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View Full Version : Could Phoenix be the best team on paper EVER not to make the playoffs?



ProdigyI
03-18-2009, 12:47 PM
Shaq
Steve Nash
Grant Hill
Amare Stoudamire
Jason Richardson
Leandro Barbosa
Matt Barnes


Is this the best team on paper EVER not to make the playoffs
(they probably wont make it)

If you disagree, name the team.

b_rad23
03-18-2009, 01:09 PM
In name value it would be but Grant Hill and Shaq are not the prime Grant Hill and Shaq. Neither is Nash. Their studs just got old fast and they can't play defense.

The Clippers might even be a better team on paper that aren't making the playoffs.

Baron Davis
Eric Gordon
Al Thornton
Zach Randolph
Chris Kaman
Camby
Ricky Davis
Fred Jones
DeAndre Jordan (he's pretty sick)

superkegger
03-18-2009, 01:10 PM
They're probably the only team with a collective 6 MVP's (3 Fianls MVP's and 1 regular season MVP, and 2 regular season MVP's for Nash) to not make the playoffs. They probably are the greatest collection of individual talent to miss the playoffs yes.

But they're not a good team. They have some dynamic individual talents, but they are not a good team.

JordansBulls
03-18-2009, 01:16 PM
I think the 1990 Hawks were better. They had Dominique Wilkins, Moses Malone, Kevin Willis, Doc Rivers, Spud Webb. 4 of those guys played 80+ games as well.

what54!?
03-18-2009, 01:37 PM
thats 04 lakers team team could make a case has well. Kobe, Shaq, Malone, and payton. I know payton and malone were past their primes but still on paper, four future HoFers

ProdigyI
03-18-2009, 01:42 PM
thats 04 lakers team team could make a case has well. Kobe, Shaq, Malone, and payton. I know payton and malone were past their primes but still on paper, four future HoFers

Im pretty sure that 04 lakers team went to the finals.....:laugh:

were talking about not making the playoffs

what54!?
03-18-2009, 01:44 PM
Im pretty sure that 04 lakers team went to the finals.....:laugh:

were talking about not making the playoffsoh my fault I didn't read the entire thread :laugh:

yeah I guess that suns team is

tkshy
03-18-2009, 01:47 PM
There has got to be some Knick teams recently that on paper should have made the playoffs, especially in the East. At least PHX kinda has an excuse. The West is tough.
Starbury,Curry,Randolph,Francis,Crawford,Nate,Lee, and did I mention in the EAST?

ink
03-18-2009, 01:48 PM
Good thread. It just shows that you can't just assemble a playoff team out of great players. I still think Shaq just upsets the chemistry of what was left of the Suns. The parts they added after that trade did nothing to resolve the conflict of styles they had going. Definitely proof that the sum has to be greater than the parts.

THE MTL
03-18-2009, 01:52 PM
The Clippers team looks FANTASTIC on paper and that team hasnt been together this season either with all the injuries.

I wanna see how good that team really can be next season with everyone healthy.

Baron Davis
Eric Gordon
Al Thorton
Zach Randolph
Marcus Camby
Chris Kaman

THAT IS A SICK CORE GROUP OF GUYS!!!!

THE MTL
03-18-2009, 01:54 PM
Remember that Amare hasnt been playing since like the allstar break, so that team def. would be much closer to the playoffs.

BkOriginalOne
03-18-2009, 01:57 PM
They're probably the only team with a collective 6 MVP's (3 Fianls MVP's and 1 regular season MVP, and 2 regular season MVP's for Nash) to not make the playoffs. They probably are the greatest collection of individual talent to miss the playoffs yes.

But they're not a good team. They have some dynamic individual talents, but they are not a good team.

Don't forget Grant Hill's NCAA Championship, as well as him, Shaq and Amare's gold medals.

superkegger
03-18-2009, 02:08 PM
The Clippers team looks FANTASTIC on paper and that team hasnt been together this season either with all the injuries.

I wanna see how good that team really can be next season with everyone healthy.

