PDA

View Full Version : Bullpen Pitching



AFitch10
04-08-2009, 06:34 PM
The Braves made big moves in the off season, getting Lowe, Vaz and the guy from Japan. To bad we forgot to get some people in the bullpen. I have never seen 8 runs come without an extra base hit. That pen is terrible. Two questions, 1. Why didnt we resign Ohman when he dominated the Phils last year. 2. Why didnt we trade one good young pitcher to get a good solid bullpen guy. Moylan should be down in the minors to make sure he gets his confidence back and now I know why Seattle got rid of Flahtery. Jaun Cruz was out there as well. Boyer must have been sleeping when he was workin out with Smotlz. Great job Frank cudos for the starters. Oh and Bobby when your starter is shutting down your opponet leave him in there.

soobahk40050
04-08-2009, 06:54 PM
Boyer was credited with the loss. I didn't see most of the game, and he may not have been the one deserving of it, but I have been saying for a long time we need to rid ourselves of him.

AFitch10
04-08-2009, 06:56 PM
I just think Cox is a great manager except when it comes down to the starters and the bullpen. He never lets guys finish period.

lavell12
04-08-2009, 06:57 PM
Even though he was horrible today Moylan should give us no worries. That was the first game in nearly a year for him. He was also bad in his first outing last year and the year before that. Soriano and Gonzo will be fine. Its the middle relievers that are the major problem.

About a solution, I'm not quit sure there is a viable solution. Calling up guys from the minors that got outpitched mby these guys in the spring won't do much to help. I wonder if the Braves would consider using Hanson in the pen in a similiar way the Yanks used Jaba. Except the problem is that Hanson is supposed to be a starter this year and Jaba was being used as a reliever until his second season when he converted to the rotation. I think the Braves will stand pat for a while.

Boyer has to go. Moylan was understandable but Boyer is awful anytime the game is on the line. O'Flaherty honestly is only on the team b/c he is a lefty. I would call up Acosta and release Boyer ASAP.

lavell12
04-08-2009, 06:59 PM
I just think Cox is a great manager except when it comes down to the starters and the bullpen. He never lets guys finish period.

people keep blaming him for this but when every reliever pitches horrible it shows that he had no real options.

BRAVE KID
04-08-2009, 06:59 PM
Boyer was credited with the loss. I didn't see most of the game, and he may not have been the one deserving of it, but I have been saying for a long time we need to rid ourselves of him.would of never had to come in if eric or moylan would of gotten the job done.


I just think Cox is a great manager except when it comes down to the starters and the bullpen. He never lets guys finish period.What are you talking about? "never lets guys finish." did you expect him to leave javy out there or even eric for that matter?

lavell12
04-08-2009, 07:00 PM
Boyer was credited with the loss. I didn't see most of the game, and he may not have been the one deserving of it, but I have been saying for a long time we need to rid ourselves of him.

He came in with the bases loaded and a three run lead at 10-7 and walked in both guys he faced to make it 10-9.

Slash
04-08-2009, 07:01 PM
The bullpen is going to be fine. Again, the Braves' bullpen was the best in the NL at the all star break. They were just over used. So it isn't that Cox can't manage a bullpen.

This game they were just too scared to throw a strike and give up a hit. So they nibbled around the corners and gave up walks. Since the walks narrowed the lead, they were scared to throw strikes. A vicious circle.

Sure would have been nice to bring in The Cobra for a batter or two, huh?

BRAVE KID
04-08-2009, 07:04 PM
expected this kind of thread anyway. It was some freak bad luck, I mean come on eric couldn't throw a strike, neither could moylan, boyer, not even campy who is a strike machine. yea hell of **** up, but that doesn't label the pen horrible already.

some crazy *** luck for the phils, unbelievable.

BRAVE KID
04-08-2009, 07:07 PM
The bullpen is going to be fine. Again, the Braves' bullpen was the best in the NL at the all star break. They were just over used. So it isn't that Cox can't manage a bullpen.

This game they were just too scared to throw a strike and give up a hit. So they nibbled around the corners and gave up walks. Since the walks narrowed the lead, they were scared to throw strikes. A vicious circle.

Sure would have been nice to bring in The Cobra for a batter or two, huh?but then would of given him 3 appearances in 3 games (with a day of rest in between) that's a no no slash:cool:

Slash
04-08-2009, 07:12 PM
but then would of given him 3 appearances in 3 games (with a day of rest in between) that's a no no slash:cool:

Hence, this post http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8984668&postcount=681 and my opinion that bringing Gonzales into 2 games with 4 run leads was a poor decision.

