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View Full Version : Is Vince Carter A Top 10 Shooting Guard?



mrblisterdundee
02-26-2009, 10:22 PM
I was having my daily argument with a cook where I work. He tried to tell me that Vince Carter is washed up and isn't in the top 10, in terms of shooting guards. I explained that he's averaging 20.5 points, 5.1 rebounds, and 4.8 assists per game. That didn't convince him. I then asked him if he could even name 10 shooting guards that are better than Vince Carter. He couldn't do it, but he still wasn't convinced. For my part, he knows very little about the NBA if he doesn't think "VC" is a top 10 shooting guard. Do you think he is in the top 10?

JaysFan87
02-26-2009, 10:28 PM
Probably....but doesnt mean i would take him

I would take Kobe, Wade, Roy, Johnson, Crafword, Allen, Igudala,

koreancabbage
02-26-2009, 10:38 PM
he's slowly fading out of the top 10, but as of right now, he's legit top 10

still1ballin
02-26-2009, 10:42 PM
No

theuuord
02-26-2009, 10:45 PM
Yes.

(side note: i'm willing to officially debate anyone on the topic of whether or not Vince Carter is a Hall of Famer. Bring it on. :D)

HoLLyWooD PLK
02-26-2009, 10:47 PM
i dont see why not, id take VC over Crawford,RIP,Martin anytime

I Stole Home
02-26-2009, 10:47 PM
No 10 better would be:
Kobe
D-Wade
Allen
Iggy
Joe Johnson
Roy
Kevin Martin
AI
Rip Hamilton
Arenas

All are better than VC

Hes top 15 not top 10

BullsNumber1Fan
02-26-2009, 10:49 PM
No eleven better would be
Kobe
D-Wade
Allen
Iggy
Joe Johnson
Roy
Kevin Martin
AI
Rip Hamilton
Redd
Arenas

All are better than VC

Hes top 15 not top 10
Ben Gordon = a 2 inch smaller Michael Redd, so you can put BG on that list to then.

NYK All the Way
02-26-2009, 10:51 PM
No 10 better would be:
Kobe
D-Wade
Allen
Iggy
Joe Johnson
Roy
Kevin Martin
AI
Rip Hamilton
Arenas

All are better than VC

Hes top 15 not top 10

I don't consider arenas or AI to be legit 2 guards and I would take VC over michael redd any day

ModusOperandi
02-26-2009, 10:52 PM
Yes.

(side note: i'm willing to officially debate anyone on the topic of whether or not Vince Carter is a Hall of Famer. Bring it on. :D)

A HoFer? Are you serious?

Why? :eyebrow:

theuuord
02-26-2009, 10:55 PM
A HoFer? Are you serious?

Why? :eyebrow:

lol. because he has had a Hall-of-Fame worthy career.

(and I won't even talk about his dunking!)

(well, maybe a little bit. but it'll be like. the last thing i'd mention. and inconsequential.)

BranWingss
02-26-2009, 10:55 PM
No 10 better would be:
Kobe
D-Wade
Allen
Iggy
Joe Johnson
Roy
Kevin Martin
AI
Rip Hamilton
Arenas

All are better than VC

Hes top 15 not top 10


Ok there buddy. Arenas is a PG. Ai mostly plays PG too. Vince is better then Rip,Martin,Iggy is SF, talk about not knowing alot about b-ball

VCaintdead17
02-26-2009, 10:58 PM
Yes he is. He is more of a complete player than most of the people listed above. He is one of those game-changing type players still

Lakersfan2483
02-26-2009, 11:06 PM
Top ten shooting guards

1. Kobe
2. D. Wade
3. B. Roy
4. J. Johnson
5. M. Ginobli
6. Vince Carter
7. M. Redd
8. R. Allen
9. R. Hamilton
10. K. Martin

Korman12
02-26-2009, 11:13 PM
Iguodala doesn't play the SG, he's the Sixers starting SF

1: Kobe
2: Wade
3: Roy
4: Johnson
5: Allen
6: Ginobli
7: Martin
8: Redd
9: Hamilton
10: Gordon/Carter

Phitin' Phan
02-26-2009, 11:14 PM
Ok there buddy. Arenas is a PG. Ai mostly plays PG too. Vince is better then Rip,Martin,Iggy is SF, talk about not knowing alot about b-ball

Eh kinda. Without Brand he has been playing SF but other than that he has been playing SG. So with the normal starters he is the starting SG, but now he is a SF.

BigEric
02-26-2009, 11:18 PM
Yeah he still is.

