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View Full Version : NBA Mock Trade Deadline Round 2 Cavs-Hawks



fins08
03-06-2009, 07:40 AM
Cavs have homecourt advantage

PLEASE LOOK AT THE ROSTERS! THESE ARE NOT REAL TEAMS, SO PLEASE VOTE ON WHO WOULD WIN IN A 7 GAME SERIES!

Cavs (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8252665&postcount=6)
Hawks (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8252588&postcount=4)

Thanks, and good luck. Poll closes at 8:00 PM EST


Cavs

PG: Mo Williams/Smush Parker/Will Solomon
SG: Stephen Jackson/Delonte West/Ira Newble
SF: LeBron James/Quentin Richardson/Devean George
PF: Shawn Marion/Antonio Mcdyess/Keith Van Horn
C: Rasheed Wallace/Brendan Haywood/Desagana Diop

Hawks

PG: Jason Kidd/Luke Ridnour/Sam Cassell
SG: Joe Johnson/Michael Finley/Maurice Ager
SF: Mike Miller/Jerry Stackhouse/Ime Udoka
PF: Kevin Garnett/Malik Allen/Sean Marks
C: Zydrunas Ilgauskas/Robert Horry/Lorenzen Wright

fins08
03-06-2009, 07:42 AM
Here's my round two writeup for the Hawks:

Mo Williams vs Jason Kidd: This is a premier match up of point guards, these two players play completely different styles but both fit what their teams need. With LeBron James running the offense, Mo is mostly a scorer which he can definitely do well, but when necessary he is more then capable of running the offense. Look, I love Jason Kidd, he's one of the best point guards of all time, but time has simply passed him by. He's not the elite player he once was, Mo is just hitting his peak and is an all star right now. Kidd has become a defensive liability this year, one who Mo could destroy. While I love Kidd, right now Mo is the better player.

Stephen Jackson vs Joe Johnson: Joe Johnson is an elite player, I can't say anything to deny that, but Stephen Jackson matches up very well with him. Johnson is an elite scorer, but Jackson is an elite defender who can also put up 20-30 points when necessary. Johnson will get his points, nothing will stop that, but Jackson will make it much harder for him. Jackson's three point shooting ability (like everyone else's on this team) is amplified by LeBron because he creates so many open shots, so expect Stephen to get a good amount of open shots. JJ is the better player, but match up wise Jackson can definitely keep it close.

LeBron James vs Mike Miller: This is where we win the series. Mike Miller is a fine player, I'd love to have him on my team (and I did for some time) as a bench player, but compared to LeBron James he is a scrub. Miller can shoot and that's about it, LeBron can do anything. LeBron puts up 40 points when elite defenders like Tayshaun Prince or Shane Battier are guarding him, what would happen if Mike Miller had to guard LeBron James one on one? This series would end in a blowout. Sure they could double him, but everyone on my team is a capable shooter and LeBron is an elite passer, he would find them wide open and they'd hit their shots. LeBron is the league's best player, Mike Miller simply can't compare.

Shawn Marion vs Kevin Garnett: Similarly to the Joe Johnson-Stephen Jackson matchup, there is nothing I could say that would make KG not an all star and former MVP, however Marion does match up well against him. Shawn Marion is the league's most versatile defender, he can defend pretty much any body in the league not named Yao Ming, he'd be an excellent guy to guard KG. If KG were like Dwight Howard and he spent most of his time in the post, I'd be more worried about this match up, but KG scores a ton of points off a mid range jumpers from the top of the key, something Shawn Marion could defend because he wouldn't need brute strength. Meanwhile Shawn Marion's athleticism makes him much harder for KG to defend, KG is a defensive anchor in the post, Shawn Marion spends much of his time on the perimeter, how could KG keep up with him when he's running around the perimeter looking for shots? KG may be able to get to Marion in time to defend his shots, but that leaves the post dangerously under manned, and when LeBron James is on the other team, you can't afford to have an undermanned post. Basically, Marion will serve to draw KG away from the basket, and either KG will take the bait and guard him on the perimeter, making scoring down low much easier for King James, or KG will leave him alone to help out down low, leaving Marion to take wide open three point shots. Again KG is an elite player, but Marion does match up very well with him.

