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View Full Version : Most under-rated facet of basketball.



Wilson
03-05-2009, 10:30 AM
What do you guys think is the most under-rated facet of basketball?

It can be absolutely anything, such as the ability to take charges, footwork, good ball movement etc. Try to avoid just naming certain players as under-rated, but talk about one specific thing someone does.

One example is Shaq's ability to pass from the post, and his footwork. People think of him being just a big, strong body who muscles to the basket. Well he actually does have some good footwork, and is very good at passing out of double teams.

Another thing I can think of right now is using the backboard on jumpshots. I don't know why more people don't use it. Tim Duncan is the obvious example as far as that's concerned.

What more can you guys think of?

fredv
03-05-2009, 10:42 AM
Chuck Hayes offense. Even though the guy doesn't score to much and doesn't fill the bucket, he executes very very well the offense and is a key factor to the Rockets for that when he is in. He open's up holes and creates for teammates to get to the hole or simply shoot.

lakers4sho
03-05-2009, 10:48 AM
Footwork. Few players have it, but it's one of the greatest assets a player can have.

Just ask Timmy D.

DrDEADalready
03-05-2009, 11:43 AM
Foot work is a good. I think also is the ability to use both hands. Left and right hands. Boozer is pretty good with his left hand.

mrblisterdundee
03-05-2009, 11:50 AM
One of the most underrated facets of basketball is the ability to control the pace of a game. Brandon Roy is one example of a player that does this very well. The Blazers have one of the top offenses, and also play at one of the slowest paces in the NBA. The Celtics are another good example of controlling pace. I don't know how many fast teams have been crushed by a grudgingly slow pace.

Wilson
03-05-2009, 11:57 AM
One of the most underrated facets of basketball is the ability to control the pace of a game. Brandon Roy is one example of a player that does this very well. The Blazers have one of the top offenses, and also play at one of the slowest paces in the NBA. The Celtics are another good example of controlling pace. I don't know how many fast teams have been crushed by a grudgingly slow pace.

That's a good one...

ggg
03-05-2009, 02:37 PM
Cutting, outletpass, moving without the ball, boxing out , bigman running the break.. But the most would be both bigman's ability to pass, lamaer and pau are a good example of that.

GoatMilk
03-05-2009, 02:41 PM
2nd Chance points/O boards
we talk about it sometimes, but these are VITAL to teams success.
the guys like Carl Landry and Paul Milsap for example are very good offensive rebounders. Hustle guys like Chris Andersen are really really beneficial for the great teams.

Ballah0liC1
03-05-2009, 02:54 PM
FLOPPING is a good. I think also is the ability to use FLOPPERS. Left and right hands. KIRILENKO is pretty good FLOPPER.

:clap:

IndyRealist
03-05-2009, 03:09 PM
Great thread.

Moving without the ball. Players that do it get easy buckets ALL THE TIME.

Bank shots. Tim Duncan, nuff said.

Taking charges. I realize floppers have made this a very sore topic, but being able to take a charge (getting outside the restricted zone, anticipating where your opponent is going, setting your feet, not doing anything stupid with your hands) is much more difficult than people seem to think.

Tap out rebounds. No one tracks them, no one gets credit, but the "volleyball rebound" is often more effective than the traditional one, because you knock the ball to where there are no opposing players fighting for it.

Deflections. The Pacers are the only team I know of that tracks deflections (getting your hand on the ball on defense, whether altering a shot or getting a steal or throwing off the opposing player's shooting rhythm).

The crossover dribble. It's very 90's, but it amazes me how many players, PG's in particular, don't have any sort of crossover dribble they use in-game. One summer of practice and they'll have a move that can break down a defender by itself half of the time.

GREATNESS ONE
03-05-2009, 03:12 PM
work ethic, and communication.

DrDEADalready
03-05-2009, 03:15 PM
:clap:


Oh you've contracted the clap? sad. maybe you should use protection next time. before you become a Rockets fan.

Ballah0liC1
03-05-2009, 03:22 PM
Oh you've contracted the clap? sad. maybe you should use protection next time. before you become a Rockets fan.

wow what a bad joke :puke:

ambisme56
03-05-2009, 03:39 PM
First would have to be help defense. The great teams always have this.
Help Defense = Team Defense

Second, I would have to go with passing and ball movement. Finding the open man, leads to an open shot, which is usually the best shot the team can take.

fire2last
03-05-2009, 03:40 PM
Following your shot...I can't think of anyone off hand in the NBA who excels at this. But this is one of those habits taught at the elementary level.

Big Zo
03-05-2009, 03:41 PM
Farting in order to clear a path to the basket is pretty underrated.

ambisme56
03-05-2009, 03:46 PM
Following your shot...I can't think of anyone off hand in the NBA who excels at this. But this is one of those habits taught at the elementary level.

Following your shot isn't really the best thing a player should do unless your around 15ft from the basket. Yes, it is taught at the elementary level, but if players were to do this from more than 15ft you can hurt your team because if you don't get the remember which most times you don't there will be an easy outlet pass and a great chance at fast break points. Following your shot is only good if the team has good rotation and someone always makes sure they get back on D.

flora6
03-05-2009, 03:55 PM
Hamilton is the best at moving without the ball without a doubt...rasheed wallace is probably better at shooting left handed 3's than some right handed shooters

Joshtd1
03-05-2009, 03:59 PM
Boxing someone out. Dont know how angry I get when I see a team give up a crucial rebound with the game going down to the wire because they dont box their man out.

Wilson
03-05-2009, 04:00 PM
Farting in order to clear a path to the basket is pretty underrated.

Finally, the answer I was looking for! :p


Hamilton is the best at moving without the ball without a doubt... rasheed wallace is probably better at shooting left handed 3's than some right handed shooters

Agreed, it's a thing of beauty in my opinion. That's sort of the way I've tried to play when I've played organized basketball.

The ability to draw fouls on other players is a pretty good one as well. Kobe Bryant is pretty good at getting people in the air and creating contact. Reggie Miller was a master at drawing fouls.

fire2last
03-05-2009, 04:01 PM
Following your shot isn't really the best thing a player should do unless your around 15ft from the basket. Yes, it is taught at the elementary level, but if players were to do this from more than 15ft you can hurt your team because if you don't get the remember which most times you don't there will be an easy outlet pass and a great chance at fast break points. Following your shot is only good if the team has good rotation and someone always makes sure they get back on D.

That's because player's don't box out (another underrated aspect of the game). They all want to run down the court for an easy bucket hoping that their big man will rebound the ball.

Sly Guy
03-05-2009, 04:03 PM
flopping. Getting those B/S calls for an extra possession. Way to go Manu!

IndyRealist
03-05-2009, 04:07 PM
Finally, the answer I was looking for! :p



Agreed, it's a thing of beauty in my opinion. That's sort of the way I've tried to play when I've played organized basketball.

The ability to draw fouls on other players is a pretty good one as well. Kobe Bryant is pretty good at getting people in the air and creating contact. Reggie Miller was a master at drawing fouls.

They've since made what he used to do an offensive foul :smoking:

flora6
03-05-2009, 04:07 PM
Finally, the answer I was looking for! :p



Agreed, it's a thing of beauty in my opinion. That's sort of the way I've tried to play when I've played organized basketball.

The ability to draw fouls on other players is a pretty good one as well. Kobe Bryant is pretty good at getting people in the air and creating contact. Reggie Miller was a master at drawing fouls.


Reggie Miller always stuck his legs out to draw fouls...hate it

DerekRE_3
03-05-2009, 04:19 PM
Boxing someone out. Dont know how angry I get when I see a team give up a crucial rebound with the game going down to the wire because they dont box their man out.

So true...especially if your a Kings fan...I don't remember the last time we had a good rebounding team.

Sidious
03-05-2009, 04:20 PM
Defense as a whole seems to be taken for granted.

Hellcrooner
03-05-2009, 04:22 PM
off the ball moves, offense positioning and defense positioning, help D, Cutting, screens.

Since no stat values them they go unoticed.

Wilson
03-05-2009, 04:24 PM
They've since made what he used to do an offensive foul :smoking:

They should bring that back, and take away the hand check rule...:cool:

broncsnugzbrave
03-05-2009, 04:29 PM
Being able to flop so the officials call stupid fouls seems to be the way the NBA is going Shaq the other night against Howard was ridiculous.

BigEric
03-05-2009, 04:36 PM
The 2002 Sacramento Kings style.

DerekRE_3
03-05-2009, 04:50 PM
1) Moving without the ball
2) Boxing Out
3) Mid Range game
4) The ability to set good screens

Vidball
03-05-2009, 05:02 PM
Not the biggest one, but not mentioned yet: ability to give a good entry pass to the post even when a man is fronted (one of the biggest reasons the Lakers lost in the Finals in '04).

wwwhat
03-05-2009, 05:16 PM
Tracking the ball isn't a good idea because it knocks of the balance of your shot unless you're shooting a floater. I'd probably say the ability to constantly establish sturdy screens. For big men it's essential but a lot won't do it. So many bigs now just slip their screen hoping to get hit for a nice dunk.