We went into this game with a 24 man roster and no closer.

Braves83
04-08-2009, 07:12 PM
Its just one game everyone. You can't expect the bullpen to be lights out,every game. This is going to happen many times before the season is over. Their will be a time were we will be lights out and games that we will just suck,like today.

10-3 going into the 7th is pathetic tho. To bad we couldn't start the season 3-0,but atleast this takes the pressure off of us. We didn't need ESPN or other media channels saying we are the team to beat.

leftie5
04-08-2009, 07:13 PM
We'll be alright. It was just one of those weird occurences that unfortunately we had to experience. I would have liked to have seen Soriano come in at some time during that inning, but maybe they didn't want to have him pitch on back to back days. Anyway, we know we should be 3-0 and this is one of those losses you look back on at the end of the year and shake your head.

Looks like D Lowe will be starting against the Nats on Friday. Hopefully he can give us some solid innings again.

lavell12
04-08-2009, 07:18 PM
Boyer Bennet and O'Flaherty need to go. Only problem is what are you going to replace them with?

lavell12
04-08-2009, 07:21 PM
The Padres do have a real good pen and maybe looking to move some guys for prospects. Clay Meredith could be a good get.

BRAVE KID
04-08-2009, 07:23 PM
Hence, this post http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8984668&postcount=681 and my opinion that bringing Gonzales into 2 games with 4 run leads was a poor decision.

We went into this game with a 24 man roster and no closer.lol you lucky s.o.b, fortunate enough for you to even bring that argument up. It was a freak poor performance from the pen, not too often you see back to back to back to back relievers unable to throw strikes. I would much rather have gonzo in the first two games to win those games, than have him here to win just this one.

BRAVE KID
04-08-2009, 07:28 PM
Boyer Bennet and O'Flaherty need to go. Only problem is what are you going to replace them with?bennett is the only one I agree with and he is probably going to be sent down once glavine is ready anyway but nonsense with the others. Eric just had a great performance the day before..now it's time to get rid of him..ridiculous statement. and boyer has had a great spring, just didn't seem to have it in his FIRST appearance of the season. Yea it's a bad loss guys but come on restrain from making ignorant statements.

Jacob10
04-08-2009, 07:32 PM
Alright everyone. Stand up, curse violently. Throw something (not living -- exception for neighbors cat). Deep breath, relax.

This is just one of those games that happens once or twice a year. We saw Oflaherty throw a good game the other day. We know what Moylan can do. We know Campillo can throw strikes. Even Boyer, whom many of you hate, is a decent enough pitcher. While this was certainly utterly shocking, it isn't cause to suddenly dump every arm in the bullpen and find new guys. We need to realize that crap happens, and that its behind us now. Our bullpen is pretty good on paper -- this is NOT going to be a regular thing. Its too early to give up all hope.

On top of all of this, as has been pointed out, the Phillies are regularly the luckiest team in baseball. They just are. If craps going to happen, its generally going to happen in their favor.

Its over, we have a home opener to enjoy this weekend. Go Braves!

BRAVE KID
04-08-2009, 07:36 PM
Alright everyone. Stand up, curse violently. Throw something (not living -- exception for neighbors cat). Deep breath, relax.

This is just one of those games that happens once or twice a year. We saw Oflaherty throw a good game the other day. We know what Moylan can do. We know Campillo can throw strikes. Even Boyer, whom many of you hate, is a decent enough pitcher. While this was certainly utterly shocking, it isn't cause to suddenly dump every arm in the bullpen and find new guys. We need to realize that crap happens, and that its behind us now. Our bullpen is pretty good on paper -- this is NOT going to be a regular thing. Its too early to give up all hope.

On top of all of this, as has been pointed out, the Phillies are regularly the luckiest team in baseball. They just are. If craps going to happen, its generally going to happen in their favor.

Its over, we have a home opener to enjoy this weekend. Go Braves!Amen to that statement...especially this one


On top of all of this, as has been pointed out, the Phillies are regularly the luckiest team in baseball. They just are. If craps going to happen, its generally going to happen in their favor.couldn't be so ****in true,at least against us.

Slash
04-08-2009, 07:37 PM
lol you lucky s.o.b, fortunate enough for you to even bring that argument up.

Believe me, I wish I wasn't proven right and the argument stayed theoretical.


It was a freak poor performance from the pen, not too often you see back to back to back to back relievers unable to throw strikes.

