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View Full Version : Will there be a battle at short?



stanpapi
03-09-2009, 02:57 PM
Everett is hitting .125, Santiago .500. It's way too early, but could there be a battle for this job? I mean, I know it's not like the Tigers to let their players fight for jobs, but if this continues, could they allow for a fight for this job? Santiago hit much better last year, and I trust his D fully. I never understood signing Everett when we had Santiago anyway. Same type of player, only Everett's been hurt.

mkool65
03-09-2009, 03:57 PM
Santiago was really solid at the end of last year to. I definately want to see him get a shot at the starting position.

Epic89
03-09-2009, 04:41 PM
Everett is hitting .125, Santiago .500. It's way too early, but could there be a battle for this job? I mean, I know it's not like the Tigers to let their players fight for jobs, but if this continues, could they allow for a fight for this job? Santiago hit much better last year, and I trust his D fully. I never understood signing Everett when we had Santiago anyway. Same type of player, only Everett's been hurt.

Same type of player, except Everett sucks.

mark1125
03-09-2009, 05:26 PM
I have been all for Santiago getting a fair shot at starting. I think his D is just as good. He hits better and runs better. If Santiago continues to kick Everett's ***, then give him the job. I am not sure how flexible Everett is in the field, but if he suqaks or stinks, he is only making a million. Dump him. I am sure there will be a servicable utility player available at the end of team's camps.

I think it was a shame that Santiago didn't get a shot to start so far. He has been pegged as a utility player.

hoog
03-10-2009, 10:36 AM
Everett's glove is starting to match his bat now too. I thought this signing was horrible when we did it and he has not changed my mind yet. I'd rather see a young guy back up Santiago than Everett even see the roster.....EVER!

stanpapi
03-10-2009, 12:19 PM
...It's just not like DD to admit his mistakes. And I never liked this signing either. It just seemed like we were getting a Santiago-type player with less upside (ie. Everett has been hurt a fair bit).

smarkow
03-10-2009, 05:59 PM
as far as I can tell, Everett will be the starting SS and will get most of the starts during the year, unless an injury occurs. Santiago will give him a rest, as well as Polanco at second. Unfortunately, DD and Leyland think he's better in that role.

Much like Thames is not really a starting outfielder, but a guy you can put in there every so often for a few games while he's hot.

stanpapi
03-10-2009, 11:15 PM
...Everett is an improvement on what we already have.

sweetlou1
03-11-2009, 12:06 PM
Everett is not an improvment. Santiago is solid on defense and has a way better bat. He hit well last year and hes hitting well so far this year and Santiago and Inge is way a way better left side than what we started with last year. With Everett and Inge we could have our left side batting .200 the entire year.

Detroit70
03-12-2009, 08:20 AM
Give Santiago a chance! He has earned it. We all know he is better in all aspects of the game.

Lionsforlife
03-12-2009, 08:44 AM
I really think that SS will be mostly a platoon situation. I agree that maybe Santiago should get the chance to be the main starter, but at the same time, throughout his career he has proven that he is at his best as a sub. When he has started for an entire year, his hitting was way down. In the sub role, he usually hits near .300.

I guess I am okay with a subpar hitting SS for part of the season (when Everett plays), while the other part (when Santiago plays) we actually get decent offense rather than subpar hitting at that position the whole year (which I feel would happen whether Santiago or Everett was the main starter.)

pistons.fan.11
03-12-2009, 03:01 PM
Give Santiago a chance! He has earned it. We all know he is better in all aspects of the game.

I agree. 100%.
Everett was a bad signing. Through this season, he will continue to hit sub-par, but his fielding will be solid.

In all honesty, I think Santiago deserves the starting job, but he'll end up splitting the time evenly with Everett.

drewstantontime
03-12-2009, 08:15 PM
Everett is hitting .125, Santiago .500. It's way too early, but could there be a battle for this job? I mean, I know it's not like the Tigers to let their players fight for jobs, but if this continues, could they allow for a fight for this job? Santiago hit much better last year, and I trust his D fully. I never understood signing Everett when we had Santiago anyway. Same type of player, only Everett's been hurt.

