did any of the other rookies help their teams win more games??????? Beasley?? Eh, Wade was healthy, and the Heat was not a hospital in the middle of trades, and throwing in the towel with 16 games to go this season, so Beas, who started all of 18 games, doesn't get the nod to that win turnaround either.
The NBA committe does not vote for ROY, it is the media. And as America knows, the media has no limit to bias.
And the Dorsey reference shows you haven't watched Love one minute. Where is Joey these days? Oh, thats right. In the D league, while Love is destroying all rookies in power numbers.

Hawkeye15
04-27-2009, 06:38 PM
Wins: before/after

Rose: 41/33 (read above)
Beasley: 15/43 (read above, see:Wade in MVP attempt)
Mayo: 22/24
Westbrook: 20/23
Love: 22/24
Lopez: 34/34

nope. Chicago underachieving horribly last season does not give Rose the credit for their 7 game gain. And Beasley started 18 games, played less than Love. The Heats turnaround is due to their health, and Wade's unreal year in a weak east.
If anything, Al Jefferson missed a ton of games, and Love kept them respectable, and ahead of last years pace.

Hawkeye15
04-27-2009, 06:39 PM
If team improvement is the factor you would like to go on, than Beasley should have won ROY in a runaway.

MrBloop
04-27-2009, 07:48 PM
Like you said homie, "I felt like chiming in that Kevin Love being "White" would only help his popularity in a predominantly "White" state, as long as he played well." It doesn't offend me, but u had to realize it was gonna offend a lot of people when you wrote the ****. It snow balled cause you made it snow. I just had to comment on it. To me, it was kinda funny that you said that. But I'm laughing at you, not with you. U gotta realize that when you pull the race card, nobody's gonna listen to anything else you had to say. All of your valid points, if you had any, are now overshadowed. Good move. :clap:


Dude if you think write for peoples approval on here, your a moron. Just because I mentioned race should have no bearing on the rest of the valid points I raised. The fact that it did, only shows how petty you are, and how quick people on here like to try and jump all over people (with an attitude) at a moments notice. There is a way to disagree with somebody without sounding like an azzhole.

If you think there is no place for race in a sports discussion, your dead wrong...and just for the record, KEVIN LOVE BEING WHITE CAN ONLY HELP HIM ANYWHERE HE GOES IN AMERICA, thats a fact.

I have no problem talking about race, whether its pertaining to sport or otherwise. The fact that my statement about his "popularity" rubs you or anybody the wrong way is ridiculous.

MrBloop
04-27-2009, 07:50 PM
I know dude. Good luck tonight in Houston

You two should to get a room.

MrBloop
04-27-2009, 07:54 PM
were there valid points?? Other than pointing out that NY sports teams have been around longer and have more money (but still don't win anything), not sure I saw anything in there. Eh, whatevs. It could have been worse. The Wolves could have ended up with that white kid Gallinari. yikes

Wait...New York teams don't win anything????

ok there buddy boy.

Hawkeye15
04-27-2009, 08:06 PM
Wait...New York teams don't win anything????

ok there buddy boy.

besides the Yankees 1996-2000 years (and I should tell you, the Yankees are my favorite team by a landslide), what have they done?? Giants, gotcha. bout time. And who else? NY has a storied past, with so much overhype its incredible. I love the city of NY, and I love the Yankees, but the teams get way too much attention for being mediocre at best.

MrBloop
04-27-2009, 08:18 PM
um, outside Rose, who I have clearly stated went to a team that leapfrogged 12 teams to get the #1, ie, they didn't belong in the top few picks, and is one season removed from the playoffs with essentially the same roster they had most the year, so Rose can not be credited for their 10 game turnaround if you want to call it that, did any of the other rookies help their teams win more games??????? Beasley?? Eh, Wade was healthy, and the Heat was not a hospital in the middle of trades, and throwing in the towel with 16 games to go this season, so Beas, who started all of 18 games, doesn't get the nod to that win turnaround either.
The NBA committe does not vote for ROY, it is the media. And as America knows, the media has no limit to bias.
And the Dorsey reference shows you haven't watched Love one minute. Where is Joey these days? Oh, thats right. In the D league, while Love is destroying all rookies in power numbers.

I don't think I've ever seen somebody drool over 9+ rebounds more than this guy^^^^^^^^^

This is a certified bromance in the making.

The one thing you guys don't even think about mentioning, is this kids defense, he's not a good defender at all, and that will be the biggest hurdle he'll face in the league.

