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View Full Version : Why is Phoenix so bad?



EHL
04-05-2009, 05:58 PM
Seriously. I look at this team and IMO they are better than what their record shows. Is there something wrong with their chemistry? I would think not. they have athletes with a good character like Nash and G. Hill. Shaq is likeable as a teammate nowadays.


Talent? Shaq is still a 18 and 10 shooting 50% beast. Nash Can still shoot the lights out and is still very good in getting the ball to his men. Jason Richardson is an all world offensive talent. I mean sure he's not a model player but he's not Ricky Davis either. They have good role players like Lopez, Matt Barnes and Amundson.


Whats wrong with them?

JordansBulls
04-05-2009, 06:01 PM
Seriously. I look at this team and IMO they are better than what their record shows. Is there something wrong with their chemistry? I would think not. they have athletes with a good character like Nash and G. Hill. Shaq is likeable as a teammate nowadays.


Talent? Shaq is still a 18 and 10 shooting 50% beast. Nash Can still shoot the lights out and is still very good in getting the ball to his men. Jason Richardson is an all world offensive talent. I mean sure he's not a model player but he's not Ricky Davis either. They have good role players like Lopez, Matt Barnes and Amundson.


Whats wrong with them?

Honestly I think it is more because Nash is getting older and not the same player as he was the past few years. Just like you can tell Duncan is wearing down now.

Spurred1
04-05-2009, 06:01 PM
They had a bad period with a coach that didn't fit their running style. Then they lost Amare for the rest of the season. Those two factors caused more havoc than anything else.

Kakaroach
04-05-2009, 06:01 PM
Cue 3 pages of bad defense.

thephoenixson28
04-05-2009, 06:04 PM
They had a bad period with a coach that didn't fit their running style. Then they lost Amare for the rest of the season. Those two factors caused more havoc than anything else. this is exactly what I was going to say

Hawkize31
04-05-2009, 06:04 PM
Cue 3 pages of bad defense.

Wrong.

They don't have a bad defense actually.

They don't have a defense at all.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-05-2009, 06:17 PM
It's because they started the season with a different philosophy. They were told to be a defensive team but that wasn't going to happen. They went back to running and gunning but its a little too late and considering Amar'e is gone for the season. If they started the season running and gunning, they would be in the playoffs.

ddaughtry
04-05-2009, 06:41 PM
They are bad because they let D' Antoni leave. It doesn't help that Stoudemire is hurt. It doesn't help they play in the West either.

#1Mavericksfan
04-05-2009, 06:53 PM
I don't like to kick a team when there down but the Suns fired Terry Porter beacuse the players didn't want to play defense and now look at them......

hotpotato1092
04-05-2009, 06:53 PM
I think Phoenix is the most unlucky team in NBA history. What if Joe Johnson didn't break his face in 2005? What if Amare Stoudemire could have come back for the WCF in 2006? What if Amare and Boris Diaw didn't get suspend in 2007? What if Tim Duncan didn't hit that three in 2008? They really should have at least one title by now, it's a shame.

superkegger
04-05-2009, 06:57 PM
Two reasons:

1. Steve Kerr ****ed them hardcore with bad management

2. They don't play bad defense, they just don't play defense.

madiaz3
04-05-2009, 07:00 PM
Without a doubt they would have had a strong position in the standings and made playoffs for sure had they played in Gentry's system for at least most of the year. Just at the height of their resurgence post Gentry, Amare went down. I don't think anyone is denying they would have been a force to be reckoned with a strong record if they had played with Nash Richardson Hill Amare and Shaq.

However, buying into Terry Porter's more traditional system was their only shot at being a contender. But that change would have taken too much time and/or immediate compliance to change the style they've known so long to be a realistic option.

sdweston757
04-05-2009, 07:12 PM
two words.

steve kerr

leftie5
04-05-2009, 07:34 PM
We have a lot of talent, but we have absolutely no defense. Teams just have to run pick and roll and if they have an attacking PG or a big man who can consistently hit a 15 footer they will destroy us. The help defense is terrible and when help is there, the other team just kicks it out to wide open 3 point shooters. When Grant Hill is your best defender you are in trouble.

