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View Full Version : Frenchy... Start em or Sit em?



Joe Smoe
03-10-2009, 02:03 PM
Spring training of course is a time of work for a player to rebuild skills and to work on team building, but it is also a time to make changes to shape the roster. All winter long I have read many articles on Frenchy, and the changes he has made to become a better player. I also see many calling him a sleeper favorite. While as a right fielder many have never had issues with his glove work, but when he approaches the plate one must begin to ask themselves, is this the best the Braves can do?

Please do not get me wrong, as I have already stated.. it is spring training so stats can be misleading.... but a average of .111 for this period of spring training leaves me wondering if he is at all improved at the bat. Is he done? Does he need more time? or do you see the needed changes in him to have confidence that he is on the mend?

2008 STATS
BA HR RBI OBP SLG
.239 11 71 .294 .359

NickSC07
03-10-2009, 03:21 PM
His average is up to a whopping .150 so far today! I hope he gets it together because he essential for this team to win but I voted 'He is done!' just because I have never really cared for him too much.

dbroncs-abraves
03-10-2009, 03:26 PM
His average is up to a whopping .150 so far today! I hope he gets it together because he essential for this team to win but I voted 'He is done!' just because I have never really cared for him too much.

he has improved this spring and he OBP is much better as he is taking a lot more walks i think he will bounce back with a decent year

BRAVE KID
03-10-2009, 05:38 PM
this is tough for me to comment on b/c I haven't been able to see how franky approaches his at-bats, what type of pitches does he swing at, how many pitches is he taking each at-bat..etc

but just looking at the stats..and yes the majority is ugly..he has 4 walks and 0 K's, those 4 walks lead the team. So yes while he is still having trouble getting base hits, at least he is not whiffing like a lost bafoon. If you keep making contact you are bound to get hits. Now again I haven't been able to see him approach his at-bats so I may have a completely different opinion, but as of now it is good to see he has more walks than K's.

njbravefan
03-10-2009, 08:10 PM
he'll do fine. But face it, even the Francoeur from last season is better than any of our alternatives

KingsFiend
03-10-2009, 11:49 PM
Here's the thing. It's spring training. In a normal game he is seeing the plate 4-5 times a game. In spring trainging he's usually getting 2 ABs. So for most players in Spring Training, either their BA is really low or really high. So you can't really take BA for anything. The walks on the other hand deffinatly do show improvment, but your not going to be able to really see what French can do until the Season starts, so lets just stop with the "keep him or get rid of him" crap until were atleast a 1/4 of the way into the season. Just give him a chance.

iamaj
03-11-2009, 06:27 AM
Frenchy deserves a chance to redeem himself, and it's not as if we're stocked with better options and holding someone back by giving him that chance.

Since he looks to be taking walks, I see that as progress. Once Chipper comes back to keep a watchful eye on him, I'm sure the hits will start coming and more than that .239 clip from last year.

baseballislife7
03-11-2009, 08:33 AM
I say he will do fine. He drew another walk yesterday and that is four in 20 Of AB's. Chipper said it would take Frenchy awhile and we should all be patient. I think he'll start hitting better real soon b/c attention has to be off of him and onto how well our pitching has been. Prado isn't hitting to well either and he is a .300 hitter. I mean are we going to get rid of Chipper just b/c he is like 0 for, w/lots of k's in the WBC?

jmtapia
03-11-2009, 05:27 PM
way to early to tell....but regardless of what we think he will be our Starting RF come opening day...

atl_braves_fan
03-11-2009, 06:20 PM
you have to start him -- he is the only player on the Braves that even has the potential to hit 30 homers (however unlikely that is)

rtgthree
03-11-2009, 06:27 PM
I'm still going back and forth on this. I think the organization has to stick with him for another year, but that also doesn't mean we have to waste major-league plate appearances on him. Send him to Triple-A, ignore his inevitable pouting and see what happens. Play Garret Anderson in right (left and right are equally difficult defensively), and that opens up left for a platoon of Diaz and Brandon Jones, both of whom are impressing this spring.