You want those extra votes Love...play some fkn defense. Thats why Lopez got more "love" than him. Lopez changes a game in that area, Love doesn't.


You can sit here and break down his rebounding efficiency all you want, but he isn't a good defender...infact neither is Al Jeff (don't be fooled by the blocks, he's a lazy defender) the both of them aren't gonna guard anybody for the next ten years.

Lets take a closer look at his defense shall we...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eziogfe5XSI


That was Coooooooold blooded.

Its been real guys, good talk. I apologize if I offended anybody in here as it was not my intention at all.

Late.

MrBloop
04-27-2009, 08:49 PM
besides the Yankees 1996-2000 years (and I should tell you, the Yankees are my favorite team by a landslide), what have they done?? Giants, gotcha. bout time. And who else? NY has a storied past, with so much overhype its incredible. I love the city of NY, and I love the Yankees, but the teams get way too much attention for being mediocre at best.

1 more thing...

I love how you just discount playoff success that doesn't result in a championship, and how year in and year out our teams are competitive each year. Exclude my knicks lately, but your wolves have historically personified losing since their inception...you really have no room to talk.

I don't see many banners hanging in your town.

No city in the country has had more success sports wise as a whole, than NY.

You and that other dude are really hung up on how "overhyped" things are, why? it is what it is, big markets get more attention...just sounds like a lot of jealousy to me...not saying you are, but thats what it sounds like.

We have always had the best rivalries in new york, and people are intrigued when win and it seems like their even more intrigued when we lose.

There is just a massive anti-NY bias in this country when it comes to sports. I understand exactly where it comes from, its a product of not living in NY, thats all it is. I love the hate. I loved the hate when we were winning championships in the 90's (with the highest payroll aside from 98, we were third) I loved it when we were making the playoffs and falling short of winning it all, I loved it last year when people were salivating at the prospect of us missing the playoffs for the first time since 95.

I loved how people would hate on the knicks and call us a bunch of thugs on the court in the 90's, or even better, when non-bulls fans had the nerve to talk crap when we played them harder than any team in the league during their championship run.

No offense to you or your city, but pretty much every one of my cities teams has had way more success than any of your teams...you can double check, but I'm pretty sure I'm dead on...maybe not the Jets, but atleast they won a chip. If I'm not mistaken your vikes are 0-3 or 0-4 in the big show, I'm to lazy to look it up.

In order to talk, you usually need room to talk...thats my opinion.

Hey at least we can agree on loving the Yanks.

Hawkeye15
04-27-2009, 08:52 PM
I love how you just discount playoff success, and how year in and year out our teams are competitive each year. (exclude my knicks lately)

I don't see many banners hanging in your town.

No city in the country has had more success sports wise as a whole, than NY.

You and that other dude are really hung up on how "overhyped" things are, why? it is what it is, big markets get more attention...just sounds like a lot of jealousy to me...not saying you are, but thats what it sounds like.

We have always had the best rivalries in new york, and people are intrigued when win and it seems like their even more intrigued when we lose.

There is just a massive anti-NY bias in this country when it comes to sports. I understand exactly where it comes from, its a product of not living in NY, thats all it is. I love the hate. I loved the hate when we were winning championships in the 90's (with the highest payroll aside from 98, we were third) I loved it when we were making the playoffs and falling short of winning it all, I loved it last year when people were salivating at the prospect of us missing the playoffs for the first time since 95.

I loved how people would hate on the knicks and call us a bunch of thugs on the court in the 90's, or even better, when non-bulls fans had the nerve to talk crap when we played them harder than any team in the league during their championship run.

No offense to you or your city, but pretty much every one of my cities teams has had way more success than any of your teams...you can double check, but I'm pretty sure I'm dead on...maybe not the Jets, but atleast they won a chip. If I'm not mistaken your vikes are 0-3 or 0-4 in the big show, I'm to lazy to look it up.

In order to talk, you usually need room to talk...thats my opinion.