Sure. It was a freak occurrence. But you know one of the best known sayings in baseball is "The ball will find you." There was no reason to go into the game without a closer and a 24 man roster. It just happened to bite us this time.


I would much rather have gonzo in the first two games to win those games, than have him here to win just this one.

Again, my point is that we had a 4 run lead and really didn't have much of a reason to bring him in the first game and absolutely no reason to bring him into the second.

Another to think about is that pitch that was obviously a ball that KJ struck out on with the bases loaded. With a 7 run lead I'll bet that no one thought it was a pivotal pitch. One of my favorite sayings is by Sutton "Always play hard because you never know which run you prevent that will win the game and you never know which run that you score will win the game." The ump hosed Johnson twice and the second time probably really cost us.

soobahk40050
04-08-2009, 07:43 PM
Brave Kid -

Yes this is only one loss, but coming off of a season with 26 one run losses, what this one loss indicates is much more meaningful than a fluke. I agree with you that we should not blast our bullpen for just one game, and I am not calling for anyone's head over just one game. I am a strong believer in Moylan, and like you said, Eric did well yesterday. I have often called for Boyer's head and will continue to do so unless he changes dramatically in the next few days. But our bullpen problems have become serious the past couple of years and we need to answer them. Another 26 one run loss season is at risk. I really liked Acosta last year, and still am of the opinion that he should be given a chance ahead of Boyer.

BRAVE KID
04-08-2009, 07:47 PM
Believe me, I wish I wasn't proven right and the argument stayed theoretical.



Sure. It was a freak occurrence. But you know one of the best known sayings in baseball is "The ball will find you." There was no reason to go into the game without a closer and a 24 man roster. It just happened to bite us this time.



Again, my point is that we had a 4 run lead and really didn't have much of a reason to bring him in the first game and absolutely no reason to bring him into the second.
Another to think about is that pitch that was obviously a ball that KJ struck out on with the bases loaded. With a 7 run lead I'll bet that no one thought it was a pivotal pitch. One of my favorite sayings is by Sutton "Always play hard because you never know which run you prevent that will win the game and you never know which run that you score will win the game." The ump hosed Johnson twice and the second time probably really cost us.I do wonder though, what if this performance happened in those two games with just a 4 run lead in 9th and we didn't put in gonzo. would you be singing the same tune? And you're forgetting that gonzo hasn't exactly been a strike machine in his first two appearances, so it's not like he would of been guaranteed to stop the bleeding. I am stopping after this, it is truly pointless to argue something that didn't happen and argue for us winning a series.

ATLKoos16
04-08-2009, 07:47 PM
It was Moylan's first appearance in almost a year. He deserves a break. I didnt get to watch it but from what i can tell Boyer was awful. He needs to get his stuff straight. I personally would like to see him out of here and Kris Medlen in his spot

Jacob10
04-08-2009, 07:48 PM
soobahk -

Our bullpen problems were due to overuse and crippling injuries. We have Soriano, Gonzalez, and Moylan all healthy, and a pitching staff that will take us farther into games.

Again, you all are over blowing this far too much. Relax. If this happens another few times over the next month, then we have serious problems.

NickSC07
04-08-2009, 07:49 PM
Lots of positives from today even though we blew a 7 run lead. McCann, Schafer, & Diaz goin yard was nice to see. Wren might be right, we might have 6 or 7 guys with 20 or more HR. JV settled down and had a nice outing, sucks the bullpen blew it for him but oh well. A sweep of the Nats should take the bad taste out of my mouth from this one game.

BRAVE KID
04-08-2009, 08:03 PM
Brave Kid -

Yes this is only one loss, but coming off of a season with 26 one run losses, what this one loss indicates is much more meaningful than a fluke. I agree with you that we should not blast our bullpen for just one game, and I am not calling for anyone's head over just one game. I am a strong believer in Moylan, and like you said, Eric did well yesterday. I have often called for Boyer's head and will continue to do so unless he changes dramatically in the next few days. But our bullpen problems have become serious the past couple of years and we need to answer them. Another 26 one run loss season is at risk. I really liked Acosta last year, and still am of the opinion that he should be given a chance ahead of Boyer.well we lost moylan, sori and gonzo throughout the majority of the season last year when you lose your top 3 pen arms in a season, or you don't have them throughout the majority of the season, yea more often than not the pen is going to perform badly. the majority of the 1 run losses were also a result of poor offensive production (obviously for this case it isn't but we lost a bunch of close low scoring games).

Also consider the fact that our rotation didn't go deep into games consistently which then taxed our pen quite a bit. so many factors for that pitiful season last year that you just can't blame it on the pen.