It won't happen, but if this team take itself seriously as a contender, it can't afford to keep playing the "potential" card with Jeff Francoeur.

thomass
03-11-2009, 08:18 PM
honestly i think we would be better with heyward starting than jeff. But it is good to see him taking some pitches, even though his avg. is low. If i was the hitting coach, i would honestly tell jeff not to swing at any pitches the rest of spring training. Just look at the pitches and process which balls are strikes and which ones are not.

Coach100
03-11-2009, 10:04 PM
RTG, I am slightly confused. The "potential" card applies to Frenchy, but not Diaz/BJ in LF? I mean, BJ has proven nothing at the major league level, at least Frenchy has (even if incosistantly). And Garrett probably isn't reliable enough physically to start full time in RF alone. But Garrett/Diaz makes a pretty predictable platoon, at least more so than Diaz/Jones.

I think, if the Braves want to be serious about making a playoff run, they have to put Frenchy in the line-up, just maybe not in the 4 hole. If he hits for low average (.265) and high HRs (30+) like 3 years ago, he can hit in the middle. If he hits for high average (.290+) and low homers (15ish), he can move down to like 7th. If he produces like last year, than you explore other options. But I think in 2006 and 2007 he was at least as good, if not better, a player than Anderson would be in RF. And Frenchy in RF leaves Anderson to platoon in LF, which takes the uncertainty of BJ out of the picture.

And Heyward is ready. He has a low average, a bunch of K's, and no experience against pitchers at the major league level.

The only way I see the Braves not having Frenchy start in RF is if he is injured or the trade him along with some excess pitching to get a power hitting RF/LF.

rtgthree
03-11-2009, 11:35 PM
Coach, in my mind Francoeur is more risky than Brandon Jones. To me, Jones is what he is; protected from southpaws, he will give you a mid- to high-700s OPS. Though he lacks a standout skill, he doesn't have any massive fatal flaws either. I don't see a whole lot of risk for a Frenchy-2008-style collapse. Just my opinion.

Francoeur has proven very little to me at the major-league level, aside from an obvious volatilty and a complete lack of patience. Does he have talent? Obviously, but it has translated poorly. Thirty homers means nothing to me when your OBP is .293. Given his long history of poor performance, I think he ought to have to win a job, not be handed one. Jones is in the same boat, and right now Jones is winning the battle.

A couple other notes: first, don't kid yourself that Cox is going to platoon Anderson and Diaz. Garret is going to play pretty much full-time anyway as long as he's healthy. Removing Frenchy from the picture actually buys back lots of playing time for Diaz. Right field is no more taxing for Anderson than left. Second, I just don't share your conception of Francoeur's past value; in 2007 he was merely bad after being just this side of horrific in 2006. There us potential, but mostly there's waste, and it's time the organization put it's foot down and made him rightfully earn his at-bats.

jmtapia
03-12-2009, 01:18 AM
^^^ I see what your saying but 1. Frenchy will be our everyday RF 2. Id rather go with Frenchy then i would with BJ.

Frenchy hasnt been doing great this ST but he has showed that he could be more patient and he hasnt struck out once this ST. With just 22 AB to his favor i think these discussion are pretty immature. Lets wait till the end of the 1st full month and then we could start considering benching Frenchy.

baseballislife7
03-12-2009, 09:48 AM
Two hits yesterday, avg up to .227 and OBP .321. Chipper said it would take awhile, as I keep saying, I look for Frenchy to start busting out.

KidinRiot
03-12-2009, 12:51 PM
I think he can turn it around. He hasn't struck out so far and has walked 4 times in 20something Abs. I read on another message board that Rudy Jarmillo (Rangers hitting coach) helped him out with his stance over the winter, supposedly he's the best in the game as far as hitting coaches go. He's making contact, taking walks, and is putting the ball in play. It's still too early to tell but the signs so far have been positive. Same thing with Andruw who is also working with Jarmillo, he's turning it around too and hitting the cover off the ball. Give it some time, Andruw had an atrocious spring start and he's looking fine already.

