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NYstateofMinD
03-13-2009, 07:52 AM
I've been a fan of basketball since I was 6 watching Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing back in the 90's. Now I'm sick of this. I can't enjoy basketball anymore with all this marketing.

I can't enjoy it with all these selfish basketball players, Josh Smith recently arguing with his coach and Matt Barnes last night. You get payed millions yet you argue with your coach, or you demand trades.

Having league pass and being a fan of basketball, I watch alot of games and alot of games are decided by refs. A foul is a foul regardless of who it is, and a no call is the same no call you didn't call last play, be consistent.

I'm also sick of the MVP award just marketing players. Dirk and Steve Nash being MVPs a few years ago was just to achieve this "global monopoly" on basketball. None were even top 5 players and played no defense.

Another thing I'm sick of are plays like Ariza on Fernandez the other night, or Bynum messing up Gerald Wallace's lungs to prevent 2 points, or even Glen Davis's fould on Varejao. A player not only has to worry about getting injured during the game, they have to watch out they don't get wacked in the air. The reason things like this happen, is because there is no punishment. How are you supposed to protect a player? Are you going to wait for, god forbid, someone to have a career ending injury to prevent 2 points?

I don't want to seem like I'm just complaining, even though I am, but I want to ask, is anyone else getting bored of NBA basketball anymore? Have you been watching another league instead, ex. College Basketball, High School, European leagues?

BTownTeamsRKing
03-13-2009, 07:59 AM
i see your point man. i find myself watching more and more NCAA even tho my team is BC lol

i still love watching the Celtics, but outside of the Celtics games, i dont watch other games unless its playoffs or if D-Wade is playing.

id love to get rid of hard fouls, but thats physicality of basketbal played by grown men.

to add: i take it u were not thrilled w/ the shaq show in the all star game and co mvp crap

NYstateofMinD
03-13-2009, 08:20 AM
Shaq played good, but it was all marketing, the dancing was cool, co-mvp not so much. I love watching any game, it's just I hate it when the refs decide the games based on calls or no calls.

MoBASS
03-13-2009, 12:45 PM
I've been a fan of basketball since I was 6 watching Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing back in the 90's. Now I'm sick of this. I can't enjoy basketball anymore with all this marketing.

I can't enjoy it with all these selfish basketball players, Josh Smith recently arguing with his coach and Matt Barnes last night. You get payed millions yet you argue with your coach, or you demand trades.

Having league pass and being a fan of basketball, I watch alot of games and alot of games are decided by refs. A foul is a foul regardless of who it is, and a no call is the same no call you didn't call last play, be consistent.

I'm also sick of the MVP award just marketing players. Dirk and Steve Nash being MVPs a few years ago was just to achieve this "global monopoly" on basketball. None were even top 5 players and played no defense.

Another thing I'm sick of are plays like Ariza on Fernandez the other night, or Bynum messing up Gerald Wallace's lungs to prevent 2 points, or even Glen Davis's fould on Varejao. A player not only has to worry about getting injured during the game, they have to watch out they don't get wacked in the air. The reason things like this happen, is because there is no punishment. How are you supposed to protect a player? Are you going to wait for, god forbid, someone to have a career ending injury to prevent 2 points?

I don't want to seem like I'm just complaining, even though I am, but I want to ask, is anyone else getting bored of NBA basketball anymore? Have you been watching another league instead, ex. College Basketball, High School, European leagues?

If you were a fan of basketball in the 90s you would see these are normal plays that happen in the heat of the moment. On top of that Ariza was going for the ball.

Basketball in the 80s and 90s was WAR.

superkegger
03-13-2009, 12:51 PM
If you were a fan of basketball in the 90s you would see these are normal plays that happen in the heat of the moment. On top of that Ariza was going for the ball.

Basketball in the 80s and 90s was WAR.

That's what I was thinking. If you are complaining about the changes to the game, one would think that you'd think that those types of fouls being called flagrant 2's is bs. It's almost cliche at this point, but the McHale clothesline of rambis, that was simply a foul. No flagrant or anything,just a 2 shot foul.

Also, coaches and players have always argued. This isn't the first decade in which a player has demanded a trade. I think we all too often like to romanticize the state of basketball from 10-15 years ago and beyond, but I think it's a lot of times just that, remembering things to be better than they were.

DrDEADalready
03-13-2009, 12:54 PM
I'm a NBA fan regardless. Yeah I see your point and pisses me off too. But I'm not going to stop watching because of it.

fresh prince
03-13-2009, 01:14 PM
That's what I was thinking. If you are complaining about the changes to the game, one would think that you'd think that those types of fouls being called flagrant 2's is bs. It's almost cliche at this point, but the McHale clothesline of rambis, that was simply a foul. No flagrant or anything,just a 2 shot foul.