Rasheed Wallace vs Zydrunas Illgauskas: This is one of the most important match ups in the series, in fact these two players were at one point traded for each other. Both of these players at this point in there career are putting up about 15 points per game, BUT Rasheed is doing that with Allen Iverson slowly destroying his team, it's really hard for a post scorer to do well with a guy like Iverson. Now Rasheed goes from Iverson to James, one of the league's best passers who can surely get him some more points down low. Z goes from LeBron to Kidd, at this point Kidd may be a slightly better passer but it's not a huge difference. The thing that seperates these two is defense, Rasheed is an elite defender while Z is marginal at best. Rasheed is going to have a much easier time keeping Z from scoring then vice versa. Another thing to consider, what happens when LeBron drives to the basket and KG is off on the perimeter trying to contain Marion? Well there are two possible scenarios, either Mike Miller stays on him one on one and LeBron basically scores automatically, or Z goes to play help defense and Rasheed is wide open, we score either way. Some say that Rasheed isn't a "true" center, but while I doubt that would be an issue, just in case it is we can just slide Rasheed over to PF and bring in Diop or Haywood for Marion. Both of those guys are "true" centers. Rasheed wins the center match up.

That's only part one, part two is coming.

Part two: My bench vs his bench: these are two truly elite benches, but personally I like mine better. I'll give him that his point guards are better, Smush and Solomon aren't great but they'll get the job done. Our backup wings and there's is a very interesting matchup. Finley and Stackhouse are both great scorers off the bench, but they're both fairly one dimensional. I personally think that while my two wings are somewhat one dimensional they are right now better scorers, Delonte West might be the best 6th man in the league, he averages 13 points. He also has the versatility to play point guard, so if Smush and Solomon don't perform he can. Quentin Richardson is a very good scorer definitely capable of starting on some teams, Stackhoouse would have a hard time guarding him. I think in terms of style the wings are similar, but I think my two are slightly better. On to the front courts, our is better. Malik Allen is not and may never have been a good player, Antonio Mcdyess can still play with the best bench bigs in the league, he could even start when necessary. His defense would be huge off the bench and he's still a better scorer. Robert Horry is barely a rotation player any more, how would he compare to one of the 10 or 15 best centers in the league in Brendan Haywood? He'd get destroyed. Horry isn't even a center, Haywood would simply demolish him. Onto the third units, it's pretty obvious as to whose is better, Sam Cassel-Mo Ager-Ime Udoka-Sean Marks-Lorenezen Wright is a solid third unit, but I think I win every match up but Point guard. I think Ira Newble is better then Ager because of his very valuable bench shooting, Devean Geogre and Udoka are both good defenders but George is a slightly better scorer, Marks is pretty awful and Van Horn is rested and ready to be a solid contributor, and Diop is a starting capable center while Wright is only on their team because I waived him. We win the bench match up.

Final Thoughts: Here are the three main reasons why I think we'd win this series:

1. Defense wins championships: In real life the Cavs are the best defensive team in the league, we kept their defensive anchor (James) while adding three truly elite defenders in Stephen Jackson, Shawn Marion and Rasheed Wallace. Combine that with our strong defensive bench and scoring on this team would be almost impossible.

2. Versatilty: There is no style of play this team can't do. We need to go big? No problem, Mo-Bron-Marion-Rasheed-Haywood/Diop. We need to go small? Mo-West-Bron-Marion-Van Horn. I could go on and on, but there is simply no style of play this team isn't suited for.

3. We have LeBron, they don't: In a close playoff series, it usually comes down to who has the better player. Nobody they have can answer to LeBron. That's why MJ beat great teams like the Jazz and Lakers, that's why Kobe and Shaw beat the Blazers, Spurs and Kings, it's why Bird and Magic controlled the 80's, and it's why we'll win this series.
Cavs writeup

astrosmaniac
03-06-2009, 08:43 AM
im sorry but that line that james puts 40 points on elite defenders really shouldnt have been in there. Lebron has had 6 40 point games and those were CHI, CHI, MIL, MIL, NYK, IND (w/o granger). None of those teams have exatcly elite defenders. heck against battier and artest he scored only 21 points on 21 FGA. you make it sounds like he trounces elite defenders routinely for 40 points when he hasnt done it once this season...

phlp_bj
03-06-2009, 09:09 AM
we have a great matchup:

Kidd=Williams(each has there own qualities)
JJ>Jackson
Miller<James
KG>Marion
Z=Sheeed

hotpotato1092
03-06-2009, 02:51 PM
Z does no = Sheed, they both put up similar offensive stats but Z has LeBron to get him the ball whereas Rasheed has selfish Iverson taking up all the shots, also Z is the 3rd option in Cleveland but Rasheed is fifth in Detroit behind Iverson, Stuckey, Rip and Tayshaun. Not to mention that Sheed is a much better defender, Z definitely does not = Rasheed.

mrblisterdundee
03-06-2009, 02:55 PM
Why do you people waste time on this fantasy crap? If you're truly interested in the NBA, you should know that's there's plenty of real life information to analyze.

hotpotato1092
03-06-2009, 03:19 PM
Why do you people waste time on this fantasy crap? If you're truly interested in the NBA, you should know that's there's plenty of real life information to analyze.

