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JordansBulls
03-15-2009, 10:17 PM
Let the show go on!!!:D

IRUAM #21
03-15-2009, 10:34 PM
Dwyane Wade... ok guys start arguing

MickeyMgl
03-15-2009, 11:08 PM
1. Bryant
2. James

(gap; 1st two could go either way, depending on how the teams finish)

3. Howard
4. Paul
5. Wade

still1ballin
03-15-2009, 11:14 PM
i am surprised the 1st 10 posts arn't heat fans saying wade is mvp...only one is Iraum.....the rest are slacking!

HoLLyWooD PLK
03-16-2009, 12:15 AM
Bryant/James, Howard, Billups, Wade

mrs rose
03-16-2009, 12:26 AM
wade...
and thats all that matters...
wade
howard
lbj
chris paul
gasol... yea no kobe

codes238
03-16-2009, 12:44 AM
the award is lebron's to lose at this point and i dont see him doing anything in the last 15 games of the season that would make him lose it... if you cant see that youre just a delusional homer!

lakerboy
03-16-2009, 12:47 AM
Damn. Kobe was clutch against the Mavs. Definitely in a league of his own!

superkegger
03-16-2009, 01:02 AM
Iím going to make my peace with this. Iím tired of arguing with Wade fans about why Wade wonít be the MVP, or about why Kobe deserved it last year, and all that nonsense.

Wade is a phenomenal player. Going into this summer, I think a lot of people were looking to see what Wade was going to do, because quite frankly, we hadnít really seen the Wade that can dominate in 2 years. He showed up in Beijing. He showed up to play this season. When Kobe and LeBron had somewhat taken over the stage, and people had forgotten about Wade, he showed itís not just a Kobe and LeBron duel, but it is in fact a trio.

With that said.

Wade is not the most qualified MVP candidate.

Is he the most outstanding player this year? Absolutely.

Is he just as good as Kobe and LeBron? Absolutely.

But, when it comes to the MVP, there are certain criteria that he falls short of. Namely, winning; like it or not, agree with it or not, it is simply part of the award, has been since it's inception.

Now, I know Heat fans don't want to hear that, they constatly say it's stupid to do so. But the MVP is about winning. The MVP hasn't simply been awarded to the best talent. If it were, then it very well probably would go to Wade this year, but winning is part of the MVP. You need to seperate what you think the MVP should be, and what the reality of it is, because they are clearly two different things.

In the 53 year history of the MVP, only 5 (Petit í56, McAdoo í75, Kareem í75, M. Malone í79 andí82) of the MVPís didnít come from a team that won either
50+ wins in a 82 game season.
49+ wins in a 80 game season.
48+ wins in a 79 game season.
46+ wins in a 75 game season.
44+ wins in a 72 game season.
31+ wins in a 50 game season. (1998-1999 strike shortened season)

(50 wins in an 82 game season = a winning percentage of .609)

Likewise, in those 53 years, hereís a break down of where the MVPís team finished in the NBA ranks record wise.

1st or 2nd: 45
3rd or 4th:3
5th or worse: 5

Now, when you take all that in, you see just how important winning actually is. The MVP has repeatedly awarded players for winning, and doing so in such a fashion that is noteworthy for their individual performance.

Now, the Heat could win 50 games, if they go 16-0 over their last 16 games, theyíd end up with 52 wins. So if they go 14-2 over their last 16, they would indeed finish with 50 wins. Of course, the Heat also havenít won more than 4 games in a row at any point this season. They also play Boston twice, Orlando twice, Detroit twice, as well as Atlanta, New Orleans and Dallas, and 10 of the final 16 are on the road, where the Heat are 12-19. You can use your ďanything is possibleĒ argument all you want, but if youíre going to be realistic, 50 wins looks like a pretty steep order at this point. At this point, finishing with their projected 45 wins wouldnít be a bad accomplishment. 50 wins though, it looks bleak.

Furthermore, using the arguments of, ďKobe and LeBron have better supporting casts.Ē does not fly. Otherwise Magic Johnson and Larry Bird would have exactly 0 MVPís. They played on amazing teams, and lead those teams in spectacular fashion. Itís pretty much a non issue. Unless someone were literally playing with NBDL players and still won 50+ games would it really be an issue, but that isnít happening and never will happen. Playing with other good players has never hurt anybodyís chances at the MVP, and it will not hamper it this year.

Furthermore, I know some Wade fans will make the argument that Wade is statistically better. Which in some cases is true. But overall, his stats are not far and away better than LeBron and Kobeís.

These stats from March 13th, and not much has really changed since then (Today is March 15th). Kobe and LeBron have played 1 game, Wade has played 2.

LeBron PPG: 28.3
Kobe PPG: 28.0
Wade PPG: 29.7

LeBron RPG: 7.5
Kobe RPG: 5.4
Wade RPG: 5.1

LeBron APG: 7.2
Kobe APG: 4.9
Wade APG: 7.7

LeBron TOPG: 3.1
Kobe TOPG: 2.6
Wade TOPG: 3.5

LeBron BPG: 1.2
Kobe BPG: .5
Wade BPG: 1.4

LeBron SPG: 1.7
Kobe SPG: 1.3
Wade SPG: 2.3

LeBron FG%: 48.6
Kobe FG%: 47.4
Wade FG%: 49.5

LeBron MPG: 37.7
Kobe MPG: 36.5
Wade MPG: 38.5

LeBron 3pt%: 33.3
Kobe 3pt %: 34
Wade 3 pt %: 31.4

LeBron FT%: 77.1%
Kobe FT%: 86.8%
Wade FT%: 76.6%

LeBron PER: 31.3
Kobe PER: 25.3
Wade PER: 30.5

LeBron Offensive Rating: 120.7
Kobe Offensive Rating: 116.5
Wade Offensive Rating: 115

LeBron Defensive Rating: 98.6
Kobe Deffensive Rating: 107
Wade Defensive Rating: 105

LeBron Offensive Win Shares: 10.2
Kobe Offensive Win Shares: 7.9
Wade Offensive Win shares: 8.4

LeBron Defensive Win Shares: 5.1
Kobe Defensive Win Shares: 2.9
Wade Defensive Win shares: 3.4

LeBron Total Win Shares: 15.3
Kobe Total Win Shares: 10.8
Wade Total Win shares: 11.9

LeBron Usage %: 34.0
Kobe Usage %: 33.0
Wade Usage %: 35.6

LeBron Effective FG%: .525
Kobe Effective FG%: .505
Wade Effective FG%: .518

LeBron True Shooting%: .586
Kobe True Shooting %: .567
Wade True Shooting %: .575

On/Off court statistics

LeBron Offense: Points per 100 possessions: +16.8
Kobe Offense: Points per 100 possessions: +12.2
Wade Offense: Points per 100 possessions: +14.6

LeBron Defense: Points per 100 possessions: -8.3
Kobe Defense: Points per 100 possessions: +0.4
Wade Defense: Points per 100 possessions: -4.4

LeBron Net Points per 100 possessions: +25.2
Kobe Net Points per 100 possessions: +11.8
Wade Net Points per 100 possessions: +19

Clutch stats:
Production per 48 minutes in crunch time (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points)

LeBron points per 48 min in crunch time: 53.3
Kobe points per 48 min in crunch time: 59.3
Wade points per 48 min in crunch time: 52.7

LeBron TO per 48 min in crunch time: 6.3
Kobe TO per 48 min in crunch time: 2.8
Wade TO per 48 min in crunch time: 4.3

LeBron assists per 48 min in crunch time: 12.5
Kobe assists per 48 min in crunch time: 6.1
Wade assists per 48 min in crunch time: 10.3

LeBron rebounds per 48 min in crunch time: 15.7
Kobe rebounds per 48 min in crunch time: 8.5
Wade rebounds per 48 min in crunch time: 4.7

LeBron FT% per 48 min in crunch time: 86%
Kobe FT% per 48 min in crunch time: 90%
Wade FT% per 48 min in crunch time: 72%

LeBron 3pt % per 48 min in crunch time: .462
Kobe 3pt % per 48 min in crunch time: .435
Wade 3pt % per 48 min in crunch time: .320

LeBron fg% per 48 min in crunch time: .522
Kobe fg% per 48 min in crunch time: .485
Wade fg% per 48 min in crunch time: .510

LeBron blocks per 48 min in crunch time: 0.6
Kobe blocks per 48 min in crunch time: 0.0
Wade blocks per 48 min in crunch time: 5.7

LeBron steals per 48 min in crunch time: 2.5
Kobe steals per 48 min in crunch time: 1.2
Wade steals per 48 min in crunch time: 3.7

Now, if you donít know what these stats all mean, I encourage you to go to http://www.basketball-refernce.com and http://www.82games.com and take a look at their stats, at the definitions of what some of those stats mean if youíre not aware.

But what the stats tell us, is that if there is any edge in being statistically better, if probably gives the Edge to LeBron. Heís plays the largest role for his team both offensively and defensively, and he does it the most efficiently and furthermore, heís been incredibly good in crunch time.

So really, when you actually take time to consider what the MVP is, and it is not an award for the most outstanding talent, it becomes pretty clear, that barring an absolute miracle, Wade will not be MVP.

Iím not hating on Dwyane. Heís playing on the highest level there is. Wade, LeBron and Kobe are absolutely amazing players, and watching them is a joy. But when it comes down to who the MVP is, itís a two horse sprint to the finish between LeBron and Kobe.

Vinny642
03-16-2009, 01:14 AM
More stats zzzZZZZzzzzz
they get tiring to read after a while. i already stated all i had to now i'll just argue anything stupid someone says

Master Mind
03-16-2009, 01:33 AM
If Wade isn't at least in the top 3 of the list there's a problem...You know what, I don't even want him to win it--that would give him more motivation to prove naysayers wrong going into the playoffs...

Vinny642
03-16-2009, 01:37 AM
If Wade isn't at least in the top 3 of the list there's a problem...You know what, I don't even want him to win it--that would give him more motivation to prove naysayers wrong going into the playoffs...

If Wade isn't top 3 people are on crack, what he is doing is pretty nice.

abe_froman
03-16-2009, 01:37 AM
gotta say wades pulled ahead for it,but no means a lock

laboy09
03-16-2009, 01:39 AM
wade...
and thats all that matters...
wade
howard
lbj
chris paul
gasol... yea no kobe


lol not kobe? your funny
Its going to be either kobe or Wade
I want kobe but if that doesnt happen give it to Wade
Lebron is good but not good enough to be given MVP yet

Vinny642
03-16-2009, 01:44 AM
lol not kobe? your funny
Its going to be either kobe or Wade
I want kobe but if that doesnt happen give it to Wade
Lebron is good but not good enough to be given MVP yet

What???:speechless: him for the best player in the league can be argue'd.
He is leading his team to a top 2 record in the NBA, he puts up the numbers. I dont see why he shouldn't win it.

codes238
03-16-2009, 05:36 AM
superkegger's post is 100% correct, he layed it out for even the simplest of minds to be able to understand! idd love for wade to win the MVP but the truth is lebrons getting it this year and unless youre being completely delusional and bias there isnt a whole lot to argue with that since lebrons having an absolutely ridiculous season...

JordansBulls
03-16-2009, 10:22 AM
I’m going to make my peace with this. I’m tired of arguing with Wade fans about why Wade won’t be the MVP, or about why Kobe deserved it last year, and all that nonsense.

Wade is a phenomenal player. Going into this summer, I think a lot of people were looking to see what Wade was going to do, because quite frankly, we hadn’t really seen the Wade that can dominate in 2 years. He showed up in Beijing. He showed up to play this season. When Kobe and LeBron had somewhat taken over the stage, and people had forgotten about Wade, he showed it’s not just a Kobe and LeBron duel, but it is in fact a trio.

With that said.

Wade is not the most qualified MVP candidate.

Is he the most outstanding player this year? Absolutely.

Is he just as good as Kobe and LeBron? Absolutely.

But, when it comes to the MVP, there are certain criteria that he falls short of. Namely, winning; like it or not, agree with it or not, it is simply part of the award, has been since it's inception.

Now, I know Heat fans don't want to hear that, they constatly say it's stupid to do so. But the MVP is about winning. The MVP hasn't simply been awarded to the best talent. If it were, then it very well probably would go to Wade this year, but winning is part of the MVP. You need to seperate what you think the MVP should be, and what the reality of it is, because they are clearly two different things.

In the 53 year history of the MVP, only 5 (Petit ’56, McAdoo ’75, Kareem ’75, M. Malone ’79 and’82) of the MVP’s didn’t come from a team that won either
50+ wins in a 82 game season.
49+ wins in a 80 game season.
48+ wins in a 79 game season.
46+ wins in a 75 game season.
44+ wins in a 72 game season.
31+ wins in a 50 game season. (1998-1999 strike shortened season)

(50 wins in an 82 game season = a winning percentage of .609)

Likewise, in those 53 years, here’s a break down of where the MVP’s team finished in the NBA ranks record wise.

1st or 2nd: 45
3rd or 4th:3
5th or worse: 5

Now, when you take all that in, you see just how important winning actually is. The MVP has repeatedly awarded players for winning, and doing so in such a fashion that is noteworthy for their individual performance.

Now, the Heat could win 50 games, if they go 16-0 over their last 16 games, they’d end up with 52 wins. So if they go 14-2 over their last 16, they would indeed finish with 50 wins. Of course, the Heat also haven’t won more than 4 games in a row at any point this season. They also play Boston twice, Orlando twice, Detroit twice, as well as Atlanta, New Orleans and Dallas, and 10 of the final 16 are on the road, where the Heat are 12-19. You can use your “anything is possible” argument all you want, but if you’re going to be realistic, 50 wins looks like a pretty steep order at this point. At this point, finishing with their projected 45 wins wouldn’t be a bad accomplishment. 50 wins though, it looks bleak.

Furthermore, using the arguments of, “Kobe and LeBron have better supporting casts.” does not fly. Otherwise Magic Johnson and Larry Bird would have exactly 0 MVP’s. They played on amazing teams, and lead those teams in spectacular fashion. It’s pretty much a non issue. Unless someone were literally playing with NBDL players and still won 50+ games would it really be an issue, but that isn’t happening and never will happen. Playing with other good players has never hurt anybody’s chances at the MVP, and it will not hamper it this year.

Furthermore, I know some Wade fans will make the argument that Wade is statistically better. Which in some cases is true. But overall, his stats are not far and away better than LeBron and Kobe’s.

These stats from March 13th, and not much has really changed since then (Today is March 15th). Kobe and LeBron have played 1 game, Wade has played 2.

LeBron PPG: 28.3
Kobe PPG: 28.0
Wade PPG: 29.7

LeBron RPG: 7.5
Kobe RPG: 5.4
Wade RPG: 5.1

LeBron APG: 7.2
Kobe APG: 4.9
Wade APG: 7.7

LeBron TOPG: 3.1
Kobe TOPG: 2.6
Wade TOPG: 3.5

LeBron BPG: 1.2
Kobe BPG: .5
Wade BPG: 1.4

LeBron SPG: 1.7
Kobe SPG: 1.3
Wade SPG: 2.3

LeBron FG%: 48.6
Kobe FG%: 47.4
Wade FG%: 49.5

LeBron MPG: 37.7
Kobe MPG: 36.5
Wade MPG: 38.5

LeBron 3pt%: 33.3
Kobe 3pt %: 34
Wade 3 pt %: 31.4

LeBron FT%: 77.1%
Kobe FT%: 86.8%
Wade FT%: 76.6%

LeBron PER: 31.3
Kobe PER: 25.3
Wade PER: 30.5

LeBron Offensive Rating: 120.7
Kobe Offensive Rating: 116.5
Wade Offensive Rating: 115

LeBron Defensive Rating: 98.6
Kobe Deffensive Rating: 107
Wade Defensive Rating: 105

LeBron Offensive Win Shares: 10.2
Kobe Offensive Win Shares: 7.9
Wade Offensive Win shares: 8.4

LeBron Defensive Win Shares: 5.1
Kobe Defensive Win Shares: 2.9
Wade Defensive Win shares: 3.4

LeBron Total Win Shares: 15.3
Kobe Total Win Shares: 10.8
Wade Total Win shares: 11.9

LeBron Usage %: 34.0
Kobe Usage %: 33.0
Wade Usage %: 35.6

LeBron Effective FG%: .525
Kobe Effective FG%: .505
Wade Effective FG%: .518

LeBron True Shooting%: .586
Kobe True Shooting %: .567
Wade True Shooting %: .575

On/Off court statistics

LeBron Offense: Points per 100 possessions: +16.8
Kobe Offense: Points per 100 possessions: +12.2
Wade Offense: Points per 100 possessions: +14.6

LeBron Defense: Points per 100 possessions: -8.3
Kobe Defense: Points per 100 possessions: +0.4
Wade Defense: Points per 100 possessions: -4.4

LeBron Net Points per 100 possessions: +25.2
Kobe Net Points per 100 possessions: +11.8
Wade Net Points per 100 possessions: +19

Clutch stats:
Production per 48 minutes in crunch time (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points)

LeBron points per 48 min in crunch time: 53.3
Kobe points per 48 min in crunch time: 59.3
Wade points per 48 min in crunch time: 52.7

LeBron TO per 48 min in crunch time: 6.3
Kobe TO per 48 min in crunch time: 2.8
Wade TO per 48 min in crunch time: 4.3

LeBron assists per 48 min in crunch time: 12.5
Kobe assists per 48 min in crunch time: 6.1
Wade assists per 48 min in crunch time: 10.3

LeBron rebounds per 48 min in crunch time: 15.7
Kobe rebounds per 48 min in crunch time: 8.5
Wade rebounds per 48 min in crunch time: 4.7

LeBron FT% per 48 min in crunch time: 86%
Kobe FT% per 48 min in crunch time: 90%
Wade FT% per 48 min in crunch time: 72%

LeBron 3pt % per 48 min in crunch time: .462
Kobe 3pt % per 48 min in crunch time: .435
Wade 3pt % per 48 min in crunch time: .320

LeBron fg% per 48 min in crunch time: .522
Kobe fg% per 48 min in crunch time: .485
Wade fg% per 48 min in crunch time: .510

LeBron blocks per 48 min in crunch time: 0.6
Kobe blocks per 48 min in crunch time: 0.0
Wade blocks per 48 min in crunch time: 5.7

LeBron steals per 48 min in crunch time: 2.5
Kobe steals per 48 min in crunch time: 1.2
Wade steals per 48 min in crunch time: 3.7

Now, if you don’t know what these stats all mean, I encourage you to go to http://www.basketball-refernce.com and http://www.82games.com and take a look at their stats, at the definitions of what some of those stats mean if you’re not aware.