Hey at least we can agree on loving the Yanks.

you play the victim very well. And you're basketball knowledge needs a lot of work. But, someday, you may realize that professional sports, and all sorts of life, do live outside the New York metro area. Not a Vikes fan.
Thank you for playing

CityofTreez
04-28-2009, 01:15 PM
um, outside Rose, who I have clearly stated went to a team that leapfrogged 12 teams to get the #1, ie, they didn't belong in the top few picks, and is one season removed from the playoffs with essentially the same roster they had most the year, so Rose can not be credited for their 10 game turnaround if you want to call it that, did any of the other rookies help their teams win more games??????? Beasley?? Eh, Wade was healthy, and the Heat was not a hospital in the middle of trades, and throwing in the towel with 16 games to go this season, so Beas, who started all of 18 games, doesn't get the nod to that win turnaround either.
The NBA committe does not vote for ROY, it is the media. And as America knows, the media has no limit to bias. And the Dorsey reference shows you haven't watched Love one minute. Where is Joey these days? Oh, thats right. In the D league, while Love is destroying all rookies in power numbers.

You just answered your own argument. The media didn't think Love proved to be ROY. Second, I remeber Joey Dorsey abusing Kevin Love in the Final Four game. What, UCLA didn't get smashed. Yeah, Dorsey is on the bench for the Houston Rockets, at least he's he's not at home watching Derrick Rose light up the field and winning the ROY award for his 1st playoff appearance. God, u sound pathetic reppin a player on the T-Wolves that won 24 games, and Kevin Love won all of them, huh?

DrDEADalready
04-28-2009, 02:01 PM
:cry: me a river. go on and just... :cry: me a river.

MrBloop
04-28-2009, 02:04 PM
you play the victim very well. And you're basketball knowledge needs a lot of work. But, someday, you may realize that professional sports, and all sorts of life, do live outside the New York metro area. Not a Vikes fan.
Thank you for playing

I'm playing the victim here, yet you WSU tony, an the rest of these clowns (excluding a few) are crying about the "NY MEDIA BIAS and SPORTS BIASES IN GENERAL" :rolleyes::rolleyes:

You have gone on and on bout a guy (Kevin Love) who's been the victim of playing on a terrible team, with little media coverage, who put up very good rebounding numbers, yet brought absolutely nothing to the defensive side of the ball.

Parading his rebound stats when thats all he really did, shows your clearly reaching in your quest prove he should have gotten more votes than Lopez when he clearly had more of an impact...ESPECIALLY ON DEFENSE!!!!!!!!

That alone sealed his fate.

The writers were dead on. You can sugar coat this guys overall stats by mentioning how efficient he was in one category, mention his basketball IQ 75 times, and give some whinny story about how him being white and slow never stopped him from being a very good college player.

As representative of year he had (rebounding) Writers routinely punish big men (especially) who play a lick of defense...like your boy.

The fact you and Love can't grasp why he DIDN'T garner more attention is as funny as it is pathetic. But as long as you sleep well at night thinking its the medias fault, thats really all that matters right????

...Right WSU Tony?

But I'm the one playing the victim????:rolleyes::eyebrow:

Unreal.



*As for me not caring or knowing about professional sports outside of NY, I couldn't disagree with you more. Just know this is the closest I will ever come caring about anything sports related in Minnesota, thats for sure. I'm a loyal NY sports fan who respects all teams who have strong traditions of winning and being competitive. I also don't even care about accolades like ROY in sports, I care about my team winning championships. I'm sure you n the boys, pulled this same whinny bit about Al Jeff not making the allstar team...but once again, DEFENSE and team success played a role ;) though I will say, he had a much stronger case than Love.


...Fake *** bandwagon Yank fan lol gimme a break...I'm outta here.

MrBloop
04-28-2009, 02:08 PM
um, outside Rose, who I have clearly stated went to a team that leapfrogged 12 teams to get the #1, ie, they didn't belong in the top few picks, and is one season removed from the playoffs with essentially the same roster they had most the year, so Rose can not be credited for their 10 game turnaround if you want to call it that, did any of the other rookies help their teams win more games??????? Beasley?? Eh, Wade was healthy, and the Heat was not a hospital in the middle of trades, and throwing in the towel with 16 games to go this season, so Beas, who started all of 18 games, doesn't get the nod to that win turnaround either.
The NBA committe does not vote for ROY, it is the media. And as America knows, the media has no limit to bias.
And the Dorsey reference shows you haven't watched Love one minute. Where is Joey these days? Oh, thats right. In the D league, while Love is destroying all rookies in power numbers.

Would you like some cheese with your whine???

ryguy2k7
04-28-2009, 02:15 PM
Fact of the matter is...

Love deserved more recognition, but the ROY award doesn't mean a player is going to be better than the others in the future and as a career.