Also, coaches and players have always argued. This isn't the first decade in which a player has demanded a trade. I think we all too often like to romanticize the state of basketball from 10-15 years ago and beyond, but I think it's a lot of times just that, remembering things to be better than they were.

For sure agreed 100% The game is softer now..The ARIZA play sure as hell was not dirty especially in comparison to Mchale Clothslining Rambis

Other than the softness of the game and the weak calls that are now called fouls I think the game itself is in a better place. The game is global which has the talent Level at an all time high.

king4day
03-13-2009, 01:18 PM
Shaq played good, but it was all marketing, the dancing was cool, co-mvp not so much. I love watching any game, it's just I hate it when the refs decide the games based on calls or no calls.

I agree with most of what you said.
I won't argue whether Nash or Dirk deserved MVP, but they both were most certainly in the top 5.

I fell asleep right after the all star game and was shocked to hear Shaq won co-mvp.
The reason also coulda been because he played so little minutes and put up impressive numbers.
Regardless, the NBA was going to give it to them even if neither guy played.

Hellcrooner
03-13-2009, 01:44 PM
Im bored of Star Calls and Star system and the ton of media adds and merchandising.

Its really pathetic, you are no one until you appear in Tv, im sure Pau Gasol will get much more atention after appearing in Numb3ers than what he had until now, thats pathetic.

Also hate how people only watchs the scoreline to determine a players value.


about hard game i actually MISS hard game and you being a 90s fan and KNICKS fan shouldnt be moaning about it, man Starks, Mason and Oakley that was a man grinding machine!!!!!!.


anyway i still watch nba because i like the game, and some parts of the SHOW and the Glamour, of course when i want to watch REAL Basket with fundamentals and actual team game i wathc Euroleague, or the "boring" Spurs.

Hellcrooner
03-13-2009, 01:47 PM
Of Course i disagree with the Nash and Dirk Comment, man they where great those seasons, care to watch suns record year befor nash and with nash?

If anithing, foreigners get undervalued by american fans and media....

Want an Example?

go check Marc Gasols and Lopezs stats line, specifically make it the 48 mpg stats line.

They are almost the SAME stat line(with the particular thing that mark takes way less shots to score the same), now go check media about how Marc is just a "decent nba starter" and Lopez is Moses Malones second coming...

Nicolas Batum is having an AWESOME rookie season and no one takes him in consideration for the top 10 rookies .

Dragic and Bayless are sucking in a similar way, yet one of them is a sheer bust and the other is a gem waiting to happen.


Any word about Roko Ukic ?


etc etc

DerekRE_3
03-13-2009, 02:01 PM
Of Course i disagree with the Nash and Dirk Comment, man they where great those seasons, care to watch suns record year befor nash and with nash?

If anithing, foreigners get undervalued by american fans and media....

Want an Example?

go check Marc Gasols and Lopezs stats line, specifically make it the 48 mpg stats line.

They are almost the SAME stat line(with the particular thing that mark takes way less shots to score the same), now go check media about how Marc is just a "decent nba starter" and Lopez is Moses Malones second coming...

Nicolas Batum is having an AWESOME rookie season and no one takes him in consideration for the top 10 rookies .

Dragic and Bayless are sucking in a similar way, yet one of them is a sheer bust and the other is a gem waiting to happen.


Any word about Roko Ukic ?


etc etc

I think that's more of a testament to how insane this rookie draft class is turning out to be.

Hoopsadvocate
03-13-2009, 02:16 PM
I've been a fan of basketball since I was 6 watching Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing back in the 90's. Now I'm sick of this. I can't enjoy basketball anymore with all this marketing.

I can't enjoy it with all these selfish basketball players, Josh Smith recently arguing with his coach and Matt Barnes last night. You get payed millions yet you argue with your coach, or you demand trades.

Having league pass and being a fan of basketball, I watch alot of games and alot of games are decided by refs. A foul is a foul regardless of who it is, and a no call is the same no call you didn't call last play, be consistent.

I'm also sick of the MVP award just marketing players. Dirk and Steve Nash being MVPs a few years ago was just to achieve this "global monopoly" on basketball. None were even top 5 players and played no defense.

Another thing I'm sick of are plays like Ariza on Fernandez the other night, or Bynum messing up Gerald Wallace's lungs to prevent 2 points, or even Glen Davis's fould on Varejao. A player not only has to worry about getting injured during the game, they have to watch out they don't get wacked in the air. The reason things like this happen, is because there is no punishment. How are you supposed to protect a player? Are you going to wait for, god forbid, someone to have a career ending injury to prevent 2 points?

