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View Full Version : Why did Team USA need a traditional PG?



sp1derm00
04-08-2009, 06:34 PM
I was replying to the All-NBA First Team thread with:

Wade
Kobe
Lebron
Tim Duncan
Dwight

and something came to me... if you put Chris Paul on that team, the team would not be as effective as if Kobe or Wade were replaced with a player who can catch and shoot 3's at an extremely high percentage.

To be effective, CP3 needs the ball in his hands just about 100% of the time. I will just use him as an example, but when I say CP3, it includes Deron and Kidd.

Kobe and Lebron have learned to play without handling the ball as much anymore and move without the ball extremely well. However, both can make great passes at the right moments and can dominate anyone on single coverage. Wade needs the ball in his hands more than Kobe and Lebron do, but he is a great passer as well.

If you isolate Kobe, Wade, or Lebron... no one in the world can stop them. If someone rotates away from their man to help out, all three of them are more than capable of finding the open man.

With a traditional PG, you have CP3 who is not accustomed to playing without the ball. He might be able to break down defenses off the dribble, but he's not going to be going as aggressively every single time... there will be fatigue. Not only this, but when someone else has the ball, CP3 isn't the kind of player who will make a great cut and finish strong at the rim... players will leave him and it won't hurt as much as if Kobe made a play, got doubled, and found Wade cutting in.

With Kobe, Wade, and Lebron taking turns handling the offense, there would be less fatigue on one player, and a constant barrage of cuts by three great players. Leaving ANY player would result in dire consequences. No one would leave Dwight, and if they did, it would result in a lob and a dunk. Same with Chris Bosh.

My question is, with a perimeter of Kobe, Wade, and Lebron... all players who can create for themselves and make great passes, and with two of the three capable of playing well without the ball in their hands much of the time, why would you need a traditional PG like CP3?

lakers4sho
04-08-2009, 06:38 PM
Who cares if they can mesh together or not??

ink
04-08-2009, 06:42 PM
Who cares if they can mesh together or not??

Ask any member of Isiah's Knicks rosters if it matters whether good players can mesh or not.

IrespectNumber3
04-08-2009, 07:10 PM
Wade turns over the ball alot...CP3 doesnt thats the fine line between that...and thats the only thing Wade does wrong...Thats why the heat dont start wade at PG

bahama0811
04-08-2009, 07:31 PM
There's only one ball to go around. They need someone to distribute it to all of the scorers.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-08-2009, 07:36 PM
The USA teams best asset was that everyone on that team can score. If they didn't have a real PG, they wouldn't have passed the ball around more which would lead to less points, closer games, slower offense, they would have someone who isn't use to being a full-time PG play the position, and a lot of other things.

IBleedPurple
04-08-2009, 07:48 PM
If we lost, this would be an issue. I think the team did just fine, although the international gap is closing....

lakers4sho
04-08-2009, 07:52 PM
Ask any member of Isiah's Knicks rosters if it matters whether good players can mesh or not.

Wasn't the OP talking about the All-NBA First team??

Kyben36
04-08-2009, 08:02 PM
God forbit CP3, D Will or Kidd played over D Wade at starting PG, It doesnt realy matter but CP3 has skills that D Wade does not, for instance, Passing, which a PG is sposed to do.

R BU 5
04-08-2009, 08:13 PM
the ability to guard smaller quicker guards is important, which cp 3 can do

ink
04-08-2009, 08:17 PM
Wasn't the OP talking about the All-NBA First team??

Of course he was. But all you have to do is ask any member of any team that doesn't get the most out of its talent to answer your question. You need a talented distributor to make the individual scorers into a coordinated attack. RapsChamp answered the question pretty well.

KB24PG16
04-08-2009, 08:18 PM
Who cares if they can mesh together or not??

its called chemistry need it to win

Kyle N.
04-08-2009, 11:32 PM
I'm a fan of a traditional PG running the show, but either way, it wouldn't have mattered. Go America!

madiaz3
04-09-2009, 12:29 AM
I thought about this today, sometimes I think a team of two superstars, a star and very solid players and role players could beat a roster of just cp3 wade kobe lebron dwight etc

I was thinking a team like
Tony Parker
Kobe Bryant
Shane Battier
Tim Duncan
Mehmet Okur

In this case as well I feel as if a guard like Tony Parker would be a better choice over a JKidd/CP3 PG. Maybe I'm wrong or getting too sidetracked in class...