I think we have too many guys on our team who need the ball to be effective (Shaq, Amar'e, Steve, JRich, etc.) and not enough role players. We need perimeter defense. I wouldn't mind trading JRich and as much as I love Shaq I think he should be dealt too. The Cavs were pushing for him at the deadline, and maybe we can deal him in the offseason for Varajeo/Hickson and Pavlovic. It would be more about dumping salary to fill other holes on the team than getting 'equal' return.

All I know is it should be an interesting offseason.

TopsyTurvy
04-05-2009, 07:36 PM
Let's reflect: Trade deadline has just past, now cover Kobe's right eye with a patch for a few months and replace Jackson with Van Gundy. Go!

harris2carter
04-05-2009, 07:39 PM
its exactly what Marc Jackson said if all u care about is offense your gonna loose. they lost all there good defenders through trades

CB4AB7VC15
04-05-2009, 07:53 PM
r the heat or hawks or philly a bad team? no, they would be 4th seed in the east.

heyman321
04-05-2009, 08:15 PM
I think Phoenix is the most unlucky team in NBA history. What if Joe Johnson didn't break his face in 2005? What if Amare Stoudemire could have come back for the WCF in 2006? What if Amare and Boris Diaw didn't get suspend in 2007? What if Tim Duncan didn't hit that three in 2008? They really should have at least one title by now, it's a shame.

+100000000.

One of the unluckiest teams this past decade. IMO they should have had at least two championships by now. 04-05 and 06-07. And man, Duncan freaking FULLY SHUFFLED HIS FEET AND TRAVELED on that 3, but oh well bye to the SSOL era in Phoenix.

Kakaroach
04-05-2009, 08:19 PM
Wrong.

They don't have a bad defense actually.

They don't have a defense at all. :laugh: Guess thats true.

harris2carter
04-05-2009, 09:06 PM
r the heat or hawks or philly a bad team? no, they would be 4th seed in the east.

are they in the east where 40 wins gets u in the playoffs?

stawka
04-05-2009, 09:52 PM
Why is Phoenix so bad?????

1 - Their best player (Amare) can't play defense.
2 - Their best player (Amare) DOESN'T WANT TO play defense.
3 - Their Point-Guard (third best player (Nash) can't play defense.
4 - Their Point-Guard (third best player (Nash) DOESN'T WANT TO play defense.
5 - Their second best player (Shaq) is 37 years old and can't play hard every game.
6 - Their fourth best player (Hill... who is playing better then the third best player) is 37 years old and can't play hard every game.
7 - When management tries to get the team to play defense, their top players throw up a hissy-fit like a skank on her period, and refuse to play because "Defense is not fun, running up and down and getting 10 dunks per game for 140PPG is fun"...

Sad to see a 2-time MVP playing alongside one of the best offensive big-men in the game, a 4-time NBA champion, a high-flyer like J-Rich, a resurgent Grant Hill and Barbosa off the bench... Can't even get to the Playoff's.
Quote me on this one... Defense doesn't win Championships, dunks and 140PPG does. :rolleyes:

what54!?
04-05-2009, 09:55 PM
Old players being their key players

lack of commitment to defense

loss of their best player ( he doesn't commitment to defense either)

dre1990
04-05-2009, 10:10 PM
A) Cause they cant play D
B) Steve Kerr

-Juice-
04-05-2009, 10:12 PM
The Suns don't have a go-to-guy. They live and die by the jumpshot and that is not a good thing at all. Hell, I don't even know who gets the last shot if it came down to it. Probably Nash or Hill?

Anyways, without Amare this team is just an average team because of their defense. Maybe I am being a HUGE homer here, but I think if this team had Amare and played with Gentry (Run & Gun) the whole season, they would be 4th or 5th in the Western Conference.

They are a very very good offensive team. Highest FG % and most PPG in the league. I guess there defense is just that bad.