BTownTeamsRKing
02-26-2009, 11:45 PM
lol

VC went from unbeleivably overated to underated.

if hes top 10, hes b/w 8 and 12 depending on personal opinion. i say yes he is top 10.

i still think he can throw 30 pts on the scoreboard and his athletisism is still there.

carter15
02-27-2009, 12:01 AM
No 10 better would be:
Kobe
D-Wade
Allen
Iggy
Joe Johnson
Roy
Kevin Martin
AI
Rip Hamilton
Arenas

All are better than VC

Hes top 15 not top 10

view below


Ok there buddy. Arenas is a PG. Ai mostly plays PG too. Vince is better then Rip,Martin,Iggy is SF, talk about not knowing alot about b-ball

thank you


Top ten shooting guards

1. Kobe
2. D. Wade
3. B. Roy
4. J. Johnson
5. M. Ginobli
6. Vince Carter
7. R. Hamilton
8. R. Allen
9. M. Redd
10. K. Martin

now thats a decent list...NO WAY vince isnt top 10...id put allen at 7 though...and consider vince over ginobli and johnson...cuz his best..is better then there best....obviously u guys will look at my name and think im extremely biased..and yes i am a bit..but cmon how is he not top 10...he avgs. 20/5/5...how many SGs can claim they have better stats then that.

Hustla23
02-27-2009, 12:03 AM
He's definitely Top 10.

But he is also fading.

Arac
02-27-2009, 12:07 AM
1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Brandon Roy
4. Joe Johnson
5. Ray Allen
6. Vince Carter
7. Manu Ginobili (bothered by injuries all season long)
8. Rip Hamilton
9. Michael Redd (bothered by injuries)
10. Kevin Martin/Ben Gordon

Ballah0liC1
02-27-2009, 12:45 AM
1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Brandon Roy
4. Joe Johnson
5. Ray Allen
6. Vince Carter
7. Manu Ginobili (bothered by injuries all season long)
8. Rip Hamilton
9. Michael Redd (bothered by injuries)
10. Kevin Martin/Ben Gordon

i like it but if your gonna put redd tmac must be on there

greene2304
02-27-2009, 12:49 AM
I thought San Antonio would have been a good fit for Carter, but i understand why the Spurs declined for what NJ was seeking. Anyway, as of today(2/27/09) - Top 10 SG:

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Dwayne Wade
3. Brandon Roy
4. Manu Ginobili
5. Joe Johnson
6. Kevin Martin
7. Vince Carter
8. Allen Iverson
9. Ray Allen
10. Ben Gordon/OJ Mayo -- The last 3 weeks you can put Eric Gordon up there as well.

Jacob K.
02-27-2009, 12:53 AM
yes most definatly he is

DODGERS&LAKERS
02-27-2009, 12:57 AM
Yes he is.

Kobe
Wade
Roy
Manu
Johnson
Carter
Allen
Hamilton
Redd
Martin

JordansBulls
02-27-2009, 01:06 AM
No 10 better would be:
Kobe
D-Wade
Allen
Iggy
Joe Johnson
Roy
Kevin Martin
AI
Rip Hamilton
Arenas

All are better than VC

Hes top 15 not top 10

Hell no they aren't. None of those in bold are better.

BTownTeamsRKing
02-27-2009, 01:08 AM
Hell no they aren't. None of those in bold are better.

eh Ray Allen is as good. Ray is still putting up good numbers playing a team game.

JIDsanity
02-27-2009, 01:20 AM
Obviously

JIDsanity
02-27-2009, 01:21 AM
Real Basketball fans speak the truth

theuuord
02-27-2009, 01:26 AM
I would honestly rank Carter 4th, behind only Wade, Kobe, and Roy. But those three are way ahead of everyone else, and between 4-7ish could be any mix of Carter/Ginobili/Allen/Joe Johnson and you could have a good list.

carter15
02-27-2009, 01:54 AM
I would honestly rank Carter 4th, behind only Wade, Kobe, and Roy. But those three are way ahead of everyone else, and between 4-7ish could be any mix of Carter/Ginobili/Allen/Joe Johnson and you could have a good list.

agree 100%

last year i wuda put allen a notch below but hes played great this year and moved up my ranks.

canzano55
02-27-2009, 02:16 AM
Kobe
Wade
Johnson
Martin
Durant
Roy
Ginobili
Lewis
Ellis
Ray Allen

Rudy Gay, Michael Redd and Arenas get honorable mentions.

Carter is definitely a top 15 - 20 shooting guard in this league but not top 10.

JaysFan87
02-27-2009, 02:21 AM
Yes.

(side note: i'm willing to officially debate anyone on the topic of whether or not Vince Carter is a Hall of Famer. Bring it on. :D)

what team awards has he ever won??
what personal awards has he ever one?
Has he ever made it to the finals?
DOes he have more than one playoff series win?
Does he have a MVP?
Does he have a scoring title?
At any point in his career could u argue that he was the best player in the league?

If ur wonderign what the answer to those questions are, its NO. A big fat no. I cant possible think what the argument is for him as a HOFamer???

theuuord
02-27-2009, 02:24 AM
what team awards has he ever won??
what personal awards has he ever one?
Has he ever made it to the finals?
DOes he have more than one playoff series win?
Does he have a MVP?
Does he have a scoring title?
At any point in his career could u argue that he was the best player in the league?

If ur wonderign what the answer to those questions are, its NO. A big fat no. I cant possible think what the argument is for him as a HOFamer???

I looked at your questions, which are all very flawed when it comes to judging players (especially for Hall criteria).
Then I looked at your name.


Toronto fans, you need to move on. It's just kinda sad at this point.

JaysFan87
02-27-2009, 02:30 AM
I looked at your questions, which are all very flawed when it comes to judging players (especially for Hall criteria).
Then I looked at your name.


Toronto fans, you need to move on. It's just kinda sad at this point.

Flawed how???

Has he won a title??? NO
Has he won an MVP?? NO
Has he won a scoring title??? NO
At any point in his career has he been considered the best player within the league??? NO
Has he ever made it to the finals??? NO


If all those answers are no then why does he deserve to be a HOFamer??? What has he done to be in teh Hall with the greats???

theuuord
02-27-2009, 02:40 AM
Flawed how???

Has he won a title??? NO
Has he won an MVP?? NO
Has he won a scoring title??? NO
At any point in his career has he been considered the best player within the league??? NO
Has he ever made it to the finals??? NO


If all those answers are no then why does he deserve to be a HOFamer??? What has he done to be in teh Hall with the greats???

Robert Horry has won six titles. He is nowhere near a Hall of Famer.
Patrick Ewing never sniffed an MVP. You should read his plaque sometime.
There are like 100 examples of players who never won scoring titles (or MVP's, for that matter) and are in the Hall of Fame.
Same for the "best player in the league" argument, which makes like no sense, since that's only one player per year, and usually it's the same player year to year (like Jordan or something).

As for the Finals argument, name me one top-quality big man Carter has ever played with who was quality while they were on the team together. (So not Chris Bosh).
Just one.
One's all I'm lookin' for.

Considering that only Michael Jordan's Bulls have won a championship without a top-quality big man (and Jordan is hardly the "standard" for the Hall of Fame), it's pretty common knowledge that to get to the Finals you need one of those.

So name one.
Please?





Oh wait.


You can't.

superkegger
02-27-2009, 02:55 AM
He's clearly still top 10. He's had somewhat of a renaissance this year. His best years are clearly behind him, but as things stands now, he's still a very good player and one of the better players in the NBA.

superkegger
02-27-2009, 03:05 AM
I'd say Carter is borderline Hall of Fame. He's had some good all around years, but his career taken as a whole doesn't overly impress. I think he'll probably get in, because of his all around game (ability to score/board/and assist, which I believe most people actually underestimate or underate about Vince), but also because of the flash he provided.

And I think that because it helps on two levels. One is the obvious in that people know him, love him and want to watch those endless highlight reels. But also because it got him into like 9 all star games, a few of which he most definetly did not deserve to be in. That is to say, part of what the Hall looks at in terms of voting is a lot of different criteria, but playing in as many ASG's as he did, will definetly help.

Fury
02-27-2009, 03:13 AM
No 10 better would be:
Kobe
D-Wade
Allen
Iggy
Joe Johnson
Roy
Kevin Martin
AI
Rip Hamilton
Arenas

All are better than VC

Hes top 15 not top 10

wow ur not very bright are you Arenas is not better than VC if he cant even get on the floor witout crying about another injury Rip is good but isnt better than VC hes a great complimentary player wit a good lineup Ray allen is nasty but hes a role player and a very one diminsional player SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT Iggy is still getting better saying hes better than VC is getting a little ahead of urself and right now i think him and joe johnson are pretty close in ranking but ill take VC cuz hes more of a team player and a great leader

bostncelts34
02-27-2009, 03:18 AM
Well..here it goes..

1.Kobe
2.Wade
3.Roy,
4,5,6,7 are all interchangeable. Being..Ginobli,Allen,Johnson and CARTER.
8.RIP
9.Redd
10.Martin/Mayo

EX-TREME
02-27-2009, 06:33 AM
yes. he still got game

carter15
02-27-2009, 08:16 AM
Kobe
Wade
Johnson
Martin
Durant
Roy
Ginobili
Lewis
Ellis
Ray Allen

Rudy Gay, Michael Redd and Arenas get honorable mentions.

Carter is definitely a top 15 - 20 shooting guard in this league but not top 10.

:rolleyes: half the guys u named aren't even shooting guards...u sure u watch basketball?

carter15
02-27-2009, 08:19 AM
what team awards has he ever won??what personal awards has he ever one?
Has he ever made it to the finals?
DOes he have more than one playoff series win?
Does he have a MVP?
Does he have a scoring title?
At any point in his career could u argue that he was the best player in the league?

If ur wonderign what the answer to those questions are, its NO. A big fat no. I cant possible think what the argument is for him as a HOFamer???

well if u were wondering u are completely wrong lol

2 of those answers r 100% yes and r proven with facts....rookie of year + numberous playoff series wins

he won olympic gold..which is a team award:S...i dont no what other team awards there are besides championship

and in 00-01 when he avg. over 27 points..im sure u cud argue he was the best player in the league.

JaysFan87
02-27-2009, 11:27 AM
Robert Horry has won six titles. He is nowhere near a Hall of Famer.
Patrick Ewing never sniffed an MVP. You should read his plaque sometime.
There are like 100 examples of players who never won scoring titles (or MVP's, for that matter) and are in the Hall of Fame.
Same for the "best player in the league" argument, which makes like no sense, since that's only one player per year, and usually it's the same player year to year (like Jordan or something).

As for the Finals argument, name me one top-quality big man Carter has ever played with who was quality while they were on the team together. (So not Chris Bosh).
Just one.
One's all I'm lookin' for.

Considering that only Michael Jordan's Bulls have won a championship without a top-quality big man (and Jordan is hardly the "standard" for the Hall of Fame), it's pretty common knowledge that to get to the Finals you need one of those.

So name one.
Please?





Oh wait.


You can't.

Horry i agree has a small chance to make the HOF, i didnt say that he will get it. Sure he has a title but he has nothing else of what i mentioned. Just because u have one of those things doesnt mean that you will get in.

ROTFL that u mention Patrick Ewing's career in the same sentence As Carter's.
Patrick Ewing is one of the greatest players ever in the game. He was one of the 50 Greatest Players of All Time

For a 6 year stretch (1989-95) he was a top 5 player in points and was considered the best center in that stretch. He also finished in the top 5 of MVP voting 6 different times while wince highest finish was 11th. Ewing was on the first on second team all-star on 7 different occasion and was a 1st team all-star in 89-90. While wince has one 2nd team all-star.
And the cherry on top?

Ewing played in the Jordon error yet still made it to the finals twice.....
He also played in 139 playoff games winning 15 rounds in the playoffs.....
Carter has what 3 playoff playoff series victories?? ANd not even a sniff at the conference finals.

As for your argument that he never played with a quality big man. He would have played with a quality big man if he didnt cry himself out of Toronto. But thats not even the point. You can't reword mediocrity becuase he didnt have a quality team. Pro sports is a results based industry and Carter has little to no results to make him even a consideration for the HOF.

As for Ewing..
Did he ever win a Title??? NO
Did he ever make it to the finals??? YES
Did he ever win an MVP??? NO
Was he at any point in his career considered the best player in the league or at his position??? YES
Was he named to the top 50 players of All-time??? YES

If u are seriously attempting to compare these two players careers.....i dont know what to say to you

JJ81
02-27-2009, 11:29 AM
Yes, I think so.

JaysFan87
02-27-2009, 11:33 AM
well if u were wondering u are completely wrong lol

2 of those answers r 100% yes and r proven with facts....rookie of year + numberous playoff series wins

he won olympic gold..which is a team award:S...i dont no what other team awards there are besides championship

and in 00-01 when he avg. over 27 points..im sure u cud argue he was the best player in the league.

Rookie of the year???
Yea my bad i forgot, that absolutely gets him in. While we put him in for winning the ROY, lets also inducted Steve Frances, Mike Miller and Damon Stoudemire while we are at it since they won the ROY too.

Numourous playoff wins equals = 3 playoff round victories???

In 2000-01 he was not the best player, he wasnt even the best SG, a guy named kobe was

theuuord
02-27-2009, 12:54 PM
Horry i agree has a small chance to make the HOF, i didnt say that he will get it. Sure he has a title but he has nothing else of what i mentioned. Just because u have one of those things doesnt mean that you will get in.

ROTFL that u mention Patrick Ewing's career in the same sentence As Carter's.
Patrick Ewing is one of the greatest players ever in the game. He was one of the 50 Greatest Players of All Time

For a 6 year stretch (1989-95) he was a top 5 player in points and was considered the best center in that stretch. He also finished in the top 5 of MVP voting 6 different times while wince highest finish was 11th. Ewing was on the first on second team all-star on 7 different occasion and was a 1st team all-star in 89-90. While wince has one 2nd team all-star.
And the cherry on top?

Ewing played in the Jordon error yet still made it to the finals twice.....
He also played in 139 playoff games winning 15 rounds in the playoffs.....
Carter has what 3 playoff playoff series victories?? ANd not even a sniff at the conference finals.

As for your argument that he never played with a quality big man. He would have played with a quality big man if he didnt cry himself out of Toronto. But thats not even the point. You can't reword mediocrity becuase he didnt have a quality team. Pro sports is a results based industry and Carter has little to no results to make him even a consideration for the HOF.

As for Ewing..
Did he ever win a Title??? NO
Did he ever make it to the finals??? YES
Did he ever win an MVP??? NO
Was he at any point in his career considered the best player in the league or at his position??? YES
Was he named to the top 50 players of All-time??? YES

If u are seriously attempting to compare these two players careers.....i dont know what to say to you

Again man.

Your Vince hate is realllllllllllly showing.
You're not being very rational.

You're not making a realistic argument because half of your argument is based upon the fact that Toronto had one of the worst offices of basketball operations in basketball history during Carter's tenure.
And the other half is to compare him to Patrick Ewing - which I wasn't really doing so much as proving how inane your original qualifiers are.






I was more interested in an "official"-type debate, not an exclamation-points war with an obsessive fan bleeding bias into every word.

So I'm done with you.

Anyone want to do that? (the official-type debate, anyway.)

JordansBulls
02-27-2009, 12:59 PM
Kobe
Wade
Johnson
Martin
Durant
Roy
Ginobili
Lewis
Ellis
Ray Allen

Rudy Gay, Michael Redd and Arenas get honorable mentions.

Carter is definitely a top 15 - 20 shooting guard in this league but not top 10.

Isn't Durant playing SF now? Also how the hell is Lewis a SG? And I hope you don't believe Kevin Martin and Monte Ellis are better than VC??

BullsNumber1Fan
02-27-2009, 01:34 PM
SG's I would take over VC:

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Brandon Roy
4. Joe Johnson
5. Manu Ginobili
6. Rudy Gay (He played SG all last year with Mike Miller playing SF)
7. Allen Iverson (He plays SG, there is a reason why Denver wanted a PG and Stucky plays PG)
8. Ray Allen/Vince Carter

JIDsanity
02-27-2009, 01:45 PM
Always looking for a reason to hate on VC. NJ gets no love

carter15
02-27-2009, 02:17 PM
Rookie of the year???
Yea my bad i forgot, that absolutely gets him in. While we put him in for winning the ROY, lets also inducted Steve Frances, Mike Miller and Damon Stoudemire while we are at it since they won the ROY too.

Numourous playoff wins equals = 3 playoff round victories???

In 2000-01 he was not the best player, he wasnt even the best SG, a guy named kobe was

i didnt say ROY wud get him in....just u said he won no individual awards...when he did.

and who was better in 2001 was debatable....kobe avg. 1 more point and slightly better in reb., ast/turnovers....but he also missed 7 more games AND he was playing with SHAQ ....i think that opened up some space for him...vince was playing with who?...alvin williams and antonio davis....so it was probly a bit harder for vince to do what he did.

JaysFan87
02-27-2009, 09:28 PM
Again man.

Your Vince hate is realllllllllllly showing.
You're not being very rational.

You're not making a realistic argument because half of your argument is based upon the fact that Toronto had one of the worst offices of basketball operations in basketball history during Carter's tenure.
And the other half is to compare him to Patrick Ewing - which I wasn't really doing so much as proving how inane your original qualifiers are.






I was more interested in an "official"-type debate, not an exclamation-points war with an obsessive fan bleeding bias into every word.

So I'm done with you.

Anyone want to do that? (the official-type debate, anyway.)

LOL...its good ur taking the easy way out...you dont have an argument in the first place which is fine. But dont make it sound like YOUR done with me, WHEN clearly im done with you, BECAUSE, you have yet to tell me why he deserves to be in the Hall?

And no my qualifiers aren't insane they are reasonable, and i never said that you need to have all of them nor did i say u were a shoe in if u did. I siad that those types of achievements are needed in order to get consideration. Again the Hall has many many great players that did good things for the game, Vince is not one of them now and unless he magically changes is form now when he is 32 then all the power to him but right no he is not close for consideration.
Like i said.....
For any portion(one year doesnt count) of his career was he considered the best player in the league or at his position. Prolly not. he has made one second team all-star and one third team all-star in 10 years

Did he consistently produce at the same high level for a portion of his career? No, his numbers fluctuated throughout his career in Toronto and in NJ.

Has he achieved success in the playoffs? He hasnt gotten past the second round.?