But what the stats tell us, is that if there is any edge in being statistically better, if probably gives the Edge to LeBron. He’s plays the largest role for his team both offensively and defensively, and he does it the most efficiently and furthermore, he’s been incredibly good in crunch time.

So really, when you actually take time to consider what the MVP is, and it is not an award for the most outstanding talent, it becomes pretty clear, that barring an absolute miracle, Wade will not be MVP.

I’m not hating on Dwyane. He’s playing on the highest level there is. Wade, LeBron and Kobe are absolutely amazing players, and watching them is a joy. But when it comes down to who the MVP is, it’s a two horse sprint to the finish between LeBron and Kobe.

Great post !!!

:clap:


I think some of these guys need to get some love as these are the top 5 guys in Win Shares this season.

Win Shares

1. LeBron James-CLE 15.9
2. Chris Paul-NOH 13.5
3. Dwyane Wade-MIA 12.1
4. Dwight Howard-ORL 11.6
5. Pau Gasol-LAL 11.5

Personally I feel you need to lead the league in something as well to get the MVP. Whether it is scoring, rebounding, assists, etc or Win Shares, PER, etc.

still1ballin
03-16-2009, 10:45 AM
Iím going to make my peace with this. Iím tired of arguing with Wade fans about why Wade wonít be the MVP, or about why Kobe deserved it last year, and all that nonsense.

Wade is a phenomenal player. Going into this summer, I think a lot of people were looking to see what Wade was going to do, because quite frankly, we hadnít really seen the Wade that can dominate in 2 years. He showed up in Beijing. He showed up to play this season. When Kobe and LeBron had somewhat taken over the stage, and people had forgotten about Wade, he showed itís not just a Kobe and LeBron duel, but it is in fact a trio.

With that said.

Wade is not the most qualified MVP candidate.

Is he the most outstanding player this year? Absolutely.

Is he just as good as Kobe and LeBron? Absolutely.

But, when it comes to the MVP, there are certain criteria that he falls short of. Namely, winning; like it or not, agree with it or not, it is simply part of the award, has been since it's inception.

Now, I know Heat fans don't want to hear that, they constatly say it's stupid to do so. But the MVP is about winning. The MVP hasn't simply been awarded to the best talent. If it were, then it very well probably would go to Wade this year, but winning is part of the MVP. You need to seperate what you think the MVP should be, and what the reality of it is, because they are clearly two different things.

In the 53 year history of the MVP, only 5 (Petit í56, McAdoo í75, Kareem í75, M. Malone í79 andí82) of the MVPís didnít come from a team that won either
50+ wins in a 82 game season.
49+ wins in a 80 game season.
48+ wins in a 79 game season.
46+ wins in a 75 game season.
44+ wins in a 72 game season.
31+ wins in a 50 game season. (1998-1999 strike shortened season)

(50 wins in an 82 game season = a winning percentage of .609)

Likewise, in those 53 years, hereís a break down of where the MVPís team finished in the NBA ranks record wise.

1st or 2nd: 45
3rd or 4th:3
5th or worse: 5

Now, when you take all that in, you see just how important winning actually is. The MVP has repeatedly awarded players for winning, and doing so in such a fashion that is noteworthy for their individual performance.

Now, the Heat could win 50 games, if they go 16-0 over their last 16 games, theyíd end up with 52 wins. So if they go 14-2 over their last 16, they would indeed finish with 50 wins. Of course, the Heat also havenít won more than 4 games in a row at any point this season. They also play Boston twice, Orlando twice, Detroit twice, as well as Atlanta, New Orleans and Dallas, and 10 of the final 16 are on the road, where the Heat are 12-19. You can use your ďanything is possibleĒ argument all you want, but if youíre going to be realistic, 50 wins looks like a pretty steep order at this point. At this point, finishing with their projected 45 wins wouldnít be a bad accomplishment. 50 wins though, it looks bleak.

Furthermore, using the arguments of, ďKobe and LeBron have better supporting casts.Ē does not fly. Otherwise Magic Johnson and Larry Bird would have exactly 0 MVPís. They played on amazing teams, and lead those teams in spectacular fashion. Itís pretty much a non issue. Unless someone were literally playing with NBDL players and still won 50+ games would it really be an issue, but that isnít happening and never will happen. Playing with other good players has never hurt anybodyís chances at the MVP, and it will not hamper it this year.

Furthermore, I know some Wade fans will make the argument that Wade is statistically better. Which in some cases is true. But overall, his stats are not far and away better than LeBron and Kobeís.

These stats from March 13th, and not much has really changed since then (Today is March 15th). Kobe and LeBron have played 1 game, Wade has played 2.

LeBron PPG: 28.3
Kobe PPG: 28.0
Wade PPG: 29.7

LeBron RPG: 7.5
Kobe RPG: 5.4
Wade RPG: 5.1

LeBron APG: 7.2
Kobe APG: 4.9
Wade APG: 7.7

LeBron TOPG: 3.1
Kobe TOPG: 2.6
Wade TOPG: 3.5

LeBron BPG: 1.2
Kobe BPG: .5
Wade BPG: 1.4

LeBron SPG: 1.7
Kobe SPG: 1.3
Wade SPG: 2.3

LeBron FG%: 48.6
Kobe FG%: 47.4
Wade FG%: 49.5

LeBron MPG: 37.7
Kobe MPG: 36.5
Wade MPG: 38.5

LeBron 3pt%: 33.3
Kobe 3pt %: 34
Wade 3 pt %: 31.4

LeBron FT%: 77.1%
Kobe FT%: 86.8%
Wade FT%: 76.6%

LeBron PER: 31.3
Kobe PER: 25.3
Wade PER: 30.5

LeBron Offensive Rating: 120.7
Kobe Offensive Rating: 116.5
Wade Offensive Rating: 115

LeBron Defensive Rating: 98.6
Kobe Deffensive Rating: 107
Wade Defensive Rating: 105

LeBron Offensive Win Shares: 10.2
Kobe Offensive Win Shares: 7.9
Wade Offensive Win shares: 8.4

LeBron Defensive Win Shares: 5.1
Kobe Defensive Win Shares: 2.9
Wade Defensive Win shares: 3.4

LeBron Total Win Shares: 15.3
Kobe Total Win Shares: 10.8
Wade Total Win shares: 11.9

LeBron Usage %: 34.0
Kobe Usage %: 33.0
Wade Usage %: 35.6

LeBron Effective FG%: .525
Kobe Effective FG%: .505
Wade Effective FG%: .518

LeBron True Shooting%: .586
Kobe True Shooting %: .567
Wade True Shooting %: .575

On/Off court statistics

LeBron Offense: Points per 100 possessions: +16.8
Kobe Offense: Points per 100 possessions: +12.2
Wade Offense: Points per 100 possessions: +14.6

LeBron Defense: Points per 100 possessions: -8.3
Kobe Defense: Points per 100 possessions: +0.4
Wade Defense: Points per 100 possessions: -4.4

LeBron Net Points per 100 possessions: +25.2
Kobe Net Points per 100 possessions: +11.8
Wade Net Points per 100 possessions: +19

Clutch stats:
Production per 48 minutes in crunch time (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points)

LeBron points per 48 min in crunch time: 53.3
Kobe points per 48 min in crunch time: 59.3
Wade points per 48 min in crunch time: 52.7

LeBron TO per 48 min in crunch time: 6.3
Kobe TO per 48 min in crunch time: 2.8
Wade TO per 48 min in crunch time: 4.3

LeBron assists per 48 min in crunch time: 12.5
Kobe assists per 48 min in crunch time: 6.1
Wade assists per 48 min in crunch time: 10.3

LeBron rebounds per 48 min in crunch time: 15.7
Kobe rebounds per 48 min in crunch time: 8.5
Wade rebounds per 48 min in crunch time: 4.7

LeBron FT% per 48 min in crunch time: 86%
Kobe FT% per 48 min in crunch time: 90%
Wade FT% per 48 min in crunch time: 72%

LeBron 3pt % per 48 min in crunch time: .462
Kobe 3pt % per 48 min in crunch time: .435
Wade 3pt % per 48 min in crunch time: .320

LeBron fg% per 48 min in crunch time: .522
Kobe fg% per 48 min in crunch time: .485
Wade fg% per 48 min in crunch time: .510

LeBron blocks per 48 min in crunch time: 0.6
Kobe blocks per 48 min in crunch time: 0.0
Wade blocks per 48 min in crunch time: 5.7

LeBron steals per 48 min in crunch time: 2.5
Kobe steals per 48 min in crunch time: 1.2
Wade steals per 48 min in crunch time: 3.7

Now, if you donít know what these stats all mean, I encourage you to go to http://www.basketball-refernce.com and http://www.82games.com and take a look at their stats, at the definitions of what some of those stats mean if youíre not aware.

But what the stats tell us, is that if there is any edge in being statistically better, if probably gives the Edge to LeBron. Heís plays the largest role for his team both offensively and defensively, and he does it the most efficiently and furthermore, heís been incredibly good in crunch time.

So really, when you actually take time to consider what the MVP is, and it is not an award for the most outstanding talent, it becomes pretty clear, that barring an absolute miracle, Wade will not be MVP.

Iím not hating on Dwyane. Heís playing on the highest level there is. Wade, LeBron and Kobe are absolutely amazing players, and watching them is a joy. But when it comes down to who the MVP is, itís a two horse sprint to the finish between LeBron and Kobe.


umm........err.....ugh......cough.......um.....eru gh....

WADE FOR MVP!

Brooke
03-16-2009, 11:13 AM
Great Post Keg!

anyone that says Kobe isnt in the running is being completely ridiculous. Like it or not winning plays a great part in winning the MVP(if it didnt Kobe would have more than 1 MVP) and Kobe and LeBron have their team at 53-13(with Kobe/Lakers getting the edge because the Lakers have the tiebreaker)

LeBron is the frontrunner to win but that doesnt mean he has it in the bag by any means

what54!?
03-16-2009, 01:47 PM
I’m going to make my peace with this. I’m tired of arguing with Wade fans about why Wade won’t be the MVP, or about why Kobe deserved it last year, and all that nonsense.

Wade is a phenomenal player. Going into this summer, I think a lot of people were looking to see what Wade was going to do, because quite frankly, we hadn’t really seen the Wade that can dominate in 2 years. He showed up in Beijing. He showed up to play this season. When Kobe and LeBron had somewhat taken over the stage, and people had forgotten about Wade, he showed it’s not just a Kobe and LeBron duel, but it is in fact a trio.

With that said.

Wade is not the most qualified MVP candidate.

Is he the most outstanding player this year? Absolutely.

Is he just as good as Kobe and LeBron? Absolutely.

But, when it comes to the MVP, there are certain criteria that he falls short of. Namely, winning; like it or not, agree with it or not, it is simply part of the award, has been since it's inception.

Now, I know Heat fans don't want to hear that, they constatly say it's stupid to do so. But the MVP is about winning. The MVP hasn't simply been awarded to the best talent. If it were, then it very well probably would go to Wade this year, but winning is part of the MVP. You need to seperate what you think the MVP should be, and what the reality of it is, because they are clearly two different things.

In the 53 year history of the MVP, only 5 (Petit ’56, McAdoo ’75, Kareem ’75, M. Malone ’79 and’82) of the MVP’s didn’t come from a team that won either
50+ wins in a 82 game season.
49+ wins in a 80 game season.
48+ wins in a 79 game season.
46+ wins in a 75 game season.
44+ wins in a 72 game season.
31+ wins in a 50 game season. (1998-1999 strike shortened season)

(50 wins in an 82 game season = a winning percentage of .609)

Likewise, in those 53 years, here’s a break down of where the MVP’s team finished in the NBA ranks record wise.

1st or 2nd: 45
3rd or 4th:3
5th or worse: 5

Now, when you take all that in, you see just how important winning actually is. The MVP has repeatedly awarded players for winning, and doing so in such a fashion that is noteworthy for their individual performance.

Now, the Heat could win 50 games, if they go 16-0 over their last 16 games, they’d end up with 52 wins. So if they go 14-2 over their last 16, they would indeed finish with 50 wins. Of course, the Heat also haven’t won more than 4 games in a row at any point this season. They also play Boston twice, Orlando twice, Detroit twice, as well as Atlanta, New Orleans and Dallas, and 10 of the final 16 are on the road, where the Heat are 12-19. You can use your “anything is possible” argument all you want, but if you’re going to be realistic, 50 wins looks like a pretty steep order at this point. At this point, finishing with their projected 45 wins wouldn’t be a bad accomplishment. 50 wins though, it looks bleak.

Furthermore, using the arguments of, “Kobe and LeBron have better supporting casts.” does not fly. Otherwise Magic Johnson and Larry Bird would have exactly 0 MVP’s. They played on amazing teams, and lead those teams in spectacular fashion. It’s pretty much a non issue. Unless someone were literally playing with NBDL players and still won 50+ games would it really be an issue, but that isn’t happening and never will happen. Playing with other good players has never hurt anybody’s chances at the MVP, and it will not hamper it this year.

Furthermore, I know some Wade fans will make the argument that Wade is statistically better. Which in some cases is true. But overall, his stats are not far and away better than LeBron and Kobe’s.

These stats from March 13th, and not much has really changed since then (Today is March 15th). Kobe and LeBron have played 1 game, Wade has played 2.

LeBron PPG: 28.3
Kobe PPG: 28.0
Wade PPG: 29.7

LeBron RPG: 7.5
Kobe RPG: 5.4
Wade RPG: 5.1

LeBron APG: 7.2
Kobe APG: 4.9
Wade APG: 7.7

LeBron TOPG: 3.1
Kobe TOPG: 2.6
Wade TOPG: 3.5

LeBron BPG: 1.2
Kobe BPG: .5
Wade BPG: 1.4

LeBron SPG: 1.7
Kobe SPG: 1.3
Wade SPG: 2.3

LeBron FG%: 48.6
Kobe FG%: 47.4
Wade FG%: 49.5

LeBron MPG: 37.7
Kobe MPG: 36.5
Wade MPG: 38.5

LeBron 3pt%: 33.3
Kobe 3pt %: 34
Wade 3 pt %: 31.4

LeBron FT%: 77.1%
Kobe FT%: 86.8%
Wade FT%: 76.6%

LeBron PER: 31.3
Kobe PER: 25.3
Wade PER: 30.5

LeBron Offensive Rating: 120.7
Kobe Offensive Rating: 116.5
Wade Offensive Rating: 115

LeBron Defensive Rating: 98.6
Kobe Deffensive Rating: 107
Wade Defensive Rating: 105

LeBron Offensive Win Shares: 10.2
Kobe Offensive Win Shares: 7.9
Wade Offensive Win shares: 8.4

LeBron Defensive Win Shares: 5.1
Kobe Defensive Win Shares: 2.9
Wade Defensive Win shares: 3.4

LeBron Total Win Shares: 15.3
Kobe Total Win Shares: 10.8
Wade Total Win shares: 11.9

LeBron Usage %: 34.0
Kobe Usage %: 33.0
Wade Usage %: 35.6

LeBron Effective FG%: .525
Kobe Effective FG%: .505
Wade Effective FG%: .518

LeBron True Shooting%: .586
Kobe True Shooting %: .567
Wade True Shooting %: .575

On/Off court statistics

LeBron Offense: Points per 100 possessions: +16.8
Kobe Offense: Points per 100 possessions: +12.2
Wade Offense: Points per 100 possessions: +14.6

LeBron Defense: Points per 100 possessions: -8.3
Kobe Defense: Points per 100 possessions: +0.4
Wade Defense: Points per 100 possessions: -4.4

LeBron Net Points per 100 possessions: +25.2
Kobe Net Points per 100 possessions: +11.8
Wade Net Points per 100 possessions: +19

Clutch stats:
Production per 48 minutes in crunch time (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points)

LeBron points per 48 min in crunch time: 53.3
Kobe points per 48 min in crunch time: 59.3
Wade points per 48 min in crunch time: 52.7

LeBron TO per 48 min in crunch time: 6.3
Kobe TO per 48 min in crunch time: 2.8
Wade TO per 48 min in crunch time: 4.3

LeBron assists per 48 min in crunch time: 12.5
Kobe assists per 48 min in crunch time: 6.1
Wade assists per 48 min in crunch time: 10.3

LeBron rebounds per 48 min in crunch time: 15.7
Kobe rebounds per 48 min in crunch time: 8.5
Wade rebounds per 48 min in crunch time: 4.7

LeBron FT% per 48 min in crunch time: 86%
Kobe FT% per 48 min in crunch time: 90%
Wade FT% per 48 min in crunch time: 72%

LeBron 3pt % per 48 min in crunch time: .462
Kobe 3pt % per 48 min in crunch time: .435
Wade 3pt % per 48 min in crunch time: .320

LeBron fg% per 48 min in crunch time: .522
Kobe fg% per 48 min in crunch time: .485
Wade fg% per 48 min in crunch time: .510

LeBron blocks per 48 min in crunch time: 0.6
Kobe blocks per 48 min in crunch time: 0.0
Wade blocks per 48 min in crunch time: 5.7

LeBron steals per 48 min in crunch time: 2.5
Kobe steals per 48 min in crunch time: 1.2
Wade steals per 48 min in crunch time: 3.7

Now, if you don’t know what these stats all mean, I encourage you to go to http://www.basketball-refernce.com and http://www.82games.com and take a look at their stats, at the definitions of what some of those stats mean if you’re not aware.

But what the stats tell us, is that if there is any edge in being statistically better, if probably gives the Edge to LeBron. He’s plays the largest role for his team both offensively and defensively, and he does it the most efficiently and furthermore, he’s been incredibly good in crunch time.

So really, when you actually take time to consider what the MVP is, and it is not an award for the most outstanding talent, it becomes pretty clear, that barring an absolute miracle, Wade will not be MVP.

I’m not hating on Dwyane. He’s playing on the highest level there is. Wade, LeBron and Kobe are absolutely amazing players, and watching them is a joy. But when it comes down to who the MVP is, it’s a two horse sprint to the finish between LeBron and Kobe.
I can live with that. I know wade won't get MVP because the Heat don't have enough W's but he better be on the 1st All-NBA team. I'm more focused on the post-season now anyways.