Also, this team has no chance of winning games on a back-to-back since they are so old. That is another factor. Age.

Kakaroach
04-05-2009, 10:15 PM
A) Cause they cant play D
B) Steve Kerr x2 Kerr is an idiot for trading their two best defensive players in Bell and Diaw. If he hadn't done that, and Amare hadn't gotten injured, they would be like 4th or 5th seed right now. And it would help if they actually rotated on defense...

-Juice-
04-05-2009, 10:17 PM
Why is Phoenix so bad?????
7 - When management tries to get the team to play defense, their top players throw up a hissy-fit like a skank on her period, and refuse to play because "Defense is not fun, running up and down and getting 10 dunks per game for 140PPG is fun"...

Sad to see a 2-time MVP playing alongside one of the best offensive big-men in the game, a 4-time NBA champion, a high-flyer like J-Rich, a resurgent Grant Hill and Barbosa off the bench... Can't even get to the Playoff's.
Quote me on this one... Defense doesn't win Championships, dunks and 140PPG does. :rolleyes:

You really don't know what you are talking about. Terry Porter came in and said he was going to run and gun, but just wanted to add defense. He did completely opposite and slowed things down and basically lied to the team. That is why some players became very angry with Porter and didn't buy into his system.

Also, some players like Nash and Amare have never been on defensive teams in their lives. You can't just teach defense to these players in a month and expect them to be good at it. This teams strength is run and gun. Nash, and everybody else on this team with the exception of Shaq is a run and gun player.

If Kerr wanted a defensive teams, he needed the pieces for it. You can't try and force the defensive idea with players not suitable for it. It is that simple. Kerr did a horrible job with this team and he either needs to fire Gentry, and trade everyone if he wants a defensive team, or shake things up a bit keep the main pieces and try one more year before 2010 when half the Suns team is gone to FA.

-Juice-
04-05-2009, 10:20 PM
x2 Kerr is an idiot for trading their two best defensive players in Bell and Diaw. If he hadn't done that, and Amare hadn't gotten injured, they would be like 4th or 5th seed right now. And it would help if they actually rotated on defense...

The Suns got the better deal. Jared Dudley is turning into a hell of a player. He added a 3 point shot and is the ultimate hustle player and a damn good defender, better than what Bell is now. Richardson gives a lot more offense than Diaw and both are pretty bad defenders anyways. Suns also got a 2nd round pick too.

Bell was getting old and his defense has been getting worse each year. Diaw can't play with Amare, which sucks because Amare got hurt and Diaw was a beast the year Amare was out.

IversonIsKrazy
04-05-2009, 10:32 PM
Spurs just killed them. There just sick of playing great ball in the season, then losing to Spurs in playoffs lol.

king4day
04-05-2009, 10:50 PM
They need to trade Richardson and Shaq this offseason for smaller pieces that fit better.

Bg7getclutch
04-05-2009, 11:01 PM
suns should have no problem making the playoffs with stoudemire and shaq and nash in the line up.

SteveNash
04-05-2009, 11:02 PM
I think Phoenix is the most unlucky team in NBA history. What if Joe Johnson didn't break his face in 2005? What if Amare Stoudemire could have come back for the WCF in 2006? What if Amare and Boris Diaw didn't get suspend in 2007? What if Tim Duncan didn't hit that three in 2008? They really should have at least one title by now, it's a shame.

They'd still lose everytime.

Phoenix is just a team of whiners who make excuses instead of trying hard.

+Kerr sucks.

HiphopRelated
04-05-2009, 11:17 PM
r the heat or hawks or philly a bad team? no, they would be 4th seed in the east.
They wouldn't be .500 in the East, but that's another argument

jlisec01
04-05-2009, 11:39 PM
they need some young players in there for a fast paced offensive that they have, but with Amare out its a lose lose situation, but still they are bad defensive wise. I think the suns are in the wrong division, its just so dominating right now than the east, and there too old and not defensive enough to hang in with the playoffs.

cwilson21
04-06-2009, 12:03 AM
They play absolutely 0 defense. Mark Jackson and Van Gundy were giving them hell today.

braveniler58
04-06-2009, 02:37 AM
So many things went wrong for the Suns this season.