I like acosta as well but he really isn't better than boyer in comes of control, that's why he didn't win a spot in the pen, his control has always been questionable.

It isn't much meaningful than a fluke, 4 consecutive relievers (with two of them that have a reputation of throwing the majority that are strikes), and two had a great spring with one already pitching the day before. It's a fluke, nothing more than luck and generosity.

AFitch10
04-08-2009, 08:44 PM
Why didnt we resign Ohman? Thats my point look at what he did to the Phils and all them lefties he dominated. The Braves always seem to keep the wrong guys.

BRAVE KID
04-08-2009, 08:56 PM
Why didnt we resign Ohman? Thats my point look at what he did to the Phils and all them lefties he dominated. The Braves always seem to keep the wrong guys.didn't he reject our offer to him? we wanted him for the longest time, didn't want to come here in my eyes, give the ohman thing a rest he is dodger property now.

Jacob10
04-08-2009, 09:02 PM
Why didnt we resign Ohman? Thats my point look at what he did to the Phils and all them lefties he dominated. The Braves always seem to keep the wrong guys.

Ohman tried to "play" the market and lost big time. We offered him a multiyear contract. He refused it, thinking he could get more. Then the bottom fell out of the market, and the best offer he got was one year and a significant pay drop from the Dodgers.

We tried to get him, but he spurned our offer thinking he could collect a bigger check elsewhere. Its not the Braves' fault that Ohman isn't in our bullpen.

Slash
04-08-2009, 09:45 PM
I do wonder though, what if this performance happened in those two games with just a 4 run lead in 9th and we didn't put in gonzo. would you be singing the same tune? And you're forgetting that gonzo hasn't exactly been a strike machine in his first two appearances, so it's not like he would of been guaranteed to stop the bleeding. I am stopping after this, it is truly pointless to argue something that didn't happen and argue for us winning a series.

Isn't that what you are doing? "Arguing something that didn't happen" by saying "if the first two games were blown?" I'm just pointing out what actually happened.

I'm not arguing that he would have stopped the bleeding.

My point, again, is that by using our closer twice in a row with 4 run leads that gave us a 24 man roster. Using ANY pitcher twice in a row like that keeps him out of the next game. Doing that to our closer is even worse because he is the one guy we count on to get those crucial three outs.

I'm done with this as well because defending my point of view is now coming across as me saying "told you so" and I don't want to do that.

jmtapia
04-08-2009, 09:57 PM
...

jmtapia
04-08-2009, 10:01 PM
The Braves made big moves in the off season, getting Lowe, Vaz and the guy from Japan. To bad we forgot to get some people in the bullpen. I have never seen 8 runs come without an extra base hit. That pen is terrible. Two questions, 1. Why didnt we resign Ohman when he dominated the Phils last year. 2. Why didnt we trade one good young pitcher to get a good solid bullpen guy. Moylan should be down in the minors to make sure he gets his confidence back and now I know why Seattle got rid of Flahtery. Jaun Cruz was out there as well. Boyer must have been sleeping when he was workin out with Smotlz. Great job Frank cudos for the starters. Oh and Bobby when your starter is shutting down your opponet leave him in there.

WHY didnt you bring this up earlier????????? its much easy to start picking on things once they are going wrong.... JUAN Cruz was also a Type A FA... so while we wouldnt have to give up our pick bc its protected there was that restriction. Not sure what he ended up getting but i know that it was rumored he wanted $4 Mill per at one point...not saying we would have given him that much or he would have gotten that much in todays market but im sure the Braves would have been outbid.

Before you start criticizing a team at least know what your talking about that Japanese player your talking about is Kenshin Kawakami.

It doesnt matter if your Starter is shutting someone out...this early in the season you have to keep some type of pitch count to ease their load for later in the season.

All being said the Braves took 2 out of 3 from the World Champs....actually it should have been 3 out of 3 but the Braves beat themselves. At this point im happy with what i see...the Phillies didnt out play us in any of the 3 games and the key to a long season is to keep winning series...

rtgthree
04-08-2009, 11:45 PM
There is literally nothing to be worried about. There is nothing here to criticize O'Flaherty. Solid outing on Tuesday, then this afternoon he gets Victorino to ground out, Utley gets a little bloop hit (which happens), and then a pitch gets away from him after he had Howard 0-2. That stuff just happens.