Faneik
03-16-2009, 02:54 PM
I can live with that. I know wade won't get MVP because the Heat don't have enough W's but he better be on the 1st All-NBA team. I'm more focused on the post-season now anyways.

I agree.

PG - CP3
SG - Wade
SF - Lebron
PF - Duncan
C - Howard

NYMetros
03-16-2009, 03:09 PM
lol not kobe? your funny
Its going to be either kobe or Wade
I want kobe but if that doesnt happen give it to Wade
Lebron is good but not good enough to be given MVP yet

:eyebrow:

SwaggaIke
03-16-2009, 03:25 PM
Its obvious that this years MVP will go to LeBron. Kobe definitely has a shot at it, but its Bron's to lose. Hopefully we can come back w/ a more mature supporting cast next year and give Wade a legitimate shot at it. With that being said, Dwyane has done everything in his power to get his team as many wins as possible and I applaud him for that.

MickeyMgl
03-16-2009, 06:49 PM
wade...
and thats all that matters...
wade
howard
lbj
chris paul
gasol... yea no kobe

No worries. You might as well follow the agenda all the way through.

MickeyMgl
03-16-2009, 07:08 PM
If Wade isn't top 3 people are on crack, what he is doing is pretty nice.

If Wade isn't in the top three, people are being consistent. Bryant wasn't even in the top five of many ballots in '06, when he was by far the dominant player in the league.

lakerboy
03-16-2009, 09:05 PM
What about First All-NBA Team?

Don't ask me. My vote is on Kobe.

RaysFan
03-16-2009, 09:45 PM
Great Post Keg!

anyone that says Kobe isnt in the running is being completely ridiculous. Like it or not winning plays a great part in winning the MVP(if it didnt Kobe would have more than 1 MVP) and Kobe and LeBron have their team at 53-13(with Kobe/Lakers getting the edge because the Lakers have the tiebreaker)

LeBron is the frontrunner to win but that doesnt mean he has it in the bag by any means

LeBron does have a pretty clear lead right now with the lead seeming to widen instead of closing in the last few weeks. I think it is getting pretty clear that LeBron is going to be the NBA MVP.

Vinny642
03-16-2009, 10:59 PM
If Wade isn't in the top three, people are being consistent. Bryant wasn't even in the top five of many ballots in '06, when he was by far the dominant player in the league.

OMG Stop bringing up the past this is about NOW! IDC about Kobe... but if you don't have Wade in your top 3 right now I don't know about you... because what he has did for the Heat is amazing.

mrs rose
03-17-2009, 02:07 AM
No worries. You might as well follow the agenda all the way through.

i dont know what u mean
but i dont like kobe.. that is not a secret.. i think he is a cocky jerk, and if u didnt notice the lakers had issues before gasol got there. so i would call mvp before kobe.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-17-2009, 02:11 AM
i dont know what u mean
but i dont like kobe.. that is not a secret.. i think he is a cocky jerk, and if u didnt notice the lakers had issues before gasol got there. so i would call mvp before kobe.

No they didnt. They were first in the west without Gasol. With a worse team than Wade is playing with right now. They were good without Gasol. They became very good with him.

fresh prince
03-17-2009, 02:31 AM
i dont know what u mean
but i dont like kobe.. that is not a secret.. i think he is a cocky jerk, and if u didnt notice the lakers had issues before gasol got there. so i would call mvp before kobe.

:confused: It baffles me when people say things like this about people they don't even know. Its one of the strangest things in the world to me really..

I get it for Actors, Musicians, and other celebrities because what they do is more personal. Maybe they played a role that reminds you of someone you hate or maybe their music is bad luck for you or reminds you of a bad time in your life. I get that....

But when talking about sports it should always be about the game IMO.

I genuinely don't see how someone can call themselves a hoops fan and not respect guys like Kobe, Lebron, D Wade all 3 are amazing talents and all 3 act like A HOLES when they are on the court. They are all cocky as hell, and that's what makes them so good.

As sports fans we need to be able to separate the games from reality. You don't really know Kobe just think about it..

shep33
03-17-2009, 02:33 AM
I see Lebron taking it this year. The only problem I have against Lebron however, is his poor play against the best teams in the league. Played two really bad games against the Lakers, and he seems to collapse against teams like Boston and the upper echelon of the league. But still his numbers are ridiculous. The problem I have with Wade winning it, is that Kobe put up an even more ridiculous season a couple years back when he averaged over 35 a game, and he still got beat out by nash. Kobe I think is 3rd. So to be consistent you can't give it to him (even though he'd be my vote), otherwise the MVP which is kinda ridiculous already, would be even more confusing.

mrs rose
03-17-2009, 02:42 AM
No they didnt. They were first in the west without Gasol. With a worse team than Wade is playing with right now. They were good without Gasol. They became very good with him.

HMM
so kobe had two rookies in the starting lineup? last time i checked bealsey and chalmers were rookies, not to mention the trades... its funny no one has mentioned that wade hasnt played with a core team more than a year. last year posey was traded,kapono, shaq, walker, gp retired, zo got hurt, wade (himself) was hurt. the only player wade has played with is haslem. love haslem but he is no star, gasol has been a all star.. fisher came back.. you guys got odom in the trade for shaq.. we had marion.. the no jump shot... missing dunks marion. not the all star from the suns... wade is playing point, and shooting guard.. we have no center. and we took smush from you guys.. he was awful... now wade is making moon.. look better than shawn marion.. jo is looking like his old self... james jones is injured... we just got luther head so he is still learning the system... chris quinn is garbo... cook had to go to the d league and any heat fan can tell you.... he is not a player who is game to game good. so i dont understand how u can compare wade's team... to kobe's team

mrs rose
03-17-2009, 02:54 AM
:confused: It baffles me when people say things like this about people they don't even know. Its one of the strangest things in the world to me really..

I get it for Actors, Musicians, and other celebrities because what they do is more personal. Maybe they played a role that reminds you of someone you hate or maybe their music is bad luck for you or reminds you of a bad time in your life. I get that....

But when talking about sports it should always be about the game IMO.

I genuinely don't see how someone can call themselves a hoops fan and not respect guys like Kobe, Lebron, D Wade all 3 are amazing talents and all 3 act like A HOLES when they are on the court. They are all cocky as hell, and that's what makes them so good.

As sports fans we need to be able to separate the games from reality. You don't really know Kobe just think about it..

i dont like kobe plain and simple.. he has no integrity... no loyality.. ie snitching on shaq, and saying he wanted to be traded like the whole off season, and then plays and then when things dont go his way he wants to be traded.. until gasol comes along... and now he is a laker 4 life.. whatever.. i like lbj, and we all know i love dwyane tyrone wade jr

fresh prince
03-17-2009, 03:06 AM
i dont like kobe plain and simple.. he has no integrity... no loyality.. ie snitching on shaq, and saying he wanted to be traded like the whole off season, and then plays and then when things dont go his way he wants to be traded.. until gasol comes along... and now he is a laker 4 life.. whatever.. i like lbj, and we all know i love dwyane tyrone wade jr


Oh youre a female? That makes it a little different but still.

I try not to pass judgment on people..especially ones I don't know.. We have all done things that are wrong.

Your boy D WADE cheated on his wife, and SO did SHAQ.

D wade also ALLEGEDLY gave his chick an STD. Lebron apparently is a rude bastard who doesn't tip even after racking up thousand dollar tabs.

Its all relative and further augments the need to judge these cats on what they do ON THE COURT

Master Mind
03-17-2009, 04:38 AM
HMM
so kobe had two rookies in the starting lineup? last time i checked bealsey and chalmers were rookies, not to mention the trades... its funny no one has mentioned that wade hasnt played with a core team more than a year. last year posey was traded,kapono, shaq, walker, gp retired, zo got hurt, wade (himself) was hurt. the only player wade has played with is haslem. love haslem but he is no star, gasol has been a all star.. fisher came back.. you guys got odom in the trade for shaq.. we had marion.. the no jump shot... missing dunks marion. not the all star from the suns... wade is playing point, and shooting guard.. we have no center. and we took smush from you guys.. he was awful... now wade is making moon.. look better than shawn marion.. jo is looking like his old self... james jones is injured... we just got luther head so he is still learning the system... chris quinn is garbo... cook had to go to the d league and any heat fan can tell you.... he is not a player who is game to game good. so i dont understand how u can compare wade's team... to kobe's team


Way to sum it up in a nutshell...:clap:

Bill Wilson
03-17-2009, 06:06 AM
kobe bryant is the best of the very best, doubtless. wade is the close second. don't ask about lebron, he should sit around 5th or 6th.

Master Mind
03-17-2009, 06:40 AM
kobe bryant is the best of the very best, doubtless. wade is the close second. don't ask about lebron, he should sit around 5th or 6th.

The Lefans (Lebron fans) are gonna eat you for that....:eyebrow:

santana88
03-17-2009, 06:56 AM
well hear it is.... if you are going to vote for Wade everyone should have voted for Kobe everysince Shaq left.... he had better numbers as a whole and just like Wade took his team to the playoffs but NO he did not get the votes for MVP and Nash did....

Lebron comes in at a close number 2.... he has great stats and less talent on his team but as a MVP goes he falls shot in one area.... look at his stats against high level teams.. his stats are down and the Losses are more then the wins... but the media will not look at this cause they all want Lebron to win...

so now look at Kobe....his wins are huge against all the best level teams... spurs, Cavs, Celtics, Hornets, Nuggets, Pistons etc.....
he lost his starting center and took over from there.... so if you look at it at a logical place ther eis only one choice for MVP

KOBE

JayW_1023
03-17-2009, 08:17 AM
LMAO, some of these comments in this thread get way too biased and personal. It's almost funny people can say these things and consider it objectivity.

Keep the debate strictly about basketball, and at least there will be some form of logic in each opinion, wether you agree or not.

Wade, Kobe and LeBron all have a really good case. But for me W's are more important than numbers. Wade is carrying his team, and having the best individual season.

Kobe is the best player on probably the best team in the league. He is leading by example and keeping a very deep talented nuclues atop the West by a landslide.

But for LeBron you could make an equal case as to having a great team, but also his individual brilliance...he is keeping his team in the elite, and also carrying a very heavy load doing so.

So in conclusion, for me, it's still LeBrons to lose. He has the right intangibles.

In short:

Wade: Great individual season
Kobe: Leader and best player of best team in conference
LeBron: Great individual season AND best player of best team in conference.

Agar81
03-17-2009, 08:57 AM
wade has the best stats, and some of them are by more then 2. If you see the string of games that he has put up over the past couple of weeks, you will be amazed. Go look at the box scores, all of the 40 point games and 50's and 30s. He also rebounds with an average of 8, and he consistently gets over 10 assists per game. He is only starting to get the credit that he has deserved all year, and he has put up games like this through out the season. He is winning also, and his team would be nothing without him. He is truely the most valuable to his team. The Lakers could win without him. And yes, the Cavs could win, they have enought talent. Kobe is not deserving of the MVP, he rarely assists or boards. He is a one-sided player, and i think it comes down to Lebron and Wade. Wade wins though, and if you dont think he deserve it, there is truely something wrong with you.

The Answer3
03-17-2009, 08:59 AM
Wade: Great individual season
.

I don't disagree with your post except for that part. I do think LeBron's the clear cut winner followed by Kobe. Wade is having a great individual and team season considering what Miami did last year. Sure, Miami's record isn't all that great compared to LA and Cavs but they are doing much better than everyone saw them doing. Miami won 15 games last year, their squad is quite inexperienced. You have rookies in Mario and Beasley, not a lot of offensive options (see Diawara, Quinn, Haslem etc) and a rookie coach whose a bit stagnant on rotations. Before the JO trade, we didn't have a center. This year, Miami can get 4th seed and most of the credit should go to Wade since he's been a great leader, making his team better and done whats best for the team. I don't see how he didn't have a great individual and team season. I don't think just the team's record should be the criteria for rating a player's season.

Agar81
03-17-2009, 08:59 AM
this is coming from a non-biased stand point also. Im a Celtics fans, and all the people for Kobe so far have been Lakers.

Agar81
03-17-2009, 09:02 AM
*correction, wades rebounds are 5 per game, but more then the others, read my other comment

lakers4sho
03-17-2009, 10:06 AM
i dont know what u mean
but i dont like kobe.. that is not a secret.. i think he is a cocky jerk, and if u didnt notice the lakers had issues before gasol got there. so i would call mvp before kobe.

You keep bringing up off-the-court "issues" as excuses for why Kobe shouldn't win...

ST.maarten'stop
03-17-2009, 11:11 AM
you guys are ridiculus. put Wade on any of the other 2 teams and he'll probably have the same or better record then he has with the heat. you can't just say wins means the most. its amazing what wade is doing with the team he as around him.

#1. Lakers has Kobe and Gasol

#2. Cavs has Lebron and Mo williams

#3. Who does the Heat have Wade Only!! with a bunch of inconsistent bysides.

Wade clearly deserves the MVP regardless of record because he doing it by himself. there's no one to relieve the pressure off of him. he doesnt have the opportunity to say take a little rest like lebron and Kobe, because if Wade does the heats ship will sink faster then the titanic. Kobe and Lebron are great players yes and all are playing out of this world. but the advantage Lebron and Kobe have is that they both have All stars as back ups. Wade does it with a inconsistent beasley who shows up every 3 days. To hell with the stats and to hell with all the stat Geeks. winning records arent everything. you need to look at the whole situation realistically. Besides that he alone carried the heats to the playoffs. The way wade is playing now especially down the stretch he's on a whole nother level. but he has to keep it up for him to win the MVP because Lebrons right on his tail. Kobe's gonna finish 3rd.

Kenny
03-17-2009, 11:14 AM
well hear it is.... if you are going to vote for Wade everyone should have voted for Kobe everysince Shaq left.... he had better numbers as a whole and just like Wade took his team to the playoffs but NO he did not get the votes for MVP and Nash did....

Lebron comes in at a close number 2.... he has great stats and less talent on his team but as a MVP goes he falls shot in one area.... look at his stats against high level teams.. his stats are down and the Losses are more then the wins... but the media will not look at this cause they all want Lebron to win...

so now look at Kobe....his wins are huge against all the best level teams... spurs, Cavs, Celtics, Hornets, Nuggets, Pistons etc.....
he lost his starting center and took over from there.... so if you look at it at a logical place ther eis only one choice for MVP

KOBE

Lets see 60 percvent of the cavs starting lineup has missed significant time, and they still are tied for the best record..

Laker and heat fans need to open there eyes.

Brooke
03-17-2009, 11:23 AM
. The Lakers could win without him. And yes, the Cavs could win, they have enought talent. Kobe is not deserving of the MVP, he rarely assists or boards. He is a one-sided player, and i think it comes down to Lebron and Wade. Wade wins though, and if you dont think he deserve it, there is truely something wrong with you.

Yeah that is why his assist # are up. Without Kobe the Lakers wouldnt be #1 in the West by 9 games, they would be a 8th seed at best. Once again people think because Kobe has some good players they would be fine w/out him when it has been proven when he is out of the game the team blows it 85% of the time and he has to bail them out. I watch every Laker game and have seen that happen a lot this year

and there is something wrong with anyone who doesnt think Kobe deserves to be in the discussion. Once again people underestimate what he means to this team




i dont like kobe plain and simple.. he has no integrity... no loyality.. ie snitching on shaq, and saying he wanted to be traded like the whole off season, and then plays and then when things dont go his way he wants to be traded.. until gasol comes along... and now he is a laker 4 life.. whatever.. i like lbj, and we all know i love dwyane tyrone wade jr

not like you are bias or anything :rolleyes:

ST.maarten'stop
03-17-2009, 11:30 AM
well hear it is.... if you are going to vote for Wade everyone should have voted for Kobe everysince Shaq left.... he had better numbers as a whole and just like Wade took his team to the playoffs but NO he did not get the votes for MVP and Nash did....

Lebron comes in at a close number 2.... he has great stats and less talent on his team but as a MVP goes he falls shot in one area.... look at his stats against high level teams.. his stats are down and the Losses are more then the wins... but the media will not look at this cause they all want Lebron to win...

so now look at Kobe....his wins are huge against all the best level teams... spurs, Cavs, Celtics, Hornets, Nuggets, Pistons etc.....
he lost his starting center and took over from there.... so if you look at it at a logical place ther eis only one choice for MVP

KOBE

He didn't get the Mvp because he wasnt the most valuable player that year!! nash deserved that 1st MVP. However Kobe did have good number but Nash did more to turn around the suns. with out nash the suns is oneof the worse teams in the NBA. the Lakers can somewhat stay afloat but not for long.

superkegger
03-17-2009, 04:18 PM
wade has the best stats, and some of them are by more then 2. If you see the string of games that he has put up over the past couple of weeks, you will be amazed. Go look at the box scores, all of the 40 point games and 50's and 30s. He also rebounds with an average of 8, and he consistently gets over 10 assists per game. He is only starting to get the credit that he has deserved all year, and he has put up games like this through out the season. He is winning also, and his team would be nothing without him. He is truely the most valuable to his team. The Lakers could win without him. And yes, the Cavs could win, they have enought talent. Kobe is not deserving of the MVP, he rarely assists or boards. He is a one-sided player, and i think it comes down to Lebron and Wade. Wade wins though, and if you dont think he deserve it, there is truely something wrong with you.


you guys are ridiculus. put Wade on any of the other 2 teams and he'll probably have the same or better record then he has with the heat. you can't just say wins means the most. its amazing what wade is doing with the team he as around him.

#1. Lakers has Kobe and Gasol

#2. Cavs has Lebron and Mo williams

#3. Who does the Heat have Wade Only!! with a bunch of inconsistent bysides.

Wade clearly deserves the MVP regardless of record because he doing it by himself. there's no one to relieve the pressure off of him. he doesnt have the opportunity to say take a little rest like lebron and Kobe, because if Wade does the heats ship will sink faster then the titanic. Kobe and Lebron are great players yes and all are playing out of this world. but the advantage Lebron and Kobe have is that they both have All stars as back ups. Wade does it with a inconsistent beasley who shows up every 3 days. To hell with the stats and to hell with all the stat Geeks. winning records arent everything. you need to look at the whole situation realistically. Besides that he alone carried the heats to the playoffs. The way wade is playing now especially down the stretch he's on a whole nother level. but he has to keep it up for him to win the MVP because Lebrons right on his tail. Kobe's gonna finish 3rd.


I'd like to direct you to my earlier post. (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8754237&postcount=9) Here I explain why winning matters, and give my viewpoint on the whole thing.