First thing first, Robert Sarver is one of the most selfish owners out there. I don't blame him since he's losing a lot of money in this economy. However, he's been selfish ever since he bought the team. He set up a great team then his greed got better of him.

We have too many offensive options. That sounds odd, but look at the games Amare and Barbosa were out as examples. The Suns were still able to light their opponents up (Hey, I didn't say they could defend. They can score).

I really don't understand why we traded Bell and Diaw for Richardson. Bell apparently asked for a trade but why for an offensive-minded player that can't defend? The only positive that came out of that trade is Jared Dudley who has emerged as a bench stud. I love him and his play, he's amazing. He's just exactly what the Suns need -- a player who's willing to play hard every single possession.

I wish the Suns player followed Charli Turner Thorne's (Arizona State women's basketball coach) playing philosophy. Her system is set up with constant subsitutions, no matter how good you're playing. ASU made as far as the Elite Eight in the NCAA tournament (where they lost to Connecticut -- who just beat Stanford in the Final Four by 19 points and is now 38-0 on the season). ASU has just one star, their point guard Briann January. She plays only what, 25-30 minutes? Around 8-10 players on the ASU team play at least 10 minutes per game, with most of them playing 20-25 minutes.

Why is her system set up like this? Because she wants her players to play to their fullest energy, their fullest potential, EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY'RE ON COURT. She rewards them by giving them quick brief rests and sends them back on court. Their energy level stay on par across the full 40 minutes of the game.

With the Suns, I see periods of time where nobody gives a ****, at all. They let the opposing team score at will. They aren't aggressive on offense. Then the next minute they play amazing -- and a while afterwards, they suck again. No consistency. I would very much prefer to have ASU's system than this Suns' system -- at least it got ASU far with very few quality players (compared to other teams).

What the Suns need to do to improve is rather simple. Nash still has a few years left, and Goran Dragic has emerged as a good backup PG (compared to early in the season, where he looked pathetic on court) -- he has confidence to shoot and drive and pass now. He looks good. The Suns don't need to get another PG to back up Nash; Dragic is it. They need to trade some of the offensive stars on the team, such as Jason Richardson (and perhaps Matt Barnes -- not sure on him yet) for some defensive studs. Leandro Barbosa plays so much better when he's a starter, and he deserves to start over J-Rich.

As for Shaq, I love him and all, but I don't know if he should still be on the Suns. I'm not sure if Seven Seconds or Shaq is really working -- it doesn't seem like the Suns know when to run the offense through Shaq and when not to. Shaq's effective some games, non-existent in others.

Players to keep:
Steve Nash
Grant Hill (this guy is a ****ing BEAST -- no way do we let him go)
Amar'e Stoudemire (no matter what, he's still one of the best. If we can get a defensive center and perimeter defender, they can make up for Amar'e's defensive deficiencies).
Jared Dudley
Louis Amundson
Leandro Barbosa
Goran Dragic
Robin Lopez (I can see his potential. He definitely needs a lot more time to develop -- SEND HIM TO THE ****ING D-LEAGUE ALREADY!)

Players to get rid of:
Jason Richardson (And start Barbosa, ffs.)
Matt Barnes (Wildly inconsistent, lets his emotions get better of him from time to time)
Shaquille O'Neal (? Not sure yet)

I don't care who we get, as long as they can play defense. This system does work, but we just keep getting ****ed over by *something* every season. First, it was Joe Johnson's injury, then it was Amar'e's microfracture surgery, then it was the suspensions of Amare/Diaw, then that three by Duncan that just effectively killed our season. And of course, this year's complete utter fiasco.

Whoo, sorry for the long rant. The Suns have so much potential, and I really want to see Nash win a ring. I'm hoping it'll happen next year -- but only if Sarver/Kerr smartens up and trades the players we don't need for players we DO need.

