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JordansBulls
03-31-2009, 11:59 PM
Is Carmelo Anthony a franchise player?

Kohaku
04-01-2009, 12:08 AM
^ Chill man, w/o JB you'd lose half of the threads in the NBA forum. I want to say yes, but he's no LBJ or Kobe, or at least not yet.

dre1990
04-01-2009, 12:11 AM
yeah he is

TheCooLKid2020
04-01-2009, 12:11 AM
I'll keep it short... YES.

Game_Over
04-01-2009, 12:43 AM
Anyone watching him the last few weeks since he has been healthy should realize he is!!

MELO 15
04-01-2009, 12:50 AM
Of course he is, the nuggets weren't even a team to talk about before he got there, since then they've always got to the playoffs, and in the western conference much less. People keep riding this guy off, but true basketball fans who wacth the game know that this guy is a franchise player, and Id have him start a franchise on any team. This guy could have led the nba in scoring this year if he wanted, but people always critic his game saying thats all he can do, now he has changed his game for the sakes of winning, playing team basketball and is letting the game come to him, and you tell me thats not a sign of a franchise player.

Melo does not get treated like the lebrons or the wades in that these guys get whats called the refs special, or you could even call it special treatment, Melo on the other hand has to earn evey point that he gets, even on D, Melo has played agressive, but from time to time you here that whistle blow, wade and lebron play more agressive than Melo and no whistle, so as long as the refs keep providing the " Special " to players like a wade or Lebron, and make Melo work for every single possesion wether it be on D or offense, he will not get that respect, such as this thread here, I think that if you follow the game, and see it for what it is, then you know that Melo is indeed a franchise player, And thats all there is to it.

One more thing, How can you be the secound Best SF in the League, the best clutch player in the league, one of the toughest if not the toughest player to cover in the league, not be a franchise player, A franchise player is a player that makes your team just what its suppose to be a franchise, And since Melo has arrived in Denver, thats just what he did, Made Denver a franchise again. Brought the nuggets Back into exsistance, Made the nuggets a respectable franchise again. Come on people get a clue :cool:

Bulls4Lyfe
04-01-2009, 01:53 AM
While he may be a franchise player, I have trouble seeing Melo as the leader/top gun on a championship team. I just can't see Anthony leading a team to the championship..anyone else?

UK Bull
04-01-2009, 04:51 AM
While he may be a franchise player, I have trouble seeing Melo as the leader/top gun on a championship team. I just can't see Anthony leading a team to the championship..anyone else?

Yeah same here. I see Billups more of a franchise player the Melo.

Chronz
04-01-2009, 07:37 AM
At this point hes proven hes about as much of a franchise player as Ron Artest has been, but hes been doing this since age 19 so he has the potential to become a Pierce type franchise guy. But hes gotta show up for the playoffs consistently for **** sake.

And I dont care how many of you say hes a better player this year, hes on his way towards doing that, but overall his season has been a disappointment. His health has played a factor, but the guy still has some lapses with his shot selection. This years playoffs will determine alot for alot of players this year.

JordansBulls
04-01-2009, 10:47 AM
At this point hes proven hes about as much of a franchise player as Ron Artest has been, but hes been doing this since age 19 so he has the potential to become a Pierce type franchise guy. But hes gotta show up for the playoffs consistently for **** sake.



Are you kidding me by saying Melo is a franchise player like Artest is?

JayW_1023
04-01-2009, 11:26 AM
At this point hes proven hes about as much of a franchise player as Ron Artest has been, but hes been doing this since age 19 so he has the potential to become a Pierce type franchise guy. But hes gotta show up for the playoffs consistently for **** sake.

And I dont care how many of you say hes a better player this year, hes on his way towards doing that, but overall his season has been a disappointment. His health has played a factor, but the guy still has some lapses with his shot selection. This years playoffs will determine alot for alot of players this year.