He didn't get the Mvp because he wasnt the most valuable player that year!! nash deserved that 1st MVP. However Kobe did have good number but Nash did more to turn around the suns. with out nash the suns is oneof the worse teams in the NBA. the Lakers can somewhat stay afloat but not for long.

Nash's first MVP was deserved, his second, not as much. It was an odd year, as the suns were a good team, but they weren't even as good as they were the previous year, but the couple teams ahead of the suns didn't exactly have a shining star put up crazy numbers while nash's actually got better.

But the suns in 05-06 only won 54 game I believe, and the Lakers won 45, with the likes of smush parker and Kwame Brown in the starting lineup. If you're seriously arguing for Wade for MVP, to have any kind of consistency you absolutely have to say Kobe should have been MVP in 05-06. Which is iffy in any case as 45 wins was pretty unexpected for that team, and the fashion in which Kobe did it was pretty spectacular. The 81 point game, I think 27 40+ games, just unreal. But he came in 4th. Yes, 4th in the MVP voting that year.

If anybody deserved it that year, it was probably Chauncey. Led his team to a better record, put up 18 and 8 with impeccable defense. It was a funny year for the MVP in 05-06 though, because no one on an elite team really put up blow away numbers except for Nash, but his team actually was worse than the previous year. Which in a way makes the case for Kobe stronger, but none the less, he didn't have the wins, and so he wasn't as qualified.

Wade this year has all the stats and stuff, but unlike 05-06 the elite teams have Kobe and LeBron also performing at an incredibly high level. So how in any rational way, if you really look at how the award has been handed out, how you could still give it to Wade is beyond me.

Wade is a crazy talened player, and a joy to watch. He's outstanding. But he's simply not the MVP this year.

Chronz
03-17-2009, 06:16 PM
wade has the best stats, and some of them are by more then 2. If you see the string of games that he has put up over the past couple of weeks, you will be amazed. Go look at the box scores, all of the 40 point games and 50's and 30s. He also rebounds with an average of 8, and he consistently gets over 10 assists per game. He is only starting to get the credit that he has deserved all year, and he has put up games like this through out the season. He is winning also, and his team would be nothing without him. He is truely the most valuable to his team. The Lakers could win without him. And yes, the Cavs could win, they have enought talent. Kobe is not deserving of the MVP, he rarely assists or boards. He is a one-sided player, and i think it comes down to Lebron and Wade. Wade wins though, and if you dont think he deserve it, there is truely something wrong with you.

Really by more than 2? Wow that must mean he has the best stats....

Kakaroach
03-17-2009, 06:49 PM
Wade because he is single-handedly carrying his team who are a bunch of losers and JO is washed up.

Chronz
03-17-2009, 07:16 PM
Wade because he is single-handedly carrying his team who are a bunch of losers and JO is washed up.
So you think its better to lead a team thats going nowhere than lead a team thats has a chance of accomplishing something?

Kakaroach
03-17-2009, 07:21 PM
So you think its better to lead a team thats going nowhere than lead a team thats has a chance of accomplishing something? What are you talking about? This team has a chance to make a run in the playoffs.

superkegger
03-17-2009, 07:23 PM
What are you talking about? This team has a chance to make a run in the playoffs.

I'm not going to get into it all again, just look at my previous post here. (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8754237&postcount=9)

Kakaroach
03-17-2009, 07:28 PM
I'm not going to get into it all again, just look at my previous post here. (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8754237&postcount=9) Talk about a stats addict. So you think the Heat have no chance in the playoffs?

superkegger
03-17-2009, 07:45 PM
Talk about a stats addict. So you think the Heat have no chance in the playoffs?

I think they're facing a big uphill battle. They're most likely not going to get homecourt advantage, and they have a tough closing stretch(10 of 16 on the road, 2 vs Boston, 2 vs. Detroit, Atlanta, Orlando, New Orleans, Dallas_. If they have a poor close to the season, Detroit or Philly could overtake that 5th spot. In which case they'd be in a huge pile of ****.

But let's assume they stay in the 5th spot, Atlanta has shown this season they can beat them, and as of late their defense has picked back up. Recently they shut down the Hornets, Jazz (while stifling paul, yes 24 and 10 by paul are still good numbers, but 6 TO's and a -2 +/- and 8-19 shooting is doing a good job on the best pg in the league, and held Dwill to 20 and 9 with 5 TO's and a -1 +/-) lost by only 1 on an arguably bad call to the Cavs, and in the last 2 weeks have only given up one 100 point game, and are on a 5 game win streak.

At this point, it's looking like a very tough road for the Heat in the playoffs.

But should they get past the Hawks, that leaves them facing the Cavs, who probably didn't have a long series against the bucks or whoever might finish 8th.

As every Heat fan likes to say, "anything is possible." but in this case, few things are probable.

Wade has had a great year, and it's important to not that he's been spectacular.

But as I noted before:

In the 53 year history of the MVP, only 5 (Petit í56, McAdoo í75, Kareem í75, M. Malone í79 andí82) of the MVPís didnít come from a team that won either
50+ wins in a 82 game season.
49+ wins in a 80 game season.
48+ wins in a 79 game season.
46+ wins in a 75 game season.
44+ wins in a 72 game season.
31+ wins in a 50 game season. (1998-1999 strike shortened season)

(50 wins in an 82 game season = a winning percentage of .609)

Likewise, in those 53 years, hereís a break down of where the MVPís team finished in the NBA ranks record wise.

1st or 2nd: 45
3rd or 4th:3
5th or worse: 5

It's just not in the cards for Wade this year.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-17-2009, 08:07 PM
HMM
so kobe had two rookies in the starting lineup? last time i checked bealsey and chalmers were rookies, not to mention the trades... its funny no one has mentioned that wade hasnt played with a core team more than a year. last year posey was traded,kapono, shaq, walker, gp retired, zo got hurt, wade (himself) was hurt. the only player wade has played with is haslem. love haslem but he is no star, gasol has been a all star.. fisher came back.. you guys got odom in the trade for shaq.. we had marion.. the no jump shot... missing dunks marion. not the all star from the suns... wade is playing point, and shooting guard.. we have no center. and we took smush from you guys.. he was awful... now wade is making moon.. look better than shawn marion.. jo is looking like his old self... james jones is injured... we just got luther head so he is still learning the system... chris quinn is garbo... cook had to go to the d league and any heat fan can tell you.... he is not a player who is game to game good. so i dont understand how u can compare wade's team... to kobe's team


The teams were not even close to having the same talent. If the Lakers would have had those two rookies in Beasley and Chalmers over Smush and Walton, they would have won 50 games. You said it yourself, Smush Parker is God AWFUL!. He could not even get playing time with you guys when the Heat desperately needed point guard help. HE WAS OUR STARTING POINT GUARD!!!! He could not even get any burn with the damn Clippers!!! But he WAS OUR STARTING POINT GUARD.!!!! Not to mention the worst big man in Lakers history named Kwame Brown. How is he doing now? He picks up towels for the Pistons. But, HE STARTED FOR US! Next was starting Brian Cook!! He could not get off the bench for the Magic. And now he cant get off the bench for the Rockets. But, HE STARTED FOR US Lamar was the only other player on the team with any talent besides Kobe. But everyone knows he will only show up for 3 games then disappear for 6. At that ratio, he probably had 40 good games that year. Not to mention the worst bench in NBA history with its main rotation of Chris Mihm, Luke Walton, Devean George, Sasha Vujacic (Not the decent Sasha, the one who shot 34% from the field and 33% from 3)and Laron Profit getting all the playing time.

That might of been okay if any of those guys were defensive players. But they were not. They could not even play defense. At least the Heat have players who play D. This is not even debatable. D Wades supporting cast looks like all stars next to Kobe's of 05/06.

madiaz3
03-17-2009, 08:16 PM
Lets see 60 percvent of the cavs starting lineup has missed significant time, and they still are tied for the best record..

Laker and heat fans need to open there eyes.

Do you want to argue the importance of the Lakers losing their starting center for time longer than the Cavs have had injuries combined?

Suns Man
03-17-2009, 08:16 PM
I think this year's MVP will be either LeBron or Wade. Both put up near triple doubles almost nightly including steals and blocked shots. Kobe is in the running but I think he'll finish third place at best. If you take LeBron, Wade, and Kobe out of the line up, the Lakers would still have the winning record among the three teams. However, in the play offs any of these teams could beat each other.
That's the way I see it at this time.

Russ

fresh prince
03-17-2009, 08:18 PM
HE WAS OUR STARTING POINT GUARD!!!! He could not even get any burn with the damn Clippers!!! But he WAS OUR STARTING POINT GUARD.!!!! Not to mention the worst big man in Lakers history named Kwame Brown. How is he doing now? He picks up towels for the Pistons. But, HE STARTED FOR US! Next was starting Brian Cook!! He could not get off the bench for the Magic.

And now he cant get off the bench for the Rockets. But, HE STARTED FOR US Lamar was the only other player on the team with any talent besides Kobe. But everyone knows he will only show up for 3 games then disappear for 6. At that ratio, he probably had 40 good games that year. Not to mention the worst bench in NBA history with its main rotation of Chris Mihm, Luke Walton, Devean George, Sasha Vujacic (Not the decent Sasha, the one who shot 34% from the field and 33% from 3)and Laron Profit getting all the playing time.
D Wades supporting cast looks like all stars next to Kobe's of 05/06.

Bingo...

And The same dudes are voting for MVP .

Its not like there is a fresh new crop of MVP voters with fresh Ideas. These guys have already set the prerequisite for MVP. Which is top player on a team with one of the best records in the NBA.

Wade just doesn't meet the prerequisite that the voters have setup to get in. You cant take pre- calculus without mixing in Geometry and Advanced Algebra..The NBA MVP is ran that way and is the main reason why D Wade wont win the award.

If this were the MLB or the NFL Wade would have it wrapped up already.

Also one thing that should stop is comparing Kobe 05 -06 to Wade this year. Kobe led quite possibly the worst team (minus himself) ever to 47 wins in the Western Conference and averaged 35.4 ppg!

The Lakers starting 5 was:

PG Smush Parker
SG Kobe Bryant
SF Luke Walton
PF Lamar Odom
C Kwame Brown

If you take out kobe Bryant this group was arguably one of the worst TEAMS ever assembled. The 2- 10 best players were:

2. Lamar Odom
3. Chris Mihm
4. Luke Walton
5. Smush Parker
6. Kwame Brown
7. Laron Profit
8. Brian Cook
9. Devean George
10. Slava Medvendenko

Easily a lottery team that would struggle to win 12 -15 games

Wade Has a much better cast than that piss poor group and they are on pace for right around the same amount of victories in a conference that has 3 really good teams (CLE,BOS,ORL) 3 average ones (ATL,PHI,DET) and the rest of the teams are Below Average to awful.

I'm Not Hating on Wade just keeping it real. I for one think that it would be cool if he does win it. As it would show that the moronic NBA MVP voters have learned from their past mistakes. I just don't think it will happen.

Its a simple equation

MVP

Top Player on Top Team = Kobe or Lebron
__________________

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-17-2009, 08:22 PM
you guys are ridiculus. put Wade on any of the other 2 teams and he'll probably have the same or better record then he has with the heat. you can't just say wins means the most. its amazing what wade is doing with the team he as around him.

#1. Lakers has Kobe and Gasol

#2. Cavs has Lebron and Mo williams

#3. Who does the Heat have Wade Only!! with a bunch of inconsistent bysides.

Wade clearly deserves the MVP regardless of record because he doing it by himself. there's no one to relieve the pressure off of him. he doesnt have the opportunity to say take a little rest like lebron and Kobe, because if Wade does the heats ship will sink faster then the titanic. Kobe and Lebron are great players yes and all are playing out of this world. but the advantage Lebron and Kobe have is that they both have All stars as back ups. Wade does it with a inconsistent beasley who shows up every 3 days. To hell with the stats and to hell with all the stat Geeks. winning records arent everything. you need to look at the whole situation realistically. Besides that he alone carried the heats to the playoffs. The way wade is playing now especially down the stretch he's on a whole nother level. but he has to keep it up for him to win the MVP because Lebrons right on his tail. Kobe's gonna finish 3rd.

You are out of you mind. The Lakers bench is good by their reputation from last year.

Farmar= No defense shooting 41% 7.1 pts 1.9 reb. 2.4 ast. 58% ft
Sasha= Worst defense shooting 37% 33% 3pointer 5.6 pts 1.8 reb 1.5 assist 91% ft
Walton= Worst defender ever shooting 41% 4.8 points 2.6 reb 2.4 assist 68% ft
Powell=Pretty good 48%fg 4.4 points 2.9 reb .04 assist 71%free throws.

Can you please point out to me the all stars?

Kakaroach
03-17-2009, 08:23 PM
The Heat are facing an uphill battle, but if anyone can make it happen, its D. Wade.

superkegger
03-17-2009, 08:38 PM
You are out of you mind. The Lakers bench is good by their reputation from last year.

Farmar= No defense shooting 41% 7.1 pts 1.9 reb. 2.4 ast. 58% ft
Sasha= Worst defense shooting 37% 33% 3pointer 5.6 pts 1.8 reb 1.5 assist 91% ft
Walton= Worst defender ever shooting 41% 4.8 points 2.6 reb 2.4 assist 68% ft
Powell=Pretty good 48%fg 4.4 points 2.9 reb .04 assist 71%free throws.

Can you please point out to me the all stars?

Duh, the guy you didn't list, DJ Mbenga, the super ultra mega all star.

Anyway, the point about having a better supporting cast is compleely irrational to begin with. If MVP voters looked at that, Bird and Magic would have a combined zero MVP's, and Jordan wouldn't have won one after 1990.

Your supporting cast matters, but really, the better it is, the better chance you have of being a dominant team, and the better chance you have of winning MVP if you're leading that dominant team in a noteworthy manner.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-17-2009, 08:42 PM
Duh, the guy you didn't list, DJ Mbenga, the super ultra mega all star.

Anyway, the point about having a better supporting cast is compleely irrational to begin with. If MVP voters looked at that, Bird and Magic would have a combined zero MVP's, and Jordan wouldn't have won one after 1990.

Your supporting cast matters, but really, the better it is, the better chance you have of being a dominant team, and the better chance you have of winning MVP if you're leading that dominant team in a noteworthy manner.

I totally understand that. Which is why I would never bring it up. But when I see others try to take credit from Kobe by saying he is playing with the greatest team ever assembled, I have to call BS.

Kakaroach
03-17-2009, 08:51 PM
Kobe's current team is better than Wade's current team correct? The Heat would be a max 20-win team without Wade. Pau Gasol single-handedly took his team to the playoffs, even though they were swept. Its pretty simple, its most VALUABLE player, no1 more valuable than Wade. The rest of the team is garbage. Plus, he has his team in good playoff contention.

Kenny
03-17-2009, 09:25 PM
While you wade and kobe fans bicker Lebron just put up a amazing performance and nailed the clutch 3's and free throws...

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-17-2009, 09:29 PM
While you wade and kobe fans bicker Lebron just put up a amazing performance and nailed the clutch 3's and free throws...

He had a great game. I was really suprised. Usually he blows against the better defensive teams and stat pads against the scrubs teams of the league. He really stepped up tonight though

superkegger
03-17-2009, 09:33 PM
Kobe's current team is better than Wade's current team correct? The Heat would be a max 20-win team without Wade. Pau Gasol single-handedly took his team to the playoffs, even though they were swept. Its pretty simple, its most VALUABLE player, no1 more valuable than Wade. The rest of the team is garbage. Plus, he has his team in good playoff contention.

So then why in NBA history, do very few (5) MVP's come from teams lower than 4th place (record wise) in the entire NBA? Is it perhaps because in the definition of MVP, another stat other than ppg, apg, etc... that needs to be considered is wins? Oh, why yes, I beleive that is the answer, wins matter. Wade doesn't have them. Wade will not be MVP. End of story.

superkegger
03-17-2009, 09:36 PM
While you wade and kobe fans bicker Lebron just put up a amazing performance and nailed the clutch 3's and free throws...

No surprise there. He's been extraordinary from 3 and from the line in the clutch this year.

Kakaroach
03-17-2009, 09:36 PM
So then why in NBA history, do very few (5) MVP's come from teams lower than 4th place (record wise) in the entire NBA? Is it perhaps because in the definition of MVP, another stat other than ppg, apg, etc... that needs to be considered is wins? Oh, why yes, I beleive that is the answer, wins matter. Wade doesn't have them. Wade will not be MVP. End of story. Okay first of all, I would not be surprised if Wade did not get MVP. So you think that if Wade and the Heat get the 4th seed, then he will be MVP?

Kenny
03-17-2009, 09:38 PM
He had a great game. I was really suprised. Usually he blows against the better defensive teams and stat pads against the scrubs teams of the league. He really stepped up tonight though

seriously where the heck do you laker fans get this... Lets see in the biggest game last year 45 pts, guy carried his team to the finals in one of the best finishes to a game you will see in the eastern confrence finals.... Oh yeah I guess a regular season game against the Lakers is big to you guys, but before this year when Lebron when the last 5 meetings nobody said a word..

superkegger
03-17-2009, 09:41 PM
Okay first of all, I would not be surprised if Wade did not get MVP. So you think that if Wade and the Heat get the 4th seed, then he will be MVP?

No, that would still put them as about the 10th best team in the NBA. I think the only player to do it from a team worse than 8th was Kareem in 75-76 with his 27-17-5-4-1.5 season when he just absolutely dominated the league on a bad Lakers team.

Kakaroach
03-17-2009, 09:43 PM
No, that would still put them as about the 10th best team in the NBA. I think the only player to do it from a team worse than 8th was Kareem in 75-76 with his 27-17-5-4-1.5 season when he just absolutely dominated the league on a bad Lakers team. Ah, so Wade is not dominating the league?

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-17-2009, 09:48 PM
seriously where the heck do you laker fans get this... Lets see in the biggest game last year 45 pts, guy carried his team to the finals in one of the best finishes to a game you will see in the eastern confrence finals.... Oh yeah I guess a regular season game against the Lakers is big to you guys, but before this year when Lebron when the last 5 meetings nobody said a word..

Nobody should have said anything. Those last 5 meetings, the Lakers were not a good team. Just like I said, he picked on a bad team. He has the capability to get hot and have a big game. He is a great player. But I'm just going by what he has done the past 2 years in the playoffs and this year vs the better teams in the league. Shooting 41% the last two years in the playoffs for a guy who lives at the rim is atrocious. Shooting 35% and averaging 6 turnovers a game in the finals is atrocious. Shooting 35% vs the Celtics last year, only that high because he had one great game is atrocious.