EX-TREME
03-05-2009, 05:19 PM
boxing out.

jrodmesche
03-05-2009, 05:35 PM
court awareness

DLeeicious
03-05-2009, 05:44 PM
Hustle. Players giving it 100% every game never will have an ineffective night. They may not fill up the stat sheet but they will have an impact on the game. Nocioni comes to mind along with guys like Nash, Kidd, Hamilton, etc.

Giaps
03-05-2009, 06:53 PM
Team Chemistry!!!

^^You can win more games with less talent when you have good chemistry. You can lose more games with more talent when you have bad chemistry.

Big Game Son
03-05-2009, 08:03 PM
Defence - Deflections
Offense - Footwork/Body Control

philab
03-05-2009, 11:41 PM
A great left hand. Whether a left-handed player or an ambidextrous player, a great left hand gives a player a noticeable advantage. I know it's the NBA and most guys have decent left hands (so you think defenders wouldn't be fooled), but watch a lefty on the drive and you notice it immediately. Ginobli, Delonte West, Boozer, etc.

Big men without the ball. A big man who moves constantly and moves effectively can be a huge advantage. Space, lanes, and open shots can be created all over the place if a big man knows how to get his body in the right place -- little picks here and there and drawing defenders away that no one ever notices.

Hustle rebounding. The [few] guys in this league that believe that every rebound could be theirs. Relentlessness -- even if there's two guys and half the court in the way, that rebound can be had. Rodman did this, Varejao and others do it some now. It's annoying as hell to the other team and sometimes brings five or more rebounds a game. Gives the defense time to get back also.

Point guards trusting their teammates. Paul and Nash are my favorite two examples of this. I usually refer to it as making the easy pass, mostly on the break. Some times PGs try too hard to force it to the rim on the break, making a difficult pass or driving into bigger players (even multiple bigger players). The great PGs -- and the ones that rack up assists -- are the ones who dish it to the shooter for the easy mid-range jumper or the open three.

Soft blockers. The big man who's more worried about possession than a SC highlight. Just about every block that's ever landed in the stands could have been secured. LeBron goes for the HUGE block very often, but all it results in is an inbounds play and a highlight. Get the block, tap it to yourself, and make the outlet pass. Oden is very good at this, but he never plays.

All I've got for now.

BenWin
03-06-2009, 12:32 AM
I would definitely say:

Offensive Rebounds--2nd Chance Points
Lack of Turnovers
Hitting your Free Throws (FT are totally taken for granted)

I would also say showing a good effort on defense. This year's warriors proves, score 108 ppg all you want, but if you don't play D you will still lose

JMKnick33
03-06-2009, 01:05 AM
Great thread.

In no particular order:

1. Offensive rebounds- extra possessions means more opportunities
2. Help defense- defense wins games
3. Moving without the ball- very underrated aspect. this opens holes in the defense more than most people realize. it also gets the defender worn down, of course.
4. This is one that nobody has mentioned yet. SETTING PICKS. do you think the phrase, "Stockton to Malone" would be so popular without the Mailman not only delivering, but setting rock solid picks? Exactly.
5. Taking the charge- this can also fall under help defense.
6. Chemistry- Pistons didn't have a bonafide superstar. But they had great team chemistry. Same with the Spurs, since they've been together forever.
7. The bounce pass/outlet pass- a great bounce pass/outlet pass usually leads to easy buckets.

Again, great thread.

hotpotato1092
03-06-2009, 01:09 AM
intimidation

Chronz
03-06-2009, 01:12 AM
Limiting your turnovers when accounting for so much of your teams offense. Most underrated aspect of MJ's game. In general though for most players its how good they are at setting screens and outlet passing.

SteveNash
03-06-2009, 01:23 AM
Basically everything that doesn't show up in the box score.

Lakersfan2483
03-06-2009, 01:41 AM
Footwork. Few players have it, but it's one of the greatest assets a player can have.

Just ask Timmy D.

Agreed, many players don't have good footwork like Duncan, Kobe and Paul Pierce. Good footwork is invaluable to a great player's success on the basketball court. Michael Jordan had tremendous footwork and paid dividends for him on the court.

Lakersfan2483
03-06-2009, 01:43 AM
1) Moving without the ball
2) Boxing Out
3) Mid Range game
4) The ability to set good screens

Agreed, all very under-rated facets of basketball, but all of the things you mentioned are extremely important.

baller1532
03-06-2009, 01:46 AM
bank shots. not just for big men like tim duncan, but gaurds too. like D wade is great at them, but outside of him not many people are.