CP3 The Great
04-09-2009, 12:47 AM
I thought about this today, sometimes I think a team of two superstars, a star and very solid players and role players could beat a roster of just cp3 wade kobe lebron dwight etc

I was thinking a team like
Tony Parker
Kobe Bryant
Shane Battier
Tim Duncan
Mehmet Okur

In this case as well I feel as if a guard like Tony Parker would be a better choice over a JKidd/CP3 PG. Maybe I'm wrong or getting too sidetracked in class...

no offense yeah your wrong chris paul gets the best of tony parker all the time these days although tony's good, kobe is the best, shane couldn't hold lebron if he tried all he could do is frustrate him which is not enough, tim duncan is kinda gettin old these day's he couldn't defend a chris bosh and dwight howard against mehmet okur haha thats a joke to this nation he would murder okur on the boards. okur isn't even american he would never play on a usa team

madiaz3
04-09-2009, 12:57 AM
no offense yeah your wrong chris paul gets the best of tony parker all the time these days although tony's good, kobe is the best, shane couldn't hold lebron if he tried all he could do is frustrate him which is not enough, tim duncan is kinda gettin old these day's he couldn't defend a chris bosh and dwight howard against mehmet okur haha thats a joke to this nation he would murder okur on the boards. okur isn't even american he would never play on a usa team

Yeah but you have to account for chemistry and realize that the game is not just a bunch of 1v1 ISO situations. How many people between Wade Kobe Lebron CP3 need the ball to be their best? Even though the Celtics big 3 are superstars, they at least compliment each other really well, with the perfect PG in Rondo and down in the paint center to compliment KG's unrivaled midrange jumper from a PF. Rondo drives in, can create on his own, with 3 point shooting in Pierce but more importantly Allen, etc. etc.

Obviously the superstars for the most part made it work in the Olympics but I don't think it could work in an NBA series which is what I was talking about.

abe_froman
04-09-2009, 01:13 AM
because coach k wanted it that way

JayW_1023
04-09-2009, 04:40 AM
We all saw how team USA faired with Allen Iverson playing the point.

Hellcrooner
04-09-2009, 10:36 AM
Yeah pleas, just do that in the next World Cup, no Pg for team usa. ;)

b_rad23
04-09-2009, 11:21 AM
God forbit CP3, D Will or Kidd played over D Wade at starting PG, It doesnt realy matter but CP3 has skills that D Wade does not, for instance, Passing, which a PG is sposed to do.

You mean the same Dwyane Wade who is 9th in the league in assists among all players, (while still doing this from the SG position) can't pass? :laugh:

Wade won that skills competition back-to-back, etc. He's one of the best passers in the league.

I think

Wade
Kobe
Melo
Lebron
Dwight

would be the best 5. Bosh and Paul would be 6 and 7 and that team would dominate.

But, I'd keep it as is. The team clicked this year. Maybe I put Wade in the starting lineup for Kobe by then, but why change a team that did so well?

THE MTL
04-09-2009, 12:25 PM
I was replying to the All-NBA First Team thread with:

Wade
Kobe
Lebron
Tim Duncan
Dwight

and something came to me... if you put Chris Paul on that team, the team would not be as effective as if Kobe or Wade were replaced with a player who can catch and shoot 3's at an extremely high percentage.

To be effective, CP3 needs the ball in his hands just about 100% of the time. I will just use him as an example, but when I say CP3, it includes Deron and Kidd.

Kobe and Lebron have learned to play without handling the ball as much anymore and move without the ball extremely well. However, both can make great passes at the right moments and can dominate anyone on single coverage. Wade needs the ball in his hands more than Kobe and Lebron do, but he is a great passer as well.

If you isolate Kobe, Wade, or Lebron... no one in the world can stop them. If someone rotates away from their man to help out, all three of them are more than capable of finding the open man.

With a traditional PG, you have CP3 who is not accustomed to playing without the ball. He might be able to break down defenses off the dribble, but he's not going to be going as aggressively every single time... there will be fatigue. Not only this, but when someone else has the ball, CP3 isn't the kind of player who will make a great cut and finish strong at the rim... players will leave him and it won't hurt as much as if Kobe made a play, got doubled, and found Wade cutting in.