J-Relo
04-06-2009, 03:27 AM
Seriously. I look at this team and IMO they are better than what their record shows. Is there something wrong with their chemistry? I would think not. they have athletes with a good character like Nash and G. Hill. Shaq is likeable as a teammate nowadays.


Talent? Shaq is still a 18 and 10 shooting 50% beast. Nash Can still shoot the lights out and is still very good in getting the ball to his men. Jason Richardson is an all world offensive talent. I mean sure he's not a model player but he's not Ricky Davis either. They have good role players like Lopez, Matt Barnes and Amundson.


Whats wrong with them?

They aren't that bad. Real Phoenix Suns team was after all-star break... and record after that is not bad, it's actually good, especially as Amare is Out, we could have been in a better situation if Amare and Barbosa weren't out at the most of the games after all-star break...

what was before - i don't know... they tried new philosophy as it is never good to do that... so with Porter we were as bad as we could, especially these guys that we traded (Boris, Bell), they had no will to play in a new system, as players should be proffessional and play their best in all situations I don't get it... i can see Diaw now playing better, it would be great if he was playing like that at the beginning of the season here in Phoenix... but players lack of effort to play in new system ruined all the season...

after all-star break we have nice record, cause we got back to where we are best, started running and running... and after both Clippers games it looked that we will get back into contenders, but we lost Amare (his eye that Diaw poked got worse)... we didn't gave up, but after Barbosa got injured it was tough to play without those two guys... but we still were there untill last night loss to Mavs (hopefully they lose all the games and we win all upcoming games)... but it would be almost impossible to win series against LA, especially without Amare...

JayW_1023
04-06-2009, 03:30 AM
Their defense is [Comic Book Guy]the worst ever[/Comic Book Guy]

This team is not only out of sync on the court but off the court as well. The decisions the front office made have been disastrous. Trade a proven defender in Bell...and a vintage open floor player in Diaw for a one dimensional scorer like J-Rich.

abe_froman
04-06-2009, 03:31 AM
why,well there are a few
1.the hiring of porter,he wanted defense from players known for great o and no d,they responded...by digging themselves into a hole that in the west will doom you
2.kerr,he wanted "bigger names"(shaq,j rich),not thinking if they'd be good fits(this fell det this year to with ai)
3.some guys are just getting old and not what they once were
4.no amare(the main weapon)gets injured right after they let the leash off him
5.no d.if your no longer the unmatchable offensive force,you better start playing some..they cant

J-Relo
04-06-2009, 03:32 AM
x2 Kerr is an idiot for trading their two best defensive players in Bell and Diaw. If he hadn't done that, and Amare hadn't gotten injured, they would be like 4th or 5th seed right now. And it would help if they actually rotated on defense...

if Bell and Diaw would have played with some effort they would still be there, i don't see why Kerr should have kept them when they didn't want to be there...

(but still Kerr made huge mistake - coaching change)


PS: Bell is known for his defence, but Diaw, really?

JayW_1023
04-06-2009, 06:38 AM
J-Rich is overrated as hell. I'll take Diaw alone over him any day...so I'm dumbfounded how Phoenix gave up Bell AND Diaw for him. J-Rich is useless when he isn't scoring on ISOs, and his temptation to always finish fancy at the rim makes him very inconsistent. What's wrong with a simple layup J-Rich?

People are so mesmerized by scoring it really has the tendency to overvalue certain players. If a player is only interested in scoring he can really hurt your team. Guys like him, Maggette, Ben Gordon and Jamal Crawford are great examples of players that are virtually useless when they aren't scoring.

Chronz
04-06-2009, 07:11 AM
I never thought Id say this but they miss Amare's defense

bbcmillionaire
04-06-2009, 08:51 AM
Seriously. I look at this team and IMO they are better than what their record shows. Is there something wrong with their chemistry? I would think not. they have athletes with a good character like Nash and G. Hill. Shaq is likeable as a teammate nowadays.