I agree...Melo has the talent level to be a franchise guy...but that's only half the work. To be a franchise player you need to have good leadership as well and that's where Melo has failed in his career so far. His maturation proces has been very slow so far...and we can only hope he 'gets it' by the time he hits his prime.

what54!?
04-01-2009, 11:38 AM
Yeah he is but he just can't show up when it matters: the playoffs. This year may different though

bghoops13
04-01-2009, 11:59 AM
Theres no doubt carmelo is a good player, but I don't see him leading the nuggets to a championship.

JordansBulls
04-01-2009, 12:12 PM
Theres no doubt carmelo is a good player, but I don't see him leading the nuggets to a championship.

Where you get the "Avatar" from?

THE_FLASH_21
04-01-2009, 12:15 PM
He is.... Big time. But sorry he's not Lebron or Kobe or even Dwade... :rolleyes: But who the hell is??

Give him some time... I know the wins arn't there... but he'll get his **** together..

EX-TREME
04-01-2009, 12:20 PM
yes

Saltinuts40
04-01-2009, 01:01 PM
LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. That's it. That's the list.

NANDOKNICK
04-01-2009, 01:30 PM
Lebron james have ??? Will he ever win a champisonship...??
Carmelo anthony is a franchise player and has a good chance of winning a championship with the right players around him.
Suns have no championships but have lots of mvps

Chronz
04-01-2009, 04:07 PM
Are you kidding me by saying Melo is a franchise player like Artest is?
I welcome any explanation as to why

still1ballin
04-01-2009, 04:11 PM
Its a toss up. Can he honestly lead his team to a championship?

skny_txn
04-01-2009, 04:20 PM
No way Melo is a franchise player. Don't get me wrong, the potential is there but right now he seems to be too inconsistent. He is a glorified role player. If he went to the Celtics last year instead of say Ray Allen he would have won a championship. He needs other "super" stars around him to win it all. Franchise player? Potentially...but not right now.

JayW_1023
04-01-2009, 06:33 PM
No way Melo is a franchise player. Don't get me wrong, the potential is there but right now he seems to be too inconsistent. He is a glorified role player. If he went to the Celtics last year instead of say Ray Allen he would have won a championship. He needs other "super" stars around him to win it all. Franchise player? Potentially...but not right now.

Not sure..Ray Allen is a very intelligent player that hardly forces the issue. Melo is crazy talented...he just needs to have the mentality of a team player. Allen makes solid decisions with the ball...whereas Melo can make good decisions one day...yet be totally boneheaded the next game.

Consistency in basketball is moreso a mental thing than a physical thing. That is what seperates a Kevin Durant from a Tim Thomas. Similair games...but one of them produces consistently and has focus.

VCaintdead17
04-01-2009, 06:37 PM
Last year I would say yes, but he's was not mature enough to be a team leader.

But this season he has really matured and stepped up. So, yes, he's definitely a franchise player.

VCaintdead17
04-01-2009, 06:40 PM
LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. That's it. That's the list.

You couldn't be more wrong.


Yao Ming, Brandon Roy, Kevin Martin, Danny Granger, Chris Bosh, Devin Harris, Kevin Durant, Al Jefferson, arguable Gilbert Arenas, and definitely Dirk Nowitski.

IversonIsKrazy
04-01-2009, 06:50 PM
he CAN be only normal and competitive teams that dont win, but not on a championship team. On a championship team, hes the 2nd option, or combined w/ another player, like b4. Neither AI nor Melo were the franchise players for nugz, they were equal, thas were i Think Melo is on a championship team.

JayW_1023
04-01-2009, 06:59 PM
Melo is overall way more talented than let's say...Brandon Roy...better shotmaker, post scorer rebounder and ball handler. Difference is that Roy thinks the game...he makes better decisions.


Roy actually has the same damn skillset as Jalen Rose...he is just a much smarter player. Brandons competitiveness and team first mentality allows him to be an elite player at the guard slot.

MELOMAN15
04-01-2009, 07:13 PM
I am the biggest Nuggets Fan to ever live! I live in chicago and go to every playoff game. I am not just saying this because I am a nugget fan, but Melo is no doubt a fanschise player! Why is it even a question?! If anyone says that Melo is overated, they are crazy! Without him, the Nuggets go NOWHERE!

Super.
04-01-2009, 07:24 PM
Melo has turned that team into a contender.

JordansBulls
04-01-2009, 07:26 PM
I welcome any explanation as to why

You said Pierce was a franchise player and that Melo wasn't. How so?

superkegger
04-01-2009, 07:39 PM
Are you kidding me by saying Melo is a franchise player like Artest is?

JB, you're one of the biggest proponents of win shares I know.

Shouldn't Melo, if he's a franchise guy account for more than 4.7 win shares? Which is 4th on his team.

His usage % is high, but his offensive rating is tied for 10th on the team.

I love Melo, but right now, I don't think the argument can be made that he currently is a legit franchise guy. He may very well turn into one, and I wouldn't mind building around him. But right now, I gotta think he's not.

KG2TB
04-01-2009, 08:00 PM
You couldn't be more wrong.


Yao Ming, Brandon Roy, Kevin Martin, Danny Granger, Chris Bosh, Devin Harris, Kevin Durant, Al Jefferson, arguable Gilbert Arenas, and definitely Dirk Nowitski.

Definitely disagree with those selections. They're talented but they're all best as second options. None of those players would win a title being the BEST player on their team. No way in hell.

Sportfan
04-01-2009, 08:10 PM
of course he is. I feel bad for melo actully he gets way too much criticism than he actully deserves

Sportfan
04-01-2009, 08:12 PM
Definitely disagree with those selections. They're talented but they're all best as second options. None of those players would win a title being the BEST player on their team. No way in hell.

what? are you high? bosh isnt a franchise player? Big Al isnt a franchise player? Granger and K-Mart arent franchise players? very bad statement :pity:

dee279
04-01-2009, 08:20 PM
Of course he is, the nuggets weren't even a team to talk about before he got there, since then they've always got to the playoffs, and in the western conference much less. People keep riding this guy off, but true basketball fans who wacth the game know that this guy is a franchise player, and Id have him start a franchise on any team. This guy could have led the nba in scoring this year if he wanted, but people always critic his game saying thats all he can do, now he has changed his game for the sakes of winning, playing team basketball and is letting the game come to him, and you tell me thats not a sign of a franchise player.

Melo does not get treated like the lebrons or the wades in that these guys get whats called the refs special, or you could even call it special treatment, Melo on the other hand has to earn evey point that he gets, even on D, Melo has played agressive, but from time to time you here that whistle blow, wade and lebron play more agressive than Melo and no whistle, so as long as the refs keep providing the " Special " to players like a wade or Lebron, and make Melo work for every single possesion wether it be on D or offense, he will not get that respect, such as this thread here, I think that if you follow the game, and see it for what it is, then you know that Melo is indeed a franchise player, And thats all there is to it.

One more thing, How can you be the secound Best SF in the League, the best clutch player in the league, one of the toughest if not the toughest player to cover in the league, not be a franchise player, A franchise player is a player that makes your team just what its suppose to be a franchise, And since Melo has arrived in Denver, thats just what he did, Made Denver a franchise again. Brought the nuggets Back into exsistance, Made the nuggets a respectable franchise again. Come on people get a clue :cool:

dats a long way to just say yes. But yes he is.

yankeesown69
04-01-2009, 08:34 PM
If surrounded with a good PG then yes. Case in point, Chauncey Billups.

KG2TB
04-01-2009, 09:43 PM
what? are you high? bosh isnt a franchise player? Big Al isnt a franchise player? Granger and K-Mart arent franchise players? very bad statement :pity:

Like I said, they're very good upper talent, but they won't win a title as THE BEST PLAYER ON THEIR TEAM which is what I define a franchise player on. They're all best served as a robin more so than a Batman. Bosh is close and borderline. He might be considered a franchise player...but how succesful are these guys teams right now or in the past? Pretty logical statement in my opinion. If you wanna build your team around Kevin Martin go right ahead.

Hustla23
04-01-2009, 09:43 PM
Of course he's a damn franchise player.

lorenz00
04-01-2009, 09:45 PM
better than bosh right?

IBleedPurple
04-01-2009, 09:47 PM
Still a top 15-20 player. A top 5-7 scorer. He just needs to play defense and be a leader. He has come a long way this season. Chauncey is really helping him. I say he's a franchise player.

DenButsu
04-01-2009, 10:57 PM
His usage % is high, but his offensive rating is tied for 10th on the team.

But he receives about 1/2 of the defensive effort opponents put forth right up in his face. Granted, he does try to force it too much, but without him on the court, the offensive rating of every single one of his teammates takes a dive because they stop getting open looks off of the doubles Melo gets.

superkegger
04-01-2009, 11:24 PM
But he receives about 1/2 of the defensive effort opponents put forth right up in his face. Granted, he does try to force it too much, but without him on the court, the offensive rating of every single one of his teammates takes a dive because they stop getting open looks off of the doubles Melo gets.

I understand that, but of the top 20 guys in Usage %, he and Charlie V have the lowest O rating. And only Kevin Martin and Rip Hamilton had a lower winshare.

It's kind of curious.

DenButsu
04-02-2009, 12:11 AM
I understand that, but of the top 20 guys in Usage %, he and Charlie V have the lowest O rating. And only Kevin Martin and Rip Hamilton had a lower winshare.

It's kind of curious.

Not to me. For one thing, he actually started the season off in a MAJOR scoring slump. One big reason for it, imo, was he was making a deliberate effort to shift his game to a more defensive focus, and more rebounding/passing, and he just couldn't hold it all together simultaneously and maintain his previous shooting clip. He's also had this bone chip in his elbow all season that has jacked his shooting up pretty good.

It's been a season of big adjustments for him: Learning to play alongside Billups (I mean the transition from AI to Chauncey - talk about a bigtime readjustment), losing Camby and getting Nene back at the same time, the entire team shifting to a more defensive philosophy. Ignoring the statistics for a moment, I think one of the most impressive things about Melo this season has been his ability to weather all these changes in a very mature way, deferring leadership to Billups, buying into Karl's more D-oriented program, stepping up into more of a "lead by example" mode, getting through the injury that took him out for an entire month and hampered him for so much longer, and finally, just now, really hitting his stride as we go into the postseason. (His efg% is .533 since March 1st, compared to .476 on the entire season).

Lakers4ItAll
04-02-2009, 01:27 AM
No Melo isnt. What has he done to say he is? Being the 3rd pick doesn't mean ****

SeoulBeatz
04-02-2009, 01:28 AM
At this point hes proven hes about as much of a franchise player as Ron Artest has been, but hes been doing this since age 19 so he has the potential to become a Pierce type franchise guy. But hes gotta show up for the playoffs consistently for **** sake.

And I dont care how many of you say hes a better player this year, hes on his way towards doing that, but overall his season has been a disappointment. His health has played a factor, but the guy still has some lapses with his shot selection. This years playoffs will determine alot for alot of players this year.

yeah to me, Carmelo is in the same boat that pierce was before the big 3.
Big time guy with a ton of talent but at points you question his mentality and weather or not he can be a leader. Give Carmelo a great PF and he'll get you a chip with the help of Billups.

MossIsBoss
04-02-2009, 02:40 AM
He's a franchise player, the guy's got an attitude problem, but with Chauncey Billups he may make a run for a championship in the next few years. He's been with Allen Iverson the last couple of years, we all know how A.I. ruins team chemistry. Now that he's been replaced with a clutch, team first, guy in Billups who can actually distribute the ball and do it well and actually plays defense and doesn't force stupid shots they are waaaaay better.

NBA-FAN4EVER
04-02-2009, 02:44 AM
He is but on a second tier level. He's no in the same league as Chris Paul, Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Dwight Howard...

abe_froman
04-02-2009, 03:18 AM
i say yes,but bringing in ai really stunted his growth into one.but since seeing him off(ai),i think there has been a bounce back to the natural course he was taking before bringing in iverson,in being one.

DenButsu
04-02-2009, 04:09 AM
No Melo isnt. What has he done to say he is? Being the 3rd pick doesn't mean ****

Neither does arguing against the zero people who said that in this thread.

Faneik
04-02-2009, 05:48 AM
No.

Leadership isn't there.

adamsison
04-02-2009, 06:34 AM
are you guys kidding me....
he has made the playoff every year he has been in the league (in the west mind you)....remember jordan struggled in the playoffs until later in his career. (not comparing his game to jordan by any means). not to mention the best clutch player in the league. brought the nuggets organisation from nothing to a talked about contender.
he can score just as good as anyone in the league... his defense is improving.
Melo gets treated harshly judged by the league and everyone else.

i cant believe people are comparing him to ron artest. and people like kevin martin. lol you have got to be kidding me.

look at the mvp race. melo is in the top 15 and rising. dont forget he is still young.

He is already a franchise player who is only going to get better!

DenButsu
04-02-2009, 07:11 AM
No.

Leadership isn't there.

:rolleyes:

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Faneik
04-02-2009, 09:10 AM
:rolleyes:

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Just stating my opinion...

Please don't accuse me of flammimg this time.:D

BALLER71
04-02-2009, 09:14 AM
He has such a complete offensive game, it's hard to say he's not. I think he's a guy that you build around.

DenButsu
04-02-2009, 09:22 AM
Just stating my opinion...

Please don't accuse me of flammimg this time.:D

I'm not - just knew when I saw the last post was from you exactly what the gist would be, and that it would include a dig.

Chronz
04-02-2009, 05:44 PM
You said Pierce was a franchise player and that Melo wasn't. How so?

yeah to me, Carmelo is in the same boat that pierce was before the big 3.
Big time guy with a ton of talent but at points you question his mentality and weather or not he can be a leader.
Not really with Pierce it was the exact opposite, he lacked the big overall talent but he had the mentality that you knew he'd try his damnest to be the best player he could be.

Pierce before the Big3 had already made a name for himself as a playoff performer. In his first playoff series, in an elimination game 5 he dropped 46 on the defending Eastern Champs (8-10 From Distance). He had ridiculous moments against Indiana in a series that in all honesty shouldve gone in the Pacers direction. They stole HC in game 1 when Pierce outscored the entire Pacers team in the 4th alone the best part of that, he only took 5 shots. 5 FREAKING SHOTS (Maybe 6 I dont have the #'s with me but it was something sick) and he outscores the opposing team. Im sure you know all about his comeback game vs New Jersey when the C's were getting booed on their home floor and came roaring back to win. His legendary game 7 vs Bron, his defense on Kobe in the Finals. These are things Melo can only dream about. Dont insult Pierce like that, win or lose Pierce has always shown up in the playoffs. Well aside from the massacre against Indiana in 04.

I give Melo the fact that hes way ahead of the curve in terms of his development at his age and that his playoff blunders have come at an age when Pierce wasnt even sniffing the playoffs, but dont compare what theyve done or who they are when one player is clearly above the other.


Give Carmelo a great PF and he'll get you a chip with the help of Billups.
Give Pierce the team Melo has right now and He'll get you alot more wins. But in all seriousness for Melo to be a franchise player with his playing style hes going to have to be ALOT more efficient with his scoring

Chronz
04-02-2009, 06:19 PM
But he receives about 1/2 of the defensive effort opponents put forth right up in his face. Granted, he does try to force it too much, but without him on the court, the offensive rating of every single one of his teammates takes a dive because they stop getting open looks off of the doubles Melo gets.

Name to me a high usage superstar that doesnt do all that. Among players who carry such a burden only Zach Randolph, Carlos Boozer and Al Jefferson have a less impressive ratio of efficiency/usage and these are 2 guys on last place teams who are most definitely the focal point of opposing teams defenses. Boozer has been injured all year and is barely catching up to speed.

But your point of Melo attracting so much attention is definitely among the elite, there isnt a single player on the Nuggets roster that shoots a higher% when hes not on the floor, its just his individual offensive game thats lacking.


Not to me. For one thing, he actually started the season off in a MAJOR scoring slump. One big reason for it, imo, was he was making a deliberate effort to shift his game to a more defensive focus, and more rebounding/passing, and he just couldn't hold it all together simultaneously and maintain his previous shooting clip. He's also had this bone chip in his elbow all season that has jacked his shooting up pretty good.

It's been a season of big adjustments for him: Learning to play alongside Billups (I mean the transition from AI to Chauncey - talk about a bigtime readjustment), losing Camby and getting Nene back at the same time, the entire team shifting to a more defensive philosophy. Ignoring the statistics for a moment, I think one of the most impressive things about Melo this season has been his ability to weather all these changes in a very mature way, deferring leadership to Billups, buying into Karl's more D-oriented program, stepping up into more of a "lead by example" mode, getting through the injury that took him out for an entire month and hampered him for so much longer, and finally, just now, really hitting his stride as we go into the postseason. (His efg% is .533 since March 1st, compared to .476 on the entire season).
The day that Melo gos from a star to a superstar will be the day we can stop making excuses for him, look at Wade hes carrying a far greater load and is still incredibly efficient. Dirk is carrying a bigger load than he has in awhile and its effected his efficiency but he remains among the most efficient in the league. You can say hes been hurt but the truth is Melo has never been overly efficient throughout his career, hes been too turnover prone offering little in the way of assists with an average TS%.

Not saying I dont agree with your assessment, well mostly just agree with your stance on him being injured, I dont really buy all that transition stuff, and if true then Ive never seen a star player suffer so much by having to adjust to the players around him, so either way its not encouraging. Ive been hoping for awhile that the injuries have played the biggest role. Hes been on the upswing but it may be far too late in the season for him to deserve any recognition in the way of All-NBA recognition IMO. Luckily he has the aura of a player on a winning team and alot of people perceive him to be having as good of year as he ever has so like Tmac last year he may get an unwarranted spot.

JordansBulls
04-02-2009, 07:16 PM
Not really with Pierce it was the exact opposite, he lacked the big overall talent but he had the mentality that you knew he'd try his damnest to be the best player he could be.

Pierce before the Big3 had already made a name for himself as a playoff performer. In his first playoff series, in an elimination game 5 he dropped 46 on the defending Eastern Champs (8-10 From Distance). He had ridiculous moments against Indiana in a series that in all honesty shouldve gone in the Pacers direction. They stole HC in game 1 when Pierce outscored the entire Pacers team in the 4th alone the best part of that, he only took 5 shots. 5 FREAKING SHOTS (Maybe 6 I dont have the #'s with me but it was something sick) and he outscores the opposing team. Im sure you know all about his comeback game vs New Jersey when the C's were getting booed on their home floor and came roaring back to win. His legendary game 7 vs Bron, his defense on Kobe in the Finals. These are things Melo can only dream about. Dont insult Pierce like that, win or lose Pierce has always shown up in the playoffs. Well aside from the massacre against Indiana in 04.

I give Melo the fact that hes way ahead of the curve in terms of his development at his age and that his playoff blunders have come at an age when Pierce wasnt even sniffing the playoffs, but dont compare what theyve done or who they are when one player is clearly above the other.


Give Pierce the team Melo has right now and He'll get you alot more wins. But in all seriousness for Melo to be a franchise player with his playing style hes going to have to be ALOT more efficient with his scoring

You mean that game 7 at home where they lost by 27 points in 2005?

Chronz
04-02-2009, 08:41 PM
You mean that game 7 at home where they lost by 27 points in 2005?

No, he dominated in that series, easily one of his finest all-around series. Its not his fault Jeff Foster dominated the offensive glass, and that Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis flopped. I remember he had a few mental lapses that really couldve cost the team but his 2nd best player was a young Al Jefferson and a 37 year old Gary Payton.

If Jermaine hadnt been hurting that series wouldve been a sweep.

JordansBulls
04-03-2009, 12:04 AM
No, he dominated in that series, easily one of his finest all-around series. Its not his fault Jeff Foster dominated the offensive glass, and that Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis flopped. I remember he had a few mental lapses that really couldve cost the team but his 2nd best player was a young Al Jefferson and a 37 year old Gary Payton.

If Jermaine hadnt been hurting that series wouldve been a sweep.

You can't lose a game 7 at home by 27 points and not take the blame as the superstar. WTF!!!

GSW fan
04-03-2009, 12:51 AM
yes

Chronz
04-03-2009, 02:16 AM
You can't lose a game 7 at home by 27 points and not take the blame as the superstar. WTF!!!
What more was he suppose to do, he cant score every basket when the Pacers were loading up on him and he cant defend the entire Pacers squad. Ill admit he didnt play as well as he did in the games prior but he played even worse in game 1 and the C's won.

JayW_1023
04-03-2009, 04:37 AM
Pierce has had really erratic and really solid games before the big three came. Only when Allen and KG came on board it motivated Pierce enough to play well all the time...and because he has others now who draw the attention away from him, he can be a far more efficient player. as a result his mentailty of team first basketball was changed for good. He now trusts his teammates, where as in the past he didn't always rely on others to step up. I don't really blame Pierce for his lapses of uninspired play, playing alongside that chucker Antoine Walker...each contested three made the heart grow a little darker.

Melo has had a significant amount of talent around him for quite some time in his career, yet he still has lapses where he plays selfishly and only looking for his shot and being completely passive on D in the process. Right after the Billups trade, Melo was playing extremely well...but he has come back to his old pattern somewhat.

For him to be in LeBron/Wade/Kobe territory he has to become a willing passer, play solid defense and do the little things. Real superstars do more than just score.

IBleedPurple
04-03-2009, 10:54 AM
Pierce has had really erratic and really solid games before the big three came. Only when Allen and KG came on board it motivated Pierce enough to play well all the time...and because he has others now who draw the attention away from him, he can be a far more efficient player. as a result his mentailty of team first basketball was changed for good. He now trusts his teammates, where as in the past he didn't always rely on others to step up. I don't really blame Pierce for his lapses of uninspired play, playing alongside that chucker Antoine Walker...each contested three made the heart grow a little darker.

Melo has had a significant amount of talent around him for quite some time in his career, yet he still has lapses where he plays selfishly and only looking for his shot and being completely passive on D in the process. Right after the Billups trade, Melo was playing extremely well...but he has come back to his old pattern somewhat.

For him to be in LeBron/Wade/Kobe territory he has to become a willing passer, play solid defense and do the little things. Real superstars do more than just score.

You sir do not watch the Nuggets. Carmelo is playing very well. He is playing defense, and doesn't care as much about his ppg anymore as he does winning. He has been one of the keys to them winning lately.

JayW_1023
04-03-2009, 12:03 PM
You sir do not watch the Nuggets. Carmelo is playing very well. He is playing defense, and doesn't care as much about his ppg anymore as he does winning. He has been one of the keys to them winning lately.

You're prolly right..but I can't monitor every team closely. I have a life :D

JordansBulls
04-03-2009, 03:00 PM
What more was he suppose to do, he cant score every basket when the Pacers were loading up on him and he cant defend the entire Pacers squad. Ill admit he didnt play as well as he did in the games prior but he played even worse in game 1 and the C's won.

So if you admit he didn't play well, why are you critisizing Melo? Melo has yet to have any series with HCA. Pierce in that series had HCA and got blown out in Game 7 at home. I can understand losing a series with HCA and I can even understand losing a game 7 at home. But no way in hell should you lose a game 7 at home by 27 points.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-03-2009, 03:03 PM
I think he is. Its just with his injury and with Billups as the leader on the court that he hasn't been as good this year

I don't think Carmelo could be a leader(like take the blame and all that other stuff) but he is a franchise player.

Chronz
04-03-2009, 06:52 PM
So if you admit he didn't play well,
I said he didnt play as well as he did in the games prior and that in his worst game of the series his team still won, context is everything


why are you critisizing Melo?
Because hes no Pierce


Melo has yet to have any series with HCA. Pierce in that series had HCA and got blown out in Game 7 at home. I can understand losing a series with HCA and I can even understand losing a game 7 at home. But no way in hell should you lose a game 7 at home by 27 points.
Youve yet to explain why, you always say these things but you have to realize not every series is the same as every other, again CONTEXT.

HCA advantage was a result of them having more regular season wins, not because they were a superior team. The Pacers had to stand the trials and tribulations of the malice at the palace, as a result their top players all missed an absurd amount of games and their expected win-loss record was still only 1 game behind the Celtics. They got all their key players back for the playoffs and the bench gained some much needed experience, so again I ask you, what more was Pierce suppose to do? He couldnt score every bucket with them loading up on him, and he couldnt stop every player by himself. Basketball is about team work and cohesion, not about the super powers of 1 man being able to control his entire destiny.

JordansBulls
04-03-2009, 07:03 PM
I said he didnt play as well as he did in the games prior and that in his worst game of the series his team still won, context is everything


Because hes no Pierce


Youve yet to explain why, you always say these things but you have to realize not every series is the same as every other, again CONTEXT.

HCA advantage was a result of them having more regular season wins, not because they were a superior team. The Pacers had to stand the trials and tribulations of the malice at the palace, as a result their top players all missed an absurd amount of games and their expected win-loss record was still only 1 game behind the Celtics. They got all their key players back for the playoffs and the bench gained some much needed experience, so again I ask you, what more was Pierce suppose to do? He couldnt score every bucket with them loading up on him, and he couldnt stop every player by himself. Basketball is about team work and cohesion, not about the super powers of 1 man being able to control his entire destiny.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=250507002

It was a 3 point game at the half at 35-32. He only took 13 shots in that game. You can't take only 13 shots when you are the best player on the team in a game 7.

And the Celtics won game 6 after Pierce was ejected.

JJ81
04-03-2009, 10:01 PM
Yes.

Chronz
04-03-2009, 10:03 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=250507002

It was a 3 point game at the half at 35-32. He only took 13 shots in that game.
He was 5-7 (I dont count last second heaves) in the first half to keep it that close in an extremely low possession/low scoring game. After awhile teams tend to notice whats keeping the opposing team afloat, despite Pierce's efficiency everyone else was shooting horribly, what do you think comes next they force the ball out of his hands, they swarmed him and forced him to pass. He trusted his teammates and they let him down. I already said he couldve done better, but his teammates couldve done ALOT more considering the defensive attention they werent receiving, sadly you cant expect a donkey to become a stallion, and when matched up against superior players, the superior team usually wins out.


You can't take only 13 shots when you are the best player on the team in a game 7.
He wouldve taken more had the game been within reach, they subbed him out when the game got out of hand. And your not putting the possession count into proper context. In a low possession game those 13 shots are more like 18, then you account for the free throws and the turnovers and his passing and Pierce did his part in taking accountability of the teams offense. They lost because the Pacers were dominant on the offensive glass. None of the Pacers had to do as much for his team as Pierce did, to win. Yet you fault Pierce? That makes no sense


And the Celtics won game 6 after Pierce was ejected.
Yea and Reggie airballed the shot that couldve won the game, whats your point? Lakers won against the Pacers when Shaq fouled out. In Shaq's case Kobe stepped up, in Pierce's the Pacers choked Al Jefferson made a huge play and Walker hit a 3 and Jermaine missed a clean look, even MJ had a few games where the bench brought him back in it. These are the things that determine games, not the play of 1 man. Pierce played brilliant leading up to his ejection, without his performance they arent in position to win, thats all that matters. There are certain things that are out of your control.