Boyer and Moylan were making their first appearances, Moylan for the first time in 10 months. Cut them some slack. The bullpen isn't bad...it's just everyone had a bad game at the same time. Jeff Bennett is the one weak(er) link, but he should go to make room for Tommy Glavine in a couple weeks.

BK, I have to side with Slash here. There is absolutely no reason for Mike Gonzalez to have pitched in either of the last two games. He's the best pitcher in the bullpen (supposedly, anyway), so why use him in non-critical situations? Especially when you know he's a guy that can't seem to get the fire going if it's not a save situation. Game 1 was especially stupid...Lowe had thrown 97 pitches and was buzzsawing the Phils' lineup. If nothing else, let the man go for a CG for pride's sake (on a short leash, of course).

bravesrule
04-09-2009, 12:01 AM
i love how it says on the mlb headlines, "Phils look like champs after getting rings". If you ask me, they looked like ****. The only thing they could do is take walks and that isn't exactly hard when i dont even think we got to two strikes on any of the batters we faced in the 7th. And when Cox left Campillo in for the 8th, I was totally freaking out, I dont know why he did that.


But I'm not sold into trading for a reliever just yet until we figure out what Boyer, Moylan, Bennett, etc. can do for us but i know a couple more games like this and i'm going to be really impatient.

Credit everyone on the Braves team for this series though, we played great throughout we just let one slip away at the end. Look for good things against the nationals.

flea
04-09-2009, 01:48 AM
Game 1 was especially stupid...Lowe had thrown 97 pitches and was buzzsawing the Phils' lineup. If nothing else, let the man go for a CG for pride's sake (on a short leash, of course).
I'm with you on the CG pride issue but in this circumstance I can see why Bobby made the right choice. First he had the pitcher spot batting in the 8th, and as we found out today 4 runs often isn't enough to hold down the Phils. Second, they had the 9-1-2 hitters coming up. If Lowe had given up a hit to any of them Gonzalez would have been warming up anyway to face those dangerous lefties. Situations like that can get out of hand quickly and it's a nice luxury having a lefty closer to get some work in on the first day of the season.

jmtapia
04-09-2009, 02:44 AM
When talking about the bullpen the thing that i hate more then over using your bullpen is to get someone up...get them to warm up and then not use them... If you get them up your minus well use them...

Cox knows what he is doing....

uncblue2332
04-09-2009, 08:51 AM
When talking about the bullpen the thing that i hate more then over using your bullpen is to get someone up...get them to warm up and then not use them... If you get them up your minus well use them...

Cox knows what he is doing....

Thats great grammar there bud. The term would be you might as well not minus. haha we got a genius in this forum.

Jacob10
04-09-2009, 09:12 AM
I'm mixed on whether Bobby should have brought in Gonzalez. In the end, I think he made the right move. We all saw yesterday how easily any lead can evaporate. Bobby brought in Mike Gonzalez for a number of reasons:

a) Derek Lowe already did a fantastic job. It would be demoralizing for him to go out in the ninth and blow it. (Then people would be asking for Bobby's head the other way around.)

b) Leads aren't safe. Gonzalez was there to make sure that the Braves got off to a good start.

I do agree that Bobby does not grasp that Gonzalez just can't perform without a pressure situation. However, on paper, I understand why he made the move he did.

Furthermore, its not like we had burned every good reliever we had yesterday -- we still had Soriano in the bullpen didn't we? He might be a better pitcher than Gonzalez.




That's great grammar there bud. The term would be "you might as well" not "minus". Haha we got a genius in this forum.


Your grammar isn't amazing either. I've placed necessary corrections in bold. The point being: don't be a jerk. All of us make mistakes. This topic isn't for that -- its for discussing the bullpen.

baseballislife7
04-09-2009, 10:09 AM
I'm mad as hell for the way our bullpen pitched, just like the rest of you guys. We have to get over it and just hope its one of those days. Eric pitched well one day, he shouldn't have been pitching the next. I believe in a game like today is when we need to bring in Campillo or Buddy. 10-3 lead, bring in the long man w/a day off the next day. Let him pitch the last four innings. We have to long men we need to use them. I'm hoping for a good upcoming series. I'm just glad to see the way our offense is performing.

soobahk40050
04-09-2009, 10:54 AM
Brave Kid - it may have been a fluke, I admit that, but with our recent history I think we are all being reasonably concerned. We play the marlins next, outside of citizens bank's hitter's park. There should be a huge difference in offense, meaning the bullpen may be fine, but our offensive which was supposed to be weak may start having troubles.

Slash - last years bullpen woes were caused by starting pitching and overuse. Obviously three days in a row is a bad thing, but in this case, we had an off day, and had another day off the next day, so we really weren't going in with a 24 man roster.

rtgthree
04-09-2009, 11:10 AM
I'm mad as hell for the way our bullpen pitched, just like the rest of you guys. We have to get over it and just hope its one of those days. Eric pitched well one day, he shouldn't have been pitching the next. I believe in a game like today is when we need to bring in Campillo or Buddy. 10-3 lead, bring in the long man w/a day off the next day. Let him pitch the last four innings. We have to long men we need to use them. I'm hoping for a good upcoming series. I'm just glad to see the way our offense is performing.

I'm definitely with you on this, or at least bring in someone to go three innings. Joe Maddon does this brilliantly, using his relievers for multiple innings and catering their usage patterns to the relievers' own strengths and the situation. I wish Bobby would be more flexible with his usage patterns, because the Braves have so many versatile relievers.

Braves28Herbs7
04-09-2009, 02:15 PM
Ok. Im not going to lie, boyer needs to control himself and he will be a stud and the other guys big deal. We have played 3 games, and we are 2-1 against the defending champs. Why are we complaining? We gave up 8 runs in one inning. big deal. 1 game. Have you guys been watching other baseball games? Such as the yankees is one great example. Look at their pitching. Wang and Sabathia did not do anything. They just need to get warmed up and get ready. And as for Cox not letting people pitch the whole time, im guessing you mean Lowe in game 1. Think for one, why would you want him to pitch the whole game? What happens when in the 9th inning, hes pitching and we are up by 5 runs and he gets injured. Oh then you hate bobby for keeping him in there. Do you also not realize he is pitching again tommorrow? Let him keep his arm.

Brave4life
04-09-2009, 02:30 PM
I say we bring jojo reayes and and tommy hanson up and drop oflaherty and boyer. two solid arms that could help the bullpen alot.
Hanson for closer
Gonzo 8th inning
soriano 7th inning
moylan needs a few weekd he should be taking it wasy

BRAVOFAN13
04-09-2009, 02:38 PM
Get rid of moylan and boyer they have always sucked!!!!!!!bring hanson into the pen!

rtgthree
04-09-2009, 02:38 PM
And as for Cox not letting people pitch the whole time, im guessing you mean Lowe in game 1. Think for one, why would you want him to pitch the whole game? What happens when in the 9th inning, hes pitching and we are up by 5 runs and he gets injured. Oh then you hate bobby for keeping him in there. Do you also not realize he is pitching again tommorrow? Let him keep his arm.

This isn't literally the worst logic I've ever heard, but it's close. What happens when in the 8th inning, he's pitching and we are up by five runs and he gets injured? What happens when in the 5th inning, he's pitching and we are up by five runs and he gets injured?

He had only thrown 97 pitches through the first eight innings, so there's not really any heightened injury risk letting him go back for the ninth. You don't pull your best pitcher when you have a lead just because he might get hurt, especially not when you're only four runs up and he's making the opposition look silly.


I say we bring jojo reayes and and tommy hanson up and drop oflaherty and boyer. two solid arms that could help the bullpen alot.
Hanson for closer
Gonzo 8th inning
soriano 7th inning
moylan needs a few weekd he should be taking it wasy

This is a horrible idea. You've got two guys in Reyes and Hanson who both are looking good as starters. Why waste their talent moving them into relief (unless you really plan to leave them there permanently)? If Hanson relieves this year, and throws, say, 70 innings, then he can't suddenly come back in 2010 and throw 170. Relief pitchers are MUCH easier to find than starters, so if you have guys that have the stamina and the stuff to start, you let them keep doing that.

In addition, why would you want to drop O'Flaherty or Boyer? Both are young, both have great stuff and both have track records of major-league success. Remind me again why we wouldn't want them on the team...

rtgthree
04-09-2009, 02:39 PM
Get rid of moylan and boyer they have always sucked!!!!!!!bring hanson into the pen!

Uh, perhaps you could explain exactly how Moylan and Boyer have "always sucked." Perhaps you could also provide a little insight into why it makes any sense at all to convert a future ace into a relief pitcher....

Slash
04-09-2009, 02:48 PM
Uh, perhaps you could explain exactly how Moylan and Boyer have "always sucked." Perhaps you could also provide a little insight into why it makes any sense at all to convert a future ace into a relief pitcher....

It makes perfect sense. Why use Hanson for 200+ innings a year when we can have him for 80? :)

bravesrule
04-09-2009, 03:43 PM
I agree with rtg. If we wanted to use Hanson as a closer we could trade him for a good closer and still get some extra prospects. To just convert him to a closer and say go get 'em would be stupid.

bravesrule
04-09-2009, 03:44 PM
And to what Bravofan said, I don't even waste my time replying to stuff like that.

ATLKoos16
04-09-2009, 04:00 PM
[QUOTE=BRAVOFAN13;8998928]Get rid of moylan and boyer they have always sucked!!!!!!!bring hanson into the pen![/QUOT

How exactly has Moylan always sucked? He was out all last season but he was the best reliever on the team the year before that. And in Boyers case, he was very good until late in the season last year when he was over used because the starters could not also. Why exectly would you take a future ace who has his arm strecthed out to go many innings at a time and put him in the bullpen. That move could potentially end up hurting his arm and future.

hawksd911
04-09-2009, 10:20 PM
Get rid of moylan and boyer they have always sucked!!!!!!!bring hanson into the pen!

Ok, your not going to make too many friends by saying **** like that on ur first post and by not backing your crap up.:cool:

jmtapia
04-10-2009, 01:36 PM
Hanson wont be turned into a closer unless the Braves get to Mid season and all their starters are healthy and producing....

Way to many things have to go in a certain way for hanson to go to the bullpen....i dont see it happening.

I like what the Braves are doing in letting Hanson go 4-5 Innings to save him for the latter part of the season...

Jon93405
04-10-2009, 02:45 PM
Get rid of moylan and boyer they have always sucked!!!!!!!bring hanson into the pen!

Perhaps the return of BravoJuggernaut?

jmtapia
04-10-2009, 02:49 PM
^^^ oh god no...

TomahawkChopper
04-10-2009, 05:27 PM
And to what Bravofan said, I don't even waste my time replying to stuff like that.

Im sorry but didnt anyone else find that ironic??:D

Joe Smoe
04-10-2009, 06:11 PM
As much as I hated to see the failure of the pen the other day, it does in no way mean that it does not have great potential. To make jumpy moves this early on just because of one inning is pointless and further very foolish. All the greats have days where things just dont work out properly. The Phills had been locked down by great pitching for so long, it was just a matter of time before there bats would warm up.

This is baseball, its a marathon, not a sprint. For a inning the Braves became human. Building a team is a long term investment, and further... won one series at a time. We won our first series of the year. The team built did succeeded versus last years champions. If a few series go by and a peice of the pen still fails, Bobby and Wren will fix it. Dont mortgage your future, it wasnt a huge deal in the whol scheme of things. Instead look to the fact that we had great at bats from out outfield for a change. Or to how Lowe and JJ were steller.

GLASSMAN
04-10-2009, 06:33 PM
Im sorry but didnt anyone else find that ironic??:D

Yes. LOL

In regard to the bull pen, it hit me today while driving home how easy it is to dwell on an aberration. We cut the Phils a$$es for 26 out of 27 innings. The Phils had one lucky, not good, lucky inning. Our chances of building on our overall performance is far greater than that of the Phils building on there dumb luck. One of the comments that I read in one of the Philly rags was that if they are ever in a similar situation they will know that they can overcome the odds. That's paraphrased but you get the drift. I'm not a smart man but if I had the opportunity to bet against the same outcome in a similar situation I'd have no problem going all in. By the way the Rockies are pounding Hamels and company 7-2 right now. 50 cents says they don't rally.

howiend
04-11-2009, 12:43 AM
I am still holding out hope for the pen. I think Bennet will be gone when Glavine is activated. Moylan may take some time - would be nice if he was working out the kinks in the minors. Not sure Jorge will ever give the Braves much again. If the braves had one more guy to go with soriano and gonzalez that would be great!!!

BRAVE KID
04-11-2009, 02:22 AM
although I pratically went off in the game-day thread on the pen..I am not ready to give up on it yet. we have the talent, it just seems it's not clicking yet.

Sori had a great performance, Moylan lasted just 3 pitches, he is just leaving his stuff up it's not really sinking at all and righties (whom he is suppose to be an expert at getting out) are smoking it, Bennett is not going to stay in the pen for long so I am not going to worry about him, Caryle had a pretty decent outing. eric seems to be out there all the time.

Gonzo is the one I wonder about. Now he looked great getting ahead of the hitters but he just couldn't put the majority away, in the 9th I believe he got ahead of almost every batter he faced at least 1-2, but yet could not finish them. He is leaving all of his pitches up, the slider down and in that would just embarass righties last year that is being left up and ends up getting a lot of plate in the inside. He seems to have lost faith with the fastball in the inside corner or anything on the outside against righties. Just b/c I wonder about him doesn't mean I don't want him as our closer, it is just weird to see from him

It just seems very weird to me, we have good talent in the pen just nothing is settling down yet.

Joe Smoe
04-11-2009, 11:34 AM
although I pratically went off in the game-day thread on the pen..I am not ready to give up on it yet. we have the talent, it just seems it's not clicking yet.

Sori had a great performance, Moylan lasted just 3 pitches, he is just leaving his stuff up it's not really sinking at all and righties (whom he is suppose to be an expert at getting out) are smoking it, Bennett is not going to stay in the pen for long so I am not going to worry about him, Caryle had a pretty decent outing. eric seems to be out there all the time.

Gonzo is the one I wonder about. Now he looked great getting ahead of the hitters but he just couldn't put the majority away, in the 9th I believe he got ahead of almost every batter he faced at least 1-2, but yet could not finish them. He is leaving all of his pitches up, the slider down and in that would just embarass righties last year that is being left up and ends up getting a lot of plate in the inside. He seems to have lost faith with the fastball in the inside corner or anything on the outside against righties. Just b/c I wonder about him doesn't mean I don't want him as our closer, it is just weird to see from him

It just seems very weird to me, we have good talent in the pen just nothing is settling down yet.


The season is still very young right now. Heck most of the teams that will be going to the playoffs wont start looking like the teams to beat till the all star break.

I think Gonzo will take a bit of time to heat up. He will get it back though.

If not, we have the farm depth, and Wren has a nest egg built for just this type of situation. Of all seasons this will be a easier season to pray upon some teams at the all star break. With so many teams not even trying to contend.

Greeklegend
04-11-2009, 03:25 PM
Ok. I was just as bewildered and pissed when the Braves Bullpen blew it with the Philly Games. But One thing I see that I don't know if it was talked about in this thread is, I would be more concerned if the Phillies actually hit homers and doubles and just killed the bullpen. The bullpen did not give up any hard hit balls in that inning, which would definitely question there stuff. The problem in that game was pure control and that I can live with because everyone knows that Campillo, Bennett, Moylan, etc have excellent control. I mean Kawakami walked like what 7 batters and that is not him. Yet we did not harp or say get him out of Atlanta because of it. Because it wasn't a game of meaning, we gave him a pass and made all kind of excuses for him. Why? We know he was excellent in spring and his control was stellar.

So although the pen really blew it in the 7th inning nightmare, that's not our pen. It is really early in the season and I 'm not at all worried about the pen. Whats the saying, every team will win 60 and lose 60? Well, lets put this as one of our losses and learn from it and move on.

Gonzo could have gotten the save last night (early this morning) if Diaz would of caught the ball. I know, a pitcher has to pitch around stuff like that, but he also did save the game with that ball he stopped with the glove. That thing was headed for center and would of scored 2. We would of seen instead a win for the Nationals 6-5. Lets lay off Gonzo he's still getting his mechanics down. I'll say this though, I would rather have all the meltdowns and blown saves this early in the season than in the mid season when standings get bunched up and teams are in the hunt for the playoffs. And good starts are good and all, but lets not forget the Royals last year were leading their division and looked where they ended up.

jbake_11
04-11-2009, 06:35 PM
How about Medlen as a closer :ohno:

iamaj
04-12-2009, 05:06 PM
The 'pen looked better in the Nationals' series. I'm willing to toss out Friday's game because it was far from a typical game. Delays that limit our starter to 3 IP won't happen every series (nor every other week, for the most part).

Moylan, Soriano, and Gonzo took care of business for Kawakami yesterday, then they held the Nats in check despite JJ having some control issues. Bennett got out of trouble, only let in one inherited runner and was good in the 7th. O'Flaherty was the definite weak link, but Buddy bailed him out. Soriano puts Washington out of their misery was an uneventful 9th.

Wednesday's debacle looks to be the exception, not the rule. Besides, I would take this bullpen over the ones we had when Smoltz went back to the rotation. Remember the days when we prayed for complete games because we had a greater chance of losing (despite the score) if it got to the 'pen (hyperbole, yes, but not too far from the truth or, at least, the consensus feeling)?

rtgthree
04-12-2009, 06:25 PM
O'Flaherty was the definite weak link

Actually, Bobby Cox was the definite weak link. What kind of manager puts a LOOGY in to face three right-handed hitters? That's setting your player up for failure.