Having a very bad record against the better teams in the league this year because Lebron is shooting horribly (again) is not atrocious, but alarming.

Kenny
03-17-2009, 09:51 PM
Nobody should have said anything. Those last 5 meetings, the Lakers were not a good team. Just like I said, he picked on a bad team. He has the capability to get hot and have a big game. He is a great player. But I'm just going by what he has done the past 2 years in the playoffs and this year vs the better teams in the league. Shooting 41% the last two years in the playoffs for a guy who lives at the rim is atrocious. Shooting 35% and averaging 6 turnovers a game in the finals is atrocious. Shooting 35% vs the Celtics last year, only that high because he had one great game is atrocious.

Having a very bad record against the better teams in the league this year because Lebron is shooting horribly (again) is not atrocious, but alarming.

Yeah because Kopbe with a much better team did so great against the Celtics losing in 6... Guy was not good against the Celts..

Lol saying the lakers werent good, what about last year when he won both meetings.. Lebron's never had a good team before this year...

But theres like 60 laker fans on this site probable trying to break out some stats to defend Kobe when Lebron does something..

cmstophe
03-17-2009, 09:51 PM
LeBron has led us to a 53-13 record, I'm not too alarmed.

superkegger
03-17-2009, 10:04 PM
Ah, so Wade is not dominating the league?

No. had you examined the stats fully, you'd see that Lebron and Wade are very much equal.

Chronz
03-17-2009, 10:04 PM
What are you talking about? This team has a chance to make a run in the playoffs.
Right, so every team in the playoffs has an equal shot at a chip.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-17-2009, 10:06 PM
LeBron has led us to a 53-13 record, I'm not too alarmed.

You shouldn't be. But I know for a fact that you have come in here after the Cavs have had a game vs a good team and called out Lebron for "choking" again. I'm not just making things up out of thin air. If you are a true fan of the Cavs, you have to be concerned with the trend this year and the last couple of playoff years. Lebron loves to settle for jumpers vs good teams. I have seen it time and time again. If he is hitting them, he is the best player in the league. But far too often, he is not.

You can be honest. I'm honest about my concerns for the Lakers. I think our record is better than the way we have played. I'm really doubting this bench. I'm worried Gasol might go soft against physical teams. I'm worried Lamar might decide to disappear for games at a time like he always does. And yes I'm concerned about Kobe's shooting in the finals. His last two finals appearances have been very bad. I hope its not a trend.

See, its not that hard. You can admit some doubt in Lebron. We all know that he has given you guys reasons to be concerned.

Lakers09
03-17-2009, 10:07 PM
kobe...werent you all told to respect your elders

Kakaroach
03-17-2009, 10:08 PM
Right, so every team in the playoffs has an equal shot at a chip. I did not even come close to saying that. I don't think a whole lot of teams have a chance, but D. Wade has elevated his team so that they do have a chance. Granted, so do the other two. I just think if you put Wade on the Lakers or the Cavs, where he actually doesn't have to do everything, then those teams would have the same, or prolly better, records.

superkegger
03-17-2009, 10:13 PM
I did not even come close to saying that. I don't think a whole lot of teams have a chance, but D. Wade has elevated his team so that they do have a chance. Granted, so do the other two. I just think if you put Wade on the Lakers or the Cavs, where he actually doesn't have to do everything, then those teams would have the same, or prolly better, records.

that may very well be true, but how is that a relevant point to the discussion of who should be MVP? You could make that same argument for a number of players, it doesn't make them the MVP either.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-17-2009, 10:13 PM
I did not even come close to saying that. I don't think a whole lot of teams have a chance, but D. Wade has elevated his team so that they do have a chance. Granted, so do the other two. I just think if you put Wade on the Lakers or the Cavs, where he actually doesn't have to do everything, then those teams would have the same, or prolly better, records.

If you put Wade on the Lakers, his numbers would go down. You put Kobe on the Heat, his numbers go up. We would be having the same argument, "put Kobe on the Lakers and they would be......" Wade would not be having the same great statistical season if he had to share the load. We have all seen what Kobe can do when the offense is solely put on his shoulders, so I'm not worried about what type of numbers he would put up. I think they would be pretty remarkable as well.

Chronz
03-17-2009, 10:14 PM
I did not even come close to saying that. I don't think a whole lot of teams have a chance, but D. Wade has elevated his team so that they do have a chance. Granted, so do the other two. I just think if you put Wade on the Lakers or the Cavs, where he actually doesn't have to do everything, then those teams would have the same, or prolly better, records.

And if you replaced Kobe and Bron on the Heat they would be the same or prolly better records, you see why this argument doesnt fly. Whats more impressive, leading a team to lower standards, or leading a team that has a MUCH better chance at accomplishing great things, and certainly a far higher level of play for a regular season.

Kiss Ma Grits
03-17-2009, 10:15 PM
Wade, as great of a player as he is, should NOT win MVP. I know as a Cleveland fan I would be absolutely livid if he did because Nash and Dirk got the award over Lebron because their TEAM had a better record even though his numbers were WAAAY better across the board. If Kobe won I could honestly live with that because Kobe is having a great year and his team has one of the best records in the league but after witnessing Lebron AND Kobe getting punished the last couple of years because of their teams records I think it would be DEAD wrong to turn around a give Wade the award.

Kakaroach
03-17-2009, 10:16 PM
that may very well be true, but how is that a relevant point to the discussion of who should be MVP? You could make that same argument for a number of players, it doesn't make them the MVP either. It does not make him MVP. But you made the argument that LeBron has dominated just as much as Wade, even though Wade has a team with a bunch of scrubs. That is why I feel Wade deserves MVP, granted his team might have to get the #4 seed or better.

cmstophe
03-17-2009, 10:26 PM
You shouldn't be. But I know for a fact that you have come in here after the Cavs have had a game vs a good team and called out Lebron for "choking" again. I'm not just making things up out of thin air. If you are a true fan of the Cavs, you have to be concerned with the trend this year and the last couple of playoff years. Lebron loves to settle for jumpers vs good teams. I have seen it time and time again. If he is hitting them, he is the best player in the league. But far too often, he is not.

You can be honest. I'm honest about my concerns for the Lakers. I think our record is better than the way we have played. I'm really doubting this bench. I'm worried Gasol might go soft against physical teams. I'm worried Lamar might decide to disappear for games at a time like he always does. And yes I'm concerned about Kobe's shooting in the finals. His last two finals appearances have been very bad. I hope its not a trend.

See, its not that hard. You can admit some doubt in Lebron. We all know that he has given you guys reasons to be concerned.

Im already on record saying unless the Cavs improve significantly in the low post and on interior defense we're not winning a title, plain and simple. LeBron, though, I give the benefit of the doubt.

I want to also thank you for being civil and intelligent in your posts on a forum that is just obsessed with whining, moaning, groaning, and complaining/insulting people. I call out LeBron when he has a horrible game. Tonight wasn't one of those nights so why should I be worried about LBJ?

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-17-2009, 10:31 PM
Im already on record saying unless the Cavs improve significantly in the low post and on interior defense we're not winning a title, plain and simple. LeBron, though, I give the benefit of the doubt.

I want to also thank you for being civil and intelligent in your posts on a forum that is just obsessed with whining, moaning, groaning, and complaining/insulting people. I call out LeBron when he has a horrible game. Tonight wasn't one of those nights so why should I be worried about LBJ?

Thanks. And I did not want to call out Lebron. I said he had a great game tonight. It was kind of douche-y of me to bring up his past numbers vs good teams though.

superkegger
03-17-2009, 10:31 PM
Im already on record saying unless the Cavs improve significantly in the low post and on interior defense we're not winning a title, plain and simple. LeBron, though, I give the benefit of the doubt.

I want to also thank you for being civil and intelligent in your posts on a forum that is just obsessed with whining, moaning, groaning, and complaining/insulting people. I call out LeBron when he has a horrible game. Tonight wasn't one of those nights so why should I be worried about LBJ?

You shouldn't be. The only worries about LBJ you should have are if he stays in Cleveland.

Kenny
03-17-2009, 10:32 PM
Why doesnt Mike Brown use Hickson for defense inside anymore.. I liked what i saw out of the kid.. With Wallace out im surprised he isnt playing

cmstophe
03-17-2009, 10:34 PM
You shouldn't be. The only worries about LBJ you should have are if he stays in Cleveland.

Totally off topic, but I'm not even worried about that. Knicks sound like they don't even think he's coming now.

It's all good DODGERS&LAKERS, LeBron has laid some eggs vs good teams but havent they all...I have witnessed (lol, sorry) LeBron absolutely shred teams like Boston and Orlando now, so color me a believer.

superkegger
03-17-2009, 10:34 PM
Why doesnt Mike Brown use Hickson for defense inside anymore.. I liked what i saw out of the kid.. With Wallace out im surprised he isnt playing

probably not the place for this. :D

Chronz
03-17-2009, 10:36 PM
It does not make him MVP. But you made the argument that LeBron has dominated just as much as Wade, even though Wade has a team with a bunch of scrubs. That is why I feel Wade deserves MVP, granted his team might have to get the #4 seed or better.
Its because he has scrubs that the team NEEDS him to do alot more, your going in circles man.

Kiss Ma Grits
03-17-2009, 10:36 PM
You shouldn't be. The only worries about LBJ you should have are if he stays in Cleveland.

I don't think about that anymore. He would be absolutely dumb to leave at this point unless they fall way off. Cleveland will have tons of talent on the team and a ton of money to spend in 2010. Worried? Not as much as I was at the beginning of the season. I doubt that many Cavalier fans are worried.

Kakaroach
03-17-2009, 10:38 PM
Its because he has scrubs that the team NEEDS him to do alot more, your going in circles man. And just like an MVP, he has stepped up and been spectacular. I'm not going in circles man, just making a good argument for an amazing player. :)

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-17-2009, 10:39 PM
You shouldn't be. The only worries about LBJ you should have are if he stays in Cleveland.

You dont really think he will leave do you? I think some big time free agent is going to sign with Cleavland. If the Cavs sucked, I could see him leaving. But if he is about winning, he will stay. Not to mention they can give him way more money. That Nike bonus was only if he got to a big market in his rookie season. I'm pretty sure that is off the table now.

Chronz
03-17-2009, 10:41 PM
And just like an MVP, he has stepped up and been spectacular. I'm not going in circles man, just making a good argument for an amazing player. :)
Hardly, like I said before, put Bron and Kobe on the Heat and they would be just as good if not better. So whats more impressive the guys who are stepping up and leading their teams to a higher level of play or the guy whos not leading his team as well?

cmstophe
03-17-2009, 10:46 PM
You dont really think he will leave do you? I think some big time free agent is going to sign with Cleavland. If the Cavs sucked, I could see him leaving. But if he is about winning, he will stay. Not to mention they can give him way more money. That Nike bonus was only if he got to a big market in his rookie season. I'm pretty sure that is off the table now.

Really not the place for this but with the cap going down I dont think anyone, is going anywhere.

Kakaroach
03-17-2009, 10:48 PM
Hardly, like I said before, put Bron and Kobe on the Heat and they would be just as good if not better. So whats more impressive the guys who are stepping up and leading their teams to a higher level of play or the guy whos not leading his team as well? But Wade is leading a 20 win MAX team to the playoffs, and as the #5 seed as of right now. Therefore, raising his team to a higher level. Might I remind you 4 rookies or 2nd year players in the rotation and a washed up JO.

superkegger
03-17-2009, 10:50 PM
But Wade is leading a 20 win MAX team to the playoffs, and as the #5 seed as of right now. Therefore, raising his team to a higher level. Might I remind you 4 rookies in the rotation and a washed up JO.

Yet not MVP worthy. Look at the history, the MVP has historically been given to winners, not mediocrity.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-17-2009, 10:53 PM
But Wade is leading a 20 win MAX team to the playoffs, and as the #5 seed as of right now. Therefore, raising his team to a higher level. Might I remind you 4 rookies in the rotation and a washed up JO.

Lebron is going to win it my freind. Its nothing against DWade, he has been great. But unless he can get the Heat to win 14 of thier next 16, he is not going to win the Award.

But it does not matter. He has the best MVP trophy a player can have. Thats really the only one that matters

29$JerZ
03-17-2009, 10:56 PM
LeBron will win, imo Kobe or Dwight should win it. Wade just won't get it because of his teams record.

Chronz
03-17-2009, 10:56 PM
But Wade is leading a 20 win MAX team to the playoffs, and as the #5 seed as of right now. Therefore, raising his team to a higher level. Might I remind you 4 rookies or 2nd year players in the rotation and a washed up JO.
Yes, just like LeBron or Kobe would if they were in that situation. So whats more impressive the guys who are leading their teams to something greater, or the guy whos doing less? Your acting as if the Heat and Lakers/Cavs have identical records, you expect Wade to do that with the Heat, hes a superstar. But the MVP isnt about who can carry scrubs, its about who can lead their team to the ultimate level of success, they are in the business of winning are they not.

cmstophe
03-17-2009, 10:58 PM
LeBron will win, imo Kobe or Dwight should win it. Wade just won't get it because of his teams record.

Why should Kobe or Dwight get it over LBJ right now?

Kakaroach
03-17-2009, 11:24 PM
Yes, just like LeBron or Kobe would if they were in that situation. So whats more impressive the guys who are leading their teams to something greater, or the guy whos doing less? Your acting as if the Heat and Lakers/Cavs have identical records, you expect Wade to do that with the Heat, hes a superstar. But the MVP isnt about who can carry scrubs, its about who can lead their team to the ultimate level of success, they are in the business of winning are they not. Yes they are, the difference here is that Wade is with scrubs, and the other two are not. The same argument Wade fans have been making all season. I agree with you that he won't get it unless they get the 4th seed or better down the stretch.

MickeyMgl
03-17-2009, 11:47 PM
OMG Stop bringing up the past this is about NOW! IDC about Kobe... but if you don't have Wade in your top 3 right now I don't know about you... because what he has did for the Heat is amazing.

The past is precedent.

MickeyMgl
03-17-2009, 11:48 PM
i dont know what u mean
but i dont like kobe.. that is not a secret.. i think he is a cocky jerk, and if u didnt notice the lakers had issues before gasol got there. so i would call mvp before kobe.

The Lakers were the #1 seed last year even before Gasol got there.

Vinny642
03-17-2009, 11:51 PM
The past is precedent.

The Past has nothing to do with what Wade is doing for Miami. Who can you put ahead of Wade that is not Lebron or Kobe? Not Dwight. Not Paul. who then?

Vinny642
03-17-2009, 11:52 PM
Some Laker fan, when is Bynum coming back?

MickeyMgl
03-17-2009, 11:54 PM
HMM
i dont understand how u can compare wade's team... to kobe's team

The comparison was this year's Heat to the Lakers of early last year. In that comparison, you are underestimating the awesome demoralizing impact of Kwame Brown upon any team he plays with.

MickeyMgl
03-18-2009, 12:00 AM
i dont like kobe plain and simple.. he has no integrity... no loyality.. ie snitching on shaq, and saying he wanted to be traded like the whole off season, and then plays and then when things dont go his way he wants to be traded.. until gasol comes along... and now he is a laker 4 life.. whatever.. i like lbj, and we all know i love dwyane tyrone wade jr

Well, that's what I mean by sticking with the agenda. You list your top five MVP candidates, and specifically omit Bryant, and the main reasons you cite are "I don't like him", "he's cocky", etc. You also show a skewed view of past events. ("snitching", "until Gasol comes along", etc.) Nothing that has to do with being an MVP.

I say be true to yourself. "Wade for President! Yay!"

MickeyMgl
03-18-2009, 12:07 AM
wade has the best stats, and some of them are by more then 2. If you see the string of games that he has put up over the past couple of weeks, you will be amazed. Go look at the box scores, all of the 40 point games and 50's and 30s. He also rebounds with an average of 8, and he consistently gets over 10 assists per game. He is only starting to get the credit that he has deserved all year, and he has put up games like this through out the season. He is winning also, and his team would be nothing without him. He is truely the most valuable to his team. The Lakers could win without him. And yes, the Cavs could win, they have enought talent. Kobe is not deserving of the MVP, he rarely assists or boards. He is a one-sided player, and i think it comes down to Lebron and Wade. Wade wins though, and if you dont think he deserve it, there is truely something wrong with you.

What is wrong with me is apparently the fact that I've been watching basketball for more than the two years that the average Heat fan has. I have too much perspective.

MickeyMgl
03-18-2009, 12:15 AM
He didn't get the Mvp because he wasnt the most valuable player that year!!

It'll be the same thing for Wade this year.

RaysFan
03-18-2009, 01:04 AM
LeBron is the MVP. Can a case even be made for anyone else?

lakers4sho
03-18-2009, 01:06 AM
LeBron is the MVP. Can a case even be made for anyone else?

Definitely.

LeBron being the frontrunner for MVP doesn't mean you can't make a case for anyone else.

Vinny642
03-18-2009, 01:08 AM
Wade and Kobe have cases

RaysFan
03-18-2009, 01:13 AM
I don't know. I can't see how anyone would put Kobe or Wade ahead of LeBron.

Vinny642
03-18-2009, 01:16 AM
I don't know. I can't see how anyone would put Kobe or Wade ahead of LeBron.

No, they aren't but you can make a case for them... Kobe loses his case if he doesn't get the best record, and Wade loses his case if his team drops to 6 or under in the East. Right now Lebron has it unless he messes up these last games.

GoatMilk
03-18-2009, 01:21 AM
LeBron clinched the MVP this Tuesday.
He has been in the lead all season long, but he officially clinched it.
He will get his trophy in what, late April early May?

IRUAM #21
03-18-2009, 01:23 AM
Mark Blount

/Thread

Vinny642
03-18-2009, 01:25 AM
**** that Ryan Bowen

GoatMilk
03-18-2009, 01:27 AM
pssssh
Hamed Hadadi

still1ballin
03-18-2009, 01:27 AM
Mark Blount

/Thread

dude you got it right on the point.....this people, this is a guy who knows was he is talking about! IRAUM for MOD!!!! ....... lebron got nothing on mark blount!

Vinny642
03-18-2009, 01:29 AM
Yo like I asked before when is Bynum coming back??