Sounds like someone has some sand in his vagina :D But in all seriousness, lay off. Everyone on this site would love to be a GM and it probably isn't happening for any of us, so we do this because we love basketball and we want to see what it's like being a GM. Seriously if you don't like this then don't vote and just ignore it.

hotpotato1092
03-06-2009, 03:20 PM
Wow I expected it to be closer then this, I think the Hawks are a great team and while I think I should win I also think the Hawks are close.

phlp_bj
03-06-2009, 03:27 PM
ya i guess people dont take this seriously like we do

KobeIs
03-06-2009, 03:32 PM
man i was so tempted to say the hawk just because the cavs had smush parker

mitch91
03-06-2009, 03:33 PM
i take these seriously and took time over my vote though i went with the cavs. for me lebron barely puts them over the top. even writing this im still unsure weather i made the right choice. though the reason i decided not to go with the hawks is that i compared them with the modern celtics and both have kg and ray ray and jj are argueably equal (though i think jj is abit better but not by alot) though they have no paul peirce.

i probably haven't expalined this well but if you get me you will understand.

i took time with my decision though think it should be a lot tighter than it is

hotpotato1092
03-06-2009, 03:36 PM
man i was so tempted to say the hawk just because the cavs had smush parker

What's with all the Smush hating, he averaged 11 points, 3 assists and 3 rebounds on a playoff team, he'd be a fine backup playing 10 minutes per game.

Sportfan
03-06-2009, 05:24 PM
i actully like the hawks here

superkegger
03-06-2009, 05:27 PM
damn, I don't know which way to go.

On one hand, the cavs don't have an answer for LeBron, Even with a sound team defensive effort, which I would doubt, even with KG, the rest of the team isn't exactly the greatest collection of individual defenders. Plus the bench is pretty weak. Sorry, just not a fan of Malik Allen, smush parker, Robert Horry (especially as a C, and he retired for a reason, hes ****ing old).

On the other, Kg would abuse marion. And if they did somehow find a way to make LeBron a shooter, and he wasn't hitting, you're then putting the ball in the hands of trigger happy stephen jackson, and Mr. I'm going to chuck 3's all day cause that's easier than posting up Rasheed Wallace. And we've see that Joe Johnson can light you up.

I guess in the end, I just really don't see the Hawks with an answer for LeBron. Their wings in general are either not good defensively, too old, or a comibantion of both, and that bodes disaster for them in this playoff series.

hotpotato1092
03-06-2009, 05:37 PM
damn, I don't know which way to go.

On one hand, the cavs don't have an answer for LeBron, Even with a sound team defensive effort, which I would doubt, even with KG, the rest of the team isn't exactly the greatest collection of individual defenders. Plus the bench is pretty weak. Sorry, just not a fan of Malik Allen, smush parker, Robert Horry (especially as a C, and he retired for a reason, hes ****ing old).

On the other, Kg would abuse marion. And if they did somehow find a way to make LeBron a shooter, and he wasn't hitting, you're then putting the ball in the hands of trigger happy stephen jackson, and Mr. I'm going to chuck 3's all day cause that's easier than posting up Rasheed Wallace. And we've see that Joe Johnson can light you up.

I guess in the end, I just really don't see the Hawks with an answer for LeBron. Their wings in general are either not good defensively, too old, or a comibantion of both, and that bodes disaster for them in this playoff series.

Smush Parker's actually on my team, but I get their bench could be seen as weak by some, I personally think it's pretty good. I feel bad for Phlp right now, his team is too good to be getting blown out in round two, I personally think his Hawks would beat the West's #1 seed (the Lakers). It's really a shame that he put that much work into it and made a team that good and it's gonna lose round two, don't get me wrong my team deserves to win but the Hawk's deserved to go farther then this.

Catfish1314
03-06-2009, 05:45 PM
Why do you people waste time on this fantasy crap? If you're truly interested in the NBA, you should know that's there's plenty of real life information to analyze.

Did you actually post this in both threads? Really?

If it weren't for LeBron James, this series would be hard to watch because these are two really good defensive teams. Like the Mavs in their series, the Hawks have no answer for LeBron. JJ is a solid defender but if you burden him with the assignment of LeBron, he won't be nearly as effective offensively. With LeBron able to operate with even more ease than usual, the Cavs offense will be too fluid for the pretty good Hawks D to limit.