Baron Davis
Eric Gordon
Al Thorton
Zach Randolph
Marcus Camby
Chris Kaman

THAT IS A SICK CORE GROUP OF GUYS!!!!

Yeah, but you forgot, they have ricky davis, which cancels out all talent any team ever has.

KnicksorBust
03-18-2009, 02:48 PM
Shaq
Steve Nash
Grant Hill
Amare Stoudamire
Jason Richardson
Leandro Barbosa
Matt Barnes


Is this the best team on paper EVER not to make the playoffs
(they probably wont make it)

If you disagree, name the team.


Without a doubt. I'm stunned. The West #1-#9 is simply phenomenal and has been the past few seasons. I think people need to stop knocking them for not meshing together. They would be what a 5 seed in the East? It's more the conference than their lack of ability to win games. Before Amare went down they were right in the hunt.

ink
03-18-2009, 02:52 PM
Without a doubt. I'm stunned. The West #1-#9 is simply phenomenal and has been the past few seasons. I think people need to stop knocking them for not meshing together. They would be what a 5 seed in the East? It's more the conference than their lack of ability to win games. Before Amare went down they were right in the hunt.

There's no doubt they'd make the playoffs in the East but even Suns fans know all too well that the roster hasn't meshed. They've had major injury issues, a fired coach, and a season of confusion. It's been too difficult to say that they'd be fine if only they were in the East. That would help but it wouldn't be enough. They'd still have problems coming together anywhere near as well as the Suns teams that preceded them.

IRUAM #21
03-18-2009, 02:52 PM
Yeah, but you forgot, they have ricky davis, which cancels out all talent any team ever has.

Ricky Davis :pity:

DrDEADalready
03-18-2009, 02:55 PM
No cause most of them are past their prime. still good. but just not where they were. if they were in there prime without a doubt they would be.

king4day
03-18-2009, 02:56 PM
To be fair, the suns were not the 9 seed when Amare went down (I would be wrong on this, but none the less). So you probably should remove his name from the list since, if this team isn't going to make the playoffs, he's not part of the reason why.

#1LakersFan
03-18-2009, 03:00 PM
no

they don't play defense

ink
03-18-2009, 03:01 PM
no

they don't play defense

Wonderful insight. Thank you.

king4day
03-18-2009, 03:01 PM
Don't forget Grant Hill's NCAA Championship, as well as him, Shaq and Amare's gold medals.

Amare wasn't on the Gold medal team.

Chronz
03-18-2009, 06:51 PM
How can you be talented on paper if there are a bunch of DNP's next to those names? Anyone saying the Clippers are talented has a serious issue when it comes to evaluating talent, the mere mentioning of Al Thornton as a talented player is upsetting, hes athletically gifted but talent is much more than being blessed with athleticism, I consider basketball IQ and overall awareness to be a talent.


Good thread. It just shows that you can't just assemble a playoff team out of great players. I still think Shaq just upsets the chemistry of what was left of the Suns. The parts they added after that trade did nothing to resolve the conflict of styles they had going. Definitely proof that the sum has to be greater than the parts.
It wasnt Shaq that offset the chemistry, it was Terry Porter, he held everyone back from doing what they were meant to do. The team has been on a great run since he took over and theyve done this without their best player. Everyone has thrived in the new 7 seconds or Shaq offense, Shaq included.

ink
03-18-2009, 07:09 PM
It wasnt Shaq that offset the chemistry, it was Terry Porter, he held everyone back from doing what they were meant to do. The team has been on a great run since he took over and theyve done this without their best player. Everyone has thrived in the new 7 seconds or Shaq offense, Shaq included.

Oh I know all about the problems with Porter, but the Shaq experiment will not be remembered as a success. They have good flashes but they're frustratingly unable to hold it together for any continued success.

Chronz
03-18-2009, 07:15 PM
Why not, Shaq has played well and Marion was becoming cancerous and has been on a decline for awhile now, it was a great trade. Its not Shaq's fault that they fired DAntoni, the Suns offense has never looked so great and theyve done this without their best player so its fair to say the trade wasnt a failure. And the inability to sustain it is due to the fact that they lost their best player, thats hardly Shaqs fault either.

ink
03-18-2009, 07:20 PM
Why not, Shaq has played well and Marion was becoming cancerous and has been on a decline for awhile now, it was a great trade. Its not Shaq's fault that they fired DAntoni, the Suns offense has never looked so great and theyve done this without their best player so its fair to say the trade wasnt a failure.