I dont knwo but for me that doesnt sound like a HOF career. Yea a pretty good careeer that has seen him do some good stuff. But a HOF career...not in my books and prolly not in the writers books either


On a completely different side note, the Basketball operations department was fine until vince started to chirp about who he wanted and when he wanted it. And when he didnt get the coach he wanted he began to moan about everything. So no it wasnt that the ops department was not running right, it was that vince wanted to run the ops department.

itsmoeyadig
02-27-2009, 09:50 PM
he's slowly fading out of the top 10, but as of right now, he's legit top 10

O really hes fading away? how is that so? Explain to me how he is having his best overall season, usually he is a scorer but this year he knew coming in he would have to distrubite the ball to his young ones such as ryan anderson, brook lopez, Yi, Devin harris, Vince is helping them shine, people forget Vince Carter was a dominate scorer, and still can be when he wants he picks and chooses his spots, he can EASILY put 30 a night and be a selfish player, But instead he leads the team and helps the youth program in jersey. He is worth every penny the nets are paying him and I'm oh so glad they didn't trade him. Leaders play through pain and make a lot of sacrafices, hes had a bad hand bad hamstrings, sore ankle but he keeps that tag of "CAPTAIN" and plays through the pain because his team needs him. So don't give me that bull and say he is fading away because right now ur seeing Vince Carter Part 2 where hes a playmaker rather then a scorer. And it's because they need him to be a playmaker so he adjusted and is doing one heck of a job.

bostncelts34
02-27-2009, 09:53 PM
Kobe
Wade
Johnson
Martin
Durant
Roy
Ginobili
Lewis
Ellis
Ray Allen

Rudy Gay, Michael Redd and Arenas get honorable mentions.

Carter is definitely a top 15 - 20 shooting guard in this league but not top 10.

umm...Durant is a SF, Lewis is a PF or SF, ellis is a PG i beleive lol

NYMetros
02-27-2009, 09:54 PM
Top ten shooting guards

1. Kobe
2. D. Wade
3. B. Roy
4. J. Johnson
5. M. Ginobli
6. Vince Carter
7. M. Redd
8. R. Allen
9. R. Hamilton
10. K. Martin

I agree with this list for the most part, although I think Roy is a little too high and Ray should switch spots with Redd.

ShaunRiching9
02-27-2009, 10:16 PM
Kobe
Wade
Roy
Johnson
Ginobli
Allen
Redd
Martin
Carter

IMO

Drtino
02-27-2009, 10:30 PM
Definitely a top 10.... he's playing as if he was probably 4 years younger...
He might disappear every now and then, but he does all the little things by filling up the other game stats if his shooting percentage is not there.

Definitely better than Hamilton, michael redd, ellis...among a couple of others that come up on some people's list.

Now he might not be mentioned as a hall of famer now... but no one can say that he'll eventually not get it... he has done enough merits to get there, the only thing he might be missing is probably getting to the finals with the possibility of winning a championship ring.... That'll make it unquestionable to many.

codes238
02-27-2009, 10:37 PM
i think he is, he's 8th best right now, but might not be by next year... wade, kobe, brandon roy, joe johnson, ray allen, kevin martin and ginobli are all better than him right now for sure...

BranWingss
02-27-2009, 11:07 PM
Man hes like top 5 still

codes238
02-27-2009, 11:18 PM
Man hes like top 5 still

how!? who is he better than wade, kobe, roy, joe johnson or ray allen!?

Afridi786
02-27-2009, 11:21 PM
He's easily better than Ray Allen.

codes238
02-27-2009, 11:22 PM
He's easily better than Ray Allen.

i think pretty much anyone who watches basketball and is older than 12 would disagree with you...

theuuord
02-27-2009, 11:32 PM
i think pretty much anyone who watches basketball and is older than 12 would disagree with you...

I watch and/or play basketball every single day of my life and I'm nineteen. And I 100% agree with him.

Afridi786
02-27-2009, 11:36 PM
I'm 20....just watching the two play, you can tell which one is better, just because Ray is on the C's doesn't make him better.

codes238
02-27-2009, 11:37 PM
I watch and/or play basketball every single day of my life and I'm nineteen. And I 100% agree with him.

so youre telling me if you were betting your life on a 5-on-5 NBA basketball game you would rather have vince carter than ray allen as your shooting guard!? unless you are mentally ill i seriously cant fathom that at all...

codes238
02-27-2009, 11:39 PM
I'm 20....just watching the two play, you can tell which one is better, just because Ray is on the C's doesn't make him better.

youre right, scoring 19 points per game on 50% shooting from the field, 41% from 3 and 95% from the free throw line while playing great defense doesnt mean anything! i would actually bet my life that if you replaced ray-ray with wince the celtics wouldnt win the championship last year and wouldnt be nearly as good this year...

Afridi786
02-28-2009, 12:04 AM
Ray has always been an average defender, don't let the team defense distort your view on an individual's defense....and shooting percentages don't mean squat, Ray is on a team with 2 possible hall of famers in their prime...VC just has Harris....Ray is only better at shooting 3's and ft %.

carter15
02-28-2009, 12:12 AM
so youre telling me if you were betting your life on a 5-on-5 NBA basketball game you would rather have vince carter than ray allen as your shooting guard!? unless you are mentally ill i seriously cant fathom that at all...

i think a lot of ppl wud..unlike allen vince can still drop 40 on any given night and is one of the clutchest players in the NBA (dont even debate that..there was a thread with all the stats recently)...vince is also much much better at creating for his team.

if i need FT's tho id take ray allen.