This year is in THE PAST and all every player that is not in the playoffs should give a **** about is doing amazing next year with a better crop of players around him.

Being a Wolves fan, let's hope that happens with Mr. Love.

vdv36
04-28-2009, 02:19 PM
2008-09 T-Mobile Rookie of the Year Award Voting


Player (Team) Votes: 1st place 2nd place 3rd place Total
Derrick Rose (Bulls) 111 5 4 574
O.J. Mayo (Grizzlies) 5 64 29 246
Brook Lopez (Nets) 2 28 33 127
Russell Westbrook (Thunder) 2 13 24 73
Eric Gordon (Clippers) - 4 10 22
Kevin Love (Timberwolves) - 2 10 16
Michael Beasley (Heat) - 2 1 7
Marc Gasol (Grizzlies) - 1 1 4
Robin Lopez (Suns) - 1 - 3
Rudy Fernandez (Trail Blazers) - - 3 3
Mario Chalmers (Heat) - - 2 2
Courtney Lee (Magic) - - 2 2
Nicolas Batum (Trail Blazers) - - 1 1


:laugh2:

MrBloop
04-28-2009, 02:25 PM
You just answered your own argument. The media didn't think Love proved to be ROY. Second, I remeber Joey Dorsey abusing Kevin Love in the Final Four game. What, UCLA didn't get smashed. Yeah, Dorsey is on the bench for the Houston Rockets, at least he's he's not at home watching Derrick Rose light up the field and winning the ROY award for his 1st playoff appearance. God, u sound pathetic reppin a player on the T-Wolves that won 24 games, and Kevin Love won all of them, huh?

Jeez, Imagine how competitive they would have been if Foye didn't go nuts in the 2nd half????

I said it b4, I don't think I've ever witnessed a group of people trump 9+ rebounds this hard in my damn life.

And this guy hawkeye still won't acknowledge he plays no D which I find comical.

Its obvious the writers went for more COMPLETE rookie seasons when they were mulling over the candidates...I mean I get this...but W/E.


This dead horse cannot be beat anymore...if anything my race comments earlier gave this thread a little life and color...no pun intended.;)

CityofTreez
04-28-2009, 02:43 PM
I'm playing the victim here, yet you WSU tony, an the rest of these clowns (excluding a few) are crying about the "NY MEDIA BIAS and SPORTS BIASES IN GENERAL" :rolleyes::rolleyes:

You have gone on and on bout a guy (Kevin Love) who's been the victim of playing on a terrible team, with little media coverage, who put up very good rebounding numbers, yet brought absolutely nothing to the defensive side of the ball.
Parading his rebound stats when thats all he really did, shows your clearly reaching in your quest prove he should have gotten more votes than Lopez when he clearly had more of an impact...ESPECIALLY ON DEFENSE!!!!!!!!

That alone sealed his fate.

The writers were dead on. You can sugar coat this guys overall stats by mentioning how efficient he was in one category, mention his basketball IQ 75 times, and give some whinny story about how him being white and slow never stopped him from being a very good college player.

As representative of year he had (rebounding) Writers routinely punish big men (especially) who play a lick of defense...like your boy.

The fact you and Love can't grasp why he DIDN'T garner more attention is as funny as it is pathetic. But as long as you sleep well at night thinking its the medias fault, thats really all that matters right????

...Right WSU Tony?

But I'm the one playing the victim????:rolleyes::eyebrow:

Unreal.



*As for me not caring or knowing about professional sports outside of NY, I couldn't disagree with you more. Just know this is the closest I will ever come caring about anything sports related in Minnesota, thats for sure. I'm a loyal NY sports fan who respects all teams who have strong traditions of winning and being competitive. I also don't even care about accolades like ROY in sports, I care about my team winning championships. I'm sure you n the boys, pulled this same whinny bit about Al Jeff not making the allstar team...but once again, DEFENSE and team success played a role ;) though I will say, he had a much stronger case than Love.


...Fake *** bandwagon Yank fan lol gimme a break...I'm outta here.

David lee did more than kevin Love his rookie season. But wait, since he was a monster on the boards, he deserved the rookie of the year over Chris Paul.

MrBloop
04-28-2009, 03:33 PM
David lee did more than kevin Love his rookie season. But wait, since he was a monster on the boards, he deserved the rookie of the year over Chris Paul.

While I totally agree with your overall stance on Kevin Love, I can't agree with you on him having a better rook year than Lee. Lee hardly played under Larry Brown his rookie year, thats just fact...but than again he wasn't a lotto pick and didn't have nearly the ''Hype'' Love had or the minutes.