I don't want to seem like I'm just complaining, even though I am, but I want to ask, is anyone else getting bored of NBA basketball anymore? Have you been watching another league instead, ex. College Basketball, High School, European leagues?

Everything you mentioned is b/s why :

1. If you watched basketball back then you would know this isnt anything new. Josh smith argues with his coach ok??? So did great like Karl Malone and John Stockton. And just like Josh Smith there coach benched them when they argued.

2. OMG there were limitless games decided by refs in the before today its not even funny ex. Bill Laimbeer vs. the Lakers in the 1987-88 NBA Finals he barley touched the guy and got called for the foul based on his rep.

3. Marketing players?? um of course the top players are gonna be marketable. Now Dirk was on the best record team when he won the MVP which is like the #1 criteria for getting the trophy so that was why he got it along with many other monster stats he put up. Nash was also on a very good team and had monster stats and he made his team mates better again deserving of MVP. Many people backed those guys for winning too because there were deserving not because they were foreign and cold be marketed for global NBA reasons. get real.

4.This last one i couldnt believe especially since you said you watched in the 90's. Players were so aggresive and made so many hard fouls back then it wasnt even funny. So many legends have gone on to say todays game is softer than the past were people would foul so much harder and get away with it.

As far as the are you getting bored of NBA basketball. Me personally no i think this time more than anything is the time to watch cause its the closest thing we will get to the Magic,Bird,Jordan,Stockton,Olaquwuan era with Lebron,Kobe,Wade,CP3,DHoward all playing close to their prime like its compared era. But thats just me.

NoSense
03-13-2009, 02:32 PM
Couldn't agree more. Seems like NBA players are Wall Street traders.

harlequin018
03-13-2009, 03:04 PM
I can understand where your complaints are coming from, but you're making the players out to be idols. NBA players are people too, stricken with many flaws and faults. Its the condition of their talent alone that they are given plentiful media exposure but how they react is far from guaranteed. Most are just kids with a special ability that earns them millions of dollars and hours of TV time.

Speaking of the cash, this is why so many hard fouls are committed. If you could make $10 million a year playing a game, you'd drop everything else you were doing to take part. Thats the mindset of every kid in America, and many of them have solid talent. Every bottom-rung NBA player can be replaced if they don't perform to the ever-increasing standard. Trevor Ariza has to contest every shot, clog every lane, hit every FT, etc etc because he knows there is no loyalty in a business. A lot of people want his money and are probably more talented. He needs to show his team only HE is willing to work that hard for it.

The refereeing has been questionable since the beginning of time. Unless you put in instant replay (impossible, completely kills the flow of the game) the very human refs are going to make very human calls. Getting upset over something inevitable is frustrating, but ultimately fruitless. There will be a game at some point that your team will win, when they should have lost, because of a bad call.

I have essentially explained why everything you have issue with can't be resolved. But I do agree with a lot of what you say (except Nash and Dirk earned their MVPs, period). Every time I hear LeBron say "our team was down so I had to bring us back" I change the channel. Or when LeBron wanted to break Kobe's day-old record for points at MSG, I gagged. The little guys playing so hard that they accidentally commit hard fouls is one thing, but the superstars that are so full of themselves that they can't show a little humility is something else. Once they start to believe they're superhuman is when that attitude starts to transcend outside of the court. Then "no, I won't have sex with you Kobe Bryant" loses all meaning.

JabberJaw
03-13-2009, 03:27 PM
I havent read anyones response to this, but I imagine it will be similar to mine. If you grew up watching Jordan and Bird play, then how can you complain about "star calls" when the Jordan rules were in full effect. Stars have gotten the calls way before Jordan and Bird, so things havent changed in that aspect. Also, the flagrant fouls of today were just hard fouls of the earlier era of bball. The example of Ariza knocking Rudy off balance WHILE GOING FOR THE BALL is a poor example. Also, Bynums hit on Geralds ribs was just hard contact...its not like he focused on the hit...its called contact. The results were sad, and nobody wants them to happen, but it happens. Ever watch Lambier and the Detroit Bad Boys??? Apparently not, because those were real flagrant fouls.
I will agree with you on the case of Dirk and Nash getting MVP's to globalize the game, but it happens. There are people screwed out of MVPs every year. Shaq should have had several, same as Kobe, Duncan could have more, etc.... It happens.
Overall, the game has changed to softer due to officials having to react to how violent the result of a foul is, rather than actually taking a realistic approach. Stars will always get calls. And the game is now a global game...it's impossible to please everyone. Whether Lebron, Kobe or D.Wade gets the MVP this year, somebody is going to have a valid argument as to why they should have gotten MVP. Its one of those awards that could go to a number of people every year. Thats why the only thing that matters is championships....period