GoatMilk
03-18-2009, 01:32 AM
Yo like I asked before when is Bynum coming back??

idk if your talking to me or not, but they say 2-3 weeks
maybe midaway through our 7 game road trip. thats best case i think

Vinny642
03-18-2009, 01:34 AM
idk if your talking to me or not, but they say 2-3 weeks
maybe midaway through our 7 game road trip. thats best case i think

I was taking in general but more towards Laker fans since they should know about his situation. Think he'll come back the same?

GSW fan
03-18-2009, 01:36 AM
shouldve been a 3 man poll.

honestly.no one else has a chance

u could put howard and cp3 there too but they are not going to win.

at this point i say
1 lebron
2 wade
3 kobe

GoatMilk
03-18-2009, 01:44 AM
I was taking in general but more towards Laker fans since they should know about his situation. Think he'll come back the same?
all we need is his size, rebounding, defense
i think he'll be ok. He looks determined in every interview he's done

codes238
03-18-2009, 01:45 AM
shouldve been a 3 man poll.

honestly.no one else has a chance

u could put howard and cp3 there too but they are not going to win.

at this point i say
1 lebron
2 wade
3 kobe

i agree with you but to an extent its unfortunate... todays media is obsessed with swingman players and CP3 and dwight really arent getting their due... do you guys realize that howard is averaging 21 points on 58% shooting and leading the league in rebounds and blocks!? and how valuable is he to his team? take DH of the magic and theyre struggling to make the playoffs... CP3 is averaging 21 points while leading the league in assists and steals... new orleans would be one of the worst teams in the league if it wasnt for him, but with him theyre a borderline contender... i think these 2 guys deserve to be in the MVP conversation just as much as wade, kobe and lebron do...

superkegger
03-18-2009, 02:00 AM
I was taking in general but more towards Laker fans since they should know about his situation. Think he'll come back the same?

If you want to know about Bynum and his recovery, why don't you go to the laker forum and click onthe thread Bynum: the road to recovery, instead of adressing the issue where it is off topic.

Anyway, as mentioned earlier, I think tonight might just have been the turning point where Lebron clinched it. He had a hell of a perfromance, and won the game while the Lakers lost. While it has pretty much been lebrons MVP to lost for sometime and he could still lose it, when he does win it, I think tonight will be the night were it was pretty clear to the voters, it was his.

Kobe still has a chance, as we all well know he can play crazy ridiculous basketball and throw up 50+ 4 straight games or some ****, but its probably not going to happen with this laker team. LeBron pretty much has this one in the bag.

Chronz
03-18-2009, 02:38 AM
Yes they are, the difference here is that Wade is with scrubs, and the other two are not. The same argument Wade fans have been making all season. I agree with you that he won't get it unless they get the 4th seed or better down the stretch.
Exactly, the difference is that they are leading their teams to much more success because of it. Again the MVP isnt who can carry scrubs to the playoffs, thats expected from a superstar, the MVP is about who can lead their team to the highest level of success in dominating fashion.

I know the argument Wade fans have been making and Ive been responding with the same thing all year as well.

GoatMilk
03-18-2009, 05:17 AM
1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. CP
5. Dwight
6. Duncan
7. Pierce
8. Deron
9. Chauncey
10. Joe Johnson

Thats my top 10

kntresistheheat
03-18-2009, 10:22 AM
If you want to know about Bynum and his recovery, why don't you go to the laker forum and click onthe thread Bynum: the road to recovery, instead of adressing the issue where it is off topic.

Anyway, as mentioned earlier, I think tonight might just have been the turning point where Lebron clinched it. He had a hell of a perfromance, and won the game while the Lakers lost. While it has pretty much been lebrons MVP to lost for sometime and he could still lose it, when he does win it, I think tonight will be the night were it was pretty clear to the voters, it was his.

Kobe still has a chance, as we all well know he can play crazy ridiculous basketball and throw up 50+ 4 straight games or some ****, but its probably not going to happen with this laker team. LeBron pretty much has this one in the bag.




You are the most annoying person, He just asked a question:rolleyes:People go of topic in a every thread....Your like that kid in school that everybody wanted to pick on because you were so annoying:rolleyes:OH btw we understand that you have a man crush on Kobe and Lebron, So we all know that lebron is the mvp you can stop claiming your case:rolleyes:We all knew this from the begining of the season because he is the poster boy of the nba and kobe got his last year. We all knew it was lebrons turn,and we heat fans will atleast me was just pulling on your leg because you would come in here with all these numbers and facts that we all could look up ourselfs.Yes we heat fans support our star and if we feel he should atleast be in the convo of the mvp talk 'so dam it we will support him' Wade is our MVP!!!!


Ps. We heat fans know that wade would not win because of our team record, we just felt that the mvp voting should be changed because it is flawed system. SO everybody I am saying it right now wade will not win the mvp and lebron had this by a mile.

JordansBulls
03-18-2009, 11:12 AM
Lebron at this point has the MVP locked up.

Howeever other guys will get some votes as well.

Gasol should be getting some serious love as well. Dude has been consistent all year.

nickster16301
03-18-2009, 11:26 AM
lebron is by far the mvp

IRUAM #21
03-18-2009, 11:43 AM
dude you got it right on the point.....this people, this is a guy who knows was he is talking about! IRAUM for MOD!!!! ....... lebron got nothing on mark blount!

:cheers:

superkegger
03-18-2009, 12:56 PM
You are the most annoying person, He just asked a question:rolleyes:People go of topic in a every thread....Your like that kid in school that everybody wanted to pick on because you were so annoying:rolleyes:OH btw we understand that you have a man crush on Kobe and Lebron, So we all know that lebron is the mvp you can stop claiming your case:rolleyes:We all knew this from the begining of the season because he is the poster boy of the nba and kobe got his last year. We all knew it was lebrons turn,and we heat fans will atleast me was just pulling on your leg because you would come in here with all these numbers and facts that we all could look up ourselfs.Yes we heat fans support our star and if we feel he should atleast be in the convo of the mvp talk 'so dam it we will support him' Wade is our MVP!!!!


Ps. We heat fans know that wade would not win because of our team record, we just felt that the mvp voting should be changed because it is flawed system. SO everybody I am saying it right now wade will not win the mvp and lebron had this by a mile.


I don't really care if you don't like me. It's an MVP thread, and I was simply trying to keep it on topic. I don't see the problem.

LeBron winning the MVP has nothing to do with him being the poster boy of the NBA. He'll win it because he's the most qualified. I don't have a man crush on LeBron, not a big fan of his at all really. Just respect what he does. Yes, I'm a Kobe fan. My "man crush" on Kobe clearly not as ridiculous as your hardcore dick riding of wade.

You claim to be just "pulling my leg" and maybe that's what you were doing. But countless numbers of other wade fans weren't just pulling somebody's leg. They seriously think that Wade is the most qualified, and haven't looked up the stats for themselves. They're ignorant fanboys without having any real understanding of what the MVP is, just basing it all off of what they think and feel and not realyity.

Because they haven't actually looked at the stats or the history, they don't understand that he is not the most qualified. You claim to have understood this from the begining, which I higly doubt, since you among many other heat fans talk about his Wade's weak supporting cast as to why he should be MVP.

You can gripe about how the MVP is voted all you want, but winning games is going to remain an important stat in how the MVP race is decided. You can claim it's flawed, but really, will you be making that same argument in 2-3 years when the heat are back to being a good team, and Wade is in those MVP talks? Or will you likely be saying someone like perhaps Kevin Durant shouldn't be MVP because he doesn't have the wins?

b_rad23
03-18-2009, 01:12 PM
What they should do is write out criterea for the award this offseason.

NYMetros
03-18-2009, 01:15 PM
Is the MVP like a points system where the voters rank the guys they want to be MVP in order, and the person with the most points overall wins? Or do the voters just get 1 vote and say who they think it should be? Anyone know?

superkegger
03-18-2009, 01:25 PM
Is the MVP like a points system where the voters rank the guys they want to be MVP in order, and the person with the most points overall wins? Or do the voters just get 1 vote and say who they think it should be? Anyone know?

I'm not exactly sure how far they rank their MVP candidates, but it's somewhat like the Heisman, where you rank your MVP candidates; I'm just not sure how long a list they rank. I wanna say it's to at least 5, because if you look at MVP voting, the lists are quite long if they were only to vote for their top 3.

If you look at last year's voting (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.html#mvp) 17 guys recieved vots of some kind, but only Kobe, Paul, KG and LeBron recieved any first place votes, with Kobe getting 82 first place votes and a 1105 points.

That answer your question?

Jonathan2323
03-18-2009, 01:27 PM
if the Heat go 12-4 the rest of the way. mark it down Wade will win the MVP.

KnicksorBust
03-18-2009, 02:35 PM
if the Heat go 12-4 the rest of the way. mark it down Wade will win the MVP.

That would be unprecedented. LeBron is putting up almost 30-7-7 and his team will probably end up with the best record in the NBA. If that's not enough to get you MVP then I don't know what is. What more does the guy have to do?

NYMetros
03-18-2009, 03:41 PM
I'm not exactly sure how far they rank their MVP candidates, but it's somewhat like the Heisman, where you rank your MVP candidates; I'm just not sure how long a list they rank. I wanna say it's to at least 5, because if you look at MVP voting, the lists are quite long if they were only to vote for their top 3.

If you look at last year's voting (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.html#mvp) 17 guys recieved vots of some kind, but only Kobe, Paul, KG and LeBron recieved any first place votes, with Kobe getting 82 first place votes and a 1105 points.

That answer your question?

Thanks. I don't really like that voting process, though. Sometimes voters will put the player that deserves to be 2nd further down or in last in their ballot because they don't want him to have a chance at winning.

For example, someone puts Wade at 6th in their ballot -- even though we all know he should at least be in the top 3 or 4 -- because that person wants LeBron to win.

IRUAM #21
03-18-2009, 03:49 PM
Pops Mensah Bonsu !!!

ShaunRiching9
03-18-2009, 03:52 PM
Lebron should win IMO.

superkegger
03-18-2009, 04:17 PM
Thanks. I don't really like that voting process, though. Sometimes voters will put the player that deserves to be 2nd further down or in last in their ballot because they don't want him to have a chance at winning.

For example, someone puts Wade at 6th in their ballot -- even though we all know he should at least be in the top 3 or 4 -- because that person wants LeBron to win.

That's probably true to an extent. However with 3 writers from each of the t30 NBA cities and 35 other media members, it balances itself out, I don't think there has been any real close calls where something like you mentioned would come into play. I mean maybe, but with such a large pool of journalists, many of whom aren't biased towards one candidate or the other I would like to think that they usually vote for the award in such a manner that isn't putting who they want to win, and not who deserves it. There have been some odd cases in the voting, but I think as a general whole, the writers have shown a great consistency in the voting.

still1ballin
03-18-2009, 04:26 PM
Pops Mensah Bonsu !!!

Mbah a Moute!

IRUAM #21
03-18-2009, 04:39 PM
Abdur Rahim !!!!!!

JordansBulls
03-18-2009, 05:23 PM
That would be unprecedented. LeBron is putting up almost 30-7-7 and his team will probably end up with the best record in the NBA. If that's not enough to get you MVP then I don't know what is. What more does the guy have to do?

Totally agree. Not to mention he is leading the league in PER and Win Shares as well and basically double the win shares as the next player on his team.

MickeyMgl
03-18-2009, 06:08 PM
if the Heat go 12-4 the rest of the way. mark it down Wade will win the MVP.

Yeah, I'll mark it down right here on my "List of Things That Won't Happen".

still1ballin
03-18-2009, 06:32 PM
Abdur Rahim !!!!!!

Chek Samb!

IRUAM #21
03-18-2009, 06:33 PM
Slava Mevdedenko

still1ballin
03-18-2009, 06:53 PM
Didier Ilunga Mbenga

IRUAM #21
03-18-2009, 07:22 PM
Vitaly Potapenko

cmstophe
03-18-2009, 07:28 PM
Wade should be scratched from MVP discussion for sitting out tonight with "general soreness".

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
03-18-2009, 07:29 PM
Wade should be scratched from MVP discussion for sitting out tonight with "general soreness".

I think LeBron has it now, especially with that win last night. And LA losing.

cmstophe
03-18-2009, 07:30 PM
Yeah, LeBron pretty much has MVP wrapped up unless he gets injured. He is putting up incredible numbers with his team being #1 in the NBA. If he got snubbed for MVP that'd be ludicrous.

Kakaroach
03-18-2009, 07:39 PM
Does this pathetic 1st quarter make it seem as if a certain team is missing D. Wade sorely? This team is absolutely nothing without him. Of course by now, LeBron prolly has it wrapped up.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
03-18-2009, 07:40 PM
Does this pathetic 1st quarter make it seem as if a certain team is missing D. Wade sorely? This team is absolutely nothing without him. Of course by now, LeBron prolly has it wrapped up.

But considering he is only averaging 1 point more then LeBron and he has a much larger scoring load, its not that big of a factor.

IRUAM #21
03-18-2009, 07:41 PM
God it's so Pathetic watching the Heat play without Wade :cry:

ARMIN12NBA
03-18-2009, 08:06 PM
God it's so Pathetic watching the Heat play without Wade :cry:

The Heat are actually winning. They are playing well without Wade.

cmstophe
03-18-2009, 08:15 PM
It's so pathetic...that the Heat are up at the half! ;)

Chronz
03-18-2009, 08:19 PM
Does this pathetic 1st quarter make it seem as if a certain team is missing D. Wade sorely? This team is absolutely nothing without him. Of course by now, LeBron prolly has it wrapped up.

Of course they miss him, why wouldnt they?

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-18-2009, 08:27 PM
Are you Heat fans secretly hoping the Heat get blown out just to prove your point?

ARMIN12NBA
03-18-2009, 08:33 PM
Are you Heat fans secretly hoping the Heat get blown out just to prove your point?

Probably.

PapelbonLester
03-18-2009, 09:14 PM
Yeah wtf is Wade doing sitting out. A true Mvp plays the big games especially when the whole world is watching on espn. LAME!!! LEBRON 4 MVP!!!!!!!!!!

mrs rose
03-18-2009, 09:31 PM
Wade should be scratched from MVP discussion for sitting out tonight with "general soreness".

*coughs*
after 5 overtimes, and all the strain of the season what wade is doing is smart... we have a HUGE game against the pistons.... and they are chasing miami for the 5th seed in their home court.. i thinks it takes a humble man to take a back sit for the benefit of his team.... true mvp swag

NYMetros
03-18-2009, 10:16 PM
The Heat did pretty well without Wade tonight.

superkegger
03-18-2009, 10:25 PM
The Heat did pretty well without Wade tonight.

yeah. ESPN has to be pissed though. No wade, KG, or ray allen. I wonder how many people changed the channel when they saw that.

ARMIN12NBA
03-18-2009, 10:26 PM
The Heat did pretty well without Wade tonight.

Heat fans and even the media underrate the heck out of Wade's supporting cast.

NYMetros
03-18-2009, 10:34 PM
yeah. ESPN has to be pissed though. No wade, KG, or ray allen. I wonder how many people changed the channel when they saw that.

If anyone did do that, they missed a phenomenal game.


Heat fans and even the media underrate the heck out of Wade's supporting cast.

Agreed. Beasley, Mario, Luther, Moon, Haslem, and Jermaine are ballers.

Vinny642
03-18-2009, 10:44 PM
If you want to know about Bynum and his recovery, why don't you go to the laker forum and click onthe thread Bynum: the road to recovery, instead of adressing the issue where it is off topic.

Anyway, as mentioned earlier, I think tonight might just have been the turning point where Lebron clinched it. He had a hell of a perfromance, and won the game while the Lakers lost. While it has pretty much been lebrons MVP to lost for sometime and he could still lose it, when he does win it, I think tonight will be the night were it was pretty clear to the voters, it was his.

Kobe still has a chance, as we all well know he can play crazy ridiculous basketball and throw up 50+ 4 straight games or some ****, but its probably not going to happen with this laker team. LeBron pretty much has this one in the bag.

Dude shut up, I asked a simple question, not much to make a thread about.

Vinny642
03-18-2009, 10:48 PM
Lebron at this point has the MVP locked up.

Howeever other guys will get some votes as well.

Gasol should be getting some serious love as well. Dude has been consistent all year.

IMO that also makes Lebron and Wade the top 2 people to win the MVP.

b_rad23
03-18-2009, 11:00 PM
If anyone did do that, they missed a phenomenal game.



Agreed. Beasley, Mario, Luther, Moon, Haslem, and Jermaine are ballers.

Haslem and Moon suck. Especially Haslem. If Beasley would start the Heat would be dangerous but in stead Spo is being a ***** politician. Just so I have an excuse for posting this in the MVP thread, I think that if Beasley had started the whole year over Haslem (except obviously when they both started) the Heat would be a 50+ win team.

Anyways good game. Beasley is an animal.

SwaggaIke
03-18-2009, 11:08 PM
Haslem and Moon suck. Especially Haslem. If Beasley would start the Heat would be dangerous but in stead Spo is being a ***** politician. Just so I have an excuse for posting this in the MVP thread, I think that if Beasley had started the whole year over Haslem (except obviously when they both started) the Heat would be a 50+ win team.

Anyways good game. Beasley is an animal.

Don't be a fool son. I hate to son a fellow Heat fan, but to say Haslem sucks is ignorant. Do you know how much he changes the game by just being on the floor? The amount of charges he takes on a game to game basis is insane. Not to mention he was the only player to come out w/ ANY heart to start the game tonight. Beasley is definitely more gifted offensively and the clock is ticking on Udonis as a Heat starter, but to underrate his value to our franchise is ridiculous. We have a talented BUT young supporting cast. Cook, Head and Jones are GUNNERS. J.O has been averaging 18 a game over the past 7 and always comes through w/ blocks and charges. Its obvious that Chalmers will be a damn good floor general in the future and Beasley's talent and hunger to be great are undeniable. We just need maturity as a unit after D Wade. Once this group has a few years of experience under their belt you'll see us back in the discussion as one of the leagues top teams.