And there are two things wrong with the Cavs writeup. No. 1, Stephen Jackson is not an elite defender. He's not even good. No. 2, Shaq and Kobe didn't beat the Kings. They contributed, but their role players and our free throw shooting and knack for choking determined that series. I know because I watched the entire thing. Twice. I like pain.

KnicksorBust
03-06-2009, 06:11 PM
I hate the Cavs write-up but I wasn't going to use it against them. They are the better team.

phlp_bj
03-06-2009, 06:29 PM
good job on the win hp. u had a great team. cant wait for next year

fins08
03-06-2009, 06:33 PM
100% honestly, I meant to vote Cavs, if it affected the outcome I woulda changed it, nice job Hawks btw

KnicksorBust
03-06-2009, 07:25 PM
good job on the win hp. u had a great team. cant wait for next year

You did a great job too. :clap: Kidd-JJ-KG is a very nice trio that complement each other.

hotpotato1092
03-06-2009, 07:34 PM
Did you actually post this in both threads? Really?

If it weren't for LeBron James, this series would be hard to watch because these are two really good defensive teams. Like the Mavs in their series, the Hawks have no answer for LeBron. JJ is a solid defender but if you burden him with the assignment of LeBron, he won't be nearly as effective offensively. With LeBron able to operate with even more ease than usual, the Cavs offense will be too fluid for the pretty good Hawks D to limit.

And there are two things wrong with the Cavs writeup. No. 1, Stephen Jackson is not an elite defender. He's not even good. No. 2, Shaq and Kobe didn't beat the Kings. They contributed, but their role players and our free throw shooting and knack for choking determined that series. I know because I watched the entire thing. Twice. I like pain.

Ok that's just wrong, Stephen Jackson is at worst an above average defender, Conor even admitted that and he HATES him and he's a warriors fan. He's not an Artest level defender by any means, but he's a very good defender.

hotpotato1092
03-06-2009, 07:35 PM
good job on the win hp. u had a great team. cant wait for next year

Good job with your team, you had the most improved team and if you ever want to work with me on a mock I'd love to, you're a very good GM.

hotpotato1092
03-06-2009, 07:45 PM
I hate the Cavs write-up but I wasn't going to use it against them. They are the better team.

May I ask what was wrong with it?

astrosmaniac
03-06-2009, 07:49 PM
LeBron puts up 40 points when elite defenders like Tayshaun Prince or Shane Battier are guarding him, what would happen if Mike Miller had to guard LeBron James one on one?
this, and ill tell you why like i did in the first response to this thread

im sorry but that line that james puts 40 points on elite defenders really shouldnt have been in there. Lebron has had 6 40 point games and those were CHI, CHI, MIL, MIL, NYK, IND (w/o granger). None of those teams have exatcly elite defenders. heck against battier and artest he scored only 21 points on 21 FGA. you make it sounds like he trounces elite defenders routinely for 40 points when he hasnt done it once this season...

phlp_bj
03-06-2009, 07:54 PM
Good job with your team, you had the most improved team and if you ever want to work with me on a mock I'd love to, you're a very good GM.

thanks man. ur not too shabby urself. u really improved this year as well.

Catfish1314
03-06-2009, 07:58 PM
Ok that's just wrong, Stephen Jackson is at worst an above average defender, Conor even admitted that and he HATES him and he's a warriors fan. He's not an Artest level defender by any means, but he's a very good defender.

Stephen Jackson played great, great defense against Dirk and the Mavs in 2007. His defense since has been nothing special. He can be good at times and he can be very bad at times. I see enough of him to know.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8283632&highlight=Jackson#post8283632

Sheed, Marion, and LeBron, now there's defense. But not Jackson.

hotpotato1092
03-06-2009, 09:24 PM
Stephen Jackson played great, great defense against Dirk and the Mavs in 2007. His defense since has been nothing special. He can be good at times and he can be very bad at times. I see enough of him to know.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8283632&highlight=Jackson#post8283632

Sheed, Marion, and LeBron, now there's defense. But not Jackson.

Just throwing this out there, maybe his great defense against Dirk was the fact that he had a lot more to play for? He was playing great because he wanted the upset really badly and was thus trying harder, now he has a chance to win a title so he would play at that level of effort and his defense would improve. Either way with Sheed, Marion and LeBron he only has to not suck.

dre1990
03-06-2009, 09:35 PM
Hawks in 7. Jackson aint no SG

dawgsfan_45
03-06-2009, 09:49 PM
Holy hell the Cavs are deep. I love the JJ-KG combo but I think having Lebron with 4 VERY good players around him is going to be too much for the Hawks.

phlp_bj
03-06-2009, 09:49 PM
i think JJ can handle lebron somewhat. we also have stackhouse/miller to take cracks at lebron.

dawgsfan_45
03-06-2009, 09:51 PM
i think JJ can handle lebron somewhat. we also have stackhouse/miller to take cracks at lebron.