Wilson
03-06-2009, 02:13 AM
Soft blockers. The big man who's more worried about possession than a SC highlight. Just about every block that's ever landed in the stands could have been secured. LeBron goes for the HUGE block very often, but all it results in is an inbounds play and a highlight. Get the block, tap it to yourself, and make the outlet pass. Oden is very good at this, but he never plays.


That was a really good post, but this was the point that stood out to me the most. People should look at blocks more like rebounds. A fan would be furious if they saw a guy intentionally throw a defensive rebound out of bounds, it doesn't make sense to give up a possesion and possibly a basket for a highlight...

IndyRealist
03-06-2009, 02:19 AM
Basically everything that doesn't show up in the box score.

:clap:

To paraphrase the Shane Battier article from a week ago, Morey (?) said that whoever came up with the box score should be shot. Those are the stats that are easily tracked, not necessarily the ones that reveal the most about the game. The casual fan (and the average poster on PSD) relies on the box score entirely too much. Battier has some of the worst box scores of any starter in the NBA, but he wins games, and every team he's on wins more often than not. So back to the subject, the most underrated facet of basketball? Pretty much everything Shane Battier does.

KB24PG16
03-06-2009, 02:20 AM
making layups ask how hard it is to derek fisher

JayW_1023
03-06-2009, 09:48 AM
A great left hand. Whether a left-handed player or an ambidextrous player, a great left hand gives a player a noticeable advantage. I know it's the NBA and most guys have decent left hands (so you think defenders wouldn't be fooled), but watch a lefty on the drive and you notice it immediately. Ginobli, Delonte West, Boozer, etc.

Big men without the ball. A big man who moves constantly and moves effectively can be a huge advantage. Space, lanes, and open shots can be created all over the place if a big man knows how to get his body in the right place -- little picks here and there and drawing defenders away that no one ever notices.

Hustle rebounding. The [few] guys in this league that believe that every rebound could be theirs. Relentlessness -- even if there's two guys and half the court in the way, that rebound can be had. Rodman did this, Varejao and others do it some now. It's annoying as hell to the other team and sometimes brings five or more rebounds a game. Gives the defense time to get back also.

Point guards trusting their teammates. Paul and Nash are my favorite two examples of this. I usually refer to it as making the easy pass, mostly on the break. Some times PGs try too hard to force it to the rim on the break, making a difficult pass or driving into bigger players (even multiple bigger players). The great PGs -- and the ones that rack up assists -- are the ones who dish it to the shooter for the easy mid-range jumper or the open three.

Soft blockers. The big man who's more worried about possession than a SC highlight. Just about every block that's ever landed in the stands could have been secured. LeBron goes for the HUGE block very often, but all it results in is an inbounds play and a highlight. Get the block, tap it to yourself, and make the outlet pass. Oden is very good at this, but he never plays.

All I've got for now.

Many excellent posts in this thread...highlighted by this one. Well worth the read.

As opposed to shotblocking...challenging shots is just as important. If you are too eager shotblock alot (ie. Camby), you tend to get reckless and commit fouls. Being able to establish timely position on the weakside is basically half the work of good weakside help defense...holding your feet and not buying headfakes.

Screens are so important into breaking down the defense...especially if your big can shoot. Gasol is a great screener all over the floor, because he can both shoot off the pick and roll and have the mobility to rotate towards the hoop. The best screener in the league however is Tim Duncan, because he always keeps in the back of his mind where is teammates like to go.

Boxing out is important...rebouding is mostly about holding position knowing where you need to be...using your lower body to keep balance and hold your ground against physical defenders. What makes Dwight Howard such a great rebounder is not just his physique...but using his body right...use your butt strength to hold off offensive rebounders and shield the ball well once it clanks the rim. His atheticism makes even easier because even if his timing is off he can still grab te board.

Pressure defense the way Bowen plays it is awesome to watch. That guy at 37 is still quick enough to keep up with most wing scorers. What Bowen does better than any wing defender in the league is using his lower body strength to disrupt his mans momentum...and keeping him off balance. His aggressive defense makes it easier for help defenders to make timely rotations and help out. Even Bowen gets beaten off the dribble, he always makes sure his opponent is out of his comfort zone during dribble penetration.