Vinny642
03-18-2009, 11:11 PM
Haslem isn't bad, he isn't top 10 PF but saying he sucks?? come on your heat fan, you shouldn't be saying that, that should come from a different team's fan

ARMIN12NBA
03-18-2009, 11:13 PM
Don't be a fool son. I hate to son a fellow Heat fan, but to say Haslem sucks is ignorant. Do you know how much he changes the game by just being on the floor? The amount of charges he takes on a game to game basis is insane. Not to mention he was the only player to come out w/ ANY heart to start the game tonight. Beasley is definitely more gifted offensively and the clock is ticking on Udonis as a Heat starter, but to underrate his value to our franchise is ridiculous. We have a talented BUT young supporting cast. Cook, Head and Jones are GUNNERS. J.O has been averaging 18 a game over the past 7 and always comes through w/ blocks and charges. Its obvious that Chalmers will be a damn good floor general in the future and Beasley's talent and hunger to be great are undeniable. We just need maturity as a unit after D Wade. Once this group has a few years of experience under their belt you'll see us back in the discussion as one of the leagues top teams.

A Heat fan that actually sings praises about the supporting cast. Wow.

still1ballin
03-18-2009, 11:18 PM
A Heat fan that actually sings praises about the supporting cast. Wow.

heh I know, you don't see that everyday:eyebrow:

rapswin98
03-18-2009, 11:21 PM
Vitaly Potapenkowho the **** is he:confused:

still1ballin
03-18-2009, 11:28 PM
who the **** is he:confused:

He is one of the greatest big man to ever play the game. Kemp<Vitaly.

BTW your sig :drool: makes me wanna doink her right now.

_Sn1P3r_
03-18-2009, 11:30 PM
If anyone did do that, they missed a phenomenal game.



Agreed. Beasley, Mario, Luther, Moon, Haslem, and Jermaine are ballers.

Agreed with both points.

IRUAM #21
03-18-2009, 11:31 PM
He is one of the greatest big man to ever play the game. Kemp<Vitaly.

BTW your sig :drool: makes me wanna doink her right now.

Yes i just got a Boner looking at his Sig, btw i cant believe the Heat played so well without Wade :speechless:

SwaggaIke
03-18-2009, 11:33 PM
A Heat fan that actually sings praises about the supporting cast. Wow.

Too many of our fans have already forgotten where we were last year in terms of our wins/loses AND our roster. For a 1 year turnover, Spo and Riley have done EXCELLENT jobs in their respective positions. We now actually have a YOUNG CORE, that we can look forward to. Not a team of grizzly vets that we know won't stick together for more than 2 seasons. Yes that formula did win us a championship, but its always better to build your core and add the necessary pieces as time passes. As I said earlier, i'm pleased w/ this team thus far and pleased w/ the roster Pat has assembled just one season after last years monumental collapse.

Vinny642
03-18-2009, 11:34 PM
They did great, them ESPN announcers were so freaking annoying everytime Pierce scored one of them would scream GOOD!!! or something I forgot which one that is.

still1ballin
03-18-2009, 11:39 PM
Yes i just got a Boner looking at his Sig, btw i cant believe the Heat played so well without Wade :speechless:

Same, at first watching them getting their *** whooped, I was like ahh this game is over, and turn off the tv. Come back later and tie ball game. I was :speechless:....they could of easily pulled it out. Good experiece for the Heat though.

still1ballin
03-18-2009, 11:41 PM
Yes i just got a Boner looking at his Sig, btw i cant believe the Heat played so well without Wade :speechless:

BTW after seeing that Vida pic, I google images her. Thank you for who ever invented the camera for a cell phone!:D

majmarcus
03-19-2009, 02:06 AM
Why hasn't anyone brought it to the attention of the public of how the MVP award has been flat out cheapend over the yrs? Ex-1: What is this Makin your teammates better Crap? It's the "Mvp's" job to find the open guy,right?He isn't anymore responsible for the lame who misses the the open j than the coach.2,You light it up the last 10-15 games out of 60+ now ur an mvp canidate......Yes I'm talkin bout D-whistle.3,Kobe had absolutely no help,Nash gets it with the help of Amare,Bell,Marion,Diaw,& Barbosa.Now KB24 has to much help to be 1st choice.It's Lebron's award to lose,lol! Best Player on the best team.......yeah,right,that's how the MVP should be determined.The so called "Experts" are very Lazy & Dumb!:confused:

Kyle N.
03-19-2009, 02:08 AM
LeBron is almost guaranteed to win it, what are you complaining about!

GoatMilk
03-19-2009, 02:34 AM
^lol Kyle speaks the truth
and you could lose the "almost". he's guaranteed the MVP

LakeShowRaider
03-19-2009, 02:36 AM
Why hasn't anyone brought it to the attention of the public of how the MVP award has been flat out cheapend over the yrs? Ex-1: What is this Makin your teammates better Crap? It's the "Mvp's" job to find the open guy,right?He isn't anymore responsible for the lame who misses the the open j than the coach.2,You light it up the last 10-15 games out of 60+ now ur an mvp canidate......Yes I'm talkin bout D-whistle.3,Kobe had absolutely no help,Nash gets it with the help of Amare,Bell,Marion,Diaw,& Barbosa.Now KB24 has to much help to be 1st choice.It's Lebron's award to lose,lol! Best Player on the best team.......yeah,right,that's how the MVP should be determined.The so called "Experts" are very Lazy & Dumb!:confused:

I think those are 2 really valid points you just made. Especially the one about D Wade. Yea he's great but I mean look the last 2 games he hasnt done jack and today he sat out. So Cmon. Kobe never sits out games unless theyre crazy injuries. Even though I would count dislocating fingers on your shooting hand a pretty crazy injury.

Right now its going to LeBron but if Kobe and the Lakers get a better record then no doubt it needs to go to Kobe not LeBron.

goku
03-19-2009, 03:01 AM
I think those are 2 really valid points you just made. Especially the one about D Wade. Yea he's great but I mean look the last 2 games he hasnt done jack and today he sat out. So Cmon. Kobe never sits out games unless theyre crazy injuries. Even though I would count dislocating fingers on your shooting hand a pretty crazy injury.

Right now its going to LeBron but if Kobe and the Lakers get a better record then no doubt it needs to go to Kobe not LeBron.

even if the lakers get a better record kobe still wont win cavs just need the number 1 seed in the east cause everbody knew the lakers were going to be good but not the cavs at the beginning of the season if you ask anybody nobody would have thought the cavs would have the best record in the east at best they would have been the 4th seed not 1seed

Lakersfan2483
03-19-2009, 03:07 AM
Lebron at this point has the MVP locked up.

Howeever other guys will get some votes as well.

Gasol should be getting some serious love as well. Dude has been consistent all year.

Top MVP candidates: Lebron, Kobe, Howard, D. Wade, CP3, Duncan, Billups. Gasol has been outstanding this year, but he's not in the top in terms of the MVP race. Gasol is perfectly suited in his role as the no. 2 guy on the team and has been very consistent as you mentioned. I say all of that to say that it's a completely different game out there when you are expected to deliver every game and lead your team as opposed to being the no. 2 guy. For example, it's like having Larry Bird on the your team and stating that Kevin Mchale is the MVP of team and or Scottie Pippen is the MVP of the team with MJ, it just doesn't work like that. Your best player makes the game easier for your 2nd guy, etc..., and is the person that is ultimately responsible for the success of the team..... Obviously, having a great no. 2 guy like Gasol and or a Pierce, etc.. makes a huge difference in terms of competing for a title.

*Just a thought, how many guys have ever won an MVP and have not even been the best player on their respective team?

Chronz
03-19-2009, 05:02 AM
For example, it's like having Larry Bird on the your team and stating that Kevin Mchale is the MVP of team and or Scottie Pippen is the MVP of the team with MJ, it just doesn't work like that. Your best player makes the game easier for your 2nd guy, etc..., and is the person that is ultimately responsible for the success of the team..... Obviously, having a great no. 2 guy like Gasol and or a Pierce, etc.. makes a huge difference in terms of competing for a title.

*Just a thought, how many guys have ever won an MVP and have not even been the best player on their respective team?

That was arguably true at one point, even Bird admitted it and even told McHale he should be gunning for the MVP because you never know how often in your career your going to be playing at a certain level. In the end both Bird and McHale were in the top4 of the MVP race so it does happen if the 2 players are contributing at similar levels.

mrs rose
03-19-2009, 06:00 PM
Too many of our fans have already forgotten where we were last year in terms of our wins/loses AND our roster. For a 1 year turnover, Spo and Riley have done EXCELLENT jobs in their respective positions. We now actually have a YOUNG CORE, that we can look forward to. Not a team of grizzly vets that we know won't stick together for more than 2 seasons. Yes that formula did win us a championship, but its always better to build your core and add the necessary pieces as time passes. As I said earlier, i'm pleased w/ this team thus far and pleased w/ the roster Pat has assembled just one season after last years monumental collapse.

great post..
now i can say.. you know about miami heat basketball.. again, great post!:clap:

what54!?
03-20-2009, 01:44 AM
The heat do have a good supporting cast but the problem is their inconsistent. Some games they can look like they did against Boston and other games they just stand around and make wade do all the work. But we have young team (except for J.O., he's getting better in the system) so it takes time but whatever. I just want to lock down the 5th spot

D.Rose#1
03-20-2009, 05:47 PM
lebrons going to win it but wade should win it

Kakaroach
03-20-2009, 06:38 PM
WADE WADE WADE. Lebron will most likely take it though. I don't even think Kobe can over-take unless he plays like a demi-god for the rest of the season.

dolfan720
03-20-2009, 08:30 PM
yao will win it hahaha

nouveauAG
03-20-2009, 11:49 PM
As much as I hate to say LBJ deserves it this year. Bryant already got his. Eventhough it was more of a lifetime achievement award than an MVP. Paul really deserved it that year, but the Lakers finished ahead of them so he gets the nod.

To me, Wade is second. Even though they are not winning, as much as the other two main candidates, he is having a spectacular season. But I heard, he is hurt. He has to get back on the court soon to stay in the running.

LBJ gets it. Because quite frankly, I knew the Cavs were this good, but I don't anyone suspected they would have the record they have at this point and its all because of him. I think they only loss one game at home and he leads the league in triple doubles this year. He is the MVP. However I think if the Magic were second in the East, Howard would have a strong case.

Vinny642
03-20-2009, 11:54 PM
as much as i hate to say lbj deserves it this year. bryant already got his. Eventhough it was more of a lifetime achievement award than an mvp. Paul really deserved it that year, but the lakers finished ahead of them so he gets the nod.

To me, wade is second. Even though they are not winning, as much as the other two main candidates, he is having a spectacular season. But i heard, he is hurt. He has to get back on the court soon to stay in the running.

Lbj gets it. Because quite frankly, i knew the cavs were this good, but i don't anyone suspected they would have the record they have at this point and its all because of him. I think they only loss one game at home and he leads the league in triple doubles this year. He is the mvp. However i think if the magic were second in the east, howard would have a strong case.

love it

sk7887
03-21-2009, 12:04 AM
wades been the best scorer this year, but not the MVP, scoring isnt everything, i admit wade is my favorite out of the three, but lebron scores just a few less but averages more in almost every other category, kobe honestly doesnt belong in the discussion this year, he just gets thrown in because his name is a basically a trademark

RaysFan
03-21-2009, 01:45 AM
At this point the Lakers will need to have about a 5-game lead over Cleveland for Kobe to get the MVP award. Kobe has better help and a better head coach and that equals at least 5 more wins imo.

Right now the easy choice is LeBron. You have to be a Kobe fan to not want to give it to James. He is having one of the best single seasons I can ever remember. What he is doing for Cleveland as a leader, in "crunch" time, on and off the court, etc is just shocking.

This will be the first of many for "King" James.

lakers4sho
03-21-2009, 01:48 AM
^^ you need to watch more Laker games then.

Saying that Kobe has a "better supporting cast" this season is sooo overrated you don't even realize.

Lakersfan2483
03-21-2009, 02:40 AM
At this point the Lakers will need to have about a 5-game lead over Cleveland for Kobe to get the MVP award. Kobe has better help and a better head coach and that equals at least 5 more wins imo.

Right now the easy choice is LeBron. You have to be a Kobe fan to not want to give it to James. He is having one of the best single seasons I can ever remember. What he is doing for Cleveland as a leader, in "crunch" time, on and off the court, etc is just shocking.

This will be the first of many for "King" James.

Cleveland's supporting cast isn't too shabby considering Lebron gets to sit out quite a bit of 4th quarters. I have watched quite a bit of their games and people make it seem as if he doesn't have any help which is bogus. He is surrounded by shooters, has an allstar point guard and one of the better centers in the NBA. Also, Varejao is a hell of a role player to have coming off of the bench. They have a very good team and a good coach.

GoatMilk
03-21-2009, 02:46 AM
wades been the best scorer this year, but not the MVP, scoring isnt everything, i admit wade is my favorite out of the three, but lebron scores just a few less but averages more in almost every other category, kobe honestly doesnt belong in the discussion this year, he just gets thrown in because his name is a basically a trademark

dont be this ignorant
Kobe is on the second best team in the NBA record-wise this season. Of course he deserves to be in the discussion. Look at the teams record and his stats

Lakersfan2483
03-21-2009, 03:00 AM
wades been the best scorer this year, but not the MVP, scoring isnt everything, i admit wade is my favorite out of the three, but lebron scores just a few less but averages more in almost every other category, kobe honestly doesnt belong in the discussion this year, he just gets thrown in because his name is a basically a trademark

Terrible statement considering he has led his team to the top record in the West and is in the top 3 in scoring. He also is in the top 3 in scoring in the 4th quarter and has done a heck of a job in terms of being a leader on both ends of the court. Kobe leads all shooting guards in rebounds and is one of the top rebounding guards in the league. He's definitely in the MVP discussion. Kobe's numbers aren't as high as they were 2 years ago, but that is because he has a better team and doesn't have to carry them the way he used to. All of that said, he's still an MVP candidate because he is playing great basketball and has his team competing at a high level every night.

michaelbt18
03-21-2009, 03:49 AM
wades been the best scorer this year, but not the MVP, scoring isnt everything, i admit wade is my favorite out of the three, but lebron scores just a few less but averages more in almost every other category, kobe honestly doesnt belong in the discussion this year, he just gets thrown in because his name is a basically a trademark

How dare you speak such blasphemy! Haven't you learned anything from the laker fans crawling all over this site? Kobe is the best that therer ever will be. He could beat Lebron one-on-one without even trying. JEEEZ!

lakerboy
03-21-2009, 05:30 AM
Hey I've got a question.

Does the MVP award come with any cash prizes or other incentives??

JordansBulls
03-21-2009, 09:36 AM
Here are the top 5 who have the most wins for there teams.

1. LeBron James-CLE 16.5
2. Chris Paul-NOH 14.5
3. Dwight Howard-ORL 12.1
4. Dwyane Wade-MIA 12.0
5. Pau Gasol-LAL 11.9

Kakaroach
03-21-2009, 10:11 AM
^^ :confused: What do those stats mean JB?

IrespectNumber3
03-21-2009, 12:50 PM
lmao ^...Lebron gets MVP unless something crazy happens but if they dont win the finals this year...It's not going to mean anything at all...IF you had a Baller of the year ago a player who just played great in late games or a Most exciting Player award its D-wade Easily

hotdogbun
03-21-2009, 02:02 PM
dwade should not win it cuz of his beastly nice stats cuz if its about stats then kobe shouldve won it in 2006 when he averaged 36 ppg

still1ballin
03-21-2009, 02:26 PM
Here are the top 5 who have the most wins for there teams.

1. LeBron James-CLE 16.5
2. Chris Paul-NOH 14.5
3. Dwight Howard-ORL 12.1
4. Dwyane Wade-MIA 12.0
5. Pau Gasol-LAL 11.9


What are you trying to conclude by bringing this stat out? That Gasol is more of a MVP candidate then Kobe?

hotdogbun
03-21-2009, 02:37 PM
Here are the top 5 who have the most wins for there teams.

1. LeBron James-CLE 16.5
2. Chris Paul-NOH 14.5
3. Dwight Howard-ORL 12.1
4. Dwyane Wade-MIA 12.0
5. Pau Gasol-LAL 11.9

what do you mean most wins for there teams?

JordansBulls
03-21-2009, 02:40 PM
^^ :confused: What do those stats mean JB?

A lot of people don't know what this means or what it is for, but here is an explanation.

A Win Share determines how much you are responsible for your team winning. It basically says who is the most important player on the team giving the production for your team to win.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html


James made team Win Shares directly proportional to team wins. In his system, a baseball team that wins 80 games will have exactly 240 Win Shares, a baseball team that wins 90 games will have exactly 270 Win Shares, etc. In my system, a basketball team that wins 50 games will have about 50 Win Shares, give or take.

James did not allow for the possibility of negative Win Shares. In his system, the fewest number of Win Shares a player can have is zero. In my system, a player can have negative Win Shares. I justify this by thinking about it in the following way: a player with negative Win Shares was so poor that he essentially took away wins that his teammates had generated.



So if a team wins 60 games, it spreads across the team to determine how much each player is reponsible for the team winning and thus each player gets a win share.


So let's take for example the Bulls.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2009.html

If you look at them you will see that in the ADVANCED section on basketball-reference and all the way to the right you will see WS (which stands for Win Shares), it shows who the leader is on the team and the impact they have on the teams wins.


These are your yearly Win Share leaders

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_yearly.html

2008-09 NBA LeBron James 16.52
2007-08 NBA Chris Paul 17.31
2006-07 NBA Dirk Nowitzki 15.91
2005-06 NBA Dirk Nowitzki 17.18
2004-05 NBA Dirk Nowitzki 15.90
2003-04 NBA Kevin Garnett 18.10
2002-03 NBA Tracy McGrady 16.48
2001-02 NBA Tim Duncan 17.68
2000-01 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 15.02
1999-00 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 18.70
1998-99 NBA Karl Malone 9.41
1997-98 NBA Karl Malone 16.15
1996-97 NBA Michael Jordan 18.27
1995-96 NBA Michael Jordan 20.27
1994-95 NBA David Robinson 17.78
1993-94 NBA David Robinson 18.94
1992-93 NBA Michael Jordan 16.48
1991-92 NBA Michael Jordan 17.31
1990-91 NBA Michael Jordan 19.84
1989-90 NBA Michael Jordan 18.68
1988-89 NBA Michael Jordan 19.08
1987-88 NBA Michael Jordan 20.35
1986-87 NBA Michael Jordan 16.05
1985-86 NBA Larry Bird* 15.67
1984-85 NBA Larry Bird* 15.59
1983-84 NBA Adrian Dantley* 15.11
1982-83 NBA Moses Malone* 15.04
1981-82 NBA Moses Malone* 14.86
1980-81 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 14.38
1979-80 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 14.98
1978-79 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 14.40
1977-78 NBA David Thompson* 12.91
1976-77 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 17.45
1975-76 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 17.32
ABA Julius Erving* 17.54
1974-75 NBA Bob McAdoo* 18.31
ABA Julius Erving* 17.62
1973-74 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 18.00
ABA Julius Erving* 16.87

hotdogbun
03-21-2009, 02:52 PM
that stat is crap and isnt needed.