Will there be? NO. Should there be? Yes. Leyland keeps referring to Santiago as a great" backup". However, Leyland does say that there will be alot of split time between the 2 at shortstop and I believe that. If Everett starts out slow and really doesnt give much then I think we see Santiago quite a bit. Leyland doesnt want to lose his job and needs results this season.

dddtfan
03-13-2009, 10:21 AM
Leyland is good about working days off in for the regulars, which likely means that Santiago will spell Polanco, as well as Everett and get plenty of ABs this season, and Santiago's numbers were not as good as the season wore on, as he was earlier in the year. Santiago will be a well used backup this year and nothing more. He isn't exactly a spring chicken himself and has consistently shown that he wears down as it gets deeper into the season.

Inge and his 6 million dollar salary are going to be in the lineup somewhere, it may as well be at 3B where his defensive abilities will be maximized, with the hitting being sacrificed with Everett (and in reality, the bat Everett is replacing in the lineup is Rent's, which wasn't what anybody could call spectacular either) and his defensive ability, along with Inge's will see a lot fewer ground balls getting through an infield that looked quite porous last year with Rent and Guillen. That defensive improvement takes pressure off pitchers who now don't have to be as "perfect" on every pitch and will ultimately improve our pitching some. This Everett/Inge combo is far from the disaster that a lot of people make this out to be.

mark1125
03-13-2009, 02:00 PM
Leyland is good about working days off in for the regulars, which likely means that Santiago will spell Polanco, as well as Everett and get plenty of ABs this season, and Santiago's numbers were not as good as the season wore on, as he was earlier in the year. Santiago will be a well used backup this year and nothing more. He isn't exactly a spring chicken himself and has consistently shown that he wears down as it gets deeper into the season.

Inge and his 6 million dollar salary are going to be in the lineup somewhere, it may as well be at 3B where his defensive abilities will be maximized, with the hitting being sacrificed with Everett (and in reality, the bat Everett is replacing in the lineup is Rent's, which wasn't what anybody could call spectacular either) and his defensive ability, along with Inge's will see a lot fewer ground balls getting through an infield that looked quite porous last year with Rent and Guillen. That defensive improvement takes pressure off pitchers who now don't have to be as "perfect" on every pitch and will ultimately improve our pitching some. This Everett/Inge combo is far from the disaster that a lot of people make this out to be.

Fair enough and I agree to a certain extent. My thought on Everett is that if he can hit .230ish, we can live with that. I think may people fear (rightfull so) that A) He will not stay healthy and B) He will struglle to hit at or near the mendoza line. His defense is stellar, but some have claimed injuries and age have lessened that ability. I haven't seen enough to judge for myself, but something to consider. .230 (even .225) can be tolerated if he is a vacuum at SS. If he hits .200 and is in and out for injuries, then I think he is expendable.

I am sure that a servicable util IF will fall out of someones camp. If Everett looks horrendous, then make Santiago a starter and get a usable util IF to spell him 1-2 times a week. I know Estaban German was just picked up. Not saying he would be a great fit, but just saying that there are useful players that will become available for cheap.

give Everett every chance to earn a spot, but he needs to step it up a notch if he wants a job.

Sheffies Chef
03-13-2009, 09:32 PM
Fair enough and I agree to a certain extent. My thought on Everett is that if he can hit .230ish, we can live with that. I think may people fear (rightfull so) that A) He will not stay healthy and B) He will struglle to hit at or near the mendoza line. His defense is stellar, but some have claimed injuries and age have lessened that ability. I haven't seen enough to judge for myself, but something to consider. .230 (even .225) can be tolerated if he is a vacuum at SS. If he hits .200 and is in and out for injuries, then I think he is expendable.

I am sure that a servicable util IF will fall out of someones camp. If Everett looks horrendous, then make Santiago a starter and get a usable util IF to spell him 1-2 times a week. I know Estaban German was just picked up. Not saying he would be a great fit, but just saying that there are useful players that will become available for cheap.

give Everett every chance to earn a spot, buthe nees to step it up a notch if he wants a job.