His second year however, (with similar minutes per) he had better season than love did this year, in big market, with a team in turmoil and much more media scrutiny.

The funny thing is that he could have put up Kevin Loves numbers if he had the chance his rookie year, and in my opinion his game translates much better in the NBA than Love's as a whole.

Lee's a better defender, and Lee isn't a good defender at all lol, what does that say? I brought up Lee as an example b4 to illustrate he has to at the very least surpass the year Lee had this year or even his 06' or 07' campaigns to even prove his Lotto tag was warranted.

Right now, as a big, he's making Lee look like he should have been a lotto pick.

Lee is a more complete player with just as high a basketball IQ if not higher at this point. (since thats all this guy hawkeye likes to talk about)

So far this is what Kevin Love brings to the table...

-Tenacious rebounding
-High basketball IQ (you know what that means ;))
-A decent set shot (but excellent range for a big)
-The ability to cry about an award he had no shot at winning;).
-Throwing outlet passes
-Strength
-Decent foot work
-Good foul shooter (good at head fakes to get to the line)


This is what I feel he's lacking...

-Perimeter Defense (covering shooters especially)
-Pick and Roll Defense
-The realistic physical tools to become a good defender at the 4 or 5 position
-The ability to get off post moves consistanlty on bigger players
-High shooting percenatge for a big
-Athleticism (esp elevation)
-Shot blocking ability
-Durabilty due to conditioning issues (although he lost weight)
-Using his good footwork for defensive purposes
-Post Defense on taller players

noticing a trend here???

All of his pro's n con's showed this year, resulting in what I feel were fair rookie of the year votes.

Cassidy28
04-28-2009, 04:15 PM
Kevin Love is the man shoulda gotten more votes

fresh prince
04-28-2009, 04:50 PM
Beyond scoring, what does he do well?

Since when did a players 1st year determine his merit or complete game?

I fully expect Eric Gordon to become a better all around player in years to come. That is what I'm basing my he will be a stud proclamation on.

He has the ability to setup his teammates and he also really competes on D.I expect him to improve both of those phases of his game over the next few years. But ultimately your'e right he is a pure scorer more so that Ben Gordon or OJ Mayo IMO.

I'm expecting 23, 4, 5 type numbers from Gordon over the next few years.

Ollie Tabooger
04-28-2009, 04:51 PM
OK. My post WAS stupid. I was drunk. I read the whole 16/10 thing thinking people were talkin bout Min, cause I don't follow them. My bad. From now on I'll post while I'm sober and not talk about **** I don't know about.... Something I tend to do while intoxicated. lol.

:laugh:... wow

theuuord
04-28-2009, 05:00 PM
Since when did a players 1st year determine his merit or complete game?

I fully expect Eric Gordon to become a better all around player in years to come. That is what I'm basing my he will be a stud proclamation on.

He has the ability to setup his teammates and he also really competes on D.I expect him to improve both of those phases of his game over the next few years. But ultimately your'e right he is a pure scorer more so that Ben Gordon or OJ Mayo IMO.

I'm expecting 23, 4, 5 type numbers from Gordon over the next few years.

I would not expect those type of numbers from Gordon, unless you want to set him up for failure.

Hawkeye15
04-28-2009, 05:05 PM
You just answered your own argument. The media didn't think Love proved to be ROY. Second, I remeber Joey Dorsey abusing Kevin Love in the Final Four game. What, UCLA didn't get smashed. Yeah, Dorsey is on the bench for the Houston Rockets, at least he's he's not at home watching Derrick Rose light up the field and winning the ROY award for his 1st playoff appearance. God, u sound pathetic reppin a player on the T-Wolves that won 24 games, and Kevin Love won all of them, huh?

Dorsey is on the Rockets cause his fat ***** couldn't get drafted until late.
And I showed you that the other rookies didn't help their team win, so basing it on that is ricidulous. This isn't about college (in which Love won PAC 10 freshman, and Player of the Year btw), or what kind of player they will become, its about what they did this year. By the way, Dorsey was left off the playoff roster, so he is at home right now recovering from a grueling season of playing time of 6 minutes all season.
Why do I sound pathetic? Please enlighten me. Oh wait, that's right. You dwell on a single college game from over a year ago. Have fun watching highlights of big boy Dorsey. That is all you will ever see of him again.