I love good post defense as well..Karl malone was a weak help defender...but a great post defender. He guarded Duncan better than almost anyone in the 2004 Western Finals. One of his tricks was to use his strength to push Duncan out of his established post position...and whenever Timmy outquicked him he stepped back...thus causing Duncan to tumble off balance and lose control of the basketball. I've seen Nene , K-Mart and Ben Wallace apply this tactic frequently as well.

Good on the ball and off te ball D is more important than stealing or blocking...steals per game and blocks per game are arguably RESULTS of good defense...not indicators of ACTUAL good defense.

Hellcrooner
03-06-2009, 11:22 AM
:clap:

To paraphrase the Shane Battier article from a week ago, Morey (?) said that whoever came up with the box score should be shot. Those are the stats that are easily tracked, not necessarily the ones that reveal the most about the game. The casual fan (and the average poster on PSD) relies on the box score entirely too much. Battier has some of the worst box scores of any starter in the NBA, but he wins games, and every team he's on wins more often than not. So back to the subject, the most underrated facet of basketball? Pretty much everything Shane Battier does.

I guess thats why Americas Favourite sports are Nfl and Baseball wich are FILLED of stats then Nba and Nhl wich still have some and thats why america hates Soccer since there are NO stats ( appart from goals) that are any relevant, only game.

showtym24
03-06-2009, 11:39 AM
Footwork. Few players have it, but it's one of the greatest assets a player can have.

Just ask Timmy D.

And Kobe B

BoognishMN
03-06-2009, 11:47 AM
The Jump shot, no one seems to care to have one anymore

chrislu31
03-06-2009, 11:52 AM
crab dribble :)

Wilson
03-06-2009, 12:36 PM
crab dribble :)

:laugh2:

Nexus
03-07-2009, 06:40 PM
Drafting.

It's so insanely important to have a low salary impact guy you picked up in the draft so that you can pay for the older players. It gives the good GMs the room they need to make their championship team. Name a team that's won without good drafting.

b_rad23
03-07-2009, 07:35 PM
Taking charges is huge. Big momentum shift and an extra possession.

bostncelts34
03-07-2009, 09:55 PM
the best "soft-blocker" ever IMO was Bill Russell. He was a master at it.

montazingmvp
03-08-2009, 01:44 AM
first off, help defense is a very overrated part of the game. most good help defenders are not that great of defenders. for example, marcus camby, he puts up big numbers defensively, but he's not a good defender. if someone is backing him down, or if its one on one, the offensive player is going to score on him. sure he can get the occasional help d block, but he can't actually contain his own man...

here's an obvious one that i don't think has even been mentioned.

following defensive rotations. the spurs do it best (maybe the celtics). its simple yet so many teams and players don't know how to do it. it is essentially the key to being a good team..

and another is hustle. every team needs a player to come off the bench and hustle for every ball like his life depended on it...

WSU Tony
03-08-2009, 01:50 AM
In such a star driven league the assist is becoming more and more underrated imo.

Nirvanaskurdt
03-08-2009, 02:05 AM
rebounding.. offensively and defensively.

ggg
03-08-2009, 03:45 AM
first off, help defense is a very overrated part of the game. most good help defenders are not that great of defenders. for example, marcus camby, he puts up big numbers defensively, but he's not a good defender. if someone is backing him down, or if its one on one, the offensive player is going to score on him. sure he can get the occasional help d block, but he can't actually contain his own man...

here's an obvious one that i don't think has even been mentioned.

following defensive rotations. the spurs do it best (maybe the celtics). its simple yet so many teams and players don't know how to do it. it is essentially the key to being a good team..

and another is hustle. every team needs a player to come off the bench and hustle for every ball like his life depended on it...


help defense is part of the defensive rotation. it just so happens that there are these players like birdmen who are so fond of having a block party that they leave their man too often or havent flourished their own post defense game. The detroit pistons in 07 had barely help defense thats why lebron raped them by attacking, attacking and attacking.

ggg
03-08-2009, 03:48 AM
:clap:

To paraphrase the Shane Battier article from a week ago, Morey (?) said that whoever came up with the box score should be shot. Those are the stats that are easily tracked, not necessarily the ones that reveal the most about the game. The casual fan (and the average poster on PSD) relies on the box score entirely too much. Battier has some of the worst box scores of any starter in the NBA, but he wins games, and every team he's on wins more often than not. So back to the subject, the most underrated facet of basketball? Pretty much everything Shane Battier does.


shane battier is a great team player/ secondary defender/ defender but I swear, the way he be doing his face blocking, he's gonna get someone's eye sooner or later.

nickcamp15
03-08-2009, 03:55 AM
just like every other sport, its all about defense