:clap:

I can pretty much agree with that.

theoldgoalie
03-19-2009, 04:19 PM
...It's just not like DD to admit his mistakes. And I never liked this signing either. It just seemed like we were getting a Santiago-type player with less upside (ie. Everett has been hurt a fair bit).

They signed him for depth Papi...strictly for depth. I think he will start, but you will see hm get surplanted by Santiago. I don't know why, but Santiago has just not been on Leyland's good side. He has doen nothing but produce under Leyland, but seems to get the short end of the stick everytime. My feeling is that if the Tigers are not in it by the trade deadline, that we may see Polanco get moved ( I still think Guillen or Sheffield will be moved to) and Everitt and Santiago would provide depth at 2B as well when we bring up a younger guy to handle infield duties. The Tigers are going to need to prove something this year, or we may see a lot more deals get pulled off as we re-tool for the future. There are a lot of contracts expiring and we will need to either crap or get off the pot if we want to get anything of value from some of these veterans.

JackB
03-20-2009, 07:49 AM
They signed him for depth Papi...strictly for depth. I think he will start, but you will see hm get surplanted by Santiago. I don't know why, but Santiago has just not been on Leyland's good side. He has doen nothing but produce under Leyland, but seems to get the short end of the stick everytime. My feeling is that if the Tigers are not in it by the trade deadline, that we may see Polanco get moved ( I still think Guillen or Sheffield will be moved to) and Everitt and Santiago would provide depth at 2B as well when we bring up a younger guy to handle infield duties. The Tigers are going to need to prove something this year, or we may see a lot more deals get pulled off as we re-tool for the future. There are a lot of contracts expiring and we will need to either crap or get off the pot if we want to get anything of value from some of these veterans.

I agree.We are getting old. Maggs is also getting older. He is having an awful spring. I realize its early. he is a very good hitter but the pop isn't there anymore. As you said if we aren't in it by the deadline we will need to move a few players.

Lionsforlife
03-20-2009, 02:10 PM
I don't think it's that Santiago hasn't been on Leyland's good side, I just think it's more that they know that as a bench player, Santiago can hit near .300. By starting everyday, it would drop drastically. I don't mind it if we start Everett who should hit near .230 and then spell him with a guy who as a sub hits .280. I think it's smart rather than making Santiago the full time starter and watching his offense drop drastically and then sub him with someone worse.

Sheffies Chef
03-20-2009, 09:06 PM
What lionsforlife said.

Lateralus
03-20-2009, 09:44 PM
I don't think it's that Santiago hasn't been on Leyland's good side, I just think it's more that they know that as a bench player, Santiago can hit near .300. By starting everyday, it would drop drastically. I don't mind it if we start Everett who should hit near .230 and then spell him with a guy who as a sub hits .280. I think it's smart rather than making Santiago the full time starter and watching his offense drop drastically and then sub him with someone worse.

I agree. Everett appears to be the slightly better fielder. Santiago seems to be a slightly better hitter (using small sample sizes though). Either way, meh. At least they should help the pitching staff a little bit. The Tigers should be pretty strong up the middle in the field.

stanpapi
03-23-2009, 10:50 AM
...fielder. I don't know him well enough. I've seen Everett's stats, fair enough, but I haven't seen enough off him to say for sure -- just that he doesn't appear to hit better and that he's been injured quite a bit. But I do know Santiago, and Santiago's glove is among the best in the league. Certainly, you can make a case against Santiago's bat, but if they brought in Everett because they think he has a better glove, well, I think he will be very hard pressed to prove that, especially given his health.

mark1125
03-23-2009, 04:36 PM
...fielder. I don't know him well enough. I've seen Everett's stats, fair enough, but I haven't seen enough off him to say for sure -- just that he doesn't appear to hit better and that he's been injured quite a bit. But I do know Santiago, and Santiago's glove is among the best in the league. Certainly, you can make a case against Santiago's bat, but if they brought in Everett because they think he has a better glove, well, I think he will be very hard pressed to prove that, especially given his health.