Lakersfan2483
03-21-2009, 03:00 PM
that stat is crap and isnt needed.

:clap: Agreed. I actually watch the games rather than just look at stats...

still1ballin
03-21-2009, 03:06 PM
that stat is crap and isnt needed.

shhh!!! you can't say that! you might get an infraction for that!!!:rolleyes::p

still1ballin
03-21-2009, 03:12 PM
:clap: Agreed. I actually watch the games rather than just look at stats...

I think watching the players performance is #1 when determining the MVP, then comes the stats. Stats are good to look as well, but the most important stats, like PPG, APG, RPG, FG% ect.....not a win share stats? Never in my life have I heard in nba anaylst on ESPN talk about win shares when giving their opinion on the MVP. NEVER

superkegger
03-21-2009, 03:19 PM
It's not a dumb stat. It's a good way to get an idea of how responsible a player is for a team's success. (and what JB isn't telling you is that Kobe is 6th on the list at 10.9). It's not an end all stat, but taken into account with everything else, it's a nice indicator.

And also, your offensive win shares is largely linked to your offensive rating, which Gasol leads the league in. Which is in large part due to his role in the triangle, and the efficiency in which he fills it.

Besides, this pretty much just tells us what we already know, Kobe and Pau are the best duo in the game. It's a useful stat, don't discount it entirely.

superkegger
03-21-2009, 03:22 PM
I think watching the players performance is #1 when determining the MVP, then comes the stats. Stats are good to look as well, but the most important stats, like PPG, APG, RPG, FG% ect.....not a win share stats? Never in my life have I heard in nba anaylst on ESPN talk about win shares when giving their opinion on the MVP. NEVER

That's because you have guys like Tim Legler and Stephen A Smith breaking things down on ESPN. They're idiots. Do some more reading and you'll encounter people who actually understand baskeball and will talk about those kinds of things.

Brooke
03-21-2009, 03:27 PM
It's not a dumb stat. It's a good way to get an idea of how responsible a player is for a team's success. (and what JB isn't telling you is that Kobe is 6th on the list at 10.9). It's not an end all stat, but taken into account with everything else, it's a nice indicator.

And also, your offensive win shares is largely linked to your offensive rating, which Gasol leads the league in. Which is in large part due to his role in the triangle, and the efficiency in which he fills it.

Besides, this pretty much just tells us what we already know, Kobe and Pau are the best duo in the game. It's a useful stat, don't discount it entirely.

they are #1 scoring duo in the game ;)


That's because you have guys like Tim Legler and Stephen A Smith breaking things down on ESPN. They're idiots. Do some more reading and you'll encounter people who actually understand baskeball and will talk about those kinds of things.


Yeah I have learned to completely ignore the so called "analysts" on ESPN

JordansBulls
03-21-2009, 03:44 PM
:clap: Agreed. I actually watch the games rather than just look at stats...

Watching games is important as it should be, but on a message board it means nothing. So using stat indicators to support your opinion and other methods is what matters because as you can see, you aren't watching the game on PSD.

Lakersfan2483
03-21-2009, 03:45 PM
Top MVP Candidates as of right now are Lebron, Kobe, Howard, Duncan, Wade and Chris Paul. The top 3 guys are Lebron, Kobe and Howard based on how they have performed this year and their overall team's success. Lebron has his team in position to win the East and land the best record in the league, while Kobe is leading his team to the top record in the West and also has a chance to lead his team to the top record. Howard is playing the way an MVP should play also in terms of leading his team to one of the top records in the league.

still1ballin
03-21-2009, 03:47 PM
That's because you have guys like Tim Legler and Stephen A Smith breaking things down on ESPN. They're idiots. Do some more reading and you'll encounter people who actually understand baskeball and will talk about those kinds of things.

If they are idiots, then why are they the ones analyzing the players and games and getting paid for it? I guess every single NBA anaylst from PTI to around the horn to TNT to ESPN on ABC are all idiots because they don't talk about win shares right? Majority don't care about those type of specific stats IMO. They may be good stats, but the main stats on a player like I said its the PPG/APG/RPG and FG %.

Lakersfan2483
03-21-2009, 03:49 PM
Watching games is important as it should be, but on a message board it means nothing. So using stat indicators to support your opinion and other methods is what matters because as you can see, you aren't watching the game on PSD.

You can't just use win share arguments as the end all be all when determining who is a top MVP candidate.

JordansBulls
03-21-2009, 03:50 PM
If they are idiots, then why are they the ones analyzing the players and games and getting paid for it? I guess every single NBA anaylst from PTI to around the horn to TNT to ESPN on ABC are all idiots because they don't talk about win shares right? Majority don't care about those type of specific stats IMO. They may be good stats, but the main stats on a player like I said its the PPG/APG/RPG and FG %.

Just because they don't know about them don't mean they aren't important or valuable. If the stat was a stat that supported role players instead of superstars then you would have a point, but the fact is that stat has generally supported top 3 players in the league in any given year.
Most people don't know Physics, but it doesn't mean that the laws of physics aren't important because most can't explain it or don't understand how it works. Most people just use things they can readily see available and that they understand.

JordansBulls
03-21-2009, 03:51 PM
You can't just use win share arguments as the end all be all when determining who is a top MVP candidate.

Of course not, my point was that Gasol should be in the mix as well just like Pierce should have been as well with KG last year.

Lakersfan2483
03-21-2009, 03:57 PM
The main thing is that Lebron, Kobe, and Howard have their respective teams in position to compete for a title this year and have put up great numbers. All three of those guys get it done on both offense and defense. Obviously Wade is having a great year and I don't want to discredit him, but his team is not in contention for a title and aren't close to having a top record in the league, so it bumps him down on the list.

Lakersfan2483
03-21-2009, 04:01 PM
Of course not, my point was that Gasol should be in the mix as well just like Pierce should have been as well with KG last year.

Gasol has had a great year and is perfect in his role as the 2nd option. In terms of MVP consideration, he's at the bottom of the list behind guys like Lebron, Kobe, Howard, Duncan, Wade, CP3 and Billups. Pierce is also in the conversation towards the bottom in terms of how he has performed all year and kept the Celtics in contention without KG.

Brooke
03-21-2009, 04:02 PM
If they are idiots, then why are they the ones analyzing the players and games and getting paid for it? I guess every single NBA anaylst from PTI to around the horn to TNT to ESPN on ABC are all idiots because they don't talk about win shares right? Majority don't care about those type of specific stats IMO. They may be good stats, but the main stats on a player like I said its the PPG/APG/RPG and FG %.

they can analyze all they want, it doesnt mean they are right about everything

still1ballin
03-21-2009, 04:23 PM
Just because they don't know about them don't mean they aren't important or valuable. If the stat was a stat that supported role players instead of superstars then you would have a point, but the fact is that stat has generally supported top 3 players in the league in any given year.
Most people don't know Physics, but it doesn't mean that the laws of physics aren't important because most can't explain it or don't understand how it works. Most people just use things they can readily see available and that they understand.

I did not say that the stat is not valuable it is, but IMO not determining the MVP......there are way more important stats in determining MVP then win shares. Win shares is just a nice thing to look at, nothing more, nothing less IMO.

Kakaroach
03-21-2009, 04:24 PM
Top MVP Candidates as of right now are Lebron, Kobe, Howard, Duncan, Wade and Chris Paul. The top 3 guys are Lebron, Kobe and Howard based on how they have performed this year and their overall team's success. Lebron has his team in position to win the East and land the best record in the league, while Kobe is leading his team to the top record in the West and also has a chance to lead his team to the top record. Howard is playing the way an MVP should play also in terms of leading his team to one of the top records in the league. I'm open to suggestions, but this is simply ridiculous. There is no doubt that while he has had a great season, Dwight Howard is not more deserving of the MVP than Wade.

superkegger
03-21-2009, 04:32 PM
If they are idiots, then why are they the ones analyzing the players and games and getting paid for it? I guess every single NBA anaylst from PTI to around the horn to TNT to ESPN on ABC are all idiots because they don't talk about win shares right? Majority don't care about those type of specific stats IMO. They may be good stats, but the main stats on a player like I said its the PPG/APG/RPG and FG %.

You really think ESPN does a good job at breaking down the NBA...:eyebrow:

They're as much entertainment, if not more so, than they are analysts.

Lakersfan2483
03-21-2009, 04:33 PM
I'm open to suggestions, but this is simply ridiculous. There is no doubt that while he has had a great season, Dwight Howard is not more deserving of the MVP than Wade.

Howard leads the league in rebounding and block shots, he also has his team in contention for a title and his team has one of the top 5 records in the NBA. He also lost Jameer Nelson and has kept his team amongst the top teams in the league which definitely must account for something.

As far as Wade is concerned, if there were an award for best individual season, he would get it., but his team is not a contender and they are only 6 games over .500

Kakaroach
03-21-2009, 04:40 PM
Howard leads the league in rebounding and block shots, he also has his team in contention for a title and his team has one of the top 5 records in the NBA. He also lost Jameer Nelson and has kept his team amongst the top teams in the league which definitely must account for something.

As far as Wade is concerned, if there were an award for best individual season, he would get it., but his team is not a contender and they are only 6 games over .500 Howard is having a terrific season, but Wade has his team in playoff contention as well. Besides, Howard has such a greater supporting cast than Wade its ridiculous. He has Hedo, Lewis, they picked up Rafer Alston for Jameer Nelson, and he has taken his place nicely. Wade also leads the league in scoring, since you brought up stats.

Lakersfan2483
03-21-2009, 04:51 PM
Howard is having a terrific season, but Wade has his team in playoff contention as well. Besides, Howard has such a greater supporting cast than Wade its ridiculous. He has Hedo, Lewis, they picked up Rafer Alston for Jameer Nelson, and he has taken his place nicely. Wade also leads the league in scoring, since you brought up stats.

The MVP voting doesn't work like that, it's about both team success and overall impact on the game in terms of winning. As I mentioned earlier, Wade is having a great year and his team is in the playoffs, but they are barely over .500 and so he won't win an MVP. Howard is having a great year and has led his team to one of the top records in the NBA. So, is it fair to penalize Howard for having a better supporting cast and leading them to a top record? In my opinion, Howard does have the better cast, but it's not fair to penalize his success because he's still having an outstanding year and has his team in contention for a title.

*As I mentioned earlier, the MVP is not based solely on great 'individual' success, so in that sense Wade is not the MVP. His team is barely over .500 and would not make the playoffs in the West. Wade is playing great to keep his team in the hunt for the playoffs, but the fact is, his team is not good enough and are not winning enough to win the award.

Kenny
03-21-2009, 04:57 PM
Howard leads the league in rebounding and block shots, he also has his team in contention for a title and his team has one of the top 5 records in the NBA. He also lost Jameer Nelson and has kept his team amongst the top teams in the league which definitely must account for something.

As far as Wade is concerned, if there were an award for best individual season, he would get it., but his team is not a contender and they are only 6 games over .500

Lebrons been the best player this year not wade... I dont need the stats for that.. Lebron and Wade's stats are very similar, but from start to finish Lebron been the most consistent..

Best player in the 2nd half is wade though..

SwaggaIke
03-21-2009, 05:20 PM
Lebrons been the best player this year not wade... I dont need the stats for that.. Lebron and Wade's stats are very similar, but from start to finish Lebron been the most consistent..

Best player in the 2nd half is wade though..

How is that possible when Wade has been playing better ball than LeBron the entire season? LeBron's team is better and he's playing great ball so he's the MVP. Any other reason is off base. Wade has played the best of ANY INDIVIDUAL this year. Team success is the only thing holding him back from the trophy that signifies that.

Kakaroach
03-21-2009, 05:45 PM
The MVP voting doesn't work like that, it's about both team success and overall impact on the game in terms of winning. As I mentioned earlier, Wade is having a great year and his team is in the playoffs, but they are barely over .500 and so he won't win an MVP. Howard is having a great year and has led his team to one of the top records in the NBA. So, is it fair to penalize Howard for having a better supporting cast and leading them to a top record? In my opinion, Howard does have the better cast, but it's not fair to penalize his success because he's still having an outstanding year and has his team in contention for a title.

*As I mentioned earlier, the MVP is not based solely on great 'individual' success, so in that sense Wade is not the MVP. His team is barely over .500 and would not make the playoffs in the West. Wade is playing great to keep his team in the hunt for the playoffs, but the fact is, his team is not good enough and are not winning enough to win the award. I didn't say Wade was going to win the MVP. However, he certainly deserves it more than Howard. He has literally carried his team single-handedly with a bunch of scrubs while Howard has All-stars and Hedo. I can understand the LeBron argument, but not this Howard one.

nouveauAG
03-21-2009, 05:46 PM
How is that possible when Wade has been playing better ball than LeBron the entire season? LeBron's team is better and he's playing great ball so he's the MVP. Any other reason is off base. Wade has played the best of ANY INDIVIDUAL this year. Team success is the only thing holding him back from the trophy that signifies that.

While I can see you have a bias, I hope you look at things rationally. At the beginning of the year up until the all-star break, there were two clear cut MVP candidates. Kobe and LBJ. Everyone knew this, after the all-star and up until this point Wade has really stepped up and put up big numbers and has his team in contention.

I think it is a big stretch to say he has played the best out of everyone this year for the entire season.

nouveauAG
03-21-2009, 05:50 PM
I didn't say Wade was going to win the MVP. However, he certainly deserves it more than Howard. He has literally carried his team single-handedly with a bunch of scrubs while Howard has All-stars and Hedo. I can understand the LeBron argument, but not this Howard one.

I'm sorry to say that the MVP award doesn't work like that. No one who votes in the end cares whether you play with all-stars or high school players. The only thing that matters is stats and team performance.

Wade's team success is hampering him eventhough he has comparable numbers to the other candidates. For instance, just look at the eastern conference, if you have an MVP for the regular season. Could you really say Wade deserves it over LBJ seeing that Wade just barely may get the 8th spot where the Cavs are #1-#2 consistently all year?

Kakaroach
03-21-2009, 05:54 PM
I'm sorry to say that the MVP award doesn't work like that. No one who votes in the end cares whether you play with all-stars or high school players. The only thing that matters is stats and team performance.

Wade's team success is hampering him eventhough he has comparable numbers to the other candidates. For instance, just look at the eastern conference, if you have an MVP for the regular season. Could you really say Wade deserves it over LBJ seeing that Wade just barely may get the 8th spot where the Cavs are #1-#2 consistently all year? The Heat are in 5th place :rolleyes: Plus, I said I would understand if LeBron got it over Wade, but Howard?!

SwaggaIke
03-21-2009, 06:29 PM
While I can see you have a bias, I hope you look at things rationally. At the beginning of the year up until the all-star break, there were two clear cut MVP candidates. Kobe and LBJ. Everyone knew this, after the all-star and up until this point Wade has really stepped up and put up big numbers and has his team in contention.

I think it is a big stretch to say he has played the best out of everyone this year for the entire season.

There is no bias involved. If the Miami Heat were 50-13 Wade would be league MVP. He has done all things possible as an INDIVIDUAL to win the award. He's been leading the league in scoring the entire season, a block and 2 steals ALL SEASON, over 7 assists ALL SEASON, over 5 boards ALL SEASON, over 49 percent shooting ALL SEASON and he's even improved upon his 3 point shooting. Wade has been the best individual player on both ends of the floor this entire year. He isn't MVP because his team isn't where it needs to be and i'm fine w/ that. But as an individual...nobody has done as much as him this season. Wade has been playing like the best player in the world since the Olympic exhibition games.

Vinny642
03-21-2009, 06:31 PM
I dont see how Howard deserves it over Wade either... Howard had Jameers, and has R Lewis and Hedo, and Dwight is my second fav player.... imo right now

1. lebron
2. Wade
3. kobe
4. Cp
5. dwight

Vinny642
03-21-2009, 06:33 PM
Of course not, my point was that Gasol should be in the mix as well just like Pierce should have been as well with KG last year.

If Gasol is in MVP talks then that would have to lower kobe just like if Pierce were in the talks last year KG would go lower.

Bring The Heat
03-21-2009, 07:18 PM
There is no bias involved. If the Miami Heat were 50-13 Wade would be league MVP. He has done all things possible as an INDIVIDUAL to win the award. He's been leading the league in scoring the entire season, a block and 2 steals ALL SEASON, over 7 assists ALL SEASON, over 5 boards ALL SEASON, over 49 percent shooting ALL SEASON and he's even improved upon his 3 point shooting. Wade has been the best individual player on both ends of the floor this entire year. He isn't MVP because his team isn't where it needs to be and i'm fine w/ that. But as an individual...nobody has done as much as him this season. Wade has been playing like the best player in the world since the Olympic exhibition games.

good post

JordansBulls
03-21-2009, 08:12 PM
If Gasol is in MVP talks then that would have to lower kobe just like if Pierce were in the talks last year KG would go lower.

That's the point. With Gasol leading the team in Win Shares that in itself should drop Kobe down to like 4th if anything.

nouveauAG
03-21-2009, 08:49 PM
There is no bias involved. If the Miami Heat were 50-13 Wade would be league MVP. He has done all things possible as an INDIVIDUAL to win the award. He's been leading the league in scoring the entire season, a block and 2 steals ALL SEASON, over 7 assists ALL SEASON, over 5 boards ALL SEASON, over 49 percent shooting ALL SEASON and he's even improved upon his 3 point shooting. Wade has been the best individual player on both ends of the floor this entire year. He isn't MVP because his team isn't where it needs to be and i'm fine w/ that. But as an individual...nobody has done as much as him this season. Wade has been playing like the best player in the world since the Olympic exhibition games.

I don't dispute any of his numbers. I just feel that the other players have been more consistent over the entire season. Wade has had an explosion the second half of the season. If I remember correctly at the all star break he was NOT leading the league in scoring. But he was still third or second I believe which is nothing to sneeze at.

Just personally, I can't really say that NO ONE has done more than him this season. I still think that should be applied to LBJ. It seems as if he is a walking triple double these days, his team is contending for a championship, and he seems to have started his charge to officially take over the league from Kobe.