I actually agree with all that, but the team after the Shaq trade has never developed either an identity or sustained success.

The team was finished last year IMO. It was hard to accept but they were just done. Trading for Shaq was an attempt to inject new ideas and energy into the team, but the moves have been forced and they just haven't stuck.

I'm not blaming Shaq as much as I'm saying that the post-Marion era has been disappointingly unsuccessful. It's hard to watch a spectacular team like the Suns decline. IMO they were the most exciting team of the decade bar none.

McJoe
03-18-2009, 07:20 PM
I think the saddest part about this Phoenix team is that the NBA is so unbalanced that this Suns team would be 5th in the ****ing East :pity:

The Blue Baller
03-18-2009, 07:54 PM
I think the saddest part about this Phoenix team is that the NBA is so unbalanced that this Suns team would be 5th in the ****ing East :pity:

?
Lakers
West: 36-7
East: 17-7

Spurs
West: 29-12
East: 16-10

Rockets
West: 28-13
East: 16-12

Denver
West: 26-14
East: 17-11

Portland
West: 22-19
East: 20-6

NO
West: 23-15
East: 18-10

Utah
West: 28-11
East: 14-15

Dallas
West: 22-20
East: 19-7

Suns
West: 22-17
East: 14-14


Please explain to me why the East is so weak when the top teams in the West (Besides Portland and Dallas) have a lower winning percentage against them?
The East is a lot more competitive than people think-- it's not their fault they don't get 50 wins a season by playing 6 cupcake teams 4 times a year each.

Chronz
03-18-2009, 07:59 PM
I actually agree with all that, but the team after the Shaq trade has never developed either an identity or sustained success.

The team was finished last year IMO. It was hard to accept but they were just done. Trading for Shaq was an attempt to inject new ideas and energy into the team, but the moves have been forced and they just haven't stuck.

I'm not blaming Shaq as much as I'm saying that the post-Marion era has been disappointingly unsuccessful. It's hard to watch a spectacular team like the Suns decline. IMO they were the most exciting team of the decade bar none.
Well explain to me how they were suppose to have sustained success when the coach was holding them back and when they finally got the right coach and philosophy in place again they lose their best player. Its an unfortunate sequence of events. They wouldnt have been world beaters but they are still better off with this current group than they wouldve been with a disgruntled Marion killing the team from the inside.

KobeIs
03-18-2009, 08:40 PM
im gonna go wit the clippers. i actually had high hopes for them this season. i actually thought they were gonna do better than portland.

ink
03-18-2009, 09:26 PM
Well explain to me how they were suppose to have sustained success when the coach was holding them back and when they finally got the right coach and philosophy in place again they lose their best player. Its an unfortunate sequence of events. They wouldnt have been world beaters but they are still better off with this current group than they wouldve been with a disgruntled Marion killing the team from the inside.

We're both saying very similar things. I'm just marking the point when things started unravelling at the Marion-Shaq trade. Not assigning blame just noting that the moves since then have not resulted in a winning culture. Believe me I'm disappointed, since I'm a Suns fan.

JordansBulls
03-18-2009, 10:00 PM
?
Lakers
West: 36-7
East: 17-7

Spurs
West: 29-12
East: 16-10

Rockets
West: 28-13
East: 16-12

Denver
West: 26-14
East: 17-11

Portland
West: 22-19
East: 20-6

NO
West: 23-15
East: 18-10

Utah
West: 28-11
East: 14-15

Dallas
West: 22-20
East: 19-7

Suns
West: 22-17
East: 14-14


Please explain to me why the East is so weak when the top teams in the West (Besides Portland and Dallas) have a lower winning percentage against them?
The East is a lot more competitive than people think-- it's not their fault they don't get 50 wins a season by playing 6 cupcake teams 4 times a year each.


Great point!!!