The sad thing is that I don't think that they brought him in because he was better. Unfortunately for Santiago, he has the tag of "reserve" tatooed on his forehead in Leylands mind. In an ideal situation he would be. At this point, Santiago is the better option with the glove and bat IMO. Everetts lack of durability will all but assure that Sanitago will get his AB's. If Everett flounders under .200, I say cut him and give the job to Santiago. Sign a stopgap util IF who falls loose from another camp until we see how one of the kids do in the minors.

I was not against the Everett signing because it was on year and only $1 million. I don't see it paying off and it may be time to see what else we could do.

Sheffies Chef
03-23-2009, 10:30 PM
...fielder. I don't know him well enough. I've seen Everett's stats, fair enough, but I haven't seen enough off him to say for sure -- just that he doesn't appear to hit better and that he's been injured quite a bit. But I do know Santiago, and Santiago's glove is among the best in the league. Certainly, you can make a case against Santiago's bat, but if they brought in Everett because they think he has a better glove, well, I think he will be very hard pressed to prove that, especially given his health.

Everett is the better fielder. I have no idea that stat off the top of my head, but there was a stat published (a very in-depth one at that) that concluded that Adam Everett was the best fielding SS the past 3 years or so, exempt last year (not enough chances. Injuries)

We don't know about Santiago. He seems to have a very capable glove, but I personally don't think that it would last for a full year, or even a major amount of the year (100+ games essentially).

There is a reason Ramon hasn't been given the proper chance to earn the starting SS spot. I don't know what it is. The only two people who probably know the reason is Jim Leyland and Ramon Santiago. But, I for one, trust Jim's judgement and I know for a fact that whatever he does, he has the clubs best interests at heart.

stanpapi
03-29-2009, 01:09 PM
Dude, they finished last in 2008, and they did it, in part, by playing slumping/injured/aging players who had big(ger) contracts. The way Jimbo has sent Sheff up there, no matter, for the last year and a half... They way he sent Renteria up there... The only thing I trust Jimbo to do is play the guy with the fattest contract. Like, did you even see the 2008 season? At this very point in time, I don't trust Jim to close an umbrella. Trust -- the trust is gone, man.

michigansports8
03-29-2009, 01:26 PM
:confused:
Dude, they finished last in 2008, and they did it, in part, by playing slumping/injured/aging players who had big(ger) contracts. The way Jimbo has sent Sheff up there, no matter, for the last year and a half... They way he sent Renteria up there... The only thing I trust Jimbo to do is play the guy with the fattest contract. Like, did you even see the 2008 season? At this very point in time, I don't trust Jim to close an umbrella. Trust -- the trust is gone, man. I dont know if i completely agree ii have a bit of faith in jim i completely agree about how were playing these people so much guillen for example and theyre ageing who knows when theyl break down we need young players that versatile scrappers can squeeze out a hit or a stolen base go for the extra base always give it theyre all, not old senior citizens who wont work cuz they have theyre big contract. AS for jimbo he made so many ****** moves last year bullpen..... but i do believe that the players didnt give a damn so i dont know about jim?

stanpapi
03-30-2009, 09:02 AM
...putting out for Jim, then that sort of answers the trust question. How can you trust a manager who keeps putting players out there who are tanking? And how can you trust Jimbo not to put 'em out there this year?

michigansports8
03-30-2009, 03:29 PM
...putting out for Jim, then that sort of answers the trust question. How can you trust a manager who keeps putting players out there who are tanking? And how can you trust Jimbo not to put 'em out there this year? Hmm thats true but maybe this year did him some good? we wont know until the season stan but ill say this jims on a short leash for me. but hes our manager like it or not. are you forgetting jims succes as a manager?

stanpapi
04-04-2009, 02:58 PM
Aside from the first half of 2006, The Tigers have been mediocre to bad. I mean, I don't forget about Jim's success, but he's 2.5 seasons removed from it. As such, I find it hard to just trust him. He has to earn it by doing the right thing in terms of playing guys who are hot.

Bondomania
04-04-2009, 04:38 PM
first half of 2007 they were in first place up until the AS break.. then bad luck and injuries ended their hopes of the playoffs