With Kobe, Wade, and Lebron taking turns handling the offense, there would be less fatigue on one player, and a constant barrage of cuts by three great players. Leaving ANY player would result in dire consequences. No one would leave Dwight, and if they did, it would result in a lob and a dunk. Same with Chris Bosh.

My question is, with a perimeter of Kobe, Wade, and Lebron... all players who can create for themselves and make great passes, and with two of the three capable of playing well without the ball in their hands much of the time, why would you need a traditional PG like CP3?

Only an idiot would say something as STUPID AS THIS!

Really???? You serious??? Do you really think Wade and Kobe are better PG's than Chris Paul. You forget that Chris Paul is a pass first POINT GUARD! You forget that he gets his teammates involved in the the beginning of games and takes over in the latter half of the game. Chris Paul has perfect vision and can get these guys amazing shots.

Only a ****** would choose Kobe and Wade over Paul at PG. And then you have the nerve to say that these two can make better passes than Paul too. Ok, Wade and Kobe can make the occasional good pass. BUT CHRIS PAUL ALWAYS makes the good pass. Dwade turns the ball over like no tommorrow. And also I dont know what games you be watching but Lebron and Wade dominate the ball to where they start dribbling the ball up the court and ur hero Kobe does the same thing.

And ur last argument about creating shots for themselves. Ummm...CP3 gives you over 22ppg. I THINK THAT INVOLVES ALOT of creating. You really need to watch CP3 play cause you dont know anything. He finishes very strong around the rim. There are HIGHLIGHTS all over the place with his fancy moves to the paint.

Honestly, with so much talent on the All-NBA First team, you need a guy who only looking to pass. You have KObe-Lebron-Wade. All who want to shoot first. All ball-dominant and all of them average over 27ppg! You need a guy just looking to pass and when you have CP3, Kidd, Williams, Nash, etc. thats when chemistry happens

hotpotato1092
04-09-2009, 12:42 PM
The all NBA team isn't supposed to mesh, it's suppose to just be the 5 players in the NBA who had the best seasons, the best two guards, two forwards and one center. And team USA needed Paul because all good teams need a point guard, someone unselfish to move the ball around. If Wade, Kobe and LeBron were always on the court at the same time it would be awful for team USA because they all expect to be the #1 option, Paul would defer because he's an unselfish player, you need that in a point guard and on a team.

JayW_1023
04-09-2009, 12:56 PM
You mean the same Dwyane Wade who is 9th in the league in assists among all players, (while still doing this from the SG position) can't pass? :laugh:

Wade won that skills competition back-to-back, etc. He's one of the best passers in the league.

I think

Wade
Kobe
Melo
Lebron
Dwight

would be the best 5. Bosh and Paul would be 6 and 7 and that team would dominate.

But, I'd keep it as is. The team clicked this year. Maybe I put Wade in the starting lineup for Kobe by then, but why change a team that did so well?

I disagree...they are still all score first players. You need a pass first player to ensure a nice offensive balance...a team with just shoot first players no matter how talent is not very practical if you want to play organised basketball within a team concept.

Assists don't say much about how well you can execute plays. As good as Wade can pass, he isn't the most careful with the ball.

FOBolous
04-09-2009, 04:33 PM
kicking it out to the open man is not "playmaking." A play maker is a player who knows the tendency of his teammates and seeks to get the ball to his teammates where they are most effective at so his players will play well. That's why players that play with great PGs like Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, and Chris Paul tend to overachieve while a player experience no great jump in their level of play when they play with Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Dwayne Wade, or Lebron James.

with that in mind...the reason why Team USA needs a PG is because international teams are experts at zone defense. Their zone defense is very effective at limiting our superstar's ability to go 1on1. That's why we didn't win the gold these past few years in international competitions. So for last year's Olympics, we were careful to select players that compliment each other...not just players who are good individually. Good PGs are essential because...well...they're great point guards. They're have amazing floor vision, make smart decisions, and know how to get the ball to the right player, at the right place, at the right time. Good PGs are needed to break down the zone defense.