I agree with the first part but I dont think either Stack or Miller are very good defenders.

hotpotato1092
03-06-2009, 09:51 PM
i think JJ can handle lebron somewhat. we also have stackhouse/miller to take cracks at lebron.

The problem with JJ defending LeBron is what Catfish said, he'd be too exhausted from handling LeBron to be huge factor offensively, he's only one person he can't do everything, that's what happened to Kobe in the finals, he had to defend Pierce and it drained him so he was less effective on the offensive end.

phlp_bj
03-06-2009, 09:52 PM
we have kidd to find others. kg can score, midrange shots and stuff. so can z. miller can drain 3's all day

Catfish1314
03-06-2009, 09:54 PM
Just throwing this out there, maybe his great defense against Dirk was the fact that he had a lot more to play for? He was playing great because he wanted the upset really badly and was thus trying harder, now he has a chance to win a title so he would play at that level of effort and his defense would improve. Either way with Sheed, Marion and LeBron he only has to not suck.

That's true but he'd been in the playoffs before with the Spurs and the Pacers and his D didn't stick out. Hell, his defense the following round in 07 wasn't even that good.

But you're right, Sheed is a top 5 post defender when he wants to be and Marion and LeBron are damn good too.

superkegger
03-06-2009, 10:23 PM
Smush Parker's actually on my team, but I get their bench could be seen as weak by some, I personally think it's pretty good. I feel bad for Phlp right now, his team is too good to be getting blown out in round two, I personally think his Hawks would beat the West's #1 seed (the Lakers). It's really a shame that he put that much work into it and made a team that good and it's gonna lose round two, don't get me wrong my team deserves to win but the Hawk's deserved to go farther then this.

Hmm, well, either way, the hawks bench is weak. Ridnour is fine, but their backup wings are old, slow, but still serviceable. But the real kicker is the backup bigs, just way to bad for me to put them through.

VCaintdead17
03-06-2009, 10:37 PM
I voted for the hawks to be nice :up:

EX-TREME
03-06-2009, 10:42 PM
i voted for the hawks.

greg_ory_2005
03-06-2009, 10:57 PM
I like the Cavs. Good defense, and a nice bench.

astrosmaniac
03-06-2009, 11:03 PM
i love how you have ignored my comment twice HP, is it cause you know im right :cool:

phlp_bj
03-07-2009, 12:09 AM
any more votes lol?

pippsux
03-07-2009, 12:22 AM
Cavs

jetsfan28
03-07-2009, 12:23 AM
Looking at the clubhouses, Cavs were much better before the Z trade IMO, but they still win this

hotpotato1092
03-07-2009, 12:59 AM
im sorry but that line that james puts 40 points on elite defenders really shouldnt have been in there. Lebron has had 6 40 point games and those were CHI, CHI, MIL, MIL, NYK, IND (w/o granger). None of those teams have exatcly elite defenders. heck against battier and artest he scored only 21 points on 21 FGA. you make it sounds like he trounces elite defenders routinely for 40 points when he hasnt done it once this season...

Remember game 5 of the '07 conference finals when LeBron had Tayshaun Prince (an elite defender) and basically the entire pistons team (an elite defensive team) trying to stop him but couldn't as he went off for 49 points including 29 of the Cavs last 30? Remember last year in game 7 vs the Celtics where he put up 45 against a team some hailed as the greatest defensive team in recent memory? I'm too lazy to go hunting through stats, but those are two significant examples of LeBron destroying elite defense when it counts. There astro, I responded, happy?

hotpotato1092
03-07-2009, 01:00 AM
Looking at the clubhouses, Cavs were much better before the Z trade IMO, but they still win this

I wanted defense, that's what I got. I was looking at the big picture, I didn't feel comfortable having Z guarding Dwight Howard (who at the time was on the Magic) and Pau Gasol (if I make the finals) so I made a deal that basically got me that defense while giving up my 7th man (Mike Miller). I liked it.

jetsfan28
03-07-2009, 01:28 AM
I wanted defense, that's what I got. I was looking at the big picture, I didn't feel comfortable having Z guarding Dwight Howard (who at the time was on the Magic) and Pau Gasol (if I make the finals) so I made a deal that basically got me that defense while giving up my 7th man (Mike Miller). I liked it.

You lose a lot more offensively than you gain defensively, especially considering how valuable 3 point shooters are on a team with LeBron