Joe Smoe
03-12-2009, 02:03 PM
Yeah Frenchy had a great day yesterday, and I strongly hope he can become something more then just another SI curse. However the reason I made this post, is I feel at the moment, RF is the weakest spot in the hitting line up (just my opinion). I knew I would get flammed for making this post and poll as he has so many fans. However with so much riding on Frenchy this year I simply agree that Frenchy should have to proove himself above other options. I myself dont want to hear potential... I want to see it. If he worked all off-season to regain his hitting, then it should be no problem hitting off of prospects.

Further, referring Frenchy to AJ's recovery... it kind of scares me.

jmtapia
03-12-2009, 02:52 PM
^^^IMO CF looks to be our weakest spot unless we start Schafer.... to early to count out Frenchy and if its not then ill let you judge a player based on 22 ST ABs...be my guest. Diaz looks solid and Anderson should return and we know what to expect from him.

That being said Blanco or/and Anderson wont come close to be league average in terms of offense and maybe not even defense. Schafer has been doing everything this ST hitting, defending and stealing bases....he looks all but ready to me.

rtgthree
03-13-2009, 03:13 PM
^^^IMO CF looks to be our weakest spot unless we start Schafer.... to early to count out Frenchy and if its not then ill let you judge a player based on 22 ST ABs...be my guest. Diaz looks solid and Anderson should return and we know what to expect from him.

That being said Blanco or/and Anderson wont come close to be league average in terms of offense and maybe not even defense. Schafer has been doing everything this ST hitting, defending and stealing bases....he looks all but ready to me.

It's definitely too early to count out Francoeur. I voted "too early to tell." That's not my issue with him. I take issue with the fact that right field seems to be his job to lose. I just don't understand what he's done to earn that job; I think he ought to be on equal footing with someone like Brandon Jones or Jordan Schafer, having to fight to make the roster. What is it that's getting Francoeur an automatic free pass?

(In a lot of ways, Josh Anderson's in the same boat, having been handed a job that he's really done nothing to earn. The fact that he's out of options does nothing for me.)

GLASSMAN
03-13-2009, 03:45 PM
It's definitely too early to count out Francoeur. I voted "too early to tell." That's not my issue with him. I take issue with the fact that right field seems to be his job to lose. I just don't understand what he's done to earn that job; I think he ought to be on equal footing with someone like Brandon Jones or Jordan Schafer, having to fight to make the roster. What is it that's getting Francoeur an automatic free pass?

(In a lot of ways, Josh Anderson's in the same boat, having been handed a job that he's really done nothing to earn. The fact that he's out of options does nothing for me.)

In short, nothing. Unless I'm missing something, the whole idea behind spring training is to allow all comers to prove their worth. With our performance last season, logic says there is room for improvement in the majority of our line up. Either perform or move over and make room for greater talent. By eliminating the bias, the competition should be greater.

That said, tie goes to the runner. That would be the only scenario where Frenchy may have a slight advantage.

rtgthree
03-13-2009, 05:20 PM
Unless I'm missing something, the whole idea behind spring training is to allow all comers to prove their worth.

What you're missing is that this isn't how the Braves are running their camp. It's how they SHOULD be running it, but somehow Francoeur and Josh Anderson are the "favorites" to win their jobs, for no apparent reason. So what I'm advocating is that the Braves get rid of the "bias" you mention. Right now, the Braves are clearly "biased" toward Francoeur, since he's going to play right field regardless of how his spring training goes, and I just don't agree with that.