Talent? Shaq is still a 18 and 10 shooting 50% beast. Nash Can still shoot the lights out and is still very good in getting the ball to his men. Jason Richardson is an all world offensive talent. I mean sure he's not a model player but he's not Ricky Davis either. They have good role players like Lopez, Matt Barnes and Amundson.


Whats wrong with them?

i think they need to get a better coach and some defensive players then they would be successful

Kakaroach
04-06-2009, 09:14 AM
They need to trade Richardson and Shaq this offseason for smaller pieces that fit better. x2 I mean Richardson is not good at defense, that includes on-the-ball, staying with your man (Roger Mason on Christmas) and off-the-ball. And if you think Dudley is a better defender than Raja Bell, you must be insane. Diaw was a great fit because he is a guy who can score, pass, and rebound, making him a near triple-double threat on any given night. He played great with Amare in and out of the line-up. It was when Shaq came that he started struggling.

jrivera
04-06-2009, 06:24 PM
1. Theyre old and just getting older.
2. Injuries (Amare) and being an older team doesnt help.
3.I think they lost theyre identity it got scrambled when they traded marion for shaq and even more shook up when D'antoni left. Now they gotta start over..

_Sn1P3r_
04-06-2009, 06:39 PM
They play absolutely 0 defense. Mark Jackson and Van Gundy were giving them hell today.

Haha yeah, they were bagging about Phoenix's defense.

dee279
04-06-2009, 06:51 PM
No one on that team plays defense

nrvana
04-06-2009, 06:57 PM
they don't give effort on both ends of the court.. just offense.

Duncan = Donkey
04-06-2009, 08:13 PM
they don't give effort on both ends of the court.. just offense.


:confused:

Kabowdos
04-06-2009, 08:40 PM
Seriously. I look at this team and IMO they are better than what their record shows. Is there something wrong with their chemistry? I would think not. they have athletes with a good character like Nash and G. Hill. Shaq is likeable as a teammate nowadays.


Talent? Shaq is still a 18 and 10 shooting 50% beast. Nash Can still shoot the lights out and is still very good in getting the ball to his men. Jason Richardson is an all world offensive talent. I mean sure he's not a model player but he's not Ricky Davis either. They have good role players like Lopez, Matt Barnes and Amundson.


Whats wrong with them?

Suns lost Mike D, who is a great coach especially offensively. Ever since the loss of Mike D and the trade for Shaq the Suns have became a worse team. It is the chemistry. Nash getting older isn't helping, although he is still putting up great numbers once you compare him to the rest of the league. The loss of Amare (obviously). Not the same team.

UofA
04-06-2009, 08:53 PM
1. Kerr
2. No Defense
3. Losing Amare

Diggy_2
04-06-2009, 09:41 PM
its that stupid trade they should of kept boris and bell

JPHX
04-06-2009, 10:58 PM
its that stupid trade they should of kept boris and bell

that would be true if we were gonna fire porter, but at the time that wasnt gonna happen.

Teeboy1487
04-06-2009, 11:09 PM
No Amare.

avsman05
04-06-2009, 11:10 PM
^hey is that a picture of amundson on your sig? lol no but seriously nash and shaq are old amare was hurt a lot this year. a lot of factors.

Beno7500
04-07-2009, 10:12 AM
Nash isn't the same

DrDEADalready
04-07-2009, 10:31 AM
Multible factors. Injuries. No defense. bad coaching choices. ect.

Carpdog
04-07-2009, 01:50 PM
As everyone says no defense. Its obvious. If you play the way the Suns do, you better hit 60% of your shots regularly because wide open people on the other end are not gonna miss much.

Not to mention, Shaq is playing well, but he does not fit the Suns style of play at all. In fact if there is one team Shaq should not be on its Pheonix. His numbers are good because he is good, but they made the choice. Run and Gun. That is not as effective with a 7-2 800 pound guy running and gunning.

theimortalone
04-07-2009, 01:56 PM
Defense is a big problem in the valley of the sun. Plus not to mention we have had tons of injuries. That really hurt us. :mad: