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cre0530
03-25-2009, 01:04 PM
I hope I'm wrong and just skeptical because of the past but so far I haven't seen any real difference. Si I'm wondering if there are some who agree with me that Huntington despite all his carefully controlled press releases isn't any better than Littlefield or Bonifay?
Just like his predecessors he traded away our best players for failed prospects to dump salary. Like his predecessors he picks the starting lineup before a spring training game is played and despite the performance of better players has the manager and his staff make it happen. He picked a manager not for his managing ability but his ability to agree with him. Ok he drafted decent players with Alvarez being the best but how long will it be before he's traded to a contending team for more failed prospects?

nickster16301
03-25-2009, 01:26 PM
what prospects have failed? give him atleast three years before you can make that assumption. If tabata divorces his 2x older than him wife than he will be a stud. and in a couple years when people say we got him mccutcheon and ohlendorf and karstens for nady and marte they will drop their jaw in disbelief. and for the bay trade morris the pitcher has the potential to be an ace moss can be a good utility player once andrew mccutcheon and tabata are ready. If hanson can find his control he can be a closer finally andy laroche has been tearing it up this spring and looks like he might of finally figured it out by not over swinging every time. the difference between him and littlfield will be who he drafts in future drafts. with him drafting alvarez it looks like the pirates might be on to somethig big in a couple of years

sep11ie
03-25-2009, 01:50 PM
what prospects have failed? give him atleast three years before you can make that assumption. If tabata divorces his 2x older than him wife than he will be a stud. and in a couple years when people say we got him mccutcheon and ohlendorf and karstens for nady and marte they will drop their jaw in disbelief. and for the bay trade morris the pitcher has the potential to be an ace moss can be a good utility player once andrew mccutcheon and tabata are ready. If hanson can find his control he can be a closer finally andy laroche has been tearing it up this spring and looks like he might of finally figured it out by not over swinging every time. the difference between him and littlfield will be who he drafts in future drafts. with him drafting alvarez it looks like the pirates might be on to somethig big in a couple of years

We already had McCutcheon. He wasn't included in that trade. I think we could have done WWWAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY better for Bay. We got hosed on that deal.

jesusncleats
03-25-2009, 07:03 PM
We already had McCutcheon. He wasn't included in that trade. I think we could have done WWWAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY better for Bay. We got hosed on that deal.

Dan not Andrew:)

burgh_fan66
03-26-2009, 12:29 AM
in my opinion he is doing a better job but you really have to give him at least 3 years and see what the whole organization looks like. Most of his trades have been fairly sound so far so I am willing to wait and see on the Bay trade (not a fan of it, I think they should have been able to get a better pitching prospect).

Lets look at his trades:

Torres for Salas and Roberts - not such a great move as Torres could have been valuable last year. the prospects arent much but not much return can be expected for Torres
Todd Redmond for Yates - jury is still out but Yates seems to be a decent set up man
Player to be named for Jason Michaels - Michaels was a good bench player at a minimal price
Cash for Evan Meek - this may prove to be one of his best low profile moves
Pearson for D Bautista - push; pearson is not much of a prospect but Bautista contributed little
Cash for Reichart and Mulhern - dont know those players so no clue
Craig Wilson for player to be named - dont know who player was so tough to tell
Nady, Marte for Ohlendorf, Karstens, McCutchen, Tabata - I like this trade it gives us a good prospect and three decent arms for an average player having a career year and a lefty specialist in the last year of his contract
Bay for LaRoche, Moss, Hansen, Morris - I will leave this up to everyone else
J Bautista for Diaz - Bautista wasnt much of a player but Diaz isnt really proven either so seems like a push
Paulino for Jaramillo - another tough call but by the fact that the Phillies are already looking to move Paulino I think we win this one slightly


Its tough to call some of these because I dont know who completed some of them and the Bay trade I am leaving open for now but outside of those the only trade I see that as of right now I am definately willing to call a loss is his first Torres for Salas and Roberts.

Piratefan13
03-26-2009, 08:09 AM
Bay for LaRoche, Moss, Hansen, Morris - I will leave this up to everyone else

I'll tackle this one...

We weren't winning with Bay, and his price was about to go up...

Andy LaRoche and Brandon Moss will open some eyes this season, if you are basing the trade on the small sample size that was last year, than you are a very pessimistic person. Even if Moss and LaRoche don't work out, the Pirates still got a top of the rotation prospect in Bryan Morris. Most people tend not to mention this guy because he is still a ways from the ML club. Additionally, if Hanson can harness that power arm, this trade may end up being the deal breaker for upcoming championships. You have to give trades at least 3 years to see their actual worth.

Forget about Bay, we weren't going anywhere with him, now he might be a nice piece to add down the line when our core group is coming together.

cre0530
03-27-2009, 01:39 PM
Expanding a minor league system and a team that may be .500 or better by the 2012 season isn't good enough. Huntington has by all accounts traded established players for failed prospects. Failed prospects are those players the team that they came from had given up on. Morris was the only prospect that the team hadn't given up on he just happened to be so far down the scale of development they knew the risk was minimal as in the 3-5 years it takes for him to develop into a staff ace the chance of injury or loss of potential was just as likely.
Tabata is an excellent prospect and hopefully his attitude and off field problems that followed him are behind him. Player's teams gave up on LaRoche was beat out by a AA player who could consistently field and hit. Hanson's best era was .600 and never showed anything but inconsistent control. Moss has been injured every years since he was a senior in college. Jarimillo a weak hitting career minor league catcher who never lived up to his 2nd round potential. Not just these players but Morgan who failed last year as a lead off hitter and base runner is still penciled in as the starter in left field despite the performances of Monroe, Salazar and Pierce.
Also like Littlefield his bringing in one year rentals like Vazques and Hinske shows his lack of commitment of bringing in players now to expand the teams core.

nickster16301
03-27-2009, 07:52 PM
Expanding a minor league system and a team that may be .500 or better by the 2012 season isn't good enough. Huntington has by all accounts traded established players for failed prospects. Failed prospects are those players the team that they came from had given up on. Morris was the only prospect that the team hadn't given up on he just happened to be so far down the scale of development they knew the risk was minimal as in the 3-5 years it takes for him to develop into a staff ace the chance of injury or loss of potential was just as likely.
Tabata is an excellent prospect and hopefully his attitude and off field problems that followed him are behind him. Player's teams gave up on LaRoche was b out by a AA player who could consistently field and hit. Hanson's best era was .600 and never showed anything but inconsistent control. Moss has been injured every years since he was a senior in college. Jarimillo a weak hitting eatcareer minor league catcher who never lived up to his 2nd round potential. Not just these players but Morgan who failed last year as a lead off hitter and base runner is still penciled in as the starter in left field despite the performances of Monroe, Salazar and Pierce.
Also like Littlefield his bringing in one year rentals like Vazques and Hinske shows his lack of commitment of bringing in players now to expand the teams core.

what the heck do expect him to do keep bay and lose forever? that paragraph makes me question your intelligence....unlike littlefield NH rentals are not making eight mill.... give these trades a chance before you write this blasfimy

cre0530
03-28-2009, 12:18 PM
what the heck do expect him to do keep bay and lose forever? that paragraph makes me question your intelligence....unlike littlefield NH rentals are not making eight mill.... give these trades a chance before you write this blasfimy

Blasphemy? If I didn't know that I'd have to explain it I'd define it for you.

Your missing the point I never said we should have kept Bay or Nady but after 16 years of watching the pirates send decent established players to contribute on contending teams immediately while receiving little or nothing in return it gets old. OK Tabata is a future star for a mediocre team. However LaRoche and Moss showed last year why both the dodgers and Boston were willing to part with them. Sure LaRoche is doing well this spring but according to sporting news he did the same thing the last 2 spring trainings without being able to be more than a mediocre role player when he was on the dodgers 25 man roster which was rare. Moss is another Nady hurt all the time so if he doesn't get hurt and plays even close to what his prospect rating says it will be his first time. Some of the pitching prospects are intriguing but why wouldn't they be for a staff who's ace won 9 games last year. Both Snell and Duke are decent pitchers but have been labeled as useless and poor in other forums despite the fact that they aren't bad pitchers just victims of poor play and little run production to help them.
You can't tell me there weren't established younger FA's available this year that could have impacted this club and expanded the core of Mclouth and Doumitt. Hinske and Monroe were brought in because they were cheap along with the potential of possibly shopping them after the all-star game to contenders. This team's management core is paying lip service to the commitment of winning while their real commitment is to maintaining one of the lowest payrolls in MLB.