Kakaroach
02-28-2009, 12:15 AM
Ya Vinsanity is a Top 10 SG. Not a Top 5, but I'll give him Top 10 easy.

codes238
02-28-2009, 12:25 AM
i think a lot of ppl wud..unlike allen vince can still drop 40 on any given night and is one of the clutchest players in the NBA (dont even debate that..there was a thread with all the stats recently)...vince is also much much better at creating for his team.

if i need FT's tho id take ray allen.

thats great but just for the record wince hasnt scored 40 points in a game once this year... he also didnt do it last year... so to say that he can do it on any given night seems kind of weird since he hasnt done it in 2 years... IRONICALLY RAY-RAY HAS HAD A 40 POINT GAME MORE RECENTLY THAN CARTER on January 23, 2007 with 44 points over denver... furthermore the end of game stats are very misleading, theres a reason why devin harris always has the ball in his hands at the end of games now where as ray-ray often gets his number called even playing with pierce and KG... ray-ray scores 2 points per game less than wince these days but he's still very capable of putting up big scoring nights and leading his team to a win with garnett as he did tonight with 30 points on 11-16 shooting from the field!

dodgernation
02-28-2009, 12:33 AM
Kobe
D-Wade
Allen
Iggy
Joe Johnson
Roy
Granger
Pierce
Carter
Gordon

yeah he's top 10 but probably not top 8

dodgernation
02-28-2009, 12:34 AM
He's easily better than Ray Allen.

no way. ray allen would average 24-25 on just about any other team. not to mention he is the best shooter in the NBA and is clutch

S.J.Basketball
02-28-2009, 12:42 AM
I was having my daily argument with a cook where I work. He tried to tell me that Vince Carter is washed up and isn't in the top 10, in terms of shooting guards. I explained that he's averaging 20.5 points, 5.1 rebounds, and 4.8 assists per game. That didn't convince him. I then asked him if he could even name 10 shooting guards that are better than Vince Carter. He couldn't do it, but he still wasn't convinced. For my part, he knows very little about the NBA if he doesn't think "VC" is a top 10 shooting guard. Do you think he is in the top 10?

Your cook already lost the argument. He makes a claim and doesn;t back it up with anything except with that's just how he feels. Great. The evidence doesn't support how you FEEL. He couldn't even name 9 other shooting guards. Argument is OVER! You win.

theuuord
02-28-2009, 12:49 AM
so youre telling me if you were betting your life on a 5-on-5 NBA basketball game you would rather have vince carter than ray allen as your shooting guard!? unless you are mentally ill i seriously cant fathom that at all...

lol. it has nothing to do with me being mentally ill and everything to do with the quote under your username that comes up every time you post.

get over it, man. the hate runs so deep in you guys.

theuuord
02-28-2009, 12:53 AM
and as a Raptors fan, I'm very surprised you'd say this:


theres a reason why devin harris always has the ball in his hands at the end of games

When I'm sure you remember this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvPIlAL8xQw

Drtino
02-28-2009, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by codes238
youre right, scoring 19 points per game on 50% shooting from the field, 41% from 3 and 95% from the free throw line while playing great defense doesnt mean anything! i would actually bet my life that if you replaced ray-ray with wince the celtics wouldnt win the championship last year and wouldnt be nearly as good this year...

I have my respects for Allen, but if Carter would end up playing with Kevin and Pierce, he could basically be putting those numbers and probably better... aside from the fact that he will end up winning his first ring as well.

Carter averages 44% from the field - Allen averages 49%
Carter averages 39% from 3 point - Allen averages 41%
Carter averages 81% from FT - Allen averages 95%...
Both players are good...

But on career points per game, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks... Carter has the edge...even on this year (parenthesis)
24 points (21 points this year) against 21 points (18 points this year).
5.5 (5.1) rebounds against 4.4 (3.3) rebounds,
4.3 (4.8) assists against 3.8 (2.8) assists,
1.2 (1.0) steals against 1.2 (0.9) steals,
0.7 (0.4) blocks against 0.2 (0.1) blocks...

Aside for his shooting percentage potential Ray Allen has the advantage, but as far as who makes the team better... if there's no KG and Pierce on the picture- Carter will have the advantage.

carter15
02-28-2009, 02:05 AM
thats great but just for the record wince hasnt scored 40 points in a game once this year... he also didnt do it last year... so to say that he can do it on any given night seems kind of weird since he hasnt done it in 2 years... IRONICALLY RAY-RAY HAS HAD A 40 POINT GAME MORE RECENTLY THAN CARTER on January 23, 2007 with 44 points over denver... furthermore the end of game stats are very misleading, theres a reason why devin harris always has the ball in his hands at the end of games now where as ray-ray often gets his number called even playing with pierce and KG... ray-ray scores 2 points per game less than wince these days but he's still very capable of putting up big scoring nights and leading his team to a win with garnett as he did tonight with 30 points on 11-16 shooting from the field!

hmm vince had 46 on april 7th 2007, 40 on march 24th 2007, 40 feb. 25th 2007, 40 jan 27th 2007.
EDIT: he also had 46 on feb. 21st 2007

IRONICALLY VINCE HAS *5 40 POINT GAMES SINCE ALLEN HAD HIS LAST.

do some research next time please

and this year vince scored 38 or 39 on three seperate occasions so its not 40..ok ill give u that...but ill take 39 then.

Mile High Champ
02-28-2009, 02:14 AM
If he is a top 10 sg... he is around that 8-10 mark now..

ntat
02-28-2009, 02:27 AM
No 10 better would be:
Kobe
D-Wade
Allen
Iggy
Joe Johnson
Roy
Kevin Martin
AI
Rip Hamilton
Arenas

All are better than VC

Hes top 15 not top 10
well u can officially put Vc in the top ten cause Arenas is a PG

ntat
02-28-2009, 02:34 AM
youre right, scoring 19 points per game on 50% shooting from the field, 41% from 3 and 95% from the free throw line while playing great defense doesnt mean anything! i would actually bet my life that if you replaced ray-ray with wince the celtics wouldnt win the championship last year and wouldnt be nearly as good this year...

Ray ALlen has turned into purely a shooter that plays off the ball now. he is not what he was, and is not better thanvince. I like ray, but im pretty sure if u look at his career stats he does not shoot 50% from the floor or 95% FT's. 95% would be a record.
and this season is scoring 18 a game,not 19. when u exagerate every stat a little bit, then it adds up to a big difference...

QuaLiThADoN
02-28-2009, 02:40 AM
He's definitely Top 10.

But he is also fading.

Vc is fading... I believe he hurts the nets... but he is still top 10..... he has put up kobe numbers his whole career ?? how can he not be

Drtino
02-28-2009, 08:21 AM
He has his up and downs... but he's still filling up the other stats if he has an off night.

SaimoNETS
02-28-2009, 05:26 PM
Robert Horry has won six titles. He is nowhere near a Hall of Famer.
Patrick Ewing never sniffed an MVP. You should read his plaque sometime.
There are like 100 examples of players who never won scoring titles (or MVP's, for that matter) and are in the Hall of Fame.
Same for the "best player in the league" argument, which makes like no sense, since that's only one player per year, and usually it's the same player year to year (like Jordan or something).

As for the Finals argument, name me one top-quality big man Carter has ever played with who was quality while they were on the team together. (So not Chris Bosh).
Just one.
One's all I'm lookin' for.

Considering that only Michael Jordan's Bulls have won a championship without a top-quality big man (and Jordan is hardly the "standard" for the Hall of Fame), it's pretty common knowledge that to get to the Finals you need one of those.

So name one.
Please?





Oh wait.


You can't.

:clap:

Nets fan 93
02-28-2009, 06:12 PM
No 10 better would be:
Kobe
D-Wade
Allen
Iggy
Joe Johnson
Roy
Kevin Martin
AI
Rip Hamilton
Arenas

All are better than VC

Hes top 15 not top 10
LOL at Arenas on the list, and Iggy is playing SF
Top Ten
Kobe
Wade
Joe Johnson
Brandon Roy
Manu
VC
Allen
AI
Rip
IDK maybe Gordon?


AI- 18ppg and 7 asts?
VC-20-5-5

VC is also better than Allen and Rip... cmon...

DrDEADalready
02-28-2009, 06:25 PM
I think he's still top ten. but at the very bottom of the list and with young talent he's slowly fading off.

JIDsanity
02-28-2009, 06:33 PM
I smell Haterade

rhymeratic
02-28-2009, 06:48 PM
My turn to speak.

Vince Carter is still top 10. Yeah 8-10 range is about right. The issue with Carter is that he has a lot more "off-nights" scoring wise than he did at his peak.

I'd still ride out with Vince, he gets a much undeserved bad rap. The dude is human.

rapswin98
02-28-2009, 06:59 PM
No 10 better would be:
Kobe
D-Wade
Allen
Iggy
Joe Johnson
Roy
Kevin Martin
AI
Rip Hamilton
Arenas

All are better than VC

Hes top 15 not top 10iggy, martin and rip better than vc, :crazy:

rapswin98
02-28-2009, 07:01 PM
vc is stiil in the top ten, he slipping cause he jus doesnt try as much as before

chicagowhitesox
02-28-2009, 08:11 PM
i'd say so, yeah. but he's right on the edge.

b_rad23
03-01-2009, 12:10 AM
Easily.