GLASSMAN
03-13-2009, 05:49 PM
Maybe it's me but when I go to the Braves web site I invariably see a headline taunting Francouers latest activities. He has become a darling of those who dictate such coverage and I suspect that may have some bearing as to how he is treated throughout the organization right down to the field general. You have wisely used two words which are slowly being demonized through out our culture under the guise of being more fair and less hurtful to those who may not be able to handle the opposite of winning and/or earning their way. This watering down of competition will ultimately affect our ability to dominate our league if it is allowed to flourish. Forgive my rant but I believe this line of thinking is at the root of the problem

rtgthree
03-14-2009, 12:50 AM
Maybe it's me but when I go to the Braves web site I invariably see a headline taunting Francouers latest activities. He has become a darling of those who dictate such coverage and I suspect that may have some bearing as to how he is treated throughout the organization right down to the field general. You have wisely used two words which are slowly being demonized through out our culture under the guise of being more fair and less hurtful to those who may not be able to handle the opposite of winning and/or earning their way. This watering down of competition will ultimately affect our ability to dominate our league if it is allowed to flourish. Forgive my rant but I believe this line of thinking is at the root of the problem

I definitely agree on the whole culture shift surrounding "winning" or "earning." Well put. However, I disagree some on Francoeur. Those official site headlines you see are pretty much team propaganda, since MLB has full editorial control over its affiliated sites. I think all those puff pieces are the team's attempts to get the fan base to believe in the guy they have committed to. Rather than the media trickling down to the field decisions, I think you're seeing the team's decisions automatically defended in the media.

What I yet fail to understand is why the organization remains so blindly committed to its erstwhile right fielder.

BravoFan3736
03-14-2009, 07:13 AM
I definitely agree on the whole culture shift surrounding "winning" or "earning." Well put. However, I disagree some on Francoeur. Those official site headlines you see are pretty much team propaganda, since MLB has full editorial control over its affiliated sites. I think all those puff pieces are the team's attempts to get the fan base to believe in the guy they have committed to. Rather than the media trickling down to the field decisions, I think you're seeing the team's decisions automatically defended in the media.

What I yet fail to understand is why the organization remains so blindly committed to its erstwhile right fielder.

I truely believe that the Braves are GIVING Frenchy one last opportunity to sink or swim in 09' till they either Trade him next offseason or Replace him with someone else during the season if he fails. It is clear to me that Frenchy will be in RF on opening day regardless what happens in ST the rest of the way. Do I like what he has done do far? Of course, but it's ST and I could list tons of guys that have hit well in ST but never translated to regular season play.

2008
---------
Gregor Blanco hit .360 in 25 at bats
Jeff Francoeur hit .314 in 35 at bats
Joe Borchard hi .317 in 32 at bats
Josh Anderson hit .306 in 36 at bats

2007
-------------
DClark hit .448 in 29 at bats. I dont even know who this is or what his first name is..
Ryan Langerhans hit .370 in 46 at bats
Pete Orr hit .342 in 38 at bats

2006
--------------
James Jurries hit .431 in 51 at bats and probably now works at wal mart.
Wilson Betemit hit .425 in 40 at bats
Brian Jordan hit .362 in 47 at bats

So yes there is a big differance in Winning and Earning the position but the FO is hoping that talent and hard work from Frenchy will have a pay off sometime this season. Reality is that this team is depending on Frenchy to get them into contention for the playoffs and I know that sounds ridiculous but if we get another 08' performance from Frenchy we probably will just miss the playoffs. The Braves and Chipper know this and trying to give him the confidence that they believe in Frenchy in hopes that he turns it around and full fills his potential with his talent.

We will see

Frenchy or Bust in 09'

hawksd911
03-14-2009, 07:47 AM
what ever happend to James Jurries last time i heard of him he used Roids

dbroncs-abraves
03-14-2009, 02:43 PM
Francoeur went 2-2 today and his BA is now up to .333

jmtapia
03-14-2009, 03:08 PM
Also in evaluating Frenchy we have to take his defense contribution into consideration. Last year he had that nagging foot injury which held him back significantly. However, the 3 years before that his defense awarded him with UZRs of:

2005: 12.9
2006: 6.7
2007: 18.5
2008: -4.0

Look for Frenchy to bounce back on defense, with his foot feeling a lot better. Sometimes we focus on his bat a lot and dont consider him as a total player. In 2006 where he struggled at the plate his defense was still good enough to make him a player that was valued at around $4 Million.

Just a thought.